Can You Encounter God Through Psychedelics—or Is It a Deception?

Can psychedelics really connect you to God—or are they just another spiritual trap?

Check out Austin Mao's offerings at CeremoniaCircle.org !
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Have you ever wondered about psychedelics and plant medicine and
if it might be for you or not. Well, today's
guest on the podcast is Austin mau. He is with
Ceremoniacircle dot org. They do psychedelic healing retreats in Colorado.
He's a licensed facilitator and it was a really interesting conversation.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah, we talked about everything from who psychedelics are for,
who should be looking into this, and also who should
maybe stay away from it, if there's anybody who should
just stay far away, far away, Christians stay away. I
don't know. We got into it.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
So listen to the conversation. Let us know in the
comments what you think. Maybe you're interested, maybe you're not.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Love it or hate it. Here it is Austin Mouth.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
But before we get into the episode, we want to
talk about our next retreat, which is going to be
in Sedona, Arizona. It's going to be February twenty sixth
through March first, twenty twenty six All the details, information
and tickets are up on true dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Go check that out.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
You heard it here first Sedona. Here we come Ufo.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Ali Highways in the Skyways.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
There's UFOs in the highways and the byways. You can
see them as far as they I can see.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
We're gonna have a lot of fun. We're gonna have
group meals together. We're gonna be staying together on a
beautiful property with a labyrinth. We'll be doing our sound
healing sessions, and maybe even a.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Little concert a concert, I don't know, yeah, true concert.
Why not become a staple in these things?

Speaker 3 (01:33):
So come join us for that.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Get all the information at truthseeka dot com and check
out this really cool episode we had with Austin Mouth.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Here it is got to watch some of your interviews
and hear a little bit about your story. And one
thing that she pointed out whenever we were watching it
with our community last Thursday was that you went like
super deep, really quick. We got to learn a lot
about you being honorable with some of the things you

(02:03):
experienced through your psychedelic retreats that you've been on before
and experienced healing from childhood trauma, past hurts that seemed
like buried or suppressed and didn't even know that you
you didn't even have memory of it. And this is
some This led to some really interesting discussions on our

(02:24):
Seier School call the other night, and so we were
so excited to have you on and talk about ayahuasca,
psilocybin and what you're doing over there in Denver, Colorado.

Speaker 4 (02:36):
Oh thank you. Yeah. For those that are just listening
to audio, they probably can't see me blushing.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
I always like to start at the beginning, just you know,
kind of give that Genesis story, which which we you know,
we watched some of your other interviews and stuff, but
I think the audience needs some contacts and stuff. So
if you just want to start from the beginning of
like who you are, what you do, what you're bringing
to the table, and we just start there.

Speaker 4 (03:06):
Great, happy to do that. It's funny. I was just
giving a live training today for a community called Heart Mind.
Several hundred people attended, and so I feel like I'm
recapping that on you know, on paper. I'm a keynote speaker,
spoken at Ted x Mine Valley, Richard Branson's first psychedelic summit,

(03:30):
et cetera, co founder of Ceremonia, where it's the leading
psychedelic retreat in the US, legal and nonprofit in Colorado.
But as we're starting in the beginning, I'll take you
back to a few years ago, six years ago, when
I was just an entrepreneur. A lot of people don't
know this, but when I started my own healing path

(03:52):
with the plant medicine, in this case with alhahuasca, I had,
I was the largest airbnb operator in Las Vegas. So
you could just imagine we were hosting two thousand guests
a month, that I would come out of a ceremony
and be wobbly and just met God and field a
phone call with people telling me they're hearing gunfire or

(04:13):
or or the police have been called, or there's a
turd in the toilets and they don't know what to do,
and it's just you know, And at that time, I
was like wondering, what is actually happening for me or
what's happening with my life. The memory that you know
that you shared the story that I've shared, is that

(04:34):
in the first time I went on a healing retreat,
I didn't know what I was getting myself into. I
thought it was a networking opportunity. So I was like, Oh,
here we go. I'm going to go journey with forty
nine other founders and entrepreneurs in the Mexican jungle with
some new medicine called ayahuasca. What could this possibly show

(04:55):
me that I haven't seen before? You see, I've already
been to burn Man and a bunch of times and
festivals and camping with friends, and was very familiar with mushrooms,
with LSD with other substances. So I went in with
a bit of a chip on my shoulder. The first
time I had medicine. I'll never forget this memory. I

(05:17):
had this vision. It's kind of like have you ever
had like a dream that felt so real that when
you woke up, it was hard to distinguish what was
actual reality? Right, It felt so real in your body,
like I was having that experience, except it was being
enveloped by my mom, and I was a young boy,

(05:37):
and I felt this encompassing all engulfing love that I
didn't have a memory of before. And then meeting my
father who had passed four years prior, and introducing to
him my then wife, and it was just it was
this grief mixed with such elation and catharsis because I

(06:00):
didn't even know I was missing that in my life.
I thought I had quote unquote properly grieved him through
the Seven Steps of grief or whatever you know. But
I didn't know that I was missing the opportunity to
show in the man that I would become. But it
wasn't until the second night where I it was my
birthday and I asked for extra large dose. And when

(06:24):
I went under the medicine, I went in with this
curiosity of like to explore my memories. You see, at
that time, we had a workshop where we were asked
to recount memories from childhood, and I could barely pick
out anything. It was just a total haze, and even
just a few months back or a few years back,

(06:45):
was foggy to me. I've since talked to a lot
of people about this experience and it's not uncommon. But
what happened for me under the medicine with ayahuasca is
I started to relive my memories in vivid detail. So
you probably have heard that when before you pass, your
life flashes before your eyes.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Right.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
Imagine, I was watching the reel of my life, the
film of my life backwards, and I could feel the
pages of books as I turned them, touched the blades
of grass. I could remember turning my locker combination in school.
It was so vivid and I was going back and
back and back in time until I was a child
under sheets. I could feel the smallness of my body,

(07:26):
and then all of a sudden, I felt horny, and
I popped up in the yoga mat in the middle
of the jungle. There's you know, forty nine other people
having their experience. Connor over there is running around half naked,
yelling why are you trying to kill me? And it's
just wild out there, and I'm like, what could this be?
And when I closed my eyes, took a deep breath,

(07:47):
and went back into my experience, I realized that I
was touched as a boy at the age of four
in a way that felt confusing and shameful, but also
measurable and guilty, and just so many emotions that a
young boy's mind would be unprepared for. And I literally said,

(08:09):
oh my God. And I started going forward in time
with this new understanding not only of that original trauma,
but that my mind had repressed my capacity to hold
on to long term memory as a protective mechanism. You know,
I was a bully as a kid, I had sexual confusion.
As a teenager. I couldn't hold on to relationships or

