020: 4x12, The Eggplant, The Witch & The Wardrobe

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey Tricia, Hey Matt, what'syour purgatory? Like, oh god,
oh, I can't imagine it wouldbe worse than a fake Ikea. Probably
the grocery store. Really, that'san issue because like there's just a land
of possibilities there. I think that'sthe problem, there's too many possibilities.

(00:21):
What's yours? I think my stressdream is still it's opening night and you
haven't been to any rehearsals, butyou're in it. You've never seen the
show go, so like it's Buffy, yes that yeah, that's yeah.
But it's also like I'm in thescene that won't end and people are getting

(00:41):
anger and anger with me, Butlike what's my line? And I'm like,
I should we jump into the showand ask our special guests the very

(01:07):
same question. Yes, let's dothat. Our very special guest for this
episode, just because we thought itwould be fun. Mostly I thought it
would be fun. Is my girlfriendDiana. Hello, you don't have to
lean and of course you're listening toalways hold on to DC's Legends of Tomorrow.
Welcome back everybody towards the end ofthe season here, but somehow the

(01:29):
fates have rewarded nutritiona with your favoriteepisode they have. It was I was
expecting to probably end up choosing thisfor my first Bingo episode, if I
ever won Bingo. Increasingly feels likeI'm never going to do that, But
then you know, I rolled thedice last time. I liked that it
was my dice roll and it cameup with season four, episode twelve.
That's the episode for today. Theegg Plant, the Witch, and the

(01:49):
Wardrobe, a title that I didnot realize until way late in my life
watching this. You said that likelast week, and I'm like, what
part didn't you get? The eggplant? I think the egg plant,
like I understood the wardrobe, andI just thought they were saying something.
I think I just thought they're sayingsomething funny, and then I suddenly realized
that, like, oh, thetext messages is the egg plant and Tabitha's
the witch. Oh I thought Norawas the witch layers here, but yeah,

(02:15):
so Danae like Tricia might know theanswer to this, But like,
what is before before Tricia came intoyour life? What is your exposure to
I don't know DC the arrow verse. Let's tomorrow, like, like,
are you in this world at all? Or is this now like your first
couple journeys on the Wavewrider. Yeah. I don't want to sound like a

(02:36):
total normy. I like I watchedDC and Marvel movies. But I feel
bad because any time I watch episodesof this with her, I have to
be like, wait, so who'sthat? Even in this one, I
was like, what's her name?Wait? Who's going on here? Who's
the one in the trench? Idon't understand. There was a relatively frequent
confusion between Nora and Zari. Yeah, I don't know why. Sure,

(03:00):
they're both for everyone's gorgeous. Ihave. My top note is that everyone
is hot in this show. Iwas just like, this kind of isn't
fair Number one role of a cW show. Yes, everyone has to
be hot, be attractive, andethnically diverse cast of a c W show.
As a would say, someone saidI was ethnically ambiguous at an auditions.

(03:23):
Is that a compliment? No?I was ten okay, oh no,
go fuck yourself? Yeah okay?Is that your purgatory? Just big
just being in that audition loop's onend, waiting and then they just go,
you're ethnically ambiguous. We would loveto have you and me going.
I don't feel very good about this. Yeah, so if like, obviously

(03:46):
it wouldn't be legended tomorrow. Ifyou were forced to create a time traveling
podcast like the one you're currently on, what would be the show or the
property or the idea, like anythingthat you're like a big fan of,
Like, where are you coming fromwith that? Oh? Man? Probably?
Oh, but I don't think it'sDC. I mean I don't.
It doesn't have to be so likeI probably do like an Advengers one or

(04:12):
Star Trek because my name is Deannaand I may or may not have been
named after Diana Troy. So theonly other Deanna I know Deanna Troy.
So maybe cool. Alright, I'venever seen Next Gen or any of the
Star Treks iss to be honest,I've watched like individual episode. We've talked
about this a couple of times.Still the most surprising thing about you huge

(04:33):
Star Trek guy, and I amnot a Star Trek. I mean,
I like, I know a lotabout Star Trek, but I've never really
watched it. Yeah. Is itthe same way that Yeah, I've never
seen more than one episode of DoctorWho, but I'm like, oh,
sure the Cyberman. Yeah, alwaysgot a new companion now. Okay,
well, I hope she works out. You definitely know what that means.

(04:55):
Yeah, I know all these words. Oh fuck it, dolic, you
know, look cool again. We'retalking four twelve. The Eggplant, the
Witch, and the Wardrobe aired Apriltwenty second, twenty nineteen, written by
Morgan Faust and Daphne Miles, directedby Marzio Okay, and ratings Tricia,

(05:15):
I'm sorry this season low season lowof point eight five. Does that mean
it goes up after this or it'sjust a season low it does? Ok
yeah? The season for now,I bet no, they didn't. They
weren't in the crossover this year.No, but it did help them anyway.
Yeah, but we talked about HelenaDali and it did help. But

(05:38):
they end with like one million something. Okay, that's not too bad.
So yeah, So our team Rundownright now is Sarah Ray, Mick,
Nate Ava who just recently this yearjoined the cast full time. Gary also
just joined the cast full time,Charlie who I love, Constantine, Mona,
and Nora Ish because Norris were ofin a weird position in this season.

(06:01):
She's like trying to go good,but she's like Spens most of the
season, locked up in the timeBureau and she's witchy stuff. Yeah,
Norah's living in Vancouver full time.She's not necessarily here full time. Yeah,
yeah, she's she's here because herhusband is here. Yeah. I
was gonna say Dana Nora is marriedto Ray in the show, like oh
in real life. Yeah, andrealize okay, because they had they had

(06:24):
a love connection in this episode,right, Yeah, they end up like
they've had they've been love interests sinceshe was a villain last season and like
he like felt bad because he almostkilled her one episode. And then like
they bonded a a thing. It'slike it's a whole thing. But basically
it was like, well, whohas chemistry with Brendan Rath his wife?
Ye and yeah, and and ultimatelyher like this is half remembered and we

(06:48):
should go back to the video tapeto figure it out. But like her
kind of being cut from the showis what gets He then leaves the show
kind of because of that, Likeit like it didn't make sense for them
to live up. You know,they had a kid and stuff. So
it's like it doesn't unfortunately end superwell with all that, but it's it's

(07:09):
a little out of some people's control. But anyway, now that we're down,
let's recap recap. In the wakeof Hank Haywood's death, Nate is
dealing with very difficult emotions and havinga dad who takes childhood dreams way too
far. But who cares about that? Because Sarah hasn't seen Ava for two
weeks after a particularly harsh breakup fightand is missing her boot. Oh and

(07:30):
neuron stuff. There's definitely a lotof neuron stuff happening. And I totally
remember exactly where we are in thatplotlarm I figured you totally remember. You're
definitely right on track. You've gotall the yeah, got your like conspiracy
yarn connecting all of Yeah, itall connects to Bishop somehow, and I'm
not really sure how, but donk, Bishop isn't worry about it. Yeah,
Gianna, I'm sorry, we're justsaying so many stupid work. No,

(07:54):
No, it's fine. I'm tryingto fall I'm just gonna follow your
guys lead. This wasn't your firstEP episode of Legends, was it?
I think it was the first episode. First episode we watched was Necromancing the
Stone, and then I was like, we need to watch the Ikea episode.
I think it really like the Ikeaepisode. So the reason why I
forced Diana to be on the showwith me, I was trying to get

(08:16):
you to get a cat on theshow, but that did not work out,
which is fun. Yes, butshe'll she'll be forced into an adventure.
Eventually, they'll be forced into it. Is because you and I keep
talking about forcing our significant others towatch this ridiculous show that we're watching out
of order, out of funny,because like neither of them really has any
no no, Like, this isn'tsomething that you watched previously. This is
something that you were only watching becausethe two of us are forcing you guys

(08:39):
to watch it, and I thinkthat's very fun. I also think it's
fun to talk about things with peoplewho have a totally different perspective than we
do, as people who have seenthese episodes four hundred times or at least
this one episode. And also becauselike this episode in particular worked for me
because it is not super plotty whilestill having like plot stuff in it,
it's most like character and relationship stuff. And also it's very gay, so

(09:03):
it's fun to have your girlfriends talkingabout the gay stuff. Is this like
was this one that kind of blewup like gay Twitter or gay Tumbler at
the time, like because I feellike it might have been. I think
so, But I'm going to behonest, I wasn't like super active in
the online community for the show duringthis time. Part of it is like
there were certainly like portions where Iwas trying to avoid Twitter when the show

(09:26):
was on so that I wouldn't getspoiled because I don't have cable. Sure,
so I was like, I'm gonnawatch it tomorrow. Don't tell me
what's happening. But I know that, like definitely the gays enjoyed the show
because it's full of lesbian tropes.I love that, Like this show is
so obviously written with queer people inthe writer's room, because like they get
so much stuff right. It's notlike when Will and Grace used to handle

