November 8, 2025 • 12 mins
Why Free Speech Matters and How to Use It Fearlessly If you’re like 84% of Americans, you think self-censorship and cancel culture are serious issues. You may feel like you’re not free to speak your mind, or you worry that you’ll be alienated for expressing your opinions. This can lead to self-censorship and feeling like people don't know the authentic, real you. In Can I Say That?, Dr. Chloe Carmichael, USA Today bestselling author of Nervous Energy, explains why and how to escape this cycle of anxiety and avoidance and start embracing our diversity of viewpoints. She unpacks the science behind open dialogue and why it’s essential to the cognitive and emotional processes that create wellness. Dr. Chloe also offers simple, conversational techniques to help you express yourself freely, listen resiliently, and navigate socially or emotionally charged conversations authentically with quiet confidence. We can talk to each other again and not tiptoe around tough topics. We can reconnect with family, friends and neighbors to enjoy respectful, meaningful conversations. We can disagree safely and productively—our mental health, social relationships, and even our democracy depend upon it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's all in one location. Ero dot net A r
r oe dot net. I've talked about hosting seventeen different
podcasts for how many years, and it's been like, well,
where are they at? I don't know, just google it. Well,
that's not a good idea ero dot net, A r
r oe dot net. Good morning, doctor, How are you
doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hey, I'm great, Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
You do realize how important this book is, right because
we are in an age where we've got a bunch
of introverts taking on people that are extroverts, and somewhere
in the middle there's silence and it's like, oh, but
the doctor is up to something, Miss Chloe.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yes, I think that's very well said. I'm glad that
the topic clicks for you.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Well, it clicks with me because I've dedicated my soul
to being in the public eye. But the problem is
is I'm getting a lot of shrug shoulders, eyes that
are rolling, people that would rather return to their smartphone.
And when I stepped inside your pages, I'm going, this
is the answer, this is what I've actually been looking for,
because now I can utilize the tools and Doctor Chloe
can step through that door and help these that are
(01:01):
going whenever you only live once.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Well, thanks, Erro, I'm so glad to hear that. I'm
glad you're excited about the topic.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Well, I mean your research in here is spot on.
When you talk about eighty four percent of Americans believe that,
you know, is that we're talking cancel culture, We're talking censorship,
We're talking about serious issues. Eighty four percent of Americans
know what's going on. But what are we doing about it?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, I think that they know what's going on, but
they think that the safe move then is to just
you know, stay quiet. And so my book is to
help them realize that that's actually not the safe thing.
That there's a mental health cost to stifling yourself, you know, repressions, depression, denial,
actually loneliness as well, when we are you know, masking
(01:49):
our true selves from people. So I want them to
understand that if we really care about mental health, that
doesn't mean everybody's shut up and be in a safe space.
It means actually we learn how to be ourselves and
let other people be themselves.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
How many people had my dad for a dad who
would look at me straight in the eye and say,
do not speak unless you're spoken to and it's like,
oh okay, and then I got into radio boy. I
didn't listen to him, did I?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well, yeah, you have it so special skill set. They're errow.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I mean, because I mean you're talking about the five
tools of self restraint. Oh my god, this is so
what's going on in the world. Because people are more
apt to thinking, I've got a voice, I can say
whatever I want. Now restrain it so I can listen
to you, so I can patiently sit here and together
we can create a solution.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Exactly. So I want people to understand that too, is
that you know, we're not talking about having no filter here,
that there's a difference between self censorship, which is where
you're really holding back on true things that actually matter
to you in terms of your values, versus you know,
healthy self restraint, like you don't have to like literally
say everything to everybody all the time. That there is
(02:58):
a happy medium. But I think right now people are
just so scared by cancel culture that they're just they're
going too far into the silence, or they're making other
people think that they have to be silent, you know,
like the speech police type people.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, yeah, doctor Cloyd. Do you know how many creative
people from musicians to actors to even directors are telling
me when I say, are you going to step out
and speak? Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm good.
I'm good. And it's like, don't say that. Don't be
afraid of cancel culture, because I mean, it's like, we've
got to be able to keep moving forward here. That's
who we are.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Totally. And you know, though, to be honest, I didn't
even get this. As a clinical psychologist. I used to
just do a lot of self censoring because I had
a lot of big relationships in the media and you know,
big business and getting a PhD in clinical psychology in
New York, there's a lot of opinions, you know that
you have to just keep to yourself, and so I
just had done that so often without even realizing the
(03:56):
toll it was taking. And then one day, with some
COVID issues, I had just had enough and I spoke
up and I was like, wow, like this is different.