(08:30):
passions or hobbies, because I would simply forget why I
chose them, why I loved them. And so all the
way to the present moment where I was lying on
that yoga mat, the scratchy wool on my skin of
a blanket, tears streaking down my eyes, and I told
the shaman what had happened. She says, oh, my god,

(08:51):
I'm so sorry, and I said, no, no, no, you don't understand.
I'm so grateful. I feel like I was cured of Alzheimer's.
Experience was life changing for me. Recently, I you know,
I spoke on stage at Mind Valley to a couple

(09:12):
hundred people and it was imparting this story. And at
that time, Mind Valley was doing a speaker training to
teach people how to do keynotes, to do speeches, and
we trained to tell these stories right, and it's like, okay,
pick a story in the past, like a chapter in
your life. But what I realized is that experience wasn't
a new chapter. It was a whole new sequel of

(09:34):
who I would become. And so from there I covid happened,
moved to Costa Rica, started pursuing the path of plant medicine,
came back, continued to lead retreats, ultimately become the director
of one of the most well known Ayahuascar retreats in
the world, and then founded Ceremonial as a nonprofit in Denver, Colorado,

(10:00):
and have since led more than fifty retreats, more than
six hundred individuals from high level fortune, five hundred executives
all the way to combat veterans and teachers and dentists.
And it's been quite the journey, to say the least.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
So how long ago?

Speaker 1 (10:20):
What year was this networking healing retreat that.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
You went to?

Speaker 4 (10:25):
That was right before COVID started, you.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Know, twenty so when you came out of that is
when you were kind of evaluating the job position, the
Airbnb and stuff, and that led you into wanting to
facilitate this for other people.

Speaker 4 (10:41):
You know, it was progressive, as I think many many
things are in life. In fact, when people conclude our retreat,
we tell them not to make sudden decisions, you know,
don't go leaving your marriage or your job or whatever.
And it took me time to let that go. But
what I did start doing is pursuing something that felt

(11:02):
more meaningful to me. What's interesting is is I thought
I was really happy back then, you know, and I
was the dude that you would see posting on Instagram
with my tesla's and my cars and you know, and
travel and just humble bragging all my first world problems.
And what I wasn't able to admit in the privacy

(11:26):
of my own heart is that I was really unhappy,
really didn't feel like there was meaning in my life.
And progressively, exponentially, I've been able to bring in so
much more purpose and meaning and inspiration to who I
am now.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, I had an Iahuasca journey. And the job thing
was that happened to me, Like when I came out
and I was working a job that I was passionate
about that was helping people, like I really loved the job,
and when I came out of it, I could, like

(12:06):
me as a Christian, I felt like I was more
connected to the Holy Spirit after like I was just
really open and so I felt like God and the
Holy Spirit was prompting me, like, hey, you're not really
supposed to be here anymore. And so even though it
was a job that I was passionate about, it's like
God took that passion and shifted it over and just

(12:27):
to a little bit of a different lane of helping people.
But I was really and my healing experience came actually
a little before ayahuasca, and it was with cacao and
breath work at one of our retreats. So the ayahuasca
was kind of like just the finishing touches.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
On my experience.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
But yeah, I think a lot of times we as
a society have been so conditioned to pull away from
nature and to pull into the concrete jungle and that
that that's our definition of success.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
But then when you.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
Get into that cage, it's.

Speaker 3 (13:08):
It's depression.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
But put a smile on your face anyway. And so
when we pull back and go back into plant medicines
and go back into nature and the things that have
been beckoning us all along, it may be a stripped
down version of our life, like not wearing shoes versus
wearing the Jordans, but the happiness is there, the connection
is there with our brothers and sisters in nature and

(13:31):
each other. Like I had pulled back from people a
lot and just decided I was an introvert and didn't
like people. And what I came to find out is
I love people. I just was so unhappy in my
grief and in my situation.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
I was in.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
Thank you for sharing that story. Yeah, I'm really resonating
with how you felt like you were in something meaningful
for you and then and the pivot was to something
that was even more meaningful to you.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
It reminds me of a story of one of my
good friends, Eric Amedes, who's in the Kinnot Speaker. He
tells his story of how he goes to the Aboriginal
tribe every year in Africa, the Hazad tribe, and one
time he asks them, you know, asks their chief do
you ever feel depressed? And they're like, what is depression?

(14:27):
And the chief says and then he says, you know
when you feel maybe he's like sad for a period
of time, and he's like, ah, yes, we do feel
depression sometimes one or two days. Yeah, I was just
like wait a second, one or two days. You know,
you spoke about return to nature and I heard you

(14:50):
use the word or maybe this word that I concocted, simplicity, right,
and this concrete jungle, these zoom calls, these apparatuses, they
bring so much complexity in to our lives. But if
we really take a breath and look at when are
the moments where we've felt the most safe, the most relaxed,
the most easeful in our life. I would bet you

(15:13):
that the majority of people would find the majority of
those memories to be something really, really really simple, holding
a loved one, holding a pet, lying on a beach,
camping with friends, et cetera. And so it begs the
question why, right, like why do we pursue more and

(15:35):
more and more? But one of the things that I
share before ceremony, something that my teacher imparted to me,
is that we always ask ursis why why this? Why? Why? Mommy? Why? Daddy?
But maybe the right question is to ask how how

(15:56):
can we experience our life more? How can we feel
more joyfulness and more peace, more surrender, more presence or connection?
Like how Maybe it's not about the why. Maybe it's
the skills and the process to develop how to bring

(16:17):
into our lives what we really really want.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
You mentioned being a part of this networking event that
you went to, and it was a ayahuasca retreat medicine
retreat and different people. You know, it sounds like there
was maybe entrepreneurs involved and stuff, and so like what
types of people come to the retreats and ceremonies that

(16:45):
you guys host. Is it people who are just broken
and at the end of their road? Is it people
who were addicted? You know, we know those people are
like at the end of their rope? Is it people
that are just curious? Like? Is it okay to come?
If you're just curious that have to really call you
and beck becking you and almost pull you?

Speaker 3 (17:03):
Like?

Speaker 2 (17:04):
What what type of people end up showing up? Like
on on, like this spectrum of personalities? If you will? Uh,
is it is you know rappers? Do? Do rappers show up?
Podcast host?

