Batman Returns COMMENTARY

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:37):
And welcome back to Always Hold On to Birds of Prey.
And like most podcasts, we're starting out with just bonus
episodes to begin with. So here we are. I'm your
forever host Matt Truex, and with me is co host
and filmmaker Chris os McIntosh hey, hey hey, and co
host and producer Zach Moore. Things change, so let me like,

(01:00):
we should start the movie, but we're doing. We thought
it'd be fun to like, well, where did Birds of
Prey start? Yes, in the Earth two comics, Yes, in
like Out of Nowhere basically, and later Calor Grads Brain.
But also it's got a lot to do with the
Burton Schumacher, you know, early quadrilogy Batman movies from the

(01:20):
eighties and nineties and specifically Batman Returns. And I look
forward to dissecting how much of this movie actually connects
to Birds of Prey.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, if if you believe the early promos or Birds
of Praise is the direct sequel, I mean I remember,
I mean they used clips of this film.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Let's let's get into it. Let's start the movie. If
anybody wants to watch along on your on your streamings
or your Blu rays or whatever, please do. Otherwise, if
you know the movie like us, you're probably fine. But
I'll do it. Count us down, three two one press play,
and then we'll be off and running into the snowy
streets of Gotham City. All right, three two one play?

(02:03):
And there is something about Batman and snowy Christmas times
that just feels right.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
This movie came out in June, by the way, I
know it.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
Right, originally with the originally planned for a Christmas nineteen
ninety one release.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Though oh they got pushed. I didn't realize that. Yeah,
but let's talk about what you were talking about here,
since none of this connect to Birds of Prey though
it looks incredible. It was either at a I think

(02:42):
it was a comic con or a comic con, but
they like previewed a sizzle reel for an audience and
then that eventually you know, aired on the WB or
went online. But the sizzle reel for Birds of Prey
was using footage not just of like the car and
Gotham sitting and stuff, but like Michael Eaton and Michelle
Viper as Catwoman and Batman, and and like recut bits

(03:05):
of that cuts. The uses a shot from this of
the Batmobile driving into Gotham, as in that's him driving
away from this, you know, like it's the weirdest thing
in the world to watch. I feel like it would
never ever happen in any version of a franchise of
any kind ever. Again, that they like connected so much
to an older film like.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
That, I mean, they're Superman Returns. But that's just so conversation. Well,
this is the verts of pray to Batman Returns, Superman
Returns to Surbandam movie, if you really want to look
at it that way. But to your point, Matt Clips actors,
I mean, like what now, to the point where when
that promo got you know, re updated for you know,

(03:45):
closer to the premiere of the show, they reshot well,
they replaced all the Michael Keaton Michelle Viver' stuff with
the stun Doubles that we see in the in the
opening credits of the show. So that that's wise because
you don't want to lock yourself into like this is
a true sequel to Batman Turns. I mean, or maybe
you do. I don't know, but I'm kind of glad
they didn't, right.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, I mean I am too. I'm glad that Birds
of Prey felt like an amalgam of everything that was
in the kind of cultural consciousness that had come before,
Like that's why we've got Harley Quinn in a Schomacher
lit but Burtaney feelings sometimes world, you know, using the
same backlot sets and things like that, and then direct

(04:25):
homaging Michelle Pfeiffer and the kind of like Clooney and
Kilmer batsuit. You know, it was just kind of this
this hodgepodge of everything that audiences had seen before, with.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
A with a Buffy the Vampire Slayer kind of like
twist tone.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, exactly to make it cool for the kids, right,
you know, it's not cool for the kids this movie apparently.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yeah, McDonald's got in trouble for that.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
This is the first movie I ever saw in a
theater that I remember, start to finish. I think the
first movie I remember in being in a movie theater
to see was Star Trek six. I remember the end
of it where the cast is all signing their names
at the end because he was the last Star Trek
original series movie. I remember that. I remember that's distinctly.
But start to finish movie Batman Returns is the first

(05:18):
movie I remember seeing that I also remember my mom
covering up my eyes when the penguin bites that guy's
nose off, because again I'm like five six years old.
So baby McDonald's had a point. I don't know, like
that's like that's the thing, like they maybe they over
compensated right for Batman forever, because I think the sweet
spot was Batman eighty nine, right, I think that was

(05:39):
the spot. But they, you know, Tim Burton was like, Tim,
we gotta have Tim back. Tim, what you want to
come back? He's like, fine, no, just I want to
complete control. Whatever you want, Tim, And this is Tim
Burton's lee control for Batman. So there we have it.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, I'll come back. But do I have to make
a Batman movie in it?

Speaker 2 (05:57):
How long does Batman have to be?

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Trusting you're putting a number on that. No, he's just
got to be in it.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
Okay, speaking of numbers coming into this, I already want
to point out like I'm curious to see what minute
Batman shows up?

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Okay? Oh and sorry, can we can we qualify Bruce
Wayne standing up in front of the signal or Batman
in the car?

Speaker 2 (06:21):
I think in the costume.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
I think in the costume.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yeah, I like that.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Because Batman in the costume is what is selling, you know,
selling tickets, right, like right, I mean.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Not, are you saying this bacinette is not why everybody exactly? Yeah, Like,
I mean, I'm here for this wet right, like I'm
here for Catwoman too, I'm here for you know, other things.
I'm here for Michael Keaton. But like, we all love
Danny DeVito.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
We all love Danny DeVito, except for my wife who
refuses to watch this movie basically because of the penguin.
But but yeah, I want to see you know, Batman returns.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
When does he return? Let's let's see.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
What a strange title too like? Because I mean, the
Dark Knight returns one of the most, if not the
most iconic comic book ever written. I mean, is that
where they got the returns from? They're like, I don't know,
because it's a sequel. I don't know return.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Burton's talked about in the past that he always hates
these like subtitlely sequels. Yeah, like like because originally I
think this was just being developed as like Batman Too too,
you know, Like, so I honestly don't know where the
returns part of this comes from. But three years later
got them City, get it. I have a feeling it
was not Burton's insistent. I feel I feel like someone

(07:39):
came to his trailer one day and said the movie
is called Batman Returns.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Like really, like Batman Forever. Makes sense as a title
because he's like, I'm not I am Bruce Wayne and
Batman because I choose to be. I'm like, he's Batman Forever.
Now like that?

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Sits like this is like Batman comes back again for
the X amount of time to save the extra saving
the day Batman, right, I guess he's anyway. Strange title
Superman Returns makes sense. He's returning from something. What is
this anyway?

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah? Speaking of the Buffy vibes of Birds of Prey,
we've got the original Buffy here on screen at the moment.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
I've never seen the No, that's you're thinking of Christy Swanson.
This is Christy I am? Is this not Christy Swants?

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Is Christy Conway? I needed to retire from the podcast
and it's a commentary.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
He can't edit out his mistake.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Oh man, I have bat egg on my face.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
I have never seen the Buffy movie. By the way,
I've never seen it.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
It's it's fun.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Probably fine, it's well, it's it's it's a.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
It's a comedy.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Watch it as a as a Halloween comedy.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Rucker Howard is in it.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Right. Let me be clear, he's never seen Buffy the
Vampire Slayer TV show.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
I've seen clips and promos.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Right, So you are not allowed to watch the movie,
so you have full context for what it's supposed to be.
I understand. I understand what you mean. You know, in
some ways I feel like Buffy even informed Small.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
Bill a bit.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
So that's what people keep telling.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, so you you probably should watch them at some point.
Hell Mouth, meteor Freak, you know, same, same def Who
is who is a cast member in common with the
Buffy movie in this movie? Clearly it's not Buffy as
and some have claimed.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
There's a trivia there's a are you asking as a
trivia question?

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah? One of the main vampires from this from the
Buffy movie has already.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yes, Okay. P Herman Poor went out for Paul Rubins,
who's passed away recently went on to play the Penguin's
dad again on Gotham.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Very cool that he took. I think that's so cool.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
That is cool. I like that connective tissue. And then
you know, and they tried to get Burgess Murders to
play the dad, but he was he was too old
and he was ill apparently, and that's that's the story there.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Oh okay, because it was Burgess and like Julie Newmoar
or something, they wanted to do right, okay for Gotham.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
For so they just went to Pee Wee's Big Adventure
instead and got.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Those guys right right.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
I was like, dang, I thought Burgess Meredith had been
gone for a long time.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Okay, I'm got up.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Well, no, I mean he would have been They would
have been too old to play his parents here, yes,
I mean if it's more for the Hey, it's a
cool cameo, so.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
It would have been fun though, Yeah, legacy.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Casting and cameos.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Guys, which room in your house do you have your
giant quilted wall?

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Is that what? Those are? Cushions? Aren't they?

Speaker 1 (10:32):
They look like cushions. Yeah, it feels like a very
art deco, you know. Like that's the thing about these
movies too, Like we can we can argue, we can
make our you know, favorite movie Batman ranking lists or whatever,
but like The design of these movies is unincredible, incredible.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Like everybody, everybody loves the Crystal and trilogy and they're
fantastic films, especially the first two. But I mean, he
went no Chris only went to Chicago in shots Chico,
Chicago City's Gotham City. This that Burton and Schumacher both
created a Gotham city to exist it and it's very distinctive.

(11:08):
And theo's are they're visual storytellers, and I love it.
I think I think the aesthetics is of Batman are
more important than than most other combat characters because just
he's the coolest guy and he's the coolest world and
and that's a play here for sure.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
It's also I feel like, you know, the Nolan movies
did their part, and like there's been a lot of
movies since then, different interpretations of Batman. I feel like
this is the one that is still in the cultural
consciousness of just like, shouldn't it be like art deco
when weird looking?

Speaker 2 (11:34):
You know, Well, that's because of six Flags, Matt six
Flags theme parks are keeping the Burton Schewaker movies alive
in the public consciousness and and God bless them for it. Really.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
I think just learned the other day. There used to
be in Magic Mountain out here there was a they
you know, they had their Batman the ride in the
little bit Gotham Park that's like supposed to be like
graffitied and like messed up, kind of like eighty nine.
But they had a statue of like of family, you know,
a mother and father and their young son in like
there got them park for a while, and I'm like,
oh god, that's promoting Yeah, okay, this this.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Guy plays the mayor here he goes on to play
Angel's dad and X Men the last hand.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Interesting, it was like a real deal actor in real
movies that certainly Zach and I have not seen, I believe.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
So yeah, but hey talking about real guy actor Christopher Walkin,
are youably the best villain of the film.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yeah, Max Shrek who finally this film, sure, and finally
is getting his own action figure from McFarland Toys later
this year.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
It's a very exciting thing.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Oh man, my Patman returns toys though, like that was
the height of my child getting these toys. There was
no Max Trek figure back in nineteen ninety. No one
thought they wanted to play with a Max Trek. No,
they could have had like a burn off face, could
have been a whole thing.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yes, penguin looked quite different.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
The penguin they just again talked to our point earlier
about scaring children. I'm like, oh my god, we can't
show this to kids. Like they just repainted the Killner penguin.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah superpowers.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, now when when when the when the animated series
stories came out? I got that one the penguin that
was my penguin that I played with with when I
watched this movie. Yeah, he looked like the Danny de
Vingo Danny Devidvito penguin, but no Christopher walking man like
he's he's like a Steve Martin where like I saw
this movie at a young age and I thought, oh,
he's old because he has his great hair. So to me,

(13:29):
he's been old for like thirty years.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
Yeah right, yeah, oh, but you you also have this
great this Uh Andrew, I can't I don't know how
to say his last name, but Andrew brani Arsky. I
think playing with Chip playing Chip.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Who's Matt knows all about his son.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
He's doing the walking impression like.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
So Lewis and Clark. Yeah, no way.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
He plays X. He plays the avatar for uh Jackson,
their junior basically like Lex's son, and he invents the
Matrix essentially, and his like superhero version of himself in
his Matrix game. Is this guy like buffed out and
doing a lot of Superman. You're done?

Speaker 3 (14:15):
You know that? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (14:20):
But his his choice to do a bad, like I think,
purposely bad walking impression as his son is so damn funny.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
To time to bring Georgie of the messes.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yeah, time to bring Joy of.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
The pretty Yeah that's coming up?

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Oh man?

Speaker 1 (14:43):
What like I feel like all three of us know
this movie, like we know a song like we can
we can hummet and then sing the lyrics, you know,
throughout the whole thing.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah, commission we've got We've got a nice close up
of Michael Keaton.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Now look, we're gonna do the Batman appearance. Count, Chris,
I'm gonna do the I'm just let's just clock the
time code. I know I'm gonna do the How many
lines is commission?

Speaker 1 (15:09):
Gordon? Have count?

Speaker 2 (15:09):
He's not one so far? So far I could quote
them off the top of it. I know how many
I was gonna say I think we can do this. Yeah,
right now, most iconic shot of Batman of all time?

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yeah, no, I mean this is a great shot.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
Don't get me wrong. This is a great shot of
Bruce Wayne of all time Bruce Wayne. Yes, yeah, yeah,
but like a forever classic shot.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, here's here's the.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Too awesome Like the character actors littered throughout this movie
are so good.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Also, state of politics, right, want the guy in charge?
I'm the mayor? No, not you shre. You can learn
a lot about politics by watching this film.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
And that was the batmobile shot that was used in
the sizzle.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
The way when the Dark Knight left, God forget.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
His daughter had to take over Batman's little girl is
all grown up?

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Do you either of y'all have the handheld game the
Batman returns?

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Like?

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, played the ship out of that, and so much
of it was Batman on the Batmobile fighting these these
ten Burton skeleton.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yes, yeah, I didn't have the handheld but had I played?

Speaker 1 (16:15):
My cousin had the Super Nintendo game. And do you
guys know the thing about the Batman gift shop that
was supposed to be in this set? Oh?

Speaker 2 (16:23):
So, the the original script for Batman two by san
Ham was was someone selling Batman like memorabilia and and
then stuff from the first film, like the broken batwing.
That's that sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
Oh, oh you're right, I don't that was never made
it to the set. But this toy shop that he's about.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
To what we got we got, Chris.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
It was like fourteen okay, okay, all shot of Batman
in the car. Yeah, which is by the numbers Batman Forever,
a better movie then better Batman movie.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
It's their their see we.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Should get into our rankings at some point, just like
are completely subjective, right, I like it both a lot,
but yes, I see, Yes, this toy shop that he
just threw everybody into and he's about to like blast
the devil into that was dressed on set as a
Batman souvenir shop, and they had stuff from the comics
and like they had made like their own bespoke like

(17:19):
props and gifts and whatnot. And it must have been
like on set that someone decided, like this is too much.
Can we just make this a generic like you gift
shop or whatever. But there were great photos of that
little little storefront all decked out with batgear. Online it's
very cool. We can get into our rankings and the

(17:43):
movies and stuff later. Michelle Pfeiffer for me, is mvyp
of this whole quadrilogy?

Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Absolutely, I mean, I mean she's got stiff competition.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
I will take other I wanted to ask you guys
about what do you think of this? Like Clark take
on Selena Kyle she's doing in this film.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
I it's not Selena Kyle, right, you know, like it's
not it's not It's not comic Selena Kyle. What she
does with her Catwoman performance or you know, like once
once that happens is unreal to me, is so damn watchable.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Well, it's and that's why it fits because Michael Keaton
is not comic book Batman either, but what he does
and his very Swena Batman performance is iconic. So Chris, Chris,
what are your thoughts on this?

Speaker 3 (18:29):
I mean, I've always found it interesting because most of
the time we as nerds and comic book nerds go oh,
it's I mean, I hate to say this, but I'm
still thinking it like, oh, it's to remove from the
source material.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
It's just I wish it was closer to the source material.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
But with these movies. We don't really do that. We go, oh,
Michell Peffer's awesome. This Catwoman is amazing, even though it
has nothing to do with the comic books, Like so
what is it? You know, she's just so captivating and
the psychotic character and the and the you know production.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
The day all right too, it's like a circus guy,
get is back?

Speaker 3 (19:06):
So is that three years at two? I think it's two?

Speaker 1 (19:09):
Right, because two lines? He's nobody says anything in between?
What says anythink that's the level we're at counting that's
one line.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
But like yeah, but like on a script on the page,
if nobody would be one between.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
It's one line.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
So so yeah, that's he's got two. So fun, we'll see.
As I understand that Michael Keaton cut a lot of
Batman dialogue out, which which I agree with actually, which
is because he's like less less is more with his character.
Totally agree with. He's not Adam Wess, a deputized agent
of the law here, right, he is Batman creature that
he's not. I mean, he's not an urban legend because

(19:46):
people know he exists. But come on, like, he's not
gonna be talking all day but busting not a Batman
credit card as he does two movies later, which is crazy.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
But anyway, this is so cool too, Like it's just
so indicative of what this is. We're watching this because
that pushing shot at the Gotham Zoo amazing and it's
it looks it's it's awesome miniature or a bunch of
different miniatures, I don't know, and it looks so cool.
But it's also like, this is what we're doing in
the Batman movie, Tim, you know, like this is what
we're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on for this

(20:16):
one shot just because it looks super cool. It's very
it's so just like Tim Burton at the height of
his power.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Tim Burton is perfect for Batman though, right.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Oh totally yeah, But he just doesn't like he's said
this before. I loved Tim Burton, but he has said
in many interviews like I wouldn't know a good story
if it bit me. I know stuff that I respond
to visually, and that like and to your point, like
Batman is the coolest because he looks the coolest, like
everything about him, Like at the end of the day,
that is that is a thing that is like inherent

(20:45):
to the character and and esthetically why it works so
well with what Burton wants to do and bringing in
this German expressionism and.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
All that well, and back to like the Chicago Nolan thing,
like Gotham City is a is really a character in
the comics and in all Batman media, like usually Gotham
City is a character. And you know, Tim Burton is
kind of the perfect choice for something like that because
those miniatures they just have this otherworldly just this is

(21:16):
not the world we know. You know, it's it's adjacent
to real life, but it's not real life.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
You know, everything I'm looking at I can recognize. But
this is a weird way to put it together, right.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
Right, I think I really miss miniatures and that sort
of vibe in Batman films.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, I think it's vile coming out of your mouth
from Batman films and challenge into raw fish and severed hands.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Okay, there's a lot. Well to follow you up real quick, Chris.
That's why I think the Matt Reeves the Batman versus
has over the Nolan movies. So, yes, Gotham City has
a visual identity and a character to it. Okay, So
you want to talk away with the big one.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
I mean, what is it? Like, here's the thing, that's
what we're doing.

Speaker 2 (22:03):
He could Tim tim Burton, Like I said, it's perfect
for Batman. He took the two most normal Batman villains
and turn them into the weirdest like freak zombies resurrected
like both of them, like both of them really because
Catwoman is a resurrected split personality and Penguin is a
is a it's.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
A mutant, you know.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
I mean, like what the two most normal ones, like
Tim Burton, if you give him mister free he face
man bat this man is like perfect for all of
those villains. No, let's do these, dude.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
Now.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
The reason of these two is because they're going through
the roster of the Adam West Show. Like Okay, Joker, check,
who's next, Penguin check? Catwoman check. That's all we have
them here. But like ironically, they're the two villains Tim
Burton has least suited to bring to life. Now, these
are incredible performances, incredible perform both of them. Now. But
that's the thing, right to your point earlier, Chris, comic

(22:57):
accuracy is not equal quality, right, you know what I'm saying,
So like just because something is not comic actate doesn't
mean it's bad, and vice versa. And that's what we're
dealing with here, because these are some memorable like comic
characters and performances we're dealing with.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yep, especially true of this era where it's like shared universe.
What's that mean? That sounds stupid, Like there's no thought
to like anything like that on TV or in film
where you know otherwise. So just everyone knows that this
is a particular take that they're gonna get on these characters.

(23:29):
Not to say, I'm sure there was tons of you know,
comic book nerd backlash at the time, but it is
it is interesting to say.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Did you guys, Do you guys remember Danny DeVito and
Arnold doing like a little batman bit at the Oscars
a year or two.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Of good it's fun.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, Michael Keaton with it.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
He made me smile so much. Michael Keaton changing out
of his bow tie and putting on a Bruce Wayne
ascot for that one bit because he knew it was incredible.
He still got it, he really does.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
The flat is his work in the Flash was fantastic.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Again, just the bile is starting already here.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
See that's aline, I think, right, I get that must
have tasted terrible, but like the bile is really a
step too far. Like I find a little deform, a
little deform, but he's fine. But the fact that he's
like deformed and then ends up with penguins, I'm like,
and then he's also spewing bile, like what come on?

(24:32):
Like it's just a step too far. Like all all, look,
all Batman villains have some sort of other idio secrecy,
idio secret street to the personality or some or some
physical you know, characteristic. But this is too far, Tim,
Like this is where you gotta step in and really
like not a not a terrible idea, but you just
took it too far, Tim. But but Matt, like you

(24:52):
know the hideout here, this is a classic Batman hide out,
Batman Villa hide out. It's a it's abandoned zoos. So
he hangs out there with a circus gang like that's
it's just like the Joker hanging out a toy factory
like it you know it makes sense?

Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, yeah, no, I love that they go for like
the whole the real layer here, you know, of the
abandoned whatever it takes his hand with the seventh hands
so good. Here's a question, like just like a three
thousand and four thousand dollars a month apartment in New
York now, like even though it's a shitty and it's
got a railroad track going through it or whatever.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Who when they were single and by themselves said this
when they came home sometimes.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
I did, Oh, I thought you Naturally, I'm like I
did because of this movie ext question. Yeah, absolutely, I don't.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Thankfully, I don't have to say that anymore.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
But I'm just that's what I did for a long time,
not every time, my imaginary cat.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
And yeah, this scene is so fantastic too, because of
the way it book ends with her scene later when
she comes home. Like that's what makes that scene so
powerful is when once you've seen this one, there's a
real payoff.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
There that we'll get to that. But that's one of
the most disturbing things I've ever seen, especially when you're
six years old.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Him. It is again, it's unreal how good she is
in this movie. And I love too that, like you
know you, especially in the time, like she's taking this
movie thinking like I'm doing a super villain a movie.
It's like, no you were doing this fractured again like
Bride of Frankensteiny performance through that, like it's so it's

(26:22):
so cool and I like that too. Over the years
she started to appreciate how cool this this movie is
and and how how iconic.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
She is in it.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Also, boyfriend who doesn't have time for Michelle Fiffer, What
is wrong with you?

Speaker 3 (26:38):
Right?

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Well? Dependent yeah, yeah, it is funny too that it's
like she's so lonely and stuff. But apparently she had
a boyfriend until about two seconds ago. Oh man, he
just wasn't a lot of this, I guess too. Like
this this week, this weird origins thing kind of to

(27:01):
the popularity of these characters that you were talking about, Zach.
It's like none of these origins or characters are really
in the consciousness at the time beyond just what they
looked like in Batman sixty six, right.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
I would assume. So they're like, oh yeah, penguin top hat,
cigar cap, womans cat hair, and then Jokers white skin,
green hair, like I mean of the I mean of
the Burton villains.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Right.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
The Joker has the most common book acrid origin from
the Red Hood, sure, which is its own thing. But
these two are just radically different, but nobody cared. I mean,
if you present an A plus product, people, I mean
they're not going to care that you deviated for the
source material.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Kind of like like you know, like Spider Man wasn't
super in this consciousness when the Remi movies came out,
so the fact that he had the organic web shooting
is like the most smart change.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yeah, or even Superman the movie. We take it for
granted now, but they cut out Superboy, right, and they
make the crystal Fortress of Solitude, and like that's the thing.
The Burton and Chew Marcher movies and the Donner and
rich Lester movies, right, those will forever have an impact
on pop culture understanding these characters because they were the
first big thing, the forcelessalt who will always have crystals

(28:08):
almost you know. And then and then the Joker in
the Penguin and the cat one like this Batman. Then
mid Series had to change their Penguin and Catwoman to
match these, you know, and how many more people saw that?
And then I thought Selena Kyle's blonde for years because
of the movie in the unanimated series.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
So it is so funny despite that they changed back
those characters immediately when they did the redesign, as soon
as they yeah, yeah, yeah, they just radically go back
to the other one.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
I love the lighting on her face in this scene,
the way it foreshadows her becoming catwoman.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
It you know, puts that mask on her face. This
was like an accident on set too, right, Like this
was just like, oh, that's lucky, let's lean into those.
I don't know, but I think I think Burton talked
about that at some point. Interesting. It's also like I
don't know how big a how big a Tim Burton
fan of you guys just in general.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
I mean, it's it's about my mood. I think it's
like do I want to watch a Tim Burton movie
or do I want to watch a movie? Because if
I want to watch a movie, I don't. I don't
know if I'm going to put on a Tim Burton movie.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Sure, But but like to your point, because he's a
very strong tour like he's got his stamp, he's got
his style.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
You know, it's a Tim Burton movie when it plays
like every every time, very I had iconic visual style.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
I had my big Tim Burton phase in high school
and like went back and looked at all of them
and lay like, I I to your point. I don't
rewatch them all the time, but like I love them
like a good Tim Burton movie is awesome, and it's
fun to like have the knowledge of what he's obsessed with,
what what story beats or visuals keep recurring in his stuff,

(29:50):
to see like oh, the swirl on the the penguin umbrella,
Like that's his deal. This is the first time he's
got his stitch together woman, and that is it becomes
a huge motif for him in all his work. So
it's like, I get your point where it's almost like
it's almost like considering him like a painter rather than
a filmmaker.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, yeah, I'll ask your questions a second man. But
this moment here, this is like the most threatening moment.
And then that split second of his face. What an
intimidating scene that was to Christopher walk And he's become
a parody of himself right as an actor.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
But this dude can act.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Oh yeah, no, I and Matt I'd say I'm a
Tim Burton fan. I think he kind of lost his
way in the early two thousands. And he'll tell you
that too, but he got caught up in the big
the big movies and the big special effects and all
that and getting back down to you know, returning to
his roots and stuff like he has like the Beetlejuice

(30:48):
Squel for example, that some of the thing and he's
as of this recording, he's he's apparently going to make
a remake of the Attack of the Fifty Foot Woman
with Margot Robbie. I think that's a great idea.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
I'm very excited for that. But no, I mean back,
I don't know, but he's one of those maybe he's not.
Maybe this shows where we're coming at it from. But
he's one of those first directors where he had a
distinct visual style where you see this and you know,
oh that's Tim Burton movie, right, Yeah, and that was
him for you know, Pee Wee Beetlejuice. This big Fish
is a fan. It's probably his best movie. If I
wasn't a comic book fan like I am, I probably

(31:17):
said that was the best movie. I'm gonna say Batman
eighty nine because.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
But it's not my favorite thing. But like like, yeah,
the Nightmare Before Christmas is huge for me, you know,
and and still has its crazy cultural impact.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
You would think there have been a dozen Nightmare Before
Christmas movies for how much that is filmingated in pop culture.
Every year a new one comes out. No, like this
movie came out in nineteen ninety three or whatever, just
the one. Still he didn't even direct it. Everybody thinks
he did. It's Tim Burton's Night remember before Christmas, but
like he produced it and stuff. But like so much
of that merch is just evergreen. Now, oh, here, here
we go, here's there's the scene.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yeah, here's the Oh my god, I wonder how many times.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
They have to do this or is it just like
maybe like Michelle, you get one, you.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Get one and a half of these, you know, She's like,
I'm not doing this tight. Well, We've got two of
these dresses and I'm gonna soak it in.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
So talking about tying birds of prey, here's our first
kind of tie to birds of prey. Okay, so Catwoman
has been resurrected meta humanly by cats. Does that make sense.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
By the power of bost Yeah, we'll get into that.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
But yes, oh no, we don't have to talk about that.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Do we have to go? Oh? Absolutely, got No, we
don't need to do the commentary on them. That'll be
the end of the show, you know, Victory Lap we're
talking about the Hollebird Catwoman, if anybody's confused. But yeah,
this is I mean, like, meta human is a very
loose term in the DC universe, though Birds of Prey

(32:49):
the show treats it more like mutant in Marvel, right,
like it's more about genetic invitation. Though they do say
there's been some weird things I can't believe we're talking about.
So she's giving this incredible performance right now, but uh, yeah,
I don't. I don't know, like in a strict reading,
if we're going off this movie, she is now a
meta human. Right.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
This scarred me as a child seeing her kill because
when you're a kid, you love your stuffed animals. They're
like your your your friends, right, And does you see
her just like put them in the garbage of fols.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
I'm like, oh no, well she's not really a collector.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
Well, we're referencing something we talk about all microphones literally
and hit a little bit in episode zero.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, but yeah, sorry Chris, you brought this up. And
then I feel like I talked too long, But like, yeah,
this is this is her now as Seleen n. Kyle
the meta human? Right right?

