January 27, 2025 • 18 mins
Murder on Songbird Road revisits the stabbing death of an 11-year-old girl in Southern Illinois and the subsequent arrest and conviction of her father's fiancée for the crime. In this series, veteran true-crime host Lauren Bright Pacheco teams up with criminal defense attorney Bob Motta to investigate whether the case-one that tore apart a rural community, sparking controversy, corruption, and ongoing questions-was truly solved, or if an innocent woman remains wrongfully convicted. Episodes available here: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-murder-on-songbird-road-251918548/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, Errow, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I love how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:04):
The two of you you have created something here that
is just so riveting. I mean you can't peel yourself
away from it. And the way that you really kind
of bring these episodes forward, it's like, Okay, tell me more,
tell me more, because I want to figure it out
with you is what it is.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I so appreciate that because that's exactly what we're hoping.
You know, this one's unfolding and continues to unfold in
real time, and we very much want the listener to
be a part of that process.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
So for someone like you, Bob, I mean, did you
ever think that someone in podcasting would be the one
that would help start digging once again and to help
start talking about it and creating that that message forward.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
You know when I was a criminal defense attorney for
a long long time, and what kind of drew me
to podcasting way back in the day was when I
first listened to Cereal. And you know when you kind
of sat there and listen to that particular podcast, no
matter which way you fall on ad Non saied, you
had to appreciate the deep dive into that case, and
(01:09):
it was something that I had just never heard done,
and it was so different than any other kind of
medium out there, and that you have people that were
going out there boots on the ground, that were really
reinvestigating a case from a perspective of not being the government,
so they're not law enforcement, and you know they're going
(01:30):
to ask different questions because typically what you have with
podcasters that are looking into these cases is that they're
not necessarily going in with any kind of preconceived notion
of either innocence or guilt, you know, And that's the
case very much the case with Laura and I with this.
When we first started digging in, we were like, all right, look,
(01:52):
we know what the families are saying. We know obviously
that the family of Jade, the young victim, you know,
they're very much and support of and believe that the
right person was convicted going in, and we know that
Julie's family is saying they got the wrong person, that
Julie was not capable of doing this. So we heard
(02:13):
both sides coming in and we knew both sides, and
Laura and I are both very pragmatic in terms of
kind of being able to kind of pull ourselves away
from that and understanding that there's going to be those
two positions and we're going to go in with our
eyes wide open and we're going to do our own
investigation and we're going to try to figure out if
(02:34):
they got it right. So yeah, no, I mean I
love podcasting for that. I mean, you've seen many many
crimes that where there's been convictions get overturned based on
the work done by podcasters. So yeah, I'm a huge
fan of it.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Well, it's such a new level of journalism in the
way that it's like, Okay, one day it's going to
have to get an Edward R. Morrow Award of some sort,
because you guys are doing things that other people can't
because they're trapped inside their corporate worlds and they've got
to follow that company's rules. Whereas as a podcaster today,
the two of you are out there asking real, honest
to god questions and you're bringing stories together.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
You know, I think that that's also the human element
of it. You cannot substitute face to face conversation with
just assumptions. So that has been something that was very
important to Bob and I. We had to go and
actually move within the community that Beverly lived in and
(03:40):
really hear from the people who live there their perspective,
because keep in mind that, you know, we are revisiting
this case. But she was held in Williamson County in
jail for more than two years before she set foot
in trial, and her case had already been tried in
social media and in the local media before she even
(04:03):
set foot in trial. And it was with the full
presumption of guilt, not innocent innocence. There was not the
presumption of innocence in this case.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
And see situations like that where it's like we've already
made up our mind and so and that's what's great
about your podcast is the fact that you're not going
to give me that opportunity to make up my mind
right now. You're going to give me the story so
I can walk with you. I mean, first of all,
Mary in Illinois and most people around the nature and
to go, really, this happened in Marion, Illinois. That seems
like such an innocent little place on the earth.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, it's very very much a small town. And you know,
I mean, but the one thing that you kind of
learn if you follow true crime is that it's always
stranger than real life. I mean, that's just that's a fact.