(09:46):
like lesbian characters and it's like,wait, you're othering lesbians? You asshold
you know, like well it wasabout white gay so yeah, anyway you
pointed this out to nutrition, Butlike this episode is sorry, I won't
steal that thunder yet. No,No, it's totally fun. We can
see each other thunder all the time. So Yeah, one of the things
that I was thinking when I wasputting together our notes is that, like

(10:09):
I was like, usually we doa ship blog, right, like somewhere
in the in the episode of thepodcast, we'll talk about like we'll just
break down the relationships and what's goingon, because it's all happening behind all
of the plotting nonsense that we're talkingabout. Like this is one of the
episodes, and one of the reasonsI love it is because it's one entire
ship blog. Like there is nothingto this episode that isn't something that we
would put in the ship blog.So we're going to just talk about the

(10:31):
relationships because those are the plot.Like each relationship is its own a story,
B story, C story, allthe way down to like an F
story. I think in this episode, I will point out there's like there's
like ten minutes in the beginning thatit's an episode of Buffy, and then
it's instantly into that. But it'sall all in the in the service of
like where the fuck is Eva?You know, how do you feel like

(10:52):
it's an episode of Buffy? Itsuddenly it's it's all demons and someone's getting
it, Like it seems a littlebit okay. So we start with like
something bad has happened, right,like Sarah is coming to her in Ava's
place, and like clearly like shitwent down, it's all it's all disheveled.
And then when we actually find Ava, thanks to magical craziness from John

(11:16):
and or Norah or yeah, both, we get to like kind of like
a kind of creepy image of likealmost an emaciated Ava in like her underwear
in the middle and like a catatonicstate in this circle of Hell and all
this stuff around her. It justfelt like something out of Buffy to me,
where I'm like, oh, thisis like mystically and like supernaturally a

(11:39):
little dark for this show. That'scool. Yeah, I definitely is,
like I think some of the darkestof the show gets. And it also
has the line from Ray of likegreat news Hank was killed by a demon
right like great fantas are. Yeah, I think it's the darkest that this
Like you're saying that the darkest thatthis demon story ever got. Its like

(12:00):
even when we go to Hell,it's like, oh, fun, we're
in Hell, right, even whenwe go to Hell, it's like,
hey, let's have fun with theTriumvirate and like do you all this other
like meet these demons that hate Johnand you know, eventually we go to
Hell to did we find Lucifer orthis this time that we go to Hell,
like this time to find Ray.After this is when he runs into

(12:20):
super cool Vandal Savage. Yeah VandalSava being just a really Vandal Savage.
Yeah exactly. But yeah, sowe get like all this, like the
beginning is kind of like we reallylike plot stuff. So it's like,
you know, we talked about previousepisodes like the Getaway and where they're like
arguing about how Sarah Ava had afight and they haven't talked to each other

(12:41):
in a couple of episodes, likeAva's been gone for a couple of episodes,
and I mean partly to like youknow, relieve this around on the
writers to include every character. Butthen we start off this episode with Sarah
knocking on the door and not beingable to get Ava, and then yeah
they find her like covered in weirdsymbols and turns out that Ava is being
prepared. Yeah real gross, Likejust just the idea of that, Like

(13:03):
again, like that feels like aBuffy or like maybe even an angel thing
like yeah, yeah, making makingmagic dark. Yeah, and like so
in order to save her, likeSarah has to go into her purgatory and
pull her out or whatever. Andthen so like we dropped Sarah into purgatory
and it's not Ikea. Yeah,So like I want to get Yeah,
I want to get your perspectives onthis. As someone who hasn't really watched

(13:26):
the show, this is like maybeyour third episode just because of like sitting
in and watching stuff and I'm watchingit, how what is your feeling on
the show so far? So asa standalone episode, I thought it was
really cute. I liked getting toknow the characters. I was using her
Tricia's notebook to take notes about who'swho. I have my own ships that

(13:48):
I kind of made. I thinkI put Charlie and Nora at one point
because oh, Charlie and Zari,right, I keep mixing them up,
but it's easy to follow along.I thought it was really cute. I
love the trope of you know,to a queer couple going to Ikea together.

(14:09):
Remind me of when we went toIkea for the first time. And
now here we are fifteen minutes intothe episode, folks, and now we
know why we're here. Yeah,well it was because we went to Ikea
like early in our relationship. Yeah, because like, okay, so some
behind the scenes nonsense. So westarted dating and I had just bought this
house and it was cutted. LikeI had a working bathroom and that's it.

(14:31):
Like the bathroom wasn't done, itwas just functional. But I didn't
have a kitchen, I didn't havea living room. I had a bedroom.
Cool, so Diana's place then,so like y'all like, hey,
welcome to my shack that I livein. So over the course of like
the first month, my house gotdone. So like we actually put in
the kitchen, we have like theliving room done. You know, it's
now usable, but I have nofurniture. So I was like, hey,

(14:54):
you want to go to Ikea getsome So that's what happened, went
to Ikia about some that's try Iput it together. Now. It's like
an initiation though if you're gay,you have to go to Ikea with your
partner at some point, and itis so something I enjoyed from the episode.
I thought it was really cute thatit was kind of like testing their

(15:16):
their partnership right, So it's showinglike they had obviously commitment issues, the
fear of the future or the fearof growing old, and it's all happening
in this psycho or you can playhouse. So I did like that.
It was it was easy to follow. It felt very gay. Like the
first time I saw a giant ikeawas going with Trisha and I was like,

(15:37):
I want to live here as youcan everything works right, which I
mean, I know that wasn't Sarahand Ava's experience because you know, Ava
might die if they don't get out, and that was has been there for
like two weeks too, so likeyou know, the it's the rose has
lost its luster there, Yeah,which totally understandable. So I want to
talk a little bit about like likewhat you mentioned, like the issues at

(15:58):
their work through, because like theyused the store as a way to work
through like actual domestic issues for thesetwo people. I think you could probably
map it onto any relationship and itwould work. Like I'm sure it also
works for straight people, but whoknows what's that like? But so,
like the first thing is like billingthe wardrobe, which is where that comes

(16:19):
from the title, which I thinkis funny because you've got like Eva who's
very regimented and very like, weare going to follow the instructions to the
letter. Although it's funny that shereads the instructions because everybody who's bought anything
from My Keya knows there are nowords on those instructions. There are no
words, and you figure it out. That's the actual relationship test. And

(16:41):
Sarah's like, nah, I gotthis and just starts like pulling things out,
So I did find that funny,and then it falls apart and they
have to actually follow the instructions together. So like like Matt, so what's
your take on this? I lovethis. I love this episode so much.
And again it's it's that perfect mixfor this show where like we just
said right like it's fucking dark youshould in the beginning, you know,
for this show. And then it'slike, oh god, now we have

(17:03):
to go to purgatory. What's thisgoing to be like some like you know,
void with with red and fire everywhere. No, it's like Kia and
now we have to work through ourrelationships. I'm like perfect, like that's
that's why we're here. And likethe way that Sarah introduces her to her
as like no, if you checkout, you die. And regardless of
like not even reacting to like,oh my god, I might die.
It's that's a little on the nose, isn't it? Little on these our

(17:25):
lives are a little stupid, aren'tthey. Yeah? No, I love
that. I also just like we'llget to it. I could talk about
their like Ikea trials, Mega storeexcuse a store with like oom blots or
something. I could talk about theirIkia trials for the rest of this episode
if you want to, because whogives a shit about Hayworld. But where

(17:45):
they end up with this where likeyou know, Sarah took the lead.
The minute it's together, it collapsesand it's like, oh, I guess
we have to work together, andand you know, find the compromise.
And at the end they still forgetone of those stupid little, fucking wild
Dallas that we've all lost during there'salways something like yeah, and and the
lesson of that is like, look, we worked together, we didn't make

(18:06):
something perfect, but it's ours.Can we live with that? Yes?
And off to the next thing thatis lovely? Yeah, exactly. So
them going through the wardrobe, solike, I love that whole thing.
They work through their issue, Likethey're like immediate issue, right, is
that that fight? Like we haveto get past the fight. Ava had
been like saying, oh, it'stotally fine that Hank is like torturing these

(18:27):
magical creatures or whatever, and she'slike, no, that's not really what
I was trying to say, Likeyou were arguing with me and I freaked
out and I just said things Ididn't mean, so them sort of like
figuring that out. I think hereacted really like ah to that. Yeah,
it was sweet. I thought itwas sweet. Yeah, you know,
it's not perfect, but it's ours. That's a very Yeah. The
first time I watched the episode,I teared up at all the little like

(18:48):
the little lessons, the little heartbeatmoments. Yeah. Yeah. But one
of my favorite lines from the episodeis when they go through the wardrobe and
they end up in the mattress areaand Sarah goes out of the closet but
not out of the store. Andthe gay joke, because it was two
great jokes in one. When she'slike, let's go to Narnia and then

(19:11):
she goes, well, we're outof the closet. My mind was blown.
I was like, that was soeffortlessly done, and it was beautiful,
right, there's no pause for laughing. She's winning it. But that's
the beauty of the show too,where it's like they let these people be
funny, you know, and it'snot like that laugh out loud thing.
But also they let each other.They let the characters like enjoy each other.

