December 29, 2024 • 39 mins
Havok Journal owner Charles Faint joins us for the last update of 2024. Charles is a retired Army Intelligence Officer who teaches at West Point military academy. Charles shares his “second favorite” event at West Point; “Branch Night”. Branch Night is the evening when the cadets learn what branch they will be assigned. They are handed a sealed envelope and, after some formalities and a keynote speaker, they all tear open their envelopes to learn where they will start their Army career. Generally, there is great excitement. However, on occasion, some cadets are disappointed. Charles explains that “Some of the best things that happened to me in life happened because I didn’t get what I wanted at the moment.” He would expect any Army 2nd Lieutenant to just commit to doing the best job they can wherever they are assigned. Next, we discuss Dave Chamberlain’s article about transitioning to civilian life. Dave served in our military for 38 years. His article makes a great comparison between leaving the service and “phantom limb pain”. Dave describes his first “phantom pain” came when his unit deployed shortly after retiring. Vincent Johnson’s article “Friends Lost in the Sandbox” describes his challenges in dealing with the loss of comrades and survivors guilt. Charles shares his personal experiences in the same vein. Brooke Hickox wrote an excellent article titled “A Civilian’s Military Benefit From a Daughter’s Perspective”. She describes growing up as the daughter of a law enforcement officer and Vietnam Veteran; the challenges but also the great way it prepared her for a productive adult life. Charles says it stands as an example of the breadth and diversity of their contributing authors. We wrap up with Frank Pauc’s hard hitting article “What it Takes to Bridge the Civ-Mil Divide”. Even with my three decades of supporting military families, this article challenged my ideas about what we as civilians owe military Veterans. I strongly recommend that any civilians seeking to understand the military/first responder communities pay a visit to the Havok Journal.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
We all owe them, but very few of us know them.
They are the men and women of our military and
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Speaker 2 (00:25):
WELLO, ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to American Warrior Radio. This
is your host, Ben Viueler Garcia American Warrior Radio broadcast
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get the process started, or visit Silencercentral dot com. Be
(00:48):
sure to check silencercentral dot com first to confirm if
owning a silencer is legal in your state. We're coming
up to the end of the year and so it
seemed appropriate that we would finish with our most featured guests,
Charles Faint, who's the owner of the Havoc Journal, my
go to place for all things military and first responder.
You can learn more Havoc Journal dot com. Charles, welcome
(01:10):
back to American Warrior Radio.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Being always a pleasure. Thanks having me back, Charles.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I was recently approached by a father who wanted my
help in recruiting some contacts for his daughter. She's applying
to the Naval Academy, and so hopefully things will go
well for her. And always take great pride and hope
in the fact that we still have these wonderful young
men and women who were going to our academies to
(01:36):
help lead our military. You shared an article recently with me,
Charles about your second favorite event at west Point.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
What is that? Absolutely, Ben, So, the first favorite thing
that I have about what plays the courts graduation is
you know, Ben and many of your listeners who heard
me be on the show before, I didn't go to
What Point. I did the Reserve Officer Training court Program
rus the Georgia Military College Anniversary University. But I've worked
at west Point for about ten total years now, twice
when I was an active duty and now in retirement.
(02:06):
And the second best thing west Point does, without a
doubt is Branch Night, And I'm happy to explain that
you for your audience, if you like, sure, Branch Night
is when the cadets of West Point, the firsties the seniors,
find out which branch of the army you go into.
So infantry or armor or my branch military intelligence, and
everyone fils into the auditorium at Eisenhower Hall. I call
(02:30):
and the cadets are there in their camouflage uniforms, and
there's a lot of ceremony at the beginning. It's very
well done. There's a fifty year affiliate class, so old
grads for fifty years ago that are associated with the
current graduating class come this year. The guest speaker was
the Fitting SECTFO was a graduate of the fifty year
(02:51):
affiliate gave a great, very brief speech. Then cadets are
handed envelopes with their branch inside of them, but the
envelope is sealed and the cadets can't see inside of it.
There's some deliberate tension building, and then the order is
given for the cadets to open their envelope. They tear
it open. There's a momentary hush. Then the entire I call,
(03:14):
something like four thousand people are ERPs into cheers and
laughing and crying hopefully mostly good type of crying, and
there's a big party. It's a great event.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Now what I assume explaining me how this works. So
when I go in to West Point at which Point.
Do I tell you, okay, I want to serve in
this specialty, here's my top two, my top three, my
top five, or do I not get it?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Say so at all? Great questions. So a lot of
cadets come here thinking they already know what they want
to do, but most of them really don't have a clue.
They know they want to serve and all the academies
are a great way to do it. I did already see
as I mentioned. Of course, there's many ways to the
nation that aren't in the military. But they come here
and most of them don't really know what they want
to do. They think they do. But over the course
(03:58):
of what you said, months that they're here, they have
a lot of exposure to different branches. There's a very
detailed process that cadets that are screening for them, so
eventually by the time it gets the branch night, most
people have a pretty good idea of what they're going
to be. Now. West Point produces a lot of combat arms,
so the traditional things people associate with the military, the infantry,
(04:21):
the armor, the filler, artillery, the typical things to associate
with it. Lots of aviators, intel folks come out, engineers
is another big branch, but the newest branch in the army.
Cyber branch is super popular here, very competitive as well,
So a lot of folks come here, don't know what
they want to do, and then kind of figure it
out over the course of the years. Some folks come
in and know exactly what they want to do and
(04:41):
they end up with it. So it's a very interesting
and data driven process.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Charles, I'll probably get this wrong, but isn't there some
kind of a quote or a directive that face it
you'll go wherever the army needs you to go.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, needs of the Army Simon. Sometimes it doesn't work
out quite the way that cadets want and any of
the commis sources in RTC or Opter canded school ts
or at West Point. Sometimes they give what we call
force branch and they'll they'll list out there's number one
choice down to end. I think the end is seventeen.
I think there was a seventeen branch they could choose from.
(05:15):
And sometimes you get something that's really down on your list,
or sometimes you get something that that you don't want
on your list at all. But the purpose of the
article that I wrote was that whatever's in that envelope.
So the envelope I mentioned that I've got the branch
insignia that shows where you'll start your army career. You
need to be the best that you can be whatever's
in there, you need to be good at that because
(05:36):
the Army needs good leaders in all of its branches,
and it's up to us, the officers, provide that no
matter how we feel about it going in.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And you know, you pointed out that on occasion there
is some disappointment even maybe outright anger, and that's not
the best way to start off your army leadership career,
I'm guess because you say, I mean, how's your new
platoon gonna feel? When the LT says I don't want
to be here?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Exactly right? So I mentioned I did RTC, and I
think the way that I found out what branch I got,
I think I went to my Military Science four hundred
class and I think my professor there just read off
the list of names, which is fine. I didn't know
any different, But seeing the way that it's done a
west Point, the sense of tension building and the excitement
in it, I think it's a great way to do it.
(06:20):
But it's something I noticed the very first time I
went to branchline as an outside observer. We're a couple
of cadets that were super upset, almost throwing a tantrum
over what branch they got, and I thought that was
interesting and concerning for a number of ways. No cadet
in that room has spent a day as a commissioned
officer of any branch, so they have no idea what
X branch is going to be. Like I'll say Chemical
(06:42):
corecause that often gets an undeservedly bad rap those got
Furst Branch, Chemical Corp or whatever and throw a big
fit about it. But that's not what we're there for
as officers. Some of the best things that happened to
me in life happened because I didn't get what I
thought I wanted the moment. And I expect these firsties
who will very soon be lieutenant to have the maturity
and professionals like, well, this isn't what I wanted, but
(07:04):
I'm going to make the best out of this. I
want to be the best at that I.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Can, and they somewhere down the line, they can always change, right.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, it's super easy to do. I remember one of
one of the guys that I graduated with desperately wanted
to fly helicopter, and he got commissioned into medical service,
and I won't say he was upset about it, but
he's definitely disappointed. A great guy. But then he found
out that Medical Service branch had a program where you
could find by betavac helicoppter. Then he became a pilot,
which is what he always wanted to do. It work
(07:31):
could not work out better. And sometimes we think that
we want to do. For example, maybe I wanted to
be an FT officer, but I didn't get it. Maybe
that was really good because I dispositionally wouldn't have worked
out well for me. And I've I really found my
stride in this other branch. And sometimes we're just not
good enough or whatever it is we're trying out for,
and we've got to be mature enough. Except that as well.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I don't know if this has ever happened, but as
a civilian, I'm wondering. So there's how many options? You
said eighteen?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
So I think there's seventeen break thic branches that cadets
can commission directly into. There are four branches in that
in the army, for example, you can't mission directly into
the Special Forces branch. You can commission into Branch A,
and then you could commission out of that you can
branch transfer to Branch B. But also the Army has
different specialties later on in their career called functional areas.
