Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Andy Stan Lead Leadership Podcast from the Vault.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Before we get into.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Today's content, I want to tell you about a resource
that our friends at Blay created to help leaders focus
on their priorities and make a clear plan to maximize productivity,
which is what is most important to most of us
right anyway, Being in charge of really any organization, in
large or small, requires time, your valuable time, and your energy.
And if you're not intentional, I mean, if we're not
(00:31):
intentional with setting a work routine and finding our productivity rhythm,
our schedules easily get filled up with meetings, miss leneous
tasks that prevent us from doing what only we can do.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
As a leader. And this is where Blay can help.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
With exceptional US based virtual assistance accounting professionals and social
media managers, Blay's flexible staffing solutions will free you up
to focus on what matters most. To help you get started,
Blat is offering a free download of their ebook, Rise
Up and Lead Well, Rise.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Up and Lead Well, Let's face it. The sooner a leader.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Accepts that it's okay to ask for help, the sooner
they can get back to focusing on what only they
can do, and the more sustainable and productive their workdays become.
This resource provides valuable insights about how leveraging an assistant
will change your.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Life and maximize your time.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Don't miss out on the opportunity to receive this free
download of Rise Up and Lead Well. To claim the offer,
text the word Andy to five five one two three.
That's a n d y to five five one two three.
And now let's dive into today's content from the vault.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, The conversation designed
to help leaders go further faster. On today's podcast, we're
going to explore how to respond to the increased demands
on a leader's time. Andy, we first talked about this
topic on the podcast a little over a year ago,
but it's so important we felt like it warranted more discussion.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, I'm not sure we could ever talk about this
too much. The harsh reality of leadership is that the
more successful we are, the less accessible we become. The
more successful we are, the less accessible we become. And
the truth is from more most leaders we want to
be more accessible because there are more people to be
accessible to. But it just it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So any accessibility really is a casualty of a growing
ministry or organization.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, And the truth is it should be. As things
grow and as more people are involved, a leader can't
be equally accessible to all people. And so then we're
faced with the dilemma of who gets my time and
who doesn't, When do they get it, and how much
of it do they get?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
So it's kind of like having engine trouble in a Ferrari.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, exactly, it's a successful person's problem. It's only the
person in a growing organization, whether it's ministry or a business,
that has the problem of why there are too many
people I need to be with. There's too many people
I need to give my time to.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Well what are the I guess common reactions you see
when a leader faces this for the first time.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Well, there's two things. I think.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Initially, we all try to be all things to all people,
and we all try to continued to be as accessible to.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Everyone as we always have been.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
And I one of the most difficult transitions I made
in our organization was several years ago when I had
to reorg our entire leadership team. And again, I, like
most leaders, I thought, oh, I can figure this out.
I'm constantly giving advice in this area. So I just
sat down with my list and I decided I would
figure out the reorg and I couldn't do it.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I just couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And the reason I couldn't do it I did not
want to become less accessible to people I had been
very accessible to in some cases for years and in
some cases from the beginning. And so I, you know,
I had five or six people, you being one of them,
who had been here from the beginning. I didn't want
to become less accessible. At the same time, I had
new members of the management team that I needed to
be accessible to. And I finally gave up and hired
(03:45):
a consultant and brought them in and said, I can't
figure this out. And the bottom line was the exercise
was too emotional for me. And so, you know, that's
not unique to me. I think a lot of leaders
faced that. So actually he came in and took me
through several exercises that helped me bring some objectivity to
the you know, to the process. But then I had
(04:06):
to sit down with people i'd been very accessible to
and say, well, you're no longer going to be a
direct report, which means I'm not going to be as
accessible to you. But that was the only way to
grow this organization. So this is a constant struggle. There's
a lot of angst around this. So again, you know,
one of the ways people respond to this is they
refuse to deal with the reality I can't be as accessible.
(04:27):
The other extreme is to decide, well, since I can't
be accessible to everyone, I will be inaccessible to everyone.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I won't be accessible to anyone.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
And as time goes by and as people become more
and more successful, the temptation, I think, probably among men
more than women, is to become so autonomous that I
don't want to commit my time to anyone. And that's
a problem as well. So on one extreme, you're a
person is so thin they can't get things done. On
the other hand, they become so inaccessible because they can't
(04:59):
be as accessible as they used to be. That it
creates a different kind of problems. So somewhere in the middle,
leaders have to manage through this constant tension. It does
not go away. This is one of those problems that
is never solved. It is attention to manage, trying to
decide who gets my time and how much of the
time do.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
They get, Andy, When I've heard you talk about this,
I've heard you address that part of this is really
an awareness issue.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, it is, especially for those of us in ministry.
