Pod Crashing episode 373 with Jenn Swan from the podcast My Friend Daisy. After 19-year-old Daisy De La O was murdered outside her Compton apartment, her friends and family looked to authorities to make an arrest. When that didn't happen, they took matters into their own hands. Their secret weapon? TikTok. The online videos spawned an international manhunt, rallying amateur detectives to do something radical: Help catch a killer. From London Audio, iHeart Radio, and executive producer Paris Hilton, My Friend Daisy is a ten-part investigative series written and hosted by L.A. journalist Jenn Swann. Each episode dives deep into the murder investigation and its fallout, exposing what went wrong, how it went viral, and why American communities are turning to social media to find justice. Episodes available here: Https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1248-my-friend-daisy-270223430/
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, thanks for being a part of the conversation. Let's
do some pod crashing. Episode number three seventy three is
with Jen Swan from the podcast My Friend Daisy.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good morning, I'm doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
How are you fantastic? What an amazing podcast in so
many different ways. I mean, the writing, the way that
you bring this together. I really do. I love listening
to podcasts while I'm driving, So therefore, I mean, you
keep me on the edge of my seat all the
way through this, and I'm trying to figure it out,
and I need to relax and let you tell the
story and not me try to write it.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Well. I mean, this is a story that's been really
close to me for a while. I've been I've been
working on it, I would say the past like three years, basically.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Since since it happened.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
There was a murder that occurred in twenty twenty one
of a young nineteen year old woman named.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Daz d lo O.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
And you know, this story was a story that went
viral on TikTok because her friends felt like it was
not getting the attention that it deserved. It was not
being covered in the media, getting resources from the city
or the county. And this was in Compton, in the
County of Bala, and you know, detectives kind of stalled
on the case for months, even though it was very
(01:11):
very clear to everyone who knew Daisy that there was
only one person who could have done this. So I
remember hearing about this story when it happened, and began
talking to Daisy's mother and her friends, and then this
podcast has really been a chance to kind of expand
that and talk to people who saw these social media
posts and interacted with them and say, like, what happened here?
(01:33):
You know, like why why did this investigation stall? Why
did everyone feel like they needed to do it themselves?
What is the impact of that. I got to talk
to prosecutors, I got to talk to even the you'll
see in the first podcast, but you know, the person
who was put on blast in these social media posts
as the person who was the killer.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I ended up speaking with him.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And so it was really the past year was like,
you know, I didn't think I could go any deeper
into the store, but it was really amazing to connect
with people in her community and talk about how this
had you. So not only people who knew Daisy, but
then people who just heard her story through these social
media posts.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
To get through those doors. Were you knocking on the
doors or were they just kind of partially open and
you just walked on through saying, hey, hey, hey, I'm
jin let's talk.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
You know, I think it was a it was a
combination of that. For there was, for sure a lot
of door knocking, and that is something that I don't
typically do, and so that was a new thing for
me of like, I got to talk to these people.
I need to find out what happened. I just have
to show up. And I think it can be really uncomfortable,
but also it can be you know, it can yield
(02:44):
these amazing conversations. Like there were definitely times where, you know,
so Daisy was killed, unfortunately right outside of her apartment
where she.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Lived with her family.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
And that was another thing, which just like why was
it so hard to solve this case where you know,
she she was killed on her property. There were so
many clues, and so you know, I ended up just
going to her apartment complex and showing up and I
got to you know, I didn't know necessarily who the
apartment manager was, but I ended up knocking on doors
and people directed me. I ended up talking to her
(03:14):
grandfather talking to people in the building just by kind
of showing up and saying hello and saying, I'm working
on the story and I really want to find out
what happened. And so that was and you know, it
wasn't always you know, people didn't always greet me with
open arms. It's obviously a sensitive, traumatic thing that has happened.
And so I knocked on where people did not want
(03:36):
anything to do with it, and that was okay too.
