012: 5x14, The One Where They're Trapped On TV (BINGO SPECIAL #1)

Welcome to our first official BINGO SPECIAL!

The Fates are taking a break and letting the listeners vote for their favorite of your Co-Captains’ picks! This deeply unfocused conversation covers everything from past TV obsessions, Star Trek nerd levels, and Dominic Purcell’s Emmy-worthy hair toss.

Follow us on socials @legendsofalways and send us an email at [e-mail].

Matt Truex is a Warner Bros. Discovery employee. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are his own and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Warner Bros. Discovery.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
So, Matt, um, whatwhat kind of mush do you have there?
Um? Well, in this particularglass, I'm thinking it's more of
a Southern mash mush if that soundsokay. So so cheers, cheers to
your mush. I have a dietdiet mush over diet mush. Here's to
you, happy Bingo Special, Tricia, it is our Bingo Special. Uh

(00:41):
let's let's get into the show here. Um, hello and welcome to Always
Hold On DC's Lessons of Tomorrow.As Matt already said, the Bingo Special,
I'm one of your co captains,Trish Ennis, I'm the other one.
Um this, I'm the other one. I'm not gonna gloat, I'm
not, but I'm really happy.So have you ever watched Jane the Virgin?

(01:03):
I have? Yes, Okay,so I'm mid season three. Oh
and yesterday we knew we had towatch this, and my wife Kat watched
it with me. But she's like, do you want to watch do you
want to Jane first? I'm like, this is odd for her. She
Usually she'd want to do like,you know, quote unquote work first and
then we can watch a Jane orwhatever. I'm like, yeah, let's

(01:23):
do that winds up being the episodethree ten where a major and beloved character
out of fucking nowhere dies and Iwas devastated. Also, some real word
world stuff happened yesterday too, whereI was just like, life has no
meeting, so let's watch Legends,and this picked me right back up again.

(01:44):
So Okay, I'm very glad thatthis is the episode of Recovering.
I'm very glad for you that thisis the episode Recovering. No, I
like this episode two. I'm justa tiny bit bigger bitter that the listeners
did not side with me in ourin our poll. Granted we did not
tell them during the poll who pickedwhich episode, But you got to play.
I mean, yeah, I knowyou gotta. You gotta go for

(02:07):
the broad You know, this isa very broad appeal episode, whereas mine's
very narrow appeal episode. I wantedthe sarah Ava stuff and you got more
team stuff. No, this isa very fun episode. I like that
this is This is the penultimate episodeof season five, and it is ridiculous
for the high concept show. Itcouldn't be higher. Yeah, we'll get

(02:30):
to it. But there's a pointwhere it's like, oh right, they're
not them they're the class versions ofthem, but they're wearing a different costume
because they're on a never show now, Like it's just like hat upon hat
upon hat upon hat, and itstill manages to mean something at the end,
like it blows my mind. Andit relies on you getting a lot
of references. Knowing the show well, knowing all other shows, well,

(02:53):
you know, you have to know, well, you have to understand what
pop culture they are sending up toreally get all the lay years of humor
that they are going for in thisepisode. And by this episode we do
mean episode five fourteen, Season five, episode fourteen, the one where We're
trapped on TV, aired May twentysix, twenty twenty, Written by Grant
Godfrey and James Egan, directed firsttime directing by Mark Guggenheim. And what

(03:19):
a fucking hill he had the climb, and I thought pulled it off very
nicely. Yes, um ratings watchwe are in the under a million days
now, you know, past pastcrisis. I don't think they touched a
million again. But we're at pointseven six, which is which is actually
pretty good for this season from lookingat it generally. But and yet they

(03:44):
still got two more years out ofit. This this was that lucky season.
Lucky you know, if I justsaid it aired in May twenty twenty,
this is COVID life. So thisis the year where like just everything
got renewed, like nobody, nobodywas doing pilots, Like pilot season wasn't
a thing. We need content,Just renew We'll figure out how to shoot

(04:09):
it, hopefully by the end ofthe summer. Yeah. This was also
the season that turned around a secondseason much quicker than or a next season,
much quicker than it had in thepast, like we've watched and finished
because it was like a latecomer tothe to the schedule this season. So
it aired and ended and then pickedup again like like three months or four
months later, which hasn't been inthe CW's thing, which was nice.

(04:31):
As a fan, Oh it wasgreat. I was like, oh great,
Okay, I'll watch more. Um, we have a really big team
at this point. Holy shit,did we have a big team. And
you've broken it down by cast too, which is very fun. I've broken
it down by because this is theepisode where everybody ends up on a different
TV show, So I've broken itdown by where we find them. When

(04:55):
we find them, so we startwith Ultimate Buds and they're faded to hes
fun. So on Ultimate Buds wehave Nate Bhad and Zari, both Zari's
because it starts with fancy ZrI andbecomes flannel Zari. That's fun, and

(05:15):
we'll talk a lot about Zari inthis episode. I compliment how you said
there, because there's there's a milliondifferent ways that it's said on the show,
so I usually just go with Barrod. But like you said it very
nice. I feel like you saidit correctly. I said, I try
to say it like he and Zaripronounce it, yeah, the like yeah
yeah, because I mean there's theBarad went away ultimately, but like that

(05:41):
that feels like the like hard,heavy American accent way of doing it.
I always think of bear Rod,but has to be the one where you're
not trying to put inflection on it. Everybody else just says it that way.
I think the only other person besidesthem that pronounces it the way they
do is Charlie. Oh you're right, yeah, um um Highcastle Abbey.
Yes, we have mister Constantine,who I kept wanting them to do Constantine.

(06:05):
It just felt like that would fitthe era of the m and Lady
Astra logue, and then over onStar Trip we have Sarah Ava and at
the end we get Mick Mick eventually, eventually, by the time you've already
you've forgotten about him. Yeah,there's so much shit going on anyway,

(06:26):
miss one. Meanwhile, in LoomWorld, we have Mona Wu, We've
got Gary who somehow sees through theveil, and of course we've got Clotho
herself, Charlie. Um u usto do a bonus here of mixed dat
Alita and her mother. I forgother mom's name. Yeah, me too.

(06:47):
Uh do you want to take usthrough this recap? Sure? So?
Um this recap is kind of weirdbecause of everything that happens in this
season up to now. So afterthe zombie Apocalypse, literally like the fates
I think cause the zombie Apocalypse,but after I forget how it comes out.
It's a good episode. It isa great episode because they're like immortal

(07:08):
for a day. So after theZombie Apocalypse ends with all of the Legends
except Charlie dying in an English pub, Charlie decides to hand over the Loom
of Fate to her sisters. Theother Fates in an effort to save her
friends. So Ava references this atsome point, but she's like, you
know, she had told Charlie,like given her the time courier. No

(07:29):
one else is making it out ofhere. You have to because you're the
only one of us who can usethe loom and you can just fix it.
And so Charlie's decision to fix it, because she gets there and it's
like all everything's gone to hell andher sisters are already there and she's not
gonna win, is to hand overthe loom pieces, let them weave whatever
fate future they want for the world, except that she does something to save

(07:50):
her friends, and this is whatshe comes up with. This I love
this too because it all comes outof that. We'll cover it when we
eventually cover it. But all thatcomes out to that conversation of like,
what do these people like if youcould do it all again, what do
you want almost right? If youcan choose your fate, what would you
be doing right now? Right?And and John just wants to make sure

(08:11):
that Astra and Natalie are happy,and and Ava and Sarah are pretty happy
with their lives and just want tokeep you know, running around together.
Yeah, exactly. Um, Andand Zari just wants to have a nice
life with a brother and not haveto worry about all this bullshit. Yeah,
and Mick just wants to be acriminal again, and Nick just wants

(08:33):
to be a criminal again. Um, it's just great. Oh god,
damn it. I love this showso much. Where like, they have
this nice little conversation, you don'tthink it's going to lead to anything,
and then they do. It leadsto everything you know of episode where where
you know, we pick up andand Fate World is in full swing.

