April 24, 2025 • 18 mins
The follow-up to Kristin Casey's widely acclaimed memoir Rock Monster: My Life with Joe WalshCasey Dancer is the true story of a thirty-nine-year-old part-time stripper, full-time real estate agent, and struggling writer navigating the chaos of love and ambition. Fresh from a tumultuous breakup and newly sober, Kristin finds herself struggling to re-enter the dating scene. When she falls for Lalo, a charming but troubled ex-coke dealer, their steamy affair leads to deep emotional conflict, testing her boundaries and stirring memories of past relationships. Through the highs of passion, the lows of financial strain, and the harsh realities of erotic labor, Kristin fights to reclaim her sense of self. Bold, raw, and unapologetically honest, Casey Dancer is a story of resilience, vulnerability, and self-discovery.
"In Casey Dancer, Kristin Casey invites readers into an unfiltered exploration of her journey through the complexities of sex, dating, and intimacy, transcending the superficial allure of romantic entanglements to uncover the raw truths that lie beneath. This candid memoir serves as a fearless examination of the often-unspoken realities of modern relationships, revealing not only the euphoric highs of passionate encounters but also the deep vulnerabilities that arise when one dares to be truly seen by another. With an honesty that is both refreshing and disarming, Kristin confronts her own choices and experiences with genuine curiosity, challenging societal norms and expectations along the way. Throughout the memoir, she thoughtfully references her first book, Rock Monster, which chronicled her whirlwind relationship with rock legend Joe Walsh. These poignant callbacks serve as effective reminders of where she's been and how those experiences have shaped her understanding of love and self. Through her journeys, both physical and emotional, Kristin pushes boundaries in ways that are not only refreshing but also deeply relatable. She invites readers to join her on a path of self-acceptance, exploring the intersections of sexuality, identity, and the relentless passage of time. Casey Dancer dares to ask the difficult questions, embracing the messy, beautiful, and sometimes painful realities of being human. It is a celebration of resilience, a testament to the strength found in vulnerability, and an invitation for readers to embark on their own journeys of self-discovery."
-Chris Epting, memoirist and author of forty-five books including Where One Hears the Rain
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.
"In Casey Dancer, Kristin Casey invites readers into an unfiltered exploration of her journey through the complexities of sex, dating, and intimacy, transcending the superficial allure of romantic entanglements to uncover the raw truths that lie beneath. This candid memoir serves as a fearless examination of the often-unspoken realities of modern relationships, revealing not only the euphoric highs of passionate encounters but also the deep vulnerabilities that arise when one dares to be truly seen by another. With an honesty that is both refreshing and disarming, Kristin confronts her own choices and experiences with genuine curiosity, challenging societal norms and expectations along the way. Throughout the memoir, she thoughtfully references her first book, Rock Monster, which chronicled her whirlwind relationship with rock legend Joe Walsh. These poignant callbacks serve as effective reminders of where she's been and how those experiences have shaped her understanding of love and self. Through her journeys, both physical and emotional, Kristin pushes boundaries in ways that are not only refreshing but also deeply relatable. She invites readers to join her on a path of self-acceptance, exploring the intersections of sexuality, identity, and the relentless passage of time. Casey Dancer dares to ask the difficult questions, embracing the messy, beautiful, and sometimes painful realities of being human. It is a celebration of resilience, a testament to the strength found in vulnerability, and an invitation for readers to embark on their own journeys of self-discovery."
-Chris Epting, memoirist and author of forty-five books including Where One Hears the Rain
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, Kristen, Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hi Ero, good to talk to you again.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
My goodness sakes, I have enjoyed just watching everything that
you post on social media. You are so connected and
always upbeat.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Well, thank you. That is so sweet of you to say.
I wish I could tell you I'm like that in
real life, but I have my moments. But no, excuse me.
I got to tell your life's been really good lately,
and I got nothing.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
To be down about putting this book together. You're pulling
from those those channels and you're bringing thoughts to us
out here in storybook form. I mean, what was that
like for you to make that decision to write it?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well, you know, the funny thing is, I'm kind of
a private person. I think out and about in the world.
But when I'm writing my books their memoirs, usually I'm
writing about a period that was, you know, at least
twenty years previous, and so it's almost like I'm writing
about somebody else. I mean, because I've changed so much
over the years, and it just seems very easy to me.
(01:00):
I don't know why, but partly because I'm passionate about
the subject of intimacy and sexuality and recovery and identity,
and so I want to. I feel like I have
a mission to sort of share whatever little bit of
wisdom I have attained in my life with the world.