Speaker 3 (33:43):
Yeah, so this is our kind of birth point. I
guess we could say of the Birds of Prey ties.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, which they brought into the comics of the New
fifty two. I believe in like the number zero issue
Villain's Month or something like that Catwoman's origin that.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
She was resurrected. Yeah, which, yes, hell here, baby, hell here. Yeah,
this is the dollhouse too. It's just so like what
was her sad little life before there? You know, she
never wore this coat ever, you know.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Well, it was on sale one she thought she might
have a fun night out on the town.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
Right, She was feeling herself for one second, then got
home and was really embarrassed.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
But I'm glad it was like the longest it was
two sizes too big, clearly, so she could have.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
A Yeah, maybe she bought as a backup, you know, can.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Get a hood and gloves out of it.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
In fairness, there's not a lot of loose fabric on
the Catwoman's suit, so yeah, she seas in every little
bit she's got.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
So so this is your favorite performance of the four movies,
Matt Michelle, like, hands down for me, I mean you
might be right, like like just just subjectively you might
or objectively you might be right.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
It's yeah, I mean like it's a it's a Schmorgesborg right,
Like it's it's an embarrassment of riches to do MVP
of the original Batman tritrilogy, especially for the first three.
But it's like Jack Nicholson incredible, Tim Carrey height of
his or Jim Carrey height of his power, but like this,
this tops it for me. I don't know what do
you guys feel?

Speaker 3 (35:24):
I mean I think if I think, like if if
you try to take the conversation seriously and go who
if you had to give an oscar to one of
the actors from like like not that you would, but
if you were giving an if you were picking an
actor or performance to give an oscar two from those
original Batman films, I think it has to be Michelle Fleiffer.
I don't know who else it would be.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
It's almost like the Chris Tarieve effect where she has
to play like three different angles. You know she is mousey,
no pun incentive, but Mouseie Selena Kyle before just got
one would sensual Catwoman and then like Selena Kyle who
is Catwoman, but of that it's her secret identity. So
that's three distinct performances and she pulls them all off famously.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
So yeah, and deteriorating levels of Catwoman. Yeah, just like
mentally deteriorating levels of Catwoman and Selena throughout. All Right,
we're coming up to this here. We're like this movie,
it's a Tim Burton thing, and I like it in
a Tim Burton movie, but like there is a homemade
quality to a lot of his films, especially when it

(36:27):
comes to effects and things like that. But like this
is one of the first, like one of my favorite goofs.
Basically in this movie when Penguin's about to bring this
baby that's being stolen back out of the sewer and
he's riding his little rubber ducky, but it's like the
math the physics of where he is on this rubber
ducky and how he just like perfectly comes out of

(36:49):
the sewer in a second like makes no goddamn sense,
but you go with it because he's a sewerman raised
by penguins, So who cares.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
No, Okay, he was not raised by ping. This is
to say he was raised by the circus. He happened,
and the penguin habitat, and I.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Guess they were down there all the zoo.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
It's the abandoned zoo.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Okay, someone was down there already. Don't don't think yeah,
don't think yeah, Okay, you're right.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
The duck would not push him up this far.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
You're where is The platform is not yellow, but it's fine.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Speaking of the homemade feeling of it all though, Matt, like,
this is when I realized, oh, this is all I'm set,
Like this entire film happens in this, in this.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
But yeah, Ny, you know the rubber duck or the
rubber duck, the giant duck is also getting a toy
from McFarland Toys. So I saw that just what I
have I have a little bit always needed is the
duck and a Max Shrek.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Do you see that? Do you guys see that behind me?
I have that little duck. I have my my Batman returns.
This is from when I was a kid, My four
pack of vehicles and the duck, the bat ski, the
bat torpedo in the batmobile.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
But I'm not a colladle. What was the what was
the ye.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Hey, Bruce, Wayne's back. I forgot he was in this movie.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
This movie.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Oh, I just hope he found his parents. Whatever he's
gonna say.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Here is Bruce Wayne the cause of deforestation looking at
this tree.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
But and and what a power move in the nineties
to have one of these giant TVs.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, giant TV, giant TV or giant tree and a
fireplace that, yeah, you could move into.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Bruce. Bruce is an asshole though, making Alfred decorate this
tree all by himself, this tree the size of a redwood,
the California redwood, and he's just like taking this semi.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
It's there for Alfred, so I can see, like Bruce.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
Maybe Alford takes joy. I enjoy putting up Chris's decorations.
Now he often feels the same.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Do you guys, like, I don't know where this would
be canon, but like, do you guys kind of subscribe
to the idea that, like the Waynes were killed around Christmas? No,
I've never heard that in my life. I've heard this said. Okay,
maybe I just made it up them, but.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
No, I haven't. I haven't.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
I think there is is it snowing in the Batman
Verus Superman? I kind of think in the.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
World so I don't.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
City famously at the North Pole. So yeah, that's a
good point.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
This is a good This is a great Max Shrek
scene there with the press. By the way, let's give
the Constitution the rest. Well, he's about to say, why
is this? Why is Knox not one of these characters
from a man? Is Robert wool not back for this?
Like he he was supposed to die at the end
of Batman eighty nine and they liked him so much
that they changed the script so he can bring him back,

(39:48):
and they didn't bring up and clearly he could have
been in the in the crowd or something. I mean,
maybe that's too much to pay him for a bit
role like that.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
I was also told Robin was going to be in
this movie, but I haven't seen him yet. Is he coming?

Speaker 2 (39:59):
I haven't actually figure The best No, no, no, I'm
not mean no exaggeration. The best Robin action figure of
all time is the Batman returns Robin figure.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Not kidding. He looked just like he did on the
pages at the time.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Yeah, it was the Tim Drake costume and flat top,
flat top yep. But my exposition here about the Penguin's
history when that.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Marlon Wayne's got paid for this though, right.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
I think, yeah, yeah, he had much like Billy d Williams.
They both had pair play deals and they both got
paid to not appear in these films. How many lists
did it supposed to be cold? Back and forth here.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
I've never had VISI swab, but I know how to
serve it.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
Goes back to it.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
It's got these like octagonal glasses on or hexagonal glasses on.
Bruce Wayne has interesting Yeah, I mean at least the bottoms.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
Of every single thing. Is that? This fine choice in
this movie.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
But that's Tim Burman love. Yeah, it's got this barometer
in the Batcave back they're just spinning around behind Alford.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
And on one of the TVs behind Alfred was the
model shot of Wayne Manner before too, where it's just
like they live in a cartoon. It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Okay that continuity talk about that, right, I mean this
is this is just as not a sequel to Batman
in the nineties Batman Forever is because nothing is the same. Sure,
Michael Keaton, Michael Coff, pat Hingle and the everything else
is different.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
References to continuity otherwise, don't worm about.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Yeah, because like the Wayne manor the house totally different.
The Gotham city looks different anyway.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah, especially between the two Burton movies. Like there is
some visual and like set continuity between the the Schumacher movies,
because like they went so quickly into production on Batman
and Robin after Batman Forever that it made sense to
use some of the old stuff. But like this was
like not only years of parts, but also like they
went from England to Burbank, you know, like it's just

(42:07):
it's a completely different thing, with the exception of this
gorgeous car that we're looking at.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Yeah, they just gave the car out like a buff
job because it's all shiny now. Same with a batsuit.
I used to say that Batmanidi nine suit was my favorite,
but now that I've seen all the batsuits in person,
I've had the plevers to do that. I think the
bat Members turned suit might be the best. I don't
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
It's hard to say. There's something good choice of panther suit.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
I like the nipples, though with no nipples, the panther suit.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
I don't care about. The nipples do not affect me
one way or another.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
So the Penguin's coming to visit his parents grave. Did
he know who his parents were? Did he have his
parents killed? These are the things that fans have talked
about for years.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
What do you what do you think interesting? I've never
really considered killed, but I considered he might have known
who they were. Yeah, I've never is there a killed
there killed theory? I've never heard that theory.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
I mean, they're all the theories exist online, But that's true.

Speaker 3 (43:02):
That is true.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
One of my other favorite little coops is the gravestone
that just moved at yeah when he pushed again. But
like I say all that not to detract from it,
Like there is a theater of this stuff that I
very much enjoy, happy to to suspend the disbelief on.

(43:27):
And like those little things just are charming.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
All those are fun. I mean, yeah, I love looking
for them and they they they're more endearing to me.
Even finding make it more charming.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
Totally. I can understand it's not the correct way to
watch a movie, but this is I've seen it several times.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Well, I saw it my wife. When I was explaining
this to her, she's like, how can you watch anything?
I'm like, I know, it's tough because when you know
all the behind the scenes things like oh, this is
how they do that, and they obviously put that there.
Oh look that's fake. She's like, how could you watch
anything and enjoy it. I'm like, that's the struggle. That's
the struggle of working in the industry. Like this, see
this guy, this guy is gonna pop out here. This
guy should be knocks right.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Oh totally the mustache reporter.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah yeah mm hm at with a parents. I like
this this universe though, like and Schumacher carries it on
to a point, but it's a little more modern, but
like this hyper nineteen forties eighties kind of existence, like
these you know, guys wearing top hats and Tommy guns
and like that's that's Batman's sweet spot. That's why I

(44:27):
like Batman Kate Crusader so much as well. Taking place
in the in the Nebulus nineteen forties, like that's a
wonderful time. Like it's not the forties here, but it's
like Batman, the nmated series is this that's the aesthetic
in the world, and I like that a lot.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
It's just its own time.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yeah, but there is still like that that like punk
grunge aesthetic that a lot of like the younger characters
have in these two. Like the combination of the two
of them makes like such a appealing visual and unappealing
like world to live in that it's perfect for the.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
I was their number one song, that should be like
number two is a great line as well.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
And here comes Gossip Gerdi's origin story.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
But this is her only appearance in this one, right, yes,
she is just a person. She's not Gossip Gerty here.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
I don't think right, no, right, go the mest No,
I'm not gonna bother you guys. But there are so
many bit characters in this that are in Lewis and Clark,
including this guy. Okay, oh he literally just drives a
cab in an episode. But I mean she's so awesome.

(45:40):
I love she wraps the whip around her like this too.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Yeah, like how else? Well, yeah, it's not the traditional
like on the belts or whatever.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Also, yikes, that's that's gonna leave a scar what she
just did to that guy his face too. She's like,
she's like, thanks, are always waiting on some batman to
save you? Like she's so kind of sending this one
when Jesus saved.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
It's so cool too to see again. This character specifically
become kind of iconic from this movie for even non
Batman fans. But like the fact that it's less about
the movie, it's more about her. She's got like a
line at hot topic from time to time and things
like that where just like people recognize that this is
an unreal looking thing to put on screen.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
So Bruce Wayne the only time he does Bruce Wayne
things in these two films, like Wayne Enterprise a CEO, Like.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
I like that that's throwing a report across the table.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
Like Tim Burton has no interest in this aspect of
the character. But I think it is an important aspect
of the character, which is you know why I hope
with you know, if and when the Robert Pattinson one continues,
they do more of this stuff as well, because I
think that's an important angle of it. Like the businessman
Bruce Wayne, I find that fun so and padded all

(47:01):
these cushions. Now it's all I'm thinking about.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Not believable, but very cool looking backdrop of miniatures behind
this record all it looks so soft. Kind of want
that percolator. So this is I got a brag about this.
There's a company out here in La called Nostalgic Nebula

(47:27):
and they do screenings like anniversary screenings and like themed
events based on like cult classic shows. So I think
it was like twenty seventeen or so, but they were
doing for one of the anniversaries of this movie, maybe
those twenty five whatever. It was like a nice rund
number anniversary for Batman returns. And they threw a a

(47:48):
Max garade Paul. They had a live band that had
been made to learn not just face to face from
this movie, but party Man and kiss from a Room
and Kiss Kill Me, you know, the YouTube wanted like
all all the big songs from this so and then
they had the screening. So like, I went with a

(48:09):
girl I was dating at the time, like honestly it
was our last date. But it was just like there's
nothing to do with this, Like she was down to
like she got jokeered up. I dressed like two face.
We went to this thing and it had all the
Max Shrek like logo and signage all over the place
and like, you know, vote Cobb Pot from AYR or whatever,
and I'm like, this is the party I've wanted to
go to for my entire life. It was the coolest

(48:33):
damn thing. And then they did it again a few
years ago. They didn't do a max garade, but they
did a big screening and like v Neil was there,
who did the makeup effects, and like she she and
her team made up a guy to look like Penguin,
and the guy that trained Michelle on the whip was there.
He did a whip demo. Like it was just like twice,
this nostalgic Nebula company has thrown the party I've always

(48:57):
wanted to go to, has sent it around this movie.
It's the cool is yet. I'll try to post some
pictures maybe when this goes out.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
I remember it's such a staple of these old superho.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
Movies, the party, the dances and.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
The big gallop.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Yeah, I know I've seen you as two face before.
Have you re used that costume?

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Oh many times? It took so long to make.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
That's yeah, I was gonna say, I remember seeing photos
of you in that costume, which is like perfect.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, it's it's very much the what can I do
with Michael's and a and a you know second answer nothing.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
That's such a staple though, of these Batman movies. I
think every Batman movie needs a big gala party of
some guide.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
I think almost all four of them, the Originals do, yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
And then even the the Nolan ones really Bruce's birthday party,
and then Harvey Din's campaign thing and Bruce Wayne throws
for him, and then the whatever Bruce shows, Bruce reappears
in the world, and then.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
It's got to get crashed, and it's got to get crashed,
you know.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
If only they did invite it everybody right, so that
when you realize that Michael Keaton is playing Bruce Wayne
as Clark Kent, it makes a lot of.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Well it works. He talk about that, is it though?
Is there a part of it that's authentic? The like
especially in eighty nine when you see him like totally
distracted and about to put the glass down and Alfred
swoops in, you know, like that, I feel like that's
not for show.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
He's he's so pure occupied in thinking about being Batman
doing Batman things, like he's just on like you know,
cruise control. When he's Bruce Wayne, he's kind of absent
minded sometimes and it creates charming memorable moments like that,
Like like earlier on he's like, oh, I mistook me
for someone else. She's like, you miss just me. He's like,
oh yeah, sure, yeah, he's what is the name of.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
It, He's comfortable behind the mask.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
Yes, he's only comfortable you guys.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
So you know, the real batman is Bruce in the
cave with Alfred wearing the count. I agree with that,
by the way, but why.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
You know, could you imagine if the Red Triangle surf
its gang shut up on Birds of Prey it would
be on so many more lists.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
Oh yeah, people forget about these guys.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
You know.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
One of them is Doug Jones. I don't know which one,
but famous Doug Jones, Silver Surfer ape Sapien, you know,
the guy with the hands and pants Labyrinth a Sawru
from Star Trek Discovery. Just an amazing just physical character
actor guy. And he's really gotten a lot of spotlight
in recent years and he deserves it because he's a
great character actor and physical performer. See this is too far.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
This bs with the fish, this is very strange.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
I understand he's deformed, but he's not like biologically a
wild I'm an animal. Maybe he is, I don't know, but.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
What are we doing? I mean, yeah, this is where
it is just true, Like Tim is doing a monster movie. Yes,
and this is where it looks so gross.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
This is where my wife is out.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Like because she's just so appalled by how he looks like.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
She just absolutely hates hates anything. Anytime Danny is on
screen as the penguin, she's just out, which is a
testament to his work because he plays it so awesome
late disgusting.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
It's also amazing. This plot is from Batman sixty six.
There is an episode where the penguin runs for Mary.
The posters look very similar, you know, anyway.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
If only Michael Keaton started running from Mary.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Does the artwork of this movie, Like, I have so
much merch when I was a kid, like like like
cups and I have a beach child, but I used
to this day it's a Batman Returns Beach Child. If
he didn't know it, you think it was a Batman
Forever beach Child because it's all tied I and specificty.
But just like this, I have so much of this.
Jane Levy, what's up.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
Crazy? I was gonna say, Oh, the the vido of
it too is so funny to me that like, like
there is no vanity to this performance, right, like and
he he is an actor who's never really cared about
like the vanity of things. But it's it's so funny
to see him have so much fun being this gross

(53:31):
and this this big a monster.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
You know, actually that's not that's not Jane Levey, who
was man Hooks.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
I think, is it?

