Andor Season 2 Finale Breakdown: Sacrifice, Survival & the Spark (Episodes 10–12 Recap & Review)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You disgust me everything. You stand for.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Freedom scarce here freedom.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
You don't want freedom, you want chaos, chaos for everyone,
but you ruin the galaxy and then run back to
your ridiculous, wig little workshop.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
How confident you are.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
We're done here, confident and terrified. The building is surrounded.
You've finished, and.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
You're too late.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
The Rebellion isn't here anymore.

Speaker 4 (00:30):
It's flown away, So everywhere else.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
There's the whole galaxy out there waiting to discust you.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Hello, they're a Star Wars fans, and welcome to another
episode of Road to Rebellion. The official ATG and Or
after show, I'm Pete Fledzer and.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
I am Nick Milky, and we thank you for hanging
out with us here on around the Galaxy, which is
a part of the SSW Network.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
This week we will be taking a look at the
final week of and Or season two, But don't worry,
we are going to be coming back next week because
we want to take a look at the series as
a whole. We want to look at his connections to
Rogue one and dig into the legacy of Cassie and
and Or.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
And before we dive in this week, we do want
to give you fair warning. This is a full spoiler show.
We're talking about all of it, everything that happened this week,
things that have happened in previous weeks. So if you
are not caught up and you don't want to hear
us speculate on what we think it means on Star
Wars Lore, hit pause, go watch it. Get fully caught up.
You will be glad you did, because you want to
get all the information directly from the show, not from

(01:38):
us the first time. But when you're done, hit unpause
or come back and join us and we will fill
you in on everything you missed. Yest'll be here.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
We'll be here. We will absolutely be here because each
week on Road to Rebellion, we have unpacked the story.
We've looked at the characters, the big moments, some of
the little details, and everything in between.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
We are going to share first and impressions of what
we saw this week. We're going to dive deep into
the themes, and most likely we're going to point out
some things that didn't quite land for us. But as always,
it is coming from a place of Star Wars love.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
All right, so let's not wait any longer. These episodes
were so powerful. I think it's time we kick this off.
Let's jump in with our first impressions, and Nick, I'm
gonna share my impressions. I'm sure you have some as well.
But one of my first impressions, honestly, was that I
was surprised that the first episode of this arc was

(02:32):
so heavily focused on Luthen and Clia. I expected to
come out of the man Mathma rescue into I actually
don't know what I was expecting, but I wasn't expecting
such a close look at the relationship between Luthen and Clea.
And if you weren't sure about how important Luthen was
the rebellion before, there's absolutely no question about it. After

(02:55):
these episodes.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yes, I agree completely, and I think actually to be
in these last three episodes, to be all the way
at quote unquote the end, to get hit with a
flashback was a surprise.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Like you know, usually you're doing your flashbacks, you're building up,
you're getting to the point where you need to be,
and then you're going from that point. Okay, we've made
it to the president. Now we're going forward.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
And this, you know, through a flashback right in our face.
Pretty early on, which was not insignificant and I thought
was done really well, but like you, it was not
what I had on my Bengo card for this last
kicking off episode.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, you know, you're right, and I think that's why
it did shock me as well, is usually you're going
to get some history of characters and we're going to
go into those details in just a few minutes. The
other thing that I would say is, although there's really
only one big twist in the ending, and we'll get
to that when we get to it, it's one of
the rare times where I have been completely satisfied with

(03:55):
the end of a series. You know, usually there's a
nippick or something, but like I think The Sopranos is
the last time where when the show ended, I for
one was happy. I know not everybody was, but I
took it perfectly. And you know, maybe because we have
Rogue one and a new Hope coming after that. But
how did you feel about this overall from a satisfaction standpoint?

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, you know for a fact that I love the
fact that you compared it to the ending of The Sopranos,
which is one of my favorite TV shows and I
watched at least once a year put a good rewatch in.
I think that you kind of hit the nail on
the head. And I think very specifically, you hit the
nail on the head with the fact that we have
Rogue one, the fact that Rogue one literally rolls headfirst

(04:36):
into the beginning of New Hope. We know where the
story's going, we know what we've got coming. So even
if you had the potential to want to say, well,
this is unfinished or it's too wide open, like it's
not the thing that it's going into is right there
in front of you.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
So if the end left you unfulfilled, that hit the
back button and go click on the next thing that's
going to populate right behind it, which is going to
be one, and the story gets to keep going yep
and back. We said last week, I think that honestly,
Rug one is episodes thirteen, fourteen, and fifteen. If you
really look at how it breaks down, you could chop

(05:13):
that into three episodes and this could be a five
week series instead.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
Of Yeah, and then I mean you almost what happens
is Star Wars from nineteen seventy seven, which is what
started at all, is kind of like a fun sequel
to and or at this point, you know, showing what
they did with all that stuff. So yeah, I think
it's uh, and that's honestly, I feel like that is
probably the best possible compliment you can give to this.

(05:39):
I mean, even the Star Wars prequels episodes one, two,
and three, Yeah, you can make those connections, but it
wasn't seamless. But this, you know, given the challenges of
a movie that is now almost ten years old, uh,
trying to catch the tone and capture what went into
what was the story that honestly, and you and I

(05:59):
have talked about it, We've talked about it on agg Live.
A story of getting the death Star plans, which didn't
seem like that important. I mean, like we knew it happened.
It was going to be hard to make that exciting.
But not only did they do it with Rogue one,
they've now added twenty four episodes of content that make
it even better.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
So yeah, look what it turned into. And I would
say even just my other just first impression was coming
out of the last grouping of episodes last week, I
had that moment where I thought, Okay, we know we
end up at Rogue one, but it feels like there's
a lot of space left for three episodes? What are
we going to do? Like, I really didn't know for
sure where we headed, and I don't want to say

(06:39):
that they filled time with the flashbacks and we'll talk
about that as we get into the recap here in
just a minute. But I was so pleasantly surprised to go, Okay,
what a great way to tell the last leg of
this story. I didn't know what I thought it was
going to be. I knew we thought we had K
two coming on. I know a couple of I guess
bullet points that I expected to be a part of it,

(07:01):
but I really wasn't sure where it was going. So
it was also very refreshing to come in and not
feel like, oh I predicted this was what was gonna be.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
Ye. Well, Nick, we have given our first impressions. We've
talked about what we should do next week, but we
have a full three episodes that we need to recap
and talk about. So why did you kick us off?

Speaker 2 (07:28):
We're going to dive right into it. This was directed
by Alonso Ruiz Palacios. I hope I got that name
right now.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
Very good.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Written by Tom Bissel, we are one year later. Every
time we've gotten a new group of episodes, we've gotten
that Bby. So we get Bby one again. If you're
watching watching, not sure Bby is before the Battle of Yavon.
We're leading to a very specific point, which we get
to in a new Hope. So it's one year later

(07:57):
and it opens with Clay's radio going off our and
there's something happening, something urgent. We cut to Lonnie, our
friend Lonnie Young, walking the streets of Corocant, nervously. Where's
he headed, clearly in a direction something's not right, And
then we're back. We're jumping back and forth. We're back
to Claya loading a gun. Luthen is doing what Luthen does.

(08:19):
He's in that fancy closet that he has, putting on
the wigs, the rings, suiting up, and she hands him
a gun and she tells him. She says, look, I
need you to promise me if it doesn't look perfect,
to walk away. And I love this line that he says,
because we are advanced in the story. He said, I
think we've used up all the perfect And there's just
that long pause. They're looking at each other. They know

(08:41):
the end game is essentially at hand, and so then
they cut from there. Luthen meets Lannie. He's at a
parking corocant. The parks and courseont look great by the way,
like I would totally have take my pack lunch and
go sit out there and watch the ducks and the
loaf cats roll by. But he meets him in the
and he's heard from a friend that Deedro is coming

(09:03):
for Luthen. Your time's up. He's trying to warn him,
and then Lenni confesses the bigger thing, which is he's
been burned. They figured it out. They know that he
was an inside guy, and he's also figured out what's
going on. But he's trying to protect himself. He's looking
out for the safety of his wife and his daughter.

Speaker 5 (09:21):
And he tells the Emperor's energy program is a lie,
all of it. The rebellion on Gorman, it's a front
from the start, a cover to strip mind the planet
for some mingle that they need. They're not looking for
partisans on Jeddi. They need Kaiva crystals. The crackdowns, the

(09:42):
public order, the labour camps, Scariff front over what a
weapon or synchronic's been building a secret weapon for over
a decade.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
And then we cut away, and then we cut back
and we have offscreen Luthen shoots and kills Lonnie because
obviously Lannie is compromised. This is what happens. It's very
cassy and at the beginning of Rugue one, if we
look at it from that standpoint, and as if we
needed to lighten up this heavy scene of this guy
who's put his whole life on the line for a rebellion.

(10:11):
He's found by a loafcat just bobbing along walking with
its owner in the park until we get a little
bit of joy. So for all you loath cat lovers
out there, this one was for.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
You, you know, for me, this whole thing, this is
like it's no longer shocking in this Rogue one and
or universe for somebody to be shot because they know
too much or it or it's over. And I think
it's also really important because it's setting up what's going
to happen in the rest of this episode as well.
But I was still I mean, we knew Lonnie couldn't

(10:43):
live through all this, he's the Imperial Mole, but I
was sad that Lonnie was taken out. I was really
hoping that they'd be able to get him and his
wife and his daughter off planet and somewhere safe. But
I mean, honestly, this was really the only ending that
existed for him.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
I think I agree, and I love that same thing.
I had this kind of soft spot in my heart
for Lonnie as this guy trying to do something good,
trying to help out. But also, how do you not
love a character in Star Wars whose name is just Lonnie? Like,
you know, this is like Sanfordan's in seventies, Like these
are names we grew up with, and we're gonna throw
it in in the Star Wars. I'm all about that.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
Well, the next thing we see is Claia and Luthen
together and Clia is doing something that you know, I
makes sense, just repeating over and over Gorman Scareff, Kyber
Crannick Urso super weapon based in Scareff, so that she
can't forget this stuff. This is the details that need
to get to the next level, whatever that may be.

(11:44):
And Luthen sends her off to wait for him because
he's going to go back to the shop to burn
the communications system literally because the other thing that Lonnie,
of course told him was that Deadri's coming for you,
she knows, and it's time to do it, and she
pushes back. She says, let me go and do it,
and he says, I just need you to be there

(12:05):
waiting for me. So he heads back to the shop
and he begins burning the coms with some sort of
acid and then the shop bell rings and I don't
know why I didn't see this coming, but it was
so cool to see Dedra standing at the door. He
goes into his full pull on Luther and Rail sort
of act, complete with sort of the floating across the store.

