October 4, 2025 • 19 mins
Pod Crashing episode 395 with Karoline Borega from the podcast Betrayal season 4. Karoline Borega married a man of honor - a respected Colorado Springs Police officer. She knew there would be sacrifices to accommodate her husband's career. But she had no idea that he was using his badge to fool everyone. This season, we expose a man who swore two sacred oaths-one to his badge, one to his bride-and broke them both. We follow Karoline as she questions everything she thought she knew about her partner of over 20 yearsEPISODES AVAILABLE HERE:Https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-betrayal-season-4-95632727/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, welcome back to the conversation. Let's do some pod crashing.
Episode number three seventy five is with Caroline Barrega from
the podcast Betrayal season four.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Thank you. I know that it sounds like I'm being
extremely open, but the fact is is that I was
inspired to be able to share my story and be
this open by the prior season cast members. I mean
the persons who are willing to let the audience into
their life and to see what they had experienced and
(00:31):
just the incredible trauma and healing and their journey was
what inspired me. And so being able to hear my
predecessors and their bravery and the integrity that they had
it greatly helped me. And what inspired me to do
this was the hope that I could help someone else
not to live with the shame and guilt of someone
(00:51):
else's actions.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I'm starting to hear a lot about how one person's
podcast has inspired somebody to step forward, and that in
my heart because I've been podcasting since twenty twelve, back
in the day when people said what are you doing?
And so now that I'm starting to see the evolution
and I'm hearing what it's doing to other people's lives.
This is such a great moment in human connection.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I agree with you, and not only just a great
moment and human connection, but being able to bring to
light a topic that is so taboo. I have developed,
by way of the wonderful world of the internet and texting,
a camaraderie with the prior season cast members, and they
have been an incredible support in providing just inspiration for
(01:34):
me and words of encouragement to continue to tell my story.
And while I've had some people who have met me
with some resistance, I have so many others who have
been able to provide me with a thank you. And
You've inspired me to get help. You've inspired me not
to live in shadows and to be ashamed of what
my ex husband caused my kids and I And that's
the part that keeps me going.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I'm so inspired by how you stay so strong. I
mean is let me put it this way. I believe
in the theory the candy coated plastic bathroom mere smile,
and that is that smile you give yourself when you
know that things are tough, but you've just got to
feel good anyway, so you give that smile away.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I wish I could concur with you. But there were
days where it was difficult to get out of bed,
and there were moments. There were moments where I am
so incredibly grateful for extended family members and friends who
sat with me in the stands of my daughter's games,
just so that I could be able to be present
and try to continue on with one foot in front
(02:32):
of the other. I'm grateful for my kids, who they
inspired me to be the reason that I did not crumble.
I knew I needed to be there for them and
so that they had one parent who was their consistent
and their ongoing guideposts. But there were days where it
was extremely hard just to make it through the day.
And I am proud to say that both my kids
(02:52):
and I are still standing with resiliency and clearer eyes.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Do you ever just sit there and wonder what is
it about that experience that is going to change tomorrow?
Because we have to go through the dirt in order
to get to the clean.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
One hundred percent. There were so many moments where I
thought to myself, it can't get much worse, and then
new information will come out and it would get much worse.
And then there were other moments where I saw this
beauty in the fact that my kids and I were
starting our own chapter and our own journey together. And
it took a while, but you'll hear me discuss in
(03:27):
episode four with Andrea when we review the tapes of
my ex husband and his internal affairs investigation, where I
have moments of clarity where I realized my kids and
I did not live a lie. He lived a lie.
