August 10, 2025 • 23 mins
After Smallville but before the Arrowverse on the small screen, and after Batman & Robin but before Batman Begins on the big screen were the stories of New Gotham...the Birds of Prey! The Batman-adjacent TV series that aired from 2002-2003 on the WB!
Lois & Clark'd: The New Podcasts of Superman's Matt Truex, Always Hold On To Smallville's Zach Moore and filmmaker Chris Oz McIntosh give a quick intro on their history with the series and what to expect from the podcast!
PATREON: patreon.com/alwaysmallville
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/birdsofpreytv
EMAIL: dailyknockoff@gmail.com
Matt Truex is a Warner Bros. Discovery employee. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are his own and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Warner Bros. Discovery.
Lois & Clark'd: The New Podcasts of Superman's Matt Truex, Always Hold On To Smallville's Zach Moore and filmmaker Chris Oz McIntosh give a quick intro on their history with the series and what to expect from the podcast!
PATREON: patreon.com/alwaysmallville
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/birdsofpreytv
EMAIL: dailyknockoff@gmail.com
Matt Truex is a Warner Bros. Discovery employee. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are his own and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Warner Bros. Discovery.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Welcome to always hold on to Birds of Prey. I
am your forever host Hareah Nu Gotham, Matt Truex and
with me today are the two other birds joining me
in this endeavor. We've got co host and podcast producer
extraordinaire Zach Moore.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Hey, guys, happy to be here on Earth two three now.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Two oh three.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Welcome, and we've got co host and filmmaker Chris oz
macintosh live.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
From New Gotham.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Hey, Hey, I think the answer is gonna be it's
my fault, but uh, what are we doing here?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Guy?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Like this?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I'm very excited.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
To be doing this with you guys, because we should
get into origin stories here. But anyone who's seen any
of the dumb things I've done or heard me on
different podcasts over the year knows that I am obsessed
with thirteen episodes of television that aired on the WB
in two thousand and two, two thousand and three. And
I'm not talking about Black Sash. I'm talking about Birds
(01:33):
of Prey. I was twelve year olds old, and like,
immediately I had known the Batman animated series before and
some of the movies and Adam West and whatnot, but
like this was the show that really got me going, like, oh,
what's a meta human?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Oh? She got like Barbara got shot? What happened? You know?
Like I got into the.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Comics literally because I wanted to fill in the backstory
of the show, and that's been my life ever since then.
But so because of that, I've done many creative things,
you know, based on Birds of Prey, and this is
now one that I've been dying to do and have
done in various ways over the years. So I'm really
really excited to be doing it, especially with two other
(02:10):
fans such as yourselves. So, guys, what is your what
is your Birds of Prey origin story?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Chris? Why don't we start with you man.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Birds of Prey? So it's not a whole lot different
from yours. Knew the Batman movies like the back of
my hand, the animated series. It was like breathing, living
and breathing Batman every day all the time as a kid,
and I was like already collecting toys at that point,
like is now commonplace even when it wasn't. I was
(02:41):
like ebag like toys from way back ten years ago,
as though that was a long time ago as a kid,
it is, But I was on eBay all the time,
and my discovering the show was actually a little bit
different than many people. I was on eBay looking at
like props or something, okay, and somebody was selling a
(03:02):
Michelle fIF for like mask replica or something, and in
the listing was like birds of Prey. It was like
Batman returns Catwoman replica birds of Prey mask, and I
was like, what is that you're having? I was like,
what is birds of Prey? And so I get online
and I'm searching birds of Prey and it was this
TV show that was happening, and I was like, I
(03:22):
absolutely need to see this, and I was what's the
reaction you're having. I'm just like this was this actively
being sold? Was it the mask from the show? And
was it actively being sold while the show was going?
I honestly, I think you are thinking too hard. I
think it was like I really think you're thinking. I
don't know for sure anymore, and I sometimes wonder that
(03:44):
I want to like go back in time and see
what it actually was. I just took it as though
it was like a replica of the Catwoman mask, and
because Birds of Prey was new ish at the.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Time, right let's throw that name in there so it
comes up.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
In the listing. And so that was kind of like
what set me off on the on the Birds of
Prey Adventure. And like you said, it was just seeing
a show and stories being told in the world of
Batman but without Batman was really interesting to me. Like,
even though I love Batman, it's like, oh, there's a
whole world around him, and there are all sorts of
(04:19):
characters that we can totally live with for forty five minutes,
and you know, you don't need Batman to tell an
interesting story.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
And the seasons to come potentially, Yeah, you must have done.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
All the Batman TV shows, Chris Batman will without Batman
what a rich story concept. At least three maybe four TV.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Shows all started here, maybe right exactly.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
And so it's like you said, it's not that different.
I mean, from then on out, it's not that different
from yours. It's like a show with Barbara Gordon as
one of the leads and the huntress. And not only
are you know, is it Barbara Gordon the Huntress, but
they're really well cast. Yeah, like Dina Meyer and Ashley Scott,
who just totally has the kind of Batman and Catwoman
(05:04):
put together about her and then you know, not not
to cut anybody else, you know. Obviously the rest of
the cast is really enjoyable in their roles as well,
But it was just seeing these characters we've never seen.
