Andor Season 2 Reflections: Calls, Connections & Clarity (Final Fan Q&A)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I have a different plan in mind, but when I
say the word plan, that makes it sound optional, which
is not the impression you should be taking away. This
game ends now. You won't see it in your life.
You will think before you speak. I'll make sure he
visits twice a month. I'll make sure that he calls you.

(00:30):
I will guarantee a level of engagement, but it will
be inversely proportional to the volume of anxiety you generate
in our lives.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
I don't love, I'm not done well.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Hello, there are Star Wars fans, and welcome to our
final episode of Road to Rebellion, the official ATG and
Or after show.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
I am Pete Pletzer.

Speaker 4 (00:51):
And I am Nick Milky, and we thank you for
hanging out with us here all throughout the season of
Road to Rebellion on around the Galaxy, which is a
part of the SSW.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
And and Or ended a few weeks ago, but honestly,
it remains one of the most talked about Star Wars
properties that I can think of in years.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
It really has, and we know that you the listener
have a lot of questions, you have comments, you have
ideas about the show. So we decided the best way
to wrap this all up is to open up a
channel in the Hola Neet so that we can hear
directly from you.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
We figured there was no better way to end our
in depth look at and Or season two than by
taking your calls and questions.

Speaker 4 (01:31):
We are going to take every one of those calls
and questions that we received, and before we do, I've
done this every week on Road to Rebellion. We want
to warn you this is a full spoiler show everything
in and Or season one, Season two, Rogue one, anything
else in the Star Wars galaxy that may pop up
as a part of your question. So if you haven't
caught up yet, hip Pause, come back when you're ready.

(01:52):
We will be here ready for you to hear all
the things that we're going to talk about.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
We absolutely will. We wouldn't want to do it without
you because each week on Road to Rebellion, Nick and
I have unpacked the story, the characters, the big moments,
the little details, and everything in between. But this week
we turned the key points of discussion over to you.
That is right, and we're gonna get things started. We're
going to kick it off right now.

Speaker 4 (02:15):
Our first caller is from good friend of the show,
mister Jeff Qualia.

Speaker 5 (02:22):
Pete Nick, It's Jeff, okay, and I'm leaving this message late.
It's been a crazy week. So my main point about
and Or, what a show, what a season. It was
the most intense I remember a Star Wars show being
in I mean really since Mando season two towards the

(02:47):
end stirt the motion like that, I mean, it was.
It was fantastic, I thought. But here's what I wanted
to focus on that should be commended, I think is
the is the performances of the actors. The performances in
this show were so they were second to none, and

(03:07):
I think that's what is lacking on a lot of
these other shows, is the acting. Isn't that good outside
of a handful of a handful of actors that were
that performed well, But overall, the talent has not been good,
I don't think, and I think that's where other shows
have suffered. But the two seasons of and Or, the

(03:27):
casting and the performances were spot on. They nailed every
fricking one of them, even mon Maka's husband, that prick,
but everybody hated that guy. Anyway, keep it up, I'll
catch it in the rerun log a guy.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
Well, thanks Jeff for leaving that message. We really appreciate it,
and we appreciate you being a fan. You know, Nicky,
he mentioned mostly how amazing the the the acting performances
were in this and he does say something which is
an interesting thought, and lit's sit on that first, and
that is he said compared to some of the other
Star Wars shows. And I think the first thing that's

(04:07):
really important is you can like one show and still
like other shows. So I don't think it's necessarily And
knowing Jeff, I know it wasn't intended in that regard,
but you know you and I said from day one
that Carl Weathers was over the top in Mando, but
that was kind of his job, so he did kind
of play it the right way. What are your thoughts

(04:29):
on kind of the way the acting in Manda or
not Manda in and or versus the broader Star Wars
universe at this point.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
I think it's a really interesting point.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
And I think, as we know, with pretty much everything
that's out there, art is subjective, and what I may
think or deem over the top or a fantastic performance
is going to be completely different than what somebody else
may deem as over the top or too much acting,
or whatever it might be. I do think there's a

(05:00):
difference in the styles of the show, and we've talked
a little bit like about this before. I think something
like Ahsoka and Mandalorian to a strong degree, has almost
an animation feel to it.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
It's live action animation.

Speaker 4 (05:16):
It's more colorful, it's a little cartoony, even though it's
real world in real life. Acolyte went away from that
a little bit. Acolyte was a different thing. I think
there were some strong performances in that. I think the
Kenobi show kind of straddled that line a little bit
because you have Darth Vader who can branch both divides.

(05:36):
But I think something like Andor that certainly does not
involve the Force, that does not involve lightsabers and jedis
Jedi part Forgive Me is the most gritty, realistic feeling
of any of the Star Wars shows we've had, so
I think that paints those acting performances in a different light.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
That's how I'm going to kind of come at this.

Speaker 4 (05:56):
I think there are plenty of things that you could
go I mean, I thought Balen Skull i said this
last week was a revelation in Ahsoka, that character and
what Ray Stevenson did and the way it was acted.
But I could see somebody watching live action Ahsoka, who
you used to animate it, Ahsoka and go that something
doesn't feel right the way the head tails move, the
way There's a reason why these shows all hit differently.