But I think just going and being able to see
people's faces in person and let them know that I
was a real person also, you know, interested in their story,
it was really powerful. You know.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
One of the things that really scared me big time
in this podcast, and you make it so real, is
that she was with her family, her grandfather. Everything was upbeat.
I'm going to be right back in just a few minutes.
We have all been there. They thing is is that
most of us have come back. She did not, and
that that just scared the hell out of me when
that happened, because it's one of those moments you don't
(04:08):
know when something's going to go wrong.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yeah, totally, It's terrifying, and you know, you you hear,
I think there's something that happens maybe in the brain
where where in moments like this that really lodge into
your brain, like you know, you remember everything that happened
really clearly up until then, and everything feels different. That night,
and so her you know, she was hanging out with
her grandfather and her mother and you know, they were
(04:32):
all hanging out in the living room just well, I mean,
it sounds it sounds really ordinary, but it was unusual
for them all to just kind of hang out and
be together and everyone get along. Everyone was in a
good mood. And then Daisy got this text message. It
was from someone that she knew, you know, saying I'll
you know, I have something for you, and she was like,
I'll be right back. She left her phone, she left
(04:52):
her wallet in the house, never came back, and you know,
her family didn't know that anything was wrong. They went
to bed. They figured she was out hanging out with
someone that she knew. I don't want to give away
yet who that person was, but you know, it's something
like that, yeah, where it really makes you realize every
moment it's like you can't take for granted because you
never know what might happen.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
It is scary, it's so you know, and she was
starting a new job. Life was upbeat. I mean, it
was the typical American story of hey, I feel great
about life and then then there wasn't any life.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that was the other thing too,
is as I got to know more about Daisy and this,
she was really at this kind of juncture in her
life where she had struggled a bit in high school,
you know, yeah, her you know, she her mom wasn't
sure whether she was going to even graduate high school
or be able to walk, and something happened where she
really sort of she was shown some tough love and
(05:45):
she turned herself around, and she was really kind of
on the up and up. She was trying to make
a life for herself outside of Compton, outside of these
really tough circumstances that she grew up in. And so, yeah,
she had gotten a job, she had new friends, she
was going to college letely on her own, and so
there were so many things that she really had to
look forward to and that she you know, everyone was
so proud of her. And that's part of also what
(06:08):
makes this story so so tragic is that she never
got to.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Do those things that she was laying the groundwork for.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I've been to Compton. You've got to be tough, and
you've got to be big hearted. You've got to have
compassion for your community because they'll recognize you in a
heartbeat and make you a marker.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah, totally. It's it's you know, it's a different world.
It's you know, I live on the east side of
la and Compton is not far from me, but it,
you know, it does. It feels very different in everyone
that I talked to, you know, at Daisy's apartment complex,
even her apartment manager was like, you got to go
after you know, when it gets dark, you need to
be out of here. Like it's just people. You know,
(06:44):
people are really kind of on guard right, like they're
closing up going, you know, going to their apartments, and
you you kind of don't mess with it, you know,
mess with people, and so, you know, she I think
it's one of these stories too though, where it's like
she wasn't killed by a race, un dumb person on
the street.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
She was killed by someone she knew.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
And unfortunately that's how it so often happens, especially with women,
you know, And so I think it was one of
these it was also another one of these instances where
her family and her friends were like, this is very
obvious to us, you know, like, this is not a
random crime. Why is it taking so long to arrest
this person that we know did it?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
You know what's so interesting about this? And I you know,
I think when people really jump onto this podcast and
listen to it, they're going to go TikTok helped out
with this, you mean, that thing that everybody wants to
get rid of, TikTok. It can be used as a
positive tool, and this is proof of it.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, I mean that was so remarkable.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
That was one of the things that really drew me
to this story was the fact that you know, these
teen girls, Daisy's friends, they were like nineteen year olds,