You know, in the old days, we just weren't aware
of what was happening in every country in the world.
Every natural disaster, every heart attack, every person who you
know finds out they have cancer, every family crisis. For
people in ministry who are listening, I mean, we are
so bombarded with tragedy and so bombarded with her Then we,
(05:43):
you know, open up our web browsers and read CNN
or Fox News or whatever about every abused child. You know,
it just goes on and on and on, and so
we're so bombarded with information, we're so bombarded with need,
and there's something in all of us or most of us,
that wants to fix the wants to meet all those needs,
and it's absolutely impossible. So again, I'm either going to
(06:04):
be stretched so thin that I'm no use to anyone,
or I'm just going to retreat and say, well, since
I can't fix all of it, I'm not even going
to try to be involved in any of it.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Well, Andy, that's obviously true in our case, but that's
true in the marketplace as well.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I mean marketplace leaders that think about it is they're
aware of what's going on in every market all over
the world twenty four to seven, how it impacts their industry,
how it might impact their industry. Suddenly you have to
give your attention to not three or four things, but
to a dozen things. You know, what's going on with
your competitors, which you know that's helpful information, but it
also brings complexity to the decision making model.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And again we.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Get stretched so thin that at some point we have
to back up and ask ourselves not only the question
of who am I going to be accessible to, but
what sources of information do I want to remain accessible to? Otherwise,
you know, again, we'll just retreat and hibernate, or we'll
be stretched so thin that we're really of very little
use to anyone.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
So Andy, as I hear you talking about this, it
seems that we're with one of two extremes. You can
either shut it all out or we can just take
it all on.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, and neither one of those works. If you take
it all on again, you're going to be very little
use to anyone. But at the same time, if you
were going to stay engaged in our organizations, stay engaged
in decision making, we can't afford to shut it all out.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
And Andy, finding a way to manage that tension led
you to a phrase that's become part of our culture
here at North Point, and that's do for one what
you wish you could do for everyone.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, we say that around here all the time. I
can't afford to disengage, but I can't afford to be
engaged with everyone. So do for one when you can
what you wish you could do for everyone. It's symbolic leadership,
and it's very, very powerful, and as we've seen, and
as we've talked about a year ago, it trickles down
through the whole organization.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Andy, one of the reasons you say that so many
of us avoid this as leaders is this tension we
feel to be fair.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, fairness is such a difficult thing. I don't even
try to be fair anymore. And that may sound terrible
coming from a pastor, but you know, we tell our
kids all the time, life isn't fair. And I've found
not only is life not fair, trying to be fair
generally leads to me to be disengaged. You know, growing up,
we heard this all the time. You know, if I
do this for you, I'll have to do it for everyone.
And I think we've adopted that into our adult world
(08:10):
and so consequently, if we can't do for everyone, we
do for no one. But even as kids, we knew
that there was a fallacy because if adults or parents
would say, well, if I give you a cookie, I
have to give everybody a cookie, and we were thinking, no,
you don't.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
You can just give me a cookie. I won't tell,
you won't tell. You know, everything's good.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So I think we should just abandon that whole way
of thinking that it should never be well, since I
can't do for everyone, I'm going to do for no one.
We should actually turn it around and say, well, I'm
going to do for one what I wish I could
do for everyone.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
And is that fair?
Speaker 1 (08:37):
No, it's not fair, But it forces me and it
allows me to stay engaged with someone even if I
can't be engaged with everyone. So it keeps us from
retreating to that I'm not going to do anything, and
it keeps us from feeling like we have to do
for everyone. Since we did for one, so it's due
for one what you wish you could do for everyone.
Don't try to be fair. Just make sure you're engaged.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
So Andie, how does that look in your world?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, this is hard for pastors, especially because as you know,
as pastors, we're supposed to be all things to all people,
and we don't like to tell people know, and we
don't like to tell people we can't meet with you ever,
you know, and so you know, when it comes to
the typical pastoral responsibilities, I can't do every wedding, I
can't do every funeral. I can't baptize everyone's child. I
can't baptize everybody that wants to be baptized. So I
(09:22):
can decide, well, I'm not going to baptize anybody. I'm
not gonna do any weddings. I'm not gonna do any funerals. Well,
that's to totally disengage. So I tell our staff all
the time. Just make sure you're engaged in ministry. Don't
feel like you have to do all the premarital counseling.
