Ashes Rugby League Podcast Episode Seven

Ashes Rugby League preparations in Australia and England are not proving easy.

Join Lee Addison and John Davidson for analysis, news, interviews with guests, history lessons and lots more every fortnight to help whet your appetite for the 2025 series between England and Australia!Ashes Rugby League is a podcast dedicated to previewing the most anticipated international series in two decades! 


Lee is an Englishman who has coached at NRL clubs and lived in Australia a LONG time. John is an Australian journalist based in the UK for many a year!

You can find and reach out to Lee at rugbyleaguecoach.com.au and John on X at @johnnyddavidson 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Good morning or evening, depending on where you are. My
name is Lee Addison and I'm John Davidson. This is
the Ashes Rugby League Podcast, Episode seven Each fortnite, joined
myself and John Ford analysis, news, interviews with guests, history,
lessons and lots more to help wet your appetite for
the twenty twenty five series between England and Australia. I'm

(00:24):
an Englishman who's coached at ten r L clubs and
lived in Australia a long time. And John, I've decided
I won't talk for you this week. Who are you?

Speaker 2 (00:34):
I'm a rugby league journalist who's been covering a game
for about fifteen years, World Cups, Super League, Las Vegas,
Challenge Cups, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
And listening to that voice you're not quite born and
raised in Sheffield.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
No, I'm from the Hannah Valley, from the still city
of Newcastle in New South Wales.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
How old were you when you moved to England first time?

Speaker 2 (01:00):
I moved in two thousand and three when I was
twenty two, lived Atlanta for two years and then went
back to the Southern Hemisphere and then moved back in
twenty thirteen. To Sey Yorkshire.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
So which team will you be cheering for in the
ashes this year? That's the key question.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
I'll be I will be cheering for Rugular League.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
I hope you can get me at Rugby League Coach
dot com dot au. I'm a rugby league coach who's
been doing this, that and the other over many years.
Or you can email me admin at Rugby League Coach
dot com dot au. I consult for clubs and coaches
now and mental clubs and coaches. You can get Johnny
at Johnny d Davidson on x or you can email

(01:51):
him journalist dot John Davidson at gmail dot com. John,
I am concerned about your wellbeing because this is a
second podcast you've actually fronted in success.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, it's just so much to talk about it when
it comes to ashes in international rugby league, isn't it.
So I couldn't miss this opportunity.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
And I'm doing the morning stint this time. Can you
hear the birds tweeting in the background, or I've got
my morning coffee. Normally you're doing the morning and I'm
doing the afternoon evening. And I had to find it
easier at this time of the morning to record because
when I record with you, normally, I'm going through that.
You know that three o'clock so a dip you have
in the afternoon when your mud sugar is low over that,

(02:32):
I'm normally going through that. So I don't normally talk
with a bit of a plub in my mouth. It's
just that I found. I found that when I do podcasts,
some people literally can't understand my normal sulfed accent when
I talk like that all the time. So I've got
to try and pronounce my words a little bit more,
a little bit more proper English.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
John, That is the problem with the English, particularly in
the North. Ladies invented the language, but they struggle to
speak it in a way that people can understand.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
It's too true. And the other thing is the AI
I used to chop up the clips. Can you imagine
hit trying to detect my original accent.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Well, I think they'll struggle to detect your right French
with on Sunday.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Just is obviously listening to
this podcast. Now, if you want to go to the Ashes,
if you're in the Southern Hemisphere, or indeed in the
Northern Hemisphere, if you want to go to the Ashes.
I'm doing a rugby league, so you don't worry if
you're not cash rich, you can paign installments. All we
need is a deposit to book your place, et cetera.
So for example, if people are listening in England, John,

(03:47):
or in Europe, they can just come and come on
in the hotels or come to the games. Also just
get in such a rugby league coach on social media
or admin at Rugby league coach dot com dot au.
And if you really haven't got the money to do that,
maybe try and buy a product from Rugby League Coach
dot com dot au forward slash shop and you'd be

(04:08):
entered into a draw to win a place to the Ashes.
Can you imagine that for somebody living in Australia.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
It'd be a Apparently it's it's your share out the
whole tour every three tests.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Not while we're in London. The prices are two ex
just a couple of just a couple of tipbits before
we get into the main beef of this podcast, because
there's loads of used to get through. John. Remember the
last time I was talking about the Leeds Bettinson book
in the lines Den and I just said that there
was a few things I needed to add. Yes, because

