November 5, 2025 • 21 mins
A coming-of-age novel told from the perspective of the irrepressible Christina, whose encounters with Catholic school nuns, Italian mothers, and small-town Massachusetts will have readers laughing out loud, even when Christina isn't.\ "An awkward, spiky Italian American teen navigates family chaos, Catholic school, and misogyny in 1960s Boston, with brio . . . [T]his brash, witty, slice-of-life book is a feast. Think Adriana Trigiani writing with a sharpened nib, and pray to your own saints that we'll read more from Leone soon." -Kirkus Reviews"Christina the Astonishing is a wonderful book, the funniest I've read in a long time, though there's a lot of melancholy in it as well. All the Catholic lore is hilarious, and the portrait of Italian immigrant life is too . . . Leone writes so well about the awkwardness of adolescent sex and romance." -Tom Perrotta, author of Tracy Flick Can't WinChristie Falcone is a 13-year-old eighth grader at Precious Blood Junior High. She is growing up pazza according to her Italian immigrant mother, Rita, who curses a country that poisons children with chocolate milk and singing mice on television. The nuns at Precious Blood are giving Christina nightmares and facial tics with their daily descriptions of torture and martyrdom. All she'd wanted as a fourth-grader was to become a saint so she could be God's best friend and go straight to heaven and avoid burning in hell for all eternity. At thirteen, though, Christina's nightmares about eyeless martyrs have become dreams of escaping this place where she can see the entire trajectory of her life looming before her in a never-ending hamster loop that goes from Precious Blood to La Sposa Bridal Shoppe and eventually across the street to Carmello's Funeral Home without ever leaving her neighborhood only seven miles from Boston. But Harvard Square beckons and Christina's window to the world cracks open, along with the entire American culture of the 1960s, as she grows from girl to woman.Christina the Astonishing is an endearing look at an unforgettable character that will ring true to all readers regardless of the time or place they happened to take the roller-coaster ride to adulthood.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, So for all these years I've said, Hey, if
you're looking for a great podcast, just google me Arrowcollins,
and then all of a sudden you find yourself on
a streaming platform and can't figure out where anything is.
He said, he was talking to this person. But okay,
So what I've done is I've centralized it. Now Arrow
dot net A R R O E dot net, all
seventeen of my podcasts are up there for you to enjoy. Hello,
(00:21):
and good morning, Mary Anne. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hello? Arrow, I'm doing okay so far.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
My god, I love your energy. Holy moly. I mean,
how do you step into that role each day? Is it?
Because you've totally believe that when you come into this
day expect creativity.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
The first thing I do to reorient my brain is
become queen on spelling b I don't I don't stop
until I'm queen, and then once I'm queen, I can
reign over my day.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I've been really anxious to share a conversation with you
because one of the things that I've put so many
years of study into is how is it that creates
people eventually make their way to writing, to painting, to
doing music. It's almost like it's always been there, but
we're allowing those other things to stand in the way
until we find the power of the page and a
writing instrument.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
It's really true. You have to knock down a bunch
of barriers that crop up in front of you. You know,
it's I mean, in my case, you know, I'm a
first generation daughter of Italian immigrants, grew up seven miles
outside of Boston and a little enclave where everybody was
either Italian, Irish or French Canadian, and all the Italians
(01:38):
were from the same village in Italy. So it was
a place that had a lot of storytelling that I mean,
you know, fed into my career eventually. But the thing
was at my period and I'm old you were expected
to basically marry a guy from the neighborhood, having kids
(02:00):
and not go to college, and you know what I mean,
So there were it had to begin with breaking down
those barriers.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
How did you handle that? Because I mean I went
through the same thing up in Billings, Montana, and I
ended up moving two five hundred miles from home just
so I could get on with my own life.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yes, I ended up well, I moved into Boston, first
and went to UMass Boston because it was all I
could afford. And the good sisters at my Catholic school
would not give any endorsements for a non Catholic college,
so they wouldn't give any recommendations. So I had to
get in on my own and pay for it myself,
(02:39):
and then I moved to New York. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Wow, Well you just described Christina the astonishing because I
mean in Boston at a Catholic school and it's a whoa.
So you pulled from your own chapters.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Then totally, totally, I really did. However, I mean there's
a lot fictional in this too. There's like, there's there's
an old lady that she becomes friends with who was
an exotic dancer at the Old Howard Stripper And this
is someone I wish I had known growing up but
did not. And she meets her because the nun says,
(03:14):
all right, who knows who sings and who dances? All right, Christina,
you're a tap dancer, so and so you're a singer.
