November 27, 2025 • 12 mins
LA entrepreneur Judi Leib discovered this firsthand when her son faced a serious medical crisis. Overwhelmed with stress and feeling helpless, she turned to an unexpected source of comfort: baking challah bread. The repetitive kneading, the focus required, the sensory experience - it became her therapy.
That personal healing journey became Challah and Soul, where Judi now teaches stressed-out Angelenos (from corporate executives to busy moms) how to find calm through bread-making.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.
That personal healing journey became Challah and Soul, where Judi now teaches stressed-out Angelenos (from corporate executives to busy moms) how to find calm through bread-making.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've been blessed with the opportunity to share conversations with
each and every person who has appeared on NBC's The
Voice from twenty sixteen to this present day. We now
have it all on one podcast, that Voice. It's on
Arrow dot net A R r Oe dot Net. How's
everybody doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Good morning? Great?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Your mourning?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
How are you guys in the way of stepping out
now with bringing forward an idea that even my grandparents
would do in the kitchen. But the thing is is
that they never showed us what you're about. Ready to
explain to us how unbelievable that needing bread is to
the mind, body as well as soul. And I say
soul because I mean it really does get deep into
(00:44):
your body.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
I like to say that when you're needing bread, you
are needing your needs literally, and you've got to put
what's in your soul and in your heart into your bread.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Don't you think that what you're doing right now is
really kind of reintroducing people to the need of their hands.
Because I'm that guy that steps into his own kitchen
as a home chef. I like washing dishes with my
own hands. I like doing things with my own hands.
So when I found out about kneading bread, I'm going,
of course, this is where we all need to be,
where we're being led back to use your hands as
(01:21):
the tools. They are correct, correct, But it also involves
the rest of your mind, body, and soul. I mean,
I mean, I can't imagine what how your legs get involved,
how your back gets involved. And basically it's the universe
saying use your entire self because the bread that you
make will feed thousands if you really put your mind
(01:41):
to it.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I feel that bread is something when you are when
you are making something with your hands, you are also
making it with your whole body. Oh boy, yeah, and
you're giving it. You're giving You're giving a piece of yourself,
uh to when you the people that you serve on
your table, the people in your family or or even
(02:05):
in the community, which is so important.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Now.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
One of the things that I was shocked by, and
I'm not the only one, because you know how radio
people are. We all think that we're in the know.
But the thing is is that I didn't realize that
there is a physical science to the benefits of neating bread.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
I you're teaching us something I had not heard anything
about the physical science, so that that's amazing, but it
certainly makes sense.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, because you're working all the ingredients. And this is
this is my theory in life. For Mantra, the seed
becomes the tree, the tree becomes the sheet of paper
for the poet who writes the poetry that affects people's lives.
I believe that bread is the same way as you
into and you throw things into it, you are now
building something that will affect other people and beyond.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
True true Sean, I think you.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Well eron. I want to tell you when you when
you add when you flower has a significance. How the
flower is made, where it comes from, you know, the yeast,
the water, the oil, everything that you put into just
making a piece making bread is So that's where I
feel that it is. It is a part of the
(03:19):
mental and physical part of what we do as humans
and how important it is.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
So are we ripping off the system when we just
hit the grocery store. We grab some of that yeast
and we throw some flour in there. Because I feel
like there should be an aging process here, which is
a lesson in life that we should all learn.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
I think I think even the process of going to
the grocery store and selecting the flour that you're going
to use, selecting the brand instant versus you know, regular
yeast whatever. I think even that is a spiritual experience
and it all goes back to our philosophy of when
(04:00):
you make bread and then you put it on your
table and you break bread with people that you have
welcomed into your home in a way that gets them
to understand that they belong to be at your table.
