079: Andor, "Messenger" / "Who Are You?" / "Welcome to the Rebellion"

Kevonte, Chris and Joey discuss the third batch of episodes of Andor season 2: Messenger, Who Are You? and Welcome to the Rebellion. They talk ties to Rogue One, the Ghorman Massacre, and Syril’s story.

MASTER OR APPRENTICE?
Kevonte: MASTER
Chris: MASTER
Joey: MASTER

TALLY BOARD
Canon Immigrant: 63.5
Droid Saves: 17
Execute Order 66: 5
Heart of Gold: 13
"I Have A Bad Feeling About This": 19
Lost Limbs: 11
Mask of the Sith: 8
"May The Force Be With You": 31
Monster Attack: 36
"NOOOOO!": 9
"No One's Ever Really Gone": 22
Pitfall: 20
Superweapon: 8

Artwork by Matt Truex: dailyknockoff.com

PATREON: patreon.com/alwaysmallville
TWITTER: twitter.com/alwaystarwars
FACEBOOK: facebook.com/alwaysmallville
EMAIL: [e-mail]

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
A long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome to Always Hold on to Star Wars, because just
what the Internet needed was another podcast talking about Star Wars. Tonight,
we've got the usual suspects talking about and Or season two.
We've got Chris hello there and Cavante. All right, So.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Master the show Man, if there ever was one.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
If you're ready for my joke, here we go.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Always hold on to Star Wars.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
We are.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Man, galaxy is watching.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Since Rogue one, I'm just gonna jump right in for
something here. Since Rogue one, this is the first piece
of Star Wars media that made me immediately go turn
something else on and go straight into Rebels.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, oh okay, So like you went it straight into
a New Hope.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, yep, Like yeah, with Rogue one, it's like you
finished that. You have to watch a New Hope where
this is like, Okay, I need to watch find what
episode of Rebels that is and go watch it.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
I think I'm incredibly excited about when the last three
episodes are released, when they're over, just going into Rogue.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
One, Yes, I cannot wait for that.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
I'm so excited. It's gonna be a long day of
watching Star Wars. I can't wait.

Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yeah, I think it was Chris.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
You recently told me I need to plan getting sick
on a Tuesday or on a Wednesday.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Here, you need to plan your sick days better so
you can watch it sooner. So disclosure for the people
that are listening, I tend to be the first one
to see the episodes. Just yeah, the way it falls out,
I'm an hour ahead in time zone wise, and also
just I don't know the way the days plan out,
and Kevin is usually shortly behind, and then Joey you
catch up. But also Joey sometimes you get like one

(02:17):
episode and then you'll get a couple more.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
Still hasn't seen Doonies.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
If I'm having a good week, Wednesday morning, I get
to the gym, and I'll like if somebody there's always
a girl with a ball State uniform. That's my college rivals,
so it just already irritates me. She'll have like a
ball State shirt on and taking up the stare climber,
because that stair climber is the optimal show watching workout equipment.

Speaker 4 (02:40):
Because you can go a little slower but still get
a good sweat.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Anyway, Yeah, so usually I try to try to do
that and get one episode in and then you guys
watch all of them, and then it's the day we're recording,
and I'm like, all right, I get caught up, but.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
That is not the case for this string, right.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
No.

Speaker 4 (02:55):
I got home from work at nine o'clock.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
I think I had gotten changed, got my glass of bourbon,
sat down on the couch. I said, I'm just gonna
watch one episode to unwind from my day, and Chris said,
good luck, just watching one, and then I went to
bed at one in the morning.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah, I just wanted to shout out to my dad
real quick because he did the same thing. He sat
down to watch one episode and we're gonna put him
on blast ye a little bit. My dad can't make
it through anything without falling asleep. And after after a
long day of work, he sat down and watched all three.
Oh man, so wow.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
If it looks good, you know, I'm about to say
that is absolutely a dad thing. To dude. We're three dads.
If we can stay out. This still's keeping us awake
for three hours at the time, that's that's that's good television, man,
Because yeah, no, and I fall asleep.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Man, it's not. It's not an insult as a dad
to fall asleep to something, you know, I you know
I Skeleton Crew.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
Yeah, like I just every once in a while. I
loved the show.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Everybody knows. Yeah, but there were episodes where I put
it on and I made them a stake of extending
the recliner. Oh yeah, life happened.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
If I'm living for like twenty minutes, you start dozing, man, yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
And then and then you wake up and you rewind
and you're like, wow, that was pretty good. Yeah, there's
sometimes I'll watch a movie over four nights because yeah,
turn it on, fall asleep, turn it one.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, you know, and then you know, of course, being
married and watching something with your spouse is it's one
of you fall asleep early and then you thee gets
mad at them for falling asleep, and then another one.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, and I'm a snore, so my wife will just
like throw something at me the second I fall asleep.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Oh yeah, I get smacked. What are you doing? Oh man,
I'm not sleeping. What the rest of my eyes? Yeah, anyways,
we are not sleepy while watching No, no, no, not
at all. This is so good. Let's let's get in.

(04:58):
Let's talk about what happened, and then we can talk
about we think about what happened, even though we've kind
of already shared that, but we can geek out about
it a little bit more. Yeah, all right, Kessel run
Down and Or Season two episodes seven, eight, and nine

(05:22):
were released on May sixth, twenty twenty five. They were
written by Dan Gilroy and directed by Jennis metz So
seven titled Messenger. One year Later, Big Surprise, the rebels
have begun coordinating military operations on Yevin four, where Cassian
and Bis now live. Willman tells them that Dedra is

(05:45):
on Gorman, whose rebel activities have been portrayed by the
state sponsored media as terrorist campaigns instigated by outside agitators,
and Wilman encourages Cassian to help assassinate her, despite his
concerns over the mission being from Luthan. Cassian agrees and
travels with Wilman to Gorman. Bis is told by a

(06:07):
force healer that Cassian will be vital to the rebellion.
On Gorman. Dedra finds her position temporarily supplanted by Captain Caido.
Not really, he still reported her anyways, sent by Partigadz
to oversee the imperial subjugation of the planet, while Cyril
begins to doubt Dedra's explanation of outside agitators given his

(06:29):
interactions with the rebels. Episode eight, titled who Are You?
Caido instigates a protest in Palmo's central Square while closing
off all the available exits and deploying inexperienced riot police
into the volatile crowd. Arriving in the square alongside the protesters,
a horrified Cyril realizes his role in enabling this and

(06:51):
confronts Dedra in her office, forcing her to tell him
the truth about her role on Gorman, and storms out
into the crowd. Afterwards, following a direct different partigas, Dedra
reluctantly orders the troops to open fire, which ignites an
intense shootout between the rebels and the imperial forces. The
protesters attempt to flee and are massacred, either by Imperial

(07:12):
blaster fire or by Chak security droids released by Caido.
Amid the chaos, a day's Cyril wanders the square and
Cassian attempts to assassinate Dedra through her window. The two
encounter each other and engage in a fight, where Cyril
gains the upper hand, but is shot and killed by Rylands,
the Gorman rebel leader. The resistance, manages to incapacitate a

(07:36):
Droid with an armoured transport. Cassian escapes Gorman with the droid,
while Women stays to find and aid his Gorman girlfriend, Drina,
in broadcasting the news to the galaxy. In the aftermath,
Dedra and Edie separately confront their losses as imperial news
outlets place the blame on outside rebel agitators. Episode nine,

(07:57):
Welcome to the Rebellion and the Aftermath of the Gorman Massacre.
The Empire frames the incident as an insurrection. Man Mathma
decides it is time to openly condemn the Emperor and
flee to Yavon. Bail Organa chooses to stay behind and
support her escape. Luthan learns from Lani Jung that Organa's
team is compromised and assigns Cassian to help her escape.

