The Questions Behind the Myth: Pete Fletzer Interviewed on His New Star Wars Book

In this very special episode of Around the Galaxy, the roles are reversed. Host Pete Fletzer hands the microphone to someone who has been there since the very beginning of his Star Wars journey — his father. As one of the people Pete dedicated his new book Who Owns the Myth? to, he steps into the host seat to interview Pete about the project that has reshaped his understanding of fandom, myth, and legacy.

Together, they dive into why the book was written, the central question it asks about who truly “owns” a story as culturally massive as Star Wars, and how five decades of fandom—from toys to timelines—shaped the book’s point of view. Pete shares personal anecdotes from his own lifelong relationship with the saga, including moments that inspired entire chapters.

They also explore whether the book resonates even for readers who aren’t deep into Star Wars lore. If you’ve ever wondered how modern fandom evolves, how myths are formed, or what inspires someone to write a book about the soul of a galaxy far, far away, this heartfelt father-son conversation is a must-listen. 

📘 Get the book: https://WhoOwnsTheMyth.com
📚 Also available on Amazon (Kindle & hardcover)
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
But they're still Star Wars fans, and we don't get
hung up on what they don't like. We get more
hung up on and pulled into. You know, I saw
it with my dad. It's been important to me my
whole life. Oh look, I have this collectible and I
never go anywhere without my whatever. And there's always that
Star Wars essence that keep people together.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
You understand, galleys.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Well, welcome to Around the Galaxy, the Star Wars fan
talk show. I am one of your hosts, Pete Fletzer.
Normally it's a there's more than one host. Normally it's
me and my good friend Nick Milky. But tonight we're
doing something just a little bit different. For this episode
of Around the Galaxy. I'm going to be interviewed by
some very special because I'm not sure if if you're
if you've heard or not if I haven't said it enough.

(01:05):
I had a new book that came out this past
week on November eleventh. It hit on Amazon and hit
on Kindle, and it's available in hardcover and we'll be
paperback on Amazon, but you get paperback now on the
Hunsthmith dot com website. Look at that, I'm already plugging,
But the book came out last weekn is called Who
Owns the Myth And it's a it's a it's part memoir,

(01:28):
part academic study, part mythic study, but really it's kind
of a love letter to and a some insight into
the fandom and why we care so much about Star
Wars and why what it is that drives that the mythology,
the fandom and the personal place that Star Wars tends
to hold in all of our hearts. And it was

(01:49):
a real sort of labor of love for me. And
I'm really excited that the book finally hit and it's
finally available, and I hope if you haven't picked up
a copy, I hope you get an opportunity to do
so you can check it out. And I'm just excited
to talk to you about it tonight because I will
be the guest, and as the guest, I will be
interviewed not by Nick, but by the gentleman that I

(02:10):
dedicated the book to along with my son, and that
would be my father, and so he will be joining
us in just a minute. He was also one of
the first people to take a look at the book.
He provided me many notes and conversation and help me
kind of think about things differently. And he's also been
a friend of the show, and he's been on the
show multiple times before, and I know from a lot
of people you love getting his insight and his perspective,

(02:32):
So I'm excited to bring that to you from him.
And also really important to note, I have no idea
what he's gonna ask me or talk to me about,
so this could go anywhere at this point. So if
you're hanging out with us, either live watching us record
this tonight on a Sunday evening, or you're picking this
up on the podcast, thank you so much for joining us.
Make sure to check out all the stuff about around

(02:54):
the Galaxy on the SSW network dot com. You can
get links to everything from the book to merch to
our Patreon program, to older episodes, and check out other
people we've had an opportunity to talk to. But before
I keep rambling too much, I'm going to take a
little bit of a break, and when we come back,
it's going to be myself and my father talking about

(03:15):
my brand new book called Who Owns the Myth. So
we'll be right back in just a minute with more
a wrap the dads. Well, welcome back to Around the Galaxy.
Thank you so much for joining us, and I'm joined

(03:35):
by my dad, Randy, Dad, thank you for doing this.
You know, it's kind of funny. I think a lot
of people when they tell their Star Wars story, it
always seems to involve family and involve you know, the
story is often and my dad took me, my mom
took me, and I went with my brother. I took
my uncle, my cousin. So it's always very much family

(03:56):
and I try to pick that up in the book.
And so I'm really excited to have you taking the
lead and doing the leading a conversation about the book
with me tonight. This is a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Well, it's a pleasure to be here and I really
feel honored that you asked me to join you tonight
at the lunch of your book. Congratulations. By the way,
having read it several times, it's a great.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Book that I have that it's out and we're not
talking about no, I'm getting it ready now.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Well, I'm saying this very objectively. It's a book that
the casual Star Wars fan, which I consider myself to be,
can read it and enjoy it and associate with it,
and some of the anecdotes that you include in the book,
I can understand several of my friends looking at them

(04:49):
and saying, hey, wait, that happened to me too, or
something very close to it happened to me too. And
I think that's where that's where the book will have
a universal appeal, so to speak.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah, yeah, no, I was actually I was on another
podcast during the week of the launch, and one of
the things that they said was, you know, the thing
that I enjoyed the most was the personal stories. And
to me, like, that's the thing this book will. I
will be happy and proud of this book if if
one person reads something and goes, yeah, that was me
and brings back a memory that maybe they didn't have,

(05:25):
they hadn't thought about in a while. So yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
I can see that happening a lot. There are, in fact,
there are seven I counted I prepared for the show.
There are seven interludes as you call them, yep, yep,
and they are the personal stories. And the book seems
to as you said, the book is divided into and

(05:52):
not really divided. It's blended into three different sections. It's
blended into the history of the frindranchise, the fandom reaction
to therint to the events that happened during the franchise,
and then there are the personal observations, yeah, anecdotes.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah, but they are sort of broken up intersections as
a result, right. I think the first part, and it's
kind of even reflected in some of the cover art,
is it's about the creation of the myth and the
impact of it. And then, you know, one of the
questions that I had in mind as I was sort
of developing this book was something that I hadn't really

(06:36):
thought of before until I started putting it together, and
it became kind of an important sort of focal point
of the story that ends up in here is this
concept of you know, what happens when the creator of
a myth walks away from the story and it goes
into the hands of the fans and the community that

(06:56):
loves it, and then he comes back. And that's really
what jord. So that second part is that reaction to that,
and look, you know, of course also the sale to
Disney and the corporateification, corporification, corporate, I don't know, whatever
that would be of the myth write the story. And
then that third part really is about Okay, so what's

(07:18):
the future look like? And and will the myth continue
to grow?

