May 28, 2025 • 55 mins
Hosts Lee Addison and Johnny Davidson once again delve into the upcoming Ashes Rugby League series in this episode of Ashes Rugby League Podcast!
We hear from England wing Tommy Makinson on his chances of representing England this year. The boys also discuss the key issues which can impact the 2025 series, the one-off test in 2002 that went badly for the British and bad behaviour from players on Ashes tour to England 100 years ago!
Join Lee Addison and John Davidson for analysis, news, interviews with guests, history lessons and lots more every fortnight to help whet your appetite for the 2025 series between England and Australia!
Lee is an Englishman who has coached at NRL clubs and lived in Australia a LONG time. John is an Australian journalist based in the UK for many a year!
You can find and reach out to Lee at rugbyleaguecoach.com.au and John on X at @johnnyddavidson
We hear from England wing Tommy Makinson on his chances of representing England this year. The boys also discuss the key issues which can impact the 2025 series, the one-off test in 2002 that went badly for the British and bad behaviour from players on Ashes tour to England 100 years ago!
Join Lee Addison and John Davidson for analysis, news, interviews with guests, history lessons and lots more every fortnight to help whet your appetite for the 2025 series between England and Australia!
Lee is an Englishman who has coached at NRL clubs and lived in Australia a LONG time. John is an Australian journalist based in the UK for many a year!
You can find and reach out to Lee at rugbyleaguecoach.com.au and John on X at @johnnyddavidson
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, Johnny, give us a good day mate. Gooday that
that fella who just said good eye is actually in
England and the fellaw who said hello like an Northern
Englishman is in Australia. My name is Lee Addison and
you've just heard from John Davidson. John Davidson, the intrepid Reporter,
(00:23):
as I labeled you in your absence from the last podcast.
I want to I want to apologize for the sound
quality at my end on the last podcast to everyone listening.
And the listenership has been great, John really really happy
with it, aren't we here?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
We are?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I've got a few people want to be guests, so
we should have some interesting interesting guests coming out in
the next few weeks as well.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
You're doing better than me, although I have got one
next week. I've done the interview already a fellow called
Marcus Vassalocopolis who played for Lead and he's played against
Australia twice now. His first game against the touring Kangaroos
(01:09):
was in nineteen ninety four, so some of the opposition
included Big Mal Laurie, Daily Alfi Langa etal and he
was eighteen years old and I'd played a handful of
first grade games. What were you doing at eighteen, John in.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Nineteen ninety nine when I was eighteen, I was studying
for my HSC. I don't even know if there is
a HSC anymore, and was getting into pubs in the
still city of Newcastle.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And so, I mean his story is intriguing because imagine
an eighteen year old going up against all those players
that were your absolute idols. And he talks in the
interview how he used to go down to the video
shop to get Winfield Cup games and stuff. Right anyway,
so he's played against probably one of the best Australian
sides that's ever visited our shores, even though I didn't
go through undefeated. I want to say shows, I mean
(02:00):
my original ones. And then his career, I mean, we're
not talking about a player that had a glittering career.
He played lower grade in England, so he was at
Sheffield and then huns It and then he ended up
in America. His next game against the Kangaroos was ten
years later, playing for the USA and they were twenty
(02:26):
twenty something for up at half time. So if there's
any two head spinning games that anybody can play in
against the Kangaroos. I think they're it and he also
talks about how important the Ashes are to him too.
Now in terms of getting interviews, you've got one for
us today. You've been out and about again.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, I have. I spoke to Tommy Makinson after the
Change Cap semifinal when his Callahan's team were knocked out
by a whole kr and Tommy was very good in
the sheds after the game on a number of matters,
but England being an interesting one. Just after Maddie Ashton
obviously ruled out for the year, which is a blow
(03:10):
for England. The Warrington we are and obviously with Dom
young Well relegated to reserve grade headed back to the Knights.
But you know, you'd have to say his selection maybe
not as certain as it once was, so maybe Tommy
could get a spot back in the in the England team.
He's obviously been a fantastic but I think, off the
(03:30):
top of my head, a five time Super Hig Grand
Final winger winner. As a winger, he also won a
Golden Boot I think off the top of my head
was twenty nineteen, so yeah, a veteran player and probably
someone would have been nice to see in the NRL
at some point he's correct against some interest from the Knights,
but decided to stay in the sunny shores of England.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Am I writing thinking he actually retired from international football
as well?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
You are wrong, Oh, you are wrong. I actually spoke
to him end of twenty twenty three and he said,
if my memory serves me right, he'd never retire. But
he you know, he probably obviously wouldn't be expecting or
putting himself forward. And I think at that point they
were coming up against Tonga and then obviously some last
(04:18):
year and Seann Wayne was looking to blood some younger players,
some new players in for the World Cup, which he did.
But he's never officially retired, and I think, you know,
his message is, look, if Wayney gives me a call,
I'm available. So I think he realizes. And I don't
think he's probably ever played against Australia because he sort
(04:39):
of came into the reckoning for England after the twenty
seven AM World Cup final, so I don't think he
was in that twenty seven World squad. So I don't
think he's probably ever played or may have only played
against Australia once. So the chance to play in the
first Ashes for twenty two years. I mean, if you
were a top English player, you're going to knock that back.
I mean that's a that's a great highlight that you
(05:02):
have had. So yeah, he's he's available if his country
wants him.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Now. I did have that interview scheduled him for a
bit later, but because we've talked him up so much,
I think we should drop it in now. So please
listen to John Davidson with Tommy Makinson on the international game.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I think I spoke to about eighteen months ago and
you were sort of signing England. Yeah you wouldn't You
weren't retiring, but you thought that would be Oh yeah,
Dom Jong's playing reserve grade, do you I know?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Ye, again, Don's a great player. Yeah. I think there's
some great players. Probably leave it to.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Them younger English players now, to be honest, you know
there's some great wingers, you know, with my heage now
into the mere the thirties. Yeah, I think I'd love
to play it against Australia, but it's the pinnacle of
that game.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
If England need me, I'll always been the boat. I
think there's a for sure.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
I'm just signing. You know, Maddy Ashton and Tom Johnson
get injured.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
And if any brings me lining up for the Ashes, that's.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Loving to bits and he knows what I can do.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Yeah, but you know we have our honest conversations, me
and Winnie and yeah, I think at the minute, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
You're back. I'm really look forward to.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
You didn't hear what we said then when you were
listening to the interview You're back with Lee and Johnny
on Ash's Rugby League Podcast episode four. If you like
the sounds of that dinky dyed puzzy that is the
intrepid reporter operating in the mother country. You can get
John at Johnny Y Johnny D. Davidson. So j O
(06:38):
j O H double n y D Davidson. So I'll
say that again because I butchered it at Johnny D.
Davidson that's on X and is a prolific XA. You
can also email him at journalist dot John Davidson at
gmail dot com. You can get me at Rugby League
Coach dot com dot au, and you can email me
(07:01):
Adamin at Rugby League Coach dot com dot au. If
you are listening in Australia or New Zealand or anywhere
near there, not that anyone, and not that there's many
countries near Australia, John, but you know what I'm saying.
We can fly you over. We want to fly you
over on the Rugby League Coach Ashes Tour. And if
you're thinking, oh, I can't afford that, it's going to
(07:22):
be a lot of money. Number one, it's the best
value tour you can get. Number two, you can pay
in installments and families are welcome and all that kind
of thing. English people listening to this, or anybody in Europe,
you can come on the tour, but obviously without the flights.
So if you understand French, you'll know if I say
psalms aeroplane, you know that means without the plane. So
(07:46):
you can come on. Because we're going to have a
week in Liverpool, a week in London in all the
nice hotels there. We're only going to be there for
a couple of weeks. Listen. I won't talk about that anymore,
but you can find it on Rugby leag Coach dot
com dot a you all the details and I will
add thirteen minutes of conversation at the end of this
podcast with the travel agent. So that's enough trying to
(08:09):
sell to you, even though we do have a book
as well. Just throw it in John in a few
hours as we record Origin one, Queensland hosting New South Wales.
So when people listen to this podcast it will be
after the game. From the Ashes Rugby League podcast point
(08:30):
of view, how important is this game for selection purposes?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yeah, that's a great that's a great question. I think
you know, since since the first Origin in the in
the early eighties, and you know, previously before Origin even existed,
when you so Well played Queensland, it was always a
national selection trial, wasn't it. In a way it was
it was you know, you picked the kangaroos from the
best and you so Wells and Queensland players from that
(08:56):
game less and less so this year or but it's
still massively important. I think Origin is one of the
most intense arenas, if not the most intense arenas in
rugby league. So if you can produce in Origin, you know,
the theory is you can produce in a World Cup,
you can produce in a Test match. But there are
probably more players than ever who while they're eligible for Australia,
(09:20):
they are eligible for Kangaroos and to play for you.
So I was in Queensland. They've elected to play for
countries of their heritage. So there's a number of players.
Off the top of my head, I'm going to go
maybe six, maybe seven, but maybe more. If you put
those in there, out of what the thirty four, that's
quite a lot who won't be eligible for Kangaroos. And
(09:42):
I think that's certainly pissed off melmon Inger and the
likes of Wyan Bennett, but I think it's a net
positive for the whole game.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
I think Malmoninger's got a very important job during this
Origin series, which is getting on the phone to the
likes of Homicide Taboti, fid Out, Calen Ponger. If they
play well, I'm saying, may I want you in my side?
And I think he's got to do a little bit
(10:11):
of that. He's got to pick some of them, he's
got to he's got to sort of assure people of
the jersey as much as he can without assuring them
of the jersey, because I think some of them will
edge their bets quite frankly. There's a couple of players
I'm not sure about because I just forget Tino samlu
(10:34):
He or has he already decided he's not playing for Australia.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I think he has. I think that the rumors and
the nudging has been that yeah, he'll he'll turn it
for somehow obviously has played for Australia.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah, yeah, Okay, So he's another one. I mean, I'd
be giving him a call if he plays well, because
I personally believe that he's going to have a big
impact on this Origin series. And if you're listening to
this and he was awful in the first one, please
please remember this too. More on the other side of
(11:08):
the coin, Creighton has already gone, hasn't it Stephen Crechighton
That yeah, I think that horse has bolted. Brian Tottle,
that horse has bolted. Yea one. He's another one. I'd
be on the phone too.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
I think he's the one that there's been noises for
over a year that he's gonna I like for Samoa.
So can you imagine that somewhere in front row of
Tina and Paine. That's that's a big that's a big
front I think. I think Payehss will definitely be a
big blow for the Kangaroos. I think that front row
is an issue. But then you know you mentioned Crichton
(11:43):
and the center's I mean there's there's obviously Latrell, there's
Matt Burton, there's Tommy Turbo who's not playing, Origin who's injured.
You know, there's Valentine Holmes. I think that it's interesting
when you look at the different positions you mentioned the fullback.
