011: MEET A LEGEND - Daniel Park Interview

What was it like in the Legends writers’ room?! Showrunners’ assistant Daniel Park knows and tells us about his tour of duty on the Waverider, including his work on the Earth-Prime comic! Follow Daniel at @damnparka.

NOTE: This episode was recorded before the WGA strike began.

Follow us on socials @legendsofalways and send us an email at [e-mail].

Matt Truex is a Warner Bros. Discovery employee. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are his own and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Warner Bros. Discovery.

Episode Transcript

(00:19):
Hello, and welcome to Always HoldOn to DC's Legends of Tomorrow. I
am one of your co captains,Tricia Ennis. Now I'm your other co
captain, Matt Trix And we've gotanother legend on board with us today.
Tricia. I'm very excited to do. I know we're just we're just bracking
them up. Um, we havea season seven writers assistant Dan Park with
us. Dan, welcome back tothe Wave Writers, sir. Okay,

(00:43):
thank you, thank you the virtualwave writer. Yes, it looks a
little different. That is the officialtitle, right, I didn't mess that
up. I was actually the showowners assistant show writers assistant. Excuse me,
okay, very very yeah, howof you were us not to shout
out the actual right, was aSynthian who was intrumental in getting you the

(01:06):
job in the first place. Ifeel like it's bad, Carb'll be honest
about that. Fair enough, Nowlit all spoilers for for a question we
have in the future. But butbut before we get to like your legend's
tenure, we're on a time chavelshow. So let's let's jump back a
bit, like when did writing layou know, Hollywood Dreams kind of first
become the goal for you. Yeah, I um my evolution in terms of

(01:30):
my journey as a writer. Sorry, really, when I watched the first
Sam RAMI Spider Man, and Ithought, wow, this is the coolest
thing ever. Like uh, likeyou know, I watched like a lot
of movies and TV shows, butlike that was like the first time where
like I felt like I was reallywant to know about the art of like
filmmaking and like generally, um andlike I remember, I very specifically like

(01:56):
learned about every single little continuity detaildetail, like like there was like a
story behind like this shot, andlike you know, like you see that
like Spider Man's were jumping like runningaround tramp like or Mary James running around
the trampoline. The Spider Man justjumped off of that's a street blah blah
blah. And like I irritated likemy family and my friends to nowhere and
it was like, we don't care. Shut up. How old are you

(02:19):
too? When you're first saying thanksGod? What? Like it was two
thousand and two, so like Ihad to have been like ten eleven,
okay, like where I was juststarting to be cognizant of like um uh,
like is that right? Like isthat math right? I don't know,
but U but like yeah, reallystarting to get be more content.
It wasn't just I wasn't just beingin a cane. I was like actually

(02:42):
curious about filmmaking and people make thisyeah yeah exactly, and so like you
know, I like I first likewrite fan fiction by even realizing what fan
fiction really was, and that thought, oh, like this is the way
to do it, like I writeprose and something to study English and do
all that kind of stuff. Andit wasn't until um, like later in

(03:02):
high school and then going to collegewhere I realized like, oh not,
what I actually want to do isscreenwriting. Um right, I don't have
I can't write a novel. Soum I went to school for that in
Boston, Boston actually family enough umand uh and so I studied screenwriting there

(03:24):
um and then I pretty much assoon as I came out uh to like
we're i'd rather, I spend asemester in la UM in my senior year
and like pretty much went straight fromuh like back to Boston to graduate and
like a week later, godma thinkspacked and moved straight back to la and

(03:45):
just been uh jumping around ever sincealso went to school in Boston, which
which Boston did you go to?You did? Yeah? Oh my god?
That is literally Trician and I weretexting today of like where did you
go to school? Like we weliterally just had this conversation. So you
said that. I was like,holy shit. He said in a previous
podcast that yeah, I studied TVlike writing for a TV and film in

(04:09):
college in Boston. And I waslike, I think he went to Emerson
because I almost went there. Ohmy god, this opens up a whole
can of word. Yeah, verya very different path. Okay, so
we have similar history in the writingthing. Um. I am always curious
then, like and by the way, fanfic can be the answer, but

(04:32):
like what was the first script youfinished? Like what was it about?
Like what was that first script thatyou went like, oh I can do
this beginning to end? Oh yeah, I Um, I think I had
like had written like I was reallytrying to like write like short films like
you know, like like in highschool before I really started to understand the

(04:54):
craft. Like I was like,I'm just gonna like write these cool like
like short film and cheers and likenone of them ever really uh, Like
I don't think I've ever finished anyof them, if I if I'm recalling
correctly, and so, like youknow, going to school like where you
kind of had to like taking ascreenwriting class where you like had to to
write something or you fail, likethat was a very strong motivator and helped

(05:18):
me kind of shape my act together. I want to say, even though
I knew I wanted to write uhlike drama and like um like actually like
like drama genre stuff, I wasreally curious about the sitcom um uh side
of side of things. So Itook like TV comedy writing UM and I

(05:41):
I believe I wrote a spec scriptfor thirty Rock and for Modern Family UM
and thirty Actually I was sorry.I took the same class and wrote a
thirty Rocks back to like what thehell I read the book? I did
not write a third Like we're likevariance of each other. Really, this
is I can't wait to be onyour Legends Time podcast. That would be

(06:03):
great, I know it some alternateuniverse. Yeah really so not talking about
um your being the exact same personis Matt Um. We sort of have
like some like background questions about likeyour personal fandom from before you started working
in UM in TV and specifically inthe Legends and arrow Verse fandom. So

(06:23):
I'm personally curious if you were acomic book fan before you started working in
this this realm. And then we'realso wondering were you already watching Legends or
the Aero Verse before you got thejob. So fandom um very much.
So like I uh, you know, you know, grew up watching a
lot of like um, I thinkof the things I really kind of calomb
it out to, you know,like you know, we're a lot of

(06:44):
like you know, I watched thetwo like the Old Tunami book and so
like discovering a lot of anime onthere, like like live shown and stuff
Dragon mall Z you hawk a show, et cetera. UM. But you
know, also to like the biglike like you know a lot of big
live action stuff, you know,like like I was obsessed with like the
Tim Burton Batman's and um as wellas the uh uh you know, the

