026: 5x09, Zari, Not Zari

Tough day to be a Zari! Your co-captains tackle one of season five’s best, taking on such hard hitting topics as sprinkle placement, split-screened actors, and hall passes. 

CARDS TO SAVE THE TIMELINE
Scenarios:
• Nothing makes any Zari happier than a delicious, frosted ____.
• The real trick to entering a totem is getting psychotropic help from __.
• “Hemlock! Toadstool! Now I just need a little bit of _____.”
Solutions/People:
• A zombie film crew.
• Three rings that are actually a loom(?).
• A cool, third wave feminist superhero.
• Sara’s hall pass, Dean Winchester. 
• Scrambling for herbs on the forest floor.
• Eating doughnuts in a liminal space.

BINGO
• Jump in the Jumpship
• Two Zaris
• Back to Hell
• The C Word
• DC Deep Cuts
• Gideon Malfunction
• Let’s Do Drugs
• Med Bay
• BEEBO!

Follow us on socials @legendsofalways and send us an email at [e-mail]. 

Matt Truex is a Warner Bros. Discovery employee. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are his own and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Warner Bros. Discovery.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey Tricia, Hey Matt. Weestablished some deep lore Sarah Lance Cannon in
this episode. Oh yes, soI'm gonna pose a related question to you.
Who's your hall pass? Oh goodness, my girlfriend listens to this episode.
Lisens to the show. So let'ssee, I don't have an official
hall pass. Yeah, it's sucha like nineties sitcom thing, it really

(00:23):
is, or that one hall passmovie. I don't I don't know.
I don't think that I should answer. I think I should be safe and
not answer that question. Okay,I think that's probably who is your hall
ask Matt. No, I thinkit's smart to not answer Kristin Kruic and
just move on from that. Idid. I just says a little behind

(00:58):
the scenes personal lore. I waslike debated this morning whether to go out
and buy donuts so I could eatdonuts. Well, you were donut less,
though I am donutless. I decidedI didn't want to find the nearest
Duncan, although I am in Massachusetts, so there are a lot of Duncans.
Yeah, wherever they found the donutson the show too, Like they're
just they're beautiful, They're kicked.They are to donuts. What Ninja Turtles

(01:21):
is to pizza where it's just likethat's what I want every single time.
Yeah, it's like every sprinkle isperfect exactly of sprinkles. They look delicious.
I want one. But this isn'tDC food talk. This is always
hold on to DC as Legends ofTomorrow. I'm one of your co captains,
matter Rex. I'm your other cocaptain, Treshennis, and I'm off
to a great start today. Yes, we are here. We are here

(01:45):
once again to talk about a newepisode, well not a new episode,
new episode of the podcast. Andwe're in season five this time, which
I really love. So we aretalking about Zori not sorry. Season five,
episode nine. Kind of the numberinglike any less you look at is
different. The season five is funkybecause it had the crisis on Infinite has
to be in the season, sosome people count that as episode one and

(02:06):
some people don't. I do so, yeah, some people don't count as
like an episode of the show atall, and I'm like, well,
what come on, it is itis to a degree. I do get
that though, because it is divorcedfrom the season. Like all the other
crossovers were right in the middle ofthe season, and this one is the
first episode, so it's like,Okay, we'll just do this and then
we'll get to the show. Soif you weren't watching the crossovers, this

(02:29):
one's probably much easier to skip,yes, than any of the previous ones.
But yeah, so all the numberingis is funky. So we're for
right now, we're going with Seasonfive, episode nine. Zory not sorry,
I'm a fan of this one,me too. This is this is
our first one too without without Ray, so it is it's like, yeah,
it's a it's a paradigm shift theepisode, you know, but you

(02:50):
don't you don't feel it at all, And it's it's helpful that, as
always, the show has so manydamn characters that, yeah, if you're
not, like if you haven't justwatched last week and you're not feeling that
immediate like loss of him that weprobably were at the time, it's less
noticeable as a standalone episode the waythat we're watching those. Yeah, definitely.
I mean there was a moment inwhen I was watching the episode right

(03:12):
in the beginning where I was like, wait, is is this after Ray
leaves? A season five on Rayleaves? When does Ray leaves? And
they had to like remember, exactlyyeah, and there's like one line from
Sarah just like yeah, but withoutRay, we're still a little like upset
at the moment, you know,like we're still figuring out the team.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah exactly, but like you said,
sorry five oh nine for arguments sake, Sorry not sorry. Aired April

(03:34):
twenty first, twenty and twenty.Such a strange Time to be Alive.
Written by Morgan Faust and Tyrn B. Carter, directed by Kevin Mack.
Ratings point six five million. Thisis the lowest of the season, but
again, it's a weird time.Like I was. You know, I
never watched the show live, butthis is actually a time where I was
like watching it every week on thecw app, the people shit cw app,

(03:58):
because what else where you going to? You know, I was also
watching it on the very crappy cwapp that like didn't save where I was.
I was. It was so rough, But yeah, I was definitely
watching it there because like I neededsomething, some kind of disconnect from the
real world and my really horrible jobat the times is because I was so
busy dealing with COVID stuff. Iunderstand it was work from home and like

(04:24):
I'd watched this on my tablet whileI'm like in front of two other monitors
and yeah, doing dumb auction stuffthat made me insane. Anyway, shall
we run down the team quick?Let's run down the team team rundown Sarah
Ava, Nate, Mick, JohnZaris, both of them, Charlie,
Beerfraud and Sarah not appearing in thisepisode. Gary Green, Yes, indeed,

(04:46):
I enjoy your Munti Python our friendsthere, thank you. Yeah.
So this is a long ass recapgetting us up to speed on where we
are and the current structure of theseries. So we're going after the Loom
of Fate. Turns out that shapeshifter Charlie from last season who joined the
Legends as actually Clotho, one ofthe three Fates. She has two sisters.

