May 31, 2025 • 19 mins
Hosted by award-winning filmmaker Dan Bush, Alive Again is a weekly series featuring extraordinary stories from people who faced death-and came back changed. From near-death experiences to near-fatal accidents and moments of profound crisis, each episode dives into the transformation that happens on the other side of survival. Told in their own words, these first-hand accounts explore not just what happened in the moment, but how everything changed after: perspectives, priorities, purpose.
Some stories are miraculous. Others are brutal. All of them are unforgettable. Our mission is to find, explore, and share these stories to remind us all of our shared human condition. If you've ever wondered what happens when you don't die- this show is for you.
If you have a transformative near-death experience to share, we'd love to hear your story. Please email us at aliveagainproject@gmail.com
EPISODES AVAILABLE HERE:
Https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-alive-again-274161390/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.
Some stories are miraculous. Others are brutal. All of them are unforgettable. Our mission is to find, explore, and share these stories to remind us all of our shared human condition. If you've ever wondered what happens when you don't die- this show is for you.
If you have a transformative near-death experience to share, we'd love to hear your story. Please email us at aliveagainproject@gmail.com
EPISODES AVAILABLE HERE:
Https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-alive-again-274161390/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
How are you doing there, mister Dan Bush?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Hey, good Eric, how are you doing then? Awhile last
time I was on it was for the Mentwalk Caves podcast.
I think about a year ago.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Wow, time flies, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
It does? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
But the thing about it is, though, is that your
new podcast alive again. It takes that time and it
gives it a purpose to me. I mean, because this
is such a great learning tool for a lot of listeners.
And at first they're going to be horrified because they
don't want to think about it, but you know, it
is something to think about.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's interesting because, yeah, I designed the podcast. I really
wanted to bring people in with some harrowing stories and
some things you know, you here, oh shark attack, I
got to listen to that. But the goal is for
them to walk away with an understanding of human fragility
and you know, a sense of meaning and purpose that
maybe they can attribute to their own lives.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Well, I've been there, dude, you know when you get
that second chance in life. July twenty first, two thousand
and nine, I was at that hospital and doctor Fandaddy.
I guarantee you what was so weird about that was
that he made me stay awake while he was inside
my heart because he didn't want me to be back
on that table ever.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Again. Wow, that's incredible. You should be on our show.
I would love to interview to you about that.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
And the thing is is and I documented in my
journey in my journals because I wanted to make sure
that I stayed a true person in and I didn't
fear life. It was like, okay, so now you faced
this mountain. What are you going to do next? What
is your next challenge? It changed me, it really did.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Oh that's sense. Yeah, So it's funny. We talk a
lot on the show about liminal states, which is just
to stay between thresholds of identity. So most of the
time when these experiences happened, some part of yourself will die.
Some part of yourself that maybe was less conscious or
maybe you know, not quite having a purpose will sort
of pass on, and then there'll be a liminal stay
(01:42):
where they're reviewing, and then they'll cross over into a
sort of a new transform, into a new sense of
self that has often has a lot more purpose and
a lot more sort of understanding of what to do
with the time they have less.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Don't you find that inspiring because I mean it's like
it's like, Okay, you now have chapter one of your
book written. Now let's go for chapter two.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Right. It is extremely inspiring, and it's like I'm learning.
I am learning so much about you know, human resilience
and just things that I didn't you know, you don't
think about in your day to day. But then you're like, oh, wow,
we have the capacity for such wonderful things. And it's
not just about survival. It's about these insights that come
(02:23):
and it's about the human spirit.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
In a very creative way. Do you see yourself as
a spiritual psychotherapist?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Not at all. I'm a filmmaker and I'm interested. I
have had a few wonderful spiritual psychotherapist types on our
show that I've gotten to pick their brains about this stuff.
But no, I you know, as a filmmaker, I kind
of look at it and I'm like, Okay, there, I
see a box, and there's this sort of dogmatic scientific box.
It's the Western box of all knowledge, and certain gatekeepers
(02:53):
allow certain things into that box, but most of what
is the knowledge in the universe is not in that box.
And you know, and so I'm always interested in you know,
the brain, era of the brain is one of the
most complex objects in the universe. I mean, there's more
connections in your brain than there are stars in the
Milky Way galaxy. And for anybody to say, oh, I
(03:15):
understand exactly how this works, no, not at all. So
there's so many unanswered questions, and some of these experiences
can can really point to us in the right directions.