But hey, every once in a while take on a
couple and do their premieral counseling. You can't do every funeral,
but don't disengage from funerals. You can't do every wedding,
(09:43):
so make sure every once in a while you allow
somebody to schedule put us, you know, put a wedding
on you on your calendar. And again, as we've done that,
it basically releases ministry. We continue to model what we
want to model, We continue to practice what we preach,
but it keeps us from becoming so thin that again
we can't give a great deal of ourselves to anyone.
And so that's what I've tried to do. That's what
(10:04):
I've tried to model, and you know, I found that
it works.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
As a leader.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Every once in a while, I'll see a young leader
in our organization. I think, while here, she has a
lot of potential. But they're not a direct report. They're
not in my division, in my department. So the temptation
is well, since they don't report directly to me, since
they report to someone else, I hope they get developed
and I hope it all works out. And if I
give them special time and attention, then don't I need
(10:28):
to give a special time and attention to all the
young leaders? And so you know, again you can disengage
even from leadership development because of the same way of thinking.
So I've just ignored all that, and when I, you know,
see a young leader, I've developed a way to get
them involved in a group. I don't try to be fair.
I have hurt people's feelings. I have leaders ask me, hey, Andy,
I would like to be in your group, and I
(10:49):
just tell them, well, you know, this isn't a good
time for that. Or I'll even say well I handpicked
those leaders and I'm sorry. But again, which way do
I go? Do I involve all of them and end
up spending less time, you know, with more people, or
do I spend more time with fewer people. And great
leadership development always happens when you spend more time with
few people, and leaders are generally pretty good at picking
(11:12):
out the leaders in the organization. So again, I would
rather be engaged with the people I need to be
engaged with than disengaged in an attempt to be fair
or engaged with everyone and accomplish you know, virtually very little.
So there are huge ramifications for this principle. Do for one,
what you wish you could do for everyone. Don't try
(11:32):
to be fair, just make sure you stay engaged.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Andy, you have three just very practical tips on what
this looks like.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, I again, because you know, do for one what
you wish you could do for everyone. You know, what
does that look like? So here's here's three things to
kind of give some direction. Number one, go deep rather
than wide, Go deep rather than wide. And this is
what I was alluding to when I was talking about
leadership development.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Go deep rather than wide, says.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
I'm going to pick a handful of people and I'm
going to go deep with them, rather than spread myself
thin and just give a little bit of myself to
a whole lot of people. Now, this has to do
with subsets of leadership team, subsets of management teams. You know,
I have fifteen people on my leadership team, but there's
three or four of those individuals that I you know,
I just go deeper with. I have a group of
young leaders that I meet with every other Thursday morning
(12:20):
that I just handpicked from throughout the organization. You can't
sign up for it. It's not a list I'm working through.
I just hand picked them, and I'm trying to go
deep with these guys. And there are a lot of
people who won't ever be in that group, and it's
not fair, as I said, but I'm very, very engaged.
So when possible, go deep rather than why The second
one is to go long term rather than short term.
(12:40):
I could you know, I could spend you know, thirty
minutes with one hundred people and there's nothing to show
for that. There's just not And so you know, giving
more of my time to fewer people and going long term.
So again my example with this group, I told this
group of our next generation leaders, hey, I want to
meet for a year. This isn't three times. We're not
going through a career. I really want to go long
(13:02):
term rather than short term. I say to our pastors,
if you're going to get involved with a couple that's
struggling in their marriage, commit a year. Don't don't just
meet with them three times and pat yourself on the
back and say, well I did some marriage counseling. Come on,
you know you don't fix a marriage with three thirty
minute or hour sessions. If you're going to help a
couple grapple with the real issues of marriage or parenting,
(13:22):
that's a long term commitment. And I can't make a
long term commitment to eight couples, but I can make
a long term commitment to one couple. So again there
are multiple applications, but at the end of the day,
you know, go long term rather than short term. And
then the third one, you know, is very context specific,
and that is go time, not just money. It's tempting
(13:43):
to just write a check to a charity, it's tempting
to write a check to a couple in need or
an individual in need. And I say, look, you know,
give your money wherever you want to give your money,
but in one of you know, pick a charity, pick
an organization, pick a family, and don't just give them money,
give them your time. Again, you, for one, what you
wish you could do for everyone? Don't you wish everybody
(14:03):
could volunteer there? Don't you wish everybody could give time
to a struggling family, or a struggling kid, or a
you know, a young man or a young woman from
a difficult that has a difficult home life. So don't
just give time, I mean, excuse me. Don't just give
money when it's appropriate, when it's possible, give time. And
so when a leader models those three things what we've
(14:23):
seen here, it gives people permission to say no. It
gives people permission to avoid disengaging or on the other extreme,
