WHEN POLITICAL ART GETS POLITICAL - EP 7 - Anytime with Ken & Alden

Episode Transcript
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(00:37):
It's already been a butt start.It's already been a butt start to the
show. We're live, live,live live, this is any time with
Kennan Olden, and we are havinga lot of fun already. Wow,
on a Friday, we are aboutone minute from show. We were one
minute from show Alden when an earthquakestruck my side, not yours. Yeah,

(01:02):
your side, which gets no warningabout what happens to you. We
at least, you know, hurricanewatch is like a sport over here.
But earthquakes, you said, Ithink an earthquake just hit with the calmness
of like I think a bird justchirts, you know, I like,
I actually enjoy the earthquakes. Earthquakes. Earthquakes are fun in a weird way

(01:25):
for me. And uh not thatnot the serious ones, not like the
one that you paid. I hadsome friends in Tokyo visiting when that struck,
and I was on the phone withthem at one am in my time
to make sure, Okay, earthquakesare serious. Put that caveat out there.
But that was like a four pointsix several miles away, and just
things where it's a subtle, it'sa subtle rolling sensation. Alton Yeah,
it's interesting, does it. Doesit sort of like tickle that part of

(01:48):
you that reminds you that anything canhappen in this life. Yeah, you
know what it does it? Youknow, I was a first responder for
so many years as a public safetydirector that and I was a public safe
direct at the earthquake at the atthe mall that collapsed in the nineteen ninety
four North of earthquake. So wehad a history with it and it just
springs into action. You're like,let me go check on the pipes.

(02:10):
I gotta check that pipes of thehouse and get through it. But we're
good. We're here. We're here. But that's why we had a little
bit of delay. And this lastweek was a technical to delay this week,
it's it's an earth delay nature healing, not actually tech. Instead,
it was just the planet reminding usthat it's in charge and we're not.
It's in charge. This is anyTime with Kenan Olden. Thank you for

(02:31):
joining us. It's our Friday show, we go live. Don't forget to
subscribe to the Anytime with Kennon OldenYouTube channel. But you're watching live now
on the Kidnapstock channel because this isthe monetized channel. We're growing the other
one. That's how the old YouTubeworks. That's how you make a living
in this industry. All that.I don't even know what industry we're in
anymore. Yeah, I'm unclear aboutthat now, because I thought it was

(02:53):
broadcast media and entertainment. Sometimes though, it's called content, and sometimes though
it's called being a being your ownbrand. And I don't know if I'll
be good at that last one.But look, I'm my own brand.
I eat cereal for dinner now again. I used to. I stopped eating
cereal for ten years, but nowI'm that guy, that's my brand.

(03:14):
That's why did you stop for tenyears? My doctor told me this is
about two thousand. Actually it's beena lot. Maybe in twenty twenty four,
it's been about fifteen years. Mydoctor in two thousand and ten it
was like, do you have alot of ice cream, steak and like
sugar. I was like yeah,He's like, you need to stop that.
So I cut out the insane amountof cereal boxes in my house and

(03:35):
I never went back to it untilthis past year. I used the oat
milk, So that just makes methink it's even that much more healthy.
And you know what, I hadthe taste eos are the what you those
little honey oh's. It's an underratedcereal and I've just been downing three bowls
in eight that's fantastic. I'm aCereal diehard. I think if my doctor
ever said to give up Cereal,I would just look at them and say,
well, you might get sued forsome sort of moulthpractice for not forcing

(04:00):
me because I'm going to die.You just say, you know, then
we die. If we die,we die, That's what you might say.
There. We are on the socials. We are on all the socials,
whatever you want to call Twitter orx We're there anytime on air,
Instagram and threads as well. Aswe continue to grow. It's been a
lot of fun doing the show.This is like our seventh episode, first
of the new year, and we'rehere and Alden, we're going to have

(04:26):
a guest today. A very lastsecond, I almost didn't get the lower
third prepared guest. Yes, thevery first guest in anytime history. Somebody
who saw one of the planned topicsand immediately hit us up and said,
I have to talk about this.Somebody that we which by the way,
is not a normal guarantee. Thisis somebody we know. This is not

(04:47):
a random I should say that.It's not just an internet person that said
let me yeah, somebody we knowlove and trust who Once he said I
got stuff to say, I waslike, oh, yeah, of course
you do. That makes perfect.Yeah, we're trying to make this show.
This is not just a casual,calm podcast. It's like a you
know, a news show, aworld event show, a pop culture show.

(05:11):
It was segments and blocks and allthose kind of things. And I'm
gonna build him when he shows upif I remember as a green Day expert
is what he is to me.He's also a great filmmaker. That's right.
We're talking about Alex Bachets, who'llbe joining us on the show shortly
here, and it's gonna be alot of fun. But as always,
I think it's time, Alden,we get to that very fun and unfortunately

(05:32):
at times really serious news segment.So let's go ahead and do that,
everybody, as we talk about thenews, here's a look at some of
the headlines making the world spin thisweek. What a week it was.
There was another high profile school shootingin Iowa this week, with one sixth
grade student killed a massive earthquake inJapan, as I mentioned a herrowin crash

(05:55):
in an airport runway in Japan,and Mike Johnson did some performative tough talking
at Southern US border. What's yourplan, Mike, what's your plan?
But we all know the story youwant to hear? Oh yeah, the
one that's had its own countdown andcarries with it a rabid fan base of
morbid devotees. Jeffrey Epstein's list orrather a flight log, or rather a
list of known associates, or rathera list of some people who might have

(06:18):
been around him in some fashion oreven just mentioned by him during the course
of his lifetime as a sexual predatorand jet setting financiear. And that was
all set to be released this week, and oh boy, was the countdown
to that list exciting? What Ibet some people helped list parties? I
know you, did you sit?Because this all stem from the US District
Judge Lord Presco's deceparate decision that allof the information should be unsealed because there

(06:44):
was no legal justification for keeping itfrom the ravenous public hungary for names to
feward. The documents were part ofthe twenty fifteen civil lawsuit from Virginia Geffrey
against Gislane Maxwell Geelane Maxwell issues inprison. Now, the list of names
include associates and a qu and aperson being on the list doesn't mean they
are accused of any wrongdoing, that'skey. It could just mean that they

(07:04):
knew talk with, or rub shoulderswith Epstein, a rich and powerful person
who liked to be around rich andpowerful people, or even just claimed that
he knew rich and powerful people.And again, it could mean that they
are an accuser or a victim ofEpstein's sex trafficking. All these things that
you should keep in mind when discussingthis, but no one will. So.
Names like Kate Lenchett, Cameron Diaz, Stephen Hawkin, and even gulp,

(07:26):
George Lucas aren't necessarily there for nefariousreasons. And let's be honest,
George Lucas probably wandered into one ofEpstein's party like it was a mal food
court or a random documentary, allright. And this goes for even the
names you expected to and be honest, wanted to be on some devil's lifts
of demons. This has led toa rorschex test for everyone based on news
headlines. A test of people likeAaron Rodgers failed, but more on that

(07:49):
later in the show. There aresome names that have popped up in the
details of the unsealed depositions and testimonies, and they're described actions do merit scored
at the very least, or thefervor of pitchfork wielding moms at best.
I suggest you read them if youcan, and if you can stomach the
horrifying actions described into side for yourself. And please someone read the accounts of

(08:09):
Donald Trump to Speaker of the HouseMike Johnson, because his covenant ezapp is
probably locking the content. None ofthis is me suggesting that any of this
is a nothing burger. The sextrafficking done by Epstein to Maxwell is evil,
and there were absolutely were rich andpowerful people taking part. Still,
this list didn't necessarily provide those namesconfirmed that everyone you want to go down

(08:30):
will go down, or reveal whokilled Epstein discuss with caution less of course,
you're Aaron Rodgers again. More thatlater. Add now to the calm,
collective waters of the Middle East,Where to begin and how can this
end? Israel has announced their plansfor the next phase of the war,
as if this were an ongoing superherofranchise. Perhaps the Second Coming of Christ

(08:52):
is just part of the multiverse.The plan includes a brand new approach from
the north of Gaza and shall alwayssay, a more narrow focused approach to
rooting out Hamas leader's anker down inthe south. All this while displaced Palestinians
are just trying to survive a humanitariancrisis, with some telling CNN this week
they would rather go home and justdie with dignity. The United States has
continued to support Israel's right to fighta war with the hostage hoarding Hamas following

(09:16):
the horrific October seventh attack on Israel, while the rift between the countries does
continue to grow. In a reportby c it ends, Jennifer Hansler,
a US State Department spokesperson, saidthat the results in Gaza on protecting citizens
does not seem to match where Israel'sintentions are. So I guess the State
Department speak for We've asked the ideahave to be cool, dude, and
they're not listening. Last week's SouthAfrica suit Israel in the World Court at

(09:39):
the Hague on the grounds of quotealleged violations of the Convention on Prevention and
Punishment of the Crime of Genocide inrelation to Gaza to make most Americans interested.
That's like if Israel was on Epstein'sflight law. The lawsuit prompted White
House National Security Council spokes versus JohnKirby to respond by saying the suit was
meriderless, counterproductive, and completely withoutbasis in any fact whatsoever, his word

(10:03):
whatsoever. That's one do your researchcommon away from making him sound like he's
a guest on the Joe Rogan experience. And look, I did not read
all eighty four pages of the filing. I read the title page. So
I'm open to more expert opinions onthis, or you know, the World
Court justices, who I assume wearcows and may or may not be eternals.
But Kirby's response has the energy ofthe getaway driver saying, my friends

(10:26):
just said they were popping into thebank withdraw cash, and I believe them.
We'll keep all rye on this,and all of this is a lot
to take in, so let's finishwith something lighthearted and fun like they do
on local news, like a catlearning to make English muffins, or an
old lady living to one hundred andeleven because she cooked steaks and whiskey three
times a day. All right,here we go. And finally, two

(10:48):
bombs killed eighty four people in theIranian city of Kermand this week. The
deaths, as well as injuries tonearly three hundred other people, took place
at the burial site of Cassim Solani, a military commander killed and an US
air strike four years ago. IRan immediately blamed Israel for the strike,
with their president warning that Israel wouldquote pay a heavy price for this crime

(11:09):
and the crimes you have committed,a not so subtle reminder of the region's
general thoughts towards the Jewish state.However, the next day, ISIS claimed
responsibility. That's right, Isis.Remember that this is like a WWE superstar
showed upon raw years after they left. That's that's Isis's music. The media
wing of ISIS titled their statement andkilled them wherever you find them and in

(11:31):
the in it it took responsibility forthe murders at the ceremony commemorating Solomoni's death
four years ago, and they saidthey did it in the name of taking
out poly thesis. That's right.This is having to do with Isis's thoughts
on the Shia branch of Islam beingheretical in an ongoing, maybe never ending
religious war. So no response yetfrom Iran at the time of that.
I wrote this on the ISIS claimand no apology for blaming Israel though.

