Americas Criminologist 08_19_25 Guest Morgan Wright Founder of the National Center for Open and Unsolved Cases

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Col Stale sus gaits just discussing him as a face
shadows secret line Doctor Curry last doing the scraminologist common
seals of the law in the alocycles, A bag and

(00:30):
change brust.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
And here's America's criminologists, Doctor Kerry Myers.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
Hello, my friends. Hope everybody's doing well. You know, in
my book The Advent of Feral Man, I discussed about
the wilding of humans and the changes in the criminal
archetype that has occurred in the last decade or so.
For many years on the job as a state trooper,
special agent and then sheriff of a major county in America,
I understand cause and effect firsthand, and as applied criminologists,

(01:04):
I put all those things together for the public to
be able to see what is really going on in
America today. So please view my substack page at doctor
Curriemeiers dot substack dot com to read all my published
works and see my string radio shows, interviews, podcasts, and yes,
you can even get my book on that broken down
in chapters there. Also, we're streaming on all platforms out there.

(01:28):
Hey do you like beef?

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Of course you do.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
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(01:53):
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So Howard Tagoo Wagoo tallow lotion is there for.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
You to use.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Just reach out to them. Okay, here's my riff for today.
Here's a reality check back in the mid nineteen sixties,
homicide clearance rates in the United States, we're soaring over
ninety percent of murders that were sold. In fact, if
you're a police chief, if you dip too much below
seventy or so, there's a good chance you could find

(02:38):
yourself in the unemployment line. That's how much important that
we had on those things. Fast forward us today and
we're having around fifty percent. This means half of all
murders going sold, and it's not just homicides. Across the board,
violent crimes are hitting record lows in terms of being solved.
Clearance rates for violent offenders are setting around forty one percent.

(03:00):
Some recent data shows improvement hovering around sixty one percent
for murder clearance in twenty twenty four. But can we
trust the numbers. There's a lot of times we can't
trust the data that's coming out. So now what's happening.
Here's the few hard truths. Departments are shrinking, retirements are up,
recruitments is down, and fewer detectives means less solved cases.

(03:20):
In fact, New York City alone when from seven thousand
detectives to under five thousand detectives. Progressive policies are downgrading
crimes or refusing prosecution, sending a signal that's solving and
charging certain cases as in a priority Communities, especially those
repeated let down by the system, become less willing to
cooperate with police as a result, no witnesses, no testimony,

(03:43):
no case. In some cities, crime is cooked down for
optics in the case in the crime cases is an
officially log no detective is chasing it. And finally, digital evidence,
gang structures, and transnational elements stretch small departments past their
breaking point. It's a former law enforcement officer and applied
criminologis I can tell you when case closure rates fall

(04:06):
this sharply. It erodes public trust, regardless of the reason why.
It emboldens criminals, traumatize families and victims, and invites a
justice gap that bleeds into communities everywhere. And that's my
rift for the day. So let's dive into the issue.
And there's no one better to break it down than
Morgan Right of the National Center for Open and Unsolved Cases.

(04:29):
The Center has built what's called homes, the first of
its kind platform to link the public and law enforcement
together to solve crime, find the missing, give a name
to the unidentified, find fugitives from justice, and make every
community safer. My guest is Morgan Right. It's an intentionally

(04:51):
internationally recognized expert of cybersecurity, strategy, cyber terrorism, national security,
and intelligence. He is the CEO and founder of the
National Center for Open and Unsolved Cases and Senior Fellow
for the Center of Digital Government and Chief Security Officer
for Sentinel One. He's been a law enforcement officer for
many years. In fact, we were state troopers together, remember

(05:13):
those days, Morgan, Yes, state troopers together.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Get out here we are, go wherever you want.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
That's right, that's right. So Morgan, you heard my rift
of the day and we're am I wrong?

Speaker 4 (05:27):
Well, the only thing you said that was wrong is
I'm no longer the chief security advisor for Sentinel one.
So in a couple of reasons, one is to focus
on this. No, you got everything else right.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Let me tell you.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
Let's start off with one quick thing first. If I said,
and you probably heard me say this bit, if I did,
just pretend like you've heard this the first time you've
heard it. If I said, what is the total cost
of crime? What is the tax we as citizens pay
for crime each year? That means the cost every criminal
death related death, like the value of a statistical life
is calculated at ten point nine million dollars. That's the

(05:58):
cost of family, society, loss of wages, et cetera, the
cost of lost assets, transference of property, courts, corrections. You know,
law enforcement agencies, their budgets. How much money does it
cost the United States each year for crime?

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Oh? My goodness. I don't know if you can calculate.
I think you can, because you must have, but I
think you probably need ais help. The advanced version.

Speaker 4 (06:22):
Well, actually, there's a great study that came out. It's
called the Aggregate Cost of Crime. It's five point seven
trillion dollars. If our crime were a GDP of a country,
we would be the fourth largest country in the world.
Based on crime alone, it's twenty percent of our GDP.
On average, the average amount of money each person in
the United States pays just for law enforcement is four

(06:44):
hundred and seven dollars a person. The cost of homicides
alone each year curry, which is about seventeen thy five hundred.
The cost of homicides alone each year is more than
the combined budgets of every single federal, tribal, state, and
local law enforcement agency in the United States. I mean,
the point is, you can't. We can't spend our way

(07:04):
out of this problem. And to your point, not only
our homicide clearance rates down, only seventy five percent of
sexual assault cases end up in arrest. You've got at
any one time two million fugitives out there. The last year,
the US marshals cleared eighty eight thousand of them, but
we keep at the average fugitive, by the way, commits
fifteen additional crimes right before capture. So I mean, and look,

(07:26):
and to your point about numbers, what's still saying. There's lies,
damn lies and statistics. They just suspended and reprimanded, probably
a criminally indict a DC police commander for messing with
the crime stats, right right, So yeah, it's but I'll
tell you what you can though, do, which you can
when you go out into the community and you see
people want to be free from crime and fear of crime,

(07:47):
and that's kind of what gets into our discussion today.
So you know, this whole thing is how did the
police and the public work together to solve a common problem.
That's the heart of community policing.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
Well, I think it's importance too important too, that we
use technology to our crime stats. We have been. We're
far too old in our cake and our in our
crime data applications. I'm a huge purporter proponent of evidence
based policing, but it can't be done if we don't
have the software upgrades to be able to do it

(08:17):
and the advanced AI capabilities be able to do it.
If you're if you live in a city, Morgan, it's
my belief that you should be able to look up.
The law enforcement should be mandated to post all this information,
but you should be able to look up and know
what the crime statistics are in your city that are
up to date at any given time. And why this
is important is because you want to be as a citizen.

