February 28, 2024 • 45 mins
Pour one out for the death of a true Legend. Constantine makes one last play for magical greatness as we discuss his demise, Spooner’s mysterious origins, and many, many mushrooms.
CARDS TO SAVE THE TIMELINE
Scenarios:
• You traveled back in time and found out you came from ____ all along.
• Rerouting Gideon’s protocols with short circuit her ____ and leave the ship open to ____.
• In a surprise twist, it turns out ____ was actually _____ the whole time.
• You’ll get the most likes on Galaxipost with a photo of _______.
Solutions/People:
• John Constantine’s mushroom.
• Your mom from 1925!
• That thing where the fountain you’re looking for is actual mushrooms that are actually magical aliens.
• A negging Galixipost.
• A 1920s oil baron.
• Magic Mushrooms.
• Your daughter from the future.
BINGO
• Fire Hands
• Gideon Malfunction
• Meet Yourself
Follow us on socials @legendsofalways and send us an email at legendsofalways@gmail.com.
Matt Truex is a Warner Bros. Discovery employee. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are his own and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Warner Bros. Discovery.
CARDS TO SAVE THE TIMELINE
Scenarios:
• You traveled back in time and found out you came from ____ all along.
• Rerouting Gideon’s protocols with short circuit her ____ and leave the ship open to ____.
• In a surprise twist, it turns out ____ was actually _____ the whole time.
• You’ll get the most likes on Galaxipost with a photo of _______.
Solutions/People:
• John Constantine’s mushroom.
• Your mom from 1925!
• That thing where the fountain you’re looking for is actual mushrooms that are actually magical aliens.
• A negging Galixipost.
• A 1920s oil baron.
• Magic Mushrooms.
• Your daughter from the future.
BINGO
• Fire Hands
• Gideon Malfunction
• Meet Yourself
Follow us on socials @legendsofalways and send us an email at legendsofalways@gmail.com.
Matt Truex is a Warner Bros. Discovery employee. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are his own and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Warner Bros. Discovery.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
All right, Tricia, we gotsome reveals in this episode about the origins
of a certain food, a certaingarnish. If you had to point a
finger at another food, vegetable,plants, creature of some kind that would
have extraterrestrial origins. So what doyou think, what do you think is
(00:23):
the most likely candidate? Octopus?Oh, that makes sense. So many
tentacles also, like you know,yeah, yeah, yeah, and I
think it's an octopus monster in thatmovie Europa about about the monster. And
also that one episode of Legends TagumaAttacks Attacks, We'll know at the end
(00:44):
of this theme song to gum OToomo attacks. That was Yeah, that's
(01:08):
one of my faves because I thinkI've put it up for a poll in
the past two in season one.Yes, great episode. Anyway, we're
not talking about that today, butwe are going to welcome you to always
hold on to DC's Legends of Tomorrow. I'm your co captain Mattrox and I'm
your other co captain, Tricia Ennis, and we are We talked about this
off Mike today and I think thisis this is fair to share with the
(01:30):
audience. This is a this isa we have a lot to talk about
I'm sure we will have a fullpodcast today, but we're like, you
know, this could have been adoubled up episode, like maybe we could
have done the episode before this andthis one at the same time, because
they are a not official two parteravery much. So, I mean,
like Legends never really does part onepart two. But there are several instances
(01:53):
throughout the show where like an episodeleads like seamlessly into the next episode,
and you could watch them as onehour and a half long episode, right,
So I think this is an instanceof when we should have done that
if we had looked ahead and thoughtabout it a little more, but we
didn't, and so we will learnfor next time. So there will be
instances where we have double episodes justbecause the episodes, like our, especially
(02:14):
this one, starts in the middleof the action. Right. You had
a good example, and I forgetwhat it was, oh season one one
when they get end up back inthe fifties with the weird porcupine bird hawk
people aren't hawks with the meteorite withthat one because Sarah Ray and kendro A'll
get stranded in the nineteen fifties.So then the next episode is that continuation
(02:35):
of the story. Even though it'snot a two parter, it's thematically a
two parter, so I would probablydo those both at the same time.
So in the future, if weroll like the second episode of that,
we'll just cover the both of them. That said, I don't think we're
gonna short this episode at all.We have plenty to talk about. We're
talking six fourteen. There will beBrewed. Aired August twenty ninth, twenty
(02:59):
twenty one. Written by the greatRadio Tar Natchet, directed by who Mazie
Richardson Sellers. I don't think we'vedone one of her directed episodes yet.
No, did she direct when shewas on the show. She just come
back. I think she just cameback after it wasn't ended episodes. Mmmm.
A bit of a Dacovny there.Right. On ratings, we're in
the lowest rated season of the show. We're in negative numbers at this point.
(03:21):
Basically, No, we're in pointfour three million people. Holy shit,
that hurts. We are under fivehundred thousand people watching this live.
Yes, indeed, And I don'tthink I could technically say I was one
of them watching it live, butI was one of them watching it in
the live plus seven so I wasgonna say I'm there that week. Does
(03:43):
that count? Yeah, exactly.So we have a lot to recap because
we haven't done the episode before thiswhere a lot takes place. And also
this season is just chock full ofweirdness. There's a cat on my chair.
I'm trying to do the complicated partgame. That's not part of the
weirdness for anyone. That's fairly normalfor us. Got pregnant by alien tentacles.
He is no longer pregnant because Bishopcame on board the wave Rider with
(04:03):
a promise he could deliver the eggssafely so Mixedhead didn't blow up. And
then Constantine, who had lost hismagic early in the season Hello animated episode
from last year, had been lookingfor something called the Fountain of Imperium,
which could bestow magical abilities and helpedto do something with the Spanish Civil War
in a previous episode that we'll getto eventually. Anyway, he had promised
sorry two point zero that he hadstopped looking for the fountain, but really
(04:24):
he was conspiring with Bishop to stealthe wave Rider and mix the eggs to
find the fountain in the past.And that's what you missed one Glee.
Incredible, incredible, well done,Tricia. Thank you. I never want
to write the recaps again because you'revery good. Thanks But you actually have
some fun behind the scenes stuff thatI don't think. Well, I didn't
(04:46):
know, but I also forgot godthing. I mean, yeah, this
is this is I'm usual. Podcastsis a drinking hobby for me. Frankly,
usually it's wine in my glass.But tonight we've got some whiskey to
say goodbye to the late great conJohnstantine. There. Constantine dies in this
(05:08):
episode. He shows up once morein the next episode, I think just
for one scene if I remember correctly, But this is the end, and
obviously Matt Ryan stays with the show. But I was looking back at this
and it's like, no one saysit, No one is on the record
saying it, but it's pretty muchif you know the history of how DC
(05:28):
television and films and another television work. Shortly before this season started, I
think it was announced that JJ Abramswas doing a lot of DC development stuff
at the time and was going todevelop a Constantine show for HBO Max,
and it was going to go adifferent way with a wanted a person of
(05:49):
color for that once. Obviously MattRyan, the whitest man you know,
is not in the running for that. That year or two, it is
announced, Hey, Constantine's leaving theshow, but Matt staying, and it's
like, well, that's curious.So seemingly this has to do with the
(06:10):
age old DC thing of like weonly want one version of these characters out
there. Yeah, I kind ofremember the Constantine Show being like a thing
that was happening, but also itnever happened, so that but also the
greenlit a second movie too. Irecently rewatched the two thousand and five ish
Keanu Reeves Constantine movie, which isbetter than you remember it being, but
(06:31):
it also is not a Constantine movie, and just thinking the whole time,
oh right, they're gonna do anotherone. We haven't heard anything about that
in a very long time, sincebefore James Gun. So it's just to
say what's gonna happen, Although Constantinis a very James Gun character. Yeah,
that's true, so who knows what'sgonna happen. But it's a it's
(06:53):
a little bit of a bummer thatwe lost Constantine. But we will talk
about sort of my feelings and I'msure your feelings as well on the way
they handled his story and this season. Oh, we'll get to it,
yes here before we jump in Teamrundown Sarah, Ava, Mick, Nate
sorry two point oh bay Rod,but he's mi Ia. Where the hell
was Bayrod? I'm sure something todo with guess Gus or something. I
(07:14):
don't know. I can't remember whathappened to Barrod. Yeah, I don't.
I don't remember why. He's theonly one missing here but John for
five more seconds, Gary, Astraand Spooner. Indeed, it is one
of my favorite lineups of the team, which I think is yeah, super
fun. There's a lot of funcharacters and a lot of cool people.
And when the episode started, Iwas like, oh, I missed Ava.
(07:34):
I haven't watched an Ava episode ina bit. Oh, that's fair,
I did miss her. So thisis a weird episode. It's very
much like our transitionary period right comingoff of sort of the overall of the
season into sort of the race tothe finish. But it doesn't feel like
nothing's happening, like a lot happens, while also not necessarily moving a lot
(07:55):
of plot forward, Like it's justsort of like wrapping up certain things to
get to other things. You're gonnasay, yeah, like, there's a
lot happening with some characters, thelike basic team of the Legends, like
our co captains have fucking shit.Yeah, it's bizarre. Like every time
Katie had a line, I'm like, oh, Sarah gonna do something.
No, No, she's just gonnathreaten someone or just say something quippi.
(08:20):
Okay, yeah, I say somethinglike this is really gonna work whatever.
But meanwhile they're they're they're just youknow, uh uh, you know,
Sarah is a d plot in thisepisode because like there's a lot of shenanigans
with your favorite Parastra and Spooner,and and meanwhile John and Bishop are doing
shrooms. Indeed, they are doingshrooms. They're doing magical stuff, shom
(08:41):
stuff so much shrooms. I reallylike this and we'll talk about it in
a moment. But so you havea note in here that I want you
to expand on, which is thatyou like this idea that the show isn't
afraid to flirt with one of themactually being like actually bad. Yes,
what are your feelings? I knowing, I mean, we all knew that
(09:05):
this was where we were going withJohn, watching him kind of go through
the go off the deep end throughthis season. I think it makes sense,
and especially in a season where wherelike Mick, who is probably the
other most likely person to really gooff the deep end of these people is
like in essentially a rom com comedypilot or plotline, it makes sense to
(09:31):
do this with John. Also,you know the other shenanigans that we talked
about, but I like the ideaof like, this isn't a team,
These are not the most noble,This is not the Justice League, you
know, like this, this isnot the people ordined to be together forever.