Speaker 4 (17:19):
Truth you want to come? We've had all sorts truth
be told. At the beginning, you know, the people that
were coming were my contacts and roloduxes, right, So these
were largely entrepreneurs and tech people, et cetera, because that
was a field that I was in. But once that,

(17:42):
once we got more and more popular and we became
a top search result on Google, we started getting everybody.
You know, We've had one guy justin combat, veteran of
two tours, who came with one of the deepest levels
of pain and suffering that I've ever experienced. He would

(18:02):
stand in the corner and not want to talk to anybody,
and even closing his eyes in a meditation was unavailable
to him because as soon as he closed his eyes
so much trauma would arise that it would be deeply unsettling,
you know. And by the end of the retreat he
was dancing and giggly and laughing, laughing, and this shy

(18:24):
man said that he wants to be on stage and
share this with the world. You know, we've also had
a guy named Ron who Harvard Professor Emeritus of psychiatry
and ran the entire Eastern seaboard of the US Army's
psychiatry for forty years. And you know, when he came,

(18:48):
he got he relayed that in his first experience, he
felt a tidal wave of the forty years of soldiers'
emotions and people that he's helped, many of whom died
or committed suicide, like a tidal wave of that in
his body. But ultimately his journey was less about that

(19:10):
and more about his kids. You know, we've had we've
actually had a rapper, We've had many musicians, we've had
many Christians. My mother is deeply devout Christian and the
president of Unity Church has come, and he would have

(19:31):
a picture of Jesus Christ on his altar and he
said that it was the most connected he's ever felt
to christ consciousness before. And we had someone who ultimately
became a co facilitator, who was a Catholic priest for
twenty five years and then a zen monk and then
became one of the world's top psychologists. And in his

(19:51):
experience with plant medicine and then later with ayahuasca, with
silicibon and later with ayahuasca, he would kind of reclaim
his priesthood, which was disillusioning to him after he represented
a Catholic church for the UN in Africa. You know.
So we've had everybody and and you know, to the

(20:12):
question of like who's this appropriate for, you know, we've
had people at the end of the rope. We had
a participant share that just before coming he had ordered
a gun and and then he booked this retreat. And
then now this man is not only thriving, but in
a loving relationship that he never predicted and and I'm

(20:38):
hoping to get a wedding invitation soon. Yeah, So it's
really it really works for everybody. Now as to the
people that are curious. I think that's a really interesting question.
There's a there's a lot of different curiosities out there,
and I would ask like, oh, why are you curious?
You know, what has you curious? And to really inspect

(21:01):
what is underneath that. I think some people come because
they have a curiosity about the spiritual domains, right right,
Like Aaron, it sounds like you unlocked something in your
spiritual pursuits and your spiritual beliefs, and maybe the curiosity
is around that, but also curiosity can be around connection

(21:24):
and how to bring more of that into your life.
So whatever the intention is, it's something that is really
powerful and available.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
So I know, I know we mentioned it right before
we started recording, but if we haven't. You do two
ceremonies a month, and did for Colorado at ceremonia with
psilocybin correct, and we.

Speaker 4 (21:49):
Do one retreat a month. One retreat, uh, and that
one retreat is six days with three ceremonies. Okay, so yeah,
so you're actually doing in sequence. Uh, it's like ceremony
on Wednesday, ceremony Thursday, and then a break day and
ceremony on a Saturday. And I can explain why you do.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
That and and then you do the ayahuasca retreats in
with it Coasta.

Speaker 4 (22:19):
Rica, Yeah, in near Cobos and Lucas, Mexico, Bahama.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Mexico, and the and those are every other month or
what's the what's the schedule? And those usually we.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
Do those twice a year. So right now it's February
and October.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, you know, I just wanted to to just you know,
because I think we're kind of talking about kind of
going back and forth with with both, and I would
say they, you know, have their similarities. You know, both
can be used for healing, for awakening. For you what

(22:53):
what are the big differences? You know, because because there's
a lot of people who hear about psilocybin that's smaller
versus ayahuasca. It's like the big you know, daddy or
big Mama. But you know, psilocybin could be very powerful
as well. But you know, are there differences? There is

(23:14):
one a little bit more gentle. I think people assume
that that's the way it's gonna be. But from your perspective,
what's the difference between working with the two medicines or spirits.

Speaker 4 (23:28):
Yeah, it's a good question. I get asked all the time.
So here's the thing about working with with prime medicine.
It's not just the medicine. Right. If us three right
now took mushrooms and sat in quiet, we would have
an experience. But there's a difference between that experience and
having a guided or facilitated experience. And then there's a

(23:50):
difference between a therapeutic model slash medical model and a
shamanic model. There's a difference between facilitators too.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
Right.

Speaker 4 (23:59):
For example, my teacher has been serving ayahuasca for over
a decade Grammy nominated musician, and sitting with him is
very different than your neighborhood Ayahuascatto Boulder, you know, Colorado.
So so I think it's really important that when we
talk about mushrooms versus aahuasca, it's not it's not in

(24:22):
a vacuum like it's about who is serving it too.
So at that said, you know, with with mushrooms, it
is much more readily available, and if you're in a
reasonable sized city like you can probably find somebody with
mushrooms who would be willing to facilitate you.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
Right.

Speaker 4 (24:42):
But when we do it here in Colorado, we do
it under a state regulated model where there is a
minimum of a six month training to get licensed. And
our practitioners are have getting PhDs, they are trained therapists,
they they're licensed. There's a standard of care there, Okay.
That I think is really important. And that standard of

(25:04):
care comes with trauma informed training, comes with training around psychopharmacology, contraindication.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Some and so forth.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
So there's a lot that's required by the state. In addition,
Ceremonia has a holistic model that combines the mindfulness practice
of the East, the therapeutic psychological models of the West,
and the shamanic models of the South. Okay, So I
think that's really important. Name around mushrooms. Ayahuasca is almost

(25:36):
exclusively held in a shamanic context. I'm not really familiar
with any ayahuasca practices other than Ceremonious. That comes with
sort of a synthesized Western, Eastern, Southern model. To become
a quote unquote shaman, one has to train in the
jungle by drinking ayahuasca every other day for years on end, right,

(26:00):
And with that comes a lot of beauty, but it
can also come with a lot of shadow and with
a lot of dogma. Right now, in terms of the
effect of the medicine, itself. Ayahuasca is often related to
as having grandmother energy, which is to say, it kind
of feels like there is something in there, a spirit,

(26:20):
an energy, a force, etc. Whatever you want to call it.
That feels like it's farying you with gentle but also
stern energy, kind of like a grandmother towards some realization. Right, Aaron,
as you nodding your head, I'm imagining you're like, Yep,
I saw something that I probably wasn't aware of before, right,
And it probably felt like there was a vehicle something

(26:42):
ushering you into that. Now, that is so beautiful and
extraordinarily powerful, but there comes a danger with that. The
danger is that without proper contexting, many people can believe
that it was the medicine that did that. The spirit
or ayahuasca, or the shaman or the or the music

(27:05):
or something external to me led me to that experience
of healing. What ends up happening, then is that we
start prescribing something outside of us to the healing inside
of us. And that can be really dangerous because then
when we go back to life and life continues to life.
I'm not carrying ayahuasca with me every day. I'm not