And then these things happen everywhere, you know, so it's like,
you know, but when you start digging in and when
(04:54):
you get down there and you kind of see how
the town is built in. You know, when you're talking
about a case like with Julie whose mixed race, you
have to take all those kind of socio you know,
kind of sociological things into consideration when you're trying to
figure out what might have happened here, is there were
(05:15):
there biases that are just ingrained in that area in
terms of maybe there's some racism involved, maybe there's you know,
different thoughts in terms of religion that are involved. So
all these different factors really were at play. And when
you kind of look at the jury that was ultimately
empaneled and you look at the judge who had never
(05:38):
tried a murder case, it was kind of like the
perfect storm when you really start digging into the investigation
or lack thereof that was done by law enforcement. So
you have all these factors that really make for the
requirement of a deep dive, you know, and like Laura
and I are happy to do it, and you know,
(06:01):
much like you wanting to hear kind of the next
episode of what's going on. That's very much what our
investigation has been like. You know, everything that we uncover,
we're like, man, we need to dig in more. You know,
it's just been that that type of adventure i'd call it.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
And Eric, I was going to say, keep in mind
that you know this this the Williamson County claim that
they had conducted a thorough investigation. But they arrested this
woman on the ninth of December and the murder occurred
on the fifth of December. So you know how thorough
(06:39):
of an investigation can be conducted in under a week.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
See, I was going to ask you about that. Do
we really need to go back and redefine what thorough is?
And you know there's got to be a time limit
of some sort on there and the length of it,
because you're right, it happened one, two, three, and it's like,
what you've already got them?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
How Yeah, they they announced the murder and the arrest
during the same press conference Rents and that immediately set
a fire on social media and some of the comments
are beyond the pale. You know, we we did mention
(07:15):
race and I wish that that didn't play a part
in this, but I can tell you I have no
shortage of receipts of local members of the community who
were basically calling for a lynching, and and that is
something that I think as a society we have to
face in terms of a rush to judgment and presumptions
(07:38):
based on othering an individual, and that very much is
something that that was in play.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Bobby. Couldn't have been just as easy as walking into
the town and start getting stories. You guys had to
you had you had to do something, build up a relationship,
or people were coming up to you going so what
are you guys up to? What I what do you
mean podcast?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah, No, it was very very much that I mean
obviously from the perspective of Julie Beverly's family, we had
we had some people that were lined up in terms
of people that were willing to talk to us, but
we very much in terms of ethically trying to get
this thing investigated. We wanted to talk to everybody. We
(08:20):
wanted to talk to all sides, and you knows, as
it developed as people kind of talked in this small town,
which is an advantage to doing something like this in
a small town because everybody talks, you know, so I
think it started to get out there that hey, look,
you know, these two aren't aren't out here, you know,
with some kind of agenda. They're really out here trying
(08:43):
to dig for the truth, which opened a lot of
doors to us, which you know, does that mean that
we haven't had doors shut in our face? Yes we have,
but that doesn't stop us from going and trying to
ask the questions. And it's it's one of those things
that as this thing progresses, because we're still investigating now
like this, this podcast is happening in real time, so
(09:04):
in our hope very much, and if near your listeners
out there know anything, and I don't know what market
you're in, but you know, the hope is that if
people are hearing this and they know something, that they
reach out to us, you know. I mean that's what
happens in these types of podcasts, where you'll get somebody
who may know something that's willing to come forward and talk.
(09:26):
So it's yeah, it's it's a it's an unbelievable experience.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Really wow, for the two of you to to, you know,
keep pushing forward, because it's too easy these days to
say all right, we got enough information, let's let's just
wrap things up and well we'll we'll go home. Because
you know, most people when they when they hear them
somebody doing a podcast, they think that it's done one, two,
three overnight, but it's not. And you guys have invested
so much time and energy in this, which I believe
(09:50):
is the absolute best reason why I can't peel myself
away from this.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I appreciate that, you know, and it really boils back
down to intent, and Bob and I share the same intent.
We're not in this to sensationalize a heartbreaking, in gruesome murder.
We're in it to actually figure out what actually happened,
(10:16):
who actually did it, and if that ends up being
Julia Beverly, who is now sitting in prison for fifty
five years, then that is what that is where the
path will end. But in terms of just you know,
(10:37):
trying to get it over with, that's not our intention.