I think austral has probably got about eight fallbacks, but
the certain positions prop were perhaps not as strong.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Well. On that subject too, somebody with a very regal
surname has made a decision, hasn't he.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
He has the Huddersfield born, Maitland raised Max King. I
actually spoke to Max. I'm going to say it was
three years ago. I did a piece for the I
in the UK and he might have been even at
Melbourne at that point, and he was saying, you know, look,
I'd love to play for England were eligible. I was
born in England. His father comes from a great I
(12:38):
think it's four generations. He's great grandfather played first grade.
His grandfather, whose name escapes me, was one of the
members of the legendary Saint George team that won eleven
comps in a row back in the sixties and his
father played first grade as well, and his father had
a fair career in England. But he actually Max said,
(13:02):
I think a couple of months ago again tewing Wine
pick me, but he got picked from you somewhere else,
so he won't the in the asset. So that one
that was the big that was a controversial one, wasn't it,
Terrell may or Max King? And yeah, as you know,
I like to quiz you on something and I've not
prepared you for this one, but I've prepared you a bit.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Today with a few things. An English born prop who
played for Australia in the nineteen ninety four tour.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Oh I don't. Yeah, you haven't premiered me for this,
but I'm going to say I in Roberts just because
I know Ian Roberts career very well. Because he was
a legend.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, born in London, born in London. Yeah. Another one
who actually came up on my Facebook memories and as
a rest in peace this week bowls Old Fulton, the
legendary coach born in Warrington. Coach and players should have
said it is an immortal I've just player and coach
(14:10):
born in He's only the.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Most famous mainly player of all time.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Don't turn this into a Manly Seagles podcast.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
I love the fact that he was born in Warrington.
I think he moved to Wollongong when he was about three.
But there's regular and obviously coached the Kangaroos, you know,
and was a legend for the Kangaroos as a player
and as a coach. But there's numerous people on Twitter
or x who enjoy, you know, reminding me that Warrington's
Warrington's Bob Fulton, even though I think, you know, he's
(14:42):
probably more they should call they should call that the
ashes ashes of origin and of the cutoff date at
three months old, England or Great Britain would have never
lost one. I like the fact that where you're born
makes such a difference between who you can play for.
I mean, but your parents might be flying around the
(15:03):
world and on holiday, but the particular.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, or you're chased out by some war torn thing
or something like that. Yes, we had some very interesting
things when I was coach of Poland. There was as
you know, the Polish border has changed more often than
we've changed our underpants. I said that in such a
way as if we change our underpants together, but that's
never happened. But the there was one player whose grandparents
(15:39):
defined themselves as Polish, but they were actually born or
one of them was born at a time when it
was under German occupation, so the Rugby League International Federation
didn't want to clear them to play originally, so we
had to go through a few diplomatic processes to get
to do that. So anyway we we die.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
You know, Adrian Mowley's brother plays for Wales and he's
the actual link to a certain country.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
And let's go with a history lesson for everyone first
and then we'll go to a discussion point and then
we'll do another history lesson. There's been calls for the
Great Billy Boston to be knighted, so Billy Boston legendary
wing Welsh born, ended up moving up to Wigan, played
a million games for Wigan and Great Britain and Wales.
(16:31):
For those who aren't aware, there's a labor government in
England for the first time in about fourteen years, right,
fifteen sixteen years, something like that, so they tend to
be a bit more supportive of rugby league because there's
more northern MPs that have been in situ for quite
a while and the and the Wigan MP Lisa Nandy
(16:53):
has been one of the leaders of calling for Billy
Boston to be knighted. So we'd needless to say we'd
agree with that, wouldn't we, John, We would, We.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Would Now regular league players ever been nighted, which is
a bit of a joke.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Boston played thirty one games for Great Britain, was the
first player to score four tries in a game against
New Zealand. He was the first non white player to
be selected to tour Australia and New Zealand in nineteen
fifty four, on which he set a new record of
thirty six tries in eighteen games. Boston also played in
(17:27):
the nineteen sixty two tour, scoring a further twenty two tries.
So Billy Boston actually holds John the world record for
British British tries on tour. So that just shows you
how good he was. And there's many people in Wigan,
(17:49):
because I used to work there for a few years,
they think Billy Boston could have played in any era.
I don't know what you know about him, John.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yeah, I mean just a little bit of what you've
said there obviously well behind my time, but I think
the modern pilance you would say he was a freak,
just an unbelievable player, unbelievable try scorer, and yeah it
would have been a legend in any era. And I
like the fact, you know, seeing a few photos and
a few clips and it's that kind of Bobby charton look,
(18:17):
you know, the Boulding, the Boulding player. You know, if
it was fine today, he would have gone to Turkey
probably at about twenty seven and got the rugdown but.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
All shared it all off.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Yeah yeah, yeah that too and got some tax. But
just a legend and still going strong, isn't he? I think?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah? He was a Wigan the other week and they did.
He was on the screen and there was a massive
round of applause for him and he cried lovely fella too.
Now so this got me thinking John as he as
he scored the most tries on both sides of the fence.
But no in nineteen twenty one and twenty two Australian
three quarter. I'd love to know what three quarters. No
bait use those terms anymore, I know, I know Ceth
(18:58):
Blinkhorn had scored thirty tries in twenty nine matches, which
still stands as a record for most tries scored on
a Kangaroo tour. The other winger, Harold Horder hoarded the
tries and scored thirty five, and Frank Burge quite frankly
scored thirty three tries in twenty three games. So what's
(19:18):
significant there on those tours is the amount of games
they play as opposed to how many they played it
the other way. There's twenty less on this tour. There's
only three games on the tour coming up. Now what
I had to laugh when I researched this to John,
the tour also involves some degree of player misbehavior, with
(19:40):
one young footballer almost sent home from San Francisco because
of all the broken glasses following a drinking session on
board the team ship. Just in that last line, there
is so much we can unpack, so broken glasses. What
do you think would happen if Selwyn Cobbo on the
(20:03):
plane home broke some something on the plane or at
the airport broke some glasses? What do you think would happen?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Oh, he'd probably be he'd probably be fined or send home.
I mean, we can use the cricket analogy of David
Boone and whatever it was, the four thousand Cans and
he drank on an Ash's cricket tour and we love him.
He's a legend. But the times of change, haven't they?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
They have? And then another thing is it's only relatively
recently in the Ashes history that they actually flew between
these two countries. They used to travel on ships take
four weeks.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I was going to say that when you mentioned the
via San Francisco, I'd say at least in the twenties,
it probably would have been a three months journey or something,
you know, something close to six weeks. So I think
that's one of the reasons why they played four hundred
and sixty two games, because bloody longer.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Get yeah, yeah, I mean, can you imagine can you
imagine if we had we had no planes? And can
you imagine the r l P A now science like
(21:22):
they'd have to refit the boat out, weren't they to
deal with it? On the subject of the r l PA,
I you live in England, so you'll see the forty
twenty magazine that comes out in May June, I wrote
an article basically outlining reasons why England can win the
Ashes this year in twenty twenty five or using the
(21:46):
same reasons against them. And the four areas were the
r LPA, the quality of the NRL Australia depleted, and
I think we've already discussed that right so well, I think, oh,
when need to do is discourse around, in and around.
That is the impact that we'll have. And then the
other one is form and history. So let's go to
(22:07):
the r lp A first. I argue that the r
l PA are going to make life hard for Malmoninger
and I am privy to some of the conversations that
are going on, and I know there's frustration at the
same time, I know shame Sean Wayne has said is
the similar frustrations in England trying to get them together,
(22:28):
et cetera. So what say you about that as an issue?
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yeah, I think one hundred percent. But on I think
the you know, sorry being reported the r l p
A stopped and Melmoninger wanted a test against France, I
believe in Paris on the way over, so that got
kyboshed and I think any potential, you know, I think
I think there was some clubs came maybe a Wigan
or a Leeds to play a warm up game before
(22:53):
the first test. That got kiboshed as well because of
you know, player loans and that sort of thing. So
I don't think mouth too happy about that. And the
flip side, as you mentioned with Sean Wayne, he's having
no more up games. I don't think he's even having
much you know, get togethers or training sessions because of
the the fact that the players play a lot more
(23:13):
games in England and the clubs basically rule the roosts.
So I wouldn't say it's ideal preparation for either nations. No,
maybe it cancels each other out now. The other thing
is depending on when they fly over could have a
massive impact because our last discussion topic today is about
when Britain went over to Australia on a on a
short leading time and that was disastrous. The next point
(23:37):
is the quality of the NRL, and we've discussed this before.
The pros of it are that there's so many English
players in the NRL now and they could be benefit
benefiting from that. The cons from an English perspective that
win the Australians know more of their weaknesses.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
E g. Dom You again, going back to the quality
of the NRL list could benefit Australia because they're playing
higher quality football each week. Where do you sit on
the quality of the NRL barometer?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, I mean I think the quality of the NRL
remains ridiculously high, is getting higher and higher, you know.
I think I think more England players playing regularly the
NRL will only help the English national team. I think
probably this season. But you could say in recent seasons
in Super League you've got a top few clubs and
(24:35):
I mean you could argue it's only two this year,
maybe maybe three or four who are very, very far
above the rest. You know, at the moment you've got
a whole caren Wigan, who are streets ahead of everyone else.
And then you've got some clubs, one in your hometown
who's had a lot of issues in Salford pumped by
seventy two points. I think of only one one game
this year. You got Huddersfield and Castleford who also are
(24:58):
just you know, well well off the pace. So if
you think about those England international say at Wigan, at
Warrington and Leeds, they're not getting intense games week in
week out, which you are in the NRL. I mean,
there will be blowouts in the NRL, obviously, but the
overall quality is a lot higher, So every week you
have to be at your best and it's just not
(25:20):
the same in super LYUE.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
On the subject of Australia depleted, we've already talked about
how they might lose some players. My question to you
does that put more pressure on England and does it
help mal create a siege mentality with the players he's
got left.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, I think
you can look at two ways. There's no pressure on
England because they haven't won a series for fifty years,
they haven't beaten Australia as England since ninety five, and
there's Great Britain since two thousand and six. So there's
no pressure on that one and that's things. But the
flip side of that is they're at home. There's going
(26:05):
to be huge crowds, there will be pressure. There's always pressure,
and you know there's a massive who do there's a
massive gorilla on the next and yeah, you could say
look straight around as strong. You know, there's no Cameron Smith,
there's no Andrew John's, there's no group of Kronk Jonathan's
thirst and et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, a bit
of pressure on England, I would say, but you know,
I reckon now, you know he'll relish that, and you know,
(26:27):
you just wouldn't want to be the first Kangaroo team
to lose the ashes in in half a century. I
mean that that would be devastating for them, and.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
That ties me into the next point form in history,
England's form they played Tonga and Samoa, who left half
the players at home.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I think, yeah, we've got to get it. We've got
to get away from that. I think I think people
look for copy outs for why Tonga and Samoa didn't
beat England. Then I think we've got to give them
England more credit. You know, I think that's a bit harsh.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
You're just an Englishman now history in these games. I mean,
you know we've covered that before on the podcast, so
I'll direct to people to the old podcast now talking
about needing to get the travel right. Do you remember
the two thousand and two one off Test at the
(27:23):
Sydney Football Stadium.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Do you not remember it?
