November 2, 2025 • 24 mins
THE STATE OF BBQ: A TEXAS MONTHLY SPECIAL, which, for the first time, brings the story of how the magazine compiles its influential Top 50 BBQ Joints List under the direction of renowned barbecue editor Daniel Vaughn. Published only once every four years, the list is known as the “Olympics of Barbecue” and has the power to transform a restaurant’s business and launch careers into a national spotlight. What does it take to be Texas Monthly Magazine’s Barbecue editor? Vaughn has been to over 2500 BBQ joints in just about every community in Texas, averaging about 50 barbecue joints per month! Through the lens of barbecue — which has expanded to incorporate immigrant cuisines — Vaughn shows how Texas is changing, and smoked meats and profiling pitmasters is one way to tell that story.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Hey, what's going on to you?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I guess's do that for noon to you?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yeah, nothing's happened in the past hour, so therefore, you know,
I mean, you guys can just take life easy in
Texas if you want to.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yes, yes, Well, so where are you located.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
In Charlotte, North Carolina? Which would be another barbecue capital
of the world.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
I think that's debatable, I mean North Carolina, Yeah, Charlotte.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Well, we always look at Lexington, you know, just being
right there on the Highway's just up the street from Charlotte.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
So we're connected. We've got to be.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Yes, absolutely, And Redbridges Barbecue Lodge isn't too far away.
One of my favorites is over there in Peachland, about
forty five minutes east there John G's Barbecue.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
So what is it about barbecue that the popularity of
it is like through the roof? I mean, it is
so global and it's like, Okay, I want to know
the history of this in the way that it's like,
where did it actually come from, and was it food
present preservation before before it became really the thing that
we did on weekends and before a football game.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Well, I think if you were really at the history
of American barbecue, it started with huge trenches dug in
the ground and big fires built in them, burned down
to coals, and then greats put over those and whole
animals would be cooked. So whether that's whole pigs or
goats or sheep or you know, quarters of cattle for
(01:43):
big events. So then the word barbecue was really synonymous
with both the food and the event it was.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Happening, whether it was to celebrate.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
The Fourth of July or you know, the train tracks
finally coming to town, or politicians. You know, they do
it to draw in politicians to have debates in different cities,
they'd throw a big barbecue. So if you're looking at
the mid eighteen hundreds up until the turn of the
twentieth century, that's really the way that barbecue was consumed.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It wasn't until.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Really the late eighteen hundreds, eighteen eighties, and nineties where
you started to see meat markets offering barbecue for sale.
And that is where, you know, the idea that you
were talking about of you know, meat that was maybe
going bad or needed.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
To do something with it.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Take the stuff that wasn't selling and put it in
the smoker, and just as popularly to grind it up
and put it into.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
A casing and you know, sell it as sausage. So
that's really where we started to.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
See barbecue being for sale for the first time. And
so up until that point, really barbecue from East Texas
all the way to South Carolina pretty much looked this
same and it was all cooked similarly over direct heat,
with a mop sauce usually of vinegar and water to
(03:09):
add seasoning to it.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And you know, the.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Difference in protein was really just what were the local
farmers and ranchers willing to give up for the barbecue.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
It wasn't so much like.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
It's got to be pork if you're in North Carolina,
or it's got to be beef if you're in Texas.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
It's just, you know, what was what can we get donated?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
You know, you bring up a very interesting point about
about how it used to be all the same, but
now it's so regional because I can just go right
down the highway to Columbia, South Carolina, and it's going
to be a completely different experience with their barbecue.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I mean, South Carolina is one of those interesting states
where you know, there isn't any single style of barbecue
there because it's really broken up based on sauces and
based on pork shoulder versus a whole hog. And so
you get the mustard sauce which South Carolina is so
well known for. That's really a small pocket like in
Columbia or West Columbia, like you're talking about, where you
(04:05):
go up to the PD region up to Scott's Barbecue,
and you're not gonna find any mustard in that pepper
vinegar sauce.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
And you know North Carolina being similar to where.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
It's sort of broken in half, you know along that
Raleigh line, where everything to the east is the whole
hog with vinegar, to the west is pork shoulders with
also vinegar, but a little ketchup added into.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
One of the things that I mean, you guys have
got twenty five hundred plus barbecue restaurants in Texas. I mean,
are you guys doing what we're doing down here. We're
experiencing the fact that we can put this in this
small building over here, a place to get barbecue, but
in the back is going to be where we're gonna
cook it. We're not going to put it in a kitchen.
It's going to be in a trailer of sorts that's
back there with a jawiganic of an inside it.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
You know, the barbecue food truck really has become like
the new barbecue shack.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Right.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
You used to off with a barbecue shack and then
maybe build up or add on to it or make
enough money in that shack to build yourself a proper restaurant.
Nowadays that that happens in barbecue food trucks. And you
got a good one there in Charlotte and the Union Barbecue.
They do some Texas. They got a little Texas flavor
to them. Yeah, but yeah, the smokers are often on
(05:20):
the trailer, or there's a second trailer that is just
for the smoker along with that food truck. And so yeah,
that's something you're going to find really all over the country.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
One of the things that we did up in Montana
is that we wouldn't do just beef or even pork.
We would also do our salmon, and we I mean
we would do we would treat it the same exact way.
You could either smoke it all the way, make make
you know, like some sort of fish jerky or whatever.
