063: The Acolyte, "The Acolyte"

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
A long time ago in a galaxyfar far away. Welcome to always hold

(00:38):
on to Star Wars, where everything'smade up and the points don't matter.
We're here talking about Accolyte episode eight, and you hear quite a few peaceful
laughing on this because we brought somefriends in because we needed it. I'm
one of your hosts, Chris.I'm joined by Cavante. What's up?
Man? Joined by Joey. Idon't even know anymore. Man. We

(01:02):
have Zach. Hello there, Welcometo the accolade. Hey Zach, did
you say that because someone in StarWars said it? Before? You can
complete your destiny? keV Yes,use your anger. I'll see you in
hell and pun intended. Lastly,we have Lancelaster. You know, Brendock

(01:23):
is pretty nice this time of year. You know. I got to say
the planet titles were helpful because allthe planets look alike. Now, I
was like, did they crash onthe There was a point where I thought,
when they crashed on Brendock, thatwas the planet that came here and
we're already on I thought so too, And you know what, maybe that

(01:45):
would have been better. Actually,if you think about story construction, which
is I've been listening to you guysepisode construction Man, and it's great.
It's been great to listen to.And I was like, do do I
want to come on here and talkabout Star Wars like on the record in
the public square. I'm like,it's dangerous these days, but I think
this is a safe place. Andyou know, when we gave it the

(02:07):
whole season, I wanted to wait. I wanted to give them the benefit
of the doubt, even though theycertainly don't deserve it. I wanted to
give them the benefit of the doubttell their story, and it's told now,
and I'm looking forward to talking toyou guys about it because we all
just just watched the episode, likewe're hot off the press. Yeah,
we wanted to come instant reaction ofemotion because you can't because nobody can control

(02:29):
emotions. No one can, especiallyjust like when Lance and I go see
the DC comic movies and we recordimmediately afterwards. That's the same kind of
energy you're gonna get tonight. Thisis the same vibe for sure. I
can't wait to be a part ofthat me too. It's the same vibe.
Like people are like there's like angerthere's there's disappointment, there's frustration.
It's the same stuff. Man,there is some stuff we liked. We

(02:51):
will talk about that, right yeah, Well, and real quick because we've
listened to everyone out there has heardyou guys talk about where you are with
the show. But but real quick, let's look Lance and I wish we
should check in, okay with everybodyand let them know, like on the
accolade, right, where are youat with it? Like, what was
your journey in a in a nutshellwith this show? My journey? I
was? I was. I wasintrigued. I started off intrigued. I

(03:13):
was on an episode of Always Holdon Star Wars. That's right for the
premiere of the of of this show. And I and on record as saying
that I was intrigued. I seewhat's going on. I would like to
know more. That was That's whereI left it, right, because the
first couple episodes weren't bad. YeahI was, and again giving it the
benefit of doubt, I see what'slike you got to this is a slow

(03:36):
burn. It seems like it's goingto be so let's see what they come
up with now at the finish line. I don't know what they were doing,
aside from a couple of things thatthey've made very very obvious in the
show that we'll we'll talk about.But there's a lot of questions that are
left, and a lot of thesequestions are not positive ones. One of
the questions I kind of come awaythink asking is do they the people writing

(03:59):
this, like, do they likewhat they're working with? Do they do
they like this universe? Do theylike the lore? Because a lot of
that's If they did, I thinkwe'd have a different product. But instead
I think they like, yeah,we have the Mandalorian season one and two,
but like, but you know whatI mean, though, it's like,
we what we got in this isa lot of the stuff that I

(04:23):
really do not like in Hollywood,which is this over emphasis of the deconstruction
and over litigation of things. It'sand to the point where it's just like,
so, what is your endgame withthis? Why did you want to
spend all this time in making somethingif all you wanted to do is deconstructing
and you eventually come out and tellus that you don't like it, you
don't believe in any of it,So what so what was the point?

(04:44):
What did you want to say,who's your main characters? Why do they
change every episode? Who's important,who's not? Where are we? What
are we doing? What's Yeah?So it's like, you know, it
was overall it was very clunky.There's there are some cool stuff in there.
There are really good fight scenes inthis, which I really appreciate.
There was one good, solid episode. There was the same episode twice in
this in this series of eight episodes. So again, just utterly confusing,

(05:11):
and it's just like, so whyBut unfortunately, like the last question that
I kind of have in mind,like you on this brief intro of this
is so so, what was theirend game? What do they Why did
make this show? If this iswhat it was going to be, if
it was going to be this clunky? Once you see season two, Oh,
your questions will be answered. Okay, now shut up. Oh I'm

(05:33):
sorry Drake. You guys did heliterally leaped out of his chair. I
have never seen Joe. We havedone sixty episodes in Oh god, no,
you're good. That was great.Jumped up at that like the Bears
just won the Super Bowl? Didthe Super Bowl shuffle? More like they

(05:54):
lost? That's how he jumped upthere? It is there it is,
so we're real quick. From megoing in this, I was like,
okay, another Disney Star Wars,Disney Plus Star Wars show. We'll see
first two episodes that they air himtogether. I'm like, okay, fine,
Like I thought, honestly, Ithought it looked kind of cheap,
you know. I was like,this is the the TV budget Star Wars

(06:16):
you're always worried about, and they'rejust like so that was my main takeaway,
like my mean criticism, because like, you know, the Star Wars
has always looked you know, italways has been a big budget thing,
and and and and and some ofthese Disney Plus shows look fantastic, like
and or right, except for theno no no breaks. George Lucas's vision
had no hardware whatsoever. And theconstruction that's all inside stuff, if you

(06:42):
know, the discards and the fantomthat's an inside joke there. But I
was like, okay, whatever,you know, I'll I'm not this doesn't
grab me. And I like,I like Soul. That's a cool character.
He's gonna be my favorite character.I like him like he was the
one stand out to me in thefirst episodes. The episode three happens,
You're like, what the hell isthis? And then because they tease this
stuff that happened, and then youwatch it, you're like, oh,

(07:02):
well, that's that's kind of exactlywhat they said happened. So I wonder
why they showed us this splashback toreveal what they'd already discussed. That's that's
strange. I would argue the fourthepisode is the worst because it's like the
shortest and then it just it's peoplewalking in the woods. And then it
ends and I'm like, oh,well, clearly somebody said we need more
episodes, so let's cut this episodein half, which is exactly what the
Because episode of five, I thinkis probably the best episode was a pretty

(07:26):
good fight scenes and and things likethat. Hey, credit to them for
killing off characters. I didn't knowLightsabers could kill anymore. I thought that
it was like a Disney rule.But that's been that's Lightsabers re lethal again.
Oh man. But by that wegot to that time we realized that
this show was not clever whatsoever.Like everything everything you think they're laying out
there and they think you've been realclever, Like, oh, it's this

(07:46):
goofy guy in the sith. Yeahhe is it's like, oh, well,
then then I know what we're dealingwith here. Then Episode six was
probably the most intriguing episode. I'mnot gonna say it was the best episode,
but like all this stuff with Kaimerand his just philosophy and stuff,
now now the danger of that,and my my, what I started to
suspect with the show was they're goingto say, you know what, the
bad guys are actually right, andthe and the good guys they're bad and

(08:09):
we're gonna show you. And I'mlike, I don't like that conclusion,
y'all. I'm the dark side.Literally. I think these conversations should absolutely
be had to explore these explore goodevil, right, But in the Star
Wars universe, it's not relative.There is good and there is evil,
and like and and so like thebad guys at the end of the day,
you need to know that they're bad. And we can look, we

(08:31):
love Palpatine, we love Darth Maun, Darth Vader, right, we enjoy
those characters, right, but youneed to understand and you should and you
do in the other you know,shows and movies that that's bad. Okay,
But I suspected they were like,oh, what if there's not bad
though, and what if the peopleyou thought were good we're bad. I'm
like, oh, okay, hey, guys, forget that Kindier just massacred
all these people out of nowhere becausehe has, you know, some interesting

(08:52):
points in the next episode. Itis and what this show is, it's
it's the worst version of the LastJedi. This show has made me have
all new respects the Last jedid thatall? Right? Last great? It's
not great to me from my pointof view, because good is the point
of view. Joy I heard thatone, but at least I was like,

(09:13):
Okay, everything they did there,I was like, I don't know,
like they did even worse here.So and then you get the episode
with seven. It's another flashback likeLancet, the same episode twice, but
it's like that I don't want todo it, but I'm curious to do
it. I'm like, could Iedit those two episodes together and then make
a normal episode of television because it'snot like, because there's a lot of

(09:33):
talking about Raschamon, right, andall the different points of view stuff,
you know, that's not what thiswas. I don't think that's I don't
think that means what you think ofyeah, because because to get the last
Jedi is rassaman a right. Thosethe the those scenes where Luke Scarwarker was
gonna kill his nephew in to sleepmy favorite scenes of all time. Three

(09:54):
different tellings and points of view ofsomething what Eppisode three and episode seven were.
The show were like, oh,yeah, here's a bunch of scenes
we didn't see in episode three,and you can easily edit them together.
They took context out to make drama, but also not only that, they
changed things that they specifically showed youin three. Yeah, Russiamont no sounds
just anyway. So then we gottime. I didn't know what to expect

(10:16):
emisode eight, and I still don'tknow what I just watched. And I'm
looking forward to just being part ofthis conversation with you all. So that's
where I am. I just wantto give you guys a flyver where I
was hadn't been talked about this atall, but here we go. Let's
share with everybody what did happen inepisode eight, and then we can all
share some more enlightened certain points ofview. I'm very enlightened. The Acolyte

(10:48):
Episode eight written by Jason mccaliff,directed by Hannel Culpepper, was released on
July sixteenth of twenty twenty four.Osha has a vision of apparently May killing
Soul without using a weapon and thehead to break out to find them while
being watched by Darth Plagus. Thereit is, It's official spoilers, what

(11:18):
was he doing? He's there,just a creeper. I didn't even read
this before I started. So onthe ship, May breaks free and escapes
because she knows exactly how to workPIP. She's just she's always known him
because they're one. So they escapedto Brendock and in an escape ship,

(11:41):
not an escape pod, while sheis followed by Soul and then crash on
the planet. Vernestra gathers a groupof Jedi to head to Brendoc. In
Brundoc, Soul, Chimer and Oshabegin searching for May. Inside the fortress,
Soul and Chimeir begin to fight asdo ocean May. May arrives and

(12:01):
disarmed Soul, but chooses to lethim live so he can confess before the
Jedi Council. Soul reveals that sheand Osha are the same person. Osha
learns that Soul killed her mother killshim musing the force and corrupts the kyber
crystal and Soul's lightsaber. Osha andMay escape together. Upon arriving, Vernestra

(12:22):
discovers Soul's corpse. Osha and Mayreconcile when they are found by Kaimeir.
Ohsha agrees to train with him ifhe lets May go by erasing her memory.
I'm corussant. Vernestra blames Soul forall of the events that occurred on
Brendack. Vernestra reveals that Kimer washer apprentice. Vernestra visits Yoda to tell

(12:43):
him everything. And now that that'sthe question, though, was she going
to tell him everything? Oh we'llfind out in season two, everybody if
she tells of everything that is horriblefor the overall war of Star Wars,
right, well be yeah, let'sI'm gonna strike. I feel like we
should strike that and trust season twokind of like making Luke Skywalker kill his

(13:07):
nephew. Well, yeah, Iwas gonna say. With that said,
though, that's exactly what they're goingto do. They're gonna have a Yoda
versus Plague's fight in season two.You know you heard it here first,
Oh God and that's how he findsout the rule too. I will you
know what, Joey's gonna quit theshow if we don't stop. Guys,
that's shoe. I'll I'll do somethingI don't know, search your feelings,

(13:30):
Joy, you know it to betrue anyway, No, that was a
very thorough That was a very thoroughWell. Normally we read these and we're
like, yeah, that was thatactually made the episodes sound better. This
made the episode sound worse. Thatdidn't make any sense reading. This was
the first one where it doesn't soundbetter. I want I wonder if they
like update them before we actually recorded, because now we're like fresh out of

(13:52):
it, so people just watched it. That is what happened. That is
what happened. Why would you whywould you even I understand it's a summarye
right, but why would you evenmention Darth Plagas in that dark plans and
Yoda because that is the only thingthat people are taking out of this episode,
and that's why everyone thinks it's great. People are yes, we're so
back of Pagas. I can't waitto see Yoda fight Darth Plagus in season

(14:18):
two. It's all leading there.Failed I have one last thing about the
breakdown before we get into the review. I did find it funny you talked
about the escape ship, so jesShe was like, how many pieces of
ship can come off this ship tofly? Well, we've seen we've seen
that perform rebels escape ship that She'svery clearly said that didn't have hyperdrive.

