April 10, 2024 • 51 mins
The Legends are hiding out this week and wreaking havoc in a small western town populated by one recognizable DC character. Our co-captains tackle western tropes, Fate vs Love, and Rip’s surprise backstory.
CARDS TO SAVE THE TIMELINE
Scenarios:
• Despite living in the 1870s, Jonah Hex is well aware of the existence of ____.
• Great news! Turns out that kid you saved will grow up to write _____.
• Turns out that old lady is really _______.
• The Time Masters have put out _____ on all of us.
Solutions/People:
• Omega Protocol.
• Old you from the past.
• Items present at your original death.
• Jonah Hex’s face scar.
• HG Wells’ childhood tuberculosis.
BINGO
• Meet Yourself
• DC Deep Cuts
• Suit Up
Follow us on socials @legendsofalways and send us an email at legendsofalways@gmail.com.
Matt Truex is a Warner Bros. Discovery employee. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are his own and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Warner Bros. Discovery.
CARDS TO SAVE THE TIMELINE
Scenarios:
• Despite living in the 1870s, Jonah Hex is well aware of the existence of ____.
• Great news! Turns out that kid you saved will grow up to write _____.
• Turns out that old lady is really _______.
• The Time Masters have put out _____ on all of us.
Solutions/People:
• Omega Protocol.
• Old you from the past.
• Items present at your original death.
• Jonah Hex’s face scar.
• HG Wells’ childhood tuberculosis.
BINGO
• Meet Yourself
• DC Deep Cuts
• Suit Up
Follow us on socials @legendsofalways and send us an email at legendsofalways@gmail.com.
Matt Truex is a Warner Bros. Discovery employee. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are his own and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Warner Bros. Discovery.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So Tricia, uh, this cameup. Got to watch this episode,
have to force this on my wifelast night, and we were trying to
figure out some ways to do thisourselves. But I want to throw it
to you. How would you killsomeone with a bracelet? How would I
kill someone bracelet by making it likeadjustable but very large so I could strangle
(00:24):
them with it? Ah, yes, okay, that's not bad. It
looked like a metal bracelet, SoI'm like, do you do you fold
it out and just like stab thema bunch, you know. Cat suggested
just throwing beads really really hard atpeople and maybe make them choke on one.
So there's many ways. And that'sbeen the podcast. Hello again and
(01:04):
welcome to Always hold On to DC'sLegends of Tomorrow. I am one of
your co captains Tricia Ennis, andI'm the other one I liked Hello again.
Hello again. Much like Legends ofTomorrow, we're not picking up people
this late in the game. Soyeah, we've heard us before. Although
we did get a recent message froma brand new listener on our Instagram that
(01:25):
was very nice. Yes, thatwas very nice. What was it the
handle on that was typically legends?Yes, m sharp Lance reached out to
us and is a big Legends fan. So hello to you, and thank
you for the messages. Glad youfound the podcast. But yeah, we're
jumping in back in season one.It's our first time in season one and
(01:46):
season two. Is that correct?It is our first time in season one
and season two. Thank you,Yeah, thank you? Why of us?
I know, but it's good.This is our Bingo special. It
is the listeners have chosen. Yes, we are back in season one for
episode one eleven, The Magnificent Eightstory by Greg Burlanty and Mark Guggenheim.
(02:07):
Teleplay by Mark Guggenheim, directed byThor Friendenthal, aired April twelfth, two
thousand and six. Ratings watch onepoint nine eight million. We are in
high heady days the season one herethem early days. It's so it's such
always such a bummer to hear howhigh the ratings were in season one and
how low they are by the end. And I'm like, but it was
(02:29):
so good at the end, andit was not as good at the beginning.
Yeah, but I do, like, you know it is it is
still it's got that season one charmhere, you know, it does so
chilly. We were in season one, but very a chilly season. Yeah,
do you want to do the teamrundown here? It's it's it's kind
of standard for season one. Yeah, exactly. No big surprises here,
(02:50):
Gang Rip, Sarah Snart, Nickray Stein, Jack's Kendra, And of
course the only one we've lost sofar is Carter Hall. Yes, dad,
and he looms large. I didwonder how many episodes he's actually in
if you also count flashbacks. Yeah, that's a good point. He's flashback
in all over this thing flashback andlike crazy. Yeah. Rare, yes,
(03:14):
totally, sorry, a rare seasonone episode where there is no Vandal
Savage. Oh yeah, there isno Vandal Savage. This is actually kind
of a light episode. Not lightin terms of light and fun and hah,
but more light, like there's justnot a lot happening right now.
This is again we sort of talkedabout those transitionary episodes. This is kind
of like that, Yes, totally, where we're just sort of getting from
(03:35):
all of what we've been doing andnow we have to move into sort of
the end game of the season,the last four or five episodes, which
includes the whole going back and findingour younger selves and all that stuff.
So yes, this is the settingus there. Sorry, I didn't mean
to kick off. This is theass end of season One's whole like,
Hey, next time we're going togo to the Midwest and next time we're
(03:57):
going to do communist Russia. Itstay tuned, let's stick around, ending
every episode with like, what we'regonna do next time? Right? Right?
How do you feel about the sixties? You know, exactly doing it?
Like literally exactly that kind of thingwhere it's like, you know,
so they're gonna be doing this now, or like we're heading to the nineteen
eighties. Yep, all right,So because of the season one, we
(04:18):
are back finding Slash Fighting Vandall Savage. A couple episodes ago, Kendra and
Ray were stuck with Sarah, butalso not really because she was doing the
League of Assassin stuff in the nineteenfifties and they had a whole life together.
Ray was a teacher and Kendra didI can't remember, and they waited
(04:38):
for like two years, but thenthe wave Writer came back and she was
all yeah, and he was allMick had been kicked off the wave Rider
and like an abandoned puppy with Raby'sminus the shooting thing, but it turned
out that the time Masters found him, tortured him and turned him into a
time cap thing named Kronos. Buthe's better now, I guess. And
that's where we left, because wedid the episode before this, yes,
(05:01):
previously where he was like deprogramming andthen mentioned that like these other people are
after us and blah blah blah,we have to go somewhere else. So
then we went to where we endup here, which is the Old West.
The Old West. It is.It is like the promise of the
show fulfilled right that we can likego into Old West territory and do all
(05:24):
the tropes like that. Let's justjump in here. But like immediately once
we hit the Old West, weare doing like every trope you can think
of. We're doing the slow walkinto town. Everybody's looking cool and the
dusters. We're doing drinking and barfights. Someone becomes a sheriff. There's
like bad gang in town. Weend with like a quick draw at dawn
type of thing, you know,like it's all like yeah, all right,
(05:46):
or excuse me, dawn high noon, you know, like it's it's
they're kind of burning all their Westernthings here in this one episode really quick,
very quickly, and they're all it'salso very like spaghetti Western. Yeah,
it's like the good, the bad, and the ugly, not less
the searchers kind of deal less JohnWayne More, Clint Eastwood. Sorry,
I either have a helicopter or thewaverider, like right on top of my
(06:10):
building, right them to come pickme up too. Yeah, okay,
but I just have a cat that'sdecided to come join me after I mentioned
that he wasn't here. But yeah, so they do all the cliches,
and they just sort of borne throughcliches that we expect them to go through
in the Old West. It's uh, it's fun that Ray is like really
(06:31):
into the Old West. I thinkso too. Yeah, it's more fun
that Rip is really into the OldWest. Yes. The fact that they
call this out and they build thatinto him and kind of explain the whole
vibe of him that I like verymuch in this episode, it adds a
lot of color to Rip where otherwisethey might not have had to it.
(06:56):
I assume it's a it's a thingfor the show, Like it's I only
ever see him in Like I guessit's silver age deal in my mind.
But like he had his own littlething going on, like he was not
this Western guy. Yeah, Idon't. I don't really know. Honestly,
I've never read any of the comicsthat have Rip Hunter in them.
The only time I've ever encountered himwas when I was one time when I
(07:17):
was playing DCU online, and he'slike in the watch Tower at one point,
and but he's like more this versionof Rip Oh okay, I can't
remember if he's a Western I can'tremember if he's in the Duster, But
I feel like he's more this versionof Rip in the sense that he's sort
of this storyline, okay, orlike sort of this like he's a timemester.
(07:41):
It's a little more reminiscent of thisthan it is necessarily of what I
know very little about Rip Originally,Rip was in the past. Yeah,
I'm looking it up because I forgotthe colors. But he's got like he's
got a suit and a belt andit's green with red accents, and like
that's that's a whole deal usually,So it looks like they've kind of pulled
(08:03):
a few things forward from this nowadays. But yeah, it's it's it's it's
interesting that maybe they did have thisin mind when they started coming up with
their version of him, and like, well, it looks stupid if we
do his suit, so maybe wecan do kind of again, fucking Firefly
(08:24):
vibes vibeing hard here in this episodewith him, you know, yeah,
Okay, I literally just looked atwhat he looks like in the DCU online,
so he looks like his comic bookcounterpart. But I wasn't sure how
much of it, like, soso much of it sounded like the Rip
Hunter and this he talks about perDegaton and Vandal Savage like when you go
up and chat with him for thefirst time. But I did nothing with
him, Like I was just like, oh, hey, you're you're I
(08:46):
recognize you, I know you.Yeah, you are interesting. The most
fun part about that game, bythe way, is making yourself weirdly tall
compared to all the other characters,because there's no like height comparison when you're
building your character. So I endedup like towering over Robin at one point.
But actually quite a pretty fun gameif you like simple RPGs. But
yeah, so like I don't,I don't have a lot of Honestly,
(09:09):
this is one of those episodes whereI don't have a lot of DC reference
points. Yeah, and we'll talkabout that in a bit when we get
to our special guest here, oneof two special guest stars in this episode.
Yes, we are still very muchin the season one. We have
all this lore about time travel versuslike the later seasons. Who gives a
shit y you know of it whereit's kind of like this is sort of
(09:31):
vaguely what we're supposed to do,but like it's fine, yeah, exactly
that we get into it first ofall, like when he's trying to explain
what's going on in this town.We're in the Town of Salvation for the
first time, which we will comeback to, of course, but we
find out that it's it's a fragmentation, which means it's a temporal blind spot.
Blah blah blah. And he startsthis sentence explaining it much like me
(09:54):
just now, like, look likewe talked about, like timis cement and
it wants to happen, bah blahblah blah. But also the fragments and
you can kind of be a temporalblind spot. And now Mick kind of
knows things too, because these chronosthat will also fall away in the future.
It is. It's funny to seethem laying these little seeds basically of
what the world could be and howthings could work, and to see that
(10:16):
later on the show mostly doesn't givea shit about basically all of this lore
that they set up in the firstseason, partially because they blow up the
time Masters at the end of theseason. Just like they just jettison all
of the lore. It freezes themup having to deal with it as much.
Yes, and I think that that'sthe right thing. I think that
like I As much as I dolike lore, I don't love it because
(10:41):
in this kind of way, itrequires a lot of explanation and a lot
of constant explanation and like reminding uswhy we can't do this and that,
and then you're creating this giant rulebook of things you can and cannot do,
which as a writer I think isa little too restrictive. Obviously,
like writing with restrictions is because itmakes you a little more creative. But
when you're just creating rules that youcan't break, it's or that you have
(11:05):
to deal with or that you haveto think about because you know the fans
are gonna remember, right for thesake of story crap right, Like,
it's just it becomes too much,and so much of it I don't feel
like builds the world as well asI think they would have liked it to.