I'm not a neuroscientist, but I am. I am a
curious person.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, I'm a defragger, That's what I call it. And
what I do is I ask the questions then question
the answers. Every dang day, I sit down with that
writing instrument and start asking questions.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
That's wonderful. Yes, that's that's what it's all about, right,
absolutely accepting what we don't know and just being open
to the idea of you know, and I you know,
I'm very much in a scientific background in my life.
My father was a chemist and taught chemistry for thirty
years and you know, but I do think that you know,
some of this stuff, science progresses kind of one funeral
(03:59):
at a time, you know, if you will. So it's
just there's a lot of there's a lot of things
to be learned from these experiences about consciousness, about our lives,
about what we're capable of.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Being that filmmaker, one who has physical proof on the
screen that this happened, this is a storyline. What is
it like for you to step into the podcasting world
where you're playing with our imagination that theater of the mind.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
It's so interesting you asked that era because I'm you know,
I do come from a fiction background, and I am
an acting coach, and I'm always trying to seek truth.
But the truth I'm trying to seek as a filmmaker
is in imaginary circumstances. And so this is a real
delight for me to go into a space that doesn't
it doesn't you know, these stories are not held by
the cathartic rules of like, oh, there's a perfect three
(04:45):
act structure and there's an aha moment and there's a
perfect transformation, you know, and those rules just still's hold.
And so it's it's really interesting to delve into these
true stories that maybe maybe couldn't as easily be put
into a movie. They're just more comp and they're more interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
You know, How do you put the process together in
the way of doing the editing, because the editing to
me is so important.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Right. We have several wonderful editors or you know, a
handful of wonderful editors, and so the story producers will
go out and we'll find these stories and we'll interview
these folks, and then it's very difficult because the interviews
last you know, two hours sometimes and to figure out,
you know, to sort of hone it down into what
we want to share with the audience, you know, and
what checks certain boxes as far as you know, the
(05:29):
attributes of our show and what we're trying to share.
But the biggest thing, you know, it I try to
edit out the stuff that gets super political, because it's
easy in some of these instances when you're talking about
natural disasters, for instance, to talk about you know, a
lot of political stuff. And I am very political, but
I don't want to bring that into the show because
this is this is something to unify all of us.
We are all face it, We're all going to get
(05:50):
our ticket punched at some point, and the more time
that we have to sort of consider that, the more
prepared will be.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
You you have a statement inside your podcast that really
I think it was a life change for me, not
a victim, a survivor, because how many times have we
felt like victims when in fact we should be celebrating
that we survived.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Oh, there's so many stories I've learned. I've heard so
many people come of all these stories. You know, there's
a consistent theme of people who have been through these harrowing,
extreme adverse situations and they come back and they all
they all come back, or most of them come back,
and they say, you know, I wouldn't change a thing.
I'm glad this happened to me. And what they've gleaned
from it in terms of forgiveness, in terms of their
(06:30):
own sense of self and their own strength, is something
they wouldn't trade. And that's something that Kathy Preston said.
She was a Holocaust survivor, and she says, I'm not
a victim. I'm a survivor, and you know, in my
life is like a middle finger to Hitler, she says,
you know, but it's it's a wonderful. It's just wonderful
to see these these folks and to hear their stories,
(06:51):
and it makes me go, Okay, you know, what's what's
the purpose in my life? What do I have to
do with the time that I have left. You know,
I think about my parents and I'm like, they're in
their eighties, right, and so how many Christmases do we
have left? You know? Yep?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, I count the summers. How many summers do I
have left?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
There? You go, yeah, yeah, yeah. Indeed, what is.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
The one thing that they have in common in the
way of like, for instance, you got to be a
little rebellious as well. I had sixty three. I have
hair to the middle of my back. Thank god it's
not grey, but man, I'm gonna wear it with pride. Now,
what what do you do? You run into this a
lot with people They've got that one thing that they're
holding on too, and they're not gonna let it go.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah yeah. And it's it's interesting because we have talked
to a few people who have sort of what's called
survivor's guilt. Have one story of a gentleman who encountered
a serial killer and was so so but survived, but
was so sort of shaken by it, and he didn't
understand he didn't really have the mental wherewithal to go
(07:50):
to the police, or he wasn't sure what had happened.
And then later found out that this person was indeed
somebody who he should have reported. And so there are
those stories that are that are a little more grim,
but mostly people you know, Manuel guest Spirit is his name.
He was he was abducted or you know, kidnapped by
(08:11):
a cartel and he was actually tortured for quite some time.