(08:38):
You want to be able to see areas that you
may want to purchase a home or a business, or
maybe you just want to go out for the evening
and you want to know where crime's at in some
particular area and say, well, maybe we need to go
someplace else. I know it's politically not what mayors want
to do, and they control a lot of the police departments,
but there's absolutely no reason in the world why we

(08:59):
can't have of up to date information. Just like a
business has KPIs key performance indicators in order to be successful,
law enforcement should be held at the same standards.

Speaker 4 (09:10):
I believe it was the Supreme Court Justice Justice Brandeis
who said sunlight is the best disinfectant, electricity the best policeman.
And you know, and it's no I agree. I tell
you what, when the minute you start becoming radically transparent
on crime and crime statistics. People start making different decisions.
I used to calculate them when I was doing work.

(09:31):
Also inside some big tech companies like Cisco's running their
public safety homeland security solution building. I got tired of, well,
what's our ROI? Well, look, how do you calculate the
ROI for example of a swat team or an explosive
ordnance team right, or a canine right? What you have
to calculate what's the return on taxpair? I can tell
you what the impact is. If you don't solve crime

(09:53):
in your community and it gets to a point, what happened?

Speaker 2 (09:55):
What do people do? They leave out? Migration? People leave.

Speaker 4 (10:00):
What happens to your tax base? It shrinks? Right, so
your taxpayers leave. If you want to return on taxpayer.
Why do we build parks? We build parks as a way.
We just opened a couple beautiful ones. I live here
in Louden County, Virginia, now far cry from the days
of patrolling Southwest Kansas and the beef packing plants and
two lane highways at two o'clock in.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
The morning right outside Dodge City.

Speaker 4 (10:21):
Man, you talk about the wild West, it was it right,
So you know, you know, so we're talking about you know,
beautiful communities and stuff like that. So why should I
you know, when people leave, right, we built great parks
out here. Why to keep people in this county? Because
why it contributes to the tax base. And then with
tax base we can fund things like law enforcement and

(10:43):
fire and schools. But when you get people leaving, when
billionaires and millionaires flee high tax areas, what happens to them.
They raise the taxes on the people that are there
to make up for the deficits. So when I say
crime is a tax, crime is the ultimate tax that
impacts all of us. And that's one of the reasons why.
But I think I think you were getting to the
point right. It's like, what's very important I think for

(11:05):
taxprey is give them radical transparency on what's going on.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
And you know what, you'd be surprised, Kerry, You'd be surprised.
There'd be a lot of people.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
As I'm finding out with a national center now Open Unsolved,
I'm getting a lot of volunteers, you know, because people
want to make a difference, because justice matters to them.
You know, they are investing in their community for people
they've never met before for homicides, for missing people. So
I think it's a great thing. But to your point,
radical transparency, give people, don't hide it from them, tell

(11:31):
them what's going on, and make them be your partner
in solving the problem.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
You know, it's so important to have cold case investigations,
and quite frankly, for years, many times when the case
went cold, it was left and nobody even worked on
it because there wasn't any resources. Sometimes you had to
rely on volunteers. I was a major county sheriff. We
had a actual case close case unit, unsolved close cased

(11:58):
unit that worked on the KBI, as you know, will
work on them, but they don't have enough manpower. There
needs to be dedicated efforts to this, and this is
why it's so important that you created this national center.
Quite frankly, it's to fill the gap in filling the
traditional law enforcement. And I don't want to say it's

(12:19):
a burden, because we should be doing it, but when
you look at law enforcement, about eighty percent of law
enforcement are less than twenty five person departments in America.
They just don't have the capability and we're not funding
them correctly. Eighty percent of police budgets are salary and
benefits that's way too high to be able to have

(12:40):
any kind of effectual operations, to include training and the
ability to have things like this money for investigative services
for close cases. So we have to if we're going
to reimagine anything in law enforcement, we should be reimagining
things like this to actually be able to solve cases.

(13:00):
And so it's so important that what you do. And
I'm going to give you an example. In Kansas, there
is a there's been a case that has been has
been closed now and still without suspect since the late
nineteen eighties. Mister producer, can you play cut one please?

Speaker 5 (13:18):
In nineteen eighty eight, seventeen year old Randy Leech left
home in his mom's gray Dodge to attend a high
school bonfire party. Witnesses say he looked messed up, confused,
slurring his words, but no one saw him drink. Around
two thirty am, both Randy and the car were gone.
He was never seen again, no body, no vehicle, nothing.

(13:38):
The next morning, his parents rushed to the party site.
Everything had been cleaned, no cups, no cans, not a
trace of the hundred person gathering. Then the house that
hosted the party mysteriously burned down decades past. His parents
begged police, hired search teams, even used sonar in cadaver dogs.
Still no answers. Years later, the case is still open,

(14:01):
but Randy still missing, still silent, still gone.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
This is a case, and there's millions of cases like
this in America. How can your center have the opportunity
to try to fill gaps in these kinds of cases.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
Yeah, thank you for that leading, because this is how
we approach it different. A friend of mine retired from
CIA as the director of Science and Technology, and his
saying was, when you know, if the rules of the
game aren't working for you, don't change the rules, change
the game. To your point, how do we change the game?
How do we change things up? So I had come
up with this idea based on the DC Sniper, based

(14:40):
on the nine to eleven case. I was doing, working
both inside some classified and unclassified stuff, and I kept
looking at how the dots were being not connected, how
we were missing the opportunity. So when I see a
case like this, I want to turn it on. It
said to say, what's the one thing we all have
in common? When you talk about there's five things people
have in common that connect us to everything, that connect
us to every crime, date, time, location, demographics, and relation.