(19:32):
Sometimes too less here, but likestill they're like they're saying that for
each other. I'm just like,you know, they're just like, let's
make this survivalbal you know, let'ssay Narnia, Let's say you know,
a closet joke or whatever we've alsotalked about in a previous episode. How
like the further end of the showyou get, the more Sarah's like at
ease with making jokes, She's justlike whatever, yeah, gives a ship.

(19:53):
Yeah, because the ship anymore wasgoing to get through this. It's
fine, We're fine. I've seendinosaurs in twenty twenty se or twenty seventeen,
you know, like I'm impervious towhatever bullshit is going on around me.
Right now, there was a unicorn. It was stock right, still
one of my favorite jokes. Iguess we had to do this for three
more years. To get to that. But the unicorn, it was tick

(20:15):
yeah, Nate just being like,oh my god, it's beautiful. And
then it made killing someone, shootit, shoot it. That's just a
very easy joke, but it hisdelivery of it makes you think mattresses.
So yeah, and the fact ofthe violence fellows a browny joke. Yeah.
So then then we're in the Mattresses. Which, so the whole time
that they're in Mega's store, they'relike being told that Tabitha is coming.

(20:37):
Tabitha is coming, and we're closingin an hour. Yeah, you're closing
in an hour? Is Tabitha iscoming? Like they're starting to turn off
the lights and stuff, you know, the store will be closing in X
minutes, which, honestly, whenthat happens in a store, I have
a weird panic attack. I knowI'm not going to get stock stuck in
the store, but there's a partof me from childhood that is convinced that
if the store is going to close, it's going to close with me in
it. And I do feel likethe episode is intentionally playing on that fear

(21:03):
that I think we all have thatif the store closest and you were still
inside, you die. Can Itake a personal minute here, Yes,
as a kid was in Walmart andFlorida because I fucking lived it up as
a kid on vacation, don't getme wrong, and like a tropical storm
hurricane would ever hit and they werelike, Okay, nobody can leave the
store. And then the automated thing, like almost immediately after that was like

(21:25):
the store is closing in fifteen minutes, please head to the exit. And
I was just like, mom,what do we do You like they'll let
us stay, Like are you sure? Because yeah, I just want to
follow the rules. Yeah, itwas always like we have to tell the
store right now something bad's gonna happen. But no, they would have let

(21:47):
me out regardless. But yes,like that, there's part of this this
episode that that plays on that itis a little bit of a bummer slash
annoying that you don't get to knowwho Tabitha is in this episode. I
love it though, Like that's it'sa rare moment where this show is like
we're gonna wait, We're gonna holdour Carna save it just a second.
Pretty early in the next episode.Still one of my favorite villains of the

(22:08):
entire series, but not even bigan ironic, like, I just love
that idea. So they end upin this area for mattress. The reason
that I brought up the closing thingis because I like the other storreclerks.
So Gary is one of the storeclerks because they've also has some Gary issues
to work out. Love it,love it. Also just Gary is funny
and like the lines that he hasto say are also very funny and great

(22:30):
with Gary space. But the otherstortclerkers, like, you're showing them the
mattresses already, because you imagine ifmattress shopping was like this, the minute
you sit on Yeah, no,you find out how old you're going to
be, follow that relationship. That'swhat you're really doing here. You're not
deciding on a mattress. You're decidingon the rest of your life and how
long this is going to go.There is such a beautiful, magical realism

(22:51):
to this scene that I think theypull off really well with absolutely no visual
effects whatsoever. It is just cutsand casting. Yeah, I know,
and it works like magic to me. But like from everything, like if
people don't remember, like they're infront of what it's like a long like
a goldilocks row of mattresses, right, and and they're in front of one

(23:12):
and then it's like, oh,only a five year warrantine. It's only
two fifty, Like this is abullshit mattress. And then they're like clearly
on a conveyor belt and they justlike slide the next one, and this
is the one conveyor belt and theyclearly get sped up in post because they're
not weird, like you can seethat sort of like balancing on the conveyor
belt because a little bit of thatshakiness. Well, what's the what's the

(23:34):
second one? It's like fifteen years? It was fifteen years, yeah,
because I commented, So they siton the mattress and they start getting like
wrinkles and gray hair and stuff.And the reason I know it's fifteen years
is because I made a comment oflike, in fifteen years, they're going
to be like at most fifty.Yeah, but like they the makeup made
them a little older than than theyactually would love to age them, but
I don't know. Maybe fighting crimelike does that to you, sure,

(23:57):
sure, yeah, but but they'restill there's still Jess and Katie here.
Yeah, they're still Jess and Katie. They just got some makeup on,
and then the next mattress had fiftyyear warranty. Yeah, which, oh
my god, if I could finda matress that had a fifty year warranty,
amazing. Lump in my throat.When they sit down and they look

(24:17):
at each other. Yeah, Idon't know, what do you guys think
of the casting here? Of whatare they supposed to be, like,
seventy year old? They're probably aroundeighties. Two of them are in their
thirties. Yeah, so generous castingthen, but yeah, definitely generous casting.
Sus we're definitely not within their eighties. But no, or if they
were, they look great. Greatjob ladies. Yeah. So I really

(24:38):
enjoyed that scene because I don't know, I don't know how many like queer
people watch this show. I'm notsure, but so I know, like
growing up, I didn't have alot of gay influences, like a lot
of people to look up to.So the first time I watched it,
I did. I tear up alot at like emotional things. I'm too
emotional, but it was to seeso they're discussing their future and they sit

(25:02):
down and you get to look atit and go this is them imagining being
an elder gay couple and like Ican be being able to like kind of
see that for yourself and be likeI could be that. I could be
that, whether it's with the personI went now or you know, there's

(25:23):
that but just some check. Butit was. It was a really beautiful
scene and the way they were talkingout their fears of the future and that
commitment and can I see myself andalso reflecting in the fears of you know,
I know it's getting better and it'sbetter than it used to be.
Like but when I was in highschool, it was the furthest thing for

(25:45):
my mind, Like I was alate bloomer, and so being able to
kind of have those conversations and say, hey, I'm all in. I'm
all in walking in the streets withyou holding your hand, I'm all in
growing old with you, and Idon't care what happens. It was just
kind of an extra emotional I don'tknow if that was their intention, but
it was. It was very beautiful. It was very beautifully done, and

(26:07):
yeah, I cried a little.I would say it wasn't it wasn't not
their intention to do something like that, because, like I said, I'm
pretty sure a lot of the castis queer and we know Ketto, but
I'm sure there are others. Butit's like, yeah, there's that thing
of like we've never really had olderKrick Cobbles to really look at. I
mean like obviously they exist, butthey haven't really been like visual. Yeah,
so it's always fun. Like evenlike I've seen like tech talks and

(26:30):
stuff of like women that have beentogether for thirty years or whatever, it's
like, oh, that's really sweet, Like there's a fiew share cry at
those two. Yeah, but alsolike it's it's also for me for the
from the prospective of the show,A the casting was great because they still
look like them like pretty well andthey my guess is that they did that
thing where like they did the linereadings as like Katie and jested the line

(26:51):
readings first, Yeah, because it'svery similar like the you're saying, like
the older women watched Katie and toit and then did it themselves. Yeah.
Yeah, but I think is alwayslike a great way to do it
because you can get through of thosemannerisms and that that sort of speaking pattern
down. But also like I likefrom being the giant Sarah Lance fan that

(27:14):
I am. I like the factthat they're addressing the fact that she was
like traveling through time kissing every girlshe found, you know, like like
she makes that with whatever do youmean? Oh my god, that's right.
Yeah, she's Sarah Lance a lot. But so there's that element too
of like, you know, Avawasn't there to see Sarah flirting with everyone

(27:36):
throughout time, but like she's awareof it. You know, Sarah's not
inexperienced. They also have that issuethat you get in quick communities where it's
like people who are fully homosexual havesome issues with people who are bisexual because
they can date whoever, and likeso like, you know, we see
Ava have an issue with it laterwhen Sarah has to go and like deals

(28:00):
with for christ Is and If andEarth when Oliver dies. That's right.
Yeah, I was thinking of theissue with with John when she out about
that, and then yeah, thatwas the other episode that we had was
first episode we had watched together,right episode, which is also great and
gay so much gangst but yeah,where she like, here's about John and
she's thinking about that, so likehe was aware of it, and it