This is a ragtag bunch of people, and sometimes they're going to be
selfish when when it's appropriate for thecharacter, and it they built it to
(09:56):
be appropriate for the character here,So it's it's interesting to see John truly
turn on the team. He stealsthe damn wave Rider and strands them in
this episode, you know, liketo get away from them and screws over
Spooner and Astra doing it too.Like, I think it's a totally valid
way. It's not character assassination tome, nor is it unredeemable. Like
(10:20):
we still love John, but he'sgoing through some stuff, and it feels
appropriate to me. I don't knowhow to strike you. No, I
think it feels appropriate too. Thesetwo guys sort of like teaming up is
just interesting because it's very much likepeople using another person for their own ends.
There. They are not a teameither. They're just like two people
who have a goal and they're goingto use the other person to accomplish that
(10:41):
goal wherever possible. Ye, whichis good one of the things that I
like about So Bishop is not myfavorite villain by any means. He should
be, but he's not. AndI don't remember anything about him as previously
dis Yeah, you never remember anythingabout him. I always I have to
write the recaps for Bishop episodes becauseyou don't remember Bishop, which I think
is very funny. Which Bishop isthis? What's happening? So for reference,
(11:07):
this is the Bishop that was onthe planet with Sarah trying to clone
her into a million Sarah as usingone of her promotional pictures from like season
three in season seven, where I'mlike, what the fuck is that?
Right? Yes, I'm confused.But Bishop is an interesting villain. He's
an interesting villain archetype that I dolike, which is also in some ways
(11:28):
the kind of almost the kind ofLex Luthor that I like, which is
this like kind of reasonable, charismaticguy who just does everything as incorrect as
he possibly can. Mm hmm.You know, he could be using all
of his you know, technology andresources and whatever to solve an actual problem,
and instead he's going to try tocreate a utopia. You know,
(11:50):
uh, seventy nine, seventy eightLex Luthor could have been using his money
to do something philanthropic, but insteadhe's buying up property and trying to ye
part of California off so that hehas ocean from him, Like it's a
so And also like the Michael Rosenmumversion for Smallville, like their charismatic characters
(12:15):
who are also just really evil.M hm. So there's a thing that
I really like about Bishop. Wetalked about it in like the first episode
I think with him, where he'slike he's the villain who sunk all of
his stat points into charisma. Heis all personality and absolutely no empathy,
no like being a person. He'sall personality, no person which is just
(12:37):
a fascinating way to have a villainbecause like you kind of want to like
him, but he is hilariously evil, Like he's an entertaining villain in that,
like he is unabashedly evil. None, no part of any of his
plan is a good thing for anyof our heroes. You hate him immediately
and all the time, but alsolike you feel like, well, he's
(12:58):
just such an interesting dude. Likethere's got to be something in there,
right, There's like if you catchhim on a day where he's just like,
you know, it's a weekend,I'm just chill. He's a great
hang yeah exactly, you know,but I want to get high with Bishop
and like you know, watch thirtyRock or something, you know, like
the episode that they didn't that theydidn't do, you know, like out
(13:20):
there in the ether somewhere of likehim getting high with Bahrad and then like
remembering that he's evil or something.Right after the Beg's album ends, he's
like, oh wait, no,sorry, I wanted to kill you people,
right exactly. Like so there's there'ssomething about this type of villain that
I like. I don't think itwas one hundred executed as well as it
could have been, But I alsocan't put my finger on exactly what I
would have changed, other than Ithink there's a little bad bit of a
(13:43):
bad taste in my mouth for whatthey did, like bringing him back in
the following season, Like do wereally need to go back to this to
the well, go back to thischaracter. But for the purposes of this
episode, he's just fun and maniacal. Yes, yes he is, and
he's doing his plan, you know, like it's very much it's him and
John teamed up. But like,obviously John is the character that we care
(14:05):
about, that is that is alegend that we've been focusing on. So
it's very much John's story. Butbut Bishop has a lot to contribute here
and becomes really really takes the villainrole at the end of the episode into
the next. But meanwhile, youknow, like around him, John is
trying to restore his magic. He'sthe junkie after the fix, as we've
discussed in our season six episodes,and like going back to the other point,
(14:30):
like I think it's interesting to seehow committed he is to this idea
at this point, like he isburning bridges, he is. It starts
with him, you know, thelegends confronting him of like what happened?
I thought you were done taking thisfake blood stuff like what's going on.
He's talking Tossari, and she's theone that realizes, oh, this is
(14:50):
bullshit. You're a distraction, andhe's doing this that he can steal the
Waveriders so that he can he cankind of try to fuck over Baby Spooner
when he realizes that she's an opportunityto get in touch with the Fountain of
Imperium. Like he generally just likedoes not have a problem right now getting
in the Legend's way and really leavingthem high and dry to go after his
(15:15):
his goals. Like that's that's newfor John. Like this is truly a
new low, and it justifies hisdeath a little bit. You know,
Yeah, in many ways, itreally does. And I think that,
like you said earlier, as thatcharacter assassination in the sense that like we've
seen this gradual shift over like everysingle episode this year has some element of
it in the plot where it's likewe're starting out with John, you know,
(15:39):
deciding to be in a relationship withZari, deciding to like you know,
there's a whole episode where like shegets to call him boyfriend and like
that's the thing, and so likehe's trying to be there, but then
he also loses his magic and hehas to deal with the fact that,
like he we did that episode.So as I mentioned in the recat,
like we did do the episode wherehe loses his magic last year. He
was okay with it at the timetime. But and you know, one
(16:00):
of the things we talked about washow like they plot this descent into like,
oh, I am not okay withoutthis thing that I used to have,
and you know, the way thathe sort of falls down the rabbit
hole of trying to find a wayto get some semblance of his old life
back. And you know, drinkingvampire blood I think was the the drug
he was the implication, right,yeah, and like just being like he
(16:22):
plays it so well, like thatthat whole like Junkie after the hit thing
where he's just seeking another fix andanother thing and the Fountain of Imperium is
going to be the thing that fixeseverything. And so now he needs to
have it and he needs to getit and he doesn't care who gets in
his way, as as you said, And I think they just plotted it
really well. And also Matt Ryanplayed it really well. I you agree,
truly, it's such it. Ilove the character. I understand where
(16:45):
they did it, and I likethat they respected who the character is and
they let him go the darker way, but without without truly like being irredeemable
at the end, or like makingyou hate him or whatever. But it
is just it's a shame to seethat this actor doesn't get to play this
character more, even though like everyepisode of him in the Era verse is
(17:08):
truly a gift, you know.After the NBC show ended, but I
remember feeling that, I'm like,I'm glad the actor is staying on board,
but god damn it, I'm gonnamiss John Constantine is a part of
this group, right, Yeah,definitely, Yeah, there's just a lot
like they I think they, likeI said, I think they plotted this
so well and I think that theyearned the death, and I think it's
(17:30):
like it does feel like a conclusionof his story, Like I don't see
any way that he comes back fromthis with this team having done all of
that to them. No, No, I think like it's a it's a
world of of make him ups,Like you could have brought him back ultimately
in season eight if you really wantedto for some reason, but like the
dynamic has changed now forever. It'sinteresting. They did do a beautiful job
(17:55):
of plotting it, especially character wisethat the plot does involve a giant alien
mushroom. Yes, which I likefor different reasons, but I do too.
It feels like the show truly embracing, like, look, we're subversive,
we're putting it out there. Wedon't think I don't think your general
Legends fan is experiencing psychedelics, youknow, regularly, But like, that's
(18:22):
kind of the subversive vibe that thisshow has, so let's put it on
screen in a certain way. Yes, And I agree in some ways of
that, like of that being thething that they're going for is like we're
just gonna talk about shrooms. Butat the same time, mushrooms as like
an interconnected organism or an interconnected thingpops up a lot in various pop culture,
(18:47):
especially having to do with magic.It's there's just sort of this idea
that every mushroom is connected through itslike essentially root systems. So like,
one of the ones that comes uprecently for me is Motherland Fort Salem,
which is about like which is inmodern day, and they have a whole
thing about they have this mother mushroomcalled the my cilium because it mushroom.
(19:11):
There's a major mushroom called then ciliumthat like runs throughout the Earth and it
is all connected literally and if youaffect it in certain ways, it's where
their magic comes from. And soit's this idea. Yeah, it's basically
it's very much like the Green andDC has obviously DC has the Green,
which is the same thing for likecharacters like swamp thing. But it's kind
(19:32):
of that it's kind of that thingwhere it's like, this is an interconnected
thing. This it's literally an interconnectedorganism on the planet. Therefore it like
it has mystical abilities or it hassort of like a romantic idea to it.
Plus mushrooms have a romance to themof like that they thrive in less
than ideal conditions, low sunlight,lots of moisture, that kind of thing.
(19:53):
So like do you like it fromthe let's do streams perservative of like
the wacky part of Legends, whichis definitely part of But I think like
this is sort of in my mind, this is the two sides of the
writer's room, right, this islike the fun, wacky side. We're
gonna throw out suggestions and then there'sthe more poetic side of like, you
know, oh, but what ifit was this, Like that's a great
idea, what if it was this? And I think that that is a
(20:15):
great way to write television. Yeah, I honestly I didn't know this kind
of more poetic side of the mushroomthing. I thought it was them trying
to put the subtext on screen basicallyand be like, yeah, we're the
weird one. I am in noway saying that you are wrong. There
is a high likelihood that you areone hundred percent correctly. It is no
rooms what we know of the writersthat makes sense that it's just like,
(20:37):
yeah, there's there's an inevitability tothat. Also, by the way,
and let's not quote any of thesenews sources, because only shit, when
I look this up, there arepeople that are like, uh, yeah,
we think mushrooms are aley and origin. Nobody mentioned magic, nobody mentioned
in extraterrestrial magic. But there isa line of thinking. And I shouldn't
(21:02):
make fun of people that believe this, because I believe weird things too.
But it's like there is that isout there in the ether that perhaps you
know, mushrooms are have an extraterrestrialorigin. So I was interested to find
that out when I looked this upfor this episode where I'm like, is
this just out of nowhere or isthis like kind of a pop cultury subcultury
(21:29):
thing? And it is. Yeah, there's I mean that also, like
if you're gonna do a whole seasonabout aliens on a wacky show like this,
like you google like any freakin' waylike alien story, alien theory.