(05:10):
They are Lakisis and Atropos. Lakisisis the the weaver who like stories,
and then Adropose is like, I'mgonna kill you. So they're trying
to reform the Loom to take backcontrol of humanity because Clotho Charlie gave them
free will and that is bad Astra, who is the girl that John lost
years ago, who we've talked aboutas an adult on the Legends is not

(05:32):
on the Legends yet, but shehas grown up and she is working with
the fates kind of knowingly, kindof not. But John has promised that
he's gonna like find the Loom andput it back together and then bring her
mother back from the dead. Soshe's like, she's cool right now.
She's not a villain, she's nota friend. She's just kind of there
promises. He is making so manypromises, and he needs to stop.

(05:54):
In other news, after they savedthe world with an amusement park last season,
Sorry one point zero went puff fromthe timeline and was replaced by Zari
two point zer, who was asocial media star and her no longer dead
brother Behrad has joined the team asthough he was always there, which was
so weird And I thought it wasgonna be more difficult to get up to
speed with that, and it wasn't. It was awesome, So I like

(06:15):
him. Oh and also, Mickhad closet sex at his high school re
union and that turned into a teenagedaughter named Leda, who was named after
the guitarist from the Runaways. DidI get everything? I think he did
great. I think he did afabulous job, and I'm so glad that
you're writing the recaps now. Likewe were talking about, this is a
good episode. It is like midplot table SETI thing, but like I
am entertained throughout this entire thing,I am too. And it also like

(06:40):
this is one of those episodes thatI have, over the course of my
life determined like transitionary episodes. Solike the last one, which was I
think Romeo Vijuliet Don of Justice orJustness. Sorry that they they established the
Luma Fate, the idea that it'sthese three rings. We were on that
at Fetch Quest now, but thisis sort of introducing like resetting our villains

(07:05):
for the season. So like wehad been dealing with Astra as A as
a villain, sending out the Encourseand the encore Is as villains, and
now we've sort of left that tothe side, and it's the Fates.
And so now we've we've already metLakeisis and now we're meeting Atropos, who
is the one that's actually like scaryand of course who will be Sarah's other
blonde to fight this season. Andso that's like it's it's an interesting episode

(07:30):
that has to push a lot ofthings from a point that they were to
the point that they need to bein order to do the rest of the
season. These are always, Ithink some of the hardest. They must
be so hard to write. Yeah, you need to just get from this
point that you left off to thispoint that you need to like have everything
and it needs to needs to bea story and fun and feel natural.
But also like this is the funof TV. This is the like we've

(07:54):
we've got a heading for a fewepisodes, then we have to really figure
out what the hell we're doing.We're gonna have to shift it. It
is just that weird. It's thefanfic thing, right, Like you're writing
around things, You're trying to navigatewhere you want to go with the season.
You're trying to make it all feelnatural, even though this is kind
of like you say a reset here, So how do we do that without

(08:15):
feeling completely jarring? And I thinkthey do a great job in this episode
and it helps that there's a likebig fun style like they hit heart humor
spectacle, right like, yeah,you've got humor in this episode. You've
got the spectacle a few times,some nice fight stuff, and then you
certainly have the heart a couple timesin this episode, so it's like,
yeah, like if you're paying attentionto those things, the plot will work

(08:39):
out for you, you know,yeah, exactly. And I just think
they do a great job. Idon't think there are any jarring transitions in
that. I can think of anyseason of Legends, and they usually have
to do one or two per season, Like either they're transitioning from the we've
gotten through the mid part and nowwe need to transition into the third act,
which are sometimes very difficult, andthen they sometimes got these reasons where

(09:00):
like they start out with thinking it'sone villain and it turns out to be
another, or think it's one taskand it turns out to be something else.
Yeah. So so I really likedthis episode and I am I'm happy
and ready to get into it.Yes, well, let's jump in Lord
of the Looms here. We've talkedabout it a lot, but but again,
this episode really like sets up what'sgoing on that these these were the

(09:22):
fates, that that Charlie has beenthe faith the whole time. And then
we've got the Cases and Atropos,who are obviously Greek lore but also a
DC Vertigo thing, like like sandGame, sand Gaman. I almost said,
Neil Gaiman used them in Sandman veryfamously, and I'm sure they've popped
up in other places. Yeah,I'm sure. And and the idea of

(09:46):
the fact that Sandman also like livesinside the DC universe is always so wild
to me because it's so like sodifferent and so offset. But then you've
got like John Constantine popping up orswamp Thing or swamp Thing. Yeah,
like just these little characters like popand it's like, oh right, like
does Superman exist, right? Orlike John Deagan, you know, like
like there's there's a lot of charactersthat that he kind of stealthily used.

(10:11):
Yeah, in Sandman he came in, not unlike how they stealthily use people
in this show. Like the nextepisode has Enchantress in it, and it's
like, yeah, sure, whynot. You know, like they're just
those little nuggets that really tie itinto the DC lore that's ongoing, because
so much of the show is,by design at this point a bit separate
from it. You know, yeah, very much so, And I think

(10:33):
that works in its favor. SoI'm obviously coming at it more from the
Greek pathology obsessive child that I was, and that's always really fun. So
I like seeing different depictions of thefates, and this idea of them,
this one, I think, isa lot more villainous, like outwardly villainous
than I think are the kinds thatI prefer, which are like they are

(10:56):
totally neutral parties, like they don'tgive a shit, like this is my
job. This is what I'm doing, and you don't get to tell me
what to do. They don't killyou or let you live out of malice
or compassion, like it's just likethis is the job. Yes. I
also was recently thinking about the PercyJackson vision because the series just ended on
Disney Plus as of this recording andthe chapter title in which they appear,

(11:22):
and I think I want to saythe third book is three old Ladies Knit
the Socks of Death. That's cute. I know nothing of Percy Jackson.
You should. The books are actuallypretty great. They are young, but
they are pretty great. Sure,I mean, I'm not above that.
That's fine. Strong recommend, especiallyfor Legends fans understood. We just got
through like the live action Airbender series, Avatar series, and now we're jumping

(11:48):
back into the animated thing, andI've been watching a lot of supernew the
team in Twitch, which is tosay, I don't mind the young media,
you know, Oh no, itbeing I once again turned people to
Stargirl as a really good example.I have to finish Stargirl. I need
to finish it too, But Ireally, I really enjoy it. But
so so the the episode begins kindof randomly, Yeah, back in the