(04:45):
for those who didn't listen to the last podcaster, I
fact because I'm a rugby league geek. I found, particularly
an Ashes rugby league geek. I found an old book
from nineteen ninety from the old Great Britain Manager about
Great Britain's Rugby League revived all in inverted commas and
it documented everything that happened between nineteen eighty four and
nineteen ninety basically, and it was interesting to bring into

(05:10):
this podcast because of the old fashioned ways of doing things.
So again I'll hit you with these. Can you imagine
Sean Wayne at the meeting in Manchester recently, or in
the sheds or in the team meetings quoting Nelson's speech
at Trafalgar or Churchill's Battle of Britain speech, because this

(05:32):
is what happened in nineteen eighty six courtesy of Morris Banford.
In the book he talks about closing down the options
of Wally Lewis and Peter Sterling in the Australian side.
In the Australian side, so do you think there'll be
similar conversations happening in the English dressing rooms about say,
Cameron Munster and Nathan Cleary.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
I think they probably will, but I didn't have much success,
and not only six did they? No, wasn't it yeah?

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, it was yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Now the other
thing that happened then is they ever every year they
had two matches against France, one at home and one away. Now,
as you know, I'd like to surprise you John with
something every week every fortnight. Sorry. When is the last

(06:26):
time France beat Australia in a rugby league game?

Speaker 2 (06:32):
I think was it in the seventies.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
It was because because as we'll see when we talk
about the ninety four tour soon, they used to come
over to Britain and then go to France, didn't they.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
So yeah, yeah, Well, interestingly in this tour, well, when
he was still coach, Malmninger wanted a he won a
game against France in Paris before the series warm out
in the r P. I yeah, it was it nine
in seventy two.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
A bit later than that, nineteen seventy eight, eight, the
tenth of December nineteen seventy eight, and my French mate
Pierre was at the game. Pierre van dom Hello, Pierre,
if you're listening, And he said to me and I
won't try his accent, but he said to me that
literally the ref blue that pee out of the whistle

(07:21):
and gave penalties galore to France.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
So I've heard a few strying players even in more
recent times, talk about playing in France and how the
referee was always particularly a bias towards the time.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
I've played for Great Britain students a couple of times
in France and a couple of their tricks, and I
was with the USA in France too, and one of
their tricks was to stay kick off. Oh sorry, we
started seven, We start seven, and so we got warmed
up and ready by seven you imagine for a test

(07:57):
match at that level. And then the French boys just
walked in with their bags and tracksuits about holding their
bags and tracksuits and with their tracksuits on, and they go, no, no, no,
we arrived seven, game start eight, all right. So that's
one trick. Number two is no proper toilets in the

(08:18):
changing room, just a hole in the ground. That was
in the nineties. So you had to squat most players
pre match like tom to them to the bowels, and
so they had to squat right down to the level
of a coke can if you like to get the
job done. So that's not great preparation for a game.

(08:40):
Another classic is to give you the wrong directions to
a training ground or to a to a match, to delayer.
That's a bit harder in the days of GPS, obviously,
but I when we were with the USA in France
in to lose, they sent our bus down a street

(09:01):
that was about as wide as my computer screen and
we literally all had to get out and pick up
a like literally just move a car a few inches.
So if you imagine thirty blokes and one female physico
like we had, we had to move this car maybe
three or four inches to get the coach through. So yeah,

(09:24):
a a in a street that was built in sixteen
eighty two, and then the Golden one is back back
to ninety ninety eight. It was so this was only
twenty years after Australia were shafted in that test match.
We were on the comeback trail. So after being warmed

(09:45):
up for a game we thought it started at seven,
That started at eight, and then the first half we
got blown off the park. In the second half we
were coming back and they just pulled the game up
seven minutes short and said game will the game, and
then it was all of a sudden the ref who
seemed to have decent English all the way through to officiate,

(10:08):
met me no speaker to English. We're seven minutes ago
that over finish, So yeah, very much. Can I imagine
what happened on the tenth of December nineteen seventy eight
and what will say then? That means that, even though
I am an old relic these days, France have never

(10:31):
beaten Australia in my lifetime in any game.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, and I don't think they've beaten Ing or Great
Britain since I'm going to I think it's about ninety
or early nineties. I think.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Anyway, God be careful. This isn't about the French, French
Agulo and French Antipodean relations. On the eighty eight tour,
Andy Goodway, who was a future coach, pulled out of
the eighty eight tour because of business interest. He wanted
to run a restaurant and that restaurant flopped. Can you
imagine players pulling out now for business interests. There was

(11:11):
a brawl at Witness eight days before the team left
in nineteen eighty eight. Winger Dez Drummond was involved in
an incident with a spectator. It was an alleged racist
remark that he reacted to, and Joe Lyden had a
similar problem at a different game at the same weekend.
Now bring us to twenty twenty five. Can you imagine

(11:33):
at two different grounds in the Super League they're being
two massive fights and England are preparing to tour Australia. Oh,
let's flip it round the NRL is two massive fights
in round twenty six of the NRL, including one of

(11:54):
the players punching on with somebody in the crowd. What
would the NRL do? Now?

