August 14, 2025 • 8 mins
Investigation Discovery revisits one of the most sinister killers in recent history, Dean Corll, and features an in-depth interview with his accomplice, Elmer Wayne Henley Jr., marking the first time Henley has spoken about his crimes in over 50 years.Speak with Renowned Criminologist, Dr. Katherine Ramsland who dives into the mind and memory of Henley – and what motivated him to act as Corll’s accomplice in what was known as the largest mass murder in US history at the time.
Infamously known as “The Candyman Killer”, Dean Corll stalked the streets of Houston, Texas in the early to mid 1970s luring and brutally killing at least 28 young men. Corll operated largely undetectably for years due not only to his unassuming nature in the community, but largely because of the help he received by two young accomplices – Elmer Wayne Henley Jr. and David Brooks. However, in 1973, Henley fatally shot Corll and subsequently confessed to their crimes, leading authorities to Corll’s burial ground to recover the victims’ bodies. Decades later, Henley speaks now for the first time in 50 years with Dr. Ramsland, offering unprecedented and chilling insight into what led to his complicities in Corll’s crimes. Featuring conversations between Dr. Ramsland and Henley from the 60 hours they spoke, THE SERIAL KILLER’S APPRENTICE will offer a wholistic portrait of Henley, his psyche, and the tragedy that still lingers in Houston, Texas following Corll’s reign of terror. In addition to Dr. Ramsland bringing extensive experience to unpacking Henley’s accomplice and master dynamic with Corll, the docuseries will also offer access to expansive archival footage and insight from victim’s loved ones, local authorities, and journalists who are still unpacking the extent of Corll’s crimes decades later.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.
Infamously known as “The Candyman Killer”, Dean Corll stalked the streets of Houston, Texas in the early to mid 1970s luring and brutally killing at least 28 young men. Corll operated largely undetectably for years due not only to his unassuming nature in the community, but largely because of the help he received by two young accomplices – Elmer Wayne Henley Jr. and David Brooks. However, in 1973, Henley fatally shot Corll and subsequently confessed to their crimes, leading authorities to Corll’s burial ground to recover the victims’ bodies. Decades later, Henley speaks now for the first time in 50 years with Dr. Ramsland, offering unprecedented and chilling insight into what led to his complicities in Corll’s crimes. Featuring conversations between Dr. Ramsland and Henley from the 60 hours they spoke, THE SERIAL KILLER’S APPRENTICE will offer a wholistic portrait of Henley, his psyche, and the tragedy that still lingers in Houston, Texas following Corll’s reign of terror. In addition to Dr. Ramsland bringing extensive experience to unpacking Henley’s accomplice and master dynamic with Corll, the docuseries will also offer access to expansive archival footage and insight from victim’s loved ones, local authorities, and journalists who are still unpacking the extent of Corll’s crimes decades later.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, Ero, Hey, how are you doing today, Doctor?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm doing well. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
You have done something here that really it's almost like
the show future Shock. You have shocked us with a
different point of view and direction of one of the
most tragic crimes in this nation. And I can't help
but sit there and just think, how did you gain
the strength to be able to go to a different
direction and give us a different point of direction.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Well, I've been studying serial killers for over twenty five
years and this was a way in that was very unique,
had not really been studied much before. And Wayne Henley
was interested in participating in it with me as in
depth as he possibly could get.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
So that was another plus for this project.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
But to make that connection, that collaboration, that had to
have been a lot of meetings before the meetings, because
I mean, it didn't just happen, there's no way.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Well, my co author actually already knew him, so that helped.