engaging with everyone. And as everyone in an organization embraces
this value, the impact is phenomenal because again, it moves
us away from fairness, it moves us into engagement, and
(14:44):
it's an engagement that change actually takes place. And then
it allows me, going back to our introduction for this
entire podcast, it allows me to decide who gets my
time and I don't have to apologize for that. It
allows me to say to people that used to get
a lot of my time, you're not going to get
this much time anymore because I need to do for
(15:05):
one what I wish I could do for everyone. And
the landscape has changed, the organization has changed, and again
this becomes a value that's so much a part of
the conversation, so much a part of the culture in
an organization that everyone benefits.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Ultimately, Andy, I know there's a story from your dad's
life actually that illustrates this do for one idea. Tell
us that story.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Oh yeah, I love this, and I remember when my
dad told me this years ago. This is one of
those stories that every once in a while, when on
with a group, I'll say, Dad, tell him, you know,
tell them that story. This is one of those. My
dad had just finished high school. He felt like that
God wanted him to be a preacher. He felt called
to preach. His single mom, she worked in a textile mill.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
They had.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
When I say they had no money, they had no money,
I mean he grew up very, very poor. He delivered newspapers.
That was where his money came from. And he took
some of that money and helped he and his mom,
you know, live and eat and live indoors, you know.
And so one evening he was standing out out of
his church, he says, undersneath the street light, the way
he paints the picture, you can see it. And he
was talking to a friend of his, a guy named
(16:06):
Julian Phillips.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
And this was an adult.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
My dad had just graduated from high school or was
about to. He's talking to this man, Julian Phillips, and
he was telling him that he felt called to preach,
and he wanted to go to college, but he didn't
have any money and he didn't think he'd ever be
able to go to college. And while they were talking,
the pastor of the church walked out, walked across the street.
My dad says his name was Reverend Hammock. He still remembers.
Walked across the street and this Julian guy called the
(16:29):
pastor over and said, Reverend Hammock, Charles, that's my dad.
Charles feels like maybe God's calling him to preach and
he wants to go to college. Do you think we
could help him out? And so Reverend Hammick said, hey, Charles,
I want you to come see me next week. And so,
sure enough, my dad went in to see his pastor
and Reverend Hammick said, you know what, tell me your stories.
(16:49):
And my dad said, I you know, I want to
go to college. I feel like God's calling me to ministry.
And this Reverend Hammick said, well, let me see what
I can do. My dad leaves, time goes by, he
graduates from high School's head into that summer between high
school and college with no plans, he said. He said,
about two months went by and he got a call
from Reverend Hammock and he said, Charles, I've worked it
out for you to go to the University of Richmond
(17:11):
on a four year scholarship. How does that sound, well,
my dad said, this sounded wonderful, and my dad says,
I think I showed up at college with like twenty
seven dollars in my pocket and that was it. Now,
the point of the story is, you know how many
scholarships could Reverend Hammock work out for guys that feel
like they might feel called to ministry.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Not many.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
And it would have been so easy to say, well,
you know, I can't send all of our high school
graduates to college. I can't send every kid who feels
like God wants them to preach to colle Mean, I
can't do it for everyone, but here's a guy who understood,
you know what. I can't do it for everyone, but
I can do it for this one kid.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And oh my gosh. You know, truth is, I probably
wouldn't have been born.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
You know, based on when my dad and mom met,
you know, I mean, you know, think about the trajectory
of his entire life, which change in the lives of
untold numbers of people, because one pastor decided, you know what,
I'm going to go deep, I'm going to go long,
I'm going to go time, and I'm gonna go money
and do whatever I can to help this one high
(18:17):
school graduate get into college. Now I imagine you know, some
of our podcast listeners they're thinking of their own story
or their parents' story. I mean, we see this multiplied
over and over and over. So the challenge for us
is not to get caught up and trying to be fair,
not to get caught up and trying to do for everyone,
and not retreat to doing for no one, but to
(18:37):
ask the question, Hey, what would our world look like,
what my organization look like if I did for one
what I wish I could do for everyone. And maybe
this sounds a bit grandiose, but I think if everyone
did for one what they wish they could do for everyone,
ultimately that could impact the entire world.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Andie, thanks so much for spending this time with us today,
and thanks to all of our listeners for joining us
the Connected Accomnected
Welcome to the Andy Stan Lead Leadership Podcast from the Vault.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Before we get into.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Today's content, I want to tell you about a resource
that our friends at Blay created to help leaders focus
on their priorities and make a clear plan to maximize productivity,
which is what is most important to most of us
right anyway, Being in charge of really any organization, in
large or small, requires time, your valuable time, and your energy.
