April 6, 2025 • 39 mins
The Modern War Institute is a program at West Point that provides an astounding amont of research via publications, podcasts and special events.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
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And these are their stories.
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American Warrior Radio is on the air.
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Welcome to American Warrior Radio. Laser and gentlemen, this is
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a silencer is legal in your. State today On American Warrior,
radio we're gonna do our rigger check in With Havoc
journal Owner Charles. Feint having journals might go to website
for all things military and first. RESPONDER i encourage you
to check it Out Havoc journal dot com for new.
LISTENERS a little bit About. Charles he served twenty seven
years in THE Us, army retiring at the rank of lieutenant.
Colonel during the, time he had seven combat tours In
(01:09):
iraq And afghanistan with various special operation, units and serve
two stints as an instructor at The United States Military
academy At West. Point charles currently serves as the managing
editor of The Modern War institute At West point and
in his spare time as a volunteer law enforcement. Officer,
Charles welcome back To American Warrior.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Radio Thanks. Ben thrilled to be back with, You.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Charles you, know there's a lot of great stuff to
explore it havoc, journal so much so that sometimes it
makes me forget that you have a day. Job so
wanted to expose our listeners to The Modern War institute
and what you do, there because, HONESTLY i went to the.
Website number one is going to be a great source
for Future American wave radio. Guests So i'm, going with your,
Permission i'll steal. That but tell us about The Modern
(01:51):
War institute and it's mission and how it came to
be and what you're doing with them AT.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Mwi our mission is to generate new knowledge for the professional.
Arms we also help Enhance West points, curriculum and we
serve as an intellectual resource for military. Professionals what that
means in practice is that we do a lot of,
Research we teach in the various programs here At West,
point we do some outreach the local. Community and my
(02:18):
contribution WHERE i work as a managing editor is we
do a lot of podcasts and a lot of publication
on our site at The Modern War. Institute so my
main job there is to help out with the podcasts
and the. Editing SO i help with our podcasts such
as The Modern warstute Podcast The, spear which is storying
the word fighting. Experience we also have The Urban Warfare,
(02:42):
Initiative Urban Warfare program and exciting new one coming. Up
Five questions for A, general which should air. Shortly robinem,
again so it's not been that long since you retired
from active. Duty so was This did you have this
already in your Sites, charles before you hung up the
uniform or did it take some. TRANSITION i came to
(03:04):
really late in my. Career it came as a lieutenant.
Colonel it worked here for five, years then The army
needed to me take a hardship assignment In, Honolu hawaii
for two, years came back to two more, years retired
and didn't plan on coming Back West point was great to.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Me theyre always great to. Me BUT i was looking
forward to doing other.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Things but when the chance came to come back in
and work with this great team, AGAIN i couldn't turn it.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Down and how is THE mwi.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Funded it's largely what we call margin of excellence, funding
so it's gift money that donors PROVIDE. Mwi so our
boss is an active duty. Officer Curl Pat sullivan's the
director OF. Mwi he is what we call a green,
suitors so he's active. Duty we have a handful of
green suitors HERE inwi that our of course were praying
for by appropriated. Funds that's where the militike gets their.
(03:47):
Money but folks like me and the institute is self
are funded by gift. Funds, okay where do you source your,
writers your, researchers if you, will your.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Fellows we get them from probably three main. Sources so
we have the fellows that.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Mentioned there's a call for nwifell as that goes out every,
year and our director Of, research Doctor Max morggilli's runs
the research. Program he and he selects the. Fellows so
we make, proposals we, solicit people will come, in people,
Apply max works with the boss to make the decisions on,
that and often they come with a research, agenda so they're, like,
(04:20):
Hey i'd like to apply to be ani fellow for the,
year and here's WHAT i want to. Research and that's
what we get a lot of research that. WAY a
second way we get research is By West point cadets and.
Faculty there's a very robust research program. Here we work
closely with number of, programs especially The defense And Strategic studies.
Program that's a natural partnership with, us but we partner
with anyone that's doing research in modern.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Warfare and the third way we get research is people
just cold call.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Us they'll message us and, say, Hey i've got this,
idea and if it's a solid idea and it fits
neatly with the, program we'll take them. On, now are
these paid positions or kind of a. Mix so the
positions THAT i made internal AND mwi like and Doctor
morgley's in a handful of other, Folks John spencer's over
there with the urban, warfare those are paid positions that
(05:07):
are paid for my gift. Funds but the, fellowship it's
just it's an honorific that we afford. People but they
get great value out of be attached to the brand
and have the credibility that's associated with an organization that's
as well established as N.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Wis so it's a mutually been a patial relationship form
involved And.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Charles LIKE i, said from exploring your, WEBSITE i was
surprised by the variety and the breadth of. Topics do,
YOU i, mean internally in, staff do you also sit
down once a year or you, know every six months to,
say you, know we see this as sort of a
trending issue or, gosh we've forgotten about what, happened you,
know back in nineteen forty four and, say, okay let's
(05:44):
go find someone to do that for. Us or do
you just is it just people coming to?
Speaker 4 (05:48):
You that's a great, Question. Ben so we always have a.
Plan we have a big planning session in the, summer
because that's a downtime for a lot of, Us, like,
hey here's kind of our research goals and, everything and
then something Like october seventh happens and everything's out the
window and there's all kind of writing about The Israel halas.
War there are a couple of things that tend to
be pretty. Durable anything about the future of. Warfare we
(06:12):
are very interested In ukraine has been huge for. US
a lot of articles about drive is that they right
now if your listeners are good to our page on
the day that we're doing this. RECORDING i think we
have two or three articles today on drill, warfare but
there's such different perspectives on the same thing that we
ran them as separate. Articles so, yes we do have
(06:34):
a plan every year on, researching but often it's overcome
by events and we end up shifting gears like we
had to this.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Year you, Know, CHARLES i consider myself a civilian who
is relatively well educated about the. Military BUT i start
exploring your website and looking at some of these research
articles and some of the commentary and analysis on the,
website and it just it blew my. MIND i had
no idea there was so much involved in. War you,
(07:02):
know it's not just going out there and you, know
shooting things of blowing things.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Up for.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Sure and that's one of the great things about working
here IN. Mwi you mentioned on the managing, Editor SO
i work For John, ambel who's our editor in, chief
And john's a genius when it comes to editing and
soliciting input from people and just MAKING mwi. Happen he's
really important to what we do. Here And john has
a just a penchant for drawing in interesting people who
(07:29):
want to write interesting, things and he helps them become
really great. WRITERS i can't think of anything That i've
seen him, touch certainly my own articles even BEFORE i JOINED,
mwi that he touches that aren't infinitely better when he's
done with. Him So john will through his, network get
pieces in through our own. Brand and what's really we're
rorrying about working IN mwi is we're really tied in
(07:52):
tightly with the operational.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Force how long HAS mwi been doing. This that's kind
of a follow up question to that. Too who is
your tar audience for? THIS i can't be just the
cadets right.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
Now both great.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Questions SO mwi was started by The superintendent Of West
point in twenty, fourteen who saw a need to reconnect
West point intellectual capital to the broader. Force so our
basically catchphrase is that we help prepare to win tomorrow's wards.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Today so we're.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Getting cats thinking not only militarily but intellectually about their,
development the kind of things that they're going to need
to learn and know literally from the first time they
lead a formation all the way up to the time
that they're in officers seniorly up levels of the military
or in, politics where these types of lessons that were
(08:47):
really going to come into. Play so twenty fourteen is
kind of when we got. Started as we've been around
for about ten. Years you Asked ben about who do
we write. For who's our, audience and it's anyone in
the operational force who's interested in and about the future. Warfare, so,
yes we are At West point and everything we do
goes to support the core of, cadets but we can't
(09:07):
do that if we're not also supporting the. Army so
we have two roles in, there support the army and by,
extension The Joint force by concentrating on preparing the cadets
that are here to win tomorrow's.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Wars.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
Today when we start, OFF i mentioned THAT i DID,
rgc so it's certainly not limited To West point. Cadets
all the cadets out there are. Ocs anyone that's aspiring
professionals should be listening TO mwi or one of our.
Partners ladies and gent, on this is your, Host Ben Bler.
Garcia we're talking With Charles, faint who's the managing. Editor
you've got Somebody Tiles charles of The MILITARY Mwi Fashionating. Organization,
(09:44):
charles when come back and like you to share more
about what you're doing on what you're.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Missing you've got some very interesting events that take place as.