(06:20):
This one is very grounded in what we would call
real world as I do air quotes for an audio
based format, So I think that in this what Jeff
is saying, and he's right, there are a million amazing
performances and we don't have the time to go through
and discuss and break down every single performance. But I
think for me, it's the most grounded and real feeling
of anything Star Wars we've gotten in a really long time.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah, and I think you're right. I think it does
definitely depend on the universe, right. I think the way
the Feloney live action stuff is it definitely it feels
like it's popping off the page and popping off the
screen from a Clone Wars episode or a Rebels episode,
and that's that's fine. And I think the way I
would put it sort of little bit more comic Bookie. Right,
it's a little bit more. You know you your characters

(07:04):
are you know fully, you know full chest whatever they
are is what they are. But that's but that's kind
of also the way. It's the way it just has developed.
And yeah, it is very hard to it's very hard
to put one up against the other. Nick, let me

(07:31):
ask you this before we move on to the next question.
If you you got to give a best actor best
actress in this series, who you're given it to?

Speaker 2 (07:40):
All right?

Speaker 4 (07:40):
If I'm going to give a best actor best actress,
and this is the most favorite child question maybe you've
asked me on this show in a very long time.
I think I have to go with Gosh for actress.
It's such a toss up. Yeah, I think I'm going
with Bicks for best actress. I felt, not that I
felt personally because I haven't been through the things that

(08:01):
her character has been through in my life obviously, but
it was real.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
There was a sadness there.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
I've been watching season one and two with my wife,
who was not a Star Wars fan, and when Bix
was on, at some point she said, which was she said,
I need her to stop doing the sad dough eyed
thing because it's bringing me down, like it's having an effect.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
It's way on her. So I think Vix.

Speaker 4 (08:23):
Would be I mean, I'm not even gonna name the
others because I want you to have a chance to pick.
So that would be my actress choice. I'm going to
go a little bit outside the box for my mail.
There's so many good males, and obviously the ones that
we all know are the ones we all know. So
my under underground sleeper is Brasso.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
I love Brasso.

Speaker 4 (08:42):
I thought he did, and I think he did so
much with not a lot of dialogue. There was a
lot of presence, physical presence, which is something that doesn't
always come through with every actor. There's a lot of
acting in his eyes because of course he had that awesome,
big bushy beard, But there was heart, there was genuine
and that was that was somebody you could count on.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
There was no question about it.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
From the first time we made him, when Cassiano's and money,
all the way through to when he meets his end
on Mina Rale just I felt that one as much
as I felt anybody else in the show. I thought
Brasso was a fantastic character.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
So you're giving to Joplin, Sibptaene and Adria Ariona, So absolutely.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
What about you?

Speaker 3 (09:21):
You know, you know there's so again, there's so many
and then you know what, they're almost all supporting actors.

Speaker 5 (09:28):
You know.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
I gotta go Genevieve O'Reilly just because of the amount
of time she spent on screen and what sold it
for me. We talked about it in last week's episode,
and I think we talked about it in multiple episodes.
Is I had totally forgotten that man. Mathma hasn't seen
any of the on the ground stuff. To her, the
rebellion is all about a vision and principles and you know,

(09:55):
something to raise your flag to. She forgot she hasn't
really seen the action and so as great as she
was all on the way when Mon when when Cassie
and starts shooting people in front of her, her reaction,
her response is great, It's perfect, And so I gotta
give I gotta give it to Genevieve o Riley for

(10:15):
mon Woe.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
But it helps. She would have been my other choice.

Speaker 4 (10:18):
So in no surprise for the show and listeners of
the show were on the same wavelength.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, Nick and Peter Green shocking I'm
gonna go outside. You know, look, I want we all
want to give it to Diego Luna. He did so great,
there's no question about that. And honestly, what he definitely
deserves credit for is being able to return to the
character he had done ten years ago and keep it
the same or go back before it was what we

(10:45):
saw and grow the character. But I don't want to
go that simple, So I'm gonna go Kyle Soler because
I think Ile Solar as as.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
As I can.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
I think of his character's name, karn cerial career, he
I think of all the all the characters, had possibly
the best growth arc, and he delivered it extremely well.
The first couple. I mean, let's say, and and our
friend Stephen Kent last week even said it. You know,

(11:16):
if you can't hate that character, you you can. You
can hate what he's about, you can hate what he did,
you can hate where he started, but you have to
feel sorry for him in a way. And when it
was time for his character to turn. And again I
wasn't rooting for him to win, but I felt bad
for how he got there and what he went through,
and he just he portrayed that so well because it

(11:37):
was subtle. It wasn't an over the time, It wasn't
a revelation, Oh my gosh, I'm fighting for the wrong team.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
It was it was just subtle enough.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
So we knew that he made that turn and and
he did what he was posed to do at the end,
and that was to kind of side with the uh
the Gorman uh front. And yeah, we didn't want him
beating shit out of our friend. Has he an end
to her? But you know that was he had made

(12:06):
the turnine and to do it again without a soliloquy
that says I've seen the wrong side of the world
and I'm fixing it. It was just really well done.
So so Kyle Soler gets it for me.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
And I think something that can go right along with that,
And that's another excellent choice. I made a whole list
I'm showing it to you again in an audio medium
of all the names that as I was listening to
Jeff's question, jotting down who was great doing this rewatch
of and Or one and two with my wife getting
into season two. I didn't pay as much attention to
this the first two times three times I watched those episodes,

(12:38):
but seeing it on this one from the very beginning
of when he gets to Gorman, he's not sure what
the deal is, Like he has that conversation where he
says to I think he says to his mother, He's like,
Gorman's not a threat. He's having that phone call from
his office in the bureau. And so from the very beginning,
and we see that as it progresses with that character.
From the very beginning, he's a little bit like, wait,

(12:59):
what's going on here?