Absolutely, you work that into thestory. And it's fun to end with,
like to start with Olester Crowley goinglike, oh yes, the alien
magic's of the fountain of a Barium, And to end with actually, it's
just kind of like a grove ofmushrooms. You know, it's just like
(21:52):
an alien but sometimes one gets reallybig. Yeah, exactly, Yeah,
I think of it. Also,it's like like a Gothic romance, like
Gothic poorror, that kind of thingwhere it's like the thing that survives when
everything else is dead. Like Ihave two different tattoos. There are skulls
with stuff growing out of them.Only one is a Pokemon. Have you
(22:14):
watched Pokemon Concierge. I have not, but you're the second person this week
to suggest it to me. It'sreally cute. That's what I cat is
like, the main character is annoying, and I'm like, it's Pokemon,
the main characters annoying. Did youwatch the original of Pokemon ashes? Really
annoying? Fuck ash, But that'scute. It just visually it is.
So yeah, I've heard anyway,So okay, we're gonna get into the
(22:34):
stuff that I love that I amso glad you had in here because obviously
I would have added it. AndI'm going to talk about certain things that
happens in this but Spooner and asterforget to hang out, yes, deep
in the Hard Texas. So yes, the spoon Astra stuff, basically the
Spooner stuff, right, is thereason I like this episode. I agree,
(22:55):
it's the whole emotional heart of thething up to the point where John
gets murdered. So they have beenaccidentally like they've accidentally stowed away. They've
basically been kidnapped by mistake by Johnand Bishop. So they are now back
in nineteen twenty five Texas and theyget out of the wave Rider. They're
gonna they have to help themselves becauseGideon's been taken offline, et cetera.
(23:17):
You know, Gideon being offline.Yeah, constantly a thing. I like
the moment too where they're both like, can you drive the ship without Gideon?
Like, I don't even have adriver's license? Like, this is
not happened, right, this iswe are the beat dam We need to
go do beating things. We arethe noos. So they get off the
ship and they go walk around.They immediately encounter a dude who's been injured
and a woman who helps him.And you know, that woman happens to
(23:40):
be important. Uh, she doeshappen to be important. She is Gloria
Spooner's mother. And it's it's abig mystery at first, but it's it's
you know, figured out by theend of the episode. But essentially we
reveal in this episode that Spooner isnot from modern day like we thought she
(24:00):
was. She is from nineteen twentyfive Texas, and the giant mushroom Fountain
of Imperium alien time traveled her magictime traveled her into the future and wiped
her mind. I love the factthat sneakily they worked time travel into a
part of this new character's backstory.It's it's total, it's total, you
(24:25):
know. I'm sure they had thisin mind from the beginning, or at
least parts of it. But like, I love the kind of character work,
the fate stuff that is involved insomething like that here, and it's
late in the show you would forgivethem for not but it's really satisfying when
you realize, like, oh,you belong here too, right, Like
to your point, if they hadn'tdone this, I don't think we would
(24:48):
have necessarily missed it because it's notsomething you're thinking about. So the thing
for me was when this happened,when it was her mom and then it
turned out like she had been whiskedaway by the mushrooms, and that to
me was like it was weirdly surprising, Like you know, going into a
show like this, especially given likeprevious seasons, and they add a character
(25:08):
and then the plot and the finaleof the season has a lot to do
with that character, right, orthey add a you know, a mcguffin
or whatever, you would assume thatspooner because she's introduced as being important and
having this specific backstory that that's gonnaget wrapped up somehow in the end of
the season, Like that's going toplay in because of everything we know about
(25:29):
the show in previous seasons, andyet I was still so surprised at the
way it came back around to findingher mom and that it was on earth
and that it was in the past, Like it hadn't had anything to do
with aliens. Necessarily did a littlebit, but mostly with her and not
her mom. It hadn't been analien thing where she was going to find
her mom in the stars somewhere.It was a time travel thing, which
is what the show is all about. And it was really satisfying, like
(25:52):
in that way that like I don'tthink I would have necessarily missed it.
I wouldn't have been like, ohmy god, you didn't explain why what
happened with Spooner's mom, But Iknowing what this is now, like I'm
so glad they decided to go backto it and tie everything together. Yeah,
not leave that thread out there forseason eight or nine when they were
really getting desperate right right now,Yeah, not lead as a desperation thread,
(26:15):
right it was. It was somethingthat they wanted to do, like
a complete story and you know,complete the circle here, and it just
it's so good, it's so satisfying. It's also and to see this is
why I'm not making fun of thetime travel people, but like as a
fan of or someone that's interested inlike the alien induction stories, it kind
of tracks where it's like there isno real quantifying in my mind of like
(26:40):
what an alien abduction is, andlike your mind just like can't comprehend it,
and it fills in the gaps whereit can. Like it makes you
see Little Green Men maybe because you'veseen Little Green Men in you know,
a movie, and that's what makessense to you. So like for her
to be like, ah, youknow, she finds out here it was
a magical mushroom that that pulled herup into the sky, but like for
(27:03):
her to kind of translate that intolike she was a wor the world fans,
so an alien tractor beam abducted herand her mom and like who knows
what happened, She lost time,blah blah blah. Like that all totally
tracks for like that world to me, and it is the cool way to
kind of tie all that. Yeah, and also like having it be a
traumatic episode that leads to what happenedis like you're gonna want to forget that
(27:23):
part, like you're gonna be youblock out. Yeah, your nine year
old brain is gonna block out thefact that you watch your mom get shot
before you got abducted, So you'rejust thinking we both got abducted, and
now my mom is missing, andI know something hard. I have this
feeling something horrible happened to my mom, but I can't figure out what it
was. It must have been thealiens or whatever exactly. And then it
turns out the aliens were actually thegood guys in this sense, and it
(27:45):
was people that were the bad guys. The thing that like the giant mushroom
looks like a flying saucer. Yeah, it's got the tentacles from where the
worlds. And I'm like this alltrack, like this is really cool.
This is what an eight year oldkid's mind would turn this into. It's
it's rad to me. It's reallynice backwards writing. Yeah, And I
mean like they do a really greatjob also with sort of writing her confusion
(28:08):
but also conviction for like, oh, I found my mom, this is
it, this is I'm staying here, I'm fixing the past. That's what's
happening. And it also gives meone of my little like, oh,
they're kind of in love moments inthis episode, which is the you know,
basically Astra being like kind of upsetthat Spooner wants to stay and like
(28:29):
leave her, leave her, andlike like I just found this fringship kind
of thing, and I'm like,oh, I get it. But also
it's it's totally there when like shit'sabout to go down with the oil barons
we've barely talked about but don't matter, and it's like on Astra to get
baby Spooner away from her. Yeah, And there's something so lovely about just
(28:52):
like the trust of like I trustmore than anyone that woman with my younger
self, Like she will not letsomething happen to me, even though,
like you know, she was sorecently a super villain, right, so
she like comes into this as afresh start. It's just such a nice
thing about like redemption and the waythat like these characters can find each other
and have meaningful relationships, even ifit doesn't necessarily end up being romantic.
(29:15):
I do like what they do withspoot Her in the future. It's also
very like it's totally appropriate for thisshow. But just the thought that the
mushroom, that the Fountain of Imperium, these these alien mushrooms are here to
protect Earth. They are keeping Earthsafe from alien invasions. That's why Bishop
wants to kill them. Yeah,and they respect like the innocence and the
(29:37):
trauma that this little girl is goingthrough, and it's like, you know
what, let's put her in thefuture. Let's let her forget about it,
let's get her away from here,you know. Like again, it's
it's totally this show. It's anappropriate level of like benevolent space creature,
you know. Yeah, I meanit's very much the show is like commitment
to humanity almost not like necessarily humanityas a species, but like humanity as
(29:57):
like a inherent part of being aperson. And this idea that like even
an alien creature can like see thatand have it and you know want to
protect it in some way. It'sjust it's just really nice where this really
freaking wacky show about like space,mushrooms and shit is also like, oh
but also everyone loves everyone else.And it used to be about time travel.
(30:18):
It's not really about travel, notreally about fight like tracking down space
fascists anymore. Yeah, I wouldn'tworry about that things it is now that
we've told how much we love allthis stuff. Yes, it's a little
charmed in a bad way when Spoonergoes out to defend her mom and it's
just like I'm gonna I'm gonna feelreal hard at you guys, and my
(30:40):
hands are gonna light up and you'regonna feel bad about it now. From
what I remember, the Spanish CivilWar episode is something similar when the fountain
like which did oh yeah, yeah, yeah, like did something and scared
off. I can't remember anything aboutthis episode unfortunately, but like it it
did something to protect the that kidand like you know, make him able
(31:03):
to help other people and like givehim specific abilities. Like there's a in
a way I like it, butI agree that like it was a little
bit handwavy. Yeah, there's alittle just like the the magic or the
science fiction of it is just likea little c w where like this week,
my hand's glow and I can makeyou feel this, you know,
it's like that. Yeah, Imean her like abilities have been Smallville and
(31:27):
it's supernag and everything else. Likeit's not this is not a point against
it. It's just funny. Yeah. Her abilities have been growing, like
to be able to communicate with thealiens and to be able to speak their
language and understand what they're saying andall that, but like this is so
different from everything else that we've seen, so yeah, it's very much like
a okay, handwavy and then itlike never becomes a thing again. Right,
she kind of sideways gets powers becausebaby her is getting gobbled up by
(31:51):
the giant mushroom and like there's asymbiosis thing happening seemingly between them, but
we're never gonna spell it out andit's not gonna happen against don't worry about
Yeah, but I love all thisSpooner stuff, like it is the emotional
center of this episode, and likefinding out exactly what really happened and why
this happened to her, and likealso coming to grows with the idea that
it has to happen again. That'salways fun to keep happening. Like she
has to let the little kid versionof her end up in the future in
(32:15):
order to survive and in order tobecome the person who is here and who
has helped and who has done allthese things. You know, it's not
the first time that Legends has donethat type of like I have to let
the horrible thing happen yeah, orthe Aerrow Verse in general, Like that's
what Season one of The Flash isbuilt around, but it always kind of
hits. Yeah, I don't thinkit's ever gonna be as good as it
was in season two with Sarah choosingto not fix the world, but we'll
(32:38):
get there when we get there.Yeah, yeah, maybe tomorrow, who
knows, maybe tomorrow. Meanwhile,the Legends have to like nag Kayla on
alien social media to come help them. This is this is aggressively stupid.