Well if stick, around, folks you'll be right. Back welcome
(10:12):
back To American Warrior. Radio lation and, gentlemen this is your,
Host Ben Buler. Guarcier we're speaking With. Charles charles is
one of the key leaders at the MW. I At, CHARLES, i,
Honestly i'm so grateful for you to introducing. That you
there's so much stuff you, do and you were talking
about the demographics and then you know how you pretty
much produce this for the. Army but my unedumacated civilian
(10:33):
eyes saw a lot of stuff in there that could apply.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
All across the.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Branches do you ever cross train with the other branches
or you, know invite them to share their thoughts because
war has gotten so much more. Integrated if you, will you,
know you might have An army ford air controller talking
to An Air force, Pilot navy pilot off a carrier,
somewhere and everybody's got to be working. Together do you
(10:58):
all recognize that use it in your operations day to?
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Day one hundred. Percent, Ben that's in my personality. Naturally
as you, KNOW i spend a lot of time in
The Joint, forces specifically The Joint Special Operations, command and
that is part of THE dna OF mwi as. Well for,
example one of my, Colleagues Rob, payne is An Air
Force attendant. Colonel so we're joint from the gid go
and it's a very interesting amalgamation of people. HERE i
(11:23):
Mentioned Curl sullivan who's our. Director he's an engineer for
a brigade. Commander we have A Special FORCES e seven
here who works with us and Manages West point's combat diver.
Program we have a cyber, officer we have an armor.
Officer my background is infantry and, intel so there's a
wide swath of experiences in here and bring those perspectives
(11:45):
and that role of dex of connections and to make
the network. Better so we're very focused on The Joint.
Force we're primarily existing for the. Army but LIKE i,
said you can't support the, cadets let's support the. Army
can't support the arm unless you support the Joy. Forest
SO i see all those things. Related Air Force academy
has something similar to us with their own twist on.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
It The Naval.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
ACADEMY i don't think they quite have AN mwi structure,
yet BUT i think they're working on. It but they
all recognize that it's important to continue to prepare now
to win, later so they're all doing something.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Similar, Well i'll tell you.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
What i'm going to spend a lot of time on
your podcast and so there's actually it's a series of.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Podcasts the podcasts have been. Great that's one of the
chief ways that young people consume information. Now certainly for
me and maybe for, You, BEN i grew up reading
and that still my preferred way of doing. Things but
young people they'll pop into your buds and they'll go
for a run and listen to a podcast and as
a great way to convey information to. Them AND mwi
(12:46):
was really quick to get on, that to recognize it
and get out in front of. It so When John
amble started THE mwi, podcast which is kind of our
flagship international level type, thing that's turned into a huge.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Thing The, spear which is.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
One of the One i'm response before the story of combat.
Experience a lot of fun to do that really inspirational
to the younger. Guys John spencer and His Urban warfare.
Podcast we also have projects six sixty three, three which
is An Arctic antarctic, one and we do a lot
of partnering with other. Organizations The Irregular Warfare institute started
(13:19):
off WITH, us but grew so big that they branched
it on their.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Own they still breed partners FOR.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
US i don't think that really struck me, though The
Social science Of, war because we're gonna be talking a
little bit touching on that a little bit later in the.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Show so what was the thought behind that? One thank
you for bringing that one.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Up that one slipped my, mind which you shouldn't, have
Because The Social science Of war is a podcast started
by the department THAT i used to be part of.
Here WHEN i got hired At West, POINT i went
to The department Of Social, sciences which is a very
strong department here At West. Point Joe petraeus was part of,
that and a large number of high profile individuals were
faculty at The Department Social, sciences which we Call Social
(13:59):
so The social And warfare Is social's latest. Podcast So
social runs, it they do the, interviews they do the,
editing et. Cetera but we host it because we have
a bigger, platform a little more tech technical expertise. There
so it's another crossover example of how the different organizations
At West point help support each other in getting after
the same, mission which is helping cadets and helping the. Army,
(14:21):
okay what and you said you just added what was
a coffee with the general or?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
What the newest?
Speaker 4 (14:28):
One the One i'm most excited about right now because
this is the one that THAT i kind of did
create a lectric. Crave John amble came up with this
great idea of having a cadet run, podcast which on
the surface of, it there's all kinds of career warning
lights going, off, Right you're like cadets dureral, officer where
they going to, say what are they going to? Do
but the cadets here been AND i, know you know
(14:50):
Many West point graduates and, cadets they're they're, special they're
good men and. Women, especially we give them some guide,
to some training and some technical, expertise they can really
headed up out of the. Park So john came up
with an idea of five questions for a, general, which
as the name, implies is cadets asking five questions of
general officers and just turning the recording on and letting it.
(15:12):
Go and that really helps capitalize on the unique dynamic
that's inherent when you get someone who is brand new
to the profession like our, cadets and someone who's been
added for thirty forty or more years like these general,
officers and you take the broke down retired lieutenant colonel
out of the picture and you just let him have
a conversation and it goes really. Well so the first
(15:32):
one we did was kind of a doubleheader With General,
dempsey who people will recognize Former chairman Tr Chiefs staff
and his night class and ninety seventy four Classmate Skipped
Sharp and that was a heck of an. Episode lots
of learning went, on lots of good, experiences but a great.
Podcast and we've got about eight in the, bank so
we're gonna be talking to some general, officers putting with
(15:53):
cadets and just turning MIC's on to see what. Happens, So,
Ben i'm really excited about that.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Podcast from a bronze, Standpoint have you been at this
long Enough charles to where you're getting any feedback from the.
CADETS i, mean how is this resonating all your programs
with THE. Mwi how's that resonating with.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Them there's a high level of interest in, it as
you might. Expect so we're kind of a.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Well known brand At West Point end in the broader.
Army and my boss is very risk tolerant in the
sense of that he lets us try. Boundaries we got
the lesion, ten we got The superintendent's, guidance we stay
well within. That but he's willing to let us. Cook
is what the young people, Say let me. Cook so
(16:35):
he lets us, cook and we let the cadets, cook
and they find that really invigorating or. Awarding and you
could imagine being a twenty year old and being in
a room with multiple four star generals at that. LEVEL
i don't even remember the first TIME i talked to
a general, officer but it certainly wasn't my freshman year
At Mercery. University so these guys are getting all of
all kind of opportunities for. That and concurrent with, that
(16:58):
there's another program At West point and very about is
called The Vanguard, initiative and it's An Advanced Military Skill
development program that's run by The department Of Military, instruction
so we partner with them as, well providing the kind
of academic expertise and getting the academic development for those
vanguard cadets who are really focused and skilled in the military.
(17:18):
Pillar and there's overlap between the. Two SO i work
with a lot of ban card cadets in the stuff
we do AT. Mwi and then the generals sound like
they're very receptive to. This they really, Are and it's
kind of a running, joke BUT i don't mean it
as a. Joke if there's something THAT i want, done
IF i need to do outreach or something like that
for on behalf of a cadet or a cadet, PROJECT
i have the cadets do the. Ask everyone loves. Cadets
(17:42):
everyone wants to help. Cadets everyone wants to develop. Cadets
nobody cares about field grade officers or you, know when
they get, commissioned the thea blooms off the. Roads but
everyone wants to help the, cadets and that's important development
for them, too, Right SO i always warn them there's
never any such thing as a casual conversation With Jeral
that's something someone told me early in my, career and it's. True, so,
(18:04):
yes they're, friendly they're not in, uniform they're in here
having a good time with, you but they're still. Generals
so how are you going to act as a professional
in that gets your job, done but also have a good,
time because that's one of the reasons they want to
come down here and. Talk so it's been going very, Well,
ben and look forward to doing more of.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
It ladies and.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Gentlemen there's your, Host Ben Duva garcia here On American Warrior.
Radio we're talking With Charles, faint who's the managing editor
of The Modern War institute At West. Point charles remind
us of the WEBSITE mwi dot.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Org too.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Easy we'll be right back with more From. Charles stick.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Around if you're enjoying our, broadcast please encourage your friends
to tune in as. Well over five hundred podcasts At
American Warrior radio dot, com and you can find regular
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Speaker 2 (18:47):
Pages thank.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
You welcome back To American Warrior.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Radio ladies and. Gentlemen this is your, Host Spin Deeler.
Garcia we're coming to you from the silence Of Central.
Studios adding a silencer will make shootings, safer more, enjoyable
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(19:35):
four zero three two, seven zero or visit silencercentral. Dot
com we're Chatting With. Charles faint he's the managing editor
Of The Modern war Institute At. West Point, at, CHARLES
again i Can't but i'm just so blown away by
all the stuff you all.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Are.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Doing, Again now i've always you, Know this i've considered
myself a more of. A translator i've been around the
military long enough to kind of know the lingo and
the curve season those sorts. Of Things but i'm, still,
firmly uh, you know implanted in the. Civilian world and again,
for ME and i hope the people listening to, this
show they'll bill go explore your website because there's just
so much information THERE and i can see it as
(20:13):
just an, amazing tool not just for. Your cadets but,
you know, My hope charles is that, you know there
might be some other military members out there who're, you
know listening to this On The. American forces now we're, gonna,
say hey, You know i'm gonna. AIRCRAFT carrier I GOT.