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Like he's not bought in.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
And they planted those seeds really well to where yes,
he wanted to be a big deal, he wanted to
not disappoint his mother, but at the same time something
didn't quite add up, and that plays out in a
lot of subtle ways that I didn't catch the first
few times.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, yep, for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
I mean again, every single person there was not a
band performance anywhere anywhere, not a single bad performance. All right, Well,
let's move on to our next question. Our next question.
There's been a fan of our show who has DMed
me just about every week during and or somebody goes
by the name of the real Dodge, and I believe

(13:38):
he's located in the UK, or she I had I'm
not even sure they're located overseas in the UK, And
so they sent me a message and their response their
question was how did a leader and such a powerful
figure as luth and Rail remain so hidden from the
rest of the rebellion throughout the entire saga. I know
it's a paradox, and that if more people knew about him,

(13:59):
the greater the risk at the start, but he disappeared
from history. Obviously everyone who died in Rogue one, but
mon Mathma still knew of his impact. Will we get
a who started the rebellion show in the future or
is that beating the proverbial dead horse? You know, I
think it is kind of it is beating the dead horse.
But it is interesting to ask that question because, first

(14:20):
of all, we saw Nick that the you know, the
council didn't love Lutheran Rail. They didn't love his approach.
It worked, but they didn't love it. But you know,
sort of as an undercover cop in a way, there
was no way he could ever be revealed. And and
you know, in his great monologue to Lannie, he talked

(14:41):
about he's you know, how he's basically the He admitted
he's the unknown figure in this entire thing and never
will be known other than to you know, Mon Mathma's
probably the last person who remembers him. We don't know
what happened to Clea, We don't know what happened to Vell,
but man Ma us the only one who really knows

(15:01):
what he did to get them to where they are.
So yeah, and I think I think Indoor season one
and two was the the story of the early rebellion
for sure, but any ended that, Nick.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
So I have two thoughts that go along with this.

Speaker 4 (15:15):
The first one is I think there's the possibility because
we see from the very beginning of all of this
it's about protecting those involved. We see everything man Mathma
goes through in order to have her transactions hidden, to
be able to not link it back to people. Because
of safety, they are gonna stays behind all of that stuff.
We don't know.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
You said, we don't know what happens to Claia. I love.

Speaker 4 (15:38):
Somebody posted the thing they showed a shot of Empire
strikes back in hath before they evacuate, and there's somebody
in the background with an earpiece doing a radio something.
And somebody said, I like to believe that this is Claia,
you know, farther on down the road, which again I
love that it's like Captain Rex in Return of the
Jedi yep. But the bottom line is, we don't know
what happened with Claya. We don't know where Claia ended up.

(15:59):
So maybe this was a part of a way of
protecting Claib because she was the one most connected to
Luthen that we don't talk about, We don't mention offering
her the safety and security that everyone else needs as
a part of this rebellion. What I will say is,
and this is my own head canon, once the rebellion
is successful for the short period of time, it seems

(16:20):
like the rebellion was successful before the Forester Order and
that kind of thing. We have something here in our
real world at the CIA, we have the memorial Wall
with the stars, and these are people who have sacrificed
for the CIA but couldn't be named, but couldn't be
associated for whatever reason. I like to believe there is
some version of that within the New Republic where even

(16:42):
if nobody knew mon Mathma could walk by that whatever
the rebel signaled the starbird, you know, maybe there's a
row of Starbirds on the Wall that related to Cassie
and gin Luthen Mnemic, Tivik Melshie, anybody who was involved

(17:02):
in some of these things, the nameless Manny Bothans in
Return of the Jedi for DEAs Star two, because spoiler
alert friends who always complain about this, that's Das Star two,
that's not Death Star one.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Two different things.

Speaker 4 (17:14):
But that's how I've decided to build that in my
mind is maybe there's some sort of wall of unknown
soldiers unknown some things.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
We see it in Clone Wars.

Speaker 4 (17:23):
We see the cloned Soldier wall that they're standing in
front of in season seven.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
That's how I've added that up.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
The other part of the question, who started the rebellion
show in the future, I think this is it. I
think this is who started the rebellion show. Everything that
leads up to Star Wars nineteen seventy seven is the
who started the Rebellion show, and then the rebellion continues
from there. So I think that, of course we'd love
to mind this in a lot of different ways than
we might in books and comics in the future, but

(17:49):
I think.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
This is the one. This is the one that sets
it all up.

Speaker 4 (17:58):
Well, we're going to move on to our next caller,
and this is from our friend Brian Miller. Brian was
just on the show a couple of weeks back on
ATG Live on Thursday nights free plug for us. Join
us on Thursday nights live for ATG Live. We have guests.
We have a fun game that if you like sports
and know the show around the Horn, we call it
around the Galaxy, and that's how we talk about Star
Wars News every week works the same way. Tons of

(18:19):
fun and there's a lot of ways to get you
involved in the show itself.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
So here's a call from our friend Brian Miller.