(12:13):
seventies, rip the smell. Yeah, starts with the death and ends with
the death. This episode again,they get it, not that we care
that much about the smell, butit is funny to me that, like
we established this concert venue, thesmell, the whole idea of it in
season like early season four, wecome back to it here, we come
back to it at the end ofthe season, and then we have to
come back to it in the middleof season six. I'm like, they

(12:37):
really they either like I hope thiswas easy for them to put together as
a production, because what a painin the ass to keep coming back to
this, keep coming back to thisspecific set, and like the way it
has to be dressed and all literallythe same night for most of it,
not this one. This is liketwo days later or whatever, but still
right, still, it's it's stillit seems like it would be a lot
of work. Hopefully it wasn't toomuch. So yeah, we start off

(13:01):
with the Smell getting murdered and thenwe cut to our heroes on the wave
Rider and our first so our Aplot is the search for the second ring
Yellowship, Yes, the Fellowship ofthe Rings and uh, then we have
a B and a C plot thatget like they are totally different tones from

(13:22):
the Yes, the A plot,but that's like the show, like I
get we've been watching a lot ofpsych recently too. Sorry, it's just
been in my mind because I'm like, yeah, in tone, that show
is kind of similar to what they'redoing here in Legends, where it's like
the dramedy but more on the comedyside. Yeah, but then the thing

(13:43):
that addicts me to Legends is like, yeah, but they'll hit you hard
sometimes, you know, like withsome of this stuff. And and and
do the more action adventury plot line, which is totally what this Fellowship thing
is. Right, Like, we'vegot we've got John doing John stuff and
go and Rogue off to British Columbia, which I always love when the show

(14:03):
has to go to British Columbia.Look, we're spending a lot of money
on sets this year, certainly we'regoing back and they they buy it.
In the plot in this episode,yeah, we get to Yeah, and
then Sarah Charlie. Sarah and Charliego along with him and we run into
the set of Supernatural. We wantinto Baby, Yes we do. We

(14:24):
do run into Baby. And youhave a question in here that I agree
with, which is did they askor did they let them know? Who
knows? Because I was like atfirst, I was like, oh,
well, that must be the actualcar that they used, you know,
Like, so I guess they borrowedit from the set. And I'm like,
wait a minute, that is areal car. They could have rented
it from anybody, Yeah, andjust gotten it there to their set.

(14:48):
So and it's not like we seeany of the actors. It's not like,
you know, later on we seethe zombie version of the crew,
but they're just wearing like clearly madefor this show, yeah, supernatural swag.
So I'm like, I don't know, but it's fun. It's it's
a cute idea. I I agreethat it's it's also fun because you know,

(15:09):
a lot of the people who arewatching Legends are probably also watching Supernatural.
Yeah, it's so it's just funny. Also, it's like, I
think this is was this the lastseason Supernatural? Yeah? So was it
announced at the time that it was. I feel like it was. I
I don't remember, I think so. But also Supernatural went on like way
too long, right, it wasthe fifteenth season, which is what they're

(15:33):
referencing him. Yeah, I thinkthey got a farewell season. I think
they knew going they did know theydid, they knew going into there was
the last season. I really likedthe first five seasons of Supernatural, but
I like that they just tie thatinto It's fun because it's it's CW stuff.

(15:54):
It's probably pretty easy to do becausethey all kind of shoot around each
other. I remember like a videoyears ago when Smallville and Stargate were on
at the same time and they wereall shooting around each other, and then
they also were all friends and theyplayed hockey against each other, so like
all the different teams play hockey againsteach other. I think the Supernatural guys
were mentioned in that too, becauseit was still on back then, like

(16:15):
they used to do in Los Angeles. Where like all the TV shows had
like their softball leagues. Yeah,yeah, exactly. And so that's kind
of fun because there's all these liketechnically American shows shooting in the same place
and they're kind of sharing a relativelysmall amount of resources, I think,
so you have to you assume thatthey all, you know, bump into
each other. So this is justkind of a fun This is probably,

(16:36):
honestly, probably fun for the crewprobably and specifically they bump into each other
in these woods, which like,again, we just watched the Avatar show.
They're in these woods. Meanwhile,the Legends are running around, Meanwhile
the Winchester Boys and Flashes talking toa gorilla. And years ago we had
you know, Clark tom Welling runningaround and probably bumping into Clelli a moulder.

(16:57):
You know. Yeah, we've seenmore shit go down in these damn
woods than anywhere else. Yeah,there's that is funny. When you watch
a lot of Canadian TV, youdo start to see these same locations pop
up every once in a while.It's like, oh, the I was
just watched I've been rewatching The hundredand I just they had an episode where

(17:18):
they're in the power plant set.That's in like every single thing, including
Smallville, Small Villa and Batwoman andthe Legends teaser and blah blah blah.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, sothat was that's always It's so like distinct,
yes, and yet it pops upeverywhere. So yeah. So they
are walking around in the lovely woodsof Vancouver and they get attacked. Yes,

(17:38):
they get attacked first by Atropos,right, yes, and then zombies
and then a Right, but atAtropos I love, by the way,
it's not even my legendary moment,but Sarah Lance coming up to her immediately
and going after a god or whatever. DEMI good, what are they?

(17:59):
They're god? I think they're differentlyconsidered gods. Yeah. So yeah,
like that, that's very Sarah like, just to be like, Okay,
there's fighting to be done. Iam the fighting person. I go fight
you. Right, It's kind ofit hits the the Buffy nerve in me
a little bit where I'm like,yep, awesome, Yeah, no,
it totally does. And then butalso like when you consider where Sarah is
in her journey, like they justrebooted the world whatever at this point,

(18:25):
Yeah, this is nothing. Thisis fine, which also comes back when
like when Atropos asked her, like, what are you, I'm like paragon
of destiny, bitch, right,that's my question. That's why she can
survive this because like the whole thing, and you tell me if it's from
mythology, but like Atropos can likeburn people up from the inside when she
reveals her true self to them,like yeah, your true form or whatever.