I think that's fair, especially justbecause because of like the ambiguity of
time and whymeness here where it's likewe're not like going to a certain place.
(11:28):
I mean in this situation, weare, but like we're just saying
rules out loud. We're not explainingthings in a cool, interesting way,
and that becomes boring. It's notlike what you're talking about is not unlike
what Royalty Moore used to talk aboutwith why he got fed up with Star
Trek or writing it at least whereit was just like every fucking time you
(11:48):
got to find out some reason whythey can't do this and some reason to
work around this, and you gottrekies up your ass about like when you
get something wrong and I'm like,yeah, I get it. Like that's
that's limiting, you know, Andthat's why he then been made PSG,
which had very funerals, which wasmuch more realistic for a show about clones
in space and stuff. Yeah,very much. And actually it kind of
(12:11):
works in legends too, Like thisidea that what I find works really well
for Lore is like when you arediscovering how the world really works, which
has happened in Battlestar Galactica with sortof like finding out what part of their
religion was actually fact, and ithappens in you know, Legends, with
finding out like, oh, thisis actually this thing where magic exists,
(12:35):
but it's kind of like this andthis is how it functions when we put
it in this place, or youknow, all these different things that are
just kind of they're fun, butwe're uncovering something rather than we're being lectured
about it, which I just Ijust think is so much better as a
world building. There's a reason I'mnot a big Tolkien fan. No shit,
just watch one of those one oneof those reas of the Weekend.
I'm like, well, that's verymuch why I prefer it in movie Forum
(12:58):
than books, because I I findhis writing difficult to get through because he
didn't really want to write stories.He wanted to write lore. I mean
basically Tolkien wanted to write RPGs,he just didn't know that that's what they
were. Yeah, he just wantsto sit in his garage and smoke his
pipe and speak Elvish to himself,you know, right, So like I
much prefer sort of storytelling through discovery, rule making, world building through discovery
(13:20):
versus versus you telling me what thisis, and and honestly, all the
lore that we create in season oneis mostly like time bureaucracy, time cops,
time pirates, and that's really it. Time cement, don't forget time
sting right, time Cement, Timewith wobbly places. Vanishing Point, yeah,
exactly. We learn in this episodetime doesn't pass normally in the Vanishing
(13:41):
Point, which, when you thinkabout it, it doesn't help make sense
of crisis at all. So youknow, no, it really doesn't.
I mean, it works it likethey especially because it's so far removed from
this and because so few of thepeople watching crisis probably watch Legends, right,
So it's just kind of like vanishingPoint, You're welcome whatever, Yeah
(14:01):
again, trillion frames a second,who gives a shit? Ye yeah,
not doesn't matter at all, Andso it kind of like explains how this
place works, but also doesn't explainit whatsoever, because how do any of
these people function in a world likethis? What is fun is Jonah Hex.
I was just gonna say, yeahthat from one visit to a bar,
(14:22):
everyone gets their side quests for therest of the right. Yeah that
we show up and just here yougo. These are the things. Yes,
Jonah Hex. I think this isa great version of this character.
But Tricia, I don't know thischaracter very well except when he guess in
media that I like, Oh mygod, so we were in the exact
same position, because I know fuckall about Jonah Hex. So now I'm
(14:43):
gonna just do a very professional wikisearch. Sure, I know, I
know he always wears this Confederate outfit, even though we never talk about it.
He was he was a deserter ofthe Confederate Army because like they were
gonna like kill women and children,like there was something that he found objectionable.
(15:03):
That's that's the movie. I don'twant the movie Internet, I want
the character. Oh isn't what Isaid comics though I don't know I was
reading. I'm pretty sure what Iwas reading was not the comics. And
I think this Jeb Stillwater that theytalk about, who they all have a
history with, is also related tothe comics. I think like he killed
(15:26):
his son or he got his sonkilled or something like that, so Jeb
hates him. I don't know ifJeb scarred him up. And from my
quick googling, yes, Turnbull,Jeb Turnbull and his right hand man.
Oh wait, no shit, that'sfrom the movie too. Fuck you have
you ever seen the movie? No? I have not. No, we
both suck. Okay, okay,I got it. Go ahead, a
(15:54):
blah blah blah. Hang on.He is a character that originates in like
All Star Western, which was thebig seventies comic Western comic. Like,
there's that kind of proud tradition ofDC doing not just superhero stuff, like
we talked about the World War twoArmy comics, you know, and then
(16:15):
we had characters like him. Soit was only like through his own popularity
that he eventually became integrated into superherocraziness too, you know. Yeah.
I mean, so my understanding withfrom what I'm very quickly giving myself a
crash course in please forgive me DCComics fans, go ahead and right to
(16:36):
the show if you'd liked, isthat he was a Confederate soldier, but
he surrendered basically immediately because he didn'treally agree with the confederacies. Okay.
Basically, it's like, we can'thave this character supporting slavery. So after
the Emancipation Proclamation, he surrendered,went to the nearest Union camp to surrender
directly, and then gave up hisunit's position and was is like whatever,
(17:02):
And then in a following story,so Jonah Hackx also has a lot of
weird crossover with like Native Americans,which I'm sure, yes, if we
read them, would be very weird. Oh, you don't think that the
Confederate social soldier talking to Native Americansand a comic in the seventies is gonna
hold up today? I I youknow, I'm not. I don't think
it would. Yeah, Like hehe ends up, he like joins a
(17:26):
tribe at one point he uh,he was sold to a local as a
slave to a local Apache tribe backand like it like origins, okay,
and he like getting nervous. Sohe fell in love with a girl named
White Fawn, and there was anactual Native guy who also liked her,
and then he left and did theConfederacy thing, and then he came back
(17:48):
and he got into a fight withthe other dude, and then that dude
gave him the quote unquote mark ofthe Demon by scarring the side of his
face. Oh so he was scarredby a Native American guy, and that's
what it says. I'm gonna say. I'm sure it's a piece of shit,
but good change movie and rage thatJonah had killed his son and broken
the rules of combat, the chieftainhad him restrained and disfigured with the quote
(18:11):
mark of the Demon by scarring theright side of his face of the heated
tomahawk. Yeah, I don't thinkthis is gonna hold up as well as
you think it will. True.There's so there's such weird stuff in comics
history, but that's Jonah Heck's andwe get into none of that. It's
so funny too that it's like,yeah, he gave up quickly, like
you can still respect him. He'sgonna wear the uniform for the rest of
(18:33):
his goddamn life. But exactly,I mean, he he basically just spends
the recipes hee comics like in andout of being like a bounty hunter.
He basically more or less becomes DC'sversion of like whyaetterup? Yeah, yeah,
that's fair, And like we seeolder versions of him that are all
kind of like grizzled and long hairedand like an old Eastwood type of vibe
(18:56):
too. My first interaction with him, I don't know about you, Trisha,
was Batman the Animated series. Theepisode Showdown where there's like a flashback
to like it's a racial ghoul episodebasically, and that's how they kind of
integrate Jonah Hextonto what's going on withlike Batman's investigation, and then he shows
(19:17):
up a few more times in theDC animated stuff. But that was my
first and exposure to him. Howabout you, I honestly don't know what
my first exposure to him was,because he's one of those characters that I
was sort of like aware of.But I was not a Batman the Animated
Series person when I was a kid, even though it started. I want
(19:38):
to say, I was like fiveor six, and yet you're still here
interesting, and yet I'm still here. So I was never like a DC
Animated show person, And I don'tknow why, Like, I have no
idea why that never hit my radar, even though I of course knew who
Batman and Superman were, but Iwatched like the X Men series and spider
Man the nineties ones. Yeah,these ones, so I don't have that
(20:02):
touchdown, and I've honestly never goneback and like really sat down and watched
the whole thing. So I've seenepisodes of that Justice League Nlimited, just
as League generally, episodes of TeenTitans, that kind of thing, but
I've never really sat down and watchedthe animated universe, and like, maybe
one day I'll actually do that,but we'll see. So I have no
idea what my original exposure to jonahX was, Like, I don't think
it was the movie, but thatthere's definitely a possibility that it was the
(20:23):
movie. Yeah, but he probablyshowed up in some crossover thing. He
probably Yeah, he probably should havesomewhere that I don't remember. He probably
should. He might have shown upin a comic that I read and just
out of my brain, you know, because I read a lot when I
was first getting into comics when Iwas in college, and then I just
focused on certain things, like I'veread a ton of The New fifty two.
(20:44):
Yeah, so it's it's definitely possiblethat I've can counted him in one
of those places, but it's soamorphous in my head. It's more like
I had an inkling of this character. And the to the point where like
I knew who he was when Isaw him on Legends, right, and
like knew that that was cool andkind of exciting, had absolutely no context
for who that was. Right,let's learn about this character together. Basically,
yeah, that said, and again, what the hell do we know?
(21:07):
I think this is a really coolversion of the character. He the
actor is great, he looks perfect, you know, like it's also it's
a it's an easter egg fulfilled wherethere's the wanted poster for him in the
way writer the study there or whateverwe're calling that the lounge captains. No,
it's the parlor, the parlor,You're right, it is the parlor
(21:30):
and like the best surprise of anything. And like Cat gasped when we watched
this last night. But when hesays, like, no, no,
no, what time do you thinkthis is the first time Traveler I've ever
come across, she was like what, I'm like, oh, yeah,
he just like this is typical forhim, you know, like he's interacted
with that, he's fought with thejustice, you know, like, yeah,
(21:51):
this guy gets around very much.And I like the you know,
where is rip Hunter? And youknow, we don't get a lot of
my coat. So yeah, foras much as like Rip is the central
like the central figure of the season, we don't really get a lot of
lore from him. Like we knowTime Master, we know Kid and Wife
died, we know Vandal Savage,but we don't like this is one of
(22:14):
the few things that we learn abouthim, like about his past and his
work and you know what he didand kind of the most interesting thing we
hear about him. Right, yeah, definitely, like this is where were
the flashbacks to this? You know, yeah, this would have been fun
to see. It would have beenfun even for them to have gone back
in time once and see, likeas a way to just get him back
in a later season for an episodelike that'd be fun. Yeah, I
(22:37):
mean, yeah, it definitely couldhave been. Or like, you know,
they go back and they try tosave the town that he lost quote
unquote right, God forbid. Therewas a totem there, you know,
like when they first mentioned the townand like you know that Gideon showing them
images of the town that got destroyedor whatever. Mm hm. Three immediately
went to okay, show us,like are we gonna show the same So
(23:00):
every time a town gets destroyed bylike an explosion or a disaster or something.
It's the same photos of Barringer Craterin Arizona. What is that Baringer
Crater is like a known meteor impactin right outside of like twenty minutes outside
of Winslow, Arizona. Okay,now that Winslow is a big town.
I'm sure it's like got a betterlike like nope, but I know that's
(23:22):
like where we turned right when Iwent to visit it, and it's this
massive impact crater and it's like privatelyowned on privately owned property. So like
they've created like a little museum aboutimpact craters and and asterid impacts and stuff.