(08:54):
So this episode is obviously extremely referentialto TV shows. Um, it's referential
to everything. So like, there'sno part of the episode that isn't referencing
something else. So loom World orFate rolled whatever you refer to it as.
Um, I don't think they evername it in the show. Oh
I like loom World. Where didthat come from? Here? Um?
The IMDb trivia okay? Through it? Um? So uh, loom World

(09:16):
is referencing the film adaptation of thenovel nineteen eighty four. So it's all
the favorite. It's all the sameiconography, it's the same visual style,
it's you know, it's all thesame stuff. So yeah, yeah,
where it's like it's not in blackand white, but it might as well
be in black and white, umkind of thing. So like, yeah,

(09:37):
it's referencing directly referencing nineteen eighty four, um, and all of like
the the authoritarian stuff that comes outof it that one, the movie and
sort of the book obviously also beinga reference to communism less. So yeah,
do they have a giant history sanitationmachine in I don't believe they have
one in nineteen eighty four, Butit's basically like the idea is that the

(10:01):
written word is like outlawed and um, and free thought is you know,
is outlawed. And also it's alittle referential to uh these days in terms
of people trying to uh sanitize theway we teach America. I thought you
were making a reference here. Therewas a little posed listener, there was

(10:22):
a little face, and I'm like, what is this? What nineties movie
is she referencing right now? Imean the healthscape we currently yes, yes,
yes, yes, I'm familiar.Okay, where you can't you can't
teach the correct version of history.You have to teach the origin of history
that we approve of. Um,granted in in this in today's world,

(10:43):
we just wouldn't be talking about Spartacusexactly, which I do find it funny.
Do you find it funny that theyreference Spartacus in this episode and literally
two episodes later, Spartacus is onthe spaceship with Sarah. Of course,
but that's the brilliance of the showwhere they know that's coming, so let's
do that, Let's do Spartacus.Yeah, it's perfect. Um love that.

(11:05):
I love that, you know,like the fates are literally doing the
move of like, you know,keep the keep the slaves down by distracting
them with entertainment at night, whichlike goes back to the fucking Egypt should
Yeah. So one of the sorry, Um, one of the things that
I remember reading in the um theIMDb trivia, there was a bunch of
stuff like quotes with Mark Gugenheim umfrom an interview that he gave UM where

(11:30):
one of the things they asked waslike, when you made this episode,
did you think that it was goingto be airing in the middle of COVID
lockdowns where none of us are allowedto leave our homes and we're all stuck
and the only thing we're doing iswatching TV and he was like, nope,
is making our way through the CWapp as best as we can.
Yeah, no, who could seethis coming? But it was oddly oddly

(11:52):
timely then, you know, um, it is crazy to me. I
guess it's it's almost like it feelslike, um, Charlie and the rest
of the Fate's like not really thinkinghe's serious enough, but like Gary seems
to be the only one that cansee through everything that's going on, right,
which does feel like what do weget? Do we wipe Gary's mind?

(12:15):
Yeah? Sure, whatever. Youknow. It strikes me as kind
of like a court Jester fool kindof thing, where like he sees the
truth because no one takes me seriouslytotally. Um or he's a crazy guy.
It's garty or a crazy guy.Get away from me, you freakye
they call me that too. Ilove his hair, by the way.
Oh it's great, Like it's reallykind of jarring to see him Gary undone.

(12:41):
You know, Also, when wasthe last time we saw Mona in
this season? The last time wewould have seen her is the episode where
um it's the Boom where she showsup and she's like shocks to me and
she's like Rebecca Silver has a trolland he's like, I already know because
it's his daughter. Oh yeah,yeah, I forgot about that. Is

(13:03):
that that's not the Romeo VI Juliet, right, so I know she's in
that too. That is Romeo VIJuliet. Okay, cool, Well then
since then, I guess I thinkanyway, it was nice. It's nice
to see her. I kind offorgot that, like, oh yeah,
she comes back for like this oneand maybe the next one, and I
forget now I'm trying to remember ifit is Romeo VI Juliet or not.

(13:26):
I don't know, it's one ofthem. But it's been a minute,
and she's not a regular. No, no, she's only in like four
episodes. I think in season fiveshe had been a regular or a regular
ish in season four. Um,but yeah, she's only in a few
episodes and then and then she nevercomes back. This is then good bye
forever. Yes, pretty much itfor her. We got a spooner now.

(13:46):
Yeah, but it's ill. Yeah, like seeing Mona for this.
I like Mona being able to likesave the day. Yeah, they do
their part, you know, whenthey're not eating their mush mush. Uh
it's I also find it interesting howpeople a different people saying mush. I
just maybe you made me want tobring it up. But because Nate says

(14:07):
mush and most other people say mush. Well, um, I don't know
when to ask this, but we'reabout to jump into our first TV show.
Yes, what's your favorite show likethis on Fate Plus. On Fate
Plus. What's my favorite show?Um? Probably Ultimate Buds? Yeah,

(14:31):
yeah, I think it's the showof them that I'm like if we're also
talking about the shows that they're referencing, Like, so Ultimate Buds obviously referencing
Friends. Of those the three showsor four shows if you count mister Parker's
called the sact that they're referencing.Um, Friends is the only one that
I've really gotten into. Like,I never got into Star Trek, even
though I seem like the kind ofperson who would. Um, yeah,

(14:54):
that's surprisingly I know a lot aboutStar Trek. Yeah, well, I
think we're both probably almost I mighthave a little bit of a leg up
on track with you. But likeI too have not seen like every episode
of the original series or whatever.I've seen like a couple episodes of the
original series. Yeah, I've seen, I've seen a healthy smattering. Um
yeah, Ultimate Buds is the onlyone that I was like obsessed with as

(15:16):
a kid, The ultimate buds ofFriends. Friends. Yeah, Friends is
the one that, like I've seenmultiple times, I can do Friends trivia
like yeah, I'm good even still, like I've I've not been to Friends
church in quite a while, butwe could go toe to toe and might
come out even you know, yeahexactly, m yeah, my friends and

(15:37):
go ahead. Sorry, my friendand I once got really bored um waiting
for like a shuttle from a hotelto show up that we were sitting there.
Like how many episodes of Friends canwe just name off the top of
our heads? Oh, like yeah, the one with when Underdog gets away
or the one where no One's ready. No great episode. Um, this

(15:58):
is half of Friends, though,yeah, this is half of Friends.
We've got It's interesting to me thatthat Baron and Nate are both somehow joey.
There's no they're kind of all ofthem, because Nate makes references to
all three of the guys on Friends, like he he makes a ross reference
when he says, um, I'msorry I missed the kiss because on a

(16:22):
break we were on a break.It almost feels like a like a Seinfeld
the way he says it too.Yeah, yeah, um, because he
does it in a few different wayslike that he says it, but one
of them feels very much like wewere on a break. He talks about
how he's their neighbor and an actor, so that's Joey, and then he
says, could I be any moreof a kiss misser, which is Chandler.

(16:44):
Wow, I didn't even catch it. Yeah, fuck me. So
like they're kind of all of them, um and she. I don't know
that because we don't get to seemuch of Zari's characters. Rachel, she's
kind of both Rachel and Monica atthe same time. Yeah, So it's
it's a little weird the way thatthey put together, but yeah, they're
basically they've they've mushed them all togetherand they've just come up with these characters.

(17:08):
They've mushed them, mushom, mushedthem. Um. The aero ref
is cute. Yeah, I enjoythat And just like from the get with
this, even even in loom World, there the production values in this episode.
It's very impressive set builds and stuff. Yeah, um, the locations

(17:30):
and even like the big fate writeror machine thing that they have for for
loom World is awesome. This isa totally passable budget version of the Friends
set. Yeah, that's obviously smaller, but it looks right and they're shooting
it right and lighting it correctly,you know, Like it's just it's impressive
to me. And the same thingwith the other shows, where like John's

(17:55):
manner is gorgeous anyway, and thenthey set dress it perfectly. Um,
and the idea of we don't haveto build a whole set, we can
use the waverider bridge and just putlike a few more walls and panels in
front of it is also really damncool to me. Like it's just these
are the things that I geek outthem, where I'm like, look at
this little show with this giant fuckingask pull it off, you know,

(18:18):
like, let's do a budget thing. But like they obviously spent probably most
of their money on the Mister Parkerand um and the Ultimate Bud sets and
Friends. Yeah yeah, yeah,but they they they have used the Mister
Parker set before when they did thatepisode. Uh, and they I don't

(18:40):
know if they reuse the sitcom set, but I assume that they do for
the next season for Bearhud's birthday,for bud Sty or what you know what's
that called? Right? Okay,um, yeah, maybe I don't know
sure that you re use the audiencebleachers that's from World who knows, um,
But yeah, it's It's just it'sendlessly impressive to me when a when

(19:04):
a little show like this can pullthis type of thing off in one episode.
Said and again, even the productionstuff where like there's the moment where
she has to take the mush getseverywhere and whatever. Yeah, and she
has to take the totem off andit's a weird close up. That's not
like it's not like Friends wouldn't doa close up on a prop if they

