February 16, 2025 • 39 mins
“Jeep Show; A Trouper at the Battle of the Bulge” is a fictional work by author Robert B. O’Connor that sheds light on a unique and little know effort during World War II. Military Occupational Specialist Code 442 was assigned to some names you may recognize; Mickey Rooney, Sammy Davis Jr, Mel Brooks and Red Buttons. They were part of a special morale initiative to provide entertainment to troops on the front lines in areas deemed too dangerous for USO tours. Jeep Show units consisted of 3 soldiers who would provide the equivalent of a traveling vaudeville show. Because front line troops were constantly on the move, these contingents would conduct several performances a day. Robert B. O’Connor first became aware of this unique program when he was an executive with Proctor & Gamble. He was researching a failed marketing scheme led by Jim Hetzer called “The Oxydol Circus.” Hetzer’s family informed O’Connor that their father was involved with Jeep Shows during WWII. Hezter would become the basis for the fictional main character in O’Connor’s novel. Interestingly, he chose to also place the REAL Mickey Rooney in the novel. We spend some time discussing Rooney’s career and his possible motivation for volunteering during World War II. Rooney was awarded a Bronze Star for his role with the Jeep Shows. O’Connor chose to involve his main character in the Battle of Bulge, not only because it was a significant part of the war in Europe but also because it highlighted the often unrecognized role of “Team SNAFU” during that clash. Team SNAFU described the role of traditionally non-combat personnel like clerks, supply and medical personnel who were forced to take up arms in the protection of Bastogne. Jeep Show is a delightful and compelling novel that puts readers right on the front lines and introduces us to the often unheralded contributions of support troops like those who carried the 442 MOS.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
We all owe them, but very few of us know them.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
They are the men and women of our military and
first responder communities.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
And these are their stories. American Warrior Radio is on
the air.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Follow, ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to American Warrior Radio. This
is Ben Bula Garcia American Warrior Radio, broadcast from the
Slencer Central Studios. They're the nation's largest suppressor dealer, and
they're ready to make your souncer buying journey as simple
and painful as possible. Call them today at eight six
six six ' four zero three two seven zero to
get the process started, or visit Slencercentral dot com. Be
(00:47):
sure to check Souncercentral dot com to confirm if owning
a soundzer is legal in your state. It's called an
MOS a military occupational specialist code. These codes are used
to prescribe the roles and requirements of every specialist position
within that military. With hundreds of thousands of persons entering
the service during World War Two, there are a ton
of them. It is said that an army marched on
(01:09):
its stomach, so clearly there was need for MOS zero
six zero a cook. Of course, there will be plenty
of MOS seven four five's riflemen. As a civilian, it's
not my place to question the wisdom of the military.
Every member of the team contributes, but a naturally inquisitive
mind makes me want to know more about the rationale
behind and the need for the contributions of Mos. Three
(01:29):
eighty one, a watch repairman, three five eight a glass blower.
I was recently introduced to another obscure World War II
MS or four to two, and may have taken eighty
years for the folks to get credit this one I
could definitely get behind. Joining us on American Warrior Radio
today to enlighten us about this relatively unknown but critical
military occupational specialist code assigned to some soldiers during World
(01:53):
War Two is Robert B. O'Connor. He's the author of
the novel jeep Show A Trooper at the Battle of
the Bullege And just to give you a hint, in
the time, Kattle Trooper spelled trou pr Bob, Welcome to
American Way Radio.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Thanks, it's really a pleasure to be here to talk
with you, Bet and your listeners really at pleasure.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, I really got a kick out of the book. Now,
the book is a novel, but it speaks to something
that I'm guessing Robert, a lot of folks that, I mean,
everybody's heard of the USO, right, but very few people
have heard of the Morale Corps. Tell us more about them.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Sure, the Army spent a lot of time and money
on morale related programs, and they had soldiers that were
specifically assigned to the Morale Corps. Some of those soldiers
were involved with px's, some of those soldiers were involved
with distribution of movies. Some of those soldiers were involved
(02:49):
with distribution of athletic equipment. These were all rear echelon programs.
A famous Broadway director of the forties and fifties, Joshua Logan,
who directed South Pacific and Any Gets Your Gun and
other huge hits, was enlisted in the military during World
(03:09):
War Two and was put in the Morale Corps. He
realized that the frontline combat soldiers don't get a lot
of things that are in the rear at echelon, including clothing,
some of the food, some other things, certainly movies and
USO shows, and he invented the concept of the jeep show.
(03:33):
So the Jeep Show took three mos, four four twos.
Those were entertainment specialists put him in a jeep with
a driver and they would drive to just behind the
front lines, maybe a mile, and the frontline infantry would
be would be back there for a hot meal, possibly
a uniform exchange, and the entertainment soldiers would put on
(03:58):
a essential the almost a portable vaudeville show. You know,
they tell jokes, they do routines, they'd sing a little,
they'd dance a little. They would almost always pull a
soldier out of the audience. You know, who's his buddies
are saying, hey, Joe does impressions, you know, and basically,
you know, do an hour's entertainment. What I realized in
(04:24):
researching this is the show was important for these frontline
combat soldiers, but it was really the physical presence of
the entertainers that made the difference. They had come all
that way, they are putting themselves in danger. Of course,
they're under orders, they don't have any choice, but nonetheless,
(04:45):
it is the being there that I learned was the
real morale booster. There was one very famous Morale Corps soldier,
a man named Mickey Rooney. Mickey Rooney was the leading
Hollywood box office stock of nineteen thirty nine. He enlisted
in nineteen forty four. There was some public pressure for celebrities,
(05:07):
younger celebrities to enlist. But he could have done his
military service honorably at hal Roach Studios in La ten
minutes from his Beverly Hills house. Lieutenant Ronald Reagan did that,
but he chose to go all the way and go
to the European Theater of Operations and do, among many
other things, he did jeep shows.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Why do you think that was Robert? Did you have
any insight into that?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I have my own. You know, I read his autobiography
and I read a lot about him. The directors that
worked with him considered him a genius. He was a
brilliant actor. He could do slapstick. He learned to play
the banjo in one day. He was an excellent drummer,
very good at drama. But you know, with genius, where
(05:53):
there are great strengths, there are great weaknesses. And his
personal life was just completely out of control. It was
just one NonStop Hollywood party. You know. He was married
to Ava Gardner, the most beautiful woman in Hollywood, and
he cheated on her. So this is my interpretation, you know, patriotism.
(06:14):
Of course, he was a patriot, but also I thought
that unconsciously he was trying to get away from the
Hollywood lifestyle that he knew would ruin him, and he
certainly did. He was in Europe for I think eighteen months,
So that was my that's my interpretation of why he
(06:39):
did that. You know, you can also ask Jimmy Stewart.
You know, if Jimmy Stewart, the famous actor, were alive,
Jimmy Stewart chose to be a bomber pilot, which was
one of the most dangerous occupations in the war. Full
of respect for him, So Mickey Rooney was already quite famous.
Some other Morale Corps enlisted soldiers became famous after the war.
(07:04):
They include Mel Brooks, a Red Skeleton, a famous comedian
in the fifties and sixties, Burt Lancaster, Dick Van Dyke,
Bura Lives, Don Notts, and then a black soldier by
the name of Sammy Davis Junior. Then I'm not a historian,
but I'm kind of thinking that Sammy Davis Junior may
(07:28):
have been the first black man to integrate the segregated
US Army because you know, as you know, the army
was segregated in World War Two. It didn't become unsegregated
till nineteen forty nine, and Sammy Davis Junior was a
enlisted entertainer and he did jeep shows with other with
(07:49):
white soldiers. So this is my this is my idea
that Sammy Davis Junior integrated the United States Army.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Robert, we got just a couple Lensroia have to take
our first commercial break. But I'm curious. I want to
back up a little bit and tell folks how how
this project got started for you, because, as I understand,
your father served in World War Two, but you were
never in the military. These celebrities did they were they drafted?