(12:31):
The itch is so funny to watch because you're waiting
for somebody to crack. And she claims that she's been
passing the shop for a long time and always wanted
to visit, and he says, you have no idea how
happy that makes me. And they make some small talk
and she asks if anything in the store is a forgery,
and so he shows her a knife that he claims
is still not known if it's real or not, and

(12:52):
then she asks if he owns all the pieces, and
to me, I was just starting to take that as okay.
This is like the Empire trying to you know, pull
an eye deal and say, okay, maybe if we can't
get him for treason, we can get him for tax
evasion or theft or something. And then he says, well,
some of the stuff is on consignment, and then she
pulls out her briefcase and offers that she may have

(13:14):
something for him, and when she opens the case, she
pulls out a vintage Imperial StarPath unit, which, if you
remember from episodes, I think might have been episode one
of and or season one. This was the thing that
started Cassie and on his trail. He had a vintage
StarPath unit, and that's what Lutheran came to Ferris to

(13:37):
get from him. And now Luthan knows the jig is up,
and she says the building is surrounded, and of course
he has no reason not to believe her. She's so
proud of what she's done. And then she notices that
this communications device in the back is burning. He stabbed
himself with a knife that he was showing her before

(13:59):
in an attempted suit aside. She panics, Imperial medics are
called in. She demands that they keep him alive, and
Claya arrives at the shop to see him being taken
away in an Imperial medvact Nick. To me, this was
one of those scenes that I didn't know I needed
until I saw it, and my gosh, it was one
of my favorite scenes actually in the whole series.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
It's so well done and it is truly the definition
for me of cat and mouse. They're playing the game.
They're going back, you know, from the moment she rings
the doorbell. In fact, when he's back in that back
room the doorbell rings, we're like, here it is, it's coming,
like we knew it was coming. And as soon as
she you know, they're facing each other in the doorway

(14:40):
and it's go time. Yes, there's only one way this
ends in confrontation. This isn't the beginning of the show
where they're like, maybe they'll go back and forth a
little bit. This is the real deal. They are back
and forth. They are cat and mouse. Yes, And I
loved how it was done. And she played her part
to the tea and he did too, And he's obviously
much more rehearsed in it. Like you said, he puts

(15:03):
on this persona and I noticed, you said, the way
he flowed across the shop. I noticed the way he
shook her hand. He did his hand out in flat
instead of kind of a more traditional macho e man
handshake or whatever it is. Yeah, because he's a respectable,
you know, high class business guy. Whatever. I loved how
this scene kept me on the edge at any moment

(15:25):
she's going to reveal it and then to drop that
StarPath unit on the counter, and just went, oh, there
it is, and it was really well done. So we
jumped from there and we go back to another character
who has grown on me a lot. Part of Gaz.
He tells Hit about Dedra's failed attempt to arrest Acxis,
and Hit tells part of Gazz about Lannie's murder. So

(15:45):
things are starting to fall in place. They're knowing things
are happening.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
We don't.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
It's not Everything is not what it seems to be.
The Empire is going over the shop with a fine
tooth comb. We see, and as we've done many times
looking at everything in that shop, we see there's kind
of a pause over that one, you know, tablet looking
piece that is the father son and daughter hands that
we see certainly towards the end of Rebels. They're exploring

(16:11):
his ship. They're making attempt to rescue the comm's device
and figure out can they get information out of this.
Claia sees everything that's going on, as you mentioned, and
has to flee, so she heads to the safe house,
which has now clearly been abandoned for a period of time,
and she goes into flashbacks to when she was a child.
And this we've gotten flashbacks a couple of times over

(16:33):
the course of these two seasons of this show, but
not a dramatic large amount. So it jumps into how
she and Luthen met. Luthen at that time is a
sergeant named Sergeant Lear, which appears to be in the Empire,
and she's a child, and so we're jumping into that
at the same time, coming back to kind of real time,
she is looking for equipment in the safe house. She

(16:54):
pulls out a bag that's hidden in the ceiling, gets
some pieces out of it, and is clearly putting together
some sort of communications device contingency plans. On top of
contingency plans. In the flashback, Luthen hears a masacer going
outside the ship that he's on, and he keeps pleading
to no one, make it stop, make it stop. He's
clearly being affected by the horrors of this war. And

(17:17):
I wondered at one point Pete, because one of the
soldiers came in looking for him and talked about if
he said something like if you have any fire devices,
they said, burn it all. I don't think this was
necessarily Operations Center, but it gave operations c inder vibes
as their imperials going to planets and cleansing them with

(17:37):
fire and burning and taking over.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah, I think Operation Center would have happened after the Emperor.
You're right, but it is. But if nothing else, it
certainly shows the just the brutality. It's not enough just
to shoot people. It's not enough just on their houses.
They want to burn them down as well.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
In the background, we hear children, women, men, everybody's being
gunned down. And he opens a container on the ship
because here's a noise, and he finds this young girl
who becomes Clia, and we jump back again and adult
Claya is making her way to the hospital where Luthern
has been taken. So Pete, again, this is creating a
moment of building their connection. And also, and I don't

(18:19):
know that we had a lot of understanding prior to
this about the potential of fact that Luthen was an
imperial So how did I never put.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
Two together for that? Yeah, I never thought of that.
And to me, that struck me as as a really
cool kind of a piece, and it kind of makes sense, right,
And I mean, I'm just I was spending my time
trying to figure out when that took place, because again,
if this is one year Bby, he's a child, what's

(18:49):
she about twenty five? So this is this is right
around the end of the Clone Wars, maybe even part
of the Clone Wars. And but it also it's really
kind of one of the rare times that we see
Luthan as being extremely human, right, he was so impacted
by And again this I'm gonna put this in the
same category as what we talked about last week with

(19:10):
the the the Gorman massacre, just the you don't need
to see it, but you know what is happening outside
of hit But it was just it was so brutal
and you could see why any imperial officer at some
point could be pushed to the point where where Luthen
was so and.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
I have a thought and I have a theory, and
we're gonna come back to it at the end, because
you and I texted about it after the fact. But
I have some further thoughts about this particular situation and
Claia and this person. But we'll get to that here
in just a little while.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
Cool. Yeah, no, I've been thinking about that too.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
When I yeah, we'll get to that little I'll hang around.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
Yes, yes, let's make it through the commercial breaks, because
we're gonna be here well a little bit. We switched
back over to Dedra, who now desperately wants to keep

(20:12):
Luthan alive in the hospital and it's the ISB has
taken over the floor. She says something like to one
of the doctors that you'll be much more careful getting
your patients out of here than we will. And you
just know that again just seeing the Empire in their
most brutal for they don't care that there's sick people there.
They need to take care of this one patient and

(20:32):
that's all they care about. Well, disguised as a patient,
Clay moves now across the hospital and then she breaks
into a locker and takes a nurse's uniform and puts
that on. She's watching the ISB activity so she can
figure out exactly where luth is being held again. I
think this is one of the things, and I said
it in my non spoiler review, the use of this

(20:54):
character in season one is woefully underutilized. And to watch
her do this you also be to realize that she's
just she's brilliant at what she does. She knew, you know,
she's watching all the right steps to get to where
she needs to. Well. At a certain point, Dedra comes
around the corner and there's here it again, and he is, uh, just,

(21:15):
I mean, that's it. This is the end for Dedra,
the unlikely end for Dedra is in this hospital hallway,
and she's just she says, all right, fine, let's just
put it. She gives herself up at that point, because
I mean, what was she going to do at that
moment anyway, And I.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Think she had a feeling that maybe, oh yeah, they'll
arrest me, but then I'll get in touch with part
of Gas or somebody else and they'll go, No, she's fine,
let her go. I think she kind of gave up
because she maybe oversold her own importance in how this
was ultimately going to shake out. Is really how I
read that, because she did give up pretty easy, but

(21:52):
ultimately for her, it was about catching Luthen, like she's
been on that train from the very beginning and her
all in mission we've seen through so many different characters
throughout this show and so many different lanes, was that so,
I think, maybe foolishly she thought, well, that's okay, they
can arrest me, but all I have to do is,
you know, make my one phone call to Partigas and

(22:13):
everything will be fine.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
And it was not.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
So we flash back again Claiah still a young girl.
She and Luthen they're walking through a forest and we
kind of get maybe the earliest seed plantings of Luthen's
curiosity Shop as I've come to call it, where they're
making a deal for an artifact they've found with a
little dealer in the woods and they're playing father and daughter.

(22:37):
Claia kind of takes over the negotiation, gets the price
they want and as they're walking away, very kind of
classic scene, he says well done. She says, am I
your daughter now and he says, when it suits us.
So they've invested in a partnership. This is I've taken
you as my ward. Let's see what happens from here.

(22:57):
So we get another flashback that and again and they're
selling a Devonian victory necklace on another world, and the
Empire has a presence on that planet. So she witnesses
innocent citizens taking down to a fire squad firing squad,
excuse me, and she catches up to Lucien Luthen and asks,
when they start fighting back, when do.

Speaker 6 (23:19):
We stop fighting back?

Speaker 7 (23:21):
We have.

Speaker 4 (23:23):
By walking away.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
We fight you in.

Speaker 8 (23:30):
At least we lose and lose, and lose and lose
until we're ready.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
All you know now is how much you hate you
bank that you hide that to keep it alive until
you know what to do with it. And when I
tell you to move, you move. This scene with her
watching the firing squad to me was phenomenal and all

(23:59):
props to the little girl that acted as young Claia
because it very much reminded me. It kind of reminded
me of Aria in Game of Thrones. It also kind
of reminded me in the beginning when Ned Stark is,
you know, decapitating whoever it was for running away from
the wall, and they tell I think as they tell John,

(24:23):
or maybe they tell the other younger brother, don't turn away.
Watch She'll notice if you don't watch Claia made the
decision like Luthen didn't make her watch. Claiah made the
decision to watch these people get shot. But in her eyes,
in that actress's eyes, you could see her hardened for
the rest of what was to come. And I thought
that that was a really powerful moment. Yeah, I think

(24:46):
you're right.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
And I think it's that thing where he could have
grabbed her and hid her and shielded her from that
moment because he knew it was coming, but he opted
to let her go ahead and watch it. And I
think he knew it was It was one of those
critical moments, and you know, as ugly as it was,
it was good good for her to see it, I guess.

(25:07):
But it's it's also interesting too. The you know, these
two back to vaccines were great because it showed him
hardening her and preparing her for this life that they
were now going to have to be committed to. She
was going to you know, you're my daughter when it
suits us, and she she doesn't cry, she doesn't get upset.