But then when it came to barbecuing your salmon, Oh
my god, dude, I mean, because it's the same exact thing.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
It's just it's fish.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Well, and you know up in Seattle, I've had I
went to a spot it's no longer around, but they
were serving smoked elk shoulders.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
That was just so just such a great flavor to
it and like just enough fat on that shoulder to
keep it nice and juicy, and it was pulled and yeah,
it was.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
It was just perfect.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Well, how did you come up with the top fifty
barbecue joints? I mean, because, I mean that has to
be tough. I mean, we were talking about twenty five
hundred plus in Texas and it's your job to get
it down to fifty.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yes, it is, so we put out that list every
four years. Wow.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
But my full time job as the barbecue editor is
to drive around the state and eat barbecue. So I'm
always on the lookout always really essentially see my job
as a scouting mission for that list, you know. So
I'm working on it year after year to where we
can really put together a little bit more manageable number
(06:45):
for our big team to go out for the barbecue
list every four years. So this time, I think we
had three hundred and twenty three thirty somewhere around there
different barbecue joints that we visited as a team, brought
back score sheets, and then I went and made a
bunch of revisits to narrow it down to our top fifty.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
So now when you go out there and you look
at everybody at how they're playing it, it's almost like
there could be some farm teams when it comes to
Barbara making barbecue. I mean, you've got your professional teams.
Do people look to you saying, Okay, what are we
doing wrong so that we can get into let's even
the top one hundred?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, yeah, of course. You know.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
I think it's like any restaurant experience where you go
in and you know, the server might come by and
ask how everything is, and you know their sincerity of.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
You know, do they really want to know how everything was?
Speaker 4 (07:35):
And it's the same way with these barbecue john owners,
Like some of them come by. Many of them know
who I am and what I'm doing there, and they'll
ask and you know, I'm like, all right, well do
you really want to know? And you know, sometimes they do,
and I'll be just straight up front with them and tell.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Them everything that I would improve.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
There's a place how BV Barbecue in Arlington, Texas.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
It's a food truck and.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
It's run by well he's nineteen now, but he opened
it up when he was eighteen.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
And when he did, I went out there.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
And visited after stopen for a few months, and I asked,
you know, he asked me how everything was, and I said, well,
let me put it to you this way, like a
year from now. You keep at this and you do
this week after week, and you're you're cooking and cooking,
You're going to be embarrassed by what you're serving now.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Like not that it's bad, it's not terrible. You will
look back. And I revisited that just recently and you.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Know, he said, you know what, it hurt to hear
it then, but you were so right, Wow, you know
it's just that's how much better you can get a
barbecue through repetition?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
What is it about gas station barbecue that gives it
its own unique appearance as well as flavor? Because I mean,
we have a QT here that has a barbecue sandwich
that is just mind blowing dude, and it's like, you're
a gas station. How is it you're doing this?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Yeah, Well, and the other thing you're talking about as
far as the esthetic is that gas station barbecue is
probably going to becoming a style, fome container of something.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah it is, and so it.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Doesn't get that the benefit of being laid out beautifully
on a barbecue tray that get shot from above, you know,
like we see so much on Instagram. So yeah, I
mean I think the other thing about gas station barbecue
two is you know, the expectations.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You go in with high expectations and it's a little
harder to be wowed, right, And you go in with
like it's gas station barbecue, how good you?
Speaker 4 (09:28):
And then they give you something great and it's like,
oh wow, this is like the surprise is I think
part of that too.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
How important are the side dishes because I mean, if
you're not walking away with a plateful of something, you're
not eating it, right.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, side dishes.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
I mean, in Texas, we've got potato salad, coleslaw, and
pinto beans just about every barbecue joint out there. But
the side options are the ones that just continue to grow.
Whether it's you know, green beans, collared greens, mac and cheese,
cheese grits, a low taste, it is certainly a popular
(10:04):
one here in Texas. So yeah, those side dishes, and
you know how well you do them too, Like you
open up just a can of ranch beans and throw
it in the microwave. That's that's going to show a
little bit how you care about your barbecue versus taking
a bag of dry pinto beans and turn it into
something special.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah, because I'll sit there with the collared greens and
I'll utilize the vinegar that comes with it, and because
I'll put that right into the barbecue, and just so
I can have that, it gives it a little bit
more of a pizazz or a little bit of a bite.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Well, yeah, it also makes you feel like you're eating
a little healthier because yeah, bite right, so true.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, I'm meaning for the health of the man, that's
what it's all about.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Yeah, And if there are greens and mac and cheese
on a barbecue joint.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Men, you know I'm gonna order that combination. I just
I love the two of those together.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Well, you guys have got to be thrown down a
huge party though when you announce the top fifty barbecue places,
because I mean, this isn't something you just put in
a magazine, are you guys?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Are you guys?
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Is is there going to be like a like first,
It's like we'll have like events here where it's all
about the food of Charlotte. And are you guys doing
the same thing where it's like all about the barbecue.
Everybody gets together, come try it, let's have some fun.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Yes, Every year, the first weekend in November, we have
the Big Texas Monthly Barbecue Festival in Lockhart, Texas. And
Lockhart is the Barbecue Capital of Texas as designated by
the legislature.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
It's official.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
And they've got many barbecue joints right there in Lockhart,
which is a.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Pretty small talent. It's about twelve to thirteen.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Thousand people, but I've got all kinds of barbecue history.
Crit's Market it's been opened since nineteen hundred, Blacks Barbecue
since nineteen thirty two.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Sism Trail is one of the young'ins open since nineteen
seventy eight.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
But then you get Smitty's, you have Terry Blacks, and
then you have BARBERSVH. Which is the one barbecue joint
that is in our top fifty, is right there on
the square in Lockhart.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Anybody using any of the so called mystery meat or
what do they call it, you know where it's not
really meat, but it's like, you know, a plant based.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
There's not a whole lot of plant based barbecue in Lockhart.