We're all going to do corporal works of mercy at
Saint Lucy's Home for the elderly blind. And when she
gets there, the floor is carpeted, which is kind of
a metaphor for my acting career, I think sometimes. But
(03:35):
she makes friends with this exotic old lady there, and
she stays friends with her until she goes off and
does her thing. So there's a lot that didn't happen
in my life, of course, like meeting a really sweet
nun that didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And yet I'm so inspired with the exotic older woman.
And the reason why is because, you know, if I
were the medicine man of a name and I walked
down looking for who was going to replace me in
that particular Native American nation, it would be the exotic
because they totally get it. They understand the energies that
move through them and how to use them to help
others make you know, a happier day.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
That's really true. I agree. I think you're absolutely right.
Oh well, it all comes from empathy, doesn't it, which
is severely lacking right now in our society.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Did you find yourself in that group of people walking
into a conversation just to be the listener, Mary Anne?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yes, I've been a lurker all my life, and that's
how you know you're a writer. You know, I was
this lurking kid just outside of which is how I
remember entire conversations from the grown ups. You know.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
That's interesting because I mean, I mean, I'm at that
age now where people go, don't you remember when we
talked about this. I'm sure we did, you know, I can't.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
No, No, that's true. I forget much, but I remember
delibly entire conversations from my mother, who was still quoted
today by my friends. You know, because she was such
a character. I wrote an entire book about her. She
was an amazing woman. And yeah, I agree with you totally.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
So when you write a book like that, only because
I struggle with with my side of the story of
a certain person, because that's our interpretation, and I've always believed.
I want to read the book one day that has
all the children in the family writing a story about
their mother, and to show you how every one of
them have a different experience.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Oh my god, you're just you know what you're doing.
You're quoting the dedication from my second member of Boss Up.
You are quoting it. I said to my brother and sister,
each of us from a different source, each of us
from the same source, but all of us with a
different story to tell.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
So true, you go so true. So what do you
do when you set your current book Christina the Estoni
in Boston nineteen sixties, Because I tried to do that
with my book Halloween seventy eight, and I literally had
to do so much research to make sure that I
had to do right. Oh my god, there are a
lot of people out there that will call you out
in a second.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And even if you lived it, you're not going to
remember every part of it. You're not going to And
so yeah, I had to do a lot of research.
And that's like, that is like walking a tightrope when
you do research, I think, I mean, you could fall
off and lose the whole day, Like, oh my god,
listen to this. It's already woo woo Ginsburg on woms
(06:34):
you know, it's like no, no, it's really. That was
the most difficult part for me was the research, not
falling off that tightrope.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
And you hope to God that you can read your
handwriting when you go in there and you do that research,
because I mean, man, you're writing so quickly because you
know you've got a lot to do.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It's true, It's absolutely true. I can't read my own
writing either.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I make it up. I mean, I've even tried to
take you to chat GPT and it says, go away,
I really can't deal with you today.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
But despite all of that, it was really fun to
go back there too. That's the part that's so you know,
tempting about researches. It's it's really fun to go there.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah. But I'm that person that likes to live in
the presence, so to you know, to trap myself in
the past like that. You know, it's like, Okay, am
I what am I really supposed to be doing here?
I realize I'm supposed to be writing a book, But
is there a bigger calling here that I'm supposed to
be learning something?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Huh, Well, I'm not worried about that. I just felt
driven to write this book. I'm really not worried about it.
I felt driven to write this because I felt like
it's really shunny. It's really it's something we're all missing
right now, which is, you know, hearing about a tight
family and you know the insanity that can come from adolescence. Adolescence.
(07:55):
You know, I'm really interested in people of different ages
reading this book book Christina the Astonishing, because I think
adolescence plays across the generations. It doesn't matter what generation
you're reading about. The feelings are always the same, you know,
defining yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I know some pretty old guy sixty five up to
eighty ninety years old who have some adolescent problems. And
it's fun to sit there and say, I don't want
to sound like your dad right now, dude, but you
need to kind of pipe down right now.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
It's really true, It's really true. Those things will persist, yes.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And you know, one of the things that you are
not afraid to talk about different things in other words,
I mean, you go a little melancholy, But I love
that because you give us that opportunity to feel texture.