(11:54):
It just just takes you a fewclicks in the Twitter responses to get into
the theories that Isis did this forIsrael. So stay tuned, but at
least an expansion of regional combat ison hold for one more day, folks.
I don't have the energy to getinto the Lebanon and US military integlements,
so let's wrap it up. There'sa lot of death and warfoot I'd
love to just do silly stories aboutTrump's diapers and his name being kept off

(12:18):
state's primary ballots, but this iswhere the new spotlight has taken us.
So keep your head up and hey, spread some love today. But that's
the news. Alden. Anything youwant to chat about, oh man,
Ken, oh man, this oneright here, this this one was heavy,
which you said, all fair,but this Epstein list Man, this

(12:39):
this right here is peak. Ithink American like barbarism and sensationalism, where
we had an entire meme culture cropup over the course of just days of
people either you know, clenching theirbutts or you know, waiting with baited
breath for someone they dislike to beon there. It got weaponized immediately,

(13:03):
which we will talk about, andit was definitely interesting. And yeah,
I mean it comes up every timeStar Wars, huge, huge, huge
component of our lives. George Lucas'sname gets mentioned. Well, what's that
about? Not really nothing, It'sjust someone asked, did you ever see
him there? No? Like,yeah, that's the and you know you
start to ask, well, whatabout this connection? This connection George is

(13:24):
married to one of Oprah Winfrey's bestfriends, who is Melody Hobson, a
powerful CEO. Oprah Winfrey was inthe Weinstein circle of friends for a long
time, as well as the Clintonsand boom, there you go, six
degrees of Epstein complete. It's veryinteresting to see people react, and you
know, not to not to highlightLa as some sort of bad place at

(13:48):
all, but I wanted to ask, did La or any of your friends
that are out there in the industryhave a particular interest in this or was
was it talk? Yeah? No, no, look absolutely in that in
that dare I say pop culture way, which again is to not lower the

(14:09):
impact of all of this or thecase or or the victims and all those
things. But yeah, it's aconversation piece, and it's it's it's it's
for me. I look at oldand I look at you know, when
Epstein's list becomes just this thing,and that's beyond of what it actually is.
In many cases it isn't actually alist there there's like you just said,

(14:30):
like names are mentioned because Epstein mighthave been bragging any knew people that
that's why they're in there. Allthe names who have been revealed they're legal
teams had the chance to look itall over and the chance to say no,
we want to stay with that thereor not. I think it all
flows down into what do you dowith the information. You know, as
Star Wars fans, we're lucky wedon't have JK Rowling behind anything that we

(14:54):
love. But if if something absolutelyhorrible came out about George Lucas, that's
the decision we'd have to make.I think you and I would make the
right decision about what we do.And so his name was I saw that
I got text that name, andI was I immediately had that like,
oh oh no, but you kindof have to dig into it. And
that's the test, I think,can you dig into what actually is going

(15:15):
on or do you stick with thememe culture which drives so much news.
Yeah, as it stands right now, I've got two Star Wars tattoos and
one Wizarding World tattoo. And let'shope I don't wish to remove any further
from my body. Uh that thatthat it does create a little bit of
a complication, but yeah, it'sit was definitely interesting to see, uh

(15:39):
what happened? Uh, And youknow, there were some that were obvious,
like you know, I don't wantit just deserted to the Clinton what's
true, what's not show? ButI did think it was really funny to
see that the Bill people were likeBill Clinton, you know, is named
on the thing people were like,yeah, forks found in kitchen, like
what like yeah, some of theworst kept secrets of all time? Yeah,

(16:03):
in certain and even that, Iwant to wait, I want to
I want to wait to see,uh you know what, uh what actually
is there about about Clinton. Alot of it might make sense, but
even then that's just me myself followinguh rumor and innuendo and meme culture.
Uh, it's it's the I didit popped up on on on Twitter x

(16:25):
whatever, and I read it someof the accounts of of of Trump and
and Dershowitz and Epstein and and they'rehorrific and you almost can't finish it.
Uh. But that when that kindof information comes out, that's what I
always go down to, what whatare you going to do with that information?
And and there's a lot of folksmaybe failing in that regard of their
exalted second coming of uh you know, forty fifth president hero that they're they're

(16:49):
getting this information and and they don'twant to don't want to face it.
That's that's the problem for me.Yeah, And it's a huge topic that
we'll be touching on throughout each ofour stories today. Is the idea of
moving goalposts. And you know,for me and not for the oh,
Stephen Hawking, George Lucas, BillClinton, down with all of them,

(17:11):
and oh, but not these guys. There's a reason for that. Yeah,
yeah, these guys. And andyou ask about the la thing of
it all, and it just justyou know, uh, there's there's a
lot of bad things out here,right, there's a CD underbelly, and
a lot of people who might votein ways that I agree with are part
of that CD underbelly. But that'sjust that's to me human nature and the

(17:33):
downside of it and just this richand powerful love, rich and powerful and
a lot of people love the fake. I've worked with some of these folks.
I worked some of these folks thateventually got out in and even though
you kind of knew some of it, or you just kind of you were
around him, and and my namewould have been in depositions. I think
my name was in depositions, youknow where it's just like it's just it's
just it was a Tuesday, andI was there, and that often,

(17:55):
you know, And and and that'spart of what the Rorschak test I think
is for this entire incidents. Thisis unsealed court documents that are still on.
There's more even coming today, Ithink, so we'll see more information.
But it is you lead with it, because that's that's what everyone is
talking about it. We love this, We love clapsing our hands together of
society and going ooh dark and seedy, evil things, and we love down

(18:17):
into it. Yeah, we gettired of status quo and we get hungry
for a shocking revelation, especially it'sthe beginning of the year and people want
to establish a tone. Yeah,it's definitely yeah, full of motivations in
our live comments, and you too, if you're watching later, can get
in our live comments by watching liveshow eleven am every Friday Pacific time.
Jared the Dark Jedi says, anotherfactor that is scare but Epstein dis info

(18:38):
is that now that Twitter has beenovertaken by ring ring white, I think
it means right wing, but ringwing culture is fun that just spread disinformation
with impunity are also going to muddythe water's a lot and that's absolutely part
of the problem as well. WhereI said it on my twenty Minutes of
Coffee show this week, the Japanearthquake hits around one ten am my time,

(19:00):
I think, or maybe twelve tenam my time. I had friends,
good friends there visiting, and Iwas worried, and I was trying
to go to Twitter or x again, whatever the hell you want to call
it. I couldn't get the information, so much disinformation, no official sources
anymore. No CNN's tweeting about noneof that. You couldn't find it.
And I was getting footage, horrificfootage that was from twenty eleven, the

(19:23):
eight point nine earthquake. And that'salso it as well. And that will
lead to later on when we justgo back to the Aaron Rodgers of it
all about how disinformation can spread soeasy, And again, nothing new.
We're not saying anything super insightful here, Ald that this is just the world
we live in. Yeah, onehundred percent. I mean, it's at
the point now where every single thingis a vetting process of whether or not,

(19:47):
first of all, whether or nota person said it, or if
it was about and second of all, once you determined that this is probably
a person and not Megan eight ninefive six eight two three love you you
know forever click link in bio.Like, once you've determined it's not her,
slash it slash sky Net, thenyou have to determine, Okay,

(20:08):
what are they trying to push?Did they pay for the ability to have
their comments raised to the top.That way, the entire thing is irreparably
damaged at this point, I thinkin terms of how we are able to
even assess a conversation. We're havinga culture war and and a lot of

(20:29):
the participants are digital ghosts their code. And then yes, yeah, yeah,
yeah, I always think of RyanJohnson and that documentary whispering to his
his buddy there, Like I'm gettingall these tweets from Russian bots saying don't
kill Admiral Husker. You know,a hug, Hugs. I was gonna
say hugs like po dammit. Yeah, it's a weird time. And look

(20:52):
it's all around. I'll highlight thiscomment from Mark Newman. Hey, the
left is guilty and the misinformation.I think this is something that happens all
the time. Yeah, I've hadthis conversation when it comes to like Star
Wars stuff where I've got friends onquote the left who are tweeting out things
about Star Wars from news sites whereI have to like text them and be
like, dude, that ain't true. What do you? Why do why
you follow for this? Why?Why? Why? And it's one thing

(21:15):
to get a fact wrong, smudgeof fact, say, you know,
say something without the complete story.I think we might all do that.
That's part of living. But uh, that that is it's just again the
world we live in. It's likethat. It's it's like that collective soul
song the world. No, thisis where we are. It's exactly like
the collection, exactly like the collectorthere was prophabetic. We should have played

(21:38):
attention to the lyrics radio hit.No one paid attention, And we'll talk
about art and no one paid attentionto music from the nineties and beyond.
A little bit later, we havea special guest, Alex Back is set
to join us here in a littlebit, but we're still talking about some
of the dudes there and all thegetting into the Middle East of it all
that that's a that's another test,and and trying to follow all the paths

(22:03):
of information. And you and Ihave had this theme since we started the
show of multiple truths. It's justit's just it's multiplying. And I know
you in particular, we're following theSouth African lawsuit at least earlier in the
week. Yeah, I mean itwas it was felt like a momentous event
to see a nation with you know, obviously the history of apartheid and with

(22:27):
everything that has transpired over the past. You know, however, many decades
of South African history, of howmany many decades of Palestinian history. To
see them go to the Hague andsay, will be the ones that files
this and says, X, Yand Z, this is a clause that

(22:48):
we have. This is one ofthe conventions. They are breaking it.
You know, the conversation from thebeginning has been about collective punishment and the
disproportionate quality of what's happening over therein Palestine. And it's it's disgusting to
see someone that represents the states,I mean, something that I shouldn't be
surprised about. It's not a surprisediscussed and surprise are not intertwined in this

(23:12):
scenario to see someone say, uh, no, unsubstantiated. You know,
it's this claim, this that theother thing, there's nothing to back this
up. What on earth are youtalking about? That is? It's yeah,
the Orwellian like it really is.Uh, there's a lot of I