(27:28):
the shaman isn't by my side all the time when
I'm suffering. I am the one who is responsible for
my own feelings for how I respond with compassion and
curiosity instead of with bye flight or freeze? Does that
make sense totally? And so oftentimes the shamanic dogma comes

(27:49):
with this praise of the grandmother energy and medicine and spirits, right,
and the way that people can interpret that. And I've
seen this time and again it's like, ah, it was
aohasca that healed me. And I think what's extraordinarily important
for anyone looking at doing psychedelic work is to really
understand and really understand inside of you that you are

(28:11):
your own healer. That anything that you experience, even if
it feels like something outside of you, your experience it
through your own consciousness and you're choosing to allow something
to navigate you somewhere. And that is so important. So
I would recommend that people find a facilitator that has

(28:34):
great training and try mushrooms first, so that you can
kind of develop that skill of navigating yourself, of really
embodying that, hey, these are just tools, right, just like
a hammer is a tool, right, Instead of a hammer,

(28:55):
I could use a shoe. Probably not as good a tool,
but you know, to nail something end, but it's a tool,
and that tool just supports me in finding more of
myself instead of relying on the tool itself. Does that
make sense? Was that helpful?

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (29:13):
It was?

Speaker 1 (29:15):
And I believe really heavily too in frequency healing and
sound healing and color therapy, and even the plants that
that help us find our way. You know, they come
and carry a frequency and a lot.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Of people believe.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
I can't remember the author's name, but there was a
book we listened to recently that the lady was speaking
of plant medicine even even like just dandelions, you know,
to increase your heart and heal your heart physically, but
that you don't have to take even the physical form
of the plant that you That these plants have spirits

(29:54):
and you can literally ask assistance from the spirit of
the plant instead of ingesting it. And they're almost like
little angelic helpers that can come and guide you and
help you. At our retreats, we're really big on breath work.
We like to drink the cow as well as a
plant medicine, but we lean into some of the more

(30:16):
gentler plant medicines and the breath, because the breath is
something we always have with us for that reason that
people can have a powerful experience without anything outside of themselves,
that they truly do have the power within to remove
these blockages. And we do have many angelic helpers all

(30:38):
around at all times willing to help if we just
ask them.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
But you spoke a little bit.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
About the dangers and that being a danger of ayahuasca.
Have you seen or do you caution people of any
other dangers between the two medicines, Like we personally have
heard testimony of people having like a psychotic break from
taking ayahuasca. Maybe I don't know if they didn't do
the prep work or it was the wrong.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Shaman or medications involved. Yeah, things like that. Is there
some is there? You know, we talk a little bit
about who it's for. Is there is there? Is there?
Is there someone that is not for that that you
can speak to.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
Yeah, So I think it's also useful to separate what
danger means, right, there's mental, physical, and spiritual danger that
I would I would like to separate mental. There are
some neuro divergent UH cases where it should absolutely not
be for and and this comes from the science. Typically

(31:43):
that's history of schizophrenia or schizophrenia in the family, or
bipolar type type one where people can have manic episodes. Right,
barring that in general, and I want to preface them
not giving medical advice, but what the science shows, but
contradic you know, psychopharmacology shows. In general, it is one

(32:04):
of the safest medicines on the planet. Mushrooms that is
so cybin which kind of makes sense. It grows everywhere,
and for that thing to not be safe, well, there'd
be a lot more dead people because of how prolific
it is. Yeah, So it's being studied for all sorts

(32:26):
of things, from some of the most difficult to treat
elements like anorexia, all the way to positive psychology, bettering
the well and high performance. Right. Microducing, for example, is
very popular, especially in Silicon Valley and then everything in between.
So mushrooms is very, very well studied. It's been fast
tracked through the FDA and legalized in Oregon, Colorado, New

(32:51):
Mexico next. So I'd say if you're interested in some
form of psychedelic healing, like that's a really good starting place.
Ayahuasca tends to be less studied now, DMT has more
studies than ayahuasca, and d MT is the active psychotropic
molecule in in ayahuasca as a plant, but ayahoasca contains
so many other things. For example, I get his name.

(33:18):
It is contraindicated with with SSRIs because it as a
serotogenic effect. And so if you are taking SSRIs like
you must must must wean off of it before you
go and take that substance, right, otherwise that can create
very detrimental physical effects. Now in terms of mental like

(33:42):
who it's not for, I'm gonna kind of give you
a framework that I think about. All of these psychedelics
are accelerants. Right, If one hundred years ago you wanted
to pursue the path of enlightenment, you would have to
become a horny monk on a mountaintop, right and meditate

(34:04):
your way deck for decades to reach that. Today you
can go get a ketamine injection, or you can go
to a retreat and get to touch the very tip
of consciousness. Right, But that's like getting on a rocket chip.
It's not a gentle cruise control up to there, and

(34:27):
so when you come back down it can be disorienting.
The reason why my mind repressed that traumatic memory is
because my mind wasn't able to handle it back then.
And when I've worked with combat veterans who who have
seen horrific things in front of them, their mind is
also repressing things because it can handle it right. And

(34:49):
so when you flip that switch, there can be a
lot of beauty and healing in it, but it also
really needs support, integration support, and that's why I also
think community connection and therapeutic support is really really important.
So with that said, basically I think of it as

(35:13):
this way. There are two variables. It's your mental stability, right,
if you've had decades of depression and suicidal ideation and
stuff like that, you need a more skillful facilitator and
a more developed integration plan to hold you in that.
If you consider yourself a high performer with lots of
psychedelic experience, then maybe you can you know, you can

(35:37):
get away with something less advanced or prolific. Does that
make sense? So that's sort of the mental danger. The
spiritual danger is that it really comes to this and
I'll provide as a recommendation if you're seeking a facilitator
out one of my top recommendations to challenge their beliefs. Right, So,

(35:58):
Aaron I decided to facilitate psychedelics, I might challenge you
to say, how do you know Jesus is real? Right?
And if that person that you're challenging gets upset or
says just trust me or something like that, maybe they
don't have the room to support you in discovering your
own beliefs, right, Because Aaron, if you went to a

(36:20):
facilitator and they were like, no, we don't believe in
Jesus here, we believe in something else, right, then maybe
it's not the right place for you to, you know,
find what's true for you. Does that make sense totally?
And so the spiritual danger is is if I whispered

(36:40):
in your ear Buddha right before you took medicine, well
you might see Buddha and start changing your spiritual beliefs
towards that.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
Right.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
So the danger spiritually is to find a container that
can create room for you to discover yourself for yourself.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah, it does.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
Cool.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
You mentioned microdosing, and there's a lot of people speaking
highly about microdosing psilocybin. There's tons of studies of of
of how it can help remove anxiety, help creativity, help
to feel calm and okay in the body instead of
getting on an SSRI I or something like that. Amazing