Did they enlist? Was it kind of a mixture of
(08:21):
the two?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Or uh, celebrities in general enlisted. Some of these younger
men who were enlisted entertainers were probably drafted. The Army
was much bigger than the other services combined, much much bigger,
so the Army had to rely on the draft, so
(08:43):
I think it was probably a mix. The protagonist in
my book Jeep Show is inspired by the life of
a real person, a gentleman named who was named Jim
Hetzer and Jim Hetzer in List did voluntarily in early
nineteen forty four at the age of twenty nine. He
(09:07):
had a rock solid deferment because he had a daughter
and local draft boards were very hesitant to draft fathers
throughout the war, and yet he enlisted at age twenty nine.
And the book kind of touches on what might have
been his motivations.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Okay, Robert, Robert hold that thought. That gets us into
a new kind of a new phase of the discussion
I'd like to cover, So we'll get back to that
after the break. Lazy and gentlemen, there's your host, Ben
Vila Garcia. We're talking with Robert B. O'Connor. Check out
jeepshowbook dot com to learn more about this really really
intriguing novel based on some historical facts that many of us.
(09:47):
I consider myself pretty bright, but I've never heard of
jeep shows. We'll be right back. Welcome back to American
(10:14):
Warrior Radio.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Laser.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Gentlemen, there's your host, Ben Biler Garcia. We're talking with
Robert B. O'Connor. He's got a book out called jeep Show.
A Trooper at the Battle of Bullege. You can learn
more of as a jeepshowbook dot com. Robert is As
I kind of tease the last break, how did you
get here? Because it seems kind of an odd place
to go for a former Procter and Gamble executive.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Good question. I wrote a non fiction book a few
years ago and then thought I would like to write
another book. I started my working life at that soap
company in Cincinnati, Procter and Gamble, and I was almost
immediately sent to remedial memo writing school to learn the
(10:58):
Procter and Gamble way of writing. It was taught by
a gentleman named GiB Carrey. GiB Carrey taught us perhaps
a little bit about memo writing, but he mostly told
us about Procter and Gambled legends, and his favorite legend
was called the Oxidoll circus. In short, a circus promoter
by the name of Jim Hetzer approached GiB Carrey, who
(11:22):
was then the brand manager of the Oxidol detergent brand,
and asked him to sponsor of traveling circus. GiB Carrey agreed,
and the result was a disaster, humorous only in retrospect.
And I thought, after writing my first book that I
would write a non fiction book about the Oxidoll circus,
(11:43):
because there's some extremely funny parts of it in retrospect.
I located Jim Hetzer's daughter and called her on the phone.
She was very pleasant, and she said, oh, yes, yes,
he was a circus promoter in his later life. And
she said, but did you know that he was an
(12:03):
enlisted entertainment in World War two? And he was on
Mickey Rooney's jeep show squad And Ben, I had the
same reaction that you had when we first talked about it,
which is, I did not know that there were enlisted
entertainers in World War two, nor did I know about
jeep shows. And she added, by the way, his older sister, Mabel,
(12:25):
saved every letter Jim wrote home from training camps and
the European Theater of Operations. And I said, oh, my goodness,
could I come down to Dallas and look at them.
I'll put on, you know, archival cotton gloves and be
very careful. And she said, oh, don't worry. My sister
published them in a book, so which I ordered on Amazon.
(12:46):
You know, So I had one hundred and fifty letters
primary source. And then I managed to find on the
infinite Internet the nineteenth forty four US R. Army Guidebook
for Morale Corps soldiers. You know how to put on
the show, how to order the equipment you might need.
(13:09):
You know, the microphone you plug into the battery of
your jeep, the trailer if you want to take along
a set forty or fifty pages of you know, detailed instructions.
It's almost humorous to read, you know, here in twenty
twenty five. So I had those two primary sources, and
(13:29):
it was fascinating. So I decided the Oxidol Circus would
have to wait, and I would write about this World
War II group of soldiers and this soldier in particular,
And then I decided I wanted to get him involved
in the Battle of the Bulge. And the reason I
did was the Battle of the Bulge, as you probably know,
(13:52):
ben is the largest battle ever fought by the US Army,
and it was a turning point in the war. It
was really a last desperate gamble by Hitler, but he
put three German armies across through the Ardennes in December
of nineteen forty four and caught the Allies off guard.
(14:15):
And there was a fierce battle from December sixteenth through
January twenty fifth of nineteen forty five. I was very
interested in that, and I was very interested in writing
a story so that people that don't necessarily read nonfiction
accounts of World War Two. And there are many brilliant
(14:38):
nonfiction accounts of World War Two written by soldiers, are
written by historians, but a lot of people don't want
to read that, don't want to read that kind of nonfiction.
They want stories. And so making this a novel allowed
me to get across a lot of historically accurate information
(14:58):
about what it was like to be in the arts
me in World War Two, what it was like to
be in the Morale Corps, and then what it was
like to be one step ahead of the German Army
as they moved west, surprising everyone in late December of
nineteen forty five, and what it was like to be
in best known during the heroic defense of that city.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
So Jim Hetzer was a real person. The character in
the book is Jim Tonser. And now my two semesters
of college German might be a little bit rusty, but
Tonza is dancer. Is that you know that was on purpose.
That's one of the Eastern eggs I put in.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
And you're the first person who has mentioned that, So
congratulations been You're German paid off.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I know it would be good for something. I thought, well,
I want to come back because that's something as an
interest in me. So it is a novel, it's a
great you're a great writer. It's a very enjoyable book.
But like I said, for the draw for me was
a historical factor, maybe easter age as you call them.
And you know, it's kind of interesting to so oxidol
that was a laundry soap, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yes, very popular in the thirties, forties, fifties. It probably
still exists somewhere, but it is not a it's not
a known brand well and.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
To you know, keep that in context for people that
you know, because you think a laundery digent circus. But like,
for example, I enjoy going on YouTube and watching reruns
of for example, The Beverly Hill Abilities.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
There was actually a.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Scene where you know, Jed Klampa would sit down at
the kitchen table with you know, Granny and he'd open
up a lot of cigarette to take out a pack
of cigarettes.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
They share cigarette.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Of course he says, yeah, well, and they'd incorporate in
the show. It's like, yeah, a lucky strack is because
you know that's tobacco tastes the way just and all
that stuff was actually integrated. Many of these shows were
created just to promote a brand.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
They were funded by advertisers.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Right, and the drama is just kind of secondary. What
what was it that ended up being so disastrous about
the oxidal circus to just.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Lose my handle or fister.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Many things went wrong, but including the lions died and
I've got some bad meat and died and they had
to rent lions from Barnum and Bailey at an exorbitant price.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
But the biggest problem they had is they did Jim
Hetzer did not inform the Shriners about this traveling circus.
And as you probably know, the Shriners do a big,
big circus deal. And so if you make the Shriners mad,
(17:40):
it's very difficult, especially in the fifty years ago, it's
very difficult to get your trains unloaded, your advertisements run
upside down in the newspaper, and some of the police
are not that cooperative. So they ran into a huge
barrier with the with the with the Shriners, and GiB Carrey,
(18:04):
the brand manager, was called up to the twelfth floor
of Frocking Gamma CITSINAI we called it Valhalla back then
when I was there, and I was never up there.