It's even for me, it's verymuch. We need to spend five minutes
figuring out a way to get Kaylaback into the picture and to get them
(32:59):
to nineteen twenty. So get themon the ship. We've got to right
out by the way, we're killingoff John. Matt's going to stick around,
but we've got to get rid ofMick here too. We have to
do that too. Like, yeah, Dominic Purcel is gonna leave at the
end of the season, and soyeah, Dominic made some weird social media
posts and seeing the money wasn't good, so he's out. You know,
I definitely missed all the behind thescenes stuff that happened with the cast changes
(33:21):
this season. But because it waslike post me working in entertainment journalism.
So I definitely like just went whooand forgot you watched the show like a
normal here. I didn't write essayon essay about it. But yeah,
so they have to do that too. I'm making up for lost time.
They do have to get very much. So they do have to get Kayla
(33:42):
back here so she can like youknow, get him away too, as
you said. And so he hadall the eggs. The eggs are still
on the ship. They need toget kaya here because they need her ship.
So we're going to make a poston alien and social media bake fake
eggs too, which I was like, yeah, I held you figure this
out, but the fake it reallywas. It doesn't matter. We just
have to get to from here tohere, and we have to spend five
minutes on it, So do itthis way. Don't worry about it.
(34:04):
It's like a tiny bit of levityin an otherwise very serious episode. Two.
Yes it is. It is trulya little too stupid. Oh,
it's definitely I understand where where youhave to do this in this episode.
But the minute like Gary brings outthe ring that is a galaxy post and
like Hill is always on there,like she's gonna see the post and be
all pissed off about it and comeafter the babies. I'm like, oh,
(34:29):
okay, sure, why not,you know, like sure, who
cares? If Ray was still here, we'd build some sort of beacon that
would go out in time, youknow, But we don't have someone to
do that anymore, So let's dothat. We're just using this disc that
is also a phone slash whatever.Yes, again, real easy week for
Katie, you know, like goodfor her, really easy week for all
(34:50):
of them, like they were onset for a day. I do like
the line where they're like, andthat's without a time courier, why do
we even take those off? No, don't even don't ask you know that
that is between Nate and Ava andlike, yep, cool, why not
just hanging a lantern on those Yeah? No, they hang a lantern on
that kind of thing all the time, which I appreciate as someone who nitpicks.
Yep, But yeahs off with thatnonsense, because that does not matter
(35:14):
at all except to help them,like get to the twenty twenty five and
to save the eggs and it getsblown up and he'll be fine on the
next episode, we do have ourour conclusion. Yes, sorry, this
is the end of John. There'san inevitability. There's an uneasy inevitability to
this scene, right, Like weknow going as fans of this show,
(35:36):
and even if you don't know thebehind the scenes crap scene where he's going,
you don't think it's going to endwell for John and for him to
die shortly after Spooner has been abductedinto this thing and like all seems right
with the world, and then hedies and eventually like tricked by Bishop,
(35:57):
right, like Bishop says he's goingto take this potion formula whatever that is,
gonna make him appear to the fountainto be as innocent as someone like
Spooner as a young child, andthey'll give him his power. He knows
John's gonna steal it. John stealsthat, takes it. It works,
but also there's poison in it,so he kills John while he becomes part
(36:17):
of the fountain. Like there's there'sI don't know, it's nicely done.
It's a bizarre way. It's oneof those things where like you could never
have guessed it, but there isthat uneasy inevitability to it. Yeah,
it's like you said, and that'sa good way to put it on easy
inevitability, because like you said,there watching it going like there's only like
you're watching the scene play out,there's only like one way that this is
(36:40):
gonna go. This is very muchas someone's gonna die scene in a lot
of ways. And it also feelscorrect. It's different from feeling right,
but it feels correct, like itfeels like the way that you should write
that, and you should eventually becausewe you know, when he reappears in
the next episode, we see sortof his rebirth final four yeah, yeah,
(37:04):
kind of thing, and it feltcorrect like watching the episode when I
watched it originally, just being like, yeah, that's that's the way you
have to do that. Do youthink he should have wound up in hell
because he seems at peace in thefinal episode. Maybe we should talk about
that whenever we get to that.No, that's fine, I know I
don't think he should wind up inhell, just because two things. One,
(37:29):
this is not his show. PuttingJohn in hell and making that a
thing doesn't seem like it fits thisshow necessarily because this show is also doing
like the funny, ridiculous version ofHell, and not necessarily that's fair.
Two, we've moved beyond that inthe show, so it would feel weird
to suddenly end up back in Hell, and it would feel weird for that,
(37:50):
after all of this, to endup to be where John ends up.
So I think having him like becomepart of the fountain and then be
sort of reborn from the fountain makesmuch more sense and feels more in line
with the narrative we have in theshow versus the narrative that John has on
his own. I think that's fair. Yeah, I don't think that I
was able to articulate that, sothank you. But I also don't have
(38:13):
a problem with like, you don'thave to write him off bye bye bye
damning into Hell. You can.You can write him off another way.
And you're right that he has.He has moved on from that here.
Is he still a bit of abastard? Yes? Absolutely does he does
he regret it and apologize to Spoonerlike that. I think the not as
Spooner Asterix sees me. I thinka really nice gift they give the character,
(38:37):
which is which is a thing thatyou need to do for the audience
sometimes is to let him see herwhen he's dying and there's no like you're
the best thing I ever happened typething. He's in a moment of crisis
of like I killed it, youknow, like that's his last words basically.
But it's lovely that she is therebecause, like, you know,
(38:59):
she is the best thing he everdid. Right, very much. So,
I mean, you had to havethat moment with Astra and at the
same time you have to have thenext episode's moment was sorry, Yeah,
oh totally. And I just thinkthat they did a really good job.
I think everything in the show endsup, for as wacky and ridiculous as
it is, always ends up sowell considered. Yes, there's a lot
of awesome way to say that.Yeah, there's a lot of care taken
(39:20):
in the way that they write certainlike major plot points, and I just
really I always really appreciate it andreally like it. Ridiculousness aside, you
know, the end the episode withthe dead John Constantine and Bishop being our
bad guy for the end of theseason, it's it's it's it's a weird
one did a very melancholy and butagain very satisfying, but it's a weird
way to end a podcast. Shouldwe play some play game. Let's completely
(39:43):
shift our moods like this episode dida couple of times. Yep, I'm
going to keep us in it.Though. My legendary moment is the death
of John Constant and mine is rightbefore it where a little Spooner gets abducted
by a mushroom. Yeah, justcool and as a wrap up to her
so and also it was very coolvisuals. I liked it. There's like
a lot of their VFX budget intothis episode. Again, I love an
(40:06):
episode of Legends too, like thisis this is the narrative whiplash that I
get addicted to with the show,where like, you start that episode and
you go like, no way inthe world could I have considered that this
episode will end with a child beingabducted and time traveled by a magical alien
mushroom. But here we fucking are. Do you have a most valuable legend?
(40:30):
I think we both have the sameone. We both want you go
first. I'll ask you, Okay, it's Spooner, She's just all the
things. I'm just gonna say yougo first because you entered it first into
addossier, But yeah, inarguably itsoner. She's the one doing shit here.
Yeah, very much. So let'splay some bango. Let's play some bingo
(40:52):
again. Congratulations listeners on your winlast time. This is our new card.
Now we only have two from mycount unless you saw something else but
ohit. Yes, meet yourself,shame on me entering it right now,
Yes, meet yourself. With thespooners, we've got John Constantine fire hands,
which Bishop calls out, which Iappreciate. Yeah, and a Gideon
(41:15):
malfunction. Gideon is offline thanks toBishop at the start of this episode.
It's a really easy week for Amy. Yeah, very easy week. And
yeahs an off week. It's aneasy six years for Amy. Let's be
let's be very clear. Let's playsome cars. To say, the timeline
scenarios, you traveled back in timeand found out you came from Blank all
(41:37):
along and rerouting Gideon's protocols will shortcircuit her Blank and leave the ship opened
up the lank. In a surprisetwist, it turns out Blank was actually
Blank the whole time. Got toget more of those two First, what
is that one? Yeah? Isthat the mushrooms? Yes? Yeah?
Is it okay? So? Isit galaxopose or galixipos? Turns out you'll
(41:59):
get the likes on galaxipost with aphoto of Blank. I don't know.
We will truly have to check thevideo. Both seem right and stupid slush
people. There's a lot of mushroomsin here. Yeah, a lot of
mushrooms stuff. Go figure John Constantine'smushroom which I looked ahead on that one.
So forgive me your mom from nineteentwenty five. That thing where a
(42:22):
fountain you're looking for him is actuallymushrooms that are actually magical aliens and a
nagging galaxipost and I have a nineteentwenties oil Barreon who we didn't really talk
about this episode. It doesn't mattermagic mushrooms pread the season is too many
mushrooms and your daughter from the futureperfect? Why not weird one again?
(42:43):
We're like, we're mid in arc. It should have been a two parter,
maybe, like it was a toughone to do cards for, right,
it was, Yeah, I wastough one to do cards for.
I ended up like ripping off acouple of hours and just changing what they
said. Yeah, scarpe in thebottom of the mushroom barrel. But that's
fine very much. So are youready to all, it's your turn.
I am ready to roll. Tricia, do you have the episode? I
(43:04):
do because I was looking something elseup earlier. Okay, rolling for season
Triscia, ready, I'm ready.Here we go season three, Season three
and rolling for episode three fifteen.Look, no, it is not what
is it? Three fifteen is Elvisamazing race? Elvis has a haunted guitar.
(43:30):
Fun. This will be an excitingone. It is a weird one,
so it'll be it'll be fun.Yeah, but it's a standalone it's
a fun one. We get thedeath. Yeah, it's the death Totem.
It's where they figure out there isa death totem. Uh. It's
Elvis's guitar. It's a decent Elvisimpression. Uh. And it's weirdly religious
(43:50):
and I don't remember that, butinteresting, I remember Wally does some stuff.
I remember uh Amaya looking great.Yes. Also, it's the It's
because in the previous episode of thispodcast, we talked about how they stop
doing the thing where the time streamhelps them be like safe from changes in
the timeline, and they started doingThat's what this episode is. It's Trombone
(44:14):
Hero and Josh Grobin, the ratYEP yep, okay, cool, I
look forward to that. This isa really fun, stupid, weird plot
that you can do with a timetravel shout. So let's do it.