(08:20):
So for example, if I really wanted to do intel
in the army, but I got force branched into armor,
or I got my second or third choice, or was
a great branch later on in my career, if I
stand long enough, I could transition to a functional area
thirty four, if A thirty four which is strat intel.
But there are ways to get to what you want
to do in the army. And of course if you
can't get an active duty you could probably find a
National Guard reserve unit, or you might find that you
(08:42):
actually like it or good at whatever branch was you
ended up with.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So, Charlso got about a minute left for the first break.
I guess my dumb question is they open this envelope.
They'd pull out this low I'm guessing that's a brass
pin of some sort. You ever had a commit look
at it and say, I have no idea what this is.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
So now by the time there first they've been exposed
to the branches pretty good. I do think it would
be pretty funny though, to mix something in there that's
not a US branch instigia just for fun. But we
do what we can here to make it right for
the cadets.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Sounds like a great event, Charles. When come back, I
want to talk about something I'm still hearing a lot about,
and that's the challenge of transitions. Dave Chamberlain's got a
great article talking about It's called when you are no
Longer part of the machine. Folks, you can read all
this visit Havoc Journal dot com Havok Journal dot com
and we'll be back with more with Charles faith Is
(09:33):
your host, Ben Vila Garcia.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Don't forget.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
You can find over six hundred episodes of American Warrior
Radio at American Warrior Radio dot com or whatever your
favorite platform for listening to podcasts.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Welcome back to American Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen. We're
having our regular chat with Charles Faint, who's the CEO, owner,
all around good guy of the Havoc Journalists. Might go
to website for all things military and first responded. I
particularly recommended to civilians. It's a great way to get
a better understanding of what are those who protect us
at home and abroad are thinking and going through and
(10:33):
what you can do to help. Charles one of my
favorite not emerging, but I'm starting to become real pleased
with Dave Chamberlain. He writes some really good stuff and
a good way. It really makes you scratch your head
and think.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
And one of the common themes I hear on American
Warrior Radio when I have over the last decade or
so is just the challenges of transitioning from the military
to the civilian world.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Dave served thirty eight years and the Air Force and
the Air National Guard. That's a pretty long push, and
he says he was ready to go when he left,
but he just an article when you're no longer part
of the machine. He's a perfect example of what some
of these veterans are feeling. He describes it as being
comparable to phantom limb pain, and if people aren't familiar
(11:19):
with that, it's a common affliction when people have an
amputation that they still feel mentally, they still get an itch,
or they feel something in that appendage that is no
longer there and he compares that to how he feels
now being out. And I just at a really, really good,
very powerful article.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, Ben has a tendency been Dave has a tendency
to write, just like you were talking about. He's one
of our most prolific authors. I love reading his work,
and you're absolutely right, Ben, what Dave describes as the
santom limb pain of separating from the military, I think
is a very apt description that a lot of vet
can relate to, especially the post nine to eleven combat
(12:02):
and war veterans. I think that they do so much,
so hard, for so long, and they're not doing it anymore.
As a huge gap in their life, they definitely feel
something missing, They feel that phantom limb that's still with them,
but they can't use it, they can't touch it, they
can't do anything with it. And I think that's an
excellent way to frame, especially for folks who never served
(12:23):
in the military, what it's like for some bet to
leave the military.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Well, in his case, he describes so thirty eight years,
but that day did come. You know, he gets in
his car and he drives off the base and he's out.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
He's gone.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
He's no longer part right, no longer part of that
active duty tribe, and he says his biggest phantom pain,
or the first time he experienced that, in his words,
was then when his unit deployed and he felt like
he should be with them. Still.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, a lot of folks feel that way. I hear
that a lot from especially troops who get wounded and
can't go back, or who make the decision to get
out before they know that their unit's coming up on
orders to deploy, and the unit goes without them. One
of the worst things to happen in any tribe or
pack is be the one that gets left behind. I
always say, my wife and I talk about this often.
(13:13):
It is easier to be the one that goes, that's
the one that stays. I did seven deployments to Iraq
in Afghanistan, and my wife, who's also a veteran, stayed
home and take care of our kids and ran our
home front for and I think it was harder for her,
but the uncertainty and everything else that's going on versus
for me doing what I wanted to do overseas. So
(13:33):
it's hard to be that guy to see that life
goes on without You have to see that installation in
your room of mirror.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Now, Charles, you're not that long out yourself, do you.
Are you feeling any phantom pains?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Not really been, but I think it's because my life
didn't change a whole bunch. So we talked about my
job here at west Play were for the Modern Multitude.
I add that job before I retired. I retired, was
doing some stuff on my own for about a year,
and then a devillion job opened up in the Modern
War Institute, a different job than the one I had.
(14:09):
I was a deputy for a couple of years, and
I came back on and I am now the managing editor.
I work for the editor in chief of the Modern
War Institute. His name is John Ambele. I work for
John and my boss, COLONL. Sullivan's. My life hasn't changed
that much. There's actually in many ways my life has
gotten easier. I have far less responsibility now I wear
(14:30):
what I want to work. I don't have to take
the Army's ridiculous PT tests anymore, and I get to
do what I really enjoy and am good at, which
is mentoring and advising and editing and podcasting. So for me,
I have the same wife I have the same house,
I work in the same feat that all the things
(14:52):
that I did when I was on active duty. My
life hasn't changed that much. So many people lives changed
so much. They don't have that support network, They don't
have that second mission, that sense of worth after they
get out, and it's super hard for them. And I
worry about this constantly with a lot of my veteran friends,
and I'm grateful for myself and my family that I
haven't haven't had the experience.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
I tell you, Charles, one thing I'm still very worried
about is, given the way things turned out for those
Posts nine eleven or Global War on Terror, veterans who
are struggling with looking back and saying was it worth it?
And you know, the next second we're talking about people
who've lost, who lost friends and comrades and those battles
(15:35):
and are you what is your what is the pulse
you're getting about along those lines, Charles.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Well, for me personally, the way Afghanistan ended was why
I decided to leave the military. And I know this
isn't a political show, and I'm not underested talk of politics,
so we will go down that road. But I know
a lot of folks took that in particular really hard,
and of course Iraq and much better. So I think
it's hard for a lot of folks those types of
things that are happening, and they do have that exact
(16:03):
question that you're asked, then was it worth it? For me?
It was. Some veterans don't feel the same and they
can't answer in the same way. But I appreciate everything
that the military gave me. I appreciate everything America gave me.
I'm glad I served, But I think I feel differently
about my service now than I did thirty years ago
when I first started.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Would you, in good conscious recommend someone showing up now?
I mean, I'm cleverly there was a change in the wind,
I think a more positive one.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
But how do you.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Feel about I mean, this young lady who's entering the
naval Academy, I almost want to say, are you sure?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Well? I think you need to ask that of anyone
who wants to do in the military academy. You need
to ask them are they making the right choices? Are
the right choices to go to West Points? But setting
that aside, I think that to answer your question, yeah, yeah,
I recommend it. I still think it's a normal profession.
I think some of the things that I didn't like
that and careful in the military are probably going to
(17:01):
change soon. My own daughters, if they wanted to join
the military, I would encourage them to do it. But again,
as you and I talked about many times, many ways
to serve, just find what works best for you and
your family and your situation and go out and do it.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
So, speaking of service, real quick, how's the law enforcement
gig come along for you?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Oh? I'm loving that. We had a big awards ceremony
just last night the Public Safety Emergency Force over Westchester County.
What a great organization of men and women who are
really getting after it to help keep their community safe.
Could not be prouder of that organization.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
So coming back to this branch and night, real quick,
are their family members invited or it's just a cadets
and a leadership?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah? Yeah, So the west Point community is advised. In fact,
I saw a number of older children, teenagers and family
members and things like that. Because one of the unique
things about west Point that I did not experience in
RGC is how cloth a lot of the instructors are
with their families with the Cadet, really close relationship. So
(18:08):
you sponsored as a former sponsorship program here you sponsor
Cadet for four years. You get to kind of see
them grow up in the academy system and then that
exciting day of finding out what they're going to spend
probably at least the first five years of the army end.