(14:43):
I don't know what you're complaining about, are you? Guys? You just
said here, you nitpick these shows. You know, we're just here to
have a good time. This is, this is, and how negative you
guys are all the time out StarWars. You're right, You're right.
I I am. I cannot believeI am the problem. It's point of
view time, everybody, It's apoint of view time, guys. Let's

(15:03):
get to the point of point ofview. We want to talk to us.
You're going to find that many ofthe truths we cling to depend Rick
Leona our own point of view.Why didn't you tell me? I just
heard that. He said that He'sgonna say it now all we want to
talk to you. Oh, therewas a pupil of mine before he turned

(15:24):
to evils. Oh God, glad, I'm glad. I Star Wars get
herm anymore. I told you guys, yeah, this is It's cathartic for
me. I love The Last Jediand you know what, I love the
Rise of Skywalker. Those are bothfine, that's your I don't understand how
you like both of those, Joey. I think you have to pick a
side. No, I'm saying now, I'm just saying in general, like

(15:45):
you can do people very narrow asI understand it. I I'm there are
people that like Rise of Skywalker.There are that's a different podcast thirty eight.
Anyway, we are clearly all overthe place and have many thoughts.
I think we need to start fromthe beginning and just go through the episode
talk about things as they happen.You know, Chris, you know what

(16:06):
should have started from the beginning thisshow, because yes, I think somebody
said that. Yeah, we wereall saying, you guys are saying we're
talking about on the chat, youknow, this whole time, and this
I mean I was, I thinkI was. I didn't get there when
I was talking earlier. But thisthe Kevin you mentioned story structure out in
these conversations, and uh and andall you kind of laid out, Hey,

(16:26):
it should gone this way this storystructure of this season maybe series if
they don't get to when they releaseAccolae the complete series on Blu Ray,
that's when we'll know it's not gettinga season two. But we don't know
if it is or not. Butit's just so I mean to me anyway,
it's so obvious, like you shouldhave started with episode three and seven

(16:48):
together, and you guys have saidall this not saying stuff, but then
especially seeing how they ended it whereit's like all the momentum from episode six
with Kaymer and all that stuff,you know, it's gone in episode seven,
and then it's hard to kind ofget back into here in my opinion,
because we thought at the end ofepisode seven, Saul's gonna tell,
may you know what happened simultaneously whileOsha like sees what happened through the force

(17:08):
with the helmet on right, Butapparently it makes sense. Apparently none of
that occurred. So there was theseflashbacks on a you should have just done
the first episode is three and seventogether, told everything straight through combined four
and five, and you have yoursix episodes Star Wars Disney Plus show,
which is what they usually do.But I think the mandate came down,
he got expended. Anyway, Well, as you know, Osha should have

(17:30):
been able to use a force echobecause people can use these force powers without
any training. Just willy nilly,m for notially use the force EACHO.
That was cool. We'll get there. Yes, but we should start at
the top, because that's how youshould. Let's say you should start.
How did this episode start? Iforgot? Okay, so we're it starts
with Osha in the helmet because she'sbreathing. Before it even starts, she

(17:52):
does the force possession of Kaymer,who fights through it to take the helmet
off of her. She sees afuture vision of what she thinks is May
about to kill Soul without well holdinga lightsaber, but without using the force,
which we now know. I knewthat was going to be the other
one by the way. I waslike, oh, that's clearly Why didn't
we see that vision? No?No, right, it's an episode three

(18:15):
things. Would it would have ruinedthe surprise? Well no, because they
look exactly like you just shoot itlike they did in episode three, where
it's like you can't really tell what'sgoing on. Yeah, Osha has the
gray Jedi clothes on and May hasthe I'm good in white Now. What
was happening was to the helmet?Was the helmet like collapsing it on her?
What was going on there? Itgets rid of all her senses,

(18:37):
so she just her in the force. He's very very strong in the force?
Am I the only one that thoughtlike, oh, it was like
taken over? And he was tryingto take it off to help her.
That's what I think that I tookit as she was like doing what her
mother did to the other Jedi becauseshe was being so strong. She was
possessing him because he had the yousaw him in real time in the time

(18:59):
with the eyes and then in thepossession thing without them. But he apparently
knew what was going on, sohe could take the almond off. That's
why. And then but you don'tsee no point in that time? Do
you see the vision? She says, she just saw. That's why there's
no point. Do we know Chimer'sconnection to them and how he finds I
do have a question about that though. What was happening to cut like we

(19:21):
saw mother and say possessed Torben andshe was just kind of talking to him
like tempting him. What was likewhat does that do? What does that
mean when you do it to someone? What are you doing to them?
Oh? She doesn't know what she'sdoing. Annasaya knows what she's doing and
can control everything. I think Oshawas just finally tapping into something that's always
been there for her. Okay,but she didn't know what to do with
it. Gotcha okay, but itwas hurting. It was hurting. They're

(19:45):
probably also like a clone. Andif you will love mother and to say,
is that like what we're going toget to right? Cloning? Dark
magic secrets? Only the Sith dojoy? You would you would call them
a seth, wouldn't you? Somewould call me that? What? What's
Chymeer's motivation? And what is Kimer'smotivation? Why? Why? Why is
Kimer he's attached to Osha? Wantsto train Osha and she says absolutely no

(20:07):
way, but then wants to goget May. Why does he care?
Now? Still? Okay, thishas been my problem with this entire show,
you know, and you guys havetalked about it something too. Uh
these characters, Yeah, I don'tunderstand how I even think. I don't
understand in their motivations where they're comingfrom. What they're doing, they make
completely like like keV said, becauseof the script. Because they have the
script, why do they make thechoices they make. I have no idea

(20:29):
good story constructions. You have characterswho have objectives and they come into conflict
with other characters of different objectives,right, but I don't know what any
of these people want. I havenever thought that denying the Sith was like,
are you sure you won't reconsider?Are you sure it's confirmed he is
a Sith now because he is darkplague As apprentice? Yeah? Is he

(20:52):
is? He? Well? Ofcourse, alight. I don't believe they
connection there. I don't even thinkhe knows Plagas is there. This show
has done nothing to hint that hehad a master or there's anyone else on
an island. Just to show atwo second frame of a guy that Internet
nerds like us to be like,is not storytelling. That's getting a viral
post on Twitter. And again,I think I think his motivations are pretty

(21:15):
clear. I think they're pretty It'sit's also pretty evident what he's what his
motivation is. He's trying to getin there. That's what it is.
Lance, you know what you know? That's what it is. He's got
that Oliver Queen in him too,dog in it. Well, we get
some new music in Star Wars.I weren't there playing some Imagine Dragons.

(21:37):
Yeah, hey, they got anew album out shout out to Imagine Dragons.
Okay, So what happens after wehave May and Soul on the ship
and Pip and Bazzl doing what Idon't wait? Wait, so here's what

(22:00):
happens. They and still are talking. May breaks out and stun stole but
stun Stole stunt but it really doesn'treally do anything. She runs to the
escape ship escapes. They have aextended chase scene through who knows what hellow
us in there, where he isliterally on top of her the entire time,

(22:27):
but can't get a target lock untilalmost the end, just in time
for Basil to suddenly out of nowherethe ship. Why there was nothing,
it didn't come back at all wasbecause I was waiting for the reveal of
him working for the bad guys alot of the time, which would have
also been done because the whole timeI'm watching the show, I'm like,
you know, you know when peoplesay jar jars is the problem with episode

(22:48):
one he's not by the way thatpeople say that, like, we could
just edit him out, it'd bea good movie. Up until this,
I was like, if you justedit Basle out, nothing changes. He's
stupid, he's terrible, but he'ssomehow he's working for the bad guys,
right who knows? Who knows saysit was kind of cool he was when
Basil did that. Jessica said,Basil is a bad guy. Master,

(23:11):
Basil's the one that warmed him,or about about may Ocean. We don't
know that though. He was juststanding there. I think, whatever,
Yeah, but then does he evertalk to Soul every because you know,
why say it? You know,he broke the script. I know I
know the script because after Basil sabotagesthat ship and they land, Soul just

(23:33):
walks off and Basles in the cockpit. I'm like, what the hell,
man, why did you do that? He put the little transponder on.
I thought Basil was going to turnit off or something. I would,
yeah, I would take my lightsaperaround and just let you know, like
gone, calcastus, like about Basilis just a little creature that you just
come into. Just take him out. That's because then they used Basile later
on, because then the Venestra's print, Basil, what's up, man,

(23:57):
we help us out. I'm like, oh, they keeped old see it.
There's gonna be a turn here orhe's doing No, they just don't.
I don't understand this show. Theplot conveniences frustrating his health. Like
he's like, he's Soul's explaining.He's like, oh you're you're in the
fourth and then he gets He's like, you're not sisters, you're and then
he gets done. I'm like,I swear to god, I've never seen

(24:18):
any television show even more than Smallvilleknock people out at key times to stop
information for being shared. Zach Isaid it. I said it last episode.
If any character opened their mouth andspoke, the show would be done
in fifteen rites because because then sonot only is the contrivance of like him
getting the stunned so she could goin her escape ship and then he would

(24:41):
obviously have caught her in the othership. But then, oh, Basil's
got to destroy the space ship orwhatever? What is going on here?
Hey guys, guys, wait,wait a second, wait a second,
he has the force? No,why doesn't he just like pull her with
the Force for this, for thesame reason that they need a tracker to
sense Jedi all of a sudden,right this whole planet, let's get let's
get the German shepherds out here toget a sniff after he already established that.

(25:04):
Both Soul and Vanessa the first timethey get on the planet, they
just sit there do the caption says, force worrying, and they sense things
and know exactly where to go.Yeah. Also, like I've had this
is one small thing about Star Warsin general. The fact that it's on
this show makes it worse the wholelike crash landing when you're just flying around

(25:26):
an entire planet and like, oh, I'm like, we're like five feet
from the temple where this big thinghappened. Yeah, I mean, I
don't I'm not gonna I'm not gonnalie. Star Wars has done that since
the beginning, like the you know, the escape pod on Tattooine Lands,
you know, and a reasonable distancefrom that was in the middle of the
desert. I mean, that's abig planet, but it's on the side

(25:48):
of the planet that you can getto moss idlely, not like they were
in that Sanda Crawler I don't know. Star Wars has always done this.
How long would it take you towalk to Asia? I don't know,
Oh movie is that? Is itvenom? It's Venom right, like the
cratches in like Asia, and itwalks all the way to America or something.

