August 17, 2025 • 6 mins
In the early hours of July 29, 1976, 18-year-old medic-in-training Donna Lauria and her friend Jody Valenti, then a 19-year-old nurse, were sitting in Valenti's blue two-door Oldsmobile Cutlass in the Bronx, after a night dancing at a disco. Without warning, a man approached their vehicle, pulled a gun from a paper bag, and fired multiple shots, striking Lauria in the back and killing her instantly. Valenti was shot and wounded in her leg, but survived the attack. This brutal and seemingly random crime marked the beginning of a violent spree of attacks that would keep a terrified New York on edge for more than a year until David Berkowitz, originally known as the ".44 Caliber Killer" because of his weapon of choice, was captured by authorities in August 1977.Berkowitz later became notoriously known as the "Son of Sam" serial killer, after the pen name with which he signed letters he left at the scenes of his crimes for police or mailed to journalists. In 1978, he was convicted of the murders of two men and four women, ranging in age from 18 to 25, and sentenced to six consecutive life sentences in prison, which he is still serving.Conversations with a Killer: The Son of Sam Tapes, the fourth chapter in the Conversations with a Killer series, is available on Netflix beginning July 30th, and revisits the killings that haunted New York during an already tumultuous period of crime and underinvestment. The series delves into the mind and troubled past of Berkowitz, featuring newly unearthed audio interviews recorded with him by reporter Jack Jones in 1980 at Attica Correctional Facility in Wyoming County, New York.Alongside interviews with detectives, journalists, and survivors of Berkowitz's attacks, the three-part series offers new insights into the investigation and the enduring impact of Berkowitz's crimes on the local community. The series is directed and produced by Emmy-winning and Academy Award-nominated director Joe Berlinger (Cold Case: Jon Benet Ramsey, Crime Scene: The Texas Killing Fields, and Hitler and the Nazis: Evil on Trial)."At the heart of Conversations with a Killer lies a commitment to unraveling the complex minds of notorious criminals while providing a space for those closest to the crimes to find closure," Berlinger tells Netflix. "With The Son of Sam Tapes, we delve into the world of David Berkowitz and his chilling influence on 1970s New York City. These rare tapes reveal unnerving insights into his psyche, shedding light on the intricate details of the case and the pervasive fear that gripped the city. Through these tapes, we hope to not only revisit history, but to bring clarity and depth to a narrative that has long intrigued and unsettled the public."WATCH THE TRAILER:Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLENEDZK3h4
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, Joe. How are you doing today. I'm doing great.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I understand you're from Charlotte. I was just in Charlotte
for two weeks. We could have gotten together for coffee.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Oh and really dug into this. What were we doing?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Well? I'm doing another show for Netflix, but I can't
tell you what it's about, but Charlotte plays a big
role in it.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Wow. Wow, Hey, I got to tell you something. You're
shaking me up with this new documentary on Netflix, Conversations
with a Killer, because right away, I don't know why
it is. The Son of Sam has always reminded me
of Brian Coburger, and it's because, I mean, I don't
know if it's the stare. I don't know what it is,
because I guess the mystery is is that could Brian
(00:39):
have gone on to do several of these if he
wouldn't have been caught.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
That's a great point, and I think he could have,
you know. And the thing about a lot of these people,
particularly Burkwitz and Coburger, is like present as so normal
in real life. That's what's scary about it. You know,
we want to think that serial killers, and I think
Coburger would have gone on to become a serial killer.
(01:05):
We want to think that serial killers like look and
act evil all the time, and that like, you know,
when they're walking down the street, they look at they
you know, they're they're dripping with blood and you want
it and the street to avoid the fate of becoming
a victim. But the reality is most people who do evil,
and particularly Berkowitz, you know, just look like the normal
(01:26):
guy next door. And that's what's so frightening about it
and why I like to do these shows as a
cautionary tale that you know, the people who do evil
in this world are the people you least expect and
most often trust, and that people really need to earn
your trust before you just trust somebody. Just because somebody is,
you know, seems nice and trustworthy, you shouldn't trust them.