(28:21):
does make her uncomfortable because she's notlike that. And you know, is
Sarah going to get bored, whichof gross comes up in the next one
too, she canna get bored withher life. But I also just really
like the fact that they sit downand like Ava's first reaction is like,
oh, you're still really hot becauselike you also think about getting older and
not being as attractive, you know, Yeah, absolutely, And I love

(28:41):
I love that the end of thislike thing, obviously they come to terms
with it and they yes, it'sit's about If the first one was about
compromise, this one's about commitment.And at the end of it, they
start making out and fall into thecouch together, and I'm like, awesome,
Like they're just gonna like fool aroundthose old ladies for a second as

(29:03):
much as Megastore is gonna allow killer, you know, and they're just gonna
end up in the next place,which is household chores. Yes, so
it's there's dirty dishes in the sinkand they keep piling up. It's you
know, the lights keep going out, it's the mail keeps piling up.
Can we handle the garbage of dailylife together? The literal garbage, because
there is a garbage can that keepslike falling over and stuff, you know,

(29:25):
can you handle And it's not justcan we handle it, it's you
know, Sarah for so many yearshas been like splitting around the timeline with
you know, doing adventures, runningand the fact that in the start of
this season they had decided to movein together and then they couldn't. Sarah
had to go and fix all ofthe magical crap because they did it,
you know, normal stuff, normalstuff, totally normal stuff for a totally

(29:48):
normal couple. But so, yeah, so Ava has this issue of you
know, are you going to beable to settle down ever? And this
is the one that they don't solve. That's a good point because yeah,
how does it? And Sarah kindof turns around the name is gone essentially.
Yeah, So basically like like Sarahliterally is like I can't decide every
minute of forever right now. Likeshe gets fed up with it, and

(30:11):
you know, it's part of becauseit is really annoying to have all of
the stupid chores of daily life pilingup. So like that was years of
chores in thirty minutes, you know. But also, by the way,
are we supposed to be in theirapartment or are we in like a fake
like a keya kitchen fake? Okay, I believe their kitchen is a lot
nicer because they never nice apartment.They're barely in that fucking apartment. I

(30:33):
can't remember it. So's sure,like like Sarah's in it for the first
episode and then this the beginning ofthis episode, and I think the summer
camp episode because they're inventing, right, and that's it and then spoilers Dianna.
They're basically just like, do youwant to live on my spaceship?
And that's what this is her job. They shut down the time bureau.
She hads up on the wave rightthere. That's you hauling. That's hauling

(30:57):
exactly them two years though, soyou know, like that's yeah, they
can get the season three. Soit's been a year. It's been a
year after this point, well tomove into the spaceship. But yeah,
and then after year still fake twoyears, like six months, well it's
six months when Ava first asked herto move in, and she actually does
make a haul. Thats okay.She's like, I don't want to be

(31:18):
like hitching the old you haul upto the super Roube, which is another
reason why they're gay people on theshow. But yeah, this is the
one because Sarah's sort of like freaksout because she's stressed out because like this
is really annoying. She can't makeall these decisions so quickly because they're you
know, they're forcing them to gothrough all this relationship drama and if they
don't solve it and get out,Ava's gonna die and Sarah may die too.

(31:42):
But she's been there so taking takingthat part of it out of it
and just like looking at this andfrom the the I don't know the domestic
side of things, and I willI will answer this honestly as well.
Which one of you is the Avaand which one of you is the Sarah?
Which one of you is just likethe well, fuck the dishes,
then you know, Oh my god, I don't. I don't know.

(32:05):
And most things I am I feellike TA knows by that face. And
I think in most things I amEva. I think in terms of like
household stuff, I think you're stricterabout it. Yeah, I definitely,
yeah, but that doesn't necessarily haveto do the same thing, Like it's
not a control thing like it iswith Eva, where everything has to be
very regimented like for me, it'slike if you put something back in the

(32:27):
wrong place, it will irk me. Oh, I didn't know that.
I'll just move it. I didn'tknow that. I'm learning this right now.
I'll just move it. I won'tfreak out or anything, but like
it will irk me. But it'snot like, UH didn't mean, because
I am the person who is likethis is I don't this is all overwhelming
and I don't want to do it. I think there are moments two where

(32:51):
both of us, we have differentthings that either of us will kind of
get overwhelmed, but we know howto kind of communicate to each other like
Okay, you're having a moment,like all come in, or I'm having
a moment. You know. Iknow I'm emotional, and I like yeah,
like I said, I cry atthose tiktoks, I cry at poppy
commercial. There's a lot of timesthe tris will be a little babe and

(33:12):
she'll have to make sure I'm okay. But I don't know. I feel
like I'm pretty level headed. Ifeel it could be ava. Neither one
of us is crazy. I'm crazy. No, No, I just mean
in terms of like neither one ofus gonna like throw up our hands and
like freak out. Yeah, butbut neither one like we're also not fully
Ava, not fully Sarah. Ifeel like we both like fall very much
in the middle. But in termsof like Ava's neurosis, I definitely have

(33:35):
those neurosis. And we've talked abouthow like I'm a binder person. Yes,
you would be a binder in ain a different Yes, in a
Disney musical where I'm well, actuallyI said that I would be a TV
remote that just keeps changing the channelon you. But that's right, Yeah,
I remember you were Oh I wasa wine opener. Yes, you're
a corkscrew. But what about youand Kat since kas and not here to

(33:58):
advocate for herself. Yeah, I'mthe Sarah a cat is the one that's
like, hey, no big deal, you you put the chicken on the
wrong shelf in the fridge again.But just just so you know, I'm
like, Okay, I'll try,and I'll try, and I will be
the one, like I'm I'm actuallythe one that cleans the most. But
that's because I'm the one that's justlike, fuck all this cat hair,

(34:20):
like I have to get rid ofit, you know, like that that
I am. I am definitely theone to go more to Like, well,
then I guess we just knoked theapartment because I don't know how to
deal with it. Like that's definitelyme. I would have turned around and
Cat would have been gone, andI would have had to you know,
run through the bottom of ikea tofind her. Yeah, exactly. Spoilers

(34:42):
anyway, so household chores, Idon't really solve it. Sarah freaks out.
It turns around Ava's gone, Sothen she ends up like, you
know, leaving the room because Iguess you can just leave this room and
you have a fight, and sheends up in like a warehouse floor with
just like so many Avas. Andthis is I think the first time we're
introduced the idea of different models ofAva. Yeah, and we don't know

(35:02):
if it's like here, it's presentedas a joke, it's you know,
like a fantasy thing, but turnsout it's it's very real. It's real.
Yeah, like his later episodes whenwe encounter other Avas, like there
are very specific types of Eva,Like there's soldier Ava who's also a certain
photoshop Ava AVVA. Did you guyssee Barbie yet? Yes? Yes,

(35:27):
it reminds me of the moment whereMargot Roppie Barbie is just like I'm just
gonna wait here for one of themore leadership oriented Barbies. Because our Ava,
as we find out later, isthe model Bossi Ava. So this
was not established up until this point, Like she's been on the show since
the beginning of season three. We'veknown she was a clone since late season
three, and it's just presented aslike the Avas are the perfect woman,

(35:51):
like literally, that's why they're presentedtheir clones. They're there to be service
personnel. They're not robots. SoI don't know how like end of life
care works for clones, but becauseyou think, like a robot's not going
to grow old, but an avawill. An AVA will put a pin
in that for next season. Yeah, we'll talk about that when we get
to a Ava, you know.So it's this idea of them all being

(36:12):
like service oriented, but none ofthem seem to have specific jobs. But
then we find out that, likein this episode, they established the idea
of sexy Ava and assertive Ava andsporty I think there's off spice girls,
yeah kind of, but there islike a soldier one. There's a there's
whatever. Yeah, the cost weshould get get some pictures of these boxes

(36:32):
and put them on them. Ihave to imagine that Jess had a lot
of fun with this photo shoot.Oh it looks so fun, Like what
a fun hour of just yeah andthen imbodying these different things. So of
course Sa ends up in this placewhere these avas are all boxed up like
barbies, and she's like where isAva? And then Gary shows up because

(36:53):
he's a demon. Actually he's analien, but that's for a later thing,
and he's like he's he He saysthe creepiest thing like the whole like
do you want one to protect youor to whatever to please you? Like
I know he's saying it the wayhe needs to say it because this is
supposed to be a creepy line.But yeah, I was going back and
forth with Gary this whole episode,like that's pretty much the vibe. Yeah,

(37:16):
Like it was like he's cute andthen I was like he's all weird.
I kind of don't know. I'mlike, is he obsessed with Ava?
I'm kind of getting, you know, like the guy that follows you
home after work scar with Ava,but not in a swim fan way.
Okay, like, well, thankyou, he's not gonna but he does

(37:37):
love her. Yeah, I justfelt mixed. Yeah to me, he
would gladly take a bullet for her. Yeah yeah, like gladly take a
bullet for her and be like it'sskill. I mean, he does eat
people later in the show for her, but it's mostly like, can't do
this to DNA right now. I'msorry, I'm sorry, had a grip

(37:57):
on it and him with respect,You've got a pinky on it. But
we'll keep going like you're fighting forright now, and that's no one's fault.
That's not your fault. He'll takea bullet for her, He'll do
he'll do whatever she asks. Heis like he is her like perfect right
hand man who never who is alsolike you know every joke at the time

(38:19):
girl, which is a later plotpoint. He is. He is,
in my opinion, all like that. His main redeeming quality for me is
that he is the captain of theavalance ship. Yes, but but this
is where okay, like this,I feel like this is your most important
line from Sarah here. Yes youcould have you could have any fucking avor
you want, like pick them right, and any of them are yours.