But I mean, I guess we kind of saw Batgirl
in live action with Batman and Robin sort of Madam
West Shet Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you know, like that
(05:27):
it's a totally different tone, right, Like we hadn't seen
a serious like modern Barbara on Barbara Gordon.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And Barbara Gordon absolutely, yeah, yeah, very true. And then
you and you and I, I mean, like we'll get
into it as we do our episodes, but you and
I have connected over the years of like you're friendly
with Ashley Scott, You're you're you know, like I feel
like we've both kind of stuck with it in the
same way of just like for whatever reason, New Gotham
lives completely rent free in our minds, and like you
(05:58):
when when I thought about doing this and we'll get
didn't exactly what this is, but like you were someone
I was like, oh, Chris has got to be involved,
Like this would be so much fun to do with
with another like Uber fan, So thank you, thank you
for jumping in and into our dumb podcast world with
this man.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
I can't wait for it. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Who else thinks about this world that doesn't exist anymore
but you?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
But you and I and A and a strong following
of others. So now that we've talked to the super fans,
Zach you a super fan as well.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So Matt and I have talked about Birds of Prey
on and off microphone over the years, and you'll hear
some of those conversations as this new project unfolds. But
I come to Birds of Prey through Smallville, through watching Smallville,
the Young Superman show, the two thousand and one and
twenty eleven on the WB and the c W. Oh
that that show. You might have heard of it. In
(06:51):
Smallville's second season they announced Birds of Prey and of
our ads and commercials and with Batman left Gotham and
that sort of thing right, and I was like, wow,
the it's a live action Batman show of some kind
of you know I And at the time I was
intrigued because I was like, oh, okay, this makes sense.
You're doing Superman before Superman. That's Smallville. We'll do Batman
(07:12):
after Batman, that's birds Prey. Plus you're getting to see
characters like back Girl. You haven't seen it all really
in live action, like we were just talking about. Chris
is right, So yeah, I mean it was exciting. And
I watched like the first couple episodes, and then I
watched the last couple episodes, and then I probably watched
one in between, and uh, and then it was it
(07:35):
was as soon as it had had arrived, it was gone.
And I think I think at the time I took
it for I took it for granted because I'm like, well,
I'm watching Smallville. It's super successful, It's gonna I mean,
we didn't know what the time had run for ten years,
but like it was like it's it's here, It's it's
gonna keep going. I'm sure this will be here and
this will keep going. And I think I took it
for granted at the time. It didn't really lock in
and sit down. Little did I know? You know that
(07:56):
I turn around, It's not gonna be there the next
the next season. And then over the years online I
found the Unaired Pilot and watched that and had an
affinity and a knowledge and a memory of the show,
which a lot of people don't have at all. So
I mean that puts me. I'm not on y'all's level
of the fandom, but I'm like the next level underneath,
because I know it existed.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
So that's me.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And then you know, connecting with you, Matt over the
years and podcasting, you know, we've connected a lot of things,
had a lot of the same fandoms as far as
like the Burton Schumacher Batman movies, Batman, the an Mad series.
This is this is adjacent of that, like it's adjacent
to Smallville just in the fact that like it existed
on the air on the WB the same time produced.
But yeah, yeah, yeah, So so like it's this, it's
(08:37):
this connective tissue between these things. We love Smallville the
TV show and then the Burton Schumacher Batman movies, and
it's it's this this Venn diagram somehow in the middle.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
And that's so I see it and I'm glad it exists.
And if Smallville has like a cousin show, this is
that cousin show. Because small Will never had any spin
offs or anything. I had no and I'll attempted the
man once, but and they actually had a pilot and
all that, but it never aired. But this air, this
was on the WB with Smallville, they could have imagined
if this had gone on, they would have had I'm
sure they would have had a crossover some kind. They
(09:07):
would have had Chloe and from the future, a new
Gotham or something like that. That's the level of cross
level we're talking. But the fact that it could have
built the universe out of this would have been interesting.
So I have an affinity for it. I'm glad it exists.
I'm looking forward to revisiting it again with y'all.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Cool Cool And what you brought up there too, is
like I think where a lot of my like arrested
development with the show.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
It comes from where.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
It was just like Smallville had been such a hit
the year before, and I was a big fan of
that show, and it's just like when we're doing this
Batman show and I immediately loved it, and I'm like, great,
they'll be here forever, you know, like I expect the
first wave of action figures next season, and then it
teaches me what the word canceled means.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
In November of.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
That year, you know, and it was just like, oh
my God, and ever since then, I've been like mourning
for it and wishing that there had been more.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
So that's a that's a really good point, Zach.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
But let's just get it too, like this is our
episode zero, just to kind of give everybody an idea
of what the show is. This is not gonna be
a forever show. We're talking about thirteen episodes of television here,
so it's not something we can.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Sustain for years and years.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
But over the next couple months, you're gonna get a
lot of always hold on to Birds of Prey content,
starting with podcasts that Zach and I recorded a while
ago that was previously a Patreon exclusive, previously only available
to Zach's awesome patrons and subscribers that he is graciously
out of begging from me, decided can go outside the
(10:32):
paywall and get a little life again. So that's what
you'll be here in first, those are just kind of
like standard review rewatch episodes of the podcast, and then
starting in October, Chris and I will be releasing commentary
tracks for every episode of Birds of Prey, basically on
the anniversary of the weeks that the show is premiered
back in two thousand and two to two thousand and three,
so we're hitting the twenty third anniversary. Nice nice means
(10:55):
nothing number. But it'll be fun and we've got some
bonus interviews and other dumb chats and like maybe we'll
read a comic book at some point along the way.