But also, when I'm writing about somebody from twenty years ago,
(01:22):
it is almost like I'm writing about, if not somebody different,
a former version of myself. And so it's a lot
easier to kind of put all the you know, warts
and all out there, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
It's easier to talk about myself and my floyables when
I'm doing it in a past tense sort of way.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I think, And isn't it kind of odd that the
older we get, the more we realize that we are
nothing but a bunch of chapters that become books.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
It's true, it really is. I mean it's to me,
it's kind of comforting to look back at your life
and think, oh, I grew and learned, and there was
there was a character arc in that, you know, period
of my life. I mean, hopefully we look back and
we say, okay, I'm a different person. Now. There was
a character arc. There was a there was some drama
and a challenge and a denownment and and a psychic change.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Claris Leachman, she she blew me away when she said that.
She says, yeah, I've had a lot of husbands. They're
just they're just chapters. You just keep moving on. How
is it that you're able to keep stepping forward because
you you could call we both know people that say
I quit, I can't do it anymore. I'm just going
to be a bump on a log.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Oh well, you know, if you read my first book
and you see kind of the darkness that I came from.
For me, moving forward just means life gets brighter and brighter,
right Like I got it to a point in my
life at some point, maybe ten years into sobriety, where
I just really felt like, you know, I can make
up my life what I want to, like, I have
(02:49):
some power in the world to affect change in my life.
And that was exciting to me. And then, of course
you get challenges, you get you get what feels like
psychics wiped or or gut punched a lot. But you know,
I was suicidal in my late twenties, you know, right
before I got sober, and once I got sober and
realized that's not that's not the way I'm meant to go.
(03:10):
I don't have that out. I'm never going to have
that out. I got one choice, and that's to make
the most of my life. You find your purpose and
you just keep plugging away. And I am not about
to live a life that is not as good as
I can possibly make it, you know, because I wasted
so much in my life too. I mean, I just
wasted so much of it being full of self pity
(03:30):
and being in that darkness and not understanding that I
had the power to change my life. And now that
I do it, to me, that's nothing but exciting.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, are you a daily writer? Do you journalize? Because
I mean, I've been writing in journals for thirty one
years and the reason behind that is so that I
can say, yeah, I was here, let me prove to
you that I was really here.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That's a good way to put it. That's a great
way to put it. I do journal I don't do
it every day. I probably journal once or twice a
week whenever something impactful happens. God, because that's what I use.
I lean heavily on my journals when I'm writing my
memoirs because my memory is not as good as I
wish it could be right. But what I write down
very When I do journal, it's very detailed, and so
(04:12):
because of that, I'm able to draw and write very
detailed memoir. The second book, especially, I wrote extremely. I
wrote a lot in my journals, maybe every other day sometimes,
so I had a lot to draw from.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Don't you love it?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Though?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Win you journaling and all of a sudden the thought
comes to you and you're sitting there going, WHOA, that
came from out of nowhere? And I wrote it? How
the hell did I get lucky enough to get that one?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah? I know, but that's how it works. As a writer.
I've learned that when you just let it flow, like
what you do, you do what we call free writing sometimes,
which is just put pen to paper and just let it,
let it flow. It's amazing what comes out. And sometimes
I think, did that come out of mirror? Did I
tap into some sort of universal creative consciousness? And the
truth is we're all tapped into that universal creative consciousness,
(04:53):
or we all can be tapped into it if we
choose to be, if we if we allow ourselves to be.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I always get upset because I feel like that putting
less ink in the pans. No, I'm writing a lot more.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
That's a good sign you must be doing.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Gaining access to test the strengths of your boundaries. I
mean to get that. That takes confidence, that takes courage, determination,
you've got that inside yourself.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Well, thank you for saying that. I mean, I definitely
tested the boundaries and all the wrong ways. I think
in my twenties. I like to think I'm testing them
in the right ways in my thirties, forties and fifties.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
See. I love being where I am at sixty almost
sixty three, because it's like you look back at what
you've done, the screw ups, the trips, the stumbles, and
you go, okay, so I got a little cut here
on my knee. I'm okay, let's keep going forward. I
want to see what seventy feels like.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, yeah, One thing I noticed, you know, from the
time I was eighteen years old, I've worked with men
of all ages. Right as a stripper, I was meeting