(23:32):
saw some commentators saying, you know, there's a lot of times that the
I think it was John Kirby andothers in that department have just said I
had no comment or we don't haveenough information. They've played played that every
other question better than that one wasno truth whatsoever. Uh. And I
again, I admit admit the newsa mid now I didn't follow the story
with as closely as you or others. Uh. I just think it's part

(23:53):
of the tone and tenor of what'sgoing on where sure you you can hold
on and I'll admit I someone thatstill holds on the idea of like,
yeah, a country might have aright to defense and defense themselves against another
state or government or even a nonstate actor. Uh. But you know
when you start pushing that justice linetowards vengeance and everyone else is going,

(24:14):
this is what you're doing, andyou keep saying no, no, not,
that's kind of the tone intentor that'sgrowing and and and and and that
is what will I don't know.That's that that's got me worried for the
future a little bit. I don'tlike to live and worry of fear.
But but this is region is gettingyou know, It's always been a just
a fun, easy going region,hasn't it. But Uh, it's it's

(24:36):
a spiraling out in ways that arehard to track. Yeah. And and
I think a huge component of theproblem, especially as we're now in an
election year, UH, is thatit's that region, but it's also America
aiding and a betting in lies andand and lies in broad daylight where when

(24:59):
we crossed, you know, thetwenty thousand dead and however many thousands of
children and all of these civilians andthe refugee camps, and just like all
of these verifiable facts, like journaliststhat you can see reporting as they are
finding out that their families are gonebecause an apartment building just got blown up,

(25:21):
or and the fact that the argumentis, oh well, why is
Hamas using them as shields? Whatdon't you don't get to do that?
You don't get to it would belike, I think the best argument I
heard, and I wish I couldcredit this person, was if somebody grabbed
your spouse or mother or father atgunpoint and then the police shot through them

(25:48):
to kill the you know, thecriminal, you don't get to be like
sorry about that. It's such ashame they use them as a shield,
Like it's so it's that on asswith innocent people. For the United States
to be like it's not happening.Is is stuff that we will be talking
about when I am old and grayand have grandchildren, Like it's you know,

(26:14):
it's the The reason I say we'rewilling in is that it's that it's
that iconic line, you know,when they ask you to deny the evidence
of your eyes and ears, it'swe're just gonna give them a bunch of
money. And then I hate that. I understand why people are ready to
either not vote or not care oryou know, it's the gross, the

(26:37):
the the the disenfranchisedmant of of ofperhaps the left a little bit over this
issue. Yeah, that, I'llbe honest, that frustrates me because because
it's it frustrates me in the senseof look at what your options, Look
what we'll be facing, uh andand and and it denies the delicacy of
the of the situation in the historiesof what needs to go on there.

(27:00):
But also, you know what you'retalking about too, I'm thinking of all
these times the CIA sponsored coups andall those things all through our history,
and this MESSI underbelly that is sometimeshard to reconcile. And I think that's
what that's the theme I'm taking fromyou. It's hard to reconcile the times,
absolutely hard to know which way's up, I think. And at the

(27:21):
same time, though, as you, and I've talked about off air,
as I've talked about with many people, multiple truths. I think. I'm
on the record on air online.It is a genocide happening in real time.
I am on the record saying Ithink it is horror and horrendous and
beyond the pale what this current administrationis contributing to it, whether that is

(27:44):
in running pr interference for an entirepowerful country, or in denial of facts.
But also at the same time,and this is not a both sides
ism thing, which is where theLeft starts to eat itself, which is
if you say, but you're bothsides, No, we're really not.
But if it was yeah, ifit was the opposition right now handling this,

(28:07):
if it was uh Trump and andwell, I guess it would have
been Pens at the time. Ifit's Trump and insert VP here, who
I'm sure will be worse. Uhand Johnson you said it and that it
stung a little bit. Yeah,And it's if it's him and his kids
and his crony's handling this, thenwhat yeah, yeah, then you know,

(28:30):
I'm just saying, there is alwaysas horrendous as it is to say,
there is always a worse in termsof the way we uh play our
role and as as either as worldpolice or as you know, an ally.
There's all like I can only imaginethat if if this was somebody else

(28:51):
and this was you know, thiswas the Donald handling this instead of Uncle
Joe, Uh, there'd probably beAmerican boots there right now. There'd probably
be you know, yeah, yeah, no. Look, And I'm the
first to say, and I knowyou agree too, like I'm I'm not
a foreign policy expert. I don'twork at the State Department. I don't
have all the files in front ofme. That's not why I have these
discussions. I have these discussions onhow do you, as a normal citizen

(29:14):
just try to get up and goin the world. How do you look
reconciled with this? How do youdig into it? And where do you
come up with, you know,a good direction to go and and go
towards hope. And that's just beenhard. It's been hard, and it's
it'd be lovely to just put yourhead in the sand and not engage with
this stuff and host a you know, a silly show where we make fart
noises all day. But that's notwhere I'm at and that's not where you're

(29:37):
at. And so we're just tryingto make sense if something that's almost impossible
to make sense, if I think, yeah, real quick, before we
move on, I do want tobring up Ben's comment here. Just watch
Spielberg's Munich yesterday. The films shouldbe shown in every high school across the
country this month. Gives such greatcontext to the current conflict. I will
say, before anybody jumps on Benor me, I can hear it already,

(29:59):
because that's how the Intern trains usright, is to hear the yelling
before it happens. That movies arenot documentaries. It's not back completely.
But I do think in the spiritof like we talked about, our previs
was a Barbie opening the door forconversations and learning, for glory opening the
door for conversations and learning, orhow a lot of people found out about

(30:19):
the Tulsa because of Watchmen, Ido think in that same vein Spielberg's Munich
very important. It was a noticeablydarker turn for him. It was Spielberg
reckoning with a lot of post nineto eleven paranoia and distrust and broken trust.
To definitely check that out, checkit out. Indeed, before we

(30:40):
get to our big segment today aboutwhen political art gets political, I forgot
I pressed forward. You got tostop me when I do this. We
love to start the show taking alook at the world with our segment what
ben Affleck are we? And AldenWhat ben Affleck are we today? Well,
today's ben Affleck sort of serves asa sequel to last week's ben Affleck.

(31:00):
I guess that makes it like BenAffleck Dona Justice or something. This
is Ben Affleck now completely aware ofthe fact that people take the photos of
him with his duncan. This isapparently a commercial. I would assume super
Bowl. That's that's my guess.They are filming out there at his residence.

(31:22):
He is carrying like triple his usualorder with incredible poise. And then
on his shirt is a photo ofhim and Matt Damon as teenagers with the
caption day Ones. So I'm hopingthat Matt is inside the house for the
next scene in the commercial. Thisis it. I love this photo.

(31:44):
We can get into it. Itrelates touffs. But when this popped up,
and this is how you know theinternet works. I saw this and
I went, damn, Ben likehe like, you got to stop with
the donuts man, Like I justtook it as reel. I just thought
this was his normal Tuesday. Butthen you look closer and yeah, commercial
super Bowl commercial seems absolutely right,and I love it. I love it
because Ben is his reputation with allthe memes around him of just being grumpy

(32:07):
and sad and over it all,and maybe he is on some level,
but I like that this is stillbet Affleck, who was the bomb and
phantoms. So this is this isgreat for me. It's the bomb and
fantoms yoe, something that I actuallyonce got to say to his face and
he and he laughed. So he'she is always a in on the bit
type guy. And I think that'sthere's a lesson there. You know,

(32:29):
if if you have there's something isperceived about you, and you can turn
it into joy and turn it intocomedy and and and embrace sort of your
persona. There there's a healthy ahealthiness there. Hey, look, everyone
thinks I'm a grumpy a hole,and I'll lean into it sometimes as well.
All Right, we're gonna move onto uh, look at some entertainment

(32:50):
news. I'll set it up here. Then you can help me bring in
our wonderful guests, our first officialguest of any Time with Kenvin old We
kept telling you we're gonna have guests, and we just didn't know this one
was going to be this fast,and I'm so excited for On New Year's
Eve into New Year's Day, theball dropped, and you know that means
you got to have a lot ofbands playing. At one point in Green
Day, the venerable rock and rollHall of Fame punk band turned Legends came

(33:14):
on and did an updated version oftheir song American Idiot, and they changed
one of the lines that they're notpart of the mega agenda, which of
course started today absolute fervor around theworld of this band getting political, which
of course means we get to havethe conversation about they always were, but
there's a lot more to it,a lot more different takes. In Olden,
we could not have this conversation alone, No, we couldn't. I

(33:36):
am so proud to say that thefirst guest in the history of any Time
with Kennan Alden is a friend ofthe show, a filmmaker, a one
time host, a punk rock enthusiast, a guitar player in his own right,
performer, writer, director. That'sour time. This is Alex Macs.

(33:57):
Oh my gosh. I haven't beenon a anything with a microphone and
probably two years now. Yeah,it sounds like if it sounds bad,
I was looking for my podcast microphone. I was like, oh, I
gave all the cables away. Igotta be one of those guests with that's
using their AirPod microphone. Apologies ifit's not up to the standards of any

(34:17):
time. Look, yeah, wesee it when CNN has people from their
MacBooks and their dens. I thinkwe're okay. Yeah, this is great,
Alex. Great to have your happyNew Year, buddy. It's been
too long since we've embraced in person. Uh you your dudes, Yeah,
we'll start with you here, man, I want to start with this,
ques. When did you become aGreen Day fan? And when did you

(34:40):
learn they were political? The realityof it is is I was. I
am from northern California and I grewup listening to you know you can probably
there's a lot of arguments to bemade about Green Day, but we'll say
pop punk for the sake of this, Like, I don't really want to
have my d ms blow up aboutwhat punk is and what what pop punk

(35:05):
is. I just I don't care, like it's it's all. It's all,
it's all hot topic. Funk capop now, like counterculture is just
pop culture. So my first thefirst album that I ever asked for as
a birthday present was Nimrod i Ibecause this is how punk I am.
I had heard Time of your Lifeon the Seinfeld Recap episode and I was

(35:31):
like, this rules. I gottaget this. And then I listened to
the record. I was like,this doesn't sound anything like that song on
how the s recap. But myI had left it in my dad's car
and he was like, hey,what was that music you were listening.
I'm like, oh, no,I'm in trouble. I'm in I'm in.