But like there have been several instanceswhere a show is like, oh,
yeah, this place got you know, cratered basically like we blew it
(23:45):
up. They show just photos ofBarringer Crater. That's funny, and I'm
like those are really well known photos. Yeah, oh that's those of us
who were nerds. I like that. That's the visual version of the audio
thing we get in this episode,which is we get a Wilhelm screen in
this episode, is kind of thesame thing of like, yeah, so
I was accepting the Baron creator images. They didn't end up using them.
(24:07):
They just showed like a town thatwas destroyed by people in But like I
was expecting that because I've seen itso many times and different things, because
I was going to mention that Ihave photos of Baroner Crador and no I
just did anyway, So there yougo. Yes, yes, But like
the rest of this episode, it'sthere's like a plant the gang in town.
(24:27):
I couldn't give his ship frankly,but let's jump into the ship log.
Should we start with Jonah and andRip where it's like they've got their
history here and it's because they metin this town that got annihilated. It
turns out Rip was stuck here inhis what are we calling it a time
drift? I guess when you kindof go native and want to hang out,
(24:51):
like you hang out there for howeverlong until they come get you again.
And his thing was like he hadto leave and he couldn't help the
town because time, right, that'sthe one thing we can't fix. So
he can't save this town and heknows something terrible is gonna happen, so
he leaves, like the night before. Jonah Hack's clearly had some sort of
(25:12):
connection to this town and is verypissed when he finds out that he knew
the whole time and starts beating himup and stuff. It's fun It then
kind of like motivates him to takea stand in the town that we're in.
So I like where it goes ultimately, Yeah, but yeah, it's
funny. This is an interesting partof the season in terms of like rips
(25:33):
relationship with the other legends, becausehe has more or less surrendered to the
idea that they're gonna do stuff right. Like, he's still arguing with them,
but it's not as full throated,he's not as angry. He lets
them just go like field tripping outinto the wild West. So and arms
them. If you're worried about them, don't fucking arm them exactly. I
(25:56):
mean yeah, So, like it'sthat that's interesting. And then also like
so like he argues with Stein,we'll talk about that in a bit about
you know, the medication that he'sbringing. He but he doesn't stop him,
and then he you know, endsup going and to the standoff,
you know, like yes, tothe shootout. And it's a different kind
(26:18):
of rip than we saw in thebeginning of the season. And they kind
of bleeds into what becomes of theirrelationship in the last little chunk here,
where like he's willing to go andmurder a child, where like this is
all He's just like, we're runningout of ideas and out of time,
and we have to do this andwe have to blow up the you know,
time masters and all that. Soit's it's an interesting like trajectory to
(26:41):
see him go on with his relationshipto all these misfits that he's hyped up.
I agree, and we'll save kindof his his ending here for a
second, but I think it's fun. Shall we jump into our other side
quest for the episode Kendra and OldWest Kendra. I kind of love this
part because I like seeing her interactwith a different type of version of herself,
(27:08):
Like she's met possibilities, Like likeother versions, she's encountered ideas about
other versions she's encountered like her sonin the first episode, and has sort
of this idea of who they arewhen they reincarnate who they were back in
their previous lives. She's having memoriesand all that. But this is the
this is the first time that likeshe really has a conversation with herself,
(27:30):
and it's depressing, like she's kindof an a kind of an angry woman,
like she's she got widowed very veryquickly. Vandall killed's her version of
Carter, whose name was Hannibal.Hannibal Hannibal Hawks right, Yes, she's
(27:52):
a totally normal name. They're earningthat DC badge man, you know.
Yeah, so like pretty early andthen it's like, you know, she's
all I fell in love, butyou can never fall in love. You
could never love someone the way youlook because you're supposed to be with him.
And it's like, okay, butlike, do soulmates exist for everyone?
Uh? I think just for thoseaffected by the Skyrocks, Okay,
(28:21):
just for Thanna Garran's It's don't getright now. We do not have to.
I will turn this car right around. But it's gotta be like a
really sucky existence. Yeah oh yeah, well said I mean, I guess
that's we got that in Small Billtoo, right. And so she becomes
(28:41):
surly and and mad at the worldand everything, and like I just I
guess I have to just go die. I'm just like okay, So this
question came up during Feeling last nighttoo. They must be for lack of
a better word, cycling together,right, Carter and Ken for the end
of time, like there will notbe a reincarnation of one of them until
(29:03):
the other one dies. Yes,that was more or less. Also,
so why not fucking kill yourself andget it over with if you're if you're
this miserable and you know you're goingto be reincarnated. Yeah, I wish
that they had broached that. Yes, I am not advocating suicide for normal
people, for people that constantly getreincarnated and need to find their lover again
and for their even chance that they'llbe happy, like, you know,
(29:29):
yeah, I would love for themto broach that, because that would be
a great way to like introduce somethingabout, you know, our future lives
are dependent on the life that welived, you know previously, and blah
blah blah blah blah. You know, because this woman, if you're still
like on the hunt for Vandal andgiving it a shot and whatnot, by
(29:51):
all means maybe you can take careof this yourself. But then but then
still, why would you kill Vandalwhen your lover's dead and that's going to
break the magic? M hmm.All of this is Pointlets yeah, no,
I I don't. I don't totallyunderstand the logic. Yeah, it's
okay, good. Sorry, mycomputer did a thing and I was like,
(30:12):
I don't entirely understand the logic ofthis, like it it doesn't totally
make sense. But also like itis all the versions of all the versions,
it is the versions that we've sortof seen where this happens where because
it's again I bring up a smallveil because that Carter Hall was the same
essentially, like he had lost hischara and like and now he was just
(30:37):
wading out whatever, Like, socould we have some kind of conversation about
why, Like what is the reasoning? Do you feel a responsibility? Do
you feel do you have to youknow, is there something that is like
is your soul tarnished? Like whatwhat is the reasoning? What would you
not just become weirdly reckless? Yeah, when you're doing again, like let's
(31:00):
talk about Smallvill. When you're whenyou're still kind of in the game,
like he eventually is in smallvill youknow, like he is still hawk manning
around and doing stuff there. I'mlike, Okay, I get that character
motivation, and I get while youyou're kind of Batman at that point,
right, like, you know,like you're hanging in there until until somebody
(31:21):
ends you, which won't be theworst day of your life, to be
honest, but in the meantime,you feel like you have to do this.
I get this for her. She'sdone, she's she's living by herself
in the woods. She's it's anold West, it is a it's a
rough time to be. She doesnot seem happy, like, let's let's
hit the reset button, right.No. I I agree that if you're
(31:44):
not gonna do that, I wouldlove to have a story reason why,
because you can be a little inspiringeven while being melancholy about sort of the
you know, benefits of all this. I don't. I don't know.
I don't. I had a goodtime. I did too. I I
enjoy it. And of course theactress is Anna Deavere Smith, who was
also an incredibly famous playwright, andmade me go like, what the fuck
(32:07):
are you doing here? Yeah?I mean she pops up every once in
a while and a lot of stuff. And I was also surprised because I
had forgotten this, Like I onceI saw her again, I was like,
oh, write this story. Butwhen she popped up. I was
like, oh, why are youhere? Yeah, this is the first
time I've watched this knowing who shewas. Yeah, okay, And it
(32:29):
was just kind of like, oh, fascinating that you decided to do this.
Yeah, I mean, like,I think a lot of people will
know her, like her TV appearancesmore than maybe her playwriting, like for
like TV and film. Honestly,sure, you know, like I of
course I knew her initially from theWest Wing, but of course, like
(32:52):
I know also that she's a playwrightand that she I think she's currently got
one of her plays or something publishedin the Atlantic. Oh, I don't
know. A bunch of stuff withthem. I'd follow them on Instagram,
so I've be seeing a bunch ofvideos with her recently. But yeah,
she wrote you know, a playabout the you know, the Los Angeles
Riots, Yeah, Los Angeles,Yeah, toilet Los Angeles, and and
(33:12):
just a bunch of other stuff.And she's done a lot of theater and
and it's just interesting to see herpop up here because I'm like, especially
when I know that they are LAor New York based actors, I'm like,
but why are you in Canada?My only thought is was she a
Sierra Rene friend or or you know, collaborator, and that's you know,
that's the connection here. Like towork with her like that I could see
(33:32):
certainly plausible, and honestly she doeswork as an older version. Oh totally
I buy it. Similar look yeahyeah, yeah, yeah, And they
don't have to look alike because we'vekind of established that they don't, you
know, they see each other whatever. But but like I get it,
you know, no, yes,I actual they don't necessarily always look like
but I but it helps for theaudience for them to look alike totally because
(33:54):
we also see them in all theirincarnations the same way. And she does
a great job's obviously her teted actress. She's just one of those guest stars
where you're kind of like how howyeah exactly. That's where I was watching
this, like again being like wait, so like it's not like this c
W is like, hey, guesswhat teen audience we got Ana Defer Smith.
(34:17):
It's like oh, they're like,uh ja, we're doing Western come
check out right, Like Jonah hexis the draw right, yeah, an
actor that they probably have no ideawe have said either. So it's like
it's just it's just funny when yousee like like pretty famous or if not
famous, pretty successful people in theseroles. You're just kind of I just
(34:37):
want to know, like how didthat happen? Like, yeah, exactly
who did you know? Like whogot who? What favor was this?
And what did they do for you? I like where they end here though,
too, and it's just you know, all that matters is what you
do. She never fell in likeSarah kind of talks her off a ledge
here, but like Kendra is obviouslybombed after talking to Smith and Sarah's like,
(35:01):
yeah, but she never met RayPalmer, like live your fucking life
very much, Like, yeah,this is a lesson that she learned,
but who knows if that's the reality. Right, It lives in a very
different time, It doesn't have aspaceship, so you know whatever. Yeah,
like you don't know. You can'tyou can't assume everything. Like even
(35:22):
if it does end in tragedy,too, every relationship is worth something.
And she didn't say that he wasgonna die, so like it just ends
in heartbreak and sure so does this, but it is still worthwhile while it
was happening. Yes, couldn't agreemore. Yeah, I feel like that's
(35:42):
how everyone should see relationships like,regardless of how long they last, as
long as they were positive, they'reworth They're worthwhile. I'm just gonna say
I could lose a few from mytimeline, but for the most part,
yes, they they taught me thingsand made me a better person. So
also in the Shiplog, we haveMick Yes playing nice. Yeah, it's
(36:05):
okay. This version of Mick isso weird, work so different, and
it's he's using full sentences. It'svery strange, and I realized the chrono
stuff falls away. But mixed Seasonone is such a far cry from grunting
Rebecca Silver like in the Yeah,in the future, it's so strange to
(36:28):
go from like where we just camefrom to here. It's just so strange.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.It's so funny to see like what
they were trying to set up forhim here, whereas like to kind of
make him a time asset in away, you know, like someone that
that can kind of go toe totoe and knows what's coming and they get
you know, uh, they haveto face off with time pirates or whatever
(36:50):
the fuck later on Bounty Hunters lateron here. Yeah, in the episode
and he knows what's going on,but I have very little interest in it.
Like I'm sod, yeah, thisgets abandoned. I am not interested
in it at all, except tosay it's weird. Yeah, like that.
