February 27, 2025 • 19 mins
"For over 20 years, my father led a double life as a hitman for the mafia and nobody in our family even knew. Then, in 2013 he told me everything, and our whole world changed. " CROOK COUNTY is the shocking true-crime podcast from iHeart and Tenderfoot TV about Kenny "The Kid" Tekiela's alleged rise through the ranks of the legendary organized crime syndicate, the Chicago Outfit. From whorehouse doorman at the age of 17, to ruthless assassin in his 20's, and the many years that followed cleaning up the messes of the mafia and crooked cops alike as a firefighter/paramedic for the Chicago Fire Department. To finally, moving to the suburbs with his new wife and kids and trying desperately to put it all behind him. We explore in great depth and detail his father's life of crime and its profound and lasting impact on Kyle's family to this very day. Welcome to CROOK COUNTY Episodes available here: Https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-crook-county-259813887/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
How are you doing today.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hey, good morning. I'm great excited to talk with.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
You, dude, No, I am.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
I'm excited to share a conversation with you because you
know how it is when it comes to the mafia,
it's almost like Marvel and DC to us, and you
have lived this, I mean, you agree that because they
are to many of us, they are superheroes.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
They are it's like, oh my god, look at what
you've got. You're on the cool side of the town.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Yeah, I guess you call them anti heroes more than heroes.
But yeah, it's one of those things. It's like, it's
this legendary thing. You feel like you're always you know,
on the outside, you know, looking in, but when you're
on the inside, it's it's very strange, especially when you
realize that you're on the inside. When you know when
you're twenty eight years old, that you've always been on
(00:45):
the inside and you just didn't even know it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
That's the real shocker. Yeah, that's the story of Crook County.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
I was going to ask you about that because you know,
there's a side of me that loves the idea that
you can, you know, secretly lead a double life, because
to me, that's explorating, exploring. But the thing is, though,
is that when it comes to your side of the story,
that's where my empathy comes in. I'm going, oh my god,
I can't believe that you even had to deal with
this in your life, because how do you trust anybody
now this day forward?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Well, you know, I don't try. I work in.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Hollywoods don't trust anybody anyway. But I can tell by
your lafe you know exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
What I'm talking about. But but yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
You know, obviously you would like to trust your parents,
you would hope so. And I trusted my parents when
I was a kid, I looked up to him. My
dad was my hero. He literally saved my life from
this crazy dog attack that happened when I was four
years old, And you literally saved the day. I'd be
dead if if he was at work that day. So
you know, I had this like, you know, huge, I
(01:44):
put him on a pedestal and then you know, later unfortunately,
later on in high school, he had this awful heroin
addiction that completely took over his life and destroyed our
whole family unit and turned them into a monster. And
we won our separate and I was strange. My father
for many years until twenty thirteen when he called me
(02:05):
for the first time in a long time and he
was desperate and he basically asked for my help and
said that he needs to go to rehab or he's
this is his last day, or he's going to die.
So I had to save his life that day. I
put him on a playing out to la where I live,
and then put him into rehab and he went through
that whole process of getting clean, and when he got clean,
that's when he finally told me who he really.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Was in his history in them up. You know what, shock,
my friend.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
One of the most fascinating things that you do on
this podcast, and I think that you're brilliant and sharing
It was the second that you turned on the microphone
and he didn't know how to talk into it. You
guys really didn't know where to begin and stuff. And
I just I just believe in the authenticity of why
you did that and how you did that because it
to me as a listener, it brought me even closer
to listening to what was going on because it wasn't
(02:49):
a stage act. It wasn't going to be something that
was written out, and that's I sort of got that's
the reason why I'm addicted to this podcast because it
really is a story.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Oh well, thank you, Yeah, no, there's you know, obviously
it's highly produced. And when I say high they produced,
I mean I put a lot of thought and time into,
you know, doing the music and the sound and making
sure the story is correct and the story is engaging.