(37:28):
studies out there. When it comes to microdosing ayahuasca. Have
you have you heard about that? I know there's there's
people talking about that and and buying tinctures from different
people online. I don't know if half of it's even
even real, to be honest with you, but you know
that that kind of thing. I guess across the spectrum.
I know people who were prescribing real ayahuasca for microdosing

(37:54):
and then people just on random websites buying what somebody
labeled it ayahuasca microdosing. And is that even a thing.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
It is a thing. It's pretty small community that does that.
And again, buyer beware, a lot of people don't even
know that. The vast majority of of of psilocybin edibles
that are sold are actually not psilocybin. It's it's called silicetin,

(38:26):
which digests in the body to silicon, which is the
same psychotropic as psilocybin digests to the same thing with ayahuasca.
Like probably this is my guess. The vast majority of
ayahuasca that is sold as something edible or consumable in
a microtoves format online is probably not ayahuasca. It's probably

(38:50):
what we would call pharm awuasca, which is the synthesized
d M T plus the m AOI the So first,
just buy er beware on like what the substances you're getting.
You know you're getting it from Joe Schmoe from eBay,
probably something you want to validate or second guests. With

(39:14):
that said, the first thing I want to state is,
like the lead researcher in the field. His name is
Robin Cart Harris and runs the car At Harris Lab
in you see San Francisco, and before that the ran
the lab in the Perial College of London Center for
Psychedelic Studies. So this is the most experienced individual in

(39:37):
psychedelic research. And he recently released the study he was
on our podcast called Modern Enlightenment. He recently released the
study that showed that microdosing without therapeutic support actually doesn't
show any positive benefit relative to place ebo. So what
that means is, if you're microdosing, if this study is valid,
which was rigorously proved scientifically, if you're my producing without

(40:01):
coaching or without community or without some sort of like
and therapeutic support could mean maybe like reading a therapeutic
book or mental health book. It's it could be placible
that is actually getting you what you believe are the effects,
the long term enduring effects. So I would encourage anybody

(40:22):
considering microdocing to combine that with some form of self
development work, and I think you'll get huge benefits that way. Okay,
with regards to microducing ayahuasca, I've never done that myself. Frankly, Aaron,
I'm sure you know from having done ayahuasca that it's

(40:44):
not something you crave to drink, No, even the whiff
of it. I'm like, oh, I've heard of benefits of it.
I couldn't comment it onlin myself. I've only done macrodosis
of that.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
M well, and it would be odd, I think to
have a micro dose of that because it's not just
a plant medicine or like a teacher of a plant.
It's a mixture of different things together. So well, I
think it would be difficult to create and actually dosa
micro dose of true ayahuasca.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
Yeah, I probably, you know. I think it's I think
what people are targeting is some enduring effect, right, and
support in keeping that experience going, so that as you
as you said, truth like it kind of is intended
to replace an act to depressant or something like that.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Right.

Speaker 4 (41:43):
And the vast majority of people that come to us
on some form of my pharmaceuticceutical don't take it. Again,
that's not medical advice. That's just how the experience that
we've had. And they have gone onto micro dos and
some have not. But what we find is that the

(42:05):
number one factor in keeping something endearing is connection. If
you feel supported, if you feel safe, if you feel
able to be vulnerable with others. You know, connection is
the opposite of addiction, like that's that's where the magic is.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
And so.

Speaker 4 (42:28):
The energy that would pour into microcurritics and something of
that I think could be better spent in the pursuit
of connection.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
M It's a very good point.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Are when is your next retreat? And uh that you
have openings.

Speaker 4 (42:47):
For oh well, everything can be found on our website
at Ceremonial Circle dot org. We have I think it's
jenerally fifteen or sixteen to twenty one, and then we
have one I don't know when this is being released,

(43:08):
but we have one December sixteen to twenty one, and
then January sorry, thirteen to eighteen. Our February ayahuasca retreat
is February two to eight and then we have retreats
every month after that.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Yeah. Nice, And they can find all that at the website.

Speaker 4 (43:26):
Yeah, Ceremonial Circle dot org.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
So it sounds like it's, you know, it doesn't have
a certain person. I know, most of the stories you
know that kind of go viral is definitely the psychoonot,
the person who's curious about traveling in the spiritual dimensions
and talking to entities and finding out information and things
like that. I think that makes it really I mean,

(43:52):
it's just tons of interviews and things out there that
kind of go viral with that. But also I think
what that you know, the close place, close to home
is the people who are looking for healing, the people
who have unresolved trauma obviously either known or unknown right
in your in your case, being able to kind of

(44:13):
go deep with those things and just allowing the plants
and the facilitators to do what they do and kind
of uproot anything that doesn't need to be there, anything
that's kind of blocking the flow of energy, of creativity,
of love, whatever it is, I find it. That's you know,
really good at that, just kind of finding those blocks

(44:33):
that you've become unaware of. Because if it was something
that you could have dealt with in your day to day,
I'm sure you already would have, and most people would
if they could, you know, do it on their own,
they would have did it a long time ago. But
many times we need help. And I love the fact
that that there is natural medicines out there that are

(44:55):
that are here to help us.

Speaker 4 (44:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
I think a lot of times too people have been
through something traumatic, like a sexual abuse or something like that,
and they may have done the work to think that
they've healed from it. But when you go through and
these medicines call you and you go through a ceremony
like that, it may reveal you know, you thought you
healed from that, but it's still affecting you in these ways,

(45:23):
or it's still trapped in your body in a different form,
because we hold all our trauma in our body unless
we properly release it. And I know that I found
that to be the case for me. I was holding
a trauma in my body and it was totally affecting
me physically, mentally, and spiritually. So you might even have
been through something like oh yeah, I healed from that.

(45:45):
Well you might be surprised. It might still be living
with you in some ways.

Speaker 4 (45:51):
Yeah, It's something I think about often because I do
a lot of work with high performers. Fortunately much exacs
and Silicon Valley people, et cetera. Is something called the
upper limits problem. Have you heard of this? So you know,

(46:12):
I'll just name the practice site.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
You know.

