January 12, 2025 • 39 mins
Dr. Lanny Snodgrass completed basic training at the age of 63, perhaps a new record. He has wanted to serve in the military much earlier in life but a football injury made him ineligible. However, as a VA psychiatrist, he witnessed the trauma of Veterans and the desire to serve in uniform became more intense. When he was sixty a friend suggested he try to join up again. He signed the paperwork, passed the physical and took the oath. Two months later he received a phone call from Army headquarters saying he was too old. It took three more years before he was finally accepted. The US had just entered the Iraq war and psychiatrists were in short supply. Snodgrass says it is likely that had something to do with his eventual acceptance. He shares some of the challenges completing Officer’s basic training with a heart condition. But he knew he would never get another chance. One of the more shocking moments he relates was when one of the training officers declared to the class that he “Would NEVER send one of his soldiers to a psychiatrist.” His experience serving in the field with young soldiers led him to challenge conventional wisdom surrounding age norms in the military. Snodgrass shares these theories in his book “The Ageless Call to Serve – Rethinking Military Service for a Changing World.” While he supports the current enlistment age, he feels strongly that teenagers should allowed a period of maturation before being sent into combat. Snodgrass also makes a very compelling case for addressing the current recruiting challenges by allowing more mature individuals to serve. Today’s technologies mean there are many categories of service that do not require the physical stamina of younger adults. I love the idea that this flips the current blueprint on its head; persons can spend a career in the private sector developing advanced technical skills and education and THEN start a career in the military.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
We all owe them, but very few of us know them.
They are the men and women of our military and
first responder communities, and these are their stories. American Warrior
Radio is on the air.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Follow Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to American Warrior Radio. This
is Benguela Garcia. American Warrior Radio broadcasts from the Silencer
Central Studios, the nation's largest suppressor dealer. They're ready to
make your Silence for buying journey as simple and painfree
as possible. Call them today at eight sixty six six
four zero three two seven zero to get the process started,
(00:45):
or visit Slencercentral dot com. Be sure to check Silencercentral
dot com to confirm if one of a silencer is
legal in your state. I try to live my life
without regrets, but as one gets older, there's a tendency
to reflect back on life to one about past never taken.
How my life might have been different if I had
accepted that scholarship to Boston College rather than working my
(01:07):
way through school at the University of Arizona. What would
have been different in my life? What if I'd accepted
that law school offer, even if the school was not
on my list of preferred institutions. It has often crossed
my mind that perhaps I should have accepted that Air
Force recruiters pitch to become an engineer. Lord knows later
in life I could have used the discipline. But in
the wisdom that comes with seventeen whole years on the planet,
(01:28):
I wanted to be a fighter pilot or nothing. Sometimes
life gives you second chances, and today's guest gives me hope.
Lanny Snodgrass joined the Army at the age of sixty three.
For those who are keeping score at home, that's four
hundred and forty one dog years. It gave him a
second chance to fulfill one of his lifelong dreams, and
the course of experiences inspired him to rethink the age
(01:49):
limits we have placed on service to our nation. Landy's
military adventure and his interesting thoughts on how he might
address the current recruiting crisis are summarized in his book,
The Ageless Call to Serve, Rethinking military service for a
changing world. Welcome to American Warrior, Radio doctor Lanny Snodgrass,
Lieutenant Colonel retired. Lannie, you wanted to serve early in life,
(02:12):
but due to a football injury, you were deemed unfit
as I understand it.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yes, that's that's correct.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
It was kind of a meaningless event, and in that
it was a scrimmage. You know, I played that in games,
But have this happened in the scrimmage?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah? That was kind of unusual.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
And how did you this opportunity talked about, you know,
joining the military much much later in life. How did
you find out about this opportunity to maybe get a
second chance at serving our country? Well, at sixty, I
had a colleague of mine. He was a nurse that
had been in the Navy for several years, and he
(02:54):
talked to me about joining him. I said, really, I said,
at this age, sixty years old, I'm not sure you
know his name is Bobby. He said Bobby, I just
don't see how that's Oh yeah, you said, why don't
you go down se recruiter? Uh? Because you know that
this idea of joining the military had been something that
it's really sticking in my brain, a feeling that.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I was not.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I was a royal person, I wasn't complete And this
became much more intense, Uh, this feeling as I worked
with veterans and active duties. It listening to the sorrows,
listening to the the kind of trauma that they had
gone through, the PTSD symptoms, anxiety, depression, and some moral injuries.
(03:51):
Some of those have moral injury, they can spend the
rest of their life in a cerebral foxhole, but not
ever wearing the uniform on that That was that was
something that aid at me. I felt that as much
as I had spent as many years in treating these
(04:13):
service members, that I owed it. I owed it to
them or to myself. And so that kind of discomfort
chased me through most of my career. And so age
sixty three, there we are. It was sixty of course
when I did go to the recruiter and he said, oh, yeah,
you can join. Sure, So he had me signed all
(04:36):
these papers and scheduled the physical exam. I passed the
physical exam. Uh, and then I did the swear in
and I get a call from the headquarters in Saint Louis.
They say, you can't join. You know, you meant the
maximum age for retirement. I said, yeah, but I just
I just took the oath two months ago. Your recruiter
(04:58):
made mistake, so it this is quite a long time
between then and the time the military said, okay, you
can join. We're talking over three years. During those three years,
I developed, unfortunately a heart condition where I had skip beats.
It's known as six signed as syndrome. It's a situation
(05:19):
where it was so bothersome because the skip beats were
currying about three and a half seconds, three three point
two five seconds. It kept me awake at night try
and make up for the skid beats. My left entricle
has tried to feel like it's coming out of my
chest practically. So I need the pacemaker and sent my
(05:41):
medical records in to headquarters and they said, now we
need to down at Fort Sam. You know, if I
get a pacemaker, you can't serve well the aage lifespan
of somebody in my condition. Not getting this corrected with
the pacemakers about five years. But I wanted to join
(06:02):
in the military so bad. I was willing to risk
risk it all and.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Do it, so I did.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
That's quite a story. Now, was there something about what
our nation was going through at the time a doctor,
that I mean, were your services as a psychologist? Were
they in high demand? And so as a psychiatrist at
that Yeah, I think that. You know, at that time,
we just had entered the war with Iraq and activated
(06:35):
one hundred and thirty thousand ART troops to be sent
over to Iraq. So not to mention all the collateral
troops from allies, but I think that had this event
not occurred with the war, I don't think there'd be
a chance that I would have had my age waived
(06:57):
and gone in. Yes, psychiatrists were very scarce at that time.
It was a scarce spatialty in the military. In fact,
in my company, which originally was about three hundred and fifty,
there were only two with my mos at sixty one
sixty one Whiskey SIXU one Whiskey is psychiatrists. All the
(07:19):
mos have different no encluture, different acrodys. So they were
they were, they were desperate to have have my spatialty,
and and so I got past.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
The fact that that the road not taken may reappear
in the in the future in one's life signifies the
person has the ability to stay hopeful and to to persevere.
What are you doing? Not have any idea? Are you
(07:55):
the oldest to ever enlist or what's the record for that.
I've been told I have been told that I'm the
oldest to ever join, to ever join, be commissioned and
do basic. Yes, okay, that's quite a story. I'll tell
you what, sir, when we come back, I want to
talk about I said.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Hey, you give me hope.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I'm right about that same time window in my life here.