men who were from twenty one to eighty one in
the strip club, and I found them fascinating. And then
you know, I did my fair share of escorting, and
what I when you really start crawling around inside men's
heads and men of all ages. What you learn is
(06:08):
that once a man gets into his fifties, he starts
to really appreciate what women bring to his life and
his family brings to his life. And then in his
sixties especially, a man really starts to feel like, how
can I find more joy in my life by bringing
something to the world. And you just get to a
place where all that past stuff, you know, all the
(06:28):
wounds and hurts and failure for lack of a better term,
it just becomes wisdom and you just want to use
it to help others. Right, It's a great place to be.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well in Casey Dancer, I mean, I mean you're writing
about the thirty nine year old self. I mean, I mean,
what is that like to go back to that area
of your lifetime where you were a part time stripper
and things. I mean, at thirty nine years old, I mean,
that's where things are really beginning to change mentally.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, you know, I tell you you talk to most women,
and maybe it's the same for men, but around thirty
nine or forty, you really start to care less what
other people think about you, and you really start to
trust your own instincts more. And so when I went
back to stripping at thirty nine, it was because I realized, finally,
I'm just so unhappy as a realtor. Like real estate
taught me the seven years I had been doing it
(07:16):
by then, it taught me a lot about being dependable
and accountable and good negotiating skills. And I really needed
those lessons in life because I've been such a drunk
and an addict in my twenty when you should be
learning those lessons. So it was very healthy for me
to be a realtor through my thirties, but it wasn't
authentically who I was as a person. I, for right
(07:38):
or wrong, for whatever weird reason, I thrived in the
arena of sex work. I thrived in a strip club.
Anything that has to do with intimacy and connection and
sexuality in a healthy way, That's where I thrived. That's
what I was passionate about. So the day I went
back to stripping at thirty nine, because I had a
(07:58):
six month drive spells and I just needed the money,
and I thought, I can't believe I'm going back at
this stage. But the day I walked into the club
and I got to just prance around and lingerie and
talk to men and have fun and listen to music
and dance on stage and get paid for my work
because you know, I hadn't been making any money as
a realtor, and as a stripper, you get cash in
hand for the minute you start working. And I just remembered,
(08:21):
I feel like I'm home again. And so I did
it for the next four years, and it was a
fantastic experience until it wasn't right because it's things change.
You know. I made really good money as a stripper
for most of my career, but then when the recession hit,
everything changed. We had an influx of girls who didn't
know how to negotiate. They started turning tricks in the
(08:42):
VIP room, the customers started asking for a lot more
than they were paying for, and the whole thing just
turned into really kind of a degrading, dirty experience, and
I ended up getting out at forty two. But you know,
it's it's that thing about I think it was Marilyn Monroe. No,
it was May West who said, it's not what you do,
(09:03):
it's how you do it. So stripping can be a
great experience if you you know, if the timing is right,
and if your attitude is right, and then when things change,
well then you have to change with it. And that's
what book talks about.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
That when you go into the clubs, aren't you, in
essence your own boss. You are the president and CEO
of ME Incorporated. The building happens to be there, but
you still have to be in charge of your own success.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Oh absolutely. Like when I first started stripping it in
nineteen eighty six at eighteen years old, they had bouncers everywhere.
They had very strict rules. There was no touching, and
if you broke the rules or a customer broke the rules,
you know, somebody stepped in and reprimanded you and maybe
if they had to, they fired you. I mean, it
was a very strict environment and it was a lot
of fun because of that, to be honest, But that
(09:49):
out changed pretty quickly by the nineties. You know, the bouncers,
they they were there to throw out anyone who got
really drunk, but nobody was policing the dancers anymore. So
we were policing ourselves, which you know, as you can imagine,
was not always working out very well. So you have
to have healthy boundaries as a stripper. Or a sex
(10:11):
worker of any kind, because you are your own boss.
You're the ones setting the rules, and your customers and
clients are going to get away with exactly as much
as you let them. I mean not everyone. Some would
be very respectful, just naturally. But when you're dealing with
a lot of men, the majority of them, God love them.
And that is a man's nature too, to push the envelope.
That's why we have rocket ships and skyscrapers is because
(10:32):
it's in a man's nature to push the envelope. But
they're like that with women too, in intimate situations. And
so women definitely have to be the gatekeepers and we
have to be responsible and we have to set boundaries
and a lot of casey down. So my book is
about setting boundaries, learning how to set boundaries in your
life and with men and in strip clubs and in
every area.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
See I'm glad you said that, because I was going
to say, you know, this book is a teaching book.
You're teaching people how to adjust in their own personal lives.