Wi fi i'm. Gonna go i'm gonna go check this
out and SEE what i can learn to improve my
skills and improve my my, YOU know i advance my career,
(20:33):
and frankly become a. Better warfighter there's and THAT'S why
i love THE fact i was kind of. Joking about, you,
know uh there's a lot of lessons to be learned
from these, previous conflicts and we have to know them
so we don't repeat those.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Same mistakes that's.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
ABSOLUTELY right i think it's always better to learn from
someone else's mistakes and experiences than to repeat. In yourself
BUT before i offer some more thoughts, On, THAT ben
i have to make. A correction i gave you the wrong.
WEBSITE name i. Got confused our WEBSITE is Mwi dot westpoint.
Dot edu so that's the one that any of your
LISTENERS on afn should. Tap into and while we're on
(21:08):
the TOPIC, OF afn i remember listening to It. In
iraq my first, deployment there as you know from our
previous conversation was two thousand.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
And FOUR had afn all.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
The time so anyone around the world LISTENING to afn away, from,
home hey we're, With you we're thinking, about YOU and
i appreciate what you're doing. Out there so going BACK,
to mwi so the podcast, in particular we mentioned how
useful that is as a way of, Consuming INFORMATION so
i encourage people just pop. THEM in i listened to
(21:39):
a variety of podcasts and listen to all, of ours,
of course AND also i listened to a variety of
other ones because you never know what you're going to
hear that's going to be useful to you down. The
ROAD so i encourage folks don't only LISTEN TO mwl i.
Please do we appreciate, your support But Also America, warrior
radio listen to a variety of political. Talk shows all
(22:00):
these things can help you be a better leader and a.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Better, WARRIOR charles i say the, last segment, not segment
but the last of your you know some of the things,
you DO because i want to expand on that a
little BIT. Of mets you also conduct a series organized
and host various events on a variety. Of topics are
these events open to the general public sometimes or is
(22:24):
it just cadets or a little and, YOU know i
want to Talk about yale because that it seems like
a very interesting Relationship theyre, but overall, in General if
i'm just happen, to be, you know Outside Of west
POINT and i want to pop in and listen to one,
of these is that allowable or?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Frowned upon one?
Speaker 4 (22:40):
Hundred percent we encourage people to partake in the public
facing events that. We do people can't just walk Into
west point proper if we're having an event unless it's
open to. The public sometimes that's. The case but what
we do like to do is record and post them
for everybody. To See west point is a public institutions
paid for. BY taxpayers i think expertis to see what
(23:00):
they're getting out, of it which is a. Lot, now
recently a lot of the things we've done have involved
the War, in gaza and a lot of the guests
don't for VARIOUS reasons opsec, among others they don't want. Them, publicize,
okay fine we, get that so we don't. RECORD them
i just post a quick summary. On it but, GENERALLY
speaking i like sharing what. We do it's primarily For
(23:22):
the cadetsu's primarily for. The army but were we all
work For the? American PEOPLE so I like america to
know what we got. Going, on well let's talk.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
About That The war council reflections On The. Gaza war
now this is a two, main players THE Are Gov
scholarship Program and Leadership and diplomacy which comes Out Of
reichland University, In israel, i'm guessing And the Peace And Dialogue.
Leadership Initiative so ben's dumb question of, The, show charles
(23:50):
YOU know i always, get one what is the Connection
between Yale And?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
West, point well thank you for, Two.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Things ben thank you FOR mentioning Pdli the Piece And
Diale log, Leadership mission and thank you for giving me
another opportunity TO say i Went.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
TO yale i mean as who doesn't.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Appreciate that so for your listeners who, don't know any
commission officer could apply to Teach At, WHAT'S point i
didn't know that until relatively late in.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
My career it's a.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Great opportunity it's, highly competitive but if you do Get
in what's pointal pay for you to go to the
best colleges in, the world so counter to, every expectation
and no one was more SURPRISED than i WAS when
i got accepted to go to grad School. AT yale
i was a member of what is Now The jackson's
school With the jacksons who back THEN and i studied.
(24:36):
International relations AND while i, was there there was a
young and undergraduate name For Your uril epstein who had
an idea to put a bunch of different schools together
to study conflict, or resolutions civil, military relations international affairs
to the lens Of The israel palestine conflict because there
was a lot of polarization and not a lot of
(24:58):
nuance about, that conflict and he saw this as a
way to put. People together now this is. TWENTY thirteen
pdli is still going. Strong today so what it evolved
into is instead of a multi, school partnership a Partnership
between Yale And. West point that's a year long Fellowship
With west Point Cadets yale university students that includes ten
(25:19):
days of boots on the Ground in israel And The,
west Bank so Israel and palestine we go. Every, year
now the last two Years the Department of defense HAS
restricted DoD personnel. From travel it's, essential travel so we
couldn't go What the yale. Students did, in fact they
just wrapped up this, YEAR'S trip i think two, days
ago so they're back. From That so Peace And dialogue,
(25:41):
leadership initiative, great program. Student run So the yale students.
RUN it i am one of the faculty advisors with
my Colleague with bitler who's here with Me At. West
point so two, faculty advisors big board of directors from
folks involved, in it and just an excellent way to
put those two groups young.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
People, together now in.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
This most, recent initiative you brought a couple of dozen
graduate Students from israel to visit with you here In The.
United states and if folks don't know a lot About the,
Israeli society i'm guessing a lot of these graduate students
were veterans involved in the current wars, you know going on.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Over, there absolutely that was an.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Amazing Experience ben So The, argod scholars as, you mentioned
is Part Of, reichman university which is a School. In
israel it used TO Be idc hersalia in a Disciplinary.
College hersalia So The argov scholars is a grad program
that includes trips around, the world so. They traveled every
(26:45):
year they come To The, united states we host them
for an afternoon Here At. West point it's kind of a.
Regular thing we've done it, for years and they very
generously reciprocate when We're in ISRAEL. With pdui so this
year it was particularly poignant because they have so many
students who were former or current in the case of
many of the reservists members of the idea Of The Israeli,
(27:07):
defense forces male, and female including many of them with
recent Service in gaza or up on the Border, with
lebanon and it was very interesting to hear about their
experiences and to see the reactions from the. Cadets here
because most folks don't realize How diverse israel. Really is
they have something an idea in their mind about What
(27:30):
it israeli looks like When it israeli is and here
when they, show up it doesn't meet. Their expectations it, Was,
LIKE oh i had no idea that there's a member
OF the argap program, this year, for example who's a
member Of the, druze minority which most people have never
heard of before them no idea what And. Drews is
There Are ethiopian israelis that. Were there there was a
(27:51):
whole whole, white gamut and they, were fascinated of Course
With west point because the system is, completely different And
the america military operates much differently Than the.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Israeli military it's just a function of the two.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Different countries but we have such a common language in
terms of military service and academia that they're really able
to hit. It off so that's been a, great program a,
great RELATIONSHIP what, i think again from a, civilian, perspective also,
it's interesting, you know the tactics of, urban warfare and,
YOU know i can't remember the last time we were involved,
in that but that's got to be a very enlightening
(28:27):
experience for your cadets. As, well charles and we, Come
back i'd like to continue to talk, about that and
then Just something i'd like to touch on that relates
back To The.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Havoc journal if that's okay, with you sound good. To
me let's, do it ladies.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And gentlemen there's, Your Host. Bengela garcia we're Talking With.
Charles faint he's a managing editor At The Modern. War institute.
Don't forget you can find over six hundred Podcasts At
American warrior radio dot com and also check Out The
havoc journal Dot com Havoc with kay lots of great stuff.
Speaker 5 (28:52):
In there we'll be.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Right back.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Welcome Back To American. Warrior radio lasier, and gentlemen there's,
Your Host Ben. Dela garcia we're Speaking. With charles charles's
twenty seven years In The United. States army he was deployed,
multiple times working Principally With Special. Operations forces he is
now serving as the managing editor Of The Modern war
Institute At. West, POINT charles I just i can't imagine
(29:33):
what this experience must have been like for. Your cadets
chatting with those, OTHER well i have to assume they're
probably in. Similar age the visiting graduate Students, from israel.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
They were amazing and they're they're so patient with everyone
because the grad Students from israel they're a little, bit
older and of course they have much different. Life experiences,
but again the desire to serve and just the personalities
Of alved and of course we're going to pick some
cadets for, this, TOO right i mean. It's selective i'm
going to pick CADETS that i know aren't going To
(30:04):
Embarrass west point, or me not that, they Would but
i'm going to pick solid cadets.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
For that so they had an. Amazing time and.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Along that, same line we talked earlier About The, vanguard
initiative which was largely the group of cadets that met
with The Our god scholars that we just. Talked ABOUT
but i also brought Them Into New york city a
couple of weeks ago for the send off of it
For the Peace AND dialogue lusip. Of initiative so there's
a there's a law Firm In New york City called
wachtel who very generously.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Gives us office space every year to have a.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Big conference and what was interesting is the student Leaders
from yale chose To Invite General joe botel to be
the guest speaker. This year and THE reason i found
that Interesting is i'm at the stage, of life ben
where things start coming. Full Circle So general motel Was
The Deputy committean GENERAL of JAYSCK when i, was there
(30:54):
and he's one of the people that wrote me a
letter to Teach At. West point so the long story short,
On This gerald hotel one of three or four flag
officers that wrote me a letter to, come here got Me,
to yale which IS where I, met uriel which IS
how pdli STARTED because i Got To. West Point So
gerald hottel was one of the FOUNDERS of, pdli too
(31:16):
as FAR as i.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Was CONCERNED so i. Appreciate that and the young.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
People there they learned, so much they enter backed, so
WELL and i, told THEM and i believe strongly That
the yale students In The west point connests they're not that.
