023: 2x01, Out of Time

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
So enough of this D and Dtalk off my character. Should we should
we get down to business, causeyou get serious and talk about Legends of
Tomorrow, you get serious and talkabout this very serious, very cool show.
Yeah, we have our guests.We have our time Master here,
like we're embarrassing ourselves at the moment. I'm from Houston and the future our
rip Hunter, who we once againwill have on and then jettison from from

(00:21):
the show. I forgot it happenedin this episode. Dude, it is
established canon on this series that youare a time masters. I don't know
what to shall together for a reason. Hello, and welcome to Always Hold

(00:55):
on to DC's Legends of Tomorrow.I almost got that title wrong already.
I am one of your co catsinstrition, and I your other go Captain
Matt Trix coming into season two hotand hammer slightly rusty even though we did.
We totally know what we're doing,and just to show off how professional
we've gotten, we've got our guesthere. Welcome back to the show,

(01:17):
Podfather, extraordinary producer and time MasterZach Moore. How are you, sir?
Hey, I'm happy to be therip Hunter of this podcast, as
has been established happiness. You've swungback around to happy in the last thirty
seconds. Yeah, great, cool. It just took the theme song to
really get you back into he yes, sir, I had to have you

(01:42):
back here for the start of seasontwo. A fucking baller of an episode.
Just yeah, and very as youput it when we were talking about
it, and very plotty, plotty, plotty as shit. This is a
very plotty dossier. We don't haveto go through it all necessarily, but
like I was, just like usuallyin our dossier we can break it up
into like what's like Mick and Rayup to or whatever, but this was

(02:07):
like and then they went here,and there's no way to do that,
to group this with anything else.No, there's it's a lot of they
went here, they went here,they did this, they did that,
and then this happened and they blewup so right right, and you can't
really this is a good point.This is them coming into their second season
pretty much on the tails of seasonone, because of course they were a

(02:27):
mid season replacement in season one basically, and then they come out just a
few months later with this and itwas just it felt like such a a
shot in the arm a breath offresh air or whatever, like who gives
you like that type of thing.When this episode came out, I'm like,
oh, good, like they're goingto change it up. But I
totally have faith that this show knowswhat it's doing. Did you guys feel
the same way? Yeah, definitely. I mean I can't remember exactly how

(02:51):
I was feeling when the second seasonstarted. I do know that, like
I liked the first season a lot, but it was definitely too long kind
of thing, like not even thatyou need to chop off episodes of the
but like that a couple in themiddle felt like we were dragging along trying
to get to a point, andthen we eventually got to the point.
You know, they had to docertain number of episodes, and then season
two starts, and this episode Ithink got us. It was a really
good way. We'll talk about itin a second, but it was a

(03:12):
really good way to is back intothe story and to like sort of reset
everything from like where we left offlast season to where we're starting here.
But I don't think I really feltlike this shit the show was changing until
another two or three episodes. Interesting, Okay, is Zach Moore? Did
you watch this live. I did. I did watch season two tomorrow,

(03:35):
at least most of it at thebeginning. Have you watched all of season
one live? Or like caught upover the summer and jumped in, or
like, where were you with?I had watched most of season one and
then caught up on the end,and then was hyped to see the Justice
Society of America. I had alsoheard that Reverse Flash and Malcolm Berlin and

(03:57):
Damian Dark were all going to betheir own legion of Doom. Like,
wow, this is good, thisis great. I can't wait to see
all these components in this season premiereof this show I'm watching, and I
got like one in a quarter ofthem. Yeah, I would agree with
I would agree with Youutrisha. Theit felt didn't feel like the show that
it would eventually become, and Iwould eventually just stop watching and not know

(04:20):
it became that, But you guystold me that it is. It's you
know, other than the Hawk peoplebeing gone, they're not talking Vandal Savage
stuff. It's all very like thesame kind of highjinks they were involved with
earlier and well in the first season, and so you know, behind the
scenes question for y'all, like,why did they just completely drop the cliffhanger

(04:44):
of the Just Society of America?And then I mean, obviously they're here,
but I feel like they're only herebecause they're like, oh, crap,
we set this up, We haveto deal with that, and then
we can move on to other things. Am I right? Am I wrong?
You're not wrong? But it's alsolike I feel like I don't think
they were ever really gonna hang outwith the Justice Society as much as like
you probably thought when you saw thelast episode of season one, Like I
remember season one ending and then writinga whole thing about our man, like

(05:11):
introducing you to this character because youneed to know about this character that just
popped up, and then like youliterally did not need to know. So
I was definitely like projecting what Ithought they were trying to do. But
the Justice Society gets a whole episodeand then that becomes the beginning of the
Fetch Quest for the rest of theseason, right right, So, like
the Justice Society by itself is inthis episode, but the Justice Society is

(05:34):
a thread throughout the season. It'slike it's a Mayas thread. It's you
know, you say, we geta member. Yeah, so you get
the you get this vixen, andthen you also like who ended up being
one of these great characters, andthen you also get episodes where you meet
other characters scattered throughout time and thatHenderson shows up as Obsidian and I remember

(05:59):
that and he does in fact,and I think that I don't know if
that was always the plan. Ihave no idea how much changed between the
end of season and one and thebeginning of season two. I know,
like the creative team changed a little. I know the creative direction change because
we talked to Ketto about that coexecutive producer of this season and then eventually
executive producer of the show, KetoShibu and then so we talked to her

(06:19):
about that, about how things werechanging over there and how she got the
opportunity to help, you know,direct this new this new direction the show
is taking. But I don't knowhow much actually changed in terms of like
what they had planned versus what theyexecuted. Yeah, just to speak to
that, I think a lot ofit is the fact that there there's a
there's a writer's room change here thatwere like Ketto takes over the writer's room

(06:43):
and they they know they've got thatthread, but also like suits guy was
probably expensive, Like I doubt thatit was, honestly, Zach, I
doubt they thought they'd get a seasontwo. I doubt that they had like
a firm plan on like this iswhat you know two oh one seene one,
this is what this is gonna be, because we've got our man here.
It was more like a let's promisesomething we can figure out how to

(07:06):
incorporate the JSA going forwards, becauselike, clearly they don't have our man
in this episode really, and thenwe just vaguely get that he came with
a warning not to go to nineteenthirty why you know all that? So
I think for me, it's notit doesn't feel like a going back on

(07:26):
that promise, though I do kindof get what you mean where it's like
if you watch the end of seasonone thinking like we're gonna hang out with
the jas or we're gonna get aJSA member on the thing, Like it's
not exactly what immediately happens. We'reback to legend shenanigans, but it's still
it felt cool to me. Yeah, yeah, I guess, I guess
thinking you see the n of seasonone and you expect the first seat of
season two to be like, allright, we're here and we're talking to
power Van and then we're gonna likedo our thing. But it said they

(07:49):
eventually wrap back around at the JSAat the very end of that you mentioned
it. But it's just like Icould help but think that. It's like
if I randomly, if I wasjust rolling a dice, just you know,
and picking a an episode number eightyseason number to watch these he really
does listen to the show, Wow, I would feel like I missed an
episode somewhere. Saying in between thesetwo is my point. I give what

(08:09):
you'd be. It's almost like duringthe whole the French court scene or whatever,
that you're almost expecting like our man'sgonna show up as one of the
cards and he's gonna help out.He's here now too, or whatever.
Yeah, I get you. Let'sjump in here. We're talking. If
you haven't figured it out already.Two oh one Out of Time aired October
thirteenth, twenty sixteen. What aWhat a heady Time to be Alive?

(08:31):
Story by Greg Burlante and Chris Fedik. Teleplay by Mark Guggenheim and Phil Klemmer,
directed by Dermott Down's ratings one pointeight two million, down just zero
point three point three million from Legendsthat the you know, season one finale,
So they held onto their crew.I mean there wasn't a lot of

(08:52):
time in between for people told herto forget about the show or not realized
I need to come back. SoI think they really benefited from that,
and the Erroverse at this point isdefinitely shaping up a lot more. You've
got Supermo, CBS Full Power.Yeah, this is this is Aero season
five, Yes, Aero season five, Flash three, and Supergirl two like

(09:15):
this same week or the week beforewhatever they this is yeah, this is
yeah, this is Supergirl season two. Because this is about halfway through all
this. This is when I stoppedwatching the Arrow Verse for various reasons on
a regular basis. It's funny becausethis is also when I stopped watching parts
of the Aero Verse that were exactlythe opposite from the parts of the aeroverse
that you stopped watching, So liketormright, So like at this point,

(09:41):
I'm not watching Arrow anymore. I'mnot I'm not really like I'm watching Flash,
but I'm definitely less like keeping upwith it a lot less. I
am absolutely watching Supergirl and I'm reallyexcited for it switch over to c W
from CBS. I really loved thefirst season, and honestly, I just
thought it got better in season two. Plus they promised me that someone was
gonna be gay, so and thenyou know, I'm so I'm watching those