And he was directed to the office of the chairman
of p G at the time, a man named Ed Harness.
And he went into Ed's office and mister Harness was
(18:28):
looking out the window at the Ohio River. He did
not turn around. He just said, mister Carrey, make it
go away, and and GiB said, yes, I will. Mister
Arnett said, got out of there as fast as he could. Rober.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
When we come back, I want to talk a little
bit more about jeep shows to inform people about this.
So the lens of your book jeep Show folks, you
can learn more of us a jeepshowbook dot com.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Welcome back to American Radio. Lasion and gentlemen, there's your host,
Ben bu La Garcia. We're coming to you from the
Silencer Central Studios. Adding a silencer will make shootings safer,
more enjoyable, and improve your accuracy. Begin the process by
visiting slencercentral dot com to see if only a sallencher
is legal in your state. They can then walk you
through the permitting process and ship right to your front door.
Call Slencher Central today at eight sixty six sixty four
(19:36):
zero three two seven zero, or visit Silencercentral dot com.
We're talking with Robert B. O'Connor. He's an author. He's
got a great book out called Jeep Show, A Trooper
at the Battle of the Bullet. You can learn more
by visiting jeepshowbook dot com. Robert, I did a little
bit of research on my own here and this you'd
mentioned before that the reason that the Morale Corps was
(19:59):
established from particularly these jeep shows he's traveling vaudeville shows,
was because, particularly at that point in the war, the
front line gis were advancing so rapidly and moving so
rapidly that they were very rarely in one place for
any length of time that you could host a quote
unquote a regular show. But this was truly truly dangerous.
I mean, you know, you said that very often they're
(20:21):
performing a show within one mile of the front and
I'm not a ballistic expert, but a good sized bullet
can easily travel a mile, not to mention mortar shells
and artillery. So there were a number of men that
performed in these jeep shows, both both in Western Europe
and the Mediterranean. I want to talk more about Mickey
Rooney because in researching him, Robert I saw he actually
(20:43):
was awarded a Bronze Star for doing these jeep shows
on the front line. Jim Tanser is a fictional character
in your novel, but Mickey Rooney certainly isn't. Did you
have were there's some legal hoops that you had to
jump through to be able to use his name.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
No, no legal hoops. First of all, there's nothing in
the book that isn't related to factual information and things
that have been published before, including by Mickey Rooney himself.
I did have a lawyer read the book to see
if I was violating anyone's trademark, and you know what
we'd have to say, so Chrysler Jeep wouldn't get upset
(21:19):
with me. But the coverage of evolving Mickey Rooney in
the story was not a legal issue.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Based on your research, how many shows a day would
these performers be doing.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
They would do up to ten shows a day the
air the geographic area that I focus on, which is
in mid December nineteen forty four, the three US divisions
were posted along the just right up next to the
German border in Luxembourg and Belgium. And as you say,
(21:50):
they had advanced way beyond the supply, you know, their
sources of supply, so they were put there to guard
the border, but they weren't going to advance until the spring,
and until the port of Antwerp had been cleared. They
were stretched pretty thin. But they had what were called
strong points along the border, so villages and hamlets, so
(22:13):
a jeep show crew could drive, you know, they could
do a show in one little village, then getting their
jeep and drive ten miles, do a show in another
little village, and so on, right up and down the border,
and then as well as in the south. So they
were very very busy, very very busy doing these shows
on the front lines.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
One of the things I really liked about your book, Robert,
is you also at the beginning of every chapter throw
on a little factoid there, and one that really made
me chuckle. It's from the book Writing for Vaudeville by
Brett Page, the Home Correspondent School, Springfield, Massachusetts, nineteen fifty
and it says, ranged in order of their value, an
(22:54):
audience will laugh loudest at these episodes. One when a
man sticks one finger into another man's eye, Two when
a man spicks ticks two fingers into another man's eye,
Three when a man chokes another man and shakes his
head from side to side, four when a man kicks
another man, and five when a man steps on another
man's foot, so long as the object of the attack
the other man is not really hurt. And you, I
(23:17):
mean this was actually a guy. They're actually training people.
I mean, I guess I can see where the Three
Stooges got it from.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Huh yeah, oh, yes, the Three Stooges, and they I'm
sure the Three Stooges started it in Vaudeville, given their ahs,
and I wanted to put that in. I read a
did a great deal of research on Vaudeville to understand
what the actual jeep show would be like, which I
detail in one of the chapters. And I did a
(23:44):
great deal of research on Bobba. When I came across
this book of you Know how to put on a
Vaudeville's show and saw that specific instruction, I realized, first
of as you said, it's it's so interesting, But second
of all, it in trast with the actual you know,
injuries and death that is so much a part of
(24:06):
being a front line combat soldier in a in an
active area. So you know, I wanted the readers to
see the contrast between the humorous pseudo violence and the
everyday dire violence that the frontline combat soldiers lived with.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
You know, I made me think of may get this wrong,
but the movie White Christmas, if I'm going to that
one y one open. I don't know if it was
a jeep show, but they were doing a performance, and
you know they had the inner performance was interrupted by
by incoming enemy fire. In your research, did any of
these ms four four to two soldiers lose their lives?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
I did not find any any loss of life. What
I found was an article saying that one group had
been surrounded and had made their way out eventually. So
I'm not from familiar with any loss of life, but
you know, as the records are not great on this
particular group of soldiers. By the way, I did see
(25:11):
White Christmas long after I had started the book. And
if your viewers want to see that, the shows the
movie starts with essentially a Hollywood version of a cheap show.
You know, they've got it pretty spiffed up. But the
idea that you know, there's a platoon or half a
company of infantry soldiers sitting on the ground watching two
(25:34):
or three entertainers, you know, do a show, is very
much right on target.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I want to learn more about this, so just it
fascinates me. And and certainly history is replete with generals
and leaders talking about the importance Oh raw, Yes, Napoleon
said morales to.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
The material as three is to one, and the US
Army believe that although they had plenty of material, And
we look in Ukraine now and we see, you know again, uh,
that morales to the material is three is to one.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Get the book, folks. It's a great read and if
you're a fan of action, you won't be disappointed either.
There's one line in there that really made me kind
of chuckle where they were talking, some of the soldiers
were talking, and one sells The main character says, well,
you're you know, you see lots of Germans moving around,
and you'll see horses pulling the German guns, and the
(26:32):
guys like Mickey Rooney says horses sounds like one of
my jockey movies. Well, then the quote is, you know,
pack horses, who says the German. The Germans have generals,
but they don't have general motors or general electric How
how important was it to get those little things and
get the lingo correct for your book?
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Well, I felt it was very important because you know,
although this this novel I think will appeal to anyone
that likes a good story, my target audience is World
War two nerds, which I became one myself in researching this,
So I put in a lot of things like that
(27:14):
that will there's sort of easter eggs that the World
War two nerds or buffs, if you will really like.
Another example of one I've heard from several World War
two buffs is there was a condition called m one
thumb in World War Two and it plagued inexperienced soldiers.