Far apart they think that they're so different because one
goes out of, league school one goes to a. Military
academy but they're both, equally smart they're both. Equally accomplished
and once they kind of get through what we call
like the you know when dogs meet there's butt. Sniffing
(31:42):
involved once you get, through that you find out that
you're very. Close together and now they're doing things together
that don't, involve me.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
That Don't Evolve. West point it's just groups of.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
People, Connecting, well charles there anything else you'd like to
add for our listeners about The modern warrens too before we,
Move on.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
And thanks for giving me the time to TALK about
MWI like I said Wi dot WESTPOINT. Dot eedu you
can look up my email on the site if you
have something you want to talk about or ways THAT
we canwi can help the operational force.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Out there so thanks for let me. Pitch it. Pim y'alla.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
All RIGHT as I, Said charles i'm. A translator i
kind of walk a briefly in. Both worlds i'm getting
more and more concerned about the fact that the most
current wars that we're involved in are falling off. People's
radars it's almost like our civilian leadership to, some extent
(32:36):
our elected leaders to some, other extents. The institutions, you
know it's kind of like they just.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Broke up with.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
A girlfriend they're driving down the road and they're not
even looking in the rearview. Mirror anymore, you know it's
onto the. Next thing and there's a couple of articles
on having a journal that made me think more. About
that one Was called Lifting The Veil existential Struggles Of
combat Veterans By, charles fruit who is a psychologist or
professional psychology At the University. Of hawaii thirty years professional.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
Experience working with the military and, military communities and he
starts off with this long list, of atrocities going back
into the history, of war as if we needed a
reminder that wars is a. Horrible thing but then he
also introduces the concept of a, just war, you know
and he Proposed that christians should, be pacifists but if it's,
(33:26):
in defense war, is okay if it's in defense of
your society or to try and re establish a. Lasting
piece and then in the article the doctor goes into
all these other, you know he talked about there's so
many hard decisions. IN war I just i'm really struggling, With,
THAT charles i don't. YOU know i want, to help
but that article really really slapped.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Me awake this was a.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Heavy piece it's a longer piece for what we nor
we FEATURE On, havc journal but it's really important, topics
here and like, you said there's some historical background on
the different things that have transpired over. The years but
also this this, usem bellum this justice and war concept
IS something i think a lot of folks that haven't
(34:08):
spent a lot of time in the military don't think.
About OFTEN but i think a lot of folks who never,
experienced it or don't study, it closely or aren't connected
like you are to. The community don't think about what
the long term toll is and the things that we
ask our war fighters. To do and you MENTIONED that
i spent a lot of time Overseas in Iraq, and
AFGHANISTAN and, i Did and i'm proud. Of that BUT
also i was the intel guy in the national level special.
(34:30):
OPERATIONS unit i wasn't the guy kicking. DOWN doors i
wasn't the one on checkpoints picking up bodies in a.
COMMISSIONAL unit i wasn't driving a supply convoy that got
hit multiple times.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Over there so in MANY ways i had it.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Very, easy COMPARATIVELY and i think that we don't understand
how easy it is for us to get in the
types of conflicts that result of the types of things
that you read in that Article At chris ROE and.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
I just some some quotes he talks about the con
it's an exposure, to loss fuel's grief. And rage many
soldiers master departmentalization to main front, sight focus but they're
not prepared for the title wave of unresolved emotions when
they finally step away from. Military Life and i've heard
over and over and Over again charleston the Ten Eleven
(35:17):
years i've been doing, the show, you know loss, of
tribe sense of loss, of mission, you know transitioning from
being the tip of the spirit and now being a,
cubicle somewhere and how that really.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Becomes.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
A Challenge and I'm just i'm, worried THAT like, i
said this is dropping off, the radar and.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
We have got veterans out there who got a lot.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Of stuff to, deal With and i'm, just very. Very
concerned So you're you're right to be concerned. About that
SO that i think.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
About often my family worried about ME when, i retired
and that's a standard worry.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
For folks.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
YOU know i didn't want to do anything but be
In the army of my. Entire life my father Was
A green bereat and commanded some of the most elite
special operations units that our, nation HAS so i never
wanted to do. Anything else are STRAIGHT from rtc into
the army and then one day. IT'S over i was
fortunate for a couple. OF reasons i had had a
very long off ramp to getting out Of. The army
(36:16):
it wasn't like a, YEAR injury i have to, get
out or now you're listed it's up or there wasn't
a reduction, of force side time. And prepare and also
my life didn't change, That, Much ben so, You know
i'm going to work in the SAME place i WORKED before.
I retired i just wear a different uniform, in quotes
which is normal khakis In A West point polo.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
These days but my friends are. THE same i saw the,
SAME wife i still.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
Have this my income is, still good but a lot
you take one or two of those big support networks
away and. It's hard so IF if i had, gotten
divorced or if my been never got MARRIED and i
went back Home to ALABAMA and i didn't have the,
SUPPORT network i could be one of those people that
(37:00):
are struggling.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Through LIFE and i think we need to pay more
attention to those. Young men and when we were out there,
doing it, YOU know i made.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
A connection there's, Another article CHARLES that i consider related
as called they do not want to understand the wars
we fight in their Name By, jake smith who's a
firm earning ranger with four deployments and currently a law.
Enforcement officer And again i'm gonna just pull from. His article,
he says the young always ask the questions without an inkling,
of guilt yet the honest answers would shock them despite
(37:26):
their inability to fully. Comprehend them the young always seem
to ask. THE questions i think many of us want
to answer honestly without an inkling. Of guilt and, YOU
know i see that kind of tying Into doctor frew's
article as far as how do we get to a
point where we can talk about this and how veterans
feel comfortable bringing this.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Up One so jake's one of our most, prolific writers
write some very really. Heavy thing is great author working
closely with Our Editor. Mike warnock shout Out. To mike
so this this is an important. Order GOAL and i
hope if if anyone listening to this piece reads Anything,
by havoc they need to read. This one they need
(38:08):
to come in and understand that partially because then we
veterans have a responsibility to share. As well so a
lot of vets will go, around, saying hey nobody, understands
us but what are you doing in the veterans veteran
community to help? People understand there's this whole dysfunctional veterans
sub SUBCULTURE that i think is extremely unhealthy that a
(38:29):
lot of vets. Are into we need to be going
out there and telling. These stories And like jake's saying in,
this article when people ask, those questions there shouldn't be
anything off. The table if someone is asking a legitimate
question about, our profession what, we did there should be nothing.
Off limits and that's easy for me as the guy
who never killed anyone directly in any of the seven times,
that deployed and a guy who didn't lose anyone really close.
(38:52):
TO me i know that's easy for me. To say
but if we want people to, understand us we have
to do. Our, part veterans so get out there and have,
these conversations the hard ones and help.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
People Understand charles, Wells spoken THAT'S why i love having
you as a Guest On American, WHERE reader i just
REAL quick i. TOUCHED on i Just had jake, rodemacher
on who produced a very powerful Documentary Called Brothers, after
war and he was struggling himself and he Says That
gary sonie. Told me, he says, you know very often
the way to help mend the wounded harder is to
go out and help. Someone ELSE so i think that's
(39:22):
also a tip for the veterans Out, there charles thanks
for joining us today.
Speaker 5 (39:26):
And we hope to.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Talk. Soon, hey thanks it's always a pleasure helping me.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Back on there, We go ladies, and gentlemen another one.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
That can until, next time all policies and procedures are
to remain.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
In place. Take care.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
You've been Listening To American. Warrior radio archived episodes may
be found at americanwarriorradio dot com or your favorite. Podcast
platform
We all owe them, but very few of us know them.
They are the men and women of our military and
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
And these are their stories.