(10:03):
two shows, and those are theonly two Legends and Supergirl are the only
ones that I'm one keeping up withat this point all the time, you
know, throughout the season and FlashI would like pop in and watch five
episodes that I've missed, and thenpop out for another like two months,
and then pop back in and watchall the episodes I'd miss. So you
know, you're very issuing SYNCD uphere, Tricia. Sorry, go ahead,
Sech's to say mentioning Supergirl, Uh, that's crazy, I think,

(10:26):
like in retrospect, Yeah, thiswas its first season on the c W
like that, that's such a majorshift of everything here to to to fold
them in yet obviously Barry had beenover there and they had did that little
crossover, but like to have itofficially part of the universe even though it
wasn't on the swing. Ruth yetlike people don't people won't understand how huge
that was watching this on Netflix orBlu Ray or whatever. Right, yeah,

(10:50):
exactly. The show moved to Vancouver, like it was a big,
a huge adjustment for that show,which is why they come out swinging with
like, all right, you're notsure about us, Well here's Superman.
Yeah right exactly, we're still enjoiningyou this day shower. Yeah exactly.
Yeah, that that show. Likein the I lost two major characters at
last, you know, Kat andit also lovest Malcolm Maxwell Lord, who

(11:11):
they had in the first season anddidn't do anything with because he needed to
leave because for reasons Twilight probably Idon't know. And then uh no,
it wasn't it wouldn't have still beengoing on Twilet ended in twenty twelve.
I was just making a joke becausehe was Carlisle. It's a really bad
joke. And I recently watched allthe Twilight movies, that's all he's He's

(11:31):
as bad in those as he isn'tsuper I was gonna say, did not
did not miss Maxwell Lord at all, but I missed sort of what having
Maxwell Lord on the show like givesme the opportunity to possibly have one day.
That's really all I've missed. Butyeah, so like there are big
shifts and Supergirl. They were promisinglike a big crossover this year, which
we got Invasion. Before that,we'd only had like single show crossovers.

(11:54):
So there was a lot going intothe season at the Earl Verse, which
is funny why this is when weall sort of stopped watching certain shows,
right, But we were all therefor Invasion. But we were all there
for Invasion. I mean I watchedInvasion for the Aero episode even though it
was one hundredth episode, and Ididn't really know what was going on in
half of way the Laurel was init. Laurel was in it, well
she was dead, but yeah,I was annoyed by how arrow it was

(12:15):
because I'm like, can we getback to this awesome alien movie I've been
watching please? But it was alsothe Arrow one hundredth episode. So yeah,
so this is an interesting time inthe Era Verse that I do think
is going to be sort of likelost in the annals of TV history,
right because there you don't experience itlike this when you're watching it on Netflix.
You know, Oh, I guessso, but there's gonna be some
big I hope fuck off. Tellall book about the arrow Verse. It's

(12:37):
something like like this. This willbe studied later, if not for its
content, for just like how thisall happened. I went on record how
Tom Welling turned them down and theyasked him to be end of every chapter.
We asked Tom again. We didn'teven get a response, not a
joke in this season of Supergirl.That would that the season two of Supergirl.

(12:58):
No, not season two. Seasonthree is Supergirl. They do refer
small Boat as being cannon too theuniverse. That's right, right, And
remember Clark's friend, Chloe's Sullivan anyway, she had a whole wall of weird
anyway, So we are talking aboutwho are one of legends though, let's
get back. Yes, let's rundown the team real quick. We've got
mostly OG's except for the dead onesor the ones that have flown the coop,

(13:18):
Rip, Sarah, ray Stein,Jack's Mick, Trisha. Why don't
you give us a reach? Iwill because I wrote it in my voice.
So at the end of last seasonwe killed all the time Masters who
we also sawed Vandal, but Rip'sfamily still died, which was a bummer.
Snark also died. That was alsosad, and also Laurel died,
but that was on a different show. So it matters, but it also
doesn't. It probably won't come up. Probably won't come up ever again,

(13:39):
don't worry about it. Also,the Hawk people are gone, as you
said, they've flown the coup,but they are not dead. They're just
hanging out somewhere being birds. That'sit. We start in with Star City
twenty sixteen and the introduction of thecutest legend in the whole world, Nick
Xano, running into Mayor Queen's office, already using legends in universe like this
all this. Obviously there's energy becausehe's like running, but just the idea

(14:03):
that like, oh surprise cameo.Here's fucking green Arrow and we're gonna talk
about this as dumb friends that areoff in the timeline like I just I
love again Arrow verse up and runningat this point exactly. Yeah, I
feel like somebody said, you knowwhat, the ratings aren't where we want
them. Let's have Oliver Queen bein this entire premiere and maybe that'll help.
I feel like that was a notesomewhere. Maybe I'm wrong, but

(14:26):
this does feel like a he dida day, but it was a solid
day. Yeah, it's spread outthrough the whole episode. He's not a
blinking you miss it. He's therefrom start to finish. And I remember
even back then, I was surprised. I'm like, oh, he's here.
They tricked you. He disappears afteract too, and then they go
find the Legends. Yeah, Iwas shocked that he was in it,
and it like started. I waslike, oh, Oliver is back.
Cool. I guess he's the mayor. Now, sure what's happening and why

(14:50):
is it happening this way? Canwe please get back to the legends.
It takes a while for us toactually get like reacquainted with the Legends.
Yeah, that's true. First,how do we feel about the introduction of
doctor Nate Haywood, deductive Historian.I was gonna say, first, we
get introduced to Nate, who asyou. I mean, he is cute,
especially early on when he's not theboring white man on the show so

(15:15):
much, but I love him alot in this episode and throughout this whole
season. He's like a really interestingperson to add a really interesting energy,
a really interesting background, and likejust like because he doesn't mention in this
episode, but he's also a hemophiliacand that becomes like a big part of
history at the beginning of the seasonand the reason why he ends up becoming
Steele altogether. And also like he'sjust fun and you could you would think

(15:37):
that introducing this character when you alreadyhave Ray is like kind of samesease in
some ways. But I like thathe's the history guy, so it's not
just like Gideon saying exposition or Raypompously blecturing you for some reason, or
someone happening to know something a littlebit about this, Like he's the guy

(15:58):
who knows all of it. AndI think his delivery of the exposition is
really good. I think that's agreat point. He's giving you some of
the like actual the character, thehistorical color of what's going on, Like
Gideon can give us facts and he'slike yeah, but also on top of
that that means this will never happenor whatever. Like it it's fun the
angles that he brings into it.Yeah, zactly did you Yeah? Did
you guys feel like obviously he becomesa whole, three dimensional, flesh out

(16:22):
character of relationships with everybody, Butdid you guys feel like, why who
is this? Why do we needthis person out? Like when they just
introduce a new character like this inthe first episode of the show, I
don't think they give us time.I think that's great point because he literally
like explodes into Oliver's office and dropsall his crap, and then he goes
into the office and then he likehe very quickly lays everything out because in
universe he's trying not to lose Oliver'sattention, and out of Universe, they're

(16:44):
trying not to lose our attention.But also they're not giving us time to
wonder who the hell he is,Like, oh, he knows something about
the legends, all right, I'minterested, I'm curious. And then all
the other stuff that happens just sortof like endears him to us a little
bit in certain ways. And thenbecause he's so instrumental in finding them,
great cool, I'm on board.There's almost there's almost a Mary Sue element

(17:07):
to him, where it's like he'sthe guy that comes in with all the
information. He knows that they arefriends, and he needs you, cranky
as Oliver queen, to come alongwith our stupid mission and like get me
on a submarine. And get medown to the wave Rider basically because I
can read a calendar and I sawthat a week after you came back,
Robin showed up. Yeah, ohgreat, awesome. Yeah, that's that's
perfect because that's that's the thing thatalways bothers me in everything. Right,

(17:30):
Oliver Queen comes back, it's bignews. It's headline news everywhere, and
also accompanying those headlines, arrow dudeshows up. True, But but to
Aero season one credit, like theyhave Oliver think that through and have the
fake I'm not the Great arrowdiggle isthing in like a very early episode,
so they at least try to addressthat, but point take it Batman begins

(17:51):
look it up, same problem,Like yeah, Batman in general anyway.
So yeah, I like how theyintroduce Nate. I like that they don't
really give us time to dislike him. I feel like they also a little
bit distracted us with Oliver being inthe episode, so it's like, oh,
weird as you okay continue. Andthere's also a feeling with all these

(18:14):
easter eggs that he's bringing in herethat like, oh, they have a
plan for where this season might go, like we see, we see you
know, sir, Raymond of thePalms. In Camelot, we see the
Waverider in Mesopotamia, like all thesethese these references in history where it's like,
oh cool to me, it feelslike a stick around the season.
We're going to Camelot later, youknow, it's gonna be a fun time.