(25:28):
You know, he says, I didn't mean to upset you.
But she's fine with it, or at least pretending to be, which,
of course, is that sort of that step toward, you know,
hardening your shell so that you can handle this hard
life that's ahead of them for sure. Well, then there's
another flashback and looks like Naboo. They don't say it's Naboo,
but it's Nabo.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Looked a whole lot like Naboo. So in my head canon,
it's one hundred percent right Naboo correct.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
And they're sitting in this beautiful cafe and they look
across the lake and there are imperial tanks lined up
across this bridge, and Luthen tells her he needs her
to be sure that she's making a choice to live
the life they're living. And she says to him, you know,
why are you doing this. You're afraid, and he responds,
I'm only afraid of what I'm doing to you. And

(26:16):
this is again going to that building that relationship and
making sure that she is the person she'll need to be.
She says she knows what she wants, and then he
hands her a detonator as if to say, Okay, if
this is what you want to do, go ahead, and
as she's about to take it, he takes it back
from her. He presses the button, and the tanks explode.

(26:37):
There's screams and panic, and he just says, we'll be
leaving now. We made our choice. And it's interesting that
he didn't let her do it, but he knows she
was ready to do what she needed to do, and
I think that was all he needed. He didn't need
her to be a killer yet, but she's ready to
be one as needed. And then, of course this mirrors

(26:59):
what's happening right now on Corussant because she is detonating.
She's detonated multiple levels of medvas across the hospital and
uses this as a distraction to finally get up to
Lutheran's room and she sees him. He's on life support,
and she approaches his gurney in this room, this big, stark,
white room, which is a common theme not only just
for hospitals but just for the Empire, just how soulless

(27:23):
it all is, and she disconnects the machines and his
life monitor slowly fades, and she sheds a tear and
she watches him die, but she knows she had no
other choice, and she gives him a kiss on the
forehead and makes her escape, and that's the end of
that episode. Nick I was I don't know. Maybe when
I've been watching this, I've just been missing some obvious

(27:44):
things because I feel like I'm like, oh, I should
have called that. I thought she was going to save him, right,
I thought she was going to try to get him out,
But then when she started disconnecting the machines, I knew
that was her only real choice. He wasn't strong enough
and even if he did survive, they were going to
catch him again, and that was her only choice.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
I think it goes to and I think we set
her up for exactly that moment watching the firing squad,
showing that she's really willing to push the button. He
didn't make her do it, because at that point, it's like,
as a parent, you and I have to had moments
where we've said, are you ready for this? You've got
one that's going to be driving, I've got some that

(28:22):
are going to be you know, are you ready for this?
Here's your chance. But sometimes you don't have to make
them do the thing. You just want to know if
you need to, you can. So she's set up through
these flashbacks for us to be able to go. She
recognizes the game, she realizes what's at stake, and to
go back to earlier in the episode, he said, we've

(28:42):
used up perfect there's not a perfect escape. There's not
another way for this to go. So she does what
she knows he would have wanted her to do. And
I think that's the other part of it. She was
with him long enough and from a young enough age
that she went, this is what he would have told
me to do, or he would have done for me,
or whatever. That might be so very very powerful. Yeah,

(29:08):
you're one hundred percent rate on that. If it was
her on the journey, he'd have done the same thing.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
Yep. That's a really great point. Yep.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
So that, as you said, was the end of episode ten.
That brings us right to episode eleven as we keep
this thing going. He had arrives at the hospital and
wants access to the security logs after telling his assistant,
I love this. Make sure all of this is blamed
on Mirro. This is all Dedra's fault. This is very
much the ISB for sure. As we've watched the interplay

(29:36):
between all these different members of the ICB is the
stereotypical CYA situation. It's not me, it's somebody else.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
I wasn't there, don't ask me. Everybody's trying to cover.
Crinic has Miro in a questioning cell. This is such
a great scene, Crinic and I love that classic like
pushes the button, turn the cameras off. Time to go
in there and talk nobody else, kiss it. He entered,
asks who else knows? And she says about what? And
he responds, what single thing would drag me into this

(30:09):
forsaken basement? Say it? Say the word. She relents ultimately
and says death star, And he presses who else knows
about this? And she starts in she knows what he's after.
She said, I'm not a rebel spy, and he responds
with at the moment, that's the only plausible scenario. He
asks about Lonnie, when did she give him his code

(30:30):
cert and she is shocked to find out that he
even had it, Like she didn't know that her COLDE
clearances were compromised. Critic continues to press, and we didn't
get enough critic in this series. I'm just going to
throw that out there as a light critique because I
know how much you and I both like that character.
But these scenes were very much chewing up the scenery.

(30:51):
He continues to press her, and he said, who told
you about Galen Arso? And what she admits, which I
did find this a little bit fascinating. She admits that
she had received intel bundles by mistake and didn't report this,
but like had been going on for a period of time,
like just kept getting them. And of course she's curious
and she's a climber, and she wants to move up

(31:14):
and be important, so she read them, whether she admits
to reading all of them or not, because she says,
I only opened a couple.

Speaker 8 (31:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
And it's it's that concept of scavenger, which is kind
of interesting as that whole thing happened. You know, you
first realize that she hasn't gotten maybe necessarily the access
that she wants, but she's scavenged to find all this stuff.
And given that stuff, you know, if you're a scavenger
and some questionable intel comes across your table, you're gonna

(31:42):
have a you're gonna have a look at it, and
you're gonna save it. And of course, as we know that,
that turns out to be.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
A pr well for her. So she also learns during
this process that Lannie spent three hours the previous night
logged in on her account, so he tells her, and
I thought this was such a great line. If you're
not a rebel spy, you missed your calling. And dedre
tells Krinic that Luten's assistant was not at the shop
when she went, and that anything that he would know,

(32:11):
she would know too, So it might be a little
bit of not misdirection, but like trying to get some
of the heat off of her. Look, it's not me.
I know he's in the hospital, but there's somebody else
out there. At this point, she is defending herself with
everything she has, and that's about the last club she
has in her bag.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Yep. And you're right too about this being the best
Krynic stuff, you know, maybe we've ever seen. It was
five minutes of you know, as you know, I don't
have to say it. Orgon Chronic is my favorite Star
Wars character in the Disney era, and this was just
like I felt like those scenes were for me. I
just wanted to watch them over and over and over.
He was just so perfect. Because I think one of

(32:51):
the things that's interesting, maybe we'll get into it later,
but this is not a terrible time to bring it up,
is we're seeing Crinick at the height of his power, right.
I loved him in Rogue one when he was sliding down,
when he had lost control, And now we see why
because all these pieces were falling out, not just he
wasn't just delayed in launching the Death Star. All this

(33:11):
shit's happening around him, Like, yeah, it's just mess after mess.
So I thought this was great because this was the
what he was great. So well, Clay makes it back
to the safe house and she starts bringing out equipment
so she can send a signal to who will understand
it to be Wilman on Yavin. Wiman's girlfriend Adrina found

(33:35):
this signal responder under their bed. They're not supposed to
have a signal responder. There's not supposed to be any
any unregistered sort of communications. But he needs to find
it and he needs to listen. So this is where
we PASSI and are playing some poker type of game.
It's not it's it's not sabah. But it was fun

(33:56):
to watch him play, and it was really cool because
now you get to understand and like, I feel like
they were using these games to train K two to
be more human, or not even human, but just to
be more part of the part of the squad. And
it was just, you know, again, five minutes of K two,
Melchie and Cassie and just having fun. And it was

(34:18):
also one of those few moments you see in in
the Rebellion where they can actually relax for a minute.
It's a rare rarity.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
And I thought the thing I found the most fascinating
was you're playing a game with a droid, right, Like,
this is a computer. This is someone who is literally
programmed in actual real life to be good at these
things a million times more than you as a human
or a whatever. Yeah, but they're playing a bluffing game. Yeah,

(34:49):
and bluffing is not a droid thing. Like, that's a
human emotion and that's a And it was just fun
to watch because they're even like just like if we're
having pocon night with our buddies, yep, they're like, you
don't have any more tends. Like they say that to
him and he's like, uh And you know, all props
certainly to alent Tutic and what he does. But literally,

(35:09):
the design of K two, and I have more to
say about this later, the design of the face of
that droid with those eyes literally can express every single
emotion from something that is essentially stabbed, and it's fascinating
to me.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
Well, you know, it's funny. I didn't think about it
until you just said it, and I think it's a
really you know, you often free like I always used
to say when I was an English major in college, Like,
you know, did f Scott Fitzgerald really put all that
symbolism in it? Or did we just have to search
for it in the great Gaspee? And in this case,
this may also be one of those really great pieces

(35:44):
of writing that shows, you know, what is the rebellion
versus the empire. The empire is this organized, structured thing,
and the only way to beat them is to do
something they don't expect. And you know, bluffing is doing
something that the robot does expect. So that's a really.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
It's a human versus a machine, yeah, versus ahead kind
of thing.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
That's a great catch. Well, Willman comes in, He interrupts that,
he shows them that they're getting this signal. They're not
sure exactly who it's from, but they know it's coming
from something that K two decide that they need to
get out of there. They need to go follow up
this signal and see what's happening. And rule follower K

(36:26):
two is because he had one of my favorite lines
of the episode where he says, I've been counting the
number of orders we've disobeyed. Would you like to know
how many? Seventeen? And it's just it's just K two
in his way. But because they didn't file a fight
and it's going to bite them later and they essentially
stole a ship to go track down a luth and

(36:46):
Rail mission. Then back at ISB. Kranick and Party Gas
tell here that he needs to issue Claya's image as
far and wide as possible. Part of Gas says, just
just tell the people that she's got a disease she
left the hospital and infection that's going to kill anyone
she's in contact with, just to increase the urgency without
having to say what she really did. And after here

(37:08):
it leaves Party Guy says to Krenick that he was
supposed to be done with the Death Star by now,
and it's a miracle they've kept it as quiet as
long as they have. Again, this goes to the exact
thing that Krenick is dealing with in Rogue one, and
you know it turns out again long term to be
his downfall in.

Speaker 7 (37:26):
Rogue one, And I just want to come back to
the K two line about do you know how many seventeen?