Our intention is to solve this crime.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Body language is everything, Bob. I mean, when you when
you're sitting there recording with somebody, do you watch what
they're doing with their body?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Oh? Absolutely, I mean for me, it's no different than
watching a witness on the stand, right, I mean, you
you're trying to take it all in, you know, demeanor,
you know the obviously you look for kind of the tells,
you know, are they scratching the back of their head,
are they itching the side of their nose, are they
not making eye contact? All those types of things. But
(11:13):
it's really kind of their intention in the way that
they speak to you, you know, where it's going to
give you a lot of clues in terms of this
is where this person's coming from. Do I find this
person to be a credible person in terms of the
way that they're answering And you know, like Laura and said,
you can't do that other than in person. You know
(11:35):
what I'm saying. It's like even over the phone, like
and sometimes we have to have interviews with people over
the phone, but I mean always, always, the best way
to do it, if possible, is in person, face to face,
where you're just able to really kind of dig in
with them. And you know, the one thing that we're
able to do in a podcast like this is we
(11:56):
get below the surface, you know, because that's what matters
in a case like this. You really want to dig,
you want to ask those hard questions of people that
may make them feel a little bit uncomfortable, but you
know that require an answer. So like the whole experience
for us is really driven towards finding out the truth
(12:18):
of what happened here because everyone, everyone involved with it
deserves it.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
The thing is is that it's a story that's growing.
I would love to be in that editing room with
you guys, going, Okay, we're going to pull from this conversation.
Then we're going to pull from this one. But you've
got to put stuff in the middle. Because here's where
I get to be the cheater. I'm reading the transcripts
while the show is on, so therefore I'm sitting there
reading the story. But see, you guys are building the
story you live at first before it comes to me.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And I think that that actually is why we feel
such a personal attachment to doing it the right way.
You know, there is an a privilege actually to earning
someone's ear, and we are very aware that we are
(13:08):
tasked with building content that's compelling enough so that people
want to listen while keeping the integrity of the actual
investigation intact. And you know, I think that we are
always trying to find that that perfect balance. But I
(13:28):
believe in doing so, we are hopefully allowing people to
let what's going through their headphones to open their mind
to the possibility that the system didn't get it right.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
One of the things that as a broadcast instructor, that
we're trying to teach these future students is something that
you guys have mastered here, and that is sound that
I really feel like that you're taking me someplace. You're
not just sitting in a studio, You're bringing me sound.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
That's a very very very intentional approach that Bob and
I both share. But for me, I'm recovering television producer
first and foremost. So I've always tried to have my
podcast be almost like movies you can watch with your
eyes closed. And so I work with Bob and I
(14:23):
both work with a very small, very talented team. So
the soundscaping on this is the direct result of the
talents of Taylor Chicoigne and Evan Tyer, who are our editors,
and they are both incredible musicians on top of it.
So all of the music you hear is original.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
It's showmanship. Then it's okay to call it that.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I say it is the tablespoon of sugar that goes
into the cake.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
What are the two of you learning from this project,
because you've got to be students every day you go
into it. You've got to be a student.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I mean the first thing that I
learned is I love working with Lauren. You know, you
go into a project like this and Lauren and I
had not worked together, and to kind of find a
partner in crime for lack of a better term, is
always kind of a magical experience. And in terms of
the way that we're able to challenge each other and
(15:24):
give each other pushback on you know, if we have
a concept that one of us may think is the
way that we should go and the other say, well
what about this? You know, I mean like kind of
that ability to have a back and forth is so
important when you're doing this kind of thing because it
really it opens your minds. Is the persons that are
investigating to really look into avenues that that if it's
(15:47):
one of us or the other that's doing it alone,
that we may not have come to that conclusion that hey,
this is something we can look at. But in terms
of just kind of getting down there and digging in
it's great to have somebody with you doing it for
all those reasons that I stated, and it's just you know,
for us, I mean, the search for the truth is
(16:08):
something that we take very very seriously, and we're trying
to do it very very ethically, and you know, realizing
that in cases like this that there's devastation everywhere everywhere
you look on both sides for the families of the victim,
and when you are coming at a case with the
(16:31):
prospect that they may have gotten it wrong, you have
to be, as the person who is investigating it, hyper
sensitive to the fact that that is the last thing
in the world that the victims' families want to hear,
and you have to try to act accordingly in all ways. So,
(16:51):
you know, which is something that we've been able to do,
I think very successfully with this particular case, and I
think that that's gonna show itself in late episodes.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I was gonna say, we have tremendous respect for both
families in this situation, and they have given us the
grace and the space to really investigate this, and they
have both sat down with us, and that makes a
tremendous difference as well, because they know that there is
not an agenda, but, as Bob said, a very sincere,
(17:27):
you know, attempt to get to the truth of what happened.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Wow. Where can people go to find out more about
the two of you and really know what they're listening
to when they jump onto this podcast?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Bob just pointed at me to answer, So I will
say that, you know, they can find the podcast on
iHeart app or Apple podcasts or anywhere they're listening to
their podcasts. Bob has an incredible community with his Defense
Diaries podcast US and you can find more information about
(18:03):
me on my website which is Lauren brightfchecko dot com.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Excellent. Please come back to this show anytime in the
future of the two of you. The door is always
going to be open for you.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Oh, thanks for it.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
We'll take you up on that.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
You bet be brilliant today.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Okay, you too,
Hi, Errow, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I love how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:04):
The two of you you have created something here that
is just so riveting. I mean you can't peel yourself
away from it. And the way that you really kind
of bring these episodes forward, it's like, Okay, tell me more,
tell me more, because I want to figure it out
with you is what it is.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I so appreciate that because that's exactly what we're hoping.