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (53:40):
She was.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
She's in a lot of stuff. She's an yeah yeah
and then uh and then throw from the Sun and yeah. Ye.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
She was actually the original Buffy in the movie. If
you ever seen I was.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
I wasn't gonna say that, but I was sitting here thinking, man,
these guys don't know these actors.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Let's make a mayor uh Smallville connection. That's the stride
Gum guy who's the famous episode of stride Gum. He's
not in it, but it's it's product places, but he's
the spokesman of stride Gum. The guy gets his nose
bit off. He's not in that small episode, but he's
in all the commercials.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
You're really you're really reaching for a small you know,
guys like there's some not suitable for children, highly inappropriate
that went right over our heads. Still her void, but

(54:33):
fridge flip fridge.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
But we can go to McDonald's and get a toy
in the happy meal and.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
And your lid is a frisbee.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Oh my goodness. So again, watch this movie. You learn
all about politics. Right, elections happen in November? Is this
not late December? That's how you know?

Speaker 1 (54:55):
I like Christopher Walking basically like, we got plot reasons,
don't Yeah, I read in the screenplay We're gonna do this. Okay,
as fun as this plot is, let's let's talk favorite

(55:16):
of the original quadrilogy, like what is And this is
all totally subjective. I am not asking for the best.
I am not asking for you know, like the most revered.
But what is like you've got to watch one of
these movies today, Well, it's gonna be this one. At
this point, you've got to watch one of these movies tomorrow.
Which one are you gonna watch?

Speaker 3 (55:37):
Zach? You take it first.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
I'll go out and be bold and say it is.
It is almost undoubtedly Batman Forever. It is just like
this endlessly entertaining and light movie. This movie is very
interesting again, kind of like this is like looking at
a painting, like this is a really strange movie from
a very incredibly you know, uh prolific and interesting director,

(56:03):
but just like End of the Day, Batman Forever is
just this big gay fantasia of a Batman movie, and
I love it so much. So that's that is, that
is my answer.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
I gotta go with Batman eighty nine. I love John
Nicholson as the Joker. I mean, he probably still is
my favorite joker. People are like, oh, well, he's just
playing himself, but that's why he's perfect, because he is
he is the Joker. I mean, he can't get around that.
So I just Batman's an it moore as well. I
mean just the universe, Like I was sitting here, like
it's the perfect balance of all this stuff we're talking about,

(56:35):
Like it's not too wacky, but it's not too realistic.
It's this perfect middle ground. And I gotta go with
Babmin eighty nine, just just I think that's probably one
of the movies, and this one too, is probably two
of the movies. I've watched more than the other movie,
but Batman, of the two of these, I'm more of
a Batman eighty nine guy. So I'm gonna go with that.
That's I guess, Yeah, I guess I'm more burten with

(56:55):
with strict Studio Control. That's my too.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
I had to do this real quick. Out here on
the streets of New Gotham. He's fighting right in front
of No Man's Land collectibles. Oh okay, Birds of Prey.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Yes, yes, Michael Keaton's stunt doubles are fighting in front.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Of And that's all totally Michael, when you're talking about.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
You know, I adore all of these movies, and there's
something special about all of them for me. But I
guess I'm gonna go Batman eighty nine kind of for
the reason we were talking about the greatness of the pilot,
the Birds of Prey pilot earlier.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Like it just established it.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
It's like it nobody had done that before, nobody had
done Batman before. Kind of like how Richard Donner, you know,
gave us just a great template of a Superman movie.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
I kind of felt like that's what Batman is. A
production design is amazing.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
Michael Keaton is such an inspired choice to play the character,
and we get more of him there than we do here.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
Yeah, And it's just like.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
Every Batman movie since and to come is going to
be somehow compaired to Batman eighty nine. So I guess
I have to go with that one. But I mean,
you know, Calman is incredible in this and the pay
scene and just the color of Batman Forever is fantastic.
And even even Batman and Robin has a soft.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
I was waiting for you to get to that to
say something positive about that. It's anyway, moving.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
On, even Batman and Robin has a soft place, and
in my heart it's it's fun. It's a big circus
ice show, Batman on ice literally.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Ye, you know, I love them all.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
Not to cutch you off, Chris, but we've we've all
seen them behind the scenes of Michelle Fife are doing
this this whip in one Taho applause, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
One of my favorite like little goofs in this. When
she's doing it, it's clearly obviously a gymnast or whatever,
but she's like somersaulting through the aisles and then she
does a little job. When she's doing the somersault, she's
in flat versions of the boots because she can't do that,
and heels right and then she immediately lands and it's
a shot of heels.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
She grew heels in the air and then and we'll
see that as she as she flips out of the
store here in a little.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Bit too, I'd imagine, right, that's probably the same.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
That's where I always notice it.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Till Texas switch.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Can we play killer no kill with Batman here, because
he's gonna kill this guy?

Speaker 3 (59:24):
Yeah, no problem with y'all.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Does he Yes, he kills me, But he's.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
A big guy. He's gonna come out of the hole
later with his hair frazzled, and he's gonna be the
bigger explosion that I remember. He's gonna be charged.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
But amazing gift though, Michael Keaton that the Batman smile,
the wicked Batman smile, the go to gift. But that's
why I mean, like like all this killer old kill talk.
I grew up on these Tim Burton Batman movies were
just killing people, you know. No, if you think about it, though,
the first movie, he the only person he kills is
the Joker, and it's really the Jokers, you know. Yeah, yeah,

(01:00:02):
but this one he's just kind of setting people on fire,
blowing stuff. But hey, I like this though. I like
the penguin and him having this like standoff here, outstanding
there stuff all tho, this is the this is like
the James Bond scene where like Bond shows up and
they have to be civil to each other.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
Right you know, yeah, well you're saying the other stage, Yeah, yeah,
this is this is where Batman and Penguin should go
play golf for ten minutes? Is that on golf and
all that? Yeah, direct approached. The smoke behind Batman looks
so damn good, like this is like every frame of this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Well, they're just trying to hide they're at the same
exact set. They were just that really mad. That's the
real smoke. No, it's fantastic. The things change, right, iconic ic,
iconic lions in this. I don't even know what they're
talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
This is incredible. Daisy Boots yeah, meow oh yeah, is
that her? Do we think that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
You know what they should do? They won't, but you know,
they should do a digital face replacement on her the
way they did an Terminator two. There's a famous Satten
Terminator two where Arnold, like Arnold stump double, I should say,
takes John Connor off the little bike and puts on
the big bike and it was clearly not Arnold for
like thirty years, and James Cameron did a face replacement finally,
re released Terminator two and three D do that for that?

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Who cares? Right, I don't know. Then he's gonna wind
up cleaning up the rest of this everything else I'm
gonna talk about in this commentary that can we fix
the Yeah, yeah, can get the guy's hand out? That true?

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
No, I I do love these movies, all three of them.
The fourth one. I I've watched Batman Forever so less
time than the other three, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
That.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
And Robin excuse me, Yeah, I mean that the Alfred
stuff and then how they offered stuff and that's great, Chris,
But I'm like, man like Arnold could have been a
great mister Freeze, but in a different in a different approach.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Maybe it's still it's silly, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
To think that these were all in the same franchises insane,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
Well, like an interesting thing too, that that the first
three I think do is like they've got a cast
that compliments the material, whereas I think they went so
quickly into Batman Robbin that they're like, let's just do
Forever again, and it's like you don't have like the
world's biggest movie star comedian this time, Like you've gotta
adjust what you're going for here a little bit, you know. Yeah,

(01:02:40):
And it's as much as we all love the comedic
stylings of Victor Freeze, and it's.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
Still not even Batman forever again. It's like it all
is a little more plastic. It's all a little more
you know, slap together.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
It's all well, the plot is beat for beat the same, right,
and the soul is the score, you know, but like
the characters different, you know. It's like the the nerdy
character becomes the big one and then the established villain,
you know, and the thing at the end and the.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Plot, Oh we should talk about score a little bit here,
but this is a sexy sexy as hell till till
he kills her. So, by the way, that's another kill
if we're doing this. You know, he didn't know sster life. Apparently,

(01:03:30):
what was I gonna say? Oh this the score in
Batman and Robin is the craziest version of like can
we just needle drop the first movie or you know,
the last one? But like this is I think the
first sequel that Elfman does that does in his career,
and it starts a weird trend that I love for
him of like when he does sequels when he does

(01:03:51):
the first sequel, he does the same theme but adds
like a quiet to it. Yeah, same as Spider Man's
here Spider Man Men in Black. There maybe some other versions,
and then he doesn't get to do it for the
third but but against Men in Black, like he starts
adding like electric guitar in the third one, like it's
just a weird thing for him of just like again

(01:04:13):
kind of like an artist going back to the painting
spirals or stitched ladies or whatever. But it's like, yeah,
it's cool. It's it's it's his go to of like,
how do I improve this last time? Well, let's just
add these elements to it. He's now in as close
to like full Burgess Meredith comic book mode as we're

(01:04:33):
going to get for this Penguin.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
Yeah until until.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Well, yeah, couldn't do anything about that those eye circles apparently.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
But not enough makeup.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Here's should be.

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
I wonder if they tried. I would love to know
if they even tried and they couldn't reach it. Deal
with Robert Wool or if it was like it is.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
Robert Wold tells that he just was surprised they didn't
call him back because you know what.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Yeah, that would have been, but I mean you would
have to expand that role, you know, I mean which yeah,
which is which Coup might have helped because this movie
is it's we all love it, but it's kind of
light on the plot. It's just stuff happening, right, I
mean for for a.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Very confusing plot, it is light too.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
You're right, Well, you see he has this power plant
you see right?

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Oh did they talk about it a lot really just
the once but it actually.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
I love I just this is again politics, reaching out
to people, touching people, growing people. Politics.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
What okay, Chris, what is this type of shot called
where she is in focus really close to us. There's
a lot of obscured, out of focused stuff and then
he isn't focus in the background. It's a great question.
I don't know the answer that it's the split diopter
split tie. It's it's a Orson Wells reference.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Robert Wise did it because he was his protege?

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
Yeah, what's his name? Mission impossible? First mission impossible? De
Palma does it a lot?

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Oh to Palma?

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
Yeah, And you can't do it in camera, right, It's.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Well, you have to have a certain kind of like
special lens, and then there's always that kind of like
waxy middle Ground and it's some Star Trek. The motion
picture does it a lot too, Robert Wise, So that's
how I.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
Know what it is. Robert Wise.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
He was also orson Wells Editor. I'll have you know,
Matt did not know that that's cool. Just the pussy
I've been looking an exactly like this is unhinged dialogue.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
So my parents showed this to me when I was
four or five years old something like that, and like,
I was such a big Batman fan and had all
the like toys and stuff that like it was undeniable
that I wanted to see this. So when it came
out and VHS there, I basically just like, so a
lot of people think this is scary, So if you
want to turn this off, we can. But they showed

(01:07:07):
it to me on like a Sunday afternoon, and I
remember thinking, I truly remember thinking that was such a
silly thing for my mother to be, like, I'm like,
Batman's here, It'll be fine, you know, like my my
friend Batman will protect me through this movie. And I
loved it, Like this this did not scare me as
a kid. No, that's not to understand Scentator. That's not
the problem. That's not the two of them scary, but scary,

(01:07:29):
was it? It was a complaint from this too, right
besides just being way too horny.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
There is a jump scare at the end, we see
Max Shrek's burned face.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
It's scared by all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
Was a kid Like that's a hide behind the couch moment.
When I was a kid, I knew it was coming.
It was really scary. But this stuff is just like it.
I mean, look, it's just want more adult or whatever.
But like it's why there's no place in a in
a blockbuster Batman film coming out of June. There's like
toys to a McDonald's.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
And if you're afraid of BDSM, this is not the
movie for you. This the fact that she did this bird.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Michelle Pfeiffer actually put this bird in her mouth, puts
up burd in her mouth. That's why she gets the
Oscar Chris your point, that's why she gets the Oscard
DiCaprio eating that liver. This was a thing that this
is actually very much like the sixties sixth Show because
like she has a cat, you know, and they're threatening

(01:08:22):
the cat. So like that's as as this is the
sixty sixth show through a very dark.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
Scratch up their eyes. Well, when we get really bored,
I can talk to you about the premise of my
term paper in college about this movie. But it kills
it very much into that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
How many of us did this when we're kids like
put our even now as adults, you're lay on the
bed and you put your hands up and make the bat.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
When your plan is for me?

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
Yeah, I mean it wasn't just how did you get
those blueprints? By the way, the batmobile nobody knows. Somebody cares.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
It's well, you know he had to follow the patents.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
It was mister Reese from The Dark Knight following up.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, someone someone did the diligence enterprises. This
is just bizarre cleaning yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Yeah again, too far, Tim, Yeah, she's not a cat,
he's not a penguin. I understand killing it, but I
mean it's amazing, but like, what are we doing?