There is summer, you know, there's there are some vegan
barbecue trucks using like satan and tofu, you know there.
But I find a lot more joy and I like vegetables, right,
So going to a place like Loroy and Lewis, which
is number two on our list in Austin, Texas, they
(12:30):
do the finest smoke carrot, like maybe the best carrot
you're going to ever eat. There's smoke carrot which then
they glaze and grill, so it's a little blackened and
sweet and just just delicious.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Please do not move. There's more with Daniel Vaughan coming
up next. We're talking about Texas barbecue. We're back with
Daniel Vaughan.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
How important is the bun or the bread itself, because
I'm not a bread person. But at the same time,
I don't know if I could do pulled pork without it.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, well yeah, pulled pork. You gotta have that squishy.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
White bun, right, the one the way the barbecue sauce
is gonna, you know, really soak into here in Texas
we have Texas toast is often an option for your
barbecue sandwich. For me, I'm going to prefer anything that's
at least heated up somewhere, whether it's a steamed bun
or buttered and gritled, is really going to improve that
(13:26):
barbecue sandwich. But yeah, the bun is important.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Well maybe it's because I'm a radio guy for all
these decades. But the thing is is, I've always liked
cold barbecue the best. And I don't know if it's
because I can sit there, it's had time to mix together,
it's had time to do different things. But I mean
I will sit there and devour cold barbecue like it's candy.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Well you know, did you say pulled.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Or cold colds in like col Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Yeah, okay, I got you. Well, you know, I come
home with a lot of barbecue leftovers hit in many
places in a single day. Right, But you know, you
can certainly reheat barbecue in many different ways, But I
don't think there's a better way to eat a leftover
pork rib than just grabbing a cold red out of
the fridge and.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Awing on it.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yep, yep, And you know, and you know it sounds gross,
but just keep licking that bone, dude, because I mean,
because there's just something in there that your your palette
wants and it's gonna find it. Yes, absolutely, yeah, because
that was such a culture shock for me when I
came to the Carolinas. Is that growing up in Montana
we had the beef ribs. But the thing is is
that when I came here, I was like, well, why
are they like?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Baby?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
What are they connected for? I don't I don't understand
what you're doing here. Do you run into the culture
shocks like that as you travel the East Coast?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
You know?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, it is. I guess the culture shock.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Is more when there's discussions of barbecue and what barbecue
is and isn't. And I think there are a lot
of folks I call them the hog Mattics, right the
ones in the Carolinas and up the East coast, who
would just swear that there's no such thing as barbecue,
it's not pork. That if it's not pork, it's not
barb and therefore Texas just doesn't have any say in
(15:03):
the matter. But then, you know, then I come to
the Carolinas and I eat it a place like John
G's serving some of the best brisket in the country.
Right there in Peachland, North Carolina. You got man, you
got good barbecue. Up in Raleigh, Lawrence Barbecue does some
really incredible brisket. Damp Good Barbecue is another one doing brisket,
and over in Eatonton, North Carolina is Old Colony Smokehouse.
(15:27):
So you know, I guess the bigger culture shock is
to go to a place like the Carolinas and to
find them embracing Texas barbecue, specifically smoke brisket in a
way that that's just really surprising.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And having certainly finding a fan base for it too.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
So what is your gut when it comes to brisket
showing up in hot dogs? Because that's starting to happen
a lot here in the Carolinas. Where where they're they're
fusing them together, the hot dog as well as the brisket.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Okay, well I haven't run into one of those, and
I I'm a sucker for the slaw Dog. So get
going through Lexington. The last time I went through Lexington,
every stop I made, I got one of the slaw
dogs just to see with some chili, some slaw, some mustard,
some onions, you know, just to compare one to the next.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And as you know, if.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
You're getting sick of barbecue, and you know, after a
long road trip, the slaw dog is always satisfied.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So now, are you going to turn this into a
national competition, because I could totally see you doing this.
You're where You're out there representing the state of Texas
and then all the other you know, forty nine states
get together and we take on each other. Are they
doing anything like that?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
You know, not that I know of.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
You know, there's a Southern Living Top fifty barbecue list
that includes all of the South, but doesn't really go
beyond that. Last year I published a list called the
United States of Texas Barbecue. Yeah, it did focus just
on Texas barbecue, Texas style barbecue, and I went all
over the country, trying different barbecue joints all the way
(17:00):
from Oregon to Florida, and you know, I found a
lot of really great barbecue, found some really true representations
of Texas barbecue, and came away with a top fifty.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
List outside of Texas. So there's plenty of good stuff
out there.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
When I go to Midwoods here in Charlotte, I mean,
they do it Texas style and versus somebody who's going
to do with Southern style. And it's like, what is
it about the scent outside the restaurant? Because I would
rather spend thirty minutes out there getting ready for dinner
just taking it all in.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Now let's go devour.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Yeah, And that's something that you want to smell, like
any good barbecue joined certainly if they're going to be
open the next day, they're going to be smoking the
next day is barbecue while you're there visiting. So if
you don't smell that smoke or see that woodpile, then
there might be an issue there.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
So what is it that you're up to in the
way of growing for it, Because I mean, you stay
busy all year long. What it's like you have to
explain yourself to your bosses, Well, this is what I'm
doing today, guys, so that I can get to this
over here.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah there.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
You know, every every couple of weeks, I got to
let them know what travel plans are and where I'm headed.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Because Texas is a big state.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
There's a whole lot to cover, and you know, whether
it's you know, driving down to Austin or Houston or
flying up to Lubbock or Amarillo or out de la Passo,
so you know.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
And then I'm always trying to keep up with the.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
New Texas barbecue joints that are opening up around the state.