Although I'm not as good as shape as you probably
so I don't know if I could pass the physical
but it does give me hope. But when we come back,
want to talk about just some of the practical realities,
because you still had to go through through basic, and
like you said, you had this heart issue which could
(08:36):
complicate things a little bit. And it's just really, really
an interesting story, folks. I encourage you to get the book.
It's called The Ageless Call to Serve rethinking Military service
for a Changing World. Doctor Snodgrass's experience serving in the
military and being deployed and being right there, literally on
the front lines of this issue is really created some
(08:56):
very interesting observations that I think all of us who
support the military and who are in government really should
think about about what is appropriate and you know, what
time we recruit these young people and what we can
do to support them as they go through their service.
Ladies and gentlemen, there's your host, Ben Bla Garcia. Don't
forget you can visit American Warrior Radio dot com. We've
(09:20):
got over six hundred podcasts available there. The most current
podcast can also be found on your favorite platform, Apple, iTunes, Spotify,
Pandora where they're everywhere. And if you have a story
to tell, please reach out and contact us BBG at
American Warrior Radio dot com. We'd love to share your
story with our listeners. Once again, does your host Ben
(09:40):
Bula Garcia. We'll be back with more with doctor Larry
Snodgrass in just a few seconds. Welcome back to American
(10:13):
Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, there's your host, Ben Biler Garcia.
We're talking with doctor Larry Snodgrass, also Lieutenant Colonel Larry
snod Grass. He joined the military at the age of
sixty three. And doctor, I'm just curious, So forgive my ignorance.
I'm just a dumb civilian. But when you joined, is
the basic training for the medical officers different than your
(10:37):
average infantry men or did you have to go through
the same thing. Well, it's an accelerated version. Okay, so
the big officers basic training is really two weeks. But
it it incorporates a lot of what the big infantry
the fellas would occur in. They're basic training as well.
(11:03):
Except being in the medical Corps, there were there were
things about the training that were specific to the medical core.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
You we still had to no weapons, know how to
clean your sixteen and how to fire your your in
nine and all of that. But uh, there were there
were there were things for example, that that tasks that
you had to carry a litter at the litter carrier exercise.
(11:32):
Then I was through four obstacles and through various cross
bridges and so forth, and there was it was time.
You had to do all that fifteen minutes, all the
four you know. I I think I fell flat on
my face the end of the at the end of
the fourth course of this. And and then you have
the exercise probably under the bob wire. You have one
(11:54):
hundred and fifty pound madikan you're pulling under the bob wire,
you know, have the bullets flying over and and and
getting this madeq in over a six foot wall. It's
the big ordeal. I remember the sergeant, you know, he
he said to me, he said, oh, I said Snodgrass.
He said, when I saw you, he said, I thought
(12:14):
of my dad. It was very sad. Well, you know
you had, you know, essentially pushed me in the butt
to get me over the or over that sixth wall,
that six foot wall. It was. It was a there
I tell you, there's years are line in your book
where you talked about one of the I guess one
(12:36):
of the captains in basic training who pretty much straight
up said, you know, I've got I've got no use
for you all exactly, I'll send exactly none of my
soldiers to see a psychiatrist. That's a heck of a
how do you do? That?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Was very very shocking to me.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Is I As I was sitting there in the class
and he was hittering those words, I just couldn't believe
what I was hearing. U. After all, he's addressing the
medical core. You know, this is not the infantry, it's
a medical core. And I got, is this really somebody
that really believes this? I mean what I guess there
(13:16):
are you know, certain individuals that are in charge of
companies that maybe don't have much use for chetry or
it psychology or mental health for that matter of fact,
and look at it in a rather ignorant way and
very unsophisticated, not not thinking about what's going on in
(13:39):
the thoughts and emotions and behavior equation, which is so important.
But I think we've come along and with with some
improvement in that process. I feel we have. You know,
stigma has always been a real problem in the military
when it comes to referring to people from mental health.
We called it behavioral health, and the idea of somebody
(14:04):
having to go and visit with a counselor or a
psychiatrist was kind of a red tick on their file,
on their profile, and it was something that they avoided.
But I think as we have seen more of the
psychological effects and the tragedy of these casualties, I feel
(14:25):
that the Upper Exceellon has had more understanding of the
mental health process and how important it is to really
treat the problem early, not late, but early. It's not
perfect now, but we're moving in the right direction. Yeah.
And I've heard that from from several both active duty
(14:47):
people and have folks that are recently out that there
has been both in the military and the first responder community,
it's now not a not so much of a you know,
black mark on your file to actually ask for help.
And so I'm curious that, like you that that comment
by that captain shocked me. But what about your fellow
comrades who are going through basic with you? Did they
(15:08):
were they supportive of you? Did they just like, now,
this guy's kind of an odd duck, I'm going to
stay out of his way. Or how was that going?
Being such a senior age, I was not included. I
didn't feel I was included as much as the old,
good old boys free to court. Many of these individuals
(15:30):
who were in this company had already had prior military experience,
and so I was as green as can be. And
my battle buddy, I mean, she was less than half
my age. Now she's what thirty two and I'm sixty three,
and we only it was only by default that we
(15:51):
matched up. Everybody in the squad had chosen some battlebuddy
in except for me and her. But you know, as
as things progressed, I think that there was some appreciation.
There was some appreciation for what I could contribute as
a person who had experienced as a doctor, as as
(16:12):
a physicians, as a psychiatrist, and they and so I
had Some of some of these officers are coming to
me and asking me questions about what to do in
certain situations, in certain relationships, and that was that was
really at the end of the train, however, But but
(16:34):
that did occur. And so I think that what I
found was, you know, at sixty years old, sixty three,
you know, you may you may be able to do
a considerable amount of good and and help those that
really need mental help, intervention and treatment. You may not
(16:57):
be able to run the mile line the deer, and
you may not be able to do all those pulls hips,
but that's that's not the important thing. The important thing
is being able to use your skills and your experience
and help help them heal, help those that need healing
(17:18):
to enter the process and make some improvement in their life. Well,
I tell you, sir, later on in your book you
kind of going off that that tangent there, you you
make a very compelling argument, you know, in that vein
as far as you know, particularly given you know, war
has always been horrible, but but with some of the
(17:39):
new technologies we've gotten now you're you're right. I think
there's people I agree with you, there's people who could
bring a real, a real advantage to our military but
they don't necessarily have to be in a position to
pull that one hundred and fifty pound dummy through you know,
barbed wire and throw it over over a wall. And
we you know, talk about you know, unmanned drawings and
(18:00):
just all kinds of other things. So when we come back,
so I'd like to touch on that and spend the
rest of the show talking about your your observations and
your theories that I think are very compelling. And then
also I just want to talk a little bit about
just you know, you getting through basic. There was one
situation where you finally, you know, did get to get
(18:22):
to the er. I guess literally and your blood pressure
was two twenty over one away. And I'm not a physician,
but that's pretty pretty scary and pretty bad, but you
did make it through. Ladies and gentlemen, there is your host,
Ben Bula Garcia. We're talking with doctor Landy Snodgrass, whose
are also retired lieutenant colonel in the Army great book,
it's called The Ageless Call to Serve, rethinking the military
(18:43):
service for a changing world. When we come back, we'll
talk more about doctor Snodgrass's ideas and opinions, and I
think you can to find it quite fascinating. Once again,
Ben Bula Garcia at your host.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Welcome back to America Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen. This
is Ben Jula Garcia. We're coming to you from the
Silence of Central Studios. Adding a silence will make shootings
safer and more enjoyable and improve your accuracy. Begin the
process by visiting Silencercentral dot com to see if owning
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walk you through the permitting process and ship right to
your front door. Call Silencer Central today at eight sixty
(19:32):
six six four zero three two seven zero, or visit
silencercentral dot com. We're talking with doctor Lanny Snodgrass. Doctor
Sadgress is also retired lieutenant colonel, but not in the
way that you would expect. He did not join up
at the ripe age of eighteen and then proceed through
a career. He actually joined at the age of sixty three,
which we think he might be the oldest person to
(19:53):
ever do so. Doctor, Before we get into some of
the other ideas you present in your book here, which
I think are absolutely fascinating, I don't want to get
away so much you had physically, you just had some
real challenges and basic training and well, let's just say
the medics were not not as supportive as I would
hope they would be. I mean, you were, you were
(20:15):
in pretty bad shape a couple of times. Well what
happened at the start of the PT Uh the temperature
dropped down to seventeen you know, the sport's say. You know,
it's kind of unusual because when I arrived it was
you know, fifties, maybe it was high as sixty, and
then everyone was ordered to strip down to your shorts. Well,
(20:39):
I from that developed some bronchitis. H so as fighting
that and in addition to my my heart condition and
skiff beats and so forth. Uh, I was really pushing
pushing gravity for a while, and it was it was difficult.