Speaker 4 (46:15):
I did this from stage and mind Value. I ask
people to recount a memory of great love or joy
in their life, right, and we take a deep breath,
close our eyes to five hundred people in the audience,
and just allow ourselves to feel that, and then raise
a hand on the first distracting thought that comes in
and I time it, and at the beginning of my

(46:36):
one hour talk, people start raising their hands and usually
it's like thirteen seconds to about twenty five seconds that
people have that distracting thought. Right now, think about that
for a moment. This is a feeling that you want
to have. We chase after moments of love or joy
or peace. Yes, but when we experience that, we can

(47:00):
only hold onto it. For thirteen to twenty five seconds.
What happens with that is we chase after the quantity
of these short bursts of feeling instead of being able
to hold the quality of it, to be able to
imagine if you can hold an experience that you want
in your life of connection, let's say for a minute,

(47:23):
for five minutes, for ten minutes, for your whole life.
When I lasted this, I think I clocked in at
like ten minutes or something like that. And what that
is demonstrating or illustrating to me, and this is something
I've really worked on, is that I'm able to bring

(47:44):
myself into a deeper presence and a deeper abundance of
the experience that I want. And so instead of chasing
after popping the bottles of champagne or winning the awards
or getting praise from my friends or the Instagram likes,
I'm able to allow for moments of eye contact, holding
holding a gaze, holding a hug, petting my dog, smelling

(48:07):
his fur, you know, and just like really enjoy that
moment more and more and more. So this upper limit
syndrome is there because for me, at least, the feeling
of anxiety is so familiar because when I was raised,
my parents were skips so scared about not making enough money.
They were I was moving all the time, so on

(48:29):
and so forth, and so it's it's what's the saying
is like the devil you know is preferable to the
one you don't, or something like that. It's like we
actually unconsciously live through a familiar experience rather than the
experience we think we want, which is that of love
or peace or joy. Does that make sense? And so

(48:53):
how can psychedelics help with that? Well, psychedelics peels back
that veil and allows you to experience something and if
you have proper guidance and facilitation, right, Like a practice
that we do in ceremonia is help you actually identify
what that feeling is when you want something. I want
to be on this podcast, I want to be on stage.

(49:14):
I want this car, I want this house, I want
this relationship. What we actually want is not the thing.
We want the feeling we believe we will have when
we get the thing. Does that make sense? Yeah, Sure,
I get this car. I'm gonna feel excited okay when
you when I get this relationship, I'm going to feel love. Okay,

(49:34):
you actually want that feeling that you that you have.
So so the problem is that we chase after the things,
not actually clear about what the feeling is that we want.
So what if we got clear about the feeling how
it feels in our body?

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Right?

Speaker 4 (49:53):
If I use a word like love for letters, how
many volumes of books or reels of film have been
created to attempt to communicate what that word means? Right?
Have we loved the same people? I hope not? But
somehow I can look at you and you can look
at me and be like, hey, have you are you
feeling love?

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (50:12):
Me too, and we can trust that that's there. No
one ever explained to you what love is. You didn't
read it in a book and be like, oh, okay,
now I know what it is. You felt it before,
and through that feeling, you're like, ah, this is what
it must be like. So, with that said, getting really
really really clear on what that sensation is like in

(50:35):
your body, what the actual experience of it is like?
Is it lightness? Is this expansion? Is it an inhale?
Is it a fullness? Is a what's the color of it?
What's it? Some support so that once you know what
that feeling is precisely, Like for you, you can go and
use that as a compass to get that feeling more
of in your life, and when you actually feel it,

(50:55):
you can be like, ah, here it is. It's the
feeling and allow more space for it. Instead of going
to the next car or the next wind or the
next relationship to try to search for the thing you
believe will give you the feeling, you can call on
that feeling more. Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (51:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (51:12):
And I think that when people really get honest with
themselves about that sensation and they bring it back down
to simplicity, like you might be surprised that looking at
the sun shining through the tree branches gives you that
sensation totally, or like seeing a spider web with dew
on it gives you that ah, there it is. And

(51:35):
so then you are able to, like you said, hold
more space for these moments that are all around.

Speaker 3 (51:41):
You all day.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
But we're too distracted and self focused to go out
and notice the sensations.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
Right.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:51):
So really, to come full circle to your question of
like who's this for truth, it's like, if you're not
feeling that feeling of your time in your life, well
maybe come and experience that really clear on what that
is and see how that might transform your way of being,

(52:12):
your priorities and what is what you care about what
you put energy towards.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Yeah, that makes so much sense. I've uh, I've kind
of summed it up in the past or just kind
of saying that, like you get a god's eye view
of your life and of your path from another perspective
that is that it is loving, that is like not judgmental,
and it actually is. It feels like it's going to
help you with those steps of you know too, how

(52:45):
you go where you want to go, Like what's the
next step. It's one thing just to show you what
love is or you got a idea, but like how
to actually get there and like, you know, sitting with
Psilocyb and I totally feel that like there's a third
person or a fourth you know, they're with you, there's

(53:05):
there's some there's somebody else. It's not just you, And
it's a it's a loving energy that that cares for you,
that is working with you, that knows everything about you
and kind of gives you another perspective. And uh, and
you know you talk about feeling love and we're chasing
these feelings and stuff like that, or we're chasing the thing,

(53:25):
but it's really the feeling. And to me, it seems
like love is just being okay. It's just being okay
with the way you are, the way things are, without
anything on top of it, like without any kind of caveat,
because we kind of put those things on top of it,

(53:46):
and uh that that becomes these caveats to say, I'll
be loved, if I'll be okay, if I'll be safe,
if and we if I have this, I'll be successful
if I get this next thing, but then we get
the next staying and then we need the next thing
because that feeling was only temporary, not knowing that we
had the feeling with us the whole time. And I

(54:10):
you know, it's my experience that that is one of
the things that plant medicines communicate with us that we
are okay right now, We're loved just the way we are,
We're perfect, and kind of helps kind of push those
things off of you or out of your view that
is obstructing your view from seeing the way seeing yourself
and your life, your situation, the way that God sees you,

(54:32):
which is through these like eyes and arms of love.

Speaker 4 (54:36):
Yeah, beautifully put. And I want to add just one
thing on top of that. Have you felt God before truth?

Speaker 2 (54:45):
I believe so yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (54:47):
And Aaron, have you.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Me too?

Speaker 4 (54:51):
And when we experience that, how do we experience it?
We experience it through the faculty of our consciousness, right.
Buddhism separates consciousness into four aspects thoughts, sensations, emotions, and

(55:13):
something called damas, which is just experience. Right, And I
would posit to you that when you when I've experienced God,
and when I think anybody have experienced anything, it is
something that is happening through our own consciousness, through our
own lens. And so in psilocybin or in ayahuasca, when
we're experiencing a monster or in experiencing an angel guiding us,

(55:38):
that's actually happening through us. And maybe there is something
external that is gently nudging, but even if that's the case,
it is still through your own experience that that's happening.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
And so.