(08:20):
Clashing with Man over the depth of his subterfuge within
the rebellion and his choice to have take Homa killed
with bail Organa's help, Man Mathma takes the floor of
the Senate to condemn Palpatine and the Empire's manipulation of
the truth, and Cassian manages to extract her from the
Senate after killing her driver, Chlorus and a corrupted member
of Organa's team named Besca today nor name Man stays

(08:45):
behind to publicly position herself with Yeavin four rebels, while
Cassian accompanies Drina and an injured Wollman back to Yeavin four. Disturbed,
Cassian decides to leave the rebellion and start a new
life with Bicks, but she sneaks away in the night,
leaving a video message telling Cassie and that he must
stay with the rebellion to help them win, and that

(09:05):
she'll find him once again. When the rebellion has succeeded.
The rebel technicians managed to reprogram the Kax droid to
serve them. Guys watching this, I thought eight, I thought
I was gonna get on here and to be like,
eight was the best episode I've ever seen, And then
we watched nine. Yeah, there's just something I know, getting
into certain points of view before we get into certain
points of view, anything else, anything that we missed in

(09:28):
the Castle rundown M I.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
Mean not at the top of my head.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
No, No, I think it's time to jump into it.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
All right, here we go, Loo, You're going to find
that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly
on our own point of view.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
I am so thankful that Star Wars has made the
Empire scary to me. I noticed it is weird to say,
because like I love Star like like you know, we're
like we love Star Wars, but like, I've never been
afraid of the Empire. I've I've never been intimidated by
the Empire. They've always just kind of looked like putties

(10:04):
they can't shoot. Then you have Darth Vader and the Emperor.
But like, as we've expanded and learned more about the
like this is terrifying.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
And I mentioned earlier that I jumped right into that
Rebels episode with mon Mathma just just because I don't
know how you can resist. I did also, and watching it,
it's everything like I'm just gonna call this a sequel,
even though it's a prequel of a prequel, but like
just kind of smacked ab in the middle of the
whole universe. Any good prequel or sequel just makes what

(10:33):
came before better. Rebels is a decade old at this point. Wow, Wow,
you're right. And I when I was watching that you
feel the depth so much more. It's a cartoon and
it's made for kids, and you know it's meant to

(10:54):
be this fun crew of you know, of Rebels, but
it still fit, like the fun attitude that those those
characters have. But you're like, oh my gosh, they're making
the best of it and joking around with each other,
but they are in the middle of a war and
it's this is they're risking their lives because they just
happen to come across the future leader, the leader of

(11:17):
the rebellion, and who just and we just saw what
she risked and what she did. I know, we're just
jumping straight to the end here, but it just adds
so much depth and shading. And then I think, Chris,
I'm gonna allude to the text you throughout in the
chat of like this just makes me want to see
so much more about what everybody else was doing at
this time, and the handoff that this episode did to

(11:37):
that episode of Rebels, because now it's kind of fun
the one that we get to jump one year because
we know more stuff is going to happen here, but
it's fun that they're just handing off to other other
media within within the universe, and I love the idea
of do some more animated shows I you know, reference
some books. All of this ties in just so beautifully.

(11:58):
I know I've mentioned this is makes me want.

Speaker 4 (12:00):
To reread The Catalyst.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
It was a prequel to Rogue one about Kronick and
Galen urso that I really want to reread that and
see if they're hitting on any of those pieces. And
it just it is, this is lighting a fire under
my star Wars love. I think I said that last time,
and it's just making me more obsessed.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
The show took continuity of an animated show from like
you said, a decade ago, and it saved it. Like
it didn't hurt on. It didn't say, Okay, this is
an animated show for kids, it's a little different than
what we're trying to do here. No, it built it
into it. We got to see our hero from this
show be the one that rescues her from the Senate,

(12:40):
but all the while doesn't take away from the fact
that we know that the Ghost Crew is the one
that rescues her and on the other end of her escape.
And we also got to see her give an impassioned
speech that fit and Or. But didn't take away from
the fact that she's still about to give another speech,
the one we saw in Rebels. I mean, the the

(13:00):
only small part of continuity that they that they disregarded
a little bit, and I'm sure they have a reason
for it that we'll find out, is they kept bail
Organa on Corussant and in Rebels we see when Monmouth
was giving her other speech, they cut to right Lothal.
They cut to either a space cruiser that has some

(13:22):
rebels on it or like a thrown control room on
the Avin, and bail Organa is there, so that one
doesn't match up exactly. But that's not even that's so minuscule.
The fact that that they did respect to the Rebel
show too is a huge deal, because they're doing a
good job of telling a fantastic story, putting on a
fantastic show and keeping us all enthralled, but also respecting

(13:44):
the lore of the deep fans that at the foundation
of this all keep these shows being made.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
And have that dichotomy of adult Star Wars. That's whatever
it's calling this, right is Star Wars HBO grown ups. Yeah,
that I turned on an anime to show that what
was was on Disney XD back what it was on.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yeah, for the teens man.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
And I didn't you know, there was no whiplash, you know,
it was just I just kept watching the story and
nothing felt strange about it.

Speaker 4 (14:15):
And that's hard to pull off.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
I mean, yeah, it's just so good.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
It's unique to Star Wars. Two things I was gonna say,
how much this show is making me like, like be
terrified of the Empire. This show is also doing a
tremendous job of making me look at the rebellion and
the rebels that served in it totally different, like Luke
isn't even here yet, and that they are still like
Luke kind of you know, got the torch path to

(14:41):
him and finished the job. But these guys are pushing
it to like the goal like they're in the red zone,
Like they get it to the red zone by themselves.
And I do enjoy putting some respect on the little
guy's ear.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
When you guys watch a New Hope and you see
Luke show up on the oven and it looks like
a fully functional art rebel army almost a government, didn't
you like initially wonder why they let this farm boy
fly in their military in this mission that they have
to do, like they let this kid just off the

(15:12):
street that they have no idea whether you could do
it or not.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well in another pilot used to targeting.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
I know, but my point is like this, this is
making it so much more believable. They're taking anybody that
they could and yeah, they're doing everything they could. There
were two years from that.