It is just so weird to likehear him talking normally. It's also
(37:12):
funny because like my like Dominic Purcellto me, like, I watched the
first season of prison Break, whichis the only season that should have existed,
and it's the only one that makesany sense. And then I but
like, and I'd previously watched himin like John Doe and other things that
he was in, so like,I know he can act and he can
do this, but like, Ihave spent so much more time with him
(37:34):
as McRory and specifically the McRory ofthe Future, that this is so strange
now I'm just like, oh right, you like, yeah, exactly.
It's also funny. There's a thingthat I heard a while ago, and
I don't know if it's true ornot, but like he hated doing like
(37:57):
the group scenes when they had todo like scenes in the bridge, Like
he would never stand at the console. He'd always be like on the steps
or in the background, so thatwhen they were doing coverage. He didn't
have to be at anybody else's discoverit, Like they could shoot him out
early and I'm like, yeah,that's the guy he's gonna evolve into here.
He's like he's still in it,you know. Yeah, but also
(38:17):
smart as an actor if you don'twant to be standing around he's coverage all
day. Sent Yes, bridge scenesare still there a whole day. You
burn a whole day doing a bridge. Sorry, everyone's here and we're gonna
do exposition. Why don't I sitat the beginning of the scene. Yeah,
absolutely, so, Yeah, Idon't care about mix so much,
but in this episode, because reallyhe says nothing except this. But it's
(38:37):
just such a weird thing that Iwanted to make sure we brought it up
before we got to Martin Stein.Martin stein Stein's morals versus time travel rules
is what we'll call this section Stein'ssplot. You know that thing where you're
dying British child is near death,so you sail him and like carriage ride
him halfway around the world so wecan see the Old West and die in
(39:00):
a room. Like, what thefuck is this story? That just seems
so normal for a woman who isobviously like God on her own and probably
not in the best financial situation necessarily, and has a child suffering from TV
a very deadly illness before we hada treatment and now a very not deadly
illness as long as you were ina place where has the treatment. M
hm, very not very deadly illnessat the time. So again, let's
(39:23):
take like, conservatively five months toget to the American West from England.
Conservatively. Yeah, fucking insanity.Yeah, it's it's ridiculous, but it's
funny. It's funny, and it'sthe whole you know, it leads to
this fun thing. I do likethis idea as a moral dilemma. Yeah,
Stein can save this child, andhe's a doctor and do no harm
(39:45):
and all that, And can hebend the rule to make to use a
medicine that is around at the timebut not being used as a medicine to
save this child? Yeah, basically, I mean, I think it's a
great moral dilema bring up, especiallyfor someone like Sign. You know,
he knows that there is science thatcan cure this kid. The science doesn't
(40:05):
exist yet, and that's a dumbreason why we can't save a child.
To like, and you know,it comes up in other places too throughout
the series, like this is adumb thing. I'm gonna fix it.
It's Sarah and Star City twenty fortysix, you know, being like that's
stupid, I'm doing this, andthat would honestly probably be me in time
travel, just being like, Nope, this is dumb, I'm gonna fix
it. Like I understand big things, but this one kid, Like,
(40:30):
who the heck could he possibly be? Well, he's he's famous Lewis and
Clark character h G. Wells.As a matter of fact, I love
that HG. Wells's survival depends ontime travel fuck ups. Yes, that
is that is very rewarding to meas a fan of the man himself and
(40:55):
his science fiction and as a Lewisand Clark fan, who is like,
you know, in season eight,would we have got temp this? You
know? Like who knows? Ihope. So that's been so fucking fun.
He's a ridiculous villain, but heis my favorite. He totally belongs
here with Damian Dark and everybody else. Oh yeah, definitely in the Damien
(41:15):
Dark seasons. But yeah, sohe ends up being HG. Wells despite
being referred to as Birdie, uhthroughout the bits that he was in and
wo and there you go, whatwas that? And woo and woo who
and all done, great job,Professor Stein. Meanwhile, it's season one,
though, so we have to endwith a big fight. We're gonna
(41:36):
do pistols at high noon and wedidn't even talk about it, but Ray
becomes the sheriff in this episode,so he's gonna do it first. And
then we learn why uh Rip Hunterhas a revolver because he's a pretty fucking
good quick draw. I mean,he did spend some time in the Old
West, so he did. Infact, I love every episode of season
(41:57):
one where at some point they justall right, fuck the timeline, let's
go crazy and you're gonna need yoursuper suit and hear heck's take a space
revolver and why don't you fly arounda bit? You know, yeah,
I'm gonna need that back by theway, Like it's I like those parts
of the episodes. They're always fun. And also, like I said,
like this is rep just sort oflike accepting fate right with this with these
(42:22):
people that he's with, So hejust like hands people things just like whatever.
Because the time Bounty hunters or whoeverthey are show up and just start
shooting with their laser guns. AndI liked it. Was it Jack's who
was like someone said, like,oh, do we not care about the
timeline anymore? Like, well,they certainly don't. Well they don't,
yeah, so fuck it also kindof a brutal fight the apri Later on
(42:45):
they'll play the same thing much funnier, but like Ray gets tiny and like
bullets through a guy's gut and I'mlike, oh shit, like that's kind
of that's insane. Oh, butit's nothing like the respute and one like
Risputant that happened, but it's playedmuch more for less. Yeah, that
is a funny moment where here it'slike it's almost snydery, you know,
(43:07):
like that's something he would do withthis character. Yeah, that's definitely something
that he would do. And it'sit's it's very quick, So I think
it's easy to be like whatever aboutit, especially given like all the fighting
and as you said, like seasonone had a lot of killing, like
a lot more than we are usedto in the in the future seasons which
(43:27):
are less killing. Uh daff here, Yeah, definitely daff here. So
like it's Season one is always sucha weird tonal shift whenever we go back
to it. I like going backto it because there are a lot about
season one that I like, butyeah, like these things are always kind
of like, oh wow, thisis this is different later on, and
I think it's different for the better, but this wasn't bad. Yeah,
it is those tonal shifts too.That makes me really enjoy how we watch
(43:51):
stuff for this episode, where likewho knows what the next episode's gonna be,
but like that that's really fun tojust constantly be like, yes,
but remember it started like this rightexactly? Isn't that interesting? Yeah,
it's always interesting, always kind offun to remember. I liked you.
I like the way that we dothis. Not to like teetor on Horn
too, because it's like a littleodd, right, it's a it's a
(44:15):
way to dip in and out ofa season that we didn't want to slog
through, and it's just a nicerway to like reminisce about season one,
but also like just really enjoying thefuture seasons right and not have to worry
about it anyway. You're right,it's a great podcast, but that brings
you should listen to it to theend of this episode, except oh wait,
(44:35):
next time, we're gonna have tosave our muppet baby selves. That
was one of the things too,because it was like Mix talks about like
Omega protocols on all of us,like okay, yes, and then when
we cut to like teenage Mick watchinghis house burn, which is honestly not
a bad way to end it.But you're right. I don't think I
had clocked initially that that's how allthe season one episodes ended. Is that
(45:00):
how we got his scars? Idon't remember. It seems fine there,
Yeah, I don't remember how hegot them. All right, it doesn't
matter anyway. We'll do that nexttime or never, who fucking knows,
whenever the fates decide. But Tricia, it is time to play some games.
It is trying to play some games. What was your legendary moment.
(45:22):
I mean, there's the let's justdo it firestorm up into the air.
Yeah, okay, same thing whenwhen Mixed, when when Rip is just
like all right, fuck it,everybody, here's here's your here's all your
toys go. Yeah, that's it'sfun. It's the big action scene.
It's like, okay, we've beenbuilding up to this moment, but also
like most of the individual scenes weren'tsuper memorable in this one. I agree,
(45:45):
there's no real like emotional heart scenebetween like our characters, like you
could say the Anadevir Smith or whateverstuff, But yeah, not so much.
Who's your m v l. Kendra. Maybe maybe she finds that about
the bracelet and stuff, and thatlike moves the plot along in the future,
or get that bracelet eventually. Idon't remember. You know that they
(46:06):
melt it onto the mace and thenthey that she hits Vandal with it.
I think that's helpful, don't quizme. On season one, Matt h
that's fine, or possibly Mick becausehe knows things. Okay, sure,
I said, like Martin because hesaves its. She like I had trouble
(46:29):
with this one too. I don'treally, no one's really doing stuff.
We're all just kind of hanging out, Me Andrey. Like it was mostly
about like let's get Jonah heckson thereand have some Western fun, but like
Barry and there's a whole like badguys in town, raybycomes Sheriff Jacks gets
kidnapped plot which I just mentioned themost of in this whole podcast episode,
(46:50):
like like that's happening, but neitherof us give their ship clearly. Yeah,
like none of it really sticks.It still just goes right through,
like no friction, no nothing.I don't need all the time. It's
a perfectly fine way to spend anhour forty five minutes. If you're watching
with that commercials put it in theback of the box, too, perfect
an hour, spend an hour.I guess let's play some cards, shall
(47:14):
we. Yeah, we're just goingto play one hand of cards. Though,
because I didn't have I didn't haveany solutions for this, but I
do have a few scenarios. Okay, despite living in the eighteen seventies,
Jonah Hex is well aware of theexistence of blank and great news. Turns
out that kid you save will growup to write blank I have. Turns
out that old lady is really blank, and the time masters have put out
(47:37):
blank on all of us. Andthen I did a bunch of solutions.
Slash people got so Omega protocol,old you from the past, items present
at your original death, Jonah Hex'sface scar and HG Well's childhood tuberculosis well
done. And then bingo wise,I only got meet yourself. If we're
allowed to count old Kendre, right, I think that counts you. Great
(48:00):
DC deep cuts obviously and suit up. Am I missing anything I don't believe?
So yeah, Light on the groundjust sort of getting us to this,
to this last bit and letting ussee introduces the location which we come
back to, and Stoneaheck's who wealso come back to, so we also
come back to and big big DClord guys. So why not, Tricia?
(48:23):
Yes, there's only one thing leftto do, there is. I'm
gonna roll for our next episode.Nice, I have the episode guide up,
so I'm ready when you are.That is something I didn't even ask
about, so thank you for beingahead of things. All right? Rolling
for season season I don't know whatthat noise was, but I didn't he
(48:45):
don't worry about it. Season five, Season five, we're jumping right back
jumping. Season five is really theseason six of season two, you know
what I mean? And rolling forepisode thirteen. Season five. Episode thirteen
(49:06):
is going to be hang on becausethis is the funky season. I feel
like it's the zombie one right beforeTV hang On, hang On, hang
on thirteen. Oh yeah, thisis the fuck season. Yes, Okay,
it is thirteen as I am legends, so it is the zombie episode
right before the big ending. It'sgonna be another one where it's just like
(49:28):
everybody's just kind of talking, youknow. It's it's such a good like,
it's kind of a good episode though. I really enjoy it. I
yes, I like, and Ilike where it leads to and we can
talk about the TV when it gainsand there's so much there's so much like
a shiplog stuff, or at leastfor Evan Sarah, which is the only
shiplog I care about, and thatis a good point, and we get
(49:49):
to talk about some other stuff thatI think will be fun. So I
think it's gonna be a good time. And I like zombies, so cool.
All right, let's do that nexttime. We're shawning the deading it
up in some bar in the middleof England and then everybody's gonna tie but
not really, they're gonna wind upTV. But it'll be a good time.