(18:36):
Also, the I love the imageof the Waverider in Mesopotamia. There's
a famous piece of art from Nurembergin April of fifteen sixty one that depicts
basically some weird UFO. I've seenthis. It's all these like crazy ass
like they're very simple, they're veryfifteen fifteen hundred's looking. It's a wood

(19:02):
engraving of these UFOs. But ifyou think of it in context, it's
like, yeah, this is howpeople would interpret a UFO basically, like
a battle happened over Nuremberg and there'sthis this historical record of it in this
wood cutting. It's very cool.We should post it when this episode comes
out. Absolutely, we will dothat. Yeah, like I And really
it is the only one that wereally get other than New York Dney forty

(19:22):
two Camelot. Yeah, that's theonly one that we ever see, you
mean, right, Yeah, that'sonly one that really the one where he
was like, yeah, he sayslike there's some erratic text about like a
woman in white with a bowstaff andI'm like, well that could be from
anything, you know, Like sowhatever, But we never we never get
to Messopitania. Would have watched thatepisode, Yeah, definitely, absolutely would

(19:45):
have watched that episode, would havewatched the Egypt episode, what to watch
anything, But we do get thethreat suddenly that through Nate's through Nate's quantum
physicist friend, which who the fuckis that? Like, oh yeah,
they no idea, no no referenceto him, doll. Yeah. Reminded
me of Flash ninety, Zach,when when Tina McGee is like, yes,
my friend caught a hole gave methis information, Like, oh I

(20:08):
haven't. I haven't watched Flash ninetyin so long. You should. There's
there's like one or two references tobaffling DC characters where you're like, how
the fuck was that gonna work anyway? Gorilla Gorilla CROs that Zach and I
decided it was just a big dude. It was a gangster, Like,

(20:29):
there's no way this was a gorilla, right, big dude in the actually
that he was a big dude inthe Fedora. He was really still just
like a gorilla. Just he wasbasically basically the way Rafael dresses up and
turtle. But such a cool hookto me, Like the wave Writer got
nuked in nineteen forty two outside ofNew York, way earlier than anything like

(20:52):
that should have happened. Let's gofind out why fucking I'm back on board,
Like I've got no questions about whyNate is here. I want to
see them figure it out. Alsoquintessential Oliver Queen line where he's like,
well, if they there was anuclear explosion, they're not missing. They're
dead. They're dead, They're notmissing, doctor Hablo dramatic pause. Also
just very cool stuff like I loveseeing the wave Rider underwater here for it

(21:17):
like like like a Rex, youknow, Titanic or Lisuitania or something.
And Oliver Queen being very James Cameronand just being able to get down there
very quickly, just having access butthankfully life support. Still go and find
Gideon was able to keep making stacesand we hope we wake them up.
We bring him to our new galleyset, our new kitchen. Seven for

(21:37):
the wave Writer here and uh andjump into like the third teaser this episode
has, which is the Legends runningaround France. Yes, but before starts
many times this episode right, oneof my favorite like running gags on the
show is sort of like Mick beingput in a position to be responsible,
or like Mick is the only oneand he now needs to impart important information

(21:59):
to you or he needs to beone and in this case like in charge
of getting the team back together.It's like, who is the last person
that you would want to do that? It is definitely mcfrory And like the
fact that Rip leaves him on theship because he wouldn't survive whatever, and
but like in the middle of anatomic bomb explosion, like I knew you
didn't like me. It's also heis my favorite legend outside of Sarah,

(22:26):
who comes from Arrow. I kindof categories her differently, but like it's
like, who's your favorite Smavel gueststar? Not Christopher Reve like not Sarah,
and it's gonna be the Mick.He really is my favorite. Having
rewatch season one and now get intoseason two, he has such your favorite
Savel guest star, not Terry Hatchand that one episode that she's in on
that is came to Vancouver. Let'ssay that. Listen, listen, Oliver

(22:49):
Queen was in this office so longerthan Terry Hatcher wasn't small, but hey,
good on her for doing it.She didn't have to sit in that
videotape. She wore that wig onsome set in Desperate Housewives. That's like
Susan's house anyway. Oh that wasa Desperate Housewive knowledge. Oh yeah,

(23:10):
two or three seasons of despert Housewiveknowledge. Then it then it steep declined.
But yeah, France, I lovethis is one of those scenes that
like sticks in my memory of likeif you asked me about, like you
know, legend scenes that I justI vividly remember. It's this France eighteen
sixty seventh thing one hundred. Let'smake sure that the very gay king and
very gay Queen fucked tonight and makean air and of course they throw in

(23:36):
very gay Sarah Lance into the roomand it doesn't go well. I also
like that this episode is just likeSarah Lance seduces through history every single thing
she's in. She's women in fairness. They were happy to beat her rupt
not even there it was it wasit just me. I don't have no
idea where they film this, right, but but I feel I feel like
they did a good job of notshowing any modern stuff around. But in

(24:00):
some of the wider shots I couldsee, like the the electrical boxes on
the side of that house. Wasit just me? I didn't I believe
you? I absolutely believe you.Yeah. My note is there's some real
Firefly vibes to this opening semen,because we've got like period ish clothing and
space pistols and stuff, and I'mlike, yeah, okay, like totally

(24:22):
different circumstances, but this is howan action scene in Firefly often looks.
It's also very Quippi like. There'sa lot of equipping. There's a lot
of fast dialogue in the scene.They're just sort of getting through it,
right. This is just supposed tolike get us back in, reacquaint us
with the team, with the dynamic, and just like, you know,
have some fun. And also MegRip a total wet blanket for the entire
thing. Yeah, Rip gets hismoments in this episode and gets shipped on

(24:45):
a lot in this episode. Ripis like an asshole for the entire episode,
except for like five seconds like rightat the end, where he's not
until his Terry Hatcher messages, yeah, my dear legends. But it's also
uh interesting to me this scene becausethis is more or less the last time
we really deal with the idea oftime pirates or like nefarious like unknown faceless

(25:10):
time villains of some kind. Fromnow on, we get into you know,
various season long fetch quests where it'slike a massive villain and it is
you know, after this, it'syou know, Damian Dark and abarth On
and uh, you know, MalcolmMerlin. And then in season three we've
got that that villain, and seasonfour we've got that villain. And it's
never really like you're going through andstopping some smaller villain like time related villain

(25:34):
rather than like people displaced or somethinggoing wrong. Do you guys? Okay,
I'm gonna say yes and no.I love the show. That's why
I'm here. There is part ofme that's like, every once in a
while, it'd be fun to findlike another strandeditorshipwrecked time ship in the in

(25:55):
the temporal zone and jump into Shenanigagain like that, Like I do want
to know who's the guys were fromseason one of like surely there's some other
Time Lords floating around, right,maybe aren't as as you know, well
meaning as the legends. What doesthat mean? In some ways, I
agree that that that would have beenlike they established sort of this world in
the first season that essentially disappears oncethey kill the Time Masters, so like

(26:18):
Time Pirates, not that stuff basicallystop existing after this episode. But I
I like, so I agree thatthere's there's stuff that they left hanging in
the first season, but the waythat they structure the seasons going forward and
sort of like the larger implications thatthey get into and the larger like they
focus so much on character like throughthe rest of the seasons and how each
arc and each villain contributes to thecharacter. It's it's not like a firefly.

(26:42):
It's not like this massive conspiracy orthis massive thing that's going on in
the universe. It's individual villainous actorsthat don't necessarily all connect to each other,
even though we find them from connectingstories. You know, we do
get a little bit of that whenwe eventually find out about fixed points and
how those work in the last say, and like the Time Police in the

(27:03):
last season might be you know,the remnants of the Time Lords semesters,
but also whatever thing know what they'restealing from Arthur Darville wasn't Doctor Herzo exactly.
But I feel like there's a fantasyelement to Legends, like a almost

(27:25):
like it's pull it's a science fictionshow that's pulling more from fantasy storytelling than
it is from science fiction. ThatI really like that we wouldn't have had
if we had stuck with what Seasonone was doing with that sort of like
more rigid, hierarchical world building thatthey were doing versus what we get through
the rest of the series. Didyou miss the Hawks? Now? Are
you glad they're gone? I missedthe Hawks. I don't. I'm not

(27:47):
glad they're gone. Like it's notone of those like, oh, we
really should have gotten rid of them. It's more like I just don't miss
them. And I feel like that'sa running theme in Legends. We've talked
about how really how well they introducednew characters to the show to fill in
the role that is vacated by departingcharacters. So it's less like I feel
the absence of them and more thatlike they made some space. That's a

(28:11):
good point. I miss Kendra,I miss looking at Kendra. I have
a big old crush on Kendra.But the story was done, It's fine.
Well, would I would have totallytaken them popping up more like you
know, he yeah, that's trulyit, you know, like, well,
having just covered absolute justice on alwayson a Smallville, My god with

(28:33):
who with the writer Jeff John's Ohmy god, you're kidding. Yeah,
it's comic books and Jones, Yeah, my god, which I did not.
Everyone should check out that episode.I'm sorry, Jeff. In my
recollection. Jeff Johns was a footballplayer at Metropolis, you who would kill

(28:55):
people with his paralyzing touch. Yeah, I reckon. I remember that episode
someone else because I was on thatepisode. That makes much word sense.
But seeing the JAS station show upand knowing that the Hawk people are gone,
I'm like, wait a minute,it feels like it disconnects yet again.