(27:37):
And like an entertainment soldier who has to then, you know,
fire his rifle in best own. The M one grand
used an eight round own block clip and to load it,
you jammed this clip down into the rifles magazine. When
you did that, the bolt of the rifle would spring
back very quickly, and if you're thumb was trailing in
(28:02):
the way of the bolt, you would get a very
painful injury on your thumb, and your thumbnail would be
black and blue for about a month. So I have
in one scene Jim, Jim is getting they're getting instructions
how to use the rifle, and the sergeant says you
and I know you love your M one rifle. And
(28:24):
Jim looks down at his bruised thumb and then thinks,
I do not love my M one rifle.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I tell you I still use the word swell, so
you can feel good about that. Only come back. I'd
like to talk a little bit more about the Battle
of Bulge and the ending of the book. Ladies and gentlemen,
don't forget. You can find over six hundred podcasts at
American Warrior Radio dot com. We'll be right back with
more with Robert B. O'Connor. Stick around, Welcome back to
(29:20):
American Warrior Radio. Lasion and gentlemen. There's your hosts. Ben
Butler Dar Say. We're talking about the book jeep show. Well,
not so much about the book, but the research and
the ideas behind it. It was written by Robert B. O'Connor.
It's a novel. It's a fictional story, although it does
include one real character who I'm sure you've heard of
Mickey Rooney, But basically the main character of this book, Robert,
(29:40):
is an entertainer. He's a dancer if he will, and
he's recruited or ordered to be part of these jeep
shows that would go and entertain frontline troops and they
get caught up in the Battle of Bulge. And I
mean our timing here, you know, we're right around the
window right now, Robert, where it's the eightieth anniversary of that. Yes,
(30:00):
just that terrible battle. I've had one, two, three people
who participated in that battle were caught up in that battle.
I mean the descriptions experiences that Jim goes through at
the Battle of the Bulge, from what I've heard and read,
I mean, it's pretty pretty darn accurate.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Robert.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Did you talk to other veterans or experience that that battle.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
I read accounts by veterans that experience. And by the way,
it's not although now we've lost so many veterans just
to old age, but it would not be uncommon, you know,
even fIF ten or fifteen years ago, to run into
a veteran who had been involved with the Battle of
the Bulge, or somebody's father who had been involved with
the Battle of the Bulge, because it was such a
(30:44):
massive battle involving so many soldiers. So I did read
accounts of first stand accounts from veterans, and then there's
been several excellent nonfiction books, even going down to the
company level. So I read a great deal ben research
(31:05):
is fun and writing is hard, so I may have
actually spent too much time researching it, but I read
a great deal about it and did read first plenty
of first hand accounts, but I did not talk to
any veterans of the actual battle.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Well, if I'm not mistaken, Robert, the Band of Brothers,
at least two episodes were dedicated to that battle when
they were surrounded there, just outside of best Stone. I
might be wrong about that.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
You're correct, and interestingly, and the book does tell this story.
The Germans attacked with three armies. The army in the
middle was the only one that made a lot of progress.
And so the protagonist, Jim Tanzer, is right in the middle,
and he is staying ahead of the Germans by about
(31:58):
half a mile. He keeps getting order to fall back
with various letters and captured maps and all of that.
So he's about half a mile ahead of the Germans
the whole time, but the places he stops are historically
significant in the bow of the bulls. So he retreats
from the front line. He stops at a Luxembourg little
(32:19):
city called claire Vaux. Well that that was where the
battalion of the one hundred and first Battalion was and
they had a holding action there and then were overwhelmed
by the Germans. He retreats from there to a crossroads
where the road west from Clairevaux meets the road to
best Stone and he meets Team Cherry there, and Team
Cherry was an ad hoc group put there as a
(32:43):
roadblock to buy time for the one hundred and first
Airborne to get into best zone. And then he retreats
to Longville, and Longville was overwhelmed and finally he finds
himself in best doone. And interestingly, and this is something
again not many people know about. The one hundred and
first had gotten to best oone and the one hundred
(33:04):
and first did you know, gallant, brilliant service. They were
great fighters and had very high morale. The other soldiers
that made it into best oone were you know, stragglers
from infantry companies that had been overwhelmed or they were
rear echelon soldiers, barbers, telephone operators, maybe even a watch repairman, yes,
(33:25):
maybe even a watch repairman. And then one entertainment soldier
by the name of Jim Tanzer. And they were organized
into Team Snafu Situation normal all ft up, and they
were put in combat situations to fill in some of
the gaps between the four regiments. Airborne divisions have four regiments,
(33:49):
not three, so they the four regiments made a square
around best Own and they used Team snaff who soldiers
to fill in the gaps. And so these unsung, you know,
inexperienced combat soldiers were an important factor in the defensive
best and the protagonist gets put in Team Snafu and
(34:12):
does various.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Things coming back to Band of Brothers or the one
of the final episodes was was titled Points. There were
points that people, the soldiers built up and you'd get,
you know, extra points for combat or extra points for
a purple heart or whatever it might be. And then
when when the war in Europe came to an end,
that determined who got to be sent home first, if
(34:34):
you had enough points or you didn't, and that that
kind of comes up with with Jim Tonser as well.
He saw combat, but nobody recognized that as almost right,
and that was actually based on real research. For enlisted infantry,
the coveted.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Decoration was the infantry soldier's badge, and they liked it because,
as I say in the book, it was the only
medal that officers couldn't give each other. So you were
so you should get if you were involved as an
infantryman in battle, you should get that. But the army
did not give that to the team snafoo soldiers that
(35:11):
were not infantry, you know, paperwork whatever. So Jim is
pretty frosted about that. He also is wounded, I won't
say how lightly wounded. So he also deserves a purple heart,
which he doesn't get. Uh, And these would have given
him points to get home sooner. As you can imagine,
(35:35):
there probably was what seven million soldiers in Europe when
the war ended, and there weren't enough ships to get
them home in any kind of hurry. So the army
developed the point system, and as you said, you would
get points for your time overseas, you would get points
(35:55):
for any medals you'd wont campaigns. Importantly, you would also
get a point if you had depended children, which Jim
had won, so he did get home before some. But yes,
that was a system, and they're actually remembered these Unlike
the Germans or even the British, and certainly the Japanese,
(36:16):
the American soldiers were citizen soldiers. You know, they voted
in elections while they were overseas. Their wives and parents
wrote angry letters to their congressmen about you know, different things.
They were citizen soldiers, so they actually started to protest
in occupied Germany and other places and had pickets, you know,
(36:38):
demanding to be sent home. But it did depend on
the point system. My father, who did not have that
many points, was sent to the south of France for
the year to go to some kind of school the
army had cooked up to wait for his term to
get home.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
That might not have been bad duty.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
No, no, not at all, Robert.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I really enjoyed the book.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Folks.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Check out jeepshowbook dot com. The name of the book
is Jeepshow A Trooper at the Battle of the Bullet.
We're down at just two minutes, rubber. But I saw
an interview you did, and it fascinated me because it
kind of sort of has to do with the book,
but is broader than that. And yeah, you said, if
we're going to have a decent life, we have to
know when to turn and fight.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely that you know. A sub theme
of the book that you've picked up on is the
main character, Jim Tanzer, is retreating and retreating and retreating,
and to some extent I formulated in his life. Before
he joined the army, he was in general kind of
(37:41):
retreating and retreating and retreating from things. But when he
gets the best known, he turns and fights. And for me,
a life lesson is.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
You can't fight all you know. You have to know.
You have to know when you're in a situation where
you have to turn and fight, and you know. And
when I say fight, in most of our it doesn't
mean with a gun or your fists. It means digging
in and doing the hard thing. And I was very
motivated with my first book by a quote from Thomas Huxley.