And that's what's missing from so many books is that
you want to stay up here on this high. You
want people to feel good, you want them to figure
out the cliffhanger, blah blah blah, and all of a sudden,
here comes to melancholy and go now you're talking. Now
you've got my attention.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Well, hell, I mean, let's face it, there is no
adolescence without that kind of deep going inside yourself and
like brooding kind of thing. I remember, I mean I
spent hours in my room listening to Dylan, which drove
my you know, it made my mother's head explode every
time she heard his voice, so, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And yet today I find more respect for that man,
and I can see it in so many different shapes
of music from you know, I'm just everywhere, and it's like,
oh my god, we lived it. We are the luckiest
generation on this planet to have seen it all, really
not worried about it.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
It's really true. It's really true. I agree. I mean
that's what It was folk music that actually alerted me
to civil rights and all you know what I mean, feminism,
all of that. It was folk music that led me there,
you know, then started listening to Dylan, started listening to
Joan Biez, you know, wishing I was old enough to
go to Club forty seven here in Boston, you know,
(09:44):
where all the folkies were. But yeah, I mean they
led me on that road. So it was a good thing.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And what would you have done if you would have
gone to that club and there sits a nun as
you walk in, she's in there. Guys, you know, in
their own little secret worlds they want to go to.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Let me tell you something, I wrote an article for
Konya Senti, which is here in Boston w b R
about the nuns on the bus, because as much as
I was like horrified by, you know, the nuns that
I had coming up, I really respect these women that
were going out and fighting for the marginalized, you know
what I mean, and getting yelled at by you know,
(10:26):
the guys in red coats at the cardinals, saying like no, no, no,
you have to pay more attention to reproductive you know,
shutting down reproductive rights, and they're like, no, we're feeding people.
So I wrote a thing about how the nuns if
you were talked out of turn. I don't know if
you remember this. You were called bold. You are bold,
(10:48):
miss Leoni, and I said, I want to tell these
nuns you are bold, and I'm here for it. You know,
you're fighting for marginalized people. So and one part of
me does feel sympathy for those women because our classes,
I don't know about you, Our classes were almost fifty kids. Yep,
that's him keeping fifty eight year olds. I mean not easy,
(11:09):
not easy, right.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
That's where I learned how to hide. And so therefore,
you know, because I would hide in the back of
the room, where I would hide in different groups, and
that gave me a writing opportunities where I could sit
down and start penciling anything I could out into piece
of paper because if you can't see me, I'm not there.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
The ses yes, And were you tall enough to be
at the back of the room because I was always
in the first row, which was terrible.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Until I was like small. I was the shortest kid
in school until a senior, and all of a sudden
I was wearing high waters and shirts that were too
small for me, and I just did not understand.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
That that had to be strange. Shooting up like that.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Oh, it's scary as all can be. And of course
now I'm shrinking, and which really I'm going wait a second,
how did I shoot up that high? And now I'm shrinking?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Come on, I am too. I am shrinking.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Also, please do not move. There's more with Mary Ann
leon I mean up next the name of her book,
Christina the Astonishing for every age group. Trust me, you're
going to love this. We are back with Mary Anne
Leone the Boston accent inside the paragraphs because I'm so
fascinated with that, and that's inspired by Mark Twain who
(12:16):
said use your accent, put it inside what you write
and I'm going, oh.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I never got to use it in any of my
acting until I did Clear History, where I cannot tell
you the delight of being in a ditch and being
able to screen where words at Larry David in my
own home accent. But I never actually got to use
that accent. And in fact, when I was cast in
The Sopranos, it was almost it was even more difficult
(12:45):
because there's a similarity with the Jersey accent in that
they opened end the vowels, you know, christopha like that,
and that's the same as as New England, but they
their vowels are different. They would say talk or you
know what I meanstead of talk well the way we would.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
It's so fascinating that down here in the South, the
one impersonation that I really hear a lot of lately
is are people trying to do the Boston accent. And
I don't know if it's because of the Patriots or
even the seventy six ers or what is going on
in the East Coast over there where everybody's trying to
impersonate that Eastern accent. And it's like, because I mean,
the Southern accent was the one thing that everybody went to.
(13:22):
But I think people said, oh, that's a Southern accent.
That didn't sound too smart.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Right, right, But the Boston accent is difficult, I think,
and I think the actress. I think actors live in
fear of it. I thought Chris nailed it in the town.
But I also remember, you know this great story about
Benedict Cumberbatch, who is a starling boy. He played Chris's
son in Augusto, sh County, and I remember he was
(13:47):
coming in to do The Departed here and when we
were we were I was mentored by this woman Mary Simosa,
who had twin daughters with severe CP. Our son Jesse
our son, Jesse had cerebral palsy, our late son, and
she really really helped me get him included. It was
(14:08):
a two year battle, blah blah blah. But Anastasia, who
graduated from Georgetown Pre Law, and this is a girl
who uses a wheelchair, has severe cerebral palsy, had a
full boat to London School of Economics. So she calls
me up and says, Marianne, I'm going to the BAFTA
Awards and could you tell Benedict Cumberbatch to just come
(14:29):
over and say hi to me. And I said, okay,
And I said, you hold up a sign that says
Chris Cooper is my godfather, and I'll tell Benedict to
come over to you. So we call Benedict, We tell
him you go over and say hi to our friend there.
And he says, oh, no, I've got it. I'm not
going to the baptist. Would she have a drink with me?