(29:15):
Don't you worry about it? Don'tyou worry about it? Whatever,
They're back on the way right.Oh, before we leave France, just
the idea of Jack's diving into Martinto then become firestorm perfection. They also
follow up the transmutation of the nukein the previous one. Yeah, oh
yeah, I just like that there'sstill there. It's also a season opener.
We got a little more money toplay with. We're gonna have a

(29:37):
sub, We're gonna have stuff.The amount of action scenes and superheroics.
You know, you get Firestorm flyingaround, Adam doing his thing like they
like you said, Matt, Ithink they had. They took advantage of
it being a premiere. They reallyreally did. And also we got a
shout out Jacks for being the onewho realized that Sarah was warming up at
the Queen. Yes, yes,that playful dynamic, Like it's instantly back

(30:00):
and then they go right back tothe wave Rider and it's just like I
love them and daffy costumes on thebridge and like half of them are in
France costumes, you know, sixteenhundreds costumes, and of course you know
Ray is in the atom suit andthey're all ot a spaceship and I'm like,
fucking great, Like this is myshow. And we also like this
is where we sort of pick upon that nineteen forty two angle, right,
so like we haven't We're not innineteen forty two yet, Mick started

(30:22):
way further back than he was supposedto. He didn't follow the instructions of
Oliver's. Also, he's Nick Fry, so we didn't expect him to do
anything in order or in the orderwe like them him to do. But
I do like how they cut backand forth in between the stories of like
can you get on with it?Can we get to the part where you're
talking about what's what it's up withnineteen forty two? But yeah, this

(30:42):
is when we get back to that. It's like, you know, we
were told not to go to nineteenforty two. We don't know why we
It sounds like we probably should goto nineteen forty two. I'm really curious.
But also Sarah is after a particularperson in nineteen forty two. Yes,
she's teaching Gideon about revenge seemingly.Also again like showing off our new
library set, like this is howit season opener thing, but like let's

(31:04):
go to our new sets, sothat's a new set as well. Yeah,
okay, yes, they literally theyhad like the hallway, they have
like one or two rooms and thebridge. In season one, the brig
is new. They aren't signing later, is that right? No, the
brig has been around. The Briggoes through some changes and eventually we lose
the break in order to get thelab. Yeah, the break, Oh
gotcha. This reminds me of StarStrek the Next Generation in season two.

(31:26):
They may ten forward. People thinkwill be Goldberg was there the whole time.
No, she got added and yeahcool cool exactly though, Like now
we have we have money, let'slet's expand our our establishings a little bit
more. I need to watch youshould you'd like? I know I would.
Yeah, Zach has a great list. You've told me. I've had

(31:49):
a very entertainer. But anyway,it's like, let's get into the ship
log for a second, shall we. Yes, we've got Sarah and Ray
here, and like Ray comes inon Sarah looking at I like dark stuff
and doesn't quite see what he's doing, but he is suspicious of her already
and like thinks she's up to something, and like, you know, if
you ever need to talk to aboutsomething, then he knows about loss.

(32:13):
Yes, yeah, oh why happensomething happened to him in his past.
I can't remember exactly. He hasn'treally talked about it. I wish he'd
mention it. But yes, they'vegot that going on here, and then
like just just to talk about thisnow. I love the where this goes
here. Ray becomes a bit ofa tattle, like he spies on her.
When they go to the nineteen forties, Brando tells everybody that she's going

(32:38):
up to Dark and like he again, there's kind of especially early on here,
there's part of me that's like,yeah, he would be policing them
a little bit more because he's like, they don't have the Timemisters to report
to anymore, like it is,it is just them. I get him
trying to kind of fill that thatresponsibility role. And then he realizes that
he fucked up, and she saysa mean thing about you know you you

(33:00):
you're nothing without the suit. Basically, yeah, it's it's Cats America.
Yeah, and the Avengers, whichwhich made me think that truly made me
think that when Sarah confronted Damien Darkat the end, he would say,
I don't even know who you are. But this came out before and god
so early aventures. But they makeup later and it's very quick the way

(33:23):
it happens. But like, Itotally buy this, this friction between the
two of them this whole time,very similarly to the Iron Man mentioned of
like uh, you know him beingnothing without the suit rait, what are
you without that suit? Is thatin a couple of episodes, Ray does
lose the suit? Yes, yeah, so it does it just sort of
set up that and that journey,Yes, right after that counted, he

(33:46):
does. It does set up thatstory in that journey, you know,
a couple of episodes in advance.There is a lot of really good plot
structure in the early season. Itgoes through the I think this whole season
is really well structured, much betterstructured than season one, which is like
it it was bolstering as a fan, Like it was really nice to see
like the amount of care that wastaking with the season. But a lot

(34:07):
of stuff is set up in thisepisode, Like you said, Raymond,
the Palms is set up in thisepisode. Sarah's whole vendetta against Dark is
set up in this episode, youknow, and then Ray with the suit
and the journey that he goes onwith that over the first half of the
season is set up here, andit's it's cool and interesting. What I
really like about this not necessarily exchange, like this sort of thing with the

(34:28):
two of them over the course ofthis episode is with Sarah and Ray is
that I always like Ray's intentions whenhe does things that are borderline like should
he really be doing that? Isbecause like he's not following Sarah necessarily because
he's worried about what she's gonna do. It's more that he's worried about her
doing something rash and it affecting,like it killing her or something bad happening.

(34:52):
He knows enough about her at thispoint, even though they really hadn't
hung out before they ended up onthe wave righter together that he knows that
she's something's going on. She's goingto do something, you know, ill
advised. It's out of care right, Like he doesn't want her to cross
whatever line that would be crossing.He wants her to be okay. And
and there is also still I thinka little bit of that like, well

(35:14):
we have to be we have topolice each other now. Yeah, thing
very much so. Also in thisepisode, I really like the interaction between
Rip and Jack's where like it comesoff as as Rip is being a hard
ass on Jackson, like keeping himbehind from doing cool stuff because he's got
to change the flux facilitator on theon the Google thing or whatever, and

(35:37):
it's all about Rip being like,well, knowing I'm gonna leave the show,
so somebody here has to know howto keep this team fucking floating,
and like that's essentially what it is. And I think that's a very sweet
idea that he's like all of thesethings he's been asking him to do is
to teach him how to fix theship, teach him all about the ship,
and like get him ready to dothis himself. As like an in

(36:00):
story evolution of that character. Ilike it also as a way that they
honestly fix what's wrong with the showitself from like a character, character and
plot standpoint. It's like, soRip was very much like the the driving
point of the story last season,and that's over, So you know,

(36:24):
there is a question of, like, well, what does this what does
he do after, you know,when he couldn't save his family and he
killed the Time Masters and all that, so everything that every reason for him
being anywhere is gone. But there'salso a question of, like Rip was
kind of a crutch for a lotof this stuff, Like having Jax learn
how to fix the ship gives himsomething else that his character is doing on

(36:44):
the show. Yes, it makeshim important for a reason other than Firestorm.
It gives him knowledge that he didn'thave before. It gives him like
this, this role, and itshows how smart he really is because he
does learn how to fix this futuristictechnology. But then like we also give
Sarah a new role on the shiplater in the season, and we give
you know, all these people fitinto different positions and they sort of fill

(37:05):
in what Rip was doing. SoI think pulling him out gave a lot
of people a chance to grow,give a lot of characters a chance to
grow. It gave them again,It gave them space, It gave them
something to do with everybody that wasn'tlike this sort of like weekly cohesive team.
Might I might I make another StarTrek the lgy If I may,
that's two we'll see. You dohave to pay us every time you make

(37:29):
a Star Trek reference. But betweenseason one and two nixt Generation, right,
Didise Crosby want to go off anddo Lois and Clark the new interest
supermandom? Like? Right? Thatwas her goal? I believe when she
left the show, that opened upspace for Michael Doran Wharf becomes security chief.
They take they take LaVar Burton,George LaForge to make him the chief
engineer, which is a role theyhadn't fulfilled. They give us a spot

(37:51):
for what Wheaton and Wilsey crusher upfront, Like everybody just shuffled all around
and all just settled perfectly, andjust it's amazing how you just shuffle around
some characters and then those become theicon roles that everybody thinks of Star Trek
Act generation. They're already doing thething that started in the second season,
much like Legends, Like, Idon't think anyone like you guys who are
like the super Legends fans, youdon't think of You don't close your eyes
and think of Rip Hunter in thecenter seat there you can, Sarah,

(38:12):
Yeah, right, very much.So it's it's such an interesting thing.
And I also think it's interesting fromlike as someone who considers themselves a writer.
There's a lot of like cool whatifs that you play. So it's
like, you know, well,what if we did this, what is
sort of the natural progression of events? What if we take what if Rip
doesn't exist anymore? What if wekill off Rip immediately? What has to
happen on the ship, And like, this is what we figure out,