This isn't just a story, but this is actually something
that people can learn from.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Thank you so much for saying that. That was absolutely
my intention when I wrote the book. I wanted it
to be a guide book for women in whether they're
in the sex industry or just in a relationship or
try or just dating. A guidebook for what are the
life skills that I'm going to need to keep me
safe in every area of my life. And that means
(11:24):
work and relationships and everywhere else. And that's learning how
to be vulnerable in a healthy way, learning to be
authentic about stating your wants and needs, and learning how
to set healthy boundaries that allow for you know, the
most beneficial rewarding relationships.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
The name of the book is Casey Dancer from Kristin Casey.
We'll be right back. Hey, thanks for coming back to
my conversation with author Kristin Casey. I got to tell
you I love the book cover. It says, don't even
assume that you think you know me, not until you
get to the final page of this book.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, I guess it does say that. I really I
love that pose. I did it. I just happened to
do a photoshoot earlier that year, and when my publisher
saw the pictures, he chose that one post for the
book cover. I thought, oh, that really is an appropriate picture.
It just kind of happened. It was a good happenstance.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
But see, I love things like that in the everyday world,
that things happen. You don't know why it's happening. You
don't know why you're at a photo shoot today, but hey,
you know several months later it's going to become something exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, it was a complete coincidence, if there is such
a thing as coincidences. Right.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Wow, So what did you learn by putting this book together?
Because I'm an author, I get it when we dive
in there and we you know, we tumble through those words.
I mean, we still pick something up and we adjust
our lives.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You know. It's funny. I do always learn something when
I'm writing. I think I know what the themes are,
I think I know what the storyline is, and then
and then it sort of blossoms and takes on a
life of its own. I didn't set out to write
this book about vulnerability, authenticity, and boundary settings. I wrote
the book, and then as I was going through it
for the first pass of edits, I realized it had
(13:05):
fallen into those three sections. And I realized more than
anything that one of the first things I learned in
sobriety was that I was not able to be vulnerable
at all. I had such big walls, and to this
day they're not nearly as big. But like most women,
I have trust issues around men. They started in childhood.
(13:26):
I have trust issues around women, and I like to
think they're all down. And I learned as I was
writing this book that my walls were bigger than I
ever imagined back then, and they're still. As I was
writing the book, I thought I had just started a
new relationship and I recognized some of my old patterns
(13:48):
coming up. And it was shocking to me because I
was writing about those old patterns as they were coming
up in small ways, and it really helped me to
see that, oh, I'm not being trusting. I'm pushing this
guy way a little bit when I shouldn't be, and
I'm doing it out of figure, not because of anything
he's doing. So it's really interesting to have this relationship
starting parallel to me writing a book about having healthy relationships,
(14:11):
and it ended up just being really eye opening and
helping my relationship, I think, to blossom quicker than it
would have.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
See. That's every bit the reason why I keep a
defragged journal defragging meaning I ask the questions that I
question the answers, and that's where I'm able to identify
the triggers. And if I see a trigger, it's like,
oh no, no, no, no, no, we know the outcome
of this.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah. We all have our triggers, don't we. They're set
in childhood usually, and they tend to be the same
ones throughout life. And you're I think your best hope
is that you can make them less touchy. You know,
they may always be there, but if you can recognize them,
if you can see them as they're being, as you're
being triggered, then you can. You can. You can subvert them,
you can sidestep them, you can manage them, you can
(14:54):
override them.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Let me ask you a personal question between the two
of us, we're both creative people. When I look at
that of names that you've dedicated the book to, did
you cry? Because I would have putting every one of
those names on there thinking did I forget somebody? Did
I leave somebody out?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Oh? I went over that list over and over and
over again. Thank you for asking, and I will say
it did it was emotional for me. A lot of
those artists are friends of mine, not all of them,
but some of them are dear friends of mine, and
a couple of them have passed away, and one of
them fairly recently, George Reef passed away fairly recently from
a brain tumor. Charles Rezer, who I had a wonderful
(15:31):
relationship with that I write about and then the book
He's an Incredible was an incredible guitar player both George
Reef was an incredible bass player. Both of them really
beloved in this town in Austin, not just for their
musical abilities, they were just wonderful, incredible men. And I
was very, very close to Charles, and so it was
very very sad to write about him in general. I
(15:52):
did cry when I wrote the passages about Charles.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, the name Chris Epting comes up. I've been with
Chris so many times. Did he help you with this book?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
This has been an incredible mentor and guide and touchstone.