(18:48):
I think it's sort of widely accepted. I don't know if it's in
like the original myths and stuff,but it's in a bunch of other like
media that uses the Greek myths.Gods can appear in any form, but
if they appear in their true form, you die, Like you're gonna freak
out, your brain melts, likeyou're dead immediately. So because weird drawings
of angels as described in the Bible, that's what's in Nope or whatever you

(19:10):
know, like that right, right, So like so yeah, there there
are a lot of accepted like ideasof God, so that if they appear
in their true form, you justyou burn from the inside out and you
are dead and no coming back fromthat. So yeah, that's basically like
that's that's established as as what happensbecause uh. I think Charlie mentions it
at some point and then Sarah juststares right into her soul. But yeah,

(19:33):
it is is paragona destiny stuff andlike this woman has died how many
times? Right, like the pit, you know, right, like I
have expected that to be the jokeright where it's like where Charlie's like,
I thought you were dead and sheends up saying like, oh, yeah,
me too. I'd be like,yeah, not the first time,
not the third time. Oh thatwas nothing before. Yeah. So but

(20:00):
this first fight in the woods islike, okay, she's fighting a god,
and yet the focus is very muchthe stupidness of John looking for stuff
in the woods. Yes, he'slike he's looking to make a spell,
and he's like, don't worry.The forest is a natural park. Is
that where this line was? Well, no, that was later when Nate

(20:21):
finds him bleeding out in the woods, But this one is when Sarah is
fighting Atropos and she goes, Icould use some help here, and he's
just like yeah, audit drops tothe ground, starts like crawling around and
picking up and just like eating shitand some blood. Oh great, great,
I have blood now, kiss Ohgreat? Some of your blood Sarah
just splashed on me. So I'mgonna lick my hand, yeah, naturally,
rose naturally, and and do somefog stuff at her. Basically,

(20:47):
this is like such I just Ilove the We've talked about it constantly.
We're gonna keep talking about it.I think in almost every episode, the
balance of this very serious fight thatis happening and this very dumb thing that's
happening around it, and that's whatthe camera is focusing on, which it's
just it's such a it's total mismatch, and yet it works really well.
And I just I this is oneof my favorite scenes in the whole episode.

(21:07):
Especially helpful in an episode like this, We're we're gonna get kind of
two versions of Sarah fighting Atropos.Yes, and frankly, we've seen her
fight how many goddamn people at this, right, Like, we don't need
to see every blow that is thrownhere, you know, right, Like,
this isn't a special fight like thereare there are really cool stunts that
they do like in other episodes,and this is just for them fighting.
It's just a sort of show thatthey're kind of evenly matched and that John

(21:33):
is finding the stuff in the woodsand the woods are fun and that sort
of it allows them to do thething after with John saying the woods are
an natural apothecary. I do lovetoo here that like you know, it
it ends with John going after Atropostsand saying, like, Charlie and Sarah
get out of here, and likeat this point Charlie has been reduced to

(21:55):
like little girl version of Charlie ora maaya I guess, you know.
But but just like the presence ofher sister and the shame and the inferiority
she feels with her there, Ijust thought that was lovely that like she
naturally just like shape shifts into ascared little girl and I'm like, oh,
that's cool. Yeah, it's it'sthat's fun from a character perspective,

(22:18):
it's fun from a performance protective butI agree, it's like this character has
been essentially in hiding for how manycenturies, right ran away from right the
Skyrocks. Since before the Skyrocks andthe bird people, you know, she's
been she's been hiding from them.But she's also I think a little bit
ashamed of the things that she's done, even though like she agrees like she

(22:40):
believes that it is important and itwas the right choice. But she's definitely
been in hiding and Ben running andBen imprisoned. You know, all this
stuff has happened in that the timesince, and it's just it is interesting
to see her. They evolve thischaracter interestingly over the whole two seasons that

(23:00):
she's there, Like, she's notthere that long, and yet you get
all of these different facets of thischaracter up through who she is by the
end, you know, and it'sit is cool to watch that play out
and to like sort of see thatand actually we don't I don't think have
it listed in our lovely little outline, but I love her little speech about

(23:25):
like when Atropose like confronts her andis like, you know, all but
you gave them free will? Wasthat worth it? Blah blah blah,
And she's like, oh, yeah, in that time, they invented you
know, punk rock, and allwomen held the vote, right, yeah,
women got the vote. They inventedpunk rock also, those things happened
all in the twentieth century and thenbut she's like, you know, they

(23:45):
also invented the nuclear bomb and warand all of a sudden's like, yeah,
that this is such a running themeof Legends, like an interesting running
theme of a time travel show,right about free will and destiny, so
that so many times the thing thatthey are wing is about how much control
do we have over fate and destiny, which is part of why Sarah as

(24:07):
the paragran of destiny, but likethe sphere of aside to where do we
decide to preserve the bullshit that humanityhas done for the sake of later things
or whatever? You know. Yeah, it's such a like a long term,
a seven year long running theme andrunning like moral argument that they're making,
where like there aren't any neat andtidy answers and you just make the
best decisions you can today. Butlike it has to start with them destroying

(24:29):
the time Masters, and then whatSarah decides to do with the Sphere of
Destiny, and then you know,fighting a time demon, and you know
all of this, these things likefinding loopholes in history through Zari and like
all of these it's just it's socool how it builds, and I just
was ladding the show for all thesethings. But like, this is one
of the things I really like aboutseason five, I think, is this

(24:49):
sort of discussion that they're having aboutfate and free will and the good things
and the bad as highlighted in theMuseum of Bad Decisions later on Decisions and
even the TV episode of like ifyour life is perfect but it's not actually
live, you know, that's kindof the matrixy question. But yeah,
like all of this is happening inthe season. It's really fun. It's

(25:10):
really fun plus fates so well,speaking of fun, yes, speaking,
we've got a's day of fun.Let's jump into the ship log here,
because basically the whole making Ava Seastory is one ship log. Yeah,
it basically is, and it's suchtotal difference to the rest of the episode.

