080: Andor, "Make It Stop" / "Who Else Knows?" / "Jedha, Kyber, Erso"

Kevonte, Chris and Joey discuss the final batch of episodes of Andor season 2: Make It Stop, Who Else Knows? and Jedha, Kyber, Erso. They talk the epilogue style ending, if there were enough familiar faces and cameos, and if this was the best Star Wars TV series.

MASTER OR APPRENTICE?
Kevonte: MASTER
Chris: MASTER
Joey: MASTER

TALLY BOARD
Canon Immigrant: 63.5
Droid Saves: 18
Execute Order 66: 5
Heart of Gold: 13
"I Have A Bad Feeling About This": 19
Lost Limbs: 11
Mask of the Sith: 8
"May The Force Be With You": 32
Monster Attack: 36
"NOOOOO!": 9
"No One's Ever Really Gone": 22
Pitfall: 20
Superweapon: 8

Artwork by Matt Truex: dailyknockoff.com

PATREON: patreon.com/alwaysmallville
TWITTER: twitter.com/alwaystarwars
FACEBOOK: facebook.com/alwaysmallville
EMAIL: [e-mail]

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
A long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome to always Hold on to Star Wars, because just
what the Internet needed was another podcast talking about Star Wars.
I'm one of your hosts, Joey and joining me tonight
is the usual suspects of Cavante.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Hey, how's it going?

Speaker 2 (00:49):
And Chris Hello there. So we're here to round out
our coverage of and Or here. I think some of
us were a little disappointed that it took us this
long to start talking to each other.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Ye blame Tennessee weather Man.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Let's be honest, though, we have not stopped talking to
each other about this. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, the chat's been a little bit hotter than normal.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Memes are flying, yeah, yes, no, yeah, yeah they did it.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Insert applause here because that's just fantastic ending.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Disney Plus doesn't miss usually with the Star Wars finales,
and with a show this good, it needed a finale
appropriate to the rest of the show. We even book
at was fun. That was that was a fun little
bit and battle he came out riding on the Rank Corps.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah yeah, fun, fun, fun.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
So we are just going to be glowing it and
giving this show its flowers over our discussion here. So
we're gonna do things just just a bit different for
and or coverage because we've been looping all the three together,
and for the finale, we want to take our time
and talk about each episode. So we're going to separate
out a little bit. I think, without further ado, we
should just jump right in and Kessel rundown.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Let's do it, do it.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
There are three episodes, ten, eleven, and twelve. They were
all released on May thirteenth, twenty twenty five. They were
written by Tom Bissel and directed by Alonso Ruiz Palacios.
The first of the three that we'll be talking about,
number ten, is titled Make It Stop. A year following
the events on Gorman, Lanni warns Luthen that the Empire

(02:38):
is building the Death Star and that Dedra has likely
uncovered both of their identities. Though he initially promises Lani
and his family safe passage from Corussant, Luthen kills him
to ensure his silence. As Luthen destroys the COM's system
in the shop, Dedra arrives and confronts him. Luthan attempts
suicide and is taking gravely injured a hospital as Claya

(03:01):
watches from Afar interspersed throughout the episode. Flashbacks revealed that
Luthan was an imperial officer who defected after his unit
massacred Claya's hometown. Finding her hiding in his ship, he
informally adopts her and begins selling antiques while waging resistance
against the Empire. In the present, Dedra is arrested for

(03:21):
her overreach, and Claia sneaks into the hospital and shuts
off Luthen's life support system. This is now where we're
going to immediately jump into our certain points of view
for this episode.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, yes, Louke.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
You're going to find that many of the truths we
cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
So how quickly did everybody just immediately just like jump
out of your seat, make some noises, and go, oh
my god, this is this is tense. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
They throw you right into it.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Yeah, I think I was. I was sitting here watching it.
Lannie's death is and I got a brag a little
because we have been made making jokes this entire time
about how we have yet to get our spouses to
watch this show with us. I'm happy to report I
am watching season one right now with.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Jests and I'm watching season one with lead you too.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
I tried using peer pressure, and my wife said, well,
now that you're telling me other people are doing it,
I'm definitely not going.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
To I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
She lingered on a few episodes and was like kind
of looking interested. So there's still help, but they're still hope.
My wife does not give into peer pressure.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
So Jess walks by and she sees the scene of
Lonnie like urging Luthen about the death Star. The death
Star is the scariest thing and the planet to me. Now,
once they reveal that Lonnie is dead, I stood up
out of my chair and I was like, oh my god,
like yeah, wow was I was like this is this

(04:49):
this this, this is the end, Like this is it?
And she was like okay, She's like I have to
see what makes you react like that. And now she
we just got through No Way Out and she leans
over Luthen's monologue to Lonnie and she's like, Okay, this
is really good and I'm like, oh, that's all I
need to hear. But no, Lonnie, Yeah, that's insane.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
He's not going to get the way to ward. But
this poor guy has given his life for this and like,
this is how it has to be this way. It
can't be any other way because Luthen has no time,
no ability. It just sucks because Yeah, even like the
fact that we see what happens to Lutheran, Luthen knows
he can't be taken alive. Yeah, the fact that he
knows that that'll happen even to him with the result

(05:30):
that he has, he can't let the Empire take him in.
It just makes a little bit more sense as to
why he was willing to do that for Lonnie too.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
And then when they immediately cut to him telling Clea
and it was just like the quick Kiber or so
scaif like just the main points, other people and the
rebellion will be able to get the rest of the way,
and we know they do. You're immediately giddy to watch
Rogue one as soon as this episode starts, honestly, mm hm,
and you just want to get the rest of the way.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
I mean, I guess this episode in particular, I think
with Lannie's death and Lutan's death, this has been kind
of dispersed about this entire series, but they really show
a side of the rebellion that I don't think a
lot of us saw or thought that it'd have to
be like to think about like these unsung heroes, to
think about like a Lannie, like how miserable like that, Like, yes,

(06:21):
he's a hero, but like he was not a like
he was not a heroic figure. He was a very
stressed and depressed and scared anxious man who had a
wife and a daughter.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
But we also saw him live the life of luxury
at working for the empire. He went, he was at
those parties. Yeah, it was kind of the same note
we were making when comparing Cassian to Clia. And well,
now we know that Claia did so much more than
what we say, but at the time it's like, okay, Claire,
you're you're here working in this gallery. Yeah, you got
to keep his secret in. It's stressful, but you're not out,
you know, sacrificing your life and body and friends the

(06:53):
way that Cassian is. And then you look at Lannie
and you know, Lonnie thought he had it tough, but
in the end, it.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Just sort of reinforces there's no straight line for a rebellion,
like to beat this empire. You can't Sometimes it can't
be clean, and it can't look good, and it's it
just really kind of recontextualizes the way I see a
lot of these characters in Star Wars during the rebellion,
Like it just yeah, it's just it changes it for me.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
I mean you always know that the rebellion of the
good guys and the Empire are just awful, Like we've
seen that time and time again. And then you get
to Rogue one, and we're gonna talk about Rogu one
a lot just because this this ties, this leads directly
into Rogue one. Yeah, but when we watch Rogue one
the first time, Jinner so is our main character. Yeah,
Like you feel for Jin because you start off with

(07:42):
her flashback and she lost her parents and then you
know she's kind of like the reluctant fighter and you
give into this. But like Cassie and almost seems abrasive.
He seems like to do things like you're like, why
is he gonna kill Galen herself? We know Galen's not
a bad guy that kind of stuff. Yeah, like this
paints it all in a completely different picture. He's had
to do awful things for the rebellion. Yeah, he says it.