(14:51):
So he takes her for a drink. You could hear
her screaming from over here. And not only did he
not talk down to her, he was fantastic. You know.
He wasn't like I'm being nice to the person with
the you know, he was fantastic. So I said, when
you come to Boston, we will pick you up at
your hotel. I will make you a fantastic dinner and
I will go line by line with you for your
(15:13):
Boston accent. Because I appreciated so much what he did.
What a what a good guy he is.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I love that about about actors and actresses as well
as creative people. Is that it you know, it's just
one of those things that we're so willing to share
with people. If you just want to accept it, don't
don't take advantage of it. Just accept the moment.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Like this moment here, it was so beautiful, really beautiful,
and he spent a great day with us, and so
we had a really good tell.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Well, that right there is future information for a book
that you're going to do some other time in the future,
because I mean you you can light that story up
and build upon that whole thing and make several chapters
just out of that one moment.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
It's really true. Well, I've thought about, you know, about
our travels together, mine and Chris's, and how fun it
would be to write about that, you know, because we've
been everywhere, and some of it traveling with a kid
in a wheelchair. So it's been pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
So, now, how do you do your writing discipline if
you're constantly traveling, Because I'm I'm I'm pretty much a
writing snob. If I'm not putting pin to paper by
seven am, we got a problem.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You know, I'm not. I I am like different in
that way in that I don't feel like I need
to ruminate for a long time before I put it
on paper. I really do, and then I spew it
onto paper. Late at night when I'm completely out of
my mind, and I don't edit until the next morning,
(16:40):
you know. So my habit is writing late at night
and edit the next morning.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I call that fermenting. You ferment because there's a separation
between the writer and the receiver.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Right, that's right, that's right, And I don't want to
What I don't want to do is be that person
who's self censoring, you know, and that really hurts everything.
If you've got that critic over your left shoulder saying like,
don't write that, that's stupid, you know, so I really
want to escape that.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Well, then do you turn it into a wineglass moment
where you kind of like jot down a little note
and you say, okay, I just I want to go
back to this page. I'm going to have a glass
of wine first of all. Then I'll come back and
I'll readjust it if I need to, because I'll have
the courage at that point in time to take a chance.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
That's right, that's absolutely right. Wow, yep.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Now, when you write, do you foresee yourself as the
actress on that page or do you have to step
back and be the director?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Oh no, I don't do either of those. It's like,
I think I use the same discipline I use as
an actor, which is like to be in the moment
and tell the truth. If you're not in the moment,
if you're not telling the truth, it's not good. If
you're self conscious about your writing, just like if you're
self conscious as an actor, it's not good. You can't
(18:01):
you can't be self conscious about it. You have to
be in the moment of truth, you know, and tell
the truth.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Mary, And this is this is the type of book though,
that when when you read Christina the Astonishing now and
let's say you come back to it two to five
years from now, I have this feeling inside my heart
you're gonna say I wrote this, Oh my god, this
is really good. I mean, do you ever have those
moments where you just go, who wrote this book?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Wow? Okay, you know what. I don't want to sound
like I think I'm great, but I have had a
few moments like that. I've also had moments where I've said, oh, yeah,
that should that shouldn't have happened, that should not have
been published. Yeah. Yeah. So I have equal of both
of them.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I will say, So, now, what is your next step
with this? Because we're talking about a thirteen year old
adolescent that I mean, we're I mean, people are going
to grow up with Christina here, and to me, that's that,
to me is what it's all about, because I mean,
we all grew up with Harry Potter, we all grew
up with the Twilight series, we all grew up with
the Sopranos. We'll see the thing about it, You see
how we do that? We have all been trained to
(19:00):
grow up with our favorite characters on TV as well
as reading books.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Now, it's true, it's absolutely true. But you know, I
think that the Christina thing is that she doesn't stay
thirteen in the book. Actually we see her go up
to her early twenties in this So do you know
how did she besk in me? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Sorry, I was gonna say, how did you deal with that?
Because my daughter's forty eight years old and in my
mind she's still fourteen. There's no way she's forty eight
years old. I just do not believe it.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Well, I still remember very clearly what it was like
to be in the early twenties, you know, I really
remember that the moment. What I remember is that every
other moment, it's that imposter syndrome written large. When you're
in your twenties, you just feel like, am I really
doing this? Am I really an actor? Am I really this?