(38:15):
He said, the most valuable result of all education is
the ability to make yourself do the thing you have
to do when it has to be done, whether you
like it or not. And that's what happened to Jim
tanz Or. By the time he got the best known,
he had to do the hard thing and he did
it well.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Well, I'll tell you what, Like I said, I really
enjoyed the book. I encouraged our listeners to read it,
you know, at the time, and made me think. Or
We had a young man on several years ago by
the name of Jason Burt. He was the grandson of
Richard Burton. When his Grandfrother died, he found all these
albums up in the attic, and it turns out his
grandfather served in a seven forty sixth for East Air
(38:55):
Force band that on the Pacific side of the war
actually went out and performed concerts on the front lines
in the Pacific, and you got you know, your book
made me think very much about that. So Robert, thank
you for your time today, and maybe we'll hear from
you again soon.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yes, I'll let you know when I've done the sequel
about the Korean War. It's really been an honor. Thank
you so much.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Upstanding There you go, ladies and gentlemen, don't forget to
share these stories with your other friends and associates. You
can find over six hundred podcasts and American Warrior radio
dot com. Of course, the most recent episodes are on
whatever your favorite podcast platform.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Look for us there.
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Until next time, Paul policies and procedures are remain in place.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Take care you've been listening to American Warrior Radio.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Archived episodes may be found at americanwarriorradio dot com or
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We all owe them, but very few of us know them.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
They are the men and women of our military and
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And these are their stories. American Warrior Radio is on
the air.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Follow, ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to American Warrior Radio. This
is Ben Bula Garcia American Warrior Radio, broadcast from the
Slencer Central Studios. They're the nation's largest suppressor dealer, and
they're ready to make your souncer buying journey as simple
and painful as possible. Call them today at eight six
six six ' four zero three two seven zero to
get the process started, or visit Slencercentral dot com. Be
(00:47):
sure to check Souncercentral dot com to confirm if owning
a soundzer is legal in your state. It's called an
MOS a military occupational specialist code. These codes are used
to prescribe the roles and requirements of every specialist position
within that military. With hundreds of thousands of persons entering
the service during World War Two, there are a ton
of them. It is said that an army marched on
(01:09):
its stomach, so clearly there was need for MOS zero
six zero a cook. Of course, there will be plenty
of MOS seven four five's riflemen. As a civilian, it's
not my place to question the wisdom of the military.
Every member of the team contributes, but a naturally inquisitive
mind makes me want to know more about the rationale
behind and the need for the contributions of Mos. Three
(01:29):
eighty one, a watch repairman, three five eight a glass blower.
I was recently introduced to another obscure World War II
MS or four to two, and may have taken eighty
years for the folks to get credit this one I
could definitely get behind. Joining us on American Warrior Radio
today to enlighten us about this relatively unknown but critical
military occupational specialist code assigned to some soldiers during World
(01:53):
War Two is Robert B. O'Connor. He's the author of
the novel jeep Show A Trooper at the Battle of
the Bullege And just to give you a hint, in
the time, Kattle Trooper spelled trou pr Bob, Welcome to
American Way Radio.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Thanks, it's really a pleasure to be here to talk
with you, Bet and your listeners really at pleasure.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, I really got a kick out of the book. Now,
the book is a novel, but it speaks to something
that I'm guessing Robert, a lot of folks that, I mean,
everybody's heard of the USO, right, but very few people
have heard of the Morale Corps. Tell us more about them.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Sure, the Army spent a lot of time and money
on morale related programs, and they had soldiers that were
specifically assigned to the Morale Corps. Some of those soldiers
were involved with px's, some of those soldiers were involved
with distribution of movies. Some of those soldiers were involved
(02:49):
with distribution of athletic equipment. These were all rear echelon programs.
A famous Broadway director of the forties and fifties, Joshua Logan,
who directed South Pacific and Any Gets Your Gun and
other huge hits, was enlisted in the military during World
(03:09):
War Two and was put in the Morale Corps. He
realized that the frontline combat soldiers don't get a lot
of things that are in the rear at echelon, including clothing,
some of the food, some other things, certainly movies and
USO shows, and he invented the concept of the jeep show.
(03:33):
So the Jeep Show took three mos, four four twos.
Those were entertainment specialists put him in a jeep with
a driver and they would drive to just behind the
front lines, maybe a mile, and the frontline infantry would
be would be back there for a hot meal, possibly
a uniform exchange, and the entertainment soldiers would put on
(03:58):
a essential the almost a portable vaudeville show. You know,
they tell jokes, they do routines, they'd sing a little,
they'd dance a little. They would almost always pull a
soldier out of the audience. You know, who's his buddies
are saying, hey, Joe does impressions, you know, and basically,
you know, do an hour's entertainment. What I realized in
(04:24):
researching this is the show was important for these frontline
combat soldiers, but it was really the physical presence of
the entertainers that made the difference. They had come all
that way, they are putting themselves in danger. Of course,
they're under orders, they don't have any choice, but nonetheless,
(04:45):
it is the being there that I learned was the
real morale booster. There was one very famous Morale Corps soldier,
a man named Mickey Rooney. Mickey Rooney was the leading
Hollywood box office stock of nineteen thirty nine. He enlisted
in nineteen forty four. There was some public pressure for celebrities,
(05:07):
younger celebrities to enlist. But he could have done his
military service honorably at hal Roach Studios in La ten
minutes from his Beverly Hills house. Lieutenant Ronald Reagan did that,
but he chose to go all the way and go
to the European Theater of Operations and do, among many
other things, he did jeep shows.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Why do you think that was Robert? Did you have
any insight into that?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I have my own. You know, I read his autobiography
and I read a lot about him. The directors that
worked with him considered him a genius. He was a
brilliant actor. He could do slapstick. He learned to play
the banjo in one day. He was an excellent drummer,
very good at drama. But you know, with genius, where
(05:53):
there are great strengths, there are great weaknesses. And his
personal life was just completely out of control. It was
just one NonStop Hollywood party. You know. He was married
to Ava Gardner, the most beautiful woman in Hollywood, and
he cheated on her. So this is my interpretation, you know, patriotism.
(06:14):
Of course, he was a patriot, but also I thought
that unconsciously he was trying to get away from the
Hollywood lifestyle that he knew would ruin him, and he
certainly did. He was in Europe for I think eighteen months,
So that was my that's my interpretation of why he
(06:39):
did that. You know, you can also ask Jimmy Stewart.
You know, if Jimmy Stewart, the famous actor, were alive,
Jimmy Stewart chose to be a bomber pilot, which was
one of the most dangerous occupations in the war. Full
of respect for him, So Mickey Rooney was already quite famous.
Some other Morale Corps enlisted soldiers became famous after the war.
(07:04):
They include Mel Brooks, a Red Skeleton, a famous comedian
in the fifties and sixties, Burt Lancaster, Dick Van Dyke,
Bura Lives, Don Notts, and then a black soldier by
the name of Sammy Davis Junior. Then I'm not a historian,
but I'm kind of thinking that Sammy Davis Junior may
(07:28):
have been the first black man to integrate the segregated
US Army because you know, as you know, the army
was segregated in World War Two. It didn't become unsegregated
till nineteen forty nine, and Sammy Davis Junior was a
enlisted entertainer and he did jeep shows with other with
(07:49):
white soldiers. So this is my this is my idea
that Sammy Davis Junior integrated the United States Army.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Robert, we got just a couple Lensroia have to take
our first commercial break. But I'm curious. I want to
back up a little bit and tell folks how how
this project got started for you, because, as I understand,
your father served in World War Two, but you were
never in the military. These celebrities did they were they drafted?
Did they enlist? Was it kind of a mixture of
(08:21):
the two?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Or uh, celebrities in general enlisted. Some of these younger
men who were enlisted entertainers were probably drafted. The Army
was much bigger than the other services combined, much much bigger,
so the Army had to rely on the draft, so
(08:43):
I think it was probably a mix. The protagonist in
my book Jeep Show is inspired by the life of
a real person, a gentleman named who was named Jim
Hetzer and Jim Hetzer in List did voluntarily in early
nineteen forty four at the age of twenty nine. He
(09:07):
had a rock solid deferment because he had a daughter
and local draft boards were very hesitant to draft fathers
throughout the war, and yet he enlisted at age twenty nine.