(07:09):
Star Wars films and all all thatsort of like you know, like really
big big swing big swing stuff andso uh And in terms of like some
of like the fandoms, you know, I kind of really grant it really
ran the gamut. You know,I did read a good amount of comics
as a as a kid, youknow, both manga as well as Western

(07:31):
superhero comics. Um Like you know, like I I kind of id I
was pretty agnostic about the DC Marvelof all. I was just kind of
like whatever I could get my handson. I was like, oh,
this is cool. Uh. Andbut you know, I had a I
was a big fan of the DCanimated universe back in the day, so
like, you know, I likewatched I must have watched like, uh

(07:53):
every episode of Justice egan when theydid like five times at the best sermonimum.
So it's definitely always kind of inmy in my wheelhouse, you know,
just like always something to to loveand kind of dig into and uh
be getting interested in the lore beforeI even really realized, you know,
like as I was saying about spinnerMan, like before I even really realize
like what that meant, Like,I was kind of already still just kind

(08:15):
of always very curious about the behindthe scenes stuff and wanted to learn about
it. Things kind of evolved asI got a little bit older. I
got really the heroes for for hotminute, because I felt like perfect,
like oh, like this is likesuperhero like com booky Shenanigans, but like
I'm kind of like this like prestigeTV drama scale uh and uh say what

(08:37):
you will about you know how howthat show kind of ended up like it
was still very influential to me backin the day, but also stuff like
you know, afterire lest Airbender andall sorts of stuff, so really kind
of ran the gamut. Um.So, the funny story behind my worming
my way into the air verse wasI did watch UM raw when a first

(09:01):
premiere, and I thought it wasa really really cool and the second season
in particular, I thought was likejust like really great television from start to
finish. And so you know,this was around the time when I was
finally moving to La ending of pursuingmy career, and so like I thought,
like, oh man, UM,I was starting to think, you
know, just genuinely like, Okay, how what are the ways I can

(09:24):
like maybe meet with TV writers orpeople who work in the kind of shows
that I love UM and I canI can I get advice from them?
And can I just like get toknow them a little bit better? And
so like, well, the wholeI like in my Music discovered that Kadoshimizu
was at the time, I wantto say, a staff writer on season
two of Arrow So like I justwas able to like kind of track her

(09:45):
down on social media. I'd likereach out to her. It was like,
hey, um, I would loveto like learn about where it's like
for you as a TV writer,as a as an Asian American TV writer.
So um. We she was verygenerous for time and not to breakfast,
and we just kind of stayed intouch over the years, and you
know, and she was really alwaysvery supportive of me, and like it

(10:07):
was really kind of cool to seeher, even just from the outside,
kind of rising up the ranks withan Arrow verse. Um, you know,
like getting those tide of bumps fromyear to year and then eventually being
kosher on her on Legends, whichyou know, turned out to be my
favorite show out of all the Arrowsshows. So it's kind of very just
like everything kind of coming full circlein terms of how I came into Legends

(10:31):
vers because I literally would not havebeen a Legends if not if not for
Catto. That's that's like the bestanswer as to how you could have gotten
into like the Hollywood thing at all, Like it's just it's natural, it's
you know, connection, Like that'sbeautiful, man, Yeah, it's um.
I had a lot of thoughts aboutand I think, you know,
and learning about you know, theindustry, which is so personal relationship driven,

(10:52):
right, um. You know,it's about like the whole adage of
or cliche say, it's like it'sfuck what you know? Um. And
you know, for me, especiallyas I kind of really started to figure
myself out just as the person,but also like recognizing like like finding that
balance of like ambition versus just sheerlike need to like connect with people who

(11:13):
have similar passions or are in thesame field as you. And so I
really kind of learned to kind ofuh. I definitely felt like you know,
when I was like really not evenfully graduated, and I felt like
over eager to like to like meetpeople and to like make connection and hope
like oh I really hope, um, like the job will come out of
this. And then and then youknow, realizing I had to kind of

(11:37):
slow my role and just be coolof just like getting no people, no
expectations, no like sort of likesheer and motive. So it's really glad
that like someone like Keto I couldjust kind of stay in touch with and
like occasionally we ch had to aviceand you know she's before the just you
know she's helped me out from timeto time and um, and so just
like not having that any sort oflike kind of transaction, I don't think,

(12:00):
just like knowing they're like, ohthis Ketto is a great person who
cares about people, and like ifI were email her life, she would
gladly respond. And so like Iwasn't certainly like looking for necessarily looking for
a job on like and it justkind of came to me, or rather
she kind of a bought of me, which I'm was really flattered and grateful
for. I think I speaks tolike, Yeah, just like how you

(12:22):
can't ever predict where these things comefrom and when they will happen. You
just have to do the best youcan in the moment and try to just
be as gracious and kind as youcan towards people and help people where you
can, and help will come backto you somehow someway. Yeah, that's
that's awesome. And the few peoplethat I've met around town that that know

(12:46):
her say the same thing that she'sjust a lovely human being who she's you
know, one of the good peoplein the industry. So that I'm I'm
so glad that's the experience that youhad. Because also, like watching this
show, it's so fun, it'sso joyous. You don't want to imagine
that the people behind it are like, you know, just clocking in and
slogging through and what. You know, Yeah, it's very much to show
where like you know, if you'reif you're not like um, just kind

(13:09):
of going down the most absurd pathpossible, then like it's it's a wasted
day, Like it's it's kind ofa real joy. Like for my time
with the show, it's like reallyjust quite literally throwing spaghetti at the wall
in the most creative and interesting waypossible, and it just was a ton
of fun. Yeah, and justbeing able to kind of embrace the absurdity
of it, and like you know, our show is was deeply absurd in

(13:31):
a way that was totally consistent andreally creatively exciting, and so like it's
kind of funny. Sometimes I thinkabout, like, man, we couldn't
it could have even been more absurd, Like if if the if the pine
in the sky Rider's room was anyindication I was gonna say, Oh,
we'll get to that Pine in thesky question in a bit for sure.
Um so I messed up earlier,I said, rinders room assistant, You