He is so talented, and you know, he reached out
to me when my first book came out, and I
think we just uh talked about writing and we did
a short interview and then we eventually became friends. And
he's been invaluable. He's given me more great advice than
almost anyone He and Mark Elliott have to say. I
(16:21):
want to give props to Mark Elliott. He's the writer
in New York. He's got one of the best longest
careers of any writer I know. And those two men
have probably helped me more than anyone else as far
as writing mentors well.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Chris's legacy is the fact that he wants people to
tell their own story. He doesn't want them to disappear
from this planet without leaving something behind for the family.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
He really does. He has helped so many people do that.
It's amazing and he's the karma, the great karma that
that guy's got just from helping people put voice to
their stories. Because he's right, everybody does have a story.
I don't care if you're if you're a farmer, you
know raising cows. Everybody as an art to their life,
(17:01):
and if you can learn to tell your story in
an interesting way, people are fascinated by other people. I'll
read a memoir about about a midwife. I have no
interest in children or giving birth, but if you're but
I did. I read a memoir about a midwife, and
I just I couldn't put it down right. I read
a memoir about about a Mormon teenager. I have nothing
in common with this person, but I was fascinated by
(17:23):
her story. You know, it's all about how well you
can tell it, and that's what Chris does. He teaches
people how to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Wow, Christian. Where can people go to find out more
about you? Because they've got to get their hands on
your first book and everything else that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Oh, thank you so much. Everything can be found on
my website Kristincasey dot com and that's k R I
S T I n c A s e y dot com.
And you'll find all my social media links there and
links to my to purchase my book and everything you need.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Man, you got to come back to this show anytime
in the future. You know that door is always going
to be open for you.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I'd love to arrow. I love talking to you. It's
always the most interesting conversation.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Will you be brilliant today? Okay, thanks you too,
Good morning, Kristen, Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hi Ero, good to talk to you again.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
My goodness sakes, I have enjoyed just watching everything that
you post on social media. You are so connected and
always upbeat.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Well, thank you. That is so sweet of you to say.
I wish I could tell you I'm like that in
real life, but I have my moments. But no, excuse me.
I got to tell your life's been really good lately,
and I got nothing.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
To be down about putting this book together. You're pulling
from those those channels and you're bringing thoughts to us
out here in storybook form. I mean, what was that
like for you to make that decision to write it?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well, you know, the funny thing is, I'm kind of
a private person. I think out and about in the world.
But when I'm writing my books their memoirs, usually I'm
writing about a period that was, you know, at least
twenty years previous, and so it's almost like I'm writing
about somebody else. I mean, because I've changed so much
over the years, and it just seems very easy to me.
(01:00):
I don't know why, but partly because I'm passionate about
the subject of intimacy and sexuality and recovery and identity,
and so I want to. I feel like I have
a mission to sort of share whatever little bit of
wisdom I have attained in my life with the world.
But also, when I'm writing about somebody from twenty years ago,
(01:22):
it is almost like I'm writing about, if not somebody different,
a former version of myself. And so it's a lot
easier to kind of put all the you know, warts
and all out there, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
It's easier to talk about myself and my floyables when
I'm doing it in a past tense sort of way.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I think, And isn't it kind of odd that the
older we get, the more we realize that we are
nothing but a bunch of chapters that become books.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
It's true, it really is. I mean it's to me,
it's kind of comforting to look back at your life
and think, oh, I grew and learned, and there was
there was a character arc in that, you know, period
of my life. I mean, hopefully we look back and
we say, okay, I'm a different person. Now. There was
a character arc. There was a there was some drama
and a challenge and a denownment and and a psychic change.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Claris Leachman, she she blew me away when she said that.
She says, yeah, I've had a lot of husbands. They're
just they're just chapters. You just keep moving on. How
is it that you're able to keep stepping forward because
you you could call we both know people that say
I quit, I can't do it anymore. I'm just going
to be a bump on a log.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Oh well, you know, if you read my first book
and you see kind of the darkness that I came from.
For me, moving forward just means life gets brighter and brighter,
right Like I got it to a point in my
life at some point, maybe ten years into sobriety, where
I just really felt like, you know, I can make
up my life what I want to, like, I have
(02:49):
some power in the world to affect change in my life.
And that was exciting to me. And then, of course
you get challenges, you get you get what feels like
psychics wiped or or gut punched a lot. But you know,
I was suicidal in my late twenties, you know, right
before I got sober, and once I got sober and
realized that's not that's not the way I'm meant to go.