You know, this one's unfolding and continues to unfold in
real time, and we very much want the listener to
be a part of that process.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
So for someone like you, Bob, I mean, did you
ever think that someone in podcasting would be the one
that would help start digging once again and to help
start talking about it and creating that that message forward.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
You know when I was a criminal defense attorney for
a long long time, and what kind of drew me
to podcasting way back in the day was when I
first listened to Cereal. And you know when you kind
of sat there and listen to that particular podcast, no
matter which way you fall on ad Non saied, you
had to appreciate the deep dive into that case, and
(01:09):
it was something that I had just never heard done,
and it was so different than any other kind of
medium out there, and that you have people that were
going out there boots on the ground, that were really
reinvestigating a case from a perspective of not being the government,
so they're not law enforcement, and you know they're going
(01:30):
to ask different questions because typically what you have with
podcasters that are looking into these cases is that they're
not necessarily going in with any kind of preconceived notion
of either innocence or guilt, you know, And that's the
case very much the case with Laura and I with this.
When we first started digging in, we were like, all right, look,
(01:52):
we know what the families are saying. We know obviously
that the family of Jade, the young victim, you know,
they're very much and support of and believe that the
right person was convicted going in, and we know that
Julie's family is saying they got the wrong person, that
Julie was not capable of doing this. So we heard
(02:13):
both sides coming in and we knew both sides, and
Laura and I are both very pragmatic in terms of
kind of being able to kind of pull ourselves away
from that and understanding that there's going to be those
two positions and we're going to go in with our
eyes wide open and we're going to do our own
investigation and we're going to try to figure out if
(02:34):
they got it right. So yeah, no, I mean I
love podcasting for that. I mean, you've seen many many
crimes that where there's been convictions get overturned based on
the work done by podcasters. So yeah, I'm a huge
fan of it.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Well, it's such a new level of journalism in the
way that it's like, Okay, one day it's going to
have to get an Edward R. Morrow Award of some sort,
because you guys are doing things that other people can't
because they're trapped inside their corporate worlds and they've got
to follow that company's rules. Whereas as a podcaster today,
the two of you are out there asking real, honest
to god questions and you're bringing stories together.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
You know, I think that that's also the human element
of it. You cannot substitute face to face conversation with
just assumptions. So that has been something that was very
important to Bob and I. We had to go and
actually move within the community that Beverly lived in and
(03:40):
really hear from the people who live there their perspective,
because keep in mind that, you know, we are revisiting
this case. But she was held in Williamson County in
jail for more than two years before she set foot
in trial, and her case had already been tried in
social media and in the local media before she even
(04:03):
set foot in trial. And it was with the full
presumption of guilt, not innocent innocence. There was not the
presumption of innocence in this case.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
And see situations like that where it's like we've already
made up our mind and so and that's what's great
about your podcast is the fact that you're not going
to give me that opportunity to make up my mind
right now. You're going to give me the story so
I can walk with you. I mean, first of all,
Mary in Illinois and most people around the nature and
to go, really, this happened in Marion, Illinois. That seems
like such an innocent little place on the earth.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, it's very very much a small town. And you know,
I mean, but the one thing that you kind of
learn if you follow true crime is that it's always
stranger than real life. I mean, that's just that's a fact.