It really was very difficult. Yeah, they thought they thought
(21:01):
they were losing you there. At one time, motor broke picture.
We went into this real crisis of uh just uh,
you know, shaking and out cracery all that up. So
you know, it was it was touch and go for
a while. But you know, resilience, you know, I was
(21:24):
I was determined to make this work. I really was
I knew this was the one shot time I would
never get this opportunity again, and uh, I wanted to
succeed sir. One of the things I found really compelling
in your book is in the art. Now, keep in
mind our listeners need to know that you had years
(21:44):
of experience working at the VA treating uh, you know,
veterans with with the psychiatric issues, and so you you
definitely came in there. I want to say, you know,
basic training, which is sort of a necessary thing for
you to go through, but you brought a lot of
a wealth experience with you already. You know, for example
that the all alfen here. Okay, I'm eighteen years old.
(22:05):
I can't buy a beer or a gun, but you
know I can be shipped off to a foreign land
to to shoot and blow things up and you're you're
the expert. So there's there's the development of the frontal
cortex if I get that phrase right, free funnel.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Yeah, preful cortex when.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
When in most most people, most young people, when is
that fully developed and fully formed at what age?
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Around age twenty five?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
So you know this this function is pretty important. Has
to do with impulsivity and with the executive decisions, and
and and time before reaction, time before taking action, so
your thought process is much shorter, or somebody that has
(22:54):
other develop your federal cortex to think before he acts. Now,
of course it'll eighteen nineteen year olds one year olds.
I mean, the recruiters love get these guys recruited. They have,
for example, the virtual vitality.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
They have this.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Sense of fearlessness, fearlessness and then naivety. It all goes
together so that, for example, if they're in a combat
zone and the company commanders tells them what the outcome
could be, it can be completely annihilated. They'll carry out
(23:34):
their order anyway. So is this a moral issue? Should
we think about it? Should we consider some real serious
discussion debate?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
I think so.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I don't oppose teenagers going into military. I think it's
an honorable thing to do with. I oppose them going
near to the combat zone the many other things they
can do. So again, I'm not an expert, but to me,
the physical aspects of that young person are not going
to change very much between eighteen and twenty five. In fact,
they might even get a little bit better. But they're
not you know, they're not going to be like me,
(24:06):
you know, puffing for breath after walking, you know, ten
paces up up some stairs, so that that that would
be okay. So what what would you propose or if
would it be sort of a maybe a transitionary period
for their first six seven years after joining the military
(24:27):
before they actually see combat and what are the practical
ramifications of that in our current recruiting system. I don't
know if there's any magical age, but I do feel that,
you know, teenagers should not be allowed in in a
war zone, if you know. I like what you said
(24:49):
about transition, because I think that that's that's an important issue.
I would I would say, you know, nobody under twenty one.
That that's why I field at least to give to
give them some opportunity for maturation. So then the numbers,
(25:12):
of course the problem. I guess, can you get enough
you know, soldiers, service members in able to fight a
war with that in mind, that criteria in mind. I
think that as we see so many changes occurring in
the world and technology is changing constantly, I think the
(25:35):
military does need to take that in consideration and think
about who we sent into a combat zone and who
we allow to join the military. I feel that drone
warfare certainly is here to stay. I don't don't think
there's any question about that.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Of course.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
You know, you take a nineteen year old that's sitting
in a in a train, there's some word in Colorado,
and he launches a drone attack over in Middle East
to a animey target, and he might be as susceptible
to develop PTSD as somebody who is on the ground
in combat. I tell you what, sir, I've had other
folks on the show who because people I think have
(26:19):
that common misconception. I'm sitting in the trailer in Nevada.
It's air conditioned, I got a sandwich there, and it's
not as traumatic. But I had a drone operator tell me,
actually it's more traumatic than because he had also flown
combat in Vietnam. He was another person of advanced days.
Let's say when he was serving. He says, look, in Vietnam,
(26:41):
I drop bombs everywhere, but I did it from ten
thousand feet twenty thousand feet. I never actually saw the
impacts of what was happening on the ground. But as
a drone operator, I might be actually tracking this individual
for days, for weeks. I'm getting to know them and
then I'm the one that pulls the trigger and sends
this munition down on his head. So it's actually he said,
(27:03):
it's it's it's more traumatic, or it can be more traumatic.
Is there coming back to the prefrontal cort extit I mean?
Is that I assume that varies in different individuals. It's
not a hard and fast line of twenty five for everyone.
I mean there are some young people that have matured
quicker than others and probably could handle this situation.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yes, that is that is correct. It's not a hard
and fast but it's it's it's a general rule. Is
there is there a test or is there an evaluation
that we could do to say, okay, yeah, you're good
to go, here's your rifle versus you know what, We're
going to put you in more technical training for several years,
get to know the customs, traditions of the military, and
develop your your non combat expertise until you're ready to
(27:49):
actually go to a combat zone. Or is that that
I'm complicating things to mind? Well, there's there's as a
whole array of battery, psychological testing, battery. It's it's tremendous
what we have now. It's available but unfortunately we don't
use that in selecting them to recruit, to recruit them. Uh,
(28:11):
the recruiter, you know, all is pressured into cite it up.
You know, three of these high school graduates a lot
to keep his own promotion going. Uh. But I think
that psychological testing would be helpful, and not just for
those recruiting, but for those that we consider sitting into
(28:32):
a combat zone. Yes, okay, I tell you what, doctor,
and we come back. I want to follow up more
on that they're tirled by ageless calls to serve and
talk about how age should no longer be a limiting
factor in recruiting members men and women into our military.