He also looked at my credentials. He was primed to
want to tell his story as a way to prevent
this kind of thing in the future, so that he'd
be associated with at least something positive and not always
the negative from his you know, long ago past, so
(01:20):
he was ready for someone who could help him tell
his story in that way, and I was certainly willing
to do that.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
See, that's every bit the reason why I started off
seeing Future Shock, because there is the thing about it is, though,
is that there are so many accomplices to these crimes,
but we never hear the true story of them. It's
always the main one who did the crime.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I agree with you, and that's why I thought this
was a really important point of view, so that we
understand better the differences among types of accomplices, which I
do go into, but also how they deal with that, well,
how do they try to get out if they do,
how do they deal with it in the aftermath Because
they're not the predator, they're not the ones who want
(02:04):
to actually go in and kill. They're pulled into it
quite often, and then they have a lot of issues afterward.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
The reason why I'm so drawn to this is because
I have a friend whose son who was basically just
outscrewing around with his friends. They end up killing somebody
and he says still he was innocent, he didn't know
what was going to happen, And and you're sitting there
going the accomplice was there. That is a serious position
that he put himself into.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yes, and that's why we need to understand, especially parents
and counselors and teachers who deal with adolescents, need to
know what some of these signals are when a kid
is in trouble.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
The Candy Man Killer Houston, Texas, Oh my god, and
the way that everything would play out, It's just this
is more than just true crime.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
It is and he's the only accomplice to have killed
the killer to end it, and that's I think pretty important.
And he also led police to the bodies. Had he
not done that, they would have never found them. So
I think that in some ways, although he's got a
pretty bad reputation, he needs to be recognized for doing
something like that.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Was it a bucket list thing that, you know, I've
got to get this story out there. Or is it
his way of discovering himself and he needs to find
forgiveness from something or someone.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
He is full of remorse, he's horrified at what he did.
I don't know that it was a bucket list. I
think he hoped one day he'd be able to use
his story for good and it just seemed to all
work together where I was willing to because I have
the psychological credentials to help him explore it and to
(03:50):
guide him safely back into it in a way that
would would find the things that we need to be
able to tell people warning.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Signs, please do not move. There's more with doctor Catherine
Ramslin coming up next, The Serial Killers Apprentice on Investigative Discovery.
Let's get back to our talk with doctor Catherine. Let
me ask you this question, doctor, when somebody brings out
a story that's been trapped inside their mind, body and
soul for so long, do they get therapy after they've
(04:21):
sat down with you? Because I mean, when you let
something go. I mean that's like you know, in your heart,
when the plaque breaks off, that's how you get a
heart attack.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
I did a lot of counseling, for sure.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
He had nightmares when he was bringing this step back
up some PTSD. We spend a lot of time behind
the scenes, is so to speak, working on getting him
through this.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
What did you learn because you had to have gone
into this as a student too. I mean, we can
all be professionals at what we do, but in order
to ask the right questions at the right time, you
had to have been a student.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I was.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I'm always a students. That's the part I like best.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
And I learned a lot about the way the predator
manages not just their partners and pray, but the whole community.
Because Dean Coral was able to convince people he was
this great big brother type. Nobody believed he could have
been doing this, despite the fact that there were a
number of signals that he was involved with these missing boys.
(05:26):
And so for me, it was really trying to understand
how the predator plays a long game and looks at
all the different people he needs to persuade of his
normalcy before he even makes a move. That was probably
one of the biggest lessons I learned.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
See, this is one of the reasons why I get
a little freaky when I see people who are people
watching and they're sitting there very patiently. I'm sitting there, going,
you're up to something because everybody else is moving and
you are not. What is going on inside that mind?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, that it could be, or they could be being
very careful and making sure that they are aware of
their surroundings. That's what I do, so I'm always watching
for what's going on with people.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
And where can I move to where it's safe.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
How does David Brooks play into this story, Well.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
David Brooks was the first accomplice. He came into it
as a kid from a broken home where both of
his parents really wanted very little to do with him.