So yeah, everybody comes there to support it, and then
as I mentioned, a huge party thereafter where the different
branches have wag and things to give out. It's great.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Okay, Charles abon taking another break, ladies and gentlemen, there's
your host, Ben Buler Garcia back with more with Charles
Fann of the Havoc Journal.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
It'sick Ground.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
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Speaker 5 (18:57):
Thank you, Welcome back to American Boy Radio.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Ladies, and gentlemen, this is Ben buler Garcia. We're coming
to you from the Silencer Central Studios. Adding a silence
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(19:35):
or visit silencercentral dot com. We're doing our last check
into the year with Charles faith the head honcho of
the Havoc Journal. Might go to place for all things
military and first responder. You can visit yourself having journal
dot com. Charles, A couple of things I want to
talk about now would sort of, you know, before the break.
We're talking about whether asking whether it was worth it
(19:57):
with the way things ended up there in the Middle East,
and they're Vincent Johnson wrote an article called a Friend's
Loss in the Sandbox and he relates in the article
how he lost a couple of his buddies in an
Ied attack and that caused him to, i'll say, reevaluate
his faith. But then he remembers back that previous Christmas
(20:20):
where they're they're headed to the telephone tent I guess,
for lack of a better term, to get online to
make calls back to family during Christmas. And they began
taking incoming rocket fire, and one rocket landed right outside
that phone tent, but it didn't detonate. And they come
right around the corner, and here's the chaplain standing there
looking at this rocket that didn't go Often he thought, well,
(20:42):
maybe maybe there was a god after all. I just
don't understand him.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I remember that article, what a great piece, and mentioned
in the article that he was in the second Ntry
Division in Korea and I was there also. Based on
when he was talking about the timeline, I think I
left just before he got there. He was in a
thought unit. And it doesn't surprise me at all. That
was a very tight unit when they got over to Iraq.
And it really is. It seems like there's no ryan
(21:08):
more reason to who gets to live and who doesn't,
and why I survived all those all those trips in
folks that I knew didn't Unfortunately for me, there were
there were a few of them that didn't make it
back Compared to some of my peers who had a
much tougher deployment than I did and much deeper losses.
(21:32):
So yeah, it's always tough to deal with the loss,
especially when you're young. You think you're bulletproof and then
something happens that makes you realize you're not. Causes a
lot of reflecting. So it doesn't surprise me at all
that you go down range with these young folks two
thousand and three ish, like you was talking about in
two thousand and four in Iraq, and didn't find out
(21:53):
that sometimes it's your time. And it's really hard to
understand that a lot of surcribers guilt for a lot
of that out.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
There, Charles, I've watched Band of Brothers fifteen hundred times.
I could probably recite the dialogue better than the actors could.
And there there's are you familiar with that series? Have
you seen it?
Speaker 3 (22:11):
My daughter was watching three runs of it last night.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
There's I think it's the care Tan episode where there's
a private blythe I think it was Edward Blinthe he's
huttled down in the foxhole. You know what I'm talking about? Yes,
And you know that that captain comes along and says, look,
you know, you what you don't get is you have
to just face the fact that you're already dead, and
only in accepting that can you become what we need
(22:36):
of you as a soldier, you know, to work without
remorse and without guilt and without hesitation. And I thought,
you know, that's a heck of a thing to say.
But there seems to be some wisdom in that.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Yeah. I think that one was a little extreme, and
I'm not sure that it had the desired effect. And
the guy that's already terrified, there is some truth in
understanding where you are and what can happen. I think
that we have to be brave even when we're scared,
and anything could happen in combat. Certainly, the combat that
(23:10):
they were experiencing in World War Two is nothing like
what I experienced. I had a bunch easier and safer,
especially as the intel guy in the national level Special
Operations Task Force. I had a very different experience than
storming the beaches, etc. So I think there are ways
that we can help people understand their situation. Sometimes what
(23:31):
people need in situation like that is a little bit
of encouragement instead of some discouragement. You also don't want
people to develop this fatalistic attitude where they just assume
they're going to die. It was interesting for me, Ben
for when I was young. For whatever reason, I thought
that when I was eighteen, my life was half over,
and I was like, I thought that I was going
(23:54):
to be dead at thirty six. I had my thirty
sixth birthday on my third tour in Iraq. I thought
that I was like, all right, here's going to happen.
Now that was a long time ago, fifty two. Now,
obviously that didn't happen. But I think the closer you
are to death, the more you think about it. And
I think everyone has a different way of dealing with it.
And the way that was driving that episode is probably
(24:16):
not the way that I would have dealt with it.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
But Charles, this is going to be an awkward transition.
But one of the first conversations you and I had
here on American Radio was about your daughter's accusation that
when you were deployed in your cushy intel job, you
did nothing but spend all day playing Call of Duty. Yep,
and you actually it harked me back to an article
(24:37):
that you had published in Coffee or Die magazine in
twenty nineteen talking about a couple of buddies you lost
in the sandbox and the connection to call of duty.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah. Yeah, first point of clarification, you're honor. My daughter
was merely repeating the accusations of my wife Lilla. So
when I was with the Task Force, all of our
external were monitored as they should be, and we were
all terrified of what the rage is called being relief,
(25:08):
belief from cause, relief from the regiment. We didnt want
to get kicked out. So the only thing that I
felt safe to talk about was call of duty. What'd
you do today? Well, I can't tell you x y Z,
but I played call of duty when the pilots got back,
and so when I got back home that was the
running joke. But in the same unit I was in
where we started Call of duty and it was sixtieth.
(25:28):
The folks that you were mentioning are Damnit Cants and
John Quinland. So their nicknames that we called them were
Yardbird and Irish. I did not know them particularly well.
I did go through Greenvitune with Dan. Dan used to
beat me up a bunch on the combative with former
Special Forces. John was just a huge and great guy,
(25:53):
and both of them died in Afghanistan in Zombil in
February of two thousand and seven. I wasn't in the
one sixtieth anymore that point. I was in jaysock by them,
but I it came home to me. It was like,
oh wow, I knew these guys, and those are the
first guys that I knew more than to say hi
to that that died. Just another indicator of how high
(26:13):
risk our profession really is. They were an M forty
seven helicopters that that crashed with a bunch of rangers
in the back. Some of them lived, but unfortunately Dan
and John didn't well.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
And for people who weren't familiar to the one sixty
at the night Sockers, that pretty much they were the
exclusive transportation for our special forces. Well maybe not exclusive,
but very often they're they're at the at the tip
of the spear as well.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Absolutely right, the great unit and again I was the
intel guy. Did not fly a single helicopter, right. I
got to steer at MH forty seven when it was
taxing once or twice. But yeah, I played call of
duty with Dan. Dan with a big time call of
duty guy, ran his mouth a lot, very very tough competitor,
and that was a great unit. And fact, my wife
(27:01):
likes to say that that was her favorite unit for
us to be in, in terms of the way that
they treated me as a support guy, the way they
treated her as a spouse, the fact that I had
to try out to be in that unit, the fact
that get kicked out if you weren't meeting the standard.
What a great unit to be in some great men
and women.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
And there have been I'll tell you what made me
think of that, And not in any way similar, but
with the anniversary of the Battle of the Bulge or
any big battle anniversary, I I don't know why I
do it, but I go back and I searched our
podcast archives about people that I interviewed that you know,
(27:38):
were that fought at the Battle of the Bulge, and
you know, this year, you know, I'm looking and none
of these guys are around anymore. And I'm just thinking
about the importance of what we do and what you
do and have a journal and anybody who's got a podcast,
a military podcast or something like this that's recording those
stories forever, and you know, it's just I'm glad that
(28:03):
those men from that generation that are left are opening
up a little bit and talking more about it. But
it's just sort of a darna, you know. I just
the guy was just here, and yeah, it's sort of
a sort of a somber, somber thing.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Charles, I agree, and I think it's so important for
these stories to get written down and told and listen to.
That's one of the reasons I was so thrilled back
in the day when Marty Scoveland approached me to help
him write a book called Violence of Action about the
Ranger Regiment. So I think the the culture has changed
a lot last twenty or so years, but it's really
hard to get guys that did a lot in the
(28:42):
military to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Talk about that more when we come back from the break,
because that's a great lead. Ladier, gentlemen, Benji Lagarcia will
be right back. Welcome back to American Warrior Radio. Ladies
(29:13):
and gentlemen. There's your host, Ben bler Garci. We're doing
our last check in of the year with Charles Faint,
who's the boss at hav a Journal. Great read there,
I check it rarely visit havoc a Journal dot com.