They die first, yeah, Butin the meantime, again, thank
(50:12):
you folks that are following us onsocial Please please always feel free to reach
out tell us what to read ofJonah Hex honestly, because clearly we are
unread in that particular character. Indeed, but til next time, please do
not call us podcasters. We're legends. Always hold on To DC's Legends of
Tomorrow is produced by Zach Moore aspart of the Always hold on To podcast
(50:35):
family. Listen to Zach's other greatpodcasts wherever you're hearing this, and check
out even more podcast action on theAlways hold on to Smallville Patreon page.
You can find more Legends goodness onsocial at Legends of Always, and feel
free to send us an email atLegends of Always at gmail dot com,
hashtag save a hot to clot andrate and review us in app. Please
do that, please, please pleaseyou beautiful nerd you thanks for listening,
(51:15):
but until next time, also pleaseremember, but until next time, please
remember also no what fucking who?Why? Why? Why am I fucking
up on this? But until nexttime, I gotta get it. But D three
So Tricia, uh, this cameup. Got to watch this episode,
have to force this on my wifelast night, and we were trying to
figure out some ways to do thisourselves. But I want to throw it
to you. How would you killsomeone with a bracelet? How would I
kill someone bracelet by making it likeadjustable but very large so I could strangle
(00:24):
them with it? Ah, yes, okay, that's not bad. It
looked like a metal bracelet, SoI'm like, do you do you fold
it out and just like stab thema bunch, you know. Cat suggested
just throwing beads really really hard atpeople and maybe make them choke on one.
So there's many ways. And that'sbeen the podcast. Hello again and
(01:04):
welcome to Always hold On to DC'sLegends of Tomorrow. I am one of
your co captains Tricia Ennis, andI'm the other one I liked Hello again.
Hello again. Much like Legends ofTomorrow, we're not picking up people
this late in the game. Soyeah, we've heard us before. Although
we did get a recent message froma brand new listener on our Instagram that
(01:25):
was very nice. Yes, thatwas very nice. What was it the
handle on that was typically legends?Yes, m sharp Lance reached out to
us and is a big Legends fan. So hello to you, and thank
you for the messages. Glad youfound the podcast. But yeah, we're
jumping in back in season one.It's our first time in season one and
(01:46):
season two. Is that correct?It is our first time in season one
and season two. Thank you,Yeah, thank you? Why of us?
I know, but it's good.This is our Bingo special. It
is the listeners have chosen. Yes, we are back in season one for
episode one eleven, The Magnificent Eightstory by Greg Burlanty and Mark Guggenheim.
(02:07):
Teleplay by Mark Guggenheim, directed byThor Friendenthal, aired April twelfth, two
thousand and six. Ratings watch onepoint nine eight million. We are in
high heady days the season one herethem early days. It's so it's such
always such a bummer to hear howhigh the ratings were in season one and
how low they are by the end. And I'm like, but it was
(02:29):
so good at the end, andit was not as good at the beginning.
Yeah, but I do, like, you know it is it is
still it's got that season one charmhere, you know, it does so
chilly. We were in season one, but very a chilly season. Yeah,
do you want to do the teamrundown here? It's it's it's kind
of standard for season one. Yeah, exactly. No big surprises here,
(02:50):
Gang Rip, Sarah Snart, Nickray Stein, Jack's Kendra, And of
course the only one we've lost sofar is Carter Hall. Yes, dad,
and he looms large. I didwonder how many episodes he's actually in
if you also count flashbacks. Yeah, that's a good point. He's flashback
in all over this thing flashback andlike crazy. Yeah. Rare, yes,
(03:14):
totally, sorry, a rare seasonone episode where there is no Vandal
Savage. Oh yeah, there isno Vandal Savage. This is actually kind
of a light episode. Not lightin terms of light and fun and hah,
but more light, like there's justnot a lot happening right now.
This is again we sort of talkedabout those transitionary episodes. This is kind
of like that, Yes, totally, where we're just sort of getting from
(03:35):
all of what we've been doing andnow we have to move into sort of
the end game of the season,the last four or five episodes, which
includes the whole going back and findingour younger selves and all that stuff.
So yes, this is the settingus there. Sorry, I didn't mean
to kick off. This is theass end of season One's whole like,
Hey, next time we're going togo to the Midwest and next time we're
(03:57):
going to do communist Russia. Itstay tuned, let's stick around, ending
every episode with like, what we'regonna do next time? Right? Right?
How do you feel about the sixties? You know, exactly doing it?
Like literally exactly that kind of thingwhere it's like, you know,
so they're gonna be doing this now, or like we're heading to the nineteen
eighties. Yep, all right,So because of the season one, we
(04:18):
are back finding Slash Fighting Vandall Savage. A couple episodes ago, Kendra and
Ray were stuck with Sarah, butalso not really because she was doing the
League of Assassin stuff in the nineteenfifties and they had a whole life together.
Ray was a teacher and Kendra didI can't remember, and they waited
(04:38):
for like two years, but thenthe wave Writer came back and she was
all yeah, and he was allMick had been kicked off the wave Rider
and like an abandoned puppy with Raby'sminus the shooting thing, but it turned
out that the time Masters found him, tortured him and turned him into a
time cap thing named Kronos. Buthe's better now, I guess. And
that's where we left, because wedid the episode before this, yes,
(05:01):
previously where he was like deprogramming andthen mentioned that like these other people are
after us and blah blah blah,we have to go somewhere else. So
then we went to where we endup here, which is the Old West.
The Old West. It is.It is like the promise of the
show fulfilled right that we can likego into Old West territory and do all
(05:24):
the tropes like that. Let's justjump in here. But like immediately once
we hit the Old West, weare doing like every trope you can think
of. We're doing the slow walkinto town. Everybody's looking cool and the
dusters. We're doing drinking and barfights. Someone becomes a sheriff. There's
like bad gang in town. Weend with like a quick draw at dawn
type of thing, you know,like it's all like yeah, all right,
(05:46):
or excuse me, dawn high noon, you know, like it's it's
they're kind of burning all their Westernthings here in this one episode really quick,
very quickly, and they're all it'salso very like spaghetti Western. Yeah,
it's like the good, the bad, and the ugly, not less
the searchers kind of deal less JohnWayne More, Clint Eastwood. Sorry,
I either have a helicopter or thewaverider, like right on top of my
(06:10):
building, right them to come pickme up too. Yeah, okay,
but I just have a cat that'sdecided to come join me after I mentioned
that he wasn't here. But yeah, so they do all the cliches,
and they just sort of borne throughcliches that we expect them to go through
in the Old West. It's uh, it's fun that Ray is like really
(06:31):
into the Old West. I thinkso too. Yeah, it's more fun
that Rip is really into the OldWest. Yes. The fact that they
call this out and they build thatinto him and kind of explain the whole
vibe of him that I like verymuch in this episode, it adds a
lot of color to Rip where otherwisethey might not have had to it.
(06:56):
I assume it's a it's a thingfor the show, Like it's I only
ever see him in Like I guessit's silver age deal in my mind.
But like he had his own littlething going on, like he was not
this Western guy. Yeah, Idon't. I don't really know. Honestly,
I've never read any of the comicsthat have Rip Hunter in them.
The only time I've ever encountered himwas when I was one time when I
(07:17):
was playing DCU online, and he'slike in the watch Tower at one point,
and but he's like more this versionof Rip Oh okay, I can't
remember if he's a Western I can'tremember if he's in the Duster, But
I feel like he's more this versionof Rip in the sense that he's sort
of this storyline, okay, orlike sort of this like he's a timemester.
(07:41):
It's a little more reminiscent of thisthan it is necessarily of what I
know very little about Rip Originally,Rip was in the past. Yeah,
I'm looking it up because I forgotthe colors. But he's got like he's
got a suit and a belt andit's green with red accents, and like
that's that's a whole deal usually,So it looks like they've kind of pulled
(08:03):
a few things forward from this nowadays. But yeah, it's it's it's it's
interesting that maybe they did have thisin mind when they started coming up with
their version of him, and like, well, it looks stupid if we
do his suit, so maybe wecan do kind of again, fucking Firefly
(08:24):
vibes vibeing hard here in this episodewith him, you know, yeah,
Okay, I literally just looked atwhat he looks like in the DCU online,
so he looks like his comic bookcounterpart. But I wasn't sure how
much of it, like, soso much of it sounded like the Rip
Hunter and this he talks about perDegaton and Vandal Savage like when you go
up and chat with him for thefirst time. But I did nothing with
him, Like I was just like, oh, hey, you're you're I
(08:46):
recognize you, I know you.Yeah, you are interesting. The most
fun part about that game, bythe way, is making yourself weirdly tall
compared to all the other characters,because there's no like height comparison when you're
building your character. So I endedup like towering over Robin at one point.
But actually quite a pretty fun gameif you like simple RPGs. But
yeah, so like I don't,I don't have a lot of Honestly,
(09:09):
this is one of those episodes whereI don't have a lot of DC reference
points. Yeah, and we'll talkabout that in a bit when we get
to our special guest here, oneof two special guest stars in this episode.
Yes, we are still very muchin the season one. We have
all this lore about time travel versuslike the later seasons. Who gives a
shit y you know of it whereit's kind of like this is sort of
(09:31):
vaguely what we're supposed to do,but like it's fine, yeah, exactly
that we get into it first ofall, like when he's trying to explain
what's going on in this town.We're in the Town of Salvation for the
first time, which we will comeback to, of course, but we
find out that it's it's a fragmentation, which means it's a temporal blind spot.
Blah blah blah. And he startsthis sentence explaining it much like me
(09:54):
just now, like, look likewe talked about, like timis cement and
it wants to happen, bah blahblah blah. But also the fragments and
you can kind of be a temporalblind spot. And now Mick kind of
knows things too, because these chronosthat will also fall away in the future.
It is. It's funny to seethem laying these little seeds basically of
what the world could be and howthings could work, and to see that
(10:16):
later on the show mostly doesn't givea shit about basically all of this lore
that they set up in the firstseason, partially because they blow up the
time Masters at the end of theseason. Just like they just jettison all
of the lore. It freezes themup having to deal with it as much.
Yes, and I think that that'sthe right thing. I think that
like I As much as I dolike lore, I don't love it because
(10:41):
in this kind of way, itrequires a lot of explanation and a lot
of constant explanation and like reminding uswhy we can't do this and that,
and then you're creating this giant rulebook of things you can and cannot do,
which as a writer I think isa little too restrictive. Obviously,
like writing with restrictions is because itmakes you a little more creative. But
when you're just creating rules that youcan't break, it's or that you have
(11:05):
to deal with or that you haveto think about because you know the fans
are gonna remember, right for thesake of story crap right, Like,
it's just it becomes too much,and so much of it I don't feel
like builds the world as well asI think they would have liked it to.
I think that's fair, especially justbecause because of like the ambiguity of
time and whymeness here where it's likewe're not like going to a certain place.