(15:04):
So the one thing you and I had in common
curreer at a minimum, not only from a relations standpoint,
both on the state patrols, you know, demographics, but we
both you know, I think we may have even cross paths,
you know, during the service, but you'd be at the
same place at the same time, at the same location,
So we're all connected. I was talking to a reporter today,
I was doing a pre tape for Fox News, and

(15:26):
I was telling her said, look, we're all connected by
six degrees of separation. Like technically, I'm three and a
half handshakes away from Vladimir Putin. She goes, I've met him,
I've shook his hand. I said, well, you've just reduced
my world from three point five down to one degree
of separation. I know you, you know him, So I said,
so I applied that to the case, which in the if,
So if you take the premise that we're all connected
to a case, one of the things that connects us

(15:47):
initially is location, but we we in fact, you folks
can't see it because we're doing radio but I'll show you.
So one of the cases I'm working on, this is
going to get.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Into this way.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
You can't see it because we're also.

Speaker 4 (16:01):
You didn't you didn't tell me that she's I got
to make sure I don't pick my nose or something. Okay, well,
if you're watching here, so and I take I say
this with great love because my friend she's the criminal
ahead of the just a newly promoted Assistant Chief Inspector
for the US Marshalls run the Criminal Intelligence Bureau. But
here's one of their top fifteen. Her name's Tamara Tamra,

(16:24):
which she goes by Tamara Hood, but it's Tamara Williams.
I'm sorry, I've been looking at too much stuff today.
So she's wanted for murder out of Wayne County in Michigan,
which is where Detroit is. But and they say she's
wanted by the Melville Melvindale Police Department. Okay, great, what else?

Speaker 6 (16:44):
Is there?

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Only two locations?

Speaker 4 (16:45):
Well, actually three because she disposed of her boyfriend's body
parts along I seventy five near Hancock, Ohio. Well, okay,
that doesn't really help me. There's no you know, what
do you want me to do with that? Because it's
very generic. Right, well, where it happened? Tell me the
place where it happened. So there's this Pacific location. So
what I did, using artificial intelligence and the power of
Algor's amazing Internet, I just went on in one minute,

(17:07):
I found twelve new locations where she might be associated with. Right,
So to your point in this case, the way I
would take this case, you got to look at there
were people there that when he went missing? Right when
Randy went missing missing from Lyndwood, Kansas. How big is Lynwood?
How many people were there? So you start putting pins
in the map and you start drawing around. It's like
circles of life. Right, So where did he go to

(17:29):
high school at? Where was he born? Where was the
party at?

Speaker 3 (17:32):
You know?

Speaker 4 (17:32):
And then I know that they had three suspects there,
so they were charged but eventually released. Right, Well, where
are those suspects from? Where are they originally from?

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Where might they be?

Speaker 4 (17:41):
Now it's kind of like fugitives. They are somewhere, they
will be they have been somewhere, They are somewhere, they'll
be somewhere. Right, So you've got to take this approach.
You start figuring out all the locations that this person is,
and you put a pin in the map, and one
of the things our portal does for law enforcement when
you put this is why it's so important that when
citizens register, which it's not open yet it will be,
you can go to open unsolved dot org. We have

(18:02):
a demo video you'll see what's coming. The law enforcement
portals open first because we have to get cases in
there before we bring citizens in. But if citizen goes
in like Curry, you can join and say, hey, I
want to be you know, I just want to register
and see if I'm connected to any of these cases. Well, hey,
give us at least three locations. Where were you born,
where do you live, you know, et cetera, and we
turn those into just a ziplus four us. We don't
we don't track any personally identifiable information. In fact, we

(18:23):
need no PII to make any connections. The only thing
we ask for is an email address, so we can
email you when you know, when there's information about a
case you're connected to, or if you want to leave
a tip. So that's that's all we need. So what
we do is you put a pin in the map
and you say I want to search a one mile
radius Linwood. Maybe it's a smaller area, and you say, look,
I want to increase that to five miles. So any citizen,

(18:44):
anybody who has a connection to that case, it could
be you live there during that time, but you moved
away from California. What are the chances that you're going
to hear about a case back in Kansas if you
moved to California twenty years later, thirty years later. I mean,
it's pretty small, right, It's it's serendipity, it's a chance.
So we want to remove the element of chance, make
connections based on specific, immutable things, which is location. Locations

(19:06):
don't change. The house might change, right, but the corner,
the geographic location for Maine and Elm is still Maine
in Elm, no matter what you call it. Even if
you wipe it out, there's still a geographical point where
that exists, right, So who was around that point? So
in this case, I would take Randy's information, I put
it in there. I take the suspects information at the
locations and put it in there. And what you start

(19:27):
doing is you start realizing there may be somebody that
twenty years later says, hey I used to live You know,
here's where I used to live. They join and they
put Landwood, Kansas and maybe this case for them has
dropped off the face of the ears. They haven't even
thought about it, and all of a sudden they go,
I remember this. Not only do I remember this case,
but one of those guys said something at a party
one night and encourage some people might out, might think

(19:49):
we're are just making this stuff up. How many cases
have you worked where it's turned on something that simple
so many years later?

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Is this right?

Speaker 5 (19:55):
So?

Speaker 4 (19:56):
But what happens in those cases all it's the element
of chance. I want to take the element of chance,
use more technology to say on the one side or
citizens and their locations. On the other side is law
enforcement and the locations related to that case. And what
we want to do is look that every place at
a location in a law enforcement case overlaps with a
location from a citizen. We want to notify that citizen

(20:17):
and say, hey, Curry, you might be connected to this
case because, and you know what, you might find out
you might be a connected to a case you never
heard of down in Florida. You know why because at
one time the victim they used to live next door
to you move down to Florida and now you're getting
this notification. Right, So what I want to do is
turn this on its head and start saying, what can
we track things that don't change? Well, locations don't change.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
The other thing.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
You can track demographics. Relation we're getting into but it's
like DNA. Right, you put your information in there and
there might be a profile that it matches and boom
you get a notification, or there might be nothing there.
But so that case sits there until something else comes
in and it makes a match. And that's when you
talk about cold cases. I think one of the challenges
has been people just I don't want to say cops
have gotten lazy, but you know us cops, we get lay.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Sometimes they just want to wait. Well, let's just wait
for DNA. Now.