And so Coral was there, respected him, gave him a
place to stay, gave him a car, gave him money,
and so he was highly vulnerable to someone like Coral
(06:35):
who knew exactly how to play him. Once he was
under Coral's influence, he agreed to do some of these
things because you know, Hollis, he was a dropout, he
didn't have a job, and here he was getting all
kinds of benefits from being associated with Coral, so he
could overlook what Kral was doing to these kids.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
So basically he was being accepted. So therefore he felt
like he was a part of Therefore, I'm going to
do whatever I can so I can keep feeling.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
This not just accepted respective because he was the brunt
of bullying. He was a geeky kid and Coral treated
him well.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Did you ever bring up the question of, you know,
why is it that Dean Coral didn't kill these guys
I mean because I mean it's like why the men
that did lose their lives, but he kept the accomplices.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
He they thought he would eventually kill them to shut
them up because they knew too much. In fact, the
day Henley shot Coral, they were about to go on
a trip that Henley really believed was going to be
his last days on earth.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
From this point forward, what do we need to do
as a society. I know we talked you mental health
is a very important thing, but we and you also
talked about awareness. But as a community, it seems like
once it's off TV or off the front page, while
we're back to a different thing.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah, we are, and we aren't recognizing the importance of
the victim's stories in these trafficking situations, and we're not
listening to them and the trauma that they're going through,
and we're not giving them any really much support.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And I think we need to do that.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I think we need to listen, recognize the complexity of
what has happened to them, and find ways to give
them therapy. Like Wayne had no therapy of any kind
for the fifty years in prison. It really was me
coming in that helped him through a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Well, you've got to come back to the show anytime
in the future. The door is always going to be
open for you. Doctor.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
You'd be brilliant today.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Okay, all right you too.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Thank you.
Hello, Ero, Hey, how are you doing today, Doctor?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm doing well. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
You have done something here that really it's almost like
the show future Shock. You have shocked us with a
different point of view and direction of one of the
most tragic crimes in this nation. And I can't help
but sit there and just think, how did you gain
the strength to be able to go to a different
direction and give us a different point of direction.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Well, I've been studying serial killers for over twenty five
years and this was a way in that was very unique,
had not really been studied much before. And Wayne Henley
was interested in participating in it with me as in
depth as he possibly could get.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
So that was another plus for this project.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
But to make that connection, that collaboration, that had to
have been a lot of meetings before the meetings, because
I mean, it didn't just happen, there's no way.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Well, my co author actually already knew him, so that helped.
He also looked at my credentials. He was primed to
want to tell his story as a way to prevent
this kind of thing in the future, so that he'd
be associated with at least something positive and not always
the negative from his you know, long ago past, so
(01:20):
he was ready for someone who could help him tell
his story in that way, and I was certainly willing
to do that.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
See, that's every bit the reason why I started off
seeing Future Shock, because there is the thing about it is, though,
is that there are so many accomplices to these crimes,
but we never hear the true story of them. It's
always the main one who did the crime.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I agree with you, and that's why I thought this
was a really important point of view, so that we
understand better the differences among types of accomplices, which I
do go into, but also how they deal with that, well,
how do they try to get out if they do,
how do they deal with it in the aftermath Because
they're not the predator, they're not the ones who want
(02:04):
to actually go in and kill. They're pulled into it
quite often, and then they have a lot of issues afterward.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
The reason why I'm so drawn to this is because
I have a friend whose son who was basically just
outscrewing around with his friends. They end up killing somebody
and he says still he was innocent, he didn't know
what was going to happen, And and you're sitting there
going the accomplice was there. That is a serious position
that he put himself into.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yes, and that's why we need to understand, especially parents
and counselors and teachers who deal with adolescents, need to
know what some of these signals are when a kid
is in trouble.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
The Candy Man Killer Houston, Texas, Oh my god, and
the way that everything would play out, It's just this
is more than just true crime.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
It is and he's the only accomplice to have killed
the killer to end it, and that's I think pretty important.
And he also led police to the bodies. Had he
not done that, they would have never found them. So
I think that in some ways, although he's got a
pretty bad reputation, he needs to be recognized for doing
something like that.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Was it a bucket list thing that, you know, I've
got to get this story out there. Or is it
his way of discovering himself and he needs to find
forgiveness from something or someone.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
He is full of remorse, he's horrified at what he did.