But yeah, at the end of the day, it's just
a raw interview between the father and a son trying
to figure out what the hell is going on. And
I tried to keep in as many of those little moments,
(03:22):
you know, that are unscripted as.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Possible, because that's the reality. Just like you said, that's
the real thing that happened.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
And it's important to understand how the relationship is and
how it's developing, and how the conversation is coming out
of out of ken because you know, obviously he's not
it's not easy for him to tell the story. He
has to like put himself there and kind of like
work up the energy and you know, the almost bravery
to kind of unleash these awful truths on his firstborn son,
(03:48):
you know, things that that should have stayed buried until
he died.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
But how would you have dealt with that, you know,
if he would not have shared that story, because my
father is gone, my birth father, and I swear to God,
I wish I knew what he really.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Was like because I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
So so I'm kind of very jealous of you that
your father at least got to sit down and talk
with you.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Well, I can appreciate that, you know, I saw my
grandma die. That was like one of the first people
I saw die, and I always regretted not asking her
what her life was like.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
I always tell people that, you know, your relatives are
the most entertaining, you know, most informative resource you have,
you should ask them questions. And so, yeah, I kind
of had this amazing opportunity to really dive deep with
my father and understand who he really is. Because there's
there's really not a lot of people in my family
that I can talk to. So this was a unique
(04:40):
scenario and has unlocked a lot of other conversations with
everyone else. It's kind of really opened up the doors
to the history of our entire family, and people are
starting to talk and people that never would have talked before.
So it's been a really kind of incredible experience overall.
But yeah, to watch him tell me who he really
is after thinking I know a man for my whole life,
(05:03):
it's a very odd situation to be in. It's it's
a very bizarre feeling.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
You're so lucky in the way that my mantra is
is that share your story or someone will write it
for you. Getting this story for you is something that
is not going to be written by somebody else because
you got the story and the fact that you've got
you that you recorded. See that inspires me as a
broadcaster because pitch, volume, and tone are everything. Words in
a book are the interpretation of that particular day. But
(05:29):
you've got his physical voice.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Yeah, and you know there's you can really see the emotion,
you know, and and it's like you can really read
between the lines, you know, when he says something, how
he says it, just like you say you're pitch, You're
telling your inflection. You know. It tells so much more
of the story than just the words on paper. So yeah,
to be able to have this is priceless and and
more than that, just to be able to know who
(05:54):
he really is. And as a father, I have a
ten year old son, you know he doesn't have a
grandpa you, and so I want to be able to
explain to him why he doesn't have a grandpa and I.
And when he's old enough, I can play this for
him and he can listen, and he can understand what
I went through, and he can understand, you know, what
my father went through, and what his uncle my brother
(06:14):
went through, and his grandma my mother went through. And
I think he can really get a sense of where
he comes from, more than anyone in our family ever has.
And I think that's really valuable. And honestly, that was
the original reason I started this in the first place.
I just wanted to have something, some kind of foundation
that I can build off of to explain who we
are and where we come from. And it just as
a filmmaker, of course, it naturally turned itself into serious.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
See I was going to ask you about that.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I mean, did you go into this project when the
moment you hit you know, play and record was it?
Did you know you were going to do a podcast
or were you just trying to capture history in a
moment that you could share forward.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Yeah, always just trying to capture the first interview with
my dad, I was just trying to capture history because
I have no idea how he's going to come off,
you know, in an interview, and if it's you know,
I just wanted the information. But you know, you you
sound like you've listened to some of the episodes, like
he's really really good at telling his story. Yeah, and
he's he's very you know, inomatic, and there's a lot
(07:10):
of character and you can kind of like really feel
like you're there with him, and he tells a great story,
you know, the way the way he words things and
the way he times things out, and so it was
like very relevant within the first thirty minutes, like oh
this this could be something you know, but that was
never really original to see.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I'm not shocked by him being a storyteller. The reason
why is because for him to do what he has done,
he had to have been a negotiator and some sort
of salesman in the way that he he got so
good at what he did. And so I mean, and
especially when it comes to leading a double life like
like he did. I mean, to me, he's he's that
that voice. But my question to you is, did you
(07:47):
have to go back and do research on what he
said to find out if you know, if the continuity
played out properly.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Absolutely, And you know a lot of the things that
he did are not on red, so there's not a
lot of search to be done, you know all this.
You know, it's it's not like they wrote all this
stuff down and kept files.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Of everybody they killed, you know what I mean. It's
it's all it's kind of all word of mouth.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
And and the way that I was able to in
my journey is to kind of, you know, I don't
want to say prove, but you know maybe this isn't
a lie, you.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Know, is to go and ask his you know, high.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
School girlfriend, you know, or to go to ask his
twin brother, Rich.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Who obviously knows him extremely well.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
To go and ask his his firefighter partner of twenty years,
if he saw anything, and kind of collaborate, you know,
all these different stories and put them all together and
and and yes it corresponds.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
So absolutely his heroin addiction was it him trying to
feed the addiction or run away from the addiction.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Well, he was in a terrible fire accident, who was
injured and almost killed. He was crushed by a ladder
and a firefighter wearing a full oxygen oxygen tank and
the whole nine, and put him in the hospital, and
he had a bunch of surgeries, and of course they
put him on a bunch of painkillers, and the painkillers,
you know, they stopped prescribing him.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
After a while.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
And my dad he just had, I guess, an addictive
personality and took to those pills. And when there were
no more pills to be had, he took to the
streets and started doing street heroin to kind of fill
that void, and it just got out of control. So
I don't it was never in the cards. I don't
think he was using it to cope. I think he
(09:37):
got away for the most part. In his head, he
was getting away scot free. So I don't think there's much.