Ladies and gentlemen, Ben Viuda Guarciale, We're back with more
with doctor Lammy Stoddrass in just a few seconds. Stick around,
(29:10):
Welcome back to American Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen. This
is your host, Ben buler Garcia. We're talking with doctor
Lanny Snodgrass. Doctor Snodgrass may have been the oldest person
in our history to ever join well, no matter history,
but Inton's recent memory. To join the military. He graduated,
went through basic training at the age of sixty three,
he's a psychiatrist by training and by a profession, I
(29:32):
tell you doctor as a business person. One of the
thing that really jumped out of me as a compelling
supporting argument for your case is basically the benefits of
older recruits, because, like in your case, you already came
in with very advanced technical skills. And you talk about
you know, as folks get older and stuff, they've developed
foreign language, they've already got leadership, discipline. There's all this
(29:55):
stuff that we might be spending on training younger people,
when if you recruit someone thirty five, forty five, fifty
years old, they've already got that learned experience and they're
bringing it with them. I mean, they've got that resume,
and that's that could save us a ton of money. Well,
all we have to do is look at the spear bed.
You might say that it's been done with the VA,
(30:16):
and the VA has learned that by hiring these doctors
that have gone into retirement and then wanted to come
out of retirement to practice, that the fields more manageable
and give them their skills to work for the government
and treat these veterans was a big plus. It was
(30:37):
it was a it was just masterful because they have
all of this experience and skills and with sharp minds,
and they have been a wonderful resource. Why can't the
military look at this and say, hey, we could you know,
we could recruit from this same pool senior doctors that
(31:01):
have spatialties in many areas that we all need that
are very critical and we want to have any problem
for shortages. And with the advancement of tallemedicine, just think
of how that would play into this and make it
very feasible and practical for some doctor to actually, you know,
you read X rays from his home, or he could
(31:24):
conduct consultations from his health through the telemedicine technology. You know,
it's interesting sort of thinking about that. I mean, I
know a lot of people that you know, joined at eighteen,
did their twenty years, you know, they got out of
the military, they're getting their patient and they start a
second career in the private sector. Hearing you speak, I
can almost see you flipping that on its head. I
(31:48):
go into a computer or medicine or something like that,
I practice for twenty years, get my retirement there, and
then join the military as my second career. Absolutely, I
just think that you know, archaic, arbitrary rules have not
been really examined, debated and discussed, and I think it's time,
(32:12):
it's really time for the military to take a real
closer look at this and say, hey, you know, times
have changed and people are getting older. They are they're
they're still functional, and they're the lifespan is increasing, and
we need to take advantage of this tremendous.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Resources out there.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
You know, you also mentioned a very practical I hadn't
bought this before, but if we're talking about someone who's
you know, a little further on in life and the
military is their second career, their savings there and you know,
like in your case, you pretty much had achieved the
level of expertise and training that you were going to
achieve before you even went in, so you didn't need
(32:57):
the GI bill. You know, a lot of these folks
have already you know, they've got a home, and if
you could arrange for them to serve someplace where they've
already got their home, you know, you can eliminate that
that housing alliance allowance. And you know, the lecture again
coming back to just the huge amount of money we
invest in training outlays and that problem is solved or mitigated. Well,
(33:19):
that that's true housing allowance. You know, it'd be something
that there would be noximoron for many of the physicians
that they don't need another place to another office. They
we have the zoom, we have all of the technology
for being able to communicate through this telemedicine technology that
(33:41):
that that has been I mean it is exploded. Really
during pandemic is when all this really started to come
to the Ford and it has just continued on from that.
We have seen the value of it. We've seen how
practical it is. It has enabled a whole number of
people and other not just physicians, but in other professions
(34:04):
as well, engineering, law, business, to be able to manage
their skills and their expertise through this technological advancement.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
It is. It's marvelous.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
You're the expert. I'm not one thing that comes to mind.
I brought this up with a senior enlisted leader at
my local base here and the concept, and you know,
he nodded and he got understood a lot of the
practical aspects of your argument. But then he pauses, said,
you know one thing about that though, when it comes
(34:42):
to combat, we really depend on those eighteen year olds
who are impulsive, who are fearless. You know, you take
a thirty year old and say, okay, you got to
take pork shop Hill, they might pause to think about
it a little bit longer. And so in effect, he
was looking at both size the coin. He felt that,
you know, to some extent, younger people are an essential
(35:04):
part of war. What are your thoughts on that? Well,
I think as we find out more of the psychological
tragedies of war on these young people, it's very sobery
and I think we need to take another point of view.
If you take someone that's under twenty five and put
(35:25):
them into a combat zone, they have more than twice
the risk of developing PTSD than somebody twenty five or over.
That's what the studies show. And you know, looking at
what the tragedy has been with these war look at Vietnam.
(35:46):
You had what the average aides of a trigger polar
in generes of Vietnam was eighteen nineteen. They came back
in thirty percent of them had post traumatic stress disorder.
Twenty years later fifteen fifteen percent. And those guys are
going to live with that forever. I think we got
to stop and think, you know, at what point do
(36:08):
we say the threshold did not send someone such a
risk into combat? So I try to so you make
some very compelling arguments, and I really appreciate it. We're
down to just about three minutes here planning anything else
you'd like to add for us. I really hope that
(36:28):
somehow people who read the book will find an inspiration
to think about what we're what we've been doing for
over a century, and age limits in the military has
never been a serious discussing and I generate some kind
of aggression. Why. I think you're spot on, and frankly,
(36:51):
right now there's no better time to do it, as
the recruiters are out there really struggling to meet their goals.
I mean, you're really identifying just a huge, which untap
potential recruitment pool for our military by by expanding the
age or or attorney it on its head and just
having an open more of an open mind when it
comes comes to recruiting and the type of I mean,
(37:13):
I could even see, maybe I don't know, some kind
of a commission or something would say, okay, here's there's
now two distinct paths. This is the path for our
older more experienced people, and this you know, we're gonna
we're not so much gonna worry about you failing out
of basic training because we know that you'll be doing
things a little bit differently. The other concern I have, doctor,
is war has changed so much now there's really not
(37:36):
a lot of rare echelon. I've spoken to you know,
hum the mechanics who engaged in firefights, so that that's
something else to consider. But on the whole, I really
enjoyed your book. I found it very compelling and I
appreciate you spending some time with our listeners shirt today. Doctor.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
It's a pleasure and it's an order to be interviewed here.
Thank you very good. You take care of yourself, ladies
and gentlemen. The book again is called the AST's called
The Serve Rethinking Military Service for a Changing World. You
just heard from doctor Lanny Snodgrass. He joined the military
at the age of sixty three. He's a psychiatrist by training,
and he just has got a lot of very very
(38:12):
interesting ideas that he presented the book. And I encourage
you civilian or military, and by all means, if you're
a recruiter or maybe even a policymaker back in Washington
to crack this book and just examine some of the
doctor Snodgrass's proposals. I think there's some very compelling arguments
in there for how we can maybe do things a
little bit differently in our country, and of course also
helps address just the scourge of PTSD and veteran suicide,
(38:36):
the impacts that the horrors of war, and as doctor
Stongrass mentioned as well, that the moral injuries are creating
among our young people and the death that we owe
to them to help avoid that and to take care
of them and help prevent those things from happening. Just
a really really compelling argument. Don't forget. You can find
this podcast and over six hundred others at American Warrior
(38:59):
Radio dot com. Most current podcasts are on your favorite
streaming platform, whatever it might be. And if you have
an idea or suggestion for us going into the new
year of guests that might be appropriate for American Warrior Radio.