And if you're not intentional, I mean, if we're not
(00:31):
intentional with setting a work routine and finding our productivity rhythm,
our schedules easily get filled up with meetings, miss leneous
tasks that prevent us from doing what only we can do.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
As a leader. And this is where Blay can help.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
With exceptional US based virtual assistance accounting professionals and social
media managers, Blay's flexible staffing solutions will free you up
to focus on what matters most. To help you get started,
Blat is offering a free download of their ebook, Rise
Up and Lead Well, Rise.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Up and Lead Well, Let's face it. The sooner a leader.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Accepts that it's okay to ask for help, the sooner
they can get back to focusing on what only they
can do, and the more sustainable and productive their workdays become.
This resource provides valuable insights about how leveraging an assistant
will change your.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Life and maximize your time.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Don't miss out on the opportunity to receive this free
download of Rise Up and Lead Well. To claim the offer,
text the word Andy to five five one two three.
That's a n d y to five five one two three.
And now let's dive into today's content from the vault.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, The conversation designed
to help leaders go further faster. On today's podcast, we're
going to explore how to respond to the increased demands
on a leader's time. Andy, we first talked about this
topic on the podcast a little over a year ago,
but it's so important we felt like it warranted more discussion.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, I'm not sure we could ever talk about this
too much. The harsh reality of leadership is that the
more successful we are, the less accessible we become. The
more successful we are, the less accessible we become. And
the truth is from more most leaders we want to
be more accessible because there are more people to be
accessible to. But it just it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So any accessibility really is a casualty of a growing
ministry or organization.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, And the truth is it should be. As things
grow and as more people are involved, a leader can't
be equally accessible to all people. And so then we're
faced with the dilemma of who gets my time and
who doesn't, When do they get it, and how much
of it do they get?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
So it's kind of like having engine trouble in a Ferrari.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, exactly, it's a successful person's problem. It's only the
person in a growing organization, whether it's ministry or a business,
that has the problem of why there are too many
people I need to be with. There's too many people
I need to give my time to.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Well what are the I guess common reactions you see
when a leader faces this for the first time.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Well, there's two things. I think.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Initially, we all try to be all things to all people,
and we all try to continued to be as accessible to.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Everyone as we always have been.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
And I one of the most difficult transitions I made
in our organization was several years ago when I had
to reorg our entire leadership team. And again, I, like
most leaders, I thought, oh, I can figure this out.
I'm constantly giving advice in this area. So I just
sat down with my list and I decided I would
figure out the reorg and I couldn't do it.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I just couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And the reason I couldn't do it I did not
want to become less accessible to people I had been
very accessible to in some cases for years and in
some cases from the beginning. And so I, you know,
I had five or six people, you being one of them,
who had been here from the beginning. I didn't want
to become less accessible. At the same time, I had
new members of the management team that I needed to
be accessible to. And I finally gave up and hired
(03:45):
a consultant and brought them in and said, I can't
figure this out. And the bottom line was the exercise
was too emotional for me. And so, you know, that's
not unique to me. I think a lot of leaders
faced that. So actually he came in and took me
through several exercises that helped me bring some objectivity to
the you know, to the process. But then I had
(04:06):
to sit down with people i'd been very accessible to
and say, well, you're no longer going to be a
direct report, which means I'm not going to be as
accessible to you. But that was the only way to
grow this organization. So this is a constant struggle. There's
a lot of angst around this. So again, you know,
one of the ways people respond to this is they
refuse to deal with the reality I can't be as accessible.
(04:27):
The other extreme is to decide, well, since I can't
be accessible to everyone, I will be inaccessible to everyone.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I won't be accessible to anyone.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
And as time goes by and as people become more
and more successful, the temptation, I think, probably among men
more than women, is to become so autonomous that I
don't want to commit my time to anyone. And that's
a problem as well. So on one extreme, you're a
person is so thin they can't get things done. On
the other hand, they become so inaccessible because they can't
(04:59):
be as accessible as they used to be. That it
creates a different kind of problems. So somewhere in the middle,
leaders have to manage through this constant tension. It does
not go away. This is one of those problems that
is never solved. It is attention to manage, trying to
decide who gets my time and how much of the
time do.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
They get, Andy, When I've heard you talk about this,
I've heard you address that part of this is really
an awareness issue.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, it is, especially for those of us in ministry.