(26:08):
Am I crazy? It travels?Oh my goodness? But I just
like the setup was right there.And I'm not saying because they didn't do
this that the show sucks, butthe setup was right there for like Cime
heer to tell oh show what happenedfrom that point of view, and and
saw to tell them from that pointof view. We could have saved so

(26:29):
much time. Neither of those conversationsright, but neither of those conversations take
place, and we could have hada little bit of fun like going on
a random of Jedi adventure like withsome of that time, like hanging out
with the Ord Horde, like I'mjust doing a pouring out for you,
wrowing out for your John, seeingthem be Jedi, Like I don't seeing
Jedi be good guys for a fivefive minutes of the movie. No,

(26:52):
we can't have that along the sametime, then I'm going to mix up
some of the Vernestra stuff because Idon't know when it gets breaking up.
Okay, they did too, Man, you're good. Nowhere we also have
May and Kymer. They somewhat argueover how are they're going to get to
where they're going to go? Because, oh, say May, Osha' literally

(27:17):
she saw the vision knows where they'regoing. Chymer wants to go and has
a ship. It's like, howare you gonna go? I'm gonna take
my ship? What are you gonnado? Oh, I'm not gonna tell
you unless you take me. Areyou the same line on Jess You're gonna
get home from a movie? Ihave a car. They realize that Soul
is already there, or Soul andmaylready there, and Osha says, oh,

(27:40):
there's a landing port. You can'tgo into the thing, but there's
a landing part. How does sheknow this? They weren't even allowed to
leave eight years old. Eight yearsold, they weren't even allowed to leave
the company. I would like toknow how she got off the planet.
Still, yes, when she wasa kid, I was waiting. I
was waiting for the scene. Theflashback scene for Kymier comes and finds a
little girl no you don't get thatthat would have made sense, which would

(28:00):
have been creepy, but no creepierthan Soul being in love with these little
girls. Okay, right. Shealso teased that she was going to say
how she got out. We don'ta little shaft. Yeah, we don't
care how you got out of thefortress. I want to know how you
got off the planet and got towork. Anyways, I thought that tree
was gonna have more significance, rightthe tree. Yeah. I thought the
tree was the Virgins, but itcould be we don't know. When Kimyera

(28:21):
season two, Kimer and Osha,When Kimer and Osha are leaving and Kimyer's
once again for some reason, politelyasking her to join him instead of just
killing her because she's not going to. She says, I am not my
sister. I will not join you. Bookmark that because ten minutes later it's
going to change. But don't worryabout it again. She has been steadfast
in this since the beginning of time. I want to be a Jedi,

(28:45):
mama, that's what she said.Was just eight. Yeah, and she
hates the Jedi. How she knewabout the Jedi, I don't know,
but she knew about them and shewanted to be one. They talked about
him in the Witch Covenant all thetime, a very positive light. Yeah,
so much so. She knew howto dream the image she had.
She had a sketch book full ofart. I don't know. Here's what
people would say to your defended.Can't they be like, well, you

(29:06):
know, Anna can want to bea Jedi? Why? Why? Why
is that? Okay, I don'tknow, because he's because he'd listened to
people from the galaxy coming right inand out of He's a slave dreaming about
a better life. He hears aboutthese knights to go on to adventures.
He wants to go see all theplanets like this anyway, So that's that.
And then also, okay, sosome of the Vernestra stuff. She's
back on Corissant out of nowhere.Last we saw her, she was on

(29:29):
looking for Soul and all them onColko far Yeah. Oh, hey,
I'm glad that. I'm glad theyhad that. The caption that let us
know his Coorissant by the way,that was very hopeful. Yeah, unknown
city planet. And then so weI I didn't you guys had learned that
that David Herder was going to bein this So who is she meet with?
But yes, Martian man on herhimself, and uh, I get

(29:52):
I think I think Kevo's me twentydollars. I was talking about this.
I had forgotten that he was goingto be on the show at all,
David Herewood, And I think youthought he was going to be this hif
it makes sense just him being arandom character in the last episode of the
season, that's the problems have somesignificance. He still might be who knows
already, I tell you anymore,I saw in the future that one Jedi

(30:15):
was gonna go rogue and take themall out. That is not and that
is an oversimplification. So here's themajor problem. So his character, he's
a senator who has a problem withJedi. It seems personal like I was
waiting for the backstory of like somethingthey didn't get into that season two.
We'll get there in season two.You cannot have the character who is like
the mission statement of the show showup in the last episode, right,

(30:38):
yeah, Because this is the thingthat really and this is probably the thing
that again rubbed me the most wrongabout about this is like you have a
character come in and the last episodeof the season to spell out the thesis
of the creator, and like thecreator's thesis could be more clear, like
she does not like the Jedi,she has this ill temper towards them and

(30:59):
made the entire show to over litigateand deconstruct them. Yet once again the
only stories that apparently that we're gettingnow in Star Wars and now the prevailing
thought about Star Wars throughout like lotsof fandoms and you like you look at
the chatter and stuff, you lookat lots of people's critiques and their think
pieces and all this other types ofstuff about him. Is this overly deconstruction,

(31:23):
deconstructive and over litigation of how theJedi are this corrupt and bad organization.
And it's like if this is thesame vein and these talking points are
in the same vein of it's like, so why do we need superheroes.
It's the same thing of like ofthe things that we talk about, like
or the things that we're talking aboutin Watchman. It's very Alan Morrish is
like, well, yeah, thesepeople suck. Actually it's like and they're

(31:45):
actually this, this is this It'salso in the same vein of well,
Bruce Wayne doesn't help anybody. Allhe does is just beat up poor people
at night. It's the same veinof like, well, why doesn't he
just use his use his money tohelp Gotham instead of just beating up poor
people. It's the same type ofthing. Is that it's the same deconstruction
is overly simplified thing that misses thecomplete point of things. That's what's going

(32:07):
on. And it's like, arethese the only types of stories that we
can tell because like, like alot of my beefs in like you know,
with Hollywood systems and stuff like that, is they do so much formulate
stuff and they tell the same typeof stories all of the time. And
you know, for a while,people wanted to blame superhero movies and blockbusters
and stuff like that for ruining stuff, but it's like, no, y'all
been ruining your own your own productfor years now by doing the same shit

(32:30):
over and over and over again.And then so like, not everything needs
to be a deconstruction is thing.Not everything needs to be a oh man,
this person, this this quirky youknow, you know, eccentric individual
is going through something and bad ontheir innerdemons and they're going down a self
destructive path, like how many moviesare that? About all of them?
Right? Or you'll get like,so you see what I'm saying here,

(32:51):
and so what's going on with withwith Star Wars. It's like, let's
have an over litigation about the Jedi. Let's have a conversation about the Jedi.
It's like, this is not HelpingtonPost. Why are we doing this?
Every every single thing it's about likethis, everything is about that.
It's like my my column for theathletic, my column for the like that's
what this is. That's what it'sturned into. I just want to say,
I just don't want to say onething about this. Everything I totally

(33:13):
agree about, like the let's constructwith Jedi. But even so, even
if you wanted to engage with thatthought, like I don't, I'm not
afraid of engaging with that idea becauseyou're engaging that properly, you'll you'll come
to the conclusion that no, thatis a flawed idea, and let's let's
explore that and show you why you'rewrong. That showed un't do that,
nor does it even set this upproperly. Again, last, as you
said, introducing this guy in thelast episode. Yeah. And the thing

(33:35):
is those conversations have already been had. We had the prequels already, like
we we understand this concept, right, we understand that like they were flawed.
We already understood that, right,and and and what helped with that
was that there was a balance becausethe characters that we rooted for were the
ones that we wanted to root for, and they were the ones that ultimately
did the right thing. Obi Wanbroke rules. Qui Gon broke rules,
right, Like you know, thepeople that we latched onto, like the

(33:58):
other Jedi and stuff like that andbroke some yes, but like the characters
that we rooted for were like,we're in this system, this this you
know, this this flawed system ofthe Jedi order. But they broke rules
and we were like, yeah,we're on Like they should be more like
that. We like Ahsoka because shebroke the rules and she was like,
she showed us what they're supposed tobe. The good guys, the people
that were supposed to follow did whatthey were supposed to do. They were

(34:21):
good and they were shown as beinggood in it, even though they were
part of a flawed system. Right, That's what a lot of things that
like that have these types of That'swhy we can watch cop shows because ultimately
those cops are the ones that eventuallydo the right thing. We could watch
Olivia Benson and understand that she's notlike the cops that like that, like
that we know are are cricket andbad. We can watch her and be
like, yeah, this is anexample of this is what we want cops

(34:44):
to be. Like that's the reasonwhy that little kid who who was lost
their parents in real life ran upto freaking Olyvia pen Center and like and
thought that she could help her becauseshe's a good example. Right. But
like if this creator, we're creatingthis show like Olivia Benson would be like,
you know, kidnapping kids and youknow, and doing all this stuff
that they do in Chicago PD,It's like it's a different show. Shout
out in Chicago. You can shownuance, Like like Stabler was always kind

(35:07):
of a hot head, right,but at the same but he was a
good guy at the end of theday, right, And yeah, so
there is nuance to be had withouthaving him do cover ups in conspiracy.
And I just like to say notall Jedi are bad. Just I want
to go on the record saying that, so please continue. Yes, and
if you watch, if you watchthe prequels, right, Mace Windho is
probably the guy who's the most likeI'm going to follow the rules to a

(35:29):
t and it. But he's stilla good guy. You watch the show,
the entire series, and Mace Windhu, you're like, yeah, he's
a good guy. Palpatine preyed onAnakin's weaknesses and and manipulated him to make
him think Mace Windho is the badguy. He's not. He is.

(35:52):
Is he dogmatic? Yeah, yeahhe is. He is. He's like,
this is this is what we needto do. This is the way
you almost said it, didn't youas the resident uh deconstruction This Last Jedi
fan Zach saying like, hey,there are there are spaces for the story.
I don't think we're saying like wedon't need these kind of stories ever.
No, and yeah, and Idon't think it's in either lands.

(36:14):
It's just it's it's just like likein The Last Jedi, you know,
Luke's like in the trailer, it'stime for the Jedi in by the end
of the movie, he's saying,I'm not going to be the last Jedi,
like you don't like that's like,that's why it's okay for me.
This episode kind of like our episodeseven of the show made you think that
they were going to redeem the Jedia little bit, didn't it Like retelling

(36:36):
of the story to make it seemlike, Okay, this these evil Jedi
that we saw in the beginning thatall messed up. They didn't really,
but then they just pulled the rugout from one of that. That's the
thing this episode. They and they, I feel like the people behind the
show are so out of step withlike what people would like. They I
don't know what they thought people weregoing to think when they like to me,
if I'm a Jedi and I seea woman who was you know,

(36:59):
antagonistic towards we turned to a giantblack smoke monster and may start disappearing.
Yeah, who Saul thought was Oshabecause he's like, yes, that's them
explaining why he didn't sense the differenceor whatever. She has a tattoo,
but I guess you can't see you. If you had told the story in

(37:20):
yeah, we would have been like, oh, that's we would have been
sitting here instead of saying like howstupid is that she doesn't that he doesn't
sensor we'd be like, oh,it makes sense that he doesn't sense it,
Like it would have made the rhetoricaround the episodes. We we should
have her with like episode two,two three, like like that set up,
because then it would explain Ester wasso worried about letting people know because

(37:43):
there's this anti Jedi guy. Insteadof instead of having that weirdo nerd walk
in and say, like, allthe senators bothering you again, you could
have just had him on a hollowtalking and yeah, but guys, the
episodes are so long already we hadto cut stuff out. True, true,
true, but you know, butagain, like my point is like
these can't be the only types ofthings that we tell in in in fandom,

(38:05):
and especially in Star Wars, becauseevery single thing that we've gotten so
like for for a while has beenthis that's like, that's all the type
of stories that they're telling. They'vetold those stories with nuanced though before,
and now we're just like, hey, in case you didn't know, well,
I would say if they were ifthey had a lot of content where
it's like okay, other than liketales of the Jedi, which shows,
you know, positive stuff. AthoughDooku does turn the rug side, but
we know the thing is Due isa bad guy, and so we unders