(08:04):
It's not justify it because you almost you don't want
to justify everything.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Like it's necessary.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, but this, this is one of those things. Lonnie
dying is almost a necessity for the rebellion.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
And his life has already been ratcheted up for at
least a week ahead of Rogue one. It got pretty
intense just ahead of it.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
Uh, you said you wanted to put a point in
Luthen being an imperial officer who defected.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Is it established that that's imperial because that's a flashback
to Claya being younger, and we're like, what now nineteen?
I mean we are nineteen years since the start of
the Empire. So I guess it makes sense he would
be We had talked about potential. I think we were
talking the chat, but maybe he was a separatist or
something in the Clone Wars, potentially because he's so much younger.

(08:53):
But I guess the timing would line up to be
early imperial and like it would tie into him knowing
about cassium history. Remember, and you probably know from rewatching.
When Cassiinge first meets him, he talks about, oh, I
was a memben I fought for three years, and Lusen's like, now,
you were a cook and you left after six months. Yeah,
like that kind of stuff. So maybe he knows because

(09:13):
of those things. Maybe it's the fighting that we see
Hans Solo doing and Solo when he first initially joins. Yeah,
so I guess I guess now that we like see
it to it could make sense he's an imperial.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yeah. I interpreted it as him being an imperial and
just a really kind of devastating scene of him kind
of getting to his point where he cracked, like he
literally just kind of sit and saying, make it stop
because he's just hearing in this constant like carnage, and
uh finds a little little young Claya and he's like,
I'm gonna make you mine. We're gonna do some amazing

(09:47):
things together because Claya is hardcore from the from the
from the get and she has every reason to be.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
I saw some posting that's like this was all Claya's rebellion.
He did everything for her to support her and lead her,
and then she's the one that took it to the end. No, Like,
we give Luthen a lot of credit, but it's Claia
and finding Claia and what she wanted to do with
her life as payback and stuff that the Rebelly.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
It's it's so crazy because when they showed the flashback
of Luthen and Clay, I was like, oh, I guess
it would be kind of nice to know where these
characters came from, but like I didn't need to because
I understood them so well, you know, understood them so well.
Now I just understand why better. I did not expect
Luthen to have been a former imperial, but it just
makes a lot of sense when you think about his

(10:35):
character resroactively.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
You know, see, I'm still going to keep in my
head canon. Then he was a separatist at first. It's
a character we don't have yet because the all of
the rebel fleet at the end, you see similarities to
the separatists, Like it looks they kind of mirror each other.
And you know, we've got saw who was kind of
fighting along. He was fighting with the Republic and then

(10:58):
with the flip he flipped. You need one character who
is kind of always on this other side. And I
think his ruthlessness of like, I like emboldened I was
right about the corruption of the Republic because there there
had to be separatists who were right, you know who
look at this who look at themselves on the right
side of history they.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
Were was right.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah, I mean there have to be people who went
from separatists to immediately into being on the rebel side.
You know, like there there's we we painted as a
you know, good and bad. But this show has really
just made me sit there and think long and hard
about it. I've been I'm just gonna go into my
soapbox that I've been thinking about now. Of every country

(11:42):
in history, you've got people disagree, and right now, even
in our own country, we're very polarized. We've got people
who think everybody is the devil on the other side.
But then when you kind of look at our own
history American Revolution, the second we have our own country
and the war over and we win, you have two

(12:02):
people who hate each other at the center of it,
Hamilton and Jefferson, and there's a new thing happening. But
it's like that healthy push and pull where this had
to have that. I don't know how I got here
from Luthen being a separatist, but everybody was saying that.
Hamilton on the other side said, you are a you
are just trying to rebuild a monarchy. You are you

(12:23):
are just building Britain and over here the government we
broke away from. I bet Luthen would be saying that
about man Mathma after the fact, if he would have
survived and been a part of the Republic, the growing republic.
He was said, you are just recreating the empire. What
are you doing? Because in my head he was always
against the old Republic.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
You know, he's he kind of did in the in
the earlier episodes of and Or, he like he called
her out. He's like, you know, I'm saying things you're
too scared to say. Yeah, you know, the empire's choking
us so slowly that we don't realize it that we
need to make it more obvious. It's it's the same
like kind of mentality, like you're going along with something
thinking you can change it from the inside, when the

(13:02):
reality is it's far too gone and we need to
do all the things that we're doing here.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Mm hmm. And I like that they didn't explicitly tell
us about his backstory. And I hope we never revisit
him as a character because I want to be having
these debates forever.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Yeah, his character for this show, just like you know,
with this conversation with Ma Motha you talking about Chris.
He's just here to be like, hey, this isn't going
to be done. This isn't going to be as clean
as you want, Like you're not going to come out
looking good in these situations. Every time he was willing
from jump to do the dirty work and to get
his hands dirty and to sacrifice his humanity and all

(13:35):
these things, and everyone else was so busy trying to
like I don't know, because like you know, you got
Thaws Sols just insane. But Luthan kept looking at these
people and he was like you guys, it's almost like
he knew where it was going. He knew what was
going to eventually happen.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
He was holding out for that one thing like you
haven't is established now, like man Mathm is there now,
and like the close relationship he had with her he had,
I mean, he you would think he might have been
swayed to give up the Sharad and take refuge over
there and go because he had things set up on
yav and himself with the Maya paper gade and what
the passageway that and or is using for, But like

(14:12):
he knew in his head, like there's something more that
I'm here for that I have to be ready for,
and it's it's the Dusk Star. Yeah, and he finally
learns about it, and we talk about all the different
catalyst points now that we see on the show of
Andor like this whole thing, like the rebellion and the
ability to be here, hinges on one night and ors
off looking for his missing sister and accidentally kills two.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, all the memes with the Dominos.

Speaker 5 (14:37):
I mean, it's just it's it's you could tie this
all back to Dedra just being over zealous and trying
to climb the ladder, the fact that she was collecting
intelligence she wasn't supposed to have that made it possible
for Lannie to find out about the Desk Star.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
Well, I mean, you gotta think Cyril then, because he
constantly when he was literally told by his supervisors sleep
under the rug, he didn't, and he kept pressing. And
then when he got to course, and he kept pressing
with Dedra and led him to do all those things.
So like, yeah, no, it's it's crazy how people on
both sides had to do what they had to do
to get it to the point where Luke can shoot

(15:15):
the famous shot and destroy the death Star.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah. I mean and even if even if Cassie and
is still there, if that was if if Cyril just
just listened to his boss and not gone too hard
like his boss was like, eah, it was fine.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, yeah, all right, So we have we have one
last part we got touched on for these episodes, and
that is the video game style hospital infiltration.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
Yes, it did. It did feel like a mission. It
feel like a Star Wars Outlaws mission.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Bases of Claire. Yes, like they thought she was a
team of multiple.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
Jesus Christ is Claia born, like like literally exactly. Yeah.
When they were like, there's multiple, there's multiple people, I
was like, dude, three at least. Yeah. Her breaking into
the locks just like the way the lock mechanism worked,
and then they're just like doming a couple of stormtroopers
and guards like, oh.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
About just like the level that she goes to, she
knew the nurse's outfit that she had to collect. She
had to get that thing to break into the locker.
She had a lock pick thing, and just like the
ability to camouflage herself and get in and out and
do what she needed to do.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
And you know what.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
I applaud her resolve in the end, like she's she's
with this father figure that she's gated her and told of,
and she's able to in the you know, not take
too long and get caught or like she's able to
do what she has to do. Like usually you see
a TV show, these people they hesitate and they're and like,
I don't I don't think it takes away any less
from what he means to her. It's just the fact
that she knows how important it is, and you see