(35:51):
I'm in such trouble. That's right. Defend pop punk, hashtag,
defend pop punk. I'm in somuch trouble. And he goes, this
is pretty cool, and I,you know, I was at the age
where like, if you're like myfather gave it a stamp of approval,
it was worth kind of exploring.That's how again how punk Green Day fans
are. And honestly, after that, it was like listening to Green Day,

(36:12):
Pennywise, Offspring, Blink, WantityTwo, Rancid, Operation IVY.
If you're from the Bay Area,like Operation IVY is kind of like standard
procedure, like you have to listento Operation IVY. I was just riding
bmx is and listening to punk,you know what I mean with the little
headphones that go behind your head.Yeah, for those like that was like
a thing with like a shockwave CDplayer so it didn't skip while you're doing

(36:36):
sick jumps. So I've been aI would say Green Day. I would
have said Green Day is my favoriteband probably up until maybe the last like
ten years, not like it justI think I just sort of like detached
from them and just kind of fellinto different tastes. Like I don't know
that I've really loved a Green Dayrecord since American Idiot, Like that was

(36:58):
like the last real record where Iwas like all bangers, no skips.
I can listen to this record topto bottom, and I'm sure we'll we'll
get into it. But yeah,I've been a green Day fan for quite
some time. Mm hmmm. Andwhen did I find out they were political?
Like come on, like they weresinging about gender identity and homosexuality on
Duchie, everybody like get with it. Yeah, And you know you mentioned

(37:21):
American Idiot. That's two thousand andfour. And you know it doesn't matter
where I was because it's just ababy. But in two thousand and four,
where are you, Alex? You'reyour two thousand You're like perfect audience
member for American Idiot. I cantell you exactly where I am during when
American Idiot came out. I'm eighteenyears old and I have moved to Los

(37:44):
Angeles by myself, and I've livedhere for two weeks, and I heard
going down to the Sam Goodie onthe Santa Monica Promenade and getting my pre
ordered copy of American Idiot the CD, and that basically liked me through the
first probably year of living in LosAngeles by myself. I also the first

(38:07):
thing I have a great this iswhen I saw you guys were talking about
American Idiot. That's why I gotso excited because it actually does hold a
very special place in my heart.I went to the record release show at
the Henry fond Of Theater on HollywoodBoulevard that they played the record all the
way through. I sat next toTim Armstrong of Rants in an operation.

(38:27):
Ivy and I had had like Ihad like a little backpack that like I
put some T shirts in, andthe guy sitting next to me was like,
hey, are you a big areyou a big? Green Day Fanta
said, yeah. He goes hangwith me after the show. Now mind
you, I'm eighteen years old.I go after the show, I hang
out with him. He takes meupstairs to the record release party where I
partied with the band and Paris Hiltonand Cheech Marin was there, like making

(38:53):
cocktails for people. Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. Trey made me and
drinking. He's like, I callthis the cheach and gave it to me,
and I'm like, I was like, this is I can't like,
Hollywood is so easy. I mean, this is so easy. I'm going
to be so rich in like ayear. So that's my I have a

(39:13):
lot of like really kind of strong, profound connections to this record. It's
very important to me. So it'swild to me. It's it's insane that
somebody would think for a second thatthis this band is not political. Yeah,
oh wow, I was so gladyou mentioned that, because we have
Paris and Cheach here on the show. Everybody, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(39:34):
So I want to start dive itinto the further this week, and
Alex, I want to you know, you wanted to be here, and
I want you to talk about it. I'll start by saying, I sometimes
I totally know there's folks who arelike, what like Paul Ryan saying Rage
Against Machine was his favorite band,or any Republican that says, let's play
Born in the USA, you know, from Springsteen and not not getting the

(39:55):
Reagan era attack that it is allthis stuff. Like, I think there's
people I also think this is justsomewhat made up right, that this is
someone like there's no way you couldhave thought that this band wasn't already here
like this, or that most bandsaren't, or that most artists don't have
this in their art. That's whymy title is when political art gets political

(40:15):
duh. And I think it's agame. It's part of this culture war
game that I both want to fightand ignore. But here I'm fighting it
today because I think it needs tobe discussed. It's fairly stupid. I
mean, you're you're hitting the nailon the head. Is it's it is
an invented conversation to like get involvedin the discourse. It's just I don't

(40:37):
even think that's the first time I'veheard Billy say I don't want to party
your maga agenda. I've heard himdo that live like three times. This
isn't even a new thing. Likeas a Green Day fan, I'm like,
come on, Billy, we gottagott a spice of the material.
Yeah, I mean, there's there'sone. There's one from American I think
American Music Awards, like three fouryears ago. That is the chant no

(40:59):
Trump, no KKK, no fascistUSA. Was the whole that was that
they led the crowd in that andand people are now surprised, ye,
because it is manufactured And I'm curious. You know, there's the Andy Left
a great comment here about sort of, you know, not to go down
the punk road, but once youhave a Broadway jukepun musical, I don't
think it's really punk anymore. Doesn'tnecessarily say it's a bad thing. I

(41:22):
still dig them. Do you think, Alex that their rise from punk heroes
to just mainstream heroes maye like,does that muddy the waters and open them
up to bs like this? Well, I think they're just like I think
rock and roll is kind of justa kind of a strange genre now.

(41:45):
It's sort of like I can't thinkof a lot of new and this is
this also could just be my age, So forgive me if there are people
listening here that are like, what'she talking about? There's like incredible rock
acts like I could I could maybethink of like Turnstile, like Drug Church.
There's a couple of like Can't Swim, Like there's a couple of bands

(42:06):
I really like that are still makingwhat I would consider to be like alternative
punk or pop punk. You know, to be honest with you, like
that, you could go both ways. You could go the way of like,
that's the most punk thing you couldever do is make a Broadway musical,
because no punk band would ever dothat. Like, the the entire
idea that like there are rules andregulations to being punk is completely antithetical to

(42:31):
the idea of right. It makesno sense. So like to say that
something's punk because it has a denimjacket and a back patch is ridiculous.
Like in the Bay Area in theearly nineties, they would have laughed right
in your face if that's what youthought punk was there is, Like,
there's an incredible documentary for anybody that'sinterested in by a Bay Area punk called

(42:52):
Oh my gosh, I have thevinyl back here, give me one second.
Let's look at that peloton. Haveyou have you worked out to it?
Yeah? Yeah, no, Ihave it. It's called Turn It
Around, The Story of East BayPunk. It is a stellar documentary about
the the Gilman scene and op Ivyand Green Day and all of these incredible

(43:15):
bands that came out of that scene. And they were sort of like hippie
artists. They weren't even like yourtraditional New York CBGB punk. Like,
I think everybody has their own ideaabout what punk is. And it's the
same as forgive me for bringing upthe largest pop culture thing the three of

(43:36):
us have in common. It's thesame thing as Star Wars. Like,
everybody has their own idea about whatit is and when it like, when
it veers away from what they like, people get agro about it. And
the reality of it is is punkis just fast music, usually by you
know, musicians that are bad attheir instruments. Is kind of how it
started. And now it's you know, it's melodic, it's fun, a

(43:59):
lot of bands. I still lovesome of them that I love when I
was younger, I just can't standtheir records now. It's like, so
I think green Day's a legacy act, and that's very weird to say they're
I mean, they're they're trying tobe you two, that's what they are.
They're trying to be Bono. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if Green

(44:19):
Day's in the sphere in like fiveyears and there's like refuge flying around your
face. So there's it's gonna befootage of the Bay Area that in the
sphere that everybody could Yeah, it'sit's it's really weird, and you know
you brought it up, and italready come up before you called in Star
Wars. It is sort of likethe apotheosis of that in film of people
choosing to not get it. Itdoesn't matter how many interviews and documentaries we

(44:45):
have with George and Kasden and whoeverelse about that what they were saying,
people will choose to ignore it.I'm curious. You're an independent filmmaker.
You have a short that's been doingthe festival scene now, which we will
talk about in full on a laterepisode. Absolutely about the actual short itself.
But is this Are these the kindsof conversations that you run into on

(45:07):
the festival scene this, let's intentionallynot get it? Are people bringing agendas
of that sort? If you're goingto like an independent film festival, I'd
say probably nine times out of ten, you're probably fairly progressive minded. I
don't know, Like that's boy thattakes I'll say it. I'm a person

(45:27):
that goes to them and participates inthem, and that takes some patience to
sit and watch like two hours ofindependent short filmmaking. The chances of you
getting stuff like I don't think there'sa single short block that we were a
part of that did not have atleast two hyper political short films. It's

(45:49):
just it fuels art, Like whatare we talking about here? Like,
even if you don't agree with thepolitics, everybody has art that they can
plug in too. It's how humanityexpresses themselves. It's how we preserve our
we preserve our stories through these stories. Like it's not people just want to

(46:13):
fight about shit, it's really thatI mean. And we're in an election
year, right, it's perfect,Like let's jump in and let's start fighting
and green Day's a great place tostart, you know, on something that
I would describe as pretty innocuous ona Ryan Seacrest A ball Drop and Show.
And we even got a question inchat that might come off as a
challenge, but I don't think youunderstand where I'm coming from. It's the

(46:36):
thing is, so people that don'talways greet these political statements, are they
just to shut up and go away? Are they still allowed to listen?
Of course they're allowed to listen becauseI listened for years. Because I was
a white, suburban Christian Republican kid. I knew what was happening. When
George Lucas quoted George W. Bushand had the greatest villain of the saga
of all time quoting him in twothousand and five. I knew what it
was about. I had to chooseto either engage with it or just enjoy

(46:59):
it on a level. What upsetsme is when you act like it's not
there. And I'm not saying thecomment are here in our chat is saying
this. I'm saying when people outthere are acting like they're getting political,
we always go to the Star Wars, Vietnam will will return, the Jedi
think it's the Vigo Mortensen broke histoe of this discussion because it's the simplest
thing. We didn't grow up.I was at seven going that was a

(47:19):
statement on Vietnam. But once Ilearned what it is, I choose to
either connect with it more and understandthe art behind it, or I choose
to just enjoy it for what itis. Bears fighting troopers, and in
my head, I get upset whenpeople don't want to engage on a deeper
level. I'll get it. It'sset when people run away from it and
just say Born in the USA isa banger of a tune. I don't

(47:40):
think anyone's saying that because they're aboutseventy if they enjoy that song still,
I enjoy the Boss, but it'sthat the message. The message isn't new.
Green Day's message isn't new. It'salways been there. And if you
choose to ignore it and you justwant to listen to the tune, that's
you. But the conversation with Alexis talking about what I'm talking about.