Speaker 4 (15:30):
Yeah they're not.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
They're not at all established. They may look like it,
they may do well, but they're still new in their infancy,
and it just makes much more sense that you would
take anybody in that could come in and help.

Speaker 4 (15:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
Also, Chris and I because like, like, like Chris mentioned,
we watched the episodes before you, so we couldn't put
in our group chat because it's both things. One of
the things that you shared with me, Chris of cracked
me up. It was like, for these characters, we all
know they're they're gonna make it at least out of
this episode, but the entire episode, I was like, oh
my god, please take it, please.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Escape from the Senate scene was so tense considering we.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
Know that they make it out.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, like man Mathma is going to be chancellor, you know,
and thirty layers from now and then have it and
decide to retire from politics or on her own accord, and.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Even we knew was getting out.

Speaker 3 (16:18):
Yeah, it's it's just it's just wild to be like,
uh and like that's just great writing because you're so
invested in a story that like you completely forget that
we know the outcomes of all of these characters, you know,
not all of them, but like the main players here.
I know, I mentioned the last episode of you know,
and I know maybe superheroes isn't the right word, but
taking these like fantastical you know what I mean, Like

(16:40):
the Force, Like I love the way the Force Healer
is projected and shown to the normal person. It makes
me understand why Hans Set will be like what are
you talking about? I don't believe any of that crap
because it's something that's like to think at any point
in this show, a Jedi and a Sith fighting with
fabers just seems wrong. It seems so out of place.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
Yeah, it does have no place here.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
This is like the real world for them, and that
is like some fantastical mythological superior you know, you know
like that that that's something insane to see. And we
have been shown yeah, we've been shown all of that
stuff in Star Wars.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
It goes to what we were saying before is the
galaxy is so big, and yeah, you only get to
experience what you have in front of you and your world,
and you know, the stories to hear from you probably
just think they're exaggerated, yeah, or they're not true, or
you know that that's not how it happened.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Hm, in terms of Jedi and the Forest.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, and well you can even see you know what
what Kep's saying and what you're saying. Chris and Cassie
and even kind of has the same feeling when he
sees the Force Healer.

Speaker 4 (17:45):
He's like, no, this.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Is just this is treats like something hokey, Like yeah,
it's like it sounds, but.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
He's also seen one before, Marva. Marv has seen one before. Yeah, yeah,
that's a nice little drop. But maybe also maybe it
was someone pretending to be.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, because there would absolutely be fair. I mean like
we've we've already seen some within these Disney Plus shows,
we've seen people pretend to be die and pretend to
like that for money. It's so cool to know that
Luke would not have been able to be in a
position to blow up the Death Star if not for
Luthan and Cassian and Bicks and these people that we
are just now learning about, these no name heroes that

(18:23):
you know, obviously like the great like the story before,
didn't have these characters in mind when they wrote the story.
But like in the Greater Lord, now we know there's
these no name, unsung heroes that don't They won't get
the credit that Luke Skywalker gets and that's fine, but like,
it's just cool to see it.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
Could let's paint a picture here. I'm gonna support keV
here and the sequels. Yeah, could you imagine just if
this was the beginning of Star Wars and you're like, wow,
there's a great TV show and they said, hey, we're
going to do a spin off movie and then Rogue
Going comes out there like what everybody dies? And then
the sequel to that is a new hope? What what
do you mean everything my heroes, my characters who started

(18:59):
this out, they just show up and they save the day.
What happened to Cassie and and or the heart of.

Speaker 4 (19:04):
All of this?

Speaker 1 (19:06):
What does that have to do with the sequel?

Speaker 2 (19:07):
If the sequels are the first thing you watch you
might think Ray is like your favorite character and Luke's
just this scrumpy old guy. But it's the people who
are like, oh man, you ruined Luke Skywalker. I didn't
say nobody. We don't know anybody.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
That's that thought.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
I feel targeted.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
I turned off my targeting computer.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
I don't know, I feel like I really needed this text.
You guys, every time we watch these episodes, like how
much more real this world feels to me? And it's
not because they're like, oh, it's starting to feel like
real world policies. It's not that. It just feels like
this is a place that seeing a Luke Skywalker show
up and do what he does is going to be

(19:45):
like the stuff of legend, you know, like he is
like the Savior. He is like this prophetic.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yea, you know figure, the Chosen One?

Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (19:55):
What what.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Hey? You were just talking about rebels Rebels established? Is
that Lucas the Chosen One?

Speaker 3 (20:03):
No?

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, Obi Wan says it not yeah, Darth Maul says yeah,
and Obi Wan says he is. He was there, he
brought balance to the force.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Obi Wan doesn't know what he's talking about.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
Talk about.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Anyways, This the show is just it weaves. It weaves reality,
like giving you a real show that's like potentially not
necessarily Star Wars, just an enthralling story with enthralling characters
and everything, and it puts us in the same world,
like the same history and the same backstory, but like
to the level of we know, these guys don't know
everything about Star Wars, Like I mean, the actors keep

(20:46):
coming out and saying that they that they don't haven't seen.
But the fact that they they name drop a character
like General Dedonna that's so deep cut that you're gonna
include it in like a throwaway comment from Bell. Like
that level that they're taking us to is feeding guys
like us three but also just just giving us a

(21:08):
great freaking story.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, on the topic of name drops, I have one
complaint about these three episodes. Okay, okay, I think that
it may have been because everything worked out well, but
I was almost starting to anticipate it and it didn't happen,
So maybe upset.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
So keV, what is it an issue or a complaint?

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Is an issue or a complaint?

Speaker 4 (21:29):
This is a complaint, It's not an issue.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
I would have liked to see a mention of pad
may between Bail and Mont. That would have been a
night because Padme is probably one of the most influential
characters in Star Wars and the most who is the
most instantly.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Forgotten that from their perspective is she.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
But I was expected Bail to drop Leya's name.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Well, yeah, but like how many senators, how many senators
do they work with on a basics, like even in
this show, the amount of senators we've seen Mang go
back and forth for and she died eighteen years ago now,
but I think.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
If you see the deleted scenes in Revenge of the Sith,
it just shows.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
How much of I mean, we know too, because we've
seen Clone Wars, we read the Padme novels. We know
how h important she is.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
And I think that maybe something to say, like, you know,
I know that, you know, maybe like if and you
have somebody like that die at a point of your
life like that, you deify them in your own in
your own circles, And it would be nice to say,
and I know she would have been there with us
an Yavin or something, you know, even if they would
have just been a something where they didn't even say
her name but referenced her. That's my only gripe, and

(22:36):
it's not a big one. It's just a little complaint.
I thought if they would have included I would have
been gushing over something like something like that. There's the
writers of the show could have put it in much
better than I just articulated. Now, but that was it.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
I was gonna say, I guess, I guess if I
have a complaint, and I just want to hear what
you got to think about it, because I'm pretty sure
you got to be able to help me not have
this be a complaint. And doors well, I keep saying,
and like Cassian's constant like I'm out, I don't want
to do this anymore. Is like why why do you
keep not wanting to do this anymore? What else are

(23:09):
you going to do? Like you understand the stakes of
what is going on to just be like I just
want to be married to Biggs, which I mean, I
don't blame you there, brother, but it's like what do you?
What are you? What are you doing?