(16:41):
her breakdown later in the safe house.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
It's just I love the fact that it didn't need
to be said.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Hmm.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
Like once she realized that he wasn't dead, she was like, oh,
I have to finish this or the rebellion is jeopardized.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
There was no thought of rescue.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah, she was like like like yeah, she didn't think
I got to get him out of there. She saw
I got to pull the plug on and like that
right there. It just shows you how insanely sacrificial you
have to be to pull this off. These characters man,
like they are made of stuff that a lot of
people aren't. Like I don't think a lot of people
realize what these guys go through and have done. It's man,

(17:18):
you know, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
I mean Cyril, Cyril is the average person.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, he's a dude trying to do bright by what
he understands.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
You do your own job and you get there and
you see what happens. Like this really just paints like
who would you be and if we were here? And
you know that's just reality for some of it, and
it's it's honestly, may honestly makes me feel bad. I'm
sitting there looking at like, Gosh, I don't know if
I could do something like this, and you always think,
you know, you're you'd be like the heroes, right everybody. Yeah,

(17:47):
a lot of people could put themselves into Luke Skywalker
shoes of just jumping in and saving the day.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
Seas when you got the force. Yeah, but when you
have to think.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
About, like the the actual work that went into this.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah, it's gonna take a second to get on a
little soapbox here because I think and Ors is opening
up a lot of discussion to kind of take away
a little bit from what Luke did.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah, yeah, no, please please, Like At.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
The same time, this guy lot, you know, he's spent
his entire life, looking to the stars, thinking he's meant
for more instead of working on this farm and all.
In like a matter of a day or two, he
loses his aunt and uncle goes on this mission to
like sees what the empire really is and all that,
and then you know, loses his best friend from growing up.
In that moment, almost everybody around him and he knows
he's like almost surely dead. And in that moment he's

(18:31):
able to use the force that he's never really been
trained to use. And so and then what he goes
on to do and return of the Jeda and all that.
So I think it's I think it's equally important. I
think it's different. I think just because he has the
gift of the force and everything, I don't think it
take necessarily takes away from what he did compared to
what Cassie and stuff.

Speaker 3 (18:50):
That's weird.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
As the point of discussion, I know we're not saying that,
but I just want to I want to give Luke
a little bit of flowers too, Like this, all this
stuff is fantastic. We're going to rave continued even bought
these characters and the sacrifices they made.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
But yeah, I I completely agree you see a lot
of that kind of discourse, and it's like, okay, you're
you're to quote Justice League. That feels like an oversimplification.
You know, it's mainly making a reference like how they
made Robin so the kids can see themselves as that.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
But yeah, I know I agree with your point that
you're making to it.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, and also.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
The showman stres the offensive guard Luke Dereck Henry running
from behind them.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Okay, like yeah, hey guys, it's going to be a
Protector of the Year award now, so the offense maybe
it's and or as why the offensive.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
I was also sitting here thinking about that this show
made one small thing in in a New Hope make
more sense, and honestly it kind of relates. I'm going
to pull Cyril back and again makes Cyril helps understand
Luke a little bit more. It's not like I like
the Empire. I hate it. But then also, like five
minutes earlier, he was saying, maybe I'll join the Academy

(19:57):
next year, like he was going to go join No,
like he didn't, he didn't like his his government, but
he was still going to sign up.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Yeah, to take it from marine. I understand that it
makes the rebellion seem deeper than just and you know,
like I said, we're not taking away from what Luke
and Han and all those guys did and in a
New Hope in trilogy, but like, you don't ever think
when they join the rebellion, it's already established. You don't
ever wonder how that happened. You're just like, oh, it's here,

(20:26):
the good guys are here. And just see how they
got to that point where they can even get a
Luke Skotwalker to come and save the day.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Well, if anything, it makes that, it makes that all
more possible because of all the work they got.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah here, yeah, yeah, No, Luke is diminished. Did was
just prop up another character in Star Wars. We have
another hero to love, and that's and Or Casting and
or in other great characters to know about in the
rebellion time.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
So a lot of this talk was rebellion side of things.
I think the next episode will get a little bit
more into kind of the empire side of things that
we saw in these episodes. So Kessel run down for
episode eleven. Episode eleven titled Who Else Knows? Dedra is

(21:12):
interrogated by Krenik, who admonishes her for allowing her data
to be leaked and for confronting Luthen alone. The investigation
is assigned to Here, who identifies Claia and Partigaz declares
her a public health concern to aid her arrest. In
the safe house, Clia contacts Wilman, who in turn recruits Cassian, Melschie,

(21:34):
and k Twoso to retrieve Luthan, despite rebel leadership being
fed up with their disobedience. Dedra gives here insight into
Luthen's communications and his team tracks Claya to the safe
house right after Cassian and Melschie enter to retrieve her.
She reveals that the Empire's building a super weapon, but
wishes to stay behind as the rebels on Yevin four

(21:56):
deeply distrusts Luthen. As here It's team closes in and
K twos so enters the building and begins attacking imperials.
That also touched upon something we also like didn't talk
about with Dedra in the first part, like her confrontation
of Luthan. Oh sorry, yes, let's get in certain certain
points of view.

Speaker 4 (22:12):
Episode eleven, Lou, You're going to find that many of
the truths we cling to it depends rickly on our
own point of view.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
The Dadra scene where she comes in and she puts
that StarPath unit down.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
How cool was that?

Speaker 3 (22:26):
Oh my gosh, starting over season one, it means even
more now, It's like wow.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
And you could just see she like built this up
a completely different way in her own way.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
She practiced this, She practiced that in the mirror, like
she was so excited.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
Well, hey, as obsessed as Cyril was with finding Cassie,
And that's how obsessed with Dedra has been with finding access.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yeah, which I love that they refer to the rebels.
That little detail is so beautiful to me, just just
her mindset. If Cyril's death and his character arc made
us sit here in question, you know what, maybe Zero
was in another scenario, a decent person. She got wrapped
up in the wrong side. Dedra is pure evil, corn

(23:06):
core through and through. There is no redeeming characteristic of her.
As a matter of fact, when you see her come
up and I was like, that is the most justified
villain finish that I think I have seen.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Let's save that part for the end.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah, But but no, Dedra, Uh, this whole this whole
episode of her getting arrested and the you know critic,
oh my god, but uh yeah, no.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
All that the this just again it makes the empire
scary even yes, there are people that are in secret
meetings and are in that secret council about Gorman and
the fact that like all she was trying to do
was further her own career and grow, and the way
it fell apart for her, Like she didn't commit any crime,
she didn't do anything wrong, but she gets arrested and

(23:53):
persecuted and it's all her fault that everything comes crashing
down here.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah, yeah, uh, it definitely helps me make empire feel
more evil, right, like you gaslit you know, your own employees, right,
somebody was trying to work harder further a cause. Granted
she was sloppy about it and did go rogue, but
the punishment that she got for that was it almost

(24:17):
makes the audience feel kind of bad.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
Well, the thing about it is like she had gone
rogue several times and it benefited them. That's why she
didn't get in trouble. The moment it didn't benefit them,
they threw her away. You know, the empire for me
was Citius Vader and stormtroopers. Like that was all I
interpreted the Empire was, and now I'm like, no, the
Empire is like a government and systems and you know,

(24:40):
prison sentences being extended.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Spies everywhere, listening devices on every singing members.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
And it's quite literally a fascist state, and like it's insane.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
And I'm also now reading the I think it was
designed to be a companion to season two coming out.
It came out just before it's called Mask of Fear,
Bail and mon Mathma. As soon as the Emperor declared
the Empire, he arrested them all, detained them all. They
didn't end up getting charges, but they held all of them.
So this just ties all of that in together.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
He's terrifying.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
So I had a thought too, Like we talked about
last episode. We know Bail is on Yevin now, but
like remember he stayed back, Yeah, and he couldn't leave
it at this point.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Lea is a senator, isn't she.