(48:00):
You just want to fight, Youjust want to be Mike Johnson going my
little coven eyes app wouldn't let melook at Green Day's music vote for that.
That's the frustration, that's and whatfascinates me and co signing all of
that, you know that comment evenif I don't agree with it, can
I and again not attacking you,dude, it's just the idea of acknowledgment

(48:22):
doesn't seem to go both ways becausethere's always the moving goalpost and the for
me and not for THEE. Becausethese same networks, mostly Fox programs,
that are saying should we be lettinga rock and roll band divide us?
They are the same people that hadthat have Ted Nugent telling you know,
Hillary to take a ride on hisrifle or whatever. Rock in the office.

(48:45):
Yeah, you have Ted NuGen anda chili cookoff talking crap on Taylor
Swift. Yeah, good luck tangle, like look at her venues and look
at yours pal like. It's justso you get you get a lot of
that, a lot of what's acceptablefor us is always right and just they
had a tarot card reading on Foxtrying to push the mega agenda and things

(49:07):
just the other day. But GreenDay at a at not a political event.
At Just Day, we're playing alltypes of music event. So there's
that element of it of moving stuffaround. But then the other thing is
when those of us that I thinkidentify as progressive notice conservative elements in art,

(49:27):
we identify it, and I don'tthink I let me tell you right
now, I did not go onTwitter and rant about how Rebel Moon is
full of that stuff, is fullof conservative leading things. I identified them,
and guess what, I moved onwith my life because it's very easy
to do that. Yeah, well, does this happened? This happened with
Clapton Santana coming out as anti transClapton coming out as well always being a

(49:51):
cocaine field racist from the seventies andbeyond, and this happened. There's one
band that are not on the fullintentions of the song, but they were
big in the eighties and I likethem and they have some new music out.
I played it on my radio showand I played their first single and
it was a great song. Andthen about halfway through I realized the lyrics
where I think anti COVID, lockdown, anti cancel culture, and I don't

(50:12):
play them anymore. That's the choiceI make because I just don't want to.
That doesn't want to. It doesn'tneed to be on my show if
I don't want to, I justdidn't tweet about it and go off on
it and try to use it asan election platform. Yeah, and that's
the thing is how are you internalizingit? I feel like I have like
an interesting feeling about the question thatwas asked, which is like, should

(50:37):
I just stop and engaging with it? And I think the answer is absolutely
not. If you enjoy something,please continue to enjoy it. You don't
need to agree with something to loveit, like you don't need you listen.
We can't change the fact that mostof the artists that are working today

(51:00):
happen to be progressive liberals, LikeI don't think there's this like big secret
cabal conspiracy to like eliminate other pointsof views. It just, you know,
the idea of being an artist kindof forces you to be progressive.
It's it's very hard to be anartist and be like I stand for conservative

(51:22):
values, because to be an artistrequires you to have an open mind and
be empathetic and engaging with ideas thatmight challenge you and make things difficult for
you. You know, my writingpartner and I are constantly going like we
have a we're we're finishing up afeature film, and we were we were

(51:42):
talking about some very specific lines,and we were we were really having a
real back and forth. This iswhat my writing partner I was like,
Man, I don't think we cansay that. He's like, I think
we can say it. I waslike, can we twist it? Can
we can we make our intentions clearthrough the language that we're choosing. I
think every art takes this very seriously. People aren't just like wielding things to

(52:04):
make people mad. This is apersonal journey. Like people that make these
movies, they make them for themselves. People who make this music make them
for themselves. If you haven't readthe Rick Rubin book, I really highly
encourage you to go check it out. It's a great picture into how artists
should be or you know, couldpotentially be operating. That I think really

(52:24):
helps helps people understand that, like, you're chasing feelings here. This is
not like, no, people don'tgo outside and go my my goal is
to piss somebody off who doesn't agreewith me. It's my goal is to
put myself out there so that someonecould potentially connect with me. And I
and I'm it makes me sad thatyou can't find like you feel like,

(52:46):
you can't listen to Green Day becauseyou don't agree with them politically. Like,
trust me, there are so manyartists that I love that if I
sat down with them, I'd probablyfind them insufferable, But it does change
the fact that their art speaks withme on a primal level. So I
think it's I encourage people to engagewith things that challenge them. Don't don't

(53:08):
don't turn your radio off because GreenDay makes you bumm. Go listen to
the Green Day you like, justdon't listen to the political stuff that too,
and that it is about choices,And you know, the follow up
on that was, you know whenthe artists say, I don't want those
people listening, I'm at the center. I just want Coo mans we got
feeling despised. I think the issuewith that, or not the issue,

(53:29):
but the element at the center ofthat is internalizing in a negative way for
oneself, where I don't think thatBilly or the members of that band,
if they saw somebody that was inthe center speaking or something, would like
actively go and be like, let'smake that guy's life worse. Like I

(53:52):
don't think it's a personal despising,It's just a matter of can you hear
music at something like a New Year'sEve event and have the self, you
know, the sense of self andthe security to say that's their take.
Even if I don't agree with it, I'm gonna grab my drink, my
French fries, whatever, I'm gonnarock out, like if it becomes If
you hear that and you feel despisedby Green Day, that's a I don't

(54:16):
mean this flippantly or like that's apersonal problem, but it is a personal
problem. Uh yeah, I've beenchanged by you know, but by engaging
with with Star Wars on a deeperlevel. It seems silly and tripe,
but that's the way we approach ita force center that that it is not
trite pop culture. It is ourculture. It's something that raised all of

(54:37):
us and and in in in pluggingin and not ignoring what George was saying,
not ignoring ignoring what everyone else issaying, Uh, not annoying what
bad Batch season two, my favoriteseason of political Star Wars was saying,
uh that that's changed my view,and I think that's that could happen.
I'm not saying that you're suggesting backusgo listen to Green day and find your
voting records suddenly changing. I'm justsaying what I what I'm picking up for

(54:59):
you is like the artists are puttingtheir souls into this, and if you
like the melody, that's that's theentry point to having maybe a deeper discussion
of stuff. And I see Mark. Mark's follow ups are, Hey,
I'm just trying to start this conversation. That's good. Yeah, I get
it. And we all maybe haveartists along the way that we like and
then something they say or do beyondillegal stuff or criminal stuff or the sex

(55:23):
crimes or anything like that. Butyeah, we're also talking about a twenty
year old record, which you haveto look at the political state of America
twenty years ago collectively. George Bushwas a despised president by the end of
his eight years term. Everybody didn'tlike George Bush. Like there's a reason

(55:43):
Obama just absolutely socialacked that election becauseeverybody wanted And I don't say this to
be triggering. I really just don'twant to talk about that level of politics.
But it's like hope and change waslike a collective idea in that election,
and Green Day was sort of fuelingthat. Now Bush won the election

(56:06):
when American Idiot came out. Butbut Green Day was sort of I think
the like first sort of push towardsthis idea. Well, it would look
so transgressive for them to come outwith that record at the time was whoa
Now, I joked, I jokedthat, you know, it doesn't matter
where I was, but I willbring it up. I was. I
was eight going on nine when AmericanIdiot came up. Uh sorry, guys,

(56:31):
and shut up, but I will. I will tell you even in
those what is that that's the thirdfourth grade, even in those classrooms,
you know, when somebody would listento rock and roll. Because two thousand
and fours, the year after Schoolof Rock came out, which put a
lot of us that were, youknow, going to see movies with mom,

(56:52):
like it introduced us to I creditJack Black and Link later with introducing
me to rock in a big way. And the fact that American Idiot came
around and that we were we werereading the lyrics on our computers, checking
over our shoulder because those are reallybad words. We don't even know what
some of those bad words mean,but we know they're bad. Like that

(57:16):
idea of I'm not part of aredneck agenda in Florida. When I would
hear people self identify as rednecks,like the fact that us children in a
in a charter school with our littlegreen and blue polo shirts, like the
fact that we were picking up onit tells me that this is all in
bad faith. To a certain degree, it is all in bad faith.

(57:38):
Yeah. Yeah, that that thatthat goes to my top top of the
the segment statement there, I Iit's you know, it's the moment the
words leave Billy Joe's mouth. Youknow what's gonna happen. You're gonna have
Fox News punded saying that. Ijust don't like it when rockers get political,
and it's it's a cycle. It'sjust got to look at the scott

(58:00):
for what you're saying. Again,I watched right wing New Orleans concert covers
lose their mind at a Roger Watersconcert because they had an inflatable Trump pig
fly over the crowd. You areliterally at a big folot. So yeah,
yeah, but that's what probably frustrated. That's where a lot of my
friends it's frustrating. I'm not sayinganyone here in chat. I'm saying it's
frustrating life. It's frustrating, uhyou know again going to the Springsteen Born

(58:22):
in the USA thing and it's playedat right wing political rallies. Just frustrated
that people continue to miss the deepthemes of art, where they like it
or not. This is a discussionwe've had, like Secret Evasion, you
know, you don't like that showgreat. It is literally about post COVID
Trump era politics. It is aboutsomething that so huge that affected all of

(58:43):
us that it revealed the true naturesof us. And you can't trust even
information and you can't trust even thepeople. You know, that's the themes
behind it. That's from the writer'sroom and when and and and if you
just get lost on the service andyou don't understand that message it's there,
That's why I just get frustrated,because then you're just going through life,
not you know, not analyzing whatthe world is actually about to me.
And that's that's a big change that'shappened to me, you know. And

(59:05):
Alex you brought up that it's atwenty year old literally now twenty twenty four,
twenty year old record, and Ialso think that there's something to be
said about shouldn't people, and againwill be people acting in complete bad faith.
Ever do this Probably not, butshouldn't people celebrate the fact that these
guys that are all what early fiftiesnow, you know, taking a song

(59:29):
and saying by altering this phrasing,this one lyric, we're just trying to
tell you, yeah, we understoodit then and it's still happening now,
and we still understand it now.Maybe it's in your hands young punkers,
you know, punk rock bands outthere. Maybe it's for you guys now,
but we want you to know thedads we still hear you like.