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Look how far he's come. So he came from not
caring about it at all to being, you know, Luthen's
right hand almost one of those and he just came
from Gorman and saw everything that had happened there and
barely got out, and then you know, went to Corroussant
and got man Mathma out. So now you have like
the Senator leaving you, she's out there. Yavin't is becoming

(23:44):
much more established, and he's not believing that he's anything
important to this, Like he said, he's like, I don't
have any skill. This is all luck. So he truly
doesn't believe that he's anything special to it the way
that everyone else sees that he is.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
Do we think Kathyan is specially? Do you think there's
something about him? Do you think they're gonna do that?

Speaker 2 (24:04):
Are you saying specialism in like force sensitive or anything
like that?

Speaker 3 (24:06):
Thing? Just so, yeah, just something like that.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
The Force guides all living things, is a part of
all living things. He's not necessarily in touch and able
to manipulate the Force in any way or reach out
to it. But the Force is using Cassie and do
for the Force's will to do things.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I don't think that they'll take it
any farther than they did with her with the with
the Force. Hitler saying he's a messenger because he's he
delivered the dust Star plans. Yeah, he was a messenger.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
Like gotch if somebody else would probably like if Yoda
was here, right, he'd say, oh, the Force surrounded you
or something like that.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
Right when I saw that that the interaction, I had
a moment where I was like I got taken out
of this amazing show. And I was like, oh crap,
this is Disney. And I was like, Biggs is gonna
have his kid, and that kid's gonna be some Jedi
in the future. And I was like, I just they're
gonna have some spinoff show.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Kept waiting for her to turn a corner and see
like a belly.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, like something like oh my god, like like Casian's
gonna have a kid and it's gonna be some for
sensitive kid.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
And I was like, did they establish that she's for sensitive?
Like Bick said she's felt this before, she had dreams,
she knew about it.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
I was kissed by that too, Like what like what
is she referring to there?

Speaker 1 (25:20):
Maybe she's a little for sensitive. Maybe we'll see her
as a.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
Jed dude, you see some more bigs always yeah, no.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Happy is she gone? Do we think that?

Speaker 1 (25:33):
I don't think I don't think we.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
See I think the tragedy of her character is that,
you know, we know Cassian's fate and she doesn't. And
I think that she's gonna be just one of those
people that realized that learns this fate like we all did.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
She's gonna go get be two Emo and go settle
that on somewhere.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
And have Cassian's kid who's gonna be the next Jedi
and animated.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
That I don't think. I don't think there's gonna be
any kid there.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
We need Jedis Man, we need Jedies, now, we need
new Jedi.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
I feel like we're going Do you think the show
is gonna have an epilogue at the end of the.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
It's called Rogue one.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
I mean like jump ahead and like kind of like
what Rebels does of and then we and then we won,
and then like I'm starting to think some of our
characters will survive.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
I think they will, but I don't think we'll know
what happens. I think they'll leave that open ended, especially back.
I don't think we see Bets again.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Especially Disney, right, like, yeah, well Rebels was still like
I think Disney took over the second half of that
or it was one of the noney. I think it
was one of the first. Yeah, but like I feel
like there was a time where you were like, this
might be it for for what we what we're doing here,
and then there's other times where like now Disney knows

(26:46):
we're going to keep doing this forever, but never put
closure on a character.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
Well, I think Rebels had to do some kind of
apologue because they they made their characters way too important
for the story, for all the things that they touched into,
all of the side characters that they ended up running into,
like Darth Vader, Princess Leiah, Lando, jab of the Hut,
Hondo a.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Knaka jump the Hut was the main character.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
I know, right, yeah, exactly, yeah, No, but for how
much they they actually like interacted and saw that you
had to establish what they were doing during the rebellion
during the original trilogy.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
No, can we pour one out for my favorite character,
Cyril how Yeah, and he had a heart of gold.
He just he made a big turn. He he saw
the evils of the empire. He saw a guy who
also like ruined his job, so he was like, oh man,
hate that guy.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
He saw the guy that was the catalyst for everything
that brought him to where he was today, the reason
he got fired on, the reason he met Dedra, the
reason he got his job and Sarah and ended up
where he was today, to be that pawn for the Empire,
to do the thing that was all Cassian.

Speaker 4 (27:51):
I don't even know who you are.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, that's insane to get in a fight that brutal
and like look at the guy, like, man, who are you? Like?
Why are you fighting me?

Speaker 4 (27:59):
Man?

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Like? Well like because yeah, Cassie could feel it right like,
this is this this person I don't know.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
I'm trying to survive. This dude clearly looks like he's mad. Cyril. Look.
I I liked Cyril's character because he was believable as
someone who would be swept up by the ways of
the Empire. And he's a career man and a military
man and a very like discipline man. He but he

(28:25):
does not get points from me, per certainly seeing the obvious,
you know what I'm saying, like like, and.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
He also didn't do anything about it. He just kind
of went and stood out there and watched it happen.
Not that he could have done anything. But I'm gonna
hit reality here now.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Isn't that how isn't that the every man like, right,
we all picture ourselves as like a hero, right, And
I think we even talked about this that like it
would sometimes we'll get in like you should watch this
and like, oh man, what would I do here? And
I think a lot of people would be Cyril, you know, like, hey,
I got this good job, I'm going to try to

(29:04):
do my best and and believe in it. But then
when you really get in there and see the evil,
and you just I don't know how to describe it
any other better than both what Dedra and him had
as an anxiety attack. I mean, Dedra had an anxiety
attack when yeah, after what happened with Cyril, and it
was just so I felt like, I'm not saying he's

(29:25):
a hero. I'm not saying he's a hero, but I
think you know, at the end of the day, he's not.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
He wasn't evil, no, no, no, Well, but we've been
saying the whole time he's not evil. Yeah, he's just
doing what he's doing what he thought was right.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, he was always he thought these guys were terrorists.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
So yeah, so heart of so you know what you
guys have talked me into it, heart of gold is
reserved for heroes, people who at the end of the dude,
at the end of the day, do something heroic.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
We won't talk about John, we won't bring him up.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
I'm talking. I'm just talking about the main character of
this of Star Wars. We know it's it's just it's
just Cyril had Uh. He spent what uh at least
a year on Gorman, right, m oh too, Yes, maybe
one and a half somewhere, because.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
We live in close proximity, in direct contact with these
rebels who I find it interesting that like they don't like.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Well, I mean from his point of view, terrorists, terrorist
from his from but.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
Not even them, like he's investing in them because he
thinks they're getting outside help. Yeah, it's like the whole
thing is about in his eyes, is about outside agitators. Yeah,
you thinks someone's coming in finding the weapons.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
Proximity breeds compassion, right m hm. And it didn't click
until literally he realized, Oh, my girlfriend was lying to me.
It's like, do you had two years the empire something
something was wrong and you didn't. You ignored the signs,
you ignored the warning, You ignored the people who were
actually there dealing with it. It's like just because the