(13:52):
corrected, show runners assistant. Um, could you give just like the quick
definition of what that meant um foryour role on the series. Yeah,
so, um, as a shorter'sassistant, I work both for Phil Klemmer
and Ketto, and so it wasreally, um uh you know, kind
of a versatile role. I mean, ultimately, my primary responsibility was to

(14:15):
make sure you know, like Philand Ketto um had like had all their
schedule needs, scheduling needs for theshow kind of arrange and kind of just
being go between between them as wellas like the studio and the network execs,
not necessarily between you know, likethe actual execs themselves, but and
Phil and Ketto. But more solike just dealing of all the like like

(14:37):
the little minor logistical things that umthat really no one they don't have the
bandwidth for. So that kind offalls to me. And you know,
uh, matter matters of you know, organizing the writers room and like conveying
things, commanding information on behalf ofthe film, Ketto when they're too busy
to do it themselves. UM,just kind of you know, it's it's
a lot of admin work, butit's also like a really um great way

(15:01):
to just kind of interface with everybodyin every department because you know, you
kind of ultimately or acting on behalfof the showers um and so like you
get to see a lot of theaction from a lot of different angles,
um and be on calls that noone else is on it so I can
fill and catto. So it's umuh so it's a it's a really interesting

(15:22):
role that like you know, iscertainly helpful, incredibly help with me looking
back on it in terms of whatisland for being in that role. That's
really like that's kind of the perfectnothing you weren't working and busy, but
that's the perfect kind of like flyon the wall position. It sounds like
to just kind of learned all theall the ins and outs of what's going
on to make this thing. AndI'm sure they're constantly discussing things with Vancouver

(15:46):
that canon can't happen and just likeyou must be getting a slice of all
of it. That's awesome, yeah, exactly, And it's to you know,
filan Catto's credit. You now,not every showers job is the same,
just as if not every showner isthis is the same, you know,
certainly not. Um, there arenot so great showners out there who
are you know, play things closeto the best or um or you know,

(16:07):
aren't necessarily very kind to their showers, like you know, Phil Kiddo,
Like you know, I like fromthe from the very jump, I
had such an easy relationship with bothof them, Like even Kiddo obviously having
owner for years, but even withPhil it was just like a very just
easy kind of transition transition in andworking relationship. And I think you know,
speaks to really speaks to them andlike how can well they ran it

(16:30):
where you know we made we madewere I thought, um and believe is
to be a really great season oftelevision on top of a prior great season
of television, but in a waythat felt you know, ethical and kind
of led by um thoughtfulness and notyou know, working until the odd hours
of the night. You know,we we we got, we get what

(16:51):
we need and during the day um, and and then we go on to
live our lives. Very cool.UM. So you sort of mentioned this
little bit um, a few minutesago. But one of the things I
think we wonder the most while we'rerecording this podcast, because we're always talking
about how like crazy things are andhow insane it must be, UM,
is sort of like what it's likein the writer's room. UM, Like

(17:12):
is it wacky and crazy? Isit like surprisingly calm for as crazy as
the show is? Like, canyou set the scene? Yeah? I
mean it's interesting for me, youknow, coming into a show where,
um, you know, it hada very pre established report you know where
like six six seasons prior of UM, of a lot of the same people.

(17:34):
Uh, but five seasons of thatwas spent you know in person,
you know, having that kind ofclassical like everyone's in in the uh in
the writer's room with pandias writing stuffon white boards. Uh and coming into
a zoom room. UM. Uh. You know, it's it's a different

(17:55):
it's different thing because you know,you can't have that sort of easy back
for if you have to let people, uh you know, have their say
and it kind of keep it goingand then then the next person talks,
and then the next person talks.So it's on the one hand, I
think, you know, UM,in my experience, like like especially you
know, because we were able toat least get together on occasion in person.

(18:17):
You know, like there's just likeyou don't get the you know,
the sidebar conversations. You don't getto kind of have that kind of that
riffing. I mean, there wascertainly some of it still, you know,
because you know, you can't nothave that at some point. But
I think the upside is it kindof really kept this pretty focus and structured
for the time that we were there. You know, we weren't like just
I think they'll get a really smartto recognize, like no one wants to

(18:38):
be on a zoom for like sixhours in a row, So like we
kept possessions tight and short, andit really kind of kept this focus.
But still there was you know alot of fun, a lot of laughter,
and just like yeah, going onthose like kind of really crazy tangents
that ultimately we're about, like,Okay, how do we break this story,
how do we service this character,or how do we like get our

(19:00):
show where we need to get itgoing within like a very specific sort of
thing. I mean, I thinkyou know, every writer of these days
will say like they had their opinionson like whether zoom room is better or
not given certain things. But Ithink our show was one where it worked
because for the most part it wasa show of veterans, so like there

(19:21):
wasn't sort of like a that itwas already PreO Savage story that there wasn't
sort of like the artifice of liketwelve strangers in the room. It was
like a lot of people who kneweach other, but the people who didn't
know each other would never you know, kind of isolated the newcomer writers and
supports stats on the show. Itwas very always like welcoming, and I
think and upsite for us as supportsstap is like was that we got to
be in the rooms every day andlike listen to all the pitches and contribute

(19:45):
our own pitches in a way whereyou know, if we were in person,
I would have been at a deskfor most of the day and making
sure I was going to be beingon it. But like FLEU, just
sit at this desk that I'm herenow and be there on on that zoom
and step away when I need too. But I was always kind of in
there. I didn't see the shipseason taking shape. That's that's so cool

(20:06):
um to that point that you literallyjust said that that you were pitching and
whatnot throughout, which was a question. I was like, how much were
you kind of allowed to speak inis there like now is the time to
take full credit on the record,no tasties backseas. Was there like a
specific story nugget or joke or whateverthat you threw out that you made it
in the that like maybe like thefirst one that you're like, oh,

(20:29):
yeah, I did that, that'smine. I want I'm trying to remember
now, um what pitch and whereI mean. I remember we had a
kind of secondary room kind of justbecause of logistical reasons and production needs,
like we were breaking the few writersin my spend myself, we're breaking the