It just is a full circle moment.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, and you're inviting people, make this a part of
your family, make this a part of your neighborhood. I
because we have chili cookoffs inside this for us, why
not have a bread cookoff as well.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I think that's a great idea, and we do. We
do Holla bakes often really where we invite people into
learn how to make the dough, what goes into the dough,
the different braids of the dough.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Speaking of those braids, I'm glad that you took it
there because I grew up in Montana. My mother she
was the old fashioned mom who grew up in the
during the World War One and World War II era,
and she made her own bread. Now, the way that
I got involved wasn't that she let me inside the
kitchen to do that. She gave me Plato. She said,
go make your bread with this. And so when when
I saw braiding in this, I'm going, oh my god,
(04:57):
that's a trip back to my past.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Well, I can tell you as a teacher of twenty
one years, giving a child a piece of Plato, it
also helps them with tactile. It helps to build their
muscles in their hands, which is about writing. It is creative,
It makes you think, it makes you want to do more,
(05:22):
it makes you add more color. So I love that.
I love that your mother gave you a piece of Plato.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Well, you're speaking my street when you say that it
strengthens your hands for writing, because I've been a daily
writer all the way back to July of nineteen ninety four.
And when you get those cramps in your hands, you've
got to do those exercises to keep them sturdy and stuff,
because your imagination is not going to settle for an excuse.
It needs to be emptied and it's going to require
your hands. And I think kneading dough is a great
(05:48):
place to kind of get that little bit of zin
going on so that you can feed that imagination.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Absolutely absolutely, and not only that, but the oh and
making bread is an art, just like writing is an art,
and it is very emotional.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And getting all of that out.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Please do not move. There's more with Judy and Shonda
coming up next, Needing bread. It's more than just something
you put on a dinner table. Let's get back to
Judy and Shonda. What about all of those stories where
everybody says, no, the only way to make real bread
is that you've got to get something from somebody else
and and and it's and and and people aren't so
(06:29):
open to sharing. You know, it's like kumbacha. What you know,
people will not will not give you that. You know
that that that little bit of something that's gonna make
your kombacha that's so much better because you got to
grow your own.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Well, I don't know if you have to grow your own.
I mean there's as we are all experiencing. We talk
about farm to table, we talk about going to the
co op, to the farmer's market.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
So again, when you go and.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Purchase from a farmer's market, you're giving back to people
who are are putting their soul into growing the products
that you're using and are creating a livelihood for their
family as well. But the other thing that you put
in that is unique to you, so you are growing
your own is your heart, your soul. I always say
(07:15):
the secret and gaudy and all of my cooking is
the love.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Don't you think that what you're doing right now, you're
you're almost like that precursor of you know, it could
be six months from now, it could be a year
from now, and people are going to be talking about
how they got into knating bread and making their own
bread at home. And it's and it's all going to
come back to you too, because you took the time
to bring it up, to talk about it. Because we
all know of those books of motivation. We all know
of those things where it's like, okay, where did you
(07:40):
go to get this inspiration? Well, I was reading a
book one day and then I couldn't stop talking about it,
and all of a sudden, you have all these people
that are making their own bread.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Very good point. Go ahead, Shanda, I'm sorry, didn't mean
it to go over.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I want to say that when you make, when you make,
when you're when we're talking about making bread. You're also
talking about those handed down traditions. You talked about your mother, right,
and how she didn't give you You remember her making bread?
Do you remember walking into the walking into the house
and smelling what that house smelled like when that bread
(08:17):
was made. And this is the reason why Hollandsoul our
mission is food storytelling education is because those stories, those
traditions of passing down those that bread making, whether it's
sour dough. I mean, Judy is the chef. So I
(08:38):
will just tell you my mom made. My mom made
what we called she called them hot rolls, which is
basically like a form of like cinnamon rolls, you remember,
And she made butter rolls.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
But she made different kinds of bread.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
She made wheat bread, she made you know, just regular bread,
but she also added spices and seasonings and the little
things that she did how she made it rise or
if she didn't make it right. Also in African American
we use we also do hot hot water corn bread.
So there's so many different but it's but it really
(09:13):
is about how important it is to take these take
these stories and start teaching your children and the different
ways of making bread, and how important it is.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Well, see, and I look at something like that and
I instantly think of that, there's no such thing as
an overripe banana. Make bread. That's exactly what goes inside
my heart. Go get that overripe banana and make some bread.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
One hundred percent, one hundred percent we agree.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
And don't you think that when when you talk about
you know, how the community really kind of comes together
to make bread. And that's the one thing I always
like it. From the farmer's market all the way down.