And he came out of that light, and he came
out of that with an understanding of forgiveness for his
captors because they he turns out that they were teenagers too,
and they were victims too. It was fantastic and he said,
you know, I lost my dignity, but they lost their
humanity and their victims. Wow, and they're victims too, And
(08:33):
I thought, wow, that's that's so huge. I can't even
It's hard for me to imagine not just wanting vengeance. Right,
So how did the idea come to you?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Because I mean, I've always been inspired by when you know,
a podcast doesn't just instantly hit you you got it.
There's a process and there's a progress that goes with it.
When did it hit you and when did you say okay,
let's do it.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I've always been fascinated with what it really means to
be human right, and you know, and working on the
show just let me dive into the stories of people
who who've been to the edge and come back transformed.
And I guess I I've just always been fascinated. You know.
I took a class in universe in college that was
called Dealing with Death Creatively, and that was, you know,
(09:14):
thirty years ago. And I guess looking back, I've always
been sort of curious about, you know, and maybe unsatisfied
with the dogmas, whether they're religious or whether they're scientific,
the dogmas around, you know, the certainty of whether there's
an afterlife, and you know, I thought, well, let's hear
it from the people themselves, like you know, and we
do have expert opinions and expert points of view on
(09:37):
our show, you know, talking about brain chemistry and talking
about theology and other things, but mostly these are firsthand experiences,
and I just you know, let me let go of
any dogma I have and just listen.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Please do not move. There's more with Dan Bush coming
up next. Hey, thanks for coming back to my conversation
with Dan Bush. You talk about walking up to that edge.
I will never forget what happened when the doctor told
me my truth, and that is I went into meditation.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Tell me about that.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I was right there in the hospital. He said, mister Anthony,
you're about ready. I mean you you are currently having
a heart attack. Do you understand where I'm coming from?
And I said, yes, I do. And in that moment,
I think it's because I'm a third degree black belt.
I went into meditation. I had to keep my body calm.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Wow. And you that's such a skill. I can't so
you and you you gleaned that that's a skill you
learned from from from martial arts.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yes, yes, And to this day, NDRA is my is
my chosen meditation, and I will I can be in
any position and go right into nidra.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Oh that's fantastic. What a what a powerful tool. You know.
It's funny because one of the one of the things
I've learned recently is that and this is something Aaron Ralston.
Aaron Ralston is the subject of the film one hundred
and twenty seven Hours, the Danny Boyle film Yes sorrying
James Franco. So we interviewed him for the show The Person.
You know. Aaron's one of that movies based on and
(11:00):
he was trapped in a canyon and he had to
amputate his own arm in order to survive after six days,
with six days without water, without food, and you know,
having to stand up the entire time. And he says,
you know, when I amputated in my arm, I didn't
just cut off my arm. I cut it off while
I was smiling because it had this extreme epiphany. And
(11:24):
what he said was he says this. He says, you
cannot hold despair and gratitude in your heart at the
same time. And that's backed up by science. Actually it's true.
Like when you're amygdala, which is the fear center in
the back of your head. When your amigal is lit up,
there's no room for the prefrontal cortex, which is where
(11:44):
we have our oxytocin and where we have our feelings
of gratitude and our feelings of compassion. Those two things
do not operate simultaneously. We're either it's fight or flight, right.
So it's fascinating that that idea that you can't hold
despair and gratitude in your heart at the same time
backed up in neurology and neuroscience. And I think about
(12:06):
that a lot, and I think, well, if I cultivate
this gratitude, you know, then there's gonna be less and
less room for the panic attacks. So it's a you know,
I envy you that you have that wonderful tool, that meditation,
that you can you know, that you can return to
at will.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
How do you protect your heart because you know you're
going into each and every one of these stories where
there's going to be a lot of weight put on
your heart. How are you protecting it? And do you
go into post production blues?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I do? We, you know, and we've had some fallout too.
There's some one of our story producers and then another
editor who because we have to listen to these stories
and edit them again and again and again. And I
didn't think about that at first, but I've come to
realize that it does take a toll, and we do
need any of ourselves breaks to process and to think
about it. But at the end of the day, I
do believe that, you know what, the final mess is
(13:00):
a hopeful one. It's not one of despair. The final
message in these stories is one of resilience despite our fragility.
And you know, I am hoping that, yeah, people might
want to click on it because they're like, oh, a
shark attack or oh this person survived a tornado or
what have you, you know, and then on the other
side they go, oh, but what the story is really
(13:20):
about is their transformation and their sort of epiphany.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
See. I don't even call it death anymore. I call
it transitioning. And it's like, okay, so my next transition.
And I totally believe that the spirit of ourselves are
very much alive. I walk with several people every day.