(11:28):
I mean in this situation, weare, but like we're just saying
rules out loud. We're not explainingthings in a cool, interesting way,
and that becomes boring. It's notlike what you're talking about is not unlike
what Royalty Moore used to talk aboutwith why he got fed up with Star
Trek or writing it at least whereit was just like every fucking time you
(11:48):
got to find out some reason whythey can't do this and some reason to
work around this, and you gottrekies up your ass about like when you
get something wrong and I'm like,yeah, I get it. Like that's
that's limiting, you know, Andthat's why he then been made PSG,
which had very funerals, which wasmuch more realistic for a show about clones
in space and stuff. Yeah,very much. And actually it kind of
(12:11):
works in legends too, Like thisidea that what I find works really well
for Lore is like when you arediscovering how the world really works, which
has happened in Battlestar Galactica with sortof like finding out what part of their
religion was actually fact, and ithappens in you know, Legends, with
finding out like, oh, thisis actually this thing where magic exists,
(12:35):
but it's kind of like this andthis is how it functions when we put
it in this place, or youknow, all these different things that are
just kind of they're fun, butwe're uncovering something rather than we're being lectured
about it, which I just Ijust think is so much better as a
world building. There's a reason I'mnot a big Tolkien fan. No shit,
just watch one of those one oneof those reas of the Weekend.
I'm like, well, that's verymuch why I prefer it in movie Forum
(12:58):
than books, because I I findhis writing difficult to get through because he
didn't really want to write stories.He wanted to write lore. I mean
basically Tolkien wanted to write RPGs,he just didn't know that that's what they
were. Yeah, he just wantsto sit in his garage and smoke his
pipe and speak Elvish to himself,you know, right, So like I
much prefer sort of storytelling through discovery, rule making, world building through discovery
(13:20):
versus versus you telling me what thisis, and and honestly, all the
lore that we create in season oneis mostly like time bureaucracy, time cops,
time pirates, and that's really it. Time cement, don't forget time
sting right, time Cement, Timewith wobbly places. Vanishing Point, yeah,
exactly. We learn in this episodetime doesn't pass normally in the Vanishing
(13:41):
Point, which, when you thinkabout it, it doesn't help make sense
of crisis at all. So youknow, no, it really doesn't.
I mean, it works it likethey especially because it's so far removed from
this and because so few of thepeople watching crisis probably watch Legends, right,
So it's just kind of like vanishingPoint, You're welcome whatever, Yeah
(14:01):
again, trillion frames a second,who gives a shit? Ye yeah,
not doesn't matter at all, Andso it kind of like explains how this
place works, but also doesn't explainit whatsoever, because how do any of
these people function in a world likethis? What is fun is Jonah Hex.
I was just gonna say, yeahthat from one visit to a bar,
(14:22):
everyone gets their side quests for therest of the right. Yeah that
we show up and just here yougo. These are the things. Yes,
Jonah Hex. I think this isa great version of this character.
But Tricia, I don't know thischaracter very well except when he guess in
media that I like, Oh mygod, so we were in the exact
same position, because I know fuckall about Jonah Hex. So now I'm
(14:43):
gonna just do a very professional wikisearch. Sure, I know, I
know he always wears this Confederate outfit, even though we never talk about it.
He was he was a deserter ofthe Confederate Army because like they were
gonna like kill women and children,like there was something that he found objectionable.
(15:03):
That's that's the movie. I don'twant the movie Internet, I want
the character. Oh isn't what Isaid comics though I don't know I was
reading. I'm pretty sure what Iwas reading was not the comics. And
I think this Jeb Stillwater that theytalk about, who they all have a
history with, is also related tothe comics. I think like he killed
(15:26):
his son or he got his sonkilled or something like that, so Jeb
hates him. I don't know ifJeb scarred him up. And from my
quick googling, yes, Turnbull,Jeb Turnbull and his right hand man.
Oh wait, no shit, that'sfrom the movie too. Fuck you have
you ever seen the movie? No? I have not. No, we
both suck. Okay, okay,I got it. Go ahead, a
(15:54):
blah blah blah. Hang on.He is a character that originates in like
All Star Western, which was thebig seventies comic Western comic. Like,
there's that kind of proud tradition ofDC doing not just superhero stuff, like
we talked about the World War twoArmy comics, you know, and then
(16:15):
we had characters like him. Soit was only like through his own popularity
that he eventually became integrated into superherocraziness too, you know. Yeah.
I mean, so my understanding withfrom what I'm very quickly giving myself a
crash course in please forgive me DCComics fans, go ahead and right to
(16:36):
the show if you'd liked, isthat he was a Confederate soldier, but
he surrendered basically immediately because he didn'treally agree with the confederacies. Okay.
Basically, it's like, we can'thave this character supporting slavery. So after
the Emancipation Proclamation, he surrendered,went to the nearest Union camp to surrender
directly, and then gave up hisunit's position and was is like whatever,
(17:02):
And then in a following story,so Jonah Hackx also has a lot of
weird crossover with like Native Americans,which I'm sure, yes, if we
read them, would be very weird. Oh, you don't think that the
Confederate social soldier talking to Native Americansand a comic in the seventies is gonna
hold up today? I I youknow, I'm not. I don't think
it would. Yeah, Like hehe ends up, he like joins a
(17:26):
tribe at one point he uh,he was sold to a local as a
slave to a local Apache tribe backand like it like origins, okay,
and he like getting nervous. Sohe fell in love with a girl named
White Fawn, and there was anactual Native guy who also liked her,
and then he left and did theConfederacy thing, and then he came back
(17:48):
and he got into a fight withthe other dude, and then that dude
gave him the quote unquote mark ofthe Demon by scarring the side of his
face. Oh so he was scarredby a Native American guy, and that's
what it says. I'm gonna say. I'm sure it's a piece of shit,
but good change movie and rage thatJonah had killed his son and broken
the rules of combat, the chieftainhad him restrained and disfigured with the quote
(18:11):
mark of the Demon by scarring theright side of his face of the heated
tomahawk. Yeah, I don't thinkthis is gonna hold up as well as
you think it will. True.There's so there's such weird stuff in comics
history, but that's Jonah Heck's andwe get into none of that. It's
so funny too that it's like,yeah, he gave up quickly, like
you can still respect him. He'sgonna wear the uniform for the rest of
(18:33):
his goddamn life. But exactly,I mean, he he basically just spends
the recipes hee comics like in andout of being like a bounty hunter.
He basically more or less becomes DC'sversion of like whyaetterup? Yeah, yeah,
that's fair, And like we seeolder versions of him that are all
kind of like grizzled and long hairedand like an old Eastwood type of vibe
(18:56):
too. My first interaction with him, I don't know about you, Trisha,
was Batman the Animated series. Theepisode Showdown where there's like a flashback
to like it's a racial ghoul episodebasically, and that's how they kind of
integrate Jonah Hextonto what's going on withlike Batman's investigation, and then he shows
(19:17):
up a few more times in theDC animated stuff. But that was my
first and exposure to him. Howabout you, I honestly don't know what
my first exposure to him was,because he's one of those characters that I
was sort of like aware of.But I was not a Batman the Animated
Series person when I was a kid, even though it started. I want
(19:38):
to say, I was like fiveor six, and yet you're still here
interesting, and yet I'm still here. So I was never like a DC
Animated show person, And I don'tknow why, Like, I have no
idea why that never hit my radar, even though I of course knew who
Batman and Superman were, but Iwatched like the X Men series and spider
Man the nineties ones. Yeah,these ones, so I don't have that
(20:02):
touchdown, and I've honestly never goneback and like really sat down and watched
the whole thing. So I've seenepisodes of that Justice League Nlimited, just
as League generally, episodes of TeenTitans, that kind of thing, but
I've never really sat down and watchedthe animated universe, and like, maybe
one day I'll actually do that,but we'll see. So I have no
idea what my original exposure to jonahX was, Like, I don't think
it was the movie, but thatthere's definitely a possibility that it was the
(20:23):
movie. Yeah, but he probablyshowed up in some crossover thing. He
probably Yeah, he probably should havesomewhere that I don't remember. He probably
should. He might have shown upin a comic that I read and just
out of my brain, you know, because I read a lot when I
was first getting into comics when Iwas in college, and then I just
focused on certain things, like I'veread a ton of The New fifty two.
(20:44):
Yeah, so it's it's definitely possiblethat I've can counted him in one
of those places, but it's soamorphous in my head. It's more like
I had an inkling of this character. And the to the point where like
I knew who he was when Isaw him on Legends, right, and
like knew that that was cool andkind of exciting, had absolutely no context
for who that was. Right,let's learn about this character together. Basically,
yeah, that said, and again, what the hell do we know?
(21:07):
I think this is a really coolversion of the character. He the
actor is great, he looks perfect, you know, like it's also it's
a it's an easter egg fulfilled wherethere's the wanted poster for him in the
way writer the study there or whateverwe're calling that the lounge captains. No,
it's the parlor, the parlor,You're right, it is the parlor
(21:30):
and like the best surprise of anything. And like Cat gasped when we watched
this last night. But when hesays, like, no, no,
no, what time do you thinkthis is the first time Traveler I've ever
come across, she was like what, I'm like, oh, yeah,
he just like this is typical forhim, you know, like he's interacted
with that, he's fought with thejustice, you know, like, yeah,
(21:51):
this guy gets around very much.And I like the you know,
where is rip Hunter? And youknow, we don't get a lot of
my coat. So yeah, foras much as like Rip is the central
like the central figure of the season, we don't really get a lot of
lore from him. Like we knowTime Master, we know Kid and Wife
died, we know Vandal Savage,but we don't like this is one of
(22:14):
the few things that we learn abouthim, like about his past and his
work and you know what he didand kind of the most interesting thing we
hear about him. Right, yeah, definitely, like this is where were
the flashbacks to this? You know, yeah, this would have been fun
to see. It would have beenfun even for them to have gone back
in time once and see, likeas a way to just get him back
in a later season for an episodelike that'd be fun. Yeah, I
(22:37):
mean, yeah, it definitely couldhave been. Or like, you know,
they go back and they try tosave the town that he lost quote
unquote right, God forbid. Therewas a totem there, you know,
like when they first mentioned the townand like you know that Gideon showing them
images of the town that got destroyedor whatever. Mm hm. Three immediately
went to okay, show us,like are we gonna show the same So
(23:00):
every time a town gets destroyed bylike an explosion or a disaster or something.
It's the same photos of Barringer Craterin Arizona. What is that Baringer
Crater is like a known meteor impactin right outside of like twenty minutes outside
of Winslow, Arizona. Okay,now that Winslow is a big town.
I'm sure it's like got a betterlike like nope, but I know that's
(23:22):
like where we turned right when Iwent to visit it, and it's this
massive impact crater and it's like privatelyowned on privately owned property. So like
they've created like a little museum aboutimpact craters and and asterid impacts and stuff.
But like there have been several instanceswhere a show is like, oh,
yeah, this place got you know, cratered basically like we blew it
(23:45):
up. They show just photos ofBarringer Crater. That's funny, and I'm
like those are really well known photos. Yeah, oh that's those of us
who were nerds. I like that. That's the visual version of the audio
thing we get in this episode,which is we get a Wilhelm screen in
this episode, is kind of thesame thing of like, yeah, so
I was accepting the Baron creator images. They didn't end up using them.
(24:07):
They just showed like a town thatwas destroyed by people in But like I
was expecting that because I've seen itso many times and different things, because
I was going to mention that Ihave photos of Baroner Crador and no I
just did anyway, So there yougo. Yes, yes, But like
the rest of this episode, it'sthere's like a plant the gang in town.
(24:27):
I couldn't give his ship frankly,but let's jump into the ship log.