I mentioned Lawrence Barbecue, which just opened up a new
location and carry which I want to go give a
try to. There's a few places in Virginia that are
doing some new spots doing briskets.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
So yeah, I'm always out there traveling.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
So now is barbecue in Texas pretty much like Savece
in the way that it's all regional. In other words,
if the closer you get to the golf, you're gonna
start getting you know, shrimp, or you're gonna get fish
mixed involved with it as well. Or and then when
you get back up into the dryer part of it,
it's going to be you know, more hardcore, like maybe
some veggies that are grown in that area.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
You know, it used to be a lot more regional
like that.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
I think there's a little more sameness across the state,
especially with you know, those big beautiful barbecue trays being
so popular. You know, I will say that as you
get out further west, out in El Paso and even
up in the Panhandle, you'll find a lot more green
chilies instead of Halopanio's. Yep, so green chili, green chili,
(19:23):
mac and cheese, corn bread. So yeah, that's one of
those local flavors. And when you're in East Texas, I
think there's certainly more of a sandwich culture, saucy, a
lot of sauce on the sandwiches. And then down in
south East Texas right there along the Louisiana border, a
(19:44):
whole lot of smoke boudan, so you know, using certainly
traditional methods making budan, but also doing a textified version
smoke brisket in that boudan instead of pork.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I've actually seen people that if they didn't have the
macaroni and cheese as part of the what's on the menu,
no I'm sorry, I'm I'm gonna have something else. I'm
not doing the barbecue. They've got to have that mac
and cheese mixed in with it for some reason.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
Yeah, I mean, I don't have any hard and fast
rules like that. If it's got barbecue on the sign,
I'm going to stop in there. But yeah, the mac
and cheese is certainly one of those popular sides. Corn
of so many different varieties too, corn putting corn cream,
corn low tase corn bread.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, So what goes better with good Texas barbecue? Classic
rock country or are we talking some hip hop here?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I think some classic rock country. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
I mean when I think barbecue, I think Robert Olkeene.
It doesn't hurt that he has a song called barbecue,
but just you know, one of our classic Texas singer songwriters.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
So basically I would think that the music scene is
pretty much built on Texas barbecue because I mean, I mean,
look at all the way back to Waylon Jenny's. I mean,
I mean he had to have done some as well.
Do you ever do history like that to find out
what the big wigs of music or even entertainment did
with their Texas barbecue?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:03):
I mean and writing a story about Sam's Barbecue and
Austin that was a spot that was super popular with
Stevie ray Vaughan really and he would fly that barbecue
around with him and share it with people.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
You know, I did an interview I mentioned Robert Earl Keene.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
I talked to him about that song barbecue and trying
to track down the barbecue joint that really opened his
eyes to what barbecue could be and really ended up
being the inspiration for that song and tracked it down.
And it's long closed in Sea Lee, Texas, but I
was able to meet with some of the grandchildren of
(21:39):
the original owner who still had the barbecue sauce recipe,
And so I bought a half a gallon of barbecue
sauce in a milk jug, you know, with an index
card taped on it label and brought it home and
grilled some chicken with it.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
So do they do they do the barbecue joints like
they do in Lexeton here where it's just right off
the highway. It's the only exit off the highway to
go into the barbecue. And you're right on that highway again.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
And you know you certainly see a lot of barbecue
joints like those exit signs that show you all the
different businesses, and almost all of them it's chains. Right
here in Texas, there's a lot of you know, family
owned mom and pop barbecue joints that also throw their
name up there if they're right right off the highway
to draw people in.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Wow, all right, where can people go to find out
more about you, Daniel? Because you're you're associated with PBS two,
which is a brilliant place to hang your hat.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
Yeah, well, you know, the Texas Monthly, our website has
a dedicated barbecue channel which has all the barbecue content
on it, whether it's the articles that I'm writing every week,
or the big Top fifty list or that United States
and Barbecue list that we did last year, and also
clips from the PBS show. We have been partnering with
(22:50):
PBS for the show, you know, for this is our
second season now, but this is our first hour long
special dedicated to barbecue, called The State of Barbecue. It's
going to be airing nationally on all PVS stations. I
know here in Dallas it'll be at eight pm on
Halloween night, and you know then it'll be on every
(23:12):
other PVS station as well, and we're featuring seven different
barbecue joint stories, you know, from all the way from
El Paso on up to Pilot Point, Texas and over
to Port Lavaca down near Corpus Christie. And we're also
featuring a segment all about the making of the Top
(23:33):
fifty barbecue lists, so you'll be able to see how
that team is put together and see some clips from
the road.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
What's your spinal tap moment? Mine was trying to barbecue
a turkey and then I also tried to do it,
you know, just regular barbecuing and telling my daughter it
would be done in twenty minutes. What's your mistake?
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Oh man, I say, I would say my mistake is,
you know, if they're if you're grilling something, if you're
if you're grilling anything with barbecue sauce, is putting it
on too early, right, because it's going to end up
burning all over the place. You want to wait till
that meat is almost done before you start to slather
it on the barbecue sauce. Otherwise you're going to end
up with a burnt puck.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
That's me, that's me. I Yeah, that's exactly what happens
to me and I. Then I have to sit there
and scrub that dang pan over and over again, never
really getting to clean again.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yes, yes, put it on late.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Oh dude, you got to come back to this show
anytime in the future. I could talk barbecue with you.