(20:52):
one hundredth episode, uh, separatefrom the rest of the room, um,
and so like because of that,you know, I think that was
like my first real taste of likeking A really just like WOLB, a
lot of ideas, like too many, you know, I didn't want to
kind of take up like certainly asa sports up. I didn't want to
take up all the auction in theroom. Like I can't recall at this
point, like what I've pitched andlike if any of it um like kind

(21:15):
of survived. It's also one ofthose things where like, you know,
like any initial pitch usually kind ofends up evolving anyway and turns into something
that wasn't what was originally pitched.Even like film and Ketto, you know,
they're they're very democratic and like inpitching and seeing if the room itself
likes it and you know, likethen kind of massaging it and turning it

(21:36):
into whatever works best for the show. I remember that Curse Mine was like
I think us figuring out like thefinal showdown with the Robo Legends and like
kind of figure it like in Sarajevoand figuring out like a lot of the
Just Six, And like, Ithink I had an idea for for how
robo Astra comes back to horribly namedGideon, and I think what I originally

(22:00):
envisioned was something I think like shelike had like a hole blown in her
robot stomach and so you think,oh, she's she's done, She's it's
over for her, and then shegets back up and you know, like
very Terminator style. And obviously thatchanged as we actually you know, we're
uh Cameron who wrote that episode,but as was going through the writing and
going in production, things changed.But I think it was like a cool

(22:23):
moment where like I kind of encapsulatethe experience where like you pitched the initial
idea which is like um which Ithink uh sparked something and even though it
wasn't exactly that sort of like kindof created the right conversation where it's like,
oh, bout if we did itthis way and like you know,
like this is this is gonna workreigistically? Do we have to like kind

(22:45):
of shift things around? Is thiskind of make sense budget wise? Um?
So I thought that was. Ithink that was a really good encapsulation
of what it can be. Likeum uh, from pitch to the actual
story itself. What an awesome firstkind of episod so to jump off one
but the one hunters too, likethat must be the one kind of right,
Yeah it was. It was alot, a lot of fun and

(23:07):
you know, like it was sucha challenge too, because you know,
I think as you're bringing the episodeis also uh you know still figured like
negotiating els contracts and so available constantly. Well let's hope it all works out
because now we have to u completelychange a plot. U frans were like
square one. Yeah, and uh, I would say, like one thing

(23:30):
I was really fummed about was theTime Buro manual. That was a big
part of the early episodes of seasonseven. Um, a fun part of
being sports sometimes they asked the rightkind of a lot of this stuff that
is not like part of you know, like the kind of the copy of
any sort of like production design anduh, and the stuff that I pause

(23:51):
and go over like crazy exactly okay, continue and we me and a few
of the are a few of thesports f and I we all like took
cracks like writing pages in the Timefor Real manual and like we just kind
of just ran away with that,uh and just like made the most absurd
like sort of like scenarios and whatnot, like you know, like what what

(24:14):
what do you do if you sleepwith Ganga's Khan and all that sort of
stuff, and uh, it wasa bummer that like you could never you
never really got to see it onscreen. But um, that was a
that was a particularly fun a littleexercise for for all of us. That's
that's amazing, Like that's the typeof thing that I want to hear about
someday, you know, like justlike, well, so what did you
call what was rule thirty three ofthe time period. Um So, one

(24:38):
of the cool things that you guysto do was work on one of the
DC's Legends of Tomorrow entry into theEarth Prime Comics series. Um So we're
kind of curious, like how didthat like become a thing? Do you
remember when it first started? Howyou got involved in that in that issue?
Yeah, I, um, Iremember. I think the kind of

(24:59):
the this was that, um obviously, you know, there were the traditional
yearly crossovers between all these shows,and because of the pandemic, there wasn't
really any sort of opportunity to dothat. Like they were very short about
like how like like about any sortof like the cross contamination so to speak.

(25:22):
That's and so there was really nolive action cross around the table.
So I think I couldn't tell youhow. The conversation is kind of gterminated,
but it was kind of ultimately decidedlike, oh, like what we
should do because it's way more feasible, is to do like a comic Space
crossover, just incorporating all different ARABSshows that were current airing at the time,

(25:45):
and like doing yeah, like asix issue run, a crossover run
that like the kind of mimic whatwe did in the show or we did
in the live action Averse shows.But um, and obviously because we were
doing com form, we were ableto like have certain sort of creative femes

(26:06):
wouldn't have been able to do otherwise, like like do stories that would have
broken the budget the budget of anyone of our shows or all of our
shows collectively at once, but incomic form naturally there was more versatility there.
Uh, And so that was kindof them how that was coming about.
And um all credit to Filming Kettolike um, when it came down

(26:30):
to figuring out like every you know, every show was supposed to offer up,
you know, some of their writersto potentially uh do the comic.
Filing Ketto um nominated myself and ourscript cremated Warren and they were like,
hey, you guys want to writea DC comic And we're like, yeah,
we do yea. And so thatwas kind of like the beginning of

(26:53):
how we got put forward. Someof the other shows put forward some of
their actual like staff writers. Butit's really grateful to feeling it up for
putting us up for to represent Legends. Again, it sounds like a testament
to them because I know one ofthe Saprana loves writers that that did their
comic, but he's he's a staffwriter, Like he has a few episodes

(27:14):
too, So it's nice that thatthey kind of shared, they shared the
wealth a little bit with that.But yeah, you know, um,
and I think, you know,it's obviously you know, uh, like
we were on a tighter like tighterseason order this uh that year, and
so like there were you know,I think you know, like I think
the coming the joy of network televisionand like especially like you know, the
plant he shows. Um. Ithink historically it's like, you know,

(27:37):
they've always been so great about likegiving freelance episodes their supports staff where they
can, um, and things werea little tougher for Legends this year.
So I think it was also partlytwo like, oh, like this is
a great opportunity to give for supportsstaff that writing shot that they are obviously
here for and you know, theculture behind their person being network television was

(27:59):
history really good about it was Itwas very I was very gratifying to think
of the opportunity that's that's really cool. Was it your first time writing a
comic script? It was not.It's the first thing that I have.
I have a very complicated history withcompic writing. Now's the time, man,