Before the break you were talking about your father, Charles.
And there was another an article I really really enjoyed
written by Brooke Hickocks called The Civilians Military Benefit from
(29:35):
a Daughter's Perspective, and she describes growing up as the
daughter of then law enforcement officer but also a Vietnam
era veteran who did deploy, and how it was different.
I mean, she describes how she's with her dad and
they pull up behind this truck full of shady looking characters,
and as an eleven year old, she's already recording her
(29:56):
mind a detailed description of what these potential fingers look like,
which is not normal for your average eleven year old.
But a lot of it also is the fact that
her father did not speak about his time in Vietnam.
And it's just it's a really good read, a really
good write. I congratulates to Brook on that one.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
I like that one also goes to show the breadth
of authors at HAVOC. So we like our articles to
have a military law enforcement first responder nexus to it,
like this one does, but they don't have to if
it's something that I think resonates with the veteran community.
Our editor, Mike Warnock will edit it and publish it.
(30:40):
So Brooks article about being a child of a military
veteran of being a law enforcement really tracks of my
own experiences and also goes to show that our children
are always watching. We've got to be careful of what
we're exposing them to and the lessons that we're trying
to teaching them.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
I tell you one of that I pulled a couple
of quotes because I really she says, when I went
off to college, my dad told me something I've never forgotten.
They're the calmest person in the room, and never.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Trust the loudest. That's some good advice, absolutely right. Yeah,
I got to know the difference of the blowhards and
the folks that are just kind of quiet taking everything
in that are the calm ones, the self assured ones. Yeah,
and it's always good advice to watch out for everybody,
but particularly learn body language and understand what's happening when
(31:27):
things are kicking off. I think that's great invite.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
You know, one of the articles that I had the
honor of writing for having a journal talked about my
experiences at the change of command at my local base
and how you know when they thank me for what
I'm doing to support them a I consider it my duty,
so that seems a little off, But I always take
more from those events inspiration. I come out more energized,
(31:49):
and I ever ever give to them. She wraps up
her article. What she received is a civilian as a
child of a veteran, and she says, why is it
that every man in our family has worn America's uniform
at one point? Where did they get that influence? Why
is it that no one in my family has a
victim mentality? Why is it that we always stand up
for what we believe in and look for solutions versus
(32:11):
complaining who influenced us all to be leaders? We never
lived on a military base, We never had any military
benefits of the pride, work, ethic, strength, intelligence, and the
need to be ten minutes early. And of course the
one thing this whole country benefits from freedom That was
more than enough.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Powerful stuff, absolutely and a great way to end that article.
Of course, those traits aren't unique to the military, but
they are very typical of the military. Things always off
theoor indicative of how the military has largely become a
family affair. My father was in the military, my wife,
both my grandfathers, my great grandfather that was still alive
(32:48):
when I was a child, So it goes back a
long ways, and I think there are good things and
bad things about that. But I think even a couple
of years in the military really helped folks understand and
coping skills, functioning with s teamwork. One of the only
melting pots that's truly left is the military. Even in
colleges these days, people self segregate in racially or ideologically,
(33:12):
and that's really hard to do. In the military, you
kind of got to be out there with everybody. I
think that makes you help appreciate everybody is whether they're
in a career in the military.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
You know, Charles just I was at a holiday party
and the wife of the base commander. She and I
got into a conversation and it was really interesting because
she really corrected me and turned me around on a
lot of things that I thought I had a correct
perspective on, but she straightened me out. And that's one
of the other things I love about the having journal
(33:43):
articles is I may not always enjoy them. I may
have a different take as a civilian, but clearly I
haven't been there, I haven't walked in your boots. And
one of those articles was by Frank Palk. It says
what it takes to briggs the civilian military divide, and
of course, given our mission American warrior, way do I
jumped all over that looking for some valuable insights. And
(34:05):
by the way, you I mean have a journal, must
be doing pretty good. You what you rang the bellet
nasdak or.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Uh? Yeah, that was that was kind of experience. One
of the things I do in my off tine is
I do some leadership consulting work. My job here allows
me to take leave and go do that, so I
work with their leadership is the name of the company.
And they had a Veterans Day event down in New
York City and it ended up being a much bigger
(34:35):
deal than I expected. We got to do the opening
belt and as Dak down Times Square quite have a
fun event and I had a good time there.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Well, and it's just not I guess comparison that in
context with Frank's article, I want to check in with you.
We've got about five minutes left. You know what, As
a civilian, as a translator, I always come back to
the question of what what do we really owe our veterans,
and how good of a job are we as a
pavilion communities is flaying leadership doing and upholding those commitments.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Absolutely, that's a great question. But I think largely this
question is going to vary vi veteran. I'll give you
my answer, what I think other people will have a
dramatically different answer. I think that's okay. But first of all,
regarding Frank, another great, very prolific habitural author, also West
Point grad, I don't think a lot of people know
(35:26):
that about Frank, graduated class of nineteen eighty the Aviator,
very interesting perspectives on life. And with regard to what
America owes its veterans, I'm very satisfied with what America
has done for me in the veteran community. The healthcare,
the experiences I got compensated fairly as felt as an
(35:47):
officer in the army. The post nine eleven g I
Bill is certainly the most serous thing that America has
done for its veterans of my generation and maybe ever so.
I think that what America gives us the the things
that we're entitled to by our contract, Like I mentioned,
the healthcare or the education methods and stuff like that
the conversation. I think that's more than adequate. Anyone who
(36:09):
wants to do anything more than that, great, but I
certainly don't expect it. And just as an example, I
mentioned on the Facebook post about the NAZAC event, there
were some folks in Texas Roadhouse there that gave me
a bunch of tickets to give the vets for free
meals at the restaurant. Great. Thank you. I appreciate that
Texas Roadhouse. I love Texas Roadhouse, eat there every chance
(36:31):
I get. But they don't have to do that. I
don't expect that. I don't expect a military discount. I
don't expect to be treated differently if I'm stopped by
a cop because I'm speeding just because I'm a Vet.
But anything folks want to do on top of what
we're entitled to great. I think other folks, especially the
ones who've kind of had that experience with the Veterans administration,
might have a different perspective, and I think that's okay too.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Is there anything that we're missing?
Speaker 3 (36:57):
It's always hard sometimes forget that or as exhision of
politics by their means, but when politics gets in the
way of what the way we think that a war
should be run. I mentioned my feelings about the way
Afghanistan ended. That's always tough, and I think we could
always do better at that as a nation. It took
me a long time to be okay with my small
(37:17):
part in the big machine of the executive branch United
States Military, of the Knight States government, and being part
of the military. I think there's always things we could
do better. But I am satisfied with what America is
doing for our veterans right now, and I'm grateful for it,
and I think a lot of veterans foil the.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Same they did.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Charles. Has been a great conversation as usual. Just a
couple of mons left. Any updates coming down with have
a Journal or the Second Mission Foundation.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
So we're heading on to dot. Look forward to see
some of our fans and listeners out of shot show.
That's going to be a great event. My sister Kathy's
playing that one on for us. Got another book coming
out from the Second Mission, call Survive in Vietnam. I'll
be sure to send you a copy, Bend. And I
think that's about it for it. Then, looking forward to
being still again here in a couple of months.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
So who who do I have to kill to get
invited to the shot show? Or I just have to
write a check like everybody else.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
I check like everybody else. Ben, I'd love to see
you there, I.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Would, do you think it'd be advantageous?
Speaker 3 (38:15):
I think though that one for the first time last year,
and just the sheer scale of it, the people to meet.
I ran into Tim Kennedy, for example, on the escalator,
So I've been a fan of Tim Kennedy for years,
and there he is, and he turned around the escalator,
had a conversation with him. So I definitely think it's
worth going then.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
And you said, Tim, you really need to go on
American Warrior Radio. You're really, really, really buddy, you do.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
May if I run into him again this year, I'll
be sure to tell him that fair enough.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Well, We're we're focused on extending our reach this coming
year in twenty twenty five. It's it's been a good
year for us at American Warrior Radio, and I hope
it's going to get better. And of course, our mission
really is to get these messages out to everybody who
needs to hear them, and we couldn't have done it
without you. Charles and your friends at tas a Journal
were very appreciative.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Thank you, Ben, thanks for having me on the show,
and thank you for the work you do for the
vetter community. And you absolutely deserve to be on more channel,
so I look forward to hearing more about that in
the future.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Fair enough, fair enough, all right, Charles's best to you
and your family.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Thanks tame to you, Ben. There you going.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Ladies and gentlemen, don't forget. You can find over six
hundred podcasts on American Warrior Radio dot com. If you
have an idea, if you have known somebody that's got
a story to tell, please send them our way. Until
next time, all policies and procedures are remaining place.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Take care. You've been listening to American Warrior Radio.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Archived episodes maybe found at
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Americanwarriorradio dot com or your favorite podcast platform.