So again, limited series, but it should be really fun.
And uh and I can't wait to do it with you, guys.
I can't wait to jump into New Gotham with you.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, I mean, Matt, believe it or not. As of
this recording, it was five years ago. We did Always
under Birds of Prey.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
The height of COVID too, you know, and no.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Jokes aside that that that helped kind of we're already friends.
That kind of made us even closer friends, and now
we were dear friends in real life as well as
in fandom. And uh so I did that with you,
and then you did Always on the Flash with me,
the nineteen nineties flash, which is if there's a Birds
of Prey to you, is the Flash to me like
a canceled show from our youth that it's this one
season you got twice as much, but we both came
(11:46):
back in the Chrysler.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, everybody died in crisis, so we've got that.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
We trumpled bonded together around that too. Yeah, so it's
fun to revisit this, And and enough time has passed
for some of these Patreon exclusive things we had on
the on the Greater always on the small one network,
and it's okay for them to be released into the public,
So I don't it's fun to re listen to this
stuff as well, because we we talk so much on
an off microphone. Now I'm like, it's like, what did
we even say?
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Right, what were we even thinking?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And also, by the way, you can still get the
unedited versions of those on the Patriots.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yes, yes, so we're not we're not George lucasing it.
We are updating in cleaning up a little bit and
making a more evergreen for this podcast. But the original
versions do exist on the Patreon still similarly to what
we always onto.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
The flash, didn't he release like the originals on DVD?
With the re releases at some point I feel like.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I have those, so yeah, okay, the laser disc versions
of the original Star Wars trilogy we were dumped onto
a de Yeah, okay, but look, let's be fair. In
nineteen ninety five when George Lucas came out with those
hs hx VHS tapes and DVDs. The commercial does say
it's your last chance to own the original origin of
(12:57):
Star Wars.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Can't consistent about that.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, he can't say he didn't us his Laura has
always been consistent on that.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Yeah, yeah, he was not hiding.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
We are all right a few just Birds of Prey things,
and then we'll sign off for our episode zero here
and get to the fun of New Gotham. But at
the start of this revisiting with both of you guys,
just two basic questions. A what is your favorite episode
as of now?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Gun to your head? Of Birds of.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Prey, Gun to my head. I go like, what just
comes to mind is Lady Shiva, Just because we get
to see Barbara Gordon back on her feet, back in
the costume. We see the cool flashback at the beginning
of the show. I also love I also love the pilot.
It just introduces us to the world. Huntress has some
(13:45):
really cool moments in the pilot, like that when you
think of the show, you go back to these Huntress,
you know, diving off the building.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So Lady isn't interested, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Yeah, Like, there's just these iconic moments. So, man, you
asked for one and I just gave you two.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Lady Shiva, I yeah, I mean both.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
We'll go Lady Shiva.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yeah. Yeah, it's all.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
I was gonna say, they're all the shortlist, but I'm like, literally,
the show is the shortlist, So I the.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Show is the short enough list to begin with, I'm
zach Man.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I you know Lady She was one of the ones
I watched back in the day and I have I
have a sauce spot for that. But just to mix
it up slightly, I'm gonna I will say the pilot
would be my favorite with Lady Shiva as the follow up,
So me and Chris are pretty much in the same
Sorry for the lack of variety though, though, because for
the same reason you get to see Barbara Gordon in
the in the back girl suit. They repurposed the Batman
or Robin suit and made it a proper back girl suit.
(14:37):
It looks like a would totally fit into the Burton
Schumacher universe with the black and the and the yellow,
and like, it's so cool to see her walking around
as back girl and to have a Batman villain there
and all that just anyway that that would always steck
out to me. But then I will go with a
pilot because it establishes the universe. It's a strong start
to the show. You could tell what the original intention
was with the show, which I know as we have
(14:57):
and we'll talk about like they they just drifted away
f that rather quickly. But it was a really strong pilot,
you know. It's that's what's crazy to me. It's like
it's like you watch Small Those pilot and it's great,
and you watch this and I'll say Small Hovels is
probably better, but this is still really strong pilot. Yeah,
and then just to be like cancel it.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I'm like, wait, what both excellent pilots, And yes, I
agree that Small Vils is better, but yeah, Bird's a
Prize is great pilot.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So that's my answer.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
It's devastating to me that you both say Lady Shiva
is the favorite, because that's the one that premiered the
week it had gotten canceled, like you know, like that
was the next one to premiere, and it was just
like I remember.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
What, I just waited one more week right before.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Thanksgiving, going like why do you cancel this? This is awesome.
What are we doing here?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You know, I'm gonna go with Devil's Eyes the finale.
When when the show was canceled, I was just immediately
and all the buzz online was like, they might not
even make the last two, it might not even error.
Oh I guess they made them. Maybe they won't aro own.
And like by the time it was coming out, I
was like so bottom, you know, basement expectations for what
(15:58):
this like finale quote quote for Birds of Prey was
going to be. And then the fact that they've got
three dollars and like no one's interest or viewers and
they pull off I think a pretty cool fucking finale.
Like that's that's very impressive to me. All right, last question, uh,
and I think it's between two of the three, who's
(16:18):
your favorite Bird of Prey?