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
There's something about her lipstick on her chin too that
just makes it even more like even more unhinged.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
I I eat to I think these carrots are pretzels. Anyway,
I eat them like this because of this movie, but.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
Just resentfully.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
Yeah, I always think they're little baby carrots. But I
don't know. Again the power move of the giant TV.

Speaker 3 (01:09:39):
I want to see Bruce Wayne's laser I think you're sorry,
which is surely Bruce Wayne has a large laser disc
collection somewhere.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
Do you think he's ever seen a movie?

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
No, that's that's what. Has he watched them? As a
different question?

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
Yeah, okay, fair enough? All for it's got a fantastic relationship.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
This is like a weird maybe thing in the future.
But like, should they ever adopt a kid, they want
to make sure they've got some movies around. It would
never have Did I say kid, I meant a college student?

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Yeah, there you go, I did Grayson College.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
I meant thirty year old, eighteen year old. I love this.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
Then both of them commenting on these headlines about Batman
and Catwoman, beauch risk, catastphe, all these ridiculous headlines.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
What's the uh what's the poundage that the papers estimated
count that she was offended?

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
You weigh a little more than one hundred and eight Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
But this is like this is second version of Selena,
Like she looks so damn good here, there's that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:56):
There's that other version we were talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
Kind of a dark side, don't you over than nearest?

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Bruce Alfred's cold ready to go. You know, Alfred has
almost as many scenes in this movie as as Bruce
Wayne does. That's true.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
Little Commissioner Gordon.

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
More scenes. I think that reporter has got more scenes
than Commissioner.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
He already has more lions.

Speaker 3 (01:11:19):
Yeah, Michael Keaton's bad eyebrows, you guys, and now they're
so perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
You know this this tit here, this red and white tip.
We've seen it in almost every scene in the film,
by the way, like in.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
The town square there would tell you in the background.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
I love this. Push the button. The lights turn out
of the push the button. Oh wait, that's wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:11:42):
Did you guys know this is the original Buffy the
Vampire Slayer. Goddamn all because the ice Princess, the red triangle.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
Yea, all because Batman doesn't retrieve his gear, right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
It then becomes a big thing in the comic thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
this like this their relationship here buys all of birds
of prey for me, Like, yes, of course they this

(01:12:21):
is kind of the sexiest thing that's ever been in
the superhero movie ever. And I love that it more
or less starts the spin off many years later, and
that the that the Catwoman stand in that they get
in Birds of Prey is meant to be a Michelle
five for a time is very to me.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
The boyfriend sure or whatever? Girl oh man. Now they
dated in real life, but before this, right, Michael Keaton
Michelle five or after you both, I don't know, but
it was definitely before. Yeah, so they already had some
some pre existing real life chemistry, but you have the

(01:13:05):
chemistry here is a plus un real.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
How do we feel about invoking Vicky the two times
that we do in those you know it? And it's
it's the who let Vicky vllen to the back Cave
to Alfred?

Speaker 3 (01:13:30):
Yeah, it always kind of as a kid, it always
kind of bummed me out that the characters just kind
of come and go from these.

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
Movies, like right, the Bond Girl of Yeah, but I
think that's what it is though.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
I think it's that's the temple, just like Indiana Jones
is the template James Bond, next movie, next girl, next movie,
next girl. Right, Batman doesn't have a little Slane so
it kind of it does track. I'm glad they mentioned her.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Yeah at least. Yeah. Yeah, it stitches it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
And they address Alfred lighting her in the back cave.

Speaker 3 (01:13:56):
Yeah, stitches it together, as they do and for ever.
When he says something about spandex.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
Or she says skin skin tide vinyl and WI she
says skin type vinyl and a whip. Yeah, so strong women.
I've done my homework. So I think stitching the movies together.

Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
Is your parents are murdered by mediac. Yes they were.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
You brought up his eyebrows, But I feel like they
had one eyebrown makeup artist on this movie. That person
did everyone, because like they both have like that crazy
arched eyebrow in this scene see this too, the kind
of discovering their scars. This is why secret I didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
These are fun, you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
Know, even with these fucking weirdos on her arm? Yeah,
mm hmm. Which why does Batman have nap.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
This Batman blowing people throwing napalm at women? Come on?

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
Here? Could have been knocks? Could have been knocks, could be.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
Knocks hashtag could have been knocks? Dressing room discounts is
one lion?

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
Right? Oh? Yeah, no, no, no says anything.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
For our discussion earlier, so we have three Commissioner Gordon Lions.

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
Reporter asked some one question.

Speaker 2 (01:15:20):
The dresser pat Hingel. You know he's actually a good actor.
These movies really did him a lot of the service.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
Oh but he's so fun well, yeah, just because he
doesn't have like meat, especially especially returns.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
He literally has four freaking lines. I mean, not everybody, look,
not every Batman history is gonna have Gordon plays a
huge role. But the fact that he's in four movies
and he just does funk all he is born to do,
sadly and badman and Robin right, This is.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
So funny though, that him him dealing with both the
psychopaths Alfred. Yeah, no one can can a sentence the
dirty lime sprung to.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
Mind and also Bruce never knowing which way to go back.

Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
I suggest this way is, yeah, Michael goff Is.

Speaker 2 (01:16:10):
He's his mind is on other things. Michael goff Man
probably the best alp Ford.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
I don't know. There's so many good Alfreds, you know,
I think so yeah, there are. I think you've said
this before his act but like, we don't have a
bad Alfred them, Like even even.

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
Alan Napier from the sixty six show.

Speaker 3 (01:16:25):
Right, yeah, who suited up as Batman.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
That's right, that's right. He had a mustache choos. He
gets a leg up on all these guys. I don't
understand the aversion to live action Alfred saving mustaches and
you know, talk connective tissue. Matt Ian Abercrombie is playing
this Alfred.

Speaker 1 (01:16:43):
That's true, basic point, good point, and equally charming.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
Yes and fun. I'll pick this one today is chooses
anyway and then and again the juxtaposition of him, he
has all these suits and he's picking all this perfect,
perfected up and she's cheating. Whenever I'm running late for
something trying to like get ready in my car, I
think of the scene of Sleena Kyle and her beetle,
like just throwing ship everywhere and trying to get I.

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
Would responsibly pull over, but that, you know whatever, How
does she slink into that thing in this Ali watch? Oh,
this is the alley. This is the alley. This is
the alley that will pop up on many an episodes
of Birds Break.

Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
Like the set design. We got a lot of the
posters for Cobo pot shields. The shields is cool. That's
a cool addition specific to these two movies that the
car yeah, yeah, yeah, because you think some asshole will
just come mess with the Batman will.

Speaker 3 (01:17:38):
If you leave it as they do. The shields apparently
are not great enough though, because.

Speaker 2 (01:17:44):
Because well they have their little funny circus thing.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
You know, they'll push the button and then oh, that's
how you'll know who Doug Jones is. He's the guy
that puts the little.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
Oh the thing on the batmobile the Batman can punch
to the floor of the car.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
Yeah, he's the bald one in the back there is.
It is weird that the Red Triangle Circus gang is
dressed like the village people.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
I like how they feel they need to keep putting
on these these bald hats, even.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
Their clowns, right, even though they're not doing this.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
What an iconic Batman shot there though, of him looking
over the crowd like that's apel. I feel like that
was in the Birds of Prey promo.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
It was.

Speaker 3 (01:18:28):
I feel like it was, which is a really cool promo.
By the way, I would like to see that in
higher resolution.

Speaker 2 (01:18:37):
Well, we can try and re edit it together if
you want, but I don't think.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
I mean, we can cover that when we cover the
under pilot or something.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
I think it's locked into three sixty. I I think
it's look at these guys, look at the see But
because of the universe they've created that nonsense works that
would not work in the Nolan movies. These assholes.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
Yeah, breaking into the Battle of the Table film, look
At So High. This movie, I think, more than any other,
gives us a lot of good Batman fighting people on
rooftop stuff. Okay, like this movie loves a Batman on

(01:19:19):
a rooftop.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
I see what you're saying, and I agree with the location.
But Batman has never looked less like a martial arts
express kiss moving, you know what I'm saying, Yes, but
no the environments, yes, but.

Speaker 1 (01:19:38):
Again, this is a director who is here for the imagery,
who will deliver you the imagery. And maybe sometimes the
actors will move, but no him moving around in the
shadows here and the great the way he comes down
the stair in a second, there's Doug Johnson. There is
the way he comes down from the little this He's
gonna come off this ladder in such like a Batman

(01:19:58):
weird way, and it's because he like turn around but
looks so cool. The way the cape follows into this
movie really starts to the Yeah, the many faces of
Gotham City are present in this movie and then hyped up.
But just the fact that there is like this sculptural
human body architecture all over Gotham starts here. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:22):
People think it's Schumacher. It's here.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
No, yeah, Shuemacker Schumacher like everything else, amps it up
to infinity fifteen. Yeah, and takes it from almost black
and white to hey, super cool.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
And look she hit the button and the tree turned on.
See she did her job.

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
She did it in all these bad okay, other weird thing.
Batman just called a bullet in his mouth? That the
fest thing. Final line, Yes, what happens there?

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
Yes, he's got He's got a bullet in his mouth
before goes back.

Speaker 1 (01:21:02):
The first time I saw this on a big screen,
I'm like, holy ship, is that what just happened? And
I'm pretty sure And they don't make a big deal
about it because I think they realized it's really stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
That's an asventurer gag. That's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:21:14):
I have outside outside the the car.

Speaker 2 (01:21:20):
That's hilarious. I'll have to rewatch this. This scene and
see that again, but again so hot, this lick, I mean,
and the mistletoe saying right, this is iconic dialogue forever and.

Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
Carrying on, you know, kind of cementing a tradition of
making up dumb phrases for Batman.

Speaker 3 (01:21:40):
Movie, and and there's pieces from this and that promo
as well.

Speaker 1 (01:21:45):
Yes, her, Yeah, maybe you should retire. Oh my god,
she's so.

Speaker 2 (01:21:51):
So she's your favorite cab woman.

Speaker 3 (01:21:55):
I mean, why do you go.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
We have a lot of great cat I think a badman.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
Much like yeah, with the exception you know, Halle Berry things.
It's undo as far as Selena Kyles and sixty six go,
if we're gonna call them Selena Kyle's like that, Zoe
Kravitz awesome. Anne Hathaway. Surprisingly, I really.

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
Like Hathaway because she's not a zombie resurrected by cats.
Like maybe she gets the edge from me, But as
far as the impact of her as performance and stuff,
you can't deny this.

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
So it's tough, that is what I'm saying. Much like
the bat nipples, that doesn't affect me in the least.

Speaker 3 (01:22:29):
Chris, there's to me, there is absolutely no argument. It's
like everybody else is down here, and then Michelle Fifer
is just way about that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:37):
I never noticed the village. People think Matt before the.

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
America got this like native American lady with the head dress.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
Oh you guys man, it's tough. You see, I'm finding
myself done about the comic accuracy. Think. I'm like, well,
you know, Anne Hathaway is a lot more like the
cat burglar Selena Carr for on my comics. But I'm like,
this performance is unmatched. Yeah, yeah, it's tough to me.
It's then too, it's it's really tough. But I think
maybe because I was so surprised by Anne Hathaway, how
incredible she was in that film, and she's my favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
Part of and in that movie. Yeah, she's so good.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
I talk a lot of shit about Rises and it's
not as good as the other two, but like she
is a plus.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
M h. This is a weird thing that's like only
present in this scene and maybe a few others. But
Catwoman's got the the taser hooked onto her boot in
this scene and when she's like gonna be check. Yeah,
but it's just like you don't, like, none of the

(01:23:32):
toys do this. You don't. I don't think I've ever
seen a cosplayer do it, but like she does occasionally
have the taser on her even though she doesn't use
it till the end.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
I do you know her the Catvileman toy came with
a whip. I don't. I must have lost that whip
when I was a kid somewhere because oh yeah, but
that was her action. That's that same window the Batman
and Cavil Rat by the way, the window.

Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
Penguin inventing the Manisphere. Here this like, I don't want
to redo of this. I know it doesn't look great,
but it's cool. Yeah. No, that pain it's like a
velvet Elvis pain and boo. I've seen so much fan

(01:24:22):
art two of that moment where she's kind of got
like a drugged out baby doll look on her face.
It's like the hair popping out and stuff like. I
think that's a moment that really reflects for people.

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
Batman just just just like summer something, back into his
normal costume. No, the the imagery here is iconic, was
no doubt about it. I'm Matt, I'm glad we grew
up at the age that we did. And Chris you
as well, like you know coming out when these movies
came out, right, if we were older, I feel like
all these changes would have been very upsetting to us.

Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
What do you like? How Ah, Forever it's different than Returns.

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
When I was a kid, Forever was my favorite because
I'm like, oh yeah, Jim Carrey and then everything. And
Val Kilmer is criminally underrated as Batman I think. I mean,
Michael Keaton is so good. I think that's the only
problem with Vlkilmers is not Michael Keaton, you know, but
just just looking at this again, thinking about all the
changes in those movies, like we we're the perfect age
to just go with the flow, not.

Speaker 3 (01:25:17):
With whatever, and be happy that we had Batman movies
at all.

Speaker 1 (01:25:21):
Yeah, that we're huge and all we had.

Speaker 3 (01:25:23):
Like today it's like a superhero movie is just coming
out every three or four months, and back then it's
like finally at.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
Every three years. Yeah, this is like again to the
sixty six thing. I think a lot of these first
four movies is basically just doing live you know, really
big budget versions of the sixty six show. But we

(01:25:50):
got a death trap here, like.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
This is there has to be an episode where someone takes.

Speaker 1 (01:25:53):
Some Batman the Penguin steals the battle bill okay and
the Riddler. At one point the Penguins steals it and
puts like umbrellas and penguin symbols on it, and like
Penguin mobile is the batmobile.

Speaker 2 (01:26:05):
Batman putting a CD to take over the search where
the right thought that the firmware is software or whatever?

Speaker 1 (01:26:14):
What year is it? He was just listening to some
atlantis when he drove in.

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
Today's well CD was within Alfred like skipping.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
The it's about to he's using it to record, right,
that's what.

Speaker 2 (01:26:27):
Yeah, it's this exact set.

Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
Yes, yes we don't know that. We don't know that yet,
but we don't know why he's done. Just wants to
play as Susie and the bandsheets while his turn up car.

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
Right, I should have gone with that and look and
not to you know, not not CGI has its place
and big budgets, movies and all that. But I find
like this Batmobile going back down these back lots, hitting
physical cars so much more visceral and satisfying. And seeing
some giant CGI set piece of the Batmobile if they
did it, for example, right, and just.

