December 13, 2025 • 11 mins
Emmy Award–winning music journalist Alan Light is the author of numerous books including The Holy or the Broken: Leonard Cohen, Jeff Buckley, and the Unlikely Ascent of “Hallelujah” (which was adapted into an acclaimed documentary), as well as Let’s Go Crazy: Prince and the Making of Purple Rain and biographies of Johnny Cash, Nina Simone, and the Beastie Boys. He was the cowriter of bestselling memoirs by Gregg Allman and Peter Frampton. Alan was a senior writer at Rolling Stone and the editor-in-chief of Vibe and Spin. He contributes frequently to The New York Times, Esquire, and The Wall Street Journal, among many publications, and cohosts the podcast Sound Up! With Mark Goodman and Alan Light.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I first arrived inside this forest in November of nineteen
ninety two, and right away I had to know what
is the history of this lay of land, what happened
here and how did it happen? What was the foresight
of what was about to take place? The arrival of humans?
Four stories on ero dot net A R r Oe
dot Net. Enjoy the exploration, Allan. I got to tell
(00:22):
you something. I made a promise to myself, as that
fifteen year old kid in Billing's Montana, that I would
never see Fleetwood Mac live because I didn't want to
lose what I felt when I opened up Rumors, and
I felt something that I just to this day I
still own it in my soul, and I think that
seeing them live would take that away.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Wow, Okay, I guess it's the roll of the dice
of whether it would, you know, enhance or detract from
the experience, you know, to see them up there altogether.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Well, you're speaking my street when you jump into this,
because Rumors has been such a major part of not
just my life, We're talking millions of lives around the world.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Dude. Oh yeah, out and for coming up on fifty
years now. Nope, since this record came out in nineteen
seventy seven, and yes, I thought it when it came
out then to I'll Own My Age. That's okay, But
that you're talking about, you know, not just one generation,
but really two generations later, who continue to embrace this record,
(01:20):
Who and who continue to run towards those feelings that
you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I can't be the only one, though. That was a
little upset that it wasn't a two record set, since
Frampton Comes Alive really kind of you know, you know,
it spoiled me and I wanted more from Fleetwood Mac
and I thought, okay, then you've got to go back
either to their pass or wait for Tusk.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah. I mean, of course they went for the double
album after but I think, look, part of the beauty
of rumors, of course, is how perfect, you know, every
second of this record is. There is not a track
you would skip. There is not a second that you
would you know that were the editor, where the intensity
dips at all. In fact, so much so that Silver Springs,
(02:00):
you know, an incredible song like that couldn't even fit
on the record because it would have made the LP
sides too long. Back in the vinyl days when you
could only do twenty minutes on a side. And Silver Springs,
which has become so much a part for you know,
for younger listeners now you know, the TikTok moment of
that performance of Silver Springs when they got back together
(02:22):
in nineteen ninety seven, for the dance has become a
defining moment for Fleetwood Mac and become sort of an
introduction to Rumors for a lot of listeners when it
wasn't even on the album in the first class.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
So did you sit down with kN Kallay, because I've
been with him three times. We had we had an
Indian dinner together, and my god, just to hear his
passion even today, it's still very much active in him.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Well. And look his book about the you know, it's
called Making Rumors, is such a great account of the
sessions and the making of the album. And that's part
of the reason that that isn't really the book I
wanted to write. I mean, that stuff is out there
where there's the classic albums, you know, document on VH one,
there's Ken's book, The story of the soap opera of
Rumors and the breakups and the craziness and the tension
(03:08):
you know, obviously I have to do that in a
concise version for this book, But what I really wanted
to look at was what is this appeal for young people? Now?
Why is it that Rumors was the biggest selling rock
album of twenty twenty four of anything old or new.