Speaker 6 (25:23):
I mean she has she has to be right, Yeah,
just stepped down, gone to Yavin and she well, I'm
saying when he steps down, maybe she starts to pull
back to and be more al durned like because she's
his she's his person that he uses to go find
Obi Wan during brook one and and be away from

(25:44):
It but a year ago.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
The last episode arcs when when Don Mathma leaves and
it's like Belle's like, I can't go with you yet,
I'll see you in a year, Like I wonder if
he's doing what he can to get her.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, yeah, maybe.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
He's trying to make sure she's taking care of him
out of there.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah, I mean that that was my assumption.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
I was honestly thinking that election was coming up and
she was going to move into that role so they
could still have he Maybe they still wanted eyes and
Ears in the Senate and it wasn't time for him
to come yet until Lea became a senator goes in.
Then he feels like he could go be a. He
can go lead on Yava.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Maybe so's there's a lot of the Imperial stuff on.
You know, some of the scenes with Krenick and Deadro
were just terrifying.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
Yes, yes, the famous shot of the finger on the
top of the head and the.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Ad lib that that was that wasn't in the script.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Wow, honestly almost makes you feel even more bad for Credic,
like he's kind of again you don't feel bad. He
pretty directly responsible for the death of an entire planet.
But it's like, man, what a bad, bad run he
had there right at the end. Yeah, that's the same
as all these guys party gases.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Uh yeah man the minute, yeah, that's that happens in
the next but like the minute you you outlive your usefulness,
You're done.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
You're gone, You're gone. It's scary, it's.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
It's genuinely I am terrified at this scenario ever happening.
Please don't ever, I don't everyonet experiences in my life.
Side note, just just because it's just from a veteran,
I love the way the Empire's military is portrayed in
this Outside of the stormtroopers. I love how stormtroopers are like,
oh my god, it's a stormtrooper. Like stormtroopers are coming,

(27:28):
Like that's a big deal. It's not like, oh here
come stormtroopers, but uh they're like little special forces team.
They tried to go track them down. That whole scenario,
the conversation is the way they acted. I loved it.
H The way they cleared out the like city block
and like all that military stuff was was just like
I just got super excited because I do like seeing
the military aspect of the Empire the way they portrayed it.

(27:50):
But then K twoso just coming in and saving the day.
And it's once again great writing because as Cassie in
in in Claya, she's like trying to get them understanding,
like I need you to listen to these words I'm saying,
repeat these back. As the guys are coming, I'm like
getting anxious. I'm like, oh my god, they're gonna get caught,
and like, I know Cassian indoors gonna make it out

(28:12):
of this. But still on the edge of my seat
the whole episode, like how they're gonna And then even
when like they like you know, stunned them, I was like,
how are they gonna get out of this? Not thinking
is over there?

Speaker 1 (28:23):
I was so worried that that Clay was gonna be dead.
Yeah yeah, and I'm very glad that she wasn't.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
One big plot hole that K two really just threw
into this whole thing. Why did Cassian yell at him
and rogue one again to stay on the ship. I thought,
I told you stay on the ship, like he just
saved you.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, after that it was justified, like yeah, he saves them,
But like Jin shoots that one that comes out in
Rogue one, and he's like, how did you know there
wasn't me? And and also we saw him almost get
like interrogated by the stormtroopers and say you're gonna get reprogrammed.
So it was warranted as as to why going to
stand the ship, but just because this is part of

(29:02):
his character, it's as to it.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
I was speaking of their speaking of their relationship. I
did really appreciate the card game or was it that's
a box, right, a box?

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Who knows you feel like every card game in Star Wars, yes, Bakiyah,
but it's always it's always different.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Yeah, yeah, but like that that whole like little scenario
of like like the levity moments that you can see
they've gotten in each other over a year. That was
really nice. I really did enjoy seeing that because it
made their rapport in in uh in Rogue one deeper
for me, Like because I know they had at least
spent a year together. What they're just pay it up
for that movie, you know. Yeah, Yeah, it's good the

(29:40):
episode because I think we all just want to guess
about how much it means to us that the show
did the things for.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Us episode twelve titled Jetta kuyber urso K two s
O kills here and his team, but Claya is wounded.
I see Melschi and k Twoso take her back to
Yavin four, where they are grounded by Bail for their disobedience.

(30:06):
Much of the rebel leadership, including Bail, do not trust
Luthen's intel, but man Mathma is willing to hear clea out.
Bell talks with Cassian, who convinces her of Luthen's integrity,
and they toast their fallen comrades. Side note, I was
really upset they didn't mention Brasso. Yeah all the people
I know, I know, Veldn know him, but yeah. Partigas

(30:29):
commits suicide upon realizing he is to be arrested, while
a weeping Dedra is imprisoned in a prison facility similar
to Narkina five as a rebel informant associated with SAW
contacts Yavon four, begging to talk with Cassian. The rebel
leadership realizes that the evidence is too great to be
a trap and agrees to let Cassian and k Twoso

(30:50):
fly to Kaffrin to meet with the informant. Pleya accepts
her role on Yavin four with Wilman Mahn and vell
On Mina Rau B two. Emo plays with another Droid.
Well Bix cradles a baby, her child with Cassian, and
looks wistfully toward the horizon.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
Jedi and Or I told you, guys, I told you.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
We're all wiping away the tears here, guys.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, I just before we get before we get into light.
The series is of this, How great of a shift
is that prisons have going to have with her being
in charge?

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Is she in charge? She's gonna be a shift leader? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Does she know how to swim?

Speaker 3 (31:27):
Dedro would not care to learn anything other than what
is necessity necessary?

Speaker 1 (31:31):
Jocide. Let's get into our certain points of view.

Speaker 4 (31:34):
You're going to find that many of the foods we
cling to depend brickly on our own point of view.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
I mean, we can continue with jokes, but it's very
dramatic and ties in really nicely to rogue one. But
there's a small part of me that wanted like a
Rebels style epilogue, But I know that that's be being greedy,
that that's a complaint, not an issue.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
So I think you got it with like the you
got a bit of it with Dejah being in the prison. Yeah,
with Yeah Bix being alive and happy, on Mina Row,
with Claya being okay, and on Yavin Bell and I.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
Have a solution to a Star Wars plat hole.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
I thought that was rogue one.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Nope.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
Good.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Everybody talks about how long you know, oh my gosh,
it took them so long to build the first Steath Star.
But then Dedra gets into prison, they just pumped the
second one, right, I.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
No, I mean that's that's a good thing to touch
upon because we saw how long it took them to
build this one. We saw how much how many resources
they need. They tore apart the planet Gorman to have calkite.
They did the PRD so they'd have more labor to
build it and all that other stuff. But like the
reason they were it took them nineteen years to do that,

(32:57):
and then what two and a half years to build
the third one, which one wasn't finished. Two they had
a lot of the they had the plans already established,
they knew how to build it. That stuff was all done.
But they also didn't have to hide it the way
they had to this time as an energy project.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, like the Emperor could just do whatever you wanted.
They didn't know how to make the weapon until the
very end they were building the Death Star. I mean
the station may have been done well before the weapon
was ready. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
Do they assume that the Empire just took the materials
they needed for one?

Speaker 1 (33:28):
That's a good point too, like they're probably stockpiling stuff.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
Like why I assume they were only building one at
a time.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
If you have a weapon like that and you want
to continually use it, you have to continually power it.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
Yeah, I just assumed they would, like halfway through the beginning,
like halfway through the making the first one, start the second.
We have all these extra mens, we still have these materials.
They're still coming in. The prison sentits aren't done, you know,
like how.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
They used to make movies, you know, like film. You
filmed most of the second movie while you were filming
the first one, and then you finished the second one
a little bit later. But it's only I like to
think that they didn't even think about it and Dedra
going in. They're just.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Over material now with this one prison we got to
use it. Yeah, and she gets a promotion, ends up
being on the third Dust Star.