Speaker 6 (18:27):
Hey, Pete, Nick, this is Brian. So think about and
Or and how great of a job Gilroy did in
working with the scaffolding that he was presented and then
building more scaffolding on top of that or to the
sides of that. I'm wondering what each of your top

(18:49):
four folks off.

Speaker 7 (18:51):
Of the and Or hubb might be.

Speaker 6 (18:55):
What are four storylines or what are four news series
or new developments that you could see coming off of
this that may not have been around if we did
not have and Or saw is a possibility, but again
we knew that before and Or? What did and OR

(19:16):
bring in terms of possible spin offs possible new scaffolding
for the Star Wars universe. Thanks so much for what
you guys do. I enjoy listening and watching to care.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
That's a great question, Nick, Let's each take two.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
If we were gonna have two spin off shows or
four total spin off shows from and Or, which four
would we want total?

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Right about it?

Speaker 4 (19:43):
I'll do one, You do one, Walter Nate, We'll see
what we come up that works for me, perfect, all right.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
I want a backstory on part of GAZ.

Speaker 4 (19:50):
I know imperial things are not necessarily you know, the
Imperials are the bad guys. That character was a great one,
and I'm sure part of my affinity was I knew
him from Game of Thrones is Kiburn he but he
did such a good job. And again not to reference
my wife watching indo her for the first time, but
he's been on the screen several times since she goes.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
He's really good at this, and.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
I think that to get a part of gas story,
we know how it ends, and I don't think it
has to be a prequel.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
We don't have to go way back to early stuff.

Speaker 4 (20:18):
Let's get the most recent few years, get him tied
up in something with Tarkan, get him tied up with
you know, a run in with the Emperor or Vader
or something along the lines in the imperial bureaucracy.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
With that actor doing that, that would be a lot
of fun to me.

Speaker 3 (20:34):
I love that, because you know, there were other things
they were chasing down. The ISB wasn't just focused on
the things that we saw, So it would actually be
cool if we saw him going after another thing and
having tark And warn him, if you screw this other
thing up, it's over for you, and that way we know,
we know that's why he, you know, took the.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Route he did at the end of the season.

Speaker 4 (20:58):
And something like that creates a neat little mess mechanism
where if the pivot point is the empire, Okay, this
story that the Empire is focused on is Cassie an
end or but if you pivot over to another place,
maybe the pivot point is smuggling and talent card and
Han Solo. You pivot to another point and the Emperor
is dealing or the Empire is dealing with Wedge and

(21:19):
Rogue Squadron and some other like it's a way to
kind of pivot from different points because they are putting
in dealing with, as Nimic said, a bunch of different
rebellions all around the galaxy. So you could bring in
other characters that you know and are familiar with and
let him be the focal point of having to deal
with it.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
That's cool. I like that a lot. I'm going to
go sort of.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
Similar in that it's not necessarily a good guy show,
and that is I'd like to see a show called
The Rise and Fall of the Partisans, and I'd like
to see sort of how it is. I mean, what's
really cool about Saulgerera's story. The more I think about it,
the more I think it's really incredible because it wasn't
planned at all. And that is that his first rebellion

(22:05):
on his home planet, he was trained by Obi Wan
and Anakin and and Ahsoka. He trained his troops, they
trained they're Partisans, so not necessarily that far back. But
what is it that I think there's a lot of
drama going on inside the ranks, and a lot of

(22:26):
fear of you know, almost Darth Vader level fear of
Saugerera himself. Right, if you screw up your mission and
you have to report the saw. It's like the apology
accepted Captain Nita. It is the same exact thing. So
it might be kind of a cool thing to see
some people who are doing it for the right reasons

(22:47):
but question the way they're sort of where they're put
into it. And you know, again, it doesn't need to
be the Saugerera show, but it certainly could be about
some of the things happening in the Partisans. And I
think we could be pretty confident that the Artisans ended
with with with Saw on Jenna, and I think that
was the last of their.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Impact on the rebellion. But I think it would be
a great, great and interesting show. I agree with that.

Speaker 4 (23:13):
So from my second one, Gosh, this is a tough
tough way to try and figure out because you do
have so many things. I think, what if we get
and again, this is kind of a location based show.
I don't know how many specifically, it's not a show
called Karelia. Maybe it's a show called Yavon. But what

(23:33):
if we get a show based around I feel like
now I'm naming Star Wars mash but let's just go
with it. Yavin the base we see it in Star Wars,
this is where they are, this is where they end up.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
That's where we are at the end of the show.
The camp, the inner workings.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
I've already talked about how I wanted to live in
Cassie and Vix's treehouse on Yavin. Yep, what if we
get some sort of centralized show about the rebellion, sending
missions out, bringing mission back. You can jump to the mission,
you can come back, but it's really about the structure
of what Yavin is because you can be mission specific.
But we also know, like so many other bases in

(24:10):
rebels and where they were in the beginning of season
one with the Maya pay folks, these bases aren't necessarily
safe either. These are supposedly old ruins. There's wildlife, there's
crazy creatures. It could be a little bit like Lost,
it could be a little bit like So maybe we
get a Yavin show. Maybe we get you know, a
little bit of time set on what happens out of

(24:32):
this place in the lead up to Star Wars nineteen
seventy seven where it all comes to a head.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
I love that, and like the season the series finale
is what those people who we've gotten to know and
Yavin are doing during the time of the Death Star attack.
Are they panicking or they packing their stuff? Are they
trying to get out?