(03:10):
I don't have that out. I'm never going to have
that out. I got one choice, and that's to make
the most of my life. You find your purpose and
you just keep plugging away. And I am not about
to live a life that is not as good as
I can possibly make it, you know, because I wasted
so much in my life too. I mean, I just
wasted so much of it being full of self pity
(03:30):
and being in that darkness and not understanding that I
had the power to change my life. And now that
I do it, to me, that's nothing but exciting.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, are you a daily writer? Do you journalize? Because
I mean, I've been writing in journals for thirty one
years and the reason behind that is so that I
can say, yeah, I was here, let me prove to
you that I was really here.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That's a good way to put it. That's a great
way to put it. I do journal I don't do
it every day. I probably journal once or twice a
week whenever something impactful happens. God, because that's what I use.
I lean heavily on my journals when I'm writing my
memoirs because my memory is not as good as I
wish it could be right. But what I write down
very When I do journal, it's very detailed, and so
(04:12):
because of that, I'm able to draw and write very
detailed memoir. The second book, especially, I wrote extremely. I
wrote a lot in my journals, maybe every other day sometimes,
so I had a lot to draw from.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Don't you love it?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Though?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Win you journaling and all of a sudden the thought
comes to you and you're sitting there going, WHOA, that
came from out of nowhere? And I wrote it? How
the hell did I get lucky enough to get that one?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah? I know, but that's how it works. As a writer.
I've learned that when you just let it flow, like
what you do, you do what we call free writing sometimes,
which is just put pen to paper and just let it,
let it flow. It's amazing what comes out. And sometimes
I think, did that come out of mirror? Did I
tap into some sort of universal creative consciousness? And the
truth is we're all tapped into that universal creative consciousness,
(04:53):
or we all can be tapped into it if we
choose to be, if we if we allow ourselves to be.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I always get upset because I feel like that putting
less ink in the pans. No, I'm writing a lot more.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
That's a good sign you must be doing.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Gaining access to test the strengths of your boundaries. I
mean to get that. That takes confidence, that takes courage, determination,
you've got that inside yourself.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Well, thank you for saying that. I mean, I definitely
tested the boundaries and all the wrong ways. I think
in my twenties. I like to think I'm testing them
in the right ways in my thirties, forties and fifties.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
See. I love being where I am at sixty almost
sixty three, because it's like you look back at what
you've done, the screw ups, the trips, the stumbles, and
you go, okay, so I got a little cut here
on my knee. I'm okay, let's keep going forward. I
want to see what seventy feels like.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, yeah, One thing I noticed, you know, from the
time I was eighteen years old, I've worked with men
of all ages. Right as a stripper, I was meeting
men who were from twenty one to eighty one in
the strip club, and I found them fascinating. And then
you know, I did my fair share of escorting, and
what I when you really start crawling around inside men's
heads and men of all ages. What you learn is
(06:08):
that once a man gets into his fifties, he starts
to really appreciate what women bring to his life and
his family brings to his life. And then in his
sixties especially, a man really starts to feel like, how
can I find more joy in my life by bringing
something to the world. And you just get to a
place where all that past stuff, you know, all the
(06:28):
wounds and hurts and failure for lack of a better term,
it just becomes wisdom and you just want to use
it to help others. Right, It's a great place to be.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well in Casey Dancer, I mean, I mean you're writing
about the thirty nine year old self. I mean, I mean,
what is that like to go back to that area
of your lifetime where you were a part time stripper
and things. I mean, at thirty nine years old, I mean,
that's where things are really beginning to change mentally.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, you know, I tell you you talk to most women,
and maybe it's the same for men, but around thirty
nine or forty, you really start to care less what
other people think about you, and you really start to
trust your own instincts more. And so when I went
back to stripping at thirty nine, it was because I realized, finally,
I'm just so unhappy as a realtor. Like real estate
taught me the seven years I had been doing it
(07:16):
by then, it taught me a lot about being dependable
and accountable and good negotiating skills. And I really needed
those lessons in life because I've been such a drunk
and an addict in my twenty when you should be
learning those lessons. So it was very healthy for me
to be a realtor through my thirties, but it wasn't
authentically who I was as a person. I, for right
(07:38):
or wrong, for whatever weird reason, I thrived in the
arena of sex work. I thrived in a strip club.