Speaker 1 (01:26:58):
Seeing the timing of it all work and knowing that
there's like a million guys pulling on cords.

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
This is all synchronized to the last middlesecond.

Speaker 1 (01:27:06):
Yep, it's pretty impressive. Said it like a heart from hell.

Speaker 2 (01:27:11):
And that's the I thought was that CD was finding
this thing. Well, but you're right, Chris, it's him both.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
Yeah, No, he's totally recording.

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):
Yeah, he has a he has a CD R in
his car in nineteen ninety two.

Speaker 1 (01:27:25):
Really glad he never improved on just a plywood bottom.
Apparently he's got.

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
A Flintstones car.

Speaker 1 (01:27:33):
Bluts it through it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
Classic old lady with the yep.

Speaker 1 (01:27:39):
Great. This restraint for it not being a nun is impressive.

Speaker 2 (01:27:43):
You know some days you just can't get rid of
a ball. Right, this is sixty six.

Speaker 1 (01:27:48):
This batmobile is still as cool today as it ever was. Oh,
it's the best, that's the best one. I'm right.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
It's agreed. Yeah, I mean the Birds of Prey promos
use this batmobile, so we all got to agree.

Speaker 1 (01:27:59):
Okay, we don't have to put the stink because you
were get off the show for not having fun.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
I'm just saying it has the steal of approval from
from our show.

Speaker 1 (01:28:08):
Here and here comes this amazing feature.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
Just toys and I'm still here.

Speaker 1 (01:28:17):
The bat missile batmobile.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
Well even he be like, oh, I'm a little worried,
like that little bit of humanity is fun. Oh for
this precise scenario Batman, Batman with prep time, unstoppable.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
Ties, little alley. But no, I mean, look this worst.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
Shot ever in the film. This is the turning the
corner thing.

Speaker 1 (01:28:38):
Yeah, it's strange.

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
Oh man, that's incredible stuff. And then of course, you know,
selling toys everything. People accuse the other movies, like the
next two the schu Marker movies are doing. This movie
is also guilty of it. It just has the veneer
of Tim Burton on top of it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:53):
Oh, it's just got Oh look, Louis, here's a different car.

Speaker 2 (01:28:56):
You know, there's penguins with laser guns and know you
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:29:01):
Yes, yeah, but we've talked about this before too, Zach,
where it's like the Nolan movies do it too. They
just say on rooftop more cinematic, because you know they
work it in Matt.

Speaker 2 (01:29:13):
You're so right, there's always absurd. I mean, maybe the
Dark Knight trilogy even more so. But like there's always
like absurd lines that just become entrenched in puff culture
from these movies, like The Missletoe or any of that stuff.
It's so good. I don't know that stuff, yeah, like
like that's that's that's what makes these so iconic and
and you know, Dance with Devil like like I don't know,
Like there's just something about these movies.

Speaker 1 (01:29:34):
That you put on normal stuff people say to each other,
normal stuff. Michelle Pfeiffer will never look better than she
does in that shot. I think she looks so cool
in this movie. I see in this scene specifically.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
I'm not gonna argue with you, but I'm more of
a Chase Murdy and guy myself. Sure Batman has a
thing for blondes and these movies they're all like girlfriends.
Other than Julie Madison and uh Ja, who also has
more the Vicky vel here were the Vicky Bell talking.

Speaker 3 (01:30:07):
Julie Madison also has more to do than bat Hangle does.

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
Good lord, I mean she at least has two scenes.
Who's ivy like? She has a scene.

Speaker 1 (01:30:18):
Ivy well marriage Well, this set I.

Speaker 2 (01:30:24):
Guess you could see as the set from the first
movie where he's in the library. Whatever. Hilarious. The Alfred's like,
I'll take the stairs, and they basically get there at
the same time with this nonsense boys fantasy batman, like,
oh cool, cool death trap. That's a slide to my
secret layer. And Alfred's like basically there at the same
time as him by taking the stairs.

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
Hilarious first slide into the batcave, not our last.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
Do we like the eighty nine batcave or this batcave?
This was a little more fleshed out this one. If
this one had the computer console from the eighty nine one,
because I feel like that's always like the centerpiece of
the batcave.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
I missed the console for sure, this one and the
Schumacher one, or like the in between there is kind
of my perfect back cave, Like in between there is
kind of the animated series, like that's what.

Speaker 2 (01:31:12):
I want Schumarker with the giant back signal back like
the hanging metal bat just in case you forgot.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
Oh sorry, does he not like theming suddenly coming? Yeah?
Oh he's got it on his stupid CD player here.

Speaker 3 (01:31:28):
In a second, but he DJs it like it's a
vinyl record, Like you can't actually do this with the CD.

Speaker 2 (01:31:36):
People didn't understand Matt exactly. People didn't understand CD. It's
just like in the eighties people didn't understand computers. You
can have Superman three and war games and all people did.
It was magic to people, right, CDs were magic to
people in nineteen ninety two. It's that he's about to
say that.

Speaker 1 (01:31:54):
This is the one annoying thing that bothers me, or like,
I don't know why I'm annoying about this, but I
wish that this was the same the takes of penguins
saying the stuff that they're playing right now. I wish
with the takes from the record the movie that we're
used in the movie is clearly like just like different,
So you know what, it doesn't to be clear, I'm
being annoying. If you watch this for the first time

(01:32:15):
in the movie theater, who cares you watched it the
first five times. Nobody's gonna notice we've watched it now many.

Speaker 2 (01:32:20):
There is this dj oh Matt tying it all together
to what I mentioned earlier. Star Trek six has the
same problem. Craptain Kirk is on trial and they uses
Captain's log against him on the clean on Home World,
and it's like a different take I'll never forget them
for the death of my boy. I'm like, that's not
the same captain's law how you said it, it's more work.
See what Matt and I are asking for is less work.

(01:32:42):
Use the same recording you recorded it again, I don't
understand anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:32:51):
And again now we're just like, yes, it's still a
monster movie, but now we're also just doing straight up
sixty six, like we're just pelting the good.

Speaker 2 (01:32:57):
Well it's kind of self weary. It brings tomatoes speech, yeah,
but perfect that he has an umbrella to.

Speaker 1 (01:33:03):
Shield himself, an armed umbrella. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:33:08):
People a gothm they really turned on people quick.

Speaker 1 (01:33:11):
Well, look what they've been through and.

Speaker 2 (01:33:14):
Now he's shooting at them. So it's this escalated click.

Speaker 1 (01:33:17):
Yeah, this is They're right. They are correct.

Speaker 2 (01:33:20):
Oh hey, talking about referencing earlier movies. Right when he says,
you know, uh, Housewives and the catwom or something gets
a catwo reference? Is Eagle Scouts in a crazy clown?
Is that joker? Or is that red triangle reference? I
think it could go either way, right.

Speaker 1 (01:33:34):
I've never considered that could be a red triangle reference.
I always joker, Yeah, Chris, I.

Speaker 3 (01:33:38):
Always thought Joker. I actually always thought it was a
little confusing and misleading that there's like a red like
a circus gang in this movie.

Speaker 1 (01:33:45):
But there's like it felt to me like they were
like an offshoot of Joker or something, right, because we
did a clown last time. Yeah, yeah, that would make
more sense. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:33:59):
No, the Joker's gang is way cooler with their jackets
and their sunglasses in their boom boxes.

Speaker 1 (01:34:05):
But it is it is hard because again, like everybody's
got their gimmick, right, but what's he gonna have the
penguin squad? You know, like he's he's.

Speaker 3 (01:34:15):
Going to have penguins with rockets strapped to their backs
here in a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:34:19):
The well, you know what as absurd as anything in
the Shoe Mark movies.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
Oh, it is by far the weirdest part of this movie.
But it's also.

Speaker 3 (01:34:31):
Now that was that I think that was Doug Jones, right,
that was Doug.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
Lance. And I quote this a lot, by the way,
is this is this is this when he when when
the guys like killing children?

Speaker 1 (01:34:46):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:34:46):
Is that the scene?

Speaker 1 (01:34:47):
Yes, it's like a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:34:49):
Yeah, my best friend Lances last year. You guys have
heard it always on the small Ville and always on
the arrow shout out. We will quote this like that
little loud No, it's a lot's a go to quote
from us our entire lives. Because yeah, I like how
there's always a Hinchman in a lot of these movies,
like hey, uh, she would be.

Speaker 1 (01:35:08):
Doing this and again't like this. This movie is inventing
new plot like every twenty minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:35:15):
The objective of the characters.

Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
Yeah, it was about a power plant, that, it was
about a mayoral campaign, and now we're doing this like
you know Moses in the Nile thing there is turns around,
look sative. This guy, I like, whoever this guy is
just shoots. That's his only line too, right, Yeah, Like
I feel like he's bigger in this movie, but it's
mostly because his body is underwater.

Speaker 2 (01:35:38):
Later Oh yeah, and it does set up that later
on with he has the gun. It's good point.

Speaker 1 (01:35:46):
Do you remember the thing or seeing the thing somewhere where?
Like they refrigerated all these sets because some of these
penguins are stan Winston poppets, some of them are little
people in suits, and some of them are actual penguins,
so they had to refrigerate the set. But apparently like
shooting this movie in the summer in Burbank, the penguins
had such a good time that they started mating the

(01:36:06):
sign of like they're comfortable. No way, yeah, Like penguin
babies were boring out of their work on return success.

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
Also my logic when I was younger going to parties,
Bruce Wayn's or wait, Selena Kyle might be there, right,
that's where I we go.

Speaker 3 (01:36:26):
I like to go with the leaning Tower of Pisa
on his head.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
He's cool. Here is awesome. There's one in the making
of book that they put out in the nineties. There
was one that is it's the Sinking Titanic and the Iceberg.
No way, yeah, great stuff. I do think, sorry to
be musical minute guy. Here we're about to see Selena

(01:36:53):
revealed by a like skull devil. I think it is
a direct reference to Fantom of the Opera.

Speaker 2 (01:37:01):
The musical coming down the Stairs a masquerade. During a masquerade,
you know who will be perfect to directing a fam
of the Opera movie.

Speaker 1 (01:37:06):
Ironically, Tim Burton perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:37:08):
Although I enjoyed the Joel Schumacher one. I'm just saying, yeah,
there's there's a shot you're talking about, Matt.

Speaker 1 (01:37:14):
How about second choice? Tim Burton in the nineties.

Speaker 2 (01:37:16):
Right, Well, I would if they did Tim Burton and
they gave him like the book, like not the Andreloyd
Reber musical, but like the book. Hey go make this
Tim Burton, I would.

Speaker 1 (01:37:22):
Like I think he'd be per everyone. Sure, yeah, he's great.

Speaker 2 (01:37:25):
But this is a genius thing like the two people
who dress up and mass are at the masquerade party
as themselves, Like I don't know, I don't know who
came up with that concept.

Speaker 1 (01:37:33):
A plus, this is the Yeah, this is the coolest
like kind of character unspoken thing in this whole movie.
And this scene is probably my favorite scene in this movie.
They're both to your oscar thing like this is this
also gets her the oscar too, this scene, that's just
she's just unhinged in those What would your outfit to

(01:37:56):
the max Garade ball be? Because oh, I.

Speaker 2 (01:38:00):
Mean I go to my Clark. Can't just the suit
open shirt with the Superman.

Speaker 1 (01:38:04):
What big dumb thing are you going to put in
your head? Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:38:07):
I see, I'm gonna do the Chris Tucker fifth element.

Speaker 2 (01:38:14):
That's ha, man, What what's absurd thing? Maybe like a
traffic cone? I don't know. Yeah, I'm just thinking what
that's tough. What about you, Matt, What do you got.

Speaker 1 (01:38:27):
I'm trying to think of like a landmark that I like,
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:38:30):
Know, like, oh okay, okay, okay, yeah, I do building man, Okay,
oh I like that again. The codical structure is what
I'm going for, apparently.

Speaker 1 (01:38:40):
But I'll do the elevator from the Warner Brothers store
from New York that had Superman lifting it. If you remember,
it was on the side of the building and it
was like a glass opening, so they had a little
statue of super not little big ass statue of Superman
lifting the elevator up and down.

Speaker 2 (01:38:57):
Michael Keaton's eyes here what oh oh?

Speaker 1 (01:39:01):
And her her losing it, the veins on her face
like she's got great vein acting.

Speaker 2 (01:39:07):
She is right, She's like, don't tell me the killing
Maxwell and solve anything.

Speaker 1 (01:39:10):
Because you know it will.

Speaker 2 (01:39:12):
She's right.

Speaker 1 (01:39:15):
But we just went from her like propositioning like you
want to fuck at this party to like, oh, I'm
here to kill a guy. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:39:22):
If you ever need the crazy hot scale and full effects,
it's there.

Speaker 1 (01:39:25):
It is. Yeah. Yeah, that moment where she's like putting
her hand on her face and so it's so cool.
One of the well I shouldn't talk about. One of
the funniest costumes I ever saw at the party was
there's the Smokehouse out here in the Burr Bank and

(01:39:49):
next to Warner Brothers. And someone came to a party
as as the neon sign for this restaurant, the Smokehouse,
and brought the like famous garlic bread from there, brought
like five bags of the garlic bro it was like,
and they get out to people. It's very funny. I
can't believe I talked about that over this time.

Speaker 2 (01:40:04):
That's how you win the party. Does this mean we
have to start fighting?

Speaker 1 (01:40:07):
I love that the best her her little realization shot
was totally a wallpaper on one of my laptops. That's
a kid at some point.

Speaker 2 (01:40:21):
No, I think you guys are right about it. If
you gave an Oscar to somebody, it would be her
in this film. I mean to talk. I mean we
could slide some small birds of prey talk right there.
There was always this talk about making a cat move
and spinoff film with her, which eventually became that halle
Berry film, which is its own thing. Had they done that,
I don't think he would have got a Birds of Prey.
I don't know what do you guys think.

Speaker 1 (01:40:43):
Birds of pre TV show? Maybe not, or they wouldn't
have allowed it to be connected to the movies at
all or something.

Speaker 2 (01:40:49):
Yeah, but it's not. I mean, I guess, like I mean,
there's Batman, Bevan Returns, and then you branch off into
like sure, Birds of Prey World, Batman Forever World, the
Batman comic books, seventy nine comics worlds.