(19:25):
had too, but it's just oddfor a sitcom to do it. And
they play it in the TV onin loom World, Yeah, which I
was just like, what a great, totally acceptable cheat to do that and
like that like get the information outthere but not highlight it, you know,
like hide it as much as possible. It's just really cool to me.
This is the shit I get excitedfor, which is why I was

(19:47):
like this episode. I love thisepisode, you know. Yeah, but
yeah, her her taking off,the totem is sort of like what leads
to flannels? Are you getting released? Yeah? Can is there any explanation
for this? Not really just totemBush? I think it's just totem bullshit,
Okay, I mean the way someonewho's gonna know, and like we've
been building up to this idea ofZari still exists inside the totem, so

(20:12):
like maybe if maybe, if theoriginal Zari doesn't exist in the world or
something, the you know what avacuum for her to escape into basically like
she popped out and then MOUs likethere are no ghost sunnels, ghosts.
Yeah. Um. And I it'sjust it is such a testament to these

(20:37):
actors when they're in these weird setsand these weird costumes or whatever, and
and suddenly Tala is a completely differentperson to me. Yeah, and I
buy it. And it's just like, a I missed this bitch, It's
so good to see you, youknow, like the way that I was
excited the first time I watched thisepisode when it seemed like we were getting

(20:59):
Flannel Azari back. Yeah. Likenothing against fancy Zari. I like her
a lot. She's great and sheespecially grows on me in later seasons,
like as the show keeps going,the more like dimension they give her and
layers they give her, like,the more I like her. Um,
but I I had. I wasso bummed about losing flannels Are because I

(21:21):
liked her so much. And Iwas so excited when we got her back,
like even just for a little bit, because we'd gotten her for like
one piece of one episode previously.M is that where she's got the message
to like come find me. No, well, I guess we'd seen her
for that, But I meant whenwhen Zari goes into the Totem to hang

(21:41):
out, Yeah, and that's whenbe dies and like she comes out and
he's dead. Um. But likeso this is the idea that like,
oh Zari can possibly leave the Totum, Like, oh my god, we
might be getting her back. Ohmy god, what does that mean?
I was so excited. Yeah,I love this episode. Two sets sets
it up where I thought they weregonna go forward and we're just gonna have

(22:02):
two Zaris. We do, butbudget maybe I mean, yeah, maybe
they couldn't use the Technico Dolly thatmuch. So yeah, I don't know.
Um anyway, again, total testamentto Tala where it's just like immediately,
this is a completely different person tome who I haven't seen for a
season, and it's really good tosee her. And like they managed to
cheat enough of the story where likeshe'd had a conversation with with Fancy ZrI

(22:27):
enough that she knows they're up againstthe fates. So she's like, oh,
okay, I got it. Youguys must have gone up against the
spades, yeah and lost that.That's a great line too. The fates
be praised and lost obviously, Andso you're trapped and where does this go
door go to? Which is sucha it's not it's not Monica's closet door,

(22:51):
but it is such a sitcom thingof like sometimes we just don't explain
shit about our set, you know, like you've never opened it. Yeah,
yeah, did you know that thatWill's apartment has like a door to
like the stairwell or a closet spaceright off the kitchen. No, because
if you didn't watch that episode,probably didn't know about that. You know.

(23:11):
Well, it's kind of like everybodywho's like mapped out the Seinfeld said
to be like, this doesn't work, This doesn't make any sense. Yeah,
what hallway is he at the endof the Laws of Physics. Yeah,
that or like Early Friends that thatthat door. I please, I
hope people know this, Uh,the most famous TV show in the world.
I'm sure most people know the doorat the end of her hallway there

(23:34):
in Monica's apartment, Like people usedto enter through that in season one occasionally,
and then it became a closet likeher closet of shame. Yeah exactly.
Yeah, that like was so disorganizedbecause it's like where she shoved things
because we could never open the doorbecause it doesn't go anywhere. But this
one goes to just TV snow,yes for those of you who remember when

(23:57):
your TV's did snow. Oh,I guess, um. And then they
walk through it because they can,I guess, and they crack it and
it becomes the manner and they workright, Yeah, and they walk through
it and it becomes high Castle Abbey. This is the only one of the
TV shows that we're referencing today thatI have absolutely no context for it.

(24:19):
Peace. I mean, like,I know, I know Downton Abbey,
I know what it is. I'venever seen a single episode I've seen I
think like bits of episodes, likeI there were enough people around me who
were so obsessed with it that Iam aware of its work. That's That's
sort of like people will ask me, oh, do you watch the show,
and I'll be like, I'm awareof its work. I'm competent enough

(24:41):
to you can have a conversation withme about it and I will be Okay.
That's sort of where I am withDownton Abbey. Like, so I
do understand sort of the concept ofthe upstairs downstairs, and I think they
actually lift the door the bell framefrom the opening of Downton Abbey. I
can wait with that. Wh Idon't know if they paid for it or
whatever, but it is a PBSBBC show, so I'm sure it wasn't

(25:04):
super expensive if they bought Oh,I guess there's that I like, But
yeah, it's not. There's nocorporate overlap there, so I wonder,
yeah, but that but that's cool. Um, it makes total sense for
what this is though, and it'sjust again, this is the first level
of like, now we have FlannelZrI, who is not a part of

(25:26):
this, dressed like you know,a lady. I love her outfit,
and now the the Joey Eysed Bradand na it's just like, holy shit,
right, so her outfit looks great, though, ye looks great as
well. They all look great,honestly. Um but throughout the this whole
thing, like you're saying, they'rejust moving through the shows as the characters

(25:48):
that they are, that they originallycame from in the wrong context. So
yeah, so barad and and Nateare both always their ultimate buzz versions just
move been through either the Downton Abbey, Highcastle Abbey and Star Trip or whatever
good it's it's and yet it's stillmatters. And this again, this is

(26:11):
like the narrative whiplash that I getaddicted to with this show, where I'm
like, all of this should bestupid, all of this should be too
cute by way more than half right, and yet it's not. Still I'm
a little teary eyed at the end, you know, like goddamn you.
Um so one of them. Thisis also interesting because like this is also

(26:32):
Matt Ryan doing a different, differentaccent hm, because like he's well doing
great, so eventually he gets tobe Welsh on the show, but he's
playing Constantine who's kind of Cockney,and now he's playing this other character who's
got more of a posh British accent, right, yes, so now he's
doing a totally different accent. Who'swho's offended when the footman sits in front
of the Lord and ladies, youknow, and also the carriage will be

(26:56):
seen to by our second footman,yes um. And also like appropriately for
the time racist where it's just likewhat do you think of I think it
was like what do you think ofLord Brad? What do you'd expect from
a foreigner? Okay, we're doingthat sure appropriately ashamed of his magic as
well, which which felt right tome. It felt like, oh but

(27:18):
a dirty peasant thing for me tobe good at. But I do have
a skin oh right yeah, likeI'm I'm a trained butler, but like
I've dabbled in the mysticals, yes, yes I have. It's almost like
you know, in real life.It's like it almost like his drinking problem.
We're like, yes, I'm ashamedof it, of course, but
yeah, do you want to goon a starship? I guess I can

(27:41):
do that if I burn a card, right, yeah, I think maybe
remember this my shamed lady Lady Natalieand Lady astra Um. I don't understand
why they didn't. So I believe, but I haven't seen enough videos to
one hundred percent confirm this that OliviaSwan is British and has a British accent.

(28:03):
I always thought that too, butmaybe I'm wrong. No, No,
I'm nearly okay. I'm like,I'm according to the Internet, she
is English, and I have seenvideos where she has an accent. I'm
pretty sure, but it's also oneof those things where, like the audio
is not great, so like,is she is she a Jillian Anderson too,
where she just code switches and you'relike, what are you? I

(28:26):
don't think so, um, buther American accent is very good, so
um, that's one of those things. So like, I think she's using
her real accent in the high CastleAbbey stuff, but I'm not one hundred
percent positive because it could be thatshe's English but she's using a different accent.
Like I was gonna say, I'msure a little performed just from the
time. And but what I've neverunderstood is why they didn't just let Astra

(28:48):
be British all the time. Noidea, like, because the whole idea
is that like her mom was alsoBritish, no idea. Yeah, nope,
no clue. Is it because shewas raised in Hell? Is Hell
America? Well, frankly, Hell'sfull of villains, So you'd think we
know that one of the Lucifers isBritish, you know, like I,

(29:10):
I don't know. This is thisis where my brain goes. I'm always
like moderately obsessed with people's accents becauseI am not good at accents. I
think so like im, I'm likefascinated by people who are good at them.
If you saw my high school productionof Jacqueline Hyde, you would know,
damn well, well he was castfor his singing this is the musical?