Speaker 4 (21:03):
Sometimes you got to do the hard work. It's called
goya cod get off your ass, knock on doors, you
just got to go out. Well, what if I can
point you What if you have a cold case that
in ten years you haven't received a single lead. But
the minute we put it into this system, it generates
five new leads for you. That's five new leads you
haven't had in ten years at least the case has momentum,
it has life. Now can we solve the case? I

(21:23):
don't know, but I think what we can do is
I guarantee you in this case, there will be plenty
of people around the United States that have a connection
to leave Lynnwood, Kansas, have a connection to where this
party happened at, have a connection to the high school.
Somebody somewhere knows something. And what we want to do
is take that six degrees of separation and shrink it
down to one to two degrees to where now we
get closer and closer to the people who have information

(21:45):
to move this case forward.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
You know, one of the things that has always frustrated
me is that when law enforcement officers write reports, so
you spend all this time writing report and nobody, nobody
will ever see it again. It might come up and
in court someday, maybe your supervisor read it completely before
he or she signed off on it. Maybe, and of

(22:07):
course maybe the main case detective looked at it and
be able to handle. But there's volumes and volumes and
volumes of information that is buried inside reports that we
can't get. Is there a way that your organization can
be able to try to find information, either through advanced

(22:28):
analytics or the use of advanced AI to be able
to pick up all this valuable information that just sets
there and lost. And that's the value of evidence based
policing is to be able to try to find that
information and then make those correlations better.

Speaker 4 (22:44):
Yeah, so thank you for teeing that up too, because
this gets into I've developed a three year roadmap. It's
something one of the things I've pitched to a member
of the Senate just went and met with his staff,
Senator Jerry Moran from Kansas, our home state. I've talked
with the Governor of Virginia, the Attorney General of Virginia,
the Secretary of Public Safety Virginia. Our goal is to
get this thing funded. Why because in the three year
roadmap exactly to your point. So for the law enforcement folks,

(23:06):
they're going to understand what CJI is Criminal justice information.
We require zero, We need no zero, We need zero
CJI to make this work because if it's not public,
if you can't put it into a press release, we
can't use it. So it has to be something that
the public already knows. What we're doing is making the connections,
the non obvious connections that you didn't even know I

(23:27):
was connected to this case. Well, you're connected because you
and the victim both went to the same high schooler,
you and the victim both worked at the same place.
So in that in our three year roadmap, one of
the things we're building into it is the ability to
scan using obviously technology, there'll be versions of AI, a
large language model that will allow you to go through
even handwritten stuff. I mean, you look at what ancestry

(23:49):
dot com does with all of these old handwritten scrolls
and documents, right, the ability to do character recognition and
go back and look through old case notes. What we
key in on first is locations. Why because locations, it's
like real estate location.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Location.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
Location give us places in time and space that people
intersected and we can start making these connections. And so
part of the goal is the ability what we call
a document ingestion, so the ability to ingest massive amounts
of information but extracting out of it only things that
we can make a connection on non criminal justice information.
For example, in Randy, I didn't go through his whole case.

(24:24):
I mean I pulled it up when you were talking,
and I probably remember something about this because you know,
in Kansas. You always hear about the small enough state.
We hear about usually things like this, But I would
want to know was he born there?

Speaker 3 (24:36):
Where?

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Did he live? Where his parents from? Right?

Speaker 4 (24:38):
Where did he go to school? Does he have brothers
or sisters? I mean, you start listing out all of
those things. The problem is in a press release and
like this thing here, it doesn't tell me squat I
mean literally, I'm sorry. Even the FBI top ten you
look at their FBI top ten people. Donald Field's one
of the people on profiling right now, how many people
know where he was born? Would that make a difference?

(24:58):
Because guess what fugitives do? They go home to mama,
So you've got to track them.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
So on somewhere and where did they work?

Speaker 2 (25:05):
What skills do they have?

Speaker 4 (25:06):
Here's the great case skill sets? Yeah, that's perfect right
here camera right here, Williams wanted for murder. She's a phlebotomist.
So where is she taking blood at? Chances are it's
not somewhere where they do a background check and you
have to apply because they're going to find out she's
going to be working somewhere if she's using her same
skill set, she's going to be using that to say,

(25:27):
you know, probably working for cash and work. So if
I were a detective, you know, one of the things
I would do with geographic profiling a version of that. Now,
I would say, I have I've got a tip orally
that she might be in Atlanta somewhere, which is one
of the places she might have been. I can start
now documenting. I can be sitting here in Virginia, never
have to travel to Atlanta, but I can start saying
where all the places to where I'll call in Atlanta

(25:48):
say hey, what do you got people doing? Maybe under
the table deals, you know, working for cash. I could
document maybe ten fifteen places down there, put a pin
in the map, draw radius around that, and as people
start connecting to it, I can start I can start
shrinking the world around Tamra until we get to the
point of where I can introduce her to the US
Martial Service and we can it's a technical term, you'll

(26:10):
appreciate this career. We can put the Habeas Gravis on
her and bring her put her into breaker to justice.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, there's absolutely some amazing things that can be done.
And you mentioned genetic genealogy, and I think that's one
of the most importance. We're going to take a quick
commercial break here. When we come back, I want to
play you cut on genetic genealogy and get a little
bit more because I think it's fascinating for people listening

(26:36):
to understand a lot more about this. So when we
come back, can you stay with us number one for
the next segment and then number two? Can we get
into that particular topic when we come.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Back, You bet man, I'm here for it.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
Very good, Stay tuned, commercial break, folks, come right back.
We'll have Morgan right.