Our mission is tell the stories of those who protect
us at home and abroad. Millet members of our military
first responder community. Until next time, ladies and gentlemen, it's
(39:20):
been a pleasure having you here. With us in twenty
twenty four. We'll see you again next year right here
in americawarriorradio dot com. Until next time, how polishes and
procedures are in remaining place, Take.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Care of yourselves.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
You've been listening to American Warrior Radio. Archived episodes may
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platform
We all owe them, but very few of us know them.
They are the men and women of our military and
first responder communities, and these are their stories. American Warrior
Radio is on the air.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Follow Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to American Warrior Radio. This
is Benguela Garcia. American Warrior Radio broadcasts from the Silencer
Central Studios, the nation's largest suppressor dealer. They're ready to
make your Silence for buying journey as simple and painfree
as possible. Call them today at eight sixty six six
four zero three two seven zero to get the process started,
(00:45):
or visit Slencercentral dot com. Be sure to check Silencercentral
dot com to confirm if one of a silencer is
legal in your state. I try to live my life
without regrets, but as one gets older, there's a tendency
to reflect back on life to one about past never taken.
How my life might have been different if I had
accepted that scholarship to Boston College rather than working my
(01:07):
way through school at the University of Arizona. What would
have been different in my life? What if I'd accepted
that law school offer, even if the school was not
on my list of preferred institutions. It has often crossed
my mind that perhaps I should have accepted that Air
Force recruiters pitch to become an engineer. Lord knows later
in life I could have used the discipline. But in
the wisdom that comes with seventeen whole years on the planet,
(01:28):
I wanted to be a fighter pilot or nothing. Sometimes
life gives you second chances, and today's guest gives me hope.
Lanny Snodgrass joined the Army at the age of sixty three.
For those who are keeping score at home, that's four
hundred and forty one dog years. It gave him a
second chance to fulfill one of his lifelong dreams, and
the course of experiences inspired him to rethink the age
(01:49):
limits we have placed on service to our nation. Landy's
military adventure and his interesting thoughts on how he might
address the current recruiting crisis are summarized in his book,
The Ageless Call to Serve, Rethinking military service for a
changing world. Welcome to American Warrior, Radio doctor Lanny Snodgrass,
Lieutenant Colonel retired. Lannie, you wanted to serve early in life,
(02:12):
but due to a football injury, you were deemed unfit
as I understand it.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yes, that's that's correct.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
It was kind of a meaningless event, and in that
it was a scrimmage. You know, I played that in games,
But have this happened in the scrimmage?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah? That was kind of unusual.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
And how did you this opportunity talked about, you know,
joining the military much much later in life. How did
you find out about this opportunity to maybe get a
second chance at serving our country? Well, at sixty, I
had a colleague of mine. He was a nurse that
had been in the Navy for several years, and he
(02:54):
talked to me about joining him. I said, really, I said,
at this age, sixty years old, I'm not sure you
know his name is Bobby. He said Bobby, I just
don't see how that's Oh yeah, you said, why don't
you go down se recruiter? Uh? Because you know that
this idea of joining the military had been something that
it's really sticking in my brain, a feeling that.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I was not.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I was a royal person, I wasn't complete And this
became much more intense, Uh, this feeling as I worked
with veterans and active duties. It listening to the sorrows,
listening to the the kind of trauma that they had
gone through, the PTSD symptoms, anxiety, depression, and some moral injuries.
(03:51):
Some of those have moral injury, they can spend the
rest of their life in a cerebral foxhole, but not
ever wearing the uniform on that That was that was
something that aid at me. I felt that as much
as I had spent as many years in treating these
(04:13):
service members, that I owed it. I owed it to
them or to myself. And so that kind of discomfort
chased me through most of my career. And so age
sixty three, there we are. It was sixty of course
when I did go to the recruiter and he said, oh, yeah,
you can join. Sure, So he had me signed all
(04:36):
these papers and scheduled the physical exam. I passed the
physical exam. Uh, and then I did the swear in
and I get a call from the headquarters in Saint Louis.
They say, you can't join. You know, you meant the
maximum age for retirement. I said, yeah, but I just
I just took the oath two months ago. Your recruiter
(04:58):
made mistake, so it this is quite a long time
between then and the time the military said, okay, you
can join. We're talking over three years. During those three years,
I developed, unfortunately a heart condition where I had skip beats.
It's known as six signed as syndrome. It's a situation
(05:19):
where it was so bothersome because the skip beats were
currying about three and a half seconds, three three point
two five seconds. It kept me awake at night try
and make up for the skid beats. My left entricle
has tried to feel like it's coming out of my
chest practically. So I need the pacemaker and sent my
(05:41):
medical records in to headquarters and they said, now we
need to down at Fort Sam. You know, if I
get a pacemaker, you can't serve well the aage lifespan
of somebody in my condition. Not getting this corrected with
the pacemakers about five years. But I wanted to join
(06:02):
in the military so bad. I was willing to risk
risk it all and.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Do it, so I did.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
That's quite a story. Now, was there something about what
our nation was going through at the time a doctor,
that I mean, were your services as a psychologist? Were
they in high demand? And so as a psychiatrist at
that Yeah, I think that. You know, at that time,
we just had entered the war with Iraq and activated
(06:35):
one hundred and thirty thousand ART troops to be sent
over to Iraq. So not to mention all the collateral
troops from allies, but I think that had this event
not occurred with the war, I don't think there'd be
a chance that I would have had my age waived
(06:57):
and gone in. Yes, psychiatrists were very scarce at that time.
It was a scarce spatialty in the military. In fact,
in my company, which originally was about three hundred and fifty,
there were only two with my mos at sixty one
sixty one Whiskey SIXU one Whiskey is psychiatrists. All the
(07:19):
mos have different no encluture, different acrodys. So they were
they were, they were desperate to have have my spatialty,
and and so I got past.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
The fact that that the road not taken may reappear
in the in the future in one's life signifies the
person has the ability to stay hopeful and to to persevere.
What are you doing? Not have any idea? Are you
(07:55):
the oldest to ever enlist or what's the record for that.
I've been told I have been told that I'm the
oldest to ever join, to ever join, be commissioned and
do basic. Yes, okay, that's quite a story. I'll tell
you what, sir, when we come back, I want to
talk about I said.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Hey, you give me hope.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I'm right about that same time window in my life here.
Although I'm not as good as shape as you probably
so I don't know if I could pass the physical
but it does give me hope. But when we come back,
want to talk about just some of the practical realities,
because you still had to go through through basic, and
like you said, you had this heart issue which could
(08:36):
complicate things a little bit. And it's just really, really
an interesting story, folks. I encourage you to get the book.
It's called The Ageless Call to Serve rethinking Military service
for a Changing World. Doctor Snodgrass's experience serving in the
military and being deployed and being right there, literally on
the front lines of this issue is really created some
(08:56):
very interesting observations that I think all of us who
support the military and who are in government really should
think about about what is appropriate and you know, what
time we recruit these young people and what we can
do to support them as they go through their service.