Speaker 4 (55:54):
You know, if God is communicating through us, it is
communicating through us, is coming to us through us? Does
that make sense? And that's something that I think is
so valuable for people to have a first hand experience
of because there's a very big difference from me saying, hey, truth,
God is here right now, as often happens in church, right,

(56:17):
they're like, Jesus is here right now. There's a very
big difference between that and you feeling in your own
body that Jesus is here right now. Does that make
sense for between me telling you and you experiencing it?
And I just what I want for people is to
have that experience themselves, right, to have the experience of

(56:38):
feeling grateful for their lives, that they're okay, that they
can feel love, not because someone told them you're okay
right or you're safe, but because you actually get to
feel it yourself and you're like, oh, that's what safety
feels like. Holy crap, I've read about it, but I
didn't know it felt like that.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
And that's where I think organized religion kind of drops
the ball sometimes because they make people feel like God
and Jesus is out there, like, but the scripture even
says the Kingdom of Heaven is within within me, within
Truth within you, So it's not something that you have
to like reach out for that's almost unattainable, Like it's

(57:24):
always here, and that's the beauty of it that each
person has it within.

Speaker 4 (57:29):
Them, right, Yeah, I agree and I and I hope
that everyone gets to experience how beautiful that is.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Me too.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
For sure. So the website is Ceremonious Circle dot org.
That's right. And if somebody wants to book a retreat,
if somebody wants to meet you, watch more of what
you're bringing to the table, your interviews, all that good stuff.
They can go there and check out your word.

Speaker 4 (57:59):
Yeah, been a lots of podcasts. You can find me
on Michael Beckwood's podcast.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
That was good. That was really good. He's awesome, by
the way.

Speaker 4 (58:08):
I love Michael. Yeah, he's awesome doing work with Yeah,
a number of different well known authors and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
So well, and you can add the Truth to Gain
Aaron podcast to that list of things that you talk
to the rapper himself.

Speaker 4 (58:28):
Man rap in ceremony bro.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Well, so yeah, let me, let me, let me, let me,
let me share with you real quick. So you have
to do it as rap. Yeah, yeah, listen, I got
I got a message on Instagram from somebody who hosts
ayahuasca retreats in Texas and they said, hey, we listened
to your music as part of ceremony it's part of

(58:52):
the integration process that it's it's a powerful song that
you have and it's just you know, after every read,
every ceremony, we put it on and people listen to
it and they feel connected and they feel they feel safe,
and it's just become a part of our ceremony. Your song.
He said, it would be awesome if you would come
out and perform it at at at a ceremony. And

(59:14):
I'm just sending you a message, just shot in the dark. See,
you know, if we can make it happen. And I
read the message, I'm like, oh man, totally, let's I'd
love to be awesome. And uh, you know, so right,
we'll set up a flight. Here's our next one. Are
you available. It's just like sure, you know, we'll you know,
fly you and your wife out. So we jump on
the plane and go and and our you know, we

(59:35):
didn't feel called to sit with with Aya. You know,
at the time, we thought we were gonna sit with
everybody and kind of coach them and facilitate them and
kind of you know, help them through the night and
then on the last night, you know, do the concert.
So we get there and then we feel called to
do it like once we're there and we're talking to

(59:55):
the shaman, we're talking to the people, and just everything
is just perfect. And it was like talking to each
other is like do you feel like it's calling you?

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Yeah, so it was like, okay, well you know, we're
gonna sit with with Aya and so we did it.
So anyway, I went there thinking I was gonna be
just doing a concert and sitting with a bunch of
people helping them get through the night, and it was
actually vice versa. They were all sitting with me helping
me get through the night and get through that that
dark night, if you will. But it's very beautiful and yeah,

(01:00:27):
kind of like you didn't plan on doing it, just
showed up, you know, thinking I was there to do
a concert. Still did the concert. It was amazing, It
was so much fun. And yeah, that's my story how
I got introduced.

Speaker 4 (01:00:43):
Thank you for sharing that story with me, and yeah,
I'm just celebrating that you had a handshake with that
beautiful medicine in such a synchronistic way.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
So it wasn't a handshake, it was it was It
was very powerful and very therapeutic, life changeing for me
for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:01:07):
Yeah, celebrating your brother, and I'm happy that you had
a positive experience with that. It's good for medicine.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Thanks for coming on the podcast, man, we'll have to
do it again.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
Yeah, you're so welcome, and thank you for having me guys.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
All right, brother, So well, that was a really good discussion.
I really like the fact that they are big on
the leadership and the extensive training that they undergo before
hosting such these ceremonies, just because they you know, so

(01:01:43):
much can go right, but also so much can go wrong,
and I'm just real leery about just promoting or sending
listeners to check out anybody, just anybody's work, and so
we did extensive research and check them out, and they're legit,
so to be like certified and to go through all

(01:02:05):
the training that they went through is definitely a big
plus in my book.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Yeah, because he talked about some of the dangers being
people's mental health. You mentioned bipolar, being on medications such
as SSRIs, things like that. But I think that a
lot of people don't have access to mental health care
and they might even have conditions that they are undiagnosed.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
So it's super important to.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Have a team of people facilitating who can kind of
look out for you and be able to spot things
maybe you don't know about yourself, even if it's not
a good fit, because you wouldn't want to go in
if it's not a good fit.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Yeah, somebody who can spot it out and you see
it in you before you see it in yourself. Like
I can look at you and say, hey, that's a
that's another gas huffer over there. I know you used
to hus huff gas back in the day. I can
see we know our own remember that with that a
concert joke, you had to have been there. One thing
I wanted to go into a little bit more, you know,

(01:03:07):
discussion over of just this idea of like that. I
tried to just kind of talk about it a little bit,
but love and God without the stuff, because I mentioned
like He's like, have you ever felt God? Kind of thing?
And and you know, it brings back memories of us

(01:03:32):
being in church and calling trying to call down God
like come, come Lord Jesus. There's songs that are just
amazing songs by Big Daddy Weave. They were singing it,
come Lord Jesus, Come Lord Jesus. Come, you know, and uh,
and it's just when you get into that notion, you
you set up and position yourself for God to show up.

(01:03:55):
And then sometimes God shows up, sometimes you don't. Sometimes
you those meetings and prayer meetings and services and God
just didn't show up because you didn't get that feeling
that you were expecting that you have felt before and
it's a certain sensation and experience and so you didn't

(01:04:16):
get that. But isn't that such a slap on the
face in the face now of God to say that, like, okay,
because that didn't happen, God didn't show up, or to
equate God with a feeling and most likely he said
he felt God before too. We probably have different feelings
and sensations to say have we felt God? So like

(01:04:38):
this idea of are we not feeling God right now?

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Yeah, And even to consider people of other religions, like
if you're just going with the box that we've grown
up in church, like you would think a Buddhist hasn't
felt God, you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
Know, people definitely would say, yeah, he's not a Christian,
so he hasn't felt the Holy Spirit.

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
And I don't think that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
I think everybody feels God in certain moments and that
feeling that stirs up when you encounter God.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
You know what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
You maybe can't even put a label on it, because
maybe love feels like something different to you, but yeah,
you know it when you feel it. And I think
it's every person is capable of feeling it no matter
what the situation is because God is here, the link
is here, it's within each.