(38:34):
This is where we get and thenbecause everybody's in these positions now, we
can ask ourselves new questions, like, so this happens, RIP would react
this way and the show would gothis way if Rip Rip is still in
charge. Now that Sarah's in charge, how does how does it go?
You know, who's making different decisions? What are they caring about? What
is important to them? What thingsare they going to let slide now that
they don't have the time masters runningafter them? And you know all of

(38:57):
that. So I think there's justreally cool what if converse stations you can
have? This is basically the lasttime Mi's gonna get yelled at for stealing
anything while we're packing time. Imean, he gets like chided, but
like, yeah, definitely, canyou steal some Yeah exactly? But too
much time in the Wave Rider,guys, Let's go to New York nineteen
forty two. Not too much timein the wave Rider. Always always funny

(39:22):
to see, uh, some littlesuburb of Vancouver trying to double for New
York. The docks is always agood bet, though. The docs is
always a good move. That farover there up the Hudson It don't don't
worry, you haven't been there.But it's cool. You know, Sarah
and Ray break off to go doDamien dark stuff as discussed, but everybody

(39:42):
else gets to go to a partyat Columbia and meet a very caddy.
I have so much Einstein to talkwith you about in a minute. Okay
though, okay, Well, firstoff, how do we feel about the
German soldiers and their exquisites stitching ontheir How dare they have exquisite stitching?
It's just it's right. Media thatwas bizarre to me, Like it's a

(40:07):
Rip is almost this is the scenewhere Rip is allowed to be cool and
he's almost got like a bond thinggoing where he's graving the glasses champagne as
the gun to going off, andI'm like with that, with that exquisite
stitching line, I'm like, oh, you're Roger Moore Bond. I understand,
you know, I know exactly whichbond you are right now. That
was just that was funny to me. What a weird way to give away

(40:30):
that these are the Germans, right, Like they also look really shifty.
Maybe that's the right. They're theones that are sitting there all like huddled
together and looking around constantly. Yeah, how do we feel about our Albert
Einstein actor. He's fine, it'sEinstein. They all do the same caricature
of einstein't I mean, it's noOppenheibert. But it's fine. I kind
of is the guy from Show Methe Difference, and they all do.

(40:54):
They're all working off the same tape. Yeah, yes, exactly the exact
same character of Einstein. Everything yousee where someone's playing Einstein, although they
did do a lot more truth andadvertising I think with Einstein here. Hmmm,
yeah, he's less yes, yes, very true. Thoughts on that,

(41:15):
I mean, I have plenty ofthoughts about Einstein. First of all,
Yes, he was this kind ofguy. He was notoriously unable to
stay faithful to any woman at all. Ever, Wow, he had a
lot of affairs. He had alot of illegitimate children, at least a
few illegitimate children. Illegitimate children andthe way. So he introduces this idea

(41:40):
of like at some point they askedhim about his wife because they find out
that his wife is actually the personthat the Germans are after, and he's
like, well, which one theone who died, the one who divorced
me. What's interesting is the onewho died is his second wife, So
the one who divorced him is theone we're talking about. That's his first
wife. They were married in nineteenoh three and divorced by nineteen oh nine.

(42:05):
And she she is referenced by nameMalayameric. They actually met in school,
so she was the only woman thatwas in his class. So she
also took Wow, she also learnedphysics like she was a physicist. She
was a scientist, She knew alot of the stuff. There's a lot
of like contention of whether or notor how much she really influenced Seinstein and
how much she really worked with him, Like it most likely wasn't this much,

(42:30):
but there is I guess some evidencethat she assisted in his early work
that then led to what became likehis revolutionizing physics. So he definitely didn't
do it by himself, Like hehad help, and he had help from
a woman, And he had helpfrom this woman in particular, which I
just think is very cool because youknow, there weren't a lot of women
in the sciences in nineteen thirties,nineteen forties. And she would die after

(42:54):
this episode six years later at theage of seventy one. Wow, wow,
Wow, that's crazy. Also likethe perfect type of history thing for
legends to pull out. Yeah,and it's like, this is what you
get with the writer's room full ofsmart people that have those little nuggets of
information and you can craft a storyinto this. That's very cool. What's

(43:15):
funny is that they don't talk abouthis second wife, the one who died,
even though she's also wild. Ijust need to include this as my
own little history nugget. She washis cousin on both sides. Oh,
their moms were to the family treeright now. What? Oh, their

(43:35):
moms were sisters, so they werefirst cousins on their maternal side, but
they were also second cousins on theirpaternal side. Oh wow, So their
fathers were first cousins. They weresecond cousins on their father's side, and
they were first cousins on their mom'sside. It's the most incestuous relationship I
think possible outside of actual incest.And that's his second go at, Mary,

(44:00):
that's his second go at marriage.Her maiden name is Einstein. Wo.
That's that's how you know you've crossedthe lad And she had been married
previously and had children from a previousmarriage. Okay, how did she wow?
Uh sure, let me look thatup because I don't actually remember so
comparatively, Rudy Rudy Giuliani looked likefar away from the trade. Yeah,

(44:21):
like a couple. Rudy Giuliani wasa couple of uh yeah, a couple
of generations off from being the weirdestone. Yeah, married a stranger.
Wow. She died in nineteen thirtysix, so she died about six years
before this episode would have aired.And she died, but that's ten years
before the Nazi should have gotten abomb. Thank you, thank you.

(44:44):
She died of some kind of illness. She got sick and died, and
then he Einstein like threw himself intohis work and distracted himself in the fact
that his wife slash cousin slash othercousin was dying. It was just it's
a tree. That's that's a tougheral in so many ways. It's a
small funeral at least because on thebridergroom side. Gross gross gross gross.

(45:10):
Look, you don't have to payfor that many people at your wedding.
Go back to the same people.Okay, hey, guys, there's a
Siegi Nazi sup in the harbor.You see it. It's really cool.
Hey, Legends untouchable, Yes,coming straight from the matinee of guys and
dolls, but he made it andeasier. He's still, you know,

(45:31):
shaking some dice around and singing Luckya Lady. Now, now this is
obviously beyond this episode, but Iwill say I like Damien Dark on Legends
so much more than Arrow. Itis a show that matches his energy.
Yes, he was. He wasfantastic, like like Neil be Done and
it is fantastic, And I likeDamian Dark but he was so out of

(45:52):
place. Yeah, and that storyis so bad on ear of season four.
I'm glad they found a spot forhim. Yeah. Here His approach
to the card sorry sorry, hisapproach to the character borderline like borders arcs
like, it's definitely big and scenerychewing and like would be too much honestly
for Arrow's tone. It is toomuch like he comes off as a caricature

(46:13):
on Arrow, whereas on Legends hejust gets weirder and more ridiculous. And
it works so well, like thisis a person show does. As the
show gets weirder, he gets weirder, and I think that's why it works
to bring him back so much likeyou start to get sick of him toward
the end of his tenure. Butthey do so much good stuff with him.

(46:34):
They do. They bring back somany things from his past. They
you know, bring in Nora andbring in all that that that gives you.
It's just it's such an interesting characterand it's an interesting way that they
keep doing him and also what itdoes for Sarah's character, like I'm always
gonna come back to that, right. It's also fun that, like,
you know, we had Vandled thefirst season, and obviously he was introduced
on Flash and Narrow, but butfor this show, whereas as has Tamian

(46:59):
dark Is is introduced on the Arrow. But then they went like, oh,
we actually have an immortal sociopath alreadyin our universe, Like we can
throw him into this show and it'sgonna work out fine. He's gonna meet
her in the nineteen forties and seeher moves and be like, oh,
lik of assassins. It's great.I do think that it does assume that

(47:19):
you watched Arrow last season, becausethey do not introduce you to this characteristic,
which if you've seen the ratings youprobably have. Yeah, but I
get what you made Yeah, it'sa calculated decision that they probably it was
absolutely a calculated risk, honestly,that they that people who were watching Legends
had been watching Arrow. I thinkit was a fairly you know, decent

(47:43):
consideration that if someone was watching Legends, they probably had watched Arrow through at
least part of last season. Theyprobably released up on what was going on.
You know, obviously we found outabout Laurel, and we knew Laurel
was killed by Damian Dark because ofthe episode of Legends. But you know,
there's just so much that they don'tintroduce, and in terms of his
character and his relationship to Sarah atthat it's it's a risk, but I

(48:05):
think it works well. You know, when you have time traveling heroes,
it is smart. It makes senseto have an immortal villain. This is
a different flavor than Vandal Savage continuitypoints for them bringing back Raychal goul in
the first season, but that's theworst Ray shall Cool ever and I'm glad
they didn't revisit him the same waythey revisited it. That's a good point.
We've got him floating around. Hecould have wound up on the Legion

(48:27):
of Doom too. Forgot that theygo back. I even liked that episode
and the way that like Sarah implieslike kind of rescues herself by telling him
to send his other daughter. Alsothe way that that implies that Talia does
exist very offhanded lege gives you youngTalia even though she wasn't. That was
all happening at the same time.That's right because because when Arrow season five
is like I'm Talian, I'm like, whoa wait a minute, but we