And the book kind of touches on what might have
been his motivations.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Okay, Robert, Robert hold that thought. That gets us into
a new kind of a new phase of the discussion
I'd like to cover, So we'll get back to that
after the break. Lazy and gentlemen, there's your host, Ben
Vila Garcia. We're talking with Robert B. O'Connor. Check out
jeepshowbook dot com to learn more about this really really
intriguing novel based on some historical facts that many of us.
(09:47):
I consider myself pretty bright, but I've never heard of
jeep shows. We'll be right back. Welcome back to American
(10:14):
Warrior Radio.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Laser.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Gentlemen, there's your host, Ben Biler Garcia. We're talking with
Robert B. O'Connor. He's got a book out called jeep Show.
A Trooper at the Battle of Bullege. You can learn
more of as a jeepshowbook dot com. Robert is As
I kind of tease the last break, how did you
get here? Because it seems kind of an odd place
to go for a former Procter and Gamble executive.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Good question. I wrote a non fiction book a few
years ago and then thought I would like to write
another book. I started my working life at that soap
company in Cincinnati, Procter and Gamble, and I was almost
immediately sent to remedial memo writing school to learn the
(10:58):
Procter and Gamble way of writing. It was taught by
a gentleman named GiB Carrey. GiB Carrey taught us perhaps
a little bit about memo writing, but he mostly told
us about Procter and Gambled legends, and his favorite legend
was called the Oxidoll circus. In short, a circus promoter
by the name of Jim Hetzer approached GiB Carrey, who
(11:22):
was then the brand manager of the Oxidol detergent brand,
and asked him to sponsor of traveling circus. GiB Carrey agreed,
and the result was a disaster, humorous only in retrospect.
And I thought, after writing my first book that I
would write a non fiction book about the Oxidoll circus,
(11:43):
because there's some extremely funny parts of it in retrospect.
I located Jim Hetzer's daughter and called her on the phone.
She was very pleasant, and she said, oh, yes, yes,
he was a circus promoter in his later life. And
she said, but did you know that he was an
(12:03):
enlisted entertainment in World War two? And he was on
Mickey Rooney's jeep show squad And Ben, I had the
same reaction that you had when we first talked about it,
which is, I did not know that there were enlisted
entertainers in World War two, nor did I know about
jeep shows. And she added, by the way, his older sister, Mabel,
(12:25):
saved every letter Jim wrote home from training camps and
the European Theater of Operations. And I said, oh, my goodness,
could I come down to Dallas and look at them.
I'll put on, you know, archival cotton gloves and be
very careful. And she said, oh, don't worry. My sister
published them in a book, so which I ordered on Amazon.
(12:46):
You know, So I had one hundred and fifty letters
primary source. And then I managed to find on the
infinite Internet the nineteenth forty four US R. Army Guidebook
for Morale Corps soldiers. You know how to put on
the show, how to order the equipment you might need.
(13:09):
You know, the microphone you plug into the battery of
your jeep, the trailer if you want to take along
a set forty or fifty pages of you know, detailed instructions.
It's almost humorous to read, you know, here in twenty
twenty five. So I had those two primary sources, and
(13:29):
it was fascinating. So I decided the Oxidol Circus would
have to wait, and I would write about this World
War II group of soldiers and this soldier in particular,
And then I decided I wanted to get him involved
in the Battle of the Bulge. And the reason I
did was the Battle of the Bulge, as you probably know,
(13:52):
ben is the largest battle ever fought by the US Army,
and it was a turning point in the war. It
was really a last desperate gamble by Hitler, but he
put three German armies across through the Ardennes in December
of nineteen forty four and caught the Allies off guard.
(14:15):
And there was a fierce battle from December sixteenth through
January twenty fifth of nineteen forty five. I was very
interested in that, and I was very interested in writing
a story so that people that don't necessarily read nonfiction
accounts of World War Two. And there are many brilliant
(14:38):
nonfiction accounts of World War Two written by soldiers, are
written by historians, but a lot of people don't want
to read that, don't want to read that kind of nonfiction.
They want stories. And so making this a novel allowed
me to get across a lot of historically accurate information
(14:58):
about what it was like to be in the arts
me in World War Two, what it was like to
be in the Morale Corps, and then what it was
like to be one step ahead of the German Army
as they moved west, surprising everyone in late December of
nineteen forty five, and what it was like to be
in best known during the heroic defense of that city.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
So Jim Hetzer was a real person. The character in
the book is Jim Tonser. And now my two semesters
of college German might be a little bit rusty, but
Tonza is dancer. Is that you know that was on purpose.
That's one of the Eastern eggs I put in.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
And you're the first person who has mentioned that, So
congratulations been You're German paid off.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I know it would be good for something. I thought, well,
I want to come back because that's something as an
interest in me. So it is a novel, it's a
great you're a great writer. It's a very enjoyable book.
But like I said, for the draw for me was
a historical factor, maybe easter age as you call them.
And you know, it's kind of interesting to so oxidol
that was a laundry soap, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yes, very popular in the thirties, forties, fifties. It probably
still exists somewhere, but it is not a it's not
a known brand well and.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
To you know, keep that in context for people that
you know, because you think a laundery digent circus. But like,
for example, I enjoy going on YouTube and watching reruns
of for example, The Beverly Hill Abilities.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
There was actually a.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Scene where you know, Jed Klampa would sit down at
the kitchen table with you know, Granny and he'd open
up a lot of cigarette to take out a pack
of cigarettes.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
They share cigarette.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Of course he says, yeah, well, and they'd incorporate in
the show. It's like, yeah, a lucky strack is because
you know that's tobacco tastes the way just and all
that stuff was actually integrated. Many of these shows were
created just to promote a brand.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
They were funded by advertisers.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Right, and the drama is just kind of secondary. What
what was it that ended up being so disastrous about
the oxidal circus to just.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Lose my handle or fister.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Many things went wrong, but including the lions died and
I've got some bad meat and died and they had
to rent lions from Barnum and Bailey at an exorbitant price.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
But the biggest problem they had is they did Jim
Hetzer did not inform the Shriners about this traveling circus.
And as you probably know, the Shriners do a big,
big circus deal. And so if you make the Shriners mad,
(17:40):
it's very difficult, especially in the fifty years ago, it's
very difficult to get your trains unloaded, your advertisements run
upside down in the newspaper, and some of the police
are not that cooperative. So they ran into a huge
barrier with the with the with the Shriners, and GiB Carrey,
(18:04):
the brand manager, was called up to the twelfth floor
of Frocking Gamma CITSINAI we called it Valhalla back then
when I was there, and I was never up there.
And he was directed to the office of the chairman
of p G at the time, a man named Ed Harness.
And he went into Ed's office and mister Harness was
(18:28):
looking out the window at the Ohio River. He did
not turn around. He just said, mister Carrey, make it
go away, and and GiB said, yes, I will. Mister
Arnett said, got out of there as fast as he could. Rober.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
When we come back, I want to talk a little
bit more about jeep shows to inform people about this.
So the lens of your book jeep Show folks, you
can learn more of us a jeepshowbook dot com.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Welcome back to American Radio. Lasion and gentlemen, there's your host,
Ben bu La Garcia. We're coming to you from the
Silencer Central Studios. Adding a silencer will make shootings safer,
more enjoyable, and improve your accuracy. Begin the process by
visiting slencercentral dot com to see if only a sallencher
is legal in your state. They can then walk you
through the permitting process and ship right to your front door.