Twenty four to seven.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Well, it's been a pleasure talking with you, and I
hope you find some good luck out there on the
barbecue trail.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Absolutely be brilliant today, okay, sir
Speaker 2 (24:34):
All right, you too,
If you love listening to podcasts, you've got to have
a choice, right Arrow dot net A r r oe
dot Net. It's not just about talking to the rock
stars and the chefs and the movie stars. This is
about your walk of life. Arrow dot Net A r
r oe dot Net.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Hey, what's going on to you?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I guess's do that for noon to you?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yeah, nothing's happened in the past hour, so therefore, you know,
I mean, you guys can just take life easy in
Texas if you want to.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yes, yes, Well, so where are you located.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
In Charlotte, North Carolina? Which would be another barbecue capital
of the world.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
I think that's debatable, I mean North Carolina, Yeah, Charlotte.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Well, we always look at Lexington, you know, just being
right there on the Highway's just up the street from Charlotte.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
So we're connected. We've got to be.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Yes, absolutely, And Redbridges Barbecue Lodge isn't too far away.
One of my favorites is over there in Peachland, about
forty five minutes east there John G's Barbecue.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
So what is it about barbecue that the popularity of
it is like through the roof? I mean, it is
so global and it's like, Okay, I want to know
the history of this in the way that it's like,
where did it actually come from, and was it food
present preservation before before it became really the thing that
we did on weekends and before a football game.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Well, I think if you were really at the history
of American barbecue, it started with huge trenches dug in
the ground and big fires built in them, burned down
to coals, and then greats put over those and whole
animals would be cooked. So whether that's whole pigs or
goats or sheep or you know, quarters of cattle for
(01:43):
big events. So then the word barbecue was really synonymous
with both the food and the event it was.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Happening, whether it was to celebrate.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
The Fourth of July or you know, the train tracks
finally coming to town, or politicians. You know, they do
it to draw in politicians to have debates in different cities,
they'd throw a big barbecue. So if you're looking at
the mid eighteen hundreds up until the turn of the
twentieth century, that's really the way that barbecue was consumed.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It wasn't until.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Really the late eighteen hundreds, eighteen eighties, and nineties where
you started to see meat markets offering barbecue for sale.
And that is where, you know, the idea that you
were talking about of you know, meat that was maybe
going bad or needed.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
To do something with it.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Take the stuff that wasn't selling and put it in
the smoker, and just as popularly to grind it up
and put it into.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
A casing and you know, sell it as sausage. So
that's really where we started to.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
See barbecue being for sale for the first time. And
so up until that point, really barbecue from East Texas
all the way to South Carolina pretty much looked this
same and it was all cooked similarly over direct heat,
with a mop sauce usually of vinegar and water to
(03:09):
add seasoning to it.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And you know, the.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Difference in protein was really just what were the local
farmers and ranchers willing to give up for the barbecue.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
It wasn't so much like.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
It's got to be pork if you're in North Carolina,
or it's got to be beef if you're in Texas.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
It's just, you know, what was what can we get donated?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
You know, you bring up a very interesting point about
about how it used to be all the same, but
now it's so regional because I can just go right
down the highway to Columbia, South Carolina, and it's going
to be a completely different experience with their barbecue.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I mean, South Carolina is one of those interesting states
where you know, there isn't any single style of barbecue
there because it's really broken up based on sauces and
based on pork shoulder versus a whole hog. And so
you get the mustard sauce which South Carolina is so
well known for. That's really a small pocket like in
Columbia or West Columbia, like you're talking about, where you
(04:05):
go up to the PD region up to Scott's Barbecue,
and you're not gonna find any mustard in that pepper
vinegar sauce.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
And you know North Carolina being similar to where.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
It's sort of broken in half, you know along that
Raleigh line, where everything to the east is the whole
hog with vinegar, to the west is pork shoulders with
also vinegar, but a little ketchup added into.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
One of the things that I mean, you guys have
got twenty five hundred plus barbecue restaurants in Texas. I mean,
are you guys doing what we're doing down here. We're
experiencing the fact that we can put this in this
small building over here, a place to get barbecue, but
in the back is going to be where we're gonna
cook it. We're not going to put it in a kitchen.
It's going to be in a trailer of sorts that's
back there with a jawiganic of an inside it.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
You know, the barbecue food truck really has become like
the new barbecue shack.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Right.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
You used to off with a barbecue shack and then
maybe build up or add on to it or make
enough money in that shack to build yourself a proper restaurant.
Nowadays that that happens in barbecue food trucks. And you
got a good one there in Charlotte and the Union Barbecue.
They do some Texas. They got a little Texas flavor
to them. Yeah, but yeah, the smokers are often on
(05:20):
the trailer, or there's a second trailer that is just
for the smoker along with that food truck. And so yeah,
that's something you're going to find really all over the country.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
One of the things that we did up in Montana
is that we wouldn't do just beef or even pork.
We would also do our salmon, and we I mean
we would do we would treat it the same exact way.
You could either smoke it all the way, make make
you know, like some sort of fish jerky or whatever.