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Oh? Man, I think that I bring in you.

Speaker 4 (24:53):
Bring in some folks like we did with mon Mathma
and Genevieve o'reiley. Bring in recast, some folks like Bigs
and Wedge and Porkins, folks that are going to launch
out of this base in nineteen seventy seven, Like you said,
run it right up to what's about to happen. These
guys in a millennium falcon show up.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Who are they?

Speaker 4 (25:10):
This kid from a Yeah, let's give him an X wing.
Let's make a whole episode about how controversial it is.
His teenager shows up and like, sure, jump in, you
can be with our air force and go fight somebody.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
We don't know you, but sure you know.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
And actually you could almost do it like a Mash
because Mash had that level of humor and the bittersweetness
of Mash was so good. Okay, So I like that.
I think I think that's that's a win right there.
I think that's that's really good. I like that a lot.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Gosh. I think.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
We've seen our friend cam Ray is doing a comedy
about Cyril and Dedra have our comedy. So I'm not
going to go there, but I think that there's probably
a decent spin off. I'm going to do it this way.
I'm going to call it. I'm going to do it

(26:05):
as a tales of similar to Tales of the Jedi,
Tales of the Empire? Was it in Tales of the
Bounty Hunters? And I always see tails of the ISB,
and again it's similar to your partagas thing, but it's
you know, three fifteen minute episodes of just intrigue and
just sort of showing those inner workings. And it might

(26:26):
be boring as a cartoon, but I don't know I would.
I'm just so I want to see more of the ISB.
I think they did such so they were such a
cool outlet and such a cool thing to watch, So
I want.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
To see more of that room.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
As I said from the beginning, it's like the inside
of Spaceship Earth at Disney World for that goot. But
also you're not wrong because of the care there was
a room full of people with stories. You had Line,
you had here, you had part of Gas, you had Dedra,
you had the other guy. I can't think of his name.
Every one of those people are a focal point. Every

(27:01):
one of those has a pivot point into some aspect
of what they were doing, and we get a lot
more of the ISB farther down the line when we
get to Mendo with what's his name, John Carlo Esposito,
his character he's is former ISB. And so there's a
deep history in that organization that is going to continue

(27:21):
to inform things farther down the line in the Star
Wars galaxy. So I don't think you're as far off
based on that as you might pretend to try to be.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
I definitely want that Yeavin show though, for sure. Well,
our next call is related and it's Scott from Montgomery
left us a message, so let's check that out.

Speaker 8 (27:46):
Guys, Good morning stuff from Montgomery here, first time, long time.
So now that and OR is over, many of us
obviously are thinking about what's next. Naturally, my question for
you two is what would you like to see next?
Is there a specific character or an era that you

(28:07):
would like to see explore featured in a series. Anyway,
that's it, Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
Well, since that's kind of similar to the last question,
let's talk about if So and Or was a series
that gave us background on another character who from the
entire Star Wars Gammut. Would you do you think that
they're not just would you like to see, but do
you think that there's enough history and an interesting enough

(28:38):
story to do to do a twelve to twenty four
episode series similar to and or Pete.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
That's a great question.

Speaker 4 (28:49):
And if we're going to get a backstory, let's get
a Jedi backstory, because I want the loss Ententeca story.
We get a tiny little bit of loss Centecha at
the beginning of the Force awakens. He has the plans.
He gives them the poe to give to BB eight
to hide, to get away. He has respect for Leah,
and I love the line, you know, general to me,

(29:10):
she's always going to be royalty, or Havery says it.
I already misquoted it, but I think he says she's
to me, she's royalty. Either way, there's a story there,
and that's a great venerable actor. He's not going to
be involved with it necessarily, but I'd love to know
what that story is. I'm pretty sure that story has
also been told in some books. So this is me
telling on myself because it was enough comics or novels.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yeah, he's been in a couple of comics, but I
don't count those. Sorry, that's right. If you're new to
this show, we apologize. If you're not Chris, we love you.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
That's not real. So let's do a Lord Santeca story.

Speaker 4 (29:45):
Let's build out where he came from, what got him
to this point. It feels like a lot of what
we're talking about is defined endpoints, which, let's be perfectly honest,
for show creating and show writing stories, it's a great
thing to have an endpoint that you know you can
target focus on.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
You don't start something I don't know where we're going
and I don't know how we're going to get there.

Speaker 4 (30:04):
Yeah, let's pick something that has an endpoint. So maybe
we tell a story about lor Sentteca over the years
that leads up to how he comes across the location
of Luke Skywalker and how he's going to pass that
along to Luke and I mean to Poe and BB
eight as a part of what the sequel trilogy becomes.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
I love that, and I'm going to take a similar
route in that. Again, there's probably a lot of information
out there. It probably exists. But you know, just like
Tony Gilroy said, I don't care about the story that
was written for Kate ts so this is his origin story.
I would love to see the story of BIG's dark

(30:41):
Lighter with a tip of the hat too. Star Wars explained,
and and Alex Damon, who I know is a huge fan,
but I think there's a story there again, a confined story,
a story you can do in twelve to twenty four
episodes of how he left Tatouin joined the Empire. And
remember he says in the cut scene. I think it's
on the cut scene, or maybe it was actually in

(31:02):
the movie. I can't remember where he's leaving. You know,
he's going to be leaving the Empire or they he's
leaving the Empire on a ship and he's going to
join the rebellion. Let's see that story of somebody joining
the rebellion from the Empire at the height of the Empire,
as would be the case for Big. So yeah, I mean,
I'll take either one of those Bigs or Lore Santiga.