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Speaker 8 (27:39):
Penning Stagecoach Days is coming soon September fifth, sixth, and seventh.
Enjoy live rodeo Friday and Saturday nights at seven pm
plus Sunday at twelve pm. There's live music featuring Aaron
Watkins Friday at ten and Chase Bryant Saturday at ten.
Enjoy the Kids Zone, Fenders and Beard Garden all weekend long.
Catch the parade down town Saturday, August thirtieth. That's Stage

(28:02):
Coach Days at Dyserd Park. Take the Iten Freeway to
Banning Exit at sunset and go south. For more infolk,
go to Stagecoach Days dot Org.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
Hi folks, Doctor Curry Myers here to let you know
that my new show, It's called America's Criminologist with Doctor
Curry Myers every Tuesday at one pm between the Dave
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society today. I'll have guests, news and my insights as

(28:34):
an applied criminologist throughout the one hour show. So criminals
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because this show is directed at you. America's Criminologist every
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Speaker 9 (28:48):
Hello, listeners, this is Christopher from The Christopher Show. Hey,
if you miss one of our shows. You're at Kammy,
you don't worry about it. You can go to our
web page and that's kim ET fourteen ninety am dot com.
Go to the homepage, click on the soundfloud tab and
hear any show anytime you want.

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(29:32):
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Download your free new KMET Remote app today. Go to
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Speaker 3 (29:59):
All right, my friends, we're back with the phenomenal Morgan Right.
International recognized expert on cybersecurity strategy, cyber terrorism, national security intelligence.
He is the CEO and founder of the National Center
for Open and Unsolved Cases. He's also you see him
a lot on Fox News and Fox Business. Does a
lot of work there, so you can see his face

(30:20):
a lot of times pop up when they need an
expertise in those garrett areas. We've been talking about cold
click cases and in particular trying to be more efficient
with those missed producer, please play cut three.

Speaker 6 (30:37):
Police and Quebec have just solved one of the problems
is most notorious cold cases. But how exactly did they
do it? After nearly fifty years, Sharon Pryor's family was
finally able to get a bit of closure thanks to
advances in genealogy and genetics. Sharon was murdered in nineteen
seventy five on her way to a pizza place in
Montreal's Point St. Charles neighborhood. Her body was found three

(30:58):
days later on the city so police questions scores of
people and even identified some potential suspects, but no arrests
were ever made. They did have some evidence, a description
of the killer, the type of car he drove, and
a T shirt left behind at the crime scene. On
that T shirt there was DNA. DNA is the human
genetic code. It's unique from person to person and it's
in all of ourselves. But for decades that DNA wasn't

(31:21):
helpful because it didn't match anyone in police Databasically, this.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
Is a perfect example of how advanced technology can help
us out. And also it was used recently in the
Idaho murder cases Moscow murder cases when the suspect was
being followed by investigators and noticed that he was eating
a subway sandwich. He threw it away in the trash.
When they were doing their surveillance, they recovered that piece

(31:44):
of evidence, set it in and was able to identify
who that was through reverse genetic genealogy technical capability. So
can you go a little bit more into that and
how that can kind of change the narrative when it
comes to some of these cases.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
Oh yeah, you know, for three years, me and my
partner Steve Murphy. If you ever watched Narcos on Netflix
to take that, yes, yeah, So Murph was played by
Boyd Holbrook and Hobby are played by Pedro Pascal. We
did a podcast called Game of Crimes and on that
We've got a chance to interview a lot of guys.
A detective from the Toronto Police Services work in a
cold case. Doing that, he actually attended the original briefing

(32:22):
on the Golden State killer about how they used genetic
genealogy to track him down. I think is Richard DiAngelo
one of the guys we interviewed, Dave Reiker, was the
lead investigator for the Green River killer. They saw that
one though too, with geographic profiling in addition to DNA.
But this is here's what's interesting. This gets back into
the thing is even with the genealogy, guess what it

(32:43):
gets back into good old investigative being a gumshoe knocking
out doors, following leads. The nice thing about genetic genealogy
is it gives us a direction to go of which
we had no direction before. So even if you get
kind of a hint of a tip or a hint
of a low direction you can go, do you still
have to do some of the hard work. DNA only

(33:03):
gets you so far. It gets you there, but it
doesn't take you all the way. So what I like about,
especially when I've talked in fact, some of our volunteers
at the center that we're working with are doing this
exact same thing. DNA investigative services, genetic genealogy. The Virginia
State Police has people assigned to it. What it does
it shrinks the world. That's the reason I love doing

(33:24):
with the technology. Think technology shrinks the world. It brings
us closer to the people who either have information about
the crime or to the people who commit the crime themselves.
So with genetic genealogy, just think about this, This is
the ultimate who done it?

Speaker 3 (33:36):
Right?

Speaker 4 (33:37):
You start off with a little piece of information, but
it's great information because it at least it narrows it
down to a branch of the family, or at least
it says, well, look, he may be three times removed,
but somewhere in this tree. And then that's where we've
actually been talking about. How do we combine that with
what we do in terms of location to generate locations
of where people might be or connections to that case
that there might be. So, for example, we're talking about

(33:58):
the Idole murders. Everybody's connected to a case. Well, I
went to Fort Hayes State Curry in my day, and
I was a I was My fraternity was Sigma Kai Ethan.
The kid who was killed at Idaho was a Sigma
ki U. And so you know, you start talking about
how close are we connected? This is the thing you
know connects us all. But there's a danger though a

(34:19):
lot of people they watch too much TV. Remember when
we started watching TV and CSI came along and everybody
thought you'd get DNA results in you know, thirty minutes,
and then they started figuring out how to how to
eradicate DNA, you know, and you know, do stuff. So
there's still a danger with this is that I think
people get complacent. It's like, oh, well we got DNA,
well you got DNA, right, But now the question is

(34:40):
here's the here's the question for investigators. Is it a
direct transfer or is it touch?

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Right?

Speaker 4 (34:45):
Did I touched something that you touched? And so it's
not I'm not really the donor of the DNA. I'm
just simply a conduit for the actual you know, it
actually came from somebody else, right, So we have to
worry about touch DNA. But no, man, I dig this
because this gets into that's I name the system homes
the world's first private consulting detective Genetic genealogy is really

(35:06):
it's about inductive and deductive reasoning. It's about eliminating everything
it isn't and then, like in the case of Brian Colberger,
then you're left with what it is. You're left tracking
him down to his dad's place, you know, in Pennsylvania
and arresting him.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
Well, and also it's extremely important to make sure that,
as you said correctly, that you have detectives have twenty
four to forty eight hours at the max really to
be effective in their ability to get this case information.
They've got to still, regardless of the technology, regardless of
the advancements, they have to operate as if they don't

(35:40):
have that for right now at least for the first
twenty four hour to forty eight hours and be able
to gain as much information because the more information they
can gather, the more they can actually input into your
programs later. That could be extremely important. Something. There has
been many cases solved by one detective somewhere doing a

(36:05):
a case interview on somebody else that had one sentence
in a report and the case manager and it's important
to have a case manager to look over at these
things that said, wait a minute, what did this person
run into and say, let's go back and reinterview this
person because they said something that we have to address.
So this doesn't negate the fact that law enforcement and

(36:28):
we actually need the funding for law enforcement to be
able to go out and do these kind of case
work to be effective.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Right.