They're all.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
On TikTok and they made this this video that really
stuck with me.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
That kind of just introduced who Daisy was. And literally
the name of the podcast is from one of those
tiktoks that said, you know, this is my friend Daisy,
and it told the story of you know, here's who
she was, here's what happened the night she was murdered,
and the person who did it is still running free,
Like we need to help find him, and so I think,
you know, I also talk to other people who had
(08:09):
turned to TikTok to try to get closure for murder
cases and to find missing people, and I think that
a lot of families. I mean, it's a you know,
it's not a perfect solution. It can be risky, it
can be dangerous, it can open up people to harassment
and victim blaming. But I think, you know, for a
lot of people, it is like this last resort. It's
this desperate measure where they feel like we're not getting
(08:31):
justice from the traditional establishment system.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
We need to take matters in their own hands.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
And I think that can be very it can be
a very powerful tool for people because of how quickly these.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Images can spread. You know. I think one of the
one of the true crime.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
TikTokers that I talked to, who actually had a sister
who was murdered. She used TikTok to try to get
charges against the person who did it, who turned out
to be her stepfather. And she said something, it was
a wild story, yeah, And she said something like, you know,
TikTok is like this. It's a slot machine, you know,
and you can put a bunch of stuff out there,
and one thing you put out there might go crazy,
(09:08):
and it might go like wild and just reach millions
of people, and you just never know. So I think
a lot of people are willing to take that chance
if they feel like this is my only shot at
maybe getting justice.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Hey, coming up next, we've got more with Jen Swan.
Thanks for coming back to my conversation with Jen Swan
from the podcast my friend Daisy as the writer and
the narrator of the story. One of the things that
I'm very proud of you on is that you didn't
go into it and just put everything on profiling and
I mean, you really do jump into the physical, authentic
story of Daisy. And I think that's the reason why
(09:41):
I can't break away from this and I'm trying to
figure it out, but it's because it's too easy to say, well,
it's because we're profiling her.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
M Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
I mean, I think it's so important, especially in these
stories that you end up seeing, you know, on the
news where I mean, for example, I think with this story,
when when Daisy was killed, there was really no coverage
of it. There was one story that came out in
the Only Times that was just kind of a crime
report that actually referred to as to her as a
Jane Doe because no one knew who she was at first.
(10:11):
And that was the other heartbreaking thing was that like
she she lived in that building, she lived in Compton,
Like she had a whole life that people didn't know about.
And so once people learned who she was on TikTok
and on Instagram, they were they you know, that really
motivated her. That really motivated people who saw these posts
to try to find the person who did it. And
so it was really important for me to to delve
(10:33):
into her story and to let people know like she
was a person, she had all this stuff going for her,
She had overcome so much, you know, she had been
through a lot of hardship and come out the other side.
Like she wasn't just you know, a Jane Doe in Compton,
you know, like she this was not a random crime.
And so yeah, I really wanted to show what unique
(10:54):
and caring and like she's a full person, you know,
she was not just a crime victim.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yeah, the cops thought it was a body dump right
in the very beginning, and they said what yeah, I
mean that kind of shocked me. When you brought that
in there because I'm going I never even thought about that,
And I think it's because the way you set up
the story that we're building this relationship up. Okay, we're
understanding what's going on, and then all of a sudden
body dump.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yeah it was I mean yeah, to hear some of
those details and to hear the way that detectives were
thinking about this case was pretty devastating because I think,
you know, especially in the place where Daisy's body was
found in Compton, they you know, I think from their
point of view, they're like, well, we've seen cases like
this before, and you know, there's a history of there
was a famous serial killer like ten fifteen years ago
(11:39):
who had been doing these body dumps, which is basically
where you uh, someone is killed and then their body
is taken to a different location. And so there was
a serial killer who that was kind of like his
signature move, and so I think the detectives were kind
of jaded and kind of just thinking like, well, she's
probably you know, a sex worker or someone who got
mixed up in the wrong crowd, and they just put
her body here, not knowing that like she lived there.