Speaker 2 (37:43):
Another great callback to in Rogue one when he says
do you want to know the chances of whatever it
is is going to happen? And he just goes, it's
high and it's a very droid thing. And that's what
droids do. They do math and computations. Three p I
did it all the time. Yep, you know three thousand,
seven hundred and twenty to one. He's going to tell
you what the odds are of whatever is going to happen,

(38:04):
because he's there whether you want it or.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
Not, whether you want to know.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
But again, the interplay between Clinic and the party gas,
I think it is fantastic because again very misinformation imperial tactics,
you know, lowercase imperial tactics, not just you know, the
galactic empire tactics. Okay, we're trying to get this person.
Just say she's a disease. She escaped with the hospital
and an infection, like put everybody on highlert. We don't

(38:30):
have to say why. We get that another series. We
get that in Kenobi when they put out the looking
for Obi Wan Kenobi and they put his face out
on the little message in the town that they're in.
Put it out there. We don't care, just make something up.
It doesn't matter. We just need to get that person back.
I'll go no quick yep.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
And then again I'll be because as soon as part
of guys gives here that information, critics response is there,
you have it? Why are you still here? Like, go
get the shit done, stops, you know what you do,
don't make me tell you again.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Well, and on the flip side of that coin, as
we come back into the episode, we have here visiting
Mirro in her cell. He's coming for advice, like this
is a guy who's barely keeping it together himself. He
just happens to be the one on the other side
of that door. And she figures out Luthen's been murdered

(39:24):
and he's hoping it comes to her because he hopes
that Dedra knows where Clay might be.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
And Dedra says to look at the old records and
see what they can learn from the radio that they
pulled from Feryx because she's been on this for a
very long time. She has been trying to track him down,
so if anybody's going to know, she's going to be
the one that is going to know. We jump to Yevin.
We have Willman taking a scolding from Draven, which kind

(39:53):
of just seems like most of Draven's existence is just to,
you know, crawl people's ass about something and then come
back later and go, hey, by the way, we need
you to do this. But Luthen calls and you come running,
he says, and Wollman reminds Draven that none of them
would be here without Luthen, the base, the rebellion, any
of it. And of course that response didn't go for

(40:14):
super well, and Wolman is combined to his quarters. Cassie
in with the signal device, sends a signal back to Clea.
Upon arriving at Corrouscant and the communications lead for the Empire,
they're cleaning out Luthen shop. They're trying to figure this
whole thing out. Manages to get a signal on the old,

(40:35):
burned up comms board. So now again the chase is
on cat and mouse. How close are we going to
get to tracking them down? Pete with Dedra and heret
going back and forth. It really stood out to me that,
like it could have been either one of them flipped
on either side, you know, one in the other person's position.

(40:56):
Did that read that way for you?

Speaker 3 (40:58):
Yeah, I think so. But you know, in a way
I kind of put this on. You know, Dedra sort
of prided herself on being so sort of detail oriented,
but she left so many little strings here and there,
and you know, Here, to me is just sort of

(41:19):
a junior Dedra. He's just doing everything he can do
to get to that next level. And you know, I
think at the end of the day, at the end
of episode twelve, I imagine Here has moved up multiple
levels as a result of the toppling tower above him. So, yeah,
but you're right, I mean they could have if she
had played the cards slightly differently, he would have been

(41:39):
taken the fall for all of this, and she wouldn't
have had she wouldn't be where she is. So well,
Here takes a shuttle over to the area where they
believe the signal is coming from. That signal that came
in from Cassie and sort of tipped where where Clay
was sending it from. And so of course Cassie and

(42:01):
Melchi and K two have landed their ewing, and they
tell K two to wait in the ship as Cassian
and Melschie make their way to the safe house. As
the Empire arrives, they scramble all the communications in that area,
and suddenly K two and Cassie and Melshie can't make
contact with each other. Just as here shuttle lands and

(42:23):
again there's a K two. Only just uh oh, it says.
Cassie and Melschie make it to the safe house just
as the Empire is starting to triangulate the location. They
know approximately where it is, but they don't know exactly
and it's just you know. Just as that happens, it
allows Claya and Cassie and Melschie to have some conversation.
Claya tells Cassian about the weapons program. She does not

(42:46):
want to go to Yavan because she knows the way
that part of the rebellion feels about her and Luthan.
She doesn't want to go there. She wants Cassine to
take it back. She knows she won't be welcomed by
the rebels. Meanwhile, K two decides that if he can't
reach Cassie in the next thing to do is just

(43:07):
go in find him and help him because he's going
to need help because he can see the Imperials coming in.
He breaks into the shuttle kills the soldiers that are inside.
The Imperials start to close in on the safe house
and suddenly that's the end of episode eleven. Again a good,
good place to end it. But thank god we have
the next episode ready to go, because I don't think

(43:27):
I could have waited days for that.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Could not have waited. And just to go back to
the character design of K two Soo in that moment
when he realizes that the radio is not working, and
like you said, he says, uh oh, but you can
see it on the face of this non expressive face.
And it's the same way in the Last Jedi when

(43:50):
Leah says to three Po, you know, wipe that scared
look off your fate or nervous look or whatever she
says to him, yep, and you're just like, the face
doesn't change, but you can see exact actly what she's
talking about. And I love that. And even just the
and again shout out to the audio, the sound folks,
the sound design folks, because even in that quiet cockpit

(44:10):
when the radio goes down and you get that little,
you know, noise that indicates something's wrong with communications. The
sound of his servos, Yeah, just add to the perfect
feeling of there's tension and there's nervousness and this isn't right,
rt Rent. Just a little every little bit of it
just again just adds to the beauty of what it is,

(44:32):
and it feeds the emotion well.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
And I always go back to I remember seeing pictures
of K two before Rogue one came out, and I
don't know if I don't think you and I were
we're talking it then we was twenty sixteen, so it
was yeah, it was a while before even the podcast
came out. But I remember I was like, that's a
really weird and unoriginal.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Design, Tam.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
I thought. I thought it just looks like a battle
droid of some sort something. And again, to your point,
the fact that he can just by moving the little
white lights in his eyeballs makes all the difference so great.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
There, it does it every time. So we jump directly
into episode twelve and Claa they're in that safe house
and says, Yeahvin, after all of this, what a bitter ending.
Just a little bit of a slap in the face,
like seriously, I have to end up there, And Cassian says,
you are keeping Luthan alive. You need to see the
place you helped build. You need to tell them what

(45:28):
you told us. And this is something that Cassian has
grown more and more into, which is seeing the value
in all the people and all the participants in this rebellion,
which I'm going to talk about in a little bit.
But K two he's on the he's on the on
the rescue path. He has murdered the crew of that
Imperial shuttle. He's damning their communications. I love that where

(45:50):
they're monitoring it from a cross cour asignt. You see
the ship go red, like all the vitals are gone.
There's nobody left here, kind of classic horror movie like
last one. Quick Claya packs up and is ready to leave,
just as the Empire reaches the door of the safe house.
The Empire throws a stun grenade and a gunfight ensues.
Part of Gas is monitoring, asking for more troops, but

(46:11):
apparently they are all out looking for the disease warrant,
so they have kind of messed themselves up. They sent
people away when they needed them. In the meantime, K
two is on his way to Cassie and Melchie and Claia.
He picks up here who has stayed behind the gunfight.
And I loved when they pulled up and they were
kind of doing the whole like, don't worry, you can
stay behind us, We'll protect you. And he put on
his little flat jacket stormtrooper armor. But that's not going

(46:35):
to help because K two picks him up and uses
him as a human shield, walking down the hallway, taking
multiple blaster shots by the way, and Cassie and Melchie
watches troops are shot outside the door of the safe
house and just again very classic, K two sticks his
head in the doorway and he says, Cassian, I've cleared
a path, very matter of fact, just letting you know

(46:57):
you're fine. It's time to go. So Melcha caras carries Claya,
and then he and Cassie and K two return to
the uing and they make their way out of course
hunt And I love the shot of them flying away
as you see those Imperial little transport police vehicles coming
this way as they're going that way. Just that very traditional,
like just in the nick of time getting away.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
Yep, yep. And I think what's interesting here too is
we're only I don't know, ten minutes into the episode
at this point, but I think at that point there's
a switch as you're watching it, and I don't know
if you picked that up too, but I was like,
this is where sort of the recap and the end
starts to happen. Right, I feel like there's no more

(47:40):
action that's going to happen in the next thirty minutes.
It's going to be set up from here. But what's
amazing about this show is this is some of the
most entertaining setup I've ever seen. And you know, there again,
there's I think that's it for gunfights and battles and
that whole thing for the rest of the show. But

(48:01):
it's just all set up so well. But back on
Javin Saw is speaking to man, Mathma, Bail, and Draven
via hologram, and it's very reminiscent of a scene in Rebels,
which we'll talk about in some of the lower connections,
and he Saw says, whenever I'm being scolded for troubling you,

(48:21):
I'm reminded that the rebellion is bigger than all of us.
And yet when you feel inconvenience to all I hear
about is how small and fragile it's become. And Mon
tells him that they know he's on jetta picking off
imperial transports and that's making things difficult for all of them.
And then finally he says, how many more meddling squealers
have you sent my way? And now this is great

(48:42):
for what I loved about it was, now I get
why he's so paranoid by the time you get to
Rogue one. He doesn't trust anybody who's coming in that door.
And it's not just because the rebels are because of
the imperials. He doesn't trust the rebellion either, So he
said if only He finishes the conversation by saying, if
only you could fight as well as you lie, And man,

(49:03):
that's just that you know that the Partisans are just
not a good fit for this rebellion. And again we'll
talk a little bit about a scene from Rebels, and
I think it was I think there was put in
here for those that didn't see Rebels. That's my impression
of it. Someone enters the room and says the Admiral
Radis is requesting support as the missing Ewing is coming
in hot and requesting a landing, Draven arrives in the

(49:25):
control room and he Ratis tells Draven, you're lucky merricks away.
He'd go shoot him down himself. And you all remember
Marek from Rogue one who led the uh the battle
into Scaiff. X Wings engage the Ewing. They don't fire,
but they escort them. Escort Cassian and the Ewing to
a safe landing, and they're graded by a whole handful

(49:50):
of troops. They take Clay to the sick bay and
they instruct K two to power himself down and the
ship until further notice, and Cassian tells Draven that he
has important news.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Yeah, and this is another one of those classic everything
so far has been classic K two moments. The X
Wings are patrolling and escorting them, and he just waves
out the window with his little robotic like, hey guys.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
It reminded me too of in Rogue one, where he says,
you know, if they're destroyed, he'll survive because he's a
Roboton here, he says, I intend to tell them I
was kidnapped.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Yes, exactly. Yeah, I'm not taking the human side of it.
And I love what you said earlier about you know,
what is the training, he says in Rogue One, Cassian says,
he just says, whatever comes into a circuit, it's a
byproduct of the reprogram. I love that there's just this
kind of slightly wild card, glitchy droid. Who you know,
he may say something, he may be human. We don't

(50:48):
really know. But it's so good and it's so fun.
So we have Draven. He escorts Cassi into a meeting
with mon Mathma Bale, Organa Ratus, Senator Pamelo, and Senator Jebbel.
Cassian admits that leaving to rescue an old friend was wrong,
but returning recklessly was a result of what he learned.