(38:43):
He's like, all like, noneof them are Ava, and so she
ends up like the light illuminates overthe as is section, which is a
very weird looking phrase when you actuallysee it written out. But she goes
through and there is her Ava sittingon the ground, all sad and ava
like you know, you could havehad any of those other women, and
she's like, I don't want otherwomen, like obviously I want you.

(39:07):
Yep. It is when that ashis sign lights up, is when I
get the lump in my throat andthis shit a little bit of a tear
at this episode, like this islovely. This is that whole thing of
like you know, Captain, Isay it all the time where it's just
like I'm so glad I found younow after I've been through all the bullshit

(39:28):
and the heartbreak you know, andwhatever of other people where it's just like,
yeah, we are we are nowboth a bit you know, we've
been through the world. We're botha bit broken or in our own ways,
but still worth the price. Andlike that is that is encapsulated by
this here and Jess's performance when shesees Sarah come through and it is and
it's almost like it shocked in away of like what are you doing?

(39:52):
You could have had any one ofthem? You know, like that breaks
my heart in the very best way. It's so beautiful. Yeah, it
sucked the show for being so cute. Yeah, exact, it's so adorable
and it's so like poignant but alsostill being funny. You know, it's
really sweet. And then you knowthat just you know, Sarah choosing her
as she is, get gets ridof her like last fear, which is

(40:15):
her whole being a clone complex.And they are released and they're out back
in the world and Eva's safe andeverything's great. So they think Gary's there
to to cock block and did likethat. That is that is something we
should mention. Like the whole time, Gary is popping up in purgatory,

(40:35):
probably because he's like jumped into themagical seal and is like putting aromas at
them and he like wafting incense towardsAva, like we're gonna get through this
together. It's gonna be fine.But just Ava, because he doesn't really
care about Sarah. He couldn't careless about Sarah. Ava is amazing,
and he had a really dream whereshe was driving a car and he was
in a car seat in the back. I don't remember that. That was

(41:00):
in the very beginning when he wastalking in Nate speaking of work, Okay,
are we done with the Mega Store? Yeah? No, I was
just gonna say so, I lovedthe as Is scene because what she's I
get anxious and insecure sometimes, andso to me, that scene was literally
the perfect queer equivalent of like everygirl that's like, oh you think that

(41:22):
girl's pretty, Yeah, it's kindof hotter than me. You want to
be with that girl's yeah? WellI love that really emilated the whole.
You know, we all have identityissues, right, and we all have
those insecurities of like, Okay,they could find someone better. They could
you know, you could go toMajestic and find the mother hot you know,

(41:45):
queer leather jacket with the whole.You know, you could have everyone
you want, but you chose me. And so Tricia does have to a
lot kind of be like do youknow I love you? Do you know
you're the I'm dating you. Idon't want to go date somebody else,
do you? How much there's alot of efforts, so much effort to

(42:08):
mind one person who doesn't stock that'sthat's the only goal. Yeah, pretty
much, but that's that's everybody.Like everyone needs to be told every once
in a while, like or reminded. I feel like I certainly do exactly.

(42:30):
Hello, welcome to You're you're myidiot. I choose you, and
I go, oh, thank you. Thanks, I mean you had the
ultimate I choose you. You're married, dude. Yeah, that helped.
I hoped a little bit. Thatfelt that felt, that felt kind of
permanent. The ring in the Valegot married twice, but you know,

(42:53):
like then, so that was thelike the main that's the a story in
this episode. Yeah, how muchdo we have to get into this other
ship? I don't. We haveto get into it. We have to
talk. I love how it ends. But Hayworld will never make sense to
me until the finale, Yes exactly, until they make Hayworld. It doesn't

(43:15):
make sense. It's just stupid.But so let's let's breeze to this part
because this is very much our bstory, right is the Naden Hank stuff.
So Hank is dead. Nate hasfigured out that his dad was embezzling
money from the government to make hayWorld and also stealing and torturing magical creatures
throughout history. Yeah, he's shreddingdocuments to hide the fact that his father

(43:37):
was doing this. M he's stillvery much as you put as daddy issues.
Uh. And then he receives aphone call. This will on like
the first five minutes. He receivesa phone call and finds out that Hank
was actually building Hayworld, like inthe process of building it, and he
goes, hey, how is heHow is he keeping this quiet? He's

(43:58):
not Walt Disney in the sixties,you know, like, like, how
is this a secret? B couldyou truly talk to your son about nothing
like this? This is how youchoose to like show your love for your
son by secretly building the drawings thathe did as a child that he hasn't
thought about in fucking thirty years,you know, Like, I it's it's
all so asinine to me, Likelike that's the thing, Like if you

(44:22):
had told me that he was doingthis because he wanted to make money,
I would get I would buy that. I would get that this thing is
a little forced. It does getus to the finale really well, and
to like the emotional and I lovethe finale. I love where we go
with it, I really do,but like in these episodes, it just
feels fault. But this episode,like throughout the season, all we've seen

(44:42):
of Nate and Hank is that Hankis like distant. And my personal favorite
is from the first episode with Hankwhere he and Mick, Nate and Nicker
talking and what's your dad duty you? And he's like, he was never
emotionally there for me as a child. Yeah, And mixed reaction to that
is like, my dad was abusiveto the point where I burned him alive,
So keep crying. But yeah,so we see that, like Hank

(45:07):
is always kind of a you know, kind of a jackass to Nate and
like doesn't isn't very good at likebeing a dad and like showing you know,
emotion or that he he likes hisson, let alone loves his son,
although I know that you are onhis side. And the argument of
what does Nate's job? Yeah,I am, what is a deductive historian?

(45:31):
But that doesn't mean he's not abiff about it, you know,
like, well he is literally abiff. He is literally biff. Hank
is played in the show by theguy who Sorry Bright, Tom Wilson.
I caught that Yeah it's okay,Yeah, you haven't seen him physically,
but yeah, so like the factthat what we find out after he dies

(45:52):
is that like he had saved Nate'sstrowings and like that's like you said,
like that's how he's gonna show thathe loves his kid. So bizarre.
If this had been established before,if we knew that this was something Nate
was interested in, you know,like something like that, if we knew
Nate was a theme park guy,you know, something like a little bit
more would have helped. Even ifwe had gotten a flashback in one of

(46:15):
these early episodes with Hank of likeNate drawing stuff, sure, like establish
it somewhere else rather than pulling itup at the last minute, you know
four A one. He's got itframed in the kitchen table of like you
were so imaginative, somen what happened? You know whatever, like that you
have this crappy job. Yeah,exactly what do you even do? Your

(46:36):
credit cards are expired, you know. But anyway, like he shuts down
the construction and then he thinks twiceabout it, and he steals up and
stops the record. Yeah, hebasically is like you know this is my
dad's legacy, and I had achance to talk to him at the funeral
and I didn't. So this ishow I'm gonna show my love my idea.

(46:57):
But doing this thing that like ifanyone looks into this, it's going
to be like, where are thetax documents? How did you pay for
this? Right? The investigative reporterin me is like, like Lois Lane
shows up and she's like, wheredid this come from? Yeah? Is
this a Bearer bond from eighteen twelve? How did you get that? What
is this book? So that's sortof like the b story. Even though
I agree with you, like it'sthe least interesting part of this episode.