But then when it came to barbecuing your salmon, Oh
my god, dude, I mean, because it's the same exact thing.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
It's just it's fish.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Well, and you know up in Seattle, I've had I
went to a spot it's no longer around, but they
were serving smoked elk shoulders.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
That was just so just such a great flavor to
it and like just enough fat on that shoulder to
keep it nice and juicy, and it was pulled and yeah,
it was.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
It was just perfect.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Well, how did you come up with the top fifty
barbecue joints? I mean, because, I mean that has to
be tough. I mean, we were talking about twenty five
hundred plus in Texas and it's your job to get
it down to fifty.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yes, it is, so we put out that list every
four years. Wow.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
But my full time job as the barbecue editor is
to drive around the state and eat barbecue. So I'm
always on the lookout always really essentially see my job
as a scouting mission for that list, you know. So
I'm working on it year after year to where we
can really put together a little bit more manageable number
(06:45):
for our big team to go out for the barbecue
list every four years. So this time, I think we
had three hundred and twenty three thirty somewhere around there
different barbecue joints that we visited as a team, brought
back score sheets, and then I went and made a
bunch of revisits to narrow it down to our top fifty.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
So now when you go out there and you look
at everybody at how they're playing it, it's almost like
there could be some farm teams when it comes to
Barbara making barbecue. I mean, you've got your professional teams.
Do people look to you saying, Okay, what are we
doing wrong so that we can get into let's even
the top one hundred?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, yeah, of course. You know.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
I think it's like any restaurant experience where you go
in and you know, the server might come by and
ask how everything is, and you know their sincerity of.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
You know, do they really want to know how everything was?
Speaker 4 (07:35):
And it's the same way with these barbecue john owners,
Like some of them come by. Many of them know
who I am and what I'm doing there, and they'll
ask and you know, I'm like, all right, well do
you really want to know? And you know, sometimes they do,
and I'll be just straight up front with them and tell.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Them everything that I would improve.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
There's a place how BV Barbecue in Arlington, Texas.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
It's a food truck and.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
It's run by well he's nineteen now, but he opened
it up when he was eighteen.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
And when he did, I went out there.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
And visited after stopen for a few months, and I asked,
you know, he asked me how everything was, and I said, well,
let me put it to you this way, like a
year from now. You keep at this and you do
this week after week, and you're you're cooking and cooking,
You're going to be embarrassed by what you're serving now.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Like not that it's bad, it's not terrible. You will
look back. And I revisited that just recently and you.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Know, he said, you know what, it hurt to hear
it then, but you were so right, Wow, you know
it's just that's how much better you can get a
barbecue through repetition?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
What is it about gas station barbecue that gives it
its own unique appearance as well as flavor? Because I mean,
we have a QT here that has a barbecue sandwich
that is just mind blowing dude, and it's like, you're
a gas station. How is it you're doing this?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Yeah, Well, and the other thing you're talking about as
far as the esthetic is that gas station barbecue is
probably going to becoming a style, fome container of something.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah it is, and so it.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Doesn't get that the benefit of being laid out beautifully
on a barbecue tray that get shot from above, you know,
like we see so much on Instagram. So yeah, I
mean I think the other thing about gas station barbecue
two is you know, the expectations.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You go in with high expectations and it's a little
harder to be wowed, right, And you go in with
like it's gas station barbecue, how good you?
Speaker 4 (09:28):
And then they give you something great and it's like,
oh wow, this is like the surprise is I think
part of that too.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
How important are the side dishes because I mean, if
you're not walking away with a plateful of something, you're
not eating it, right.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, side dishes.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
I mean, in Texas, we've got potato salad, coleslaw, and
pinto beans just about every barbecue joint out there. But
the side options are the ones that just continue to grow.
Whether it's you know, green beans, collared greens, mac and cheese,
cheese grits, a low taste, it is certainly a popular
(10:04):
one here in Texas. So yeah, those side dishes, and
you know how well you do them too, Like you
open up just a can of ranch beans and throw
it in the microwave. That's that's going to show a
little bit how you care about your barbecue versus taking
a bag of dry pinto beans and turn it into
something special.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah, because I'll sit there with the collared greens and
I'll utilize the vinegar that comes with it, and because
I'll put that right into the barbecue, and just so
I can have that, it gives it a little bit
more of a pizazz or a little bit of a bite.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Well, yeah, it also makes you feel like you're eating
a little healthier because yeah, bite right, so true.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, I'm meaning for the health of the man, that's
what it's all about.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Yeah, And if there are greens and mac and cheese
on a barbecue joint.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Men, you know I'm gonna order that combination. I just
I love the two of those together.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Well, you guys have got to be thrown down a
huge party though when you announce the top fifty barbecue places,
because I mean, this isn't something you just put in
a magazine, are you guys?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Are you guys?
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Is is there going to be like a like first,
It's like we'll have like events here where it's all
about the food of Charlotte. And are you guys doing
the same thing where it's like all about the barbecue.
Everybody gets together, come try it, let's have some fun.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Yes, Every year, the first weekend in November, we have
the Big Texas Monthly Barbecue Festival in Lockhart, Texas. And
Lockhart is the Barbecue Capital of Texas as designated by
the legislature.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
It's official.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
And they've got many barbecue joints right there in Lockhart,
which is a.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Pretty small talent. It's about twelve to thirteen.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Thousand people, but I've got all kinds of barbecue history.
Crit's Market it's been opened since nineteen hundred, Blacks Barbecue
since nineteen thirty two.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Sism Trail is one of the young'ins open since nineteen
seventy eight.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
But then you get Smitty's, you have Terry Blacks, and
then you have BARBERSVH. Which is the one barbecue joint
that is in our top fifty, is right there on
the square in Lockhart.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Anybody using any of the so called mystery meat or
what do they call it, you know where it's not
really meat, but it's like, you know, a plant based.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
There's not a whole lot of plant based barbecue in Lockhart.
There is summer, you know, there's there are some vegan
barbecue trucks using like satan and tofu, you know there.