(59:51):
And I think that that's a gesturethat that's a gesture that a lot of
older artists don't do. They don'ttip the hat to you know, we're
still listening. They'll either play itas it was done or they or they
grow sort of embittered. It happensa lot in music for them to just
be like, yeah, you know, maybe we aren't that, maybe we

(01:00:12):
are you know, as you said, Alex, maybe we are you too,
But we want you guys to knowthat we're still on your side.
And that's so valuable now. ButI mean that that seems Alex, let
you jump in there. But itseems like Alex h what's your name?
Alon? Uh, it seems likeyour generation. That's a good perspective of
your generation to the old guys.You know, you and I have had
the discussions about the Star Wars discussionabout in the world who has grown and

(01:00:36):
matured and changed their worldview and whohas just stuck their their their stick in
the mud and become outdated and problematicand quite frankly destructive. But uh,
I like that anyways, Uh,Alex, I heard, well, I
heard this is like a kind ofa weird left turn. But I think
it's I think it's somewhat relevant towhat we're talking about here. Which is

(01:00:58):
a buddy of mine who is aguest on our podcast all the time.
I won't reveal his name for thesake of this story, but he said
one quote to me that always reallystuck out, which is like, hey,
man, if you don't want tobe like the Beatles, then don't
smoke weed, you know what Imean? Like it like it was such
it's and that always stuck out tome. It always stuck out to me

(01:01:19):
because's like, this is not anew this is not new here. We
have been deal like this. See, these are ideas, these are these
are cultural conversations we have been havingfor at this point, hundreds of years.
It'll always be like this. Wewill eventually, I promise you,
the three of us on this call, we are going to wake up one
day and we're gonna be like,holy shit, we're grumpy. What does

(01:01:44):
help me? Yeah, I mean, it happens. It just happens,
like you can't. You have tomake You have to make a conscious,
concerted efforts to try and keep yourmind open. And it takes work,
It takes empathy, and it takesand then I'm not saying people that are
conservative are closed mind. And myfather is a conservative. I love my

(01:02:06):
father to death. You know hemeans, he means well. Those four
years were tough, man, goingto those thanksgivings like it was tough.
But you know, I just hadto always tell myself he's an older guy
and he just you know, youfeel like you start to lose a grip
on something that you understand, Youfeel displaced, you feel unwelcome. I

(01:02:27):
get it, it's easy, weall do. Yeah, But I just
think I think the answer is alwaysempathy when it comes to art Man that
that's that's where I'm at, andI really love how you tie it together
there, even with Alden statements aboutGreen Day is getting older and they are
a Legends act, but they're saying, hey, we're still We're still involved,
were still plugged in, We're stillfinding ways to change, even change
in some of the lyrics, uh, in their in their songs for better.

(01:02:50):
Jared the Dark Jedi pointed that inchat, but that that that's the
hard part about change. Would weMy parents are in the same They're they're
conservative too. We we we didn'tfor about a year after the Roe v.
Wade situation, after it was overturned, we didn't speak a big fight
over that. Uh. You know, you want to move on in life
and you want to connect with yourfamilies, but it's it's they're struggling with

(01:03:10):
just like we, this was howthings were and it's not and I can't
and and and and that's why Itry to have some empathy towards them.
I think, Alex, you're talkingabout empathy even towards them, of saying
yeah, we we we don't evensay that word anymore. Dad, Yeah,
well, but but but my dayit was fine. Yeah, because
you didn't ask the people around youwho were hurt by that word, not
offended, who were hurt. JK. Ralling's comments and her points of view

(01:03:35):
lead to violence against trans people.That Dave Chappelle, Those things empower people
who then, uh, you know, commit acts of violence against trans people.
That's why it's dangerous, and that'swhy we don't say that or don't
make that joke anymore. And it'shard. It's hard to go. I'm
a little embarrassed. I thought Iknew. Now I don't, and you
got to move forward with it.Yeah. Absolutely. I was studying comedy

(01:04:00):
at Second City twenty years ago,and I can't even begin to tell you
how ashamed I would be if someof the sketches that I was riding at
the Second City came became oh youtoday, you know what I mean.
I didn't fucking know any better.I was just I thought I was being
funny. I learned comedy from eightiesand nineties comedies, and I thought that's

(01:04:21):
how you did it. And ittook people in my class, it took
instructors, It took audience members comingup and be like a man, I
don't know about that one. Andyou go oh okay, and you take
you take the lick and you go, my bad, I'm sorry. Like
those two words are so powerful.I'm sorry, Like, isn't it crazy

(01:04:41):
just say I'm sorry. You can'tjust say you're sorry and like walk away
and you can go into your darkroom and be like er, you know
what I'm saying. Yeah, Imean it's like you look back at sort
of the things that were acceptable evenamongst like you know, that childhood,
middle school era of like just tryingto get a righte is that of people
You hit a stage where you realizethat maybe it's just it's not cool to

(01:05:04):
just get a rise because you can. That's cheap and it's easy, and
things grow, and it's whether ornot you have the grace to say,
I'm willing to learn something and I'mwilling to change and I'm willing to acknowledge.
I mean, there's a great commenthere from Andy. You know,

(01:05:25):
I still love Robin Hood Men andTites, but you better believe I'm not
watching Chappelle's new stand up specials.Yeah, you find those lines that work
for you, You grow some thingsyou could put within their context. Andy
and I have had a great offair conversations about a lot of things in
the history of cinema, where Andycorrect me if I'm wrong, but I
believe you were saying that it's yourpartner. That's a huge fan of Silence

(01:05:46):
of the Lambs as well as Iam. I love the Silence of the
Lambs. It's one of my favoritefilms. But it is a deeply transphobic
villain plot in that movie. Itreally is, and put it within the
context of that time, and youacknowledge that perhaps we wouldn't do that.
Then however that film blah blah blah, blah blah. Those conversations are so

(01:06:10):
valuable in comedy and music and horrorand all these things. And as long
as you can have them, thenyou then you're you're a functioning adult.
If you can't have them, thenwell that that that's the issue. Also,
you can acknowledge that and still loveSilence of the Lambs, like,
yeah, great, like sans theLamb's rules, it's a great movie.

(01:06:32):
But like that, I'll listen,I watch me practice what I preach all
that I'd never even thought about thatwith the Buffalo Bill character, I hadn't
thought. And now the next timeI watch it. I guarantee you I'll
have a whole new perspective when Iwatch that film and we'll see it and
changes my my opinion on the film. Same here. Yeah. Yeah.
Sometimes when you think you're like,ah, I think I'm thinking of okay

(01:06:54):
then and then we all those linesand then yeah, I'm with you,
Alex. Sometimes something pops in myhead and I'll be like, I can
I can never see that or hearthat or listen to that the same way
again. And that's uh, youknow, it's it's not none of it's
easy. It's all complicated because timechange is times moves. But this has
always been present. I'm about todive into Cliff Nester nefter Haas's Nester Haas's
book on uh uh cancel culture andcomedy and and and the culture wars in

(01:07:18):
comedy, which are not new.They've been present for hundreds of years.
It's just the same arguments thrown outtime and time again, and and and
that's part of this as well ofhow dare they tell me I can't do
blackface? Right? It's been we'vewe've been through the circle before. How
dare they get political with this band? That's we've been here before, and
that's part of the conversation. Butuh, I'm sorry, empathy, those

(01:07:42):
are the words that I think arevaluable. And Alex, I'm sorry that
I haven't seen you in person forso long and it took this show for
us to stay. I only eversee you when I'm on my bike riding
down the bike path and I seeyou walking your dogs, like hey buddy,
heybody. Yeah. I only eversee you in my space outfit,
cycling space outfit. It's not agood look. I try to be by

(01:08:02):
myself as long as I can wheni'm when I'm cycling. I'm only I
met Alex in Chicago for Star Wars, so Alex again in California for Star
Wars. So the next natural stepis not Japan for Star Wars. It's
to hang out in a way that'snot a convention. Yea, yeah,
yeah, maybe we'll watch some StarWars. Yeah yeah, you come out

(01:08:24):
here, al then fly out hereand we'll go to a local diner here
in Bourbon for great And you haven'tlived until you've seen Alex backus in bike
shorts. It's a it's really it'sa it's legend. It's legend. All
right, Alex, thanks for joiningus to talk about this green Day thing.
We're gonna roll on here, butwe'll say goodbye to or a good
friend. Follow Alex, because Iknow you're not as a present on some

(01:08:45):
of the social media sites. Uh, but you've got a short film,
You've got another film of the worksyou're doing. You're doing things. You,
Steve, Josh, the whole teamare doing things. We're really proud
of you. Here's what I'll asksomeone. If support a local artist,
support a friend of yours that isan artist. You don't need to support
me, you don't know me.Go find a friend of yours that is
hustling putting stuff out there. Golike one of their posts, leave a

(01:09:08):
comment that you like what they're doing. Far more important than finding me online
and saying love. I like hearingyou gripe about American idiot those guys.
But but a great letterbox follow,I will say, oh yeah, you
can find me on letterbox, Alex. The only social media that's good Letterbox.
And when that's our time becomes availabledown the road for mass viewing,

(01:09:31):
we're going to talk about it.It's a great film and it'd be amazing.
I would love to I have seenit. It's wonderful see you.
All right, we roll on hereanytime with Kennan and Alden, and we
have only a couple of things leftto say. But ald it's kind of
a I don't know, we mighthave already seen said everything we need to
say about this, but I didwant to address We wanted to come back

(01:09:54):
to what happened this week with thisthis kerfuffle, and it's a silly kerfuffle,
the Grand Screams, Grand Scheme ofthe World, but the Pat McAfee
show, Aaron Rodgers, this JimmyKimmel, a few Jimmy Kimmel threatening to
sue, there's a lot about that. But I wanted to really talk about
the Pat McAfee apology and the stateof mind of those kind of shows and

(01:10:15):
those kind of folks, and whichis lined up with my change in my
leaving past shows or channels that Iwas associated with some because I was laid
off and that's why I'm not thereany more, and even just why I
don't associate with a lot of theapproaches to those kind of things. But
I did want to start with justyour general thoughts on this. I know
you're not a sports fan like Iam, and you might not know some

(01:10:36):
of these characters, but what didyou What was your takeaway from this?
Up top? My takeaway from this, and you know, the characters.
Actually, this happens to be astory that I did know immediately, the
names. I did know everything becauseour other love, professional wrestling. Pat
McAfee has been a mackdown commentator.He had actually, honestly legitimately a great

(01:10:59):
run doing that. He brings alot of passion to that role. Was
very fun, very quickly beloved.Even had us ingles match at Mania.
You know, he's done it.So I knew him from that world and
from you know, when wrestlers andpeople have popped up on the show,
I'll check out the clips. Andthen Rogers, Aaron Rodgers, I know,

(01:11:20):
only for bad reasons, only forthe the bs that he has spouted,
the you know, the anti vaxxingor the you know, trying to
get fauci debates going, and justshowing his ass around just the general sphere
of culture and in America. This, you know, the first thing I

(01:11:43):
want to say is in especially connectingto our conversation we just had with Alex
about growth and everything. The firstthing I'm gonna throw out is if you're
in the comments right now and you'regoing to bring up the fact that Kimmel
did blackface back in the day,I'm over that argument right now. I'm
not over obviously the act. That'snot at all what I'm saying. But