And I remind myself of that daily when I'm thinking
negative thoughts or I'm rewinding time and thinking could it
(03:48):
should have? Would? I think to myself, Wait, my kids
and I were absolutely living clarity and the truth and
a lovely life with love and happiness. He was the
one who was choosing to make decisions that would falter
and be a stain in our community and a stain
in our family.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Who planted that seat inside your thought process, that he
was the one living a lie, not you. That's a
powerful statement.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It's an extremely powerful statement. I'm not ashamed to admit
that the second that this happened, I immediately called a therapist
and asked for assistance to be able to continue on
for my kids and I and so making sure that
I had someone who was providing me insight and clarity
and therapeutic intervention. And she was the person who when
I let her know, I have lived a lie. I
(04:34):
have lived over two decades of a lie. She said,
you and your kids were not living a lie. You
and your kids were living the truth. Everything about you
was true. He was the lie.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
You go into a therapist, did they invite you to write?
Did you keep journals? Or was that a fear factor?
Because it's like, oh my god, what happens if he
gets them?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I have four hundred and thirty seven pages nice that
reflect that I have no fear if he gets them.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Because when you open up that Julia Cameron from The
Artist Way, she calls it cleaning out your closet. So
when you get a go on the podcast to do
this and you're cleaning out your closet, what are you
putting back in there?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
You're going to hear in future episodes that I had
the good fortune through the podcast to meet a wonderful
life coach. And this life coach has connected me with
various groups that have inspired me, provided me camaraderie, and
she has provided me insight as to why this is
not something that I need to continuously replay the tape over.
(05:37):
It is something that I can reflect on and move
forward through. And the example I can give you is
a lot of times I have had doubts of listening
to some of his prior colleagues on this could have
been my fault or them saying comments that are pretty
crass and very embarrassing. But she pointed out to me
(05:58):
he struggles with an addiction, and just because this is
a sex addiction, would anyone sit and make that same
joke to me if it was a heroin addiction? Would
anyone have this type of stereotype and feel comfortable making
their sideways comments if his addiction was not a sex
addiction but rather a serious narcotic addiction. And the answers no,
(06:20):
they wanted.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Oh my god, you bring up such a very powerful point,
because we're talking about a man who had to honor
his job as well as he also had to honor
his wife. But it was it was falling apart. Did
you go through stages of denial?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Did I go through stages of denial during our marriage?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
In other words, when you first started finding out? Were
you like now, now, that's not true.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I don't think I ever went through a stage of
denial after he revealed his actions, I definitely went through
a stage of shock and a stage of just trying
to continue to put my head back and my shoulders
back in, my head up, and trying to move forward.
There was never any denial of his actions. When he
admitted what he did. I knew that he was being
(07:10):
forthcoming about his actions, and I also knew that there
was not just the very remedial revelation that he provided.
I knew in my gut that there had to be
something much more and much deeper if he was living
such a lie in a secret.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
So like when he finally confessed to you, was that
an act of him cleaning out his closet so he
could make more room.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
When he finally confessed to me, that was just the
beginning of his revelations. So you hear in episode two
when he provides his initial confession, and then as things unravel,
he goes on a path of giving just a little
bit of information, just bites out a time what he did,
(07:55):
and then ultimately I hear more and more, even when
he's in rehab. There was never a time where I
think that I was provided everything he did, And I'm
so grateful for one of the case managers that called
me when he was in rehab because she said, there's
so much that if you knew everything, there's no way
you guys will ever be able to stay married. And
(08:16):
I'm grateful for her transparency. I think that provided me
the clarity and closure that I needed to move forward.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Native Americans believe that what we do today affects the
next seven generations. What I feel from your heart is
the fact that you're trying to break that chain right
now so it does not reach even a third generation.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I absolutely agree with that statement. I think that's a
very powerful thing that you just said. The other powerful
thing that I truly believe has come from the podcast
and the persons who have been willing to come forward
and share their stories, not just on the weekly episodes,
but in the seasons is the ability to not live
with the shame and guilt. There's so much blame placed
on women who have been victimized from infidelity and men
(08:58):
who have been victimized by fidelity, but the fact of
the matter is is that the shame and guilt is
being carried as a burden by the wrong person. That
displacement is heavy and that's something that I hope shifts.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Please do not move. There's more with Caroline coming up next.
The name of the podcast is Betrayal. This is the
fourth season. Let's get back to that talk with Caroline.