(29:32):
Huh are you a J I was, yeah, I don't. I
don't recommend it. Jacqueline Hyde,Well that either accents as child. Yeah,
I had to do one in highschool for a show as well.
I only had seventeen lines, thankgod, but she remembered she counted them.

(29:52):
I had two weeks to be liketill till curtain when I got the
part, Oh girl, yeah thatwas your that was your star turn.
Okay, anyway, so this isalso so like the whole plot of Highcastle
Abbey is like trying to marry Astrayes to, which is like, had

(30:18):
they been flirting before this? Idon't. This is this is my question.
Is this as overt as we getwith them going forward? Because like
I forgot how long they get teasedthis out? For me, this is
like a season sixth thing where theyremember this happening um, But it's just
it's so long to deal with itand not actually get them to get Is

(30:40):
there ever even a kiss? No? I don't believe. So that's a
lot because they do stuff with itnext season and in season seven. Yeah,
but like it never gets further thanthis kind of stuff where it's almost
like they were afraid to do it, and I like I wonder, I
wonder why that is where they keepteasing it as an option where there's like
clearly there's an attraction there or atleast he's into her. She's into him

(31:04):
too, because like she not atthis point because she breast she'll move to
London with him, right, butlike like later in the series, like
they flirt and stuff and she likesays something about liking him or whatever,
Like there's yeah, there's the episodewith like the film crew from hell um

(31:26):
and like where like he shows upto rescue her or whatever, like there's
there's all this stuff for like theytease it, but they never go further
than that. And I don't knowif they were just sort of like testing
the waters to see if there wasenough chemistry and just deciding no, I
don't think so. These are boththe cutest, prettiest people in the world,
Like, I'm sure they could havechemistry. It's just yeah, I've
always I've always kind of wondered aboutthat, where it was just like,

(31:49):
if you're not going to pull thetrigger on it. Ultimately, after what
I thought was two years but turnsout was three, Like well, why
why why keep going to this?Well? But I don't know. I
guess part of me is like werethey afraid to have more straight people in
the show? Um? Because likeI always thought she had more chemistry with
Spooner. I know you did listento this podcast right here were here when

(32:14):
I made that mention, But yeah, I always thought she had more chemistry
with Spooner. So like, eventhough I knew they were probably not going
to get them together, I waslike, I would be fine if she
didn't get with anybody, but like, why why do we keep going back
to this barred well when I'm like, I don't feel like they have anything.
I don't know, but yeah,this is I think the first real
like push toward that that we seewhere it's like, oh, that seems

(32:36):
like that's going to be a plotpoint next season where it's literally written in
yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, um and I yeah, I And
it's it's cute. It's nice tome the kind of journey that both of
them, both of them being mAstra and John in this case, go

(32:59):
on in this episode, Like she'sshe's open to it, she wants to
move to London, and like that'sthe worst thing that even mister Constantine could
hear. Right. It's also likewe'll get to the later stuff, but
it's just like this is where I'mlike, how dare you make me give
a shit? Like this is awesome? You know. It's also like she's
open to moving to London, butlike part of her whole thing is that

(33:19):
she she wants to have like anadventure, Like she wants to have a
bigger life or a more interesting lifeand and do something you know, more
than you know, be a girllacked away, and right when she's wrapped
up in this world and the character, you know, the brainwashed version for
lack of a better word, sheshe knows that she wants something more when

(33:39):
she's when she's more aware, she'slike, if that's my mom, I
can't leave here. Yeah, Imean all she wants is her mom.
But like even even her outside ofthis world wants something more than the life
she's been living. Right, Like, she went with them because John said
he could bring her mom back withthe loom Um, but also because like

(34:00):
she recognizes that her life in hellisn't actually great. Like yeah, she's
like, well, right, she'sdoing really well, but like it's not
it's not like what she wants orlike what she couldn't have outside of it.
She's sold her soul and she feelsit exactly, not literally, I

(34:22):
know this is a world where'd bereal anyway, John burns a card and
we all wind up Clingons. UhNo, they wind up Romulans. You're
right, you're I know that Iwas wrong technically, gram I'd like that.
I'm like the one that like Ithink I know and I immediately fuck
up. Yes they are Romulans,but they are they do have Clingoni faces,

(34:46):
Although the Romulans also had weird faces. Um original series Clingons, or
at least early days Clingons didn't havethe same makeup as they do. Know,
they just had fa Yeah they didn't. They didn't all look like warf
Um. Yeah it was much better. It is a break. But yeah.
So we end up on on aStar Trek parody called Star Trip where

(35:07):
it is the adventures of the USSFate Rider the Fate Writer, where they
are going to seek out different culturesand blow them up with lasers. We
have to get to Katie's performance here. Can I take a wave Rider minute?
Yes, let's take Matt has programmedhimself a wave Rider minute, so
we will give him one great thankyou. This is I remember I was

(35:29):
in the job I was with atthe time. We used to do instead
of like a Christmas party or whatever, we'd do Christmas Disney Day, where
where we would go down to Anaheimfor the day and they'd buy the ticket
and blah blah blah. And likeI was at Disney Day when the trailer
for Season five of Legends dropped andlike I'm in line to get back on
the tram to leave when I seethis on my Facebook, and I'm like,

(35:51):
I kind of watched this and it'sseeing in the trailer this shot of
the wave Rider fate writer excuse me, model go by that first planted in
my head. I'm like, yep, I love that ship. I need
to make a model at some point, And seeing this error during COVID,
I was like, yep, Ilove the ship. I'm gonna start making
a model. And I failed miserablyabout doing doing it by hand, Like

(36:13):
I tried to do it just likejust make it out of nothing, and
I just failed miserably. And it'sjust always been in my head and nagging
at me, which is how thesecrafty things happened to me to the point
where now like having an almost finishedone on my shelf, it will be
finished by the time this episode starts. There will be a long article of

(36:34):
a how to, and the threeD model that I printed all the pieces
of it will be available for everyone'sdownload for free on my site Daily Knockoff
dot com. But it was justlike, this is the type of thing
that gets me so jazzed where I'mlike, sometimes there's just something in this
narrative or this show that I lovethat I just I need to make a

(36:55):
kind of experience and have, andit's it's just it's so exciting. And
this is truly the spark that thatthat lit that fuse that I was like,
at some point I want to wavea wavewrider sitting on my shelf.
This is it just seeing it.I'd seen the show you know whatever five
years now, and seeing the wavewriterer come in and out, but seeing

(37:15):
it finally physicalized as what I knewwas this, you know prop somewhere just
like really kind of solidified the importanceand the love I had for this actual
ship in the design of it forme is that weird. I don't know,
No, not at all. Itotally get that, like, especially
with the way like three D printingworks and stuff, like the fact that
you can do that is actually likereally attainable. But I also like,

(37:38):
I totally get the idea of likeseeing this, especially seeing it as a
model. It's like, oh,that one guests in your brain, like
I could have a model, rightship like sitting on my shelf. I
also love. One of the thingsI love about old science fiction, and
not even like that old like evenlike nineties science fiction is like we were

(38:00):
not throwing money at science fiction evenin the way that we are now and
like CGI wasn't as good as itas it is now. Um, and
like you could always tell like thatthese were models, like you do that
right, these were things, butthere were things yeah, um, but
you you didn't care because it wasso cool, and like there's such nostalgia

(38:22):
to seeing something like that, andI that's one of the things I love
because it still looks really good.It's like it's just a little fake.
That's the thing about like watching um, like watching next Gen, especially now,
when it looks fucking gorgeous and yousee those models and what they're doing

(38:43):
with it, and like you justsee the sausage detached so that they can
you know, really go up againstthe board or whatever, and it's just
like, holy shit, the ingenuity. I know that that's fake. It
doesn't look completely convincing, but goddamn it, it looks really fucking good,
you know, Like and I Idon't necessarily see I can't articulate where
the seams of it are. Ilove stuff like that. I wish I

(39:04):
was more of a crafty person becausethere are things that like I'll see in
a show and be like I wantthat, And I know I could make
it, but no, I don'thave the skills. I'm right here and
no, no, now, nowthe materials and I'll do it, like
you know, I'm happy to theother thing is like one of the things
that I've been thinking about. Sothis is why, like I totally know
what you're talking about. Is likeI would love to get a three D
printer because they're really not that expensiveto get, like this one, as