(25:33):
It's like, we have we're gonnahave these people do this, and
we're gonna have these people do this, and we have leftovers. What do
we want to do with them?Right? We have leftovers and maybe room
for like three scenes, right,and like and like we need to deal.
We need to have Nig deal withus having a kid thing as quickly
as possible. So, yeah,Meg found out he had a daughter,
and she hates him. She doesbecause he wasn't there for most of her

(25:56):
childhood, which also not really hisfault. He didn't know about her,
butah blah blah, let's insert you, Mick into her childhood memories and make
her love you that way. It'skind of what ripped it for me,
and that didn't fuck me up atalso fine, Yeah that was kind of
like when she's like, yeah,it's basically just what ripped it for me,

(26:18):
and that's where I was waiting for, Like, and we like that
now you know, we're okay withYeah, everybody's okay. But but they
do that. They like he's therewhen her mother comes home with her from
the hospital. He's there for toothpulling and blah blah blah. And they
make this little, uh scrap bookbasically of memories, and she still hates

(26:42):
him because you can't parent halfway becauselike they did the montage and apparently the
second the camera cut in the montage, they you know, time couriered out
of there. Yeah, and yeah, it's it's so good in this teeny
tiny amount, Like this thing takeswhat like five minutes of the episode.

(27:03):
Oh, we cut it all together, We cut it all together. Yeah.
So it's like it's such an interestingamount of character development that we get
from them or at least like insightsinto the characters that we get from them,
sort of like, you know,Mick figuring out how to be a
dad, the fact that he wantsto be like he does want to be
a dad, he just doesn't wantto be bad at it, and you
know, figure finding out that likethis isn't the way to do it,

(27:23):
and just it's just this such aninteresting fun way to use these two characters
who have nothing else going on inthis episode until the end. Yeah,
and it's it's just a good timein the middle of all the serious Yes,
I agree, I think it's Ithink it's fun, but also just
it it's telling how different the toneis here. I think just because we

(27:45):
have so few scenes with them,we have so few minutes on screen that
it's just like we can't get intosomething too hard here. No, but
we also need to sort of establishthat what their relationship is so that we
can do the next thing, youknow, and the various the you know.
Over this course of this season,he gets to know his daughter and
like you get to see Mick asa dad and it's fun and I really

(28:07):
like it. So then the othermain relationship that we have going on,
and this is the like emotional coreof the episode. Yeah, also funny
as hell. Yeah, it hituntil it's not. Yeah, it's so
funny until it's very not funny.Is Zori? And also Zori and Bahat.
How do you feel about this?I love everything that happens here.

(28:30):
First of all, I love howthey're doing. I remember being really excited
about this watching this episode for thefirst time of going like, oh,
okay, this is kind of thefirst time I accepted. Like, she
wakes up in bed with Nate andthe energy is so off, obviously because
she like slept walk into there,like it kind of kind of flannel.
Zori is starting to to take overa little bit, kind of kind of

(28:53):
monkey shiner a little bit, youknow, and she can't figure out why.
And just like the tone of whenshe wakes up in bed with Nate
was kind of the first time I'mlike, oh, okay, we're never
going to do this. That's fine, Like this is a completely weird Like
the show respects this character's autonomy andthat she isn't just like a version of

(29:15):
the other woman that we knew,you know, Like I like that a
lot about this. Yeah, they'rethey're basically no pun intended putting to bed
the idea that these two are goingto be together, and you know,
instead, this is a very newcharacter. This is someone who's gonna have
different relationships on on the series.And also I think we're definitely still getting
to know this version of Zori aslike as like a whole person. Like

(29:37):
right now, gonna say, she'sstill kind of a punchline. Yeah,
shes still kind of punched. She'sbeen on the ship for a little while
and she's been useful certainly, butit's like she's still so different that we
haven't really established a way in toher. And this is very This is
like sort of ore the Zori thatwe know and love, sort of like

(29:57):
putting her stamp of approved on thenew version of her, even though it's
even though it's so different. Yeah, so I love all the hauntings of
Flannels too. She wants to bewith Nate, she knows how to mess
with Gideon. We get Katzari fora second, donuts, She's ad Jason
Bourne at video games. You know, like all this stuff is really fun
to see. Yeah, that Ihad forgotten until I saw your note about

(30:21):
it, that the cat thing hadhappened even though I loved it when I
was watching it, Yeah, soquick and over. She just walked in
the room going Miamia. And likethe fact that Katzari is still such like
a big part of this character eventhough it was one episode. Yes,
totally, but then that like onceBayrod gets a sniff of this and and

(30:41):
Nate realizes what's happening too, likethe two of them try to try to
help her, Like there's this funscene where it's the end of it,
but like, clearly bear out itjust back to the future part two all
over a board to explain what happened, and you see like the diverging timelines
and Hayworld circled and things like theDragon Girl or whatever. And I'm like,
oh, that's so funny, LikeI kind of want to pause and

(31:03):
see what's on that board and seehow they figured it out. But I
also respect this show where it's justlike we're in season five of a time
travel show that you know this legitimatelydoesn't make sense. Nobody cares. You
understand what's happening here, right,and you were there when it happened,
so you know what's going on.We're just up like bringing her up to
speed. So the bear ound stuffis great. It's also a little bit
sad because he's still I mean,they're all oblivious to the fact that he

(31:27):
was dead in the original timeline andit's not until the end of the season
that they remember everything. Yeah,and so like, first of all,
there's some sadness in the fact thatZari's been forgotten, the original Zori,
and but there's a lot more Ithink, like it's sort of like a
melancholy feeling, as if you werewhen you're watching him, like get super

(31:48):
excited and talk about how, oh, she was probably a legend and like
we we shared the totem. Allthree of us were like super cool.
Yeah, we were all friends andit was like we had a great time.
We're going on a venture and savingthat you probably helped to save the
world more than once. And it'slike you were not there because she was
only doing that because you were dead, and it's like and that's those those

(32:08):
things hit a couple of times overthe course of this episode, like we
get that first twinge of like,oh, yeah, like this is that's
not what it was like, andthat's kind of depressing because we've now grown
to really like this guy that wehadn't had before, and he doesn't know
that he was dead in the originaltimeline, and now Zari's going to go
into the Totem and find out messentially, and it reminds our Brains that,