By the time he got that accident, he was for
the most part, you know, mostly removed.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
From the mob at that point. Well, well, so it
wasn't he wasn't.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
The double life was kind of not so much of
a hassle as it used to be at that point.
So I think, if you know, ever got crushed, he
never took those pills. Oh and he never developed that
heroin addiction. He would have kept his burry to the
day he died.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
The way he got into the outfit.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I'm sorry, but I really did chuckle because I thought
it was the coolest damn thing because the way that
because I thought he was gonna get his butt kicked,
and he didn't get his butt kicked.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
They invited him into the circle.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
I I really did laugh at that moment because I'm going,
of course, that's exactly how it had to happen.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, he saw this drug dealer.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
He was seventeen years old, and he was kicked out
of his house at gunpoint by his mom, which kind
of gives you a little bit of history on their family.
And because he was protesting or divorced, and he wasn't
happy about it, and the mom, so get the fuck
out of my house.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Sorry for sweater, you can say that. And so he
was living out of his.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Car and he had no money, and he was broke
and hungry and desperate and decided to have this bright
idea to rob this local drug dealer that he saw,
and he did it very successfully, and he did it
in a way that was very clever and well thought out.
And unfortunately that drug dealer was the nephew of Coppo
in the outfit. And so when the nephew goes to
(11:06):
the uncle and says, uncle, I was robbed and I
know where he is.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Let's go get him.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
These two goons walk up to Ken you sitting at
a restaurant with the stash and the cash.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
He thinks he's going to get whacked.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
But yeah, that Coppo says, did you rob my nephew?
And he says, yes, I did, and he goes, well,
how did you do it? He told him how he
did it and it was very clever, and he said, well,
do you need a job and my dad said yes,
and that's the end of that.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
My dad's working for the outfit. Everything changes.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
How long did it take to sink into you as
to what he was up to or is it still
sinking into you now where you just have to deal
with it and forgive it as you go along the first.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Couple of years, So twenty fourteen is when he told
me the first for the first time. So, yeah, it's
a shocker because I'm dealing with a heroined it could
father that I'm putting through a rehab and that's enough.
And so when I have this truth bomb dropped on me,
it's a lot and I almost just kind of like,
you know, brush it off as some kind of heroin Hayes,
you know, hangover. But the stories kept on getting more
(12:11):
real and vibrant, and you know, he as he got
more and more sober and was starting to come back
to his old self, the stories continued, and I, you know,
I had to.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Accept the fact that these were real.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
And then over the years, you know, he would write down,
you know, he text me stuff or give me a
little voice memos of memories that would come pop into
his head. And so over a course of four or
five years, I really got a sense of the place
and the time and the things that he went through.
And that's and that's when in twenty seventeen, I said, Hey,
we need to sit down.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I just want to interview you just a couple hours, wow, because.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Like I'm getting all these like, you know, one memory here,
one thought there kind of thing like let's just sit
down and let's do it.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
And at that point he was ready and I was
ready to hear it.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Well, every preacher across this country will sit there and say,
before you go into heaven, you're gonna have to sit
down with God and explain your story. Do you feel
like that that you were the first listener for your father,
because my god, I mean what I mean the way
he explained how he went into a room one day
just to handcuff that dude so that other people could
come in, and then he has to stay there the
entire night until the carpet people come. I mean, I've
(13:12):
never heard it ever described like that before. And that's
the drama that you bring with this podcast.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Oh yeah, it's it's wild.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
And there's so many stories like that that I couldn't
even put in the show. You know, I had to
be I had to pick and choose. It was wonderments
that I that I felt I could broadcast, what I mean.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
So so yes, there's a lot going on there.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
And you know, for him to tell me these things,
you know, no father wants to ever tell their son
that they that they have a flaw. You know, you
you you have this, you know, I have my ten
year old son. The last thing I want to do
is tell him that, you know that whatever I screwed
up there, I killed somebody, or I ran whorse or whatever,
or I'm a drug adds you know, like that's awful,
(13:55):
Like that's my nightmares is to have to say something
like that to my own kid. But yeah, so for
him to unleash all the stuff on me, it really
took a lot of time and a lot of trust.