(48:50):
knew because we'd watched Legend season one. He's out there. Yep. Meanwhile,
guys, it's fun, but thisfight goes very badly. Mick gets
head, the item, Sue getfucked up or you can't take the radiation
or whatever. It is not good. Always liked Ship. It's not really
good at this, Yeah, butthen it gets to my coolest like action

(49:12):
beat moments of this episode when theway when like it's the last real good
moment of Rip ever, I thinkpiloting the wave rider and the wave Rider
like pulls its wings in and justdives into the water to go after the
German U boat, and I'm like, oh, that's like all of this
is so very cold, all thisunderwater battle stuff. They definitely divided up

(49:32):
their cgi budget a little heavier forthe premiere. Oh. Absolutely, I
just want to go back to thefight really quick, because it's the second
ture. Oh, I'm sorry,that's fine. It's the second time that
we've seen something happening where there's abig fight going on and Sarah is doing
something she's not supposed to do inthis episode. So the first time is
in France and you know the sixteenhundreds where she's having sex with the with

(49:54):
the Queen while everybody else is fightingTime Bandits and the and this time she
is, you know, taking outa having a revenge fight with Damien and
not really paying attention to the factthat her team isn't doing as well as
and she should be helping, orshe should be retreating, or she should
be listening, but she's not becauseshe has this like single minded focus.

(50:15):
And I think that that's also areally important thing that they set up in
this episode, because you may wedon't get there this time, but we
get there in the next episode.Because she has to go from being this
person who's like only thinking about herselfand only thinking about what she wants and
what she's doing and having fun ordoing or having revenge or whatever to being
the captain by the end of thenext episode. And that's also a really

(50:36):
fascinating like turn to do. Butit still feels so natural. Agree,
it's it's fun to see her thelast little bits of the The selfish seems
seems wrong, but yeah, selfishside of her in paddle here it is
a kind of selfishness. But meanwhile, underwater wave Writer could hit Thank thank

(50:58):
god, the wave Writer could takeit. We time scatter. Everybody didn't
know. We learned a lot oftime words. Did we learn about time
quakes? We learned about time scattering? Well, he never experienced a time
quake before, to be fair,Oh my god, he time scattering,
which just seems an inefficient way todeal with this anymore. I don't think
it's ever going to come up.I can't say, like the wave Writer

(51:21):
has a jump ship. But havewe established the jump ship? Yes?
No, well, yes, wehave absolutely established the jumps. We haven't
established that if you need to,the wave Writer can just right out of
the time things that the time stuffthat they do and they never bring up
again, you know. I rewatchedthe season one finale before watching this because
I wanted to see how they connected. Yeah, that's why I was so

(51:44):
like, oh, this is differentthan what are your time questions in the
season one finalecifically the one about ifan object gets changed in the past,
it changes locationlocation exactly here we cotwere back, baby, that ever happened
again? No, no, ohthat's a shape. I don't look It's

(52:07):
like, okay, plot reason youdid that. But then to me,
you have you justify that by justcontinuing to do that in the future.
You just can't have that happen.Sure, just make that a stupid rule.
I'll expect then to never ever everdo it again. I'm like,
oh, come on. What insteadhappens is that they get rid of this
idea that nothing affects them in theTemple zone and instead it said nothing affects

(52:28):
their memories, but stuff gets affectedbecause like in the Elvis episode, is
gonna say, yeah, get trombonehero and the no palmade and you know
his rat's name is Josh Grubin andall that, so yep, we get
changed to oh what is it,Big Easy O's or whatever, like like
changes on the wave right, becauselike in this they're still doing the like

(52:49):
well, time is kind of likesome men and as an ard, yes,
and that's why we're not speaking German, whereas like later on and just
be like, oh yeah, wellgood, we'll be home for Beebo Day.
Wait a minute, you know rightexactly. Anyway, though, it
turns out the wave warder could takethe blast. Oliver Queen mysteriously disappears in

(53:12):
his submarine. He was kind oflike on the back and is like here,
he's gonna help you. Goodbye,trick me. But we go and
find everybody. We find the JurassicMan, We find Ray Palmer back in
Jurassic Times. I love that wecome back to this and we pay this
off because it's asine that this mandidn't like survive with dinosaurs. Okay,

(53:35):
this is visited. They get stranded, sorry, yeah, they get stranded
back here once and he's like,oh, I know where we're going.
Come see my cave. And he'slike, oh, it's so nice to
be back here. And they're alllike, how the fuck did you survive?
Oh my god, not a badlookod dinosaur for the cw A man.
We're gonna get our money's worth outof that dinosaur, don't you worry,

(53:59):
fire Storm is in eighteen hundreds orexcuedly eight hundreds England and doing like
tricks for like a mean king.Joffre would like to my magic mirrors and
yeah, I guess they've never donethe Firestorm. I was waiting. I
was like, they're gonna do thisto not get killed, right, but
then of course they get scut shirt. But anyway, right, that was

(54:19):
cute. I enjoyed that. Thatwas very cute. Yeah, and then
he's just like, no, I'mbored with you. We're gonna kill you.
And I just love Nate walking andlike, oh, I've never been
to a real medieval execution before.Nice Nate has like little bits and pieces
and everyone's like reunion moment that,like I think is very much supposed to
show you him interacting with the teamand being excited and sort of being like

(54:40):
the audience person who's like, I'veread about you and I have an actually
yeah he's us audience, Yeah,very much the audience, this new guy.
Yeah in Salem again, it's funnywatching this knowing that we do in
episode Zach and season four that isthe Salem witch trial. There. Yeah,
I didn't really want to come backhere, but he wasn't looking forward

(55:02):
to this, but here we are. But sorry, this is a great
one too, Like she immediately thinkshe's a bad guy and takes him out,
and it's like she always this violence, which always feels like, ah,
he's getting to know everybody. That'snice. And then Rip gives a
little hologram goodbye, and it's like, you know what, this season one

(55:24):
was tough for me, but actuallyyou guys fucking rock and later much my
dear legends, because they asked Gideon. They're like, hey, where'd you
go? Like, I don't know, I'll play his final message final And
then later we find out that helike changed Gideon's programming to make her like
them more and like all this otherstuff. Yes he did it motterly money.

(55:45):
Maybe I should have brought this uplast season. But you know,
this is a different Gideon from theflash that ever, they changed Gideon a
lot, so like, this isa different Gideon. Obviously, the original
Gideon is Eyobarthon's Giddion that's voiced byMarina Back taking a firefly, and then
this one is of course Amy LouisePempers And and then we get our third

(56:07):
Gideon in crisis on Earth X theEarth Ax Gideon is I cannot remember her
name unfortunately, but Queen, Idon't remember that. Yeah, is there?
So when they're on the Earth Xwave writer Oliver is talking to her
and it's his mom basically, I'msorry, did you mean to say the
writer? Yes, I'm sorry.Queen from Star Trek Voyager? Is that

(56:30):
who she is? She's a TVqueen? Oh she's not in first Contact?
No, No, Voyager has theboard Queen. It's it's Susanna Thompson.
Can you tell Zax here? We'retalking way to so much that you
have to you have to pay usthree times. Now you're talking to Star.
That's my third and final Star Trigger. You're allotted one. Anyway,
Guys, we have the team backtogether. But how are we going to
fix history? Is it gonna besome big brawl again the doctor? Is

(56:53):
it gonna be something? Actually,we're going to fix history through feminism.
And this is where I get torant again. So the whole idea is
the only way to save Einstein's exwife is by making people know who the
hell she is, because it's bymaking her like an asset that our government's
gonna watch and not gonna let her. Essentially, it's basically like, we

(57:16):
all know who Einstein is, butno one really knows his wife, and
by like mentioning her publicly, theymake Einstein talk about her publicly when he
goes to the Manhattan Project to workon the bomb, like it essentially,
like it's the thesis is that theGermans were able to steal her and honestly
decided to steal her because stealing Einsteinwas too obvious, so stealing his wife,

(57:37):
who actually knows all this stuff aswell, was much easier and much
more stealthy, and they were ableto get the bomb that way. So
by making her a public figure,making her known to the world, they
fix it, and they also fixthe injustice done to her in history by
like her being this background person thatnot really anybody knows about because everybody knows
about Einstein, they don't know aboutthe other one. And Martin's about this,

(57:58):
he says, you know, insteadof saying, well, you're done,
just another Einstein. It's gonna begood. Like one of the Einstein's,
this is I also wrote a thingabout this, but you can't find
it online anymore. A thing thathappens in this season, which I think
I don't know if it's a productof there being a woman at the head
of the writer's room or if it'sjust a product of them really thinking about
sort of the things that they cantalk about and the things that they they

(58:20):
enjoy. But for the first three, at least episodes of this season,
they go out of their way tosort of highlight women in like powerful roles.
So they do this thing with withEinstein's wife, they do the second
episode is the one where Stein realizesthat he's not really fit to be captain
and Sarah has a lot more ofthe skills, and he goes out of
his way to like relinquish power toa woman, and a queer woman at

(58:44):
that. And then in the thirdepisode, I think that's the Samurai episode,
uh as the Shogun episode. Yeah, so that's all about this woman
in this Japanese village who then hasto take the power and like defeat you
know, the villain of the episode, and it's not the male heroes that
we expected to be is actually herand they empower her and sort of step

(59:07):
back and let her do this.So it's a lot of like men stepping
back and acknowledging the powerful women intheir lives, which I really appreciated at
the time and continued to appreciate now. It's almost like there was a woman
that was running for president at thetime or something. Almost like there was
a woman running for president at thetime and who was definitely gonna win.
Right, Yeah, superlo Supergirl certainlythoughts they Supergirl had a female president.