We all owe them, but very few of us know them.
They are the men and women of our military and
first responder communities, and these are their stories. American Warrior
Radio is on the air.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
WELLO, ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to American Warrior Radio. This
is your host, Ben Viueler Garcia American Warrior Radio broadcast
for the Silencer Central Studios. They're the nation's largest suppressure dealer,
and they're ready to make your silencer buying journey as
simple and painful as possible. Call them today at eight
six six six four zero three two seven zero to
get the process started, or visit Silencercentral dot com. Be
(00:48):
sure to check silencercentral dot com first to confirm if
owning a silencer is legal in your state. We're coming
up to the end of the year and so it
seemed appropriate that we would finish with our most featured guests,
Charles Faint, who's the owner of the Havoc Journal, my
go to place for all things military and first responder.
You can learn more Havoc Journal dot com. Charles, welcome
(01:10):
back to American Warrior Radio.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Being always a pleasure. Thanks having me back, Charles.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I was recently approached by a father who wanted my
help in recruiting some contacts for his daughter. She's applying
to the Naval Academy, and so hopefully things will go
well for her. And always take great pride and hope
in the fact that we still have these wonderful young
men and women who were going to our academies to
(01:36):
help lead our military. You shared an article recently with me,
Charles about your second favorite event at west Point.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
What is that? Absolutely, Ben, So, the first favorite thing
that I have about what plays the courts graduation is
you know, Ben and many of your listeners who heard
me be on the show before, I didn't go to
What Point. I did the Reserve Officer Training court Program
rus the Georgia Military College Anniversary University. But I've worked
at west Point for about ten total years now, twice
when I was an active duty and now in retirement.
(02:06):
And the second best thing west Point does, without a
doubt is Branch Night, And I'm happy to explain that
you for your audience, if you like, sure, Branch Night
is when the cadets of West Point, the firsties the seniors,
find out which branch of the army you go into.
So infantry or armor or my branch military intelligence, and
everyone fils into the auditorium at Eisenhower Hall. I call
(02:30):
and the cadets are there in their camouflage uniforms, and
there's a lot of ceremony at the beginning. It's very
well done. There's a fifty year affiliate class, so old
grads for fifty years ago that are associated with the
current graduating class come this year. The guest speaker was
the Fitting SECTFO was a graduate of the fifty year
(02:51):
affiliate gave a great, very brief speech. Then cadets are
handed envelopes with their branch inside of them, but the
envelope is sealed and the cadets can't see inside of it.
There's some deliberate tension building, and then the order is
given for the cadets to open their envelope. They tear
it open. There's a momentary hush. Then the entire I call,
(03:14):
something like four thousand people are ERPs into cheers and
laughing and crying hopefully mostly good type of crying, and
there's a big party. It's a great event.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Now what I assume explaining me how this works. So
when I go in to West Point at which Point.
Do I tell you, okay, I want to serve in
this specialty, here's my top two, my top three, my
top five, or do I not get it?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Say so at all? Great questions. So a lot of
cadets come here thinking they already know what they want
to do, but most of them really don't have a clue.
They know they want to serve and all the academies
are a great way to do it. I did already see
as I mentioned. Of course, there's many ways to the
nation that aren't in the military. But they come here
and most of them don't really know what they want
to do. They think they do. But over the course
(03:58):
of what you said, months that they're here, they have
a lot of exposure to different branches. There's a very
detailed process that cadets that are screening for them, so
eventually by the time it gets the branch night, most
people have a pretty good idea of what they're going
to be. Now. West Point produces a lot of combat arms,
so the traditional things people associate with the military, the infantry,
(04:21):
the armor, the filler, artillery, the typical things to associate
with it. Lots of aviators, intel folks come out, engineers
is another big branch, but the newest branch in the army.
Cyber branch is super popular here, very competitive as well,
So a lot of folks come here, don't know what
they want to do, and then kind of figure it
out over the course of the years. Some folks come
in and know exactly what they want to do and
(04:41):
they end up with it. So it's a very interesting
and data driven process.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Charles, I'll probably get this wrong, but isn't there some
kind of a quote or a directive that face it
you'll go wherever the army needs you to go.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, needs of the Army Simon. Sometimes it doesn't work
out quite the way that cadets want and any of
the commis sources in RTC or Opter canded school ts
or at West Point. Sometimes they give what we call
force branch and they'll they'll list out there's number one
choice down to end. I think the end is seventeen.
I think there was a seventeen branch they could choose from.
(05:15):
And sometimes you get something that's really down on your list,
or sometimes you get something that that you don't want
on your list at all. But the purpose of the
article that I wrote was that whatever's in that envelope.
So the envelope I mentioned that I've got the branch
insignia that shows where you'll start your army career. You
need to be the best that you can be whatever's
in there, you need to be good at that because
(05:36):
the Army needs good leaders in all of its branches,
and it's up to us, the officers, provide that no
matter how we feel about it going in.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And you know, you pointed out that on occasion there
is some disappointment even maybe outright anger, and that's not
the best way to start off your army leadership career,
I'm guess because you say, I mean, how's your new
platoon gonna feel? When the LT says I don't want
to be here?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Exactly right? So I mentioned I did RTC, and I
think the way that I found out what branch I got,
I think I went to my Military Science four hundred
class and I think my professor there just read off
the list of names, which is fine. I didn't know
any different, But seeing the way that it's done a
west Point, the sense of tension building and the excitement
in it, I think it's a great way to do it.
(06:20):
But it's something I noticed the very first time I
went to branchline as an outside observer. We're a couple
of cadets that were super upset, almost throwing a tantrum
over what branch they got, and I thought that was
interesting and concerning for a number of ways. No cadet
in that room has spent a day as a commissioned
officer of any branch, so they have no idea what
X branch is going to be. Like I'll say Chemical
(06:42):
corecause that often gets an undeservedly bad rap those got
Furst Branch, Chemical Corp or whatever and throw a big
fit about it. But that's not what we're there for
as officers. Some of the best things that happened to
me in life happened because I didn't get what I
thought I wanted the moment. And I expect these firsties
who will very soon be lieutenant to have the maturity
and professionals like, well, this isn't what I wanted, but
(07:04):
I'm going to make the best out of this. I
want to be the best at that I.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Can, and they somewhere down the line, they can always change, right.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, it's super easy to do. I remember one of
one of the guys that I graduated with desperately wanted
to fly helicopter, and he got commissioned into medical service,
and I won't say he was upset about it, but
he's definitely disappointed. A great guy. But then he found
out that Medical Service branch had a program where you
could find by betavac helicoppter. Then he became a pilot,
which is what he always wanted to do. It work
(07:31):
could not work out better. And sometimes we think that
we want to do. For example, maybe I wanted to
be an FT officer, but I didn't get it. Maybe
that was really good because I dispositionally wouldn't have worked
out well for me. And I've I really found my
stride in this other branch. And sometimes we're just not
good enough or whatever it is we're trying out for,
and we've got to be mature enough. Except that as well.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I don't know if this has ever happened, but as
a civilian, I'm wondering. So there's how many options? You
said eighteen?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
So I think there's seventeen break thic branches that cadets
can commission directly into. There are four branches in that
in the army, for example, you can't mission directly into
the Special Forces branch. You can commission into Branch A,
and then you could commission out of that you can
branch transfer to Branch B. But also the Army has
different specialties later on in their career called functional areas.
(08:20):
So for example, if I really wanted to do intel
in the army, but I got force branched into armor,
or I got my second or third choice, or was
a great branch later on in my career, if I
stand long enough, I could transition to a functional area
thirty four, if A thirty four which is strat intel.
But there are ways to get to what you want
to do in the army. And of course if you
can't get an active duty you could probably find a
National Guard reserve unit, or you might find that you
(08:42):
actually like it or good at whatever branch was you
ended up with.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So, Charlso got about a minute left for the first break.