How do you deal with those moments when from out
of nowhere, something in the air, a sin or a sound,
all of a sudden sends you back into your past.
How do you keep walking forward saying we're not going there.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I don't struggle with those moments often I do well.
I do see pictures. I think that social media memories
and the infamous memories that will pop up from photo memories,
I think those are both a blessing and a curse
when you see them. Sometimes you'll have this moment where
you think to yourself, oh gosh, like, this was such
(09:58):
a great memory, and then you have to remind yourself
that in the moment, you knew that you were going
to have a moment where you reflect back on that
and think, oh my gosh, like, what else was he doing,
what else was going on? What else was there behind
the scenes. But the fact is is that that doesn't
(10:19):
change that it was such a great moment for my
kids and I like we were living the truth in
those moments he was the lie.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Is this difficult today for you to kind of talk
about this only because I mean, it's so heavy to
carry forward and here are all these radio people and
broadcasters asking you all these questions to thrust you back
into that moment.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
You know, I have to tell you it was oddly therapeutic.
The first time I met with one of the producers
from the show and we started recording my moment with
her was the first time I had ever walked through
my relationship with my ex husband from beginning to end.
Telling her my story from how we met until that
(11:03):
very day was extremely therapeutic, and she and I laughed together,
we cried together. We had to take pause and come
back to see each other and start, you know, on
a different day because it got so emotional. But it
has been something that has been very therapeutic, not something
that has been regrettable whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So as a podcaster, I'm going to ask you a
pod casting question in the way that you've been in
the studio. So this was not planned out in the
way of writing out scripts because I loved a show prep.
But I mean, it was just, honest to God, questions,
did you know what was coming at you?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I had no idea. Oh when I sat down with
the first producer, it was supposed to just be for
the weekly series, and we sat down and we started talking,
and then as we began talking, it just evolved into
just this free flowing conversation and me walking her through
my marriage and parenthood from beginning to and the funny
(12:01):
thing about it, and as a podcaster you'll probably appreciate this.
One day, she and I had a random phone call
and she was like, oh my gosh, Caroline, everything you said,
we can vet like, we've been able to pull records
and it's coming through and you actually hear that an
episode four, you'll hear an episode for a tape of
my husband, a recording of my ex husband when he
(12:23):
is being interviewed by internal affairs. So it was not
scripted whatsoever. And the conversation and commentary is something that
was extremely free flowing and just very cathartic.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
There's so much emotion when you start with episode number one.
I mean, it really brings you into the picture. I mean,
that's what I love about podcasting is that you know,
I could be on a very crowded busy street. And
yet when you listen to your podcast, what happens is
is that I am all of a sudden in your
story that says a lot about Andrea and everybody else
that's involved, as well as yourself.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Thank you. I can tell tell you that the emotions
from those interviews were sometimes now I giggle because when
I'm sent the episodes and I listened to them, I thought, God,
I mean, like, I sound like a cry baby ball
brat every single one. But when we were reliving it
and walking through it, it was just as though I
(13:19):
was in the moment all over again. I think the
hardest episode for me to have listened to is episode five,
where I discuss hearing my daughter learn that my ex
husband had been having an affair with the mother of
her bullies, the mother of her bully. That reliving that
(13:40):
and telling someone that, I mean that was not something
I had really shared with many people, just very close
friends and family members. That was really not something I'd
ever just profoundly discussed, and the emotion and recalling it
was just so heavy. You'll hear in episode six the
moment that my daughter thinks that she received a card
(14:00):
of some sort for her high school graduation from her father,
when in fact it wasn't from him, It's actually from
a neighbor. And that was one of the most gut
wrenching and heartbreaking things to ever see in this moment
of what should have been celebratory for her to just
be deflated.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
If they say that the eyes are the window to
the soul, one of the things that I write about
so often is the fact that the last time you
saw trust in a person, but it's now gone. Do
you still remember that moment?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I still have trust in people. I do overall believe
that humans and people are good. I really do believe that,
and I see trust and that love and appreciation for
society and my kids every day.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
It's such a tough journey, but yet I know there's
gonna be listeners that are going to reach out. And
Andrea is what she does. I mean, she even offers
a betrayal pod at gmail dot com. She wants people
to constantly reach out and is that how you got
in touch with her?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I did. I Actually I didn't actually reach out to Andrea.