Should we start with Jonah and andRip where it's like they've got their
history here and it's because they metin this town that got annihilated. It
turns out Rip was stuck here inhis what are we calling it a time
drift? I guess when you kindof go native and want to hang out,
(24:51):
like you hang out there for howeverlong until they come get you again.
And his thing was like he hadto leave and he couldn't help the
town because time, right, that'sthe one thing we can't fix. So
he can't save this town and heknows something terrible is gonna happen, so
he leaves, like the night before. Jonah Hack's clearly had some sort of
(25:12):
connection to this town and is verypissed when he finds out that he knew
the whole time and starts beating himup and stuff. It's fun It then
kind of like motivates him to takea stand in the town that we're in.
So I like where it goes ultimately, Yeah, but yeah, it's
funny. This is an interesting partof the season in terms of like rips
(25:33):
relationship with the other legends, becausehe has more or less surrendered to the
idea that they're gonna do stuff right. Like, he's still arguing with them,
but it's not as full throated,he's not as angry. He lets
them just go like field tripping outinto the wild West. So and arms
them. If you're worried about them, don't fucking arm them exactly. I
(25:56):
mean yeah, So, like it'sthat that's interesting. And then also like
so like he argues with Stein,we'll talk about that in a bit about
you know, the medication that he'sbringing. He but he doesn't stop him,
and then he you know, endsup going and to the standoff,
you know, like yes, tothe shootout. And it's a different kind
(26:18):
of rip than we saw in thebeginning of the season. And they kind
of bleeds into what becomes of theirrelationship in the last little chunk here,
where like he's willing to go andmurder a child, where like this is
all He's just like, we're runningout of ideas and out of time,
and we have to do this andwe have to blow up the you know,
time masters and all that. Soit's it's an interesting like trajectory to
(26:41):
see him go on with his relationshipto all these misfits that he's hyped up.
I agree, and we'll save kindof his his ending here for a
second, but I think it's fun. Shall we jump into our other side
quest for the episode Kendra and OldWest Kendra. I kind of love this
part because I like seeing her interactwith a different type of version of herself,
(27:08):
Like she's met possibilities, Like likeother versions, she's encountered ideas about
other versions she's encountered like her sonin the first episode, and has sort
of this idea of who they arewhen they reincarnate who they were back in
their previous lives. She's having memoriesand all that. But this is the
this is the first time that likeshe really has a conversation with herself,
(27:30):
and it's depressing, like she's kindof an a kind of an angry woman,
like she's she got widowed very veryquickly. Vandall killed's her version of
Carter, whose name was Hannibal.Hannibal Hannibal Hawks right, Yes, she's
(27:52):
a totally normal name. They're earningthat DC badge man, you know.
Yeah, so like pretty early andthen it's like, you know, she's
all I fell in love, butyou can never fall in love. You
could never love someone the way youlook because you're supposed to be with him.
And it's like, okay, butlike, do soulmates exist for everyone?
Uh? I think just for thoseaffected by the Skyrocks, Okay,
(28:21):
just for Thanna Garran's It's don't getright now. We do not have to.
I will turn this car right around. But it's gotta be like a
really sucky existence. Yeah oh yeah, well said I mean, I guess
that's we got that in Small Billtoo, right. And so she becomes
(28:41):
surly and and mad at the worldand everything, and like I just I
guess I have to just go die. I'm just like okay, So this
question came up during Feeling last nighttoo. They must be for lack of
a better word, cycling together,right, Carter and Ken for the end
of time, like there will notbe a reincarnation of one of them until
(29:03):
the other one dies. Yes,that was more or less. Also,
so why not fucking kill yourself andget it over with if you're if you're
this miserable and you know you're goingto be reincarnated. Yeah, I wish
that they had broached that. Yes, I am not advocating suicide for normal
people, for people that constantly getreincarnated and need to find their lover again
and for their even chance that they'llbe happy, like, you know,
(29:29):
yeah, I would love for themto broach that, because that would be
a great way to like introduce somethingabout, you know, our future lives
are dependent on the life that welived, you know previously, and blah
blah blah blah blah. You know, because this woman, if you're still
like on the hunt for Vandal andgiving it a shot and whatnot, by
(29:51):
all means maybe you can take careof this yourself. But then but then
still, why would you kill Vandalwhen your lover's dead and that's going to
break the magic? M hmm.All of this is Pointlets yeah, no,
I I don't. I don't totallyunderstand the logic. Yeah, it's
okay, good. Sorry, mycomputer did a thing and I was like,
(30:12):
I don't entirely understand the logic ofthis, like it it doesn't totally
make sense. But also like itis all the versions of all the versions,
it is the versions that we've sortof seen where this happens where because
it's again I bring up a smallveil because that Carter Hall was the same
essentially, like he had lost hischara and like and now he was just
(30:37):
wading out whatever, Like, socould we have some kind of conversation about
why, Like what is the reasoning? Do you feel a responsibility? Do
you feel do you have to youknow, is there something that is like
is your soul tarnished? Like whatwhat is the reasoning? What would you
not just become weirdly reckless? Yeah, when you're doing again, like let's
(31:00):
talk about Smallvill. When you're whenyou're still kind of in the game,
like he eventually is in smallvill youknow, like he is still hawk manning
around and doing stuff there. I'mlike, Okay, I get that character
motivation, and I get while youyou're kind of Batman at that point,
right, like, you know,like you're hanging in there until until somebody
(31:21):
ends you, which won't be theworst day of your life, to be
honest, but in the meantime,you feel like you have to do this.
I get this for her. She'sdone, she's she's living by herself
in the woods. She's it's anold West, it is a it's a
rough time to be. She doesnot seem happy, like, let's let's
hit the reset button, right.No. I I agree that if you're
(31:44):
not gonna do that, I wouldlove to have a story reason why,
because you can be a little inspiringeven while being melancholy about sort of the
you know, benefits of all this. I don't. I don't know.
I don't. I had a goodtime. I did too. I I
enjoy it. And of course theactress is Anna Deavere Smith, who was
also an incredibly famous playwright, andmade me go like, what the fuck
(32:07):
are you doing here? Yeah?I mean she pops up every once in
a while and a lot of stuff. And I was also surprised because I
had forgotten this, Like I onceI saw her again, I was like,
oh, write this story. Butwhen she popped up. I was
like, oh, why are youhere? Yeah, this is the first
time I've watched this knowing who shewas. Yeah, okay, And it
(32:29):
was just kind of like, oh, fascinating that you decided to do this.
Yeah, I mean, like,I think a lot of people will
know her, like her TV appearancesmore than maybe her playwriting, like for
like TV and film. Honestly,sure, you know, like I of
course I knew her initially from theWest Wing, but of course, like
(32:52):
I know also that she's a playwrightand that she I think she's currently got
one of her plays or something publishedin the Atlantic. Oh, I don't
know. A bunch of stuff withthem. I'd follow them on Instagram,
so I've be seeing a bunch ofvideos with her recently. But yeah,
she wrote you know, a playabout the you know, the Los Angeles
Riots, Yeah, Los Angeles,Yeah, toilet Los Angeles, and and
(33:12):
just a bunch of other stuff.And she's done a lot of theater and
and it's just interesting to see herpop up here because I'm like, especially
when I know that they are LAor New York based actors, I'm like,
but why are you in Canada?My only thought is was she a
Sierra Rene friend or or you know, collaborator, and that's you know,
that's the connection here. Like towork with her like that I could see
(33:32):
certainly plausible, and honestly she doeswork as an older version. Oh totally
I buy it. Similar look yeahyeah, yeah, yeah, And they
don't have to look alike because we'vekind of established that they don't, you
know, they see each other whatever. But but like I get it,
you know, no, yes,I actual they don't necessarily always look like
but I but it helps for theaudience for them to look alike totally because
(33:54):
we also see them in all theirincarnations the same way. And she does
a great job's obviously her teted actress. She's just one of those guest stars
where you're kind of like how howyeah exactly. That's where I was watching
this, like again being like wait, so like it's not like this c
W is like, hey, guesswhat teen audience we got Ana Defer Smith.
(34:17):
It's like oh, they're like,uh ja, we're doing Western come
check out right, Like Jonah hexis the draw right, yeah, an
actor that they probably have no ideawe have said either. So it's like
it's just it's just funny when yousee like like pretty famous or if not
famous, pretty successful people in theseroles. You're just kind of I just
(34:37):
want to know, like how didthat happen? Like, yeah, exactly
who did you know? Like whogot who? What favor was this?
And what did they do for you? I like where they end here though,
too, and it's just you know, all that matters is what you
do. She never fell in likeSarah kind of talks her off a ledge
here, but like Kendra is obviouslybombed after talking to Smith and Sarah's like,
(35:01):
yeah, but she never met RayPalmer, like live your fucking life
very much, Like, yeah,this is a lesson that she learned,
but who knows if that's the reality. Right, It lives in a very
different time, It doesn't have aspaceship, so you know whatever. Yeah,
like you don't know. You can'tyou can't assume everything. Like even
(35:22):
if it does end in tragedy,too, every relationship is worth something.
And she didn't say that he wasgonna die, so like it just ends
in heartbreak and sure so does this, but it is still worthwhile while it
was happening. Yes, couldn't agreemore. Yeah, I feel like that's
(35:42):
how everyone should see relationships like,regardless of how long they last, as
long as they were positive, they'reworth They're worthwhile. I'm just gonna say
I could lose a few from mytimeline, but for the most part,
yes, they they taught me thingsand made me a better person. So
also in the Shiplog, we haveMick Yes playing nice. Yeah, it's
(36:05):
okay. This version of Mick isso weird, work so different, and
it's he's using full sentences. It'svery strange, and I realized the chrono
stuff falls away. But mixed Seasonone is such a far cry from grunting
Rebecca Silver like in the Yeah,in the future, it's so strange to
(36:28):
go from like where we just camefrom to here. It's just so strange.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.It's so funny to see like what
they were trying to set up forhim here, whereas like to kind of
make him a time asset in away, you know, like someone that
that can kind of go toe totoe and knows what's coming and they get
you know, uh, they haveto face off with time pirates or whatever
(36:50):
the fuck later on Bounty Hunters lateron here. Yeah, in the episode
and he knows what's going on,but I have very little interest in it.
Like I'm sod, yeah, thisgets abandoned. I am not interested
in it at all, except tosay it's weird. Yeah, like that.
It is just so weird to likehear him talking normally. It's also
(37:12):
funny because like my like Dominic Purcellto me, like, I watched the
first season of prison Break, whichis the only season that should have existed,
and it's the only one that makesany sense. And then I but
like, and I'd previously watched himin like John Doe and other things that
he was in, so like,I know he can act and he can
do this, but like, Ihave spent so much more time with him
(37:34):
as McRory and specifically the McRory ofthe Future, that this is so strange
now I'm just like, oh right, you like, yeah, exactly.
It's also funny. There's a thingthat I heard a while ago, and
I don't know if it's true ornot, but like he hated doing like
(37:57):
the group scenes when they had todo like scenes in the bridge, Like
he would never stand at the console. He'd always be like on the steps
or in the background, so thatwhen they were doing coverage. He didn't
have to be at anybody else's discoverit, Like they could shoot him out
early and I'm like, yeah,that's the guy he's gonna evolve into here.