(39:27):
long as you don't want to dolarge scale, right, that's the thing.
It's manageable right now. But youcan only like a manageable price wise
one is like six by six orsomething, right, like you're gonna you're
gonna make a small one. Butyou can make D and D minis on
the small ones very easily, veryeasily. And there's a part of me
so like when I was watching Willowon Disney Plus, I got obsessed with
the show and I was like,what I would love to do is make

(39:49):
minis of these characters. That's agreat way to hold that fantasy show too,
Like that's really cool. Yeah,and like paint them and like do
fun stuff with them, Like that'ssomething that I would find really fun.
And I've always wanted to paint myown minis, and I just have never
gotten around to doing it. NowI have kind of more space in the
place that I'm living now, soI might actually start like painting minis and
doing cool stuff with those, andum so that's that's something that Like when

(40:12):
you said you were making a modelof the wave Rider, I was like,
that's cool. That's totally something thatI would want to do because I
understand three D modeling and three Dprinting and stuff. Um So yeah,
like it's it's cool. I can'twait to see what it looks like when
it's done. As adult nerds,it is so satisfying to be able to
like finally make our own toy,like make the toy that we always wanted
to exactly. Like I as agiant Farescape fan, like all I ever

(40:37):
wanted was a pulse pistol from FarEscape. Oh sure, and like I
could never get one because the onlyones you could get were like resin made,
and like it was like you hadto order them and they were really
expensive. And I'm like I couldprobably three D print one right now.
I'm just gonna say that, Ibet you can buy that model on Etsy
for like twenty five dollars or whateverand get it printed for forty and you're
done, Yeah, exactly, andsend it to me to paint and then

(40:58):
I'll know it's just black. Icould probably do oh never mind, but
you're fine. Anyway. I justhad to take that moment because it was
truly it was what like seeing itfinally physicalize this spaceship that has been home
to one of my favorite shows foreverfinally physicalized that. I'm like, oh,
fuck, I do want one.Yeah, let's do this eventually.

(41:19):
And now it's three years later orwhatever, but still it's it's cool.
Still you're realizing it, and that'sreally neat. Yeah, and this is
a very generous fan community. SoI wanted to kind of pay it forward
of like I paid money to getthis thing, the actual three D model
of it made. But I'm like, there's no reason I should hold onto
this, like let it, letit be for people. So please daily
knockoff dot com. By the timethis episode's up, that will be available

(41:42):
and you can jump in and makeyour own. And as of this reporter,
we've already gotten a few messages toour Instagram like asking how you're making
it and it's really it's been reallyfun because like you're responding to the messages,
but I'm seeing them on my phone. I know. I'm sorry.
That's fine. It's funny to likewatch a conversation and not have to participate
us. It's really well to seehow people are responding and really being excited
about it. Um. So that'sthat'll be great. I thank you.

(42:05):
That was very longer than a minute. But that's okay, um, because
I jumped into But so you wantto talk about Katie's Shatner performance. So
what do you want to say?I don't think it's very good. It's
not I don't feel that they're tryingto do it well. I think she's
a wonderful actress. I love SarahLance very much. I I know they're

(42:28):
doing the sitcom version of Shatner.They'll be oh, do the drop of
that? Um, but it's it'sit's I want to believe that this is
a show that she's actually on,Like I want it to be a little
more nuanced, do you know,like not quite as big. Yeah,
it's definitely very big. What doyou how do you feel about Avis Spak?

(42:49):
Perfect? Okay, so you're down, but also spok is pretty one
note, you know he is.If you master that note, you can
do it. You got the notein the eyebrows. Yeah, Um,
I think it's cute. I thinkI love that they do. I wish
they had the men in skirts,but I love that, like Officer Mala

(43:09):
shout out to an actual producer,like I like that reference. Um,
but I love that Officer Mals inthe little short shorts and stuff. It
feels hot pants and then yeah,exactly, and the girls are in short
skirts and it's like, but likethe officers don't have to wear that.
I guess because aren't wearing shorts.But it's truly like if anyone doesn't know

(43:32):
what we're talking about, like lookit up. But like in Next Gen
they kind of wore they made likealmost mini dresses for the men to wear
because they're like fashion is going tobe unisex by them looked too weird and
they went away from it. Butit was just the costume design, like
there's something legitimate in the idea ofit. Um, but it's just like,

(43:55):
yeah, it's they got a littleshy with it. Basically. Ultimately,
one thing is like I don't I'vealways wanted to watch Next Gen if
only for the world that they imagine, right, like a world away from
money and like super peaceful and nowar and like we're just traveling around for
knowledge and diplomacy. Yeah, butlike I've never I never got to do

(44:16):
it, but like, yeah,like I like the the utopic world that
they they imagine for us, whereif you want to, everyone can be
rich and on a chateau. It'sfine exactly because money doesn't matter anymore.
I will say that Podfather Zach Igot into Next Gen. It felt insurmountable
to me, but I knew I'dlike it. He has a curated list

(44:37):
of like here the episodes to watch, and I've been slowly making my way
through that for the past like twoyears, and it's it's really it's very
good and very enjoyable to watch itthat way, So I will show that
to you. That's that's cool.I'm very much a complete completionist, Like
I need to watch that. Yeah, I forgot how I'm talking due never
mind, so I can try.I used to when I was writing for

(44:58):
Fangirls. We used to create binguides. Um oh that's cool. Yeah,
so we would like, like ifyou don't if you don't want to
sit down and watch all like Idid one for Smallville that was just the
lowest episodes. Sure, like ifyou just want to binge Smallville, but
only the episodes that are important tolowest lane, Like here are the episodes
to do. And I did umlike ship guides, like we would do
them as like if you just wantto watch all the highlights for this relationship

(45:20):
on the show, like we gotyou covered. Um, so like we
did a few of those, uh, which were very a couple of rooms
away that would be very interested inthis type of thing. So like,
yeah, like I totally get theidea that people only want to watch like
like just get me into the show. And I've done it to people in
the past. I've been like,if you want to get into like Buffy,
skip the first season. Come backto it when you already like the

(45:43):
Prophecy Girls pretty fucking great, butall right, yeah yeah, but like
the first season is really hard toget into. So like you know,
I've said skip the first season,watch season two, get into it.
I've said that with about Legends too. I was like, if you start
it and you find that you're reallyhaving a hard time getting through the first
season. Skip it, just skipseason two, season two oh one is
a perfect way to jump into theshow exactly. So like just skip it,

(46:06):
get to the next season, youknow, and go back to season
one when you already liked the show, like when you're just trying to fill
in the blanks, right, Um, So I get that people will do
that. I have never been someonewho does that, but I could try.
It's how I used to find TVshows me too. That's appealing to
me, That's funny. I wasalways driven mad by that. Um,

(46:27):
Like the the idea that I couldlike go to the library and like rent
a whole season of a show waslike awesome because I could just watch the
whole thing. Like there was abig stretch of time and I was watching
er on T and T like inthe mornings, and I would I would
watch them and you know, gothrough them, and every single summer I
would watch them every single day,and then I had to go back to
school, and without fail, Iwould miss the Carter and Lucy get Stabbed

(46:50):
episode every single year. And ittook me like a decade to finally see
that episode. You know. Ilove that you were watching R when I
was up just an hour earlier watchingLoves and Clark. I mean I was
also I don't know that I waswatching Lowis and Clark, but I was.
That's how I gotten we've had thisconversation. That's how I got into
charl I got into angelmed. Yes, I thought you were gonna say,
like it was seven years into watchingyour where I was like, George Clooney

(47:14):
was on this. No, Ialways knew that George Clooney was doing here,
you know, like, um,though, this is years before.
I watched The Good Wife because ofJulianna Marglies. I watched ghost Ship because
of Julianna Margali's Oh god, dowe have do we have Good Wife in
common? I've watched a Good Wife, one of the greatest modern TV shows

(47:34):
of all time. I love TheGood Wife so much. I love the
first few seasons of the Good Wife, but I have been trying to rewatch
it, so I might. Idon't suggest the Good Fight then, but
I have watched a bit of theGood Fight. That's a weird conversation,
we canna But anyway, let's getaway from that to Star Trip. Star

(47:54):
Trip. Uh, there's a questionableShatner in a perfectly possible spot going on.
Yep, we have our Gromulans,and then we have our Gromulins who
are not Apparently we just don't turnthe translator on right away. But it's
fine because we're just gonna shoot them. That's just what's gonna happen. There's
this there's this whole ultimate buds thingwhere it's just like, yeah, we

(48:17):
shouldn't. But on the other hand, press a button so they TV show.
It's fine, we're gonna press atnothing will happen, But it's you're
in a TV show. You're noton a set for a TV show,
right. That button really does work, and it hits the ship and it
kills all officer Malad dies anyway,so who cares, here's a robot.