I reached out to Season one Gin and the Betrayal
team and let them know thank you so much for
being willing to be ron exposure story. This is something
that I've lived in the shadows of shame and guilt
with and hearing someone be able to discuss it was
just incredible and resonating and empowering. I think it was
(15:27):
season one, episode seven, if I recall correctly, where they
discussed the betrayal trauma, actual betrayal trauma, and the therapy
that is necessary to move forward. I must have played
that episode one hundred times, and it was something that
really inspired me to reach out.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I see that microphone that's in front of you. That's
a top notch microphone. So I have to ask you
this question. This isn't your only podcast, is it? You're
going to continue growing forward?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
This top notch microphone in front of me is provided
by my wonderful producer, Carrie, who wants to make sure
that I sound clear when she and I do pickups.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
And but do you find yourself maybe doing a one
on one podcast hosted by you to help others? I mean,
in other words, it's it's almost like when I talk
with authors, I go, Okay, it's really cool that you've
got this book, but now let's take it to the
fourth level. Let's let's take it to one where we
can activate the story in other people's lives and help them.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I think that's a fantastic question. And one of the
things that you can look forward to and other people
who the podcast has resonated with that you can look
forward to is the substack that is new to the
Betrayal team, and you will hear additional information not only
from me, but from my daughter, and you'll have an
opportunity to get to know me and my family a
(16:47):
little bit more through substack. And so the project is ongoing.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
For you to be in this position of right now,
how are you staying so positive? What is your go
to when you wake up in the morning, mind is
to go right. I've been a writer for thirty two
years because it helps release all of that stress. And
I think that's the reason why I can relate with you,
because I'm on the mail side of what you're going through.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
So I won't sugarcoat the fact that there were some
very very dark days. I mean, there are difficult days
where it was hard to get out of bed. It
was hard to remind myself to put one foot in
front of the other. And the thing that kept me
going constantly was my kids. The thought that they needed
the stability and a parent to continue to be there
and their life and their guidepost. And this was something
(17:32):
that we wanted to make sure that we emphasized with
each other and my kids and I from the beginning
had said we cannot let this break us. And there
are moments where my kids would have moments where they
were upset with their dad, and I would say, we
cannot let this break us. You have the power and
resiliency to make decisions on how we keep going forward,
whether that's a relationship with him or not. But other things,
(17:55):
simple things walking with friends. I have a consistent group
of very close friends, so I can of her family
where we eat dinner together weekly every Sunday, and that's amazing.
The other thing is running. It sounds very cheesy, but
there's something to be said about the tabata and the
rhythm of running that just kind of lets you get
lost and helps you to go forward. And you'll hear
(18:15):
as the season continues that my son is an avid runner,
and you'll hear that he actually completed the Boston Marathon
four times in a row. And I had the good
fortune to have production come out with me for his
final Boston Marathon before he graduated from college. And it's
(18:36):
quite the journey. You'll hear about it. The first time
he ran the Boston Marathon just days before that is
when his dad made the revelation and really blew up
our lives. And then he continued on his plight and
finished the Boston Marathon without anyone surrounding him knowing that
this was going on. It's just really symbolic of how
you can continue to just face adversity and succeed that
(19:00):
resiliency and knowing that there's a bigger picture.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
You are such a leader. I'm so inspired by you.
How can people reach out to you? How can people
find out more about you?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
People are welcome to reach out to the Betrayal team,
as you just identified their Gmail address, and I think
it's amazing. This is not an exaggeration. They answer every
single email, literally every single email, and when someone is
really looking for some type of inspiration or someone's really
(19:31):
wanting to provide a voice to me, they for those
emails to me. They forward videos to me. It's been
an amazing journey.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
You've got to come back to this show anytime in
the future. Because the door is always going to be
open for you.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Thank you so much. I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Will you be brilliant today?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Okay, okay, thank you have an amazing day.