Indeed, so let's do It'll befun cool. Well, this has been
a learning curve, it has forus. But again, poor went out
for dearly departed John Constantine. Thankyou for your service to the show.
(44:37):
We'll see it maybe in two weekswho's but until then, don't call us
podcasters were Legends Always hold On ToDC's Legends of Tomorrow is produced by Zach
Moore as part of the Always holdon To podcast family. Listen to Zach's
other great podcasts wherever you're hearing this, and check out even more podcast action
on the Always hold on to SmallvillePatreon page. You can find more legends
(44:59):
good and on social at Legends ofAlways, and feel free to send us
an email at Legends of Always atgmail dot com, hashtag save a hot
to clot and rate and review usin app Please do that, please,
please please you beautiful nerd, youthanks for listening. That woman happens to
(45:31):
be important. She does what chokingon my constantinous yeah underg
All right, Tricia, we gotsome reveals in this episode about the origins
of a certain food, a certaingarnish. If you had to point a
finger at another food, vegetable,plants, creature of some kind that would
have extraterrestrial origins. So what doyou think, what do you think is
(00:23):
the most likely candidate? Octopus?Oh, that makes sense. So many
tentacles also, like you know,yeah, yeah, yeah, and I
think it's an octopus monster in thatmovie Europa about about the monster. And
also that one episode of Legends TagumaAttacks Attacks, We'll know at the end
(00:44):
of this theme song to gum OToomo attacks. That was Yeah, that's
(01:08):
one of my faves because I thinkI've put it up for a poll in
the past two in season one.Yes, great episode. Anyway, we're
not talking about that today, butwe are going to welcome you to always
hold on to DC's Legends of Tomorrow. I'm your co captain Mattrox and I'm
your other co captain, Tricia Ennis, and we are We talked about this
off Mike today and I think thisis this is fair to share with the
(01:30):
audience. This is a this isa we have a lot to talk about
I'm sure we will have a fullpodcast today, but we're like, you
know, this could have been adoubled up episode, like maybe we could
have done the episode before this andthis one at the same time, because
they are a not official two parteravery much. So, I mean,
like Legends never really does part onepart two. But there are several instances
(01:53):
throughout the show where like an episodeleads like seamlessly into the next episode,
and you could watch them as onehour and a half long episode, right,
So I think this is an instanceof when we should have done that
if we had looked ahead and thoughtabout it a little more, but we
didn't, and so we will learnfor next time. So there will be
instances where we have double episodes justbecause the episodes, like our, especially
(02:14):
this one, starts in the middleof the action. Right. You had
a good example, and I forgetwhat it was, oh season one one
when they get end up back inthe fifties with the weird porcupine bird hawk
people aren't hawks with the meteorite withthat one because Sarah Ray and kendro A'll
get stranded in the nineteen fifties.So then the next episode is that continuation
(02:35):
of the story. Even though it'snot a two parter, it's thematically a
two parter, so I would probablydo those both at the same time.
So in the future, if weroll like the second episode of that,
we'll just cover the both of them. That said, I don't think we're
gonna short this episode at all.We have plenty to talk about. We're
talking six fourteen. There will beBrewed. Aired August twenty ninth, twenty
(02:59):
twenty one. Written by the greatRadio Tar Natchet, directed by who Mazie
Richardson Sellers. I don't think we'vedone one of her directed episodes yet.
No, did she direct when shewas on the show. She just come
back. I think she just cameback after it wasn't ended episodes. Mmmm.
A bit of a Dacovny there.Right. On ratings, we're in
the lowest rated season of the show. We're in negative numbers at this point.
(03:21):
Basically, No, we're in pointfour three million people. Holy shit,
that hurts. We are under fivehundred thousand people watching this live.
Yes, indeed, And I don'tthink I could technically say I was one
of them watching it live, butI was one of them watching it in
the live plus seven so I wasgonna say I'm there that week. Does
(03:43):
that count? Yeah, exactly.So we have a lot to recap because
we haven't done the episode before thiswhere a lot takes place. And also
this season is just chock full ofweirdness. There's a cat on my chair.
I'm trying to do the complicated partgame. That's not part of the
weirdness for anyone. That's fairly normalfor us. Got pregnant by alien tentacles.
He is no longer pregnant because Bishopcame on board the wave Rider with
(04:03):
a promise he could deliver the eggssafely so Mixedhead didn't blow up. And
then Constantine, who had lost hismagic early in the season Hello animated episode
from last year, had been lookingfor something called the Fountain of Imperium,
which could bestow magical abilities and helpedto do something with the Spanish Civil War
in a previous episode that we'll getto eventually. Anyway, he had promised
sorry two point zero that he hadstopped looking for the fountain, but really
(04:24):
he was conspiring with Bishop to stealthe wave Rider and mix the eggs to
find the fountain in the past.And that's what you missed one Glee.
Incredible, incredible, well done,Tricia. Thank you. I never want
to write the recaps again because you'revery good. Thanks But you actually have
some fun behind the scenes stuff thatI don't think. Well, I didn't
(04:46):
know, but I also forgot godthing. I mean, yeah, this
is this is I'm usual. Podcastsis a drinking hobby for me. Frankly,
usually it's wine in my glass.But tonight we've got some whiskey to
say goodbye to the late great conJohnstantine. There. Constantine dies in this
(05:08):
episode. He shows up once morein the next episode, I think just
for one scene if I remember correctly, But this is the end, and
obviously Matt Ryan stays with the show. But I was looking back at this
and it's like, no one saysit, No one is on the record
saying it, but it's pretty muchif you know the history of how DC
(05:28):
television and films and another television work. Shortly before this season started, I
think it was announced that JJ Abramswas doing a lot of DC development stuff
at the time and was going todevelop a Constantine show for HBO Max,
and it was going to go adifferent way with a wanted a person of
(05:49):
color for that once. Obviously MattRyan, the whitest man you know,
is not in the running for that. That year or two, it is
announced, Hey, Constantine's leaving theshow, but Matt staying, and it's
like, well, that's curious.So seemingly this has to do with the
(06:10):
age old DC thing of like weonly want one version of these characters out
there. Yeah, I kind ofremember the Constantine Show being like a thing
that was happening, but also itnever happened, so that but also the
greenlit a second movie too. Irecently rewatched the two thousand and five ish
Keanu Reeves Constantine movie, which isbetter than you remember it being, but
(06:31):
it also is not a Constantine movie, and just thinking the whole time,
oh right, they're gonna do anotherone. We haven't heard anything about that
in a very long time, sincebefore James Gun. So it's just to
say what's gonna happen, Although Constantinis a very James Gun character. Yeah,
that's true, so who knows what'sgonna happen. But it's a it's
(06:53):
a little bit of a bummer thatwe lost Constantine. But we will talk
about sort of my feelings and I'msure your feelings as well on the way
they handled his story and this season. Oh, we'll get to it,
yes here before we jump in Teamrundown Sarah, Ava, Mick, Nate
sorry two point oh bay Rod,but he's mi Ia. Where the hell
was Bayrod? I'm sure something todo with guess Gus or something. I
(07:14):
don't know. I can't remember whathappened to Barrod. Yeah, I don't.
I don't remember why. He's theonly one missing here but John for
five more seconds, Gary, Astraand Spooner. Indeed, it is one
of my favorite lineups of the team, which I think is yeah, super
fun. There's a lot of funcharacters and a lot of cool people.
And when the episode started, Iwas like, oh, I missed Ava.
(07:34):
I haven't watched an Ava episode ina bit. Oh, that's fair,
I did miss her. So thisis a weird episode. It's very
much like our transitionary period right comingoff of sort of the overall of the
season into sort of the race tothe finish. But it doesn't feel like
nothing's happening, like a lot happens, while also not necessarily moving a lot
(07:55):
of plot forward, Like it's justsort of like wrapping up certain things to
get to other things. You're gonnasay, yeah, like, there's a
lot happening with some characters, thelike basic team of the Legends, like
our co captains have fucking shit.Yeah, it's bizarre. Like every time
Katie had a line, I'm like, oh, Sarah gonna do something.
No, No, she's just gonnathreaten someone or just say something quippi.
(08:20):
Okay, yeah, I say somethinglike this is really gonna work whatever.
But meanwhile they're they're they're just youknow, uh uh, you know,
Sarah is a d plot in thisepisode because like there's a lot of shenanigans
with your favorite Parastra and Spooner,and and meanwhile John and Bishop are doing
shrooms. Indeed, they are doingshrooms. They're doing magical stuff, shom
(08:41):
stuff so much shrooms. I reallylike this and we'll talk about it in
a moment. But so you havea note in here that I want you
to expand on, which is thatyou like this idea that the show isn't
afraid to flirt with one of themactually being like actually bad. Yes,
what are your feelings? I knowing, I mean, we all knew that
(09:05):
this was where we were going withJohn, watching him kind of go through
the go off the deep end throughthis season. I think it makes sense,
and especially in a season where wherelike Mick, who is probably the
other most likely person to really gooff the deep end of these people is
like in essentially a rom com comedypilot or plotline, it makes sense to
(09:31):
do this with John. Also,you know the other shenanigans that we talked
about, but I like the ideaof like, this isn't a team,
These are not the most noble,This is not the Justice League, you
know, like this, this isnot the people ordined to be together forever.
This is a ragtag bunch of people, and sometimes they're going to be
selfish when when it's appropriate for thecharacter, and it they built it to
(09:56):
be appropriate for the character here,So it's it's interesting to see John truly
turn on the team. He stealsthe damn wave Rider and strands them in
this episode, you know, liketo get away from them and screws over
Spooner and Astra doing it too.Like, I think it's a totally valid
way. It's not character assassination tome, nor is it unredeemable. Like
(10:20):
we still love John, but he'sgoing through some stuff, and it feels
appropriate to me. I don't knowhow to strike you. No, I
think it feels appropriate too. Thesetwo guys sort of like teaming up is
just interesting because it's very much likepeople using another person for their own ends.