I guess my dumb question is they open this envelope.
They'd pull out this low I'm guessing that's a brass
pin of some sort. You ever had a commit look
at it and say, I have no idea what this is.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
So now by the time there first they've been exposed
to the branches pretty good. I do think it would
be pretty funny though, to mix something in there that's
not a US branch instigia just for fun. But we
do what we can here to make it right for
the cadets.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Sounds like a great event, Charles. When come back, I
want to talk about something I'm still hearing a lot about,
and that's the challenge of transitions. Dave Chamberlain's got a
great article talking about It's called when you are no
Longer part of the machine. Folks, you can read all
this visit Havoc Journal dot com Havok Journal dot com
and we'll be back with more with Charles faith Is
(09:33):
your host, Ben Vila Garcia.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Don't forget.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
You can find over six hundred episodes of American Warrior
Radio at American Warrior Radio dot com or whatever your
favorite platform for listening to podcasts.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Welcome back to American Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen. We're
having our regular chat with Charles Faint, who's the CEO, owner,
all around good guy of the Havoc Journalists. Might go
to website for all things military and first responded. I
particularly recommended to civilians. It's a great way to get
a better understanding of what are those who protect us
at home and abroad are thinking and going through and
(10:33):
what you can do to help. Charles one of my
favorite not emerging, but I'm starting to become real pleased
with Dave Chamberlain. He writes some really good stuff and
a good way. It really makes you scratch your head
and think.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
And one of the common themes I hear on American
Warrior Radio when I have over the last decade or
so is just the challenges of transitioning from the military
to the civilian world.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Dave served thirty eight years and the Air Force and
the Air National Guard. That's a pretty long push, and
he says he was ready to go when he left,
but he just an article when you're no longer part
of the machine. He's a perfect example of what some
of these veterans are feeling. He describes it as being
comparable to phantom limb pain, and if people aren't familiar
(11:19):
with that, it's a common affliction when people have an
amputation that they still feel mentally, they still get an itch,
or they feel something in that appendage that is no
longer there and he compares that to how he feels
now being out. And I just at a really, really good,
very powerful article.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, Ben has a tendency been Dave has a tendency
to write, just like you were talking about. He's one
of our most prolific authors. I love reading his work,
and you're absolutely right, Ben, what Dave describes as the
santom limb pain of separating from the military, I think
is a very apt description that a lot of vet
can relate to, especially the post nine to eleven combat
(12:02):
and war veterans. I think that they do so much,
so hard, for so long, and they're not doing it anymore.
As a huge gap in their life, they definitely feel
something missing, They feel that phantom limb that's still with them,
but they can't use it, they can't touch it, they
can't do anything with it. And I think that's an
excellent way to frame, especially for folks who never served
(12:23):
in the military, what it's like for some bet to
leave the military.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Well, in his case, he describes so thirty eight years,
but that day did come. You know, he gets in
his car and he drives off the base and he's out.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
He's gone.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
He's no longer part right, no longer part of that
active duty tribe, and he says his biggest phantom pain,
or the first time he experienced that, in his words,
was then when his unit deployed and he felt like
he should be with them. Still.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, a lot of folks feel that way. I hear
that a lot from especially troops who get wounded and
can't go back, or who make the decision to get
out before they know that their unit's coming up on
orders to deploy, and the unit goes without them. One
of the worst things to happen in any tribe or
pack is be the one that gets left behind. I
always say, my wife and I talk about this often.
(13:13):
It is easier to be the one that goes, that's
the one that stays. I did seven deployments to Iraq
in Afghanistan, and my wife, who's also a veteran, stayed
home and take care of our kids and ran our
home front for and I think it was harder for her,
but the uncertainty and everything else that's going on versus
for me doing what I wanted to do overseas. So
(13:33):
it's hard to be that guy to see that life
goes on without You have to see that installation in
your room of mirror.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Now, Charles, you're not that long out yourself, do you.
Are you feeling any phantom pains?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Not really been, but I think it's because my life
didn't change a whole bunch. So we talked about my
job here at west Play were for the Modern Multitude.
I add that job before I retired. I retired, was
doing some stuff on my own for about a year,
and then a devillion job opened up in the Modern
War Institute, a different job than the one I had.
(14:09):
I was a deputy for a couple of years, and
I came back on and I am now the managing editor.
I work for the editor in chief of the Modern
War Institute. His name is John Ambele. I work for
John and my boss, COLONL. Sullivan's. My life hasn't changed
that much. There's actually in many ways my life has
gotten easier. I have far less responsibility now I wear
(14:30):
what I want to work. I don't have to take
the Army's ridiculous PT tests anymore, and I get to
do what I really enjoy and am good at, which
is mentoring and advising and editing and podcasting. So for me,
I have the same wife I have the same house,
I work in the same feat that all the things
(14:52):
that I did when I was on active duty. My
life hasn't changed that much. So many people lives changed
so much. They don't have that support network, They don't
have that second mission, that sense of worth after they
get out, and it's super hard for them. And I
worry about this constantly with a lot of my veteran friends,
and I'm grateful for myself and my family that I
haven't haven't had the experience.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
I tell you, Charles, one thing I'm still very worried
about is, given the way things turned out for those
Posts nine eleven or Global War on Terror, veterans who
are struggling with looking back and saying was it worth it?
And you know, the next second we're talking about people
who've lost, who lost friends and comrades and those battles
(15:35):
and are you what is your what is the pulse
you're getting about along those lines, Charles.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Well, for me personally, the way Afghanistan ended was why
I decided to leave the military. And I know this
isn't a political show, and I'm not underested talk of politics,
so we will go down that road. But I know
a lot of folks took that in particular really hard,
and of course Iraq and much better. So I think
it's hard for a lot of folks those types of
things that are happening, and they do have that exact
(16:03):
question that you're asked, then was it worth it? For me?
It was. Some veterans don't feel the same and they
can't answer in the same way. But I appreciate everything
that the military gave me. I appreciate everything America gave me.
I'm glad I served, But I think I feel differently
about my service now than I did thirty years ago
when I first started.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Would you, in good conscious recommend someone showing up now?
I mean, I'm cleverly there was a change in the wind,
I think a more positive one.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
But how do you.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Feel about I mean, this young lady who's entering the
naval Academy, I almost want to say, are you sure?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Well? I think you need to ask that of anyone
who wants to do in the military academy. You need
to ask them are they making the right choices? Are
the right choices to go to West Points? But setting
that aside, I think that to answer your question, yeah, yeah,
I recommend it. I still think it's a normal profession.
I think some of the things that I didn't like
that and careful in the military are probably going to
(17:01):
change soon. My own daughters, if they wanted to join
the military, I would encourage them to do it. But again,
as you and I talked about many times, many ways
to serve, just find what works best for you and
your family and your situation and go out and do it.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
So, speaking of service, real quick, how's the law enforcement
gig come along for you?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Oh? I'm loving that. We had a big awards ceremony
just last night the Public Safety Emergency Force over Westchester County.
What a great organization of men and women who are
really getting after it to help keep their community safe.
Could not be prouder of that organization.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
So coming back to this branch and night, real quick,
are their family members invited or it's just a cadets
and a leadership?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah? Yeah, So the west Point community is advised. In fact,
I saw a number of older children, teenagers and family
members and things like that. Because one of the unique
things about west Point that I did not experience in
RGC is how cloth a lot of the instructors are
with their families with the Cadet, really close relationship. So
(18:08):
you sponsored as a former sponsorship program here you sponsor
Cadet for four years. You get to kind of see
them grow up in the academy system and then that
exciting day of finding out what they're going to spend
probably at least the first five years of the army end.
So yeah, everybody comes there to support it, and then
as I mentioned, a huge party thereafter where the different
branches have wag and things to give out. It's great.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Okay, Charles abon taking another break, ladies and gentlemen, there's
your host, Ben Buler Garcia back with more with Charles
Fann of the Havoc Journal.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
It'sick Ground.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Just a reminder that the core mission of American Warrior
Radio is to get these important stories of inspiration, bravery,
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Speaker 5 (18:57):
Thank you, Welcome back to American Boy Radio.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Ladies, and gentlemen, this is Ben buler Garcia. We're coming
to you from the Silencer Central Studios. Adding a silence
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Begin the process by visiting silencercentral dot com to see
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eight six six six four zero three two seven zero,
(19:35):
or visit silencercentral dot com. We're doing our last check
into the year with Charles faith the head honcho of
the Havoc Journal. Might go to place for all things
military and first responder. You can visit yourself having journal
dot com. Charles, A couple of things I want to
talk about now would sort of, you know, before the break.