(38:30):
point was right actually, but likeif we had lots of statement right,
then they'd be okay, Like okay, look if there's four shows going on
and the Jedi are good in threeout of four of them or whatever,
right, but it's like, oh, the only it does seem to be
like their their focus is like tearingdown the heroes, which they kind of
even say in this episode, whichagain is the these statement sutbounds. Yeah,

(38:51):
and again I go back to justbasic don't beyond what they're even saying,
basic story construction as you set upthat character, as you said,
can't like dude that episode eight,no doing like he informs why Venestra is
the way she is. So forseven episodes we're like, what does Vanestra
acting like this? Like why doesshe care about what the Senate? I
was like, oh, well,he seems to be a very like targeted,

(39:13):
like he has a he has anagenda, like he wants to destroy
the Jedi, and we don't wantthat. So I would root for Venestra
even getting back to like they shouldhave told it in the Caronlage order,
right. If we saw what Sauland all them did, then we're like,
oh man, like that, yourtension is like when is he going
to tell them? And this episodethree, in that way, we would
have been like, why the helldid Torbin kill himself over that? Oh

(39:34):
I'm still wondering that, like Tom, and like, look Tom and didn't
need to kill himself, okay,like like and also on yeah, I'm
gonna keep change one letter, keepcalling him Tom because it's too close to
Torben. It's so silly. However, though, Joey, you did find
a canon explanation for why kal Nakawould go mad claw mad. If you're

(40:00):
having to peruse wikiped Wikipedia, Wikipedia, or Wikipedia to figure out what's going
on in your show, it's aproblem. So for those of you that
don't know, there is a legendsidea that if Wookies use their clause for
aggression, like attack somebody with theirclaws, they're labeled the mad claw and
they're an outcast of society and areshunned everything. And so the fact that

(40:23):
he did that, regardless of thefact that he was possessed that he did
that to Torbin Tomman. Uh,that's why he went off and went terribly
Jedi whatever. Non, can Isay something about Torben Toman or whatever his
name is, the first of hisname, Tom in the first of his

(40:43):
names. Sorry, he jumped jumpedout of a window. I would have
to. So not only did hekilled himself these two shows, he's in
another movie where he dies like he'sthe new Shawn Bean, like like real
talk. The fact that the showand I don't want to just keep blaming

(41:06):
Leslie because like, yeah, it'sour show, but like other people wrote
the scripts and I guess she approvedit to say, like, hey man,
if you go through a traumatic experience, you should just kill yourself over
it pisses me off as a combatvet because that's something that actually happens to
a lot of people. Yes,And the fact that you're just like when
we see what happened to think that'swhat you think We're going to do that

(41:28):
over something that is that soft ofa thing. I mean, I don't
like to be like I'm insulted orI'm offended, but it's just like,
maybe run through another draft of that. Maybe not tell tell your viewers that
this Jedi was so upset about theevents he did, which when we see
the events, we're all like,Okay, he just quietly decides to kill

(41:50):
himself without putting up a fight ortrying to. Like, his desire to
live completely goes away. But hedoesn't leave the Jedi order or kill himself.
Then, yeah, he's finds silentfor ten years. Yeah, he's
a master by this because he wantedto go home to Chorussant and like,
I guess, live his life again. By the way, yoga Matt in
his empty room, because that's whatCoruscant is. But hold on like,

(42:13):
hold on like. So the eventsthat happened on Brendoc that we're talking about
right, happened sixteen years ago inthe past of this show. Yes,
Toman was was was silent and meditatingfor ten of those years. Yes,
but he was referred to as master. Yes, he had picked up rink.
So what did he do in thesix years after Brendock to not only

(42:34):
become a master and gets so powerfuland then all of a sudden he's just
like, you know what, Igotta I gotta I just gotta, I
gotta, I gotta meditate because Igot beat up by a Wookie that was
possessed once when I was six yearsago. I know what. So I
I was wondering about this and Isaw somebody say something I shared with Chris.
The cover up made them all endup looking like heroes. So he

(42:54):
got a false promotion, so theyall got promoted. No. I thought,
I thought you were going to saythe script but anyway, no,
no, no, no, likethat actually would like like tracts like if
you go back to the Jedi councilorwas like yeah, because they couldn't say,
oh, Master Komnaka did that toto tom In or Torbin. They

(43:15):
had to the scar. He gotthat scar defending them against the witches.
Apparently the Jedi is no longer away of life. It is a career
path where you can just get promotionslike I made Night like he was corps.
Oh my god. It would havebeen like probably one in episode one
where he's like, okay, you'rea Night now. So he still had

(43:36):
to earn master, which I guesshe made an aster better than faster Nannakin
something to upset about. But okay, even if that's the case, the
next question that pops up in myhead is why Are the Jedis cops?
Yes, Well that's my point.Is a career, it's a job now
no longer know they've always been Wellhere's the thing, right, like peacekeepers
the way the story is telling us, like the Jedi were doing their own

(43:59):
thing, so they're not cops nowand the Senate's gonna step in but there
and makes them become cops. Butyou're right, good point. That makes
how many times did somebody pull lightsaberand like the name of the Republic I
arrest you, you know, likecome on, but they only pull their
lightsaber when they're prepared to kill.That's the other thing I don't like about
it. All these stupid rules theyhave now with the Jedill just a bunch

(44:20):
of stupid rules. You could havetold a really cool story about how the
Jedi went from being these peacekeepers tokind of creeping into that like arm of
the Republic because there was this thing. Yeah, I thought, okay,
well, when you when you saycops and stuff, like if they're peacekeepers,
they would go where there's conflict andtry to bring peace. Isn't that

(44:42):
essentially what that is what they're thepolice are. Yeah, I don't know
what you guys are going about cameout. I'm not real police. I'm
talking about Jedi. I'm talking aboutStar Wars. I don't want to talk
real politics. There makes it themetaphors. But that's the point to go
down this whole path, right,Like I work with law enforcement professionals every

(45:07):
single day, and a compelling story. Again, what's what's the regular argument?
A few bad apples, A fewbad apples, because that's the at
the end of the day, there'ssome truth behind that, right, So
let's show the good guys. Thereare so many good guys out there every
single day in real life. Solet's also show in this show. If

(45:31):
we're painting the Jedi in this way, they're good guys. I will raise
my hand. Anakin is my favoritecharacter in this series because of the struggle
he goes through throughout his life.Well, Joey, you don't have any
people he killed when bow up thedust Star. I looked at that.
I know you're Charlie. What's hisname, Charlie Bennett, John Diggle Jr.

(45:57):
I see what we're doing. Isee I see what I took good.
I'm sorry, But at the endof the day, this this entire
story has always been about nuance becauseSpace Hitler gets a happy ending. That's
what there's this whole series is about. So can we please paint the good

(46:19):
guys as good guys? Because againI'm all about, Hey, there's flaws.
Let's let's identify those flaws and overcomethem. I love the prequels,
They're my favorite, but this theain it. I would argue that Space
Alert didn't get a happy ending becausehe died right after, so like he
did a good thing at the end, but that doesn't But that's a happy

(46:40):
ending we're going to see in theSOCA season two. Anakin is space I
thought Palpatine with Space Hitler. Anakin'slike Space Rammel or whatever, right,
Space Mussolini. Yeah, there yougo here he but like this show,
you say, you want to seesome good guys. So initially we thought
Soul was the good guy, andthen by the constructed him, Soul was

(47:00):
a good guy, and then heby the end he wasn't. And then
we by episode seven we thought andDara would be a good guy, and
then by the end she wasn't.That we thought maybe Vernestro would be the
good guy, and then by theend she wasn't. So like they,
like you said, they just cutdown every opportunity they could. Now,
who's the good guy Yoda because wesaw because he's gonna be the hike.
I don't know. I said thatthat little middle school slapfest that and and

(47:25):
Soul was hilarious at the end ofepisode seven, like a middle school bus
fight. All right. So goingchronologically, we get to some of some
of the better fight scenes that we'veseen in this Lightsabers really cool, Okay,
I have I have a seriously distractingcomment about the fight scenes, Like
we've talked about before. Whatever itis about Disney Plus, sometimes they can't

(47:46):
get the lightsabers right. Kimer's Lightsaberhad no core almost the whole fight,
and it was so distracting to me. It was just like more it was
I the only one who saw this. It's like that two or three shots
of Mandalorian season two. I'm like, what's like a green glowstick. I'm
like, guys, like fan filmshave been doing this for twenty five years.

(48:06):
I don't understand why you can't.It's really lightsaber, right, It's
really cool though, how he likebreaking in two pieces? I like,
f that's that's really cool. Ido not mind that. I mind a
lightsaber whip is dumb, and Iwill fight you about it. Yes,
no, yes, it's fine.We'll fight later. I will. I
will fly away on my helicopter lightsaberwith my lightsaber whip. That there's a

(48:28):
reason we only saw it for twoseconds in the show because even they know.
But like that's look, if you'regonna do different lightsaber stuff, breaking
apart big and small, totally fine. But the whip is that's a step
too far. But yes, hislightsaber, if you want to do something
different, I don't mind that.That's cool. It was a good it
was a good fight. The problemwith this fight, though, is we
established Chimer could he wiped out likefive Jedi masters, and for some reason,

(48:50):
Soul is the one guy. Well, yeah, you beat him the
first time too. Yeah, it'sjust that their styles dismatch. Just the
script that's once he fights a characterthat has lines and it's like a paid
actor. It's not an extra redshirt. The fight has to actually happen.
Red shirt get killed. As aStar Trek fan, I find it
funny all the Star Wars fans arecalling these Jedi red shirts now because that's
a that's a Star Trek. Yeah, did you know that? Ken?

(49:14):
No, I have seen I havenot seen a second of Star Trek,
and I know in Star Trek theoriginal series, right, they usually have
four people beaming down on a planetto be Captain Kirk, Mister Spot,
doctor McCoy, and some random guyin a red shirt and he would always
die. And that's where that termcomes from. So it's like the lunch
Table and boy Meet's world. It'slike it's like guy in Galaxy Quest.

(49:34):
Okay, don't her last name?He's I love that the fights, the
fights are cool. I like,I like seeing a soul fight time here.
But y'all, when when May andOsha get together again, I'm like,
I don't I don't understand what eitherof you want anymore. I don't
know your dynamic. I just Ijust don't get it, Like if you
sat down and talked for ten likeKev's keep saying this, any conversation happens

(49:59):
the show in also, What's what'sup with? Like May like trying to
like absolve herself from any responsibility inthis You started with fire Girl. You
said I'm going to kill you yep, said, I don't know. Well,
she didn't. Episode three, episodeseven, she didn't say that.
I'm still hung up on the factthat they were not identical twins as kids

(50:20):
and they are identical twins as adults. I just want to say that on
the record, they're not twins.They're the same person. So they look
the same, shouldn't they. Chris, to be fair, though, with
with with with the Maynosha fight scene. On a technical thing, it looked
really good considering that, you know, obviously there's only one actress and there's
a stunt double that they're having tocleverly hide to cgi her face or whatever
when it needs to it did.It seemed it seemed pretty seamless to me.