(28:22):
It's like it's hard to like sustinctlydescribe. At the time, I
was also writing a graphic novel fora really big publisher that uh since then
has shuddered there that division of originalgraphic novels. And so my my book
was unceremoniously canceled. We're trying towe're trying to save it, but sorry

(28:45):
to hear it. But okay,um, So, like you know,
I was kind of deep in it. You know, I have a prior
job of mine dealt with a lotof com book stuff on the editorial side,
so I was already kind of prettyfamiliar and comfortable with com book writing.
So like, I think that's somethingI brought to the table. I
and my partner she formed. It'slike, I mean, you know,
she's a fantastic writer, so likeI just kind of had to briefly like

(29:06):
kind of like like, hey,like this is like how kind of how
com book writing works. And youknow, she obviously ran away fit and
did an awesome job, and ofcourse we had our great editor Andrew Rino
to also just kind of keep aneye on things. So I'm certainly no
expert at it, but I'm gladI didn't. I wasn't like jumping in

(29:27):
cold to that yeah sort of format. Okay, so sorry, I'm deep
into a graphic novel right now myself. And it's like for people that don't
know, like you can look uponline what a TV script looks like or
what a movie script, and theylook pretty much the same. A comic
script can look like that, itcan look like pros something like. It's

(29:47):
kind of like a form that isnever truly satisfied or solidified. Excuse it
seems like a lot of people doa lot of different things like what what
does your comic script look like?Like? What do you prefer? Part
of it is influenced by my timeworking for Robert kirkman Um, you know,
who created a Walking Dead and thesport and so like I saw had

(30:07):
the way he wrote scrips, whichyou know, he had a very particular
sort of template. Uh like youknow that was kind of born out of
like you know, years and yearsof doing it. So like I kind
of was always really impressed with likethe way like he was just like very
comfortable in that format and just likehad like had like a like the mind
for it. Um. And solike I kind of took inspiration of that,

(30:30):
not like you know, not exactlycopping him, but like, um,
I want to say I used GregCox uh template which he had online,
which um, which was based onusing word documents and um, and
just like having that sort of specificthing, and so I think, UM,
I want to say that I trackedthat down uh and UH gave to

(30:52):
Lord and we kind of use thatas our kind of like guiding guiding north
star so to speak, in termsof formatting. UM. And for me,
like you know, it is interestingbecause uh, you know we were
co writing it, and you know, we were kind of trading like doing
we had I had one half,she had another half, and we take
passive to each other's hands and Ikind of figured all that out. Um.

(31:15):
But like also um, yeah understandinglike the kids like how much are
we are we saying exactly? Andyou know, for for me, like
I kind of took this principle oflike, oh, I have to imagine
that the script is more like aletter to uh like quite literally, like
a not love letter, but likea very like like uh like very involved

(31:38):
missive to another person. In thiscase, our artists are our penciler just
saying like you know, it's almostlike conversational, yeah, saying like like
quite literally sometimes like hey, solike, uh, this is what exactly
where I'm thinking, but this islike when I'm envisioning, like I would
even include hyperlinks to reference images ifI thought they irrelevant. Um, but

(32:01):
like you know, if there's somethingelse that you think make works better for
your style and like like you know, like more power to you and you
know, and so like that ummade it too. Like yeah, it
was like you know, it's weweren't always getting back exactly what was being
written, but oftentimes it was umbetter that better than what we could have

(32:22):
hoped for. So it's it's yeah, it's like that interesting kind of sort
of like uh, back and forth, but like it's it's it's like a
conversation of sorts. Yeah. Thatis the fun part about the medium too,
where it's like if you're working withan artist you trust, it is
just like here's my idea. Feelfree to go wherever you want to go.
You know, this isn't it.I was really to Paul player are

(32:46):
Pencili for the primary book, Um, he's a DC vet and so like,
uh like he kind of really justum you know, jump right in
uh and like kind of is reallyinteresting to see, is to see the
way he kind of interpreted like,you know, characters who aren't exactly DC

(33:06):
characters as we as we know themin the comics, but they're err reversus
incardinations and kind of putting that sortof like classic DC spin on it.
I would really love what he whatdo you do with it? And you
know, for us, you know, I think is also both freeing and
really challenging, you know where likeI think we have the most out of
all the shows. Um, Ithink one of our strength was the most

(33:28):
elastic tone. Um, like wherewe can kind of be really dramatic or
go via really bit goofy, andlike there's not much of a whiplash because
it's so baked into the DNA ofthe show and the premise. Muh and
uh. So like I think embracingthat methodology and like and of course having

(33:50):
Phil and Kato's full support, umin terms of what we got to the
storty we got to tell. Thatreally helped us creatively, but at the
same time, the challenges that weremidway through production on season seven, so
like our story had to kind ofconstantly be tweaked a little bit as things
got went on, like finding waysto kind of incorporate elements of the season

(34:10):
because we couldn't like just tell likea like a oh like and in between
episodes five and six, Like Ijust wanted to do this because like,
well, they're they're trapped in timeand running around going from from location location
in a single time period. Solike, um so, even though that
kind of close off the door forus in terms of telling a big like

(34:32):
main cast legends cast story, uh, it was a bussing in the skies
in that like it forced us andand and it allowed us to kind of
revisit the well of all the oldlegends that would have been really difficult to
like get together all together in theshow proper. So why not just throw
them all back in the mix andsee what they're what they were up to.