You know that it's the most streamed album of the
(03:30):
twentieth century on Spotify, more than any Beatles album or
Nirvana or whatever you might think. So what is it
that keeps attracting young listeners? Why is it that it
still feels so relevant and so resonant, you know, not
just back in the day when it was one of
the biggest albums of all time, but continues to you know,
to get this this reaction and you know, this intensity
(03:54):
from teenagers from kids today. What is you know? That
was what I really wanted to look at in this book,
because how does an album again that's almost fifty years old,
still feel so significant and so relevant? You know in
twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Okay is one of the needles in the haystack. The
very fact that I learned something very valuable inside your book,
and that is that Fleetwood Mac was thinking about the
Beg's when they did secondhand news. Is it possible that
Barry Gibbs rhythm and kind of soulful flavor is in
that song and it flows through the entire album, And
that's the reason why it's still here.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Look, there's so many things. I mean, I think you're
when you're talking about an album with three you know,
not just not just three different singers and songwriters, but
three different singers and songwriters as fantastic as Lindsey bucking Up,
Stevinix and Christine McVie. I mean, come up with another
band that can put three different voices, three different writers
(04:51):
up front like that. You know, the variety that that
allows for, the different sounds, the different perspectives out of
constantly shifting point of view that you're getting, that's different
than any other band. I mean, the Beatles almost do that,
but George isn't exactly an equal partner with John and Paul,
you know, even even there, right, So, I think you know,
(05:15):
you're talking about so many different influences. People going through
these experiences. You know, they're all going through these breakups,
but they're all at different stages of processing their anger,
their resentment. There you know, how resolved they are to
it again. I think for young listeners, for adolescents going
through those feelings, maybe for the first time, they're hearing
(05:35):
this full spectrum, this range of emotions that they can
grab onto and you know, and sort of learn about,
you know, learn about life, learn about how you go
through heartbreak, you know what the pain of that is,
what the what the after effects of that are Rumors
does something that no other record does, and drawing from
you know, you're saying, there's there's the beg's, there's you
(05:58):
know what. I learned that the Spinners were an influence
on the sound of Dreams, that they wanted to get
that sort of R and B groove going, which if
you think about the rhythm section in Dreams, okay, I
can sort of hear that. Then there's the acousta. There's
something like never Going Back Again, that's just a purely
acoustic song. There are so many things that are going
on in this album, and I think for young again,
(06:20):
for listeners who maybe didn't grow up listening to albums,
it almost plays more like a playlist for them because
it's not one guy singing at them for forty five minutes.
It's all of these different things that are happening.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Please do not move. There's more with Alan Light coming
up next, the name of the book, don't stop. Why
we still love Fleetwood, Max Rumors. Let's get back to
that talk with Alan Light. You are really good with
your written word in the way that you painted a
picture that I want inside a frame inside my home,
(06:52):
and that is of Stevie Nicks with her journals and
knittings sitting on that bed. Because as a daily writer,
if I could just see her with those journals, you
have no idea how powerful that would hit my heart.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, I mean these are you know, the cult of
Stevie Nicks runs deep as you as you know, especially
with young people. She has really become the the female
rock and roll icon, you know, sort of more than anybody.
If you saw Taylor Swift on Stephen Colbert the other
night when he asked her who does she turn to
for guidance, the first thing she said is, well, I'm
lucky enough to be friends with Stevie Nicks. Oh my god.
(07:26):
And if you listen to that New Tailor single, if
you listen to Life of Ophelia, which is the number
one time in the country right now, that groove is
one one hundred percent the sound of dreams like that
is listen to the basin drums, and that is the
sound they're going for. So this is a thing that
you know, rumors plays like not like a classic, not
(07:47):
like you know, something you're supposed to listen to, but
for young people, for you know, it plays like a
pop record that they would listen to today. That's what I
was really fascinated by and spoke to, you know, thirty
some post millennials about their relationship to this album and
how they found it and what their feelings are about it.
And that was the thing that you know, really got
(08:08):
me interested in, you know, in pursuing this project.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
All right, I want to know who Suzanne and Adam
are and I want to know if they've heard a
lot of rumors from Fleetwood Mac. And I'm because I'm
sure that Irwin, Irwin knows about Fleewood Mac. And boy,
you got to go get another needle because you burned
that album out.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
That is that is my wife and my son and
my dad to who to whom I dedicate this book
And actually, I if I didn't say it really was
my son and watch when he was in high school
and watching him and his friends, and in this sense
that Rumors was and they all knew this album. They
didn't care about the other seventies, and they didn't care
about Hotel California. Yeah, Born to Run. They cared about Rumors.