I just everybody can't see them. I can feel them,
but I can't see them.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I love that. That's and you know it in your
heart right, yes, oh God, yes. And for such a
long time I grew up, you know, honestly, I grew
up in a background that was very hesitant to to,
you know, accept things like faith. Faith was considered in
my family something that might be potentially dangerous because it
could be dogmatic and be controlling of people. But and
(14:02):
so it's been a long journey for me to come
around and go, well, you know, there's things that I
don't understand and there is no answer for it, and
to be okay with that and to say what I'm
feeling now, why would I deny that if I if
I have a sense that I'm connected to somebody across
long distances, you know, or that's that feeling. You get
a you know, an intuition about somebody, and then the
(14:24):
next day they call you or reach out to you
on Facebook or what have you. Those are those intuitions,
you know, Those are like signposts on the road, I think,
and it's it would be, you know, arrogant of me
to dismiss them right as coincidence. Better to just open
my mind and go, well, what you know, let me
be up to this, Let it be what it is.
You know, the feeling I have as supposed to my
intellect about.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
It, well, it blows me away. When I walk through
a store and a simple scent in the air will
shoot me back thirty years, right, that blows my mind
away because I don't understand how the mind can do that.
But if what did you do five minutes ago? I
have no idea what I did five minutes ago?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Right, right, But we hold onto these we hold onto these,
these memories, and we hold it. We hold it in
our bodies, we hold it in our muscles, We hold
it not just in our minds. You know.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
One of the greatest teaching tools that you've got on
this podcast to Live Again is that you teach us
to really believe in replenishing perspective, priorities, and purpose. Those
are three p words that really play a big role
in each of our lives. We just need to identify
it with the rest of our body.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, one hundred percent life. Life is fragile, Yeah, but
it's also full of meaning, you know, and that we
can transform through suffering and come back stronger. You know
that that which doesn't kill us, right, you know, and
we can come back more connected and more live. The
big takeaway for me is, you know, we don't have
(15:51):
to wait for a near death experience to start living
more fully. We can start now. We can be present
now with loving each other and making our time here count. Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Can you imagine if that was really taking place? I
would sit there and I would just stare at it
for the longest time saying, Okay, first of all, do
I believe this? What's going on here?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
There's you know. We interviewed Rick Doblin of MAPS, the
Multi Disciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies. He's been on Roguin.
He's a wonderful He's he's sort of a leader in
psychedelic sciences. And it's the reason I talk about this
is because there is a lot of brain chemistry that
happens in the minds of folks who are at the
moment of their death, the release of DMT and so forth,
(16:30):
you know, and these are psychedelic compound compounds that are
naturally produced in our body, and so there is some
crossover and there's some things, some insights we can glean
from that. But Rick talks about net zero trauma, and
he talks about, you know, our society, there's there's generational
trauma that has that we all carry without knowing it unconsciously,
and he's and he talks about working towards a state
(16:52):
where we're not adding anymore to the trauma pool, where
we are all beginning to recognize our fragility and we're
all And I love that idea of net zero trauma
and that fantastic. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, I was just sitting here thinking, God, if I
held that in my hand and I started working with
it and activated it in my life, that would be
something that would really bring peace.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Right, you know. And it's it's so funny because it's
again it's like it's so easy to be dismissive and say, oh,
consciousness is something created by the brain. But on you know,
I need to get scientific again. But on a sort
of you know, on a quantum level, with ion channels
in the brain, it really does not behave in that
in that sort of pool table kind of way. You know,
(17:35):
it's not just a matter of magnesium and you know,
sodium and these these electronic signals that we have. It
really starts to point at something that is harder to describe.
And we have evidence from situations where people had you know,
group meditations or mass prayers and there was a drop
(17:57):
in crime afterwards in certain studies. So you know that
that stuff is very real, and whether or not we
have an explanation for it is less important to me.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Do you think that starts with identifying the triggers?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah? I think that tell me more. That sounds great, Well,
I mean, because how do you do that? Right? How
do we how do we identify the trigger? Bye?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
By getting to know who the hell you are? I mean,
you know, and what what gets you to going and
what and so so, and by once again asking the
questions and then questioning the answers and and if I
identify it with a trigger, then I know if I
go that way, I know what's going to happen on
the other side. So therefore I'm gonna be like a
martial artist. I'm not going to the fight. I'm gonna
walk around what could have been the.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Fight right right right, and then identifying when when these
things start triggering for us? So many, so many emotions
and traumas are buried so deep, and we we have
a you know, we start off the podcast with a
little bit of a disclaimer, and you know, if people
are listening, they should you know, they're there are some
of the some of these stories are triggering for some
(18:58):
and listener discretion as advised. Yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Oh it's so good though, dude, it's so it's this
is it's truthful, it is transparency. It is the realism
of what is right now, and people do want to
know what is going on right now.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah. I agree. And you know, and that's what you
say is asking questions. We're not we're not trying necessarily
to find a certain result with the with the show.