(31:23):
I think that would be great.

Speaker 4 (31:25):
Our next question, Pete was on Blue Sky, one of
the social Media's We are on at the SSW network.
You can find us there anytime you want to on
Blue Sky. And it came from our good friend Jordan,
and Jordan asks, after watching and Or, does it change
the way you see Rogue one? I know I have
an answer to this, and you and I talk all
the time, so I know you have an answer to

(31:46):
this as well. But Pete, how does Rogue one hit
for you in light of and Or two seasons?

Speaker 7 (31:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (31:53):
I think everybody who's watched and Or we'll look at
Rogue one a little bit differently. But the way I
see it now is not as its own story. I
see it as a continuation of the and Or story.
I see it as episodes thirteen, fourteen, and fifteen, or
series episodes one, two and three of season three. I

(32:14):
just think it's such an amazing direct continuations. It's almost
it is almost like they plan to do it this way,
and I know they obviously didn't. This all came from
John Knowle saying, hey, let's do a movie about the
guys that are mentioned in the opening crawl, and now
we've gotten this really rich backstory about the rebellion. So

(32:35):
to me, it changes it in that it doesn't feel
like a standalone movie anymore. You know, it always felt
like a direct lead in, a very well done direct
lead in to a new hope. But now it feels
like an extension of what this full story is.

Speaker 4 (32:49):
I think for me it is one hundred percent just
I don't know if it makes me look at it differently.
I think it makes me appreciate it. Like we got
the movie, and it was a great movie from the beginning.
It was a war movie. We talked a lot about,
you know, it's a more movie. It's an espionage movie.
It's spies, it's a lot of these things. It was

(33:10):
very unstar wars y in a lot of ways, the
same way Land or Show has been, except for you know,
Darth Vader for forty five.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Seconds at the end.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
But what we get in this is something that when
it first came out, we're like, holy crap, that's good.
And these are characters, and these are all new characters
other than Tarkt and Darth Vader. But now we know,
like Cassian, Cassian was great. Jen is now kind of
the outlier Jeny when they're like, okay, she's here, we

(33:38):
don't know all of her story. We get her as
a little kid in the beginning. We get all that,
but like we're invested in Cassian and or one hundred percent.
We were invested in Mind Mathama because of Rebels and
the rest of Star Wars and some of that, but
we're super invested in Mind MafA.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
Now it's a different thing.

Speaker 4 (33:53):
So I think for me, it just gives it adds
layers to what Rogue one was. It's like, you know,
it's not an onion where you're peeling away the layers,
you're adding to them. So I guess this is like
rock formations over histories and times, we're just adding layers.
We're building it up. So it built Rogue one up.
For me, I've always loved Rogue one. There's never a

(34:14):
moment where I went I'm on the fence about this one. Yeah,
But now I look at it and I see little
things like I see Melschie and I think about him
in the Narkina arc, and I see you know, these
little bit Draven along the way, Like, oh, yeah, Draven,
there's more Draven in here.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:30):
Then he wasn't pain in the ass the whole time,
but we didn't know it because all we had was
the movie so I think for me what it does Jordan,
And to answer your question is yes, it adds to it,
not necessarily adding new knowledge, but just strengthening the love
and appreciation that I have for Rogue one.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
Yeah, And I think, look, if we're gonna sort of
fantasize about Rogue one being season three of and Or,
I think I think you would start and tell me
if you think this is a good way to go.
I would start with a three episode arc about Jen
and Galen urso as a three episode flashback, because we
did see some of of what was what was Galen's

(35:07):
wife's name, I can't remember it, but we saw her
on Corrossant, Lira right.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Right, Risen from the it's a mirror.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
Look it's but we have seen scenes of Lira and
Galen in Courissant with baby Jin, and I think that
that would be that would be That's the way I
would do it. I do a three episode arc about
that some sort of something that leads to his escape,
and then we got to get more about Rook, Boddy
Rook and his escape from the Empire and how Galen

(35:40):
gave him that message, and then you get, you know,
three episodes, which is essentially Rogue one.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
So yes, it's completely work. That's the way I would
do it.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
All right, Well, we have another voicemail question, and this
one comes from Eric, and he has a question about
a logic gap that has been created from and Or
to Rogue one.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
So let's hear what you got to say. Ap.