(08:49):
They all knew it. And that was what started me
thinking about what is it? What is it that's so
special about this album that you know, sixteen seventeen year
olds are are listening to it. They're not listening to
the rest of the other classic rock stuff sounds old
to them, This one doesn't. What is that about?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So now let me ask you a question. Do you
think that now that Lindsay has gone out to do
this last solo John, because he kind of kicked his
butt out of the band, do you think that he's
going to come back to the band a wiser man
in the way, Because I still believe there is another
Rumors inside this band. It's waiting to get out. They
just can't find the time to get together.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Look, who know the history, the chaos and Fleetwood Mac
pre goes back even before you know the other members
ever heard the names Lindsay and Stevie. When they were
still a blues band in England. They were losing members
to cults. They were, you know, addiction to on stage fights.
There's a point where there's a fake Fleetwood Mac that's
touring because the real Fleetwood Mac couldn't get it together
(09:51):
to go out and tour. So, you know, chaos surrounds
this band from day one. After Christine McVie died, you know,
they were pretty adamant saying we're not gonna you know,
there's no Fleewood Back without her. We're not gonna do it.
Now there are these rumors Lindsay and Stevie are talking again.
They agreed to put out the Buckingham nixt album that
they made, you know before they joined the band, that
(10:13):
had been out of print for all those years. We're
coming up on a fiftieth anniversary. Maybe they'll do something,
you know, betting on what Fleetwood Mac is going to
do as a suckers game and I and I won't
do it. It's hard to it's hard to imagine, but it
is never impossible.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Oh, I got ten minutes with you is not enough.
We've got to set up a date and talk some more, dude,
because you're talking about my band, and and and because
I mean they even now do kiss, and I came
from that generation. I mean Fleewood Mac was my kiss.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Well, it's this is this is peak seventies. We're talking
about you know, biggest, biggest album's, biggest artists of all time.
But this is the one that right now, you know,
towers above the others in terms of you know, continued relevance.
And that was, that was what what drew me to
want to spend a couple of years working on a
(11:01):
book about it. So Arrow, anytime you know where to
find me, I'll come back.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
You'd be brilliant today, okay, sir, thank you.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Man'd be well, and thanks so much.
I first arrived inside this forest in November of nineteen
ninety two, and right away I had to know what
is the history of this lay of land, what happened
here and how did it happen? What was the foresight
of what was about to take place? The arrival of humans?
Four stories on ero dot net A R r Oe
dot Net. Enjoy the exploration, Allan. I got to tell
(00:22):
you something. I made a promise to myself, as that
fifteen year old kid in Billing's Montana, that I would
never see Fleetwood Mac live because I didn't want to
lose what I felt when I opened up Rumors, and
I felt something that I just to this day I
still own it in my soul, and I think that
seeing them live would take that away.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Wow, Okay, I guess it's the roll of the dice
of whether it would, you know, enhance or detract from
the experience, you know, to see them up there altogether.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Well, you're speaking my street when you jump into this,
because Rumors has been such a major part of not
just my life, We're talking millions of lives around the world.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Dude. Oh yeah, out and for coming up on fifty
years now. Nope, since this record came out in nineteen
seventy seven, and yes, I thought it when it came
out then to I'll Own My Age. That's okay, But
that you're talking about, you know, not just one generation,
but really two generations later, who continue to embrace this record,
(01:20):
Who and who continue to run towards those feelings that
you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I can't be the only one, though. That was a
little upset that it wasn't a two record set, since
Frampton Comes Alive really kind of you know, you know,
it spoiled me and I wanted more from Fleetwood Mac
and I thought, okay, then you've got to go back
either to their pass or wait for Tusk.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah. I mean, of course they went for the double
album after but I think, look, part of the beauty
of rumors, of course, is how perfect, you know, every
second of this record is. There is not a track