Speaker 3 (34:09):
When it Yeah, yeah, we learned. We learned some later books.
She helped, she helped build Star Killer base.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
No, Jesus, she's actually what's what's her name? I'm sorry,
oh gosh, I don't watch the sequels enough, shiny oh FAsMA.
She's actually Captain Fastma.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
The only thing about this this episode that you know,
it didn't bother me because like it was, it was intentional.
I was really frustrated with the rebel leadership. I understood
why they didn't trust Luthan because I had the full
knowledge of the situation, but from their perspective, yeah, I
I absolutely see why they felt that way, but it
was so frustrating because you have and Or who I

(34:55):
would think they would trust, but he also has been
like not listening and doing whatever he wants. So like
they also kind of like it all made sense, but
it was just effectively done. I was like, yeah, because
the end of the day, there was just all people
trying to stop an empire, but also trying to figure
out how to make a better situation.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
You know, there are also people who have been cogs
in the empire for the most part, like some of
them are their former senators. They've seen how intricate and
how involved they could be. They know what the ISB is,
they know theyre like it makes complete sense that they
would get like something enticing to draw them out and
try to wipe them out all at once.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
That's what ends up happening in Return of the Jedi.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
It's it's fake plans to draw them all into one spot,
and then the Empire planned on like wiping them all
out with one thing, so that trap that they were
worried about and here actually comes to pass later on.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
So their their feelings are kind of warranted.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
But do you think that they would at least want
to suss it out and give you know, investigat, which
they do end up doing. But I'm the same as you.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
And it also helps build the case for the sequels
a little bit. You can see the flaws and their
governance already, Like I mean, they're good, but they don't
end up in a spot where they're good leaders for
the for the entire galaxy, and they they kind of
try to overcompensate. And you can see I'm getting more
and more okay with how quickly the the New Republic

(36:15):
falls and and you can kind of see the seeds
of it here where man mathma is Is is great
at doing the right thing, but you could see that
she almost gets herself to a point where she's, I
don't know what the right word is, but she gets
to the point where she's once they win, complacent maybe no,
not complacent, idealized and idealized. She idealizes the government that

(36:37):
they created because of the principles behind it to start it.
And that's why Leah is a pulling back on her
resistance and you're waving.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
I'm gonna tie this all back to your point earlier
about Hamilton and recreating the monarchy. It's like that that's
what they know, that's that's what they that's what they
think works, and what they have to do there. So
of course she's not gonna she's not gonna be bad
like them. She's not gonna be bad like they can was.
She's going to be good. But it'll still resemble the
same framework, which is exactly what the US government did.

(37:07):
We had the Articles of the Federation. We tried to
do that, and then we realized very quickly, awful.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
You're not gonna work. Oh man, here we go. Now,
I'm jazzed. I'm jazz You mentioned that I am here.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
I knew I would use my history degree for something someday.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Oh my goodness. But yeah, you've seen it in her speech.
She believes in the Republic. Yeah, and she blames Palpatine,
and Palpatine helps her wipe away he's a monster. Yeah,
you wipe away the flaws of the Republic and you
they fell right back into the trap.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
All I'm hearing is sequel redemption, and I'm just like, okay, yeah,
but no, but we even we.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Saw, we saw the s in Aska. She couldn't go
against that one senator or representative to help Harah, and
she had to go she had to like back end
her way to do it. It's it's this, it's the
same thing.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Well, and Disney's forcing this mindset on me because they
want the sequel redemption because when you finish, but when
you finished this episode, it says would you like to
watch Rogue one next? And you're like, yeah, I would,
and then you hit play and then it's a whole
new movie. We're probably gonna talk about that too. But
when Rogue one was done, my Disney plus was like,

(38:17):
you know what the logical next thing is? You just
saw them hand the plans to Princess Leia and the.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
Watch Jedi.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, and then I said, I tell you guys the
picture It said, hey, do you want to watch the
Last Jedi? Like, that's not usually what I watch after
Rogue one, but I had I had a few bourbons
that day I hit play.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
It's like I said, they gotta they gotta push the
low performers.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
Yeah, they had a gotta get their return.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
So the last three Star Wars projects I have watched
are the finale of and Or, Rogue one, and The
Last Jedi. That is my moment. That's that's my most recent.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
Any any last thoughts on the third episode before we
talk about the series as a whole and give I hate.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
And love that they didn't allude to anything about the
baby that it exists. She just pulled a Jenny from
Forrest Gump on him.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
All about that Bell.

Speaker 3 (39:07):
Knew, right, I would assume Bell new.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yeah, like she was telling Cassie and he needs to
It's like, I think you want to get get in contact.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
I the only the only complaint, the only the only issue,
not a complaint. The only issue that I have is
that this show.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
It's an issue. It's not a complaint.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
No, no, no, it's a complaint. It's a complaint.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
The show ends so perfectly seamlessly into Rogue one that
I'm mad. There can't be any space in between a
half more end doors. That's the only thing I was upset,
Like it's over. I'm not gonna see this anymore.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
I mean there could you could do a comic series,
for sure, for in betweens. You could do some books.
There's some room. But yeah, there is no one between.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
Right at the where No, I mean the between the episodes,
oh yeah, yeah between.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, between like the year gap. Sure,
but but yeah, no, there's no end of season three
and and like if any if any show ever deserved
to keep going, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
I just hope they keep these folks involved who made this,
and just say here's another era.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Just yeah, I want them to do an and or
style show for during the original trilogy, like let's see
where man Mathma is this entire time the Alliance leadership
is handling having to switch bases and stay away from
the Empire to.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
Show us the fall of the New Republic.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
I'm talking about during the during the original trilogy, to
get to the New Republic.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
I can let's do the New Republic show.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
That's true. Well we're getting that with ah Soka and
Mendalorian and true that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
But like have a you know, create a new character.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
It could be someone who's an and Or style like uh,
someone who has no connection to any of these people,
or they could be they could be your main they
could be your main story point for this ors. You
have creative leeway to do whatever you want. Have their
story be whatever you want, but like have it tie
into some of the things we know is going on.
So you have rebels trying to get out of there,

(41:01):
we have the Alliance gathering at Sullist, we have things happening,
like we know all the underworld stuff that's going on
at that point because we're playing Outlaws and yeah, you
know reading the comics that like bring Kira back. I
don't know, there's so many other things you could do
to tell this kind of story, and you know, this
kind of give let us live in this world in

(41:22):
the way we did with and Or. So it's it's
not the character who we love and want more of,
but something similar.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
I'll ask one question because I think the one I
don't want to call it a nitpick, but I will say,
similar to how the sequels kept they wouldn't shut up
about their practical effects. Oh we do. We only do
practical effects. Where this is so great? Where this show
has bragged a lot about their lack of cameos, and

(41:53):
let's take Crenick out of it because he was just
a part of the cast.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Like it.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
What is there anywhere where you feel that they show
detached themselves too much from the greater lore of Star
Wars or do you think they did it right?

Speaker 3 (42:06):
I did see this because I'm scarcely on the internet anymore,
but like I did see this, No, no, uh I
because they are a part of the story too, Like
like these characters have to have their role, they have
their part separate from our you know big three or
four or five characters that we all know and love,
we know their stories. They don't need to be in

(42:29):
this for it to still be as an it, Like
I think honestly, for me, that's why I enjoy this
so much. And I know we don't like the first
Jedi superheroes, but like it took the superheroes out of it.
There was there was a there was a television show,
short little television show things Got Powerless. You guys remember that?