(50:43):
I didn't that's where the budget went. Yeah, there wasn't a moment
where I was like, oh,that's clearly not her, Like I felt
like I was watching Maynosha actually fight, so like, that was really well
done. I thought to call outZach for something that he said in them
chat. Oh you were like,you know, I was on understanding those
are private, but let's right nowcoming down you were you were saying something

(51:07):
about how like thank god that thetwo child actors are two different actors.
Why is the adult actor one actor. It's because of the same person.
Now the issue is why not justfind one child actor? Yeah? Right,
oh, well because child labor lawsthen you wouldn't be able to use
them as much. That's it isprobably the reason why. That's that's exactly

(51:29):
it. That's why twins and tripletsplay all the single kids on television.
I know they're just kids. Idon't want to do hard on them,
not the strongest actresses as kids.You could have found some twins that could
deliver that same performance, like whathave you done? What have you done?
What have you done? I'm killyou. I'm like, oh my
god, that's not great. Allthis means is that Lindsay Lohan is the

(51:49):
goat, is flawless. And nowthe other point I had, yeah,
was we we I'm heading the plot. We've brushed by it a few times.
But do we need to have theplagas conversation before we get too far?
Oh, let's do it now,let's suit now, Yes, because
before we go to Mayonosha, becausethat's good. When they leave the plant,

(52:10):
I've seen people speculated it's Octo.By the way, I don't think
it is, especially they've come outand said it's not. Well, the
problem is it's not saying thank god, Leslie, thank you for clarifying your
confusion. It's well, maybe ifthey've just given us instead of unknown planet,
we we see have given it away. True, but they also wouldn't

(52:32):
have. No, I wouldn't haveexactly because like like the we don't know
how what time this is? Whatyear just seen? The movies are like
to B B why I believe so, I don't know it, but like
they they're they're able to change birthdays, so like we don't know what time
plaguets or Tenderbris, which I don't. I don't know any of these stories.

(52:52):
I haven't read these books, soI would not have known that.
By the way, Gods, I'mtwenty seven now, yo, dog,
I'm twenty nine, man, Iwish I could do that. It really
is twenty nine though. That's it'sfunny. So my number one thing on
this whole thing is like, that'sthat's fine. Plagas being the honestly Plagas,

(53:15):
even being a master is at thistime is fine. I don't know
much about Munes. Why does helook old and creepy as hell? He
looks like a vampire right, crawlingon because the dark Side is evil and
maybe maybe it's his dad. Well, here's the deal. So we see
we see Cime here and Osha walkingoff to this ship and we see like

(53:35):
like a little hand come out behinda cave and we see him like,
oh my god, please. Nowhere's the thing. When when they when
they did the sequel trilogy and wesee Snoke right, and it's like,
oh, well, maybe that's DarthPlagas and people are like, no,
he's an alien. He looks likethis. It was like, that's legends.
It doesn't matter. They don't needto do that. They can do
anything they want. They erased myentire childhood Star Wars fandom. They can
do anything they want. So Ithought they don't need to keep to that

(53:58):
look of Placus, right, butI guess and Disney Cannon they're keeping to
it. Right. I'm actually kindof shocked they did that. But also
on top of all of this,the Banking clan can sign your treaty.
We know, yeah, we knowthat what we know what you look like.
If if you're going to elude nowthat that's what you look like,
you're telling me in the next sixtyyears that guy's gonna train Palpatine. Well,

(54:23):
we don't know the timeline anymore,like Chris was just saying, we
don't know that. Like in theoriginally he was alive during the events of
Phantom Menace released right before. Andthat's fine, that's fine, you can
adjust that a little bit. Butlike, he doesn't need to look old
and decrepit. He could just belike a guy and he was creeping.
He wasn't older, he was justcreeping. It is as he looked.
He looked I I he looked evencreepier. You could have just shown his

(54:45):
entire face, because you're gonna getthe same shock if you would have shown
a young, healthy mune the man, yes, the mune, Yes,
yes, you would have creature.The m would have still been like,
uh uh, that's plagus, andthe and the uninitiated would have been like,

(55:05):
oh, who's that guy? Ihave no idea you would have had
the same exact effect if you wouldhave shown him in pure light. But
here's the thing, Like you thinkback to the Chymeer's reveal. Right,
it was creepy in a good way. It was scary, it was menacing,
it was intimidating, it was justlike, Oh, what's going what's
going down here? This was justlike the hell, thank you? Like

(55:25):
like you had to like double takeyou be like is that and this and
for somebody like this, who's abigger deal than Kymier? Yeah? What?
Oh my god? Yes? Whatare we doing? Like the fact
that you did? Did you thinkYou've got to get brownie points with me
for showing a two second shot ofone of the most characters we've been wanting
to see without even less. Isthey wanted like season two, they want

(55:47):
to seas I want a lot ofthings. How many people had to go
to Twitter to find out who thatwas? That's way two seconds of him
in the last episode is because theywant to get you to be like,
oh my god, play guess what'she doing there? Give it a season
two listen. The act life fory'all is a Star Trek Discovery was for
me and the last episode of StarTrek Discovery season one, what do we

(56:08):
see? We see the Star Tripthe Starship Enterprise, and it's like,
oh my god, we gotta getin this exactly what they're doing that I
know? And Lance I called thatbefore I call that, I was called
it in the pilot. We werewatching the PI. Can't wait to see
the end impress. No, youguys are totally right right on with that.
I just like, what do youI'm sorry, Joey, you had
a point, so please continue.I'm I'm sorry by cutting you off.

(56:28):
No, No, you're fine.Superman and Lois earned it. We saw
Lex Luthor walking for an entire episode, and you're like, oh man,
this guy's gonna be the big badin the next season. I honestly don't
have any faith that they're going togive us dark play. Guess is the
big Bat in the next season.Well that's a good segue because I wanted
to bring up what do we thinkhe's doing there. I think he's the
Master, Kimer's the apprentice, andthat's their base of operations. So that's

(56:51):
what I agree. I'll agree withyou. I creeping around the planet that
they happen to be on. Thisis this entire show's understanding is everyone having
conversations after the episode trying to pieceit together themselves. Which is it?
Which is insane for like a show. I have no reason to believe.
I have no reason in eight episodesto even think one that's Darth Plagas because
they don't tell us. No,we had to do it ourselves. Secondly,

(57:15):
if he's there, he has noconnection to cod There's been nothing,
not a glimpse in the background,not a piece of equipment anywhere laying around
and says, oh, that couldbe playing nothing. It's just there to
be like, Ooh, we gotPlagas in the show. Guys, Look
how cool we are. Look howmuch we know about the lore. Look
how much we know we know Plagasexisted. And to jump ahead to where
we were in the episode I thinkbefore we came back was they're trying to

(57:38):
do this whole thing like, oh, but we were really clever. We
we said the line of create life. Yeah, because now jumping back to
the oh, I'm sorry, thesole Timeier fight, that's what they're getting
at, Like this whole planet revolvesaround this virgins in the force. So
Plagas would have dispatched as apprentice tofigure this out because that's what he's trying

(58:00):
to do. Like that could actuallywork if they actually want to fit that
in. I will give them creditfor that, and they should have made
that. The show then tell astory that doesn't rely On season two,
they don't give any indication that Kimerhad any idea of this ahead of time.
He'd never been to brand doc hemade. He was not part of
the flashback episode seven. I'm shocked, and that's where I was broken.
That exact piece. If you pausit here, you can see the exact

(58:22):
moment to go to the play gaspoint. If you want us to think
that he has anything to do withKimier, or that they should have looked
at each other or had any youknow, had some kind of indication that
Kimer even knew he was there,something that he's on the same planet as
them, just watching them do itdo it. I don't. I watched

(58:43):
this right here, and I haveno indication that they know each other,
that they're Master and Apprentice or anythingat all. Chris, I don't think
they know. They're keeping their optionsopen, and that's why they kept as
veg as possible, and that's bullshit. Tell the story first. That's my
number one problem with the sequels,and that's my problem here. Pick a
lane, tell your story. Yeah, so the group chat when Joey got

(59:04):
to the part with Plagas like,is that who I think it is?
And then when we get to theend and you get to Yoda and he's
like, oh funk off. Wait, we knew that was gonna happen,
though, didn't we, like rightin this time period. No, she
said, she's really hard to getthese characters, so they get Kati.
Movie Finestra was on the on thehologram talking to somebody like I know he's

(59:27):
busy, but I got to talkto him. I was like, I
know who that's gonna be. Yep, I got I gotta take an ail
real quick. In the group chat. I was like, no, they
made a choice picking Kyati Moody becauseyou don't you don't pick the guy who
says the sith of the next thingfor millennium. I'm like, Okay,
everybody who's freaking out, they needto calm down because they picked this character
to make a point or what thewhat the hell? Like he's another like

(59:53):
plays like we throw a character inhere that you can know what this guy
looks like. Though was the triggerpeople? I don't. I really think
it was to create conversation, tocreate discourse, like, hey, this
is really going to set the fanson fire if we throw him in there.
The one guy who should not bethere having any knowledge of it.
I was perfectly fine with it.Circle back, like come come back to

(01:00:15):
him, and just like, ohwow, I never thought Soul would do
something like that's all he had todo. Shocked he wasn't at the I
was shocked he wasn't at the endof all the meetings, because that's what
you do, like, is againstof him being here as I was.
You have to, like you said, you have to circle back and confirm.
He's like, oh wow, okay, like just to confirm it was

(01:00:36):
not the Sith at all, andso he doesn't. He's not part of
that at all, right, whichagain the cover up in the public record
of talking to this SI this isthe case. How you get it?
Heys reminds me of started a Discoverygame where they can't talk about Michael Burnham
or the Discovery all that. It'sjust yes, yeah, I've been this
happened to me years ago with StarTrek, so you can't. You can't

(01:00:58):
hurt me Star Wars. You can't. Was like, it's like in the
beginning when they were talking with this, I was like, hey, well,
look like they were wrong. TheSith were around, like you know,
they were doing things clearly, butlike you don't have to let us
know that they knew, Like,well, no, they should know.
Like here's the problem is not thatthey're because they were. The problem was

(01:01:21):
the Jedi where the way they wereand so complacent because they hadn't encountered any
threats like this in a thousand years. Yes, and I would call Chimer
a threat. He's an Avengers levelthreat. Yes, yes, he killed
like eight jedis. That's the problem. It's it's it's the kind of the
Ray thing right and the sequels.I'm like, you defeat kyler Ren every
time, like your power the powerlevels are all over the place with you,

(01:01:44):
like so you can't really get investedin the confrontations, right because you're
like well and with and and it'sthe same thing with this fight. It
looked really cool. I like,other than his lights they were being read
and not red and white. Forsome reason, he could he should easily
defeat Soul because he just like aswe saw him kill like multiple Jedi.
Doubt a problem. Yesterday is thisthe next? What day is it?
What time is it? What isgoing on? I think that this this

(01:02:07):
show took place in less time thanthe Force awakens and the last Jedi combined.
That's what I'm saying. It takesall the things last yet I didn't
like like questionmo or upsetting and thenjust triple down on them. It's like
Ray's cool with Kyle Rinn, butshe just saw him kill his own father
and who was a father figure toher. But now she's like, I
gotta go save his soul. Rightlike a day later, this she just

(01:02:29):
saw. Osha just saw or Maywhich everyone is the same person as a
matter, saw him kill everyone,her friend Yard, her friend Jackie,
all these people next day. Noproblem. Has any Star Wars content ever
ended on a everything is screwed mindsetRevenge of the Sith probably like I'd say,

(01:02:54):
either Revenge of the Sith or Empirestrike back and on the lowest note.
But then they back and like,no, well, Joey, this
this is where you just understanding it, Like the bad guys are the good
guys of this show? Oh noway. I watched Osha violently choked soul
and then the next scene she's cryingholding her sister's sound telling you like I

(01:03:15):
love you, and it's like themusic is swelling like I'm supposed to feel
sorry for this woman who there staringat the sunset holding hands with the with
the bad guy is taking the picture. Yeah, that's when they should That's
when they should have put in theplagate shot of them. And that's where
I was still holding do basic thingscorrectly. It's insane. Sounds like another

(01:03:39):
something I know, DC. Thisshow DC looks like Marvel ads no,
no, no, no, youknow what to be true we're talking about,
you know, this big confrontation.It becomes star Wars ad lib at
the end because because there's like astealmate between Saul and Chymere and then he's