(12:01):
You know that that was the thing that was like,
I feel like it took them a while to figure
that out. And that was another really I think frustrating
aspect of it.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Locating the killer. I mean we're talking about a different
country here, I mean it. I mean, so how do
you get inside that story?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Yeah, you know, it was a combination of talking to
lots of different people. I mean, it was interesting because
I interviewed a lot of people in Daisy's community, in
Compton and in South la and a lot of people
thought that they saw the killer. He had a very
sort of distinct look and you'll know what that means
if you've been listening to the show, and so a
(12:39):
lot of people, you know, they would see this skateboarder
dressed in black and they would kind of think like,
maybe that's him.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And so it really, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
It terrified a lot of people who saw these posts
and were like, what if there's a you know, there
was a killer on the loose.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
We don't know where he is, and.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
So as I you know, I also talked to the
detectives and they they were you know, trying to get
some information about like what we think he may have
gone south, He may have gone to Mexico.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
That was a whole other aspect of the story.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
And then I ended up, you know, actually sort of
retracing those footsteps and trying to figure out how that
actually came together. And so that was another sort of
surprise for me, was like going down to Mexico and
talking to people there and saying like, wow.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
What was what was he like? You know, like how
did this happen?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
It was such a it was you know, when you
when you keep listening, you'll find out that the place
where this person was actually caught was very surprising. It
was not the typical place where a lot of people
fought he may have been hiding, and so that was
another thing where it was like, wow, like this this
has been a journey and he was hiding in plain sight.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
You know, you do this so well. I mean in
a different life, were you a detective at one time?
I mean, or your next life is going to be
a detective? I mean, I mean you do this so well.
You break it down, break it down, break it down,
and then you find the rocks on the path.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, you know, I mean I think sometimes there's there's
definitely a bit of crossover between detective work and journalism,
and I think, like, yeah, I was just I was
just interested in every aspect of it. I was like,
we gotta you know, because the detectives have their narrative,
and they obviously have their reputation to protect, and they
had kind of a defensive stance about this case and
(14:19):
about what they were doing. And then meanwhile, you know,
it's also a story about these sort of like amateur
detectives who are also trying to put these clues.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Together and you know, ask people, have you seen this guy?
Are you hiding him?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
And so for me, yeah, it was like also going
into this scene and putting on my own detective hat
and being like, okay, well we have these two different narratives.
We have the actual detectives, we have the amateur detectives,
and like where do I like, what are the other
questions that I have that haven't been solved by either
group of people. So for me, it was really just
kind of trying to close the loop of all of
this of like, you know, what is the full complete
(14:53):
story here? And that that was really that's something that
I really really enjoy. You know.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
What was really interes seen is that when you first
started talking about the amateur detectives on the podcast I
because I am a pod podcaster and I do believe
in social media. I sat there and I thought, I
don't see them as amateurs. I see them as being
influencers and people who who know how to play the
game of social media. And a lot of those detectives
don't know their game. So I kept thinking, did you
(15:20):
really need to use that word amateur because they're not amateurs?
Are pros on that social media really right?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
And the interesting thing, you know days, I mean, I
don't think that they call themselves influencers, but I think
it's just a matter of them having been nineteen and
having grown up on social media and understanding how the
algorithm works, understanding how to tell a story that visually
and with music and with text, and so I think
just have this like incredible telling industory is about the
(15:48):
fact that you know, they were empowered to do this thing.
They had agency, and they had these tools at their
disposal that say, the detectives did not have, and so
and so when I say amateur detectives, it's not necessarily
describing them as amateur. I think they were incredibly strategic
and incredibly skilled at what they did. There was a
lot of precision to it, but you know, it's just
the fact that there they were team girls. You know,
(16:10):
this shouldn't have been their job, it shouldn't have been
their responsibility to try to solve their friend's murder, and
yet they did it and that was what was really incredible.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
So halfs off to them.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Absolutely, where can people go to find out more about you? Jin?