But I find a lot more joy and I like vegetables, right,
So going to a place like Loroy and Lewis, which
is number two on our list in Austin, Texas, they
(12:30):
do the finest smoke carrot, like maybe the best carrot
you're going to ever eat. There's smoke carrot which then
they glaze and grill, so it's a little blackened and
sweet and just just delicious.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Please do not move. There's more with Daniel Vaughan coming
up next. We're talking about Texas barbecue. We're back with
Daniel Vaughan.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
How important is the bun or the bread itself, because
I'm not a bread person. But at the same time,
I don't know if I could do pulled pork without it.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, well yeah, pulled pork. You gotta have that squishy.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
White bun, right, the one the way the barbecue sauce
is gonna, you know, really soak into here in Texas
we have Texas toast is often an option for your
barbecue sandwich. For me, I'm going to prefer anything that's
at least heated up somewhere, whether it's a steamed bun
or buttered and gritled, is really going to improve that
(13:26):
barbecue sandwich. But yeah, the bun is important.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Well maybe it's because I'm a radio guy for all
these decades. But the thing is is, I've always liked
cold barbecue the best. And I don't know if it's
because I can sit there, it's had time to mix together,
it's had time to do different things. But I mean
I will sit there and devour cold barbecue like it's candy.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Well you know, did you say pulled.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Or cold colds in like col Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Yeah, okay, I got you. Well, you know, I come
home with a lot of barbecue leftovers hit in many
places in a single day. Right, But you know, you
can certainly reheat barbecue in many different ways, But I
don't think there's a better way to eat a leftover
pork rib than just grabbing a cold red out of
the fridge and.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Awing on it.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yep, yep, And you know, and you know it sounds gross,
but just keep licking that bone, dude, because I mean,
because there's just something in there that your your palette
wants and it's gonna find it. Yes, absolutely, yeah, because
that was such a culture shock for me when I
came to the Carolinas. Is that growing up in Montana
we had the beef ribs. But the thing is is
that when I came here, I was like, well, why
are they like?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Baby?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
What are they connected for? I don't I don't understand
what you're doing here. Do you run into the culture
shocks like that as you travel the East Coast?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
You know?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, it is. I guess the culture shock.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Is more when there's discussions of barbecue and what barbecue
is and isn't. And I think there are a lot
of folks I call them the hog Mattics, right the
ones in the Carolinas and up the East coast, who
would just swear that there's no such thing as barbecue,
it's not pork. That if it's not pork, it's not
barb and therefore Texas just doesn't have any say in
(15:03):
the matter. But then, you know, then I come to
the Carolinas and I eat it a place like John
G's serving some of the best brisket in the country.
Right there in Peachland, North Carolina. You got man, you
got good barbecue. Up in Raleigh, Lawrence Barbecue does some
really incredible brisket. Damp Good Barbecue is another one doing brisket,
and over in Eatonton, North Carolina is Old Colony Smokehouse.
(15:27):
So you know, I guess the bigger culture shock is
to go to a place like the Carolinas and to
find them embracing Texas barbecue, specifically smoke brisket in a
way that that's just really surprising.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And having certainly finding a fan base for it too.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
So what is your gut when it comes to brisket
showing up in hot dogs? Because that's starting to happen
a lot here in the Carolinas. Where where they're they're
fusing them together, the hot dog as well as the brisket.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Okay, well I haven't run into one of those, and
I I'm a sucker for the slaw Dog. So get
going through Lexington. The last time I went through Lexington,
every stop I made, I got one of the slaw
dogs just to see with some chili, some slaw, some mustard,
some onions, you know, just to compare one to the next.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And as you know, if.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
You're getting sick of barbecue, and you know, after a
long road trip, the slaw dog is always satisfied.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
So now, are you going to turn this into a
national competition, because I could totally see you doing this.
You're where You're out there representing the state of Texas
and then all the other you know, forty nine states
get together and we take on each other. Are they
doing anything like that?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
You know, not that I know of.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
You know, there's a Southern Living Top fifty barbecue list
that includes all of the South, but doesn't really go
beyond that. Last year I published a list called the
United States of Texas Barbecue. Yeah, it did focus just
on Texas barbecue, Texas style barbecue, and I went all
over the country, trying different barbecue joints all the way
(17:00):
from Oregon to Florida, and you know, I found a
lot of really great barbecue, found some really true representations
of Texas barbecue, and came away with a top fifty.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
List outside of Texas. So there's plenty of good stuff
out there.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
When I go to Midwoods here in Charlotte, I mean,
they do it Texas style and versus somebody who's going
to do with Southern style. And it's like, what is
it about the scent outside the restaurant? Because I would
rather spend thirty minutes out there getting ready for dinner
just taking it all in.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Now let's go devour.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Yeah, And that's something that you want to smell, like
any good barbecue joined certainly if they're going to be
open the next day, they're going to be smoking the
next day is barbecue while you're there visiting. So if
you don't smell that smoke or see that woodpile, then
there might be an issue there.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
So what is it that you're up to in the
way of growing for it, Because I mean, you stay
busy all year long. What it's like you have to
explain yourself to your bosses, Well, this is what I'm
doing today, guys, so that I can get to this
over here.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah there.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
You know, every every couple of weeks, I got to
let them know what travel plans are and where I'm headed.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Because Texas is a big state.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
There's a whole lot to cover, and you know, whether
it's you know, driving down to Austin or Houston or
flying up to Lubbock or Amarillo or out de la Passo,
so you know.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
And then I'm always trying to keep up with the.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
New Texas barbecue joints that are opening up around the state.