And then these things happen everywhere, you know, so it's like,
you know, but when you start digging in and when
(04:54):
you get down there and you kind of see how
the town is built in. You know, when you're talking
about a case like with Julie whose mixed race, you
have to take all those kind of socio you know,
kind of sociological things into consideration when you're trying to
figure out what might have happened here, is there were
(05:15):
there biases that are just ingrained in that area in
terms of maybe there's some racism involved, maybe there's you know,
different thoughts in terms of religion that are involved. So
all these different factors really were at play. And when
you kind of look at the jury that was ultimately
empaneled and you look at the judge who had never
(05:38):
tried a murder case, it was kind of like the
perfect storm when you really start digging into the investigation
or lack thereof that was done by law enforcement. So
you have all these factors that really make for the
requirement of a deep dive, you know, and like Laura
and I are happy to do it, and you know,
(06:01):
much like you wanting to hear kind of the next
episode of what's going on. That's very much what our
investigation has been like. You know, everything that we uncover,
we're like, man, we need to dig in more. You know,
it's just been that that type of adventure i'd call it.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
And Eric, I was going to say, keep in mind
that you know this this the Williamson County claim that
they had conducted a thorough investigation. But they arrested this
woman on the ninth of December and the murder occurred
on the fifth of December. So you know how thorough
(06:39):
of an investigation can be conducted in under a week.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
See, I was going to ask you about that. Do
we really need to go back and redefine what thorough is?
And you know there's got to be a time limit
of some sort on there and the length of it,
because you're right, it happened one, two, three, and it's like,
what you've already got them?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
How Yeah, they they announced the murder and the arrest
during the same press conference Rents and that immediately set
a fire on social media and some of the comments
are beyond the pale. You know, we we did mention
(07:15):
race and I wish that that didn't play a part
in this, but I can tell you I have no
shortage of receipts of local members of the community who
were basically calling for a lynching, and and that is
something that I think as a society we have to
face in terms of a rush to judgment and presumptions
(07:38):
based on othering an individual, and that very much is
something that that was in play.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Bobby. Couldn't have been just as easy as walking into
the town and start getting stories. You guys had to
you had you had to do something, build up a relationship,
or people were coming up to you going so what
are you guys up to? What I what do you
mean podcast?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah, No, it was very very much that I mean
obviously from the perspective of Julie Beverly's family, we had
we had some people that were lined up in terms
of people that were willing to talk to us, but
we very much in terms of ethically trying to get
this thing investigated. We wanted to talk to everybody. We
(08:20):
wanted to talk to all sides, and you knows, as
it developed as people kind of talked in this small town,
which is an advantage to doing something like this in
a small town because everybody talks, you know, so I
think it started to get out there that hey, look,
you know, these two aren't aren't out here, you know,
with some kind of agenda. They're really out here trying
(08:43):
to dig for the truth, which opened a lot of
doors to us, which you know, does that mean that
we haven't had doors shut in our face? Yes we have,
but that doesn't stop us from going and trying to
ask the questions. And it's it's one of those things
that as this thing progresses, because we're still investigating now
like this, this podcast is happening in real time, so
(09:04):
in our hope very much, and if near your listeners
out there know anything, and I don't know what market
you're in, but you know, the hope is that if
people are hearing this and they know something, that they
reach out to us, you know. I mean that's what
happens in these types of podcasts, where you'll get somebody
who may know something that's willing to come forward and talk.
(09:26):
So it's yeah, it's it's a it's an unbelievable experience.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Really wow, for the two of you to to, you know,
keep pushing forward, because it's too easy these days to
say all right, we got enough information, let's let's just
wrap things up and well we'll we'll go home. Because
you know, most people when they when they hear them
somebody doing a podcast, they think that it's done one, two,
three overnight, but it's not. And you guys have invested
so much time and energy in this, which I believe
(09:50):
is the absolute best reason why I can't peel myself
away from this.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I appreciate that, you know, and it really boils back
down to intent, and Bob and I share the same intent.
We're not in this to sensationalize a heartbreaking, in gruesome murder.
We're in it to actually figure out what actually happened,
(10:16):
who actually did it, and if that ends up being
Julia Beverly, who is now sitting in prison for fifty
five years, then that is what that is where the
path will end. But in terms of just you know,
(10:37):
trying to get it over with, that's not our intention.
Our intention is to solve this crime.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Body language is everything, Bob. I mean, when you when
you're sitting there recording with somebody, do you watch what
they're doing with their body?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Oh? Absolutely, I mean for me, it's no different than
watching a witness on the stand, right, I mean, you
you're trying to take it all in, you know, demeanor,
you know the obviously you look for kind of the tells,
you know, are they scratching the back of their head,
are they itching the side of their nose, are they
not making eye contact? All those types of things. But
(11:13):
it's really kind of their intention in the way that
they speak to you, you know, where it's going to
give you a lot of clues in terms of this
is where this person's coming from. Do I find this
person to be a credible person in terms of the
way that they're answering And you know, like Laura and said,
you can't do that other than in person. You know
(11:35):
what I'm saying. It's like even over the phone, like
and sometimes we have to have interviews with people over
the phone, but I mean always, always, the best way
to do it, if possible, is in person, face to face,
where you're just able to really kind of dig in
with them. And you know, the one thing that we're
able to do in a podcast like this is we
(11:56):
get below the surface, you know, because that's what matters
in a case like this. You really want to dig,
you want to ask those hard questions of people that
may make them feel a little bit uncomfortable, but you
know that require an answer. So like the whole experience
for us is really driven towards finding out the truth
(12:18):
of what happened here because everyone, everyone involved with it
deserves it.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
The thing is is that it's a story that's growing.