You know, there's cognitive benefits, there's emotional regulation benefits, all
these you know, kind of network issues, and I said, wow,
how could I have missed this that, like, of course
(04:17):
we need to be authentic.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I would like to know how many families have been
damaged by this, because I mean, first of all, we
always called my sister she was mouth. That was her
name in the family. She would say things right off
the top of her head. And what do you say
right here in your book? Relax your body and your mouth,
Just relax it. But the thing about it is, though,
when you talk about the mental health issues here, how
many families are broken up and they're not going back.
That is a mental health issue that needs to come together.
(04:42):
Because we've all been family. We can't break up and
not see each other again totally.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
And so that gets into this whole confusion around the
phrase that words are violence. That's why I think many
families are getting broken up. And there's something called the
five d's, which is different on social media, disinviting a speaker,
declining to date, dropping contact altogether in real life, or
just distancing contact in real life. And there's a certain
(05:09):
group of people that are statistically a lot more likely
to do that over political differences. And that same group
of people is also statistically a lot more likely to
endorse political violence against people that disagree with them. And
so I think that you're really onto something there of
(05:29):
noticing that there's a rift in families, and it's because
of this whole idea that people have about you know,
words or violence. And if you know my parents voted
for somebody I didn't like, then I just have to
uproot them out of my life. And I really believe
they mean well, but they're misguided. They think that this
(05:50):
is the road to a healthier, compassionate society. And I
want them to know that cutting off dialogue is actually
the worst thing we can do. If we want to
have a peaceful, harmonious society, we have to learn how
to have disagreements but still have respect for one another.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Please do not move. There's more with doctor Chloe Carmichael
coming up next the name of a book. Can I
say that we're back with doctor Chloe Carmichael. What is
the best way to handle this, Doctor Chloe in the
way of when somebody does come at you with something
that you don't believe in. Because we all know the
political world, and because I'm very quick to say, well,
I understand your point of view, I want to listen
(06:29):
to your point of view because I think you've got
something I need to learn. And when I learned from
that you have to take the time to listen to
my side of the story. Am I am I? Am
I a fire starter?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
No, No, that's perfect. I love it because, as you said,
if somebody comes at you with something that you disagree with,
by definition, you know you have you expressed yourself, are
coming at them with something that they disagree with. So
it goes both ways. So I think what's helpful. There's
a technique in the book called reflective listening. Yeah, so
what you do then, and is you just say, hey, look,
I think think we see this issue very differently, but
(07:02):
I want to make sure we're not talking past each
other because did you know that when people's heart rate
goes above one hundred beats per minute, which it often
does in heated discussions, they literally cognitively cannot comprehend fully
and accurately what the other person is saying. So to
solve that, you say, let's do the reflective listening technique.
You say what you believe, and then I will just
(07:24):
repeat it back to you, recap it, make sure I
really got it, and when you feel sure that I
truly heard you, then I'll do the same thing and
you recap it back to me, and then we'll see
just where our differences are. So step one there is
to just make sure you're really truly hearing each other
and that everybody's getting a chance to talk.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
You know, doctor, I'm that guy when somebody comes at
me and it raises my blood pressure like that and
my heart rate up there like that, the first thing
that I do is I go mum. And they'll sit
there and say, oh, you're going to go quiet on me,
and my answer is no, I'm meditating. Would you like
me to show you how to meditate so that we
can have a real peaceful conversation here, And I'm serious
about that. I'll show you how to meditate.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's so good. And then I think
another thing that helps in those conversations is to explain
to someone that you want the goal of the conversation
not to be for one person to win or lose,
or even to be persuaded. But how about if we
try to figure out a whether we actually have a
disagreement on objective facts, like something that could be looked
(08:27):
up and determined or be whether we agree upon the facts,
but we just simply interpret them and evaluate them differently,
Because that way we're making it about information and getting
to know each other rather than about you know, quote
winning or losing.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
God, I want to bring up this subject and I
don't know how to bring it up. Because you're a doctor,
I can bring it up, but at the same time,
I don't want to offend anybody. I did not know
who Charlie Kirk was. But when I went in there
and I watched all the videos and I saw that
he was a listener first, Oh my god, that opened
up my eyes. And that's that's where I want to study.