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (42:45):
Yeah, it was about people in the DC universe that
like worked like insurance claims or something. Yes, like the
show didn't last any time, but that's a that's a
that's an incredible subject matter, Like you were talking about
making that show during the rebellion, right, I would love
to have to hear out like people on HATH talking
about the crazy, insane things these myths of this Jedi

(43:06):
out there, yeah, are leading the rebellion on some fronts,
you know, Like that'd be so cool.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
There are people who are on HATH who never saw
Leah Han or Luke ever.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
They were just work. They were just at work every day.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yeah yeah, and they may have just heard about them,
you know, And like I would love to hear them
talk about that. I was once trying to write I
once trying to write a short story about basically a
commissioner Gordon to a batman, Like what's it like to
like be a detective working with this enigma a vigilante,
Like how he interprets it, how he sees the vigilante,

(43:40):
how they think of these characters like that. That's fantastic,
in my opinion, rounds out the world of Star Wars
where it's not so top heavy for me, the little
guys matter here.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
You know, the answer the question about cameos. From my perspective,
you know, I can kind of go both ways. Like
I honestly, I would have loved to have seen the
Emperor Palpatine at some point this because he's referenced so
much and it's such a big impact. But also it
makes him more scary that we don't see him. He's

(44:08):
still this, he's still this looming factor. So like, I
don't it, I don't even have It's not even a
complaint for me with him. They brought in enough of
their own people like Melchie and K two s O
and drave In and the other the other the comms guy. Yeah,
well credit too. They brought in their own guys from
from Rogue one, which is what they're going to tie into,

(44:29):
and they brought enough of them in that it made
sense because if you didn't bring enough of Rogue one
in and then you lead directly into Rogue one, it's
gonna be well, what are all these other people that
are so important? So I like that they they took
the time to bring those people in. Yeah, but like
you said, they did definitely did not need to keep
bringing in people from the larger Star Wars story and

(44:49):
and im and the big one that we talked about
on the show was Bail Worgana, And I think that
was absolutely necessary. Yeah, Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad they
had him still mm hmm, what.

Speaker 3 (44:58):
The import thing? I particularly, I thought it was cool
that we didn't see him because one, yeah, it makes
him scary, but two it's just like these people wouldn't
see him, like he's the emperor.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Well we were in Senate sessions. Yeah, he should have
At this point, I guess he doesn't have to waste
his time doing that anymore.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Yeah, Like at one point in our lives, I had
no idea what the president was doing. When I was younger,
I had no idea what he was doing. I knew
he was there, I knew he made rules, I knew
he made speeches. I might have caught one every once
in a while, but like, I didn't know what the
president was doing. He was the president. I'm a civilian.
What you know? Now, I know everything. I know too
much about what the president's doing. But like I just

(45:39):
kind of take that mentality with like the Senate hearings maybe,
but like anything else, like there's no need to cut
to a scene of him when you got the isb
doing all that already you.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Know early in and or when you have you Lauren
saying I spoke with the Emperor this morning. I mean
that kind of thing is is it keeps him there looming.
He's the important one, He's that one Smallville.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Yeah. I had seen some of the conversation about it,
and I just I kind of I think I agree.
It depends on the character by character. And again, could
they have done a cameo tasteful? Sure, But I think
they spent all their money in the right spots. I don't.
I don't quite Like would I want somebody to make
a donation and added like a speech by Ian McDermott

(46:18):
That would have been fun. Yeah, but I think they
spent all of their money just fine, And I'm glad
with the show we ended up with. It could be cool,
but also it also makes the movies even more special,
Like there's so many places where we could have seen
what somebody was doing at this time. But that's the
story to tell.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
No, No, it wasn't. Yeah, no, no, no, deviation is
to Tattooine.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Yeah, we'll eventually find out what happens to Calcastus somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
Yeah, or ah Soca.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yeah, all right, let's convene the Jedi Council one last
time for and Or, and I'm very anxious to learn
what they may have to say about the show.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
One last time. I must speak with the Jedi Council immediately.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
The situation has become much more complicated. We know it's
getting a master Yep, yeah, it's getting a master Let's
take our turns talking about what the show has meant
for us overall. I'll go first, Like, for me, the
biggest part of the show is despite I mean, you
have an ensemble of characters, like this is Cassie and
and Or the and Or show.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
I would I would.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
I'd be interested to see like the screen time of
all the different characters and how close it is between
our main characters we brought it about. I love living
in this world. Like we saw Feryx, we saw all Donnie,
we saw Narquina the prison, we saw Niamos, we saw Shandrilla,
we saw Chorussant, we saw Yavin, and we got to

(47:44):
see all these different aspects and to live and really
understand what it would have been like during this time
period and how awful the empire really was, and that
perspective is my favorite part of the show.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
I was I was watching I was watching the first
season again, recapping of this whole show, and talk to
my wife about, Hey, what do you think about the show?
You know, because she's not a very big Star Wars fan.
She's seen the originals, but like, you know, you know,
she's you know, I think our first date we saw
episode three together.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
There you go, that's when you knew she was a winner.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Yeah, But I was telling her, and I think I
can say this without being confusing to shoot you guys,
because you guys are big Star Wars fans too, But
I was. I was so thankful to see something I
love so much be handled with such respect. You know
what I'm saying it like genuinely because because Star Wars

(48:33):
is this Star Wars is so big now, it's so
everything you know, But at heart it captured us all
three as young people. It inspired us to be imaginative
and to see the world through these different ways, and
it taught us all these lessons and everything that a
lot of people on the outside of Star Wars don't get.
It just looks like people holding glow sticks hitting each other.
And I get that. I get it from the outside

(48:53):
looking in what it can look like. But when you
get into the weeds in it, as much as like
us reading books and like buying dollar light say Berds
and like really diving into this world, when you see this,
it's just like, man, it kind of feels good, you know,
not that I was ever embarrassed, but you can kind
of stand up a little straight or like, yeah, this
is this is in Star Wars. This also is Star Wars.
It deserves respect. Yeah. I just really appreciate everyone on

(49:16):
that show, the writers, everything. It was handled like it
was going for Oscars and Emmys and it wasn't just
cashing in a name, and so I was really thankful
for that.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
I love that this show, I guess just personally reignited
something like that's I don't mean to get emotional on it,
it's just like it's it has me sitting there late
at night thinking about the intricacies of Star Wars while
my wife is asleep and I hear my baby making

(49:46):
sounds and I'm just sitting there, laying there and I'm like,
so Cyril like just gave his life to an organization
that just turned its back on him.