(32:30):
like he's supposed to be dead,you know, quote unquote is supposed
to be dead, so that whenit starts happening, when when you realize
he's gonna die later on in theepisode, it feels it feels faded,
it feels correct, you know,like it's just it's smart writing to bring
that back earlier in this episode.Yeah, it feels like the reason you
include him in the season, right, totally to do that. Yeah,

(32:52):
But anyway, she wants to kindof like connect, I guess, figure
out what's going on with this,So he comes up with the idea of,
like, why don't you go insidethe totem? This is the first
time anyone's gone into the totem,right right, Well, Flannels sorry,
I guess, yeah, like Flannelssorry went into the Totem at one point
and then that's but I don't thinkit was only one time previously, and

(33:13):
then now we're doing it, Likehe's saying that he's done it a bunch
of times. But one of thethings for me is also it's not just
that she wants to know what's goingon, it's that she's kind of worried,
and she sort of voices those worrieswhen she gets into the totem that
like this previous version of her wasso cool, right, And that's a
that's a fun little vulnerability for thischaracter, because like she's supposed to be

(33:36):
cool, Like she has an empirebasically, yeah, you know in the
world, like she's super popular onsocial media and like, but she's sort
of realizing that that was a littleempty m hm, and this was this
cool third wave feminist superhero lady thatwas the version of her. I love
that one exactly. Like there's thisthere's this cool version of her that that
in her head, she's thinking ofwho this person might have been, and

(33:59):
she's you know, now she's gonnago She doesn't realize she's gonna go meet
her, but she's gonna go meether, right, go take a look
with the help of some laoga roots, so shout out to Sambaizy, but
yeah, off she goes, andlike this scene is so touching to me.
Tala is incredible in it to tolike a lot of actors do this,

(34:22):
especially in the weird genre shows thatwe watch, but it is still
a magic trick to me to havethe same actor on set or on screen
talking to you know, you know, stand ins on either side, Yeah,
and giving this incredible performance and creatingtwo different characters. Yeah, and
they it's so impressive when it worksreally well, and it usually does.

(34:43):
Honestly, most of the time,it's not the performance that gives it away.
It's more like the effects. Yeah, try to like work with these
two characters. But yeah, likeanyone's ability to craft multiple characters that seem
so different even though they look thesame, is always fascinating, and it's
always like really awesome to watch theas class and this of course is orphan
black of course. Yeah, whereyou genuinely forget that that's the same actress

(35:06):
also a masterclass of effects and thatshow like that everything's clicking there. Yeah,
Yeah, that's perfect. So ifyou love this type of thing and
you haven't watched that show, dothat. This is just NonStop episode full
of recommendations of other things. ButI don't I don't mind it. Let's
keep going so yeah, and AlisonHannigan, I'm Buffy now, Like that
was a she was great at it, but the effects weren't there Yeteahs,

(35:28):
we're not there yet. I So, I really love this scene. It's
so simple and yet it's like thisnice we get to touch base with Tsari
that I loved Tasori one point zero, like so so much and she's gone
now and it's a bummer, butlike we get to touch base with her.
We had to see that she's notlike she didn't totally proof. She

(35:50):
just ended up in the totem andmaybe there's there's possibility that we could see
her again and we could have thischaracter again. I don't know what's going
to happen in the future. Matt. We haven't watched those episodes. We've
never seen another episode with Sorry,those threads have not been spun yet,
not at all. We haven't donealmost the season finale of the season already.

(36:12):
But yeah, so it's like it'snice to do that, and it's
it's nice to see both of theiropinions of each other and like, yeah,
like these it's just it's fun andalso like so sad and so happy
at the same time. Yeah,you said it perfectly earlier that like it's
it's Flannel Sari giving the stamp ofapproval to new Tzari. Yeah, and

(36:34):
it's such a nice way to tellthe audience like move on, she's fine,
she's out there, she'll probably popup. We've still got Tala,
but like, this is our girlnow. Yeah. And it also to
me informs the strength that she hasat the end of this episode two,
where it's just like it I obviouslyyou know she's on her own journey or

(36:58):
whatever, but I do think writingwhy they were thinking like let her see
what she used to be, andmaybe that gives her a little a little
more strength to do what she hasto do for the rest of the season
and almost like a little more confidencethat she can be this other person too,
like she has that inside of her. These are just two different possibilities
of the same person, and that'sreally cool, and it's nice to see

(37:21):
different possibilities of people and what theycould become and to end up with something
that's a combination of these factors.Because you know, this story went through
the horrible like post apocalyptic hell,not really post apocalyptic, dystopian kind of
hell, and then this the Sorrytwo point zero has had you know,

(37:42):
the sort of like charmed life whereher whole family is still alive and she
gets to argue with her brother andyou know, do these things that she
comes to see is kind of moresuperficial, and then she has to deal
with real reality, real realities,the realities of you know, living on
a timeship and doing the things thatthey do, all those real things.
Yes, the heavy the heavy dramaof the heavy drama of it. Yeah,

(38:04):
part portion of this show totally,yes, And you know she's she's
time trip and in the in thetotem, but there are still things going
on outside the whole the whole Tarazzifamily really stepping up in this episode.
They never mentioned that they changed herlast name. Yeah, are we just
we just throw that up to GreenArrow specter, right? I guess I

(38:30):
don't whatever, just machinations of timeor whatever, because when she's originally introduced
with sorry Toms and that now it'ssorry to Razi, But also was Tama's
them hiding a bit more like wasthat them like passing to not get found
by arcas very possible? I haveno idea. I don't think they ever
established that that's always kind of howI've read it just retrospectively, but yeah,

(38:54):
and I don't I have no idea. I just know that that was
her original name and they changed it, and I was so confus used for
like a couple of episodes of likewait was that was that always it?
Yeah? Anyway, anyway, againby Rod kind of protecting her while she's
on her vision quest here and Atropostcomes in and at first he he is,

(39:16):
you know, reluctantly gives her thering that they have to spare.
Sorry, yeah, like tries herthreatening. Zari is like give me the
ring or you know, she dies, and he's like all right, fine,
here's the ring. But then okay, now I'm gonna fight you because
you've sort of walked away and nowI think I have the upper hand,
which oh my god, you donot you do not. Little funny thing