There. They are not a teameither. They're just like two people
who have a goal and they're goingto use the other person to accomplish that
(10:41):
goal wherever possible. Ye, whichis good one of the things that I
like about So Bishop is not myfavorite villain by any means. He should
be, but he's not. AndI don't remember anything about him as previously
dis Yeah, you never remember anythingabout him. I always I have to
write the recaps for Bishop episodes becauseyou don't remember Bishop, which I think
is very funny. Which Bishop isthis? What's happening? So for reference,
(11:07):
this is the Bishop that was onthe planet with Sarah trying to clone
her into a million Sarah as usingone of her promotional pictures from like season
three in season seven, where I'mlike, what the fuck is that?
Right? Yes, I'm confused.But Bishop is an interesting villain. He's
an interesting villain archetype that I dolike, which is also in some ways
(11:28):
the kind of almost the kind ofLex Luthor that I like, which is
this like kind of reasonable, charismaticguy who just does everything as incorrect as
he possibly can. Mm hmm.You know, he could be using all
of his you know, technology andresources and whatever to solve an actual problem,
and instead he's going to try tocreate a utopia. You know,
(11:50):
uh, seventy nine, seventy eightLex Luthor could have been using his money
to do something philanthropic, but insteadhe's buying up property and trying to ye
part of California off so that hehas ocean from him, Like it's a
so And also like the Michael Rosenmumversion for Smallville, like their charismatic characters
(12:15):
who are also just really evil.M hm. So there's a thing that
I really like about Bishop. Wetalked about it in like the first episode
I think with him, where he'slike he's the villain who sunk all of
his stat points into charisma. Heis all personality and absolutely no empathy,
no like being a person. He'sall personality, no person which is just
(12:37):
a fascinating way to have a villainbecause like you kind of want to like
him, but he is hilariously evil, Like he's an entertaining villain in that,
like he is unabashedly evil. None, no part of any of his
plan is a good thing for anyof our heroes. You hate him immediately
and all the time, but alsolike you feel like, well, he's
(12:58):
just such an interesting dude. Likethere's got to be something in there,
right, There's like if you catchhim on a day where he's just like,
you know, it's a weekend,I'm just chill. He's a great
hang yeah exactly, you know,but I want to get high with Bishop
and like you know, watch thirtyRock or something, you know, like
the episode that they didn't that theydidn't do, you know, like out
(13:20):
there in the ether somewhere of likehim getting high with Bahrad and then like
remembering that he's evil or something.Right after the Beg's album ends, he's
like, oh wait, no,sorry, I wanted to kill you people,
right exactly. Like so there's there'ssomething about this type of villain that
I like. I don't think itwas one hundred executed as well as it
could have been, But I alsocan't put my finger on exactly what I
would have changed, other than Ithink there's a little bad bit of a
(13:43):
bad taste in my mouth for whatthey did, like bringing him back in
the following season, Like do wereally need to go back to this to
the well, go back to thischaracter. But for the purposes of this
episode, he's just fun and maniacal. Yes, yes he is, and
he's doing his plan, you know, like it's very much it's him and
John teamed up. But like,obviously John is the character that we care
(14:05):
about, that is that is alegend that we've been focusing on. So
it's very much John's story. Butbut Bishop has a lot to contribute here
and becomes really really takes the villainrole at the end of the episode into
the next. But meanwhile, youknow, like around him, John is
trying to restore his magic. He'sthe junkie after the fix, as we've
discussed in our season six episodes,and like going back to the other point,
(14:30):
like I think it's interesting to seehow committed he is to this idea
at this point, like he isburning bridges, he is. It starts
with him, you know, thelegends confronting him of like what happened?
I thought you were done taking thisfake blood stuff like what's going on.
He's talking Tossari, and she's theone that realizes, oh, this is
(14:50):
bullshit. You're a distraction, andhe's doing this that he can steal the
Waveriders so that he can he cankind of try to fuck over Baby Spooner
when he realizes that she's an opportunityto get in touch with the Fountain of
Imperium. Like he generally just likedoes not have a problem right now getting
in the Legend's way and really leavingthem high and dry to go after his
(15:15):
his goals. Like that's that's newfor John. Like this is truly a
new low, and it justifies hisdeath a little bit. You know,
Yeah, in many ways, itreally does. And I think that,
like you said earlier, as thatcharacter assassination in the sense that like we've
seen this gradual shift over like everysingle episode this year has some element of
it in the plot where it's likewe're starting out with John, you know,
(15:39):
deciding to be in a relationship withZari, deciding to like you know,
there's a whole episode where like shegets to call him boyfriend and like
that's the thing, and so likehe's trying to be there, but then
he also loses his magic and hehas to deal with the fact that,
like he we did that episode.So as I mentioned in the recat,
like we did do the episode wherehe loses his magic last year. He
was okay with it at the timetime. But and you know, one
(16:00):
of the things we talked about washow like they plot this descent into like,
oh, I am not okay withoutthis thing that I used to have,
and you know, the way thathe sort of falls down the rabbit
hole of trying to find a wayto get some semblance of his old life
back. And you know, drinkingvampire blood I think was the the drug
he was the implication, right,yeah, and like just being like he
(16:22):
plays it so well, like thatthat whole like Junkie after the hit thing
where he's just seeking another fix andanother thing and the Fountain of Imperium is
going to be the thing that fixeseverything. And so now he needs to
have it and he needs to getit and he doesn't care who gets in
his way, as as you said, And I think they just plotted it
really well. And also Matt Ryanplayed it really well. I you agree,
truly, it's such it. Ilove the character. I understand where
(16:45):
they did it, and I likethat they respected who the character is and
they let him go the darker way, but without without truly like being irredeemable
at the end, or like makingyou hate him or whatever. But it
is just it's a shame to seethat this actor doesn't get to play this
character more, even though like everyepisode of him in the Era verse is
(17:08):
truly a gift, you know.After the NBC show ended, but I
remember feeling that, I'm like,I'm glad the actor is staying on board,
but god damn it, I'm gonnamiss John Constantine is a part of
this group, right, Yeah,definitely, Yeah, there's just a lot
like they I think they, likeI said, I think they plotted this
so well and I think that theyearned the death, and I think it's
(17:30):
like it does feel like a conclusionof his story, Like I don't see
any way that he comes back fromthis with this team having done all of
that to them. No, No, I think like it's a it's a
world of of make him ups,Like you could have brought him back ultimately
in season eight if you really wantedto for some reason, but like the
dynamic has changed now forever. It'sinteresting. They did do a beautiful job
(17:55):
of plotting it, especially character wisethat the plot does involve a giant alien
mushroom. Yes, which I likefor different reasons, but I do too.
It feels like the show truly embracing, like, look, we're subversive,
we're putting it out there. Wedon't think I don't think your general
Legends fan is experiencing psychedelics, youknow, regularly, But like, that's
(18:22):
kind of the subversive vibe that thisshow has, so let's put it on
screen in a certain way. Yes, And I agree in some ways of
that, like of that being thething that they're going for is like we're
just gonna talk about shrooms. Butat the same time, mushrooms as like
an interconnected organism or an interconnected thingpops up a lot in various pop culture,
(18:47):
especially having to do with magic.It's there's just sort of this idea
that every mushroom is connected through itslike essentially root systems. So like,
one of the ones that comes uprecently for me is Motherland Fort Salem,
which is about like which is inmodern day, and they have a whole
thing about they have this mother mushroomcalled the my cilium because it mushroom.
(19:11):
There's a major mushroom called then ciliumthat like runs throughout the Earth and it
is all connected literally and if youaffect it in certain ways, it's where
their magic comes from. And soit's this idea. Yeah, it's basically
it's very much like the Green andDC has obviously DC has the Green,
which is the same thing for likecharacters like swamp thing. But it's kind
(19:32):
of that it's kind of that thingwhere it's like, this is an interconnected
thing. This it's literally an interconnectedorganism on the planet. Therefore it like
it has mystical abilities or it hassort of like a romantic idea to it.
Plus mushrooms have a romance to themof like that they thrive in less
than ideal conditions, low sunlight,lots of moisture, that kind of thing.
(19:53):
So like do you like it fromthe let's do streams perservative of like
the wacky part of Legends, whichis definitely part of But I think like
this is sort of in my mind, this is the two sides of the
writer's room, right, this islike the fun, wacky side. We're
gonna throw out suggestions and then there'sthe more poetic side of like, you
know, oh, but what ifit was this, Like that's a great
idea, what if it was this? And I think that that is a
(20:15):
great way to write television. Yeah, I honestly I didn't know this kind
of more poetic side of the mushroomthing. I thought it was them trying
to put the subtext on screen basicallyand be like, yeah, we're the
weird one. I am in noway saying that you are wrong. There
is a high likelihood that you areone hundred percent correctly. It is no
rooms what we know of the writersthat makes sense that it's just like,
(20:37):
yeah, there's there's an inevitability tothat. Also, by the way,
and let's not quote any of thesenews sources, because only shit, when
I look this up, there arepeople that are like, uh, yeah,
we think mushrooms are aley and origin. Nobody mentioned magic, nobody mentioned
in extraterrestrial magic. But there isa line of thinking. And I shouldn't
(21:02):
make fun of people that believe this, because I believe weird things too.
But it's like there is that isout there in the ether that perhaps you
know, mushrooms are have an extraterrestrialorigin. So I was interested to find
that out when I looked this upfor this episode where I'm like, is
this just out of nowhere or isthis like kind of a pop cultury subcultury
(21:29):
thing? And it is. Yeah, there's I mean that also, like
if you're gonna do a whole seasonabout aliens on a wacky show like this,
like you google like any freakin' waylike alien story, alien theory.
Absolutely, you work that into thestory. And it's fun to end with,
like to start with Olester Crowley goinglike, oh yes, the alien
magic's of the fountain of a Barium, And to end with actually, it's
just kind of like a grove ofmushrooms. You know, it's just like
(21:52):
an alien but sometimes one gets reallybig. Yeah, exactly, Yeah,
I think of it. Also,it's like like a Gothic romance, like
Gothic poorror, that kind of thingwhere it's like the thing that survives when
everything else is dead. Like Ihave two different tattoos. There are skulls
with stuff growing out of them.Only one is a Pokemon. Have you
(22:14):
watched Pokemon Concierge. I have not, but you're the second person this week
to suggest it to me. It'sreally cute. That's what I cat is
like, the main character is annoying, and I'm like, it's Pokemon,
the main characters annoying. Did youwatch the original of Pokemon ashes? Really
annoying? Fuck ash, But that'scute. It just visually it is.