I want to be that guy that listens to everything
(09:05):
that is going right or wrong. It's cross eyed, it
doesn't matter. Just be the listener first. And then if
you need to say something, put this book in your
heart and grow with it and do it in a
really very well faithful as well as a loving way.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, totally, I think you're really onto something there. And
you know, Charlie Kirk was totally a master at that,
of course, and you know, it's sad the way that
so many people really vilified him. But one of the
things you know that I think he also did is
he would try to focus on something about the person speaking. Yep,
that was actually likable, you know. I mean, so even
(09:41):
if you totally disagree with what the person is saying,
to just think to yourself, like, well, you know, this
is probably actually a really intelligent person, or this is
actually probably a very well intentioned person. And that's how
he was able to keep rapport with people, and like
you said, to listen to them and then that pounce
on them with his opinion, but oftentimes there's respond to
them with a question, and that was like really helpful
(10:03):
because they realized he wasn't just trying to talk at them,
he was truly trying to have a dialogue.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
You bring up three common objections? Whoa wait a second,
that means I'm relating with somebody. Three common objections to
free speech? You mean we've got something in common here.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Totally, So yeah, like common you know, well intentioned objections
to free speech or things like well what about misinformation?
And you know, actually, as I explain, we have better
quality information when we can have open debate and dialogue. Right,
you know, so if somebody's wrong, great, you know, expose them,
talk about it. But pushing someone underground actually only makes
(10:41):
it harder, you know, to debunk them. Another common objection
is you know, well, what about hate speech and bullying?
And interestingly, you know, violence actually increases when dialogue ceases.
And so if people are saying things you know that
you think are hateful or mean or whatever, telling them
to shut up is only going to like make the
(11:02):
problem worse. It's so much better if we can invite
them to share, talk it through, even agree to disagree.
And that doesn't mean we have to tolerate abuse. But I
just think in this you know, words of violence day
and age, people will label anything as hate speech and bullying,
and so when people are truly just sitting there at
the dinner table having a conversation, I think, you know,
(11:25):
to flip it on its head, the hate speech or
bully is the person who's trying to shut the other
people up and prevent them from expressing themselves.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Don't you think that hate speech and bullying can actually
begin sometimes innocently in the way that two people can
be over in the corner having a conversation. They happen
to look at somebody and they're going, oh, they're talking
about me. Oh my god, I hate these people. I
know they're talking about me. They looked at me. How
do we get beyond that. I mean, seriously, we're not
talking about you. We were talking about McDonald's, and it's like,
I'm so sorry that we looked up. But we are
(11:54):
in that generation where everybody thinks we're talking about them.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, you know, I mean I feel like we could
talk all day long about that Moneuly. I know we
got to wrap up here soon, but that's a good question.
I think we'll pick that one up next time. I
love it.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Well, where can we go to find out more information
about you?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
I would love that. Go to free Speech today dot com.
At free Speech today dot com, you can get my book,
which is can I say that Why free speech matters
and how to use it fearlessly. You can connect with
me on social media all kinds of other stuff at
freespeech today dot com.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Well, please come back to this show any time in
the future. The door is always going to be open
for you. A doctor.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Oh, thank you so much, Aero. I'd love that.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Will you be brilliant today you too?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Thanks again, Bye bye,
It's all in one location. Ero dot net A r
r oe dot net. I've talked about hosting seventeen different
podcasts for how many years, and it's been like, well,
where are they at? I don't know, just google it. Well,
that's not a good idea ero dot net, A r
r oe dot net. Good morning, doctor, How are you
doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hey, I'm great, Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
You do realize how important this book is, right because
we are in an age where we've got a bunch
of introverts taking on people that are extroverts, and somewhere
in the middle there's silence and it's like, oh, but
the doctor is up to something, Miss Chloe.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yes, I think that's very well said. I'm glad that
the topic clicks for you.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Well, it clicks with me because I've dedicated my soul
to being in the public eye. But the problem is
is I'm getting a lot of shrug shoulders, eyes that
are rolling, people that would rather return to their smartphone.
And when I stepped inside your pages, I'm going, this
is the answer, this is what I've actually been looking for,
because now I can utilize the tools and Doctor Chloe
can step through that door and help these that are
(01:01):
going whenever you only live once.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Well, thanks, Erro, I'm so glad to hear that. I'm
glad you're excited about the topic.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Well, I mean your research in here is spot on.
When you talk about eighty four percent of Americans believe that,
you know, is that we're talking cancel culture, We're talking censorship,
We're talking about serious issues. Eighty four percent of Americans
know what's going on. But what are we doing about it?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, I think that they know what's going on, but
they think that the safe move then is to just
you know, stay quiet. And so my book is to
help them realize that that's actually not the safe thing.
That there's a mental health cost to stifling yourself, you know, repressions, depression, denial,
actually loneliness as well, when we are you know, masking
(01:49):
our true selves from people. So I want them to
understand that if we really care about mental health, that
doesn't mean everybody's shut up and be in a safe space.