(48:43):
It's fine, don't worry about it. Um Yeah. And then they get
you know, they get beamed aboardthe Gromulan ship with all their friends that
they don't know about, and uhAva immediately figures out what's going on.
Yes, Ava thinks they're in likewhat dimensions dimension prison dimension which is which
is? Um sorry keeps having tolike correct yourself, like, well,

(49:06):
when we get to a different TVprison dimension yeah, we'll be fine.
Well, we did get a transmissionrecently from the planet called a ZAC,
but I don't know what it means. Excellent, excellent, excellent, excellent.
Like, it's also one of thosethings where again watching it with Kat,
I was just like, if you'reholding on to half of this,
that's impressive, Like, holy shit, what is weird? This is not?

(49:30):
It's not only referencing like the factthat they're all in different TV shows
that are all adjacent to each other. Now we're chasing our own tale,
right, It's not only referencing um, mister Rogers. It's also referencing an
earlier episode where they were also onmister Parker's called The Sack. It's just
references on references on references to thepoint where Kat was like, who is

(49:54):
this? I'm like, well,it's mister Parker's. Like is he a
legend that he might as well beat this point? No, he's a
mister Rogers who likes to kick backwith a cold beer every once in a
while, you know, yes,Uh so that's another one of the buttons,
Like we could just beat ourselves overthere, No better not. The

(50:15):
hand comes up and grabs the thingand through the cold sex. It's just
it's all great. I love themdressed up like the village people with their
little like name tags when they comein construction worker job, the community helpers.
Yes, so so damn cute.But this is truly where it's like

(50:37):
we've got our actors not playing themselves, playing versions of them from at this
point, like three different shows allin a mister Rogers spoof. How is
this episode making any sense? Andit is, and it's wonderful. And
this is somehow where they kind ofcut through the bullshit and we get the

(50:58):
do a sex mona where she getsto like write in the the emotional reveal
for everybody, and and it's andit's got me and I just love this
damn show so much right here.Yeah, it's it's great. So like
I think I think of it notjust as an audience, but like from
a directing standpoint too, of likehaving to hold the different versions of the

(51:19):
characters in the head, uh andlike make sure that you're and Matt remember
Um Dalton n Abbey, you guysfriends, star Trek Good, Let's go
right exactly, like to remember whattheir performances are supposed to be rather than
what you're used to them being umand like direct to that. But then
also, yeah, there's this greatmoment with Mona, so like this is
after she and Gary like bust intoClotho Productions. So that's like the first

(51:44):
indication that we get if you rememberthat Charlie is Clotho Um, like that
was her fate name, that she'sthe one pulling the strings here um or
the threads or the threads. Yeah, so there are their life threads are
woven into this scriptwriting algorithm, whichI think was funny from a writing perspective

(52:04):
that the writers wrote in a scriptwritingalgorithm to write these TV shows. And
yeah, so she flips it offand writes her own thing, and she's
like, we don't know anything aboutwhat's going on in the show, but
this is okay. Cool. Theyneed to remember who they are, so
the legends remember who they are,who they really are. She's also spurred
on by Zari going like, youguys, your legends were misfits, but

(52:29):
we're awesome, and they're all likelots of they're talking about us. We
could be those misfits. Yeah,we could be misfits. Yeah. Yeah.
So the thing that is also reallycool is that what Mona does here
isn't just giving them back the memoriesof who they were before they were in
the shows. It also literally givesthem back the memory of the original Zari.

(52:50):
They get all of their memories backand are from this point forward able
to hold in their mind the factthat Barhad and Zari were both in these
situations as the same person like inthe past, which I imagine would give
you a migraine if nothing else.Which is the big cheat that they don't
undo from this episode. Yeah,the thing that they do undo again is

(53:15):
the is the Zaria thing. ButI'm glad that emotionally, at least they
let they let the characters know whatshow they've been on, you know.
Yeah, they they do tell themlike like they let them remember Zari,
like they they fix the thing thatthey broke at the end of last year,
because the thing that they broke,or that Zari allowed them to break,
is that she doesn't exist anymore,at least the way that they remember

(53:37):
her. So it allowed them toget back their actual memories of what really
happened friend that helped them for twoyears before she disappeared. Yeah, right
exactly. And you wonder, likehow those stories that we had seen with
Zari would have been different with Behrad, like because he has different baggage,
right, Like he's not trying tosave his brother, Like he's not coming

(54:00):
from an apocalyp post apocalyptic kind ofsituation, you know, a dystopian future.
Uh, why he is what heis where he's the relaxed stoner who
you know, just kind of goeswith the flow on the time ship.
You know, but you imagine thatlike their adventures would have been different because
yeah, those things we ever findout how he you know, quote unquote
bay Rod joined the team in seasonthree. Presume No, I don't think

(54:22):
they ever like specifically tell us,Yeah, he just does. He steals
the family or a loom and runsoff and pretends he's still a business school
anyway. Again, they somehow inthis in a Mister Rogers spoof set,
pull off these actors wearing these crazycostumes, reverting to themselves, having emotional,

(54:46):
lovely reunions of different kinds throughout,and then having a musical number like
it's yeah, I love this showso damn much. I I don't I
the the the bravery of this ascreators and the true like I'm not blowing

(55:09):
smoke up anyone's asked. Truly,the mechanics of figuring out how to do
this and not cross any line isunbelievable to me. And it's it's it's
it is what. It's a CWshow. Like I'm not trying to say
it's whatever, but it is soimpressive and it's the reason that it.

(55:30):
It's episodes like this where it's like, this is why this is my favorite
arrow Verse show, because somehow theywere able to make all these turns and
still pull it off. I mean, I'm sorry, I feel like I'm
just gushing through this whole episode.This is this this episode, like you
said, it is very much likeemblematic of the reason why we like we
love the show is because it itdoes all this crazy stuff and and like

(55:52):
you're right in that it is brave, right because and I there's one of
the things is, like you mentionedat the top of this episode that the
ratings are kind of in the toilets. There was never going to get really
high rating because it is the CWand you know, ratings are not awesome.
It is kind of a niche show. And so that's the thing is

(56:14):
like it's not trying to be foreverybody. It's trying to be the show
that it is. It's trying tobe the best version of the show that
it is. It is trusting thecreative forces behind the show to make something
fun and hilarious and heartfelt and goodwithout it being exactly what you expect.

(56:38):
Right, nine people's favorite thing.Yeah, and surprise those nine people and
make them love you even more.Right, Like, they're just trying to
make a really good show for thepeople that like the show. They're trying
to honestly, they're probably trying towrite the show that they want. And
like I would love to see morecreative chances taken on television shows. I

(56:58):
don't feel like we'd take enough chanceswith humor or referential stuff like this,
or you know, really anything tolike trust that the audience is going to
be able to follow it and isgoing to like it, and is going
to like feel something from from whatyou're you're doing and saying. And there's
a very real way that this isfatiguing that. Like I this is kind

(57:22):
of the big punching bag at thiscultural moment. But like Marvel, right
now, I think a lot ofpeople are having Marvel fatigue, but that
almost is out of sameness and youhave to follow all these things where it's
just like, yeah, you haveto follow this show to know what the
fuck is going on in this episode, but if you do, there is

(57:43):
no sense of safeness, like youyou were in a completely different place and
still having this really fun time withthis emotional pair off. The thing that
it almost makes me think of moreMarvel. You're right about Marvel, Like,
there's definitely a fatigue, and alot of that has to do with
the fact that like they're not beingdifferent or strange or interesting enough. There's

(58:05):
some Marvel stuff I love, butyeah, absolutely, but like the stuff
that I love is the stuff thatbreaks the mold of what they were previously
doing. Like the reason I loveMiss Marvel that the show is that it
was different than everything else and itwas fun and colorful and also very poignant
and about something that I didn't knowthat much about and you know, that
kind of thing. But what actuallyit makes me think of a little more

(58:28):
right now is the sort of likefan response, or not fan response,
but like audience response to something likeeverything everywhere all at once, where like
it's not for everyone, but thepeople that it is for love it.
The people that got it totally fuckingjabbed with it. And even though everyone
didn't get it, everyone was like, that's incredible, here's all your Oscars.