(59:30):
Okay. Also, just to putthis in time, by the way,
I was talking to a friend ofthe show, Mother of the Puppets of
Tomorrow, Tawny Darbyshire, today andshe was mentioning that this was the first
episode that she was on set for. She was the Ray or the Ray,
the Adam suit technician, so shewas busy in this episode, and
she was saying, the doc sceneis the first day she was on set,

(59:52):
and she remembers vividly that Pokemon Gohad just happened. So Franz was
constantly wandering off and catching Pokemon andthey'd be like, we're shooting you know,
his magic mirror device. That's whyhe had it. Thank you.
I hope that was an inconfidence Tony. Thank you for that, Tim.
But I just loved the like I'mlike, oh right, that was one

(01:00:14):
hundred when this was Pokemon, goto that poll. Anyway, everything is
normal, the day is saved again. But oh J s a, Yes,
oh J s A, which wasvery intense, very upset. You
can tell that Mazie is still kindof like figuring out her American accent because

(01:00:35):
she's she's trying. She does agreat job. First lines are so archer
or like with just the Society ofAmerica. It's like, okay, wow,
welcome to the show. Yeah exactly, this was This was great though
to find a way to to includeVixen, who was such a popular character
one episode of a action animated show, and then, as I understand it

(01:00:58):
was just actress availability, they neveruse her again. So like, you
know what, we'll use your grandmafine, yep, an animated show too.
Who whose mythology we are going topill for for this show in season
three and use it for years tocome. And also but in the meantime,
sorry, And also the introduction ofthe Justice Society allows, first of
all, allows us to get toknow characters that a lot of modern comic

(01:01:20):
fans don't really get to know.I learned so much and then I watch
stuggle and I learned so much more. And then it also gives us so
sort of the moral quandary of Mazie'scharacter, which is the whole like she
has to go back and do this, and so good, she introduces so
much more complexity, let everything dieso that her granddaughter can go and be
what she's gonna It's so good,But till then, till then we've reached

(01:01:44):
the end of another rousing episode.We're in season two, guys, like,
let's go in season two and we'regoing to be leaving season two so
quickly. Yeah, we're sorry,Zach, but we're going to play some
games. Feel free to play alongwith us. Trisha, I'll ask you
first, though, what was yourlegendary moment. My legendary moment is absolutely
serious, aducing the Queen of France. Jack's also agrees with me. It's

(01:02:05):
funny, it's sticks in my brain. I love it, and herd like
giving him the little punch when hiseyes are all white like that, that's
very much in my brain. Mineis truly The seechy shot of the wave
wrider die like dive, pulling inits wings and going like well underwater time
and it's like there's just something coolto me about that. Zach Any thoughts.
You know, I gotta say Jaxjumping into Doctor Stein to become fire

(01:02:29):
Yeah, that was really good too. Another really fun moment absolutely m v
L Tricia. Mine is Nate.He's new, but he's valuable. He's
invaluable in this episode drives the wholeblood along and gets everyone back on the
ship. Without seasons, without nighthere, they would be tent. It
would be ten for me. Iforgot how good an episode this is from

(01:02:52):
Martin. And part of it isthat Jackson is like kept on the ship
by as we discussed and learning howto fix the wave Rider and all that.
But it it's fun to see Martinout in the field and get to
do cool stuff without turning into France, you know, like without having to
do the firestorm. Yeah, andit makes sense because it's Einstein, so
like, of course it's actually valuable. He opens mart Stein. Yes,

(01:03:16):
I'm doctor Martin Stein, and weare the Legends of Tomorrow in case you
didn't watch last season, yep.And they're gonna change every episode. They're
gonna change that out basically. Butit's it's a good time and m VLS
I'm gonna go with Mick, right. He tells all the stories everybody.
He shoots a Tyrannosaurus with a flamethrower. It's amazing. So he's mine all

(01:03:37):
right, cards to save the time. Oh my god, this is the
hardest thing to get back into warmedup. I've got two scenarios. Quote,
I knew we were in trouble whenRip made us put on blank and
quote. Two things are infidite theuniverse and blank Albert Einstein and I have
Nate Haywood colin blank, solution,slash people, time, scatter my dear

(01:04:03):
legends, fry some Nazis, anddeductive historically Nope, deductive historical reconstruction.
I have seduced the women of thevillage and Hansy, Albert Einstein and bingo
last one' zach we sweat to God. But this is gonna be a bit
of a surprise. We got alot of bingo here. We mixed steels,

(01:04:26):
Yes, we got mixed steels andaero ref We had those already.
But new to this card is shipbroken Speedster, Sarah, seduction and new
legend. And with that, forthe first episode of season two, the
listeners one Bingo uncontested. It istotally the listeners win. So we're only
just getting going on recording, soit might not be you know, the

(01:04:50):
next it might be like two orthree episodes from now, is what we're
saying. But we're gonna put upa poll. Tricia and I picked two
episodes each, so we're gonna putup a pole of these four episodes.
Whichever one wins, that will beI don't know, two oh three,
two A four, whatever whatever itwants up here exactly. Oh, let's
go. Well, you guys mentionedSpeedster we skip see E bar Thon at

(01:05:14):
the end of this episode. Oh, that's right, we did. We
kind of mentioned that they were theear You kind of brought it up.
But yes, absolutely that I waspromised to bar Thorn and the proper of
barred through. Yes, And thisis fun. This is awesome. Matt
Lesher ha, he's fantastic. Everybodyloved Tom Kevin on season one, but
like so much diminishing returns, althoughhe was great in Christ on Earth,
acts like it's like, look y'all, Matt Lesher is the first flash.
He's the property of art Thoron straightfrom the conflicts, and I love it,

(01:05:38):
like ironically this show used to youknow, was like, yeah,
you could be in two or threeepisodes, I guess, so so cool
to see him here with a lotof great stuff for him to come this
season, so shout out, yeah, absolutely, thank you for that.
All right, Uh, Tricia,are our top picks. Let's trade back
and forth. I did give usthe challenge of trying to pick from the
first three seasons because I think it'sreally easy for us, especially to pick

(01:06:00):
from the last four, because that'swhen this is the show really picks up
and gets really fun for us.But I don't want all of our bingo
choices to be from the later seasonswhere we know we're really gonna have a
good time. On challenge a littlebit. So first three seasons I liked
this a lot. One of mypicks abominations. Can you tell the listeners
what that one's about, just togive them an idea. Sorry, That
is the Civil War episode that ishandled way better than the show any right.

(01:06:27):
Incredible episode and has some fun Amayaand Nate and the tenth stuff too,
and also some fun stories with Yeawith a Maya and Jackson. Yep.
All right, So my first episodeI picked Helen Hunts, which is
the episode in which they go findHelen of Troy in the Golden Age of
Hollywood. Also includes one of myfavorites, Hettie Lamar and a nod to

(01:06:50):
a certain DC hero a very bigestablishing shot for the Aero Verse that will
never be again. Camelot three thousandalso season two where we pay off surveyment
of the poems. We do payoff, and we also get a couple
of appearances by Jesse jsa members Yesthat's true, and also Sarah and yeah,

(01:07:12):
Sarah Lancelot anyway, And my lastepisode is The Magnificent Eight, which
is the first episode in which wemeet Jonah Heckx and the Salvation Crew.
Yes, and becomes the start ofwhat becomes a healthy tradition of every once
in a while, we're going todress up in old Western stuff and go
into that and look way too.The introduction of h. G. Wells

(01:07:34):
into the Yeahs and Clark's own HG. Wells into the Wells in the it's
actual HG. Well there's a youngHG. Wells that they meet and realize,
oh ship, and then we knowyou're going to briefly reference it.
Yeah. They briefly reference it inthe last episode of season Yes in Legends.
Yeah, but with that it timeto roll. Am I rolling?