Speaker 3 (27:32):
May in and two? I was in my what was
I was in my third year job? I was in
my third year of studying communications at university. Yeah, probably
drunk most weekend. So no, I don't remember it, but
I read into it and it doesn't make for pretty
(27:53):
reading for the anglophiles, does it.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
It was Friday, the twelfth of July two thousand and two.
I was working at Wigan and we played Halifax on
the Sunday night. So even the even that wasn't organized
very well. The players were crammed into a mini bus.
So the Wigan players and as you imagine Wiggan back
(28:18):
then probably supplied half the side, were thrown into a minibus,
driven to Manchester Airport, flown over to Sydney Sunday night,
which is Monday morning in Australia, and they played at
the s FS on Friday. Chris Radlinsky said to me,
(28:43):
he said, after twenty minutes, I just wanted to go sleep,
because that's what my body was telling me. I'm going
to go through the side sides to help everybody. So
the score ended up, like I said, sixty four to
ten to Australia. The halftime score was thirty four nil.
(29:05):
I think he could argue the game was probably over
by then. There was thirty one eight hundred and forty
four there which is not a bad crowd, not a
bad crowd. British side, Radlinski, Johnson, Wellan Senior, Pratt Sculthorpe
at six. I remember that one being interesting, an interesting selection.
(29:30):
Ryan Sheridan at seven, Terry o'connory, you interviewed recently at
PROP Barry McDermott. His mate at Prop Kieran Cunningham. Do
you remember Kieran Cunningham. What a great hooker he was.
He was great hooker. Britain was so blessed at that
time with Kieran Cunningham and Terry Newton, like you couldn't
really split them really and they brought different things. Terry
(29:51):
Newton god rest his soul was in number sixteen on
the bench. Jamie Peacocks, Stewart Field and Andy Farrell Luck
was scrum so that was the back rope. Stuart fielding
in the back role worries me a little bit. I've
got to be honest. Still still to this day it
worries me a bit. Chris Joint, Martin Gleasee and Terry Newton,
Kevin Sinfield number fifteen Martin Gleasee and what was his
(30:13):
junior club John.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
It was in Brisbane, wasn't it in Logan.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Slacks Creek not too far from where I'm recording this
right now, And his name's on the wall there. Head
coach of Britain back then was David Waite. Full back
for Australia, Lockier, Ta Kiri and tar who on the wings.
Chris McKenna and Sean Timmins in the centers. They are
(30:43):
two names that that shocked me a little bit when
I saw them. They weren't necessarily They're not names that
just come off the tongue, are they when you think
of Yeah, I mean, I think Sean.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Timmins was a great player, some heroics. When you said, well,
you know St Georgia, Christmas Kember, I think was more
of a battler. Wasn't he from Karnala. I think he
got a few origin caps of Queensland. But yeah, you
would have probably had a maybe a giddy wasn't fit
or trying to think he was another top so but
Shawn tim In a yeah, yeah, a bit of a surprise.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Trent Barrett and Andrew Johns are mean. As much as
Trent Barrett can't coach a pig to be dirty, he
was an excellent he was. He was an excellent footballer,
excellent player. Saint Greg's boy as well, and that Joey
John's went okay to the props were Shane Webke and
Jason Ryles. Danny Badeiris was hooker. What a great hooker.
He was great hooky.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Okay from school, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
You need to hear these things clear, John before he
started from my school. Gordon tallis Steve Simpson. I've got
to be honest, I can't remember Steve Simpson.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
That's that's an outrighte. He was a legend for the Nights.
He was Anthony who was everywhere, tackling machine. Following in
two thousand and one. Part of that baderas John's You
look at that, there's a lot of a lot of
Knights players there, Tahoo, John's Adiris Simpson.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, and it must be good to keep Steve Menzes
on the bench. So Scott Hill lot with scrumm I
remember him. Brent Tate on the bench. I mean, that's
that shocks me, compared to Timmins and McKenna starting in.
Tate being on the bench shocked me. Maybe they went
out drinking that week or something. Willie Mason on the
(32:34):
bench and Jason Stevens Chris Anderson was the coach. Now,
I don't know about you. When you were doing your research?
What what? What? What made me giggle and reminisce and
everything was some of the comments from the media. Right,
So the game Saturday morning newspapers in Australia proclaimed the
(32:57):
death of the worldwide game? How many times we heard that?
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Dan Rookwood in the Guardian do you
know Dan? Because you right Guardian? Now he took his
job at last. It's all over. The Australians dominated in
every part of the game, but for a momentary lapse
from them early in the second half when Great Britain
(33:23):
sneaked to schools. They taught their visitors a humbling lead
league lesson like a road accident. It was horrible to watch,
but you couldn't take your eyes off.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
It's a great line, isn't it that You gotta give
down some credit that is as a wonderful one.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Do you think do you think the journalists could be
writing similar things this year? Do you think they'll they'll
they'll write with such a passion?
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Well, I would say over here we don't have many
journalists with that kind of skill or word mastery.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
But this is only two thousand and two, not nineteen
fifty two. As well, this is what.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I like.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
I like Ray French's use of of Shakespeare. Was I
mean a Ray French was a teacher, Wasn't he so
a smart blake? But yeah, there's some great there's some
great lines. I think everyone's proud of her. But when
when you get smashed, everyone's proud a bit of hyperbole,
aren't they.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
So so for those who are wondering what he said
about Shakespeare's Great Britain coat, I'll try and do it
in his voice. Oh now, then Great Britain coach David
Waite might well recall well Shakespeare's monarch Richard the Third
and his cries for a horse when all was not
going well on the battle field. Oh and then he
(34:48):
goes though, this is this is interesting. The Lions boss
may well put out such a cry for a winger,
a center or any midfield back with a smattering of
attacking flair, and then he has to go with the
coaching in Super League. So none of these have looked
at the flight, the fact that they came over five
minutes before the game. Yeah, on the other side of
(35:08):
the world. Managine some of them are writing like their
jet lag too. They're probably the emotional one, right. And
he talked about great Britain fielding at fullback, Paul Wellens,
sorry Paul Wellens was in the center, but he's a fullback,
Paul Johnson, who's a center being on the wing, a
center hooker or half back, Cal Pratt being on the wing,
(35:31):
a lock loose forward being at standoff five eight, a
lock or loose forward Kevin Sinfield being in both half
back positions, and a center Martin Gleaton on the wing.
And then you really criticized. Now I want to bring
that up because everyone's gonna know the answer to this
by the time they listen to this. But I think
(35:51):
your state are making a massive error playing Mitchell Moses
at six. He's not played there for ten years.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I mean, it's one of the controversial or debatable shall
we say, picks is is Moses. So the Leui isn't
it because Leui is a I know he's playing seven
for the Tigers now, but he is a six. He's
got that partnership with Nathan Cleary from I don't know,
bloody decade and he was fantastic for you so well
(36:20):
was last year, while Moses was also fantastic. But yeah,
it's an interesting one. Look as someone from the Blue State,
I hope it pays off. But that seems to be
a common thing, and you know, we saw it in
this game. In REP games, particularly Australian teams, you just
basically get the best players and you try and fit
them in, don't you. I mean Latrell Mitchell has played center,
(36:42):
but he plays fullback. Now there's numerous you know, the
Hammer pretty much has played across the back line, fallback center.
You do try and fit players in and sometimes it
works and sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Old coach Morris Bamford, who actually died at a similar
date as Bobby Fulton, actually just a few years before him.
Britain's dreadful performance left me humiliated and embarrassed. Weight must
do the decent thing and go, said Banford. We were
very poor in Sydney. The tactics were all wrong and
wait has no excuses, he has to go. The way
(37:18):
we played angered and annoyed me. It's proved we are
not as good as we've been led to believe. And
I don't know where we go from here, and he
also had a pop at the selections in terms of
picking not picking specialists. So everyone's crying quite significantly. Here
(37:39):
there was another comment I want, oh, Gary Scholfield, you'll
be he's still doing this called for a ban on
Australian players in the Tetleys Super League. We should implement
an international band that used to happen in the seventies.
So one of the reasons make Stevenson never played that
much for great Or England after a while was that
(38:02):
because he went to Australia it was banned. Also, it's
happened the other way as well. We stopped Australians coming over.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
And I think if you look at the history, I
think both nations would say that was a mistake.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yes, yeah, I mean that goes back to our conversation
about the NRL players, the English NRL players, whether it
benefits them or hinder them, or hinders them. Andrew John's
sparks and eleven try route having handing eight of them
and converting all but one for a twenty point personal
(38:37):
Hall and Shane Webb, William Mason fall back down, unlock
you were some of the best players Great Britain missed
twenty second, twenty seven tackles in the first half, and
Australia were out of sight after half an hour. I
can't believe you can't remember this.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
And I'm lucky to remember my name where name, tag?
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Were you were? You were you a big rugby league
person back then?
Speaker 3 (39:06):
I was a big rugby league person. I must admit, like,
apart from the occasional big Ashes games in the nineties
or the internationals, I didn't follow the international games closely
as I do now. And I think that's part of
it is in Australia it probably didn't have particularly in
the two thousands or a post Super League war. It
(39:27):
didn't have the same coverage or the same interest or
the same kind of mystique around. And I think it
was you know, it was seen and probably a lot
of Ozzie fans still seen that the Kangaroos turn up,
they win and that's it and obviously this result doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yeah, I remember seeing the empty seats and again I
think you're you're a metaphor for this. You probably didn't
care that much about international Yeah, it was probably more origin.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
It was one hundred percent. I mean, I can remember
a kid in primary school when early nineties particularly, I
remember that ninety two to ninety four Tim Shen's team.
You know, you're you're with your mates on the on
the field and you're pretending to be you know, Laurie
Daley or Bradley Kyde and that was the That was
the big That was the big thing. That was like that.
(40:16):
And I think one of the things that would help
the Astra series going forward is in England or a
great Britain win, wouldn't it because nobody likes to lose,
and that it was the fire even greater.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Now we've mentioned Origin, so we're going to close this
podcast off with your Origin one prediction, which is when
most people are listening to this, they'll know the answer
to it. So what is your origin one prediction? John?
Mine is Queensland by eighteen.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Yeah. I mean I wrote a preview yesterday on Patreon
that people can read and my heart will always say
you soth Wales, and I think if you're on paper,
they've got a better team. But Origin always points out
it's in some up que missed a few players. I'd
take Queensland by eight Okay.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
There you go. We're both tipping Queensland and we might
have egg on our face when people are listening to
this hopefully rugbyley Coach dot com dot au for me, Johnny,
your your Twitter again, Johnnyson.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Davidson and you can get me on Patreon at Rugby
League at hub dot com, long Reads.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
There you go. Now, it'd be good to see you again, John.