Speaker 1 (01:41:02):
Right, are you saying, like the multiverse branch Yeah, yeah,
basically yeah. I also think if the if the that
original film franchise hadn't kind of crashed and burned at
the time, Birds of Prey wouldn't have happened. Like yeah,
like you know, again it was not a successful TV

(01:41:22):
series unfortunately, but like kind of like Smallville was meant
to be the like, can we reclaim a little bit
of this character on TV first, and then we'll do
a movie soon? You know, I love the character, but
this world for Birds of Praise.

Speaker 2 (01:41:35):
Left how to put the top ad on top of
the penguin?

Speaker 1 (01:41:40):
And and Chip is here is the little Prince? I
guess good old Chip, I don't so no, have you
guys seen the is it Monda the poster company hmm

(01:42:02):
online that does their own art and stuff. Yeah, I
don't know if it was a poster or for like
they do also like re issues of vinyl soundtracks and
stuff from movies. But they did a piece of art
that was Bruce and Selena. It's the shot like from
the Mistletoes perspective on the dance floor there where like
oh okay, he's got he's like kissing her neck or
something and she's just like looking up, kind of like

(01:42:23):
out of it. It's the coolest little piece of art
you've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (01:42:27):
I love this big one. I think that's that's animatronic.

Speaker 1 (01:42:32):
But no, totally.

Speaker 2 (01:42:33):
Mondo does great. So I think they're also associated with
Alma Drafthouse, I think as well. So they put out
some good stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:42:39):
Oh that's interesting. I didn't realize that.

Speaker 2 (01:42:41):
I never body in their stuff, but I always like
right click and save them and I'm like, okay, I'll
look at this one day and but they'll put a.

Speaker 1 (01:42:46):
Smile on my face. Goes in the cool stuff album
on your computer. Yeah, yeah, I got a guy in
a cage. We got vicious chemical like we're we're doing
we're doing just straight up comic bookies.

Speaker 2 (01:43:00):
Now that's the thing, Like, have they just not gone
quite as far with all this stuff? Dialed it back
ten to fifteen percent. We could have gotten more Tim
Burton Batman movies because he was actually if you've listened
to his interviews in the comments. By the way, I'm
sure if you're listening to this podcast, you probably own
the Batman anthology Blue raisor DVDs if you don't go
buy them immediately. Amazing special features, all behind the scenes stuff,

(01:43:22):
the commentaries, right. But Tim Burton's on there, right, and
he's like, yeah, you know, I was actually really excited
to come back for a third one, and they were like, yeah, Tim,
why don't you Why don't you not? He's like, oh, okay,
but but it's ironic because he didn't want to do this,
but he was excited about continuing and just again thinking
about him continuing to do this and this vibe with
other villains like, oh man, it's so good. But I

(01:43:45):
love Batman forever. I'm so conflicted. It's like Timothy Dalton
and Pierce Brosn and James Bond. I love them both,
So I'm conflicted, like, who did I want to be
for longer. It's tough man. This shot of Batman coming up,
ah cool, iconic, and that's straight out of sixty six
as well. Literally a show.

Speaker 1 (01:44:03):
Do you remember the one time that Adam West did
this in six?

Speaker 2 (01:44:08):
It is incredible. I don't we We're so far away
from it now that I don't think people appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:44:12):
But you're so right.

Speaker 2 (01:44:13):
Like these people they watched that show and they were like,
let's take everything we can from that show and put
it through our lens, and it's just it's right here.

Speaker 1 (01:44:23):
That's one of my favorite things about Batman forever that
it's like when the car goes up the side of
the building, it's like they're just doing the rope climbing bit,
you know, like it's the cool version, you know, the
the nineties cool version of the rope climbing bit.

Speaker 2 (01:44:34):
I love this note from Batman. That's so comic.

Speaker 1 (01:44:36):
Book. I love that he is stationary.

Speaker 2 (01:44:38):
Attaching it to a thief and hanging in front of,
you know, the police station. What a transition to into
Penglin's mouth.

Speaker 1 (01:44:47):
My penguins.

Speaker 2 (01:44:51):
Yeah, you're you're right. The plot just keeps changing.

Speaker 1 (01:44:54):
Whatever we're doing now we're.

Speaker 2 (01:44:56):
Going we're from kidnapping children to now we're just gonna
nuke the town.

Speaker 1 (01:45:02):
Oh what I heard? The sexes are equal if they're
rotchiness like what?

Speaker 2 (01:45:09):
Like these movies? I would love to walk around these sets,
you guys walking around this this Penguin amphitheater Zeus set.

Speaker 1 (01:45:17):
You know, have you guys ever been able to see
this in a movie theater, like on the big screen?

Speaker 2 (01:45:22):
I have so one of the local theaters they show
all movies like at midnight's on the weekends, and a
few years back, around Christmas time, they showed Batman Returned
Someone with the Buddy and we went and I enjoyed it.
You know, when people go to that, they're all they're
dialed in already, so people are laughing in all the
right moments, and it's just it's a great experience. So
I'm very fortunate to have been able to.

Speaker 3 (01:45:39):
Yes, I haven't, but August twenty fifth, Dolby Cinemas is
doing I read was doing Batman and Batman Returns and
all the Dolby theaters.

Speaker 1 (01:45:50):
So cool. Okay, that's exciting. I The thing I like
about it's what you said, Zach, Like everyone going to
this already loves this and is laughing out loud that
like the EROSIONA Sons Live, the Unlimited Poon Tang or
whatever other weird little lines.

Speaker 2 (01:46:09):
What do we think of the bad ski Boat?

Speaker 3 (01:46:13):
I think it's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:46:16):
Yeah, it's no stupider than anything else. Oh no, it
looks cool.

Speaker 2 (01:46:20):
I have no strong opinions about it. I'm glad that
Michael Keting got nother cool vehicle because I love the
aesthetic of all his vehicles. In the flash to the
new Batwing that you think the nerves like why is
it look different? But actually love that because it fits
all these other vehicles and the aesthetic of it. Also,
I why would Batman need this? And how often? How

(01:46:40):
how how convenient that he's fighting someone in the sewers.

Speaker 1 (01:46:44):
That's my only question about it, of like when else boat?

Speaker 3 (01:46:49):
But yeah, when else?

Speaker 1 (01:46:50):
Did he use it? Right? Exactly?

Speaker 2 (01:46:53):
But but if you think about you know, Val Kilmer's
bat boat that Robin drives like that couldn't go through
the sewers like this, like that's why they call it
the ski boat. But again, it's just sell toys. It's
all the ship people talk shit about the Schumacker movies.
For this movie is so guilty of it, which is
and I'm not complaining, I'm just putting it out. Like
he has different vehicles, you know, the vehicles. Yeah, the

(01:47:14):
the absurd stuff of the end.

Speaker 1 (01:47:16):
Yeah, we don't do two suits yet, but that's that
starts in the next one.

Speaker 2 (01:47:20):
Yeah, these little penguins, the ship rockets at him.

Speaker 1 (01:47:27):
They look so cute here around cos I had I
remember where the arm and stuff is so funny.

Speaker 2 (01:47:37):
The making of Special which I watched on the DVDs,
and also I think I watched back in the day
when I was a kid. They were so proud of
themselves because CGI was new, Like, look, we programmed these
penguins stall. We have like seven different movements and they're
all independent of each other, like and you can't tell
the difference between like the cop They basically did a
lot of copy and pasting and and it works, like
I don't, I don't look at this and and like wha,

(01:47:57):
that's fake or this.

Speaker 1 (01:47:58):
Is this is all real? This all most real penguins.

Speaker 2 (01:48:01):
I think it's that super wide.

Speaker 1 (01:48:04):
Yes, yeah, we're fun to watch movies, but never.

Speaker 2 (01:48:10):
Again will you will Superhero film be like this? I
appreciate this, my friends.

Speaker 1 (01:48:15):
Oh, I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:48:18):
Penguins are converging on the city.

Speaker 1 (01:48:23):
It's funny to watch in some of those behind the
scenes things too that you're talking about, Zach, I just
like watch this stuff being shot because like they're you know,
it's not like they have lines or anything, so it's
just their trainers on the other side of the set
going come here, come here, and they've all got fish
in their hands, just like ready to give about. The
whole thing is just like walk over here and you'll
get fed. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:48:43):
I love that moment a second ago when the goggles
flipped down on the piguins.

Speaker 1 (01:48:47):
Yeah, down fire, he's gotta scope out.

Speaker 2 (01:48:53):
DJ alf are just saving the day here again.

Speaker 1 (01:48:55):
Yeah, dumbest things Alfred had to do in a while,
but great job. Yeah, this is this is where this
movie is just like truly unhinged and same. So I
took a film criticism or art criticism class really and
for like the final paper in college was like find

(01:49:18):
something you love and do a critic like do a
full evaluation of it, doesn't matter what it is. And
the whole thing that my professor had been pushing is
just like like have a strong take and back it
up with evidence. So my paper became about like how
you can track who the hero of the story in
the villains of it are based on how they treat

(01:49:39):
their animal counterparts. So like like catwoman a has all
their cats and feeds them and what you know, gives
gives them milk straight out of her taking a sip
or whatever, and is affronted by the Shrek's Department store
logo and like blows it up for bastardizing cats. Whereas
like Penguin is like sending his penguins out to be killed.

(01:50:00):
You know, He's got his kamakazi penguins going out there.

Speaker 2 (01:50:05):
And Batman just keeps always think about Batman has some
bats in the ski boat, right because he releases them
or whatever. Yeah, you know, hey shout out though, Like
I want to point this out. I felt sorry for
Penguin here because all his people who are like leaving him.
It's sad, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:50:22):
He's just trying to kind of destroy everybody in this Yeah,
but he could nap children about forty minutes ago.

Speaker 2 (01:50:28):
But it's yeah, yeah, but look, it is sad. When
he dies and the penguins are like, you know, the funeral.

Speaker 1 (01:50:34):
And all that.

Speaker 2 (01:50:34):
That's sad that stuff stick was stuck with me as
a kid. So I love this cockpit shot of Batman too.
And this is the cockpit of the ski boat.

Speaker 1 (01:50:43):
Looks awesome. Yeah, yeah, there's spraying water on the Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:50:49):
So that this is a problem with with the Michael
Keaton movies, Like he really can't have a physical battle
with these actually any of these him.

Speaker 1 (01:50:57):
Bending down in the cockpit here too, like like he can't.

Speaker 2 (01:50:59):
Oh he that's a great call out, but like, come on,
not that John Nicholson Joker had a chance against Batman,
but certainly Danity Vetos being there's no chance to fight.

Speaker 1 (01:51:11):
You don't buy this fight coming up. He's got the
higher ground.

Speaker 2 (01:51:16):
I have a genuine freak.

Speaker 1 (01:51:17):
You have to wear a mask.

Speaker 2 (01:51:22):
What do you think about the Michael Kean's Batman voice perfection,
Like he invented the difference of the voices.

Speaker 1 (01:51:30):
Yeah, I think people don't give him credit for that.
I think people first noticed it with you know, Christian
Bale a because Christian Bale went farther ahead and has
more lines. But like part of it is like he's
smart to keep his Batman as silent as possible.

Speaker 2 (01:51:45):
Like this scene right, the shots of his eyes, the
intensity the monster.

Speaker 1 (01:51:48):
Light on his eyes just there like the old Bella
Licosa light is so cool.

Speaker 2 (01:51:53):
Christian Beale sounds fine, and Batman begins, by the way,
but Dark Knight and rises just absurd, absurd over there,
that kind of stuff anyway, Keten Keaton, Drullblazer for this
for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:52:04):
Yeah. And it's crazy to think too that, Like, at
the same time this is happening, They're they're cooking up
the animated series and they're casting Kevin Kahn, right, you
know they truly what a great time to be a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:52:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:52:18):
Oh, there goes the goggles flipping down again.

Speaker 2 (01:52:21):
Yep, there's them keeps and to kill his villains. I
won't kill you, but I don't have to save you.

Speaker 1 (01:52:29):
Mh. Killer. Awesome stunt too, by the way, Yeah, stunt Penguin.

Speaker 2 (01:52:38):
Destroying the room, very high fall. Iconic shot there, Batman
turning out on the explosion.

Speaker 1 (01:52:43):
Yeah, this movie does suffer quite a bit from like
I've invented this thing just for this one scenario. The monkey,
the monkey with the key or some of the bat stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:52:57):
Then they like this is this is the end of
Mask of the Face has some sort of with the
theme park falling apart, right, sure, p iconic stuff. I
love theme parks, love abandoned places. So like this is
this is my speed, all this stuff, this is so good.

Speaker 1 (01:53:08):
And again it's a monster movie. It's it's the windmill
getting caught on fire or whatever, you know, and.

Speaker 2 (01:53:14):
It's it's a very small both of these films actually
very small intimate ending. Now, you could argue that the
ending of this film was better because the ending of
Adminity Night famously was just made up on the spot,
like I don't know, I guess, I guess there and
we'll figure it out, fight some henchman. But the emotional
component of the ending here is cab Woman, and that

(01:53:35):
elevates the ending of this film, the climax of this film.
But this is like three characters in an abandoned theme
park that's falling apart, and that's your climaxes.

Speaker 1 (01:53:43):
Three three or four nut jobs battling it out.

Speaker 2 (01:53:47):
Okay, we haven't even talked about this. We should talk
about this, Like they're all mirrors of Batman, Max, Shrek
is the Bruce Waynia, the extreme Catwoman's this split personality
and Cobble Pots the person from privilege and the freak,
so like they're all Batman's best villains are all mirrors
of himself. And that's like people the jokers like you
the coin, I'm like, no, not at all, like Chaos

(01:54:07):
versus Order. Iconic shot here by the way, like this,
this is so cool cool? Who had the Batman? Who
had the Who had the Batman Returns Toy? Wayne manor toy?

Speaker 1 (01:54:23):
I know, well, yes, but I had the animated series redoing.

Speaker 2 (01:54:26):
I had the Returns one, and the back of it
was basically the this like the and the and they
had the bat line, and I kept trying to do
that same move with the toy. It just didn't quite.

Speaker 1 (01:54:36):
Shut up.

Speaker 2 (01:54:38):
When he comes in on the on the wire like that, Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:54:40):
Yeah, do you have the wire to do that?

Speaker 2 (01:54:43):
But it doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:54:45):
It doesn't work right with toys.

Speaker 2 (01:54:47):
But anyway, that not with those toys. All about the
relationship between them two.

Speaker 1 (01:54:50):
Here for sure. Her kind of keeping the whip alive
too as they're doing this is really cool. Just just
everything she's doing, and you.