So yeah, I've heard anyway,So okay, we're gonna get into the
(22:34):
stuff that I love that I amso glad you had in here because obviously
I would have added it. AndI'm going to talk about certain things that
happens in this but Spooner and asterforget to hang out, yes, deep
in the Hard Texas. So yes, the spoon Astra stuff, basically the
Spooner stuff, right, is thereason I like this episode. I agree,
(22:55):
it's the whole emotional heart of thething up to the point where John
gets murdered. So they have beenaccidentally like they've accidentally stowed away. They've
basically been kidnapped by mistake by Johnand Bishop. So they are now back
in nineteen twenty five Texas and theyget out of the wave Rider. They're
gonna they have to help themselves becauseGideon's been taken offline, et cetera.
(23:17):
You know, Gideon being offline.Yeah, constantly a thing. I like
the moment too where they're both like, can you drive the ship without Gideon?
Like, I don't even have adriver's license? Like, this is
not happened, right, this iswe are the beat dam We need to
go do beating things. We arethe noos. So they get off the
ship and they go walk around.They immediately encounter a dude who's been injured
and a woman who helps him.And you know, that woman happens to
(23:40):
be important. Uh, she doeshappen to be important. She is Gloria
Spooner's mother. And it's it's abig mystery at first, but it's it's
you know, figured out by theend of the episode. But essentially we
reveal in this episode that Spooner isnot from modern day like we thought she
(24:00):
was. She is from nineteen twentyfive Texas, and the giant mushroom Fountain
of Imperium alien time traveled her magictime traveled her into the future and wiped
her mind. I love the factthat sneakily they worked time travel into a
part of this new character's backstory.It's it's total, it's total, you
(24:25):
know. I'm sure they had thisin mind from the beginning, or at
least parts of it. But like, I love the kind of character work,
the fate stuff that is involved insomething like that here, and it's
late in the show you would forgivethem for not but it's really satisfying when
you realize, like, oh,you belong here too, right, Like
to your point, if they hadn'tdone this, I don't think we would
(24:48):
have necessarily missed it because it's notsomething you're thinking about. So the thing
for me was when this happened,when it was her mom and then it
turned out like she had been whiskedaway by the mushrooms, and that to
me was like it was weirdly surprising, Like you know, going into a
show like this, especially given likeprevious seasons, and they add a character
(25:08):
and then the plot and the finaleof the season has a lot to do
with that character, right, orthey add a you know, a mcguffin
or whatever, you would assume thatspooner because she's introduced as being important and
having this specific backstory that that's gonnaget wrapped up somehow in the end of
the season, Like that's going toplay in because of everything we know about
(25:29):
the show in previous seasons, andyet I was still so surprised at the
way it came back around to findingher mom and that it was on earth
and that it was in the past, Like it hadn't had anything to do
with aliens. Necessarily did a littlebit, but mostly with her and not
her mom. It hadn't been analien thing where she was going to find
her mom in the stars somewhere.It was a time travel thing, which
is what the show is all about. And it was really satisfying, like
(25:52):
in that way that like I don'tthink I would have necessarily missed it.
I wouldn't have been like, ohmy god, you didn't explain why what
happened with Spooner's mom, But Iknowing what this is now, like I'm
so glad they decided to go backto it and tie everything together. Yeah,
not leave that thread out there forseason eight or nine when they were
really getting desperate right right now,Yeah, not lead as a desperation thread,
(26:15):
right it was. It was somethingthat they wanted to do, like
a complete story and you know,complete the circle here, and it just
it's so good, it's so satisfying. It's also and to see this is
why I'm not making fun of thetime travel people, but like as a
fan of or someone that's interested inlike the alien induction stories, it kind
of tracks where it's like there isno real quantifying in my mind of like
(26:40):
what an alien abduction is, andlike your mind just like can't comprehend it,
and it fills in the gaps whereit can. Like it makes you
see Little Green Men maybe because you'veseen Little Green Men in you know,
a movie, and that's what makessense to you. So like for her
to be like, ah, youknow, she finds out here it was
a magical mushroom that that pulled herup into the sky, but like for
(27:03):
her to kind of translate that intolike she was a wor the world fans,
so an alien tractor beam abducted herand her mom and like who knows
what happened, She lost time,blah blah blah. Like that all totally
tracks for like that world to me, and it is the cool way to
kind of tie all that. Yeah, and also like having it be a
traumatic episode that leads to what happenedis like you're gonna want to forget that
(27:23):
part, like you're gonna be youblock out. Yeah, your nine year
old brain is gonna block out thefact that you watch your mom get shot
before you got abducted, So you'rejust thinking we both got abducted, and
now my mom is missing, andI know something hard. I have this
feeling something horrible happened to my mom, but I can't figure out what it
was. It must have been thealiens or whatever exactly. And then it
turns out the aliens were actually thegood guys in this sense, and it
(27:45):
was people that were the bad guys. The thing that like the giant mushroom
looks like a flying saucer. Yeah, it's got the tentacles from where the
worlds. And I'm like this alltrack, like this is really cool.
This is what an eight year oldkid's mind would turn this into. It's
it's rad to me. It's reallynice backwards writing. Yeah, And I
mean like they do a really greatjob also with sort of writing her confusion
(28:08):
but also conviction for like, oh, I found my mom, this is
it, this is I'm staying here, I'm fixing the past. That's what's
happening. And it also gives meone of my little like, oh,
they're kind of in love moments inthis episode, which is the you know,
basically Astra being like kind of upsetthat Spooner wants to stay and like
(28:29):
leave her, leave her, andlike like I just found this fringship kind
of thing, and I'm like,oh, I get it. But also
it's it's totally there when like shit'sabout to go down with the oil barons
we've barely talked about but don't matter, and it's like on Astra to get
baby Spooner away from her. Yeah, And there's something so lovely about just
(28:52):
like the trust of like I trustmore than anyone that woman with my younger
self, Like she will not letsomething happen to me, even though,
like you know, she was sorecently a super villain, right, so
she like comes into this as afresh start. It's just such a nice
thing about like redemption and the waythat like these characters can find each other
and have meaningful relationships, even ifit doesn't necessarily end up being romantic.
(29:15):
I do like what they do withspoot Her in the future. It's also
very like it's totally appropriate for thisshow. But just the thought that the
mushroom, that the Fountain of Imperium, these these alien mushrooms are here to
protect Earth. They are keeping Earthsafe from alien invasions. That's why Bishop
wants to kill them. Yeah,and they respect like the innocence and the
(29:37):
trauma that this little girl is goingthrough, and it's like, you know
what, let's put her in thefuture. Let's let her forget about it,
let's get her away from here,you know. Like again, it's
it's totally this show. It's anappropriate level of like benevolent space creature,
you know. Yeah, I meanit's very much the show is like commitment
to humanity almost not like necessarily humanityas a species, but like humanity as
(29:57):
like a inherent part of being aperson. And this idea that like even
an alien creature can like see thatand have it and you know want to
protect it in some way. It'sjust it's just really nice where this really
freaking wacky show about like space,mushrooms and shit is also like, oh
but also everyone loves everyone else.And it used to be about time travel.
(30:18):
It's not really about travel, notreally about fight like tracking down space
fascists anymore. Yeah, I wouldn'tworry about that things it is now that
we've told how much we love allthis stuff. Yes, it's a little
charmed in a bad way when Spoonergoes out to defend her mom and it's
just like I'm gonna I'm gonna feelreal hard at you guys, and my
(30:40):
hands are gonna light up and you'regonna feel bad about it now. From
what I remember, the Spanish CivilWar episode is something similar when the fountain
like which did oh yeah, yeah, yeah, like did something and scared
off. I can't remember anything aboutthis episode unfortunately, but like it it
did something to protect the that kidand like you know, make him able
(31:03):
to help other people and like givehim specific abilities. Like there's a in
a way I like it, butI agree that like it was a little
bit handwavy. Yeah, there's alittle just like the the magic or the
science fiction of it is just likea little c w where like this week,
my hand's glow and I can makeyou feel this, you know,
it's like that. Yeah, Imean her like abilities have been Smallville and
(31:27):
it's supernag and everything else. Likeit's not this is not a point against
it. It's just funny. Yeah. Her abilities have been growing, like
to be able to communicate with thealiens and to be able to speak their
language and understand what they're saying andall that, but like this is so
different from everything else that we've seen, so yeah, it's very much like
a okay, handwavy and then itlike never becomes a thing again. Right,
she kind of sideways gets powers becausebaby her is getting gobbled up by
(31:51):
the giant mushroom and like there's asymbiosis thing happening seemingly between them, but
we're never gonna spell it out andit's not gonna happen against don't worry about
Yeah, but I love all thisSpooner stuff, like it is the emotional
center of this episode, and likefinding out exactly what really happened and why
this happened to her, and likealso coming to grows with the idea that
it has to happen again. That'salways fun to keep happening. Like she
has to let the little kid versionof her end up in the future in
(32:15):
order to survive and in order tobecome the person who is here and who
has helped and who has done allthese things. You know, it's not
the first time that Legends has donethat type of like I have to let
the horrible thing happen yeah, orthe Aerrow Verse in general, Like that's
what Season one of The Flash isbuilt around, but it always kind of
hits. Yeah, I don't thinkit's ever gonna be as good as it
was in season two with Sarah choosingto not fix the world, but we'll
(32:38):
get there when we get there.Yeah, yeah, maybe tomorrow, who
knows, maybe tomorrow. Meanwhile,the Legends have to like nag Kayla on
alien social media to come help them. This is this is aggressively stupid.
It's even for me, it's verymuch. We need to spend five minutes
figuring out a way to get Kaylaback into the picture and to get them
(32:59):
to nineteen twenty. So get themon the ship. We've got to right
out by the way, we're killingoff John. Matt's going to stick around,
but we've got to get rid ofMick here too. We have to
do that too. Like, yeah, Dominic Purcel is gonna leave at the
end of the season, and soyeah, Dominic made some weird social media
posts and seeing the money wasn't good, so he's out. You know,
I definitely missed all the behind thescenes stuff that happened with the cast changes
(33:21):
this season. But because it waslike post me working in entertainment journalism.
So I definitely like just went whooand forgot you watched the show like a
normal here. I didn't write essayon essay about it. But yeah,
so they have to do that too. I'm making up for lost time.
They do have to get very much. So they do have to get Kayla
(33:42):
back here so she can like youknow, get him away too, as
you said. And so he hadall the eggs. The eggs are still
on the ship. They need toget kaya here because they need her ship.