I mentioned Lawrence Barbecue, which just opened up a new
location and carry which I want to go give a
try to. There's a few places in Virginia that are
doing some new spots doing briskets.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
So yeah, I'm always out there traveling.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
So now is barbecue in Texas pretty much like Savece
in the way that it's all regional. In other words,
if the closer you get to the golf, you're gonna
start getting you know, shrimp, or you're gonna get fish
mixed involved with it as well. Or and then when
you get back up into the dryer part of it,
it's going to be you know, more hardcore, like maybe
some veggies that are grown in that area.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
You know, it used to be a lot more regional
like that.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
I think there's a little more sameness across the state,
especially with you know, those big beautiful barbecue trays being
so popular. You know, I will say that as you
get out further west, out in El Paso and even
up in the Panhandle, you'll find a lot more green
chilies instead of Halopanio's. Yep, so green chili, green chili,
(19:23):
mac and cheese, corn bread. So yeah, that's one of
those local flavors. And when you're in East Texas, I
think there's certainly more of a sandwich culture, saucy, a
lot of sauce on the sandwiches. And then down in
south East Texas right there along the Louisiana border, a
(19:44):
whole lot of smoke boudan, so you know, using certainly
traditional methods making budan, but also doing a textified version
smoke brisket in that boudan instead of pork.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I've actually seen people that if they didn't have the
macaroni and cheese as part of the what's on the menu,
no I'm sorry, I'm I'm gonna have something else. I'm
not doing the barbecue. They've got to have that mac
and cheese mixed in with it for some reason.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
Yeah, I mean, I don't have any hard and fast
rules like that. If it's got barbecue on the sign,
I'm going to stop in there. But yeah, the mac
and cheese is certainly one of those popular sides. Corn
of so many different varieties too, corn putting corn cream,
corn low tase corn bread.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, So what goes better with good Texas barbecue? Classic
rock country or are we talking some hip hop here?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I think some classic rock country. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
I mean when I think barbecue, I think Robert Olkeene.
It doesn't hurt that he has a song called barbecue,
but just you know, one of our classic Texas singer songwriters.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
So basically I would think that the music scene is
pretty much built on Texas barbecue because I mean, I mean,
look at all the way back to Waylon Jenny's. I mean,
I mean he had to have done some as well.
Do you ever do history like that to find out
what the big wigs of music or even entertainment did
with their Texas barbecue?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:03):
I mean and writing a story about Sam's Barbecue and
Austin that was a spot that was super popular with
Stevie ray Vaughan really and he would fly that barbecue
around with him and share it with people.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
You know, I did an interview I mentioned Robert Earl Keene.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
I talked to him about that song barbecue and trying
to track down the barbecue joint that really opened his
eyes to what barbecue could be and really ended up
being the inspiration for that song and tracked it down.
And it's long closed in Sea Lee, Texas, but I
was able to meet with some of the grandchildren of
(21:39):
the original owner who still had the barbecue sauce recipe,
And so I bought a half a gallon of barbecue
sauce in a milk jug, you know, with an index
card taped on it label and brought it home and
grilled some chicken with it.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
So do they do they do the barbecue joints like
they do in Lexeton here where it's just right off
the highway. It's the only exit off the highway to
go into the barbecue. And you're right on that highway again.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
And you know you certainly see a lot of barbecue
joints like those exit signs that show you all the
different businesses, and almost all of them it's chains. Right
here in Texas, there's a lot of you know, family
owned mom and pop barbecue joints that also throw their
name up there if they're right right off the highway
to draw people in.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Wow, all right, where can people go to find out
more about you, Daniel? Because you're you're associated with PBS two,
which is a brilliant place to hang your hat.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
Yeah, well, you know, the Texas Monthly, our website has
a dedicated barbecue channel which has all the barbecue content
on it, whether it's the articles that I'm writing every week,
or the big Top fifty list or that United States
and Barbecue list that we did last year, and also
clips from the PBS show. We have been partnering with
(22:50):
PBS for the show, you know, for this is our
second season now, but this is our first hour long
special dedicated to barbecue, called The State of Barbecue. It's
going to be airing nationally on all PVS stations. I
know here in Dallas it'll be at eight pm on
Halloween night, and you know then it'll be on every
(23:12):
other PVS station as well, and we're featuring seven different
barbecue joint stories, you know, from all the way from
El Paso on up to Pilot Point, Texas and over
to Port Lavaca down near Corpus Christie. And we're also
featuring a segment all about the making of the Top
(23:33):
fifty barbecue lists, so you'll be able to see how
that team is put together and see some clips from
the road.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
What's your spinal tap moment? Mine was trying to barbecue
a turkey and then I also tried to do it,
you know, just regular barbecuing and telling my daughter it
would be done in twenty minutes. What's your mistake?
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Oh man, I say, I would say my mistake is,
you know, if they're if you're grilling something, if you're
if you're grilling anything with barbecue sauce, is putting it
on too early, right, because it's going to end up
burning all over the place. You want to wait till
that meat is almost done before you start to slather
it on the barbecue sauce. Otherwise you're going to end
up with a burnt puck.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
That's me, that's me. I Yeah, that's exactly what happens
to me and I. Then I have to sit there
and scrub that dang pan over and over again, never
really getting to clean again.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yes, yes, put it on late.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Oh dude, you got to come back to this show
anytime in the future. I could talk barbecue with you.
Twenty four to seven.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Well, it's been a pleasure talking with you, and I
hope you find some good luck out there on the
barbecue trail.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Absolutely be brilliant today, okay, sir
Speaker 2 (24:34):
All right, you too,
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