And on my part, I had to be vulnerable enough
to allow him to open up to me.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
So and that took a lot of strength. And you
know that was tough.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Because we were estranged for for many years because of
his addiction and what it did to our family.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
So it was a lot. It took a long time
for it to happen.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
But I think once he got comfortable, the floodgates open
because it just felt good to finally tell somebody.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
See, there has to be a side of your personality,
Kyle that when he was sharing that story that you
had to have sat there and thought you were fascinated
with it.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
It was it's like shut the front door. What else
did you do? Give me more?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
I mean absolutely, I mean that's you know, I've been
producing documentaries for a long time too, so I had
I had the basics of understanding of how to how
to interview people when this was happening. So yeah, you know,
interviewing is about listening and being a good listener and
being open and pointing out nuances and expounding on things
(15:02):
and not just asking the questions that you've written down,
but having a conversation. And I think he'd never had
a conversation about this before, so it was a unique
thing for him obviously, and for me too to that
this is my dad telling you these things. It's not
just some random person that I'm interviewing.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
So yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
It was a very weird process that fortunately became more
and more organic over the years, and now we have
you know.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
We've got this.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
It's a very unique relationship and it's not great, but
it's still like we're able to tell each other everything.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
My dad and I.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
You and I are both editors. We have to go
in after the fact, I mean because right, I mean
when when you're doing it the interview and you're putting
it together, that right there, to me is the performance.
But then when you've got to go back and you've
got to edit it, when do you hear it in
your heart that it's like, no, that can't go in.
I'm not going to get rid of it, but that
can't go into the performance.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, you know, we have a rule no names. Yeah,
and I mean no names and no details.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
And you know, there are some details that we kept in,
but we definitely took out all the names. And we
did that because we just didn't want to have the
questions of we didn't want to be blamed for you know,
digging up bodies or telling you know, or pointing a
finger at somebody where I just wanted to it's not
necessary to tell a good story, you don't need that
information because as long as soon as you trust that
(16:25):
the storyteller is taking you on a journey, you don't
need to know if you know what the real name
of a person was, as long as you understand what
took place. And so I think there were times when
things got a little too detailed in his storytelling.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And those are the things that I had to leave out.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
And so it's more I don't want to say it's
more generalized, but it's it's it's less individualized.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
I guess you can say, So, where did you learn
this art of forward motion though, because I mean, the
whole podcast is everything is moving forward. Not everybody masters
that art form.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I don't know, man, It's just something I'm good at.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I guess I've been doing it for a long time
and I just let my instincts be my guide.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I spent a lot of I didn't really have any
help on this.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
I just spent a lot of time in a dark
room all by myself, you know, as editors do, just
kind of going through footage and understanding what the story
is and how to tell it. You know, a lot
of times just staring at his space and letting my
mind wander and trying to figure out how to like
tie two threads together. It took a long time, you know,
and it's weird because it's emotional, because it's your family,
(17:32):
and also as the storyteller, as the narrator, I guess
you could say I realized that I had to insert
myself into the story yep, as the guide for to
really work. I can't just let my dad talk or
whatever it'll be these people and let them talk. I
have to be the guide. I have to be the
listener and put myself in a listener's perspective.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
But I also have.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
To be open and vulnerable with my own emotions and
you know, and basically lay it all out there. It's
like everyone else was doing. I had to participate just
like everyone else was participating.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
In order for it to work.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yeah, because you definitely played the straight guy. And and
what I mean in radio, you know, somebody somebody's got
you got you have to have a dick, a door
and a deer and and you you definitely are the
one that's that's bringing that storyline together while your father
is animated the way that he is. But somebody still
has to keep me as a listener level as to
why I'm here, Here's what we're gonna do. Get excited,
you know. So you're definitely in control of our emotions.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Uh, well, good, that means it's working.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Where can people go to find out more about you?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
About me? Yeah, I guess you can just google my name.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
But but yeah, you know, I'm a I'm a producer,
I'm an editor of you know, I've made a bunch
of movies and uh, you know, I'm a musician.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I've got a band.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
And actually, my my music is in the show. It's
the song I play during the credits. That's my own music.
And those songs I wrote about about this stuff. I
wrote it about the stories that are in Kirk County
and my relationship with my father, so kind of just
and by the way, all that stuff was written like
that was never supposed to be a part of the show.