Speaker 8 (51:09):
Well, let's have it.

Speaker 4 (51:10):
Captain Luthen Rail had a source in the IUSB, a supervisor.
He was hidden there for years. Yesterday on corscont Luthen
was called to an emergency meeting. The source told him
he just learned that the Emperor's secret energy project was
the cover story for the manufacture of a weapon.

Speaker 8 (51:29):
The energy project, that's hardly a secret. We've been funding
it for.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
Years without details or inspections. What kind of a weapon
are we talking about?

Speaker 2 (51:37):
I don't know about the weapon, then what's the point?

Speaker 9 (51:40):
Let him finish, Luten was told that there's a connection
between the Gorman destruction, the Kiger mining on Getta, and
that Imperial engineer named Galen Urson.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Jebel says it sounds like a paranoid fantasy, but Cassian
makes it a point to say Luthen died for this.
Let's not belittle or minimize the sacrifice that this man makes.
Listen rail dight for this, and how has that been verified?

Speaker 3 (52:08):
Are you serious, Captain?

Speaker 8 (52:11):
The problem, Captain is Luten. I know you share a
long history, both of you. It's hard not to wonder
if your judgment here might be less than objective.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
I'll have to disagree.

Speaker 4 (52:24):
It's everything I know about Luthen that makes me believe
this is real.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
So Pamelo says if Luthen's death has been verified, which
is very insulting to Cassian obviously, and Bail presses saying
that Luthan is the problem with the story and that
Cassian and monmothemous connection make him make them less than objective.
Pamelo says he's been a thorn in their side since
building the alliance. Cassian, of course, is getting angrier and angrier,

(52:50):
and he says, do any of you have any idea
how much you owe him. Jebel rubs his eyes dismisses him.
Cassian says it's insulting to watch people who have given
it a fraction of what Luthen has to this rebellion,
and then Bail shares that over the last year they
had heard that the ISB was onto Luthen, which we
kind of knew, of course, and that it's just as

(53:12):
easy to believe that Luthan was being played as it
was anything else. His secrecy, his inability to collaborate, the
doubts he created and made everything unbelievable. And I think
this is a really fascinating place for the storytellers to
put not only us, but to put the rebellion. Everybody's
not quite sure about anybody. I talked a couple episodes

(53:35):
back when Bail shows up, and I felt like he's committed,
but he's not as committed as I wanted him to be, Like,
there's how much of the middle is he playing? How
much is he being safe and being careful? And we
see some more of that, So at this point it's
kind of stand off. Everybody's got a pistol in each
hand and everybody's pointing one to somebody else, waiting to

(53:56):
see who's the first one that's going to shoot, which
just canntinues to fuel the fragility of what a rebellion is,
especially when we're comparing it to Sagerera and you know,
just go crazy, just go kill people, just go shoot things.
But man Mathmas trying to be the voice and the
difference in all of that.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
Yep, it's interesting too, the setup of showing her disagreeing
with Saw at first, but never really disagreeing with Luthen.
And you know, it's funny because I remember watching Rogue
one and you may have felt this way too, but
it was so frustrating to watch Pablo and Jebel and
Lord Jebel or however you say his name and other

(54:36):
senators be like, no, we can't do anything about this
and just sort of taking that back seat. But watching
this and understanding why they may not trust information, it's
because of the way they've gotten this information just doesn't
necessarily always make a connection. And and you know, you

(54:56):
get and this is one of my observations for later
you understand why maybe it kind of makes sense Bell saying,
you know, hey, if the Empire is about to get him.
The best way to flush him out is to give
him some big story and get him to panic, and
that'll flush him out. So the story of this weapon

(55:17):
could very well just be a story. So it was
really interesting to make those connections. And again kudos to
Tony Gilroy and to Bissel who wrote this particular episode
to make those connections and to make it feel like
you get it. It's no longer just sort of this
vague we don't trust him. I know why they don't

(55:38):
trust him. I don't like it, but I get it.
So I think that that's great. So they can find
Cassie into his quarters, because that's what Draven does does
and walk. While walking back to his quarters, Draven tells
Cassie in that Tivik, who we meet in Rogue one,
is his connection to Saw and he has sent three
urgent messages from Caffrin in the past ten hours. We're

(56:00):
now starting to if you saw Rogue one, you're now
able to start making specific direct connections. So Mon then
visits Bell and tells her that Luthan is dead, and
Man tells her that she needs something from Vell one
more sort of a spy mission. She says that Cassian

(56:22):
brought back some information, and information she won't tell her
what it is because she wants him to tell it
to Vell, and Mon wants her to tell her if
she should believe it or not. And then Cassian tells
Will that Luthian's dead. Luthan is dead, and that he
made it worth it. A Vell visits Cassian, who pours
a drink for them to share and a toast to Luthan,

(56:44):
and then they list off all the other people who've
sacrificed for the rebellion and drink a toast, and Vell says,
Mon wants to know if your Luthn's story is real,
to which Cassian replied very similar to what he told
them before he died for it, and that Claya wouldn't
lie about it.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Pete, this is such a great scene, and I love
the fact that man Mahma is still trying to figure
Cassian out. And she says, I want you to help
me believe him. So she sends Vel on this little
you know, fact finding see what he'll tell you, and
then I want to know if it lines up with
what he told right, because the rebellion is fragile and

(57:36):
the rebellion is fragile at almost every point, even going
forward from here into rebels, into new Hope, into everything
that's happening, because rebellion is built on spying, Rebellion is
built on betrayal, Rebellion is built on having people on
the inside, So you're never entirely sure. Yeah, we had
people on the inside of the empire, but who does

(57:58):
the empire have on the inside of us? And so
despite him showing up and rescuing her after her big speech,
despite you know, the demonstrative things that he's done, like
going to get Claia, bringing them the information about the weapon,
whatever he's learned, there's still that moment where she said
and I just love that line. In fact, I wrote

(58:19):
it down. Help me believe him is what she says,
And I just think that's such a great It's a
great testament to who my mathema is too, because she
doesn't prejudge. She's trying very hard, but she also has
to be careful because of everything that's happened so far. Yep,

(58:41):
Claia pulls herself off of the machines in the infirmary.
I always love when people are unplugging themselves from the
hospital a little bit uncomfortable. But as this is happening,
we hear Nimick's manifesto from season one. His words are
going through, we get a couple just kind of mind
tize shots as it's going along, and as it finished
that and I loved how they did this because when

(59:02):
I saw it the first time, I thought, Okay, this
is just a voiceover that is for us the audience,
as we're putting together the moves and the things that
people are doing. But we cut to part of gas
in again. Maybe my favorite Star Wars set is that
isb conference friend that again looks like the inside of
Spaceship Earth at upside. He's listening to it because he

(59:26):
pushes the stop button and it stops.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
Miss that.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Yes, he's listening to it, because what's his name that
comes in there to talk to him, says, I'm sure
you've heard this, and he says bits and pieces.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
Oh wow, so good wow, because.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
This so it's become that thing where it's spreading, and
they talk about that it's spreading, it's getting out.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
It is even put that together.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
Wow, you can't control the fire. You don't know where
it's coming from. But it's spreading throughout the galaxy, and
so I loved that moment because, and again I have
a lot of it's hard to say you love a
bad guy character, but part of Gas is so well played,
and I love this character throughout the show that he
has that moment and it just cuts to his hand.

(01:00:14):
And I had a note earlier about all the imperial
tech in this last episode that feels like old seventies
Star Wars, the way the coms look and the way
the buttons look and all that stuff. And he pushes
that button and it stops, and he says to what's
his name that's in there with him, Yeah, Logrette. He says,
you've heard this, and he said, I've heard bits and pieces.

(01:00:36):
Where's it coming from? Nobody knows, And so it's just
it's that power of this is spreading and it's getting
away from us, is what I read out of part
of Gas hearing all of this.

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
So I did not pick that up.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
That part. That part is really really.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
Because, like you, I thought, oh, it's a voiceover that says,
but honestly it felt like an out of place voiceover.
So now that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
That's really it's going to make more sense, So Logrette
tells him. He says, I'm afraid they're waiting for you, sir,
downstairs or whatever it was. And he asked for a
moment to collect his thoughts, and of course Liagrette leaves
him to it, and he waits outside with two stormtroopers,
and this is the scene where the stormtroopers felt very real.
Yeah yep, guarding the door, helmets on blank expressions, and

(01:01:24):
we see part of Gas. He's in this room by himself.
He's sitting at the table. We see this great overhead
shot as he puts the blaster on the table, which
is not a DL forty four, but it is very
much in the neighborhood of a d L forty four.
It had like a side something at it on it
and as you kind of predict and know its coming,

(01:01:44):
you hear the blast from outside the room, and I
love the motion Logrette just does that one puts the
hens up because the troopers start to move in and
he knows what party Gas did. He's not going to
face the consequences. He took his own life because he
knows what's waiting for him. He saw what happened to Dedra.
He knows what's coming for Dedra. He knows every other

(01:02:06):
person that's been in one of these situations. The Emperor
doesn't have, you know, grace, there's not Oh well, you
messed up, try better, you know, apology accepted. Captain Needa.
He knows where things are headed him. But it was
a great scene and it was very very powerful.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
Yeah, you know, it makes me one of the things
that I was I started to think and I might
have even said it in our show last week. I
can't remember, but I thought if we were going to
get crazy sort of cameos, it was going to be
this episode. And I thought we might have seen him
walked before either Vader or the Emperor or both, and
that would have been so but it was so unneeded

(01:02:44):
because you're right, I would imagine it was probably Vader.
He was going to see, right, because Vader's the enforcer.
Vader was going to shut it down. But he didn't
make it, and I thought that was great. You know,
I really feel like if Vader was in this episode,
that's what we've been talking about for the last twenty minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
That's right and even and I think the same thing
with the Empire or the Emperor. I'm sorry, because I
had several moments when I thought, of course, they can
throw Ian McDermott, even in a holiday hologram, you know,
something like that, a little walk by, a little you know,
kind of like they did in Acolyte, a shot from
behind something, having to face the music, the doors closed,

(01:03:24):
we know what's going to happen. I love that it's
the scene that could have had more, but didn't require more.
They shot it in exactly the right way to leave
it on the table without having a show. Don't tell
yep is what it was? Yep, for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
I was really it was powerful and I think of
all the characters who have died in this series, I'm
most disappointed podcast died. Like you said, I just like
he's He's a bad guy who's just done so so
well so.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
And I love and just to give credit to the actor.
And now I'm blanking on his name, Anton Lesser, He
Anton Lesser. Absolutely all the credit to Anton Lesser, because
Anton Lesser plays Kyburn in Game of Thrones, and I
hated him from the beginning because he did that so well.
He was Sirce's little lackey ye who came in.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
He was the.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
The whatever his name is and he didn't get his
chain because he was outside the law and you know,
experimented and did all that crazy stuff, and he played
that so well and he did it in such a
good way. But as soon as part of Gas showed
up in the show, I was like, I like that,
there's something about that guy that's like your grandfather who's
probably seen some stuff. But also at the end of

(01:04:39):
the day would like pour you a drinks and be like,
let's just sit down and talk.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
Like, Yep, very very well done. Yep, it really was well.
Claia stumbles through the rain on Yavin as we return,
and we see Vell leaving Cassian's quarters, and she says
that he should reconnect with Bicks, and he says, well,
once this whole thing settles down, maybe, and as Belle
enters the evening night, she says, well, don't wait too long,

(01:05:04):
and then Vell finds Clia and gives her jacket, and
then back at Velle's hunt, she tells Clia that she's
sorry about Luthen and that Clia says it had to
be done again, sort of what we said when we
saw it happen in episode ten of this series. So Claia, though,
is lost, and it's interesting to see her like that again.