(01:04:02):
and then Kimeer is dead to rightslike Saul has him dead to rights,
and then again like finish the jobthis time right script then no problem may
or Osha again they're the same person, doesn't matter. One of them comes
in and stops him, and thenKimer is like, yes, use your
anger, fulfill your destiny. I'mlike, oh my god, guys,

(01:04:26):
can we not just fill in thebank. He just stands there during this
whole conversation with that's weirdly just standingback there. Doesn't he have I know
his lightsaber was disabled, doesn't hehave that smaller second one. Yes,
no, no destroyed that one.But especially after how many times this episode
did they all mysteriously like disappear?Yeah, I was. Contrivances are ridiculous,

(01:04:47):
and again, like the whole likeGeorge Lucas thing is in the Space
Battles and all of Star Wars.If you go from the Battle of Yavin
all the way to anakinobi Wan,you know where you are in the battlefield.
As the story moves a lot,this show doesn't make sense. I

(01:05:09):
can't have a physical sense. Thinkabout the time. I know hyperspace.
We don't know how long hyperspace is, but we left the last episode.
Okay, Vernestra is on Colfar inthe forest where we know it takes a
whole episode to walk into where sheis from her ship. Yep, she's
there. And in that timeframe,Osha gets or may get stunned, wakes
up, gets a jump, theyget to Brendock, gets a jump,

(01:05:30):
shit goes down, She goes tochoruson, has a meeting with a senator,
gathers all these nights, and thenmakes it to Brendock, all in
that same time period. Okay,I'm gonna interrupt again. I was done
in the High Republic books. Thewhole thing is the Jedi a great What

(01:05:51):
this story serves is a great transitionfrom the High Republic to the prequels.
Okay, Lantam steal from you.Okay, animation matters, right, it
sure does. Books matter too.Your reading is achieving. Lucasfilm as a
whole. You're trying to tell onebig story. You make this huge announcement

(01:06:13):
like we are going to tell anew story of a new era of Star
Wars, of where the Jedi areat their height. It's called it's called
the High Republic. And sure wecan call this the end of the High
Republic because we're telling this later theHigh Republic. We're leaving us plenty of
room to tell the story in theHigh Republic that we want to tell.
Then then pull off your transition inyour big story. What Lucasfilm is telling

(01:06:36):
me right now is the books don'tmatter. This is the beginning of the
story. The Jedi have always beenthis piece of garbage, corrupt organization.
Like no, you you've made thisannouncement that in comic books, in literature,
we're going to have this great eraof the Jedi, and Nah not

(01:06:57):
sucked Jedi or tear. Well,I mean I could have told you that
they don't care about books because allthe books on my shelf don't count anymore.
Joy, I understand the business decision, but then you got to replace
him something better. Hey, andyou haven't done you had business decisions.
I talked about this a few episodesago. Remember when we played kylo Ren's
theme a few weeks ago. Well, it's all season two. It's all

(01:07:20):
gonna make sense, Joy, seasontwo. Oh oh right, it made
sense here they had he was there. It was him and Ray staring in
the sunset at the end. Yeah, that was Ray low energy. Well,
before we are at it, youcould have said the word diad or
something. I don't Well, it'sthe same person. To your to your

(01:07:40):
point about the typerspace stuff, Chris, it's right of Skyworker rules, which
like, hey, you have sixteenhours a go across the whole galaxy.
If they just didn't put these timestamps on stuff. That's the thing about
a New Hope. I don't knowhow many the time period is a New
Hope. I don't know how large. Think it was multiple years, Well
it was least it's a few months. I think that's how Luke was long
on Daga Bag. So you keepit vague and then you can fill in
stories. And because use hyperspace,we don't know how long they were on

(01:08:04):
Best, but we don't know howlong it took them to get there.
And I get mad when people say, don't worry about that stuff. I'm
like, don't worry about that stuff, Like that's the universe you're creating.
If you wanted to be invested inyour universe and read all your stuff and
buy all your merch and like,you know, we'll spend way too much
time thinking and caring about this stuff. Then you need to put some effort
into it. I don't clearly herswet from one scene to the next,

(01:08:25):
but I care if right, youknow these rules that you established, do
you then turn and break them.But this confrontation here, like oh Osha
tells May or May tells Osha thatSaul killed their mom, and I'm like,
oh, now they know. Ithought maybe that flashback was then finding
out it wasn't, I'm not reallysure how she reacts to it. What
what a weird waste time of anepisode? And then so basically it all

(01:08:47):
comes down to the big confrontation anduh come here wants uh may may they
kill souls? And may yeah.May. She's like, no, I
want to. I wanted to confesswhat he's done. Stand try out you
killed her mom did and he's like, well, yeah, but not not
Conka torbin I. He kept sayingI did the right thing, and I'm

(01:09:08):
like, yeah, I agree withyou. But the show, I think,
doesn't agree because he gets force chokedby Osha killing it. They have
this whole thing about killing a Jediwith that weapon. I thought to myself,
well, yeah, of course youcan just use the force the whole
time, and I guess this isthe big reveal. I'm like, oh,
I thought you were the Imperial Marchthere. Yeah, because well it
was obvious because it's like that wasthe final test, right, like you

(01:09:30):
have to kill the Jedi without withouta way. Could she not use a
force choke before? Now I don'tunderstand. I don't know may never Could
she can't? I don't know,Chris, but they can't the place later,
they're standing in the same place.She's hurting the butterfly because that should
be the allusion to the force choke, but it's not because it's a different

(01:09:53):
person, but the person. That'sa great point, right, Kevi keV
help me out here, keV amI being too h so, like I
don't know anything about these characters andmotivations, like I truly don't if they're
this like, what does it meanthat they're the same person. They don't
share memories, they don't share sameabilities, They have no idea what's going
on all the time? What doesit matter that the same person they don't

(01:10:14):
behave like the same person? That'sit, because they're all making they just
don't make any sense, all right? Can we get to the point where
they've ruined this whole show? Yeah, not that it wasn't ruined already.
This the way this ends with mayOsha Kaymer makes absolutely no fucking sense.
If you guys want why they reunite? They together, everything's good. They

(01:10:38):
don't need to go see the Jedi. They don't need to go to the
bad guys. Uh oshaw, whatdo you want? Osha? She gets
to choose what she wants. Okay, she's gonna learn how to use the
force from Kymeer. Why does mayneed her memory whites and to go back
with the Jedi? Why can't theyall go together. Why don't they both
go with a bad guy. Theydon't understand she doesn't want to be with
the bad guy, which because shemade to this because there's five and drop

(01:11:01):
her off on another planet and withher memory and tactics, I'll come visit
you later. This is legitimately aworse mind wipe than the series Maality Smallville.
I'm not joking, you are.This makes no sense they do that.
Remember, there's this whole thing,Hey, the Jedi they brainwashed you,
and I thought we were going tosee something where they alter their memories.

(01:11:23):
They don't. They just never tellher what happened, Like, I
just let's let's talk because I headcanin Smallville for a little bit. I
was like, you know what,because leading into it, when you find
out Lex is going to be there, you're sitting there like, oh,
it makes perfect sense because like heknows who Superman is and he's going to
respect it forever. And it's thisschool wanted that dynamic so much and they

(01:11:45):
just took it away from us exactly. And you're like, wow, I'm
really pissed off about this. Andnow it's like, oh, well that
was fine. Well no, it'snot fine, but I've just kind of
no, it's never bothered me.Well, there there is a line in
the I don't care about these charactersso that you don't the only one I
cared about with Saul and they firstchoked him, they made you feel like
it was a good triumphant moment foryour protagonist character where she fulfilled her story

(01:12:09):
arc. I'm like, I don'tbecoming a good guy. No, because
he should. I did all thisbecause I love I'm like, that's that's
terrible. Well, what she wasattacking me? Well, no, like
she didn't give her a chance.You know. She's like, hey,
so is that true? Did youkill my mom? And he's like,
let me explain, and she's likeshut up, and she chokes him.
And this whole show he did notget a chance to explain because she's just

(01:12:32):
that shut up. And then hehad plenty of opportunities. He continued stunned
and knocked out and kept going offand then and look alone. Ronestra and
Jackie both are like yo, dog, you like you're really attached to Osha
And he's like no, and he'shis dying thing. Is I love you?

(01:12:53):
And it's like, yo, no, you're not supposed to do that.
That's Jed I encouraged to love.By the way, compassion. I
thought about that during this episode becausehe's breaking up Jackie. Because you know
what the worst contribution to Star Warsof this show actually is. It's Jackie's
dumb ass line to Osha in episodefive, like it's an honor when you

(01:13:16):
get to see something transition into theforce. It's like you kidding, like,
oh, I got that off.That's a cool line. No,
it's a ridiculous line because it's likewhenever anything dies or oh that's nice,
you know, like laos a transitionto the force. Yet that's something that
I don't even know how to dothat. I think we're getting on terminologies

(01:13:38):
all mixed up, right, LikeI think she's meaning something because it's like,
oh, they passed on, right, we use that terminology here on
Earth, and that's what they're tryingto say there. But I'm like it's
kind of ironic because she dies,Like what twenty minutes later in the story
is not like a stupid line,it's a cool line. Anticipating a payoff.

(01:13:59):
That's what you say to so money, who's like in hospice not to
like in the heat of battle,people getting moved while going to patrol of
my marines. I don't look athim and say, you know, it's
a great thing to die for yourcountry. Let's go do this. I
would never say that to them.Why would you say that to them?
It's not cool. A good deathis its own reward. There is no
one stays good in this world.There you go, that's that level.
To me, that's that level ofline right there. I'm like, that

(01:14:21):
is so dumb. And and somebodythought it was really profound, which is
ultimately my problem with this show.They thought this show was so profound.
They watched this scene where they're huggingand they're saying the rhyme with each other,
and they and she getting her mindto race, and somebody high fived
and cracked up in some champagne,and they thought, guys, we nailed
it. We nailed it. Andthen as we brought up the last Jedi

(01:14:43):
a few times, we get togo just see Yoda because who the fuck
cares well, we get to seeVenestra cover everything up. Now here's the
thing. She sence his crime here. Obviously we all knew that lightsaber whip.
They introduce that. The same episodewe see a scar. Everybody knew
that was gonna be her. Yes, I said, she's other with the
Sith. She's a terrible Jedi.I guess she's a terrible Jedi by the
way, Yes, yeah, soshe since time here until he put his

(01:15:08):
helmet on, then the needle helmetapparently not. Does she not think he
was part of the that she knowsshe's covering that. She doesn't believe Soul
did this, did she? I'msorry, well, I don't know.
The show is kind of vague,like everything else. She covered up that
cover up with another cover up.That's what I'm saying. That what the
cops do. I right, Sothat type of thing was better executed and

(01:15:30):
is better executed in Chicago. PDNEwith Chicago with better with better characters and
characters that you also want to rootfor. It is in Chicago p D.
Right, he was he was inChicago fire actually, oh excuse me.
Did he get killed or what happenedto him? He got killed.
It was an honor to see himtransition into the forest, which was just
hilarious because he got killed there sohe could go do arrow and then uh,

(01:15:55):
you know that did Tommy not comeback because to go do Chicago?
That's direct. Yeah, and nowhe's on FBI Chicago Actors. Hey,
man, I'm I'm I'm fluid inmy my Dick Wolf universe. Wild Dog
went to ask Law and Order OrganizedCrimes. Yeah, and Jimmy Olsen did
too. Yeah, Jim Olsen jy M j y M G y M.