(39:36):
here though, where like Atropost caesarslike you share blood. That's your sister
pretty, and I'm like, everyone'spretty. It's a c W. It's
so jarring to me when someone callsout like, oh, that's an attractive
person. It's like, yeah,you know, that's why they're on television.
Line from cat grant and the theoh the attractive reverse Yeah yeah,

(39:58):
yet likable cast of a or somethinglike that, non threatening, racially diverse,
something attractive c ws some version ofthose words together the first world's finest,
Yes, and in world's finest thatwas that was I thought that was
always funny of those A nice callout. But yeah, So he tries
to attack her, and that doesnot go well because she is a Fate

(40:20):
and you are not a fighter,and she can see she sees the matrix
and sees like, you're not supposedto be here, right, Like,
she pulls out like his thread andshe's like, you're not supposed to be
here. You're incorrect. We willwe will fix this, Like no,
what was it? No more somethingfate m no more hiding from fader Like
sure, yeah, something like that. I don't remember the line. I

(40:43):
remember the line either, But she'spulling out his thread as the ship starts
sparking in the background. I wasjust like, oh, this is this
is a drama to the visuals ofthis too, like this looks really cool.
It looks really cool. I likethat the thread is actually more of
a chain. I don't know why. I just kind of like sort of
the rigidness of it, and yeah, it almost looks like the Lasso of
Truth or something. Yeah, youlike the way it cuts. I just

(41:05):
for some reason, I like thatas a design choice. It's just cool.
And this happens like right as Charlieis running in, right, yes,
yeah, Charlie and Sarah come insee see you know, the thread
get cut and Barrod fall Atropos runtsoff and that's where like I love too,
like they are co captains Eva andSarah at this point, but like
I love Sarah just being like,get the ship in the air. But

(41:28):
what no, just do it,you know, like she's got a plan.
Yeah, trust her. She's stillkind of out ranks you a little
bit, like just she's calling rankat this point, like go with her.
Yeah, And also like just theI like the way they work together.
So yeah, like you get theship in the air, We're doing
this right now, She's still onboard, doesn't matter, go yeah,
And then she runs out and theyend up in our lovely cargo Bay Entrancy

(41:50):
area for an interesting fight. Ithink it's super fun. First of all,
I love Sarah's got the hell weapon, She's got what is his name?
Gankhs Kan that's where that's from.Yeah, she's going after him with
that, but it's it's a funfight to me, where like at some
point she triggers Gideon to open upthe cargo bay door there and it is

(42:15):
the it's suddenly like they're all hangingon like after posts, hanging on to
Sarah's leg, she's hanging onto theship, and it is the type of
playing that like my friends and Iused to play on the playground or like
yeah, like you know at home, it's just like we're about to fall
out of the hall. You know, like probably watched Air Force one too
many times, but it's just likethere's something so playful about that type of

(42:39):
action scene that I just I reallyresponded to here that And I also love
the move that they end up doing, Like it's not Sarah who gets her
like kicks her out of the plane, it's Charlie with this like really fun
grabs Sarah's arm, grab the sword, swing down, slice her arm off,
send her out. Yeah, Solike that was just a it's not
necessarily what you're expecting, and Ihave like little surprises like that that are

(43:00):
also it's Charlie has been as yousaid earlier has been sort of this little
girl almost and then the face ofher sister, and now she's taking a
stand and doing something active to saveeveryone. And so again she's like that,
you can't, we can't fight this, like there's no fighting this type
thing, like he's dead, You'redead. It's it's over. Yeah,

(43:21):
but you're right. This is Yeah, it's like she's taking back a little
bit of that control. And Ithink it's it's very subtle and very small,
but it's very nice. Yeah,with a big like Fates a bitch,
ain't it? Like, Yeah,Fate's a vision. Is really is
a great line too, and greatdelivery. I love Charlie so much.
It's like, you know, seasonlong Fetch Quest. Plot wise, it's
a win. We have both ringsat the end of this episode because of

(43:42):
the way she cuts her hands herhands. Yeah, she gets two rings.
Yeah. And then immediately back tothe tragedy of this, which is
having to see sorry wake up already, like Nate and Ava have clearly been
crying. They're going to try tobreak it to her, but they they
don't have to run. This bodyis right behind her, and it's lovely.

(44:04):
We don't have lines sound kind ofcuts out. There's this weird fade
where like at first she she likekind of collapsed on the stairs there and
the bridge, and and Ava andSarah are there, and then they both
kind of like fade out over time, and it's just like a nice way
to show like she's been morning andsitting here and can't figure out how to

(44:25):
move or what the next step shouldbe. And at some point brief which
is very real, and at somepoint in that time, like they've moved
his body because that's where it started, and like like she is just there
alone, just dealing with what justhappened. And now it's like, oh
something, this is what I meantby like the reality of sort of living
in a timeship and doing this allthe time. Is like now she's suffered

(44:45):
this giant loss that the previous versionof her character had already suffered, and
now we get to see how shedeals with it, and it's by going
to John and yelling at him andyou're going to fix this, I'm making
You're making more promises now, John. Yeah. And again this is like
her taking that power right because like, well, now I'm going to be

(45:05):
the badass and I'm going to stickto you like Lou every second of the
day until we get my brother back. Let's go like this is happening.
Yeah, cut to black. Yes, great episode, great episode, and
a great way to propel us intothe getting the next one, figuring out
how to use the loom all thatfor the end. Yeah. I don't
do this much for the show becauseof how we watch and blah blah blah.