(01:05:25):
She's been played so well as such a mastermind, but
she's truly lost. And she says, Luthen always told me
not to go in unless I know how I'm going
to get out, and then she says, I have no
idea where I am, and then Bell gives her the
I have friends everywhere. You're here with friends, and so
even though you know the leadership of the rebellion may

(01:05:47):
not have been welcoming of her, there are people who
she's worked with who are there and supporting her, and
that probably makes a huge difference for her. Melchie and
K two have been released and they returned to their
quarters with Cassian. Draven has brought them back and he
is waiting to speak to Cassian outside and Draven tells

(01:06:08):
him that Tivik is only on Caffreine until tomorrow. He
offers Cassian that Jetta has two star destroyers overhead. There's
these facts about Jetta and that an isb Mole and
Luthan were dying to get the rebellion in motion, and
he says, if this is all a trap, it's a
brilliant way to spring it, and so Draven has bought in.

(01:06:28):
Cassie asks how he can get to caffeine, and that's
where we end up meeting him in Rogue one. Then
we cut to a scene where Cassian is dreaming of
his sister and we see a cup with water dripping
into it on Canari, and then we see Cassian's sister
and she says, cass and then he's woken up, Nick,
what are you thinking about us?

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
It's really hard and I don't think because of course
there's a little bit of an age difference. Looking at
the actress, it's hard not to want to think they
were trying to plant a seed that maybe Claya is
Cassian's missing sister found on a planet Cassian. Obviously we
see in the first season the Little Kids, there's things

(01:07:13):
going on with the empire, rescued by Marva, all that
kind of stuff, and then we have you know, what
if his missing sister is one of these other kids.
But now that's making me doubt even as I'm saying
this out loud. When he's looking for her his sister
in the first episode, how old was his sister?

Speaker 10 (01:07:32):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Does he tell us, Oh, she was a teenager. We
were together two years ago, or have I not seen
my sister since she was seven? I don't remember, but
I will say living in the moment, and this is
where I'm going to let my fan card not be
in jeopardy for not knowing every single fact in detail.
Living in the moment of watching these episodes. All of

(01:07:53):
a sudden, I sat up a little bit straighter in
my chair and went, are they trying to tell us
that Claya and Cassie and her brother and sister and
this is how they found each other or got back together.
It was done in such a way to just leave
you wondering, which is also the most fun.

Speaker 3 (01:08:08):
I can't. I don't think it's her. I don't because
I feel like that would be I mean, of course
his classic star wars to have a brother and sister
reunite and that sort of thing. But I think it's
just another sort of reminder of why he's doing everything,
because after he talks to Bail, that's when we start

(01:08:29):
seeing kind of everybody else throughout the show and sort
of what happened with them. In a way, it's kind
of to me, I saw it as they're sharing that
because they want to show you how his journey started,
and so he's been because what did he say, I've
been in this battle since I was five years old
or whatever, and igu one. So but again, you know

(01:08:52):
who knows. I mean, it's again, it's like the Sopranos
ending it could have been. And you know, if that's
you know, somebody's head canon, if that's your head cannon,
that's awesome, go for it. That's that's totally legit. And
if nothing else, maybe it's just sort of a reminder
that they both lost someone or but yeah, no, and
they did it in a way that's vague enough so

(01:09:12):
that anybody can read into it the way they want.
So and if this were a Twitter conversation, I would
tell you're wrong and that you're an idiot you don't
know anything about Star Wars. But I mean it's a legitimate,
legitimate fossibility.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
So it was fun. It made me pay attention, and
it gave me just another like, ooh, this could be
a something.

Speaker 3 (01:09:32):
So yeah, yeah, and it was also it was also
a point at the show where they could have there
was still enough time for them to make that connection too.
So when K two wakes him up, he says, the man,
you do not like is here and it's Bail Organa,
and Bail tells him that General Travement has your orders,
meet your contact and do it quickly. And Cassie asks
what changed, and Bail tells him that if he's going

(01:09:53):
to die fighting the Empire, he wants to do it
going down swing. Little did he know a couple days
later on Old Around he would die fighting the Empire,
and Cassian tells him that he and Luthen would have
gotten along better than he thinks, and Bail Organa offers,
what I think is the first and only may the
Force be with you in the entire series.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
I believe that is correct. Yeah, and I hate to
harp on all the k two great moments, but also
when he wakes Cassian up and he says, waking up
humans is always so weird, like just I don't know
what makes you think, ooh, this should be the thing
that Android says in a Star Wars show. But whoever

(01:10:34):
roast that cheers to you And I'd like to buy
you a beer sometime because it made me laugh out loud. Well,
as we are cruising quickly towards the end of this episode,
Cassian has gotten his orders. This is what I love
about my man Cassian and Or before he leaves, he
waters his plants. He takes the time, gets that watering
can hits a couple of different plants on a couple

(01:10:56):
of different shelves. I live in a house full of plants.
We're very planty people. I appreciate that it of course
I appreciate it because I'm like, oh, yeah, I have plants.
And that's a dumb thing to connect to in Star Wars,
but it also is to me a commentary on the
state of Cassie and Andor and where he is. He's
not rushing out the door in a hurry. He's got

(01:11:17):
a mission, he's got a purpose. But there's an order
to things. And if the order is I water my plants,
I put my blaster in my holster, I put on
my cool jacket because I have a cool Star Wars jacket.
He's going to do those things. He's not crazy and
willy nilly and calculated and spilling out the door hoping
I have everything I need. Like he is a professional.

(01:11:38):
He is you know who he has been built to
be all along.

Speaker 3 (01:11:41):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
So he heads out to his ship and it begins
this great montage that wraps up this episode in the series.
He passes Melchie and a bunch of other troops who
are training in the jungles. They're running, they're doing PTE
and we know we're going to see them fighting on Scariff.
In Rugue one coming up, we have Wilman and Drina.
There's sharing a cup of coffee in a quiet moment.

(01:12:02):
Mon Mathma and Velle are sitting with the troops of
her breakfast, which is a different, very different situation than
her life on Chandrilla where she was royalty and nobility
and all these big, cool, crazy things. We also see,
and I thought this was a great callback. We see
Mine's husband paren in the back of his limo being

(01:12:24):
flown through the early morning light of Courusant with Runei
Scolden Davos, Golden's wife asleep and presumably hungover on his lap.
He takes a drink and I mean, you got admire
man who's still slugging whiskey as the son's coming up.
But that's a different conversation for the wife of his
daughter's husband, right his daughter's mother in law.

Speaker 3 (01:12:48):
I had to literally go and look up to make
sure that that was her, because I was like, I
know I saw her before, but I mean it just
tells you everything you know about paren too. He's just
living for the moment. They were probably a drinking the
night before, and he doesn't care that it's you know,
Davo's wife. It's a woman he's with that night and
that's the way things went.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
So it's just, yeah, it was again. And to see
the stark difference to paint that versus where man Mathma
is I think is also very much well. Scene Clay
awakens in the infirmary. Dedra sits down in the prison cell,
which looks just like the prison cells that we saw
in Narkeina five where Cassian was crying upset. The lights

(01:13:31):
go off, those red lights along the edge which don't
step out of your little cubicle onto the floor, You'll
get zapped. Yeah, and Cassian's doing the hero strut. He's
going across that landing area and I love they take
the extra beat for the force healer to take note
of him. She turns that person is here, she's had
the conversation about him. He nods her way. Then we

(01:13:53):
see saw in Jedda looking out that same window. We
see him looking at as he meets his demise in
Rogue one, Star Destroyer. In the distance, Cassian gets into
the ewing Kreinick is watching the Death Star construction. Something
else I loved about this is, of course, when we
see Rogue one, we see the Dusk Star, we see
the dish being put into place, but in this weird

(01:14:14):
a day or two ahead of that, so that big
hole is empty, like it's on its way, but it's
not there yet. It's like when they rolled the space
shuttle out at Cape Grinavil. It's gonna take a couple
of days to roll it down that big road and
get it in place.

Speaker 3 (01:14:26):
Such a great attention to detail it was. I noticed
that too. I was like, okay, where's this. Okay, they
did it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
Wait and then cassiing and K two they lift off
from Yavin and they head into the atmosphere because we
know they are headed for the Ring of Caffreine. And
of course K two, never without a comment, says it's
nice to have a flight plan for once. It's like,
you know, oh, we're doing what we're supposed to.

Speaker 3 (01:14:51):
Yeah, And and funny that Cassie just ignores them. It's like.