It means actually we learn how to be ourselves and
let other people be themselves.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
How many people had my dad for a dad who
would look at me straight in the eye and say,
do not speak unless you're spoken to and it's like,
oh okay, and then I got into radio boy. I
didn't listen to him, did I?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well, yeah, you have it so special skill set. They're errow.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I mean, because I mean you're talking about the five
tools of self restraint. Oh my god, this is so
what's going on in the world. Because people are more
apt to thinking, I've got a voice, I can say
whatever I want. Now restrain it so I can listen
to you, so I can patiently sit here and together
we can create a solution.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Exactly. So I want people to understand that too, is
that you know, we're not talking about having no filter here,
that there's a difference between self censorship, which is where
you're really holding back on true things that actually matter
to you in terms of your values, versus you know,
healthy self restraint, like you don't have to like literally
say everything to everybody all the time. That there is
(02:58):
a happy medium. But I think right now people are
just so scared by cancel culture that they're just they're
going too far into the silence, or they're making other
people think that they have to be silent, you know,
like the speech police type people.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, yeah, doctor Cloyd. Do you know how many creative
people from musicians to actors to even directors are telling
me when I say, are you going to step out
and speak? Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm good.
I'm good. And it's like, don't say that. Don't be
afraid of cancel culture, because I mean, it's like, we've
got to be able to keep moving forward here. That's
who we are.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Totally. And you know, though, to be honest, I didn't
even get this. As a clinical psychologist. I used to
just do a lot of self censoring because I had
a lot of big relationships in the media and you know,
big business and getting a PhD in clinical psychology in
New York, there's a lot of opinions, you know that
you have to just keep to yourself, and so I
just had done that so often without even realizing the
(03:56):
toll it was taking. And then one day, with some
COVID issues, I had just had enough and I spoke
up and I was like, wow, like this is different.
You know, there's cognitive benefits, there's emotional regulation benefits, all
these you know, kind of network issues, and I said, wow,
how could I have missed this that, like, of course
(04:17):
we need to be authentic.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I would like to know how many families have been
damaged by this, because I mean, first of all, we
always called my sister she was mouth. That was her
name in the family. She would say things right off
the top of her head. And what do you say
right here in your book? Relax your body and your mouth,
Just relax it. But the thing about it is, though,
when you talk about the mental health issues here, how
many families are broken up and they're not going back.
That is a mental health issue that needs to come together.
(04:42):
Because we've all been family. We can't break up and
not see each other again totally.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
And so that gets into this whole confusion around the
phrase that words are violence. That's why I think many
families are getting broken up. And there's something called the
five d's, which is different on social media, disinviting a speaker,
declining to date, dropping contact altogether in real life, or
just distancing contact in real life. And there's a certain
(05:09):
group of people that are statistically a lot more likely
to do that over political differences. And that same group
of people is also statistically a lot more likely to
endorse political violence against people that disagree with them. And
so I think that you're really onto something there of
(05:29):
noticing that there's a rift in families, and it's because
of this whole idea that people have about you know,
words or violence. And if you know my parents voted
for somebody I didn't like, then I just have to
uproot them out of my life. And I really believe
they mean well, but they're misguided. They think that this
(05:50):
is the road to a healthier, compassionate society. And I
want them to know that cutting off dialogue is actually
the worst thing we can do. If we want to
have a peaceful, harmonious society, we have to learn how
to have disagreements but still have respect for one another.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Please do not move. There's more with doctor Chloe Carmichael
coming up next the name of a book. Can I
say that we're back with doctor Chloe Carmichael. What is
the best way to handle this, Doctor Chloe in the
way of when somebody does come at you with something
that you don't believe in. Because we all know the
political world, and because I'm very quick to say, well,
I understand your point of view, I want to listen
(06:29):
to your point of view because I think you've got
something I need to learn. And when I learned from
that you have to take the time to listen to
my side of the story. Am I am I? Am
I a fire starter?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
No, No, that's perfect. I love it because, as you said,
if somebody comes at you with something that you disagree with,
by definition, you know you have you expressed yourself, are
coming at them with something that they disagree with. So
it goes both ways. So I think what's helpful. There's
a technique in the book called reflective listening. Yeah, so
what you do then, and is you just say, hey, look,
I think think we see this issue very differently, but
(07:02):
I want to make sure we're not talking past each
other because did you know that when people's heart rate
goes above one hundred beats per minute, which it often
does in heated discussions, they literally cognitively cannot comprehend fully
and accurately what the other person is saying. So to
solve that, you say, let's do the reflective listening technique.