(01:12:03):
I'm so done with the what aboutism that happens and a lot of these
things that there's been a lot of, like Kimmel, Kimmel's wanted to talk.
He can't be doing that because lookat what he did here. It's
like, Okay, the man hasapologized for his acts twenty years ago that
he knows are inappropriate. We're donethere as far as I'm concerned, as

(01:12:26):
far as this issue is concerned,I'm someone sorry I'm gonna jump into I
agree with this fall. It wasalso what we're just talking about here.
It's about growth and change and notin that stasis. I was someone who
watched The Man Show back in theday. I was someone who listened to
a Him Corolla every night on Lovelinewith Doctor Drew. I get it.
There's there's all you know, girlson trampolines. Yeah, great, it

(01:12:47):
was the time. It was ladculture, Maxim magazine, Stuff magazine.
That was the time. That's whatwas selling. Look at WW during that
time. There's a reason it exploded. It wasn't the quality of the wrestling
that exploded. It wasn't work great, it wasn't work right. You have
two cases of folks, Jimmy Kimmeland Adam Carolla. Look at their career
paths and not talking terms of successand numbers. I'm just talking who they

(01:13:10):
are as people. And Kimmel's anelder statesmen, someone who can address these
serious issues. You can go whocan cry out air. You got Corolla
attacking mass mandate to just being inhis new show on Ben Shapiro's network.
Get your money. I don't care. I'm not going to watch it.
And it doesn't mean that I don'twant it made. Do it. Find
your audience, because clearly there's anaudience out there for But you watch the

(01:13:31):
two. It is about that growth. And I'm with you. You know
you should blackface have But none atany time, absolutely not, of course,
not if he was still doing itor still defending it. That's the
problem I'd have now exactly. SoI just want to try to get in
front of that to establish where weare at on Kimmel as a creative.

(01:13:51):
Like you said, he will cryon air, he will use the slot,
the very good cush gig that he'sgot from Disney on ABC to address
these serious issues, to talk aboutI believe his son's health issues, and
just really lead with his heart ashe has grown from when I was in

(01:14:12):
middle school high school, we thoughtKimmel was kind of hacking in hokey.
But I've gained a different respect forhim as he has I think gained a
different perspective on himself. So weflash forward to him now. He has
had no issues over the last sixseven years using that platform to to take
a stand and to voice his opinionson a lot of the conservative outrage on

(01:14:34):
the MAC, on the mask stuff, on the Trump stuff. And now
we have what we now know factuallybecause the list is out, a completely
factually unfounded bs not a shred ofevidence, nary a mention of Jimmy Kimmel's
name. Nothing in this Epstein list, And Rogers says on McAfee's show,

(01:14:56):
for those of you that don't knowthat you know basically implies that his name
will be there. Something to theeffect of like, oh, you know,
it's gonna be a bad day forJimmy Kimmel. You know. Kimmel
responds kind of shreds him in atweet, calls them a soft brain moron
and this that, and says,if you'd like, we can debate the
facts further in court. And immediatelyeverybody that pays elon musk because they want

(01:15:18):
to be relevant so they need theircomments to be boosted because they have nothing
else in their lives shows up witha oh, but you can't take a
joke, Kimmel, comic, can'ttake a joke. It's not a joke.
You just accuse the father of beingwithin the circle of a known sexual
predator and human trafficker just because youcan. Because what you don't like that

(01:15:42):
he's made fun of you a coupleof times. Guess what, dude,
everyone's making fun of you. Youdon't just get to say stuff like that.
And honestly, I hope, Ihope that he sues him. So
that's where I'm at on this,because I just don't like people getting away
with stuff. Yeah, yeah,no, I'm with you on that.
I don't like people heiden who theyreally are and that's a big thing in
my life too. But yeah,I know I stand by everything you say

(01:16:04):
there and and and agree with that. And whether or not he actually sues,
it'd be fun just to do it, I don't think. And who
knows if he win. I don'teven care about that. I don't care
if you could prove that this wasdefabation or slander. What what it leads
to the conversation, the bigger conversationwe're having here about the responsibility of words.
Uh and and you know this,this is in this comedy world I'm

(01:16:28):
in about it's just jokes. That'swhat upset me more than anything. There's
a lot to what you described.It's it's it's upsetting, but it's also
it's just a kerfuffle. To me, It's just a kerfuffle. McAfee's apology
is what really got me this week. Now, I'll start by saying,
there's some things I understood. He'sjust saying. Look, it's a two
hour live show. We do everyday. We don't have a script.
We don't do segments a blocks Cblock. That's kind of what we do

(01:16:48):
here. The Force Center is notperfectly planned out. We're gonna say a
fact wrong. You're gonna say thiswrong. You're gonna have an opinion that
maybe some of the audience doesn't disagreewith. That's all part of it.
That's broadcasting. And I think Iunderstand there were McAfee's coming from. I've
been part of those shows. I'vebeen part of that. But the problem
is the world has changed, andI have no problem I'm a state again.
I have no problem with a sillyshow that's got a robot voice and

(01:17:10):
fart noises and it's just there tomake you laugh, because that is the
importance of laughter. That is thekey of laughter. Sometimes you do need
to turn it off. It doesn'talways need to be your eyes plugged into
the news and plugged into issues.Sometimes you just want to watch a cat
on TikTok do something silly that's veryvaluable. So I'm i'm with McAfee and
all that stuff up to the pointwhere it comes to what you're saying of
we're just joking. We're just talkingshit. That's what we do here,

(01:17:33):
and we're a positive show. Wedon't like to be negative. And that's
the bullshit of the world I usedto work in and the people I used
to hang out with and the viewthey have. They are these men,
mostly mostly white men, who theirprivileges, they've spent their entire life walking
into rooms and never having to questiontheir space in it because it's theirs,

(01:17:54):
just by societal rules that they feelthat they're winning by. They don't even
know it. So they're just havefun. They're just joshu with you.
I'm just hacking on you. I'mjust talking shit, and their words can
splinter out and to cause more problems. The thing with Kimmel isn't just that
it's defamation. What he was sayingis some nutjob who thinks I'm now part
of this pedophile drinking baby's blood ringis going to try to kill me at

(01:18:17):
a show. They're kind of tryingto harm my family. That's the implications
there. That's why Chappelle's words,despite sometimes being I think being a legendary
comic who is still funny, hiswords cause harm. That's the problem that's
going on. And the world changed. I used to be part of a
little silly movie show that we justwanted to talk about Batman's and hack on

(01:18:38):
movies. We want to make funof the Gijoe movie. The world changed
around us, and some of uschanged with it, and some of us
realize we have a better place,in a more important place with this platform
to not to talk about the issues, just be careful about the world around
us. We're having jokes here.I have a new segment where I take
my little jokes. Jokes aren't theproblem. It's the disconnection. The McAfee

(01:19:00):
connection was what upset me of We'rejust dudes having fun bullshit bullshit. The
world is more than that now,and if you start wading into this,
you got to have a better responsethan that. And that's what's upsetting to
me. And that's where if KimmelSue's great, I want that to be
the thing that people come away with. That type of just we're talking shit

(01:19:20):
thing doesn't hold water. It neverdid. It definitely doesn't hold water now.
It's cowardice. It really is cowardly, and it's convenient. And I
want to highly this comment from Eliat in a Galaxy says in under Studios
calls it Schrodinger's asshole when an idiotmakes a stupid remark and then decides,
based on the reaction whether or notthey were joking. I love this because

(01:19:42):
a lot of that too is theconvenient. Okay, we guys, they're
blowing us up, they're flaming us. We have a day to decide.
So then Pat goes on, andwhat bothers me is the lack of backbone
co signing everything you say and justadding the way that he says, you
know, we don't like to dobecause it's a positive show, we don't
like any to be involved with negativity. It's like, well that, first
of all, that's just that's cowardlyin and of itself that you you think

(01:20:05):
that your show is above being involvedin something I would say serious, And
he says negative, which is aproblem in it of itself, is a
serious thing, inherently negative. Butthen the I think, I think Aaron
was just talking shit. You know, obviously it escalated and Kimmell certainly didn't
feel that way. No, Iwant to know what you think, don't

(01:20:28):
Kimmeill certainly didn't feel that way.I want to know what you You have
a responsibility as the host of thatshow. And yes, the the role
of host is being diminished and destroyedacross you know, hot sauce can carry
a show in lieu of actual hosting. A lot of the times, but
it's like, where is where isany type of integrity of McAfee as I

(01:20:50):
don't know if he's a husband orfather or any of that. Like I'm,
you know, just as a dude. Where is the integrity as someone
who kids call into that show andlook up to you? I want to
know you should say, I think, Aaron this, Jimmy felt this.
Where is the and I feel whereis the And in the future, we're
not gonna let allegations be used aspunchlines. Where's that? Yeah, yeah,

(01:21:14):
I'm with you on that. Andand that's what again a little hot
under the collar because this is somethingI've dealt with here, dealt with it
many times. Where again, thesegment itself. I'm not even saying retroactively,
Pat mcavie should have done this orthat. I'm not suggesting you aren't.
Just hey, let's just say thesegment happened, because that's what happened.
You are live for two hours,right, two hours happened. Someone's
gonna step on it. It alwaystrust me, I have been there.