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
I noticed there were several intentional moments. And we may
talk a little bit more about K two in a minute,
but there are several moments when K two, almost like
a puppy, would like ask a question or seek a
response or a validation, and Cassiean was just like all business.
Just ye, no response or you know, all of that.
So it just keeps it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:18):
Going and then you know, at the end of season
one there was an after credit scene. There is no
after credit scene here, but this last one, much like

(01:15:40):
the scene where Bicks took out doctor Gorst, we get
a scene which which plays a lot like in an
after credit scene. Back on mina row. We see we
see B two Emo playing with other droids, which made
me very happy that B two is okay, and I
felt like, okay, they're just going to show us that
B two is okay. That's fine. The camera pans back

(01:16:02):
to that wheat, to one of the wheat fields, and
we see a dark haired woman and she's carrying something,
and as we come around we see that it's bis
Bix Kaleen and she's holding a baby and she looks
out onto the horizon and tells the baby it's okay,
and she smiles and then the smile turns a little sad,
and then she looks across the horizon, and then there's

(01:16:23):
a quick snap to black. Nick. It's obvious we're not
even guessing here. That's obviously Cassiean's son and or daughter.
But I'm pretty sure it's the son. I just have
that feeling from I don't know, were you surprised by that, because.

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
That's the only out of ten no notes? Thought it
was exactly the right way to end. And I even
think because as soon as it happened, I was like
the thought I had was of course, And I think
she knew when she left. I don't think this was
something that she figured out after she left, purely because

(01:17:03):
I think she did truly have Cassian's motivation for the
rebellion and knowing that if she stayed, he wouldn't do
what he was meant to do. But I think she
also knew she was pregnant, and so that was only
going to jeopardize him even more. And so the pressing
nature and the urge to get out for his sake,

(01:17:25):
for their sake, for all of it was very tragically poetic.
We talk a lot in Star Wars about poetry and
how these things rhyme, But this is life going out.
Cassian's life is going out. He's going to make this
big sacrifice, and this new life is coming in in
the form of his child with his lover, who said,

(01:17:48):
you have a purpose to save a lot more of people.
It's not just about the kid that his sacrifice, you know,
the forty people that end up dying on scaff However
many people it is, how many thousands of millions of
lives does that say by the time the death star
is blown up?

Speaker 3 (01:18:06):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
So it's a very bigger picture moment that is told
so well in such a small, beautiful, simple way of
a woman standing in a wheat field holding a baby.

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
Yeah, yep. I even picked up a little bit of
similar angle to the looking out of the horizon that
Cassian has at the end of Rogue one. And yeah,
I think you're one hundred percent. I think she knew,
and I think she knew that if he she couldn't
risk putting him in a situation where he had to
make a decision between her and the baby or the rebellion.

(01:18:40):
Because she knew that, and she, you know, maybe the
force healer convinced her that, you know, it was something
he had a bigger thing to do, and whether he
survived it or not, what really matters is that empire
needs to be destroyed so that this baby, his child,
her child, could live the life there meant to live.

Speaker 2 (01:19:00):
So yeah, yeah, absolutely incredible.

Speaker 3 (01:19:04):
Such a perfect ending. And again it's the only twist.
I didn't expect it, but it was perfectly done. You
know a lot of times you see these sort of
twists and you're like, oh yeah, Like, for example, the
end of Black Panther two and you find out that
I felt like, all right, well, they're kind of just
pushing that for a sequel, right, that kid's going to
show up again in like, yeah, we'll probably get a

(01:19:27):
book somewhere about you know, Cassie and Junior somewhere. But
it didn't feel like it was there for a sequel.
It just felt like it fine. It's the final note
on Cassian's story. This is why it all happened so.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:19:42):
This is the part of the show where we take
a deep dive into some of the themes and some
of the storytelling. And you know, I think we've been
pretty lined up on themes for the first three weeks.
I wonder if we are here for because to me,
the theme of these last three episodes was the difference
between sacrifice and and from Claya having to sacrifice her

(01:20:04):
father figure to Lonnie literally sacrificing himself to get information
about the death start to Luthen, I mean, he had
to know whether the Empire caught Um or Luthen. God,
he wasn't getting out of there alive. To Big sacrificing
her life with Cassie, as we just talked about, to
raise this child that he's never going to know, to
looking at things like the cowardly suicide of part of

(01:20:24):
Gaz versus facing the consequences. And you know, because to me,
it's brought home when Cassian tells Will again it's a
thirty second scene, but he just says that Luthen's Luthen
made it worth it. Right, he died, but he made
it worth it. But I also might say that there's
selfishness that comes with that sacrifice as well. You know,

(01:20:47):
the way Luthen operated with that sort of approach made
it difficult for the rebellion to trust him, and so
you know, it's it's it's sacrificing cowardice, but it's also
to a degree. You know, how are you going to
play the cards you've been dealt.

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
I agree with you certainly on the sacrifice part. I'm
going to take a different tact when it comes to
the cowardice side of it. And I do see some
of what you're saying. I'm going to go with its
sacrifice and the recognition of sacrifice, and the recognition of
sacrifice played in what you said Cassian telling will Luthan's

(01:21:25):
death he made it worthwhile Cassian repeatedly is doing things
going back for Claia, assuming or knowing that going for Luthen.
Luthen's gone, but he's bringing Claya back because what is sacrificed.
When he's having that conversation with Bail and Mine, Mouthem
and everybody else, he's also saying, you would like he's

(01:21:49):
honoring those who have put things into this. And I
think the difference is probably painted most starkly is sagerera
Saw is makeing sacrifices, potentially making sacrifices on behalf of
other people. But it's just a part of the deal.
Not we should honor this, we.

Speaker 3 (01:22:09):
Should, Yeah, And I don't see it as as Saw
making sacrifice. I see him just like you know, he
plays a you know, a different type of game. He's
just roll through the middle, right, He's uh, he's not
willing to he's not strategic sacrifices. He knows they're coming,
but he wouldn't even call him sacrifices. He just sort

(01:22:29):
of call them, you know, the uh, you know the consequence. Yeah, yeah,
of course of doing business. Yep. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
So I think for me, it's very much about watching
Cassie in and I'm going to get to this when
we talk about my MVP. But he's seeing the cost
that everyone else is paying, and he's he's kind of
our He's the one that's saying it out loud. Everybody
else is seeing it. My mathma has seen it, bails

(01:22:56):
seeing it because he's got a family and he's on
the hide. But Cassian is the one that sang it
out loud and making sure that it's not just getting
pushed aside in the midst of the machine that is
the rebellion.

Speaker 3 (01:23:08):
Yep. I would agree with then for sure. Well yeah, well,
speaking of that, tell us who your MVP is for
this week.

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
So my MVP is ultimately a toss up. It was
Cassian and Claia. I went with Cassian in the end
simply because I know that seems like an easy choice.
The show is his name for crying out loud. But
over the course of the four weeks that we've done this,
this is when Cassian comes into full Cassian, the full

(01:23:39):
Cassian that we meet in Rogue one, determined, mission driven.
All the pieces have fallen into place. The base is
there and in the process of finding who Cassian and
Or is ultimately going to be. By the time that
Flash goes off on the beach and Scariff at the
end of Rogue One, the humanity has come in to

(01:24:01):
undergird everything that he is. Yes, he shoots his guy
at the beginning because he can't climb out and he's
going to get captured, right, But it's also he sympathizes
with Jen after he goes to kill her dad. He
is carrying the flag for Bis and for Vell and
Claya and Santa and Will and Nimic and every single

(01:24:25):
person who has been a part of his journey and
a part of this rebellion that he is a key
portion of. He is the flag bear for their sacrifice,
which I really think was delivered very very poetically in
these three episodes.

Speaker 3 (01:24:44):
Yeah, I mean, I can't disagree with that. I mean
and ultimately, yes, sure it's it's it's named after him
and all. But the reality is he is the reflection
of all those sacrifices, you know, the when he and
Vell do the toast, all those names he touched in
one way or another. Right, So yeah, no, I think
that that's that's a good, good pick.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
Well, you've got you've got an MVP for us as well,
and of course I know who it is, and I
think most of our listeners it is. But go ahead
and draw that curtain back.

Speaker 3 (01:25:21):
Well, you know, I said I was going to pick
him last week, and I have to stick to it.
I have to stick to my guns. And so I'm
picking K two s O. And not just because he's
my favorite droid, but I love that from a storytelling standpoint,
he is that direct connection to Rogue one, and he
reminds us again that Star Wars and humor, that's humor

(01:25:42):
is the secret sauce to Star Wars, to the way
you tell a Star Wars story. But not only that,
he much like some of the actions that some of
our characters sook, he made the decision to find Cassie
and Melschie when the communications went down, and let's face it,
if he doesn't do that, if he stays but Melchie,
Cassine and Clia are dead and all of Luthen's work

(01:26:05):
is for nothing because it never gets out of Corussants.
So to me, I feel like that was a really
important kind of uh not just as a character, but
an action that he took that makes him my m
VP for this week. So well, let's talk a little
bit about lore connections. You know, there was we talked

(01:26:29):
about it before the Loftcat that finds Lonnie dead on
the park bench. We've seen him in Rebels, We've seen
him in Ahsoko, we've seen him in Mandalorian h there.
You know, they're the official pet of Star Wars characters.
I'm sure we also in Luthen's shop we get a
close up of the hands from the mural in Rebels

(01:26:49):
that represent father, son and daughter in the Mortis arc
of Clones Clone Wars. It's obviously not the one from
from Rebels because that was much lower, but you know,
some sort of a direct connection to that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
It's absolutely the same thing, same, aren't same? All of that,
which again that's what a great Let's just give again
props to the directors, the creators, the production designers. What
a great way to feed the Easter egg machine by
putting Luthen's cover as an antique slash curiosity shop. Because

(01:27:27):
we've had the Gungan shield things. In the first season,
we see some Indiana Jones stuff, which of course nerds
like me love. There's the headdress, and again, none of
them necessarily have to be like that probably wasn't Padme's
little Naboo headdress, but it was a Naboo headdress, and
so we all look at it and go ooh, I

(01:27:49):
know that thing without it being oh hey, Dan Jarn,
here's your long magnetic you know rifle from the animated
Holiday special, which that's not wrong either, please don't hear
me say that. But it was a brilliant way to draw.

Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
It, kind of like.

Speaker 2 (01:28:06):
What's his name in the solo movie, the bad guy
in his pleasure yacht. He has all the antiquities and
he has the blue skull from you know, the cover
of the old Star Wars books. I guess you have
great way to throw Easter eggs in with antiques.

Speaker 3 (01:28:21):
So I love that, and it's kind of a cool
way too, to remind us something I think it's easy
to forget when you watch a show as serious as
and Or, and as dark and as brutal as and Or,
and then you watch a show like, you know, even
Obi Wan, which you know had his dark moments, or
Mando or Ahsoka or the animated shows. It's a nice

(01:28:45):
little reminder that all this stuff happens in the same galaxy.
It all is happening at the same time, and you
can have one look for this and another look for
that and still tell stories that are connected and they
don't need to look and feel the same, but they
are all little connec in there.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
So yeah, and I think that that is something that
we're going to do. We've talked about a little bit.
We're gonna do a fifth episode to wrap up this
entire series and how it connects to Rogue one and beyond,
and I think we're going to spend a little bit
of time digging into some things like production design and
Easter eggs and some more of that kind of stuff.
So I'm excited for us to spend a little bit
more time with that coming.