Speaker 2 (07:22):
So?

Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, but you're right, it is also it does sort
of blend in that in that way, and I think
that's one of the interesting things that I learned about
in this situation was that even the story of the
Star Wars fandom sort of follows some of the mythical
tropes and beats. So it was interesting to me.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Well, the first question I wanted to ask you had
to do with the title of the book, who owns
the myth?

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (07:46):
And with the recent rejection of the script for Ben Solo, Yeah,
wouldn't that mean that Bob Bob Iger owns the Bent?

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Well, he owns the IP, that's for sure. And thanks
for starting right off with the Ben Solo stuff to
really get people in that right mince No, I agree,
And it's a very interesting concept and it's an interesting thing.
But I would say that, you know, the question being,
does that mean that Iger owns Smith? And I think
that that's one of the underlying questions of the entire

(08:21):
book is the fact that, like, so, once it's out there,
is it bigger than the people who own the IP
or the people that own the copyright. And I mean
if you go back to even you know, one of
the things that when I came back to the fandom
in the nineties and I built the Echo based website,
it was sort of the beginning of fan films. I

(08:43):
remember the Troops video fan film. I remember somebody sent
it to me, which was, you know, a takeoff on
the Cops TV show, and it's really hilarious. If you
haven't seen it, I heard you to go find the
video called Troops. It's still out there on YouTube. Hilarious.
But it was an interesting time because Luca Film was
also recognizing that fans were making their own films, and

(09:06):
it was because they even for a while there they
had I don't know how many of you remember this,
but they had the Star Wars Fan Film Awards. They
did that for a couple of years, which was really
interesting and really cool. But to address your question directly, yeah,
I mean he owns the ip. But I think the
reaction from a lot of people, and yes, there's certain

(09:28):
people that love the sequels and want to see more
of those characters. That's a percentage of the fandom and
a percentage that doesn't care. And I think that that's
an interesting observation in itself. But the people that hear
about it and want it, I think they own the
myth almost as much, if not more, from a philosophical
perspective than bob Iger and the mouse, because it's the

(09:52):
reaction to hearing that there's more Ben Solo's story that
may be out there that was ready to come out
that Bob Iger said no. I mean that's almost the
reaction is similar to when the special Editions came out
and George made some changes. So I think it's I
think it's an illustration of what happens when a corporate

(10:14):
entity owns the myth and the response from the fans.
So I didn't really answer your question in that and directly,
but I do think that I think it to me
at reinforced that the myth is owned by the fandom
more so than the lawyers and the corporate IP people
at Disney. Hey, this is Pete Fletzer. If you're enjoying

(10:35):
this conversation and want to explore the ideas a little deeper,
my new book, Who Owns the Myth is out now.
You can grab a signed copy and exclusive bundles at
Who Owns the myth dot com and if you use
the code myth pod m yt hpod, you're gonna save
twenty five percent on the order when you check out.
And of course it's also available on Amazon and kindle

(10:56):
and hard copy. Thank you so much for supporting the
Myth and the Orse be with you.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
I think it's an interesting relationship between the ownership of
the what did you call it, the IP?

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, the intellectual property yep, yep, and.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
The intellectual property. If the ownership, the ownership and the
fandom that really supports the ownership financially because if the
owners don't do right by the fans, eventually, sooner or later,

(11:33):
that ownership will have no value, right, it can go
right down to zero. So in that respect, the fandom
does have a certain amount of control, right, wouldn't you say?

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah? I would, And I would also say that at
this point there's a very interesting sort of dichotomy because
the fandom, you know, in the prequel the sequels frequels
came out, there was a split in the fandom, and
when the sequels came out, there was an even larger
split in the fandom. And so the question now is

(12:10):
what's financially positive for Disney to focus on right with
the sort of response to the sequels right, which has
been in a way kind of it's been the biggest
noise in social media, and probably not the least reason
being that the fact that this is the generation of

(12:31):
social media that now is taking over the myth. But
that's been where the biggest fight has been. But I
always go back to the first line of the Force Awakens,
when Max von Seido Lauras Santeka says, this will begin
to set things right. And to me, that felt like
it was Disney saying, we heard you didn't like the prequels.

(12:52):
We heard what you've been saying, but we are going
to bring back the story you want. And oddly enough
that worked for a percentage of the audience in it,
A percentage the audience didn't love it. So I guess,
you know, that's a great question because the challenge is
how much do you bend to what a portion of

(13:13):
the fandom wants and how do you know which is right?
And I think that's a bigger question because I don't
know if I mean, you'll look at where the noise
is in social media and on YouTube and whatnot, and
you could say there's a lot of anti Disney noise,
but there's also a lot of people that absolutely love
that the Disney era, myself being one, because I look

(13:36):
at it as an expansion of where we are in
the myth. But where is the money? And I think,
as I'm saying this out loud, I think the answer
is coming out in May of twenty twenty six with
the Mandalorian and Grogu movie. And to me, that is
Disney taking the safest possible route to go back into
movie theaters. Right. I don't know anybody who doesn't love

(13:59):
The Mandalorian who's watched it. Right. They may not love
Season three, but that's a whole other conversation, But Mandalorian
and Grogu is the safest bet. I always say, you
can't throw a cat in a Walmart without hitting a
Grogu T shirt. They're still out there. So I think
by throwing Mando and Grogo back in the theater, it
almost feels too safe to me, but it is. It

(14:21):
addresses your question directly, and that's where they're where they're going, right,
So it does.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
On another note, just to change the subject a little bit,
when I was reading the book, right, I noticed that
the the introduction was done by or the forward was
done by Scott Churnoff. Why did you ask Scott Chernoff
to do it? Let's go offense to Scott.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Right, No, Scott's Scott's actually become you know, it's funny
we have this sort of uh you know, Nick Nick's
wife actually spawned the phrase weird space friends, which is
sort of the Star Wars friend that we've made right,
people who we've known along the way. And Scott actually
as much as Steve Sandsweet gave me my entry into