(31:04):
last second you realized you were the uh the the joke.
I guess you were the one who was duped. You
would want being used. Uh Yeah. That rage kind of
came out of probably just the actual rage of realizing
he was manipulated. I don't think he's like, oh no,
the Empires evil. I think he was like, oh my god,
they played me for a fool, and now I'm in

(31:24):
this situation. And then he sees Cassian and that rage
just like dude, Cyril was unhinged. This character the whole
time was like this reserve measured. You can see he
was bubbling underneath.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Number how obsessed he was with Cassian. Back in the beginning,
He's like staring at pictures of the guy in this
heightd moment where his whole life has just crumbled in
front of him and then this guy is standing there.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
And the fact that they've just barely missed each other
in Gorman a year before.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
Yeah yeah. No, but like even like him losing his
cool with Dedra like uncomfortable because you see this dude
who's like so measured and so like, you know, just
lose it. Yeah, he's losing it.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
In his last moment, his last living moment, he realizes
that this guy doesn't remember him at all.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
Yeah. Yeah, like, man, I just like, oh, man, I
hope I hope his brain didn't register that too long,
because that just.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah, yeah, just as much as we feel for Cyril
and and any of the guy that was, that was
powerful and a great like comeback for the confrontation that
Ryland's and carn had had on the street before, Like
Carnen literally threw him to the ground and discarded him
and went on and then he got his payback.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, it's just such a good character because you know,
somebody like we could just make the the kind of
joking comment of Heart of Gold and we can have
a real discussion about it, and there's just such nuance
and so much gray to that kind of a character
where thirty years earlier, one hundred years earlier, if born

(33:03):
into the same place, lives the same.

Speaker 4 (33:06):
Life, does good work.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, you know, just based on where he is, he's
gonna he has skills and can function in that bureaucracy
and just happened to be in his career during an authoritarian,
evil regime.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
I'm incredibly curious about Dedra because we kind of called
it last episode we were talking about I don't know
if we exactly said like Cyril's gonna die because Dedra
has to choose orders over him, which is almost what
happened there.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
Hey, but in the end, in the end, he saved
her life.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
Yeah he did, and she doesn't and she won't know that.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Nope, she'll never know.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
She's her last impressions of it was she she caused
him to run out there and get killed. So I'm
curious to if she's gonna double down, which I feel
like Dedra is a character that would double down. It's
just kind of like follow Like, I don't think she's
gonna have a change of mind.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
If anything, she'll resolve.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah. So I'm excited to see where character goes because
she is man. She's Yes, she's She's great. She's a
great character, a horrible person, a great character.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
Before we leave Gorman, can we talk about that hotel clerk.

Speaker 4 (34:12):
I love him.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
That dude was great.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
I was questioning the whole time, and then it just
makes sense, like that was the guy that checked Cassie
and in to his room a year before, and he remembered, Yeah,
I didn't catch that at first. I mean before the
whole thing was done, I did. I didn't. I didn't
have to look it up or anything, but that was
that was cool?

Speaker 3 (34:30):
Yeah? Then him, uh setting the charge off the end
or like, hey man, I didn't register.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
You, and I think I also have to issue a
formal apology. Bail are got an worth it? Yes? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
scheduling conflicts are have now been accepted. No, I get it.
Would I have rather? Would I have rather had Jimmy Smitz? Yeah, yeah,
like that would.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Have Benjamin Bratt did not miss a beat.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
No, I understand that life happens, and you know, these
are people who are essentially working a.

Speaker 4 (35:01):
Job and sometimes things have to happen.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
And for the point of this story, you could not
have told the story you needed to tell without what
we saw.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
How powerful was it when the Gorman senator says, it's
my people today and yours tomorrow and then looks right
at Bail who we know these whole people are going
to get destroyed because of this.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
Yeah, it's it's do surviving. What is al the Ranians?

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Are?

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Are there people out there who sit there and have
and say things like you know, Bail or Ghana didn't
do enough. You know, he should have been She should
have had the guts that man Mathma had. Are there
people out there with that opinion, don't I wonder who
just don't know the nuance? You know?

Speaker 4 (35:46):
I mean, and you hear what.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
I won't use any any of our politicians' name is right,
but we people just make comments about anybody these days,
and we'll just say just blindly. And it's knowing that
comments like that we're probably made, and just like wow.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
How about the fact that, like, you know, Aldron being
Leah's home planet and being the first one chosen. How
about the fact that now it probably played even into it,
into it even more knowing that bail Organa was supporting
the rebellion partially like open openly almost like that probably
had something to do with it.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Also, yeah, oh yeah, just known agitators. Well, oh, I'm sorry,
there's a major thought that I was sitting there thinking about.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Too.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
We are this is too bby Yes, yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
The other thing I'm absolutely fascinated about. And I'm wondering
if the next season will well no, we might not
touch or not said season. The next arc when we're
one year out, that Senate is two years away from disbanding.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
M hmmm.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
I want to know so much more about that, and
I don't. I don't know if we're going to get
it here now that Mon's officially gone.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
But like it also it disbanded in a New Hope,
so and it like they just got news that it
that had been disbanded and the regional governors were maintaining control.
So I don't think any of that will have happened
before ragu one, Like it's it's already locked down. Yeah,
the emperor already has full control. They have listening devices
on all the target centers that they have.

Speaker 4 (37:12):
But yeah, and this was a this was a major
step in it.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Right, you're gonna, yeah, you're gonna have people who align
with mad Mathma leaving the Senate, like following her.