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American Warrior Radio is on the air.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Welcome to American Warrior Radio. Laser and gentlemen, this is
your host, Ben buler Garcia. American Warrior Radio broadcast from
the Silencer Central Studios. They're the nation's largest suppressor dealer
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Visit silencercentral dot com to get the process. Started be
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(00:47):
a silencer is legal in your. State today On American Warrior,
radio we're gonna do our rigger check in With Havoc
journal Owner Charles. Feint having journals might go to website
for all things military and first. RESPONDER i encourage you
to check it Out Havoc journal dot com for new.
LISTENERS a little bit About. Charles he served twenty seven
years in THE Us, army retiring at the rank of lieutenant.
Colonel during the, time he had seven combat tours In
(01:09):
iraq And afghanistan with various special operation, units and serve
two stints as an instructor at The United States Military
academy At West. Point charles currently serves as the managing
editor of The Modern War institute At West point and
in his spare time as a volunteer law enforcement. Officer,
Charles welcome back To American Warrior.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Radio Thanks. Ben thrilled to be back with, You.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Charles you, know there's a lot of great stuff to
explore it havoc, journal so much so that sometimes it
makes me forget that you have a day. Job so
wanted to expose our listeners to The Modern War institute
and what you do, there because, HONESTLY i went to the.
Website number one is going to be a great source
for Future American wave radio. Guests So i'm, going with your,
Permission i'll steal. That but tell us about The Modern
(01:51):
War institute and it's mission and how it came to
be and what you're doing with them AT.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Mwi our mission is to generate new knowledge for the professional.
Arms we also help Enhance West points, curriculum and we
serve as an intellectual resource for military. Professionals what that
means in practice is that we do a lot of,
Research we teach in the various programs here At West,
point we do some outreach the local. Community and my
(02:18):
contribution WHERE i work as a managing editor is we
do a lot of podcasts and a lot of publication
on our site at The Modern War. Institute so my
main job there is to help out with the podcasts
and the. Editing SO i help with our podcasts such
as The Modern warstute Podcast The, spear which is storying
the word fighting. Experience we also have The Urban Warfare,
(02:42):
Initiative Urban Warfare program and exciting new one coming. Up
Five questions for A, general which should air. Shortly robinem,
again so it's not been that long since you retired
from active. Duty so was This did you have this
already in your Sites, charles before you hung up the
uniform or did it take some. TRANSITION i came to
(03:04):
really late in my. Career it came as a lieutenant.
Colonel it worked here for five, years then The army
needed to me take a hardship assignment In, Honolu hawaii
for two, years came back to two more, years retired
and didn't plan on coming Back West point was great to.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Me theyre always great to. Me BUT i was looking
forward to doing other.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Things but when the chance came to come back in
and work with this great team, AGAIN i couldn't turn it.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Down and how is THE mwi.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Funded it's largely what we call margin of excellence, funding
so it's gift money that donors PROVIDE. Mwi so our
boss is an active duty. Officer Curl Pat sullivan's the
director OF. Mwi he is what we call a green,
suitors so he's active. Duty we have a handful of
green suitors HERE inwi that our of course were praying
for by appropriated. Funds that's where the militike gets their.
(03:47):
Money but folks like me and the institute is self
are funded by gift. Funds, okay where do you source your,
writers your, researchers if you, will your.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Fellows we get them from probably three main. Sources so
we have the fellows that.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Mentioned there's a call for nwifell as that goes out every,
year and our director Of, research Doctor Max morggilli's runs
the research. Program he and he selects the. Fellows so
we make, proposals we, solicit people will come, in people,
Apply max works with the boss to make the decisions on,
that and often they come with a research, agenda so they're, like,
(04:20):
Hey i'd like to apply to be ani fellow for the,
year and here's WHAT i want to. Research and that's
what we get a lot of research that. WAY a
second way we get research is By West point cadets and.
Faculty there's a very robust research program. Here we work
closely with number of, programs especially The defense And Strategic studies.
Program that's a natural partnership with, us but we partner
with anyone that's doing research in modern.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Warfare and the third way we get research is people
just cold call.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Us they'll message us and, say, Hey i've got this,
idea and if it's a solid idea and it fits
neatly with the, program we'll take them. On, now are
these paid positions or kind of a. Mix so the
positions THAT i made internal AND mwi like and Doctor
morgley's in a handful of other, Folks John spencer's over
there with the urban, warfare those are paid positions that
(05:07):
are paid for my gift. Funds but the, fellowship it's
just it's an honorific that we afford. People but they
get great value out of be attached to the brand
and have the credibility that's associated with an organization that's
as well established as N.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Wis so it's a mutually been a patial relationship form
involved And.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Charles LIKE i, said from exploring your, WEBSITE i was
surprised by the variety and the breadth of. Topics do,
YOU i, mean internally in, staff do you also sit
down once a year or you, know every six months to,
say you, know we see this as sort of a
trending issue or, gosh we've forgotten about what, happened you,
know back in nineteen forty four and, say, okay let's
(05:44):
go find someone to do that for. Us or do
you just is it just people coming to?
Speaker 4 (05:48):
You that's a great, Question. Ben so we always have a.
Plan we have a big planning session in the, summer
because that's a downtime for a lot of, Us, like,
hey here's kind of our research goals and, everything and
then something Like october seventh happens and everything's out the
window and there's all kind of writing about The Israel halas.
War there are a couple of things that tend to
be pretty. Durable anything about the future of. Warfare we
(06:12):
are very interested In ukraine has been huge for. US
a lot of articles about drive is that they right
now if your listeners are good to our page on
the day that we're doing this. RECORDING i think we
have two or three articles today on drill, warfare but
there's such different perspectives on the same thing that we
ran them as separate. Articles so, yes we do have
(06:34):
a plan every year on, researching but often it's overcome
by events and we end up shifting gears like we
had to this.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Year you, Know, CHARLES i consider myself a civilian who
is relatively well educated about the. Military BUT i start
exploring your website and looking at some of these research
articles and some of the commentary and analysis on the,
website and it just it blew my. MIND i had
no idea there was so much involved in. War you,
(07:02):
know it's not just going out there and you, know
shooting things of blowing things.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Up for.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Sure and that's one of the great things about working
here IN. Mwi you mentioned on the managing, Editor SO
i work For John, ambel who's our editor in, chief
And john's a genius when it comes to editing and
soliciting input from people and just MAKING mwi. Happen he's
really important to what we do. Here And john has
a just a penchant for drawing in interesting people who
(07:29):
want to write interesting, things and he helps them become
really great. WRITERS i can't think of anything That i've
seen him, touch certainly my own articles even BEFORE i JOINED,
mwi that he touches that aren't infinitely better when he's
done with. Him So john will through his, network get
pieces in through our own. Brand and what's really we're
rorrying about working IN mwi is we're really tied in
(07:52):
tightly with the operational.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Force how long HAS mwi been doing. This that's kind
of a follow up question to that. Too who is
your tar audience for? THIS i can't be just the
cadets right.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
Now both great.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Questions SO mwi was started by The superintendent Of West
point in twenty, fourteen who saw a need to reconnect
West point intellectual capital to the broader. Force so our
basically catchphrase is that we help prepare to win tomorrow's wards.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Today so we're.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Getting cats thinking not only militarily but intellectually about their,
development the kind of things that they're going to need
to learn and know literally from the first time they
lead a formation all the way up to the time
that they're in officers seniorly up levels of the military
or in, politics where these types of lessons that were
(08:47):
really going to come into. Play so twenty fourteen is
kind of when we got. Started as we've been around
for about ten. Years you Asked ben about who do
we write. For who's our, audience and it's anyone in
the operational force who's interested in and about the future. Warfare, so,
yes we are At West point and everything we do
goes to support the core of, cadets but we can't
(09:07):
do that if we're not also supporting the. Army so
we have two roles in, there support the army and by,
extension The Joint force by concentrating on preparing the cadets
that are here to win tomorrow's.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Wars.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
Today when we start, OFF i mentioned THAT i DID,
rgc so it's certainly not limited To West point. Cadets
all the cadets out there are. Ocs anyone that's aspiring
professionals should be listening TO mwi or one of our.
Partners ladies and gent, on this is your, Host Ben Bler.
Garcia we're talking With Charles, faint who's the managing. Editor
you've got Somebody Tiles charles of The MILITARY Mwi Fashionating. Organization,
(09:44):
charles when come back and like you to share more
about what you're doing on what you're.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Missing you've got some very interesting events that take place as.