I don't know that it was a bucket list. I
think he hoped one day he'd be able to use
his story for good and it just seemed to all
work together where I was willing to because I have
the psychological credentials to help him explore it and to
(03:50):
guide him safely back into it in a way that
would would find the things that we need to be
able to tell people warning.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Signs, please do not move. There's more with doctor Catherine
Ramslin coming up next, The Serial Killers Apprentice on Investigative Discovery.
Let's get back to our talk with doctor Catherine. Let
me ask you this question, doctor, when somebody brings out
a story that's been trapped inside their mind, body and
soul for so long, do they get therapy after they've
(04:21):
sat down with you? Because I mean, when you let
something go. I mean that's like you know, in your heart,
when the plaque breaks off, that's how you get a
heart attack.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
I did a lot of counseling, for sure.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
He had nightmares when he was bringing this step back
up some PTSD. We spend a lot of time behind
the scenes, is so to speak, working on getting him
through this.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
What did you learn because you had to have gone
into this as a student too. I mean, we can
all be professionals at what we do, but in order
to ask the right questions at the right time, you
had to have been a student.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I was.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I'm always a students. That's the part I like best.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
And I learned a lot about the way the predator
manages not just their partners and pray, but the whole community.
Because Dean Coral was able to convince people he was
this great big brother type. Nobody believed he could have
been doing this, despite the fact that there were a
number of signals that he was involved with these missing boys.
(05:26):
And so for me, it was really trying to understand
how the predator plays a long game and looks at
all the different people he needs to persuade of his
normalcy before he even makes a move. That was probably
one of the biggest lessons I learned.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
See, this is one of the reasons why I get
a little freaky when I see people who are people
watching and they're sitting there very patiently. I'm sitting there, going,
you're up to something because everybody else is moving and
you are not. What is going on inside that mind?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, that it could be, or they could be being
very careful and making sure that they are aware of
their surroundings. That's what I do, so I'm always watching
for what's going on with people.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
And where can I move to where it's safe.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
How does David Brooks play into this story, Well.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
David Brooks was the first accomplice. He came into it
as a kid from a broken home where both of
his parents really wanted very little to do with him.
And so Coral was there, respected him, gave him a
place to stay, gave him a car, gave him money,
and so he was highly vulnerable to someone like Coral
(06:35):
who knew exactly how to play him. Once he was
under Coral's influence, he agreed to do some of these
things because you know, Hollis, he was a dropout, he
didn't have a job, and here he was getting all
kinds of benefits from being associated with Coral, so he
could overlook what Kral was doing to these kids.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
So basically he was being accepted. So therefore he felt
like he was a part of Therefore, I'm going to
do whatever I can so I can keep feeling.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
This not just accepted respective because he was the brunt
of bullying. He was a geeky kid and Coral treated
him well.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Did you ever bring up the question of, you know,
why is it that Dean Coral didn't kill these guys
I mean because I mean it's like why the men
that did lose their lives, but he kept the accomplices.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
He they thought he would eventually kill them to shut
them up because they knew too much. In fact, the
day Henley shot Coral, they were about to go on
a trip that Henley really believed was going to be
his last days on earth.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
From this point forward, what do we need to do
as a society. I know we talked you mental health
is a very important thing, but we and you also
talked about awareness. But as a community, it seems like
once it's off TV or off the front page, while
we're back to a different thing.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah, we are, and we aren't recognizing the importance of
the victim's stories in these trafficking situations, and we're not
listening to them and the trauma that they're going through,
and we're not giving them any really much support.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And I think we need to do that.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I think we need to listen, recognize the complexity of
what has happened to them, and find ways to give
them therapy. Like Wayne had no therapy of any kind
for the fifty years in prison. It really was me
coming in that helped him through a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Well, you've got to come back to the show anytime
in the future. The door is always going to be
open for you. Doctor.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
You'd be brilliant today.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Okay, all right you too.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Thank you.
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