But because of the blistering UK sunshine, even though you've
put the blind down, it looks like you're going to
be beamed up to the Lord Almighty very soon. So
if I don't see you again, I'll see you up
there obviously.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
You will.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Take care of mates. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
I'm just here with mister Philip Ray. Do we call
you Philip or phil Is? Is it Philip on a Sunday?
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (42:03):
Philip by my mum, but yeah it feels good.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Phil is the boss of Born Travel and I have
been liaising with Phil to put on a very big trip.
You can do the honors, Philip. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (42:23):
I've been working with League exclusively the last six weeks
or so filling out a very exciting trip for all
the listeners on the podcast. Will be taking quite a
few people over to the UK for the Ashes test.
Now I believe it's the first Ashes Test for rugby
league played in the UK since two thousand and three,
(42:46):
Is that wrong?
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Two thousand and three?
Speaker 5 (42:48):
Yeah, so so yeah, good couple decades since we've been
over there.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Definitely the most eagerly anticipated international series in rugby league
for a long time, and if you ask English people
in particular, it's the most anticipated series full stop. So
the I will go in at this juncture and say
that we've got tickets for the first two tests, but
(43:15):
that was my part of the deal. I've also got
some very firm arrangements with several identities in British rugby league.
There'll be numerous little visits to clubs if people want
to do that as well, and as certainly if we
(43:35):
have some coaches who come with us, we can certainly
work out some best practice sharing and sessions with English
coaches and whatnot. So that's the rugby league stuff, I suppose.
So the first two tests, the one at Wembley and
the one at Everton. If people are wondering why there's
no headingly testing there, honestly nineteen thousand seats or something
(43:59):
like that, Phil and He sold out in about three hours,
so there was no channel there was bockless chance of
getting tickets for that. Yeah, and the trip. Everyone will
be back in Australia anyway too, or New Zealand or
wherever they're coming from. They'll be back to watch the
Third Test anyway. Just in case people switch off from
(44:21):
this podcast because they don't want to listen to the detail.
Philm some of the trip up in one minute.
Speaker 5 (44:28):
So what we've got, We've got you flying from anywhere
in Australia. We've got the group. It will be officially
departing from Sydney, but we can link you up to
connect through Sydney flying Emirates through Dubai with a short
connection flying it into London. From there you'll be picked up.
You'll be driven all the way through to a stunning
property in South Kensington. Minute walks to the Natural History Museum,
(44:50):
easy access to get into central London. We've also included
two private tours for you. One will take you through
to the pubs of London and also to the streets
of London, so you get to get a bit a
bit of history, a bit of background and a couple
of plants as well. So after that we'll be then
going to Wembley on Saturday, the twenty fifth of October
I believe the date is, and we'll be flying into
(45:11):
London on the morning of the twentieth, so you have
one full week in London as well as a couple
of activities to fill you in. From there, we'll be
driving you all the way up to Liverpool, where we've
got again some absolutely stunning properties in the heart of Liverpool.
We've got a trip out to the Lakes District included
as which is in northern England, as well as a
Beatles tour which you give you a bit of history
(45:32):
around the Beatles, which is Liverpool's where they came from.
Plenty of other things to do around Liverpool. But also
on the first of November, we'll be going to Everton
Stadium and watching the Second Test. We've got the last
few seats for that as well, and we've pretty much
sold taken those last few. You'll be flying out of
(45:54):
Manchester and it includes all your transportation from Manchester as
well to Manchester Airport again with Emirates with the short
connections through Dubai find back into Sydney on the third
of November. So the whole trip is about two weeks.
Everything is taken care of except for some meals. But
you've got all your accommodation, you transport, all your some
tours in both London and in Liverpool, and all your
(46:16):
airfas as well.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
I haven't got the ghost to tell you went well
over a minute then, because that was such a good overview.
I think the key thing I want to get across
at this juncture, and you will be able to add
a bit more flavor to this. I asked you to
(46:40):
come up with a trip where the customers, the travelers,
weren't locked into having to do something. But we're doing
this tomorrow, we're doing this in the afternoon, We're doing this.
I wanted it to be very flexible and we've achieved that,
haven't we Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (46:58):
So you've had the tours go through two three hours
in a day. You're not going to be taking much
of your time up.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
So they don't have to go, do they They don't
have to go on those tours.
Speaker 5 (47:07):
No, they're optional, they're included and it's just something for
you to give you some ideas if you knew to London.
But you've got five days, six six full days in London,
six full days in Liverpool where there's some activities planned,
but you can take that as much as you like.
You can do as much or as little as you want,
and I'm here to help with that. As well born
travel we specialize in luxury, high touch experiences and travel
(47:31):
travel arrangements. So anything that isn't on the list that
you wanted some assistance with, that's just the conversation that
you have with myself and.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
The team hit them with the price.
Speaker 5 (47:42):
This is the best bit. So all of that. Even
just if you said two weeks in London, not including
all of those things and flights for six and a
half grand per person, you'd be screaming at it. It
is six and a half thousand per person, including all
of the flights, all of your transport on the ground,
all of the tickets to the games, all of the accommodation,
all of the activities, and some meals both in all
(48:04):
destinations as well, for six and a half thousand per person.
Now that is based on twin share. If you are
a single traveler, we can and you don't mind sharing,
we can match you up with individuals that also wouldn't
mind sharing. That would be But if you just want
your own room, your own privacy the whole way through.
You're looking at about nine and a half a strained
dollars per person, So six and a half if you
(48:24):
come in as a two per person you get in
private room, then everything is all for you, or nine
and a half if you were to go as a
single traveler. If you did want to share, then just
let us know. We'll work through it and we'll work
with you on it as well.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
No unbelievable deal. Now non defuntion, well, a non refundable
deposit is two thousand dollars. We will work with people
who want to pay installments and things like that, won't
we just we have to be strict in terms of
certain time scales. Can you paint a little bit of
a picture for that for people.
Speaker 5 (48:57):
Of course, So just when you know that you're happy
to go, US is available at the moment, it is
based on sales, but we are looking at a two
thousand dollars deposit. That's all we need to secure that
your place on the tour and that would lock in
all of your flights, all the things I've mentioned, absolutely everything.
So from that, if you what we would need is
(49:17):
then final payments won't be until the thirtieth of August,
so you've got you've got three months where you can
slowly chip away at the toital balance, or you can
keep it in your account and pay the balance at
your convenience. As long as it's all paid for by then,
then we're all happy to go. That's that's all I need.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
Brilliant the bits that I can add on right. So
of course, first of all, if there's any coaches out
there listening to this and you want to do some
coaching with me while we're over there, I cansult that,
no problem. I will probably have to do with the
odd seminar or something like that over there, and there's
a chance to maybe commentating on the games. That's another
(49:54):
issue I'll love us my travel agent to help me with.
Even though my family live up north. I'm sure I'm
sure I can find accommodation. One of my best mates
is actually the media manager for the Kangaroos. That's great,
so we will probably in the second week when we're
(50:15):
up north, well maybe even the week in London too,
we may be able to get some kangaroos to come
and have a night with us. And I mean we
probably won't get him on the drink, but you get
one saying. But Chris also is also very keen to
do a night and call it on the piss with
Chris because he's a former Curry Mail and Channel seven
(50:37):
rugby league journalist, so he's fully immersed in rugby league.
He's moved on to a different world now in his
daytime job, but he's still the Kangaroo's media officer. So
that's one thing. I've had a verbal confirmation from Terry
O'Connor and Barry McDermott, who are the two Sky TV
(50:58):
presenters and commentators over in the UK, they're going to
put a night on for us as well. So we've
got plenty, particularly up North, and there's a couple of
clubs that are keen to host us and I'm sure
we can manage that. So how can people, I mean
people know how to get hold of me Rugby League
Coach dot com dot au or at Rugby League Coach
on most socials apart from x which is at our
(51:20):
old coach on the net. There's a link on there.
Now there's a Google sheet, but they can also call
you an email you but if you want to talk
through the Google sheet with them and the email and everything.
Speaker 5 (51:34):
Yeah, so what we're going to do. If you have
interest in this, it's best at email us directly. We'll
give you all the details we have our posters and
all the all the collateral that we share with you
after the podcast. The email address though, if you would
like it now, it's it's Team t E a M
at Bourne Travel b O R M t R A
(51:54):
B e L dot com dot au. You can also
call that on one three hundred six nine eight one
three three or ship me a text or give me
a call on my mobile which is four eight zero
eight zero zero zero nine eight. All this information will
be provided so you don't need it, but it's good
to have. On the podcast as well on the Google form,
(52:15):
we will be requiring some additional information that will provide
you when when you've got some interest. So yeah, it's
mostly just your personal information so that we can lock
you into the trip and get and get you. Your
place is secured and.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
It's also important that any contact made with us, it
was no no obligation, is he I mean, can they
can get in touch with us, ask more questions and
absolutely well, just know that once you've paid two thousand
dollars you'll go into England's you on that place? Now?
My last question before I'll let you on your merry way,
(52:49):
is he going to join us?
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Mate?
Speaker 5 (52:51):
I'd love to let me get a part of the life,
but it's it's certainly something that's on the list. I'm
a big regul League regby union fan as well, but
we get over there every year for rugby union, so
it's an exciting time for regularly.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love.
Speaker 5 (53:06):
To get over and I reckon you need to hear
get through all those beers as well, so.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
We could have an England versus Australia drinking contest. I
mean yeah, that's the other thing. Too happy for families.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
To come as well.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
It's not going to be necessarily be a pistol, but
if people want to get pissed, we can certainly do
that and I am partial to a bit of that.
And of course it's my home country so well be
able to particularly when we get up north in particular,
I'll be able to tell people what to do and
where to do it because Liverpool is not far from
Manchester and Leeds and Newcastle is a couple of hours away,
(53:43):
so people can do what they want. Really, well, we're
not We're not buttlings or buildings. No beeple know what
bultings means. Over here, I'm trying to think of some
It's not a kickie tour necessarily, you know.
Speaker 5 (53:59):
And this is the thing, like we we've created and
Taylor made this whole experience with the idea that we
want to give you the freedom to pick and choose
the things that you do while on the ground, but
also have a really great set of an experience that
you're going to be able to get. If you just
booked as what you've got, there'll be nothing wrong with
what we've booked. It's an amazing itinerary with some beautiful
properties and some great inclusions. However, if there was something
(54:22):
else that you wanted to do that's separate to that,
it's a simple conversation with myself and the team and
we can we can figure out exactly what you want
to do. If you want to spend a week in
Paris and then head straight across into into London for
the for the game, absolutely fine, there's not Europe is
a big places. The world is your oyster in a sense,
and Europe is well, you can cover off in a
(54:43):
lot of different places as part of that what we
want to do.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
So sorry, I was going to say, people can upgrade
the flights if you want to through you and everything.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Is everything is an option.