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Man, I oh that's so tough. I guess I guess
I'll go with I guess I'll go with Oracle. I mean,
like you said, it's a toss up between two. Hopefully
our our buddy Zach's gonna take the other one. But
I guess like he did with the pilot, But I
guess I'm gonna go with Oracle just because we get
(16:43):
to see her in action as back girl, like you said,
very Burton Schumacher proper back girl. But we also just
get we've never seen Oracle in live action again or
before that. Yeah, and Dina Meyers, the pitch perfect casting choice,
was the most experiensto actor. And I think I think
acting from a wheelchair how to have been a challenge
(17:05):
as well, Like you're using half of your instrument to
tell the story.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
You know, especially like a bat wheelchair that probably doesn't
work that well.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
You know, it's breaking down half of the time, probably,
And like, yeah, I mean I think she's just she
got to show a lot, you know, a lot of
range in the role and u and with a character
who's been played so little on screen. I just I
think she nailed it.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Well, Matt, your favorite is Huntress?
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Right, Yes, you're making sure there's a vote for Huntress
before you say or.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Look like there's three of us here, Chris, if you're
gonna be Oracle, Matt, you're gonna be Hunress. I'll take
Black Canary.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Oh wow, what a guy you mean? Laria Laughlin.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, of the three, No, at the time of the three,
I think I had the biggest crush on on a
racist tarskin as Fa Canary because I'm like, I'm watching Smallville,
like I'm a teenager. She's a teenager, so I'm like, oh, yeah,
she's cute. I could probably approach your real life and
she might give me the time. You know, I'm mad.
I wasn't gonna say it, but the other two are
(18:12):
going to give me the time of day. They're way
too cool for me. But you know, Diana over here,
like give me a chance. So anyway, no, I mean,
just just to speak to her for a second, like
like absurd reinvention, unnecessarily so of the character. But I mean,
I mean, but but it worked, Like it's not like
if her name wasn't Black Canary, people would have no
(18:32):
problem with like why did you change black Canary? Right, like,
oh well this is meta human and anyway, that sort
of thing. So I'll go I'll go with her. I'll
go with her because she had a very slow but
but but steady evolution over the course of the show
where she just she's the newcomer, she's the if this
is x Men, she's Rode from the X Men movie
from two thousand, right, So that's that's her purpose here.
(18:53):
And you know, I I liked her.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Well and and she's the bit of the audience surrogate
as well, right, like she's the summer the world, the
young one.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I need to be told these things like her because
I'm not as big as a Batman Superman fan as
I am. I'm like, I'm not. I was not into
the Birds of Prey combooks and have the I knew
of oracles and all this stuff, but I didn't know,
like it wasn't like Helena Wayne from Earth too like
I was. I didn't have the knowledge. So like her
being the into the world was was that was me
as the point of view, characters, the audience insert.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
We were all just as surprised as Dinah was to
learn that Catwoman was a meta human, which we'll get into,
but yeah, so like it was helpful to have her
there to kind of voice our concerns about that.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Do you do you want to speak to Hunters then?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Since I mean sure, I mean it's it's it's her show.
In many ways, we are like it is it's neck
and neck for me because Diana Meyer's oracle Barbacordon. It's
just like, how how dare we be so lucky as
to get that perfect like she is page to screen.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Also from fresh off the set of Star Trek Nemesis
and also iconic.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah what a year for her, Yeah her career.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
All this to say nothing taking nothing away from her,
but the the tone that they struck with Ashley Scott's
Huntress being the catwoman batman child, having that nobility, but
then like never never losing the Catwoman's side of her
in fact, you know her better angels or whatever, kind
(20:25):
of fighting back the Catwoman's side as much as it can,
you know, just just to stop her from killing someone
at the end of every episode. Basically that she was
always fun. She was like the perfect type of badass
character that the wb wanted at the time. And another
reason why I'm like, how did they cancel this, because
like you can put her on the poster for the
(20:45):
next five seasons and everyone's interested, you know, like she's
just she had that thing in this show. It is
a perfect match of like actress at the right time
to meet this character. And uh and I think any
success the show had is largely due to that magic there.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
As the small little guy, let me say this year
for the record, Ashley Scott when Birds of Prey started,
was a better actress than Tom Ely was. Oh god, yes,
I mean, I mean yeah. She carried her charm, her smarm,
like her attitude, her spunk, whatever you want to call it,
her energy, like total leading lady energy. And it's it's such,
it's again. We'll go back to it time and time again,
(21:24):
and we have, we will. It's such a shame the
show got cut short.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
And it's like, I think it's ahead of its time,
but we'll get into it as we keep going here.
But anyway, guys, again, just what the Internet needed. Three
dudes talking about a show about three girls. But I
hope this all comes from the right place. I look
forward to having guests. I look forward to Devin. We've
(21:48):
got some interviews with crew and writer, some producers and
stuff come in your way. So just just really excited
for all of it. But without further ado, let's jump
into New Gotham. We've got a kickoff commentary coming out
for you soon, and then get ready for just a
whole bunch of Birds of Prey content over the next
couple of months and hope everybody's into it. But until then,
(22:09):
I guess we're signing off from the clock tower. So
I've been Matt Truex.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
I'm gris Alas McIntosh and I'm Zach Moore.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Oh god, what do we say? Yeah? Really exactly? Good
night you gotam?