Speaker 3 (01:29:22):
Sure, for sure. Well, a couple more lower connections we
saw Saw on Jetta looking at the start a story.
We talked about it. We saw Krenick overlooking the Death Star.
This puts them in place for where we catch them
at the beginning of Rogue one, and as well as
Cassian's wearing the same exact jacket. I went and I
checked that. I'm sure you did too, swear the same thing.

(01:29:46):
Mon Masma's hair the whole left of the whole season
season one and two. I was like, man, her hair
looks great. She looked really not. You know, she had
like a bold cut practically.

Speaker 2 (01:29:56):
She's got that military base haircut now. Yeah, and the
fines the lines of Chandrilla and Corus Hunt are gone right,
very utilitarian now the.

Speaker 3 (01:30:05):
Right and they don't But that's a detail they could
have left out. You know, nobody would have pushed on it.
But it was cool, you know, it was something we
picked up. Nick. We talked a little bit about it
before the scene between Holographic Saw and mon Mathma and
the scene in Rebel season four, episode three, talk a

(01:30:25):
little bit about that if you can.

Speaker 2 (01:30:27):
Absolutely and I think that this is you know, I
have such a deep love for Rebels. In that scene
that happens in Rebels. It's in season four, episode three,
which is called in the Name of the Rebellion, Part
one is so good. And when we get Salgerera in
rogue one, even in the lead up with and Or,

(01:30:48):
this is somebody who is he's spinning out and we
know he's spinning out. He's gone too far. And at
this point, man Mathama is trying to find the middle
to figure out She explain.

Speaker 6 (01:31:01):
This, tell me why whenever I'm being scolded for troubling you,
I'm reminded the rebellion is bigger than all of us.
And yet when you feel inconvenienced, all I hear is
how small and how fragile it's all become.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
This is more than inconvenience.

Speaker 3 (01:31:19):
Why should I believe anything you say.

Speaker 9 (01:31:20):
We know you're on Jeddter, so we know you're picking
off imperial transports. We're trying to share what we hear
about how dangerous that is making things for all of us.

Speaker 3 (01:31:28):
What you know what you.

Speaker 6 (01:31:30):
Hear, Pooky at my window? How many more meddling squealers
have you set my way?

Speaker 1 (01:31:35):
I'm trying to help you.

Speaker 9 (01:31:37):
You've already got an Imperial destroyer on site. Keep hijacking
these transports, and that will be the least of your problem.

Speaker 3 (01:31:43):
You have no.

Speaker 6 (01:31:44):
Idea where I am, or your spies and infiltrators.

Speaker 3 (01:31:49):
You think I still be alive.

Speaker 6 (01:31:50):
I hadn't learned to bid them as I wish.

Speaker 1 (01:31:52):
It's the empire that's after you saw, not us.

Speaker 6 (01:31:56):
If only you could fight as well as you lie.

Speaker 2 (01:32:06):
Like she's kind of pleading, saying, we actually are on
the same side, but you're going too far. You're picking
people off, and we're trying to protect you. And he's done.
He's not hearing it, and he's always pushing. And that's
that whole thing.

Speaker 3 (01:32:20):
I love.

Speaker 2 (01:32:21):
When they get off the call, she says to Belle,
she says, it makes being in the Senate seem easy,
which was a great, just little line. And so then
when we get to that episode of rebels, this is
the one where they're trying to take over the communications tower, yep,
and they want the rebels want to tap the tower

(01:32:43):
so that they can monitor Imperial ship movements all that
kind of stuff, because they've already had one big run
in with the fleet and took a huge loss. But
of course Saguerero's move is what blow it up. Let's
just take the whole thing out. So after they've had
this meeting, Canaan's out meditating as out there talking to him,
and it's not they are five droid, but it's the

(01:33:04):
one with the really tall, kind of pointed angular head
rolls out and plays this apolo video of Tsar members.

Speaker 10 (01:33:11):
Of the Alliance to Restore the Republic. Saw your losses
today stem from your leader's cowardice, their unwillingness to take
decisive action against the Empire.

Speaker 1 (01:33:23):
So long as our allies in the Senate have hope
of a peaceful resolution to this conflict, I will not risk.

Speaker 10 (01:33:31):
You continue to allow this war to be fought on
the empires terms, not yours. You are going to lose.

Speaker 9 (01:33:38):
If we degrade ourselves to the Empire's level, what will
we become?

Speaker 10 (01:33:43):
That is, that's the leader the rebellion needs.

Speaker 3 (01:33:48):
Where is that fire, that passion.

Speaker 10 (01:33:50):
When your people lead it most? I hope said, after
you've lost in the empire raids over the galaxy, you
will find some comfort in the knowledge that you fought
according to the.

Speaker 2 (01:34:06):
Rooms, the same way he makes the comment in this
episode when they're on the hologround. So that's that same thing,
those same moments that are running parallel to each other
of the tension between Sagerera the partisans. This far extreme
version of the rebellion, where my fam aside is trying

(01:34:27):
to avoid civilian casualties, is trying to make sure it's
that we're not being we're not becoming who we're fighting against, right,
which is ultimately what it becomes. And so I love
that we get that same thing chest up the hologram.
It mirrors even having Benjamin Bratt in as vale Organa. Yeah,

(01:34:48):
you know, I think the Rebels version is drawn to
look a little bit more like Jimmy Smith's, but it
wasn't hard to watch that and imagine it being either
one of us.

Speaker 3 (01:34:55):
Yep. Yeah, And I think I think episode four, well,
season four, episode three of Rebels, I think probably takes
place very close in time before that. And I think,
knowing that and having seen it, I did.

Speaker 2 (01:35:12):
Look that up. They're both one bb Why they're in
the one area, it's just probably a matter of, you know,
a month or two, because I would imagine obviously the
season four Rebels episode is a little bit after what
we see in this episode of and Or. Okay, but
they're you know, I think it's after because everything's progressing,

(01:35:34):
the Death Stars out there, they're trying to figure out
how to get the rest. But you could be right,
it could be before because otherwise the focus of rebels
would be the death Star plan. So yeah, so the
reason they're kind of concurrent right there.

Speaker 3 (01:35:46):
Yeah, the reason I think it's before is because because
if you see, if Cassie and leaves to go to caffeine,
that's just two or three days before lay against the plans.
So I think it's I think again, you know, either
way though, if they're the same day, it doesn't matter,

(01:36:07):
because they're right.

Speaker 2 (01:36:09):
It would have to be before because by the time
they have the plans, everything's in motion, like that's the
only thing that's on the plate. So this is happening.
They're trying to figure out ship movements, troops, things, So
this could be in and around Cassie and running to course,
not to help Claya. This could be, you know, somewhere

(01:36:31):
right before that. So I think you're right, it does
have to be before that. So I'll mail my fan
card into whoever.

Speaker 3 (01:36:35):
I I'm so disappointed. Yeah, but you know, you could
say anything. After you pointed out the party guests was
listening to Nemics Manifesto. I just that literally blew me away.
I hope you picked it up while you're listening, because
I was like, WHOA, I didn't even get that. So no,
but I think it's But I do love that they

(01:36:56):
made the effort because to your point, Nick, that is
one of my favorite scenes in real when they face off,
when Saw and mod Mathama face off, And I'm glad
they made the effort to put another one in this
for the people who ninety percent who watch and or
will not have watched Rebels, they missed that that really
important scene they could have. Look, if you relied on

(01:37:18):
everybody to watch every piece of Star Wars, you could
have lived without that scene and it would have worked
because of what happened in Rebels. But by doing this
it also then sets up Rogue one a little bit
better too, and start one.

Speaker 2 (01:37:32):
If I've sat it one hundred times. If you haven't
seen Rebels, highly recommend do yourself a favor.

Speaker 3 (01:37:38):
Go do it. It's not a kid's show. You might
think it's a kid's show. It is the best. It's
some of the best Star Wars out there for sure. Well, Nick,
that is going to wrap it up for this week's
episode of Road to Rebellion. The official ATG and Or
after show, thank you so much for joining us on
this journey as we've broken down each arc of and

(01:37:59):
Or season two.

Speaker 2 (01:38:01):
And just because the show is over, that does not
mean we are done. As I mentioned before, we're going
to be back next week and we're going to look
at the show as a whole, the entire Indoor story
and the leger legacy of Cassie and and all of
the characters we have met in this connections to Rogue one,
New Hope, and probably some more connections to rebels as well.

Speaker 3 (01:38:20):
And now that you've watched all of and Or season two,
leave us a voice bail at five oh four, three,
two one, fifteen oh one and tell us what you
thought and we'll be happy to react to that as well.
And if you're enjoying the show, make sure it that
you are subscribed to the Around the Galaxy podcast wherever
you get podcasts, and don't forget this is just one
of the shows on the SSW network.

Speaker 2 (01:38:43):
And in addition to the Around the Galaxy podcast, you
can also join us live every Thursday night on our
YouTube channel. You can go to YouTube dot com slash
at the SSW network for all the Star Wars news
of the week, celebrity interviews, and your calls and chats.

Speaker 3 (01:38:59):
And if you want us what we do, you can
also head on over to patreon dot com slash the
SSW network and you'll get early access, exclusive content and
a chance to be a part of the best Star
Wars community out there for as little as three bucks
a month.

Speaker 2 (01:39:14):
And we truly appreciate you the listener, So if you
like today's show, please leave us a five star Wars
review on Apple, share it with your Star Wars friends.
You've got a dad and uncle, a cousin, a brother,
somebody who likes Star Wars, send them a link to
the show tell them to check it out. And if
you want to tell us what you thought about this
week's episode of Van or or any of Van Or,

(01:39:35):
just like Pete said, you can find us on social
media at the SSW network or leave us a voicemail
at that phone line five zero four three two one
one five zero one. We are always up for talking
Star Wars.

Speaker 3 (01:39:48):
Well, that is it for this week. Thanks again for
hanging out with us, and until next time, May the
Force be with you.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
And This has been the road to rebellion and we
will see you week.

Speaker 3 (01:40:02):
Wrote to rebellionis copyright twenty twenty five Pete in the
Seed Studios. For more information on this show and other
shows than the SSW network, please head over to the
SSW network dot com. Audio clips our copyright in twenty
twenty five for Lucasfilm

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