(01:07:59):
Or are you rolling? I don'tknow? Do you have your guys?
Go ahead, let's start start theseason off the episode Oh I forgot ye
doing fine? How you hey,Zach? Did you get to talk to
any really cool people that were involvedin the j s A recently? Yes?
I talked to Jeff Johns. Yes, he was gonna go pro it

(01:08:20):
met you, but that all thosemurders? Really did he kill people?
He killed? Honest? I don'tremember what this episode is very distinctly,
it's how good this happened to me? Yeah? Okay, anyway, Clark

(01:08:44):
Football, he's like a really he'slike a real jolly guy. He's got
the he's currently is. Anyway,do you talk to the other Jeff Johns?
Though? Right, the other JeffJohns the writer of Absolute Justice,
Booster and Legion on Smallville and literallymy favorite comic writer. Shout out to

(01:09:04):
John Lee Brody who connected us.We're all friends now and he's going to
be back if all things go.Groding plan in season ten to talk about
Booster, So that's gonna be alot of fun. We had a lot
of great insight from him talking aboutthe JSA, a lot of inspiration.
Star Girl, who we see Blinketymister in this episode, but she's in
more episodes. She's coming back,come Back, and Camelot vote Everybody.
She also sh her dead Body comesBack and Crisis of your Sisters. Literally

(01:09:29):
truly just to blow smoke up yourhouse. I've done like a lot more
podcast interviews with like you know,behind the scenes or whatever talent and stuff
than you have. I think thisis technically your second one. It's annoying
to me how good you were atit it to begin with, Oh,
like I like my early interviews Icannot fucking listen to and and like you

(01:09:50):
had Jeff and then Sam whitt SamWhitwer on last season, and they're both
excellent episodes. They both can bere listened to. And I'm like,
well, I guess I just getsall aspects of podcasting. I had the
journals, I had the immense uhnot pleasure, but event's luck of all

(01:10:10):
of my interviews then being transcribed intotext so you couldn't hear them, so
there was no hearing. Although definitelywhat's always funny is that when the interviews
that I'm most nervous for, Iwas always rushing so much like there were
four things going on and I hadto do the interview and I had to
get out of it. So likeI uh interviewed Rachel Scarston for Batwoman as

(01:10:31):
COVID was happening, as we wereall getting sent home, as all this
crazy stuff was happening, I hadto take my lunch break to go home
to eat lunch while interviewing her onthe phone, and then immediately go back
to my regular day job and continuedoing COVID step. It was the craziest
thing, but it meant that Icouldn't freak out. I couldn't get nervous.
So that's the key. You gottabe distracted with the other things.
I get super That's why I haven'ttried to pursue more of these, because

(01:10:54):
I get so nervous about doing them, because just have a death, just
have something when you yeah, thankyou. Tom Willy himself told me I
didn't look nervous when I talked tohim. Oh that's right, Oh you
talked to those I talked to himas well. I forgot about it,
So, Tricia, you were stillwrsh. You didn't get a chance to
ask her about birds of prey.I didn't get a chance to ask her
about birds of prey. I wasalso a little nervous to ask her about

(01:11:14):
birds of prey because I heard thatthat was not a good experience for her,
and that was not a good experienceto really bother with that one.
I was unaware of that, andI apologize. She's still friendly with like,
I think she looks back at itfondly now, But yes, that
was not a good time. Shewas young, she was eighteen, Yeah,
but also she was younger. Ithink she was like sixteen. Oh,
she might have been younger. Ithought she was eighteen. Young,

(01:11:36):
But like, she stayed in TVand has done a lot of really great
stuff. If you haven't watched LostGirl, I really recommend it. But
Rain's fun sometimes. Yeah. SoI didn't get a chance to ask her
about that, and there was somethingelse I want. Oh, but I
did have a chance to ask JessicaParker Kennedy about being on Small Belt.
So oh yeah, cool, you'rerolling for the episode so you'll never believe

(01:11:58):
it, But I've got the episode, got amazing. I have rolled our
first season already and it is seasonsix, season six. Okay, this
is becoming a tradition for us.And now we're gonna roll for the episode.
Okay, that is gonna be episodefourteen, which I'm not sure what
that one is. Uh literally secondto the end, there will be brood.

(01:12:19):
When Astra and Spooner find themselves asstow ways, they learn that Constantine
is still chasing the Fountain of Imperium, while Spooner discovers something about her past
that she was not expected. It'sa great Spooner episode. I don't remember
this very well at all. Isthe brood? Is this one Mick gives
birth? Yes? Yeah, Ithink so. Okay, I don't remember

(01:12:40):
this one at all, but let'sjump in. Yeah, it'll be a
great time we're gonna have. We'regonna go from this this season two episode
one, where they're just starting toget used to things, they're getting the
characters rolling. We're gonna go allthe way to the end of season six.
Maybe we can get some more audienceyep. And then yeah, end
of season six where they're like,we've got what we've got, Okay,
you know we're here. He's gonnagive birth out of his ear, it's

(01:13:02):
gonna be fine. What if theshow is more accessible? What a funk
off? Yeah, like this iswhat if we just mentioned a whole bunch
of characters you don't know yet.Yep. But with that, Zach,
thank you so much for jumping backinto the wave rider with us for this
one quick. Oh this has beengreat. I I really enjoy it.
I hope I can still come onevery season and rip unters talk on the

(01:13:25):
show. Absolutely, absolutely, wegot a pretty back for the next time
we see rip Hunter in the worldthat it's gonna be. Do you do
you have a favorite episode of Legend, Like, do you have something that
like when it comes up, it'slike, oh, we got to call
it these early episodes. Yeah,I mean, obviously there's the Star Trek
episode, but like the TV whichwas which which you guys talked about,

(01:13:46):
which was great, But I don'thave like, oh, guys, I
gotta be on this one. SoI'm just happy to to exist in this
world and it's it's it's it's it'sfun to just be a little bit on
more on the periphery of the stuffonce that is, so the weeds like
I am, and so much otherstuff. I talked about. So that
that's the fun with me, funfor me talking to you guys about it.
So what your call your discretion?Please cool? Well, we will

(01:14:08):
have a special guest star again inthe future. I'm sure your advoice will
be heard. Until then, Wherecan people find you online? Can they
find me at always Malville with ones on x or Facebook book? And
uh yeah, we're curly In seasonnine of the podcast proper, we are
going to finish our episode by episodecoverage of Smallville this calendar year. Game

(01:14:33):
Gang amazing. So well, we'llstill have more stuff to come and we'll
still have our Patreon Matt, whichyou and I have recently launched show.
Hey guys, remember Powerless, Noneither do we an excellent tagline that Matt
thought up. Yes, Matt cointhat just because people don't know what we're

(01:14:55):
talking about. In twenty seventeen,a show premiered on on NBC that was
Build. Yes, that was Buildas DC's first comedy. They put that
on the fucking poster and it's it'sabout Vanessa and Hudgens and Alan Tudic and
Danny Putty and Ron function Like.It's a great cast actually trapped in some

(01:15:16):
really bad scripts. They they allwork for Wayne Securities, and they're trying
to come up with the things tokeep normal people alive among the Superhero world
show. Well that's not the pilot, which the under pilot is its own
fucking thing. It's it's a bizarreshow. Just to give you a little

(01:15:38):
preview of what our first episode waslike, Zach, I cannot stop thinking
about your rewrite, which is,what if this was just in the Batman
sixty six world. You had thrownout Adam West narrates something in it,
and he will be in the showlater on, But you were like,
what if they just had made himBruce Wayne? And in my head,
I'm like, then all of thismakes sense, Like it all clicks into

(01:16:00):
place. It's all big and colorfuland stupid, which is exactly what I
want that world to still be.Oh man, it could have worked so
much better, but it would havejust been in short, twelve episodes and
they're in and out. Yep,no harm, no foul. It could
have been in today's world. Youget that. In today's world, yeah,
single up, single season streaming shows, you get that. But in
network dramas of twenty seventeen, youdo not get that. It made me

(01:16:24):
depress that oh shit, he's dead. We can't do this now, Like
obviously we got Bert Ward and Crisis. You know, they've done little things,
but I'm like, we missed theopportunity to have old Adam West Brusuayne
and that sucks. Yeah, yeah, anyway, check us out on Patreon,
so if you if you support theuh I always hold on the smellble

(01:16:45):
Patreon, you can hear them talkabout this forever. Yes, patreon dot
com slash always mauled with the oneas everybody. So, Tricia, do
you want to talk about Powerless withus? Sometimes? Happily I've never watched
the show, but I will watchan episode for you guys. Matt will
then mow you the two dollars tobuy whichever episode you wind up on this.
We'll talk about that offline. Cooltill then, everybody, thank you

(01:17:08):
for listening. Here we go seasontwo, but until then, do not
call us podcasters. We're legends.Always hold on To DC's Legends of Tomorrow
is produced by Zach Moore as partof the Always hold on To podcast family.
Listen to Zach's other great podcasts whereveryou're hearing this and check out even
more podcast action on the Always HoldOn to Smallville Patreon page. You can

(01:17:29):
find more Legends goodness on social atLegends of Always, and feel free to
send us an email at Legends ofAlways at gmail dot com, hashtag save
a hot to clot and rate andreview us in app. Please do that,
please, please please you beautiful nerdyou thanks for listening. We're legends

(01:18:01):
and we're angry about it. ThisJustice Society

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