Speaker 5 (54:54):
If this is this is your itinery that you can
pick and choose the things that you like and don't
like in it well to make it as good as
it can be, because there's a lot of people out
there who don't want to change it. But it's also
this is your aordinate, so we want to make sure
it's a great experience from start to finish.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Sounds good. Just go through your contact email again if
nothing else.
Speaker 5 (55:15):
Yeah, so it's team t E A M at orn
b O r M Travel t R A B e
L dot com dot au.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
Send him an email or send me an email. If
you're listening to this, you'll you'll have heard my email
forty five thousand times before, so I won't repeat it.
Thanks a lot, Phil.
Speaker 5 (55:35):
No worries, Thanks for having me Lee, and yeah, look
forward to helping you with this trip. It would be amazing.
Hello, Johnny, give us a good day mate. Gooday that
that fella who just said good eye is actually in
England and the fellaw who said hello like an Northern
Englishman is in Australia. My name is Lee Addison and
you've just heard from John Davidson. John Davidson, the intrepid Reporter,
(00:23):
as I labeled you in your absence from the last podcast.
I want to I want to apologize for the sound
quality at my end on the last podcast to everyone listening.
And the listenership has been great, John really really happy
with it, aren't we here?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
We are?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I've got a few people want to be guests, so
we should have some interesting interesting guests coming out in
the next few weeks as well.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
You're doing better than me, although I have got one
next week. I've done the interview already a fellow called
Marcus Vassalocopolis who played for Lead and he's played against
Australia twice now. His first game against the touring Kangaroos
(01:09):
was in nineteen ninety four, so some of the opposition
included Big Mal Laurie, Daily Alfi Langa etal and he
was eighteen years old and I'd played a handful of
first grade games. What were you doing at eighteen, John in.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Nineteen ninety nine when I was eighteen, I was studying
for my HSC. I don't even know if there is
a HSC anymore, and was getting into pubs in the
still city of Newcastle.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And so, I mean his story is intriguing because imagine
an eighteen year old going up against all those players
that were your absolute idols. And he talks in the
interview how he used to go down to the video
shop to get Winfield Cup games and stuff. Right anyway,
so he's played against probably one of the best Australian
sides that's ever visited our shores, even though I didn't
go through undefeated. I want to say shows, I mean
(02:00):
my original ones. And then his career, I mean, we're
not talking about a player that had a glittering career.
He played lower grade in England, so he was at
Sheffield and then huns It and then he ended up
in America. His next game against the Kangaroos was ten
years later, playing for the USA and they were twenty
(02:26):
twenty something for up at half time. So if there's
any two head spinning games that anybody can play in
against the Kangaroos. I think they're it and he also
talks about how important the Ashes are to him too.
Now in terms of getting interviews, you've got one for
us today. You've been out and about again.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, I have. I spoke to Tommy Makinson after the
Change Cap semifinal when his Callahan's team were knocked out
by a whole kr and Tommy was very good in
the sheds after the game on a number of matters,
but England being an interesting one. Just after Maddie Ashton
obviously ruled out for the year, which is a blow
(03:10):
for England. The Warrington we are and obviously with Dom
young Well relegated to reserve grade headed back to the Knights.
But you know, you'd have to say his selection maybe
not as certain as it once was, so maybe Tommy
could get a spot back in the in the England team.
He's obviously been a fantastic but I think, off the
(03:30):
top of my head, a five time Super Hig Grand
Final winger winner. As a winger, he also won a
Golden Boot I think off the top of my head
was twenty nineteen, so yeah, a veteran player and probably
someone would have been nice to see in the NRL
at some point he's correct against some interest from the Knights,
but decided to stay in the sunny shores of England.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Am I writing thinking he actually retired from international football
as well?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
You are wrong, Oh, you are wrong. I actually spoke
to him end of twenty twenty three and he said,
if my memory serves me right, he'd never retire. But
he you know, he probably obviously wouldn't be expecting or
putting himself forward. And I think at that point they
were coming up against Tonga and then obviously some last
(04:18):
year and Seann Wayne was looking to blood some younger players,
some new players in for the World Cup, which he did.
But he's never officially retired, and I think, you know,
his message is, look, if Wayney gives me a call,
I'm available. So I think he realizes. And I don't
think he's probably ever played against Australia because he sort
(04:39):
of came into the reckoning for England after the twenty
seven AM World Cup final, so I don't think he
was in that twenty seven World squad. So I don't
think he's probably ever played or may have only played
against Australia once. So the chance to play in the
first Ashes for twenty two years. I mean, if you
were a top English player, you're going to knock that back.
I mean that's a that's a great highlight that you
(05:02):
have had. So yeah, he's he's available if his country
wants him.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Now. I did have that interview scheduled him for a
bit later, but because we've talked him up so much,
I think we should drop it in now. So please
listen to John Davidson with Tommy Makinson on the international game.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I think I spoke to about eighteen months ago and
you were sort of signing England. Yeah you wouldn't You
weren't retiring, but you thought that would be Oh yeah,
Dom Jong's playing reserve grade, do you I know?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Ye, again, Don's a great player. Yeah. I think there's
some great players. Probably leave it to.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Them younger English players now, to be honest, you know
there's some great wingers, you know, with my heage now
into the mere the thirties. Yeah, I think I'd love
to play it against Australia, but it's the pinnacle of
that game.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
If England need me, I'll always been the boat. I
think there's a for sure.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
I'm just signing. You know, Maddy Ashton and Tom Johnson
get injured.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
And if any brings me lining up for the Ashes, that's.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Loving to bits and he knows what I can do.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Yeah, but you know we have our honest conversations, me
and Winnie and yeah, I think at the minute, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
You're back. I'm really look forward to.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
You didn't hear what we said then when you were
listening to the interview You're back with Lee and Johnny
on Ash's Rugby League Podcast episode four. If you like
the sounds of that dinky dyed puzzy that is the
intrepid reporter operating in the mother country. You can get
John at Johnny Y Johnny D. Davidson. So j O
(06:38):
j O H double n y D Davidson. So I'll
say that again because I butchered it at Johnny D.
Davidson that's on X and is a prolific XA. You
can also email him at journalist dot John Davidson at
gmail dot com. You can get me at Rugby League
Coach dot com dot au, and you can email me
(07:01):
Adamin at Rugby League Coach dot com dot au. If
you are listening in Australia or New Zealand or anywhere
near there, not that anyone, and not that there's many
countries near Australia, John, but you know what I'm saying.
We can fly you over. We want to fly you
over on the Rugby League Coach Ashes Tour. And if
you're thinking, oh, I can't afford that, it's going to
(07:22):
be a lot of money. Number one, it's the best
value tour you can get. Number two, you can pay
in installments and families are welcome and all that kind
of thing. English people listening to this, or anybody in Europe,
you can come on the tour, but obviously without the flights.
So if you understand French, you'll know if I say
psalms aeroplane, you know that means without the plane. So
(07:46):
you can come on. Because we're going to have a
week in Liverpool, a week in London in all the
nice hotels there. We're only going to be there for
a couple of weeks. Listen. I won't talk about that anymore,
but you can find it on Rugby leag Coach dot
com dot a you all the details and I will
add thirteen minutes of conversation at the end of this
podcast with the travel agent. So that's enough trying to
(08:09):
sell to you, even though we do have a book
as well. Just throw it in John in a few
hours as we record Origin one, Queensland hosting New South Wales.
So when people listen to this podcast it will be
after the game. From the Ashes Rugby League podcast point
(08:30):
of view, how important is this game for selection purposes?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yeah, that's a great that's a great question. I think
you know, since since the first Origin in the in
the early eighties, and you know, previously before Origin even existed,
when you so Well played Queensland, it was always a
national selection trial, wasn't it. In a way it was
it was you know, you picked the kangaroos from the
best and you so Wells and Queensland players from that
(08:56):
game less and less so this year or but it's
still massively important. I think Origin is one of the
most intense arenas, if not the most intense arenas in
rugby league. So if you can produce in Origin, you know,
the theory is you can produce in a World Cup,
you can produce in a Test match. But there are
probably more players than ever who while they're eligible for Australia,
(09:20):
they are eligible for Kangaroos and to play for you.
So I was in Queensland. They've elected to play for
countries of their heritage. So there's a number of players.
Off the top of my head, I'm going to go
maybe six, maybe seven, but maybe more. If you put
those in there, out of what the thirty four, that's
quite a lot who won't be eligible for Kangaroos. And
(09:42):
I think that's certainly pissed off melmon Inger and the
likes of Wyan Bennett, but I think it's a net
positive for the whole game.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
I think Malmoninger's got a very important job during this
Origin series, which is getting on the phone to the
likes of Homicide Taboti, fid Out, Calen Ponger. If they
play well, I'm saying, may I want you in my side?
And I think he's got to do a little bit
(10:11):
of that. He's got to pick some of them, he's
got to he's got to sort of assure people of
the jersey as much as he can without assuring them
of the jersey, because I think some of them will
edge their bets quite frankly. There's a couple of players
I'm not sure about because I just forget Tino samlu
(10:34):
He or has he already decided he's not playing for Australia.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I think he has. I think that the rumors and
the nudging has been that yeah, he'll he'll turn it
for somehow obviously has played for Australia.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah, yeah, Okay, So he's another one. I mean, I'd
be giving him a call if he plays well, because
I personally believe that he's going to have a big
impact on this Origin series. And if you're listening to
this and he was awful in the first one, please
please remember this too. More on the other side of
(11:08):
the coin, Creighton has already gone, hasn't it Stephen Crechighton
That yeah, I think that horse has bolted. Brian Tottle,
that horse has bolted. Yea one. He's another one. I'd
be on the phone too.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
I think he's the one that there's been noises for
over a year that he's gonna I like for Samoa.
So can you imagine that somewhere in front row of
Tina and Paine. That's that's a big that's a big
front I think. I think Payehss will definitely be a
big blow for the Kangaroos. I think that front row
is an issue. But then you know you mentioned Crichton
(11:43):
and the center's I mean there's there's obviously Latrell, there's
Matt Burton, there's Tommy Turbo who's not playing, Origin who's injured.
You know, there's Valentine Holmes. I think that it's interesting
when you look at the different positions you mentioned the fullback.
I think austral has probably got about eight fallbacks, but
the certain positions prop were perhaps not as strong.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Well. On that subject too, somebody with a very regal
surname has made a decision, hasn't he.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
He has the Huddersfield born, Maitland raised Max King. I
actually spoke to Max. I'm going to say it was
three years ago. I did a piece for the I
in the UK and he might have been even at
Melbourne at that point, and he was saying, you know, look,
I'd love to play for England were eligible. I was
born in England. His father comes from a great I
(12:38):
think it's four generations. He's great grandfather played first grade.