It really takes a community to make a loaf of
bread because all of those ingredients requires somebody did something
in order for you to have it.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Right, right exactly, And that that kind it takes us
back to the mission of holl And Soul because our
work through food, storytelling and education is about bringing communities,
in particular marginalized and multi ethnic communities back into alliance
to support each other and fight for each other and
fight against hate. So it's all, like I said before,
(10:18):
a full circle moment for us.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Let me ask you this question only because this is
going to show off my age. Mom would make the bread,
she would put it the seller so it wouldn't spoil.
Do you see us growing back into that era again,
to where we're going to get back to canning. We're
going to get back to making our own bread, stocking
up and making sure that everything is filled down there.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
I sure hope. So, I mean, I agree with you.
We're obviously the same age because I do remember my
mom and my grandmother canning and you know, at the
end of the summer, get those tomatoes taking care of
so that you have them throughout the winter, or that
kind of thing. And again, I think that takes us
back to community, takes us back to working together to
(10:59):
make these things happen, and certainly that's something that we
need right now, is learning how to work together again
and to support each other again.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I love the way that you really bring up yoga
as part of this. You don't have to go to
a yoga class in order to do this, which really
kind of takes me back to the type of meditation
that I study, which is called nidra, and nidra you
can be standing up and do meditation, and when I
see needing bread and things, I'm thinking, this is exactly
what I have been trained to do. Go into the moment,
become a part of the atmosphere and the universe, become
(11:29):
part of it, don't dominate.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
It, right exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Wow, Where can people go to find out more about
what you're doing, because I mean, there's got to be
a place where people can sit down and digest it
at their own speed and level, because you're talking about
something so personal. It really is a personal thing to
make bread.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Absolutely the best place to go to get information about
us is our website, which is full us Cha ll
ah andsoul dot org and we are hauling soul across
all social media.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
You got to come back to this show. Either that
or You've got to create a podcast so that when
I'm at work or I'm driving down a road here
in Charlotte, I can sit there and listen to it
and with the way that you guys, you know, kind
of go into it, I can envision it. I can
smell it, which I don't know how you guys are
doing that, but you are doing it.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Absolutely, podcast is definitely on our head list.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I can't wait. I can't well. Please come back to
this show anytime in the future. The door is always
going to be open for you.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Thank you so much, Erah. We appreciate you. Er, we
appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Be brilliant today.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Okay, yeah you too. Excellent
I've been blessed with the opportunity to share conversations with
each and every person who has appeared on NBC's The
Voice from twenty sixteen to this present day. We now
have it all on one podcast, that Voice. It's on
Arrow dot net A R r Oe dot Net. How's
everybody doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Good morning? Great?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Your mourning?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
How are you guys in the way of stepping out
now with bringing forward an idea that even my grandparents
would do in the kitchen. But the thing is is
that they never showed us what you're about. Ready to
explain to us how unbelievable that needing bread is to
the mind, body as well as soul. And I say
soul because I mean it really does get deep into
(00:44):
your body.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
I like to say that when you're needing bread, you
are needing your needs literally, and you've got to put
what's in your soul and in your heart into your bread.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Don't you think that what you're doing right now is
really kind of reintroducing people to the need of their hands.
Because I'm that guy that steps into his own kitchen
as a home chef. I like washing dishes with my
own hands. I like doing things with my own hands.
So when I found out about kneading bread, I'm going,
of course, this is where we all need to be,
where we're being led back to use your hands as
(01:21):
the tools. They are correct, correct, But it also involves
the rest of your mind, body, and soul. I mean,
I mean, I can't imagine what how your legs get involved,
how your back gets involved. And basically it's the universe
saying use your entire self because the bread that you
make will feed thousands if you really put your mind
(01:41):
to it.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I feel that bread is something when you are when
you are making something with your hands, you are also
making it with your whole body. Oh boy, yeah, and
you're giving it. You're giving You're giving a piece of yourself,
uh to when you the people that you serve on
your table, the people in your family or or even
(02:05):
in the community, which is so important.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Now.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
One of the things that I was shocked by, and
I'm not the only one, because you know how radio
people are. We all think that we're in the know.