(15:08):
Star Wars Galaxy magazine, uh, Steve introduced me to to Scott,
and Scott gave me some opportunity with Star Wars Insider,
So that felt like a nice payback payoff. But in
addition to that, Scott has been a great friend of
the around the Galaxy show. He's been on a number
of times, and he's just you know, he was the

(15:30):
he was the editor of Star Wars Insider when I
was a part of it, and he so there was
that sort of direct connection. But he's also just very insightful,
a very funny guy. He's he's a comedy writer. He's uh,
you know, he does some of the voices on BoJack
Horseman or writing on BoJack Horseman. He's a voice on

(15:52):
Rick and Morty, and every time he's been on Around
the Galaxy, it has he has raised question. I mean,
it's funny. I went back and of course listened to
some of my interviews with him, as you know, we
were having the conversation, and there were plenty of times
where I found myself saying I didn't think of it
that way, and in typical Scott turnoff fashion, he would say, well,
now you will. And so it was. He just has

(16:16):
a really unique insight to Star Wars, and he and
I are on a very we came to realize that
we're on a very similar page as far as we
both kind of recognize that the reason Star Wars fans
are the way they are is because we love it.
And we also agree that there's no room for the
toxicity in Star Wars fandom or football fandom, or you know,

(16:36):
whatever you're a fan of. Leave the the isms out,
leave the politics out, and let's talk about the story.
And so he and I, you know, we're absolutely on
the same page on that, and I was I was
really very honored that he said he would he would
go and do it for me? So, and I think
it's a great forward and I think it sets up
the book really really well.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Now here's here's the question I probably should have asked. First,
Where did the idea for this book come from? I
remember getting a text from you saying, Dad, would you
look through this book for me? I wrote it and
I'm about two thirds of the way through. Yeah, and
I didn't even know you were writing one. So where

(17:17):
did the idea come from? And what caused you to
start it?

Speaker 1 (17:24):
What caused me to start? Well, why would you do this?

Speaker 2 (17:29):
I've got an idea for about a half dozen books
and them started. So props to you for that.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Well, I've always wanted to well, I mean, you know,
just because you know, you got me kind of started
writing with the with the amazing science fiction and heartor
trivia game writing columns for your newsletter that went out
for that and so from that point on, I felt
like and I think actually around that time too, I
was a big Stephen King fan, and so in my
head I wanted to write a Stephen King style book,

(17:57):
and every time I started it, I got about I
don't know fifty pages and it was like, this is awful,
and so I would just stop it. But I always
kind of knew or felt like I wanted to write
a book. I felt like I had a book in me,
I didn't know what it was. And then through the
podcast I started to realize, Okay, maybe there's something here
from the podcast that I could turn into a book.

(18:20):
And before I even started this, so I started this
about a year and a half a year ago, but
before I started that, I actually started writing a book
about some of the stories that I heard from my guests.
Why don't I take this great story that I heard
about where you know from you know, author here and

(18:42):
fan there and put it in And then I started
writing it. I started thinking, you know what, this isn't
my story to tell. That's their story to tell. And
it was great to have them tell it on my podcast,
but it didn't feel like that was you know, that's
their personal story. And the second thing, quite honestly, as
I said at the beginning of this show, it was
kind of the same story over and over. Everybody you
know came into Star Wars in a very similar way,

(19:06):
whether they and there was always a familial kind of connection.
So but I like that part of it. But then,
you know, I've done a bunch of sort of online
essays and video essays and things like that, and I
started sort of writing this and it almost started out
a sort of a collection of essays. And that's why

(19:27):
I think the style of the book is very much
like you're reading or hearing a podcast. It's that kind
of because that's just the way I write, and that's
kind of the way I've become accustomed to writing. And
I started really digging into some of the concepts of
what I found that I was in a unique position
to do was the fact that I have been a

(19:47):
fan on the front lines literally from when I was
seven years old to today, and seeing the way fandom
has changed, and even you know, some of my best friends, like, like,
you know, Mike, my best friend since I was third grade,
he's not a big fan of the sequels, and that's okay,
because I still know that Star Wars is still critically
important to him. I remember talking to my buddy Jay

(20:10):
and he was like, I really still don't like the prequels.
I can't get over the prequels. And I was like, well,
that's okay. He's like, but you don't understand how important
Star Wars is to me. I still have all my
Star Wars toys from when I was a kid, and
so when I started thinking about that, I was trying
to figure out why that is and tying it to
some of the sort of ugliness and sort of the

(20:32):
debates and the headbutting that I've seen online recently and
tried to connect where that is. And it all came
back to Joseph Campbell and the thing that when I
heard Joseph Campbell talking about why myths matter to us
because it's something that's deeper than we can we even
really fathom and understand. There's this sort of built in

(20:54):
story that we've heard for as long as humanity has
been around. That's what really drove, or more importantly to
the reason, the sort of essence of this book is
that's what I wanted to dig into and I wanted
to see. I knew it worked for the Luke Skywalker
store in a New Hope, and I knew it worked
for the original trilogy. And then I started to wonder,
is that what's still working on people today? And it

(21:16):
was worth just sort of proposing it as a question.
And it's funny the a friend of mine camp. He's
a guy online who I've become friendly with. He ordered
a book and I signed it, and I signed it
to him as you own the myth, and so he
wrote me back, he said, well, you should have put
a spoiler alert on there, because now I know I
don't need to read the book. But cam Ray is

(21:40):
his name. He's a funny guy. I really do believe
that the myth is owned by everybody who's who's ever
been affected by it and who's seen it and carried
it with them and their their heads and their hearts.
And that can be a corporate vice president of marketing
at Disney. I mean that's you know, they may be
affected by it, they own the myth as much as

(22:03):
as I do. Or Jack my son, who is your grandson,
who is just like his Star Wars is completely different
than my Star Wars, but we're both in the same world.
And I think that that's that's kind of cool. So
who owns the myth is it's it's it's such a
broad question and honestly, such a vague answer. And I
think that's the objective of the books, is that have

(22:24):
somebody come out come out of it and go oh, okay, Yeah,
I haven't thought of that way, or maybe I did
think of it that way. I'm glad to see somebody
else thinks of it the same.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
The Internet, yes, major major influence in probably perpetuating the
enthusiasm of Star Wars fans, wouldn't you say?