Speaker 4 (37:22):
Pale Is in Yavin at.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
Roque one, we don't do we know if he's still
a senator and at that moment, I don't, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Uh, well, I think we'll find that. I'll see you
in a year, so like that'll that kind of hints that, yeah,
it'll be we're not done with him in the show.
Maybe Benjamin Brat, You're gonna he'll be back.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Yeah, No, he'll he'll He'll be in the next couple.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, what do you guys think is the more powerful line?
The rebellions are built on hope, which we got the
introduction of in episode eight, or the Welcome to the Rebellion.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
No, well through to the Rebellion.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
I love that man. Mathma was shaken by everything she
was seeing because she hasn't had that experience yet. She's
been doing her her end of it, and now she's
starting to see like the ugly, the ugly parts of
the of what this is going to take, totally by
Cassie and being like this hardened character at this point.
So when he does because I remember the beginning, wrote beginning,
wrote one, when he shoots the guy, everyone was like,

(38:22):
oh my is this is this is a good guy
and it's like, no, like you understand why he has
to be that way.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Yeah, the show is so good because every arc you're
a tiny bit closer to that Cassie and Or and
we have one arc left.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
I think we just saw we saw the catalyst though
that that brings him to that bix leaving.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Oh yeah, yeah, we're not We're not there yet. But
we're going to be and I think we're still not quite.
There's gonna be one more catalyst that pushes him one
more piece of the way there. But it's just it was,
it's been so incremental, and that's hard to do, you know.
I I almost relate it to if you guys ever,

(39:02):
like had a big piece of paper. Okay, earlier today,
this is Mother's Day weekend. I was upstairs with my
kids making a Mother's Day card for my wife. And
I am a typical man with terrible handwriting. Then I
start out writ being happy in big letters, and then
oh no, I don't have enough for a mother.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
And that's so easy to do.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
I feel like with the shading of Cassian, this is
a really good analogy here and even Smallville, right, like
we're gonna do a new power every season, and then
you don't you have all these ideas you want to
bring Cassian from this just regular guy, the blue collar
guy working in this town to this hardened soldier of

(39:47):
the rebellion. They could have gotten you like most of
the way there, and then like the last this second
season being just the same guy as Rogue one, but no,
every episode he's just a little bit closer, a little
bit different. That's just cool.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
I think. I think one of my favorite lines I
heard them saying, I forgot if it was maybe maybe
maybe maybe it was the Gorman Senator before you got arrested.
He's talking to mom about it, and he was like,
I'm paraphrasing because I'm not going to say exactly because
it was written way better than I can remember. Basically,
he was like, they're not even doing They're not even
trying to lie well anymore, you know. He was like,

(40:22):
it's insulting. They're like, they're not even trying to lie well,
Like they're not they're not even lying good anymore. And
how scary that is? Like and U and that was
the whole uh like tagline of like Mon's speech of
like if truth is lost and like and then calling
out impro palerateam by name following him a monster. Us
knowing who he is and her not really knowing who

(40:43):
he is is insane and terrifying.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
And as zeb says in the episode of Rebels right after,
it's like, man, she's got guts.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
Yeah, one more beat about like and Or or Cassie
and shooting the guy in the being a roll one
like I remember watching and being like, oh, you know,
how do I feel about that? He's supposed to be
a good guy, but at that point there is desperation
to beat the Empire. Like the Empire is so overwhelmingly
like the Empire at this point. And that's what I'm saying,
Like I've never and this is probably just my own horrible,

(41:16):
horrible interpretation of watching these movies are the story, but like,
the Empire has never been this to me. You know,
the Empire was always just Vader and the Emperor. It
wasn't all this, you know what I'm saying. If this
dude was like gonna slow me down to stop all
of this, I might have to cap them too, man,
Like this is this is bigger than just two figureheads

(41:36):
at the top who have mystical powers that we may
or may not believe they have. This is like the
government and you know, systems and all like it. It's
just it's just so well fleshed out for me.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Now, well that just opens up my eyes for for
the connection. What we might see in is next three
arcs with three arcs, next three episodes, episode the Discovery
of the Death Star. That that's a thing, and that
it's because that's that's where Ander was, That's what he

(42:09):
was finding out from this guy and like leading into
what gayln Urso has been doing all this stuff like that,
Like that it's gonna be the general Draven who we
met in this arc, and guess they're gonna be working
together and finding out about the Dusk Star. Yeah, that's
that's my guess.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
Yeah, and how scary that's going to be of a
realization of like, oh my god, they've created this thing
they can destroy planets, like like like im saying, we
were introduced to that as as if it was just
like a like a normal thing when we saw it.

Speaker 4 (42:36):
Okay, that's the first thing we in the opening crawl.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
It's like, okay, well, no big deal is that there's
a giant thing that destroys planets and we see it
destroy all around and I'm like, Okay, I don't know
who they were, but it sucks for them. But you know,
like it's like now it's like, oh my.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
God, imagine how much scarier that is right now for
someone like casting who they were hiding out on Mina
Rau or what he's seen happened to Feryx and to
Gorman now or he.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
Was helping build it.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
Oh yeah, that too. But can you imagine, like thinking
about okay Gorman, they did all this, they could have
just blew up the whole planet. Now, well it's gonna
stop them. It's like Cassie keeps saying, and they keep
it and Bix keeps saying, and we have to win.

Speaker 3 (43:13):
Yeah. Yeah, it's great, great show, needed it, So happy
it happened.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
I hope that we get a touch from man Mathma
and then something about like where parent is because knowing
who she is as a person, and she unders fully
understands what's happening because she saw the Gorman Center get rested,
she's got to imagine that if she does what she
does and then disappears, that anyone close to her is
going to be at risk. Gone.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Yeah this yeah, this almost made me go back to
the the wedding part of the arc where she's just
getting drunk and forgetting because she's essentially saying goodbye to
our familysiating.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
And to be okay because around Chandrilla and doing the
married life thing like there there she's away from home
and that there, but paren.

Speaker 4 (44:03):
She's pulling herself.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Yeah, like yeah, disassociating, like I'm pulling myself out of
this and emotionally detaching.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
That was three years ago now though, yeah, two years.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yeah, you can't get to the point where you leave
everything you know and go basically into hiding without that
long kind of process first of saying good bye to
your kid and being out of there, and it ties
back into everything luthen says of like, you know, what
do you think we got into? This is?

Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, that was a cool little angle about this is
the fact that like even the people closest to him
are no longer really trusting or interested in what luthen
is doing, except for Clia, who's always had his back
and is the driving force between all of this. Claia
is a rock star. Like let's give her, let's give

(44:53):
her her due. Yeah, yeah, also looking amazing every time
she's like the flow she had out there in that
Senate plat Like yeah, but like the fact that like
even Cassian wanted, they're not They don't want those tactics anymore.
They don't want to do the things that Luthenan's doing.
But he's still heavily involved and heavily tied in.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
No, I mean the way Cassie and convinces lu Mond
to come with them. He's like, look, I know Luthen
can be hard, you know, and like like like yeah,
like I have to deal with the buddy's right. I
know you're yeah, and he's right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
When you look at Luthen and compared to American politics,
a common refrain, Youl here is the radical left and
the radical right are when you get extremely radical, things
get closer together. It's more of a circle, right, and
Luthan somebody like Luthan and somebody like saw.

Speaker 4 (45:44):
You see them like they're so far apart.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
One's tackling this from the political espionage world, and the
other one is just kind of a disruptor and going
to type guy. Yeah, and you thought that on a
straight line, they're on opposite end of that. But when
you look at his circle, they're getting so close to
each other and overlapping, and you can see how the

(46:06):
rebellion disassociated from saga Era at some point, and they're
going to disassociate from Luthen at some point.