It's just like another avenue for me to kind of,
(19:06):
you know, blow off steam and process this stuff. So
the fact that all came together in this one package
that is Krek County is really special for me because
obviously this is my life.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Well, I'm so glad that you answered the call. I'm
so glad you answered the call. Please come back to
this show anytime in the future. The door is always
going to be open for you.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Kyle.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Thank you, sir. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
You'd be brilliant today.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Okay, all right, man, thanks for having me.
How are you doing today.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hey, good morning. I'm great excited to talk with.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
You, dude, No, I am.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
I'm excited to share a conversation with you because you
know how it is when it comes to the mafia,
it's almost like Marvel and DC to us, and you
have lived this, I mean, you agree that because they
are to many of us, they are superheroes.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
They are it's like, oh my god, look at what
you've got. You're on the cool side of the town.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Yeah, I guess you call them anti heroes more than heroes.
But yeah, it's one of those things. It's like, it's
this legendary thing. You feel like you're always you know,
on the outside, you know, looking in, but when you're
on the inside, it's it's very strange, especially when you
realize that you're on the inside. When you know when
you're twenty eight years old, that you've always been on
(00:45):
the inside and you just didn't even know it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
That's the real shocker. Yeah, that's the story of Crook County.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
I was going to ask you about that because you know,
there's a side of me that loves the idea that
you can, you know, secretly lead a double life, because
to me, that's explorating, exploring. But the thing is, though,
is that when it comes to your side of the story,
that's where my empathy comes in. I'm going, oh my god,
I can't believe that you even had to deal with
this in your life, because how do you trust anybody
now this day forward?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Well, you know, I don't try. I work in.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Hollywoods don't trust anybody anyway. But I can tell by
your lafe you know exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
What I'm talking about. But but yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
You know, obviously you would like to trust your parents,
you would hope so. And I trusted my parents when
I was a kid, I looked up to him. My
dad was my hero. He literally saved my life from
this crazy dog attack that happened when I was four
years old, And you literally saved the day. I'd be
dead if if he was at work that day. So
you know, I had this like, you know, huge, I
(01:44):
put him on a pedestal and then you know, later unfortunately,
later on in high school, he had this awful heroin
addiction that completely took over his life and destroyed our
whole family unit and turned them into a monster. And
we won our separate and I was strange. My father
for many years until twenty thirteen when he called me
(02:05):
for the first time in a long time and he
was desperate and he basically asked for my help and
said that he needs to go to rehab or he's
this is his last day, or he's going to die.
So I had to save his life that day. I
put him on a playing out to la where I live,
and then put him into rehab and he went through
that whole process of getting clean, and when he got clean,
that's when he finally told me who he really.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Was in his history in them up. You know what, shock,
my friend.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
One of the most fascinating things that you do on
this podcast, and I think that you're brilliant and sharing
It was the second that you turned on the microphone
and he didn't know how to talk into it. You
guys really didn't know where to begin and stuff. And
I just I just believe in the authenticity of why
you did that and how you did that because it
to me as a listener, it brought me even closer
to listening to what was going on because it wasn't
(02:49):
a stage act. It wasn't going to be something that
was written out, and that's I sort of got that's
the reason why I'm addicted to this podcast because it
really is a story.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Oh well, thank you, Yeah, no, there's you know, obviously
it's highly produced. And when I say high they produced,
I mean I put a lot of thought and time into,
you know, doing the music and the sound and making
sure the story is correct and the story is engaging.
But yeah, at the end of the day, it's just
a raw interview between the father and a son trying
to figure out what the hell is going on. And
I tried to keep in as many of those little moments,
(03:22):
you know, that are unscripted as.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Possible, because that's the reality. Just like you said, that's
the real thing that happened.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
And it's important to understand how the relationship is and
how it's developing, and how the conversation is coming out
of out of ken because you know, obviously he's not
it's not easy for him to tell the story. He
has to like put himself there and kind of like
work up the energy and you know, the almost bravery
to kind of unleash these awful truths on his firstborn son,
(03:48):
you know, things that that should have stayed buried until
he died.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
But how would you have dealt with that, you know,
if he would not have shared that story, because my
father is gone, my birth father, and I swear to God,
I wish I knew what he really.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Was like because I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
So so I'm kind of very jealous of you that
your father at least got to sit down and talk
with you.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Well, I can appreciate that, you know, I saw my
grandma die. That was like one of the first people
I saw die, and I always regretted not asking her
what her life was like.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
I always tell people that, you know, your relatives are
the most entertaining, you know, most informative resource you have,
you should ask them questions. And so, yeah, I kind
of had this amazing opportunity to really dive deep with
my father and understand who he really is. Because there's
there's really not a lot of people in my family
that I can talk to. So this was a unique
(04:40):
scenario and has unlocked a lot of other conversations with
everyone else. It's kind of really opened up the doors
to the history of our entire family, and people are
starting to talk and people that never would have talked before.