Speaker 6 (22:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Always hold on To Birds of Prey is produced by
Zach Moore as part of the Always hold on To
podcast family. Listen to Zach's are the great podcasts wherever
you're hearing this and check out even more on the
Always hold on To Smallville Patreon page. And for more
from the mean streets of New Gotham, follow app Birds
of Prey TV on Instagram or visit Daily Knockoff dot com.
But hey, before you go skulking around the internet for
those other great things, please leave a rating review in
(23:00):
app music and art for This podcast was produced by
me Metrox is now signing off.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Good Night you Gotham.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Is that is that your thing?
Speaker 3 (23:39):
That I don't know? That's what I said of the
pre record thing.
Welcome to always hold on to Birds of Prey. I
am your forever host Hareah Nu Gotham, Matt Truex and
with me today are the two other birds joining me
in this endeavor. We've got co host and podcast producer
extraordinaire Zach Moore.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Hey, guys, happy to be here on Earth two three now.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Two oh three.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Welcome, and we've got co host and filmmaker Chris oz
macintosh live.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
From New Gotham.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Hey, Hey, I think the answer is gonna be it's
my fault, but uh, what are we doing here?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Guy?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Like this?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I'm very excited.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
To be doing this with you guys, because we should
get into origin stories here. But anyone who's seen any
of the dumb things I've done or heard me on
different podcasts over the year knows that I am obsessed
with thirteen episodes of television that aired on the WB
in two thousand and two, two thousand and three. And
I'm not talking about Black Sash. I'm talking about Birds
(01:33):
of Prey. I was twelve year olds old, and like,
immediately I had known the Batman animated series before and
some of the movies and Adam West and whatnot, but
like this was the show that really got me going, like, oh,
what's a meta human?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Oh? She got like Barbara got shot? What happened? You know?
Like I got into the.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Comics literally because I wanted to fill in the backstory
of the show, and that's been my life ever since then.
But so because of that, I've done many creative things,
you know, based on Birds of Prey, and this is
now one that I've been dying to do and have
done in various ways over the years. So I'm really
really excited to be doing it, especially with two other
(02:10):
fans such as yourselves. So, guys, what is your what
is your Birds of Prey origin story?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Chris? Why don't we start with you man.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Birds of Prey? So it's not a whole lot different
from yours. Knew the Batman movies like the back of
my hand, the animated series. It was like breathing, living
and breathing Batman every day all the time as a kid,
and I was like already collecting toys at that point,
like is now commonplace even when it wasn't. I was
(02:41):
like ebag like toys from way back ten years ago,
as though that was a long time ago as a kid,
it is, But I was on eBay all the time,
and my discovering the show was actually a little bit
different than many people. I was on eBay looking at
like props or something, okay, and somebody was selling a
(03:02):
Michelle fIF for like mask replica or something, and in
the listing was like birds of Prey. It was like
Batman returns Catwoman replica birds of Prey mask, and I
was like, what is that you're having? I was like,
what is birds of Prey? And so I get online
and I'm searching birds of Prey and it was this
TV show that was happening, and I was like, I
(03:22):
absolutely need to see this, and I was what's the
reaction you're having. I'm just like this was this actively
being sold? Was it the mask from the show? And
was it actively being sold while the show was going?
I honestly, I think you are thinking too hard. I
think it was like I really think you're thinking. I
don't know for sure anymore, and I sometimes wonder that
(03:44):
I want to like go back in time and see
what it actually was. I just took it as though
it was like a replica of the Catwoman mask, and
because Birds of Prey was new ish at the.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Time, right let's throw that name in there so it
comes up.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
In the listing. And so that was kind of like
what set me off on the on the Birds of
Prey Adventure. And like you said, it was just seeing
a show and stories being told in the world of
Batman but without Batman was really interesting to me. Like,
even though I love Batman, it's like, oh, there's a
whole world around him, and there are all sorts of
(04:19):
characters that we can totally live with for forty five minutes,
and you know, you don't need Batman to tell an
interesting story.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
And the seasons to come potentially, Yeah, you must have done.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
All the Batman TV shows, Chris Batman will without Batman
what a rich story concept. At least three maybe four TV.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Shows all started here, maybe right exactly.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
And so it's like you said, it's not that different.
I mean, from then on out, it's not that different
from yours. It's like a show with Barbara Gordon as
one of the leads and the huntress. And not only
are you know, is it Barbara Gordon the Huntress, but
they're really well cast. Yeah, like Dina Meyer and Ashley Scott,
who just totally has the kind of Batman and Catwoman
(05:04):
put together about her and then you know, not not
to cut anybody else, you know. Obviously the rest of
the cast is really enjoyable in their roles as well,
But it was just seeing these characters we've never seen.