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yes? Yeah, for sure, I think yeah. And I think
it's also responsible for some of the biggest riffs in
the fandom as well.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
How different do you think Star Wars fandom would be
if the Internet had waited twenty years to come along.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Wow, it's a very interesting question, I think, Well, I
think the difference would be is I don't think there
would be the backlash that we see against Disney. I
think because think about it, if you go back twenty
years too, when the prequels came out, Yeah, the Internet
was burgeoning, and there were certainly conversations happening, but there
weren't There weren't tribes forming yet like there are now.

(23:38):
But I think I think the response to everything would
whether it's Disney, whether it's a specific movie, a specific
plot point, something that's changed, something in the Lord that's
been modified. Perhaps I think the difference would be that
you'd have to have those conversations in person, right, Like
I remember, I remember remember people talking about ewoks, right

(24:04):
and just like that's you know, this is Jorge making
it for kids to look for something to sell. And
as a kid, it didn't bother me if that happened.
You know, back in if the Internet existed in nineteen
eighty three, people would said George has lost his way
and it would have been a whole faction of people
who would have bought into that concept, because I think
the problem with the Internet today is that there's money

(24:24):
to be made in being negative and finding problems with things,
and so something as simple as the Ewoks would have
become a reason why Star Wars is a failure now, right,
And it would have it would have become a talking point,
and it would have been a side that you're on,
either your pro Ewok or your pro Star Wars or
you know whatever. It would be like these big, big,

(24:45):
giant conversations that are similar to today. I think if
the Internet wasn't around during the sequel trilogy, I think
it might have been more readily accepted as part of
the bigger Star Wars story because it would be more
difficult to you know, I've having worked in the Internet

(25:08):
and for most of my adult life in one form
or another, I always hoped and prayed that the Internet
would help make people brighter, it would help make people
look for more information instead of what happened is, whether
it's politics or sports or Star Wars, it's helped people

(25:29):
just find people who feed whatever they want to hear.
And so if I don't like, if I didn't like
the sequels, it's so easy for me to find somebody
who can tell me why I'm right. And it's the
same honestly for people who love the stuff, and there's
Star Wars. Shows like The Accolade is a great example
of a show that divided the fandom even before it

(25:51):
came out, that people were deliberately looking for a reason
to blow it up and dislike it so they could
drive clicks and make money on their YouTube channels. But
if that was if you did that without the Internet,
that would have to happen in person. And yeah, I
mean us nerds. We don't mind having a good heated
argument in person. But I'm also not going to call

(26:12):
you names in person. I'm going to have a conversation
and hopefully we'll walk away with agree to disagree, and
nobody agrees to disagree online, and I think that's the
biggest problem. So right.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
When when I was thinking of questions to ask, I
was trying to think of things that there are a
lot of questions I knew that the answers to, but
there were a few questions that I don't know the
answers to. And one of them is I always considered

(26:47):
the time from say about nineteen eighty four two, when
the say nineteen ninety seven yep, especially the dark ages
of Star Wars. Yeah, what were you doing as a
huge Star Wars fan about to be a Star Wars insider?

(27:10):
What were you doing during those times?

Speaker 1 (27:12):
It's funny because I used to think, and I I
it's how It's funny how you kind of your own
personal story kind of changes until you really start to
think about it. I thought that I had kind of
walked away during the dark times, that I wasn't as
actively involved. But then I was I've been talking to

(27:33):
people and as I'm thinking about this book, and as
I was writing pieces of this book, I realized that
I read a lot of those Star Wars books. And
it's funny. Chris Ryan's would be laughing at me right now,
because I don't read any of the new ones, but
I read, you know, Heir to the Empire, the thron Trilogy,
and a lot of the a lot of the books
that had come out, and I didn't love them, to

(27:53):
be honest with you. They felt more science fiction to
me than science fantasy. It felt like it wasn't exactly
written in the Star Wars style. But I was still
connected there. I was still actively involved in collecting, not
as much, but when things came out, I was there,
and I was still always as a Star Wars fan.

(28:14):
And you know, I think about, you know, one of
the the you know, one of my first real jobs.
I remember even like having Star Wars toys on my
desk and people like, oh, yeah, my son loves Star Trek,
and I'm like, well, this isn't Star Trek. But I'm
not going to nerd out on you right here right now.
But in hindsight, and this was one of the things
that made me feel like, yeah, this is there's a

(28:36):
story that I can tell here is that. Yeah, I
I during the dark times as we all call them,
A lot of us call it that, there was still
a lot going on and it was just in different ways.
It wasn't I think. I think it was almost like
a weird sort of Keeper of the Flame kind of

(28:56):
fandom in that time, right, there was there was this
Star Wars role playing game from West End Games. There
was the comic book series for uh for for the
the Air, to the Empire, the Dark Empire, Sorry uh stories,
And let me ask.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
You who did who did you play the role playing
games with?