His grandfather, whose name escapes me, was one of the
members of the legendary Saint George team that won eleven
comps in a row back in the sixties and his
father played first grade as well, and his father had
a fair career in England. But he actually Max said,
(13:02):
I think a couple of months ago again tewing Wine
pick me, but he got picked from you somewhere else,
so he won't the in the asset. So that one
that was the big that was a controversial one, wasn't it,
Terrell may or Max King? And yeah, as you know,
I like to quiz you on something and I've not
prepared you for this one, but I've prepared you a bit.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Today with a few things. An English born prop who
played for Australia in the nineteen ninety four tour.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Oh I don't. Yeah, you haven't premiered me for this,
but I'm going to say I in Roberts just because
I know Ian Roberts career very well. Because he was
a legend.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, born in London, born in London. Yeah. Another one
who actually came up on my Facebook memories and as
a rest in peace this week bowls Old Fulton, the
legendary coach born in Warrington. Coach and players should have
said it is an immortal I've just player and coach
(14:10):
born in He's only the.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Most famous mainly player of all time.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Don't turn this into a Manly Seagles podcast.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
I love the fact that he was born in Warrington.
I think he moved to Wollongong when he was about three.
But there's regular and obviously coached the Kangaroos, you know,
and was a legend for the Kangaroos as a player
and as a coach. But there's numerous people on Twitter
or x who enjoy, you know, reminding me that Warrington's
Warrington's Bob Fulton, even though I think, you know, he's
(14:42):
probably more they should call they should call that the
ashes ashes of origin and of the cutoff date at
three months old, England or Great Britain would have never
lost one. I like the fact that where you're born
makes such a difference between who you can play for.
I mean, but your parents might be flying around the
(15:03):
world and on holiday, but the particular.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, or you're chased out by some war torn thing
or something like that. Yes, we had some very interesting
things when I was coach of Poland. There was as
you know, the Polish border has changed more often than
we've changed our underpants. I said that in such a
way as if we change our underpants together, but that's
never happened. But the there was one player whose grandparents
(15:39):
defined themselves as Polish, but they were actually born or
one of them was born at a time when it
was under German occupation, so the Rugby League International Federation
didn't want to clear them to play originally, so we
had to go through a few diplomatic processes to get
to do that. So anyway we we die.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
You know, Adrian Mowley's brother plays for Wales and he's
the actual link to a certain country.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
And let's go with a history lesson for everyone first
and then we'll go to a discussion point and then
we'll do another history lesson. There's been calls for the
Great Billy Boston to be knighted, so Billy Boston legendary
wing Welsh born, ended up moving up to Wigan, played
a million games for Wigan and Great Britain and Wales.
(16:31):
For those who aren't aware, there's a labor government in
England for the first time in about fourteen years, right,
fifteen sixteen years, something like that, so they tend to
be a bit more supportive of rugby league because there's
more northern MPs that have been in situ for quite
a while and the and the Wigan MP Lisa Nandy
(16:53):
has been one of the leaders of calling for Billy
Boston to be knighted. So we'd needless to say we'd
agree with that, wouldn't we, John, We would, We.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Would Now regular league players ever been nighted, which is
a bit of a joke.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Boston played thirty one games for Great Britain, was the
first player to score four tries in a game against
New Zealand. He was the first non white player to
be selected to tour Australia and New Zealand in nineteen
fifty four, on which he set a new record of
thirty six tries in eighteen games. Boston also played in
(17:27):
the nineteen sixty two tour, scoring a further twenty two tries.
So Billy Boston actually holds John the world record for
British British tries on tour. So that just shows you
how good he was. And there's many people in Wigan,
(17:49):
because I used to work there for a few years,
they think Billy Boston could have played in any era.
I don't know what you know about him, John.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yeah, I mean just a little bit of what you've
said there obviously well behind my time, but I think
the modern pilance you would say he was a freak,
just an unbelievable player, unbelievable try scorer, and yeah it
would have been a legend in any era. And I
like the fact, you know, seeing a few photos and
a few clips and it's that kind of Bobby charton look,
(18:17):
you know, the Boulding, the Boulding player. You know, if
it was fine today, he would have gone to Turkey
probably at about twenty seven and got the rugdown but.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
All shared it all off.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Yeah yeah, yeah that too and got some tax. But
just a legend and still going strong, isn't he? I think?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah? He was a Wigan the other week and they did.
He was on the screen and there was a massive
round of applause for him and he cried lovely fella too.
Now so this got me thinking John as he as
he scored the most tries on both sides of the fence.
But no in nineteen twenty one and twenty two Australian
three quarter. I'd love to know what three quarters. No
bait use those terms anymore, I know, I know Ceth
(18:58):
Blinkhorn had scored thirty tries in twenty nine matches, which
still stands as a record for most tries scored on
a Kangaroo tour. The other winger, Harold Horder hoarded the
tries and scored thirty five, and Frank Burge quite frankly
scored thirty three tries in twenty three games. So what's
(19:18):
significant there on those tours is the amount of games
they play as opposed to how many they played it
the other way. There's twenty less on this tour. There's
only three games on the tour coming up. Now what
I had to laugh when I researched this to John,
the tour also involves some degree of player misbehavior, with
(19:40):
one young footballer almost sent home from San Francisco because
of all the broken glasses following a drinking session on
board the team ship. Just in that last line, there
is so much we can unpack, so broken glasses. What
do you think would happen if Selwyn Cobbo on the
(20:03):
plane home broke some something on the plane or at
the airport broke some glasses? What do you think would happen?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Oh, he'd probably be he'd probably be fined or send home.
I mean, we can use the cricket analogy of David
Boone and whatever it was, the four thousand Cans and
he drank on an Ash's cricket tour and we love him.
He's a legend. But the times of change, haven't they?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
They have? And then another thing is it's only relatively
recently in the Ashes history that they actually flew between
these two countries. They used to travel on ships take
four weeks.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I was going to say that when you mentioned the
via San Francisco, I'd say at least in the twenties,
it probably would have been a three months journey or something,
you know, something close to six weeks. So I think
that's one of the reasons why they played four hundred
and sixty two games, because bloody longer.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Get yeah, yeah, I mean, can you imagine can you
imagine if we had we had no planes? And can
you imagine the r l P A now science like
(21:22):
they'd have to refit the boat out, weren't they to
deal with it? On the subject of the r l PA,
I you live in England, so you'll see the forty
twenty magazine that comes out in May June, I wrote
an article basically outlining reasons why England can win the
Ashes this year in twenty twenty five or using the
(21:46):
same reasons against them. And the four areas were the
r LPA, the quality of the NRL Australia depleted, and
I think we've already discussed that right so well, I think, oh,
when need to do is discourse around, in and around.
That is the impact that we'll have. And then the
other one is form and history. So let's go to
(22:07):
the r lp A first. I argue that the r
l PA are going to make life hard for Malmoninger
and I am privy to some of the conversations that
are going on, and I know there's frustration at the
same time, I know shame Sean Wayne has said is
the similar frustrations in England trying to get them together,
(22:28):
et cetera. So what say you about that as an issue?
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yeah, I think one hundred percent. But on I think
the you know, sorry being reported the r l p
A stopped and Melmoninger wanted a test against France, I
believe in Paris on the way over, so that got
kyboshed and I think any potential, you know, I think
I think there was some clubs came maybe a Wigan
or a Leeds to play a warm up game before
(22:53):
the first test. That got kiboshed as well because of
you know, player loans and that sort of thing. So
I don't think mouth too happy about that. And the
flip side, as you mentioned with Sean Wayne, he's having
no more up games. I don't think he's even having
much you know, get togethers or training sessions because of
the the fact that the players play a lot more
(23:13):
games in England and the clubs basically rule the roosts.
So I wouldn't say it's ideal preparation for either nations. No,
maybe it cancels each other out now. The other thing
is depending on when they fly over could have a
massive impact because our last discussion topic today is about
when Britain went over to Australia on a on a
short leading time and that was disastrous. The next point
(23:37):
is the quality of the NRL, and we've discussed this before.
The pros of it are that there's so many English
players in the NRL now and they could be benefit
benefiting from that. The cons from an English perspective that
win the Australians know more of their weaknesses.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
E g. Dom You again, going back to the quality
of the NRL list could benefit Australia because they're playing
higher quality football each week. Where do you sit on
the quality of the NRL barometer?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, I mean I think the quality of the NRL
remains ridiculously high, is getting higher and higher, you know.
I think I think more England players playing regularly the
NRL will only help the English national team. I think
probably this season. But you could say in recent seasons
in Super League you've got a top few clubs and
(24:35):
I mean you could argue it's only two this year,
maybe maybe three or four who are very, very far
above the rest. You know, at the moment you've got
a whole caren Wigan, who are streets ahead of everyone else.
And then you've got some clubs, one in your hometown
who's had a lot of issues in Salford pumped by
seventy two points. I think of only one one game
this year. You got Huddersfield and Castleford who also are
(24:58):
just you know, well well off the pace. So if
you think about those England international say at Wigan, at
Warrington and Leeds, they're not getting intense games week in
week out, which you are in the NRL. I mean,
there will be blowouts in the NRL, obviously, but the
overall quality is a lot higher, So every week you
have to be at your best and it's just not
(25:20):
the same in super LYUE.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
On the subject of Australia depleted, we've already talked about
how they might lose some players. My question to you
does that put more pressure on England and does it
help mal create a siege mentality with the players he's
got left.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, I think
you can look at two ways. There's no pressure on
England because they haven't won a series for fifty years,
they haven't beaten Australia as England since ninety five, and
there's Great Britain since two thousand and six. So there's
no pressure on that one and that's things. But the
flip side of that is they're at home. There's going
(26:05):
to be huge crowds, there will be pressure. There's always pressure,
and you know there's a massive who do there's a
massive gorilla on the next and yeah, you could say
look straight around as strong. You know, there's no Cameron Smith,
there's no Andrew John's, there's no group of Kronk Jonathan's
thirst and et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, a bit
of pressure on England, I would say, but you know,
I reckon now, you know he'll relish that, and you know,
(26:27):
you just wouldn't want to be the first Kangaroo team
to lose the ashes in in half a century. I
mean that that would be devastating for them, and.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
That ties me into the next point form in history,
England's form they played Tonga and Samoa, who left half
the players at home.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I think, yeah, we've got to get it. We've got
to get away from that. I think I think people
look for copy outs for why Tonga and Samoa didn't
beat England. Then I think we've got to give them
England more credit. You know, I think that's a bit harsh.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
You're just an Englishman now history in these games. I mean,
you know we've covered that before on the podcast, so
I'll direct to people to the old podcast now talking
about needing to get the travel right. Do you remember
the two thousand and two one off Test at the
(27:23):
Sydney Football Stadium.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Do you not remember it?
Speaker 3 (27:32):
May in and two? I was in my what was
I was in my third year job? I was in
my third year of studying communications at university. Yeah, probably
drunk most weekend. So no, I don't remember it, but
I read into it and it doesn't make for pretty
(27:53):
reading for the anglophiles, does it.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
It was Friday, the twelfth of July two thousand and two.
I was working at Wigan and we played Halifax on
the Sunday night. So even the even that wasn't organized
very well. The players were crammed into a mini bus.