Speaker 4 (36:35):
Oh yeah, think about exactly to your point, the Long
Island serial killer. The way that case got reinvigorated to
somebody went back and looked at I think it was
cell phone data and payings and stuff, just having fresh
eyes on that and review it and looking for that.
I remember one of the cases I was working. It
started off something simple, I mean simple office burglar. Somebody
stole a color copier. Then we started getting counterfeit twenty

(36:57):
dollar bills and fifty dollar bills using the color carpeer.
Not the brightest thing, but eventually they got to steal
the toner. So I ran down and I'm talking with him.
And as I'm interviewing the suspect who's in custody, one
of her she's in custody one of her boyfriends, I
say friends, the real boyfriend was still out there.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
He walks in. I'm talking with him.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
He says one sentence and it's about, oh, you mean Colorado,
And I went yeah, I mean, first of all, you
don't say, what are you talk about? I said, yeah,
I'm talking about Colorado. So the next thing I do
is I am on the phone with my FBI agent
up there, Darryl Yarnell. Yeah, there were bank robberies in
Colorado and Kansas where they had taken plumber's putty, put
it at a firebox and pretended it was a bomb.

(37:36):
To your point, one sentence like that, I remember reading somewhere,
but one sentence like that said, wait a second, Colorado, FBI.
That's what I'm saying. So many of these cases can
turn on the smallest thing. The problem is we're two
separated by degrees of separation, by too many degrees of
separation between us and the information we need to solve
that case. So how do we use technology to shrink
the world. The Cleveland kidnappings Aeriel Castro kidnapped Michelle, Amanda Bury,

(38:00):
Geina Dehesus. I was covering a lot of this. I
think I don't even know if I told you. I
was a technical advisor for on America's Most Wanted for
a year and a half. One of the things I
was designed was on the one thousandth episode. But we
were talking about this case and it just blew my
mind because I've written a write up on it. They
had all the information they needed to solve the case.
It was there in the neighborhood. The girls were kidnapped

(38:21):
within three miles before they were eventually found in his house.
And they were all kidnapped within a mile of each other. Location, location, location,
But to your point, little simple stuff, little things like
that they had a sketch out there, they failed to
share the sketch on Facebook. If they had just shared
his sketch on Facebook, people that were connected to that
area would have seen it. How many times have we

(38:41):
missed the opportunity because to your point, there's no case manager,
nobody looking to connect the dots. The problem is when
we allow humans. Humans are a poer line of We
have great cognitive ability, but the mind is for having ideas,
not holding them. So we can only put so much
in our head at one time before it just explodes
and goes out. We have to have a reliable, trusted

(39:02):
system we put this stuff into. You know why because
I can tell you of sitting doing the work at
DJ and DHS when they were constituted working on the
terror consolidation of the terrorist watch list Korea. I can't
tell you how many times I saw the opportunity to
connect the dots on the d C sniper case, on
the nine to eleven stuff, where we had all the
dots in front of us and all we needed was
just that one one. In so many cases, all it

(39:24):
would have taken was just one interaction between the public
and police, or two cops talking to each other going hey,
do you hear about this? Yeah, and boom, the connection
is made and now you've got some threads to pull
to go solve this case.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
You know, the average folk may not understand that there's
turf battles that occur in law enforcement. You and I
have seen it. It's there at the local level, it's
there at the state level, it's there. It's certainly there
at the federal level between agencies. How do you overcome
the silo effect between local police, state bureaus and federal

(39:58):
agencies when revisiting these unsolved cases, because, believe it or not,
I've run into agencies before that refuse to share information.
You have a state agent, you have a local agency
that has even refused to share information with another agency
because they it's theirs, it's their case, and in my

(40:19):
personal opinion, they probably don't want to have other people
find out just how poorly they did at the case
when they did their investigation.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
I think you nailed it.

Speaker 4 (40:28):
Transparency again, Remember, sunlight's the best disinfectant.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
I don't know how you do it, let me tell
you how.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
One of the ways we addressed it in DJ Sometimes
you just got to you gotta play tough. And one
of the ways we played it is that our executive
sponsor was the Deputy Attorney General of the entire project.
So you don't want to raise any issues to the
DAG that you couldn't handle at the executive level.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
But it came down to is that.

Speaker 4 (40:50):
Look, the DAG issued a statement along with the CIO
that says you're either going to comply and you're going
to build your systems, so we don't care how you
build it. It's like you and I decide we're going
to go to a restaurant. I don't tell you how
to get there, what car to take you and I
just agree we're going to be at this restaurant at
this location at seven pm. I don't care how you
get there. Use your budget to get there. They were

(41:10):
going to pull funding. They said, you want to do that,
that's great. What we'll do is we will refuse to
authorize your systems. We will deny your AOMB three hundreds
and your applications for major information systems. They had to
play hardball to get there. That's not sustainable. Right One
ways you do it. You got to build relationships. I
think that's the biggest thing right there, how you overcome this.