Hey, welcome back to the conversation. Let's do some pod crashing.
Episode number three seventy five is with Caroline Barrega from
the podcast Betrayal season four.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Thank you. I know that it sounds like I'm being
extremely open, but the fact is is that I was
inspired to be able to share my story and be
this open by the prior season cast members. I mean
the persons who are willing to let the audience into
their life and to see what they had experienced and
(00:31):
just the incredible trauma and healing and their journey was
what inspired me. And so being able to hear my
predecessors and their bravery and the integrity that they had
it greatly helped me. And what inspired me to do
this was the hope that I could help someone else
not to live with the shame and guilt of someone
(00:51):
else's actions.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I'm starting to hear a lot about how one person's
podcast has inspired somebody to step forward, and that in
my heart because I've been podcasting since twenty twelve, back
in the day when people said what are you doing?
And so now that I'm starting to see the evolution
and I'm hearing what it's doing to other people's lives.
This is such a great moment in human connection.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I agree with you, and not only just a great
moment and human connection, but being able to bring to
light a topic that is so taboo. I have developed,
by way of the wonderful world of the internet and texting,
a camaraderie with the prior season cast members, and they
have been an incredible support in providing just inspiration for
(01:34):
me and words of encouragement to continue to tell my story.
And while I've had some people who have met me
with some resistance, I have so many others who have
been able to provide me with a thank you. And
You've inspired me to get help. You've inspired me not
to live in shadows and to be ashamed of what
my ex husband caused my kids and I And that's
the part that keeps me going.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I'm so inspired by how you stay so strong. I
mean is let me put it this way. I believe
in the theory the candy coated plastic bathroom mere smile,
and that is that smile you give yourself when you
know that things are tough, but you've just got to
feel good anyway, so you give that smile away.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I wish I could concur with you. But there were
days where it was difficult to get out of bed,
and there were moments. There were moments where I am
so incredibly grateful for extended family members and friends who
sat with me in the stands of my daughter's games,
just so that I could be able to be present
and try to continue on with one foot in front
(02:32):
of the other. I'm grateful for my kids, who they
inspired me to be the reason that I did not crumble.
I knew I needed to be there for them and
so that they had one parent who was their consistent
and their ongoing guideposts. But there were days where it
was extremely hard just to make it through the day.
And I am proud to say that both my kids
(02:52):
and I are still standing with resiliency and clearer eyes.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Do you ever just sit there and wonder what is
it about that experience that is going to change tomorrow?
Because we have to go through the dirt in order
to get to the clean.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
One hundred percent. There were so many moments where I
thought to myself, it can't get much worse, and then
new information will come out and it would get much worse.
And then there were other moments where I saw this
beauty in the fact that my kids and I were
starting our own chapter and our own journey together. And
it took a while, but you'll hear me discuss in
(03:27):
episode four with Andrea when we review the tapes of
my ex husband and his internal affairs investigation, where I
have moments of clarity where I realized my kids and
I did not live a lie. He lived a lie.
And I remind myself of that daily when I'm thinking
negative thoughts or I'm rewinding time and thinking could it
(03:48):
should have? Would? I think to myself, Wait, my kids
and I were absolutely living clarity and the truth and
a lovely life with love and happiness. He was the
one who was choosing to make decisions that would falter
and be a stain in our community and a stain
in our family.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Who planted that seat inside your thought process, that he
was the one living a lie, not you. That's a
powerful statement.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It's an extremely powerful statement. I'm not ashamed to admit
that the second that this happened, I immediately called a therapist
and asked for assistance to be able to continue on
for my kids and I and so making sure that
I had someone who was providing me insight and clarity
and therapeutic intervention. And she was the person who when
I let her know, I have lived a lie. I
(04:34):
have lived over two decades of a lie. She said,
you and your kids were not living a lie. You
and your kids were living the truth. Everything about you
was true. He was the lie.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
You go into a therapist, did they invite you to write?