But I mean, I guess we kind of saw Batgirl
in live action with Batman and Robin sort of Madam
West Shet Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you know, like that
(05:27):
it's a totally different tone, right, Like we hadn't seen
a serious like modern Barbara on Barbara Gordon.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And Barbara Gordon absolutely, yeah, yeah, very true. And then
you and you and I, I mean, like we'll get
into it as we do our episodes, but you and
I have connected over the years of like you're friendly
with Ashley Scott, You're you're you know, like I feel
like we've both kind of stuck with it in the
same way of just like for whatever reason, New Gotham
lives completely rent free in our minds, and like you
(05:58):
when when I thought about doing this and we'll get
didn't exactly what this is, but like you were someone
I was like, oh, Chris has got to be involved,
Like this would be so much fun to do with
with another like Uber fan, So thank you, thank you
for jumping in and into our dumb podcast world with
this man.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
I can't wait for it. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Who else thinks about this world that doesn't exist anymore
but you?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
But you and I and A and a strong following
of others. So now that we've talked to the super fans,
Zach you a super fan as well.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So Matt and I have talked about Birds of Prey
on and off microphone over the years, and you'll hear
some of those conversations as this new project unfolds. But
I come to Birds of Prey through Smallville, through watching Smallville,
the Young Superman show, the two thousand and one and
twenty eleven on the WB and the c W. Oh
that that show. You might have heard of it. In
(06:51):
Smallville's second season they announced Birds of Prey and of
our ads and commercials and with Batman left Gotham and
that sort of thing right, and I was like, wow,
the it's a live action Batman show of some kind
of you know I And at the time I was
intrigued because I was like, oh, okay, this makes sense.
You're doing Superman before Superman. That's Smallville. We'll do Batman
(07:12):
after Batman, that's birds Prey. Plus you're getting to see
characters like back Girl. You haven't seen it all really
in live action, like we were just talking about. Chris
is right, So yeah, I mean it was exciting. And
I watched like the first couple episodes, and then I
watched the last couple episodes, and then I probably watched
one in between, and uh, and then it was it
(07:35):
was as soon as it had had arrived, it was gone.
And I think I think at the time I took
it for I took it for granted because I'm like, well,
I'm watching Smallville. It's super successful, It's gonna I mean,
we didn't know what the time had run for ten years,
but like it was like it's it's here, It's it's
gonna keep going. I'm sure this will be here and
this will keep going. And I think I took it
for granted at the time. It didn't really lock in
and sit down. Little did I know? You know that
(07:56):
I turn around, It's not gonna be there the next
the next season. And then over the years online I
found the Unaired Pilot and watched that and had an
affinity and a knowledge and a memory of the show,
which a lot of people don't have at all. So
I mean that puts me. I'm not on y'all's level
of the fandom, but I'm like the next level underneath,
because I know it existed.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
So that's me.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And then you know, connecting with you, Matt over the
years and podcasting, you know, we've connected a lot of things,
had a lot of the same fandoms as far as
like the Burton Schumacher Batman movies, Batman, the an Mad series.
This is this is adjacent of that, like it's adjacent
to Smallville just in the fact that like it existed
on the air on the WB the same time produced.
But yeah, yeah, yeah, So so like it's this, it's
(08:37):
this connective tissue between these things. We love Smallville the
TV show and then the Burton Schumacher Batman movies, and
it's it's this this Venn diagram somehow in the middle.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
And that's so I see it and I'm glad it exists.
And if Smallville has like a cousin show, this is
that cousin show. Because small Will never had any spin
offs or anything. I had no and I'll attempted the
man once, but and they actually had a pilot and
all that, but it never aired. But this air, this
was on the WB with Smallville, they could have imagined
if this had gone on, they would have had I'm
sure they would have had a crossover some kind. They
(09:07):
would have had Chloe and from the future, a new
Gotham or something like that. That's the level of cross
level we're talking. But the fact that it could have
built the universe out of this would have been interesting.
So I have an affinity for it. I'm glad it exists.
I'm looking forward to revisiting it again with y'all.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Cool Cool And what you brought up there too, is
like I think where a lot of my like arrested
development with the show.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
It comes from where.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
It was just like Smallville had been such a hit
the year before, and I was a big fan of
that show, and it's just like when we're doing this
Batman show and I immediately loved it, and I'm like, great,
they'll be here forever, you know, like I expect the
first wave of action figures next season, and then it
teaches me what the word canceled means.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
In November of.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
That year, you know, and it was just like, oh
my God, and ever since then, I've been like mourning
for it and wishing that there had been more.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
So that's a that's a really good point, Zach.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
But let's just get it too, like this is our
episode zero, just to kind of give everybody an idea
of what the show is. This is not gonna be
a forever show. We're talking about thirteen episodes of television here,
so it's not something we can.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Sustain for years and years.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
But over the next couple months, you're gonna get a
lot of always hold on to Birds of Prey content,
starting with podcasts that Zach and I recorded a while
ago that was previously a Patreon exclusive, previously only available
to Zach's awesome patrons and subscribers that he is graciously
out of begging from me, decided can go outside the
(10:32):
paywall and get a little life again. So that's what
you'll be here in first, those are just kind of
like standard review rewatch episodes of the podcast, and then
starting in October, Chris and I will be releasing commentary
tracks for every episode of Birds of Prey, basically on
the anniversary of the weeks that the show is premiered
back in two thousand and two to two thousand and three,
so we're hitting the twenty third anniversary. Nice nice means
(10:55):
nothing number. But it'll be fun and we've got some
bonus interviews and other dumb chats and like maybe we'll
read a comic book at some point along the way.
So again, limited series, but it should be really fun.
And uh and I can't wait to do it with you, guys.
I can't wait to jump into New Gotham with you.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, I mean, Matt, believe it or not. As of
this recording, it was five years ago. We did Always
under Birds of Prey.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
The height of COVID too, you know, and no.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Jokes aside that that that helped kind of we're already friends.