Anything that has to do with intimacy and connection and
sexuality in a healthy way, That's where I thrived. That's
what I was passionate about. So the day I went
back to stripping at thirty nine, because I had a
(07:58):
six month drive spells and I just needed the money,
and I thought, I can't believe I'm going back at
this stage. But the day I walked into the club
and I got to just prance around and lingerie and
talk to men and have fun and listen to music
and dance on stage and get paid for my work
because you know, I hadn't been making any money as
a realtor, and as a stripper, you get cash in
hand for the minute you start working. And I just remembered,
(08:21):
I feel like I'm home again. And so I did
it for the next four years, and it was a
fantastic experience until it wasn't right because it's things change.
You know. I made really good money as a stripper
for most of my career, but then when the recession hit,
everything changed. We had an influx of girls who didn't
know how to negotiate. They started turning tricks in the
(08:42):
VIP room, the customers started asking for a lot more
than they were paying for, and the whole thing just
turned into really kind of a degrading, dirty experience, and
I ended up getting out at forty two. But you know,
it's it's that thing about I think it was Marilyn Monroe. No,
it was May West who said, it's not what you do,
(09:03):
it's how you do it. So stripping can be a
great experience if you you know, if the timing is right,
and if your attitude is right, and then when things change,
well then you have to change with it. And that's
what book talks about.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
That when you go into the clubs, aren't you, in
essence your own boss. You are the president and CEO
of ME Incorporated. The building happens to be there, but
you still have to be in charge of your own success.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Oh absolutely. Like when I first started stripping it in
nineteen eighty six at eighteen years old, they had bouncers everywhere.
They had very strict rules. There was no touching, and
if you broke the rules or a customer broke the rules,
you know, somebody stepped in and reprimanded you and maybe
if they had to, they fired you. I mean, it
was a very strict environment and it was a lot
of fun because of that, to be honest, But that
(09:49):
out changed pretty quickly by the nineties. You know, the bouncers,
they they were there to throw out anyone who got
really drunk, but nobody was policing the dancers anymore. So
we were policing ourselves, which you know, as you can imagine,
was not always working out very well. So you have
to have healthy boundaries as a stripper. Or a sex
(10:11):
worker of any kind, because you are your own boss.
You're the ones setting the rules, and your customers and
clients are going to get away with exactly as much
as you let them. I mean not everyone. Some would
be very respectful, just naturally. But when you're dealing with
a lot of men, the majority of them, God love them.
And that is a man's nature too, to push the envelope.
That's why we have rocket ships and skyscrapers is because
(10:32):
it's in a man's nature to push the envelope. But
they're like that with women too, in intimate situations. And
so women definitely have to be the gatekeepers and we
have to be responsible and we have to set boundaries
and a lot of casey down. So my book is
about setting boundaries, learning how to set boundaries in your
life and with men and in strip clubs and in
every area.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
See I'm glad you said that, because I was going
to say, you know, this book is a teaching book.
You're teaching people how to adjust in their own personal lives.
This isn't just a story, but this is actually something
that people can learn from.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Thank you so much for saying that. That was absolutely
my intention when I wrote the book. I wanted it
to be a guide book for women in whether they're
in the sex industry or just in a relationship or
try or just dating. A guidebook for what are the
life skills that I'm going to need to keep me
safe in every area of my life. And that means
(11:24):
work and relationships and everywhere else. And that's learning how
to be vulnerable in a healthy way, learning to be
authentic about stating your wants and needs, and learning how
to set healthy boundaries that allow for you know, the
most beneficial rewarding relationships.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
The name of the book is Casey Dancer from Kristin Casey.
We'll be right back. Hey, thanks for coming back to
my conversation with author Kristin Casey. I got to tell
you I love the book cover. It says, don't even
assume that you think you know me, not until you
get to the final page of this book.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, I guess it does say that. I really I
love that pose. I did it. I just happened to
do a photoshoot earlier that year, and when my publisher
saw the pictures, he chose that one post for the
book cover. I thought, oh, that really is an appropriate picture.
It just kind of happened. It was a good happenstance.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
But see, I love things like that in the everyday world,
that things happen. You don't know why it's happening. You
don't know why you're at a photo shoot today, but hey,
you know several months later it's going to become something exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, it was a complete coincidence, if there is such
a thing as coincidences. Right.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Wow, So what did you learn by putting this book together?
Because I'm an author, I get it when we dive
in there and we you know, we tumble through those words.
I mean, we still pick something up and we adjust
our lives.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You know. It's funny. I do always learn something when
I'm writing. I think I know what the themes are,
I think I know what the storyline is, and then
and then it sort of blossoms and takes on a
life of its own. I didn't set out to write
this book about vulnerability, authenticity, and boundary settings. I wrote
the book, and then as I was going through it
for the first pass of edits, I realized it had
(13:05):
fallen into those three sections. And I realized more than
anything that one of the first things I learned in
sobriety was that I was not able to be vulnerable
at all. I had such big walls, and to this
day they're not nearly as big. But like most women,
I have trust issues around men. They started in childhood.