We're we're just questioning. We're just listening, really just listening.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
So, wow, Dan, you got to come back to this
show anytime in the future. Twenty minutes with you is
just not enough.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Thank you, Ero, I really appreciate it. And a shout
out out. You know I'm from Charlotte, North Carolina originally,
so yeah, you know I do. Grew up there.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Will you be brilliant today?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Okay, you too, Thank you so much for your time.
How are you doing there, mister Dan Bush?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Hey, good Eric, how are you doing then? Awhile last
time I was on it was for the Mentwalk Caves podcast.
I think about a year ago.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Wow, time flies, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
It does? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
But the thing about it is, though, is that your
new podcast alive again. It takes that time and it
gives it a purpose to me. I mean, because this
is such a great learning tool for a lot of listeners.
And at first they're going to be horrified because they
don't want to think about it, but you know, it
is something to think about.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's interesting because, yeah, I designed the podcast. I really
wanted to bring people in with some harrowing stories and
some things you know, you here, oh shark attack, I
got to listen to that. But the goal is for
them to walk away with an understanding of human fragility
and you know, a sense of meaning and purpose that
maybe they can attribute to their own lives.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Well, I've been there, dude, you know when you get
that second chance in life. July twenty first, two thousand
and nine, I was at that hospital and doctor Fandaddy.
I guarantee you what was so weird about that was
that he made me stay awake while he was inside
my heart because he didn't want me to be back
on that table ever.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Again. Wow, that's incredible. You should be on our show.
I would love to interview to you about that.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
And the thing is is and I documented in my
journey in my journals because I wanted to make sure
that I stayed a true person in and I didn't
fear life. It was like, okay, so now you faced
this mountain. What are you going to do next? What
is your next challenge? It changed me, it really did.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Oh that's sense. Yeah, So it's funny. We talk a
lot on the show about liminal states, which is just
to stay between thresholds of identity. So most of the
time when these experiences happened, some part of yourself will die.
Some part of yourself that maybe was less conscious or
maybe you know, not quite having a purpose will sort
of pass on, and then there'll be a liminal stay
(01:42):
where they're reviewing, and then they'll cross over into a
sort of a new transform, into a new sense of
self that has often has a lot more purpose and
a lot more sort of understanding of what to do
with the time they have less.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Don't you find that inspiring because I mean it's like
it's like, Okay, you now have chapter one of your
book written. Now let's go for chapter two.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Right. It is extremely inspiring, and it's like I'm learning.
I am learning so much about you know, human resilience
and just things that I didn't you know, you don't
think about in your day to day. But then you're like, oh, wow,
we have the capacity for such wonderful things. And it's
not just about survival. It's about these insights that come
(02:23):
and it's about the human spirit.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
In a very creative way. Do you see yourself as
a spiritual psychotherapist?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Not at all. I'm a filmmaker and I'm interested. I
have had a few wonderful spiritual psychotherapist types on our
show that I've gotten to pick their brains about this stuff.
But no, I you know, as a filmmaker, I kind
of look at it and I'm like, Okay, there, I
see a box, and there's this sort of dogmatic scientific box.
It's the Western box of all knowledge, and certain gatekeepers
(02:53):
allow certain things into that box, but most of what
is the knowledge in the universe is not in that box.
And you know, and so I'm always interested in you know,
the brain, era of the brain is one of the
most complex objects in the universe. I mean, there's more
connections in your brain than there are stars in the
Milky Way galaxy. And for anybody to say, oh, I
(03:15):
understand exactly how this works, no, not at all. So
there's so many unanswered questions, and some of these experiences
can can really point to us in the right directions.
I'm not a neuroscientist, but I am. I am a
curious person.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, I'm a defragger, That's what I call it. And
what I do is I ask the questions then question
the answers. Every dang day, I sit down with that
writing instrument and start asking questions.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
That's wonderful. Yes, that's that's what it's all about, right,
absolutely accepting what we don't know and just being open
to the idea of you know, and I you know,
I'm very much in a scientific background in my life.
My father was a chemist and taught chemistry for thirty
years and you know, but I do think that you know,
some of this stuff, science progresses kind of one funeral
(03:59):
at a time, you know, if you will. So it's
just there's a lot of there's a lot of things
to be learned from these experiences about consciousness, about our lives,
about what we're capable of.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Being that filmmaker, one who has physical proof on the
screen that this happened, this is a storyline. What is
it like for you to step into the podcasting world
where you're playing with our imagination that theater of the mind.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
It's so interesting you asked that era because I'm you know,
I do come from a fiction background, and I am
an acting coach, and I'm always trying to seek truth.