Speaker 7 (36:09):
This is Eric, longtime listener, first time caller. I have
a question about Rogue one. After watching season two of
and Or, of course I had to rewatch Rogue one
again and there was a bit of a logic gap
that I was looking to clarify. I was wondering why

(36:30):
man Mathma tells Jin the Alliance won't pursue Jin's lead
to go to Scaris, and so Jim goes to Scariff
with Cassian and some Rebel volunteers, and then eighteen minutes
in the movie, eighteen minutes later, the rebels on Yavin.
He texts some Imperial radio chatter about something happening on

(36:53):
you haven't and then they decide now is the time
to send out a serious contention of the Rebel fleet.
So what changed in their mind from their initial refusal
It felt like it was out of nowhere. Just to
sort of the purpose of the movie. So I was
wondering if you had details as to why that happened

(37:16):
that wasn't really apparent on screen. Thanks.

Speaker 5 (37:20):
Fun.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
It's a good question, I think, and I think there's
different ways to kind of rectify that. I think. I
think to me, a bigger part of that question is,
you know, how did the entire they had this whole
room of people who are like, we're not going after
this death Star thing. We need more proof, and you know,

(37:43):
now after watching and Or. The way I would use
the logic gap is they have a different trust in Cassian,
And I think if Cassian felt it was worth the pursuit,
then maybe the rest of or at least man Mathma
and and Ratus and some other people might have said, look,
he's been a little bit rash in the past, but

(38:06):
it's always turned out to be something for a reason.
So maybe they believe in Cassie for the first time.
I'm not sure, what are your thoughts, Nick.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
I think that that totally works.

Speaker 4 (38:16):
I also think that part of what we're looking at
is the catchphrase that starts in Rogue one that we
get an ind or rebellions are built on hope. And
I think exactly what you're saying is Cassian has a
little bit of cachet. He's built up a little bit
of trust, he's built up a little bit of whatever.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Is going on.

Speaker 4 (38:38):
And I think so in that moment when there's pressure
and they're arguing, and they're in that room and we're
not going they're on their own. But then somebody prevails
in some voice goes, you know what, we have to
try the tiniest.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
You know, we get it in Last Jedi.

Speaker 4 (38:55):
You know the spark that will burn down the first Order,
it's the spark that will burn down the empire.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
You have to take shots.

Speaker 4 (39:02):
And I think in something like this that we have
seen throughout both of these seasons, when you have different
groups of rebellion happening all over the place, it's not
going to be formalized. It's not going to be neat,
it's not going to follow an exact formula. Sometimes you
have to take gambles and risks. And you see that
in the war. If you study the American Civil War,
if you study the Revolutionary War, there were times when

(39:24):
unorganized groups went, let's take a crack at something, and
sometimes it worked. Sometimes it worked a big time, Like
Holy crap. We've seen some of that kind of stuff
in modern just in the last twenty four hours. But
I think what happens is at some point somebody in leadership,
like I'm on Mathma, steps up and says we have
to go, and she's willing to put her reputation on

(39:45):
the line to say I believe in this person.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
It may be a small group.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
You don't know him, but I do, so I'm willing
to step up and say, let's go.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Get his back.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
And so for me, it's the hopefulness of it that
drives that decision.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah, And I'm going to add a other sort of
layer to that. And there is one line from and
or where when Cassian is coming back in on the
ewing and Radis says, you're lucky Marek wasn't here, or
he'd be already up there taking him down, or something
like that. I think Marrek was probably with mon Mathma
and just itching to go. I think he's kind of

(40:19):
the sort of the space cowboy, the kind of you know,
let's take action kind of person, and between him and
mon Mathma and a new renewed trust in whatever Cassian's
doing might might have been the the straw that broke
the camel's back, so to speak.

Speaker 4 (40:38):
So our final question, Pete comes from our good friend
Matt and Enid Oklahoma.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
Let's see where Matt has to say.

Speaker 9 (40:44):
Hey, fellow, this is Matthew and I thought i'd leave
you a message for your final road the Rebellion Recap
podcast whenever you sid to record it, because there's been
something bother me for the last week. So one of
the same guys that was complaining about this about Rogue
one being tainted now because of and Or also said

(41:04):
originally that he wasn't going to watch the final three
episodes of Rogue one of and Or because he already
knows how Rogue one ends. So think about that for
a minute. That's a special kind of stupid. I don't know,
that's just spoke to me. But anyway, I'm back to
go bak an apple piere formass.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
That's random, I know.

Speaker 9 (41:23):
But anyway, have fun, guys, carry on, take it easy.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
Thank you, Matt. Yeah, yeah, there are people who are
going to complain about everything no matter what.

Speaker 7 (41:34):
You know.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
One of the one of the points there that's really interesting,
and I think it's a common Star Wars Disney era
television show thing, and that is do we need this
show because we know what happens?

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Right?

Speaker 3 (41:49):
And you know, that's like saying, did we need Rogue
one because we know none of those people were going
to survive? Did we need the prequels because we knew
what happened there? Do we need you know, any of
these things? So it's an interesting thing. But I have
to admit when I heard that the Indoor series was
coming out, Nick, I was like, Okay, yeah, I mean

(42:12):
that should be interesting. I don't know what else I
need to know about that guy. I was wrong, as
wrong as you can be, but it was. It definitely
was something that I was like, it's like the Kenobi shows, like, yeah,
he said in the desert all twenty years. Well nope,
he didn't. But that's cool. Let's see that story. So
what are your thoughts about that? So here's my thing.