(01:49):
In fact, there's a fascinating anecdote in the show because
Berkowitz worked for the post Office and he's sitting around
the post office with colleagues and they're all speculator about
who the son of Sam could be and what his
motivations are, and they're all having wild theories about what
kind of person. And David turns to them and says,
you know, he's probably just a regular guy like you
(02:11):
or me, and that's that's that And Coburger fits that
bill too.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Please do not move. There's more with Joe Berlinger coming
up next from Netflix. We've got Conversations with a Killer.
Joe Berlinger talks about it. But the thing is about
with your with Conversations with a Killer is that how
did you learn to even trust what was being shared?
Because he liked to play games. He you know that,
you know, I'm I'm demonized, only to realize he was
(02:38):
just trying to create confusion by using that term.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, I mean, I've I've listened to other tapes of
Berkowitz and one of the reasons I've decided to do
this show is that this particular set of tapes, which
were done by a journalist by the name of Jack
Jones at the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle at the time.
You know, Rochester, New York is upstate New York and
(03:01):
it's fifty miles from Attica Prison where Berkerwitz was incarcerated.
And Berkerwitz reached out to Jack Jones wanting to tell
his side of the story, and Jack did a masterful
job of interviewing him in such a way that I
found him to be very truthful and compelling, and sure
enough in these tapes as far back as nineteen eighty,
(03:22):
he was disavowing the idea that he was, you know,
being being spoken to. You know, the story of So Sam,
for the listeners who don't know, is that, you know,
Burkewitz claimed that a six thousand year old demon was
talking to him, instructing him to kill through his neighbor's dog.
(03:43):
His neighbor's name was Sam Carr, and so that hence
the son of Sam, and this dog was commanding him
to do these killings. In these tapes, he admits that
that was a ruse, just to make people think he
was crazy. He admits that the week before he was arrested,
(04:04):
you know, he staged his apartment to make it look
like a crazy guy lived there, and you know, did
scrawlings all over the wall, punch holes in the wall,
cut out pictures victims. So I found these tapes to
be very very credible, and nothing we put in the
show is in something we you know, we always corroborate
through other means. So he was, you know, in this instance,
(04:27):
he was quite It was quite compelling and truthful. But
you know, these guys are often unreliable narrators of their
own story.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, you know, they always tell us so don't you know,
you can't forget history. And this is one of those
moments because when you sit here and you realize this
happened forty seven years ago, and you bring it up
and it feels like it just happened last week.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah. One. You know, one of the reasons I wanted
to do the show is I view this case as
one of the most important cases in the history of
true crime, because, as I think people know or we've
never had, true crime has never been more popular. I mean,
people just can't seem to get enough of it. And
I trace that fascination back to this case. Because Berkowitz
(05:07):
had the entire city of New York ripped in fear,
manipulated and played with the press in ways that were new.
The press was only too willing to comply. And you
know the famous Jimmy Breslin, who was a you know,
staple in New York of one of the major papers.
(05:29):
You know, they wrote letters to each other. Breslin kind
of egged him on on the anniversary of the first
death of death, you know, give yourself up, which some
people interpreted as he was egging him on to like
do another killing. You know, I think the codependency between
people who love crime and the media only too willing
(05:51):
to serve it up, which I include myself by the way.
I mean, I'm it was kind of a self reflexive
exploration here, you know, I think this this era of
of of crime as big news really you know, started
with with this case.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Well, please come back to this show anytime in the future.
The door is always going to be open for you.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Appreciate it, man, Thank you, Thank you.
Good morning, Joe. How are you doing today. I'm doing great.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I understand you're from Charlotte. I was just in Charlotte
for two weeks. We could have gotten together for coffee.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Oh and really dug into this. What were we doing?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Well? I'm doing another show for Netflix, but I can't
tell you what it's about, but Charlotte plays a big
role in it.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Wow. Wow, Hey, I got to tell you something. You're
shaking me up with this new documentary on Netflix, Conversations
with a Killer, because right away, I don't know why
it is. The Son of Sam has always reminded me
of Brian Coburger, and it's because, I mean, I don't
know if it's the stare. I don't know what it is,
because I guess the mystery is is that could Brian
(00:39):
have gone on to do several of these if he
wouldn't have been caught.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
That's a great point, and I think he could have,
you know. And the thing about a lot of these people,
particularly Burkwitz and Coburger, is like present as so normal
in real life. That's what's scary about it. You know,
we want to think that serial killers, and I think
Coburger would have gone on to become a serial killer.