But the truth I'm trying to seek as a filmmaker
is in imaginary circumstances. And so this is a real
delight for me to go into a space that doesn't
it doesn't you know, these stories are not held by
the cathartic rules of like, oh, there's a perfect three
(04:45):
act structure and there's an aha moment and there's a
perfect transformation, you know, and those rules just still's hold.
And so it's it's really interesting to delve into these
true stories that maybe maybe couldn't as easily be put
into a movie. They're just more comp and they're more interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
You know, How do you put the process together in
the way of doing the editing, because the editing to
me is so important.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Right. We have several wonderful editors or you know, a
handful of wonderful editors, and so the story producers will
go out and we'll find these stories and we'll interview
these folks, and then it's very difficult because the interviews
last you know, two hours sometimes and to figure out,
you know, to sort of hone it down into what
we want to share with the audience, you know, and
what checks certain boxes as far as you know, the
(05:29):
attributes of our show and what we're trying to share.
But the biggest thing, you know, it I try to
edit out the stuff that gets super political, because it's
easy in some of these instances when you're talking about
natural disasters, for instance, to talk about you know, a
lot of political stuff. And I am very political, but
I don't want to bring that into the show because
this is this is something to unify all of us.
We are all face it, We're all going to get
(05:50):
our ticket punched at some point, and the more time
that we have to sort of consider that, the more
prepared will be.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
You you have a statement inside your podcast that really
I think it was a life change for me, not
a victim, a survivor, because how many times have we
felt like victims when in fact we should be celebrating
that we survived.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Oh, there's so many stories I've learned. I've heard so
many people come of all these stories. You know, there's
a consistent theme of people who have been through these harrowing,
extreme adverse situations and they come back and they all
they all come back, or most of them come back,
and they say, you know, I wouldn't change a thing.
I'm glad this happened to me. And what they've gleaned
from it in terms of forgiveness, in terms of their
(06:30):
own sense of self and their own strength, is something
they wouldn't trade. And that's something that Kathy Preston said.
She was a Holocaust survivor, and she says, I'm not
a victim. I'm a survivor, and you know, in my
life is like a middle finger to Hitler, she says,
you know, but it's it's a wonderful. It's just wonderful
to see these these folks and to hear their stories,
(06:51):
and it makes me go, Okay, you know, what's what's
the purpose in my life? What do I have to
do with the time that I have left. You know,
I think about my parents and I'm like, they're in
their eighties, right, and so how many Christmases do we
have left? You know? Yep?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, I count the summers. How many summers do I
have left?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
There? You go, yeah, yeah, yeah. Indeed, what is.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
The one thing that they have in common in the
way of like, for instance, you got to be a
little rebellious as well. I had sixty three. I have
hair to the middle of my back. Thank god it's
not grey, but man, I'm gonna wear it with pride. Now,
what what do you do? You run into this a
lot with people They've got that one thing that they're
holding on too, and they're not gonna let it go.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah yeah. And it's it's interesting because we have talked
to a few people who have sort of what's called
survivor's guilt. Have one story of a gentleman who encountered
a serial killer and was so so but survived, but
was so sort of shaken by it, and he didn't
understand he didn't really have the mental wherewithal to go
(07:50):
to the police, or he wasn't sure what had happened.
And then later found out that this person was indeed
somebody who he should have reported. And so there are
those stories that are that are a little more grim,
but mostly people you know, Manuel guest Spirit is his name.
He was he was abducted or you know, kidnapped by
(08:11):
a cartel and he was actually tortured for quite some time.
And he came out of that light, and he came
out of that with an understanding of forgiveness for his
captors because they he turns out that they were teenagers too,
and they were victims too. It was fantastic and he said,
you know, I lost my dignity, but they lost their
humanity and their victims. Wow, and they're victims too, And
(08:33):
I thought, wow, that's that's so huge. I can't even
It's hard for me to imagine not just wanting vengeance. Right,
So how did the idea come to you?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Because I mean, I've always been inspired by when you know,
a podcast doesn't just instantly hit you you got it.
There's a process and there's a progress that goes with it.
When did it hit you and when did you say okay,
let's do it.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I've always been fascinated with what it really means to
be human right, and you know, and working on the
show just let me dive into the stories of people
who who've been to the edge and come back transformed.
And I guess I I've just always been fascinated. You know.