You know, in the old days, we just weren't aware
of what was happening in every country in the world.
Every natural disaster, every heart attack, every person who you
know finds out they have cancer, every family crisis. For
people in ministry who are listening, I mean, we are
so bombarded with tragedy and so bombarded with her Then we,
(05:43):
you know, open up our web browsers and read CNN
or Fox News or whatever about every abused child. You know,
it just goes on and on and on, and so
we're so bombarded with information, we're so bombarded with need,
and there's something in all of us or most of us,
that wants to fix the wants to meet all those needs,
and it's absolutely impossible. So again, I'm either going to
(06:04):
be stretched so thin that I'm no use to anyone,
or I'm just going to retreat and say, well, since
I can't fix all of it, I'm not even going
to try to be involved in any of it.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Well, Andy, that's obviously true in our case, but that's
true in the marketplace as well.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I mean marketplace leaders that think about it is they're
aware of what's going on in every market all over
the world twenty four to seven, how it impacts their industry,
how it might impact their industry. Suddenly you have to
give your attention to not three or four things, but
to a dozen things. You know, what's going on with
your competitors, which you know that's helpful information, but it
also brings complexity to the decision making model.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And again we.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Get stretched so thin that at some point we have
to back up and ask ourselves not only the question
of who am I going to be accessible to, but
what sources of information do I want to remain accessible to? Otherwise,
you know, again, we'll just retreat and hibernate, or we'll
be stretched so thin that we're really of very little
use to anyone.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
So Andy, as I hear you talking about this, it
seems that we're with one of two extremes. You can
either shut it all out or we can just take
it all on.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, and neither one of those works. If you take
it all on again, you're going to be very little
use to anyone. But at the same time, if you
were going to stay engaged in our organizations, stay engaged
in decision making, we can't afford to shut it all out.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
And Andy, finding a way to manage that tension led
you to a phrase that's become part of our culture
here at North Point, and that's do for one what
you wish you could do for everyone.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, we say that around here all the time. I
can't afford to disengage, but I can't afford to be
engaged with everyone. So do for one when you can
what you wish you could do for everyone. It's symbolic leadership,
and it's very, very powerful, and as we've seen, and
as we've talked about a year ago, it trickles down
through the whole organization.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Andy, one of the reasons you say that so many
of us avoid this as leaders is this tension we
feel to be fair.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, fairness is such a difficult thing. I don't even
try to be fair anymore. And that may sound terrible
coming from a pastor, but you know, we tell our
kids all the time, life isn't fair. And I've found
not only is life not fair, trying to be fair
generally leads to me to be disengaged. You know, growing up,
we heard this all the time. You know, if I
do this for you, I'll have to do it for everyone.
And I think we've adopted that into our adult world
(08:10):
and so consequently, if we can't do for everyone, we
do for no one. But even as kids, we knew
that there was a fallacy because if adults or parents
would say, well, if I give you a cookie, I
have to give everybody a cookie, and we were thinking, no,
you don't.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
You can just give me a cookie. I won't tell,
you won't tell. You know, everything's good.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So I think we should just abandon that whole way
of thinking that it should never be well, since I
can't do for everyone, I'm going to do for no one.
We should actually turn it around and say, well, I'm
going to do for one what I wish I could
do for everyone.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
And is that fair?
Speaker 1 (08:37):
No, it's not fair, But it forces me and it
allows me to stay engaged with someone even if I
can't be engaged with everyone. So it keeps us from
retreating to that I'm not going to do anything, and
it keeps us from feeling like we have to do
for everyone. Since we did for one, so it's due
for one what you wish you could do for everyone.
Don't try to be fair. Just make sure you're engaged.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
So Andie, how does that look in your world?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, this is hard for pastors, especially because as you know,
as pastors, we're supposed to be all things to all people,
and we don't like to tell people know, and we
don't like to tell people we can't meet with you ever,
you know, and so you know, when it comes to
the typical pastoral responsibilities, I can't do every wedding, I
can't do every funeral. I can't baptize everyone's child. I
can't baptize everybody that wants to be baptized. So I
(09:22):
can decide, well, I'm not going to baptize anybody. I'm
not gonna do any weddings. I'm not gonna do any funerals. Well,
that's to totally disengage. So I tell our staff all
the time. Just make sure you're engaged in ministry. Don't
feel like you have to do all the premarital counseling.