Speaker 4 (42:34):
It's not a matter of I didn't need to watch
it because I know how it ends. It was I
needed to watch it because I know how it ends.
Like That's why I wanted to watch it. How did
we get here? That's the whole question that this is answering,
And that's the whole thing that John Dole came up
with you know, all that time ago was hey, what

(42:55):
is this story? And there's so many things that you
can do that with, And there's people ask the same
question about Han Solo. We know where Han Solo ended up,
what Han Solo did, but guess what we said, Hey,
we want to have a.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Han Solo movie. So we made a Han Solo movie.
That's what storytelling is.

Speaker 4 (43:11):
What is this story? Well, if it's not there, you
can make it up. If it is there, you don't
have to make it up. Somebody else made it up
for you. The reason I wanted to watch this show
is because I saw Rogue one and thought it was fantastic. Yeah,
and thought, great, let's flash this out, let's go to
some other places, let's learn about more of the history
of the empire. So what I'm going to say for

(43:31):
Matt and for whoever he saw that said it and
stated it that way, is it's not that they weren't
going to watch it because they knew how it was
going to end. That's what compelled me to watch it
is I knew how it was going to end. That's
what I wanted to know. How did we get there?

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (43:46):
Yeah, And I think that's probably the most important lesson
that I've learned from Star Wars over the last couple
of years. I mean, even you go back twenty years
to the prequels, is you could definitely walk in and say, yeah,
I know how this happens. Oh, Anakin Skywalker is going
to turn into Arth Vader. Okay, that's not a big deal.
I figured this out. But it's such a compelling story
to watch what happens. I don't need to watch the

(44:07):
Clone Wars cartoon because I saw Revenge of the Sith,
so I know what's going to happen there too now.
But the story, the seven seasons of story, and the
new characters and the people, And I think that's the
great thing about this Star Wars universe is we always say,
you know, it's about the background characters. That's where we
made up our action figure stories when we were kids.

(44:27):
And it is the background characters. It Yes, you got Luke, Leah,
Hahn and Vader and those are you know, those are
the big four. Those are the main characters. But it's
an entire galaxy which is dirty and rugged and has
people living their day to day and how does a
big giant galactic rebellion impact them, and that's those are

(44:51):
the stories. And I think I'm learning more and more
that those are the stories that I want. I want
those in a way more than not more than, probably
as much as I want some of the bigger galactic
impact stories.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Agreed.

Speaker 4 (45:05):
And I think the other place that we saw that
in the last couple of years was in Bad Batch.
We saw a lot of the Registration Act where they
had to get chain codes, and we saw the beginning
of that, which was a seed planet. In the Mandalorian,
we got cut and sew you know, former Stormtroopers or
Clone Troopers who were off living trying to figure out

(45:26):
what life was going to be like post being you know,
a soldier, and all these kinds of things. So we've
gotten this along the way in a lot of different ways,
but this is a very specific way that we got it,
and I think it only serves to enrich all these
other stories that we have gotten.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
And I really hope that this isn't the last of
this kind of prestige TV that we're going to get
in the Star Wars universe. Again, just because you like
and Or doesn't mean you can't also like Ahsoka, doesn't
mean you can't also love Grogu and the Strangers. So
there's so much Star Wars to take in. There's so
much to enjoy, and there's so much that that means

(46:05):
you don't have to love all of it. And I
think you know and Or struck a chord with so
many people, and that's amazing. And I do hope that
we get some more serious Star Wars and also want
some more goofy star Wars. Bring me that, and I
think we're gonna get. As Chris Ryan says, gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme. Well,

(46:26):
that's going to wrap it up for our final episode
of Road to Rebellion the and Or After show. Thank
you so much for joining us on this journey as
we've broken down and Or season two. We have had
so much fun sharing it with you.

Speaker 4 (46:40):
We really have, and we want to make sure that
you keep up with everything we've got going on, So
please make sure you're subscribed here to the Around the
Galaxy podcast wherever you get podcasts, because the content is
not going to stop just.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
With Roads Rebellion.

Speaker 4 (46:52):
We do special interviews guests, as well as dropping weekly
audio replays of our Thursday night live stream which is
atg Live.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
And or see what I did there you can join this.
I know it was very bad. I apologize it. I
had to wait seven episodes to throw that in. You
can join us live every Thursday night on our YouTube
channel at YouTube dot com slash at the SSW network
for all the Star Wars news of the week, celebrity interviews,
and your calls and chats.

Speaker 4 (47:23):
And if you like what we do, we would love
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Patreon dot com slash the SSW network become a Patreon
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Speaker 3 (47:43):
I agree, And of course, if you like today's show,
leave us a five star review, share it with your
Star Wars friends and tell us what you thought of
and or or any Star Wars that you've been enjoying.
You can find us on all the socials at the
SSW network, and remember you can all always leave us
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up on other around the Galaxy episodes, or atg Live

(48:06):
call us at five oh four three two one one
five oh one. That's five oh four three two one
fifteen oh one. We absolutely want to hear from you.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
That's it for this week.

Speaker 4 (48:17):
Thank you so much for hanging out with us, and
until next time, May the Force be with you.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
And this has been Road to Rebellion. Road to Rebellion
is copyright twenty twenty five Pete in the Seat Studios.
For more information on this show and other shows in
the SSW Network, please head over to THESSW network dot com.
Audio Clips our copyright twenty twenty five for Lucasfilm, Yay

(48:54):
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