So we're going to make a poston alien and social media bake fake
eggs too, which I was like, yeah, I held you figure this
out, but the fake it reallywas. It doesn't matter. We just
have to get to from here tohere, and we have to spend five
minutes on it, So do itthis way. Don't worry about it.
(34:04):
It's like a tiny bit of levityin an otherwise very serious episode. Two.
Yes it is. It is trulya little too stupid. Oh,
it's definitely I understand where where youhave to do this in this episode.
But the minute like Gary brings outthe ring that is a galaxy post and
like Hill is always on there,like she's gonna see the post and be
all pissed off about it and comeafter the babies. I'm like, oh,
(34:29):
okay, sure, why not,you know, like sure, who
cares? If Ray was still here, we'd build some sort of beacon that
would go out in time, youknow, But we don't have someone to
do that anymore, So let's dothat. We're just using this disc that
is also a phone slash whatever.Yes, again, real easy week for
Katie, you know, like goodfor her, really easy week for all
(34:50):
of them, like they were onset for a day. I do like
the line where they're like, andthat's without a time courier, why do
we even take those off? No, don't even don't ask you know that
that is between Nate and Ava andlike, yep, cool, why not
just hanging a lantern on those Yeah? No, they hang a lantern on
that kind of thing all the time, which I appreciate as someone who nitpicks.
Yep, But yeahs off with thatnonsense, because that does not matter
(35:14):
at all except to help them,like get to the twenty twenty five and
to save the eggs and it getsblown up and he'll be fine on the
next episode, we do have ourour conclusion. Yes, sorry, this
is the end of John. There'san inevitability. There's an uneasy inevitability to
this scene, right, Like weknow going as fans of this show,
(35:36):
and even if you don't know thebehind the scenes crap scene where he's going,
you don't think it's going to endwell for John and for him to
die shortly after Spooner has been abductedinto this thing and like all seems right
with the world, and then hedies and eventually like tricked by Bishop,
(35:57):
right, like Bishop says he's goingto take this potion formula whatever that is,
gonna make him appear to the fountainto be as innocent as someone like
Spooner as a young child, andthey'll give him his power. He knows
John's gonna steal it. John stealsthat, takes it. It works,
but also there's poison in it,so he kills John while he becomes part
(36:17):
of the fountain. Like there's there'sI don't know, it's nicely done.
It's a bizarre way. It's oneof those things where like you could never
have guessed it, but there isthat uneasy inevitability to it. Yeah,
it's like you said, and that'sa good way to put it on easy
inevitability, because like you said,there watching it going like there's only like
you're watching the scene play out,there's only like one way that this is
(36:40):
gonna go. This is very muchas someone's gonna die scene in a lot
of ways. And it also feelscorrect. It's different from feeling right,
but it feels correct, like itfeels like the way that you should write
that, and you should eventually becausewe you know, when he reappears in
the next episode, we see sortof his rebirth final four yeah, yeah,
(37:04):
kind of thing, and it feltcorrect like watching the episode when I
watched it originally, just being like, yeah, that's that's the way you
have to do that. Do youthink he should have wound up in hell
because he seems at peace in thefinal episode. Maybe we should talk about
that whenever we get to that.No, that's fine, I know I
don't think he should wind up inhell, just because two things. One,
(37:29):
this is not his show. PuttingJohn in hell and making that a
thing doesn't seem like it fits thisshow necessarily because this show is also doing
like the funny, ridiculous version ofHell, and not necessarily that's fair.
Two, we've moved beyond that inthe show, so it would feel weird
to suddenly end up back in Hell, and it would feel weird for that,
(37:50):
after all of this, to endup to be where John ends up.
So I think having him like becomepart of the fountain and then be
sort of reborn from the fountain makesmuch more sense and feels more in line
with the narrative we have in theshow versus the narrative that John has on
his own. I think that's fair. Yeah, I don't think that I
was able to articulate that, sothank you. But I also don't have
(38:13):
a problem with like, you don'thave to write him off bye bye bye
damning into Hell. You can.You can write him off another way.
And you're right that he has.He has moved on from that here.
Is he still a bit of abastard? Yes? Absolutely does he does
he regret it and apologize to Spoonerlike that. I think the not as
Spooner Asterix sees me. I thinka really nice gift they give the character,
(38:37):
which is which is a thing thatyou need to do for the audience
sometimes is to let him see herwhen he's dying and there's no like you're
the best thing I ever happened typething. He's in a moment of crisis
of like I killed it, youknow, like that's his last words basically.
But it's lovely that she is therebecause, like, you know,
(38:59):
she is the best thing he everdid. Right, very much. So,
I mean, you had to havethat moment with Astra and at the
same time you have to have thenext episode's moment was sorry, Yeah,
oh totally. And I just thinkthat they did a really good job.
I think everything in the show endsup, for as wacky and ridiculous as
it is, always ends up sowell considered. Yes, there's a lot
of awesome way to say that.Yeah, there's a lot of care taken
(39:20):
in the way that they write certainlike major plot points, and I just
really I always really appreciate it andreally like it. Ridiculousness aside, you
know, the end the episode withthe dead John Constantine and Bishop being our
bad guy for the end of theseason, it's it's it's it's a weird
one did a very melancholy and butagain very satisfying, but it's a weird
way to end a podcast. Shouldwe play some play game. Let's completely
(39:43):
shift our moods like this episode dida couple of times. Yep, I'm
going to keep us in it.Though. My legendary moment is the death
of John Constant and mine is rightbefore it where a little Spooner gets abducted
by a mushroom. Yeah, justcool and as a wrap up to her
so and also it was very coolvisuals. I liked it. There's like
a lot of their VFX budget intothis episode. Again, I love an
(40:06):
episode of Legends too, like thisis this is the narrative whiplash that I
get addicted to with the show,where like, you start that episode and
you go like, no way inthe world could I have considered that this
episode will end with a child beingabducted and time traveled by a magical alien
mushroom. But here we fucking are. Do you have a most valuable legend?
(40:30):
I think we both have the sameone. We both want you go
first. I'll ask you, Okay, it's Spooner, She's just all the
things. I'm just gonna say yougo first because you entered it first into
addossier, But yeah, inarguably itsoner. She's the one doing shit here.
Yeah, very much. So let'splay some bango. Let's play some bingo
(40:52):
again. Congratulations listeners on your winlast time. This is our new card.
Now we only have two from mycount unless you saw something else but
ohit. Yes, meet yourself,shame on me entering it right now,
Yes, meet yourself. With thespooners, we've got John Constantine fire hands,
which Bishop calls out, which Iappreciate. Yeah, and a Gideon
(41:15):
malfunction. Gideon is offline thanks toBishop at the start of this episode.
It's a really easy week for Amy. Yeah, very easy week. And
yeahs an off week. It's aneasy six years for Amy. Let's be
let's be very clear. Let's playsome cars. To say, the timeline
scenarios, you traveled back in timeand found out you came from Blank all
(41:37):
along and rerouting Gideon's protocols will shortcircuit her Blank and leave the ship opened
up the lank. In a surprisetwist, it turns out Blank was actually
Blank the whole time. Got toget more of those two First, what
is that one? Yeah? Isthat the mushrooms? Yes? Yeah?
Is it okay? So? Isit galaxopose or galixipos? Turns out you'll
(41:59):
get the likes on galaxipost with aphoto of Blank. I don't know.
We will truly have to check thevideo. Both seem right and stupid slush
people. There's a lot of mushroomsin here. Yeah, a lot of
mushrooms stuff. Go figure John Constantine'smushroom which I looked ahead on that one.
So forgive me your mom from nineteentwenty five. That thing where a
(42:22):
fountain you're looking for him is actuallymushrooms that are actually magical aliens and a
nagging galaxipost and I have a nineteentwenties oil Barreon who we didn't really talk
about this episode. It doesn't mattermagic mushrooms pread the season is too many
mushrooms and your daughter from the futureperfect? Why not weird one again?
(42:43):
We're like, we're mid in arc. It should have been a two parter,
maybe, like it was a toughone to do cards for, right,
it was, Yeah, I wastough one to do cards for.
I ended up like ripping off acouple of hours and just changing what they
said. Yeah, scarpe in thebottom of the mushroom barrel. But that's
fine very much. So are youready to all, it's your turn.
I am ready to roll. Tricia, do you have the episode? I
(43:04):
do because I was looking something elseup earlier. Okay, rolling for season
Triscia, ready, I'm ready.Here we go season three, Season three
and rolling for episode three fifteen.Look, no, it is not what
is it? Three fifteen is Elvisamazing race? Elvis has a haunted guitar.
(43:30):
Fun. This will be an excitingone. It is a weird one,
so it'll be it'll be fun.Yeah, but it's a standalone it's
a fun one. We get thedeath. Yeah, it's the death Totem.
It's where they figure out there isa death totem. Uh. It's
Elvis's guitar. It's a decent Elvisimpression. Uh. And it's weirdly religious
(43:50):
and I don't remember that, butinteresting, I remember Wally does some stuff.
I remember uh Amaya looking great.Yes. Also, it's the It's
because in the previous episode of thispodcast, we talked about how they stop
doing the thing where the time streamhelps them be like safe from changes in
the timeline, and they started doingThat's what this episode is. It's Trombone
(44:14):
Hero and Josh Grobin, the ratYEP yep, okay, cool, I
look forward to that. This isa really fun, stupid, weird plot
that you can do with a timetravel shout. So let's do it.
Indeed, so let's do It'll befun cool. Well, this has been
a learning curve, it has forus. But again, poor went out
for dearly departed John Constantine. Thankyou for your service to the show.
(44:37):
We'll see it maybe in two weekswho's but until then, don't call us
podcasters were Legends Always hold On ToDC's Legends of Tomorrow is produced by Zach
Moore as part of the Always holdon To podcast family. Listen to Zach's
other great podcasts wherever you're hearing this, and check out even more podcast action
on the Always hold on to SmallvillePatreon page. You can find more legends
(44:59):
good and on social at Legends ofAlways, and feel free to send us
an email at Legends of Always atgmail dot com, hashtag save a hot
to clot and rate and review usin app Please do that, please,
please please you beautiful nerd, youthanks for listening. That woman happens to
(45:31):
be important. She does what chokingon my constantinous yeah underg
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