(13:26):
I have trust issues around women, and I like to
think they're all down. And I learned as I was
writing this book that my walls were bigger than I
ever imagined back then, and they're still. As I was
writing the book, I thought I had just started a
new relationship and I recognized some of my old patterns
(13:48):
coming up. And it was shocking to me because I
was writing about those old patterns as they were coming
up in small ways, and it really helped me to
see that, oh, I'm not being trusting. I'm pushing this
guy way a little bit when I shouldn't be, and
I'm doing it out of figure, not because of anything
he's doing. So it's really interesting to have this relationship
starting parallel to me writing a book about having healthy relationships,
(14:11):
and it ended up just being really eye opening and
helping my relationship, I think, to blossom quicker than it
would have.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
See. That's every bit the reason why I keep a
defragged journal defragging meaning I ask the questions that I
question the answers, and that's where I'm able to identify
the triggers. And if I see a trigger, it's like,
oh no, no, no, no, no, we know the outcome
of this.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah. We all have our triggers, don't we. They're set
in childhood usually, and they tend to be the same
ones throughout life. And you're I think your best hope
is that you can make them less touchy. You know,
they may always be there, but if you can recognize them,
if you can see them as they're being, as you're
being triggered, then you can. You can. You can subvert them,
you can sidestep them, you can manage them, you can
(14:54):
override them.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Let me ask you a personal question between the two
of us, we're both creative people. When I look at
that of names that you've dedicated the book to, did
you cry? Because I would have putting every one of
those names on there thinking did I forget somebody? Did
I leave somebody out?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Oh? I went over that list over and over and
over again. Thank you for asking, and I will say
it did it was emotional for me. A lot of
those artists are friends of mine, not all of them,
but some of them are dear friends of mine, and
a couple of them have passed away, and one of
them fairly recently, George Reef passed away fairly recently from
a brain tumor. Charles Rezer, who I had a wonderful
(15:31):
relationship with that I write about and then the book
He's an Incredible was an incredible guitar player both George
Reef was an incredible bass player. Both of them really
beloved in this town in Austin, not just for their
musical abilities, they were just wonderful, incredible men. And I
was very, very close to Charles, and so it was
very very sad to write about him in general. I
(15:52):
did cry when I wrote the passages about Charles.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, the name Chris Epting comes up. I've been with
Chris so many times. Did he help you with this book?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
This has been an incredible mentor and guide and touchstone.
He is so talented, and you know, he reached out
to me when my first book came out, and I
think we just uh talked about writing and we did
a short interview and then we eventually became friends. And
he's been invaluable. He's given me more great advice than
almost anyone He and Mark Elliott have to say. I
(16:21):
want to give props to Mark Elliott. He's the writer
in New York. He's got one of the best longest
careers of any writer I know. And those two men
have probably helped me more than anyone else as far
as writing mentors well.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Chris's legacy is the fact that he wants people to
tell their own story. He doesn't want them to disappear
from this planet without leaving something behind for the family.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
He really does. He has helped so many people do that.
It's amazing and he's the karma, the great karma that
that guy's got just from helping people put voice to
their stories. Because he's right, everybody does have a story.
I don't care if you're if you're a farmer, you
know raising cows. Everybody as an art to their life,
(17:01):
and if you can learn to tell your story in
an interesting way, people are fascinated by other people. I'll
read a memoir about about a midwife. I have no
interest in children or giving birth, but if you're but
I did. I read a memoir about a midwife, and
I just I couldn't put it down right. I read
a memoir about about a Mormon teenager. I have nothing
in common with this person, but I was fascinated by
(17:23):
her story. You know, it's all about how well you
can tell it, and that's what Chris does. He teaches
people how to do that.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Wow, Christian. Where can people go to find out more
about you? Because they've got to get their hands on
your first book and everything else that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Oh, thank you so much. Everything can be found on
my website Kristincasey dot com and that's k R I
S T I n c A s e y dot com.
And you'll find all my social media links there and
links to my to purchase my book and everything you need.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Man, you got to come back to this show anytime
in the future. You know that door is always going
to be open for you.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I'd love to arrow. I love talking to you. It's
always the most interesting conversation.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Will you be brilliant today? Okay, thanks you too,
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