Ladies and gentlemen, there's your host, Ben Bla Garcia. Don't
forget you can visit American Warrior Radio dot com. We've
(09:20):
got over six hundred podcasts available there. The most current
podcast can also be found on your favorite platform, Apple, iTunes, Spotify,
Pandora where they're everywhere. And if you have a story
to tell, please reach out and contact us BBG at
American Warrior Radio dot com. We'd love to share your
story with our listeners. Once again, does your host Ben
(09:40):
Bula Garcia. We'll be back with more with doctor Larry
Snodgrass in just a few seconds. Welcome back to American
(10:13):
Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, there's your host, Ben Biler Garcia.
We're talking with doctor Larry Snodgrass, also Lieutenant Colonel Larry
snod Grass. He joined the military at the age of
sixty three. And doctor, I'm just curious, So forgive my ignorance.
I'm just a dumb civilian. But when you joined, is
the basic training for the medical officers different than your
(10:37):
average infantry men or did you have to go through
the same thing. Well, it's an accelerated version. Okay, so
the big officers basic training is really two weeks. But
it it incorporates a lot of what the big infantry
the fellas would occur in. They're basic training as well.
(11:03):
Except being in the medical Corps, there were there were
things about the training that were specific to the medical core.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
You we still had to no weapons, know how to
clean your sixteen and how to fire your your in
nine and all of that. But uh, there were there
were there were things for example, that that tasks that
you had to carry a litter at the litter carrier exercise.
(11:32):
Then I was through four obstacles and through various cross
bridges and so forth, and there was it was time.
You had to do all that fifteen minutes, all the
four you know. I I think I fell flat on
my face the end of the at the end of
the fourth course of this. And and then you have
the exercise probably under the bob wire. You have one
(11:54):
hundred and fifty pound madikan you're pulling under the bob wire,
you know, have the bullets flying over and and and
getting this madeq in over a six foot wall. It's
the big ordeal. I remember the sergeant, you know, he
he said to me, he said, oh, I said Snodgrass.
He said, when I saw you, he said, I thought
(12:14):
of my dad. It was very sad. Well, you know
you had, you know, essentially pushed me in the butt
to get me over the or over that sixth wall,
that six foot wall. It was. It was a there
I tell you, there's years are line in your book
where you talked about one of the I guess one
(12:36):
of the captains in basic training who pretty much straight
up said, you know, I've got I've got no use
for you all exactly, I'll send exactly none of my
soldiers to see a psychiatrist. That's a heck of a
how do you do? That?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Was very very shocking to me.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Is I As I was sitting there in the class
and he was hittering those words, I just couldn't believe
what I was hearing. U. After all, he's addressing the
medical core. You know, this is not the infantry, it's
a medical core. And I got, is this really somebody
that really believes this? I mean what I guess there
(13:16):
are you know, certain individuals that are in charge of
companies that maybe don't have much use for chetry or
it psychology or mental health for that matter of fact,
and look at it in a rather ignorant way and
very unsophisticated, not not thinking about what's going on in
(13:39):
the thoughts and emotions and behavior equation, which is so important.
But I think we've come along and with with some
improvement in that process. I feel we have. You know,
stigma has always been a real problem in the military
when it comes to referring to people from mental health.
We called it behavioral health, and the idea of somebody
(14:04):
having to go and visit with a counselor or a
psychiatrist was kind of a red tick on their file,
on their profile, and it was something that they avoided.
But I think as we have seen more of the
psychological effects and the tragedy of these casualties, I feel
(14:25):
that the Upper Exceellon has had more understanding of the
mental health process and how important it is to really
treat the problem early, not late, but early. It's not
perfect now, but we're moving in the right direction. Yeah.
And I've heard that from from several both active duty
(14:47):
people and have folks that are recently out that there
has been both in the military and the first responder community,
it's now not a not so much of a you know,
black mark on your file to actually ask for help.
And so I'm curious that, like you that that comment
by that captain shocked me. But what about your fellow
comrades who are going through basic with you? Did they
(15:08):
were they supportive of you? Did they just like, now,
this guy's kind of an odd duck, I'm going to
stay out of his way. Or how was that going?
Being such a senior age, I was not included. I
didn't feel I was included as much as the old,
good old boys free to court. Many of these individuals
(15:30):
who were in this company had already had prior military experience,
and so I was as green as can be. And
my battle buddy, I mean, she was less than half
my age. Now she's what thirty two and I'm sixty three,
and we only it was only by default that we
(15:51):
matched up. Everybody in the squad had chosen some battlebuddy
in except for me and her. But you know, as
as things progressed, I think that there was some appreciation.
There was some appreciation for what I could contribute as
a person who had experienced as a doctor, as as
(16:12):
a physicians, as a psychiatrist, and they and so I
had Some of some of these officers are coming to
me and asking me questions about what to do in
certain situations, in certain relationships, and that was that was
really at the end of the train, however, But but
(16:34):
that did occur. And so I think that what I
found was, you know, at sixty years old, sixty three,
you know, you may you may be able to do
a considerable amount of good and and help those that
really need mental help, intervention and treatment. You may not
(16:57):
be able to run the mile line the deer, and
you may not be able to do all those pulls hips,
but that's that's not the important thing. The important thing
is being able to use your skills and your experience
and help help them heal, help those that need healing
(17:18):
to enter the process and make some improvement in their life. Well,
I tell you, sir, later on in your book you
kind of going off that that tangent there, you you
make a very compelling argument, you know, in that vein
as far as you know, particularly given you know, war
has always been horrible, but but with some of the
(17:39):
new technologies we've gotten now you're you're right. I think
there's people I agree with you, there's people who could
bring a real, a real advantage to our military but
they don't necessarily have to be in a position to
pull that one hundred and fifty pound dummy through you know,
barbed wire and throw it over over a wall. And
we you know, talk about you know, unmanned drawings and
(18:00):
just all kinds of other things. So when we come back,
so I'd like to touch on that and spend the
rest of the show talking about your your observations and
your theories that I think are very compelling. And then
also I just want to talk a little bit about
just you know, you getting through basic. There was one
situation where you finally, you know, did get to get
(18:22):
to the er. I guess literally and your blood pressure
was two twenty over one away. And I'm not a physician,
but that's pretty pretty scary and pretty bad, but you
did make it through. Ladies and gentlemen, there is your host,
Ben Bula Garcia. We're talking with doctor Landy Snodgrass, whose
are also retired lieutenant colonel in the Army great book,
it's called The Ageless Call to Serve, rethinking the military
(18:43):
service for a changing world. When we come back, we'll
talk more about doctor Snodgrass's ideas and opinions, and I
think you can to find it quite fascinating. Once again,
Ben Bula Garcia at your host.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Welcome back to America Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen. This
is Ben Jula Garcia. We're coming to you from the
Silence of Central Studios. Adding a silence will make shootings
safer and more enjoyable and improve your accuracy. Begin the
process by visiting Silencercentral dot com to see if owning
a silencer is legal in your state. They can then
walk you through the permitting process and ship right to
your front door. Call Silencer Central today at eight sixty
(19:32):
six six four zero three two seven zero, or visit
silencercentral dot com. We're talking with doctor Lanny Snodgrass. Doctor
Sadgress is also retired lieutenant colonel, but not in the
way that you would expect. He did not join up
at the ripe age of eighteen and then proceed through
a career. He actually joined at the age of sixty three,
which we think he might be the oldest person to
(19:53):
ever do so. Doctor, Before we get into some of
the other ideas you present in your book here, which
I think are absolutely fascinating, I don't want to get
away so much you had physically, you just had some
real challenges and basic training and well, let's just say
the medics were not not as supportive as I would
hope they would be. I mean, you were, you were
(20:15):
in pretty bad shape a couple of times. Well what
happened at the start of the PT Uh the temperature
dropped down to seventeen you know, the sport's say. You know,
it's kind of unusual because when I arrived it was
you know, fifties, maybe it was high as sixty, and
then everyone was ordered to strip down to your shorts. Well,
(20:39):
I from that developed some bronchitis. H so as fighting
that and in addition to my my heart condition and
skiff beats and so forth. Uh, I was really pushing
pushing gravity for a while, and it was it was difficult.