(58:50):
Not everyone, though, because thereare a lot of people that I've
talked to who they don't go forabsurdist humor and they don't like it because
I guess, I mean everyone justlike. It obviously did very well this
year, right, very well atthe Oscars. They the you know,
from a professional standpoint, they recognizethe work that went into making it.
Right. It's the same thing thatlike Fury Road did a couple of years

(59:14):
ago, where it's like it's notfor everybody, but fuck, it's a
kind of undeniable, right. Butthere are a lot of people, like
just regular audience members who are watchingthis movie who did not like it.
And a lot of them, youknow, are like my parents, you
know, my mom not into it, you know my you know, people
I know their parents are into it. Other people I've seen like writing about
it, not liking it, notgetting at people like it. And I'm

(59:35):
like, because sometimes you just wantsomething that's weird. Yeah, that's just
that just turns at every scene notjust weird, but like loves that it
is weird, and I think that'svery like it's not the same kind of
weird, but Legends is that kindof thing where it's like it's like,
yeah, this is weird, andwe're gonna lean all the way into it
and it's gonna work. A greatexample for this episode where it's we're in

(01:00:00):
kind of multiverse territory narratively at least, you know, like it's just it's
like I said, everyone's coming fromdifferent places, but we also don't know
what they're supposed to be. Andstill when Nate Hugzari again, I'm like,
oh my god, you haven't seeneach other in a year, despite
the fact that Tala has never leftthe show. Yeah. Yeah, and
they finally have their reunion and youknow, it's it's awesome this. I

(01:00:24):
think this is a really cool momenttoo, where Charlie Clotho whatever uses mister
Parker is basically or conduit, givesthem the musical song to send them back
to their times, and it's justlike, this is how this is gonna
have to go, and it's youknow, the ultimate buds get kind of
pushed back into it. Star Tripdoes too, Like they get zapped immediately,

(01:00:46):
right, and it's Astra who likechooses if that was my mom,
we have to go back, andthat's all John wants is to help Astra.
This is really the episode two fromwhere I'm like John is a good
man. At this point he willfalter and it will ultimately lead to his
demise, but he at his corehe is trying to be a good man.

(01:01:09):
And when they get back to theshow and he's just like he takes
her side and says we can stayand plays the part. And it's like
that moment for me where Matt Ryangoes from Constantine to mister Constantine again is
fantastic to like it gets a lumpin my throat watching like, I will

(01:01:31):
do this for you if this iswhat you need. Yeah, I mean
I don't think at any point Ithought that well. I mean, yeah,
I thought John was a nasty pieceof work. But but like he's
all he always wants to be agood guy. I just don't know that
he is the type of person whocan do it long term, right.
That's sort of like where we endup with him later. Not a question

(01:01:53):
we have to ask in this episode. You're absolutely right, Yes, So
like you know, there's a questionof like if this had gone on for
longer than the time that they dodo it for like what would how would
he really have reacted? But butyeah, I mean it's definitely a very
selfless thing for him to do,to like choose to not like not actually
get what he asked for, right, Like what he wanted was was for

(01:02:13):
Astra to have grown up in thisbig house with her mom and he would
be there and like protect them andwhatever, but he would still be himself,
presumably he would be John Constantine,right, and in this case,
like he does have to give thatup in order for her to have what
she wants with her mom. Um. But of course her mom gives her
the ticket to London because he heardthat she wanted to go. Yes,

(01:02:34):
And we also established that like she'sshe's not real, she doesn't really remember
any of that. She is aTV character at this point, you know,
she's artifice, she's an yeah,and that's that's what lets her let
go. Meanwhile, Sarah, inher terrible Shatner pulls a total Kobe Ashi
Maru and let's you know, likelet's then lose the unwinnable situation and and

(01:02:59):
gets out of there not before weget done. I was gonna say the
unwinnable situation brought about by done.Holy shit again like shows up just when
you've forgotten that Mick isn't in thisepisode because they've kept you busy the entire
time. Yea, and is maybethe most out there, craziest note that

(01:03:22):
Dominic Purcell ever gets to play inthis show. Is great? Is him
like with a wig on doing this, doing the hair fling the like.
So the bats tidbit that I have, the behind the scenes tant bit that
I have, please from the IMDbtrivia is and so I don't know one
percent how accurate is but is thathe hadn't seen Wrath of Khan. So

(01:03:46):
what he's doing is like his impressionof Mark Uggenheim doing an impression of Ricardo
Muscles. So it's like a copyof a copy of a copy. But
that's fine for the Yeah, absolutelytotally works. It's just so funny to
see him on this show a looklike that. Yeah, be like not

(01:04:09):
have the groff, you know,the Mick voice, dunnier and whatever.
Like he's a little more um theatricaland and fun and it's just I don't
know why I love Mick Rory still, but god damn it, it's great
to see him as he puts hishair and fires photon torpedoes. I feel
like you kind of expect a guywho, I mean, who acts like

(01:04:30):
Mick does, because like Donald Priscelldoesn't doesn't act like Mick does. Like
he's but he presumably I know nothingabout him. I saw him kind of.
I mean, he's very British butthe Fire Movie or whatever, but
he's still kind of um like reserved. But he's not like gruff and yeah,
um, he's just surprisingly English whenyou hear and talk, um and

(01:04:51):
he English. He's English. Yeah, fuck me, I didn't know that
he's a he's a very English accent. Every time i' we ever seen him
do American accents. Every time I'veseen him talk, I'm just like,
oh, right, that's what youreally sound. Look, no, that's
why they make through interviews at ComicCon, but I never noticed that.
That's why they make him make allthe British jokes. Incredible, But how

(01:05:13):
much he hates Brits because he isa brit mind blown for a second.
Sorry, I'm coming back. Okay, continue, He's not the kind of
guy that you expect to like dowacky weird. Yeah, but yet he
does it full throated, like hejust does it, go into it.
The other thing that I noted fromthis is that so it's not something that
he mentioned. I don't think thathe mentions in his in the thing in

(01:05:34):
the previous episode, but it froman episode that we've done previously, the
Richard Nixon episode, where when thetruth bug is inside him, he says
he wants to grow his hair outlike Fabio. He gets to have the
Fabio hair for all of five secondshere, but yes, it's so fun.
And then when he gets reverted back, he was like, I liked

(01:05:54):
my hair. I missed everything.I liked my hair. He references like,
how could you leave me and herthere? Or something on this planet?
Which was that a wrath of conthing? Or is he talking about
Leda or I don't know if he'stalking about Leader or not. Um she's
named after Leda FOURD of the Runaways. Um Oh, I don't know.

(01:06:15):
I'm not sure what he's referencing.It might be that, I mean,
after this, he does he andLeda do get left in the next episode
for four months, but he solike that what they end up doing is
so yeah, they she does thelike as you as you said, the
Kobe Ashimara thing, and let's theship blow up while they make out on
the bridge and everybody gets like thrownreally far and an amazing makeout shot for

(01:06:38):
them, and I'm like, ironicallymaybe one of their best make up shot,
like the most iconic makeup shot inthe whole show, when all this
shit's exploding behind them. Um,so they they get pulled out first,
and then it's uh, Astra andJohn get pulled out right, and then

(01:07:00):
we get go back to the ultimateboats and yeah, and Zari leads her
her Mush Revel, her Mush Revolt. I love that it's the audience reaction
to like Mush's girls what and that'slike what triggers it for her, right,
But yeah, and seemingly you knowthe revolution will be televised is she

(01:07:23):
gets everybody in Loom world to belike, yeah, fuck all this and
to whatever good that does them ultimatelynot really, but they get set free
as well, and everybody remind windsup like backstage basically, Yeah, and
I probably in the literally in thebackstage of their sound studio and Zari is
Flannelsari inside Fancy Zari. Yes,so she's out of the show, still

(01:07:46):
in heels. I somehow I'm stillin heels. And that's they separate,
well, Charley separates them. Yes, sorry, that's the whole Thing's trying
to trying to placate them too,like she cancels the show. Is basically
how she gets them all. Yeah, here, but she's like, I'll
do rewrites whatever, We'll bring itback. It's right, We'll give you

(01:08:06):
everything you wanted. This is whatthis is. This is exactly what you
asked for. This is everything youwanted. I'm also I'm trying to keep
you alive. Yeah, And thisis sort of her compromise and it doesn't
work one of the other. Anotherbehind the scenes thing um is, according
to a quote from Marko Beheid thatI saw this scene with the two Zari.
So once she splits them and nowwe get both fancies Ari and Flannel