(34:54):
Were there any like specific like musthaves that you wanted to make sure
you left room for in the story, because obviously you're bringing back all of
these things that we've seen previously arethese characters were like, absolutely, we
must have room for this, Wemust make fun of Hawkman. So the
Hawks actually really really really wanted back. I think Ray Ray we always knew

(35:19):
was probably going to be the bestway in as a sort of primary protagonist
of the story, just kind ofjust in terms of like his character,
Like you know, it would makesense that he would kind of be the
one to jump really jump back infirst and bring the other lsions back into
the orbit. But I really wantedto take a crack at Hawkman and Hawk

(35:39):
Girl, partly because I think theynever got the chance to flourish. I
think the way out, like allthe other characters in the show did um
since they left the season one,Like it was like a fun excise to
imagine, like, oh um,what would it be like to put Hawkman
and a Hawk Girl into season seven? Like what what kind of characters would

(36:02):
they be? Like, you know, in season seven the legends as supposed
to season one, you know,which was a bit totally different, And
so that was kind of not necessarilylike like I wouldn't have like, you
know, wroughte a fit if likewe couldn't have used them, but I
think it was great of the DCkind of and you know, everyone of
the CD was like, yeah,just like whoever you could fit in there,

(36:23):
just go for it, like cool, like we're just gonna go for
broke. That is awesome. Andit also, like you kind of mentioned
it earlier, but I assume usingthese characters meant that you could have a
little more freedom. But were yougiven any guidance or you know, script

(36:44):
approval's notes or whatever from ketto philMark Gugenheim fill in the blank. Yeah,
I mean we certainly had to runthing, every everything by our editor
at DC, Andrew also some otherapprovals from people in the DCTB side,

(37:04):
um, you know, just tomake sure that we weren't doing anything like
so far out of balance, butalso making sure that we were setting up
dominoes for um from gash and youknow, the kind of like the broad
overarching story of the Crossover. Butit was a nice set like that we
didn't have to do a ton ofit. Um, you know, like
they were like okay, like wekind of were given the freedom to kind

(37:28):
of tell this kind of like crazyadventure traveling traveling to Gary's home planet.
Uh, and like uh, andlike just understanding like oh, like you
know, um, at the endof the day, like there are seeds
we need to plant for to teeup the rest of the crossover. But
other than that, we had alot of freedom. And yeah, there
are a few there are a fewthings we had to change, but like

(37:51):
no major story beats, Like itwas ultimately kind of uh, it evolved
kind of very naturally. Yeah,and by by virtue of legends in the
story you're telling you kind of gotto save that stuff for like the last
page or two, yes, whichis also like very classic legends, you
know, totally like just kind oflike, well, we're just off being
idiots. The day is saved andnow we got portaled to something else is

(38:14):
collapsing, okay, like like we'llhelp out where we can. I think
that's kind of very much in thesphere of the way the show is functioned
right on, right? Can weget into some nerdy questions real quick about
Sorry, I re read it againlast night and I was truck where you
got to you got to kind ofestablished Kendra and Carter as having some sort

(38:37):
of Tanagarian past lives, which likewas that a decision that you made thinking
like, oh, this is howthey kind of would have evolved. They
would have had to kind of keepadding layers to that story as the seasons
went on, like what where didthat come from? Yeah, I mean,
I'm trying to recall where that genesisreally came from. I mean,
and ultimately, you know, weknew obviously there was the back story that

(39:00):
was establishing season one, and weknew that like kind of this idea that
the Thanagarians the species existed somewhere outthere in the universe, um uh sending
their sky rocks to ancient Egypt exactly. And so like, you know,
we knew like we weren't gonna dolike any sort of like crazy payoff of
any big payoff of any mythosum.But it was just kind of more like

(39:23):
an opportunity to kind of um likekind of just like expand upon them a
little bit and maybe like more toinform the idea that they have they've kind
of really figured their stuff out intowhen they left the show, and when
we see them la in the comic, like that they've that they're still being
superhero, that they've still like youknow, they understand more about their past

(39:45):
and their powers and and all thissort of stuff and kind of really got
to kind of reclaim their lives ina way, um and which I thought
was was would be fun. Andit also gave us that sort of freedom
were like we kind of took awayor rather we kind of um showed or

(40:06):
hinted that, like they were ableto work through a whole lot of wacky
bird people, baggage, carding andbaggage, and I've come out on the
side a little a little healthier andhappier, right, But yeah, it
was one of those things too.Were like reading it, like as I
was going as a as a fan, I'm like, yeah, thanagarian of
course, wait a minute, thingnever, oh that's cool, Like it
was. It took me a minuteto kind of recognize it, but right

(40:30):
on it was it was like myfavorite little detail of like, oh that's
really just in there to show thattime has passed. It's cool. I
want to yeah, and like,uh, I think Lauren really ran away
with some of those uh nick gags. I want to say, like there's
just like some zingers in there thatwere entirely of our, of our own
creation. The other thing that Ilove too, um, you know you

(40:54):
we've talked mostly about the the XLegends of Tomorrow. I think it is
then the story, the main storyin the book. And then there was
the kind of Booster goal side storytoo. Yeah, how he gets caught
by the time police. Um inthat you've got Booster talking to like stand
in. I think it's a helmetstand in for Skets. YEA. Was

(41:17):
where did that come from? Likewas their talk at that point of like
we're going to try to do withSkeets in season eight or was that you
just going, like, you knowwhat, he would have it? This
is him left it behind somewhere.I'm trying to recall like exactly the beginning
of the conversation, but like,I think you know, there was obviously
we brought Donald Faison on the seasonseven like with every intention of having him

(41:42):
be a huge part of season eight. Um. And you know, for
me, as a fan of Booster, like I knew that, like you
know, you can't have boosterfout Skeets. And so it's kind of like a
question of like, well, whatwould our version of Skeets look like?
Is like he like is he likehis kind of classic little a floating robots
self? Is he something else inour show is that the um and so

(42:07):
nothing was ever fully set in stone, but um, the timing of uh,
you know, because our we wrotethe Booster story a lot later than
the rest of the of the mainstory, and so like we kind of
had the benefit of like like youknow, hindsight, but also just like
you know, we thought that itwas a really exciting opportunity to kind of

(42:30):
help tee up what what season eightcould be while not locking Fill and Ketto
and the writers into anything too specific. So like, you know, having
skeets as like as like this likehelmet, which just not would be such
a fun little gag, you know, it's like his like Wilson. By

(42:52):
doing that, we knew that weweren't locking the show into any sort of
specific design for skeets and just likekind of giving them a little freedom to
kind of run of that. Andso that was partly the design of skeets,
but also, you know, partlyof design of the the storytelling.
It's like getting Booster someone to kindof riff off of too and provide exposition
and what what skeets is there forin the first place? Really, yes,

(43:14):
exactly right, Yeah, I feellike I don't know if you were
a small Bill fan, Like seasonten is small though, they did a
Booster episode where Skeets is just hislittle like um ear fob thing, and
I'm liked it would have been betterthan like, you know, yeah exactly,
like his version of Siri, Yeahexactly. Yeah. You know,