That kind of made us even closer friends, and now
we were dear friends in real life as well as
in fandom. And uh so I did that with you,
and then you did Always on the Flash with me,
the nineteen nineties flash, which is if there's a Birds
of Prey to you, is the Flash to me like
a canceled show from our youth that it's this one
season you got twice as much, but we both came
(11:46):
back in the Chrysler.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, everybody died in crisis, so we've got that.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
We trumpled bonded together around that too. Yeah, so it's
fun to revisit this, And and enough time has passed
for some of these Patreon exclusive things we had on
the on the Greater always on the small one network,
and it's okay for them to be released into the public,
So I don't it's fun to re listen to this
stuff as well, because we we talk so much on
an off microphone. Now I'm like, it's like, what did
we even say?
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Right, what were we even thinking?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And also, by the way, you can still get the
unedited versions of those on the Patriots.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yes, yes, so we're not we're not George lucasing it.
We are updating in cleaning up a little bit and
making a more evergreen for this podcast. But the original
versions do exist on the Patreon still similarly to what
we always onto.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
The flash, didn't he release like the originals on DVD?
With the re releases at some point I feel like.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I have those, so yeah, okay, the laser disc versions
of the original Star Wars trilogy we were dumped onto
a de Yeah, okay, but look, let's be fair. In
nineteen ninety five when George Lucas came out with those
hs hx VHS tapes and DVDs. The commercial does say
it's your last chance to own the original origin of
(12:57):
Star Wars.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Can't consistent about that.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, he can't say he didn't us his Laura has
always been consistent on that.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Yeah, yeah, he was not hiding.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
We are all right a few just Birds of Prey things,
and then we'll sign off for our episode zero here
and get to the fun of New Gotham. But at
the start of this revisiting with both of you guys,
just two basic questions. A what is your favorite episode
as of now?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Gun to your head? Of Birds of.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Prey, Gun to my head. I go like, what just
comes to mind is Lady Shiva, Just because we get
to see Barbara Gordon back on her feet, back in
the costume. We see the cool flashback at the beginning
of the show. I also love I also love the pilot.
It just introduces us to the world. Huntress has some
(13:45):
really cool moments in the pilot, like that when you
think of the show, you go back to these Huntress,
you know, diving off the building.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So Lady isn't interested, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Yeah, Like, there's just these iconic moments. So, man, you
asked for one and I just gave you two.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Lady Shiva, I yeah, I mean both.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
We'll go Lady Shiva.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yeah. Yeah, it's all.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
I was gonna say, they're all the shortlist, but I'm like, literally,
the show is the shortlist, So I the.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Show is the short enough list to begin with, I'm
zach Man.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I you know Lady She was one of the ones
I watched back in the day and I have I
have a sauce spot for that. But just to mix
it up slightly, I'm gonna I will say the pilot
would be my favorite with Lady Shiva as the follow up,
So me and Chris are pretty much in the same
Sorry for the lack of variety though, though, because for
the same reason you get to see Barbara Gordon in
the in the back girl suit. They repurposed the Batman
or Robin suit and made it a proper back girl suit.
(14:37):
It looks like a would totally fit into the Burton
Schumacher universe with the black and the and the yellow,
and like, it's so cool to see her walking around
as back girl and to have a Batman villain there
and all that just anyway that that would always steck
out to me. But then I will go with a
pilot because it establishes the universe. It's a strong start
to the show. You could tell what the original intention
was with the show, which I know as we have
(14:57):
and we'll talk about like they they just drifted away
f that rather quickly. But it was a really strong pilot,
you know. It's that's what's crazy to me. It's like
it's like you watch Small Those pilot and it's great,
and you watch this and I'll say Small Hovels is
probably better, but this is still really strong pilot. Yeah,
and then just to be like cancel it.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I'm like, wait, what both excellent pilots, And yes, I
agree that Small Vils is better, but yeah, Bird's a
Prize is great pilot.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So that's my answer.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
It's devastating to me that you both say Lady Shiva
is the favorite, because that's the one that premiered the
week it had gotten canceled, like you know, like that
was the next one to premiere, and it was just
like I remember.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
What, I just waited one more week right before.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Thanksgiving, going like why do you cancel this? This is awesome.
What are we doing here?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You know, I'm gonna go with Devil's Eyes the finale.
When when the show was canceled, I was just immediately
and all the buzz online was like, they might not
even make the last two, it might not even error.
Oh I guess they made them. Maybe they won't aro own.
And like by the time it was coming out, I
was like so bottom, you know, basement expectations for what
(15:58):
this like finale quote quote for Birds of Prey was
going to be. And then the fact that they've got
three dollars and like no one's interest or viewers and
they pull off I think a pretty cool fucking finale.
Like that's that's very impressive to me. All right, last question, uh,
and I think it's between two of the three, who's
(16:18):
your favorite Bird of Prey?
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Man, I oh that's so tough. I guess I guess
I'll go with I guess I'll go with Oracle. I mean,
like you said, it's a toss up between two. Hopefully
our our buddy Zach's gonna take the other one. But
I guess like he did with the pilot, But I
guess I'm gonna go with Oracle just because we get
(16:43):
to see her in action as back girl, like you said,
very Burton Schumacher proper back girl. But we also just
get we've never seen Oracle in live action again or
before that. Yeah, and Dina Meyers, the pitch perfect casting choice,
was the most experiensto actor. And I think I think
acting from a wheelchair how to have been a challenge
(17:05):
as well, Like you're using half of your instrument to
tell the story.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
You know, especially like a bat wheelchair that probably doesn't
work that well.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
You know, it's breaking down half of the time, probably,
And like, yeah, I mean I think she's just she
got to show a lot, you know, a lot of
range in the role and u and with a character
who's been played so little on screen. I just I
think she nailed it.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Well, Matt, your favorite is Huntress?