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
One of us.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
And that was just really it's really beautiful to try
to help people integrate those feelings and sensations that they
would identify with God into their everyday life.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Yeah, I feel like now instead of looking at it
that way to where all of it's there all the time.
God is always there. Everything is always there, and so
if there's anything that changes or like you know, comes,
it's what you have welcomed or beckoned. So it's I

(01:06:05):
think it's more work on not God's part. Where God
just said I'm not showing up today, I'm taking the
day off. It's Sunday, to where like, hold on you
do you you have things that are maybe blocking blocking
your ability to sense God in that way or to
sense or to have that experience, whether it's shaking and quaking,

(01:06:26):
which is what we used to love to do and
still love to do, but now I know it's something
that is within us that if we can, you know,
push move out the way anything that's blocking that to happen,
then you can have that experience and facilitate it, you know.
Like I think if even we look at many different
concepts of like money and wealth and things like that,

(01:06:51):
it's like it's just not coming to me, man, I
just can't be. There's probably something that's blocking it well,
because it's there and available for everyone, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
You said too, like maybe you've just become too good
friends with poverty, Like it's too familiar, and the familiar
monster sometimes is more acceptable, more safe than the unfamiliar blessing.
And so we have to get out of that mindset.
And I think that a lot of our life experiences
are traumas. Our body holds onto it and latches around

(01:07:23):
it and creates this almost scar tissue around it so
we don't have to feel it, but it always will
come back in the form of disease or inflammation or
blocked sensation where you want to feel these things and
you physically can't. And that's what happened with me whenever
I had my healing experiences. All this stuff got cleared

(01:07:45):
out and I was able to actually feel again. And
it's so important for people to be able to come
to these realizations and get the healing they need.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
Yeah, so instead of like carrying the baggage and carrying
all this stuff with you, it's really just putting it
down or feeling like you have somewhere to put it,
because a lot of people feel like they can't just
set it down. They have to give it to somebody
or or you know, you can't just set it down,
and you're because you're just setting it somewhere else, you're

(01:08:17):
giving it to someone else. And I think, you know,
the Holy Spirit helps us to process the trauma and
process the stuff and be able to release it and
let it go in its proper place of some maybe
someone something somehow that that can handle it. You know,

(01:08:40):
a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
Of times when you feel it, when you really sit
with a feeling and feel it, it changes, It'll alchemize it,
and you'll be able to find some way of acknowledging
it that changes it a little bit and maybe allows it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
To go that different perspective, kind.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
Of like the shadow work that was mentioned.

Speaker 4 (01:09:00):
Hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
Well, we also have a retreat coming up. We have
a retreat in Sedona, Arizona.

Speaker 3 (01:09:10):
I know it's exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
It's going to be February twenty six through March the first,
twenty twenty six. It's in about three months time. All
the details and pictures and information are on the website
at tretska dot com. And it's a very limited space
that we're going to be in. So if you want
to go grab your ticket soon.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
I think there's only like fifteen slots or something like.
If that no, well, twelve slots. Yeah, So if you're interested,
if it's calling you, if you're the one that you
know right now that it's for you, go ahead and
get your tickets. There's different ways to pay in the
purchase tickets on there. So we definitely made it affordable
and available where everybody can do it. So definitely go

(01:09:53):
check it out. We're going to be doing a concert,
we're gonna be doing on music, We're gonna be doing
sound baths, sound bathing and breath work, cacao ceremony, all
that cool stuff under the stars is going to be amazing.
Don't miss it. If you feel it's calling you again,
and just what we everything, We just said, what is

(01:10:14):
the thing that tells you no if it's calling you,
and then something immediately says no, You got to learn
to talk back to that thing and just say get
out the way, Get out the way. It's one thing
for us to kind of overseell it, twist your arm
and kind of sell you on it to and then
you try, you know, do what you can to get tickets.
That's one thing. But for those of you who as

(01:10:35):
soon as we say it and you know you want
to go, you want to be a part of this,
and then something says no, that's the thing that you
have to identify because you find out that anything that
that you plan to do that's going to bring you peace,
that's going to bring you to the next level that
you set your mind to do you want to do.
That voice pops up again, the old familiar voice, and

(01:10:56):
tries to tell you not every single time, and for
many of us, the majority of our lives, we just
listen to it and it just kind of pushes us
in the corner and just says it's not for you.
And then it gives you all these reasons of why
it's not for you. So if you feel that urge
and that nudge to come to something like this, and
something's telling you, know of why you can't afford it,

(01:11:19):
or you're not going to be able to get off
of work, or you're not gonna be able to do this,
so nobody's gonna be able to watch the dog or
whatever these excuses that come up. Identify those things and
push them to the side. Ask God to make a way,
because I believe that if you have a desire to
do something, especially those things that are bettering you and

(01:11:41):
you want to get to the next level, identify the
voice of the inner critic that's telling you know that
you can't have those things.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
Yeah, and maybe just say thank you, but no, thank you, no, yeah,
thank you for trying to keep me in line and
keep me safe.

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
But I know this is for me.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
So if you would just step aside.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
Yep, thank you, you serve are no longer needed. You
did a good job for forty years and the rest
of this is mine. We're gonna we're gonna pursue good things.
We're gonna do great things. So anyway, I just wanted
to encourage you with that because I've dealt with it
and I still have to deal with it. You know
there's continually the Bible says, what to take every thought

(01:12:19):
captive that exalts itself against the knowledge of Christ, against
the things that are that are good, that are good
for you, And so it'll come up with these these
identities that aren't real. They're only real if you believe them.
And the weird thing about that and how that works
is the other the opposite is real if you believe it. Yeah,

(01:12:39):
that you're more than a you're more than a cacao,
you're more than a conqueror, that you're successful, that you
are free, that you are whole.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
You're fearfully and wonderfully made the Kingdom of heaven and
lives inside of you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
Or you're broken or you're broken, I mean like both
are true, whichever one you you believe. So we're twenty
twenty six. We're believing for great things in our lives,
in your lives. Thank you guys for being here, things
for partnering with us, And if you want to find
out more again, go to the website truthseeker dot com.
Become one of our patrons, join up for our membership

(01:13:17):
platform all that good stuff well we do hangouts and
all kind of stuff. You get access to just check
it out with that again piece and so on. Everybody peace,
we'll do it again. Hey, thank you so much for
watching this episode. I hope you enjoyed. I want you
to know that there is a video right here that
you can watch video right by me. Click this oude.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
No, don't click his video, click my video. His video
is probably about demons and dark stuff. Anyways, mine's probably
about angels and awesome stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
She has a point. So you decide the demon or
the angel. Where do you go with