(01:21:36):
I've been there. But it's whatit's the response and knowing the position.
And that's why I talk about theprivileged aspect of it and the misunderstanding of
that word privilege, and how it'sbeen dumbed down and it's and it's a
war word, you know. Oh, Oh, my mom, my father,
and my mom for this. Oh, I've struggled too, That's not
what privilege is. No one's sayingyou haven't struggled. You haven't struggled because

(01:21:58):
of X Y and Z McAfee,Rogers, Ajhawk, all those people in
the show have never been in ameeting and had to wonder, Oh crap,
I'm the only one of me inthis meeting. Oh, if I
say something wrong, I'll be treateda different way than the people in this
meeting. If I walk in theroom. It's like the life of the
party. Guys, right, I'mthe life of the party. Everyone loves
me. Have you asked everyone inthe room? I bet? I bet
McAfee's that kind of guy too,where I'm just a good time guy,

(01:22:23):
and and and and they take noresponsibility for their place in the world.
Doesn't mean you have to be seriousall the time. Doesn't mean you have
to have a serious show at all. You can just do silly, silly
comedy, but you have to understandyour place in the world and all three
of those guys, because Hawk andMcAfee are laughing at joking along with everyone
else on that show. And it'san inoculate it's a little slip of a
line. It's an arrogant little likegoodo. Kimmel's on that list because a

(01:22:44):
Green Bay Packer player had tweeted outthe false information of Kimmel being on the
list, the photoshop fake photo earlier. So I'm sure Rogers was texted with
that dufe is and that's and that'swhat comes out. But you got to
know your place in this world onceit starts getting serious. Yeah, And
the the idea that comedy does notinherently is not inherently imbued with responsibility is

(01:23:05):
a big thing. That is theissue here. And you know, I'm
not a comedian. You are.You work with several comedians, you have
worked with probably hundreds, and I'msure there is a spectrum of belief on
how responsible are we for X,Y and Z. But you have to
imagine that in this in this dayand age, when you have, like

(01:23:28):
we touched discussed at the top ofthe show, digital code ghosts out there
that just get to contribute to thediscourse and then they're gone. They weren't
ever really real like photoshops that youknow, Athletes making six even seven figures
just believe and share even though theworld, you know, maybe not the
world, but the nation watches themsometimes the world. There is a little

(01:23:53):
bit of responsibility when you branch outof what you establish yourself to be athlete
and you're like, and now Iwill be host, and now I will
be comic. You're inheriting the responsibilitiesof those roles too. You don't just
get to be like, well,you know, it was just boys talking
shit. Well, boys talking shitis not a sponsored show with hundreds of

(01:24:15):
thousands of viewers, et cetera,et cetera. The rules change, the
parameters change. Yes, yes,going to the comedy of it all,
it's it could be sometimes complicated,and he once, I'm always going to
give, always and all under alwaysgoing to give any comic, underline,
any comic the benefit of the doubtto see where they're going with their bit,
because I've been there and I knowit, and it should be comedy

(01:24:36):
should be about that. But there'sa gross menster understanding of the place I
go this a lot. I'm notgoing to go to the huge history of
it yere and I don't know everyaspect of history, but Lenny Bruce and
George Carlin are always brought up.Carlin did not have seven words on television.
You can't say he didn't have thatbit because he wanted to say the
f board. He was talking aboutthis religious right dominating things like Network TV

(01:24:57):
dominating our culture, setting up theboundaries based on their own moral code,
and he wasn't saying hey, lateron he might have said it, but
it wasn't that's your moral code.That shouldn't be to dictate mine, or
shouldn't be the thing band lost.Lenny Bruce wasn't getting arrested because he wanted
to say words you couldn't say.He was getting arrested because literally, police
officers would come to comedy clubs andpolice the words that you would say,

(01:25:21):
right, and he was fighting againstthat, and an issue gets it's so
much cheaper than that. But let'sjust break it down to something we all
experienced. Chris Rock will Smith atthe oscars. Will Smith was probably in
the wrong more than anyone else inthat situation. Legally, criminally, it
was assault, it was battery,it was all those things. I don't
can know that as someone who hashad a comic who has at a comic

(01:25:43):
show, has had a comedy crowdperson charged the stage and wrestled with me
on the stage for the microphone.It's not good. And this has happened.
Mark Maren's been attacked on stage.This has happened. This happens a
lot. So I'm not here todefend anything about that. But the responsibility
of Chris what What was the pointof your joe making fun of Jada pinggtt
Smith? It was a mean spiritedshot. Whether or not you knew she

(01:26:04):
had alopecia or not does not matterbecause you can't know that, right You
can't know that. Maybe he did, but you can't know that. It's
the spirit of your joke. Wordsmatter, what you say matters. There's
no point in that joke. Itwas mean spirited, it was silly,
it was old, it was archaic. We don't need that anymore. Find
other things to joke about. Thereaction was extreme, and again I think

(01:26:25):
I would have pressed arged against WillSmith. Chris Rock didn't. There's more
to it, but that's a situationwell lived in, and that is kind
of what we're talking about here.They got to have some responsibility of what
you're trying to do, the themesof what you're trying to stay on stage.
I also think, you know,building off of that to say,
I think, you know, McAfeedidn't say just joking around, he said
just talking shit, But any variationof the just joking around, you know,

(01:26:49):
format, any version that someone givesyou of that, I think also
inherently implies that they think humor doesn'tmatter at all, and that sort of
the that yes, they think thatthat is their license, you know,
building up Eli's comment about Schrodinger's assholeand that whole idea. It's like a
if I if I say it comedically, then it doesn't matter because comedy doesn't

(01:27:14):
matter, which is inherently a problemin society. Politics. Are there the
intersection of all three? You know, the Golden Globe still puts comedy in
its own in its own you know. Yeah, so funny you're meaning this,
But it's like there should be morecomedic leads in Academy Award nominations.
Yes, it's exactly. It's exactlywhy I get frustrated with the Star Wars

(01:27:36):
of it All because Star Wars,Star Wars, Marvel. It is pop
culture. Look what just happened theother day with this thirteen year old kid
defeats Tetris, which, by theway, mark Ellis has done that before.
God bless that kid. He justlost his father. You're joining the
club with Mark Ellis, all right, that's a fact. A news reporter,
I think Sky News makes fun ofhim and says, oh you got

(01:27:57):
you, go out and touch grass, get some air. It is an
old arcag view on the video gamenerd in the closet, and same with
Star Wars and Marvel and pop culture. It is our culture. So when
you are you could either be thatnewscaster that talks bad about it or worse,
The worst thing to me is bea talking head in the Star Wars
world and in the Marvel world andnot understand that this all has a bigger

(01:28:19):
place. It's all trying to tella different story. It is not just
fluff. There's enough people like BillMaher who will try to tell you the
comic books are fluff. We gotthat. That's a known. Why are
you inside of that industry as acommentator, as a podcaster or a fan
not understanding that the X men wasabout civil rights. That's on you to
understand that. You should understand thatand not look down on it. Comedians

(01:28:43):
have that I'm just joking mentality becauseit's not important. It's tremendously important.
You're also pump pumping up Carlin andLenny Bruce at Bill Hicks and all these
folks who are legends and did wonderfulthings while they weren't just joking. Carlin
was not just joking on stage.Once he locked in to who George Carlin
wanted to be on stage, fascinatingquery changed his view of his approach a

(01:29:04):
few times. Once he locked inon who he wanted to be, he
wasn't just doing jokes. He hadthe same special that he comes out in
New York in the late eighties Ithink early nineties. He attacks the right
wing over abortion rights, and thenhe goes into airline food jokes that I
don't even know would work in asix person crowded you who room at Burbank
anymore. But it wasn't just fluff. Comedy matters. All this stuff art

(01:29:29):
matters. And that's where my argumentgoes and goes back to Green Day,
goes back to American idiot all thatyou gotta have to stop me. We're
gonna go for two hours and meetis yelling No. I think that's why
I was, you know, inthe planning of the show a little behind
scenes. That's why we said wedon't need the main topic because we got
two stories here that perfectly meet atthis cross section of You don't just get

(01:29:49):
to take things seriously. Sometimes youjust don't get to. And if you
hear that and you think, whyis the kid with glasses in a beanie
telling me what to do, thenyou're not actually hearing what I'm saying.
You to take things seriously sometimes isas you mentioned, privilege, because there
are hosts that we both know,hosts of color that are that do not

(01:30:13):
identify as men that if they hadsomebody just talking shit on their show,
throwing allegations at I don't know oneof us or or someone else that we
know, uh, they would itwould be a problem and you would see
the pearl clutching begin from you know, the brand directors or whoever the hell
else in these offices. It's alwaysthings moving around, uh to conveniently fit

(01:30:39):
what people want to deal with onany given day. But things still happen
whether you want to take them seriouslyor not. And and it's like you
hate to be like an alarmist andgo for like the worst case scenario.
But like, let's say that thatABC did start to take action against Kimmel
because of something that Rogers said,and Kimbal's now getting investigated and his kids

(01:31:01):
are being told, Oh, yourdad's a pedo and this is that.
Like, that's that's on you,Pat, That is on you for platforming
that. You know, That's why, like people don't take what we do
seriously a lot of the times inbroadcast media. But you know, when
you're making the decision of like whoare we going to bring on or who
are we not, you are notnecessarily co citing their beliefs, but you

(01:31:24):
are saying we are prepared for everythingthat having this person on a live microphone
entails'd be good, bad, anddifferent. Yeah, when you said Alex
Bachus was gonna come on the show, I wasn't sure about that. Cool
Now, No, because I knowAlex's heart, I know what he puts
into it, I know what hewhat he understands about art. Anyways,

(01:31:44):
well said sir, we're going tostart wrapping up the show. There's a
lot much more to get to noQ and A this time. If you
got any super chat super thanks forthose later on, you can obviously do
that and help support the show.One of the best ways you can support
the show is not only give usa like over here subscribe to my chain
I don't, but subscribe to theanytime with Kennan Olden channel as we're trying
to build that out so we canmove everything over there, and maybe I

(01:32:05):
can just do more silly, stupidstuff in this channel and not always get
political. Maybe maybe we'll see aboutthat. We do want to leave though,
with our pop rock word of wisdomto leave on, sponsored by my
music show Pop Rock and Radio,which very soon will be a syndicated radio
shows as well. This is alyric from Yola and her song Diamond Studded

(01:32:28):
Shoes back in twenty twenty one.Alden, As we start a new year,
times are tough and you are ourschime, but we don't get to
decide when the man comes for ourpaychecks. Don't you tell me you be
all right? We aren't the richones. Some of us will barely get
by. They buy diamond study shoeswith our taxes anything to keep us divided.
I look at where we're at withcorporate power corporations as people who get

(01:32:51):
away with so much, who aredestroying the industries that they claim to be
in, And we are all struggling, and we are, truly all of
us are strung. And that doesgo a long way towards the conversation about
empathy and understanding. Wherever everyone iscoming from, including the fly over States,
coastal leads, all of them,We're all got some kind of struggle.

(01:33:11):
And that is my pop rock wordof wisdom from y'all. Love it,
love that. I gotta check thatsong out. I had not heard
it. I'm definitely excited to checkthat out. And when the show becomes
the syndicated show, going to beable to hear a lot of good stuff.
So keep you all updated, allright, that's it. Al Then
I'll leave you with a final wordbecause I'm parched. Yeah, just just

(01:33:33):
be good to each other, takethings seriously, try to do something kind
still early in the year, Ithink our final thing is that from us
here, at any time, wewill give you an extension on starting whatever
resolution you came out for yourself.These first days didn't count. I love
it. An extension on your resolutions. We'll see you next time.

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WHEN POLITICAL ART GETS POLITICAL - EP 7

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}WHEN POLITICAL ART GETS POLITICAL - EP 7