Am I really that? I mean? That's what I remember
(19:51):
is who am I? You know? Just am I? And
so that once you're aware of that, you can cling
to that and you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I do and I do have to ask you. So
you became an actress because and let me put it
this way, because the writer in you wanted to see
what words on a page sounded like coming through your
vocal cords.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
No, but I did both. It's like I was a
writer and one of it, one of the means of
writing was a means toward getting an agent. It's like
I remember hooking up with three friends when we were
new to New York City and thinking, you know what,
you can't get an agent to come and watch Macbeth
(20:37):
on Avenue D for the ninetieth time, but you can
get them to come and have a drink at a
comedy club. So we wrote Sketch Comedy and it was
the scariest thing I've ever done, which is to go
and do these comedy clubs. And after that, I had
no fear of audition, because there is nothing like a
New York audience at midnight, you know, and going up
(20:58):
in front of them and doing and then you've got
the fourth wall up, so if you are heckled, you
can't even say anything. So yeah, that was an incredible
growth experience.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Oh my god. And I know we're out of time,
but I love that fourth wall when somebody tries to
break it and we're up there with that microphone and
we go, hmmm, it's just that little sound that we make.
I'll deal with you later.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. Man.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
You got to come back to this show anytime in
the future, Mary, and the door is always going to
be open for you.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Thank you, Erro. I'm very pleased. I had a really
great time. You ask really good questions.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Will you'd be brilliant today?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Okay, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Thank you,
Okay, So for all these years I've said, Hey, if
you're looking for a great podcast, just google me Arrowcollins,
and then all of a sudden you find yourself on
a streaming platform and can't figure out where anything is.
He said, he was talking to this person. But okay,
So what I've done is I've centralized it. Now Arrow
dot net A R R O E dot net, all
seventeen of my podcasts are up there for you to enjoy. Hello,
(00:21):
and good morning, Mary Anne. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hello? Arrow, I'm doing okay so far.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
My god, I love your energy. Holy moly. I mean,
how do you step into that role each day? Is it?
Because you've totally believe that when you come into this
day expect creativity.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
The first thing I do to reorient my brain is
become queen on spelling b I don't I don't stop
until I'm queen, and then once I'm queen, I can
reign over my day.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I've been really anxious to share a conversation with you
because one of the things that I've put so many
years of study into is how is it that creates
people eventually make their way to writing, to painting, to
doing music. It's almost like it's always been there, but
we're allowing those other things to stand in the way
until we find the power of the page and a
writing instrument.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
It's really true. You have to knock down a bunch
of barriers that crop up in front of you. You know,
it's I mean, in my case, you know, I'm a
first generation daughter of Italian immigrants, grew up seven miles
outside of Boston and a little enclave where everybody was
either Italian, Irish or French Canadian, and all the Italians
(01:38):
were from the same village in Italy. So it was
a place that had a lot of storytelling that I mean,
you know, fed into my career eventually. But the thing
was at my period and I'm old you were expected
to basically marry a guy from the neighborhood, having kids
(02:00):
and not go to college, and you know what I mean,
So there were it had to begin with breaking down
those barriers.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
How did you handle that? Because I mean I went
through the same thing up in Billings, Montana, and I
ended up moving two five hundred miles from home just
so I could get on with my own life.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yes, I ended up well, I moved into Boston, first
and went to UMass Boston because it was all I
could afford. And the good sisters at my Catholic school
would not give any endorsements for a non Catholic college,
so they wouldn't give any recommendations. So I had to
get in on my own and pay for it myself,
(02:39):
and then I moved to New York. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Wow, Well you just described Christina the astonishing because I
mean in Boston at a Catholic school and it's a whoa.
So you pulled from your own chapters.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Then totally, totally, I really did. However, I mean there's
a lot fictional in this too. There's like, there's there's
an old lady that she becomes friends with who was
an exotic dancer at the Old Howard Stripper And this
is someone I wish I had known growing up but
did not. And she meets her because the nun says,
(03:14):
all right, who knows who sings and who dances? All right, Christina,
you're a tap dancer, so and so you're a singer.
We're all going to do corporal works of mercy at
Saint Lucy's Home for the elderly blind. And when she
gets there, the floor is carpeted, which is kind of
a metaphor for my acting career, I think sometimes. But
(03:35):
she makes friends with this exotic old lady there, and
she stays friends with her until she goes off and
does her thing. So there's a lot that didn't happen
in my life, of course, like meeting a really sweet
nun that didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And yet I'm so inspired with the exotic older woman.
And the reason why is because, you know, if I
were the medicine man of a name and I walked
down looking for who was going to replace me in
that particular Native American nation, it would be the exotic
because they totally get it. They understand the energies that
move through them and how to use them to help
others make you know, a happier day.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
That's really true. I agree. I think you're absolutely right.
Oh well, it all comes from empathy, doesn't it, which
is severely lacking right now in our society.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Did you find yourself in that group of people walking
into a conversation just to be the listener, Mary Anne?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yes, I've been a lurker all my life, and that's
how you know you're a writer. You know, I was
this lurking kid just outside of which is how I
remember entire conversations from the grown ups. You know.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
That's interesting because I mean, I mean, I'm at that
age now where people go, don't you remember when we
talked about this. I'm sure we did, you know, I can't.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
No, No, that's true. I forget much, but I remember
delibly entire conversations from my mother, who was still quoted
today by my friends. You know, because she was such
a character. I wrote an entire book about her. She
was an amazing woman. And yeah, I agree with you totally.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
So when you write a book like that, only because
I struggle with with my side of the story of
a certain person, because that's our interpretation, and I've always believed.