Did you keep journals? Or was that a fear factor?
Because it's like, oh my god, what happens if he
gets them?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I have four hundred and thirty seven pages nice that
reflect that I have no fear if he gets them.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Because when you open up that Julia Cameron from The
Artist Way, she calls it cleaning out your closet. So
when you get a go on the podcast to do
this and you're cleaning out your closet, what are you
putting back in there?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
You're going to hear in future episodes that I had
the good fortune through the podcast to meet a wonderful
life coach. And this life coach has connected me with
various groups that have inspired me, provided me camaraderie, and
she has provided me insight as to why this is
not something that I need to continuously replay the tape over.
(05:37):
It is something that I can reflect on and move
forward through. And the example I can give you is
a lot of times I have had doubts of listening
to some of his prior colleagues on this could have
been my fault or them saying comments that are pretty
crass and very embarrassing. But she pointed out to me
(05:58):
he struggles with an addiction, and just because this is
a sex addiction, would anyone sit and make that same
joke to me if it was a heroin addiction? Would
anyone have this type of stereotype and feel comfortable making
their sideways comments if his addiction was not a sex
addiction but rather a serious narcotic addiction. And the answers no,
(06:20):
they wanted.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Oh my god, you bring up such a very powerful point,
because we're talking about a man who had to honor
his job as well as he also had to honor
his wife. But it was it was falling apart. Did
you go through stages of denial?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Did I go through stages of denial during our marriage?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
In other words, when you first started finding out? Were
you like now, now, that's not true.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I don't think I ever went through a stage of
denial after he revealed his actions, I definitely went through
a stage of shock and a stage of just trying
to continue to put my head back and my shoulders
back in, my head up, and trying to move forward.
There was never any denial of his actions. When he
admitted what he did. I knew that he was being
(07:10):
forthcoming about his actions, and I also knew that there
was not just the very remedial revelation that he provided.
I knew in my gut that there had to be
something much more and much deeper if he was living
such a lie in a secret.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
So like when he finally confessed to you, was that
an act of him cleaning out his closet so he
could make more room.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
When he finally confessed to me, that was just the
beginning of his revelations. So you hear in episode two
when he provides his initial confession, and then as things unravel,
he goes on a path of giving just a little
bit of information, just bites out a time what he did,
(07:55):
and then ultimately I hear more and more, even when
he's in rehab. There was never a time where I
think that I was provided everything he did, And I'm
so grateful for one of the case managers that called
me when he was in rehab because she said, there's
so much that if you knew everything, there's no way
you guys will ever be able to stay married. And
(08:16):
I'm grateful for her transparency. I think that provided me
the clarity and closure that I needed to move forward.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Native Americans believe that what we do today affects the
next seven generations. What I feel from your heart is
the fact that you're trying to break that chain right
now so it does not reach even a third generation.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I absolutely agree with that statement. I think that's a
very powerful thing that you just said. The other powerful
thing that I truly believe has come from the podcast
and the persons who have been willing to come forward
and share their stories, not just on the weekly episodes,
but in the seasons is the ability to not live
with the shame and guilt. There's so much blame placed
on women who have been victimized from infidelity and men
(08:58):
who have been victimized by fidelity, but the fact of
the matter is is that the shame and guilt is
being carried as a burden by the wrong person. That
displacement is heavy and that's something that I hope shifts.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Please do not move. There's more with Caroline coming up next.
The name of the podcast is Betrayal. This is the
fourth season. Let's get back to that talk with Caroline.
How do you deal with those moments when from out
of nowhere, something in the air, a sin or a sound,
all of a sudden sends you back into your past.
How do you keep walking forward saying we're not going there.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I don't struggle with those moments often I do well.