It really was very difficult. Yeah, they thought they thought
(21:01):
they were losing you there. At one time, motor broke picture.
We went into this real crisis of uh just uh,
you know, shaking and out cracery all that up. So
you know, it was it was touch and go for
a while. But you know, resilience, you know, I was
(21:24):
I was determined to make this work. I really was
I knew this was the one shot time I would
never get this opportunity again, and uh, I wanted to
succeed sir. One of the things I found really compelling
in your book is in the art. Now, keep in
mind our listeners need to know that you had years
(21:44):
of experience working at the VA treating uh, you know,
veterans with with the psychiatric issues, and so you you
definitely came in there. I want to say, you know,
basic training, which is sort of a necessary thing for
you to go through, but you brought a lot of
a wealth experience with you already. You know, for example
that the all alfen here. Okay, I'm eighteen years old.
(22:05):
I can't buy a beer or a gun, but you
know I can be shipped off to a foreign land
to to shoot and blow things up and you're you're
the expert. So there's there's the development of the frontal
cortex if I get that phrase right, free funnel.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Yeah, preful cortex when.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
When in most most people, most young people, when is
that fully developed and fully formed at what age?
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Around age twenty five?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
So you know this this function is pretty important. Has
to do with impulsivity and with the executive decisions, and
and and time before reaction, time before taking action, so
your thought process is much shorter, or somebody that has
(22:54):
other develop your federal cortex to think before he acts. Now,
of course it'll eighteen nineteen year olds one year olds.
I mean, the recruiters love get these guys recruited. They have,
for example, the virtual vitality.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
They have this.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Sense of fearlessness, fearlessness and then naivety. It all goes
together so that, for example, if they're in a combat
zone and the company commanders tells them what the outcome
could be, it can be completely annihilated. They'll carry out
(23:34):
their order anyway. So is this a moral issue? Should
we think about it? Should we consider some real serious
discussion debate?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
I think so.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I don't oppose teenagers going into military. I think it's
an honorable thing to do with. I oppose them going
near to the combat zone the many other things they
can do. So again, I'm not an expert, but to me,
the physical aspects of that young person are not going
to change very much between eighteen and twenty five. In fact,
they might even get a little bit better. But they're
not you know, they're not going to be like me,
(24:06):
you know, puffing for breath after walking, you know, ten
paces up up some stairs, so that that that would
be okay. So what what would you propose or if
would it be sort of a maybe a transitionary period
for their first six seven years after joining the military
(24:27):
before they actually see combat and what are the practical
ramifications of that in our current recruiting system. I don't
know if there's any magical age, but I do feel that,
you know, teenagers should not be allowed in in a
war zone, if you know. I like what you said
(24:49):
about transition, because I think that that's that's an important issue.
I would I would say, you know, nobody under twenty one.
That that's why I field at least to give to
give them some opportunity for maturation. So then the numbers,
(25:12):
of course the problem. I guess, can you get enough
you know, soldiers, service members in able to fight a
war with that in mind, that criteria in mind. I
think that as we see so many changes occurring in
the world and technology is changing constantly, I think the
(25:35):
military does need to take that in consideration and think
about who we sent into a combat zone and who
we allow to join the military. I feel that drone
warfare certainly is here to stay. I don't don't think
there's any question about that.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Of course.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
You know, you take a nineteen year old that's sitting
in a in a train, there's some word in Colorado,
and he launches a drone attack over in Middle East
to a animey target, and he might be as susceptible
to develop PTSD as somebody who is on the ground
in combat. I tell you what, sir, I've had other
folks on the show who because people I think have
(26:19):
that common misconception. I'm sitting in the trailer in Nevada.
It's air conditioned, I got a sandwich there, and it's
not as traumatic. But I had a drone operator tell me,
actually it's more traumatic than because he had also flown
combat in Vietnam. He was another person of advanced days.
Let's say when he was serving. He says, look, in Vietnam,
(26:41):
I drop bombs everywhere, but I did it from ten
thousand feet twenty thousand feet. I never actually saw the
impacts of what was happening on the ground. But as
a drone operator, I might be actually tracking this individual
for days, for weeks. I'm getting to know them and
then I'm the one that pulls the trigger and sends
this munition down on his head. So it's actually he said,
(27:03):
it's it's it's more traumatic, or it can be more traumatic.
Is there coming back to the prefrontal cort extit I mean?
Is that I assume that varies in different individuals. It's
not a hard and fast line of twenty five for everyone.
I mean there are some young people that have matured
quicker than others and probably could handle this situation.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Yes, that is that is correct. It's not a hard
and fast but it's it's it's a general rule. Is
there is there a test or is there an evaluation
that we could do to say, okay, yeah, you're good
to go, here's your rifle versus you know what, We're
going to put you in more technical training for several years,
get to know the customs, traditions of the military, and
develop your your non combat expertise until you're ready to
(27:49):
actually go to a combat zone. Or is that that
I'm complicating things to mind? Well, there's there's as a
whole array of battery, psychological testing, battery. It's it's tremendous
what we have now. It's available but unfortunately we don't
use that in selecting them to recruit, to recruit them. Uh,
(28:11):
the recruiter, you know, all is pressured into cite it up.
You know, three of these high school graduates a lot
to keep his own promotion going. Uh. But I think
that psychological testing would be helpful, and not just for
those recruiting, but for those that we consider sitting into
(28:32):
a combat zone. Yes, okay, I tell you what, doctor,
and we come back. I want to follow up more
on that they're tirled by ageless calls to serve and
talk about how age should no longer be a limiting
factor in recruiting members men and women into our military.
Ladies and gentlemen, Ben Viuda Guarciale, We're back with more
with doctor Lammy Stoddrass in just a few seconds. Stick around,
(29:10):
Welcome back to American Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen. This
is your host, Ben buler Garcia. We're talking with doctor
Lanny Snodgrass. Doctor Snodgrass may have been the oldest person
in our history to ever join well, no matter history,
but Inton's recent memory. To join the military. He graduated,
went through basic training at the age of sixty three,
he's a psychiatrist by training and by a profession, I
(29:32):
tell you doctor as a business person. One of the
thing that really jumped out of me as a compelling
supporting argument for your case is basically the benefits of
older recruits, because, like in your case, you already came
in with very advanced technical skills. And you talk about
you know, as folks get older and stuff, they've developed
foreign language, they've already got leadership, discipline. There's all this
(29:55):
stuff that we might be spending on training younger people,
when if you recruit someone thirty five, forty five, fifty
years old, they've already got that learned experience and they're
bringing it with them. I mean, they've got that resume,
and that's that could save us a ton of money. Well,
all we have to do is look at the spear bed.