So the Wigan players and as you imagine Wiggan back
(28:18):
then probably supplied half the side, were thrown into a minibus,
driven to Manchester Airport, flown over to Sydney Sunday night,
which is Monday morning in Australia, and they played at
the s FS on Friday. Chris Radlinsky said to me,
(28:43):
he said, after twenty minutes, I just wanted to go sleep,
because that's what my body was telling me. I'm going
to go through the side sides to help everybody. So
the score ended up, like I said, sixty four to
ten to Australia. The halftime score was thirty four nil.
(29:05):
I think he could argue the game was probably over
by then. There was thirty one eight hundred and forty
four there which is not a bad crowd, not a
bad crowd. British side, Radlinski, Johnson, Wellan Senior, Pratt Sculthorpe
at six. I remember that one being interesting, an interesting selection.
(29:30):
Ryan Sheridan at seven, Terry o'connory, you interviewed recently at
PROP Barry McDermott. His mate at Prop Kieran Cunningham. Do
you remember Kieran Cunningham. What a great hooker he was.
He was great hooker. Britain was so blessed at that
time with Kieran Cunningham and Terry Newton, like you couldn't
really split them really and they brought different things. Terry
(29:51):
Newton god rest his soul was in number sixteen on
the bench. Jamie Peacocks, Stewart Field and Andy Farrell Luck
was scrum so that was the back rope. Stuart fielding
in the back role worries me a little bit. I've
got to be honest. Still still to this day it
worries me a bit. Chris Joint, Martin Gleasee and Terry Newton,
Kevin Sinfield number fifteen Martin Gleasee and what was his
(30:13):
junior club John.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
It was in Brisbane, wasn't it in Logan.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Slacks Creek not too far from where I'm recording this
right now, And his name's on the wall there. Head
coach of Britain back then was David Waite. Full back
for Australia, Lockier, Ta Kiri and tar who on the wings.
Chris McKenna and Sean Timmins in the centers. They are
(30:43):
two names that that shocked me a little bit when
I saw them. They weren't necessarily They're not names that
just come off the tongue, are they when you think
of Yeah, I mean, I think Sean.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Timmins was a great player, some heroics. When you said, well,
you know St Georgia, Christmas Kember, I think was more
of a battler. Wasn't he from Karnala. I think he
got a few origin caps of Queensland. But yeah, you
would have probably had a maybe a giddy wasn't fit
or trying to think he was another top so but
Shawn tim In a yeah, yeah, a bit of a surprise.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Trent Barrett and Andrew Johns are mean. As much as
Trent Barrett can't coach a pig to be dirty, he
was an excellent he was. He was an excellent footballer,
excellent player. Saint Greg's boy as well, and that Joey
John's went okay to the props were Shane Webke and
Jason Ryles. Danny Badeiris was hooker. What a great hooker.
He was great hooky.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Okay from school, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
You need to hear these things clear, John before he
started from my school. Gordon tallis Steve Simpson. I've got
to be honest, I can't remember Steve Simpson.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
That's that's an outrighte. He was a legend for the Nights.
He was Anthony who was everywhere, tackling machine. Following in
two thousand and one. Part of that baderas John's You
look at that, there's a lot of a lot of
Knights players there, Tahoo, John's Adiris Simpson.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, and it must be good to keep Steve Menzes
on the bench. So Scott Hill lot with scrumm I
remember him. Brent Tate on the bench. I mean, that's
that shocks me, compared to Timmins and McKenna starting in.
Tate being on the bench shocked me. Maybe they went
out drinking that week or something. Willie Mason on the
(32:34):
bench and Jason Stevens Chris Anderson was the coach. Now,
I don't know about you. When you were doing your research?
What what? What? What made me giggle and reminisce and
everything was some of the comments from the media. Right,
So the game Saturday morning newspapers in Australia proclaimed the
(32:57):
death of the worldwide game? How many times we heard that?
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Dan Rookwood in the Guardian do you
know Dan? Because you right Guardian? Now he took his
job at last. It's all over. The Australians dominated in
every part of the game, but for a momentary lapse
from them early in the second half when Great Britain
(33:23):
sneaked to schools. They taught their visitors a humbling lead
league lesson like a road accident. It was horrible to watch,
but you couldn't take your eyes off.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
It's a great line, isn't it that You gotta give
down some credit that is as a wonderful one.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Do you think do you think the journalists could be
writing similar things this year? Do you think they'll they'll
they'll write with such a passion?
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Well, I would say over here we don't have many
journalists with that kind of skill or word mastery.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
But this is only two thousand and two, not nineteen
fifty two. As well, this is what.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I like.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
I like Ray French's use of of Shakespeare. Was I
mean a Ray French was a teacher, Wasn't he so
a smart blake? But yeah, there's some great there's some
great lines. I think everyone's proud of her. But when
when you get smashed, everyone's proud a bit of hyperbole,
aren't they.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
So so for those who are wondering what he said
about Shakespeare's Great Britain coat, I'll try and do it
in his voice. Oh now, then Great Britain coach David
Waite might well recall well Shakespeare's monarch Richard the Third
and his cries for a horse when all was not
going well on the battle field. Oh and then he
(34:48):
goes though, this is this is interesting. The Lions boss
may well put out such a cry for a winger,
a center or any midfield back with a smattering of
attacking flair, and then he has to go with the
coaching in Super League. So none of these have looked
at the flight, the fact that they came over five
minutes before the game. Yeah, on the other side of
(35:08):
the world. Managine some of them are writing like their
jet lag too. They're probably the emotional one, right. And
he talked about great Britain fielding at fullback, Paul Wellens,
sorry Paul Wellens was in the center, but he's a fullback,
Paul Johnson, who's a center being on the wing, a
center hooker or half back, Cal Pratt being on the wing,
(35:31):
a lock loose forward being at standoff five eight, a
lock or loose forward Kevin Sinfield being in both half
back positions, and a center Martin Gleaton on the wing.
And then you really criticized. Now I want to bring
that up because everyone's gonna know the answer to this
by the time they listen to this. But I think
(35:51):
your state are making a massive error playing Mitchell Moses
at six. He's not played there for ten years.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I mean, it's one of the controversial or debatable shall
we say, picks is is Moses. So the Leui isn't
it because Leui is a I know he's playing seven
for the Tigers now, but he is a six. He's
got that partnership with Nathan Cleary from I don't know,
bloody decade and he was fantastic for you so well
(36:20):
was last year, while Moses was also fantastic. But yeah,
it's an interesting one. Look as someone from the Blue State,
I hope it pays off. But that seems to be
a common thing, and you know, we saw it in
this game. In REP games, particularly Australian teams, you just
basically get the best players and you try and fit
them in, don't you. I mean Latrell Mitchell has played center,
(36:42):
but he plays fullback. Now there's numerous you know, the
Hammer pretty much has played across the back line, fallback center.
You do try and fit players in and sometimes it
works and sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Old coach Morris Bamford, who actually died at a similar
date as Bobby Fulton, actually just a few years before him.
Britain's dreadful performance left me humiliated and embarrassed. Weight must
do the decent thing and go, said Banford. We were
very poor in Sydney. The tactics were all wrong and
wait has no excuses, he has to go. The way
(37:18):
we played angered and annoyed me. It's proved we are
not as good as we've been led to believe. And
I don't know where we go from here, and he
also had a pop at the selections in terms of
picking not picking specialists. So everyone's crying quite significantly. Here
(37:39):
there was another comment I want, oh, Gary Scholfield, you'll
be he's still doing this called for a ban on
Australian players in the Tetleys Super League. We should implement
an international band that used to happen in the seventies.
So one of the reasons make Stevenson never played that
much for great Or England after a while was that
(38:02):
because he went to Australia it was banned. Also, it's
happened the other way as well. We stopped Australians coming over.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
And I think if you look at the history, I
think both nations would say that was a mistake.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yes, yeah, I mean that goes back to our conversation
about the NRL players, the English NRL players, whether it
benefits them or hinder them, or hinders them. Andrew John's
sparks and eleven try route having handing eight of them
and converting all but one for a twenty point personal
(38:37):
Hall and Shane Webb, William Mason fall back down, unlock
you were some of the best players Great Britain missed
twenty second, twenty seven tackles in the first half, and
Australia were out of sight after half an hour. I
can't believe you can't remember this.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
And I'm lucky to remember my name where name, tag?
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Were you were? You were you a big rugby league
person back then?
Speaker 3 (39:06):
I was a big rugby league person. I must admit, like,
apart from the occasional big Ashes games in the nineties
or the internationals, I didn't follow the international games closely
as I do now. And I think that's part of
it is in Australia it probably didn't have particularly in
the two thousands or a post Super League war. It
(39:27):
didn't have the same coverage or the same interest or
the same kind of mystique around. And I think it
was you know, it was seen and probably a lot
of Ozzie fans still seen that the Kangaroos turn up,
they win and that's it and obviously this result doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yeah, I remember seeing the empty seats and again I
think you're you're a metaphor for this. You probably didn't
care that much about international Yeah, it was probably more origin.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
It was one hundred percent. I mean, I can remember
a kid in primary school when early nineties particularly, I
remember that ninety two to ninety four Tim Shen's team.
You know, you're you're with your mates on the on
the field and you're pretending to be you know, Laurie
Daley or Bradley Kyde and that was the That was
the big That was the big thing. That was like that.
(40:16):
And I think one of the things that would help
the Astra series going forward is in England or a
great Britain win, wouldn't it because nobody likes to lose,
and that it was the fire even greater.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Now we've mentioned Origin, so we're going to close this
podcast off with your Origin one prediction, which is when
most people are listening to this, they'll know the answer
to it. So what is your origin one prediction? John?
Mine is Queensland by eighteen.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Yeah. I mean I wrote a preview yesterday on Patreon
that people can read and my heart will always say
you soth Wales, and I think if you're on paper,
they've got a better team. But Origin always points out
it's in some up que missed a few players. I'd
take Queensland by eight Okay.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
There you go. We're both tipping Queensland and we might
have egg on our face when people are listening to
this hopefully rugbyley Coach dot com dot au for me, Johnny,
your your Twitter again, Johnnyson.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Davidson and you can get me on Patreon at Rugby
League at hub dot com, long Reads.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
There you go. Now, it'd be good to see you again, John.
But because of the blistering UK sunshine, even though you've
put the blind down, it looks like you're going to
be beamed up to the Lord Almighty very soon. So
if I don't see you again, I'll see you up
there obviously.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
You will.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Take care of mates. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
I'm just here with mister Philip Ray. Do we call
you Philip or phil Is? Is it Philip on a Sunday?
Speaker 3 (42:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (42:03):
Philip by my mum, but yeah it feels good.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Phil is the boss of Born Travel and I have
been liaising with Phil to put on a very big trip.
You can do the honors, Philip. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (42:23):
I've been working with League exclusively the last six weeks
or so filling out a very exciting trip for all
the listeners on the podcast. Will be taking quite a
few people over to the UK for the Ashes test.