We're talking about whether asking whether it was worth it
(19:57):
with the way things ended up there in the Middle East,
and they're Vincent Johnson wrote an article called a Friend's
Loss in the Sandbox and he relates in the article
how he lost a couple of his buddies in an
Ied attack and that caused him to, i'll say, reevaluate
his faith. But then he remembers back that previous Christmas
(20:20):
where they're they're headed to the telephone tent I guess,
for lack of a better term, to get online to
make calls back to family during Christmas. And they began
taking incoming rocket fire, and one rocket landed right outside
that phone tent, but it didn't detonate. And they come
right around the corner, and here's the chaplain standing there
looking at this rocket that didn't go Often he thought, well,
(20:42):
maybe maybe there was a god after all. I just
don't understand him.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I remember that article, what a great piece, and mentioned
in the article that he was in the second Ntry
Division in Korea and I was there also. Based on
when he was talking about the timeline, I think I
left just before he got there. He was in a
thought unit. And it doesn't surprise me at all. That
was a very tight unit when they got over to Iraq.
And it really is. It seems like there's no ryan
(21:08):
more reason to who gets to live and who doesn't,
and why I survived all those all those trips in
folks that I knew didn't Unfortunately for me, there were
there were a few of them that didn't make it
back Compared to some of my peers who had a
much tougher deployment than I did and much deeper losses.
(21:32):
So yeah, it's always tough to deal with the loss,
especially when you're young. You think you're bulletproof and then
something happens that makes you realize you're not. Causes a
lot of reflecting. So it doesn't surprise me at all
that you go down range with these young folks two
thousand and three ish, like you was talking about in
two thousand and four in Iraq, and didn't find out
(21:53):
that sometimes it's your time. And it's really hard to
understand that a lot of surcribers guilt for a lot
of that out.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
There, Charles, I've watched Band of Brothers fifteen hundred times.
I could probably recite the dialogue better than the actors could.
And there there's are you familiar with that series? Have
you seen it?
Speaker 3 (22:11):
My daughter was watching three runs of it last night.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
There's I think it's the care Tan episode where there's
a private blythe I think it was Edward Blinthe he's
huttled down in the foxhole. You know what I'm talking about? Yes,
And you know that that captain comes along and says, look,
you know, you what you don't get is you have
to just face the fact that you're already dead, and
only in accepting that can you become what we need
(22:36):
of you as a soldier, you know, to work without
remorse and without guilt and without hesitation. And I thought,
you know, that's a heck of a thing to say.
But there seems to be some wisdom in that.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Yeah. I think that one was a little extreme, and
I'm not sure that it had the desired effect. And
the guy that's already terrified, there is some truth in
understanding where you are and what can happen. I think
that we have to be brave even when we're scared,
and anything could happen in combat. Certainly, the combat that
(23:10):
they were experiencing in World War Two is nothing like
what I experienced. I had a bunch easier and safer,
especially as the intel guy in the national level Special
Operations Task Force. I had a very different experience than
storming the beaches, etc. So I think there are ways
that we can help people understand their situation. Sometimes what
(23:31):
people need in situation like that is a little bit
of encouragement instead of some discouragement. You also don't want
people to develop this fatalistic attitude where they just assume
they're going to die. It was interesting for me, Ben
for when I was young. For whatever reason, I thought
that when I was eighteen, my life was half over,
and I was like, I thought that I was going
(23:54):
to be dead at thirty six. I had my thirty
sixth birthday on my third tour in Iraq. I thought
that I was like, all right, here's going to happen.
Now that was a long time ago, fifty two. Now,
obviously that didn't happen. But I think the closer you
are to death, the more you think about it. And
I think everyone has a different way of dealing with it.
And the way that was driving that episode is probably
(24:16):
not the way that I would have dealt with it.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
But Charles, this is going to be an awkward transition.
But one of the first conversations you and I had
here on American Radio was about your daughter's accusation that
when you were deployed in your cushy intel job, you
did nothing but spend all day playing Call of Duty. Yep,
and you actually it harked me back to an article
(24:37):
that you had published in Coffee or Die magazine in
twenty nineteen talking about a couple of buddies you lost
in the sandbox and the connection to call of duty.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah. Yeah, first point of clarification, you're honor. My daughter
was merely repeating the accusations of my wife Lilla. So
when I was with the Task Force, all of our
external were monitored as they should be, and we were
all terrified of what the rage is called being relief,
(25:08):
belief from cause, relief from the regiment. We didnt want
to get kicked out. So the only thing that I
felt safe to talk about was call of duty. What'd
you do today? Well, I can't tell you x y Z,
but I played call of duty when the pilots got back,
and so when I got back home that was the
running joke. But in the same unit I was in
where we started Call of duty and it was sixtieth.
(25:28):
The folks that you were mentioning are Damnit Cants and
John Quinland. So their nicknames that we called them were
Yardbird and Irish. I did not know them particularly well.
I did go through Greenvitune with Dan. Dan used to
beat me up a bunch on the combative with former
Special Forces. John was just a huge and great guy,
(25:53):
and both of them died in Afghanistan in Zombil in
February of two thousand and seven. I wasn't in the
one sixtieth anymore that point. I was in jaysock by them,
but I it came home to me. It was like,
oh wow, I knew these guys, and those are the
first guys that I knew more than to say hi
to that that died. Just another indicator of how high
(26:13):
risk our profession really is. They were an M forty
seven helicopters that that crashed with a bunch of rangers
in the back. Some of them lived, but unfortunately Dan
and John didn't well.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
And for people who weren't familiar to the one sixty
at the night Sockers, that pretty much they were the
exclusive transportation for our special forces. Well maybe not exclusive,
but very often they're they're at the at the tip
of the spear as well.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Absolutely right, the great unit and again I was the
intel guy. Did not fly a single helicopter, right. I
got to steer at MH forty seven when it was
taxing once or twice. But yeah, I played call of
duty with Dan. Dan with a big time call of
duty guy, ran his mouth a lot, very very tough competitor,
and that was a great unit. And fact, my wife
(27:01):
likes to say that that was her favorite unit for
us to be in, in terms of the way that
they treated me as a support guy, the way they
treated her as a spouse, the fact that I had
to try out to be in that unit, the fact
that get kicked out if you weren't meeting the standard.
What a great unit to be in some great men
and women.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
And there have been I'll tell you what made me
think of that, And not in any way similar, but
with the anniversary of the Battle of the Bulge or
any big battle anniversary, I I don't know why I
do it, but I go back and I searched our
podcast archives about people that I interviewed that you know,
(27:38):
were that fought at the Battle of the Bulge, and
you know, this year, you know, I'm looking and none
of these guys are around anymore. And I'm just thinking
about the importance of what we do and what you
do and have a journal and anybody who's got a podcast,
a military podcast or something like this that's recording those
stories forever, and you know, it's just I'm glad that
(28:03):
those men from that generation that are left are opening
up a little bit and talking more about it. But
it's just sort of a darna, you know. I just
the guy was just here, and yeah, it's sort of
a sort of a somber, somber thing.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Charles, I agree, and I think it's so important for
these stories to get written down and told and listen to.
That's one of the reasons I was so thrilled back
in the day when Marty Scoveland approached me to help
him write a book called Violence of Action about the
Ranger Regiment. So I think the the culture has changed
a lot last twenty or so years, but it's really
hard to get guys that did a lot in the
(28:42):
military to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Talk about that more when we come back from the break,
because that's a great lead. Ladier, gentlemen, Benji Lagarcia will
be right back. Welcome back to American Warrior Radio. Ladies
(29:13):
and gentlemen. There's your host, Ben bler Garci. We're doing
our last check in of the year with Charles Faint,
who's the boss at hav a Journal. Great read there,
I check it rarely visit havoc a Journal dot com.
Before the break you were talking about your father, Charles.
And there was another an article I really really enjoyed
written by Brooke Hickocks called The Civilians Military Benefit from
(29:35):
a Daughter's Perspective, and she describes growing up as the
daughter of then law enforcement officer but also a Vietnam
era veteran who did deploy, and how it was different.
I mean, she describes how she's with her dad and
they pull up behind this truck full of shady looking characters,
and as an eleven year old, she's already recording her
(29:56):
mind a detailed description of what these potential fingers look like,
which is not normal for your average eleven year old.