You say what you believe, and then I will just
(07:24):
repeat it back to you, recap it, make sure I
really got it, and when you feel sure that I
truly heard you, then I'll do the same thing and
you recap it back to me, and then we'll see
just where our differences are. So step one there is
to just make sure you're really truly hearing each other
and that everybody's getting a chance to talk.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
You know, doctor, I'm that guy when somebody comes at
me and it raises my blood pressure like that and
my heart rate up there like that, the first thing
that I do is I go mum. And they'll sit
there and say, oh, you're going to go quiet on me,
and my answer is no, I'm meditating. Would you like
me to show you how to meditate so that we
can have a real peaceful conversation here, And I'm serious
about that. I'll show you how to meditate.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's so good. And then I think
another thing that helps in those conversations is to explain
to someone that you want the goal of the conversation
not to be for one person to win or lose,
or even to be persuaded. But how about if we
try to figure out a whether we actually have a
disagreement on objective facts, like something that could be looked
(08:27):
up and determined or be whether we agree upon the facts,
but we just simply interpret them and evaluate them differently,
Because that way we're making it about information and getting
to know each other rather than about you know, quote
winning or losing.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
God, I want to bring up this subject and I
don't know how to bring it up. Because you're a doctor,
I can bring it up, but at the same time,
I don't want to offend anybody. I did not know
who Charlie Kirk was. But when I went in there
and I watched all the videos and I saw that
he was a listener first, Oh my god, that opened
up my eyes. And that's that's where I want to study.
I want to be that guy that listens to everything
(09:05):
that is going right or wrong. It's cross eyed, it
doesn't matter. Just be the listener first. And then if
you need to say something, put this book in your
heart and grow with it and do it in a
really very well faithful as well as a loving way.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, totally, I think you're really onto something there. And
you know, Charlie Kirk was totally a master at that,
of course, and you know, it's sad the way that
so many people really vilified him. But one of the
things you know that I think he also did is
he would try to focus on something about the person speaking. Yep,
that was actually likable, you know. I mean, so even
(09:41):
if you totally disagree with what the person is saying,
to just think to yourself, like, well, you know, this
is probably actually a really intelligent person, or this is
actually probably a very well intentioned person. And that's how
he was able to keep rapport with people, and like
you said, to listen to them and then that pounce
on them with his opinion, but oftentimes there's respond to
them with a question, and that was like really helpful
(10:03):
because they realized he wasn't just trying to talk at them,
he was truly trying to have a dialogue.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
You bring up three common objections? Whoa wait a second,
that means I'm relating with somebody. Three common objections to
free speech? You mean we've got something in common here.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Totally, So yeah, like common you know, well intentioned objections
to free speech or things like well what about misinformation?
And you know, actually, as I explain, we have better
quality information when we can have open debate and dialogue. Right,
you know, so if somebody's wrong, great, you know, expose them,
talk about it. But pushing someone underground actually only makes
(10:41):
it harder, you know, to debunk them. Another common objection
is you know, well, what about hate speech and bullying?
And interestingly, you know, violence actually increases when dialogue ceases.
And so if people are saying things you know that
you think are hateful or mean or whatever, telling them
to shut up is only going to like make the
(11:02):
problem worse. It's so much better if we can invite
them to share, talk it through, even agree to disagree.
And that doesn't mean we have to tolerate abuse. But I
just think in this you know, words of violence day
and age, people will label anything as hate speech and bullying,
and so when people are truly just sitting there at
the dinner table having a conversation, I think, you know,
(11:25):
to flip it on its head, the hate speech or
bully is the person who's trying to shut the other
people up and prevent them from expressing themselves.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Don't you think that hate speech and bullying can actually
begin sometimes innocently in the way that two people can
be over in the corner having a conversation. They happen
to look at somebody and they're going, oh, they're talking
about me. Oh my god, I hate these people. I
know they're talking about me. They looked at me. How
do we get beyond that. I mean, seriously, we're not
talking about you. We were talking about McDonald's, and it's like,
I'm so sorry that we looked up. But we are
(11:54):
in that generation where everybody thinks we're talking about them.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, you know, I mean I feel like we could
talk all day long about that Moneuly. I know we
got to wrap up here soon, but that's a good question.
I think we'll pick that one up next time. I
love it.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Well, where can we go to find out more information
about you?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
I would love that. Go to free Speech today dot com.
At free Speech today dot com, you can get my book,
which is can I say that Why free speech matters
and how to use it fearlessly. You can connect with
me on social media all kinds of other stuff at
freespeech today dot com.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Well, please come back to this show any time in
the future. The door is always going to be open
for you. A doctor.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Oh, thank you so much, Aero. I'd love that.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Will you be brilliant today you too?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Thanks again, Bye bye,
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