Now I believe it's the first Ashes Test for rugby
league played in the UK since two thousand and three,
(42:46):
Is that wrong?
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Two thousand and three?
Speaker 5 (42:48):
Yeah, so so yeah, good couple decades since we've been
over there.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Definitely the most eagerly anticipated international series in rugby league
for a long time, and if you ask English people
in particular, it's the most anticipated series full stop. So
the I will go in at this juncture and say
that we've got tickets for the first two tests, but
(43:15):
that was my part of the deal. I've also got
some very firm arrangements with several identities in British rugby league.
There'll be numerous little visits to clubs if people want
to do that as well, and as certainly if we
(43:35):
have some coaches who come with us, we can certainly
work out some best practice sharing and sessions with English
coaches and whatnot. So that's the rugby league stuff, I suppose.
So the first two tests, the one at Wembley and
the one at Everton. If people are wondering why there's
no headingly testing there, honestly nineteen thousand seats or something
(43:59):
like that, Phil and He sold out in about three hours,
so there was no channel there was bockless chance of
getting tickets for that. Yeah, and the trip. Everyone will
be back in Australia anyway too, or New Zealand or
wherever they're coming from. They'll be back to watch the
Third Test anyway. Just in case people switch off from
(44:21):
this podcast because they don't want to listen to the detail.
Philm some of the trip up in one minute.
Speaker 5 (44:28):
So what we've got, We've got you flying from anywhere
in Australia. We've got the group. It will be officially
departing from Sydney, but we can link you up to
connect through Sydney flying Emirates through Dubai with a short
connection flying it into London. From there you'll be picked up.
You'll be driven all the way through to a stunning
property in South Kensington. Minute walks to the Natural History Museum,
(44:50):
easy access to get into central London. We've also included
two private tours for you. One will take you through
to the pubs of London and also to the streets
of London, so you get to get a bit a
bit of history, a bit of background and a couple
of plants as well. So after that we'll be then
going to Wembley on Saturday, the twenty fifth of October
I believe the date is, and we'll be flying into
(45:11):
London on the morning of the twentieth, so you have
one full week in London as well as a couple
of activities to fill you in. From there, we'll be
driving you all the way up to Liverpool, where we've
got again some absolutely stunning properties in the heart of Liverpool.
We've got a trip out to the Lakes District included
as which is in northern England, as well as a
Beatles tour which you give you a bit of history
(45:32):
around the Beatles, which is Liverpool's where they came from.
Plenty of other things to do around Liverpool. But also
on the first of November, we'll be going to Everton
Stadium and watching the Second Test. We've got the last
few seats for that as well, and we've pretty much
sold taken those last few. You'll be flying out of
(45:54):
Manchester and it includes all your transportation from Manchester as
well to Manchester Airport again with Emirates with the short
connections through Dubai find back into Sydney on the third
of November. So the whole trip is about two weeks.
Everything is taken care of except for some meals. But
you've got all your accommodation, you transport, all your some
tours in both London and in Liverpool, and all your
(46:16):
airfas as well.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
I haven't got the ghost to tell you went well
over a minute then, because that was such a good overview.
I think the key thing I want to get across
at this juncture, and you will be able to add
a bit more flavor to this. I asked you to
(46:40):
come up with a trip where the customers, the travelers,
weren't locked into having to do something. But we're doing
this tomorrow, we're doing this in the afternoon, We're doing this.
I wanted it to be very flexible and we've achieved that,
haven't we Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (46:58):
So you've had the tours go through two three hours
in a day. You're not going to be taking much
of your time up.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
So they don't have to go, do they They don't
have to go on those tours.
Speaker 5 (47:07):
No, they're optional, they're included and it's just something for
you to give you some ideas if you knew to London.
But you've got five days, six six full days in London,
six full days in Liverpool where there's some activities planned,
but you can take that as much as you like.
You can do as much or as little as you want,
and I'm here to help with that. As well born
travel we specialize in luxury, high touch experiences and travel
(47:31):
travel arrangements. So anything that isn't on the list that
you wanted some assistance with, that's just the conversation that
you have with myself and.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
The team hit them with the price.
Speaker 5 (47:42):
This is the best bit. So all of that. Even
just if you said two weeks in London, not including
all of those things and flights for six and a
half grand per person, you'd be screaming at it. It
is six and a half thousand per person, including all
of the flights, all of your transport on the ground,
all of the tickets to the games, all of the accommodation,
all of the activities, and some meals both in all
(48:04):
destinations as well, for six and a half thousand per person.
Now that is based on twin share. If you are
a single traveler, we can and you don't mind sharing,
we can match you up with individuals that also wouldn't
mind sharing. That would be But if you just want
your own room, your own privacy the whole way through.
You're looking at about nine and a half a strained
dollars per person, So six and a half if you
(48:24):
come in as a two per person you get in
private room, then everything is all for you, or nine
and a half if you were to go as a
single traveler. If you did want to share, then just
let us know. We'll work through it and we'll work
with you on it as well.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
No unbelievable deal. Now non defuntion, well, a non refundable
deposit is two thousand dollars. We will work with people
who want to pay installments and things like that, won't
we just we have to be strict in terms of
certain time scales. Can you paint a little bit of
a picture for that for people.
Speaker 5 (48:57):
Of course, So just when you know that you're happy
to go, US is available at the moment, it is
based on sales, but we are looking at a two
thousand dollars deposit. That's all we need to secure that
your place on the tour and that would lock in
all of your flights, all the things I've mentioned, absolutely everything.
So from that, if you what we would need is
(49:17):
then final payments won't be until the thirtieth of August,
so you've got you've got three months where you can
slowly chip away at the toital balance, or you can
keep it in your account and pay the balance at
your convenience. As long as it's all paid for by then,
then we're all happy to go. That's that's all I need.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
Brilliant the bits that I can add on right. So
of course, first of all, if there's any coaches out
there listening to this and you want to do some
coaching with me while we're over there, I cansult that,
no problem. I will probably have to do with the
odd seminar or something like that over there, and there's
a chance to maybe commentating on the games. That's another
(49:54):
issue I'll love us my travel agent to help me with.
Even though my family live up north. I'm sure I'm
sure I can find accommodation. One of my best mates
is actually the media manager for the Kangaroos. That's great,
so we will probably in the second week when we're
(50:15):
up north, well maybe even the week in London too,
we may be able to get some kangaroos to come
and have a night with us. And I mean we
probably won't get him on the drink, but you get
one saying. But Chris also is also very keen to
do a night and call it on the piss with
Chris because he's a former Curry Mail and Channel seven
(50:37):
rugby league journalist, so he's fully immersed in rugby league.
He's moved on to a different world now in his
daytime job, but he's still the Kangaroo's media officer. So
that's one thing. I've had a verbal confirmation from Terry
O'Connor and Barry McDermott, who are the two Sky TV
(50:58):
presenters and commentators over in the UK, they're going to
put a night on for us as well. So we've
got plenty, particularly up North, and there's a couple of
clubs that are keen to host us and I'm sure
we can manage that. So how can people, I mean
people know how to get hold of me Rugby League
Coach dot com dot au or at Rugby League Coach
on most socials apart from x which is at our
(51:20):
old coach on the net. There's a link on there.
Now there's a Google sheet, but they can also call
you an email you but if you want to talk
through the Google sheet with them and the email and everything.
Speaker 5 (51:34):
Yeah, so what we're going to do. If you have
interest in this, it's best at email us directly. We'll
give you all the details we have our posters and
all the all the collateral that we share with you
after the podcast. The email address though, if you would
like it now, it's it's Team t E a M
at Bourne Travel b O R M t R A
(51:54):
B e L dot com dot au. You can also
call that on one three hundred six nine eight one
three three or ship me a text or give me
a call on my mobile which is four eight zero
eight zero zero zero nine eight. All this information will
be provided so you don't need it, but it's good
to have. On the podcast as well on the Google form,
(52:15):
we will be requiring some additional information that will provide
you when when you've got some interest. So yeah, it's
mostly just your personal information so that we can lock
you into the trip and get and get you. Your
place is secured and.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
It's also important that any contact made with us, it
was no no obligation, is he I mean, can they
can get in touch with us, ask more questions and
absolutely well, just know that once you've paid two thousand
dollars you'll go into England's you on that place? Now?
My last question before I'll let you on your merry way,
(52:49):
is he going to join us?
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Mate?
Speaker 5 (52:51):
I'd love to let me get a part of the life,
but it's it's certainly something that's on the list. I'm
a big regul League regby union fan as well, but
we get over there every year for rugby union, so
it's an exciting time for regularly.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love.
Speaker 5 (53:06):
To get over and I reckon you need to hear
get through all those beers as well, so.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
We could have an England versus Australia drinking contest. I
mean yeah, that's the other thing. Too happy for families.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
To come as well.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
It's not going to be necessarily be a pistol, but
if people want to get pissed, we can certainly do
that and I am partial to a bit of that.
And of course it's my home country so well be
able to particularly when we get up north in particular,
I'll be able to tell people what to do and
where to do it because Liverpool is not far from
Manchester and Leeds and Newcastle is a couple of hours away,
(53:43):
so people can do what they want. Really, well, we're
not We're not buttlings or buildings. No beeple know what
bultings means. Over here, I'm trying to think of some
It's not a kickie tour necessarily, you know.
Speaker 5 (53:59):
And this is the thing, like we we've created and
Taylor made this whole experience with the idea that we
want to give you the freedom to pick and choose
the things that you do while on the ground, but
also have a really great set of an experience that
you're going to be able to get. If you just
booked as what you've got, there'll be nothing wrong with
what we've booked. It's an amazing itinerary with some beautiful
properties and some great inclusions. However, if there was something
(54:22):
else that you wanted to do that's separate to that,
it's a simple conversation with myself and the team and
we can we can figure out exactly what you want
to do. If you want to spend a week in
Paris and then head straight across into into London for
the for the game, absolutely fine, there's not Europe is
a big places. The world is your oyster in a sense,
and Europe is well, you can cover off in a
(54:43):
lot of different places as part of that what we
want to do.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
So sorry, I was going to say, people can upgrade
the flights if you want to through you and everything.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Is everything is an option.
Speaker 5 (54:54):
If this is this is your itinery that you can
pick and choose the things that you like and don't
like in it well to make it as good as
it can be, because there's a lot of people out
there who don't want to change it. But it's also
this is your aordinate, so we want to make sure
it's a great experience from start to finish.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
Sounds good. Just go through your contact email again if
nothing else.
Speaker 5 (55:15):
Yeah, so it's team t E A M at orn
b O r M Travel t R A B e
L dot com dot au.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
Send him an email or send me an email. If
you're listening to this, you'll you'll have heard my email
forty five thousand times before, so I won't repeat it.
Thanks a lot, Phil.
Speaker 5 (55:35):
No worries, Thanks for having me Lee, and yeah, look
forward to helping you with this trip. It would be amazing.
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