you would skip. There is not a second that you
would you know that were the editor, where the intensity
dips at all. In fact, so much so that Silver Springs,
(02:00):
you know, an incredible song like that couldn't even fit
on the record because it would have made the LP
sides too long. Back in the vinyl days when you
could only do twenty minutes on a side. And Silver Springs,
which has become so much a part for you know,
for younger listeners now you know, the TikTok moment of
that performance of Silver Springs when they got back together
(02:22):
in nineteen ninety seven, for the dance has become a
defining moment for Fleetwood Mac and become sort of an
introduction to Rumors for a lot of listeners when it
wasn't even on the album in the first class.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
So did you sit down with kN Kallay, because I've
been with him three times. We had we had an
Indian dinner together, and my god, just to hear his
passion even today, it's still very much active in him.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Well. And look his book about the you know, it's
called Making Rumors, is such a great account of the
sessions and the making of the album. And that's part
of the reason that that isn't really the book I
wanted to write. I mean, that stuff is out there
where there's the classic albums, you know, document on VH one,
there's Ken's book, The story of the soap opera of
Rumors and the breakups and the craziness and the tension
(03:08):
you know, obviously I have to do that in a
concise version for this book, But what I really wanted
to look at was what is this appeal for young people? Now?
Why is it that Rumors was the biggest selling rock
album of twenty twenty four of anything old or new.
You know that it's the most streamed album of the
(03:30):
twentieth century on Spotify, more than any Beatles album or
Nirvana or whatever you might think. So what is it
that keeps attracting young listeners? Why is it that it
still feels so relevant and so resonant, you know, not
just back in the day when it was one of
the biggest albums of all time, but continues to you know,
to get this this reaction and you know, this intensity
(03:54):
from teenagers from kids today. What is you know? That
was what I really wanted to look at in this book,
because how does an album again that's almost fifty years old,
still feel so significant and so relevant? You know in
twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Okay is one of the needles in the haystack. The
very fact that I learned something very valuable inside your book,
and that is that Fleetwood Mac was thinking about the
Beg's when they did secondhand news. Is it possible that
Barry Gibbs rhythm and kind of soulful flavor is in
that song and it flows through the entire album, And
that's the reason why it's still here.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Look, there's so many things. I mean, I think you're
when you're talking about an album with three you know,
not just not just three different singers and songwriters, but
three different singers and songwriters as fantastic as Lindsey bucking Up,
Stevinix and Christine McVie. I mean, come up with another
band that can put three different voices, three different writers
(04:51):
up front like that. You know, the variety that that
allows for, the different sounds, the different perspectives out of
constantly shifting point of view that you're getting, that's different
than any other band. I mean, the Beatles almost do that,
but George isn't exactly an equal partner with John and Paul,
you know, even even there, right, So, I think you know,
(05:15):
you're talking about so many different influences. People going through
these experiences. You know, they're all going through these breakups,
but they're all at different stages of processing their anger,
their resentment. There you know, how resolved they are to
it again. I think for young listeners, for adolescents going
through those feelings, maybe for the first time, they're hearing
(05:35):
this full spectrum, this range of emotions that they can
grab onto and you know, and sort of learn about,
you know, learn about life, learn about how you go
through heartbreak, you know what the pain of that is,
what the what the after effects of that are Rumors
does something that no other record does, and drawing from
you know, you're saying, there's there's the beg's, there's you
(05:58):
know what. I learned that the Spinners were an influence
on the sound of Dreams, that they wanted to get
that sort of R and B groove going, which if
you think about the rhythm section in Dreams, okay, I
can sort of hear that. Then there's the acousta. There's
something like never Going Back Again, that's just a purely
acoustic song. There are so many things that are going
on in this album, and I think for young again,
(06:20):
for listeners who maybe didn't grow up listening to albums,
it almost plays more like a playlist for them because
it's not one guy singing at them for forty five minutes.