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Right, Yes, you're making sure there's a vote for Huntress
before you say or.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Look like there's three of us here, Chris, if you're
gonna be Oracle, Matt, you're gonna be Hunress. I'll take
Black Canary.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Oh wow, what a guy you mean? Laria Laughlin.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, of the three, No, at the time of the three,
I think I had the biggest crush on on a
racist tarskin as Fa Canary because I'm like, I'm watching Smallville,
like I'm a teenager. She's a teenager, so I'm like, oh, yeah,
she's cute. I could probably approach your real life and
she might give me the time. You know, I'm mad.
I wasn't gonna say it, but the other two are
(18:12):
going to give me the time of day. They're way
too cool for me. But you know, Diana over here,
like give me a chance. So anyway, no, I mean,
just just to speak to her for a second, like
like absurd reinvention, unnecessarily so of the character. But I mean,
I mean, but but it worked, Like it's not like
if her name wasn't Black Canary, people would have no
(18:32):
problem with like why did you change black Canary? Right, like,
oh well this is meta human and anyway, that sort
of thing. So I'll go I'll go with her. I'll
go with her because she had a very slow but
but but steady evolution over the course of the show
where she just she's the newcomer, she's the if this
is x Men, she's Rode from the X Men movie
from two thousand, right, So that's that's her purpose here.
(18:53):
And you know, I I liked her.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Well and and she's the bit of the audience surrogate
as well, right, like she's the summer the world, the
young one.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I need to be told these things like her because
I'm not as big as a Batman Superman fan as
I am. I'm like, I'm not. I was not into
the Birds of Prey combooks and have the I knew
of oracles and all this stuff, but I didn't know,
like it wasn't like Helena Wayne from Earth too like
I was. I didn't have the knowledge. So like her
being the into the world was was that was me
as the point of view, characters, the audience insert.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
We were all just as surprised as Dinah was to
learn that Catwoman was a meta human, which we'll get into,
but yeah, so like it was helpful to have her
there to kind of voice our concerns about that.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Do you do you want to speak to Hunters then?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Since I mean sure, I mean it's it's it's her show.
In many ways, we are like it is it's neck
and neck for me because Diana Meyer's oracle Barbacordon. It's
just like, how how dare we be so lucky as
to get that perfect like she is page to screen.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Also from fresh off the set of Star Trek Nemesis
and also iconic.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah what a year for her, Yeah her career.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
All this to say nothing taking nothing away from her,
but the the tone that they struck with Ashley Scott's
Huntress being the catwoman batman child, having that nobility, but
then like never never losing the Catwoman's side of her
in fact, you know her better angels or whatever, kind
(20:25):
of fighting back the Catwoman's side as much as it can,
you know, just just to stop her from killing someone
at the end of every episode. Basically that she was
always fun. She was like the perfect type of badass
character that the wb wanted at the time. And another
reason why I'm like, how did they cancel this, because
like you can put her on the poster for the
(20:45):
next five seasons and everyone's interested, you know, like she's
just she had that thing in this show. It is
a perfect match of like actress at the right time
to meet this character. And uh and I think any
success the show had is largely due to that magic there.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
As the small little guy, let me say this year
for the record, Ashley Scott when Birds of Prey started,
was a better actress than Tom Ely was. Oh god, yes,
I mean, I mean yeah. She carried her charm, her smarm,
like her attitude, her spunk, whatever you want to call it,
her energy, like total leading lady energy. And it's it's such,
it's again. We'll go back to it time and time again,
(21:24):
and we have, we will. It's such a shame the
show got cut short.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
And it's like, I think it's ahead of its time,
but we'll get into it as we keep going here.
But anyway, guys, again, just what the Internet needed. Three
dudes talking about a show about three girls. But I
hope this all comes from the right place. I look
forward to having guests. I look forward to Devin. We've
(21:48):
got some interviews with crew and writer, some producers and
stuff come in your way. So just just really excited
for all of it. But without further ado, let's jump
into New Gotham. We've got a kickoff commentary coming out
for you soon, and then get ready for just a
whole bunch of Birds of Prey content over the next
couple of months and hope everybody's into it. But until then,
(22:09):
I guess we're signing off from the clock tower. So
I've been Matt Truex.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
I'm gris Alas McIntosh and I'm Zach Moore.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Oh god, what do we say? Yeah? Really exactly? Good
night you gotam?
Speaker 6 (22:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Always hold on To Birds of Prey is produced by
Zach Moore as part of the Always hold on To
podcast family. Listen to Zach's are the great podcasts wherever
you're hearing this and check out even more on the
Always hold on To Smallville Patreon page. And for more
from the mean streets of New Gotham, follow app Birds
of Prey TV on Instagram or visit Daily Knockoff dot com.
But hey, before you go skulking around the internet for
those other great things, please leave a rating review in
(23:00):
app music and art for This podcast was produced by
me Metrox is now signing off.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Good Night you Gotham.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Is that is that your thing?
Speaker 3 (23:39):
That I don't know? That's what I said of the
pre record thing.
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Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!