Speaker 1 (29:17):
That was the weird thing. I didn't play them with
anybody but I and one of the But the funny
thing is, and this is actually I've heard I've been
doing research and and and preparing for this book, realizing
that while it wasn't a super popular role playing game,
because West End Games literally kind of went out of
business overnight one one day, there was a lot a

(29:41):
lot of the things that surrounded the West End Games
UH game and the supporting materials were becoming sort of
Star Wars lore. It was writing the lore. In fact,
there were there were times where Lucasfilm would tell writers, Hey,
there's this really interesting planet in the West End Games

(30:04):
book whatever, and they and it was starting to become
where the lore was so I think, not just myself
not playing it a lot, if at all, but there
were so many. There was the Star Wars Adventure Journal,
which came out with Western Games, which was a quarterly
book of short stories that also came with information about
you know, the ship that was mentioned there, if you
want to use it in your game, this character, if

(30:25):
you want to use it in your game, here's the
stats and things need to know and funny story I
was writing. I don't know if you remember, I was
writing a story for west End Games, the Star Wars
Adventure Journal, and I was working with their editors, and
I had gotten the final edit back and literally west
End Games went out of business before my story went out,

(30:46):
so I would have been in the next Stars event,
which means that I probably would have had something that
might have been canon having been written. But it just
was bad timing. But to answer your question, I think
you know what I was doing was I was sort
of quietly keeping up with it. I think the the
Star Wars Pride, if you will wasn't wasn't as prominent

(31:07):
at that time because we didn't know if it was
ever coming back. It was more of a personal memory
than a pop culture presence that it is now.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
And yet the myth was established. Whether you come back
and continue, it was already there and it was going
to be there.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Right, Yeah, very much so. And I and I and
I think that's the thing about the books at that time,
and I think that's why people reacted the way they
did when Disney decided that those stories were no longer
considered canon to the ongoing Star Wars story. There were
so many, so many stories out there. And again, you know,
one of the things that I brought up I bring

(31:50):
up in the book is people were also because of
things like West End Games, the role playing game. We're
just being a fan. We're creating the stories in their
own heads about what we did and see. Because remember
at that time, it was just three movies. I remember
vividly you and I sort of trying to figure out
what we thought the Clone Wars was. I mean, that
was brilliant of George to just put it out there

(32:10):
as part of the first movie and a bit of history,
you know, that we didn't know about. And I always say,
if they had done Star Wars in twenty twenty, Luke
Skywalker would have said, no, my father didn't fight in
the Clone Wars. Then Nobi Wan Kenobe would have told
him the story and it would have been a ten
minute flashback of you know, the Clone Wars, and that

(32:33):
mystery wouldn't have existed. But I think because the mystery existed.
And also I think the other big thing that people
often forget about or not enough they forget about it
but don't give enough credit to is the Star Wars toys.
We were making up our own stories. We had our
own backstory to walverrus Man before he was called Ponda Baba.
We had our own stories about where Chewbacca came from.

(32:56):
We had our own stories because we were making them
up as kids. And I remember, you know them with
Mike and Matt in the neighborhood about well, no, the
X Wing probably came from blah blah blah or wherever,
because that information wasn't there. And I honestly am still
not sure, and I think this is why I don't
necessarily read a lot of the comic books. I'm still
not sure if having those stories is a good thing

(33:18):
or not. Right. I mean, you can get to there's
you know, I have the Star Wars and encyclopedias and
things out there. I can get the backstory on just
about anybody who's ever been on screen in Star Wars.
I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing, Like
leave that stuff open. And that's why I think Disney
is able to create stories today, because I think it's
sort of filling out the top layer of the story

(33:40):
versus the core of the story. Hey, this is Pete Fletzer.
If what you're hearing today is resonating with you, I'd
love for you to check out my new book, Who
Owns the Myth. Head over to who owns the Myth
dot com for signed editions and special bundles and use
the code myth pod m yt hpod for twenty five

(34:01):
percent off your order, or if it's easier, feel free
to pick it up in the kindle or hard copy
edition right over on Amazon. I hope you'll join me
on this mythic journey. Now, let me ask you a
question as somebody who's not a deep nerd like myself,
like Nick, like Chris, like Kelsey or enormy as you
enormy as we call them, Yes, how did this book

(34:22):
strike you? Do you feel like you knew like did
you feel like you had to know more than you
did to be able to the end of the book,
or do you feel like it spoke to a broad
enough general audience.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Oh no, Well, first of all, let's eliminate all the interludes,
because yeah, I was personally involved in just about all
of them, so right, Yeah, and I loved everyone because
it's all about me.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yes, this is true. It's true. That's that's why I
dedicated the book to you, so you just know this
is all about There's no question, right.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
I I thought, as a normy it was tough for
me to put the book down. Excluding the interludes. I loved.
It was like a thumbnail history of the Star Wars franchise,
and along with the thumbnail history, how it affected the

(35:21):
fans of the franchise and why the fans reacted as
they did. And the thing that I learned about it
about the fan reaction was the fact that it depended
on the age of the fan, the generation of the
fan as to where they jumped into the Star Wars saga,

(35:47):
and in most cases, the point at which they jumped
into the saga was what meant the most to them. Yes,
because of that, it kept each each era of Star
Wars alive because of each generation that jumped in at

(36:11):
different points. I think from a personal point of view,
I knew nothing and still know nothing about the Clone Wars, right,
so it means nothing to me. However, my grandson knows
all about the Clone Wars and that's his I don't

(36:35):
know if it's his jumping end point, because I know
he saw the original movies on television when he was very,
very young, but the Clone Wars seemed to mean quite
a bit to him. Yeah, how am I doing?

Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Am I right about it? No?

Speaker 1 (36:53):
I think, yeah, you're underset, right, And actually it's good
to hear that, because I think that was one thing
that was super conscious about as I was right the
book was I didn't want it to be. You know,
one of the things I say all the time on
ATG Live is like I hate things that you need
to have done homework for. Like so, for example, when
when people are people one of the things in the
Rise of Skywalker, they talk about the whole I don't know,

(37:16):
you probably saw the movie once. If have you seen
the Rise Skywalker? The last one? Okay, yep? To me
it was okay. To me, it was infinitely forgettable as
as a film. And I don't mean that and I know.
But the thing is, I know a lot of people
love it, and that's great. But one of the things
that I one of my complaints about it is like
I don't know the whole searching for the knife and

(37:38):
the connection to Luke and Lando and that whole thing
and Ochi of bestun who they mentioned as a character
who apparently was super important, but we don't know anything about.
People tell me that Adam Christopher wrote his book, which
is which makes all that connection, which is great, but
I didn't read that book, so to me, that connection

(37:58):
still doesn't exist. And so one of the.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Things that you'll find this interesting. That may be the
only movie that I enjoyed more than you There you
go cool. That's and I'll tell you why. Yeah, I
loved the ending. I love the way they ended. Awesome, predictable,
but I still enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
And that's so That's one of the funny things. I
remember when I went to go see I saw that
movie with Joe and Mike and Dad. It was zig
but it might have been zig. But anyways, my friend
group that you got, you know, with the high school
with him and everything. I remember when I walked out

(38:37):
of it, the first time I saw it, I was disappointed.
When they walked out, they were like, that was the
best of the sequels. And to me, I think the
reason is it's because you don't have to be a
deep Star Wars neard. You don't question how the Emperor
came back. You just know him as the as the
Thanos of the Star Wars saga. And the bad guy

(38:58):
is back, and holy cow, they got to take him out.
And there's a lot of action and there's and Luke
Skywalker was back and he was like the cool forced
ghosts and he did his Obi wan kenobi like it
hit all those buttons. And for me, I felt like
it was there was such opportunity in it that they missed.
But that's probably because of where I sit as a fan.