(01:16:16):
I am Jim. I saw thatonline. I didn't come up with
that myself. So speaking of Supergirl, yeah, well speed a Supergirl.
The Marsha Manhunter is there and he'slike, we need to investigate the Jedi
immediately. So but Basil with waswith this whole Jedi the whole time.
I don't understand, like in Basildoesn't matter. Was your the only one
who could talk to him? Buthe sabotaged the ship? No, he

(01:16:40):
doesn't, there's nothing I don't know. I don't know. We all agree
that he sabotaged a ship, right, yeah, yes, it's going to
be explained. I don't know.He was sniffing around like like I was
like, oh, maybe he maybehe'll be the one to tell like that's
not the right one or the rightjust the right woman, but maybe the
tattoo. Do we forget that hewent and started humping maze leg and attacking

(01:17:00):
her like and Pip who who?Who? Who? Who? May is
great friends with Pip. Now Pip, we're flying around man and she knows
exactly what to tap what, butshe knows that he can do he can
break her out of the the ButPip is an affectionate name, right,
and she just picked up this droidyesterday, calls it when they're in the

(01:17:25):
we're in the watch again, whenthey're in the escape ship. In escape
ship, yeah, she's like,hey, really, yeah, she's hold
on, that's what it is.They share fine, they share those memories,
but not any other one. That'sthat's she didn't read the script,
right, she thought she was beingOsha. I mean, honestly, I
I didn't and again tell me ifi'd be an ob two sir. I

(01:17:47):
didn't see much variation between the twoof their I guess the same person.
Maybe that wasn't this. It blewmy mind when like they're sitting there in
the last episode and she's like,what really happened on Brendo's hall? You
were there, you saw it.Why are you asking him what happened?
One of my favorite. So youheld Jedi. Can we ever take of

(01:18:09):
that? Could you have a littlemore emotion of that? Okay, never
mind, we'll just use that.No no, no, no no,
because because Hans Solo said I'll seeyou a hell and I said it was
some emotion, yeah, but no, no, no no. So they
took the line and they're like,oh, you organize this. This is
just like when Venestra calls in uhmaythe and it's like, I need you

(01:18:30):
to help me find a pupil ofmine before he turned to Evu. Oh
god Jesus, she doesn't. Sheremembers her childhood but doesn't remember her sister.
This is some Chloe season eight mindwipenonsense. Vernestra like, they're like,
hey, have you read the HighRepublic books? I know you get
sick, But also this is adirect disrespect of the concept of the High

(01:18:50):
Republic books of showing the Jedi inthis great light. Anyway, I'm sorry
they did that again talking about herhyperspace. Uh yeah, but don't explain
that to any of us so interestedto read these books directly contradict this book.
This the show Vanessiro is nothing likethis in the in the stories.
It's so weird, like they justdecided to make she carated a brand new
Jedi. Hey, Kevi, Nowyou know how I felt watching the sequel

(01:19:12):
trilogy with Luke Skywalker. Why dothey have her talking to some creepy voice
in that one room by yourself?Kind of mysteriously because it was setting up
the Yoda reveal the end. Yeah, but like, but it made it
seem like it was someone evil.But it doesn't. It doesn't matter because
you know what was cool. Wasn'tit cool when when Osha bled that kyber
crystal and turned her lights over red. Wasn't that awesome? That was That's

(01:19:34):
kind of okay. As I don'tknow Star Wars Lord the way you guys
do apparently that's a thing. Ithink. It's no. I don't even
care. If George Lucas himself didit, I would say it's dumb because
because you know what, when Anakinwas slaughtering children, his blues lightsaber was
blue, and I take back everythingI said. You're right, thank you,
because you talked about his boy Luca. That was a really cool thing.

(01:19:55):
Lucas did an episode three, theblue on blue lightsaber fight. That's
genius. Because that shows you thisis it shouldn't be happening. The executive
producer on this show wrote a reallycool comic book story about how Darth Vader
was sent to go get his newlightsaber and bleed the crystal and all that,
So he should have stepped in andsaid, yo, guys, we
got a problem here because Anakin didthis that he did one bad thing and

(01:20:16):
his lightsaber didn't turn. Yeah.No, I'm I'm upset now. I
was more dumb. It's like,look, she's evil. Now, I'm
like, are you kidding me?Like Corystal, I think that's a cool
I like it better than what EUhad in terms of like findingal though it
was supposed to know she's bad.Now are you Are you supposed to have

(01:20:39):
a relationship with your lightsaber? Aren'tyou supposed to like can match it?
Okay? Appropriate, See how youall are distracted? It worked, Yeah,
guys, Darth plagis here. Episodeone Toys, Episode one Toys.
Yeah, everybody, yeah right here. Remember you get the whole Jedi council
and like half of them have redlightsabers. That fun I got. Speaking
of cod Money, I got aky your money figure because he had a

(01:21:01):
purple lightsaber, and I just neededit to go with my waste window figure
because I'm like, this has gotthe wrong color. So I switched it
up at my little display with mycomputer when I was in high school.
It's true then I just kind ofmoney was just in a drawer or something,
you know, one who cares abouthim. But anyway, that's before
that. The yellow lightsabers, it'sinteresting. They're so prevalent in the show.
I love yellow. I've always pickedin a game. I just think

(01:21:23):
it's interesting. Like Lucas was stilllike read and blue homee Are it's not
for you, Sam Jackson. Andnow there's this yellow lightsabers everywhere. I
don't like have some emotional tie toit. No, I think it No.
I think it's like I don't know, like the people were like,
well masters have green and no.No, I think it just should be
you know what, whatever color,it's fine, Like we should I think
we should see a lot more purpleon it, more yellow, you know.

(01:21:44):
I think you should see a characterbecause the story has told us that
something about your connection to the forceaffects your lightsaber when you're building it.
Because Anakin's Anakin messing with Ahsoka's lightsabersrunning them blue and x y Z like
there should be like a connection ofoh you have this colored light simper.
That makes sense. You're like thisperson, so tell me so, like

(01:22:09):
kind of like like Harry Potter withthe sorting hat. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, for sure. Honestly,that's it is the video games. Again,
you guys know more than me aboutthe Star Wars lowd at this point.
But like the Temple Guard Temple basicallylegend Temple Temple guards for the Jedi
Temple have yellow lightsabers, right,yes, yeah, And I could headcan
and like, oh cool. SoRay's gonna be like protecting what the Jedi

(01:22:30):
were, a guardian of the force. She does have the old Jedi text.
Yeah, so how is Jordan Raysimilar? I I don't know.
So Also this show and Torbin highlightedyou have to kill a Jedi without a
lightsaber. She kills the Jedi withouta lightsaber, and then the lightsaber she
just happens to be holding because shepicked it up, turns red. Why

(01:22:53):
did the light timer need to turnaround other than there'd be some cool thing
on the show that they wanted youto look at, like, oh my
god, it turned red. Thesecond promissor of this show wrote a really
cool story about how Darth Vader gothis light. Save Joey. The books
and comics don't matter. You alreadynotice, Chris. I may be then
answer for you, but it maynot be a good answer. So in
this episode we had David Herrowood chastisea Jedi for not trying to control the

(01:23:17):
force but trying to control their emotionsand how you can't do that because eventually
you'll snap and there can't be aJedi that can have they can master's emotions.
And so you have Osha later whobecomes what we all interpret as a
bad guy, a Sith, andshe is able to be very emotional and
very compassionate and cry and just kindof show you that you don't have to

(01:23:40):
be all staunch and Jedi like.You can be emotional and it doesn't mean
you're a bad person. It justmeans you just were upset right there.
Because after she force chokes Saul andkills them and she becomes I guess a
Sith. I don't know her lightsabreturn red, So I don't know how
you described that. She did notdo anything else bad or evil. She

(01:24:02):
cried, loved her sister, madedifficult decisions, and went on with her
new boyfriend. That's my problem withit. That's my problem with this show,
because like, come here, single, I just want to be like
free broad, like do my thing. I'm like your thing is like bad
you were bad evil Like Indeed,I was sitting there with the argument of
like, maybe he just turned tothe dark side. He's not actually a
Sith. Maybe he's walking on callinghimself a Sith and the real Sith are

(01:24:24):
going to come up and be like, yo, no you're out of here.
But no, no, no,Darth Plagis is creeping behind the corner
because he's his master. That's whatThat's what I how I interpret it.
We'll find out in season two.Joey, Nope, we're not gonna get
a season two. I hope makeyou guys talk about this. Another season
going to be so much fun,so funny. Let's let's wrap this up

(01:24:46):
here, keV, was there anyother before we get into the last shot
of the episode, because we gotthings to say, But keV, any
other thoughts you had? This?This just isn't for this type of Star
Wars telling. Storytelling isn't for me. That's all like, don't don't take
the word star Wars out of yoursentence. There are people that are really
enjoying this. Uh, this isjust not a story that I'm going to
look fondly upon. Its just notdidn't work for me enough. So we

(01:25:08):
get that set up of oh,who is Ernestra going to talk to?
And then she opens up some Jedidoors and it says, oh, Master,
I need to talk to you.We panned down and we see a
little amatronic Yoda puppet from behind hislea years go up. Good think it's
Fade Lance. Oh my goodness.So he is either going to be lied

(01:25:29):
to by Venestra and not be ableto tell, which is its own problem,
frankly, yeah, or he's complacentin this conspiracy or in season two
Joy they'll explain why he knows therule too for the Sith. So it
seems like he's going to be itseems like he's going to be complicit,
and because that's what they're that's whatthey've set up in this. Now here's
the deal, people. You don'tpeople will defend this because let's like,

(01:25:51):
you know what OBI want lied toLuke about Darth Vader. I'm like,
that is a very specific situation ofmy words. People will defend it that
way. After the Jedi Council isalready like, the Jedi are done,
the Jedi are over, and heneeds Luke for a specific thing. Him
and Yoda were using Luke where theywanted to use Leah, but they were

(01:26:13):
using Luke to defeat the Emperor andDarth Vader. I'm going they needed They
don't need him. The Light sideof the Force needs him. Yeah.
With Vernessa going to talk to him, it could be one of two things.
Either she's going to reveal the truthbecause he must as being part of
the High Council, he must alreadyknow what they were going to tell the
Senate, the fact that the ideathat Soul went crazy kill is. She's

(01:26:39):
either going to go tell him thatthat is not true in the real story
of things, or on top ofall this, she's going to tell him,
maybe not telling the truth, buttell him, oh, I think
Apprentice of Mine is still alive.She doesn't have to say how or where,
but that could lead into what thestory is going to be in season
two if they Yeah, they leftit wide open. Do you guys feel

(01:27:00):
like seeing his head like that.I don't think that's a cute cameraon.
I think it's like we don't havethe right to do Superman on Supergirl,
but here's boots and stuff. Iguess, yeah, yeah, connected let
them. Let them have a realconversation that I would actually respect using Yoda
more than just like a prop ofa shiny object to get people. You
know, maybe maybe they told hershe really couldn't have him and then she

(01:27:21):
just threw him in there. Andthis is the question about that though.
Shout out the Jets for this,because as she saw Yoda, she said,
well, after the episode ended out, like, hey, do you
think that Vanestra told him the truthor lied? And she was like I
don't know, and we kind ofwent through both things. She was like,
hang on, she was like,I remember one of the Star Wars
movies like can't She's like, can'tJedi like sense things in the force?