Well if stick, around, folks you'll be right. Back welcome
(10:12):
back To American Warrior. Radio lation and, gentlemen this is your,
Host Ben Buler. Guarcier we're speaking With. Charles charles is
one of the key leaders at the MW. I At, CHARLES, i,
Honestly i'm so grateful for you to introducing. That you
there's so much stuff you, do and you were talking
about the demographics and then you know how you pretty
much produce this for the. Army but my unedumacated civilian
(10:33):
eyes saw a lot of stuff in there that could apply.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
All across the.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Branches do you ever cross train with the other branches
or you, know invite them to share their thoughts because
war has gotten so much more. Integrated if you, will you,
know you might have An army ford air controller talking
to An Air force, Pilot navy pilot off a carrier,
somewhere and everybody's got to be working. Together do you
(10:58):
all recognize that use it in your operations day to?
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Day one hundred. Percent, Ben that's in my personality. Naturally
as you, KNOW i spend a lot of time in
The Joint, forces specifically The Joint Special Operations, command and
that is part of THE dna OF mwi as. Well for,
example one of my, Colleagues Rob, payne is An Air
Force attendant. Colonel so we're joint from the gid go
and it's a very interesting amalgamation of people. HERE i
(11:23):
Mentioned Curl sullivan who's our. Director he's an engineer for
a brigade. Commander we have A Special FORCES e seven
here who works with us and Manages West point's combat diver.
Program we have a cyber, officer we have an armor.
Officer my background is infantry and, intel so there's a
wide swath of experiences in here and bring those perspectives
(11:45):
and that role of dex of connections and to make
the network. Better so we're very focused on The Joint.
Force we're primarily existing for the. Army but LIKE i,
said you can't support the, cadets let's support the. Army
can't support the arm unless you support the Joy. Forest
SO i see all those things. Related Air Force academy
has something similar to us with their own twist on.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
It The Naval.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
ACADEMY i don't think they quite have AN mwi structure,
yet BUT i think they're working on. It but they
all recognize that it's important to continue to prepare now
to win, later so they're all doing something.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Similar, Well i'll tell you.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
What i'm going to spend a lot of time on
your podcast and so there's actually it's a series of.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Podcasts the podcasts have been. Great that's one of the
chief ways that young people consume information. Now certainly for
me and maybe for, You, BEN i grew up reading
and that still my preferred way of doing. Things but
young people they'll pop into your buds and they'll go
for a run and listen to a podcast and as
a great way to convey information to. Them AND mwi
(12:46):
was really quick to get on, that to recognize it
and get out in front of. It so When John
amble started THE mwi, podcast which is kind of our
flagship international level type, thing that's turned into a huge.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Thing The, spear which is.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
One of the One i'm response before the story of combat.
Experience a lot of fun to do that really inspirational
to the younger. Guys John spencer and His Urban warfare.
Podcast we also have projects six sixty three, three which
is An Arctic antarctic, one and we do a lot
of partnering with other. Organizations The Irregular Warfare institute started
(13:19):
off WITH, us but grew so big that they branched
it on their.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Own they still breed partners FOR.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
US i don't think that really struck me, though The
Social science Of, war because we're gonna be talking a
little bit touching on that a little bit later in the.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Show so what was the thought behind that? One thank
you for bringing that one.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Up that one slipped my, mind which you shouldn't, have
Because The Social science Of war is a podcast started
by the department THAT i used to be part of.
Here WHEN i got hired At West, POINT i went
to The department Of Social, sciences which is a very
strong department here At West. Point Joe petraeus was part of,
that and a large number of high profile individuals were
faculty at The Department Social, sciences which we Call Social
(13:59):
so The social And warfare Is social's latest. Podcast So
social runs, it they do the, interviews they do the,
editing et. Cetera but we host it because we have
a bigger, platform a little more tech technical expertise. There
so it's another crossover example of how the different organizations
At West point help support each other in getting after
the same, mission which is helping cadets and helping the. Army,
(14:21):
okay what and you said you just added what was
a coffee with the general or?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
What the newest?
Speaker 4 (14:28):
One the One i'm most excited about right now because
this is the one that THAT i kind of did
create a lectric. Crave John amble came up with this
great idea of having a cadet run, podcast which on
the surface of, it there's all kinds of career warning
lights going, off, Right you're like cadets dureral, officer where
they going to, say what are they going to? Do
but the cadets here been AND i, know you know
(14:50):
Many West point graduates and, cadets they're they're, special they're
good men and. Women, especially we give them some guide,
to some training and some technical, expertise they can really
headed up out of the. Park So john came up
with an idea of five questions for a, general, which
as the name, implies is cadets asking five questions of
general officers and just turning the recording on and letting it.
(15:12):
Go and that really helps capitalize on the unique dynamic
that's inherent when you get someone who is brand new
to the profession like our, cadets and someone who's been
added for thirty forty or more years like these general,
officers and you take the broke down retired lieutenant colonel
out of the picture and you just let him have
a conversation and it goes really. Well so the first
(15:32):
one we did was kind of a doubleheader With General,
dempsey who people will recognize Former chairman Tr Chiefs staff
and his night class and ninety seventy four Classmate Skipped
Sharp and that was a heck of an. Episode lots
of learning went, on lots of good, experiences but a great.
Podcast and we've got about eight in the, bank so
we're gonna be talking to some general, officers putting with
(15:53):
cadets and just turning MIC's on to see what. Happens, So,
Ben i'm really excited about that.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Podcast from a bronze, Standpoint have you been at this
long Enough charles to where you're getting any feedback from the.
CADETS i, mean how is this resonating all your programs
with THE. Mwi how's that resonating with.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Them there's a high level of interest in, it as
you might. Expect so we're kind of a.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Well known brand At West Point end in the broader.
Army and my boss is very risk tolerant in the
sense of that he lets us try. Boundaries we got
the lesion, ten we got The superintendent's, guidance we stay
well within. That but he's willing to let us. Cook
is what the young people, Say let me. Cook so
(16:35):
he lets us, cook and we let the cadets, cook
and they find that really invigorating or. Awarding and you
could imagine being a twenty year old and being in
a room with multiple four star generals at that. LEVEL
i don't even remember the first TIME i talked to
a general, officer but it certainly wasn't my freshman year
At Mercery. University so these guys are getting all of
all kind of opportunities for. That and concurrent with, that
(16:58):
there's another program At West point and very about is
called The Vanguard, initiative and it's An Advanced Military Skill
development program that's run by The department Of Military, instruction
so we partner with them as, well providing the kind
of academic expertise and getting the academic development for those
vanguard cadets who are really focused and skilled in the military.
(17:18):
Pillar and there's overlap between the. Two SO i work
with a lot of ban card cadets in the stuff
we do AT. Mwi and then the generals sound like
they're very receptive to. This they really, Are and it's
kind of a running, joke BUT i don't mean it
as a. Joke if there's something THAT i want, done
IF i need to do outreach or something like that
for on behalf of a cadet or a cadet, PROJECT
i have the cadets do the. Ask everyone loves. Cadets
(17:42):
everyone wants to help. Cadets everyone wants to develop. Cadets
nobody cares about field grade officers or you, know when
they get, commissioned the thea blooms off the. Roads but
everyone wants to help the, cadets and that's important development
for them, too, Right SO i always warn them there's
never any such thing as a casual conversation With Jeral
that's something someone told me early in my, career and it's. True, so,
(18:04):
yes they're, friendly they're not in, uniform they're in here
having a good time with, you but they're still. Generals
so how are you going to act as a professional
in that gets your job, done but also have a good,
time because that's one of the reasons they want to
come down here and. Talk so it's been going very, Well,
ben and look forward to doing more of.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
It ladies and.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Gentlemen there's your, Host Ben Duva garcia here On American Warrior.
Radio we're talking With Charles, faint who's the managing editor
of The Modern War institute At West. Point charles remind
us of the WEBSITE mwi dot.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Org too.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Easy we'll be right back with more From. Charles stick.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Around if you're enjoying our, broadcast please encourage your friends
to tune in as. Well over five hundred podcasts At
American Warrior radio dot, com and you can find regular
programming updates on Our, Facebook, instagram and ex social media.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Pages thank.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
You welcome back To American Warrior.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Radio ladies and. Gentlemen this is your, Host Spin Deeler.
Garcia we're coming to you from the silence Of Central.
Studios adding a silencer will make shootings, safer more, enjoyable
and improve your. Accuracy begin the process by visiting silencercentral
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in your. State they can then walk you through the
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Door call Silencer central today at eight sixty six six'
(19:35):
four zero three two, seven zero or visit silencercentral. Dot
com we're Chatting With. Charles faint he's the managing editor
Of The Modern war Institute At. West Point, at, CHARLES
again i Can't but i'm just so blown away by
all the stuff you all.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Are.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Doing, Again now i've always you, Know this i've considered
myself a more of. A translator i've been around the
military long enough to kind of know the lingo and
the curve season those sorts. Of Things but i'm, still,
firmly uh, you know implanted in the. Civilian world and again,
for ME and i hope the people listening to, this
show they'll bill go explore your website because there's just
so much information THERE and i can see it as
(20:13):
just an, amazing tool not just for. Your cadets but,
you know, My hope charles is that, you know there
might be some other military members out there who're, you
know listening to this On The. American forces now we're, gonna,
say hey, You know i'm gonna. AIRCRAFT carrier I GOT.