(01:08:28):
Zarium. This was his first day. This is day one of the episode.
Oh god, he's gonna do so. It's his first day shooting his
first episode of television and he hasto use a techno Dolly which is a
very technical piece of equipment. Hehas no idea how it works. He's
like, are you trying to killme? This whole thing? Yeah,

(01:08:48):
it's nuts, and like you know, I know, there's there's obviously the
crew is in place and they knowthis and they guide the directors and blah
blah blah. But he still hasto come in with a lot of opinions
and and like a lot of visionin order to pull this off. That's
that's very impressive to me. Yeah, it's a long day, it's yeah,
and deal with all the technical bullshitlike that, and shoot the end

(01:09:11):
of the episode for us, whichalways kind of blows my mind. To
end of the episode first, Sonow we have both Zaris are out,
loom World is still very much ineffect, Charlie's whole thing has been blown
up, and now we're all goingto go overthrow the face, walk out
of Cloth Productions or studios or whereverwe are, and and yeah, go
take the world back kind of alike Cliffhanger, I guess of an ending,

(01:09:32):
but also like this episode gives youso much that doesn't really matter,
and and it's it's just so funnytoo that like they seemingly fix the Zaria
situation, only to unfix it againsoon Yeah yeah, exactly to find out
that they can't fix it, right, that this is this is what we're
trapped in. Anyway, I'm sorrythat you lost. I look forward to
you winning Bingo and getting to dothat episode if we haven't covered it yet.

(01:09:55):
But okay, I do love thisepisode. I also love this episode.
It's totally fine. Um that Ilost Bingo this time. Next time,
perhaps I will win and I willget to do one of my favorite
episodes, Gloves are off with thisround understood, Gloves We're already off,
but we're all we're at the mercyof the Dice fell, So I can't

(01:10:16):
whatever Cloth decides to write us solegendary moment. Yeah, what are you
thinking? I know what I'm thinking. Mine's like it's all great, right,
Like it's really so. I wentjust dumb with it, and just
the minute Dominic purcell As don tossedhis hair, I was like, perfect,
Emmy, Like this whole episode isjust any for best hair toss goes

(01:10:40):
to best hair toss, best terriblewig done. Um, so like,
ironically, I guess with a littlebit of a joke. In my heart,
I think I think that I didnot go the obvious route and pick
the makeout on the bridge. Iinstead amazed by your reservation. Yeah right,
I instead went with my Twosaris.Like I just I loved, like

(01:11:02):
specifically the splitting them at the end, because initially it was like, oh,
that's a nice way to bring backflannels are for a little while.
But now we literally have both ofthem, and I was like, oh
my god, are we going toget both Azaris? Like there, it's
so fun in thong song too,like having them together. Yeah, there
was no part of me that wasn'tlike so psyched at the possibility of getting

(01:11:23):
both of them back again. Um, even what we end up getting,
which is sort of interchanging them inthe future, you know as need yea.
Yeah, it was awesome and justI'm so psyched about Twosari's Yeah,
we brought back flannels Are. Ilove her so much. Well, just
to writing your coattails, my MVLwas Flannels sorry, because she is the
one that has to wrangle all ofthese brainwashed idiots basically through the through truly

(01:11:46):
the weirdest situation these weird people haveever been in. And figure it out.
Yes, so hats off to flannelsare back for a second bit.
I picked Mona. Yeah, Ithought that I'm not really stepped up and
went above and beyond her the callof duty here for her because like,
not only did she have to likebreak out of sort of the brainwashing of

(01:12:06):
loom World, but she also sawthe opportunity to rewrite their lives and did
it. And she really liked ifshe hadn't written that they they gaped get
their memories back, what would wehave had? You know? Nope?
Absolutely, m shall we play somecards to save the timeline? Let's do

(01:12:27):
it because we have a bunch andmost of them are mine. You did
phenomenally in this episode. I tried. I tried really really hard. Okay,
So my scenarios are your favorite flavorof mush is Blank and coming soon
to Fate plus blank starring Blank andBlank. That's right, folks, A
triple carter, a trifle, there'salways don't even know that a thing,

(01:12:50):
but I like it. M Starshipreally jumped the shark after all. Fitzer
Mala got Blank and are oh timidand they're fated to have some plague.
All right, solution slash people Ihave mister Parker's call the SAC. It's
the Community Helpers trap your friends inknockoffs of popular television shows. That feels

(01:13:15):
like it could have been on theprop if the prop was from season six.
You know that's great and kiss whilethe ship explodes. And I also
have a mush vending machine perfect,I have Ultimate bud Swag and done,
which they don't actually do, butI feel like they could have gotten to
at some point. You kicked asson these cards. Yeah, okay,

(01:13:36):
yes, this is the first timewhere I've felt like everything is too obvious
or not funny, Like for anepisode sur Fertile, I felt very writer's
blocking. Yeah. So for me, I like I came up with a
couple of them really quickly, andthen the other ones I had to like
give myself some time and go back, and I got a bunch of them,
and I was like, I rememberthat we wanted to have more of

(01:13:56):
the of the white cards because wewant we need to have more of those.
So I was like, let's justgo crazy and do everything I can
think of. You killed it,so that's that's what I got. Killed
it, killed it, killed it. Thank you. So let's play some
big Bingo. We have our newone, You're Not Yourself, which which
everyone was not Nobody themselves. Finallywe have John Constantine fire Hands we do,

(01:14:20):
which I've been waiting for this.I feel like every episode he's like,
you know, fire hands and asong coming on. So it kind
of kind of light on Bingo.But that's okay because you know, we
all still have hills to climb.Is this our first a song coming on?
No? The first one was wasour second episode, Satanists Apprentice.

(01:14:42):
Oh right right, we did theanimated one animated Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I forgot. I was like,this wasn't what I would have assumed
would be our first song. Butit's not. No, I mean we're
still God. The day we getto sense and saltibility or whatever. I
made it stupider. I I loveI love that one so much, and
I have shown I well, i'lltalk about it when we get to I've

(01:15:04):
shown it to a friend of minewho's a big Bollywood fan. Yeah.
I want I want someone to caston that episode. That could be a
one where we pull people in.But anyway, I think it's my time
to roll. It is your turnto roll. Wow, we're often running
this has been a fun bingo episode. But let's get back to formula.

(01:15:25):
All right, Rolling four season seasoneight, We're gonna roll again. Season
five, Season five. You're currentlyin Let's go for five O three five
oh three is gonna be miss mekiss me, love me, miss me,
kiss me love me? Is thisthe uh? Is this back in

(01:15:46):
Chicago? This is indeed back inChicago where Ava gets drunk and sings on
stage. Yes, yeah, thisis this is her in or like gold
dress right, No, no,sorry, it's not Chicago. It's Los
Angeles. Um, this is sorry, this is sysod is what I was
thinking of, but I mis understood. But the synopsis. When a new

(01:16:11):
Bliff lands the Legends in nineteen fortyseven Los Angeles, it puts them on
the trail of Benjamin Bugsy Siegel,Sarah Ray, and Constantine devise a plan
to capture him. Ava struggles withbeing on the sidelines with Rory. We're
up to a great news start,aren't we. We are indeed, and
it's not too deep into the lureof season five yet. We're just having
some fun, right, It's it'stime for us to have a little bit
of a yeah, Laura break afterthis episode. Yes, cool, cool,

(01:16:38):
well, well, thank you.I look forward to your bingo win.
You're you're just honest to goodness,beat us to the punch bingo win
in the future. Yes, Ilook forward to it as well, when
I will make you watch the gaysat IKEA and again, folks, if
anyone cares about making their own waverider, it will be up when this
episode's up Daily knockoff dot com.Go check out all the pictures and and

(01:16:59):
download your things and figure out howto make one yourself, and we will
put a link in the show notes. Yes, yeah, that's the thing
easy that we both know how todo it. Anyway, Thank you for
listening, y'all rock, but remember, do not cause podcasters. We're legends.
Always hold on To DC's Legends ofTomorrow is produced by Zach Moore as
part of the Always Hold Onto podcastfamily. Listen to Zach's other great podcasts

(01:17:24):
wherever you're hearing this, and checkout even more podcast action on the Always
hold on to Smallville Patreon page.You can find more Legends Goodness on social
at Legends of Always, and feelfree to send us an email at Legends
of Always at gmail dot com.Hashtag save a hot to clot and rate
and review us in app. Pleasedo that, please, please please you
beautiful nerd view. Thanks for listening, NAW time