I want to read the book one day that has
all the children in the family writing a story about
their mother, and to show you how every one of
them have a different experience.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Oh my god, you're just you know what you're doing.
You're quoting the dedication from my second member of Boss Up.
You are quoting it. I said to my brother and sister,
each of us from a different source, each of us
from the same source, but all of us with a
different story to tell.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
So true, you go so true. So what do you
do when you set your current book Christina the Estoni
in Boston nineteen sixties, Because I tried to do that
with my book Halloween seventy eight, and I literally had
to do so much research to make sure that I
had to do right. Oh my god, there are a
lot of people out there that will call you out
in a second.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And even if you lived it, you're not going to
remember every part of it. You're not going to And
so yeah, I had to do a lot of research.
And that's like, that is like walking a tightrope when
you do research, I think, I mean, you could fall
off and lose the whole day, Like, oh my god,
listen to this. It's already woo woo Ginsburg on woms
(06:34):
you know, it's like no, no, it's really. That was
the most difficult part for me was the research, not
falling off that tightrope.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
And you hope to God that you can read your
handwriting when you go in there and you do that research,
because I mean, man, you're writing so quickly because you
know you've got a lot to do.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It's true, It's absolutely true. I can't read my own
writing either.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I make it up. I mean, I've even tried to
take you to chat GPT and it says, go away,
I really can't deal with you today.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
But despite all of that, it was really fun to
go back there too. That's the part that's so you know,
tempting about researches. It's it's really fun to go there.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah. But I'm that person that likes to live in
the presence, so to you know, to trap myself in
the past like that. You know, it's like, Okay, am
I what am I really supposed to be doing here?
I realize I'm supposed to be writing a book, But
is there a bigger calling here that I'm supposed to
be learning something?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Huh, Well, I'm not worried about that. I just felt
driven to write this book. I'm really not worried about it.
I felt driven to write this because I felt like
it's really shunny. It's really it's something we're all missing
right now, which is, you know, hearing about a tight
family and you know the insanity that can come from adolescence. Adolescence.
(07:55):
You know, I'm really interested in people of different ages
reading this book book Christina the Astonishing, because I think
adolescence plays across the generations. It doesn't matter what generation
you're reading about. The feelings are always the same, you know,
defining yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I know some pretty old guy sixty five up to
eighty ninety years old who have some adolescent problems. And
it's fun to sit there and say, I don't want
to sound like your dad right now, dude, but you
need to kind of pipe down right now.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
It's really true, It's really true. Those things will persist, yes.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And you know, one of the things that you are
not afraid to talk about different things in other words,
I mean, you go a little melancholy, But I love
that because you give us that opportunity to feel texture.
And that's what's missing from so many books is that
you want to stay up here on this high. You
want people to feel good, you want them to figure
out the cliffhanger, blah blah blah, and all of a sudden,
here comes to melancholy and go now you're talking. Now
you've got my attention.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Well, hell, I mean, let's face it, there is no
adolescence without that kind of deep going inside yourself and
like brooding kind of thing. I remember, I mean I
spent hours in my room listening to Dylan, which drove
my you know, it made my mother's head explode every
time she heard his voice, so, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And yet today I find more respect for that man,
and I can see it in so many different shapes
of music from you know, I'm just everywhere, and it's like,
oh my god, we lived it. We are the luckiest
generation on this planet to have seen it all, really
not worried about it.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
It's really true. It's really true. I agree. I mean
that's what It was folk music that actually alerted me
to civil rights and all you know what I mean, feminism,
all of that. It was folk music that led me there,
you know, then started listening to Dylan, started listening to
Joan Biez, you know, wishing I was old enough to
go to Club forty seven here in Boston, you know,
(09:44):
where all the folkies were. But yeah, I mean they
led me on that road. So it was a good thing.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And what would you have done if you would have
gone to that club and there sits a nun as
you walk in, she's in there. Guys, you know, in
their own little secret worlds they want to go to.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Let me tell you something, I wrote an article for
Konya Senti, which is here in Boston w b R
about the nuns on the bus, because as much as
I was like horrified by, you know, the nuns that
I had coming up, I really respect these women that
were going out and fighting for the marginalized, you know
what I mean, and getting yelled at by you know,
(10:26):
the guys in red coats at the cardinals, saying like no, no, no,
you have to pay more attention to reproductive you know,
shutting down reproductive rights, and they're like, no, we're feeding people.