And I know that the National Domestic Violence Hotline. You
give those guys a big plug which is so special
from your heart.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yes, absolutely absolutely we wanted to connect people with re
I mean part of this podcast too is being able
to connect people with resources to tell story, tell stories
of domestic violence and of people who were able to
get the help that they need. And you can also
follow me on substancewan dot substack dot com. Yeah, I
hope you listen. It's a really really incredible.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
You please come back to the future. The door is always
going to be open for you.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Thank you so much, Errow, this was great.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Will you be brilliant today?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Okay, thank you he as well
Hey, thanks for being a part of the conversation. Let's
do some pod crashing. Episode number three seventy three is
with Jen Swan from the podcast My Friend Daisy.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good morning, I'm doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
How are you fantastic? What an amazing podcast in so
many different ways. I mean, the writing, the way that
you bring this together. I really do. I love listening
to podcasts while I'm driving, So therefore, I mean, you
keep me on the edge of my seat all the
way through this, and I'm trying to figure it out,
and I need to relax and let you tell the
story and not me try to write it.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Well. I mean, this is a story that's been really
close to me for a while. I've been I've been
working on it, I would say the past like three years, basically.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Since since it happened.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
There was a murder that occurred in twenty twenty one
of a young nineteen year old woman named.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Daz d lo O.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
And you know, this story was a story that went
viral on TikTok because her friends felt like it was
not getting the attention that it deserved. It was not
being covered in the media, getting resources from the city
or the county. And this was in Compton, in the
County of Bala, and you know, detectives kind of stalled
on the case for months, even though it was very
(01:11):
very clear to everyone who knew Daisy that there was
only one person who could have done this. So I
remember hearing about this story when it happened, and began
talking to Daisy's mother and her friends, and then this
podcast has really been a chance to kind of expand
that and talk to people who saw these social media
posts and interacted with them and say, like, what happened here?
(01:33):
You know, like why why did this investigation stall? Why
did everyone feel like they needed to do it themselves?
What is the impact of that. I got to talk
to prosecutors, I got to talk to even the you'll
see in the first podcast, but you know, the person
who was put on blast in these social media posts
as the person who was the killer.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I ended up speaking with him.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And so it was really the past year was like,
you know, I didn't think I could go any deeper
into the store, but it was really amazing to connect
with people in her community and talk about how this
had you. So not only people who knew Daisy, but
then people who just heard her story through these social
media posts.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
To get through those doors. Were you knocking on the
doors or were they just kind of partially open and
you just walked on through saying, hey, hey, hey, I'm
jin let's talk.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
You know, I think it was a it was a
combination of that. For there was, for sure a lot
of door knocking, and that is something that I don't
typically do, and so that was a new thing for
me of like, I got to talk to these people.
I need to find out what happened. I just have
to show up. And I think it can be really uncomfortable,
but also it can be you know, it can yield
(02:44):
these amazing conversations. Like there were definitely times where, you know,
so Daisy was killed, unfortunately right outside of her apartment
where she.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Lived with her family.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
And that was another thing, which just like why was
it so hard to solve this case where you know,
she she was killed on her property. There were so
many clues, and so you know, I ended up just
going to her apartment complex and showing up and I
got to you know, I didn't know necessarily who the
apartment manager was, but I ended up knocking on doors
and people directed me. I ended up talking to her
(03:14):
grandfather talking to people in the building just by kind
of showing up and saying hello and saying, I'm working
on the story and I really want to find out
what happened. And so that was and you know, it
wasn't always you know, people didn't always greet me with
open arms. It's obviously a sensitive, traumatic thing that has happened.
And so I knocked on where people did not want
(03:36):
anything to do with it, and that was okay too.
But I think just going and being able to see
people's faces in person and let them know that I
was a real person also, you know, interested in their story,
it was really powerful. You know.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
One of the things that really scared me big time
in this podcast, and you make it so real, is
that she was with her family, her grandfather. Everything was upbeat.
I'm going to be right back in just a few minutes.