I do see pictures. I think that social media memories
and the infamous memories that will pop up from photo memories,
I think those are both a blessing and a curse
when you see them. Sometimes you'll have this moment where
you think to yourself, oh gosh, like, this was such
(09:58):
a great memory, and then you have to remind yourself
that in the moment, you knew that you were going
to have a moment where you reflect back on that
and think, oh my gosh, like, what else was he doing,
what else was going on? What else was there behind
the scenes. But the fact is is that that doesn't
(10:19):
change that it was such a great moment for my
kids and I like we were living the truth in
those moments he was the lie.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Is this difficult today for you to kind of talk
about this only because I mean, it's so heavy to
carry forward and here are all these radio people and
broadcasters asking you all these questions to thrust you back
into that moment.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
You know, I have to tell you it was oddly therapeutic.
The first time I met with one of the producers
from the show and we started recording my moment with
her was the first time I had ever walked through
my relationship with my ex husband from beginning to end.
Telling her my story from how we met until that
(11:03):
very day was extremely therapeutic, and she and I laughed together,
we cried together. We had to take pause and come
back to see each other and start, you know, on
a different day because it got so emotional. But it
has been something that has been very therapeutic, not something
that has been regrettable whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So as a podcaster, I'm going to ask you a
pod casting question in the way that you've been in
the studio. So this was not planned out in the
way of writing out scripts because I loved a show prep.
But I mean, it was just, honest to God, questions,
did you know what was coming at you?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
I had no idea. Oh when I sat down with
the first producer, it was supposed to just be for
the weekly series, and we sat down and we started talking,
and then as we began talking, it just evolved into
just this free flowing conversation and me walking her through
my marriage and parenthood from beginning to and the funny
(12:01):
thing about it, and as a podcaster you'll probably appreciate this.
One day, she and I had a random phone call
and she was like, oh my gosh, Caroline, everything you said,
we can vet like, we've been able to pull records
and it's coming through and you actually hear that an
episode four, you'll hear an episode for a tape of
my husband, a recording of my ex husband when he
(12:23):
is being interviewed by internal affairs. So it was not
scripted whatsoever. And the conversation and commentary is something that
was extremely free flowing and just very cathartic.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
There's so much emotion when you start with episode number one.
I mean, it really brings you into the picture. I mean,
that's what I love about podcasting is that you know,
I could be on a very crowded busy street. And
yet when you listen to your podcast, what happens is
is that I am all of a sudden in your
story that says a lot about Andrea and everybody else
that's involved, as well as yourself.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Thank you. I can tell tell you that the emotions
from those interviews were sometimes now I giggle because when
I'm sent the episodes and I listened to them, I thought, God,
I mean, like, I sound like a cry baby ball
brat every single one. But when we were reliving it
and walking through it, it was just as though I
(13:19):
was in the moment all over again. I think the
hardest episode for me to have listened to is episode five,
where I discuss hearing my daughter learn that my ex
husband had been having an affair with the mother of
her bullies, the mother of her bully. That reliving that
(13:40):
and telling someone that, I mean that was not something
I had really shared with many people, just very close
friends and family members. That was really not something I'd
ever just profoundly discussed, and the emotion and recalling it
was just so heavy. You'll hear in episode six the
moment that my daughter thinks that she received a card
(14:00):
of some sort for her high school graduation from her father,
when in fact it wasn't from him, It's actually from
a neighbor. And that was one of the most gut
wrenching and heartbreaking things to ever see in this moment
of what should have been celebratory for her to just
be deflated.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
If they say that the eyes are the window to
the soul, one of the things that I write about
so often is the fact that the last time you
saw trust in a person, but it's now gone. Do
you still remember that moment?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I still have trust in people. I do overall believe
that humans and people are good. I really do believe that,
and I see trust and that love and appreciation for
society and my kids every day.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
It's such a tough journey, but yet I know there's
gonna be listeners that are going to reach out. And
Andrea is what she does. I mean, she even offers
a betrayal pod at gmail dot com. She wants people
to constantly reach out and is that how you got
in touch with her?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I did. I Actually I didn't actually reach out to Andrea.