So I wrote a thing about how the nuns if
you were talked out of turn. I don't know if
you remember this. You were called bold. You are bold,
(10:48):
miss Leoni, and I said, I want to tell these
nuns you are bold, and I'm here for it. You know,
you're fighting for marginalized people. So and one part of
me does feel sympathy for those women because our classes,
I don't know about you, Our classes were almost fifty kids. Yep,
that's him keeping fifty eight year olds. I mean not easy,
(11:09):
not easy, right.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
That's where I learned how to hide. And so therefore,
you know, because I would hide in the back of
the room, where I would hide in different groups, and
that gave me a writing opportunities where I could sit
down and start penciling anything I could out into piece
of paper because if you can't see me, I'm not there.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
The ses yes, And were you tall enough to be
at the back of the room because I was always
in the first row, which was terrible.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Until I was like small. I was the shortest kid
in school until a senior, and all of a sudden
I was wearing high waters and shirts that were too
small for me, and I just did not understand.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
That that had to be strange. Shooting up like that.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Oh, it's scary as all can be. And of course
now I'm shrinking, and which really I'm going wait a second,
how did I shoot up that high? And now I'm shrinking?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Come on, I am too. I am shrinking.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Also, please do not move. There's more with Mary Ann
leon I mean up next the name of her book,
Christina the Astonishing for every age group. Trust me, you're
going to love this. We are back with Mary Anne
Leone the Boston accent inside the paragraphs because I'm so
fascinated with that, and that's inspired by Mark Twain who
(12:16):
said use your accent, put it inside what you write
and I'm going, oh.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I never got to use it in any of my
acting until I did Clear History, where I cannot tell
you the delight of being in a ditch and being
able to screen where words at Larry David in my
own home accent. But I never actually got to use
that accent. And in fact, when I was cast in
The Sopranos, it was almost it was even more difficult
(12:45):
because there's a similarity with the Jersey accent in that
they opened end the vowels, you know, christopha like that,
and that's the same as as New England, but they
their vowels are different. They would say talk or you
know what I meanstead of talk well the way we would.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
It's so fascinating that down here in the South, the
one impersonation that I really hear a lot of lately
is are people trying to do the Boston accent. And
I don't know if it's because of the Patriots or
even the seventy six ers or what is going on
in the East Coast over there where everybody's trying to
impersonate that Eastern accent. And it's like, because I mean,
the Southern accent was the one thing that everybody went to.
(13:22):
But I think people said, oh, that's a Southern accent.
That didn't sound too smart.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Right, right, But the Boston accent is difficult, I think,
and I think the actress. I think actors live in
fear of it. I thought Chris nailed it in the town.
But I also remember, you know this great story about
Benedict Cumberbatch, who is a starling boy. He played Chris's
son in Augusto, sh County, and I remember he was
(13:47):
coming in to do The Departed here and when we
were we were I was mentored by this woman Mary Simosa,
who had twin daughters with severe CP. Our son Jesse
our son, Jesse had cerebral palsy, our late son, and
she really really helped me get him included. It was
(14:08):
a two year battle, blah blah blah. But Anastasia, who
graduated from Georgetown Pre Law, and this is a girl
who uses a wheelchair, has severe cerebral palsy, had a
full boat to London School of Economics. So she calls
me up and says, Marianne, I'm going to the BAFTA
Awards and could you tell Benedict Cumberbatch to just come
(14:29):
over and say hi to me. And I said, okay,
And I said, you hold up a sign that says
Chris Cooper is my godfather, and I'll tell Benedict to
come over to you. So we call Benedict, We tell
him you go over and say hi to our friend there.
And he says, oh, no, I've got it. I'm not
going to the baptist. Would she have a drink with me?
(14:51):
So he takes her for a drink. You could hear
her screaming from over here. And not only did he
not talk down to her, he was fantastic. You know.
He wasn't like I'm being nice to the person with
the you know, he was fantastic. So I said, when
you come to Boston, we will pick you up at
your hotel. I will make you a fantastic dinner and
I will go line by line with you for your
(15:13):
Boston accent. Because I appreciated so much what he did.