(47:21):
Yeah, it's like I get we'rejust being mean for a second. It
is a plot point in the showthat that I just never quite quite but
but it's necessary to get us tothe finale. But other than that,
I don't think that it it doesn'thave any as much emotion to it.
Yes, right, as we getfrom the Constantina Nora stuff. To me,
like that's one of the more interestingparts is this, because like I

(47:44):
wish we'd gotten more of them.Yeah, because like, so we get
them, they established them initially becauseof last season when they showed up at
the asylum that she was in inthe sixties and like constantly like she mentions
it and me blah blah blah,and then he left and he knew what
the order was doing. Well whatever. But like so we established that they

(48:05):
sort of have a relationship at thatpoint, and then they never really get
to hang out, no, becauseshe gets wrapped up in ray and yeah,
so like but no, it iscool to see these two people with
comparable skills or you know, likefrom that same world come at these problems
in a different way and kind ofspeak that that second language with each other,

(48:28):
whereas like normally it's just John beinglike, oh, it must be
the gem of Mama, mamma andwe have to love to do this and
we just kind of take his wordfor it. But like it's it's fun
to see him be able to bounceoff with somebody. Yeah, Like I
like that. So that's another thingthat I like about, Like when we
get Astra, when you've got twomagic people like talk, you don't just
have one guy, like you said, just like spurting magic stuff and no
one's there backstopping him. Whatever.But in addition to that. I also

(48:52):
like the reason I like them isbecause they don't have the same trauma,
but they both have a lot oflike darkness and trauma in their past.
Were like they sort of feed offof to get their magical mojo, and
I like seeing two people that cantalk about that. That's also kind of
why Constantine and Sarah have a goodrelationship is because they yes, like they're

(49:14):
the darkness to understands the other darkness. You know, I feel like I'm
failing a test because the well,no, like I took all these notes
and then you know, you guysare actually watching the show and I'm an
outside. So the theme park,I understood that he had severe daddy issues.
I thought it was really sweet thatbetween well between like you know,

(49:37):
like our parents. I think maybewe're the generation where toxic masculinity was still
very you know, yeah exactly,And so I'm like, okay, so
if the dad clearly didn't tell himhe loved him or whatever, he took
this really sweet. He saved allhis drawings when he was a kid and
he was making a theme park becauseyou know, we all know it's really
hard for dads to say I loveyou when are raised you know, in

(50:00):
a certain way. So I thoughtthat was really endearing and sweet, and
I did like that block point,thank you for being here. We're jerks.
I'm the bigger jerk here. Theydidn't set this up. Well,
I agree with you that it issweet, the show that we love and
devote so much free time to somuch. And can I say, like,

(50:24):
Danna, like you're giving it thereading that's intended, like I think
you understood it, and we're justtwo in the weeds here of just like,
well it should have been set upin three zero two then, and
you we're gonna do this set itup early. Otherwise it feels like it's
an emotional right, you know,right, turn it's just yeah, you
know, Rip Hunter never said anythingabout theme Parks, so I don't even

(50:45):
know about Yeah, no one's mentionedhim and forever anyway anyway, Yeah,
I mean I agree that, likeit is sweet if you're looking at it
like like you are, which islike purely from the perspective of not thinking
about like the narrative build up tothis, it's just like, oh,
look at this nice thing that hisdad did, and it is supposed to

(51:06):
be taken that way. It's likeit was nice but misguided, right,
Yes, is the way that it'ssupposed to be taken. But doesn't it
also feel because he busts into theroom against oh my gosh, what's his
name? Neroon? Yeah? OhI got it right, Neroon? Nicely
done? Doesn't that because that feelshis fire when he goes in and he
has a moment of like I wantto kill you because you killed my dad.

(51:28):
Yeah, and I was just kindof like, oh, yeah,
that's that whole unrequited. They bothlove each other but never told each other.
Now it's too late. Of coursehe's mad. I would probably do
right, Well, I wouldn't dothe same thing because I would think before
I ran in there, but youknow I would do a similar thing.
Yeah, but yeah, you tookthe opportunity away from me to actually reconcile
with this person. Yeah yeah,yeah he did. But you know there's

(51:52):
also the question of like, wouldhow would I Ank have told him about
this eventually? You know? No, I feel like he would have just
invited him to opening day, youknow, like he apparently couldn't talk about
this at all. Hey, yeah, and they would be like what are
you doing? Like you still andyou know, he wanted the book James
Taylor for Opening Day too, likethat was that was what the cards and

(52:15):
hemingway if possible. So were youfamiliar with like Constantine before this? No,
not not before you because I well, because I know when you popped,
like is that Constantine? And Iwas like yeah, because I liked
him from the three episodes. He'sgot this cool, easy air about him.
His hair's cool motherfucker in the world. Yeah, yeah, I like
that his tie is loose, likehe just he didn't care to fully put

(52:38):
the tie on, but he careda little bit, you know, it's
just perfectly. There's a much laterepisode where we find out that John doesn't
ever change his clothes. He justmagiced them into cleaning themselves so he never
has to wear a different clothing.But but like he will, you know,
like there's something I love about him, Danna that like it's it's that

(53:00):
vibe is so strong right where it'sjust like it is it is big dick
energy personified with him sometimes and thenyou think like, yeah, like maybe
he manages his closes a lot,but like he's still he's still showers and
he's still you know, gets nakedfor normal people reasons and then he puts
the tie back on and he's like, yep, today I'm also a revel

(53:22):
and he listens again. It's justthere's such a like posiard nature to it
when you realize, like, oh, every day with this look that I
love about him, Like there's justlike an implied insecurity with that that,
especially on this show, that it'sjust fun to think about. With the
character, it's very like high schoolgoth we're in, like I put effort

(53:44):
into looking like this, to looklooking like I don't care, yeah,
exactly. And he's really charming.He's Australian. No, the actor is
Welsh Welsh, so it's a Welshaccent. It's no as a British accent,
is it. He's so calm.I mean, he could be mad,
but he said love like eight timesand he'd be like, oh,
is that what you're really doing overthat love? And it's just like calming,

(54:07):
thank you. I'm really dead.I can't do his accent for shit,
And like I've costplayed him and likegiven it a shot, and I'm
like, you know what, maybemy constantine silent. Maybe he's been magic
into being silent brooding in the corner. I will say he's got one of

(54:27):
my favorite lines in this episode wherehe's like he's he and Nora are planning
the plan against Neuron and Norah's beinglike mine, way, I'm made by
neroon and he's just like you're allright, love, and she's like yeah,
yeah, I'm fine and I'm sober, and he takes it like yep,
perfect love you love you so much. Yeah, that is great.
He has so many great lines.I mean, like I've said this in

(54:49):
other episodes where we've had him on, where I'm still shocked that he was
on the show at all, andthen he stayed for as long as he
does or at all, Like ifhe just appeared three times in season three,
that would have been enough, yes, but he stays on the show
for so long, and he's it'sjust like, you're too cool to be
hanging out with these nerves. Yeah, Like I think too, Like there's

(55:09):
something interesting where like I have Ihave heard from from reliable sources that he's
a very like studied and methodical actor, like he like you know, the
quote unquote does the work, whereaslike sometimes other actors have to have different
approaches. I'm not a fucking actor. I don't care, but like he
treats he apparently treated everything like itwas Shakespeare, like it was the most

(55:32):
important script he's ever had. AndI love that for him, that he's
just like, yeah, this show, this is the one where I really
want to sink my teeth in.Then that that's just awesome. Yeah,
I mean I've I've heard from otherother sources too that like he also just
really loves the character. Yeah,well he'll because he'll play him in anything.
Yeah, he's you know, he'splayed him in his original show,

(55:52):
a couple episodes of Arrow. Youknow, he then comes back for this
ridiculousness for as long as he does. And then when they write Constantine off,
Matt Ryan comes back to the totallydifferent character, maybe with the agreement
that he could be Welsh. Butmeanwhile, in animation, he's doing Justice
League Action, He's doing like twoor three Constantine movies. It's a Justice
League Dark. He shows up inHarley Quinn is Constantine Like it's almost like

(56:14):
it like I'm gonna own this fuckingcharacter, you know. Yeah, and
he's so good. So if Ihad the abortinity, I would just cast
him. Like they're talking about doinganother Keyana Reeves Constine, I'm like,
no, just right, And Ilove that movie, but I would so
prefer like real Dark Matt Ryan.Yeah, I love that movie too.
It's just not Constantine. Is It'sjust not Yeah, it's it's kind of
in name only. But there's somecool shit in that movie. But we

(56:36):
should do an episode where we watchedthat movie and talk about it. Down
for it, down for it withnext Halloween. He's a demon, he's
a demon hunter, right, buthe's this character, but and take the
evil out of her. Probably Ihaven't watched it in like twenty years,
Constantine, because I watched that one. He's got a Holy He's got a
holy shotgun that's like a big crossand it's gold and he's just like blown

(56:58):
away demons. I'm part, isn'tit? Yeah? Okay, Rachel Weiss,
isn't it? Yeah? I said, that's why I watched it,
to be honest. Yes, theperson who've seen The Mummy a thousand times,
Yeah, my sexuality is the castof the Mummy. Yeah, but
so this Canstine nor stuff like.I really like it, like I said,

(57:20):
because they have that not shared trauma, but they understand each other's trauma.
And also because like the episode startsout with Constantine being like, you
can't do magic, you can't giveinto the darkness, blah blah blah.
Neuron is going to get you.And then like by the end they're formulating
a plot to trick Neuron into youknow, leaving does his body and dying

(57:40):
out in the world, you know, which I just I liked that arc
over the course of the episode,which does and does not work. But
we'll get to that at the end. About how about poor old Zari having
trouble with with a text. HThis was the comedy part of the episode.
Like the rest of the episode forthe show pretty serious, right,