But the thing is is that I didn't realize that
there is a physical science to the benefits of neating bread.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
I you're teaching us something I had not heard anything
about the physical science, so that that's amazing, but it
certainly makes sense.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, because you're working all the ingredients. And this is
this is my theory in life. For Mantra, the seed
becomes the tree, the tree becomes the sheet of paper
for the poet who writes the poetry that affects people's lives.
I believe that bread is the same way as you
into and you throw things into it, you are now
building something that will affect other people and beyond.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
True true Sean, I think you.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Well eron. I want to tell you when you when
you add when you flower has a significance. How the
flower is made, where it comes from, you know, the yeast,
the water, the oil, everything that you put into just
making a piece making bread is So that's where I
feel that it is. It is a part of the
(03:19):
mental and physical part of what we do as humans
and how important it is.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
So are we ripping off the system when we just
hit the grocery store. We grab some of that yeast
and we throw some flour in there. Because I feel
like there should be an aging process here, which is
a lesson in life that we should all learn.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
I think I think even the process of going to
the grocery store and selecting the flour that you're going
to use, selecting the brand instant versus you know, regular
yeast whatever. I think even that is a spiritual experience
and it all goes back to our philosophy of when
(04:00):
you make bread and then you put it on your
table and you break bread with people that you have
welcomed into your home in a way that gets them
to understand that they belong to be at your table.
It just is a full circle moment.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, and you're inviting people, make this a part of
your family, make this a part of your neighborhood. I
because we have chili cookoffs inside this for us, why
not have a bread cookoff as well.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
I think that's a great idea, and we do. We
do Holla bakes often really where we invite people into
learn how to make the dough, what goes into the dough,
the different braids of the dough.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Speaking of those braids, I'm glad that you took it
there because I grew up in Montana. My mother she
was the old fashioned mom who grew up in the
during the World War One and World War II era,
and she made her own bread. Now, the way that
I got involved wasn't that she let me inside the
kitchen to do that. She gave me Plato. She said,
go make your bread with this. And so when when
I saw braiding in this, I'm going, oh my god,
(04:57):
that's a trip back to my past.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Well, I can tell you as a teacher of twenty
one years, giving a child a piece of Plato, it
also helps them with tactile. It helps to build their
muscles in their hands, which is about writing. It is creative,
It makes you think, it makes you want to do more,
(05:22):
it makes you add more color. So I love that.
I love that your mother gave you a piece of Plato.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Well, you're speaking my street when you say that it
strengthens your hands for writing, because I've been a daily
writer all the way back to July of nineteen ninety four.
And when you get those cramps in your hands, you've
got to do those exercises to keep them sturdy and stuff,
because your imagination is not going to settle for an excuse.
It needs to be emptied and it's going to require
your hands. And I think kneading dough is a great
(05:48):
place to kind of get that little bit of zin
going on so that you can feed that imagination.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Absolutely absolutely, and not only that, but the oh and
making bread is an art, just like writing is an art,
and it is very emotional.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And getting all of that out.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Please do not move. There's more with Judy and Shonda
coming up next, Needing bread. It's more than just something
you put on a dinner table. Let's get back to
Judy and Shonda. What about all of those stories where
everybody says, no, the only way to make real bread
is that you've got to get something from somebody else
and and and it's and and and people aren't so
(06:29):
open to sharing. You know, it's like kumbacha. What you know,
people will not will not give you that. You know
that that that little bit of something that's gonna make
your kombacha that's so much better because you got to
grow your own.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Well, I don't know if you have to grow your own.
I mean there's as we are all experiencing. We talk
about farm to table, we talk about going to the
co op, to the farmer's market.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
So again, when you go and.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Purchase from a farmer's market, you're giving back to people
who are are putting their soul into growing the products
that you're using and are creating a livelihood for their
family as well. But the other thing that you put
in that is unique to you, so you are growing
your own is your heart, your soul. I always say
(07:15):
the secret and gaudy and all of my cooking is
the love.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Don't you think that what you're doing right now, you're
you're almost like that precursor of you know, it could
be six months from now, it could be a year
from now, and people are going to be talking about
how they got into knating bread and making their own
bread at home. And it's and it's all going to
come back to you too, because you took the time
to bring it up, to talk about it. Because we
all know of those books of motivation. We all know
of those things where it's like, okay, where did you
(07:40):
go to get this inspiration? Well, I was reading a
book one day and then I couldn't stop talking about it,
and all of a sudden, you have all these people
that are making their own bread.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Very good point. Go ahead, Shanda, I'm sorry, didn't mean
it to go over.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I want to say that when you make, when you make,
when you're when we're talking about making bread. You're also
talking about those handed down traditions. You talked about your mother, right,
and how she didn't give you You remember her making bread?