But hey, every once in a while take on a
couple and do their premieral counseling. You can't do every funeral,
but don't disengage from funerals. You can't do every wedding,
(09:43):
so make sure every once in a while you allow
somebody to schedule put us, you know, put a wedding
on you on your calendar. And again, as we've done that,
it basically releases ministry. We continue to model what we
want to model, We continue to practice what we preach,
but it keeps us from becoming so thin that again
we can't give a great deal of ourselves to anyone.
And so that's what I've tried to do. That's what
(10:04):
I've tried to model, and you know, I found that
it works.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
As a leader.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Every once in a while, I'll see a young leader
in our organization. I think, while here, she has a
lot of potential. But they're not a direct report. They're
not in my division, in my department. So the temptation
is well, since they don't report directly to me, since
they report to someone else, I hope they get developed
and I hope it all works out. And if I
give them special time and attention, then don't I need
(10:28):
to give a special time and attention to all the
young leaders? And so you know, again you can disengage
even from leadership development because of the same way of thinking.
So I've just ignored all that, and when I, you know,
see a young leader, I've developed a way to get
them involved in a group. I don't try to be fair.
I have hurt people's feelings. I have leaders ask me, hey, Andy,
I would like to be in your group, and I
(10:49):
just tell them, well, you know, this isn't a good
time for that. Or I'll even say well I handpicked
those leaders and I'm sorry. But again, which way do
I go? Do I involve all of them and end
up spending less time, you know, with more people, or
do I spend more time with fewer people. And great
leadership development always happens when you spend more time with
few people, and leaders are generally pretty good at picking
(11:12):
out the leaders in the organization. So again, I would
rather be engaged with the people I need to be
engaged with than disengaged in an attempt to be fair
or engaged with everyone and accomplish you know, virtually very little.
So there are huge ramifications for this principle. Do for one,
what you wish you could do for everyone. Don't try
(11:32):
to be fair, just make sure you stay engaged.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Andy, you have three just very practical tips on what
this looks like.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, I again, because you know, do for one what
you wish you could do for everyone. You know, what
does that look like? So here's here's three things to
kind of give some direction. Number one, go deep rather
than wide, Go deep rather than wide. And this is
what I was alluding to when I was talking about
leadership development.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Go deep rather than wide, says.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
I'm going to pick a handful of people and I'm
going to go deep with them, rather than spread myself
thin and just give a little bit of myself to
a whole lot of people. Now, this has to do
with subsets of leadership team, subsets of management teams. You know,
I have fifteen people on my leadership team, but there's
three or four of those individuals that I you know,
I just go deeper with. I have a group of
young leaders that I meet with every other Thursday morning
(12:20):
that I just handpicked from throughout the organization. You can't
sign up for it. It's not a list I'm working through.
I just hand picked them, and I'm trying to go
deep with these guys. And there are a lot of
people who won't ever be in that group, and it's
not fair, as I said, but I'm very, very engaged.
So when possible, go deep rather than why The second
one is to go long term rather than short term.
(12:40):
I could you know, I could spend you know, thirty
minutes with one hundred people and there's nothing to show
for that. There's just not And so you know, giving
more of my time to fewer people and going long term.