What a what a good guy he is.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I love that about about actors and actresses as well
as creative people. Is that it you know, it's just
one of those things that we're so willing to share
with people. If you just want to accept it, don't
don't take advantage of it. Just accept the moment.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Like this moment here, it was so beautiful, really beautiful,
and he spent a great day with us, and so
we had a really good tell.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Well, that right there is future information for a book
that you're going to do some other time in the future,
because I mean you you can light that story up
and build upon that whole thing and make several chapters
just out of that one moment.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
It's really true. Well, I've thought about, you know, about
our travels together, mine and Chris's, and how fun it
would be to write about that, you know, because we've
been everywhere, and some of it traveling with a kid
in a wheelchair. So it's been pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
So, now, how do you do your writing discipline if
you're constantly traveling, Because I'm I'm I'm pretty much a
writing snob. If I'm not putting pin to paper by
seven am, we got a problem.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You know, I'm not. I I am like different in
that way in that I don't feel like I need
to ruminate for a long time before I put it
on paper. I really do, and then I spew it
onto paper. Late at night when I'm completely out of
my mind, and I don't edit until the next morning,
(16:40):
you know. So my habit is writing late at night
and edit the next morning.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I call that fermenting. You ferment because there's a separation
between the writer and the receiver.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Right, that's right, that's right, And I don't want to
What I don't want to do is be that person
who's self censoring, you know, and that really hurts everything.
If you've got that critic over your left shoulder saying like,
don't write that, that's stupid, you know, so I really
want to escape that.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Well, then do you turn it into a wineglass moment
where you kind of like jot down a little note
and you say, okay, I just I want to go
back to this page. I'm going to have a glass
of wine first of all. Then I'll come back and
I'll readjust it if I need to, because I'll have
the courage at that point in time to take a chance.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
That's right, that's absolutely right. Wow, yep.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Now, when you write, do you foresee yourself as the
actress on that page or do you have to step
back and be the director?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Oh no, I don't do either of those. It's like,
I think I use the same discipline I use as
an actor, which is like to be in the moment
and tell the truth. If you're not in the moment,
if you're not telling the truth, it's not good. If
you're self conscious about your writing, just like if you're
self conscious as an actor, it's not good. You can't
(18:01):
you can't be self conscious about it. You have to
be in the moment of truth, you know, and tell
the truth.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Mary, And this is this is the type of book though,
that when when you read Christina the Astonishing now and
let's say you come back to it two to five
years from now, I have this feeling inside my heart
you're gonna say I wrote this, Oh my god, this
is really good. I mean, do you ever have those
moments where you just go, who wrote this book?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Wow? Okay, you know what. I don't want to sound
like I think I'm great, but I have had a
few moments like that. I've also had moments where I've said, oh, yeah,
that should that shouldn't have happened, that should not have
been published. Yeah. Yeah. So I have equal of both
of them.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I will say, So, now, what is your next step
with this? Because we're talking about a thirteen year old
adolescent that I mean, we're I mean, people are going
to grow up with Christina here, and to me, that's that,
to me is what it's all about, because I mean,
we all grew up with Harry Potter, we all grew
up with the Twilight series, we all grew up with
the Sopranos. We'll see the thing about it, You see
how we do that? We have all been trained to
(19:00):
grow up with our favorite characters on TV as well
as reading books.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Now, it's true, it's absolutely true. But you know, I
think that the Christina thing is that she doesn't stay
thirteen in the book. Actually we see her go up
to her early twenties in this So do you know
how did she besk in me? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Sorry, I was gonna say, how did you deal with that?
Because my daughter's forty eight years old and in my
mind she's still fourteen. There's no way she's forty eight
years old. I just do not believe it.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Well, I still remember very clearly what it was like
to be in the early twenties, you know, I really
remember that the moment. What I remember is that every
other moment, it's that imposter syndrome written large. When you're
in your twenties, you just feel like, am I really
doing this? Am I really an actor? Am I really this?
Am I really that? I mean? That's what I remember
(19:51):
is who am I? You know? Just am I? And
so that once you're aware of that, you can cling
to that and you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I do and I do have to ask you. So
you became an actress because and let me put it
this way, because the writer in you wanted to see
what words on a page sounded like coming through your
vocal cords.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
No, but I did both. It's like I was a
writer and one of it, one of the means of
writing was a means toward getting an agent. It's like
I remember hooking up with three friends when we were
new to New York City and thinking, you know what,
you can't get an agent to come and watch Macbeth
(20:37):
on Avenue D for the ninetieth time, but you can
get them to come and have a drink at a
comedy club. So we wrote Sketch Comedy and it was
the scariest thing I've ever done, which is to go
and do these comedy clubs. And after that, I had
no fear of audition, because there is nothing like a
New York audience at midnight, you know, and going up
(20:58):
in front of them and doing and then you've got
the fourth wall up, so if you are heckled, you
can't even say anything. So yeah, that was an incredible
growth experience.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Oh my god. And I know we're out of time,
but I love that fourth wall when somebody tries to
break it and we're up there with that microphone and
we go, hmmm, it's just that little sound that we make.
I'll deal with you later.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. Man.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
You got to come back to this show anytime in
the future, Mary, and the door is always going to
be open for you.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Thank you, Erro. I'm very pleased. I had a really
great time. You ask really good questions.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Will you'd be brilliant today?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Okay, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Thank you,
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