Speaker 4 (46:13):
And I just think that's kind of like, it's just
very interesting.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Basically said, Evan's not for him.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Yeah, and we know that, y'ah. Saw it's not for Yavin.
We got that very clear.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Yeah, are we ready to give a ruling? I mean,
I wonder what it's gonna be.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
Yeah, just just just for the formality.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
I guess at this point we already did it.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
We did on the front. Well, we need to make
it official. So let's let's bring in the Jedi Council
and deliver ruling.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
I must speak with the Jedi Council immediately.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
The situation has become much more complicated.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
We did this last time, but for L three two
one Master Master Master, even with County down, you couldn't
we couldn't get it on time. Is this that, though?

Speaker 4 (46:59):
Is this our first any Plus show.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Has all masters?

Speaker 3 (47:02):
It has all masters?

Speaker 4 (47:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
I don't think they're gonna ship the bed here.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
No, there's no way, there's no way.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Yeah, I trust them.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
Wait wait, wait, we did.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
We were we were saying this Mandalorian season three. We
were like Master, Master Master, because like, all the episodes
were fun, and then we got to the family, who
were like, what the hell was that?

Speaker 1 (47:21):
My question is, let's let's think of it this way.
We're reviewing three episodes at a time. If you look
back at one through nine, are there any of them
by themselves that we may have given an apprentice to.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
I can't pick it out, but I was thinking the
same thing this morning. Yes, probably. I mean I don't know.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
I mean, like what, like you guys know me from
what I've shared, like this, this is my this is
my my bag when it comes to Star Wars. I
like this. I like this more than I like like
at this point, like because of how the Jedi insist
stuff has been going in Star Wars right now, I'm
liking this more than the other stuff right now. So
I'm hoping that we get something. It doesn't have to
be this like tone. I'm hopen like you know, like

(48:02):
it blows my mind to think, like even the Mandalorian
or Ahsoka take place in this same universe.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
I think when we found out that we were going
to get like Disney Plus shows about Star Wars or
even like you know, film like going Back like Solo
and Obi Wan and something like that, I feel like
this was the type of story I thought we'd always get,
Like living in the world. The big things are happening
here with the major characters. Maybe we'll see some maybe
we won't, but it'll be like living in this world.

(48:30):
This is what I thought we'd be getting in every show. Yeah,
right off the top, we don't have any Tellyborard entries. Yeah, no,
I'm sure there's the Cannon Immigrants some shit there may
have been. We were way too caught up and just
watching this and enjoying it to catch anything in there.
So I apologize. That's that's on me, guys. I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (48:50):
Pre episode I debated Cerrial is a heart of gold,
but after the conversation.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
I'm not there.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
You said that in the episode though, so.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
I know, but but as a teaser, evil people who
do evil things for the Empire can become can get
a heart of gold if they throw the Emperor into
a ledge.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
And not really kill Ok. Sorry, sorry, sorry? Quiet?

Speaker 1 (49:14):
Do we bring bringing the parents of all those young
things to vote on whether he kids.

Speaker 4 (49:20):
He barely knew those kids. They got taken away by
the Jedi. The Jedi stole those kids.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yeah, they set their kids to have a better life.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
Review.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
We have plenty of time before we debate that. I'm
going to switch things up a little bit and we'll
start from the end and work our way forward, So
our way toward it can't be anything other than Cyril.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Yeah, pour one out for that poor guy.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
That that strange man. His mother is fine, like his
overbearing mother, his psychotic girlfriend, his uptight job. You have
the sweet release of death now, Cyril.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
Hey, at least he accomplished his goal of finding Cassie
andor before and he saved his ex girlfriend's life.

Speaker 4 (50:08):
Yes, we didn't talk about this.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Remember, he was just playing with his spiders, Yes.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
In the middle of everything.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
It's just just moving them around a little bit.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
That's what I do with my legos.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
I just kind of repositioned them slightly.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
That's that guy. What a weird dude?

Speaker 3 (50:26):
All right?

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Who is our scheme? Is it Besca? She's the She
was the corrupt member of Organo's team that tried to
try to arrest Mo.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Yeah, that piece of garbage.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Or it's Kaido, the imperial guy that came in with
the shock troops to Gorman scarface guy. Yeah, it could
be Palpatine because he's a monster. He's not in the job.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
Yeah, I'm down for the corrupt.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
Her name was Besca, party to the description that we read.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
Okay, yeah, screw her.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
All right, and our rookie of the episode of the
arc I should say I keep saying episode. It's three episodes,
we've got all.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
We're getting to that point where we're keeping to the
show K two.

Speaker 4 (51:13):
I mean I don't k K two, but you.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
Get like two lines of him. He might be a
good candidate in the next arc. Yeah, because we like
we really get to introduced with hopefully a couple of
guy the people that I wanted to nominate. One is
that hotel clerk like I know we saw him before.
Oh yeah, like this was really his time to shine.
Or Erskin. I mean we saw Erskin briefly but didn't
really do anything.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
No, the hotel clerk guy. Man, he's a good hotel
clerk clerk guy.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Rebellions are built on hope. Hotel clerk guys, our comeback
player bail Orghana.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
I refuse to give it to him last time.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
If Joey is is an example of the greater Star
Wars people who were worried about the recast, I'm sure
after this episode there's no one complaining on Internet about anything, right,
I don't know, I haven't been on it, but yeah, no,
so I'm gonna go Bill Ogana. Yeah no, I was,
I was, I was talking to my mother about my
sabbatical from the Internet, and she said, yeah, she's like,
you should use the internet like it was and you

(52:09):
were a kid when it was in one corner of
the house. And I was like, oh, yeah, it used
to be in like one spot in the house that
I can only use.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Internet had to take I would leave the Internet.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
Yeah, I would, like I would, you could? You could
leave the internet. Now. We can't leave the internet now,
But there at one point for the younger listeners, the
Internet was a thing that you visited and left, wasn't
something that you were always a part of.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
And like you'd go to social media. You'd open it
up and you'd scroll and then you'd see something that
you saw before and you'd be like, I'm caught up,
and you'd put it down.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
Yep, you were done.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
I can't tell you how many times I close an
app just to open up the same app right after
I close it. Not even like on purpose. It's just
like habit and accident. It's like I just I just
got it.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
I don't need sports a habit.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
They're manipulating us. It's the Empire.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
So I fully agree with bail organa. I want to
get a little mention to Melchie. I thought that was
a cute little moment. Like Bell's looking through she's checking
the weapons. She sees that rifle from Aldnnie that Cassie
had taken ended up giving to Melchie when they ran away,
and like she just gets like a moment of I
don't know if she like I hoped that it was

(53:16):
somebody or I don't know what she thought that kind
of like she was like, who's this and then he's like, Oh,
I think that's me. I just thought that was a
cool little and I think we'll see more of him
in the next few episodes, especially knowing that he's in
Rugue one as well. But I don't want him to
win the ward. I think Bill is a good choice
for that.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
All right, And who is your m v P ex
Senator mon Mathma.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Yeah him, No, you know what that had that? Yeah,
that had to be incredibly hard for her.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
Uh No, she's not the MVP.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
She was.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
She didn't even she wasn't even in I don't think
she was even in the second episode or eight episode eight.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
No, but.