So again my example with this group, I told this
group of our next generation leaders, hey, I want to
meet for a year. This isn't three times. We're not
going through a career. I really want to go long
(13:02):
term rather than short term. I say to our pastors,
if you're going to get involved with a couple that's
struggling in their marriage, commit a year. Don't don't just
meet with them three times and pat yourself on the
back and say, well I did some marriage counseling. Come on,
you know you don't fix a marriage with three thirty
minute or hour sessions. If you're going to help a
couple grapple with the real issues of marriage or parenting,
(13:22):
that's a long term commitment. And I can't make a
long term commitment to eight couples, but I can make
a long term commitment to one couple. So again there
are multiple applications, but at the end of the day,
you know, go long term rather than short term. And
then the third one, you know, is very context specific,
and that is go time, not just money. It's tempting
(13:43):
to just write a check to a charity, it's tempting
to write a check to a couple in need or
an individual in need. And I say, look, you know,
give your money wherever you want to give your money,
but in one of you know, pick a charity, pick
an organization, pick a family, and don't just give them money,
give them your time. Again, you, for one, what you
wish you could do for everyone? Don't you wish everybody
(14:03):
could volunteer there? Don't you wish everybody could give time
to a struggling family, or a struggling kid, or a
you know, a young man or a young woman from
a difficult that has a difficult home life. So don't
just give time, I mean, excuse me. Don't just give
money when it's appropriate, when it's possible, give time. And
so when a leader models those three things what we've
(14:23):
seen here, it gives people permission to say no. It
gives people permission to avoid disengaging or on the other extreme,
engaging with everyone. And as everyone in an organization embraces
this value, the impact is phenomenal because again, it moves
us away from fairness, it moves us into engagement, and
(14:44):
it's an engagement that change actually takes place. And then
it allows me, going back to our introduction for this
entire podcast, it allows me to decide who gets my
time and I don't have to apologize for that. It
allows me to say to people that used to get
a lot of my time, you're not going to get
this much time anymore because I need to do for
(15:05):
one what I wish I could do for everyone. And
the landscape has changed, the organization has changed, and again
this becomes a value that's so much a part of
the conversation, so much a part of the culture in
an organization that everyone benefits.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Ultimately, Andy, I know there's a story from your dad's
life actually that illustrates this do for one idea. Tell
us that story.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Oh yeah, I love this, and I remember when my
dad told me this years ago. This is one of
those stories that every once in a while, when on
with a group, I'll say, Dad, tell him, you know,
tell them that story. This is one of those. My
dad had just finished high school. He felt like that
God wanted him to be a preacher. He felt called
to preach. His single mom, she worked in a textile mill.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
They had.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
When I say they had no money, they had no money,
I mean he grew up very, very poor. He delivered newspapers.
That was where his money came from. And he took
some of that money and helped he and his mom,
you know, live and eat and live indoors, you know.
And so one evening he was standing out out of
his church, he says, undersneath the street light, the way
he paints the picture, you can see it. And he
was talking to a friend of his, a guy named
(16:06):
Julian Phillips.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
And this was an adult.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
My dad had just graduated from high school or was
about to. He's talking to this man, Julian Phillips, and
he was telling him that he felt called to preach,
and he wanted to go to college, but he didn't
have any money and he didn't think he'd ever be
able to go to college. And while they were talking,
the pastor of the church walked out, walked across the street.
My dad says his name was Reverend Hammock. He still remembers.
Walked across the street and this Julian guy called the
(16:29):
pastor over and said, Reverend Hammock, Charles, that's my dad.
Charles feels like maybe God's calling him to preach and
he wants to go to college. Do you think we
could help him out? And so Reverend Hammick said, hey, Charles,
I want you to come see me next week. And so,
sure enough, my dad went in to see his pastor
and Reverend Hammick said, you know what, tell me your stories.
(16:49):
And my dad said, I you know, I want to
go to college. I feel like God's calling me to ministry.
And this Reverend Hammick said, well, let me see what
I can do. My dad leaves, time goes by, he
graduates from high School's head into that summer between high
school and college with no plans, he said. He said,
about two months went by and he got a call
from Reverend Hammock and he said, Charles, I've worked it
out for you to go to the University of Richmond
(17:11):
on a four year scholarship. How does that sound, well,
my dad said, this sounded wonderful, and my dad says,
I think I showed up at college with like twenty
seven dollars in my pocket and that was it. Now,
the point of the story is, you know how many
scholarships could Reverend Hammock work out for guys that feel
like they might feel called to ministry.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Not many.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
And it would have been so easy to say, well,
you know, I can't send all of our high school
graduates to college. I can't send every kid who feels
like God wants them to preach to colle Mean, I
can't do it for everyone, but here's a guy who understood,
you know what. I can't do it for everyone, but
I can do it for this one kid.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And oh my gosh. You know, truth is, I probably
wouldn't have been born.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
You know, based on when my dad and mom met,
you know, I mean, you know, think about the trajectory
of his entire life, which change in the lives of
untold numbers of people, because one pastor decided, you know what,
I'm going to go deep, I'm going to go long,
I'm going to go time, and I'm gonna go money
and do whatever I can to help this one high
(18:17):
school graduate get into college. Now I imagine you know, some
of our podcast listeners they're thinking of their own story
or their parents' story. I mean, we see this multiplied
over and over and over. So the challenge for us
is not to get caught up and trying to be fair,
not to get caught up and trying to do for everyone,
and not retreat to doing for no one, but to
(18:37):
ask the question, Hey, what would our world look like,
what my organization look like if I did for one
what I wish I could do for everyone. And maybe
this sounds a bit grandiose, but I think if everyone
did for one what they wish they could do for everyone,
ultimately that could impact the entire world.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Andie, thanks so much for spending this time with us today,
and thanks to all of our listeners for joining us
the Connected Accomnected
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