Call Slencher Central today at eight sixty six sixty four
(19:36):
zero three two seven zero, or visit Silencercentral dot com.
We're talking with Robert B. O'Connor. He's an author. He's
got a great book out called Jeep Show, A Trooper
at the Battle of the Bullet. You can learn more
by visiting jeepshowbook dot com. Robert, I did a little
bit of research on my own here and this you'd
mentioned before that the reason that the Morale Corps was
(19:59):
established from particularly these jeep shows he's traveling vaudeville shows,
was because, particularly at that point in the war, the
front line gis were advancing so rapidly and moving so
rapidly that they were very rarely in one place for
any length of time that you could host a quote
unquote a regular show. But this was truly truly dangerous.
I mean, you know, you said that very often they're
(20:21):
performing a show within one mile of the front and
I'm not a ballistic expert, but a good sized bullet
can easily travel a mile, not to mention mortar shells
and artillery. So there were a number of men that
performed in these jeep shows, both both in Western Europe
and the Mediterranean. I want to talk more about Mickey
Rooney because in researching him, Robert I saw he actually
(20:43):
was awarded a Bronze Star for doing these jeep shows
on the front line. Jim Tanser is a fictional character
in your novel, but Mickey Rooney certainly isn't. Did you
have were there's some legal hoops that you had to
jump through to be able to use his name.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
No, no legal hoops. First of all, there's nothing in
the book that isn't related to factual information and things
that have been published before, including by Mickey Rooney himself.
I did have a lawyer read the book to see
if I was violating anyone's trademark, and you know what
we'd have to say, so Chrysler Jeep wouldn't get upset
(21:19):
with me. But the coverage of evolving Mickey Rooney in
the story was not a legal issue.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Based on your research, how many shows a day would
these performers be doing.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
They would do up to ten shows a day the
air the geographic area that I focus on, which is
in mid December nineteen forty four, the three US divisions
were posted along the just right up next to the
German border in Luxembourg and Belgium. And as you say,
(21:50):
they had advanced way beyond the supply, you know, their
sources of supply, so they were put there to guard
the border, but they weren't going to advance until the spring,
and until the port of Antwerp had been cleared. They
were stretched pretty thin. But they had what were called
strong points along the border, so villages and hamlets, so
(22:13):
a jeep show crew could drive, you know, they could
do a show in one little village, then getting their
jeep and drive ten miles, do a show in another
little village, and so on, right up and down the border,
and then as well as in the south. So they
were very very busy, very very busy doing these shows
on the front lines.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
One of the things I really liked about your book, Robert,
is you also at the beginning of every chapter throw
on a little factoid there, and one that really made
me chuckle. It's from the book Writing for Vaudeville by
Brett Page, the Home Correspondent School, Springfield, Massachusetts, nineteen fifty
and it says, ranged in order of their value, an
(22:54):
audience will laugh loudest at these episodes. One when a
man sticks one finger into another man's eye, Two when
a man spicks ticks two fingers into another man's eye,
Three when a man chokes another man and shakes his
head from side to side, four when a man kicks
another man, and five when a man steps on another
man's foot, so long as the object of the attack
the other man is not really hurt. And you, I
(23:17):
mean this was actually a guy. They're actually training people.
I mean, I guess I can see where the Three
Stooges got it from.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Huh yeah, oh, yes, the Three Stooges, and they I'm
sure the Three Stooges started it in Vaudeville, given their ahs,
and I wanted to put that in. I read a
did a great deal of research on Vaudeville to understand
what the actual jeep show would be like, which I
detail in one of the chapters. And I did a
(23:44):
great deal of research on Bobba. When I came across
this book of you Know how to put on a
Vaudeville's show and saw that specific instruction, I realized, first
of as you said, it's it's so interesting, But second
of all, it in trast with the actual you know,
injuries and death that is so much a part of
(24:06):
being a front line combat soldier in a in an
active area. So you know, I wanted the readers to
see the contrast between the humorous pseudo violence and the
everyday dire violence that the frontline combat soldiers lived with.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
You know, I made me think of may get this wrong,
but the movie White Christmas, if I'm going to that
one y one open. I don't know if it was
a jeep show, but they were doing a performance, and
you know they had the inner performance was interrupted by
by incoming enemy fire. In your research, did any of
these ms four four to two soldiers lose their lives?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
I did not find any any loss of life. What
I found was an article saying that one group had
been surrounded and had made their way out eventually. So
I'm not from familiar with any loss of life, but
you know, as the records are not great on this
particular group of soldiers. By the way, I did see
(25:11):
White Christmas long after I had started the book. And
if your viewers want to see that, the shows the
movie starts with essentially a Hollywood version of a cheap show.
You know, they've got it pretty spiffed up. But the
idea that you know, there's a platoon or half a
company of infantry soldiers sitting on the ground watching two
(25:34):
or three entertainers, you know, do a show, is very
much right on target.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I want to learn more about this, so just it
fascinates me. And and certainly history is replete with generals
and leaders talking about the importance Oh raw, Yes, Napoleon
said morales to.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
The material as three is to one, and the US
Army believe that although they had plenty of material, And
we look in Ukraine now and we see, you know again, uh,
that morales to the material is three is to one.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Get the book, folks. It's a great read and if
you're a fan of action, you won't be disappointed either.
There's one line in there that really made me kind
of chuckle where they were talking, some of the soldiers
were talking, and one sells The main character says, well,
you're you know, you see lots of Germans moving around,
and you'll see horses pulling the German guns, and the
(26:32):
guys like Mickey Rooney says horses sounds like one of
my jockey movies. Well, then the quote is, you know,
pack horses, who says the German. The Germans have generals,
but they don't have general motors or general electric How
how important was it to get those little things and
get the lingo correct for your book?
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Well, I felt it was very important because you know,
although this this novel I think will appeal to anyone
that likes a good story, my target audience is World
War two nerds, which I became one myself in researching this,
So I put in a lot of things like that
(27:14):
that will there's sort of easter eggs that the World
War two nerds or buffs, if you will really like.
Another example of one I've heard from several World War
two buffs is there was a condition called m one
thumb in World War Two and it plagued inexperienced soldiers.
(27:37):
And like an entertainment soldier who has to then, you know,
fire his rifle in best own. The M one grand
used an eight round own block clip and to load it,
you jammed this clip down into the rifles magazine. When
you did that, the bolt of the rifle would spring
back very quickly, and if you're thumb was trailing in
(28:02):
the way of the bolt, you would get a very
painful injury on your thumb, and your thumbnail would be
black and blue for about a month. So I have
in one scene Jim, Jim is getting they're getting instructions
how to use the rifle, and the sergeant says you
and I know you love your M one rifle. And
(28:24):
Jim looks down at his bruised thumb and then thinks,
I do not love my M one rifle.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I tell you I still use the word swell, so
you can feel good about that. Only come back. I'd
like to talk a little bit more about the Battle
of Bulge and the ending of the book. Ladies and gentlemen,
don't forget. You can find over six hundred podcasts at
American Warrior Radio dot com. We'll be right back with
more with Robert B. O'Connor. Stick around, Welcome back to
(29:20):
American Warrior Radio. Lasion and gentlemen. There's your hosts. Ben
Butler Dar Say. We're talking about the book jeep show. Well,
not so much about the book, but the research and
the ideas behind it. It was written by Robert B. O'Connor.