I took a class in universe in college that was
called Dealing with Death Creatively, and that was, you know,
(09:14):
thirty years ago. And I guess looking back, I've always
been sort of curious about, you know, and maybe unsatisfied
with the dogmas, whether they're religious or whether they're scientific,
the dogmas around, you know, the certainty of whether there's
an afterlife, and you know, I thought, well, let's hear
it from the people themselves, like you know, and we
do have expert opinions and expert points of view on
(09:37):
our show, you know, talking about brain chemistry and talking
about theology and other things, but mostly these are firsthand experiences,
and I just you know, let me let go of
any dogma I have and just listen.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Please do not move. There's more with Dan Bush coming
up next. Hey, thanks for coming back to my conversation
with Dan Bush. You talk about walking up to that edge.
I will never forget what happened when the doctor told
me my truth, and that is I went into meditation.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Tell me about that.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
I was right there in the hospital. He said, mister Anthony,
you're about ready. I mean you you are currently having
a heart attack. Do you understand where I'm coming from?
And I said, yes, I do. And in that moment,
I think it's because I'm a third degree black belt.
I went into meditation. I had to keep my body calm.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Wow. And you that's such a skill. I can't so
you and you you gleaned that that's a skill you
learned from from from martial arts.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yes, yes, And to this day, NDRA is my is
my chosen meditation, and I will I can be in
any position and go right into nidra.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Oh that's fantastic. What a what a powerful tool. You know.
It's funny because one of the one of the things
I've learned recently is that and this is something Aaron Ralston.
Aaron Ralston is the subject of the film one hundred
and twenty seven Hours, the Danny Boyle film Yes sorrying
James Franco. So we interviewed him for the show The Person.
You know. Aaron's one of that movies based on and
(11:00):
he was trapped in a canyon and he had to
amputate his own arm in order to survive after six days,
with six days without water, without food, and you know,
having to stand up the entire time. And he says,
you know, when I amputated in my arm, I didn't
just cut off my arm. I cut it off while
I was smiling because it had this extreme epiphany. And
(11:24):
what he said was he says this. He says, you
cannot hold despair and gratitude in your heart at the
same time. And that's backed up by science. Actually it's true.
Like when you're amygdala, which is the fear center in
the back of your head. When your amigal is lit up,
there's no room for the prefrontal cortex, which is where
(11:44):
we have our oxytocin and where we have our feelings
of gratitude and our feelings of compassion. Those two things
do not operate simultaneously. We're either it's fight or flight, right.
So it's fascinating that that idea that you can't hold
despair and gratitude in your heart at the same time
backed up in neurology and neuroscience. And I think about
(12:06):
that a lot, and I think, well, if I cultivate
this gratitude, you know, then there's gonna be less and
less room for the panic attacks. So it's a you know,
I envy you that you have that wonderful tool, that meditation,
that you can you know, that you can return to
at will.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
How do you protect your heart because you know you're
going into each and every one of these stories where
there's going to be a lot of weight put on
your heart. How are you protecting it? And do you
go into post production blues?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I do? We, you know, and we've had some fallout too.
There's some one of our story producers and then another
editor who because we have to listen to these stories
and edit them again and again and again. And I
didn't think about that at first, but I've come to
realize that it does take a toll, and we do
need any of ourselves breaks to process and to think
about it. But at the end of the day, I
do believe that, you know what, the final mess is
(13:00):
a hopeful one. It's not one of despair. The final
message in these stories is one of resilience despite our fragility.
And you know, I am hoping that, yeah, people might
want to click on it because they're like, oh, a
shark attack or oh this person survived a tornado or
what have you, you know, and then on the other
side they go, oh, but what the story is really
(13:20):
about is their transformation and their sort of epiphany.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
See. I don't even call it death anymore. I call
it transitioning. And it's like, okay, so my next transition.
And I totally believe that the spirit of ourselves are
very much alive. I walk with several people every day.
I just everybody can't see them. I can feel them,
but I can't see them.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I love that. That's and you know it in your
heart right, yes, oh God, yes. And for such a
long time I grew up, you know, honestly, I grew
up in a background that was very hesitant to to,
you know, accept things like faith. Faith was considered in
my family something that might be potentially dangerous because it
could be dogmatic and be controlling of people. But and
(14:02):
so it's been a long journey for me to come
around and go, well, you know, there's things that I
don't understand and there is no answer for it, and
to be okay with that and to say what I'm
feeling now, why would I deny that if I if
I have a sense that I'm connected to somebody across
long distances, you know, or that's that feeling. You get
a you know, an intuition about somebody, and then the
(14:24):
next day they call you or reach out to you
on Facebook or what have you. Those are those intuitions,
you know, Those are like signposts on the road, I think,
and it's it would be, you know, arrogant of me
to dismiss them right as coincidence. Better to just open
my mind and go, well, what you know, let me
be up to this, Let it be what it is.