(45:28):
But like I immediately started the nextepisode and got like halfway through it
the other night because I'm like,yeah, my god, let's go.
We're on the run now. Wegot to get pay Rode back. Yeah,
Tricia, can we play some games. Let's play some games. Cool?
What's your legendary moment? So Ilike the one that you're gonna say,
but for a variety, I'm goingto go with John scavenging for plants
while Sarah fights to God because it'sfunny, yep, and it's kind of

(45:52):
seem funny but cool for me,Sarah holding on for dear life like it's
Air Force one, and Charlie swingingon with the kid off my plane line,
and then if we go yeah MVLfor me though, it's gotta be
the Csari's I know, like forthe most part, you know, sorry
two is kind of trying to figureout, like she's a little bit lost

(46:15):
and whatnot, but it is stilllike she's got the power at the end
of the episode, and just seeingthem interact and and the resolution of these
are two separate people now is verycool to me, is what this episode
is for me. I have kindof two. So it's Charlie because she's
the one sort of propelling the storyforward finding the loom pieces and then she's
the one who actually ends up gettingatropos off of the ship. Or Sarah

(46:37):
because she's the only reason anyone's stillalive. In generally and in every episode
forever, Sarah is the reason everyone'sstill alive Timeline. Yeah, I was
a little I was light on theground with I think we both were.
But yeah, I definitely only haveone scenario. Yeah, my scenarios were

(46:58):
nothing makes any czar. You're happierthan a delicious frosted Blank. And the
real trick to entering a totem isgetting psychotropic help from Blank. And I
have hemlock toadstool. Now I justneed a little bit of Blank. And
as always, I you know debatethe how good these are is with Alister
Curley's get Took on a Ring,whether we can do pop in a zombie

(47:24):
film Crew three rings that are actuallya loom, a cool third wave of
feminist superhero and I have Sarah's hallpass Dean Winchester scrambling for herbs on the
forest floor and eating doughnuts in aliminal space do we How do you feel?
As the Sarah Lance expert, I'llsay about her about her Dean Winchester

(47:45):
obsession, like you've watched more Supernaturalthan me. I know, I know
the characters like like does this?Does that track for you? Or is
that like someone on the show hasto be a fan and it can't be
Charlie. You know that tracks forme. I think is the right choice
of the two brothers, just becausesam stuff annoys me sometimes us and yeah,

(48:08):
but also I like that we sortof subtly re establish Sarah's bisexual even
when she's in a relationship with awoman. Yeah, that's totally fair too.
I was thinking that while watching theepisode. I was like, oh,
yeah, I like that they areThey remind us in subtle ways that
she likes both right, right?She is not just she is not just

(48:28):
gay now, she's not just straight, you know, like yeah, yeah,
she is not one thing, itis she has multiple things. And
one of those things is having acrush on Deean Winchester, which I get.
There is so much bingo. Let'stalk about bingo. Yeah, so
this this episode really kind of blewour minds. With bingo. We have
in one single episode of the show, jump in the Jump, Shit two,

(48:50):
Czari's back to Hell, Gross Magic, the Sea Word, DC,
deep Cuts, getting in malfunction,Let's do drugs, med Bay, and
mother fucking free space bebo in,which means Tricia, Yes, you've won
bingo. I won bingo. Youwon Bingo. I the when when I
was putting this together last night,the dossier, there were so many that

(49:12):
I'm like, oh shit, Ihad to make the Bingo card. And
I did it like I usually do, which is random, RANDOMI assignments and
whatnot. And I did the lastthree episodes and I'm like, yep,
sure as hell, Kushia has oneBingo, so but you have Bingo announcements
to make two. I do havebing announcement six. So I will well,
we'll give you do your thing andthen I had an idea. Okay,

(49:32):
so the Bingo episode. So afew episodes ago, AKA, when
we did the first episode of seasontwo, we found out that the listeners
won Bingo based on what they hadfrom last season woo. So we each
suggested a couple episodes, and thenI put up a poll after we started
releasing these episodes for the season andwe are now finally announcing what episode one

(49:53):
and it was surprisingly, honestly,the Magnificent eight. I kind of assumed
cam Lat three thousand would win.Yeah, it came came in strong,
it's sort of Abominations was doing wellyep, and then Helen Hunt. Helen
Hunt had a moment had they Itkind of was neck and neck in a
lot of it was even several times, and then it ended up being the

(50:14):
Magnificent eight on multiple platforms. SoI added all the bost together and won
by quite a bit. So thatthat's so we're doing the Manusent eight is
our very first We're going back toseason one. Yeah, and we are
going to Salvation and immediately we're goingto get a DC deep cut on that
next Bingo card. Two. Yes, we are so much Bingo. But
here's here's my thought. Yes,this whole season that we're in at the

(50:37):
moment, yes, for two moreminutes, is about uh, fate and
free will. Uh So, Ithink your bingo, because we're already doing
this, should should kind of bea free pass. I think that if
you're up for it, why don'tyou use your bingo win to defy fate
at some point this season if weroll one that you're not into, or

(50:58):
that you think is filler or whatever. Okay, say I out rule you
Atropos, I outrule you the kisasWe're gonna do this one instead, all
right? I like that. Iwill take that so we don't have two
bingo episodes, one on top ofthe other. Yeah, I will.
I will use it as a reversecard exactly and pick a new episode if

(51:20):
we roll something I don't like andmake us watch Ikey again. I don't
care, just make us watch Ikeaagain. I love that episode. It
would probably end up being Bebo Godof War, but still cool. Great.
Then do we need to earn thatone? I don't know. No,
I don't know. There are plentyof great episodes. I have plenty
to choose from, So I'm lookingforward to that that should be a good

(51:42):
time. You never know when it'sgoing to come up, but hopefully before
we do our next next bingo.Yeah, so cool. That was so
much bingo? All right, well, we had a good time. We've
had two bingo wins so far thisseason. There were only a few episodes
in so I look forward to therest of this adventure. Just like the
show season two, hitting the groundon the ground running, we didn't have
to shake up the cast to doso. But for now, don't call

(52:06):
us podcasters. We're legends. Indeed. Always hold On To DC's Legends of
Tomorrow is produced by Zach Moore aspart of the Always Hold on To podcast
family. Listen to Zach's other greatpodcasts wherever you're hearing this, and check
out even more podcast action on theAlways hold on to Smallville Patreon page.
You can find more Legends goodness onsocial at Legends of Always, and feel

(52:27):
free to send us an email atLegends of Always at gmail dot com,
hashtag save a hot to clot andrate and review us in app Please do
that, please, please please youbeautiful nard View. Thanks for listening,

(52:55):
but for now, don't call uslegends. Weep Nope. Nope, don't
cause podcasters. I got this,it's fine.