Speaker 5 (49:55):
Like that.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Those are the thoughts I'm having in the middle of
the night. And I just love the the depth that
the show added to somewhere that it's best when a
prequel makes it feel like it always was there. Yeah,
and like you're like, how did I live in a
world where this didn't exist? But also just adds so
much depth like it because people act like it cheapens

(50:18):
what Luke does. Right, We talked about that a few
about an hour ago, but it really just adds so
much more depth and you feel the sacrifice of how
much it took to set that up, and it just
makes me want to.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
Cry that it shows why the galaxy needs Jedi.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Heck yeah, and and and it shows that they why
it was so it shows the importance of patients to
some degree too, right, Like you know, people could say
like Obi Wan should have gotten involved sooner and should
have been fighting alongside, and maybe you know, he could
have been the one to save the day, right, but no,
the patients of waiting for everything to be mature enough

(50:57):
for that type of leadership to be for it to
be ready for that type of leadership, Like you need Saws, Luthen,
and Mons to get to a point where you can
have a Lukan and Lea.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Yeah, So while we're talking to all the different people
that you need and their contributions, let's hand out some awards.
Let's do it so we have the awards for this
arc and then also the show overall. Okay, so I
mean we kind of did the first season, so it
should the second.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Season, I guess.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
So, yeah, because the first seas there.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Yeah, so we'll do We'll do this arc and I
think the results would be the same probably probably, Yeah, yeah,
Like can we just can we just take a second
to see, like how many like fantastic female characters? Strong
leads that the show is put out.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
In different types of characters.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
But it's it's something that it it you know, it
doesn't you almost don't, not that you don't notice it,
but it's well when you when you stop, yeah, it's
we can we stop thinking about it, Like, Wow, they
did something that that not a lot of have done
and they did it very well.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
This this this show in twenty twenty five. I mean
it even before when endovers Er came out first season.
This show has LGBTQ characters in it, strong female leads
who beat up men and battlemen and just just things
that have been nerve points to certain Star Wars corners
that I barely heard anything about in this and it

(52:27):
is credit to like, yes, these were well written characters.
These characters weren't written this way to make a point.
They just were characters who happened to have these attributes
and characteristics of themselves. But yeah, no, yeah, this show,
there was not one point I didn't buy veil and
sent to doing anything they did, you know it because
they're so well written, and you know, mon Matha and

(52:48):
all these characters.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Just a segue into me trying to push MVP of
this arc to Cleia.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
Yeah, the Claya's backstory completely, like at the buzzer recontextualizes
her entire character for me, Yeah, I was like, wow,
what an amazing.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Like what he is the character I have my eyes
on for the like the rewatch like yeah, the most Yeah,
Like before she was like oh this she's just this
girl in the background, like whatever, Yeah, now you just
you know how important she is.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
I mean even even luthen to an extent.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
And it's we haven't even said it Casian's sister.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
I so initially I thought yes, And I'm listening to
Tony Gilroy talk about it, and he's like that the
notion of looking for Cassie and sister. He likes that
it's open ended because it's going to constantly drive Cassie
to help other people and to you know, to like
help someone like Jin to find what she's looking for.
And there it's so like the fact that there is

(53:47):
no answer to it, and that it's that we don't
know who his sister is.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
Yeah, I I really don't want them to be related.
I love it there are two separate people.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
Yeah. It actually it makes them better for not being related.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Honestly, they could have done a better job of not
like making that a possibility. She looks straight like she looks.
I would want to go back and look at the
younger actress who played the sister and then compare. I
think it looks very close and like the environment of
the planet that I know. We only saw the inside
of the ship that can very easily have been Kenari.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
Yeah mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
Even story wise, So it's definitely a possibility that I
would not close down they they didn't.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
They didn't give any closure to any theories.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
That that's that's that's real life, like sometimes.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Lutheran could still be a Jedi. Al Right, So my
my m v P. What was Claia?

Speaker 3 (54:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (54:41):
No, yeah, next is our comeback player.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
There's a lot we're we gonna do, were we gonna do?

Speaker 3 (54:49):
Show?

Speaker 1 (54:49):
And or so then who's your who's your m v
P for the entire season?

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Cassie and mother and or there was a bleep.

Speaker 3 (55:01):
It's it's it's it's weird because like, my favorite character
in this show was Dedra. She's the most interesting character
and the performance that this actress did had me just captivated,
especially going back right now and watching season one, watching
those early scenes of her like in is SB. But
I'm trying to think of an MVP of the season.

(55:23):
I can't really vote her because she's such an evil,
evil person. But yeah, I mean, Chris, who do you?
Who do you have? Because Joey's saying, Cassian, who do
you got?

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Like for a season?

Speaker 1 (55:33):
For the season as a whole, I don't. I don't
think I can go anybody other than Cassian either.

Speaker 3 (55:37):
Yeah, I mean I was trying to see if there's
someone else that we can consider other than Cassian, but like,
I don't really think there is here.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
Yeah, I'm trying.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
But like the way the arcs are spread out, there's
different focus on different characters, Like you have Cyrial, you
have Clay, you have mon Mathma, I mean man Matha. Yeah,
Man Matha was the first arc, and yet Cereal in
De Dra the kind of second and third, and then
Clay and luthin the fourth ish.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
But the through line is and and it's to create
the year in between every arc was a very creative
way to just show what Cassing's going through, like these
big moments. The average person doesn't have every single year
something that could highlight how you got to where you are, right,
Like a lot of us live relatively not monotonous, but

(56:25):
just you know, we live our lives. Yeah, And for
him to have like these things like hey, I got
to draw your attention to this other thing he did
because any one of these arcs could have been the
last one and he could have felt like we got
to rogue one, but then at the next one just
adds so much more depth and you see everything he
goes through, and it was a really creative way to
do to give a character so much depth in only

(56:47):
twelve episodes. To be honest, do we give it to
Tony Gilroy? Yeah you might, honestly, Yeah, like this, this,
this storytelling method, honestly is better because like how many
times have we been like, Oliver, you're doing the same
thing you did last week. Stop, Yeah, you're getting kind
of exhausting. It doesn't have to be this dramatic every week.
Where taking the break and stepping away for a year

(57:10):
it actually made it feel more real.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
I mean, just just the way the show is written
over the entirety of the series. It's like in the beginning,
you know, you have and Or killing those two corporos.
That could have been season one, but that was just
a couple episodes in season one. And then he does
the thing on al Donnie that could have been an
entire season, but it was just a couple episodes. Then
he gets thrown in prison that could have been a
whole season.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Yeah, but it was a season show, you know what I'm.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
Saying, Like it just shows like like I love that
passage of time. Not everything didn't happen in a day.
Everything happened in a week. This happened over a course
of years of this man's life leading up to him
than the Death Star.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
Really, they gave us another How many arcs did we
have or twelve?

Speaker 3 (57:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (57:53):
Total of the show?

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Oh, total the show eight?

Speaker 2 (57:55):
Yeah, they gave us eight more movies like essentially yeah, yeah,
you know that gave depth to the Empire and the rebellion.

Speaker 3 (58:04):
And yeah, painted them and contextualized them in a way
that they hadn't been able to. I would say, outside
of animation, I feel like animation has done a pretty
good job of dealing with like, you know, the war
and the Clone Wars and the Rebels that you gotta
she more of in depth there. But to this extent, Nah,
this is this is making a lot of people look
at Star Wars, even if Star Wars a love different
and enriching it for them. It's kind of like, I

(58:25):
don't know, it's a win win for me, man, it
just makes Star Wars better.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
M VP, Cassie and Slash the writing team.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Yeah, for the whole.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Come back or so for the arc and then for
the series or for the season.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
I mean, is is K two appropriate for the arc?

Speaker 2 (58:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's back. He was for real
back this time.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
I want to say, man, she's the main character of
the show, so probably Melchi's solid.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
I'm thinking about Bail. I mean bail or Oh yeah, no,
K two, I mean even for.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
Let's let's give it for Bail because that got came
in and everyone's like, what you're not Jimmy Smithson.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
Then honestly, that leads right into Rookie. I want to
give it to I.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
Feel like rookie is new, new to the series, like
someone who's new.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Yeah, well, I would say the actor, I'm sorry, I'm
Bajamin Bratt, And for the rookie of the season to
take a legacy character with people like me spouting off,
do we really need to hear and just proving me wrong.
Granted it was more of the writing that did that.
I mean nothing against the performance, right, like it was

(59:42):
an essential character to what the story they told. I'm
I'm jumping away ahead here.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
I would also want to make a case for for
Claya because it's a new character to the show and
she really grew this this second season. Also, how about
the fact that this is the first paid acting gig
that actress.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
Yeah, well you told me that. I was kind of like,
you gotta be kidding me, because they.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Need to look just fantastic.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
Give these Give these young actor the chance, because I
just saw Sinners and the star of that one that
was his first ever acting gig too, and he's amazing
in it. Like, give get these young actors. They're hunger Man,
they can do something. Uh no yeah, Claya, no, yeah yeah.
If she doesn't get an award from anyone else, she's
gonna get one from this podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Dang it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
I know, how's this gonna? Are they going to hit
award season this year?