You know, the feeling I have as supposed to my
intellect about.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
It, well, it blows me away. When I walk through
a store and a simple scent in the air will
shoot me back thirty years, right, that blows my mind
away because I don't understand how the mind can do that.
But if what did you do five minutes ago? I
have no idea what I did five minutes ago?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Right, right, But we hold onto these we hold onto these,
these memories, and we hold it. We hold it in
our bodies, we hold it in our muscles, We hold
it not just in our minds. You know.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
One of the greatest teaching tools that you've got on
this podcast to Live Again is that you teach us
to really believe in replenishing perspective, priorities, and purpose. Those
are three p words that really play a big role
in each of our lives. We just need to identify
it with the rest of our body.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, one hundred percent life. Life is fragile, Yeah, but
it's also full of meaning, you know, and that we
can transform through suffering and come back stronger. You know
that that which doesn't kill us, right, you know, and
we can come back more connected and more live. The
big takeaway for me is, you know, we don't have
(15:51):
to wait for a near death experience to start living
more fully. We can start now. We can be present
now with loving each other and making our time here count. Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Can you imagine if that was really taking place? I
would sit there and I would just stare at it
for the longest time saying, Okay, first of all, do
I believe this? What's going on here?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
There's you know. We interviewed Rick Doblin of MAPS, the
Multi Disciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies. He's been on Roguin.
He's a wonderful He's he's sort of a leader in
psychedelic sciences. And it's the reason I talk about this
is because there is a lot of brain chemistry that
happens in the minds of folks who are at the
moment of their death, the release of DMT and so forth,
(16:30):
you know, and these are psychedelic compound compounds that are
naturally produced in our body, and so there is some
crossover and there's some things, some insights we can glean
from that. But Rick talks about net zero trauma, and
he talks about, you know, our society, there's there's generational
trauma that has that we all carry without knowing it unconsciously,
and he's and he talks about working towards a state
(16:52):
where we're not adding anymore to the trauma pool, where
we are all beginning to recognize our fragility and we're
all And I love that idea of net zero trauma
and that fantastic. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, I was just sitting here thinking, God, if I
held that in my hand and I started working with
it and activated it in my life, that would be
something that would really bring peace.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Right, you know. And it's it's so funny because it's
again it's like it's so easy to be dismissive and say, oh,
consciousness is something created by the brain. But on you know,
I need to get scientific again. But on a sort
of you know, on a quantum level, with ion channels
in the brain, it really does not behave in that
in that sort of pool table kind of way. You know,
(17:35):
it's not just a matter of magnesium and you know,
sodium and these these electronic signals that we have. It
really starts to point at something that is harder to describe.
And we have evidence from situations where people had you know,
group meditations or mass prayers and there was a drop
(17:57):
in crime afterwards in certain studies. So you know that
that stuff is very real, and whether or not we
have an explanation for it is less important to me.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Do you think that starts with identifying the triggers?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah? I think that tell me more. That sounds great, Well,
I mean, because how do you do that? Right? How
do we how do we identify the trigger? Bye?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
By getting to know who the hell you are? I mean,
you know, and what what gets you to going and
what and so so, and by once again asking the
questions and then questioning the answers and and if I
identify it with a trigger, then I know if I
go that way, I know what's going to happen on
the other side. So therefore I'm gonna be like a
martial artist. I'm not going to the fight. I'm gonna
walk around what could have been the.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Fight right right right, and then identifying when when these
things start triggering for us? So many, so many emotions
and traumas are buried so deep, and we we have
a you know, we start off the podcast with a
little bit of a disclaimer, and you know, if people
are listening, they should you know, they're there are some
of the some of these stories are triggering for some
(18:58):
and listener discretion as advised. Yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Oh it's so good though, dude, it's so it's this
is it's truthful, it is transparency. It is the realism
of what is right now, and people do want to
know what is going on right now.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah. I agree. And you know, and that's what you
say is asking questions. We're not we're not trying necessarily
to find a certain result with the with the show.
We're we're just questioning. We're just listening, really just listening.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
So, wow, Dan, you got to come back to this
show anytime in the future. Twenty minutes with you is
just not enough.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Thank you, Ero, I really appreciate it. And a shout
out out. You know I'm from Charlotte, North Carolina originally,
so yeah, you know I do. Grew up there.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Will you be brilliant today?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Okay, you too, Thank you so much for your time.
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