(58:02):
Like there's a lot of darkness.There's a lot of demon stuff. There's
you know, nor ends, I'mgonna comb emotion. Yeah, So like
there's a lot of dark, saddishstuff happening, and then we've just got
we got to do other stuff withthese extra bits on the wave Rider.
Right, It's like we've got thesefour extra characters in this episode, so
we'll just stick them all together.And the plot point is going to be

(58:23):
Zori likes Nate and is trying totext him to ask him out on a
date but doesn't know what to do, which, first of all, I
love, but also I like thishas one of my favorite moments in the
show, like the whole series,not just the episode, which is when
they're talking in the I don't knowwhat they call it where they're in the

(58:45):
yeah, in the gallery where they'reeating. So Mona's trying to give her
advice, which Mona's trying to datea cope. I don't know if Mona
is the best person to give heradvice. Yeah, Nick also not the
best person to give her advice.Charlie probably the most qualified to give her
advice, but also not at all. So everyone's trying to give advice and
she just goes, what is thislegend's eye for the straight guy? And

(59:05):
Charlie dis goes, you're straight withthis like knowing look, and I think
like every queer woman who watches theshow was like, are you gonna do
something with that? Yeah, huhno, they're not gonna do something with
that. Every straightish guy watching theshow too, was pretty yeah that was
she is she is playing that sceneor that line for tumblr directly? Yeah?

(59:31):
Like that. I also think anyone'sgonna play that line for Tumbler directly,
it's gonna be amazing, like,you know, like she's the young
one on the on the cast,she's gonna you know, she's also the
queer one on the like one ofthe queer ones on the cast, Like
she's gonna be the one making thatjoke. And I also just love that
once she gets to play Charlie,it's just I've said before, it's so

(59:51):
much more relaxed and her hair isawesome, and yeah, yeah, it's
so weird. Yeah, it's weirdto see her as Amayah when when we
have Charlie Charlie for a couple ofseasons and then we go back and watch
the Ami episodes and I'm like,you're very good. This doesn't feel as
fun, Danna, if you knowthis, I'm sorry, but like this
show is really good at at losingcharacters but keeping actors around, so like

(01:00:13):
this is the second character that thisactor has played, and that that like
that happens a lot through the shows. Two other times, the best one
of course, being the two Zari's, which is like like Tala is not
even leaving, like not even likestopping playing one character and playing a new
character's playing the exact same person.Yeah, both exists at the same time.

(01:00:34):
Yeah, it's really fun. Anyway, what should Zari have texted me?
Exactly what she ends up texting himat the end that Charlie helps her
with. That Charlie does help herwith She's the only one that gives anything
close to normal advice. But Ido love Mick trying to help mix trying.
So yeah, Rebecca Silver coming throughhere. He's like, say it

(01:00:55):
with words. I I just wantto know what it said. Like all
we know is that it includes theword bulge. Yep, fabulous. I
would read a Becca Silver novel justto know. I so would read a
Rebecca Silver novel. Like there's alot of fictional books I want, but

(01:01:17):
that might be one of them.The fact that like we have like we
know, like fake Rebecca Silver dustcovers, but we don't have the contents
of the book. So sad,such a loss for the community. This
Castle. We'd get like a fakewritten book, you know at the end
of it, right, we gotwe got eight Castle books. When we

(01:01:38):
get no Rebecca sil did eight ofthe they did one season. There's no
way those sold. Interesting. Imay may not have read three of them.
Okay, the soul audience. Itwas just me. It was just
twenty five year old me reading fakemister Reynold. Real. Anyway, this
is all moot because does do asex wrecking ball? Yeah, sex wrecking

(01:02:04):
ball. Yeah. So she finallytexts him and then he gets hit by
a wrecking ball and turns into stealand his phone does not survive and he
did not back it up to thecloud. Yeah. This is like the
last year where you could get awaywith pretending like a character doesn't have cloud
backup, you know. Uh.You know what's funny is anytime I see

(01:02:24):
Nate steal up and we haven't watchedthe episode yet. Is it's been so
long since I watched the episode wherehe gets his powers. Oh yeah,
me too. Yeah, it's liketwo two two two three, it's I
think two oh three. Okay,but we'll get there. So there's there's
one more relationship to talk about,and that is Constantina. Yeah. Yeah,

(01:02:50):
Deanna. Have you seen this characterbefore? I'm guessing not. I
don't know, Desmond, No,but he did a great job playing a
villain really yeah. Oh he's areally good yeah. Yeah, he was
kind of seductive The one thing Ididn't like was when he referred to himself
as Papa. It made me cringe, which was like Papa's home. I
was like, you're cool, butnot crazy about this. Yeah, yeah,

(01:03:15):
no, he A'm gonna make herwatch Lessons of too Miami out.
It's some don't worry. Yeah,okay, So like we've only really spent
time with him as a human beforethis, and then we know now that
he is the demon. But yeah, and I forgive me, I don't
know the actor's name. I've neverseen him in anything else, but he
strikes that right tone you want foran actor in this type of like a

(01:03:37):
villain in this type of show,you know, where it's just like,
yeah, I'm having a you've gotme in jail, but please like I'm
having a great time here, youknow, but I will fuck with you
to get myself out of this.Fun I think he'd choose the scene to
read the exact rite amount. That'swhat I mean. It's he's really really
fun. Yeah, it's almost likehe was cast as I assume he was

(01:03:58):
cast as a l and then toldlike, okay, so the first two
episodes you actually be actually just beatlike the cutest, most wonderful boy in
all the world. But then you'regonna beat this weird, holy faced villain.
Yeah. So we've talked about Deza little bit on Hello Dolly or
hell No Dolly. Sorry not HelloDolly, Hell No Dolly, because that
was when we found out what waslike Constantine's damage this whole season, right,

(01:04:24):
so, you know, we hadfound out that this he was trying
to defeat this new this you know, demon Neuron. He fell in love
with this guy in New Orleans whois a descendant of Murray Lavaux, and
then he like banished Nearon to Hell, but Nearon had like attached himself to
des so it sucked as into Helltoo, and it's it's heartbreaking and so

(01:04:47):
good, and then that ends upbeing like a thing that Constantine keeps trying
to fix the whole season, tothe point where he breaks time for an
episode and it's so good, butit's and it's also the first of two
times where a gay kiss saves theworld. Yeah five, second time,
second time, second times. Thesecond time is the wedding, Oh sure,

(01:05:09):
yep, because like once they finallylike kiss, then all the aliens
get destroyed for some reason. Yep. So it's it's already been set up
to be so sad and you're likelooking forward to this reunion and Constant and
Nora get you know, getting heron out of Desmond, and then he's
so made understandably. Oh it's totallyunderstand really not it's it's it's heartbreaking as

(01:05:34):
if you were who has seen thoseother episodes. Sorry Dianna, but but
it makes it makes total sense.And also is just one of those like
he's John Constantine, we can't lethim be happy. Yeah, and you
know they double down on that inthe future. Yeah. But yeah,
so it's like it's so sad,but it's also I like that we got
an ending, right, like likethey don't kill him. Yes, yep,

(01:05:58):
it is an understandable ending. Yeah, and like they I suppose they
could have gotten gone back to itif they wanted to, but it's pretty
definitive here. Yeah, and andvery good. I think it's very true
to the characters and as much aswe know Desmond, and it's just it
works. It's sad, but it'sConstantine sad, so it's it's correct sad.

(01:06:19):
And then at the end of theday, it turns out Ray is
infected by Neuron and that's the ending, Yeah, because they think that they've
defeated Neuron. I guess at thispoint, right, because like so they
had started that whole ritual. Andthen Ray is an idiot and runs in
and tries to save Nora she didn'tmeet saving and kind of cheat those yeah

(01:06:39):
in order. Like the reason thatNora's in a coma isn't just because she
got hit. It's also because shelike released all of the energy like in
her or whatever, like all themagical all the magical energy, and like
then she gets hit and she getsknocked into a coma, and of course,
as we find out in a laterepisode, is the only one that
knows that Neuron is in Ray,right, And then we I do like

(01:07:00):
how we learn that he's near onLike I like the call back to the
the dog barking at him, eventhough dogs usually like me and the like
whistling popos the weasel, which isjust Yeah, while our children's songs so
creepy, it is it is toolike we did we talked about how dark
it is in the beginning or whateverfor the show, but it's it's very

(01:07:24):
Neil Game and Sandman when we firstsee Neuron going to his motel room,
and we're just walking by this hoteland clearly just like the presence of him
has infected people and everyone's you know, beating each other up and cars are
run fire and smashing through whatever thehell is going on. But like it's
kind of chaos as he's doing that, and it's just it. I think.
I think that's all cool. Ithink it's a nice little creepy,