We have all been there. They thing is is that
most of us have come back. She did not, and
that that just scared the hell out of me when
that happened, because it's one of those moments you don't
(04:08):
know when something's going to go wrong.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yeah, totally, It's terrifying, and you know, you you hear,
I think there's something that happens maybe in the brain
where where in moments like this that really lodge into
your brain, like you know, you remember everything that happened
really clearly up until then, and everything feels different. That night,
and so her you know, she was hanging out with
her grandfather and her mother and you know, they were
(04:32):
all hanging out in the living room just well, I mean,
it sounds it sounds really ordinary, but it was unusual
for them all to just kind of hang out and
be together and everyone get along. Everyone was in a
good mood. And then Daisy got this text message. It
was from someone that she knew, you know, saying I'll
you know, I have something for you, and she was like,
I'll be right back. She left her phone, she left
(04:52):
her wallet in the house, never came back, and you know,
her family didn't know that anything was wrong. They went
to bed. They figured she was out hanging out with
someone that she knew. I don't want to give away
yet who that person was, but you know, it's something
like that, yeah, where it really makes you realize every
moment it's like you can't take for granted because you
never know what might happen.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
It is scary, it's so you know, and she was
starting a new job. Life was upbeat. I mean, it
was the typical American story of hey, I feel great
about life and then then there wasn't any life.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that was the other thing too,
is as I got to know more about Daisy and this,
she was really at this kind of juncture in her
life where she had struggled a bit in high school,
you know, yeah, her you know, she her mom wasn't
sure whether she was going to even graduate high school
or be able to walk, and something happened where she
really sort of she was shown some tough love and
(05:45):
she turned herself around, and she was really kind of
on the up and up. She was trying to make
a life for herself outside of Compton, outside of these
really tough circumstances that she grew up in. And so, yeah,
she had gotten a job, she had new friends, she
was going to college letely on her own, and so
there were so many things that she really had to
look forward to and that she you know, everyone was
so proud of her. And that's part of also what
(06:08):
makes this story so so tragic is that she never
got to.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Do those things that she was laying the groundwork for.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I've been to Compton. You've got to be tough, and
you've got to be big hearted. You've got to have
compassion for your community because they'll recognize you in a
heartbeat and make you a marker.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah, totally. It's it's you know, it's a different world.
It's you know, I live on the east side of
la and Compton is not far from me, but it,
you know, it does. It feels very different in everyone
that I talked to, you know, at Daisy's apartment complex,
even her apartment manager was like, you got to go
after you know, when it gets dark, you need to
be out of here. Like it's just people. You know,
(06:44):
people are really kind of on guard right, like they're
closing up going, you know, going to their apartments, and
you you kind of don't mess with it, you know,
mess with people, and so, you know, she I think
it's one of these stories too though, where it's like
she wasn't killed by a race, un dumb person on
the street.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
She was killed by someone she knew.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
And unfortunately that's how it so often happens, especially with women,
you know, And so I think it was one of
these it was also another one of these instances where
her family and her friends were like, this is very
obvious to us, you know, like, this is not a
random crime. Why is it taking so long to arrest
this person that we know did it?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
You know what's so interesting about this? And I you know,
I think when people really jump onto this podcast and
listen to it, they're going to go TikTok helped out
with this, you mean, that thing that everybody wants to
get rid of, TikTok. It can be used as a
positive tool, and this is proof of it.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, I mean that was so remarkable.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
That was one of the things that really drew me
to this story was the fact that you know, these
teen girls, Daisy's friends, they were like nineteen year olds,
They're all.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
On TikTok and they made this this video that really
stuck with me.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
That kind of just introduced who Daisy was. And literally
the name of the podcast is from one of those
tiktoks that said, you know, this is my friend Daisy,
and it told the story of you know, here's who
she was, here's what happened the night she was murdered,
and the person who did it is still running free,
Like we need to help find him, and so I think,
you know, I also talk to other people who had
(08:09):
turned to TikTok to try to get closure for murder
cases and to find missing people, and I think that
a lot of families. I mean, it's a you know,
it's not a perfect solution. It can be risky, it
can be dangerous, it can open up people to harassment
and victim blaming. But I think, you know, for a
lot of people, it is like this last resort. It's
this desperate measure where they feel like we're not getting
(08:31):
justice from the traditional establishment system.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
We need to take matters in their own hands.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
And I think that can be very it can be
a very powerful tool for people because of how quickly these.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Images can spread. You know. I think one of the
one of the true crime.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
TikTokers that I talked to, who actually had a sister
who was murdered. She used TikTok to try to get
charges against the person who did it, who turned out
to be her stepfather. And she said something, it was
a wild story, yeah, And she said something like, you know,
TikTok is like this. It's a slot machine, you know,
and you can put a bunch of stuff out there,
and one thing you put out there might go crazy,
(09:08):
and it might go like wild and just reach millions
of people, and you just never know. So I think
a lot of people are willing to take that chance
if they feel like this is my only shot at
maybe getting justice.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Hey, coming up next, we've got more with Jen Swan.