Wi fi i'm. Gonna go i'm gonna go check this
out and SEE what i can learn to improve my
skills and improve my my, YOU know i advance my career,
(20:33):
and frankly become a. Better warfighter there's and THAT'S why
i love THE fact i was kind of. Joking about, you,
know uh there's a lot of lessons to be learned
from these, previous conflicts and we have to know them
so we don't repeat those.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Same mistakes that's.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
ABSOLUTELY right i think it's always better to learn from
someone else's mistakes and experiences than to repeat. In yourself
BUT before i offer some more thoughts, On, THAT ben
i have to make. A correction i gave you the wrong.
WEBSITE name i. Got confused our WEBSITE is Mwi dot westpoint.
Dot edu so that's the one that any of your
LISTENERS on afn should. Tap into and while we're on
(21:08):
the TOPIC, OF afn i remember listening to It. In
iraq my first, deployment there as you know from our
previous conversation was two thousand.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
And FOUR had afn all.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
The time so anyone around the world LISTENING to afn away, from,
home hey we're, With you we're thinking, about YOU and
i appreciate what you're doing. Out there so going BACK,
to mwi so the podcast, in particular we mentioned how
useful that is as a way of, Consuming INFORMATION so
i encourage people just pop. THEM in i listened to
(21:39):
a variety of podcasts and listen to all, of ours,
of course AND also i listened to a variety of
other ones because you never know what you're going to
hear that's going to be useful to you down. The
ROAD so i encourage folks don't only LISTEN TO mwl i.
Please do we appreciate, your support But Also America, warrior
radio listen to a variety of political. Talk shows all
(22:00):
these things can help you be a better leader and a.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Better, WARRIOR charles i say the, last segment, not segment
but the last of your you know some of the things,
you DO because i want to expand on that a
little BIT. Of mets you also conduct a series organized
and host various events on a variety. Of topics are
these events open to the general public sometimes or is
(22:24):
it just cadets or a little and, YOU know i
want to Talk about yale because that it seems like
a very interesting Relationship theyre, but overall, in General if
i'm just happen, to be, you know Outside Of west
POINT and i want to pop in and listen to one,
of these is that allowable or?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Frowned upon one?
Speaker 4 (22:40):
Hundred percent we encourage people to partake in the public
facing events that. We do people can't just walk Into
west point proper if we're having an event unless it's
open to. The public sometimes that's. The case but what
we do like to do is record and post them
for everybody. To See west point is a public institutions
paid for. BY taxpayers i think expertis to see what
(23:00):
they're getting out, of it which is a. Lot, now
recently a lot of the things we've done have involved
the War, in gaza and a lot of the guests
don't for VARIOUS reasons opsec, among others they don't want. Them, publicize,
okay fine we, get that so we don't. RECORD them
i just post a quick summary. On it but, GENERALLY
speaking i like sharing what. We do it's primarily For
(23:22):
the cadetsu's primarily for. The army but were we all
work For the? American PEOPLE so I like america to
know what we got. Going, on well let's talk.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
About That The war council reflections On The. Gaza war
now this is a two, main players THE Are Gov
scholarship Program and Leadership and diplomacy which comes Out Of
reichland University, In israel, i'm guessing And the Peace And Dialogue.
Leadership Initiative so ben's dumb question of, The, show charles
(23:50):
YOU know i always, get one what is the Connection
between Yale And?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
West, point well thank you for, Two.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Things ben thank you FOR mentioning Pdli the Piece And
Diale log, Leadership mission and thank you for giving me
another opportunity TO say i Went.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
TO yale i mean as who doesn't.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Appreciate that so for your listeners who, don't know any
commission officer could apply to Teach At, WHAT'S point i
didn't know that until relatively late in.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
My career it's a.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Great opportunity it's, highly competitive but if you do Get
in what's pointal pay for you to go to the
best colleges in, the world so counter to, every expectation
and no one was more SURPRISED than i WAS when
i got accepted to go to grad School. AT yale
i was a member of what is Now The jackson's
school With the jacksons who back THEN and i studied.
(24:36):
International relations AND while i, was there there was a
young and undergraduate name For Your uril epstein who had
an idea to put a bunch of different schools together
to study conflict, or resolutions civil, military relations international affairs
to the lens Of The israel palestine conflict because there
was a lot of polarization and not a lot of
(24:58):
nuance about, that conflict and he saw this as a
way to put. People together now this is. TWENTY thirteen
pdli is still going. Strong today so what it evolved
into is instead of a multi, school partnership a Partnership
between Yale And. West point that's a year long Fellowship
With west Point Cadets yale university students that includes ten
(25:19):
days of boots on the Ground in israel And The,
west Bank so Israel and palestine we go. Every, year
now the last two Years the Department of defense HAS
restricted DoD personnel. From travel it's, essential travel so we
couldn't go What the yale. Students did, in fact they
just wrapped up this, YEAR'S trip i think two, days
ago so they're back. From That so Peace And dialogue,
(25:41):
leadership initiative, great program. Student run So the yale students.
RUN it i am one of the faculty advisors with
my Colleague with bitler who's here with Me At. West
point so two, faculty advisors big board of directors from
folks involved, in it and just an excellent way to
put those two groups young.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
People, together now in.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
This most, recent initiative you brought a couple of dozen
graduate Students from israel to visit with you here In The.
United states and if folks don't know a lot About the,
Israeli society i'm guessing a lot of these graduate students
were veterans involved in the current wars, you know going on.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Over, there absolutely that was an.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Amazing Experience ben So The, argod scholars as, you mentioned
is Part Of, reichman university which is a School. In
israel it used TO Be idc hersalia in a Disciplinary.
College hersalia So The argov scholars is a grad program
that includes trips around, the world so. They traveled every
(26:45):
year they come To The, united states we host them
for an afternoon Here At. West point it's kind of a.
Regular thing we've done it, for years and they very
generously reciprocate when We're in ISRAEL. With pdui so this
year it was particularly poignant because they have so many
students who were former or current in the case of
many of the reservists members of the idea Of The Israeli,
(27:07):
defense forces male, and female including many of them with
recent Service in gaza or up on the Border, with
lebanon and it was very interesting to hear about their
experiences and to see the reactions from the. Cadets here
because most folks don't realize How diverse israel. Really is
they have something an idea in their mind about What
(27:30):
it israeli looks like When it israeli is and here
when they, show up it doesn't meet. Their expectations it, Was,
LIKE oh i had no idea that there's a member
OF the argap program, this year, for example who's a
member Of the, druze minority which most people have never
heard of before them no idea what And. Drews is
There Are ethiopian israelis that. Were there there was a
(27:51):
whole whole, white gamut and they, were fascinated of Course
With west point because the system is, completely different And
the america military operates much differently Than the.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Israeli military it's just a function of the two.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Different countries but we have such a common language in
terms of military service and academia that they're really able
to hit. It off so that's been a, great program a,
great RELATIONSHIP what, i think again from a, civilian, perspective also,
it's interesting, you know the tactics of, urban warfare and,
YOU know i can't remember the last time we were involved,
in that but that's got to be a very enlightening
(28:27):
experience for your cadets. As, well charles and we, Come
back i'd like to continue to talk, about that and
then Just something i'd like to touch on that relates
back To The.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Havoc journal if that's okay, with you sound good. To
me let's, do it ladies.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And gentlemen there's, Your Host. Bengela garcia we're Talking With.
Charles faint he's a managing editor At The Modern. War institute.
Don't forget you can find over six hundred Podcasts At
American warrior radio dot com and also check Out The
havoc journal Dot com Havoc with kay lots of great stuff.