But a lot of it also is the fact that
her father did not speak about his time in Vietnam.
And it's just it's a really good read, a really
good write. I congratulates to Brook on that one.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
I like that one also goes to show the breadth
of authors at HAVOC. So we like our articles to
have a military law enforcement first responder nexus to it,
like this one does, but they don't have to if
it's something that I think resonates with the veteran community.
Our editor, Mike Warnock will edit it and publish it.
(30:40):
So Brooks article about being a child of a military
veteran of being a law enforcement really tracks of my
own experiences and also goes to show that our children
are always watching. We've got to be careful of what
we're exposing them to and the lessons that we're trying
to teaching them.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
I tell you one of that I pulled a couple
of quotes because I really she says, when I went
off to college, my dad told me something I've never forgotten.
They're the calmest person in the room, and never.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Trust the loudest. That's some good advice, absolutely right. Yeah,
I got to know the difference of the blowhards and
the folks that are just kind of quiet taking everything
in that are the calm ones, the self assured ones. Yeah,
and it's always good advice to watch out for everybody,
but particularly learn body language and understand what's happening when
(31:27):
things are kicking off. I think that's great invite.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
You know, one of the articles that I had the
honor of writing for having a journal talked about my
experiences at the change of command at my local base
and how you know when they thank me for what
I'm doing to support them a I consider it my duty,
so that seems a little off, But I always take
more from those events inspiration. I come out more energized,
(31:49):
and I ever ever give to them. She wraps up
her article. What she received is a civilian as a
child of a veteran, and she says, why is it
that every man in our family has worn America's uniform
at one point? Where did they get that influence? Why
is it that no one in my family has a
victim mentality? Why is it that we always stand up
for what we believe in and look for solutions versus
(32:11):
complaining who influenced us all to be leaders? We never
lived on a military base, We never had any military
benefits of the pride, work, ethic, strength, intelligence, and the
need to be ten minutes early. And of course the
one thing this whole country benefits from freedom That was
more than enough.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Powerful stuff, absolutely and a great way to end that article.
Of course, those traits aren't unique to the military, but
they are very typical of the military. Things always off
theoor indicative of how the military has largely become a
family affair. My father was in the military, my wife,
both my grandfathers, my great grandfather that was still alive
(32:48):
when I was a child, So it goes back a
long ways, and I think there are good things and
bad things about that. But I think even a couple
of years in the military really helped folks understand and
coping skills, functioning with s teamwork. One of the only
melting pots that's truly left is the military. Even in
colleges these days, people self segregate in racially or ideologically,
(33:12):
and that's really hard to do. In the military, you
kind of got to be out there with everybody. I
think that makes you help appreciate everybody is whether they're
in a career in the military.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
You know, Charles just I was at a holiday party
and the wife of the base commander. She and I
got into a conversation and it was really interesting because
she really corrected me and turned me around on a
lot of things that I thought I had a correct
perspective on, but she straightened me out. And that's one
of the other things I love about the having journal
(33:43):
articles is I may not always enjoy them. I may
have a different take as a civilian, but clearly I
haven't been there, I haven't walked in your boots. And
one of those articles was by Frank Palk. It says
what it takes to briggs the civilian military divide, and
of course, given our mission American warrior, way do I
jumped all over that looking for some valuable insights. And
(34:05):
by the way, you I mean have a journal, must
be doing pretty good. You what you rang the bellet
nasdak or.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Uh? Yeah, that was that was kind of experience. One
of the things I do in my off tine is
I do some leadership consulting work. My job here allows
me to take leave and go do that, so I
work with their leadership is the name of the company.
And they had a Veterans Day event down in New
York City and it ended up being a much bigger
(34:35):
deal than I expected. We got to do the opening
belt and as Dak down Times Square quite have a
fun event and I had a good time there.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Well, and it's just not I guess comparison that in
context with Frank's article, I want to check in with you.
We've got about five minutes left. You know what, As
a civilian, as a translator, I always come back to
the question of what what do we really owe our veterans,
and how good of a job are we as a
pavilion communities is flaying leadership doing and upholding those commitments.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Absolutely, that's a great question. But I think largely this
question is going to vary vi veteran. I'll give you
my answer, what I think other people will have a
dramatically different answer. I think that's okay. But first of all,
regarding Frank, another great, very prolific habitural author, also West
Point grad, I don't think a lot of people know
(35:26):
that about Frank, graduated class of nineteen eighty the Aviator,
very interesting perspectives on life. And with regard to what
America owes its veterans, I'm very satisfied with what America
has done for me in the veteran community. The healthcare,
the experiences I got compensated fairly as felt as an
(35:47):
officer in the army. The post nine eleven g I
Bill is certainly the most serous thing that America has
done for its veterans of my generation and maybe ever so.
I think that what America gives us the the things
that we're entitled to by our contract, Like I mentioned,
the healthcare or the education methods and stuff like that
the conversation. I think that's more than adequate. Anyone who
(36:09):
wants to do anything more than that, great, but I
certainly don't expect it. And just as an example, I
mentioned on the Facebook post about the NAZAC event, there
were some folks in Texas Roadhouse there that gave me
a bunch of tickets to give the vets for free
meals at the restaurant. Great. Thank you. I appreciate that
Texas Roadhouse. I love Texas Roadhouse, eat there every chance
(36:31):
I get. But they don't have to do that. I
don't expect that. I don't expect a military discount. I
don't expect to be treated differently if I'm stopped by
a cop because I'm speeding just because I'm a Vet.
But anything folks want to do on top of what
we're entitled to great. I think other folks, especially the
ones who've kind of had that experience with the Veterans administration,
might have a different perspective, and I think that's okay too.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Is there anything that we're missing?
Speaker 3 (36:57):
It's always hard sometimes forget that or as exhision of
politics by their means, but when politics gets in the
way of what the way we think that a war
should be run. I mentioned my feelings about the way
Afghanistan ended. That's always tough, and I think we could
always do better at that as a nation. It took
me a long time to be okay with my small
(37:17):
part in the big machine of the executive branch United
States Military, of the Knight States government, and being part
of the military. I think there's always things we could
do better. But I am satisfied with what America is
doing for our veterans right now, and I'm grateful for it,
and I think a lot of veterans foil the.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Same they did.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Charles. Has been a great conversation as usual. Just a
couple of mons left. Any updates coming down with have
a Journal or the Second Mission Foundation.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
So we're heading on to dot. Look forward to see
some of our fans and listeners out of shot show.
That's going to be a great event. My sister Kathy's
playing that one on for us. Got another book coming
out from the Second Mission, call Survive in Vietnam. I'll
be sure to send you a copy, Bend. And I
think that's about it for it. Then, looking forward to
being still again here in a couple of months.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
So who who do I have to kill to get
invited to the shot show? Or I just have to
write a check like everybody else.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
I check like everybody else. Ben, I'd love to see
you there, I.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Would, do you think it'd be advantageous?
Speaker 3 (38:15):
I think though that one for the first time last year,
and just the sheer scale of it, the people to meet.
I ran into Tim Kennedy, for example, on the escalator,
So I've been a fan of Tim Kennedy for years,
and there he is, and he turned around the escalator,
had a conversation with him. So I definitely think it's
worth going then.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
And you said, Tim, you really need to go on
American Warrior Radio. You're really, really, really buddy, you do.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
May if I run into him again this year, I'll
be sure to tell him that fair enough.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Well, We're we're focused on extending our reach this coming
year in twenty twenty five. It's it's been a good
year for us at American Warrior Radio, and I hope
it's going to get better. And of course, our mission
really is to get these messages out to everybody who
needs to hear them, and we couldn't have done it
without you. Charles and your friends at tas a Journal
were very appreciative.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Thank you, Ben, thanks for having me on the show,
and thank you for the work you do for the
vetter community. And you absolutely deserve to be on more channel,
so I look forward to hearing more about that in
the future.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Fair enough, fair enough, all right, Charles's best to you
and your family.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Thanks tame to you, Ben. There you going.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Ladies and gentlemen, don't forget. You can find over six
hundred podcasts on American Warrior Radio dot com. If you
have an idea, if you have known somebody that's got
a story to tell, please send them our way. Until
next time, all policies and procedures are remaining place.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Take care. You've been listening to American Warrior Radio.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Archived episodes maybe found at
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Americanwarriorradio dot com or your favorite podcast platform.
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