Thanks for coming back to my conversation with Jen Swan
from the podcast my friend Daisy as the writer and
the narrator of the story. One of the things that
I'm very proud of you on is that you didn't
go into it and just put everything on profiling and
I mean, you really do jump into the physical, authentic
story of Daisy. And I think that's the reason why
(09:41):
I can't break away from this and I'm trying to
figure it out, but it's because it's too easy to say, well,
it's because we're profiling her.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
M Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
I mean, I think it's so important, especially in these
stories that you end up seeing, you know, on the
news where I mean, for example, I think with this story,
when when Daisy was killed, there was really no coverage
of it. There was one story that came out in
the Only Times that was just kind of a crime
report that actually referred to as to her as a
Jane Doe because no one knew who she was at first.
(10:11):
And that was the other heartbreaking thing was that like
she she lived in that building, she lived in Compton,
Like she had a whole life that people didn't know about.
And so once people learned who she was on TikTok
and on Instagram, they were they you know, that really
motivated her. That really motivated people who saw these posts
to try to find the person who did it. And
so it was really important for me to to delve
(10:33):
into her story and to let people know like she
was a person, she had all this stuff going for her,
She had overcome so much, you know, she had been
through a lot of hardship and come out the other side.
Like she wasn't just you know, a Jane Doe in Compton,
you know, like she this was not a random crime.
And so yeah, I really wanted to show what unique
(10:54):
and caring and like she's a full person, you know,
she was not just a crime victim.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yeah, the cops thought it was a body dump right
in the very beginning, and they said what yeah, I
mean that kind of shocked me. When you brought that
in there because I'm going I never even thought about that,
And I think it's because the way you set up
the story that we're building this relationship up. Okay, we're
understanding what's going on, and then all of a sudden
body dump.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yeah it was I mean yeah, to hear some of
those details and to hear the way that detectives were
thinking about this case was pretty devastating because I think,
you know, especially in the place where Daisy's body was
found in Compton, they you know, I think from their
point of view, they're like, well, we've seen cases like
this before, and you know, there's a history of there
was a famous serial killer like ten fifteen years ago
(11:39):
who had been doing these body dumps, which is basically
where you uh, someone is killed and then their body
is taken to a different location. And so there was
a serial killer who that was kind of like his
signature move, and so I think the detectives were kind
of jaded and kind of just thinking like, well, she's
probably you know, a sex worker or someone who got
mixed up in the wrong crowd, and they just put
her body here, not knowing that like she lived there.