(01:07:46):
creepy tell at the end of theepisode. I agree. So the question,
of course we brought on someone whodoesn't really watch the show, how
do you like it? No Fresh? No Fresh? Are Well? I
liked it too, because it wasit's out of order, you can follow
it, you know what I mean. Maybe I don't know all the characters,
but there was an underlying, youknow, kind of love and camaraderie

(01:08:10):
that you could feel through all thecharacters. Like I loved them trying to
help what's her name with the texting? Yeah, I thought that was so
funny. It was so cute.It's like very you know, this stuff
we would do in high school,like how do you how do you tell
someone you like them? And Idid, like when Mick said love is
love because to me that was acoded ally ship. Well, Nick has

(01:08:31):
no problem with the a's oh okay, okay, yeah, but it just
it was nice to see Charlie wasgorgeous. I shipped her with everybody.
I shipped her with Nora and Zariand every woman. Can Charlie's just date
everyone? She becomes very important inthe next season, which I love.
She already seems important, only notas much as she becomes. Okay,

(01:08:53):
yeah, I'd say solid nine outof ten. Girl like not especially you
know, not knowing the plot thatThe one thing is like the episodes that
you've seen have largely been ones youcan follow without needing to know the rest
of the plot. But there areepisodes, especially like season one and two,
and like later in the later seasonslike the second or like the last

(01:09:15):
four episodes of every season are alwayslike a lot more serialized than the rest
of the season. So like onceonce it's in ray and it's fully like
after the like not the next episodebut the one after that, once raised
their villain, like once you've identifiedthe villain, and like you're you're in
the end game for the last threeepisodes, then it becomes like, you
need to know what's going on tothe follow them. I did. We

(01:09:40):
were in a random conversation because oflike a TikTok video a couple like last
week or something, and I didshow her the swan Thong scene where they
actually fight to the song. AndI was like, I can't show you
the episode because it will make nosense. It's complete waste of time for
you. But this is cute,this is hilarious, so we wants this
fi I enjoyed that, So maybeI'll make you watch the whole show.

(01:10:02):
But but we'll see, all right. So, so a moment of truth,
and I'm gonna ask. I'm gonnaask both of you, but I'm
gonna ask Tricia first. Since thisis your favorite episode, what is your
legendary moment from my favorite episode ofLegends? You're straight, like, throw
out all of the heartfelt, wonderfulmoments. I love it. We're here,

(01:10:24):
Sarah Charlie asking sorry if she's straight? Hands down, my favorite part
of the whole fair enough. Personally, mine was Sarah and Avra designed to
mess around as old ladies for alittle bit, jump them back into that
fifty year warrant, you know,so for my legendary moment I had to

(01:10:45):
I was I couldn't pick between thegay Narnia joke because they came out of
the closet and the I don't wantother women, I just want you because
that part it was it was sosweet. The first time I watched it,
I did cry and I was like, oh, yeah, I do
this to my girlfriend all the timeand she's always like, Babe, come
on, it's you. Stop.So the next part, of course,

(01:11:09):
is MVL or a most Valuable Legend, Matt, why don't you go first
on this one? Sarah Lance.Sarah Lance goes to purgatory, a purgatory,
she's not like you know whatever,mystically welcome in and and kind of
makes it about herself and and andsaves the woman she loves, like Sarah
Lance hands down. So I actuallyput again, I feel like I'm failing

(01:11:30):
a test, like I loved There'sno the ikea. I put Norah's her
fight in the end. I reallyloved it, and it kind of reminds
me of So. I don't knowif you guys have ever seen Supernatural.
First the five seasons that are theactual show and not the fever dream that
comes after gotcha. Yeah, no, I think I stopped after five seasons
too. But so that whole thedemon Neuron and Norah fighting her so I'm

(01:11:57):
looking at my notes to remember theirnames. Great, but I thought it
was just such a cool scene.And she literally almost died. I was
like, I can't not I getthat. Ava and Sarah also almost died
and it was very loving, butNora literally sacrificed herself for the greater good,
and I was kind of like,you can't not you can't not give

(01:12:18):
props to that. Yeah, SoI mean, I'm I'm also just like
bucking what everyone's expectations of me,because anyone who listens to this podcast or
you know, knows me, Iwould assume that I'm also going to pick
Sarah. No, but I alsopicked Nora just because in terms of like
doing the most, Nora is theone who finds Ava. She's the one

(01:12:41):
who figures out how to get intoNeroon's head. She's like helps Constantine and
try to like banish him or whatever, and then she's the one who actually
like you know, gets him togo away so that she can help Ray.
So I think Nora was the therewas the NBL for me. I'm
getting thrown all over the place.But but I agree with everything that said
here too. Let's play some cardsof the timeline. Let's do it.
Tricia, you you rocked in scenarioshere, so you read yours first.

(01:13:05):
My first one is the hot newattraction at hay World is blank, and
Sarah was shocked to find that Ava'spurgatory included blank. Alistair Crowley's the answer
is always out, Danna. We'resorry for all these these games that we're
playing. Always apologize to our guests. Thank you for joining us. Now

(01:13:27):
stay here captive for the next tenminutes when we say garbage to each other.
My scenario was if you find yourselfromantically infatuated with a fellow legend,
text them a blank to let themknow. All right, solutions slash people.
You've got more of these, yeah, I'll read mine off here.
I've got magic circles, whistling popGoes, the Weasel, megastores as is

(01:13:47):
section your quote unquote straight teammates,and Neuron scary as phase Uron does have
a scary as past. I havegermagic Park, Unicorn jousting ring, and
the word bulge. Let's talk bingohere, we definitely have constantine firehands.
Love to see it. They're nottechnically in the med bay, but they're

(01:14:10):
on the Medbay tables. I thinkit counts. You weren't yourself, Gary,
And Ray is like, are wecounting it? I'm an account Ray,
but not Gary? Okay, Iget that. And what are the
rules for c word? Because Idon't think we say the word clone ever,
but we certainly have a bunch ofavas hanging around it. Yes,

(01:14:30):
I don't think we need to saythe word clone. I do think that
most of the time when we encounterother EVAs, we do say the word
clone. I think it's the onlytime that we don't. But I do
think it counts. Okay, Sothe spirit of the law is not necessarily
the text. Yes, Yes,exactly cool. That's totally fine. And
with that, we've come to ourfinal faded episode of season one. I've

(01:14:53):
always hold on to DC's legs ofTomorrow, Yes, and instead I feel
pretty good about it. We don'thave to roll this time instead of our
next normal episode. So our nextlike actual episode of show we're gonna be
talking about is going to be ourquote unquote season one finale, which is
also going to be our season onefinale, so we will be watching and
talking about the season one finale legendary, even though we have not actually watched

(01:15:15):
all of the season one yet.It doesn't matter who cares. But before
that, and this is like fuckingpinch me as we're saying this, I
can't believe that this happened in ourfirst season. Seriously, what happened so
early? Yeah, and in twoweeks from now, in our very next
episode, we will be joined.We had a novice on this episode.

(01:15:38):
Thank you Tanna for joining us.A little bit less of a novice next
time, a little bit less,just a tiny bits be joined by the
one and only Ketta Shimizu. Thesound effects I'm gonna have to fucking add
here to sell how crazy this isair horns. Yeah, no, it's
it's crazy. It's it's insane thatwe were able to get her. We

(01:15:59):
were so grateful to get her duringthe writer strike and to be able we
actually do talk to her about thewriter strike in the episode and everything that's
going on there. It was surrealand awesome, and we have puppet right
to think. We have puppet rightto think. Yeah, this all leads
back to you Tony if you're listening, so all your fault and thank you.
But yeah, we had a lovelyconversation with her. I can't wait

(01:16:19):
for people to get to hear it. Yeah, it's it's a great episode
and and it's awesome that it's happening. Honestly, it's awesome. It is
happening so early. I hope weget a lot more listeners and they can
be with us for the rest ofthe show. But till then, yeah,
thank you so much for journing.Ye lovely to meet you. What
a weird first conversation to have,but this it is nice. Hey,

(01:16:42):
our first time. I really gotwedding the first so yeah, that's true.
I feel like we we all shouldyou know, we can do a
double date of a cocktail hour aday or something, hang out like real
people on Zoom. But yeah,till then, thank you all for listening,
fucking like you can't even wait tillnext time. It's going to be
amazing. But till then, pleaseremember do not cause podcasters. We're legends.

(01:17:05):
Always hold on To DC's Legends ofTomorrow is produced by Zach Moore as
part of the Always hold on Topodcast family. Listen to Zach's other great
podcasts wherever you're hearing this, andcheck out even more podcast action on the
always Hold on to Smallville Patreon page. You can find more Legends goodness on
social at Legends of Always, andfeel free to send us an email at
Legends of Always at gmail dot com, hashtag save a hot to clot and

(01:17:29):
rate and review us in app.Please do that, please, please please
you beautiful nerd, you thanks forlistening. Did you have a good time?

(01:17:53):
I did? That was really funAnd that is the stinger at the
end. It's giving a time

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