(43:36):
it's the limitations of old network Coloradand uh, you know it's it creates
some it creates some fun, funlittle quirks. Everyone's doing what they can
up in Vancouver and making it happen. You know, it's all yeah,
yeah, yeah, you know,we weren't going to have like boosters like
classic like suit like I'm having flyingaround shooting shooting lasers, but at least,

(43:59):
like you know, in in ourstory, were all kind of you
know, like it was. Itwas really like easy and sort of like
perfect tea up of like how didBooster get arrested? All that sort of
stuff. It was like yeah,like and like using it as an opportunity
to tea up story Threats for seasoneight was kind of just like a well
might as well, and it wasalso an opportunity to kind of bring back
Charlie, who we could figure outa way because like we quite literally had

(44:22):
every single X legend on the table, uh for the first story of the
primary story, but it was itwas a matter of a like how many
is too many? Like you know, like a certain point do we just
not have like do we just likelike it becomes too much chaos, too
much of a cast, But alsolike questions of logic of like well,

(44:44):
would it make sense for them tosomehow be on this team given where we
last left this character or that character, and so um. The Charlie thing
was very much like a perfect excuseto like be able to seat Charlick for
a little bit and just like howthis fun little sort of war of like,
oh yeah, Booster and Charlie youknow each other. Apparently yeah that

(45:06):
Booster knows about the legends. Youknow. It's like a like all that
sort of like tiny whiney like nonsensethat that that's so great about the show.
It was just like another little wayto kind of lean into it.
Awesome. It's also just like thisgreat little added a little bit because we
get so little of Donald Faison atall, you know, in the final
episodes, which is nice to kindof fill out that character and I have

(45:30):
a little more time with them,and I know, I was so happy
to get to write that story,and so by mistake, you wrote kind
of the last piece of Legends.It's awesome, pretty interesting. I feel
like it's kind of surreal that yousort of accidentally wrote the last round before
I'm starting to join people. Waslike, yeah, I think I was
a bad look charm for that show, because right, I mean, I

(45:51):
was the only one to join.But it's fun to say, like,
yeah, I got that show.No, no, it was put to
rest by by a true fan.It's all good, all right, Lightning
lighting Round. We've reached the endportion, which is our Legends Lightning Round.
Um. Some quick questions for youto answer with as little thought as
you can possibly put in, althoughthe first few are a little more difficult

(46:15):
than our later few. Very specific, yeah, very specific. So Scared
now Part one? So where didGwyn Davies come from? Was he in
the mix already when you came onboard? I want to I want to
say yes. I think you know, we knew we needed a time time
with ficionado who could rescue Legends,and we still wanted Matt Ryan on the

(46:37):
show. So it's kind of likea very just like of course, and
like also giving an opportunity kind ofplay someone a little bit more like a
very different character, you know,which is a joy of the show.
The night we first met was theday or day after the announcement came out
of like Matt still on the showand he's playing Gwyn Davies. And when

(46:58):
you said like legend, it wasjust like I gotta know about that.
It was all I could do thatnight to like not geek out on your
hard and be like what accent ishe gonna do? Like who is he?
You know, like all this stuffso so very cool. Was there
that Pie in the Sky pitch thatwas done in the room by whoever that
you loved that for whatever reason didn'tmake it into the show? God?

(47:21):
Um what was there? And Iknow we're asking you to think back like
two or three years at this point, so abologize Pine the Sky, Pine
the Sky? Uh that that thatthat? I feel like there were um
uh, I don't get a goodwe're saying this. I think we uh
there was an idea to make atwo parter involving Thomas Edison. Uh and

(47:47):
just like a bunch of like chaos, like you know, like just like
in the early stages of the showwhen we were like, you're like,
how when are they gonna get backto the wave righter and do a lot
of stuff? And I think wewere going down some crazy ideas of like
Thomas Essmon is like this like abig bad guy, uh that we have
to deal with for like like amultipart arc um and that that that of

(48:09):
all. But I thought that wasa lot of a lot of fun,
and like I want I know theywere like crazy ideas for the hundredth that
we were kind of germinating on thatI can't tell I liveally couldn't tell you
what what any of them were,just because like I remember the emotion of
like I don't even so cool,but yeah, no one's complaining it ended

(48:31):
well yeah it um okay, thisis exclusively for me. Uh, Spooner
and Astra are they galphals or girlfriends? Are they friends? Or are they
in love? Oh no? Ohoh this is this is gonna get me
in trouble. I am of thepersonal opinion that they are best friends forever

(48:51):
and ever, but they are not. They are not girlfriends. But okay,
but you know, like there's likeif there's one thing about Legends,
it's like, you know, everything'svery little fluid. Everything everyone's got a
little like got a little by curiositygoing on. You know, everything's a
little fluid. Is a great tech. Anything that you remember, I mean

(49:13):
feel free to say, like youcan't say or whatever, but anything that
you remember from early talks of seasoneight um or was it just at that
point, like, well, let'sget him out of jail and see what
happen happens from there? Um uh? Season eights there was a lot of
talk about what, yeah, whatexactly is the jail that they're going to,

(49:36):
like is it like like or isit going to be remedial, like
here's how to be a good bettertime traveler ominous? Uh And obviously a
lot of conversations about like where weum take characters like uh, like Gideon,
Um, I'm gonna probably say uhagain, I hope I don't can't

(50:00):
tell what I'm saying this. Therewas not always a guarantee that Gideon would
have made it to the end ofthe season. Uh. Like they're like,
you know, as as a humananyway, but um uh as I
think it happens with a lot ofLegends characters become very beloved, like like
we just kind of fell in lovewith the character and getting to see Amy

(50:21):
Pemberton really flex her muscles for anentire seasons, like it will be crazy
not to have or keep going,um and so like it was a lot
of like exciting ideas, but likewhy or can we take someone like Gideon
now, um you know now thatshe's a full blown legend and uh and
all that sort of stuff. Sothat those are some of the big conversations

(50:42):
we were having for season eight thatI thought were super super exciting. Uh
and like you now paying off someof my stuff, like like exploring more
things about like you know, Sarah, Sarah's could and you know, like
all that, like but that's allI'll say about that. Yeah, oh
yeah. The Sarah pregnant in jailstoryline is something that we were all robbed