(12:01):
You know that that was the thing that was like,
I feel like it took them a while to figure
that out. And that was another really I think frustrating
aspect of it.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Locating the killer. I mean we're talking about a different
country here, I mean it. I mean, so how do
you get inside that story?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Yeah, you know, it was a combination of talking to
lots of different people. I mean, it was interesting because
I interviewed a lot of people in Daisy's community, in
Compton and in South la and a lot of people
thought that they saw the killer. He had a very
sort of distinct look and you'll know what that means
if you've been listening to the show, and so a
(12:39):
lot of people, you know, they would see this skateboarder
dressed in black and they would kind of think like,
maybe that's him.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And so it really, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
It terrified a lot of people who saw these posts
and were like, what if there's a you know, there
was a killer on the loose.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
We don't know where he is, and.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
So as I you know, I also talked to the
detectives and they they were you know, trying to get
some information about like what we think he may have
gone south, He may have gone to Mexico.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
That was a whole other aspect of the story.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
And then I ended up, you know, actually sort of
retracing those footsteps and trying to figure out how that
actually came together. And so that was another sort of
surprise for me, was like going down to Mexico and
talking to people there and saying like, wow.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
What was what was he like? You know, like how
did this happen?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
It was such a it was you know, when you
when you keep listening, you'll find out that the place
where this person was actually caught was very surprising. It
was not the typical place where a lot of people
fought he may have been hiding, and so that was
another thing where it was like, wow, like this this
has been a journey and he was hiding in plain sight.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
You know, you do this so well. I mean in
a different life, were you a detective at one time?
I mean, or your next life is going to be
a detective? I mean, I mean you do this so well.
You break it down, break it down, break it down,
and then you find the rocks on the path.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, you know, I mean I think sometimes there's there's
definitely a bit of crossover between detective work and journalism,
and I think, like, yeah, I was just I was
just interested in every aspect of it. I was like,
we gotta you know, because the detectives have their narrative,
and they obviously have their reputation to protect, and they
had kind of a defensive stance about this case and
(14:19):
about what they were doing. And then meanwhile, you know,
it's also a story about these sort of like amateur
detectives who are also trying to put these clues.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Together and you know, ask people, have you seen this guy?
Are you hiding him?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
And so for me, yeah, it was like also going
into this scene and putting on my own detective hat
and being like, okay, well we have these two different narratives.
We have the actual detectives, we have the amateur detectives,
and like where do I like, what are the other
questions that I have that haven't been solved by either
group of people. So for me, it was really just
kind of trying to close the loop of all of
this of like, you know, what is the full complete
(14:53):
story here? And that that was really that's something that
I really really enjoy. You know.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
What was really interes seen is that when you first
started talking about the amateur detectives on the podcast I
because I am a pod podcaster and I do believe
in social media. I sat there and I thought, I
don't see them as amateurs. I see them as being
influencers and people who who know how to play the
game of social media. And a lot of those detectives
don't know their game. So I kept thinking, did you
(15:20):
really need to use that word amateur because they're not amateurs?
Are pros on that social media really right?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
And the interesting thing, you know days, I mean, I
don't think that they call themselves influencers, but I think
it's just a matter of them having been nineteen and
having grown up on social media and understanding how the
algorithm works, understanding how to tell a story that visually
and with music and with text, and so I think
just have this like incredible telling industory is about the
(15:48):
fact that you know, they were empowered to do this thing.
They had agency, and they had these tools at their
disposal that say, the detectives did not have, and so
and so when I say amateur detectives, it's not necessarily
describing them as amateur. I think they were incredibly strategic
and incredibly skilled at what they did. There was a
lot of precision to it, but you know, it's just
the fact that there they were team girls. You know,
(16:10):
this shouldn't have been their job, it shouldn't have been
their responsibility to try to solve their friend's murder, and
yet they did it and that was what was really incredible.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
So halfs off to them.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Absolutely, where can people go to find out more about you? Jin?
And I know that the National Domestic Violence Hotline. You
give those guys a big plug which is so special
from your heart.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yes, absolutely absolutely we wanted to connect people with re
I mean part of this podcast too is being able
to connect people with resources to tell story, tell stories
of domestic violence and of people who were able to
get the help that they need. And you can also
follow me on substancewan dot substack dot com. Yeah, I
hope you listen. It's a really really incredible.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
You please come back to the future. The door is always
going to be open for you.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Thank you so much, Errow, this was great.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Will you be brilliant today?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Okay, thank you he as well
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