Speaker 4 (53:59):
We didn't even talk about that. How it just was
one thing.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Well, I mean, man, Mathma, great, what about I mean Cassian.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Nah, he kind of like kept said he was kind
of being being a little whiners.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
No, he said that was at the end. At the end,
he said he was gonna go, and he deserves it
the same same way Clark Kent in Smallville deserves to
have his family and kids after everything that he's done
as a superman in the future.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
But no, there there is there is a trope within
like soldiers and war stories like you'll you'll you'll probably
catch it every time anytime does like some battle or
something going on, or you'll hear like a cop or
like a security guard. So I'm like, I didn't sign
up for this, and it's like, yes, you did. That's
exactly what you signed up for. So when I see

(54:46):
a dude is like I'm in a rebellyon, like I
don't want to do this anymore, is like, this is
what you signed up to do.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Technically, he didn't commit to anything. He I mean, he
went he did a lot for it already. keV, You're
you got to go home right at after?

Speaker 3 (55:00):
Yeah? Yeah, after the plan was over, I couldn't be
like six weeks into Like I'm tired of the six weeks.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
He's four like what four or five years into it now,
and he's he's almost died how many times? And he's
done so much for the cut he doesn't deserve to say, Okay,
he's seeing that now yet Yavin is set up. It's
a it's an establishing function thing. They got man Mathma out.
Who's who was like that was a bigger deal. She
gave her speech to the Senate and everything. He's done

(55:27):
a lot, like he sees it, they're in a better
position now.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
So he said that to Uhl, He's like, I'm tired.
She's like, you're tired, and she starts mentioning, like all
She's like, whyn't you tell them you're tired.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
I get where Clay is coming from. But Clay is
not risking herself on missions in the way that cassiean is.
He's putting his life, body, everything on the line for that.
She's she's just being dubious in her comfy job in
the antique store, like, Okay, I'm sorry, she cut her
hand a little bit getting the listening bug out. Good,
I'm going to she's I think Clay is great. I

(56:00):
think she has a huge important part in this. She's
she's had to be dedicated to. But I guess that
he's not justified.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
I think because unfortunately, outside of the show, I know
there's three more episodes of a title show named Cassie
and Endoor, and there's a movie where he's gonna do
one of the greatest things in the story. It's like, dude,
just like you're you're not done. Like I'm tired of
hearing you say you want to be done. I know
you're not. But no, I what you're saying, Cassie's gonna
be the MVP next next one for me, because he's

(56:31):
gonna do all this.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Without bigs list.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Listen, it's coming on to nobody.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
But K two might win every award next time, so
we can't go that far.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
I'm on board with mon Mathma just for the sole
fact of what she did for that speech, the courage
it took to do something like that, and then to
have her eyes open to what the reality of the
of her world is now with chloris being Yeah, she's
got all of it.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
Yeah's got goods.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Welcome to the Rebellion.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
Yeah, that's a great line.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Do we have any other speculation about what my becoming?

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Only the fact that, like when this opened up and
we kind of got started right on Yavin and I
giggled a little bit, like, you know, made a little
bit of a couch noises, kind of like the same
noises you probably make when somebody just like breaks away
for like a nice twelve yard run. I was like,
oh my god, this is Star Wars. Here we go
like this is Yes. That that was the feeling I had,

(57:23):
And like the next arc is probably gonna feel very
Star Wars like. I feel like we're going to have
some like we might get to May the Force be
with you. It's gonna we're gonna have some tally board
entries next. Yeah, in the next arc and If and
and our speculation from season one, I think we're all
three of us. At one point thought Luthen was gonna

(57:44):
pull out a light saber and be a Jedi. Maybe
that happens and then he dies.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
If or when Luthen dies, is it going to be
sacrificial or epic? Is it gonna be him going down
to blaze the glory or are you going to be
sacrificing himself.

Speaker 4 (57:58):
More like more of a martyr.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
Yeah, because Luthan understands moderate more than I've.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Seen a lot of speculation that he'll die so Claya
can live, or like so she can escape or something
like that.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
I just I just feel like his death is gonna
be like brutal.

Speaker 4 (58:14):
Or is it like Cassie and just like you've gone
off the deep end.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
I'm just worried, like he's gonna be like it's gonna
be like a brutal death, like Cranic is gonna kill
him in some way.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Maybe we have Oh we have not had enough Krenic
in terms of what they probably paid.

Speaker 4 (58:31):
Do I say, come back.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
I think it'll be an integral part.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we need we need a lot
of him in the last arc.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
So like we before we started recording, where Kevin and
I were waiting for Joey to come on and we
were rewatching the trailer to see if there's any clips
in there that we haven't seen yet. Yeah, one of
them was stormtroopers going down that hallway to the safe
house where we saw him on mouth on my last
So that yeah, but we also know we're about to

(58:59):
skip a year and I had so maybe somebody else
is staying there, Maybe Luthan's staying there and they're tracking
him down or something. I don't know. We also found
a scene of Claya and where like it was like
yellowish and bright sun and she was crying. So that
doesn't seem like chorusant right Kevi from what we saw,
so maybe that has something to I don't like it's
gonna happen with her. It's like you want everyone to

(59:20):
have a happy ending, but knowing what happens, none of
them are going to get a happy ending.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
Yeah, but no, no speculations, And I love that. I'm
ready to be blown away next week and then I'm
ready to watch Rogue going after it, you know what.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
I'm ready to be blown away by your Bad Star
Wars joke, Joe.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
Okay, here we go everyone, Are you guys ready for this?
And this was topical Bad Star Wars joke from my
new favorite thing that the Star Wars Dad Joke book.
Don't worry, guys, Uh, the paycheck's coming through it. I'm
gonna get you guys your own copies. All right, Here
we go. It's the play on words. I love those.
How many rebels does it take to transmit stolen death
Star Plans one and or two?

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
That was a good one. I did not see that coming.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
There we go. There, there's your hopefully bad but good
Star Wars joke. I hope you got that. A great week.
That's all I got for us. We'll schedu you up
next week. May the Force be with you.

Speaker 4 (01:00:13):
And Always hold on to Star Wars.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
Always hold On to Star Wars is a part of
the Always Hold On To network, a podcast and brought
to you by listeners like you. For a full list
of patrons, listen to our flagship show, Always hold On Smallville,
Always hold On Star Wars. Theme music is by Landslaster
and our podcast art is by Matt Truex. You can
follow us on Twitter at always star Wars with one

(01:01:23):
middle less, follow us on Instagram at May the Pod
be with You, and you can send us an email
at May Theepod be with You at gmail dot com.
Thanks for listening.