It's all of these different things that are happening.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Please do not move. There's more with Alan Light coming
up next, the name of the book, don't stop. Why
we still love Fleetwood, Max Rumors. Let's get back to
that talk with Alan Light. You are really good with
your written word in the way that you painted a
picture that I want inside a frame inside my home,
(06:52):
and that is of Stevie Nicks with her journals and
knittings sitting on that bed. Because as a daily writer,
if I could just see her with those journals, you
have no idea how powerful that would hit my heart.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, I mean these are you know, the cult of
Stevie Nicks runs deep as you as you know, especially
with young people. She has really become the the female
rock and roll icon, you know, sort of more than anybody.
If you saw Taylor Swift on Stephen Colbert the other
night when he asked her who does she turn to
for guidance, the first thing she said is, well, I'm
lucky enough to be friends with Stevie Nicks. Oh my god.
(07:26):
And if you listen to that New Tailor single, if
you listen to Life of Ophelia, which is the number
one time in the country right now, that groove is
one one hundred percent the sound of dreams like that
is listen to the basin drums, and that is the
sound they're going for. So this is a thing that
you know, rumors plays like not like a classic, not
(07:47):
like you know, something you're supposed to listen to, but
for young people, for you know, it plays like a
pop record that they would listen to today. That's what I
was really fascinated by and spoke to, you know, thirty
some post millennials about their relationship to this album and
how they found it and what their feelings are about it.
And that was the thing that you know, really got
(08:08):
me interested in, you know, in pursuing this project.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
All right, I want to know who Suzanne and Adam
are and I want to know if they've heard a
lot of rumors from Fleetwood Mac. And I'm because I'm
sure that Irwin, Irwin knows about Fleewood Mac. And boy,
you got to go get another needle because you burned
that album out.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
That is that is my wife and my son and
my dad to who to whom I dedicate this book
And actually, I if I didn't say it really was
my son and watch when he was in high school
and watching him and his friends, and in this sense
that Rumors was and they all knew this album. They
didn't care about the other seventies, and they didn't care
about Hotel California. Yeah, Born to Run. They cared about Rumors.
(08:49):
They all knew it. And that was what started me
thinking about what is it? What is it that's so
special about this album that you know, sixteen seventeen year
olds are are listening to it. They're not listening to
the rest of the other classic rock stuff sounds old
to them, This one doesn't. What is that about?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So now let me ask you a question. Do you
think that now that Lindsay has gone out to do
this last solo John, because he kind of kicked his
butt out of the band, do you think that he's
going to come back to the band a wiser man
in the way, Because I still believe there is another
Rumors inside this band. It's waiting to get out. They
just can't find the time to get together.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Look, who know the history, the chaos and Fleetwood Mac
pre goes back even before you know the other members
ever heard the names Lindsay and Stevie. When they were
still a blues band in England. They were losing members
to cults. They were, you know, addiction to on stage fights.
There's a point where there's a fake Fleetwood Mac that's
touring because the real Fleetwood Mac couldn't get it together
(09:51):
to go out and tour. So, you know, chaos surrounds
this band from day one. After Christine McVie died, you know,
they were pretty adamant saying we're not gonna you know,
there's no Fleewood Back without her. We're not gonna do it.
Now there are these rumors Lindsay and Stevie are talking again.
They agreed to put out the Buckingham nixt album that
they made, you know before they joined the band, that
(10:13):
had been out of print for all those years. We're
coming up on a fiftieth anniversary. Maybe they'll do something,
you know, betting on what Fleetwood Mac is going to
do as a suckers game and I and I won't
do it. It's hard to it's hard to imagine, but it
is never impossible.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Oh, I got ten minutes with you is not enough.
We've got to set up a date and talk some more, dude,
because you're talking about my band, and and and because
I mean they even now do kiss, and I came
from that generation. I mean Fleewood Mac was my kiss.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Well, it's this is this is peak seventies. We're talking
about you know, biggest, biggest album's, biggest artists of all time.
But this is the one that right now, you know,
towers above the others in terms of you know, continued relevance.
And that was, that was what what drew me to
want to spend a couple of years working on a
(11:01):
book about it. So Arrow, anytime you know where to
find me, I'll come back.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
You'd be brilliant today, okay, sir, thank you.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Man'd be well, and thanks so much.
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