(51:06):
of, Like would love pregnant atall would be hilarious? Yeah, there
was, there was. We werereally hoping to get some mind some comedy
out. Black could do comedy outof that, but also some steaks of
course. So we're doing part twoof the Lightning Round, which is all
which is all about your favorite sonice and simple but obviously difficult choices for
all of us. Favorite season Imean, obviously I have a credible soft

(51:29):
spot for season seven being but butI will say season three, Season three
my favorite favorite episode. Oh favoriteepisode. Wow, that's an early one.
Uh the Good, Bad and theCugley is up there, um up

(51:49):
up up other episodes about a cully. I really loved Sarah NIVA's reunion episode
where they go back to to theum. Uh yeah, and yeah I
think those are two. Those twolike very particularly like like instantly pop into
mind. Cool favorite villain Damian Dark. Yeah, like that's just this is

(52:16):
there's really no other answer. Greatvillains, but Damian Dark really difficke um.
Favorite relationship this can be uh,you know, romantic relationship or you
know time bros. Or whatever.Yeah oh yeah yeah um uh. I
actually have a really weird saucepot forConstantine and Gary. Uh since it was

(52:42):
never really romantic. Yeah, there'slike awkward friends with benefits for like,
like it wasn't they weren't even reallyfriends at least from Constantine's perspective, and
something about that I found very relatableand kind of very funny. Uh.
And so I always thought like,oh, this is this is really cute.
Yeah, I still go back tolike the day they met though he's

(53:06):
Constantine's playing D and D by theend of that day, and I'm like,
there's something you like about this guy. They have something going on.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely favorite legendoritelegend. Um. It'll always be Sarah,
you know, like from her earlydays of the Canary to now like

(53:30):
um and like you know, sheshe practiced the same marshat that I do.
So like I have just a strong, strong love for Sarah. Right
and with that, you've survived yourlatest bat on the wave rider here man,
thank you so much, very veryvery stressful, stressful. I don't
know if you can talk about this, but like, what's what's going on

(53:52):
for you now? I think somethingon the side of the distinguished competition was
the last i'd seen. Yeah,so I'm waiting to officially officially close the
deal by I'm gonna write an adultanimated series from Netflix the pilot anyway,
and amazing h produce it if itgoes to series. Um. So I'm

(54:16):
eagerly awaiting the final contract for that. But we've we've Netflix and my team
of officially kind of agreed on theterms. So that's kind of like the
big project at that going on.Um, I don't even know about that.
That's so cool. Congratulations. It'svery difficult to keep a secret,
but it's it's just getting to thatpoint where like it's not really a secret

(54:38):
anymore, like I can talk aboutit, Okay. Um. This also
doesn't come out for like another monthand a half or some so yeah,
it would be very public knowledge,like you know, holy shit, congratulations.
Yeah, yeah, it's it's youknow, I'm making a big I'm
kind of making a very sudden andvery exciting but terrifying jump into like full

(55:00):
time writing and um like uh andin a way I wasn't really expecting.
Um, you know, I'm doinga stuff from writing a video game.
I'm like circling around like some someshows to hopefully maybe staff on like and
if it works out like time wiseand contract wise, like separate from the
Netflix thing. But um, it'skind of like a yeah, like a

(55:22):
like a very sudden change in mylife where like you know, last year,
like or at the end of lastyear going into the beginning of this
year, it was like what's whatis it? Is it over? Like
should I just give up like youknow, taking taking some losses and all
that sort of stuff and um andall credits to like you know, like
you know, my husband and mymanager for like keeping me keeping my head

(55:45):
above water. Um uh but alsolike too, like I think you know,
um, I don't think I wouldhave been able to get to this
point without the projects I worked onpast, particularly Lugins and particularly um my
show before after that Spider Man Freshmanyear. Like the things I've learned from
those two shows, um were monumentaland in terms of like helping Micraft wouldn't

(56:12):
have gotten to this point without thoseshows. And uh yeah, I don't
know. It's it's a full disclosure. The Spider Man thing is what I
was going for. I had noidea thiss Netflix Like that is so huge,
man, congratulations, So excited tosee that happen for you, Thank
you, thank you. Yeah,and Spider Man. I can't wait for
people to see that when I comeback next year. I guess yeah,

(56:34):
three years from now, when theinnovation's done. I really can you guys
came from. All I can sayfor now is that is it looks really
gorgeous. It looks like a oldSteve dicko. Um hm, comic come
to life really like three D andit's like it's like fun and emotional and
like it's very takes various by places, incredible cast. Um that like some

(56:59):
of those cast members, I'm justlike, oh man, this is nuts
and sad I had to I hadto leave it, but I love working
on that show. It's but whata beautiful like full circle with this conversation
started with like it I think Itold that sam Ami story in my interview
and I think it clinches a pealfor me. Yeah, I bet.

(57:20):
But what an awesome like truly,that was the last project you worked until
you kind of jumped to this newlevel. Like that's that's awesome, dude,
so so excited for you. Um, thank you for taking the time
to do this. Yeah, no, this is this is actually I mean
not that I wasn't expecting it tobe a lot of fun, but it
was truly really wasn't looking forward towasn't sure. Um, thank you again.

(57:47):
If you want people to follow you, we will put stuff in show
notes. If not, leave themalone, everybody, like just let them
be. But Dan, thank youso much, and that that brings us
to the end. Of another episode, but tune in next time, and
please remember, do not call uspodcasters. We're legends. Always hold On
To DC's Legends of Tomorrow is producedby Zach Moore as part of the Always

(58:10):
Hold Onto podcast family. Listen toZach's other great podcasts wherever you're hearing this,
and check out even more podcast actionon the Always hold on to Smallville
Patreon page. You can find moreLegends goodness on social at Legends of Always,
and feel free to send us anemail at Legends of Always at gmail
dot com, hashtag save a hotto clot and rate and review us in
app Please do that, please,please please you beautiful nerview, thanks for

(58:34):
listening. One try huh? Ilove that? Oh my god, the

(58:57):
perfect doctro masacrews it up every time