(39:20):
And so it's interesting to hear that you you loved it,
and uh and that or that is your favorite one
of the sequels probably.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Or is it it is and it's not. I enjoyed it.
I actually I loved I loved Star Wars. I loved
Empire Strikes Back, right, I liked Return of the Jedi
very very very much.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
Right, But it's interesting because that and that's again that's
where this corporate ownership comes in if they can get
what I have to remind my deep fan friends of
is we're on the edges of the Bell curve. Right.
We make up let's say ten percent of the fandom,

(40:03):
maybe maybe fifteen percent, maybe even let's go as far
as a quarter, but you still have seventy five to
ninety percent of the fandom that goes to Disney World,
that buys the t shirts, that subscribe to Disney, plus
that need to buy the movie tickets, that they need
to appease and reach, which again is why I'm firmly

(40:23):
convinced that the Mandoin Grogu movie is why they went
that way, because they know that even people who've never
watched the show know who Grogu is, and they know
who the Mandalorian is, or at least know enough about
them to want to go see that movie. And so
where I always come down on that though, is I'm
happy they're doing it because if they can keep the
myth alive, if Disney can keep it going, if they

(40:46):
can introduce Jack to it and then the kids who
are younger than Jack and keep them going, that we're
gonna have Star Wars for the next fifty years if
they can keep that connector you say it all the time,
if it doesn't appeal to a twelve years and like
it or not. That's what George said, and that's why
myths work, because they speak it simply enough to understand it.

(41:07):
That's what will keep Star Wars alive. That'll keep the
myth alive. And so I'm all for a I hope
Starfighter when that comes out. I hope that's just a
fun movie with Ryan Gosling and Mia Goth. I hope
it's just a fun movie that takes place in the
Star Wars universe that pulls people back in. And if
a mythology builds off of that, that's great too. But

(41:29):
keep making movies for that seventy five percent, Keep making
shows for that seventy five percent, and us nerds will
find what we need to find in that. But just
keep making that.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Getting back to the book, Yeah, there's a story. One
of the interludes in the story is and has always
been my favorite, the story that I tell my friends
when I told my friends about my son, the Star
Wars insider, pan whatever. It's the story of your interview

(42:10):
with Ben Bert. Yeah, tell that story now, I love
hearing you tell it.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yeah, So this this will be slightly expanded from us
in the book because I wanted to keep it short.
So one of the things at the time I was
I had the first Star Wars website. I'm pretty convinced
it was the first one, if not the first one
of the first ones. And there was there was this

(42:38):
movie that Ben Bert was creating an Imax with a
bunch of other people at Lucasfilm called Special Effects, and
one of the cool things about it was that it
was ben Bert was recreating the opening shot of a
New Hope in Imax, which just to see that on
an Imax screen was incredible. And I guess we're going
to get to see it again in twenty seven when

(42:59):
they re released the fiftieth anniversary. It's going to be
an Imax, which is cool. But so it was going
to premiere at the Liberty Science Center in New Jersey,
and since I had one of the rare Star Wars websites,
Liberty Science Center reached out to me and said, hey,
would you mind promoting this movie that's going to premiere

(43:23):
and be exclusive to to our Imax theater And I said, yeah,
but I'll make you a deal. I want to go
to the premiere. And because I knew being the Star
Wars nerd that I was that it was like the
big premiere is going to be there and they were
going to have the party and all that stuff. And
they said, okay, but what we need from you is

(43:45):
to run some sort of promotion on the site. I said,
what if I created a coupon for like two dollars
off your ticket to the Imax movie. They said, yeah,
how old were you? How old was I at the time.
I was like twenty six, I think twenty five, twenty
six years old, uh, working in digital marketing, And so
people had to print off this coupon on their dot

(44:06):
Matrix printer right and it was there on the site
and so they sent me my ticket. At that time,
also I was being asked so this is also tied
to the Steve Sandsweet story, and that I was also
being asked from fans all over where Steve Sandswitet was
going to be doing his special edition presentation around the
country as you recalled, because you were, you were taking

(44:28):
your game to the same conventions that Steve was at.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
You were the way I think I had already seen it.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Yeah, you probably did, because you were going to more
conventions than I was.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
You were selling, we were selling the game at the most.
They were mostly Star Wars Star Trek convention. Yeah, she
had the ironic thing.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Of that, right. So people were reaching out to me
saying where' Steve going to be? And I had no
idea because I wasn't an official site. So I told
I decided I was going to call Lucasfilm and and
I was going to, uh just see if I could
get a kind of Steve's schedule so I could put
it up on the website. And so I called Lucasfilm
as you do. And you know, back in nineteen ninety five,

(45:09):
ninety six, they still had a receptionist that picked up
the phone. And she picked it up and I said, Hi,
I have a website and I would love to get
Steve Sandsweet's itinerary which cities isn't going to be in
to present his special edition presentation? And he said, They said, okay,
hang on a second. They put me on hold, and

(45:31):
I'm sitting there and I still can see it. I
was literally like laying on the floor with the phone,
right and just like do it. I don't know. I
was twenty five, I don't know, and I'm looking across
the room and on my bookshelf is like four or
five Steve sand Sweet books. I was a fan of
everything he'd written. I was big into collectibles at the time,
and I expected, though, they were going to be like, Okay,