(41:31):
But you got to give I spent six months inside
DJ getting people to understand, take the blinders off, forget
what the rules are, just tell me what you need.
And there is one small thing I do take credit
for because I wrote the memo that became the executive
action for John Ashcroft. But Korea at one time DA
had kind of a half ass firearm system. FBI had one,

(41:51):
I think it was called Crossfire, and then atf ran NIBAN,
the National Agorated Ballistics Information Network, there were two and
a half different systems I had to go look for
as a detective looking for information on my case. And
I remember one time slamming my hand down on the
table and going, you know what, my homicide trumps all
your turf battles. And Dennis Miller joked about it one time.
He said, the only thing the FBI and the CIA
shares the letter I in their name. Well, we've gotten

(42:13):
better at this, right, But to your point, I think
it's built on relationships. But I'll tell you what you
and I have talked about the issue of leadership before.
It's built on leadership. If you have an agency that
is refusing to play some mayor somewhere, if it's a
police chief or voters vote this person out. Get people
in there, because you know what, solving my case. If
I'm the victim's family, solving my case is more important

(42:35):
than your ego. We got to check our egos at
the door and realize, at the end of the day,
it's about getting justice for every case. I don't believe
in closure. I can't give you closure. I can't make
you feel the way you did the day before and
make you feel that way the day after. But I
can get you justice. I can get your resolution. But
technology can help break down a lot of these barriers.
But I think to your point, eighty percent of the
agencies in Kansas definitely are twenty five or fewer. And

(42:57):
that's national. Only six percent of the agencies in the
United States have one hundred and more people. We've got
to equalize that. We've got to give them the tools
so that every so every case has an equal opportunity
to be solved. But I think in some places you're right.
I think that they they're afraid of liability, They're afraid
of reputation, and they say, well, yeah, we didn't do
a very good job. And I'm working a couple of
cold cases right now. I won't tell you the agency,

(43:19):
but I can tell you one of the standard things
you get a cell phone ping data, You get towered
data from your suspect.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Missed it, yep, missed it?

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Ye, you know, Morgan. One of the things that I
often write about and I feel for families of victims.
Homicide victims often feel abandoned when cases stall. How does
your center serve both as an investigating partner in a
lifeline of hope if you will, for those families.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
I actually spent time interviewing families were thinking, believe it
or not, there's potentially a media play work here, television,
you know, YouTube kind of thing, but where we approach
this differently. But I've viewed families. You have the one
thing that and when we talk with them, we describe,
here's what we're going to do with this system. You
know it does it puts some power back into their hands.

(44:08):
They feel powerless, They feel like they can't get involved
because they feel like they're getting in the way. And
you know cops want to help out, but at some
point you can't be in my business. You know, in
my office reading my case files that it's just not allowed.
I mean, I get it, you're the victims family, and
I have a lot of empathy. I'm like, you've had
to deliver that bad news in the middle of the
night and stuff like that. But what the system does.

(44:30):
It gives you an opportunity to get other people involved
as well to help solve your case, so they're no
longer powerless. You can only hand out so many flyers
in an area. After a while you saturated. Well what
if I could just simply say, look, here's tell your
story right, but point everybody to open unsolved dot org,
get them to register account, see if they're connected to
your case. And what will happen is somebody somewhere is

(44:51):
going to have information about your case. It puts power
back into their hands to say I can get involved
without getting in the way. I can now talk about
my case. But what I can do differently than I
I could not do before is I can point everybody
to a system to Holmes that's going to collect this
information and it's going to make those connections and you
know what, if I point enough people in that place,
if I get enough people interested, maybe one of those

(45:11):
people will be the lead that helps break open my
case or at least provide resolution. Look, when somebody's missing
after twenty years, for example, it's like Randy Leitch, you know,
you want to give the family hope that you can't
give them false hope. And he was declared, you know,
officially dead at some point, it's like, but do you
think they'd like to know where he's at? Do you
think they'd like to bring him home, give him a
proper burial? Absolutely, And maybe if all we do is

(45:34):
do that, that's a victory. That's a win for the family,
you know, and then the next best thing for them
finding out the person who did it, bringing them to justice.
So but I think for families of victims, it puts
power back into their hand. It doesn't give them false hope,
but it gives them technology and a tool that they've
never had before to be able to get the word out.
And no matter where this is, the more that people connect,

(45:56):
the more connections that will be made, and the more
leads that will be generated, and the more chances that
this case is going to be solved because I've never
solved the case completely on my own. I've either used
technology or leads. But you know, I told somebody said, well,
what happens if we get, you know, like fifty or
sixty leads? I said, well, what happens if you don't
get fifty or sixty leads? And in one of those
fifty or sixty is the lead that closes the case?

(46:18):
Which would you rather have?

Speaker 3 (46:19):
Yeah? And the great part about your system is you can't.
You're not going to be scared of getting one hundred
leads or two hundred leads or five hundred leads, because
you're going to be able to put that information into
the data and it'll be able to sort it out
and be able to come up with themes I call
them themes that can develop that can help your case.
Do you think your work is going to result in

(46:39):
potentially new investigative standards or result in maybe training programs
to actually help improve how future cases are even work
to begin with?

Speaker 4 (46:48):
Absolutely, I'm working right now. I'll dime them out. Johnny
Capacelli is he retired from Chesterfield County p D. But
he's been a cold case and the homicide detective cold
case investigator him and Chris Flanagan. They're both Chris as
the president and Johnny's on the board of the mid
Atlantic Cold Case Homicide Investigators Association. I'm a member of
the International Homicide Investigators Association. We've actually been talking about

(47:11):
how do we change geographic profiling? Right, how do we
start looking at occupational profiling? For example, Tamara Williams, she's
a phlebotomis where else can I go with this? Where
else can I look at this from a behavioral standpoint?
What are the probabilities that Curry Myers, who is a
Maybe you're an amazing carpenter, but you're on the run,
you're a fugitive.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Just that's not correct.

Speaker 4 (47:32):
Play toss me a bone here, toss me a frickin
bone here. Okay, yeah, yeah, you're an amazing carpenter, right,
but what are the chances are you're going to use
your skill set, you go out on the road, You're
going to work for cash some We're why because you
know how to do carpentry. So I think it's going
to result in some new techniques. We're already talking about
how we change not only our investigative strategies, but how
do we change our pr strategies so when you're out

(47:54):
there talking to people, it's no longer well here's the
standard press release.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
Just read it.

Speaker 4 (47:57):
It's like, hey, look, here's here's you take action right.
Not only if you know something, you know, send something right,
but here, go to this link. You know, put in
your information. See if you're connected to this case. By
the way, if you're not connected to that case, you
might be connected to another case in California because the
wanted criminals living next door to you, which, by the way,
guess what how many times does that happen when you
watched AMW.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
The difference with AMW. Let me just make this final point.
And I love the show.