So it's been a really kind of incredible experience overall.
But yeah, to watch him tell me who he really
is after thinking I know a man for my whole life,
(05:03):
it's a very odd situation to be in. It's it's
a very bizarre feeling.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
You're so lucky in the way that my mantra is
is that share your story or someone will write it
for you. Getting this story for you is something that
is not going to be written by somebody else because
you got the story and the fact that you've got
you that you recorded. See that inspires me as a
broadcaster because pitch, volume, and tone are everything. Words in
a book are the interpretation of that particular day. But
(05:29):
you've got his physical voice.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Yeah, and you know there's you can really see the emotion,
you know, and and it's like you can really read
between the lines, you know, when he says something, how
he says it, just like you say you're pitch, You're
telling your inflection. You know. It tells so much more
of the story than just the words on paper. So yeah,
to be able to have this is priceless and and
more than that, just to be able to know who
(05:54):
he really is. And as a father, I have a
ten year old son, you know he doesn't have a
grandpa you, and so I want to be able to
explain to him why he doesn't have a grandpa and I.
And when he's old enough, I can play this for
him and he can listen, and he can understand what
I went through, and he can understand, you know, what
my father went through, and what his uncle my brother
(06:14):
went through, and his grandma my mother went through. And
I think he can really get a sense of where
he comes from, more than anyone in our family ever has.
And I think that's really valuable. And honestly, that was
the original reason I started this in the first place.
I just wanted to have something, some kind of foundation
that I can build off of to explain who we
are and where we come from. And it just as
a filmmaker, of course, it naturally turned itself into serious.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
See I was going to ask you about that.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I mean, did you go into this project when the
moment you hit you know, play and record was it?
Did you know you were going to do a podcast
or were you just trying to capture history in a
moment that you could share forward.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Yeah, always just trying to capture the first interview with
my dad, I was just trying to capture history because
I have no idea how he's going to come off,
you know, in an interview, and if it's you know,
I just wanted the information. But you know, you you
sound like you've listened to some of the episodes, like
he's really really good at telling his story. Yeah, and
he's he's very you know, inomatic, and there's a lot
(07:10):
of character and you can kind of like really feel
like you're there with him, and he tells a great story,
you know, the way the way he words things and
the way he times things out, and so it was
like very relevant within the first thirty minutes, like oh
this this could be something you know, but that was
never really original to see.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I'm not shocked by him being a storyteller. The reason
why is because for him to do what he has done,
he had to have been a negotiator and some sort
of salesman in the way that he he got so
good at what he did. And so I mean, and
especially when it comes to leading a double life like
like he did. I mean, to me, he's he's that
that voice. But my question to you is, did you
(07:47):
have to go back and do research on what he
said to find out if you know, if the continuity
played out properly.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Absolutely, And you know a lot of the things that
he did are not on red, so there's not a
lot of search to be done, you know all this.
You know, it's it's not like they wrote all this
stuff down and kept files.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Of everybody they killed, you know what I mean. It's
it's all it's kind of all word of mouth.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
And and the way that I was able to in
my journey is to kind of, you know, I don't
want to say prove, but you know maybe this isn't
a lie, you.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Know, is to go and ask his you know, high.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
School girlfriend, you know, or to go to ask his
twin brother, Rich.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Who obviously knows him extremely well.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
To go and ask his his firefighter partner of twenty years,
if he saw anything, and kind of collaborate, you know,
all these different stories and put them all together and
and and yes it corresponds.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
So absolutely his heroin addiction was it him trying to
feed the addiction or run away from the addiction.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Well, he was in a terrible fire accident, who was
injured and almost killed. He was crushed by a ladder
and a firefighter wearing a full oxygen oxygen tank and
the whole nine, and put him in the hospital, and
he had a bunch of surgeries, and of course they
put him on a bunch of painkillers, and the painkillers,
you know, they stopped prescribing him.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
After a while.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
And my dad he just had, I guess, an addictive
personality and took to those pills. And when there were
no more pills to be had, he took to the
streets and started doing street heroin to kind of fill
that void, and it just got out of control. So
I don't it was never in the cards. I don't
think he was using it to cope. I think he
(09:37):
got away for the most part. In his head, he
was getting away scot free. So I don't think there's much.