(45:52):
well we'll send it to you, what a email address
or whatever they put me through, And on the other line,
I hear Steve Sandsweet speaking and I was floored. I
mean literally, I guess right, And I was shocked that
I was speaking to Steve who you know. You recall
we also saw him like regularly on QBC doing his
Star Wars pitches there, and I just we just started

(46:17):
talking and he was interested in the website because Lucasfilm
didn't have a website yet, there was no Star Wars
dot com, and I was interested in where he was
going to be, and the conversation kind of turned. He
was asking me about the website and I said, well,
you know, originally I wanted to just kind of use
it to promote some of my writing. And he said, oh,
you're a writer. Well that's interesting, he said, I have

(46:39):
more work at Star Wars Galaxy Magazine than I can
possibly keep up with. Would you be interested in maybe
taking on an assignment or two? And I've of course
I jumped to it and said yes. And I said,
as a matter of fact, I'm going to the premiere
of Special Effects in Jersey City in a couple of weeks.
He said, great, write me I think it was one

(47:00):
hundred and twenty five words, a very short story. Go
to that. Talk to Ben Bert if he can, and
and then write it and submit it. And so I
was like, holy callous, great, and he said, send me
your you know, of course, send me your your package.
So I sent it FedEx overnight to him. So I
go to this premiere in Jersey City at the Imax Theater,

(47:24):
and because I had credentials, I got to the after
party and Ben Bert, who's so as you know, but
a lot of people may not know. I'm like many
Star Wars fans. I was a huge fan of the
special effects and the sound design. I just was like,
that meant so much to me. And I knew all
about Ben Bert, you know. I was one of those
fans that could name half the people who were in

(47:44):
production on the Star Wars movies, and I remember and
this was great. You know, there's there's the there's always
this fear of meeting your heroes, meeting people that you
you've sort of always wanted to meet, and I've ben
was standing there, probably holding him drink in his hand,
and I walked up to him and I introduced myself,
and I was nervous as hell to even talk to

(48:06):
him for a second. And was what I noticed about
ben Bert speaking to him, and I ended up talking
to him for about fifteen twenty minutes, got a couple quotes,
and what I will never forget about ben Bert was
that he almost seemed as shy talking to me as
I was talking to him. You can tell he was

(48:26):
a special effects guy who worked behind the scenes, very
proud of his work, very very sort of intelligent about
the way he spoke about everything. But there was no ego,
there was no I'm a star, I created these things.
He was just there, and I think in a way

(48:47):
he was also kind of just he was like similar
to me, surprised I was signing autographs at this library
a couple of years later. I think he was just
happy that somebody enjoyed what he did, right, and was
genuine about it, not just like, oh, he's that guy,
let me go talk to him. I mean he just
felt it. And then a couple well, I think when

(49:10):
the when the special editions came out, that's when I
had an opportunity to interview him again for a full
feature in Star Wars Galaxy Magazine and that was really great.
And I don't know if he remembered me directly, but
he remembered the event, so that was that was great.
But yeah, meeting Ben Bert as a result of getting
an assignment from Steve sand Suite that ended up in

(49:32):
an official Lucasfilm magazine from somebody who was just a
Star Wars fan, you know, the Star Wars fan among
everybody who knew me right, that was me. I was
the Star Wars guy. And to suddenly now have that
place in Star Wars as small as it was, just

(49:53):
to have my name uppear in Star Wars Galaxy Magazine
that first time was was amazing. And meeting and that
was done through meeting Ben Bird. It wasn't just like
an opinion piece or something. It was through meeting Ben
Bird and going to a movie premiere was just fantastic,
unbelievable so.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
I guess technically speaking, that telephone call with you lying
on your back on the floor, yeah, you were actually
making the crossover from Star Wars fan the Star Wars
inside or at that time, and didn't realize you.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
Didn't even realize that, right. Yeah, you know it's funny
when you I think, even today, when you do podcasts
and there's thousands of Star Wars podcasts, you're always you know,
you always have an opinion. You're a Star Wars person,
and I think i'm still to this day, and Nick
would probably say the same thing. In fact, I know
you would. We're just surprised at not only the people

(50:45):
that we know that we're friends with, like the fans,
the people who are watching this right now, the people
who don't miss an episode, the people who DM us
and have become what I would call really friends of
the show and what I would consider a friend, Like
if I got to see Matt Harrington in person, I
would give the man a hug. I've never met him,
but he's a weird space friant. But when Nick and

(51:06):
I think about some of the people that are also
Star Wars fans, and that's why we become friendly with them,
like the fact that we are, you know, Nick and
I can pick up the phone and call our friends
from ESPN that happened to be Star Wars fans that
then we go and see them on TV covering NASCAR
or Major League Baseball or NHL hockey. It's so strange,

(51:27):
it's so weird. And what we find is that whether
you're a Star Wars insider or not, or you're a
celebrity who's a fan, or you're you know, my neighbor
down the street who's a Star Wars, they're all the
same people when you hit that Star Wars note. And
I think that's one of the things that's important about
this book. Where that got me going about this book

(51:48):
was because I've met people who when I've got to
interview Charlie Binante from Anthrax, you know, I'm a huge anthraxer.
I'm going to see them again next year. I'm like
a huge Anthrax fan. I found out that he was
a huge Star Wars fan and made that connection, and
as I'm talking to him in that interview that I
did several years ago, we were just two Star Wars fans.

(52:11):
And as soon as I got over the hump of
oh my god, it's the drummer from one of my
favorite bands. Once we got over that we're just Star
Wars fans, when we talked to Greg Grunberg, he's been
you know, he's been such a supporter of the charity
work we've done and things. He's just a Star Wars fan.
He happens to have been in a Star Wars fan,
into Star Wars movies, is best friends with jj Abrams.