Do you remember walking into the walking into the house
and smelling what that house smelled like when that bread
(08:17):
was made. And this is the reason why Hollandsoul our
mission is food storytelling education is because those stories, those
traditions of passing down those that bread making, whether it's
sour dough. I mean, Judy is the chef. So I
(08:38):
will just tell you my mom made. My mom made
what we called she called them hot rolls, which is
basically like a form of like cinnamon rolls, you remember,
And she made butter rolls.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
But she made different kinds of bread.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
She made wheat bread, she made you know, just regular bread,
but she also added spices and seasonings and the little
things that she did how she made it rise or
if she didn't make it right. Also in African American
we use we also do hot hot water corn bread.
So there's so many different but it's but it really
(09:13):
is about how important it is to take these take
these stories and start teaching your children and the different
ways of making bread, and how important it is.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Well, see, and I look at something like that and
I instantly think of that, there's no such thing as
an overripe banana. Make bread. That's exactly what goes inside
my heart. Go get that overripe banana and make some bread.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
One hundred percent, one hundred percent we agree.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
And don't you think that when when you talk about
you know, how the community really kind of comes together
to make bread. And that's the one thing I always
like it. From the farmer's market all the way down.
It really takes a community to make a loaf of
bread because all of those ingredients requires somebody did something
in order for you to have it.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Right, right exactly, And that that kind it takes us
back to the mission of holl And Soul because our
work through food, storytelling and education is about bringing communities,
in particular marginalized and multi ethnic communities back into alliance
to support each other and fight for each other and
fight against hate. So it's all, like I said before,
(10:18):
a full circle moment for us.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Let me ask you this question only because this is
going to show off my age. Mom would make the bread,
she would put it the seller so it wouldn't spoil.
Do you see us growing back into that era again,
to where we're going to get back to canning. We're
going to get back to making our own bread, stocking
up and making sure that everything is filled down there.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
I sure hope. So, I mean, I agree with you.
We're obviously the same age because I do remember my
mom and my grandmother canning and you know, at the
end of the summer, get those tomatoes taking care of
so that you have them throughout the winter, or that
kind of thing. And again, I think that takes us
back to community, takes us back to working together to
(10:59):
make these things happen, and certainly that's something that we
need right now, is learning how to work together again
and to support each other again.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I love the way that you really bring up yoga
as part of this. You don't have to go to
a yoga class in order to do this, which really
kind of takes me back to the type of meditation
that I study, which is called nidra, and nidra you
can be standing up and do meditation, and when I
see needing bread and things, I'm thinking, this is exactly
what I have been trained to do. Go into the moment,
become a part of the atmosphere and the universe, become
(11:29):
part of it, don't dominate.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
It, right exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Wow, Where can people go to find out more about
what you're doing, because I mean, there's got to be
a place where people can sit down and digest it
at their own speed and level, because you're talking about
something so personal. It really is a personal thing to
make bread.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Absolutely the best place to go to get information about
us is our website, which is full us Cha ll
ah andsoul dot org and we are hauling soul across
all social media.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
You got to come back to this show. Either that
or You've got to create a podcast so that when
I'm at work or I'm driving down a road here
in Charlotte, I can sit there and listen to it
and with the way that you guys, you know, kind
of go into it, I can envision it. I can
smell it, which I don't know how you guys are
doing that, but you are doing it.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Absolutely, podcast is definitely on our head list.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I can't wait. I can't well. Please come back to
this show anytime in the future. The door is always
going to be open for you.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Thank you so much, Erah. We appreciate you. Er, we
appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Be brilliant today.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Okay, yeah you too. Excellent
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