I would love to be in that editing room with
you guys, going, Okay, we're going to pull from this conversation.
Then we're going to pull from this one. But you've
got to put stuff in the middle. Because here's where
I get to be the cheater. I'm reading the transcripts
while the show is on, so therefore I'm sitting there
reading the story. But see, you guys are building the
story you live at first before it comes to me.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And I think that that actually is why we feel
such a personal attachment to doing it the right way.
You know, there is an a privilege actually to earning
someone's ear, and we are very aware that we are
(13:08):
tasked with building content that's compelling enough so that people
want to listen while keeping the integrity of the actual
investigation intact. And you know, I think that we are
always trying to find that that perfect balance. But I
(13:28):
believe in doing so, we are hopefully allowing people to
let what's going through their headphones to open their mind
to the possibility that the system didn't get it right.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
One of the things that as a broadcast instructor, that
we're trying to teach these future students is something that
you guys have mastered here, and that is sound that
I really feel like that you're taking me someplace. You're
not just sitting in a studio, You're bringing me sound.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
That's a very very very intentional approach that Bob and
I both share. But for me, I'm recovering television producer
first and foremost. So I've always tried to have my
podcast be almost like movies you can watch with your
eyes closed. And so I work with Bob and I
(14:23):
both work with a very small, very talented team. So
the soundscaping on this is the direct result of the
talents of Taylor Chicoigne and Evan Tyer, who are our editors,
and they are both incredible musicians on top of it.
So all of the music you hear is original.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
It's showmanship. Then it's okay to call it that.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I say it is the tablespoon of sugar that goes
into the cake.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
What are the two of you learning from this project,
because you've got to be students every day you go
into it. You've got to be a student.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I mean the first thing that I
learned is I love working with Lauren. You know, you
go into a project like this and Lauren and I
had not worked together, and to kind of find a
partner in crime for lack of a better term, is
always kind of a magical experience. And in terms of
the way that we're able to challenge each other and
(15:24):
give each other pushback on you know, if we have
a concept that one of us may think is the
way that we should go and the other say, well
what about this? You know, I mean like kind of
that ability to have a back and forth is so
important when you're doing this kind of thing because it
really it opens your minds. Is the persons that are
investigating to really look into avenues that that if it's
(15:47):
one of us or the other that's doing it alone,
that we may not have come to that conclusion that hey,
this is something we can look at. But in terms
of just kind of getting down there and digging in
it's great to have somebody with you doing it for
all those reasons that I stated, and it's just you know,
for us, I mean, the search for the truth is
(16:08):
something that we take very very seriously, and we're trying
to do it very very ethically, and you know, realizing
that in cases like this that there's devastation everywhere everywhere
you look on both sides for the families of the victim,
and when you are coming at a case with the
(16:31):
prospect that they may have gotten it wrong, you have
to be, as the person who is investigating it, hyper
sensitive to the fact that that is the last thing
in the world that the victims' families want to hear,
and you have to try to act accordingly in all ways. So,
(16:51):
you know, which is something that we've been able to do,
I think very successfully with this particular case, and I
think that that's gonna show itself in late episodes.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I was gonna say, we have tremendous respect for both
families in this situation, and they have given us the
grace and the space to really investigate this, and they
have both sat down with us, and that makes a
tremendous difference as well, because they know that there is
not an agenda, but, as Bob said, a very sincere,
(17:27):
you know, attempt to get to the truth of what happened.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Wow. Where can people go to find out more about
the two of you and really know what they're listening
to when they jump onto this podcast?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Bob just pointed at me to answer, So I will
say that, you know, they can find the podcast on
iHeart app or Apple podcasts or anywhere they're listening to
their podcasts. Bob has an incredible community with his Defense
Diaries podcast US and you can find more information about
(18:03):
me on my website which is Lauren brightfchecko dot com.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Excellent. Please come back to this show anytime in the
future of the two of you. The door is always
going to be open for you.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Oh, thanks for it.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
We'll take you up on that.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
You bet be brilliant today.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Okay, you too,
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