(52:31):
But when we're talking, it's just because we're Star Wars fans,
And to me, that's this amazing connection that keeps the
story alive and that those are the people who own
the myth right, those are the people who it's it's
And look, you know, we've talked to many major fans
who are even some authors who are like, yeah, I

(52:52):
still I'm still not a big fan of whatever. But
they're still Star Wars fans. And we don't get hung
up on what they don't like. We get more hung
up on and pulled into you know, I saw it
with my dad. It's been important to me my whole life.
Oh look, I have this collectible and I never go
anywhere without my whatever, and there's always that Star Wars

(53:14):
essence that keep people together. Hey, this is Pete Fltzer.
If this conversation has you thinking more about the mythology
of Star Wars, you can dive deeper in my new book,
Who Owns the Myth. Signed copies and bundles are at
who owns themth dot com and if you use promo
code Mythpod Mythpod, you're going to get twenty five percent

(53:37):
off your order at checkout. And it's also available of
course on Amazon and both kindle and hard copy wherever
you get it. I hope it becomes a part of
your story.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
Well, I think it's about time. Yes, you define what
you mean by ownership.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
It's not the it's not the people who own the
intellectual property. To me, I mean ownership of the thing
that makes you feel like it's yours. And I know
that's sort of redefined, just sort of saying what the
word owned means anyway. But there's something about this myth

(54:14):
that people feel so personally connected to that that's where
that's why I ask the question of who owns it?
Because to me, ownership in this case is that deep connection.
It's not just the super fans, it's the guy that
you meet at a bar and you're hanging out and
you're like, oh, you've got a Millennium Falcon shirt on.

(54:36):
You're a Star War fan? Oh yeah, And then you
get his side and sometimes it's yeah, but I really
didn't get into the sequels, and that's okay, let's have
a conversation. Let's keep this one going. So ownership to
me is how it affected you and if it affected
you enough to sort of fly that flag in one

(54:58):
way or another. And I think people don't realize. Like
I was watching one of my favorite people on YouTube
is a guy named Ryan George and he's like a comedian.
He does these really funny pitch meetings for movies and things,
and he's he's kind of like a he's a Canadian comedian,
I guess. But the other day I saw him doing
one of his shows and he had a Stormtrooper shirt on,

(55:18):
and I was like, that's my connection. That's how I'm
gonna get Ryan George on the show. Because if you're
just wearing a Stormtrooper shirt, you're at least saying Star
Wars is cool enough for me to wear it on
my shirt, which is all you need to be. Somebody
who has an affinity or an affection for the story,
and that makes him an owner of the myth right.
He's even if he's only seen the movies twice and

(55:41):
he's just a casual fan, he's fan enough that it
affected him enough to see that shirt on a shelf
and go, that's cool. I'm gonna wear that.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
He's proud enough to tell the world.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
And that he's doing Yep, exactly, Yep. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Now, as we get closer to the end of the interview, Yeah,
as the author of the book, what do you want
people to take away from the book after they've read it?

Speaker 1 (56:09):
I you know, honestly, like, I think there's two things
that I think would make me very proud of this book.
Is if one somebody reads it and relives a memory
of their own, which probably is not directly related to
my memory, but something where they go, oh, yes, I

(56:29):
remember that. Like somebody was telling me that the Sandpile
Galaxy interlude. They just were like, yeah, we used to
play with our figures and it probably wasn't in a sandpile,
and it was probably a very different situation, but he
remembered playing with his action figures as a kid. And
you know, Chris Ryan said it on Our show recently
about the book, he said he thinks it's great because

(56:51):
now maybe some newer fans might get a new understanding
of what it's been like to be a fan from
the beginning, which you know, is just a different way
to look at something you love. The second thing I'd
like people to get out of it is a better understanding,
or understanding might be the wrong word, sort of a

(57:12):
consciousness about why people fight about it. And again I
am discounting one hundred percent the people who are fighting
about it because of politics, because of their own personal
not even personal, but they're anything that's not related to
the story. But there are people who don't like the sequels,

(57:35):
not because it's Disney, not because of you know that
it represents the characters in a more modern way, but
because they didn't like something about it. And I want
people to maybe have those conversations with people and understand
that they don't it doesn't speak to them the way
the prequels didn't speak to me the first time I

(57:55):
saw them, because it wasn't what I believe, there's that ownership,
it wasn't Star Wars. And to understand that that's what's
fueling the passion behind it. That's what's fueling the the
reaction and the response to it. Again, as long as
it's not done in a hateful or spiteful way, if
it's a valid conversation, I still I mean you, and

(58:17):
I know Bill, Bill Pristack, who wrote one of the
comments in my book, Bill is not over the prequels.
He still can't get by the prequels. He still tells
me he doesn't, but he's he's he's passionate about it, right, right, That's.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
The important thing. Doesn't matter what side of the fence
he's on, as long as he's passionate about it. As
you said earlier in this interview, it's because he cares.
He really cares, and he feels like Star Wars is
something that, as the title of the book said, belongs

(58:52):
to him.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Yeah, yep, and so to me. If you walk away
from this with at least giving a little more grace
to people who don't like something that you do like
about Star Wars, then that that to me is a
win as well.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Wow, this amazing. I've learned things about your growing up
that I wasn't aware of, not too many.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
But well, this was great, This was very cool. I
really appreciate uh taking the time, and we'll have to
do this again absolutely all right. Well, everybody who's hanging out,
thank you so much. Make sure to like, subscribe, share,
all that stuff you're supposed to do. Check out the
SSW network dot com and if you want the book,

(59:38):
head on over to who owns the Myth dot com.
You can you can pick it up there. There's links
to the places to get it at Amazon, but you
can also get the signed and swagpack versions at who
owns the Myth dot com. Or you could just go
there find your link, uh and get it from Amazon
as well. It's available on Kindle. It's paper it's hard
cover paperback through who owns the Myth dot com and
paperback coming out very soon. If I can't wait till

(01:00:01):
you know, you guys be disappointed. Awesome, all right, well, thanks,
we will be signing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Off and as Nick Milk might say, made of course
do it always.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Well, that's going to do it for this episode of
Around the Galaxy. Thank you so much for listening, and
if you enjoyed it, please make sure to like, subscribe, share, rate,
and review it wherever you do that stuff with podcasts. Also,
head on over to the SSW network dot com for
more information, previous shows, and links to all the stuff
that you need to know as a around the Galaxy fan.
Thank you so much for listening. This has been copyright

(01:00:38):
twenty twenty five feet in Seed Studios and our music
is brought to us by the band Apollo's Ghost. Available
on Spotify or wherever you find your music.