By the time he got that accident, he was for
the most part, you know, mostly removed.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
From the mob at that point. Well, well, so it
wasn't he wasn't.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
The double life was kind of not so much of
a hassle as it used to be at that point.
So I think, if you know, ever got crushed, he
never took those pills. Oh and he never developed that
heroin addiction. He would have kept his burry to the
day he died.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
The way he got into the outfit.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I'm sorry, but I really did chuckle because I thought
it was the coolest damn thing because the way that
because I thought he was gonna get his butt kicked,
and he didn't get his butt kicked.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
They invited him into the circle.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
I I really did laugh at that moment because I'm going,
of course, that's exactly how it had to happen.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, he saw this drug dealer.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
He was seventeen years old, and he was kicked out
of his house at gunpoint by his mom, which kind
of gives you a little bit of history on their family.
And because he was protesting or divorced, and he wasn't
happy about it, and the mom, so get the fuck
out of my house.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Sorry for sweater, you can say that. And so he
was living out of his.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Car and he had no money, and he was broke
and hungry and desperate and decided to have this bright
idea to rob this local drug dealer that he saw,
and he did it very successfully, and he did it
in a way that was very clever and well thought out.
And unfortunately that drug dealer was the nephew of Coppo
in the outfit. And so when the nephew goes to
(11:06):
the uncle and says, uncle, I was robbed and I
know where he is.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Let's go get him.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
These two goons walk up to Ken you sitting at
a restaurant with the stash and the cash.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
He thinks he's going to get whacked.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
But yeah, that Coppo says, did you rob my nephew?
And he says, yes, I did, and he goes, well,
how did you do it? He told him how he
did it and it was very clever, and he said, well,
do you need a job and my dad said yes,
and that's the end of that.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
My dad's working for the outfit. Everything changes.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
How long did it take to sink into you as
to what he was up to or is it still
sinking into you now where you just have to deal
with it and forgive it as you go along the first.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Couple of years, So twenty fourteen is when he told
me the first for the first time. So, yeah, it's
a shocker because I'm dealing with a heroined it could
father that I'm putting through a rehab and that's enough.
And so when I have this truth bomb dropped on me,
it's a lot and I almost just kind of like,
you know, brush it off as some kind of heroin Hayes,
you know, hangover. But the stories kept on getting more
(12:11):
real and vibrant, and you know, he as he got
more and more sober and was starting to come back
to his old self, the stories continued, and I, you know,
I had to.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Accept the fact that these were real.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
And then over the years, you know, he would write down,
you know, he text me stuff or give me a
little voice memos of memories that would come pop into
his head. And so over a course of four or
five years, I really got a sense of the place
and the time and the things that he went through.
And that's and that's when in twenty seventeen, I said, Hey,
we need to sit down.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I just want to interview you just a couple hours, wow, because.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Like I'm getting all these like, you know, one memory here,
one thought there kind of thing like let's just sit
down and let's do it.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
And at that point he was ready and I was
ready to hear it.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Well, every preacher across this country will sit there and say,
before you go into heaven, you're gonna have to sit
down with God and explain your story. Do you feel
like that that you were the first listener for your father,
because my god, I mean what I mean the way
he explained how he went into a room one day
just to handcuff that dude so that other people could
come in, and then he has to stay there the
entire night until the carpet people come. I mean, I've
(13:12):
never heard it ever described like that before. And that's
the drama that you bring with this podcast.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Oh yeah, it's it's wild.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
And there's so many stories like that that I couldn't
even put in the show. You know, I had to
be I had to pick and choose. It was wonderments
that I that I felt I could broadcast, what I mean.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
So so yes, there's a lot going on there.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
And you know, for him to tell me these things,
you know, no father wants to ever tell their son
that they that they have a flaw. You know, you
you you have this, you know, I have my ten
year old son. The last thing I want to do
is tell him that, you know that whatever I screwed
up there, I killed somebody, or I ran whorse or whatever,
or I'm a drug adds you know, like that's awful,
(13:55):
Like that's my nightmares is to have to say something
like that to my own kid. But yeah, so for
him to unleash all the stuff on me, it really
took a lot of time and a lot of trust.