(01:27:44):
Like big events Like she's like,can't like Jeda like sense and like other
Jedi die or like there's a hugeev Like She's like I remember like characters
like being like, oh I feelthe disturbance in the Force. Not he's
things. He's like why don't theydo that anymore? Like I don't,
I don't. I don't know whoseJedi and they used metal detectors to find
versuses in the forest. I don'tknow who these people are. Man people
and Yoda have felt it, andof course not. But he didn't feel

(01:28:06):
this dark side guy wipe out likenine Jedi or whatever it was. I
don't know how many it was.But you're totally right. Everything okay,
And my whole point of view oneverything, as we've discussed, comes from
my prequel centric mindset. I lookat Yoda not as the greatest Jedi ever

(01:28:30):
the story I've been told. Ihonestly feel like he got the eventual Russell
Wilson m v P Lifetime Achievement Award. He just hung around long enough enough,
Like I don't that Honorary Oscar.Yeah, I don't think Russell Wilson

(01:28:50):
is wild Mace Windu is was that. I'm always took it. He was
in charge of the Jedi and theprequels. We all we all assumed it
was Yoda because because it's okay,because that's the one person that was the
main guy. That's why he foughtat the end. He's not he's alive
for it wasn't there he was.He's alive. He just got lucky.

(01:29:13):
That's the only reason he's still alive. Anyway, Ida's alive for eight hundred
I mean sorry, nine hundred years. Eight hundred years when the Jedi end
in the High Republic. This greatstory that jet that lucasfilm is telling us
is so important. He does notappear to be the grand Master. And
even in the book we also readDouku Jedi Lost, it doesn't seem like

(01:29:35):
he's the grand Master at that point. He's just a guy. He's like,
I'm I'm gonna train this guy namedDooku next, Like that's just the
story we're being told. So he'snot this great, huge figure, Like,
no, he's just the guy who'sbeen around. It's his turn to
be grand Master. So why isshe coming in confessing all that unless Yoda

(01:29:56):
is just her bud, like theyare both green, So there is that
connection. I got farther. We'refarther ahead than the High Republic stuff.
Yeah, literally eighty years before Battleof You haven't right, but we've read,
We've read Dooku Jedi Lost, andyears before Phantom Menace Song. If
they don't. They don't say heisn't part of the council, but they

(01:30:18):
don't say he's the Grand. Theywould tell us he's the Grand. Conduity
matter to you, guys, Okay, it doesn't matter. It does matter.
I just thought, like Kati Mooney'sbirthday to me wasn't. But that's
a slippery slope. They changed that. They can change everything. First they
came for Kadi Money's birthday. Okay, gosh. Then they came for the

(01:30:42):
teachers. Speaking of the Jedi Council, I think it's time we get to
the room. Yeah, let's justdo it. I must speak with the
Jedi Council immediately. The situation hasbecome much more complicated. I I was
wondering if you guys are going tobring up that reading you said you're never
gonna use more once I said thislast week. Ten years from now,
if I never rewatched this show,when we don't get a season two,

(01:31:05):
I'm not going to be sitting heresaying I hate this exists. Kevis said
it before the story, that's afine concept with distance. I'll be like,
that doesn't ruin Star Wars for me, as this being the first thing
we ever learned about them, Ijust won't revisit it often. So that's
why I'll say, Apprentice, wegave, we gave the uh with the

(01:31:28):
holiday special pieces? Yeah we did? Yeah? Oh yeah, no,
no, no, no no.This was frustrating, but it's not you
know now, is apprentice? It'syeah. I mean I've been I've been
kind of losing, spiraling out ofcontrol for the past few episodes. You
guys have all got to listen andlaugh at me. This just doesn't make
sense to me. And when Iread people that it makes sense too,
they don't make sense to me.So I guess, uh, it's I

(01:31:50):
feel like that meme of the principlefrom the Simpsons, like am I the
problem? Or I'm like, no, it's them. So I'm just just
gonna keep living in my ignorance.No, it's them. I'm not the
problem. So I'm going to gowith Apprentice OJ Lance and I have to
go. Yeah. I was gonnawait, I was gonna see what Chris
said first, but I was tooOh, I have an idea what Chris
could say. Well, let's seethe holiday special that I was that I

(01:32:14):
was on. Yeah, sure,yeah, didn't I say that that was
banth thea foodoo instead. I don'tthink I even gave it a piece of
sith. I think that is likethe lowest of the low. But oh
man, I'm gonna have to goand I agree with keV and Joey this
is an apprentice. It was.It's frustrating for sure, and disappointing,

(01:32:38):
but it's it's it's nowhere near ifI'm being fair, it's nowhere near the
level of bad that that worse thingsare. But this is it's almost there,
It's almost there. But I'm goingto give it an apprentice. Yeah,
I'm going to respect that the ratingsystem here of the binary rating system
master apprentice, which I do likeyou guys came up with that. That's
a good system. I'm gonna gowith apprentice. I think ultimately, the

(01:33:00):
most frustrating thing is like like ifyou guys have talked about like you have
the kind of raw materials here todo something interesting and tell a story,
but you just like executed, likehe's poorly executed on every level unfortunately,
and uh and ultimately, again I'mgonna go back to this, like I
don't like the message I think it'strying to tell us, but it's doing
such a bad job of telling goodstory. I'm not sure what message it's

(01:33:25):
trying to tell us. But whenthe two bad guys are holding hands after
brutally killing all your favorite characters inthe show, I just don't know how
to feel about what you're trying totell me. So I gotta go with
the Prentice. But hey, I'lllook forward to being back here with a
season finale of season two with ally'all. I can't wait. It's gonna
be good. Well. I wantedto wait till last because I was debating
whether I was really gonna do itor not. I am gonna go piece

(01:33:46):
of set. I'm sorry, guys, there is I'm doing. Can I
change mind? Then? I'm justtrying to. I can't like this show
just progressively declined. We looked forthe good in it, and even when
we had things that I liked,I could find reasons that it wasn't that
good in here, and I've seenbetter in other Star Wars. I again,
I agree with you all that thiswas a great story idea, but

(01:34:06):
they just butchered it start to finishin my opinion, and I just by
the end of it, I wasn'tenjoying it. I was watching it to
talk to you guys about it,and I think that if this was another
show, if this wasn't Star Wars, I wouldn't have finished it. That's
a great point. Actually, I'msorry, and you did say it right
away. You said we're missing aflashback in the first episode. You said

(01:34:28):
it, no awards. No,the real award is award is the friendship
that we made along the way.Yes, there it is. We all,
we all. We all have differentpoints of view of Star Wars and
different preferences and things that we likeyou don't like. But I think we're
all in agreement on this. Thishas really brought the fandom together, right.
Star Wars brings everyone together, Isaid, this episode does. I
will still watch to do Star Warsthings that they put out. I do

(01:34:49):
not think Star Wars is dead.I do not wish that they stopped making
stuff. I just wish that they, you know, try to do just
a basic average level job of tellingthis. Sorry, maybe good, Maybe
it's skeleton. Who are gonna followwhat we've gotten as the formula or no,
which what formula is that of thething that should be a movie?

(01:35:10):
They slice up into way too manyparts of a TV show. That's exactly
it, yep, and then stillyes, yes, that's exactly what we
gonna do. Joy Obi Wan wasthe best example of like this should have
been a movie, and they choppedit up a little bit and it changed
the pace. But I like thestory they told Boba fits similar where it's
like, oh, we ran outof stuff. Do you guys got a

(01:35:31):
couple of episodes of man Lauria's throwinghere? Yeah, sure, no problem,
Yeah, I think no, Ithink, I don't know. Ahsokahead
went eight episodes as well, sothe transition. Yeah, but the last
three episodes were the same thing overand over and over again, which is
kind of annoying. This is thebeauty quote unquote of streaming is things can
be as long or short as wewant. Yeah, they said that over

(01:35:51):
and over about the Mandalorian, abouthow great the vessel was, one hundred
and eighty million dollars budget, andthis entire thing, uh got stretched out
and rushed, stretched out and rushed. Wait, hold on a minute,
what happened to Mother Cora? Well, the Coral, I don't, I
don't care. Season two, WhenI saw the hand, When I saw

(01:36:12):
the hand, that was Darth Legas. I thought it was gonna be her.
But that would have made a lotmore sense, wouldn't it. Yeah,
because I thought she would be that'sa mother Coral. She just evolved
into this creature. As far asI know, I don't know if I'm
a normal person and plagas never exist. You did? You do know that

(01:36:32):
at the end of episode four whenthe syth floated down, it should have
been Mother Coral. Would have madea lot more sense because she's looking in
the face of her daughter she hasn'tseen in sixteen years. You know,
all this guy that ruined stuff forher? Well, yeah, Jedi Kevin
Lance, how it should have endedcoming soon? Yeah, the acolyte.
Anyway, that was Hey, thatwas a very long conversation. There's five

(01:36:56):
of us. We're hot off this, Like I I hope you guys enjoyed
our conversation. I'm glad to bea party. But this is fun.
Like I said, I just kindof wanted to be here in this moment
with y'all. So with any morethan me talking about it, I'm just
fun watching me and Joey absolutely loseour minds. Either are true of the
most positive fans. I know what, I'll respect you for canon positivity.

(01:37:16):
It has a lot that it lostyou to guys, I mean, come
on, thank you. And Isay that as a compliment to y'all.
Yeah, I'm a positive guy andthis show does not make me happy.
It's it's it's it's a new experienceto me, honestly, like I haven't
been. It's irritated with. Yeah, I haven't been. It's irritated with
like something as simple as Star Warsand all to the tally board. We

(01:37:39):
do have a couple of entries.Of course, may the force be with
you. I guess, may theforce be with you? People say,
god, we have one cannon immigrantfor Darth Lay Yes, no, no,
he's in he he is. Theymentioned him in Revenge, but like,

(01:38:00):
did he look like that? Andthat that's all from legend Adam point
five? The look is strict,strictly that would just throw everything off forever
though that's kind of isn't that whatthe show did? Well? Man,
Joey, Joey's fired up, justspitting facts. I am here to vote

(01:38:25):
for zero point five for truth.Lagas is a candid immigrant, do it.
We're going to have point five forlike there always know why, We'll
always know what did that. Thisis the mark the show left, much
like that tattoo on what's her name'shead? They're both the same person,
Mayhoe, Yeah, may According toWikipedia, her name is Mayho. What's

(01:38:45):
the significance of the ceremony getting completeon her? But on the other one
Season two, we'll find out,we'll find out. We're flashbacks. Can't
wait if we have a plus pluspoint five for Candon Immigrants to bring a
nice fifty point five. Did yougo for anything on this I guess not.
No, No, he would havegot Comeback Award, But we're not
giving awards. No awards for this, No awards this episode. We got

(01:39:08):
a plus one for May the Forcebe with You, which brings us to
twenty second Martian Manhunter. Yeah,I like I like him as Marsha Man
Hunter by the way. I mean, Phil Morris has always been my favorite.
But he hits you with a SouthernBaptist bless you. We spent the
past eight weeks talking about this.I'm so ready to get back to the

(01:39:28):
Clone. You know what, whenSkeleton Crew is over, will be teasing
that we're almost a revenge of thesith, Yeah, well this has been
fun. Thanks for having us songguys. Yeah, I really enjoy listening
to you guys talk about all thisnew and old stuff. And I hope
you guys are enjoying Carven your ownniche and that I always want to family
over here in the galaxy far faraway. Indeed, it's nice to be

(01:39:49):
recognized. Thank you. All right, guys, I decided to do you
think a little bit different now?In honor of the acolyte, I thought
to tell the worst Star Wars jokerI can find out of order to get
to the dark side. Why didthe anger jed across the road? If
it doesn't make sense to you,guys, you're just not paying attention.

(01:40:12):
Well what is it? What isit? You say? May the Force
be with you and always hold onto Stop. Always hold On to Star

(01:41:05):
Wars is a part of the Alwayshold On to network, a podcast and
brought to you by listeners like you. For a full list of patrons,
listen to our flagship show, Alwayshold On Smallville, Always hold On Star
Wars. Theme music is by Landslasterand our podcast art is by Matt Truex.
You can follow us on Twitter atalways star wars with one middle less.

(01:41:29):
Follow us on Instagram that May thePod be with You, and you
can send us an email at Maythe Pod Be with You at gmail dot
com. Thanks for listening.

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