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
I think?

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
But they're also going up against like what like Severance
and what else. Yeah, there's there's another big show that
it's still some mores. I can't remember White Lotus.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
I don't know White Lotus done.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
But if there ever was a Star Wars show that
should have win or definitely, yeah, it's definitely this one,
all right, Skiing you know for this for this arc,
is it luthen a little bit killing Lannie? But yeah, dude,
I know, I know we talked about how important it
is and how is it the red oh no, skin
is the count, the council, Yeah, the rebel, the rebel,

(01:01:04):
the Alliance command.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Yeah, yeah, they were. I mean they their actions that
if the ends justify the means, Uh, you can say
that they did the right thing because eventually the death
started blow up because of the course we went on.
But man, they baby could have saved all the on
all right?

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
And uh wait, so then what about is that for
the season?

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Yeah? Or that was for the episodes or the arc,
so then the season would be Skeen sk series of Skeen.
But it's the season two. We should just give it
to the namesake of the award who originated from the show. Yeah,
but he was in the side. Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
I like rewatching it with my wife and see before
he does skeenish things, and I gotta like and.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
I have recently started watching the Bear, so it's really
thrown me off, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
And then lastly, we have the way toward.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Luthen, Luthen, Luthen all around.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Every Luthen for the arc. But does he beat out Cyril.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
Cereial for season two? Man? That dude unceremoniously just getting
shot in the head after the guy doesn't know he
is getting killed by the guy.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Oh man, he was lowering the blaster too.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
Yeah. Yeah, because he's the kind of situation where like,
if he didn't get shot in the head and he
had a conversation with with and or that's a show,
he would have become a revel you know what I'm saying.
But it's dead because this universe is not fair. He's
just got shot in the head.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
I would like to I would like the record to
show that Luthen was a nominee, gets it for the
arc for sure. Yeah, but he's for the show. But yeah, yeah,
he is for the show.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
While we're talking about like characters and things here, I
finally got my answer. We didn't talk about this in
the covers, about like what happened to Perrin and he's
just still on Corusont. But I guess everyone's pointing out
I didn't catch this. The woman that he's with and
that speeder is Davos Skulden's wife.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Yes, nice, that there's a twist that they had to be.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
That's for a reason, like they're putting that out there.
They're not just like, let's use this actress again, because
they could use anybody for that it's not it's not
a speaking role, but like the fact that it's yeah, okay,
parent that's and or season two, guys, that's and.

Speaker 3 (01:03:28):
Or Yeah, that's it. That's it done. Watch Rogue one
and have your mind blown.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
I honestly, they they came into that, Like the marketing
for the season was Diego Luna saying, You're gonna watch
Rogue one differently after this, and I'm just like, oh, yeah,
you know, but I'll enjoy it more that, Like it
completely changes my perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
On that, the same way Rogue one did for a
New Hope. Yeah you know. I mean, and they didn't Mark.
I don't think that he marketed that that way, but
it was. It was definitely happened.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
But do you guys know, like, do you remember how
much how many problems there were with Rogue one when
they were developing it, when they were doing it, like
they reshoot, They reshot a lot of it, they changed
things around, Like I forgot all about that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
I feel victim to the like following or I fell
to the same trap. I remember not caring about Rogue
one coming out. Oh yeah, and then it came out
and I was like it dethroned Revenge of the Sith
for me for a good like two years, Like I
was like, this is the best Star Wars movie ever,
and then I came to my census and now it's
like the second or third best Star Wars movie ever made.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Still I still say it's probably my favorite of them,
but I can't say it's the top because I don't
think it would be as important to me if it
weren't for the original trilogy exactly. So it's like hard
to say that, but it's, man, this stuff is so good.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
But like and then I did the same thing with Andor.
I was like, eh, that that show's coming out.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
It's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
And then and Or Season one came out, and then
I was like, wow, that was so good. And then
I would just like stopped caring for a little bit.
And then and season was coming out, is yeah, I mean,
then it's gonna be exciting. It'll be good, I'm sure.
And then I just need to it's just so dense.
I need to rewatch it and make it a priority, Okay,
because it's so good. It's so good.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Star Wars is so good right now, Joey, just say it.
We are so back there it is there. It is tallyboard.
We've got two entries to the tally board. Yes, two entries.
We have a plus one for Droid Saves because K
twos saves the day. Yes, that brings us to eighteen nice.
And we have a plus one for me the Force

(01:05:34):
be with you. Yeah, because we get that gem from
Bailorgana at the end, thank you bill, which brings us
to thirty two nice. And I'm sure there's canon immigrants
in everything here that I'm that we just didn't catch
because we're too busy enjoying it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
So I have too bad watching man. Okay, now you're
ready for Joe, We're ready. I grab two for the occasion,
and I want to show you. I grab two from
the Star Wars jokes. Star Wars dad joke. Don't worry, uh,
next pay check, there'll be two and mill I'll get
you guys's addresses. This is my gift to you, guys.
But they're full of great, great, great Star Wars dad jokes.

(01:06:11):
And I'll start off with one. I think it's topical
for each side of the show we just watched, gentlemen,
Where does the rebellion find its top leaders?

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
Top leaders.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
At the general store. Gentlemen, which planet do the Empire
like to visit for vacation?

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Hmmm?

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
Uh no, scare if because they're scary.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
That one's not your best.

Speaker 6 (01:06:43):
Book.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
It's an official joke.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
It's an official joke. Oh man, Yeah, I like like,
like I promised every week, I didn't think it would
be good. I just said it'll be jokes.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
Everyone.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
Thank you guys for sticking around with our coverage of
and Or. I'm gonna miss this. I'm gonna miss talking
about this show. Well, I'm sure we'll bring it up again.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
And we have nothing until Ahsoka season two, like next.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
Year, right, Yeah, as far as like new show, yeah,
I don't think anything. No, I don't think.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Well, there's this show that came out right in the
middle of and Or that everyone forgot about. Yes, I
haven't even touched at either, Tales of the Underworld.

Speaker 3 (01:07:19):
Yeah, I haven't checked it out yet.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Yeah, but it's one of your favorite characters in it too.

Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
No, I know, but I've been so stuck inn and Or,
and now I'm gonna be stuck an Ando for a
little bit longer because I'm rewatching it now.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
But I wish, I wish I was still in college.
I just wish, I just I wish I could just
like go to my ten am class and then just
like come back and just watch Star Wars and play
video games all day.

Speaker 5 (01:07:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
I love, I love my family and my children in
my career.

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
But man, you know it only keeps. You only keep getting.
Not everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
I just miss I miss college. You missed the time
you could watch Star Wars all day and then go
to the bar all night. You could do both.

Speaker 3 (01:07:55):
That's what I did, all right, guys. Thanks for listening.
May the Force be with you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
And always hold on to Star Wars in college.

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
Always hold on to Star Wars. It's a part of
the Always hold On to network. The podcast and brought
to you by listeners like you. For a full list
of patrons, listen to our flagship show, Always hold On Smallville,
Always hold On Star Wars. Theme music is by Landslaster
and our podcast art is by Matt Truix. You can
follow us on Twitter at always star Wars with one

(01:09:11):
middle Less, follow us on Instagram at May the Pod
be with You, and you can send us an email
at Mayepod be with You at gmail dot com. Thanks
for listening.