Speaker 3 (01:54:59):
Know, thinking about Birds of Prey connections again, you guys
notice I'm sure in the in the flashbacks and Birds
of Prey her hair is out. Yeah, so that also
is kind of saying, hey, this is after the end
of Batman Returns.

Speaker 1 (01:55:15):
I never see that you got the suit. But but
but she's got a bit of that look. I make
up make up the disappearing I may.

Speaker 2 (01:55:23):
Which we kept all the way to Batinson. Finally they
embrace the fact that this guy's miss crown his eyes.
Oh you mean the disappearing that flag has and everybody
has it up until Battinson, so they could have they
could have easily edited around that. That's what's so frustrating.
You just start the shot where his arm is in
front of his eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:55:41):
But we're just like everyone else in this movie has
got dark ass Burton eyes. Like. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:55:48):
Also, I kind of love how there's no her look
at Shrek even there's no way to take the cowl off.
He literally has to rip it off.

Speaker 1 (01:55:58):
Yeah, yeah, that is there's no like somewhere. I wonder
he's got so many at the cave, you know, he's
just ripping all this stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:56:07):
Why are you dressed up like Batman? He is Batman
Moore A plus, Uh, Chris, I never thought of it
that way about Birds of Prey though, I always thought like, oh,
that's like a Julie now Moore esque or something cowl
that she had in those promos. But I like your theory.
Now that's the post this movie she's adopted having the
hair out of that.

Speaker 3 (01:56:25):
Yeah, that was always my theory.

Speaker 1 (01:56:29):
I subscribed to that to Chris. I'm glad he brought
it up. I remember I hadn't seen this movie in
a while when Birds of Prey came out and I
watched it, you know, a few episodes into Birds of Prey,
and it was like, oh right, okay, yeah, that is
why she's got their hair. And at the end it's
like that, you know, like I remember kind of making
that same fanboy connection as a kid.

Speaker 2 (01:56:49):
So she is she supernatural? Here? What's what start taking?

Speaker 1 (01:56:54):
She's got?

Speaker 2 (01:56:56):
But that doesn't watch the movie. That's not even a real.

Speaker 1 (01:56:59):
Thing though many humans. Okay, okay, all right, I feel like,
should we start over? Did you not understand the movie?

Speaker 2 (01:57:11):
Oh my god? Oh so cool for kids? Everybody?

Speaker 1 (01:57:18):
Yeah, the weirdest. I like her too, you see the actress, like,
get out of the way here. This movie totally suffers
from that, Like, well, we set up eight cameras, we're
gonna show all.

Speaker 2 (01:57:33):
Every look at this though. These miniatures falling apart is great.

Speaker 1 (01:57:40):
Oh it looks killer.

Speaker 2 (01:57:42):
That just looks dumb. With him with the ripped off cow,
he just looks a monster.

Speaker 1 (01:57:49):
Shot in the shot where he turns around to see penguin, though,
I think he looks killer with the the ripped off.

Speaker 2 (01:57:57):
Just that one earlier for him trying to cover up
his face with the cave half, it just looks but
look at you see his hand, like this is some
good stuff. That shot of him coming up from the
sewer is in the trailer, by the way, m hm,
like from the sewer?

Speaker 1 (01:58:11):
Sure, why not? Just like his shadow climbing up or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:58:15):
I'm trying to Finally, much earlier, wait for here's the
jump scare terrifying when you're six.

Speaker 1 (01:58:25):
Ok, yeah, it's very raiders. Yeah, indye coded.

Speaker 2 (01:58:32):
That is funny. Like see, these movies used to be intense.

Speaker 1 (01:58:38):
They still are.

Speaker 2 (01:58:39):
Shot about this shot.

Speaker 1 (01:58:44):
Murdy of Momentarily, Chris is the only filmmaker on the
call here on the commentary track, what what uh if
you were able to what what style of a Batman
movie would you want to make? Are you going? Are
you going full Gun's craziness? You know, animated? You know whatever,
this is or are you more in the Nolan Matt

(01:59:06):
Reeves vein?

Speaker 3 (01:59:09):
You know, it would definitely be somewhere in the world
of Tim Burton or even Snyder. I felt like he
was sort of taking it. The direction also heightened back
back this direction a little bit. Gotham has always been
a character to me. You know, it's just that's one
of the reasons I love the world. And so as
much as I like Nolan's movies, that's what they lack

(01:59:31):
for me. It's just the the production design. So if
I was making a Batman movie, it would definitely be
very Tim Burton and or Batman the animated series ESK.

Speaker 2 (01:59:43):
Yeah, gold standard.

Speaker 3 (01:59:45):
By the way, anytime I come home really tired from
a long day or a shoot or something and I
fall on the bed, I think of this at that
moment where Pig would fall.

Speaker 2 (01:59:56):
Yeah, this is sad.

Speaker 1 (01:59:57):
This stuck with me as a kid, you know, like,
oh the yeah, he's a tragic figure. The little cart
getting pulled out underneath the mony thing. Oh yeah, one
of my favorite little issues.

Speaker 2 (02:00:09):
But and these are all people in penguin suits, I
believe Stan wins.

Speaker 1 (02:00:12):
Yes, these are all little people with like animatronic.

Speaker 2 (02:00:14):
Heads stan Winston like pouring off for him. I just
touched every single genre film of our entire lives, Terminator,
Jurassic Bark, Batman, just alien, Predator, like.

Speaker 1 (02:00:24):
God Bless like it was him or Baker, Yeah, Rick Baker. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:00:30):
So as we wrap up here.

Speaker 1 (02:00:31):
Just like something about the snowy, dark Gotham thing is
just so it's funny Birds of Prey connection. It's funny
to me. It's not even in the script, but in
the final episode of Birds of Prey they make it
Christmas just because I feel like I feel like almost
as an homage to this, like it just fits that
Gothamy world really really well. It just looks so rich

(02:00:52):
with all the snow coming down.

Speaker 2 (02:00:54):
Do you see Birds of Prey is a direct sequel
to Batman Returns? Yes or no, it's a big sequel.

Speaker 1 (02:01:03):
Direct No, yeah, as direct as Batman Forever is sure. Yeah.
I think I think we say this in one of
the episodes that people are soon to hear on this
podcast act. But like it's the it's the Earth next
door in my mind, you know, like if if Birds
of Prey is two three, then this is two O
one two or something.

Speaker 2 (02:01:24):
You know, that's right, and then all of stuff would
have had to happen in between these you know, like right, yeah,
right like that, but it's a it's a jumping off.

Speaker 1 (02:01:33):
Joker is famously alive and locked up in a prison
far away from here, you know, like there's it doesn't
really but the multiverse has a way of a ligning face.

Speaker 2 (02:01:40):
Thank you, thank you, John Cryer, thank you, You're welcome.
So Bruce has his cat.

Speaker 1 (02:01:48):
It's also like great acting from this guy.

Speaker 2 (02:01:50):
Yeah, there's some great cat acting. Yeah, I mean, so
this is this is a go to Christmas week for me,
Like almost every Christmas I put this on either a
Christmas party or what like, any excuse to put this on.

Speaker 1 (02:02:02):
Well, and.

Speaker 3 (02:02:04):
Growing up. I don't know how it is now on cable,
but it always was. It always was on cable Christmas time.

Speaker 1 (02:02:10):
Yeah, good point.

Speaker 3 (02:02:11):
Yeah I think it still is.

Speaker 2 (02:02:13):
I think you can goodwill towards the woen and women.
Very progressive film Batman Return.

Speaker 1 (02:02:17):
It's funny to me when like this and die Hard
to a greater extent, like the Harry Potter movies like
things like that, where it's like there's a Christmas scene
in it and the kids that grew up with it.
Think of it as a Christmas movie now draws the revenge.
It is now being kind of adopted into that Christmas
can and I think I think die Hard is the
strongest Christmas example in there. But like this is absolutely

(02:02:40):
that one of the greatest film endings of all time
right here, with the Bat signal, the Catwoman, the music.

Speaker 2 (02:02:47):
I mean, like so hyped for the next Batman movie.
Everybody Catwoman will return in the sizzle reel. Oh my goodness,
Oh man.

Speaker 1 (02:02:58):
Hey, we made it. If we can do that, we
can do commentaries for forty minute episodes sometimes not even
of Birds of Prey, right, Chris, that'll be that'll be
a piece. Yeah, yeah, that'll be. That'll be really fun.
But there's coming in October again, but this was this
felt like a good way to kick it off. What
else are the other big influences on Birds of Prey

(02:03:19):
besides these original movies here?

Speaker 3 (02:03:22):
Well, I mean, like we said, I think I think
Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Speaker 1 (02:03:26):
Oh sure, Like anything that came out of the w
B at the time was very was very Buffy coded.

Speaker 3 (02:03:31):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:03:32):
What about what about like specifically to the bat stuff,
because like again, animated series was a big deal and
respected at the time, and I think that's obviously why
we've got well Harley Ran jumping into Birds of Harley.

Speaker 3 (02:03:44):
Quinn was original to the animated series. She was creative
for the show. So certainly Batman the animated series.

Speaker 1 (02:03:54):
The comics too at the time were doing the post
No Man's Land earthquake, calling it New Gotham. For a second, thing, was.

Speaker 2 (02:04:03):
Was black Canary on the show, like inscribed by like
the dead Zone maybe like touching people and seeing visions.

Speaker 1 (02:04:08):
Or I never seen the Dead Zone? Is that that
was the deal in the.

Speaker 2 (02:04:11):
Dead Christopher walking right now?

Speaker 1 (02:04:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:04:16):
Yeah, I mean that's a common trope of fiction, like Vision's.

Speaker 1 (02:04:20):
Gonna say more directly on the CW or the WB
was was charmed and one of the systems, like that
was their plot device where she would get premonitions and
that's what they went and dealt with that week.

Speaker 3 (02:04:31):
You know.

Speaker 1 (02:04:31):
But yeah, many many, many great discoveries to be had
going forward here, guys.

Speaker 2 (02:04:36):
I mean there is the killing joke, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:04:38):
I mean, that's the killing joke absolutely obviously. It also
it's fascinating to me that like the killing joke could
have been a one off, could have been an else
world or whatever. But the fact that the idea of
like Barbara being crippled and becoming Oracle gets canonized kind
of canonizes the killing joke too. Yeah. I guess the
point is none of the stuff makes sense together, but
it's all fun and it's all as we say often Zach,

(02:05:01):
it's all history at all rhymes, right, it's the same thing. Well, cool, guys,
this was fun. This is our first and last foray
into Gotham City for a while, but we'll see you
next time in New Gotham.

Speaker 2 (02:05:13):
Well, no man's land.

Speaker 1 (02:05:15):
There you go. There's an influence on you exactly. Yeah,
we'll see you next time with Zach and I talking
about the pilot and yeah, we've got we've got tons
more fun to come, So keep an eye out. Check
out apt Birds of Prey on Instagram. And this is
the last time we'll all be together for a little while. So, like,
where should everybody follow you guys besides here Chris check.

Speaker 3 (02:05:35):
Me out on Instagram at Chris oz McIntosh. That's kind
of where I do a lot on my posting.

Speaker 2 (02:05:41):
Yeah, and for me always Malville with one s on
social media talking about Smallville, all small villajacent things and
Superman adjacent things. I'm all about adjacent things.

Speaker 1 (02:05:50):
Still, didn't you finish?

Speaker 2 (02:05:52):
I have covered every each and every episode. You know,
you know what great thing is I can tell people now,
I'm like, hey, you know what, pick your favorite episode.
Start there. We've covered them all, So pick your favorite episode.
Start from there. You don't have to start at the beginning.
I mean, yeah, I mean Smallville kind of like it
had small Vill lasted one season. We be having the
same conversations that y'all are having on Birds of Prey, like, oh,
is it does it fit to Superman the movie? Maybe

(02:06:14):
he experienced these things, you know, but you know it's
since there's such a small sample size, like had Birds
of Prey continued on and on, they built out the mythology,
they cast to Bruce Wayne and the Oswald Cobba bots
shows up whatever, like like you can say, oh, well,
that doesn't connect anymore. But because there's such a small
sample size, you can draw those lines. Because Smallville to
the very end is connected to the Richard Donner film.

(02:06:34):
So this fortress and all these things and so well.

Speaker 1 (02:06:36):
It's funny because they started doing their own thing and
then like I feel like Superman returns kind of makes
them pivot, yeah, harder into the dinner thing where I'm like,
could you imagine if Birds of Prey is on and
Batman Begins comes out? Like what does how does that
affect anything? You know, like what does that look like?

Speaker 2 (02:06:53):
Do they cancel Birds of Prey because of the new movie?

Speaker 1 (02:06:56):
Very possibly?

Speaker 2 (02:06:57):
Yeah, I don't know how small I don't know how
small Ville avoided that. They were like, well, we're doing
our own thing. That's the compromises, Like, all right, you
can keep going, but you have to use our fortress
and our crystals.

Speaker 1 (02:07:06):
Right, you have to look right.

Speaker 3 (02:07:07):
But also, don't you Derek, Birds of Prey such a
big hit that Batman Begins suddenly becomes more of a
Tim Burton.

Speaker 1 (02:07:13):
Movie maybe, and they kind of the the push for
those aesthetics stays strong.

Speaker 3 (02:07:19):
Yeah, I'm just I don't know. Maybe I don't know
hyper Chicago.

Speaker 2 (02:07:24):
You know, right high for Chicago.

Speaker 1 (02:07:26):
Yeah, maybe there's still kind of a thought of like, well,
that's not what Gotham looks like. It can look like macthay, right, Yeah,
who knows, who knows? We'll never know, certainly not us
here in our earth, but on Earth two O three.
We'll check in with the Birds of Prey soon anyway.
For Always hold On the Birds of Prey, thanks for
listening to everybody. I've been Matt Truex, I've been Zach Moore,

(02:07:46):
and I'm Chris OL's McIntosh. Good Night, New Gotam. Always
hold on To Birds of Prey is produced by Zach
Moore as part of the Always hold on To podcast family.

(02:08:08):
Listen to Zach's other great podcasts wherever you're hearing this,
and check out even more on the Always hold on
To Smallville Patreon page. And for more from the mean
streets of New Gotham, follow app Birds of PREYTV on
Instagram or visit Daily Knockoff dot com. But hey, before
you go skulking around the internet for those other great things,
please leave a rating and review in app. Music and
art for this podcast was produced by me Metrox, who

(02:08:28):
is now signing off. Good Night New Gotham. Mm hmmm,

(02:09:02):
and welcome back to Always hold on To. I want
to do DC's listens tomorrow. God damn it.

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