(01:05):
We want to think that serial killers like look and
act evil all the time, and that like, you know,
when they're walking down the street, they look at they
you know, they're they're dripping with blood and you want
it and the street to avoid the fate of becoming
a victim. But the reality is most people who do evil,
and particularly Berkowitz, you know, just look like the normal
(01:26):
guy next door. And that's what's so frightening about it
and why I like to do these shows as a
cautionary tale that you know, the people who do evil
in this world are the people you least expect and
most often trust, and that people really need to earn
your trust before you just trust somebody. Just because somebody is,
you know, seems nice and trustworthy, you shouldn't trust them.
(01:49):
In fact, there's a fascinating anecdote in the show because
Berkowitz worked for the post Office and he's sitting around
the post office with colleagues and they're all speculator about
who the son of Sam could be and what his
motivations are, and they're all having wild theories about what
kind of person. And David turns to them and says,
you know, he's probably just a regular guy like you
(02:11):
or me, and that's that's that And Coburger fits that
bill too.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Please do not move. There's more with Joe Berlinger coming
up next from Netflix. We've got Conversations with a Killer.
Joe Berlinger talks about it. But the thing is about
with your with Conversations with a Killer is that how
did you learn to even trust what was being shared?
Because he liked to play games. He you know that,
you know, I'm I'm demonized, only to realize he was
(02:38):
just trying to create confusion by using that term.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, I mean, I've I've listened to other tapes of
Berkowitz and one of the reasons I've decided to do
this show is that this particular set of tapes, which
were done by a journalist by the name of Jack
Jones at the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle at the time.
You know, Rochester, New York is upstate New York and
(03:01):
it's fifty miles from Attica Prison where Berkerwitz was incarcerated.
And Berkerwitz reached out to Jack Jones wanting to tell
his side of the story, and Jack did a masterful
job of interviewing him in such a way that I
found him to be very truthful and compelling, and sure
enough in these tapes as far back as nineteen eighty,
(03:22):
he was disavowing the idea that he was, you know,
being being spoken to. You know, the story of So Sam,
for the listeners who don't know, is that, you know,
Burkewitz claimed that a six thousand year old demon was
talking to him, instructing him to kill through his neighbor's dog.
(03:43):
His neighbor's name was Sam Carr, and so that hence
the son of Sam, and this dog was commanding him
to do these killings. In these tapes, he admits that
that was a ruse, just to make people think he
was crazy. He admits that the week before he was arrested,
(04:04):
you know, he staged his apartment to make it look
like a crazy guy lived there, and you know, did
scrawlings all over the wall, punch holes in the wall,
cut out pictures victims. So I found these tapes to
be very very credible, and nothing we put in the
show is in something we you know, we always corroborate
through other means. So he was, you know, in this instance,
(04:27):
he was quite It was quite compelling and truthful. But
you know, these guys are often unreliable narrators of their
own story.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, you know, they always tell us so don't you know,
you can't forget history. And this is one of those
moments because when you sit here and you realize this
happened forty seven years ago, and you bring it up
and it feels like it just happened last week.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah. One. You know, one of the reasons I wanted
to do the show is I view this case as
one of the most important cases in the history of
true crime, because, as I think people know or we've
never had, true crime has never been more popular. I mean,
people just can't seem to get enough of it. And
I trace that fascination back to this case. Because Berkowitz
(05:07):
had the entire city of New York ripped in fear,
manipulated and played with the press in ways that were new.
The press was only too willing to comply. And you
know the famous Jimmy Breslin, who was a you know,
staple in New York of one of the major papers.
(05:29):
You know, they wrote letters to each other. Breslin kind
of egged him on on the anniversary of the first
death of death, you know, give yourself up, which some
people interpreted as he was egging him on to like
do another killing. You know, I think the codependency between
people who love crime and the media only too willing
(05:51):
to serve it up, which I include myself by the way.
I mean, I'm it was kind of a self reflexive
exploration here, you know, I think this this era of
of of crime as big news really you know, started
with with this case.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Well, please come back to this show anytime in the future.
The door is always going to be open for you.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Appreciate it, man, Thank you, Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!