Speaker 5 (28:52):
In there we'll be.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Right back.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Welcome Back To American. Warrior radio lasier, and gentlemen there's,
Your Host Ben. Dela garcia we're Speaking. With charles charles's
twenty seven years In The United. States army he was deployed,
multiple times working Principally With Special. Operations forces he is
now serving as the managing editor Of The Modern war
Institute At. West, POINT charles I just i can't imagine
(29:33):
what this experience must have been like for. Your cadets
chatting with those, OTHER well i have to assume they're
probably in. Similar age the visiting graduate Students, from israel.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
They were amazing and they're they're so patient with everyone
because the grad Students from israel they're a little, bit
older and of course they have much different. Life experiences,
but again the desire to serve and just the personalities
Of alved and of course we're going to pick some
cadets for, this, TOO right i mean. It's selective i'm
going to pick CADETS that i know aren't going To
(30:04):
Embarrass west point, or me not that, they Would but
i'm going to pick solid cadets.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
For that so they had an. Amazing time and.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Along that, same line we talked earlier About The, vanguard
initiative which was largely the group of cadets that met
with The Our god scholars that we just. Talked ABOUT
but i also brought Them Into New york city a
couple of weeks ago for the send off of it
For the Peace AND dialogue lusip. Of initiative so there's
a there's a law Firm In New york City called
wachtel who very generously.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Gives us office space every year to have a.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Big conference and what was interesting is the student Leaders
from yale chose To Invite General joe botel to be
the guest speaker. This year and THE reason i found
that Interesting is i'm at the stage, of life ben
where things start coming. Full Circle So general motel Was
The Deputy committean GENERAL of JAYSCK when i, was there
(30:54):
and he's one of the people that wrote me a
letter to Teach At. West point so the long story short,
On This gerald hotel one of three or four flag
officers that wrote me a letter to, come here got Me,
to yale which IS where I, met uriel which IS
how pdli STARTED because i Got To. West Point So
gerald hottel was one of the FOUNDERS of, pdli too
(31:16):
as FAR as i.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Was CONCERNED so i. Appreciate that and the young.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
People there they learned, so much they enter backed, so
WELL and i, told THEM and i believe strongly That
the yale students In The west point connests they're not that.
Far apart they think that they're so different because one
goes out of, league school one goes to a. Military
academy but they're both, equally smart they're both. Equally accomplished
and once they kind of get through what we call
like the you know when dogs meet there's butt. Sniffing
(31:42):
involved once you get, through that you find out that
you're very. Close together and now they're doing things together
that don't, involve me.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
That Don't Evolve. West point it's just groups of.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
People, Connecting, well charles there anything else you'd like to
add for our listeners about The modern warrens too before we,
Move on.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
And thanks for giving me the time to TALK about
MWI like I said Wi dot WESTPOINT. Dot eedu you
can look up my email on the site if you
have something you want to talk about or ways THAT
we canwi can help the operational force.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Out there so thanks for let me. Pitch it. Pim y'alla.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
All RIGHT as I, Said charles i'm. A translator i
kind of walk a briefly in. Both worlds i'm getting
more and more concerned about the fact that the most
current wars that we're involved in are falling off. People's
radars it's almost like our civilian leadership to, some extent
(32:36):
our elected leaders to some, other extents. The institutions, you
know it's kind of like they just.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Broke up with.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
A girlfriend they're driving down the road and they're not
even looking in the rearview. Mirror anymore, you know it's
onto the. Next thing and there's a couple of articles
on having a journal that made me think more. About
that one Was called Lifting The Veil existential Struggles Of
combat Veterans By, charles fruit who is a psychologist or
professional psychology At the University. Of hawaii thirty years professional.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
Experience working with the military and, military communities and he
starts off with this long list, of atrocities going back
into the history, of war as if we needed a
reminder that wars is a. Horrible thing but then he
also introduces the concept of a, just war, you know
and he Proposed that christians should, be pacifists but if it's,
(33:26):
in defense war, is okay if it's in defense of
your society or to try and re establish a. Lasting
piece and then in the article the doctor goes into
all these other, you know he talked about there's so
many hard decisions. IN war I just i'm really struggling, With,
THAT charles i don't. YOU know i want, to help
but that article really really slapped.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Me awake this was a.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
Heavy piece it's a longer piece for what we nor
we FEATURE On, havc journal but it's really important, topics
here and like, you said there's some historical background on
the different things that have transpired over. The years but
also this this, usem bellum this justice and war concept
IS something i think a lot of folks that haven't
(34:08):
spent a lot of time in the military don't think.
About OFTEN but i think a lot of folks who never,
experienced it or don't study, it closely or aren't connected
like you are to. The community don't think about what
the long term toll is and the things that we
ask our war fighters. To do and you MENTIONED that
i spent a lot of time Overseas in Iraq, and
AFGHANISTAN and, i Did and i'm proud. Of that BUT
also i was the intel guy in the national level special.
(34:30):
OPERATIONS unit i wasn't the guy kicking. DOWN doors i
wasn't the one on checkpoints picking up bodies in a.
COMMISSIONAL unit i wasn't driving a supply convoy that got
hit multiple times.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Over there so in MANY ways i had it.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Very, easy COMPARATIVELY and i think that we don't understand
how easy it is for us to get in the
types of conflicts that result of the types of things
that you read in that Article At chris ROE and.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
I just some some quotes he talks about the con
it's an exposure, to loss fuel's grief. And rage many
soldiers master departmentalization to main front, sight focus but they're
not prepared for the title wave of unresolved emotions when
they finally step away from. Military Life and i've heard
over and over and Over again charleston the Ten Eleven
(35:17):
years i've been doing, the show, you know loss, of
tribe sense of loss, of mission, you know transitioning from
being the tip of the spirit and now being a,
cubicle somewhere and how that really.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Becomes.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
A Challenge and I'm just i'm, worried THAT like, i
said this is dropping off, the radar and.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
We have got veterans out there who got a lot.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Of stuff to, deal With and i'm, just very. Very
concerned So you're you're right to be concerned. About that
SO that i think.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
About often my family worried about ME when, i retired
and that's a standard worry.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
For folks.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
YOU know i didn't want to do anything but be
In the army of my. Entire life my father Was
A green bereat and commanded some of the most elite
special operations units that our, nation HAS so i never
wanted to do. Anything else are STRAIGHT from rtc into
the army and then one day. IT'S over i was
fortunate for a couple. OF reasons i had had a
very long off ramp to getting out Of. The army
(36:16):
it wasn't like a, YEAR injury i have to, get
out or now you're listed it's up or there wasn't
a reduction, of force side time. And prepare and also
my life didn't change, That, Much ben so, You know
i'm going to work in the SAME place i WORKED before.
I retired i just wear a different uniform, in quotes
which is normal khakis In A West point polo.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
These days but my friends are. THE same i saw the,
SAME wife i still.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
Have this my income is, still good but a lot
you take one or two of those big support networks
away and. It's hard so IF if i had, gotten
divorced or if my been never got MARRIED and i
went back Home to ALABAMA and i didn't have the,
SUPPORT network i could be one of those people that
(37:00):
are struggling.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Through LIFE and i think we need to pay more
attention to those. Young men and when we were out there,
doing it, YOU know i made.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
A connection there's, Another article CHARLES that i consider related
as called they do not want to understand the wars
we fight in their Name By, jake smith who's a
firm earning ranger with four deployments and currently a law.
Enforcement officer And again i'm gonna just pull from. His article,
he says the young always ask the questions without an inkling,
of guilt yet the honest answers would shock them despite
(37:26):
their inability to fully. Comprehend them the young always seem
to ask. THE questions i think many of us want
to answer honestly without an inkling. Of guilt and, YOU
know i see that kind of tying Into doctor frew's
article as far as how do we get to a
point where we can talk about this and how veterans
feel comfortable bringing this.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Up One so jake's one of our most, prolific writers
write some very really. Heavy thing is great author working
closely with Our Editor. Mike warnock shout Out. To mike
so this this is an important. Order GOAL and i
hope if if anyone listening to this piece reads Anything,
by havoc they need to read. This one they need
(38:08):
to come in and understand that partially because then we
veterans have a responsibility to share. As well so a
lot of vets will go, around, saying hey nobody, understands
us but what are you doing in the veterans veteran
community to help? People understand there's this whole dysfunctional veterans
sub SUBCULTURE that i think is extremely unhealthy that a
(38:29):
lot of vets. Are into we need to be going
out there and telling. These stories And like jake's saying in,
this article when people ask, those questions there shouldn't be
anything off. The table if someone is asking a legitimate
question about, our profession what, we did there should be nothing.
Off limits and that's easy for me as the guy
who never killed anyone directly in any of the seven times,
that deployed and a guy who didn't lose anyone really close.
(38:52):
TO me i know that's easy for me. To say
but if we want people to, understand us we have
to do. Our, part veterans so get out there and have,
these conversations the hard ones and help.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
People Understand charles, Wells spoken THAT'S why i love having
you as a Guest On American, WHERE reader i just
REAL quick i. TOUCHED on i Just had jake, rodemacher
on who produced a very powerful Documentary Called Brothers, after
war and he was struggling himself and he Says That
gary sonie. Told me, he says, you know very often
the way to help mend the wounded harder is to
go out and help. Someone ELSE so i think that's
(39:22):
also a tip for the veterans Out, there charles thanks
for joining us today.
Speaker 5 (39:26):
And we hope to.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Talk. Soon, hey thanks it's always a pleasure helping me.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Back on there, We go ladies, and gentlemen another one.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
That can until, next time all policies and procedures are
to remain.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
In place. Take care.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
You've been Listening To American. Warrior radio archived episodes may
be found at americanwarriorradio dot com or your favorite. Podcast
platform
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