Speaker 4 (48:22):
I loved working with John Walsh, But at any one
time they had two thousand cases they could profile, but
only four to five get picked for a network show.
Why because the network show's technically only forty four minutes long.
In an hour long show, sixteen minutes of commercial, So
nine and ninety five cases got zero visibility.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
Right.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
That's part of the theory of the system is that
it doesn't matter what case we highlight or what case
we show. That's a marketing tool to get you to
connect to say are you connected to this case? Because
once you put your locations in there, we're comparing them
against the other. And I think that's going to change
your pr strategies.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
It's going to a lot.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
It's going to change your investigative strategies because now when
you're doing victimology, learning about the victim or the suspect,
now it's going to be very important. Where were they born,
where did they go to school, where did they live?
All of these things become data points in homes that
we draw radiuses around and we start looking for common connection.
Where's that then diagram between the police locations and citizen locations,
where do they overlap. The more overlaps we get, the

(49:19):
more leads we're going to generate, and the more leads,
the more case closures we're going to get.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
So this is in next One's kind of an interesting question,
at least from my angle. Do you think this can
be applied to other cases or particially potentially be used
in things like transnational crime or cyber terrorism or those
kinds of things. How much? Because to me, if you

(49:46):
have information in here that could benefit a cold case,
it can potentially benefit other cases that may be associated,
like I said, with transnational crime or some other active
crime investigation that's going on at that time.

Speaker 4 (49:59):
Well, Al Gore's amazing. Internet has no concept of distance.
The Internet has no concept of distance, right. So I
was just talking with somebody in the British Channel Islands,
the island of Jersey who has connections with the Jersey
police down there. I've talked with London met I've had
this discussions with Canada. In other words, the other thing

(50:21):
we're looking at. You take a look at Interpol and
the Red notices and the bad people they're really looking for.
What happens If I'm in Australia and I'm here and
I go to Disney and I stay in a certain place,
I can mark those as locations and go back to
Australia and I might get enough that says, hey, you
might be connected to this case because the fugitive we're
looking for was here at Disney at the same time.
How many fugitives I can tell you, amw cut a

(50:42):
few overseas hugitives. A lot of fugitives go overseas a
lot of cases. There's connections between people who were in
They went to Chicago for a convention. They may not
know they had saw something, but they go back to England.
What are the chances they're going to hear about that case?
So this thing not only does that, but yeah, we
could start You could start looking at human sex trafficking.

(51:03):
You could look at fentanyl trafficking, you could look at
cartel members, terrorism, anything to where when you're looking at
for terrorism suspects, right, you're looking to take people off
the board. What's an important thing you want to know? Well,
where are they at? If I'm going to put a
reaper on target, if I'm going to put bombs and
bullets or you know, Delta or Sale Team six on target?

Speaker 2 (51:21):
What's the one thing I got to know with high confidence?
Where are they at?

Speaker 3 (51:26):
For all those chiefs, sheriffs, directors of state polices that
are out there, is there a way that they should
get in touch with you to be able to try
to open the door and other jurisdictions. And I know
you have to scale up and that takes some time,
talent and treasure, but is there a money start addressing

(51:48):
those issues?

Speaker 2 (51:49):
Yeah? Money. We're still working with the government.

Speaker 4 (51:51):
We're working on our third grant from the Department of
Justice and We've got some private donors now that have
been doing it. So yeah, if you're out there, if
you're law enforcement agency, go to open unsolved dot org.
Openunsolved dot org on their first ball is a fifty
minute basically an hour long demo. It's going to show
you what the system's about. It's going to show you
the law enforcement portal. It's going to show you the
citizen portal. All of our contact information is on their

(52:13):
info info at openunsolved dot org. I personally get all
of those. I will respond to every single one.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
We'll be glad to tell you.

Speaker 4 (52:20):
The law enforcement portal's going to go live September fourth.
We start doing our first training. On September twelfth, we
build out our full regimented training program. We have to
train the trainers coming up. They're both two hours long.
We're doing one on a Monday, one on a Friday,
so four hours to get our people who are going
to be inputting cases and doing the work into the system.
The law enforcement training will be no more than two hours.
In other way, it is what Hey, Curry, you'll appreciate this.

(52:43):
I got crusty old veterans homicide guys who you know
wouldn't know how to send an email most likely.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
But when they use this.

Speaker 4 (52:51):
I've got two people, I said, I'm putting your quotes
on the website. They go, this is very user friendly,
it's easy to use. Anytime you get a thirty year
veteran of law enforcement talking about technology.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
And goes, hey, this is easy to use, I said,
that's gold right.

Speaker 3 (53:04):
So, well you know it's honest because he's not going
to lie to you.

Speaker 4 (53:08):
Of course, Well, we know how some tech, we know
how technology challenge. Some of our guests are in our
radio hosts are so.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
Yeah, if it's not working, they're going to be the
first one to let you know. Again, how you've mentioned
your site. How can they keep up with you and
make sure that they're following your work.

Speaker 4 (53:27):
We're open Unsolved on Facebook, on Instagram, on YouTube channel.
Open unsolved dot org is the website and with me,
it's very simple. Morgan right, underscore us on X and
just reach out to me info at openunsolved dot org.
And if you can't get a hold of me and
get a hold of Curry, he knows how to get
a hold of me. We will be glad to reach out.
When we did our demo. We had one hundred and
thirty five different agencies on the demo, Curry from thirty

(53:50):
four different states.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
Yeah, that is incredible. Well, I wish you luck, special
special thanks to all the work that you're doing, and
special thanks Morgan for coming on our show. Thank you
very much much. This is doctor Curry Myers. You can
view all my published works on substack Doctor Curry Myers
dot substack dot com. Don't forget to get some Howard
Wago beef for your barbecue this weekend, and hey join

(54:11):
me later on Today I'm guest hosting for the lou
Desmond and Company show on Criminal Minds Tuesday. My interview
will be with retired FBI Deputy Assistant Director Scott Nelson.
Stay safe and have a great day.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
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a face.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Shadows a secret line, Doctor.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Curry, Let's do the Scotscramnologist con seals the Lotos cackles
a crime. Fagan sa