He's like he's still in it,you know. Yeah, but also
(38:17):
smart as an actor if you don'twant to be standing around he's coverage all
day. Sent Yes, bridge scenesare still there a whole day. You
burn a whole day doing a bridge. Sorry, everyone's here and we're gonna
do exposition. Why don't I sitat the beginning of the scene. Yeah,
absolutely, so, Yeah, Idon't care about mix so much,
but in this episode, because reallyhe says nothing except this. But it's
(38:37):
just such a weird thing that Iwanted to make sure we brought it up
before we got to Martin Stein.Martin stein Stein's morals versus time travel rules
is what we'll call this section Stein'ssplot. You know that thing where you're
dying British child is near death,so you sail him and like carriage ride
him halfway around the world so wecan see the Old West and die in
(39:00):
a room. Like, what thefuck is this story? That just seems
so normal for a woman who isobviously like God on her own and probably
not in the best financial situation necessarily, and has a child suffering from TV
a very deadly illness before we hada treatment and now a very not deadly
illness as long as you were ina place where has the treatment. M
hm, very not very deadly illnessat the time. So again, let's
(39:23):
take like, conservatively five months toget to the American West from England.
Conservatively. Yeah, fucking insanity.Yeah, it's it's ridiculous, but it's
funny. It's funny, and it'sthe whole you know, it leads to
this fun thing. I do likethis idea as a moral dilemma. Yeah,
Stein can save this child, andhe's a doctor and do no harm
(39:45):
and all that, And can hebend the rule to make to use a
medicine that is around at the timebut not being used as a medicine to
save this child? Yeah, basically, I mean, I think it's a
great moral dilema bring up, especiallyfor someone like Sign. You know,
he knows that there is science thatcan cure this kid. The science doesn't
(40:05):
exist yet, and that's a dumbreason why we can't save a child.
To like, and you know,it comes up in other places too throughout
the series, like this is adumb thing. I'm gonna fix it.
It's Sarah and Star City twenty fortysix, you know, being like that's
stupid, I'm doing this, andthat would honestly probably be me in time
travel, just being like, Nope, this is dumb, I'm gonna fix
it. Like I understand big things, but this one kid, Like,
(40:30):
who the heck could he possibly be? Well, he's he's famous Lewis and
Clark character h G. Wells.As a matter of fact, I love
that HG. Wells's survival depends ontime travel fuck ups. Yes, that
is that is very rewarding to meas a fan of the man himself and
(40:55):
his science fiction and as a Lewisand Clark fan, who is like,
you know, in season eight,would we have got temp this? You
know? Like who knows? Ihope. So that's been so fucking fun.
He's a ridiculous villain, but heis my favorite. He totally belongs
here with Damian Dark and everybody else. Oh yeah, definitely in the Damien
(41:15):
Dark seasons. But yeah, sohe ends up being HG. Wells despite
being referred to as Birdie, uhthroughout the bits that he was in and
wo and there you go, whatwas that? And woo and woo who
and all done, great job,Professor Stein. Meanwhile, it's season one,
though, so we have to endwith a big fight. We're gonna
(41:36):
do pistols at high noon and wedidn't even talk about it, but Ray
becomes the sheriff in this episode,so he's gonna do it first. And
then we learn why uh Rip Hunterhas a revolver because he's a pretty fucking
good quick draw. I mean,he did spend some time in the Old
West, so he did. Infact, I love every episode of season
(41:57):
one where at some point they justall right, fuck the timeline, let's
go crazy and you're gonna need yoursuper suit and hear heck's take a space
revolver and why don't you fly arounda bit? You know, yeah,
I'm gonna need that back by theway, Like it's I like those parts
of the episodes. They're always fun. And also, like I said,
like this is rep just sort oflike accepting fate right with this with these
(42:22):
people that he's with, So hejust like hands people things just like whatever.
Because the time Bounty hunters or whoeverthey are show up and just start
shooting with their laser guns. AndI liked it. Was it Jack's who
was like someone said, like,oh, do we not care about the
timeline anymore? Like, well,they certainly don't. Well they don't,
yeah, so fuck it also kindof a brutal fight the apri Later on
(42:45):
they'll play the same thing much funnier, but like Ray gets tiny and like
bullets through a guy's gut and I'mlike, oh shit, like that's kind
of that's insane. Oh, butit's nothing like the respute and one like
Risputant that happened, but it's playedmuch more for less. Yeah, that
is a funny moment where here it'slike it's almost snydery, you know,
(43:07):
like that's something he would do withthis character. Yeah, that's definitely something
that he would do. And it'sit's it's very quick, So I think
it's easy to be like whatever aboutit, especially given like all the fighting
and as you said, like seasonone had a lot of killing, like
a lot more than we are usedto in the in the future seasons which
(43:27):
are less killing. Uh daff here, Yeah, definitely daff here. So
like it's Season one is always sucha weird tonal shift whenever we go back
to it. I like going backto it because there are a lot about
season one that I like, butyeah, like these things are always kind
of like, oh wow, thisis this is different later on, and
I think it's different for the better, but this wasn't bad. Yeah,
it is those tonal shifts too.That makes me really enjoy how we watch
(43:51):
stuff for this episode, where likewho knows what the next episode's gonna be,
but like that that's really fun tojust constantly be like, yes,
but remember it started like this rightexactly? Isn't that interesting? Yeah,
it's always interesting, always kind offun to remember. I liked you.
I like the way that we dothis. Not to like teetor on Horn
too, because it's like a littleodd, right, it's a it's a
(44:15):
way to dip in and out ofa season that we didn't want to slog
through, and it's just a nicerway to like reminisce about season one,
but also like just really enjoying thefuture seasons right and not have to worry
about it anyway. You're right,it's a great podcast, but that brings
you should listen to it to theend of this episode, except oh wait,
(44:35):
next time, we're gonna have tosave our muppet baby selves. That
was one of the things too,because it was like Mix talks about like
Omega protocols on all of us,like okay, yes, and then when
we cut to like teenage Mick watchinghis house burn, which is honestly not
a bad way to end it.But you're right. I don't think I
had clocked initially that that's how allthe season one episodes ended. Is that
(45:00):
how we got his scars? Idon't remember. It seems fine there,
Yeah, I don't remember how hegot them. All right, it doesn't
matter anyway. We'll do that nexttime or never, who fucking knows,
whenever the fates decide. But Tricia, it is time to play some games.
It is trying to play some games. What was your legendary moment.
(45:22):
I mean, there's the let's justdo it firestorm up into the air.
Yeah, okay, same thing whenwhen Mixed, when when Rip is just
like all right, fuck it,everybody, here's here's your here's all your
toys go. Yeah, that's it'sfun. It's the big action scene.
It's like, okay, we've beenbuilding up to this moment, but also
like most of the individual scenes weren'tsuper memorable in this one. I agree,
(45:45):
there's no real like emotional heart scenebetween like our characters, like you
could say the Anadevir Smith or whateverstuff, But yeah, not so much.
Who's your m v l. Kendra. Maybe maybe she finds that about
the bracelet and stuff, and thatlike moves the plot along in the future,
or get that bracelet eventually. Idon't remember. You know that they
(46:06):
melt it onto the mace and thenthey that she hits Vandal with it.
I think that's helpful, don't quizme. On season one, Matt h
that's fine, or possibly Mick becausehe knows things. Okay, sure,
I said, like Martin because hesaves its. She like I had trouble
(46:29):
with this one too. I don'treally, no one's really doing stuff.
We're all just kind of hanging out, Me Andrey. Like it was mostly
about like let's get Jonah heckson thereand have some Western fun, but like
Barry and there's a whole like badguys in town, raybycomes Sheriff Jacks gets
kidnapped plot which I just mentioned themost of in this whole podcast episode,
(46:50):
like like that's happening, but neitherof us give their ship clearly. Yeah,
like none of it really sticks.It still just goes right through,
like no friction, no nothing.I don't need all the time. It's
a perfectly fine way to spend anhour forty five minutes. If you're watching
with that commercials put it in theback of the box, too, perfect
an hour, spend an hour.I guess let's play some cards, shall
(47:14):
we. Yeah, we're just goingto play one hand of cards. Though,
because I didn't have I didn't haveany solutions for this, but I
do have a few scenarios. Okay, despite living in the eighteen seventies,
Jonah Hex is well aware of theexistence of blank and great news. Turns
out that kid you save will growup to write blank I have. Turns
out that old lady is really blank, and the time masters have put out
(47:37):
blank on all of us. Andthen I did a bunch of solutions.
Slash people got so Omega protocol,old you from the past, items present
at your original death, Jonah Hex'sface scar and HG Well's childhood tuberculosis well
done. And then bingo wise,I only got meet yourself. If we're
allowed to count old Kendre, right, I think that counts you. Great
(48:00):
DC deep cuts obviously and suit up. Am I missing anything I don't believe?
So yeah, Light on the groundjust sort of getting us to this,
to this last bit and letting ussee introduces the location which we come
back to, and Stoneaheck's who wealso come back to, so we also
come back to and big big DClord guys. So why not, Tricia?
(48:23):
Yes, there's only one thing leftto do, there is. I'm
gonna roll for our next episode.Nice, I have the episode guide up,
so I'm ready when you are.That is something I didn't even ask
about, so thank you for beingahead of things. All right? Rolling
for season season I don't know whatthat noise was, but I didn't he
(48:45):
don't worry about it. Season five, Season five, we're jumping right back
jumping. Season five is really theseason six of season two, you know
what I mean? And rolling forepisode thirteen. Season five. Episode thirteen
(49:06):
is going to be hang on becausethis is the funky season. I feel
like it's the zombie one right beforeTV hang On, hang On, hang
on thirteen. Oh yeah, thisis the fuck season. Yes, Okay,
it is thirteen as I am legends, so it is the zombie episode
right before the big ending. It'sgonna be another one where it's just like
(49:28):
everybody's just kind of talking, youknow. It's it's such a good like,
it's kind of a good episode though. I really enjoy it. I
yes, I like, and Ilike where it leads to and we can
talk about the TV when it gainsand there's so much there's so much like
a shiplog stuff, or at leastfor Evan Sarah, which is the only
shiplog I care about, and thatis a good point, and we get
(49:49):
to talk about some other stuff thatI think will be fun. So I
think it's gonna be a good time. And I like zombies, so cool.
All right, let's do that nexttime. We're shawning the deading it
up in some bar in the middleof England and then everybody's gonna tie but
not really, they're gonna wind upTV. But it'll be a good time.
They die first, yeah, Butin the meantime, again, thank
(50:12):
you folks that are following us onsocial Please please always feel free to reach
out tell us what to read ofJonah Hex honestly, because clearly we are
unread in that particular character. Indeed, but til next time, please do
not call us podcasters. We're legends. Always hold on To DC's Legends of
Tomorrow is produced by Zach Moore aspart of the Always hold on To podcast
(50:35):
family. Listen to Zach's other greatpodcasts wherever you're hearing this, and check
out even more podcast action on theAlways hold on to Smallville Patreon page.
You can find more Legends goodness onsocial at Legends of Always, and feel
free to send us an email atLegends of Always at gmail dot com,
hashtag save a hot to clot andrate and review us in app. Please
do that, please, please pleaseyou beautiful nerd you thanks for listening,
(51:15):
but until next time, also pleaseremember, but until next time, please
remember also no what fucking who?Why? Why? Why am I fucking
up on this? But until nexttime, I gotta get it. But D three
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