And on my part, I had to be vulnerable enough
to allow him to open up to me.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
So and that took a lot of strength. And you
know that was tough.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Because we were estranged for for many years because of
his addiction and what it did to our family.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
So it was a lot. It took a long time
for it to happen.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
But I think once he got comfortable, the floodgates open
because it just felt good to finally tell somebody.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
See, there has to be a side of your personality,
Kyle that when he was sharing that story that you
had to have sat there and thought you were fascinated
with it.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
It was it's like shut the front door. What else
did you do? Give me more?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
I mean absolutely, I mean that's you know, I've been
producing documentaries for a long time too, so I had
I had the basics of understanding of how to how
to interview people when this was happening. So yeah, you know,
interviewing is about listening and being a good listener and
being open and pointing out nuances and expounding on things
(15:02):
and not just asking the questions that you've written down,
but having a conversation. And I think he'd never had
a conversation about this before, so it was a unique
thing for him obviously, and for me too to that
this is my dad telling you these things. It's not
just some random person that I'm interviewing.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
So yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
It was a very weird process that fortunately became more
and more organic over the years, and now we have
you know.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
We've got this.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
It's a very unique relationship and it's not great, but
it's still like we're able to tell each other everything.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
My dad and I.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
You and I are both editors. We have to go
in after the fact, I mean because right, I mean
when when you're doing it the interview and you're putting
it together, that right there, to me is the performance.
But then when you've got to go back and you've
got to edit it, when do you hear it in
your heart that it's like, no, that can't go in.
I'm not going to get rid of it, but that
can't go into the performance.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, you know, we have a rule no names. Yeah,
and I mean no names and no details.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
And you know, there are some details that we kept in,
but we definitely took out all the names. And we
did that because we just didn't want to have the
questions of we didn't want to be blamed for you know,
digging up bodies or telling you know, or pointing a
finger at somebody where I just wanted to it's not
necessary to tell a good story, you don't need that
information because as long as soon as you trust that
(16:25):
the storyteller is taking you on a journey, you don't
need to know if you know what the real name
of a person was, as long as you understand what
took place. And so I think there were times when
things got a little too detailed in his storytelling.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And those are the things that I had to leave out.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
And so it's more I don't want to say it's
more generalized, but it's it's it's less individualized.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
I guess you can say, So, where did you learn
this art of forward motion though, because I mean, the
whole podcast is everything is moving forward. Not everybody masters
that art form.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I don't know, man, It's just something I'm good at.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I guess I've been doing it for a long time
and I just let my instincts be my guide.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I spent a lot of I didn't really have any
help on this.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
I just spent a lot of time in a dark
room all by myself, you know, as editors do, just
kind of going through footage and understanding what the story
is and how to tell it. You know, a lot
of times just staring at his space and letting my
mind wander and trying to figure out how to like
tie two threads together. It took a long time, you know,
and it's weird because it's emotional, because it's your family,
(17:32):
and also as the storyteller, as the narrator, I guess
you could say I realized that I had to insert
myself into the story yep, as the guide for to
really work. I can't just let my dad talk or
whatever it'll be these people and let them talk. I
have to be the guide. I have to be the
listener and put myself in a listener's perspective.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
But I also have.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
To be open and vulnerable with my own emotions and
you know, and basically lay it all out there. It's
like everyone else was doing. I had to participate just
like everyone else was participating.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
In order for it to work.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yeah, because you definitely played the straight guy. And and
what I mean in radio, you know, somebody somebody's got
you got you have to have a dick, a door
and a deer and and you you definitely are the
one that's that's bringing that storyline together while your father
is animated the way that he is. But somebody still
has to keep me as a listener level as to
why I'm here, Here's what we're gonna do. Get excited,
you know. So you're definitely in control of our emotions.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Uh, well, good, that means it's working.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Where can people go to find out more about you?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
About me? Yeah, I guess you can just google my name.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
But but yeah, you know, I'm a I'm a producer,
I'm an editor of you know, I've made a bunch
of movies and uh, you know, I'm a musician.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I've got a band.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
And actually, my my music is in the show. It's
the song I play during the credits. That's my own music.
And those songs I wrote about about this stuff. I
wrote it about the stories that are in Kirk County
and my relationship with my father, so kind of just
and by the way, all that stuff was written like
that was never supposed to be a part of the show.
It's just like another avenue for me to kind of,
(19:06):
you know, blow off steam and process this stuff. So
the fact that all came together in this one package
that is Krek County is really special for me because
obviously this is my life.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Well, I'm so glad that you answered the call. I'm
so glad you answered the call. Please come back to
this show anytime in the future. The door is always
going to be open for you.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Kyle.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Thank you, sir. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
You'd be brilliant today.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Okay, all right, man, thanks for having me.
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