It's a novel. It's a fictional story, although it does
include one real character who I'm sure you've heard of
Mickey Rooney, But basically the main character of this book, Robert,
(29:40):
is an entertainer. He's a dancer if he will, and
he's recruited or ordered to be part of these jeep
shows that would go and entertain frontline troops and they
get caught up in the Battle of Bulge. And I
mean our timing here, you know, we're right around the
window right now, Robert, where it's the eightieth anniversary of that. Yes,
(30:00):
just that terrible battle. I've had one, two, three people
who participated in that battle were caught up in that battle.
I mean the descriptions experiences that Jim goes through at
the Battle of the Bulge, from what I've heard and read,
I mean, it's pretty pretty darn accurate.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Robert.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Did you talk to other veterans or experience that that battle.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
I read accounts by veterans that experience. And by the way,
it's not although now we've lost so many veterans just
to old age, but it would not be uncommon, you know,
even fIF ten or fifteen years ago, to run into
a veteran who had been involved with the Battle of
the Bulge, or somebody's father who had been involved with
the Battle of the Bulge, because it was such a
(30:44):
massive battle involving so many soldiers. So I did read
accounts of first stand accounts from veterans, and then there's
been several excellent nonfiction books, even going down to the
company level. So I read a great deal ben research
(31:05):
is fun and writing is hard, so I may have
actually spent too much time researching it, but I read
a great deal about it and did read first plenty
of first hand accounts, but I did not talk to
any veterans of the actual battle.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Well, if I'm not mistaken, Robert, the Band of Brothers,
at least two episodes were dedicated to that battle when
they were surrounded there, just outside of best Stone. I
might be wrong about that.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
You're correct, and interestingly, and the book does tell this story.
The Germans attacked with three armies. The army in the
middle was the only one that made a lot of progress.
And so the protagonist, Jim Tanzer, is right in the middle,
and he is staying ahead of the Germans by about
(31:58):
half a mile. He keeps getting order to fall back
with various letters and captured maps and all of that.
So he's about half a mile ahead of the Germans
the whole time, but the places he stops are historically
significant in the bow of the bulls. So he retreats
from the front line. He stops at a Luxembourg little
(32:19):
city called claire Vaux. Well that that was where the
battalion of the one hundred and first Battalion was and
they had a holding action there and then were overwhelmed
by the Germans. He retreats from there to a crossroads
where the road west from Clairevaux meets the road to
best Stone and he meets Team Cherry there, and Team
Cherry was an ad hoc group put there as a
(32:43):
roadblock to buy time for the one hundred and first
Airborne to get into best zone. And then he retreats
to Longville, and Longville was overwhelmed and finally he finds
himself in best doone. And interestingly, and this is something
again not many people know about. The one hundred and
first had gotten to best oone and the one hundred
(33:04):
and first did you know, gallant, brilliant service. They were
great fighters and had very high morale. The other soldiers
that made it into best oone were you know, stragglers
from infantry companies that had been overwhelmed or they were
rear echelon soldiers, barbers, telephone operators, maybe even a watch repairman, yes,
(33:25):
maybe even a watch repairman. And then one entertainment soldier
by the name of Jim Tanzer. And they were organized
into Team Snafu Situation normal all ft up, and they
were put in combat situations to fill in some of
the gaps between the four regiments. Airborne divisions have four regiments,
(33:49):
not three, so they the four regiments made a square
around best Own and they used Team snaff who soldiers
to fill in the gaps. And so these unsung, you know,
inexperienced combat soldiers were an important factor in the defensive
best and the protagonist gets put in Team Snafu and
(34:12):
does various.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Things coming back to Band of Brothers or the one
of the final episodes was was titled Points. There were
points that people, the soldiers built up and you'd get,
you know, extra points for combat or extra points for
a purple heart or whatever it might be. And then
when when the war in Europe came to an end,
that determined who got to be sent home first, if
(34:34):
you had enough points or you didn't, and that that
kind of comes up with with Jim Tonser as well.
He saw combat, but nobody recognized that as almost right,
and that was actually based on real research. For enlisted infantry,
the coveted.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Decoration was the infantry soldier's badge, and they liked it because,
as I say in the book, it was the only
medal that officers couldn't give each other. So you were
so you should get if you were involved as an
infantryman in battle, you should get that. But the army
did not give that to the team snafoo soldiers that
(35:11):
were not infantry, you know, paperwork whatever. So Jim is
pretty frosted about that. He also is wounded, I won't
say how lightly wounded. So he also deserves a purple heart,
which he doesn't get. Uh, And these would have given
him points to get home sooner. As you can imagine,
(35:35):
there probably was what seven million soldiers in Europe when
the war ended, and there weren't enough ships to get
them home in any kind of hurry. So the army
developed the point system, and as you said, you would
get points for your time overseas, you would get points
(35:55):
for any medals you'd wont campaigns. Importantly, you would also
get a point if you had depended children, which Jim
had won, so he did get home before some. But yes,
that was a system, and they're actually remembered these Unlike
the Germans or even the British, and certainly the Japanese,
(36:16):
the American soldiers were citizen soldiers. You know, they voted
in elections while they were overseas. Their wives and parents
wrote angry letters to their congressmen about you know, different things.
They were citizen soldiers, so they actually started to protest
in occupied Germany and other places and had pickets, you know,
(36:38):
demanding to be sent home. But it did depend on
the point system. My father, who did not have that
many points, was sent to the south of France for
the year to go to some kind of school the
army had cooked up to wait for his term to
get home.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
That might not have been bad duty.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
No, no, not at all, Robert.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I really enjoyed the book.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Folks.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Check out jeepshowbook dot com. The name of the book
is Jeepshow A Trooper at the Battle of the Bullet.
We're down at just two minutes, rubber. But I saw
an interview you did, and it fascinated me because it
kind of sort of has to do with the book,
but is broader than that. And yeah, you said, if
we're going to have a decent life, we have to
know when to turn and fight.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely that you know. A sub theme
of the book that you've picked up on is the
main character, Jim Tanzer, is retreating and retreating and retreating,
and to some extent I formulated in his life. Before
he joined the army, he was in general kind of
(37:41):
retreating and retreating and retreating from things. But when he
gets the best known, he turns and fights. And for me,
a life lesson is.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
You can't fight all you know. You have to know.
You have to know when you're in a situation where
you have to turn and fight, and you know. And
when I say fight, in most of our it doesn't
mean with a gun or your fists. It means digging
in and doing the hard thing. And I was very
motivated with my first book by a quote from Thomas Huxley.
(38:15):
He said, the most valuable result of all education is
the ability to make yourself do the thing you have
to do when it has to be done, whether you
like it or not. And that's what happened to Jim
tanz Or. By the time he got the best known,
he had to do the hard thing and he did
it well.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Well, I'll tell you what, Like I said, I really
enjoyed the book. I encouraged our listeners to read it,
you know, at the time, and made me think. Or
We had a young man on several years ago by
the name of Jason Burt. He was the grandson of
Richard Burton. When his Grandfrother died, he found all these
albums up in the attic, and it turns out his
grandfather served in a seven forty sixth for East Air
(38:55):
Force band that on the Pacific side of the war
actually went out and performed concerts on the front lines
in the Pacific, and you got you know, your book
made me think very much about that. So Robert, thank
you for your time today, and maybe we'll hear from
you again soon.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yes, I'll let you know when I've done the sequel
about the Korean War. It's really been an honor. Thank
you so much.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Upstanding There you go, ladies and gentlemen, don't forget to
share these stories with your other friends and associates. You
can find over six hundred podcasts and American Warrior radio
dot com. Of course, the most recent episodes are on
whatever your favorite podcast platform.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Look for us there.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Until next time, Paul policies and procedures are remain in place.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Take care you've been listening to American Warrior Radio.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
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