You might say that it's been done with the VA,
(30:16):
and the VA has learned that by hiring these doctors
that have gone into retirement and then wanted to come
out of retirement to practice, that the fields more manageable
and give them their skills to work for the government
and treat these veterans was a big plus. It was
(30:37):
it was a it was just masterful because they have
all of this experience and skills and with sharp minds,
and they have been a wonderful resource. Why can't the
military look at this and say, hey, we could you know,
we could recruit from this same pool senior doctors that
(31:01):
have spatialties in many areas that we all need that
are very critical and we want to have any problem
for shortages. And with the advancement of tallemedicine, just think
of how that would play into this and make it
very feasible and practical for some doctor to actually, you know,
you read X rays from his home, or he could
(31:24):
conduct consultations from his health through the telemedicine technology. You know,
it's interesting sort of thinking about that. I mean, I
know a lot of people that you know, joined at eighteen,
did their twenty years, you know, they got out of
the military, they're getting their patient and they start a
second career in the private sector. Hearing you speak, I
can almost see you flipping that on its head. I
(31:48):
go into a computer or medicine or something like that,
I practice for twenty years, get my retirement there, and
then join the military as my second career. Absolutely, I
just think that you know, archaic, arbitrary rules have not
been really examined, debated and discussed, and I think it's time,
(32:12):
it's really time for the military to take a real
closer look at this and say, hey, you know, times
have changed and people are getting older. They are they're
they're still functional, and they're the lifespan is increasing, and
we need to take advantage of this tremendous.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Resources out there.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
You know, you also mentioned a very practical I hadn't
bought this before, but if we're talking about someone who's
you know, a little further on in life and the
military is their second career, their savings there and you know,
like in your case, you pretty much had achieved the
level of expertise and training that you were going to
achieve before you even went in, so you didn't need
(32:57):
the GI bill. You know, a lot of these folks
have already you know, they've got a home, and if
you could arrange for them to serve someplace where they've
already got their home, you know, you can eliminate that
that housing alliance allowance. And you know, the lecture again
coming back to just the huge amount of money we
invest in training outlays and that problem is solved or mitigated. Well,
(33:19):
that that's true housing allowance. You know, it'd be something
that there would be noximoron for many of the physicians
that they don't need another place to another office. They
we have the zoom, we have all of the technology
for being able to communicate through this telemedicine technology that
(33:41):
that that has been I mean it is exploded. Really
during pandemic is when all this really started to come
to the Ford and it has just continued on from that.
We have seen the value of it. We've seen how
practical it is. It has enabled a whole number of
people and other not just physicians, but in other professions
(34:04):
as well, engineering, law, business, to be able to manage
their skills and their expertise through this technological advancement.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
It is. It's marvelous.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
You're the expert. I'm not one thing that comes to mind.
I brought this up with a senior enlisted leader at
my local base here and the concept, and you know,
he nodded and he got understood a lot of the
practical aspects of your argument. But then he pauses, said,
you know one thing about that though, when it comes
(34:42):
to combat, we really depend on those eighteen year olds
who are impulsive, who are fearless. You know, you take
a thirty year old and say, okay, you got to
take pork shop Hill, they might pause to think about
it a little bit longer. And so in effect, he
was looking at both size the coin. He felt that,
you know, to some extent, younger people are an essential
(35:04):
part of war. What are your thoughts on that? Well,
I think as we find out more of the psychological
tragedies of war on these young people, it's very sobery
and I think we need to take another point of view.
If you take someone that's under twenty five and put
(35:25):
them into a combat zone, they have more than twice
the risk of developing PTSD than somebody twenty five or over.
That's what the studies show. And you know, looking at
what the tragedy has been with these war look at Vietnam.
(35:46):
You had what the average aides of a trigger polar
in generes of Vietnam was eighteen nineteen. They came back
in thirty percent of them had post traumatic stress disorder.
Twenty years later fifteen fifteen percent. And those guys are
going to live with that forever. I think we got
to stop and think, you know, at what point do
(36:08):
we say the threshold did not send someone such a
risk into combat? So I try to so you make
some very compelling arguments, and I really appreciate it. We're
down to just about three minutes here planning anything else
you'd like to add for us. I really hope that
(36:28):
somehow people who read the book will find an inspiration
to think about what we're what we've been doing for
over a century, and age limits in the military has
never been a serious discussing and I generate some kind
of aggression. Why. I think you're spot on, and frankly,
(36:51):
right now there's no better time to do it, as
the recruiters are out there really struggling to meet their goals.
I mean, you're really identifying just a huge, which untap
potential recruitment pool for our military by by expanding the
age or or attorney it on its head and just
having an open more of an open mind when it
comes comes to recruiting and the type of I mean,
(37:13):
I could even see, maybe I don't know, some kind
of a commission or something would say, okay, here's there's
now two distinct paths. This is the path for our
older more experienced people, and this you know, we're gonna
we're not so much gonna worry about you failing out
of basic training because we know that you'll be doing
things a little bit differently. The other concern I have, doctor,
is war has changed so much now there's really not
(37:36):
a lot of rare echelon. I've spoken to you know,
hum the mechanics who engaged in firefights, so that that's
something else to consider. But on the whole, I really
enjoyed your book. I found it very compelling and I
appreciate you spending some time with our listeners shirt today. Doctor.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
It's a pleasure and it's an order to be interviewed here.
Thank you very good. You take care of yourself, ladies
and gentlemen. The book again is called the AST's called
The Serve Rethinking Military Service for a Changing World. You
just heard from doctor Lanny Snodgrass. He joined the military
at the age of sixty three. He's a psychiatrist by training,
and he just has got a lot of very very
(38:12):
interesting ideas that he presented the book. And I encourage
you civilian or military, and by all means, if you're
a recruiter or maybe even a policymaker back in Washington
to crack this book and just examine some of the
doctor Snodgrass's proposals. I think there's some very compelling arguments
in there for how we can maybe do things a
little bit differently in our country, and of course also
helps address just the scourge of PTSD and veteran suicide,
(38:36):
the impacts that the horrors of war, and as doctor
Stongrass mentioned as well, that the moral injuries are creating
among our young people and the death that we owe
to them to help avoid that and to take care
of them and help prevent those things from happening. Just
a really really compelling argument. Don't forget. You can find
this podcast and over six hundred others at American Warrior
(38:59):
Radio dot com. Most current podcasts are on your favorite
streaming platform, whatever it might be. And if you have
an idea or suggestion for us going into the new
year of guests that might be appropriate for American Warrior Radio.
Our mission is tell the stories of those who protect
us at home and abroad. Millet members of our military
first responder community. Until next time, ladies and gentlemen, it's
(39:20):
been a pleasure having you here. With us in twenty
twenty four. We'll see you again next year right here
in americawarriorradio dot com. Until next time, how polishes and
procedures are in remaining place, Take.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Care of yourselves.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
You've been listening to American Warrior Radio. Archived episodes may
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