I reached out to Season one Gin and the Betrayal
team and let them know thank you so much for
being willing to be ron exposure story. This is something
that I've lived in the shadows of shame and guilt
with and hearing someone be able to discuss it was
just incredible and resonating and empowering. I think it was
(15:27):
season one, episode seven, if I recall correctly, where they
discussed the betrayal trauma, actual betrayal trauma, and the therapy
that is necessary to move forward. I must have played
that episode one hundred times, and it was something that
really inspired me to reach out.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I see that microphone that's in front of you. That's
a top notch microphone. So I have to ask you
this question. This isn't your only podcast, is it? You're
going to continue growing forward?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
This top notch microphone in front of me is provided
by my wonderful producer, Carrie, who wants to make sure
that I sound clear when she and I do pickups.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
And but do you find yourself maybe doing a one
on one podcast hosted by you to help others? I mean,
in other words, it's it's almost like when I talk
with authors, I go, Okay, it's really cool that you've
got this book, but now let's take it to the
fourth level. Let's let's take it to one where we
can activate the story in other people's lives and help them.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I think that's a fantastic question. And one of the
things that you can look forward to and other people
who the podcast has resonated with that you can look
forward to is the substack that is new to the
Betrayal team, and you will hear additional information not only
from me, but from my daughter, and you'll have an
opportunity to get to know me and my family a
(16:47):
little bit more through substack. And so the project is ongoing.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
For you to be in this position of right now,
how are you staying so positive? What is your go
to when you wake up in the morning, mind is
to go right. I've been a writer for thirty two
years because it helps release all of that stress. And
I think that's the reason why I can relate with you,
because I'm on the mail side of what you're going through.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
So I won't sugarcoat the fact that there were some
very very dark days. I mean, there are difficult days
where it was hard to get out of bed. It
was hard to remind myself to put one foot in
front of the other. And the thing that kept me
going constantly was my kids. The thought that they needed
the stability and a parent to continue to be there
and their life and their guidepost. And this was something
(17:32):
that we wanted to make sure that we emphasized with
each other and my kids and I from the beginning
had said we cannot let this break us. And there
are moments where my kids would have moments where they
were upset with their dad, and I would say, we
cannot let this break us. You have the power and
resiliency to make decisions on how we keep going forward,
whether that's a relationship with him or not. But other things,
(17:55):
simple things walking with friends. I have a consistent group
of very close friends, so I can of her family
where we eat dinner together weekly every Sunday, and that's amazing.
The other thing is running. It sounds very cheesy, but
there's something to be said about the tabata and the
rhythm of running that just kind of lets you get
lost and helps you to go forward. And you'll hear
(18:15):
as the season continues that my son is an avid runner,
and you'll hear that he actually completed the Boston Marathon
four times in a row. And I had the good
fortune to have production come out with me for his
final Boston Marathon before he graduated from college. And it's
(18:36):
quite the journey. You'll hear about it. The first time
he ran the Boston Marathon just days before that is
when his dad made the revelation and really blew up
our lives. And then he continued on his plight and
finished the Boston Marathon without anyone surrounding him knowing that
this was going on. It's just really symbolic of how
you can continue to just face adversity and succeed that
(19:00):
resiliency and knowing that there's a bigger picture.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
You are such a leader. I'm so inspired by you.
How can people reach out to you? How can people
find out more about you?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
People are welcome to reach out to the Betrayal team,
as you just identified their Gmail address, and I think
it's amazing. This is not an exaggeration. They answer every
single email, literally every single email, and when someone is
really looking for some type of inspiration or someone's really
(19:31):
wanting to provide a voice to me, they for those
emails to me. They forward videos to me. It's been
an amazing journey.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
You've got to come back to this show anytime in
the future. Because the door is always going to be
open for you.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Thank you so much. I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Will you be brilliant today?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Okay, okay, thank you have an amazing day.
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