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, I mean there was a there was a guy
who ran on the pitch and tried to attack Jack
Connor and whole kr on on Sunday and a few
So it's not it's not as far fits as you
would think.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
This is just a problem with British society. I think.
So this is just this is just us helping the
Ausies to get scared about when they step on the
field at Wembley Everton and.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Headingly.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Isn't it the cauldron that they will arrive in? So
there's Drummond refused to play again because there were a
band from going on Talk, so there's Drummond who was
a great player, refused to play for Great Britain. After that,
the trip went from London to Sydney via Bombay and
then Singapore. Now you can get a direct flight guard

(12:48):
you between London and Perth. So yeah, things have changed
a bit, Johnny. So there's a little bit of a
nostalgia trip there and we'll do some more nostalgia as
as as we wrap up this podcast. Also we had
a discussion John you wanted to delay the podcast twenty
four hours and I pulled Rank as the presenter. My

(13:10):
ego took over. I said, I'm the presenter, John, you
be quiet. You're the roving journalists. I'm the editor here.
We're doing it before origin to put our predictions on record.
We're a matter of hours away from origin. Three. Queensland
versus New South Wales or should I say New South
Wales versus Queensland because it's in Sydney. So my question

(13:32):
to you is how many in New South Wales going
to flog Queensland?

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Buy well? I hope that is the case of just
a bit. I'm a bit wary of this. Queens Then underdog.
They've picked another bolt, another deputn't Josh Papali back for
his farewell game and obviously not making a lot of
this at all, the sad news about kne Monster's dad,

(13:55):
so there'll be a lot of emotion behind queens then
obviously in in Sydney the game. So I don't know,
you can just can't ride off Queensland in Origin, even
though I think you have the better team. They've you know,
they've they've they've got a better forward pack and they've
dominated in that area in yardage and post contact, made
us in both the games. As long as Weel's discipline

(14:16):
isn't as bad as the second game, they should win.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
But I dare say, Sean Wayne, I got it right
straight away. Then I didn't call him Shane Warn. I
dare say shot. It's because him in the morning, mate,
It's not my three o'clock sugar problems. He should have
visited Queensland camp over the last few years to study
how Queensland managed to beat New South Wales so often,

(14:41):
because even though there's a lot less players play rugby
league in Queensland, the New South Wales Queensland have actually
dominated the Origin series and the history of the concept. Now, yeah,
one of the one of the excuses British people use
for not beating Australia is well, there's so many more
people play rugby league in Australia, yet we seem to

(15:05):
have had some kind of mental block since nineteen seventy
and on home soil since nineteen fifty nine.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
There are more people playing. Argument doesn't really work when
you just look at other sports. You know, there's more
people playing soccer in China than there is in you know,
Argentina or England. There's more people who played rugby union
in England than there is in New Zealand. But it
doesn't stop the All Blacks, you know, being at the

(15:35):
top for decades. So it's more what you do with
the talent you have, not necessarily pure numbers.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
British rugby league legend and West Tigers sorry West and
Balmain Tiger's legend. Garret Scholfield has recently arrived in Australia
for his sixtieth birthday and I wonder why he doesn't
move to Australia because he has gone down an absolute
treat with the public. There's people coming to me and

(16:07):
saying Lee did you listen to Gary Scholfield on this
show the other day that pon me, guy, how good
is he?

Speaker 2 (16:13):
I don't anymore? Man, his hes already, you know when
he leaves the country.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
And the quick sort of tipmit I want to throw
around here is he's come to Australia and the discourse
has allowed for him to unleash yet in England. And
again I've been involved with players in the in the

(16:41):
game in England at a high level, particularly two decades ago,
and they couldn't hack him at all. And why do
you think that is?

Speaker 2 (16:53):
I think I think there's a few parts of it.
I think, you know, personally, I've always gone on with Scoey,
you know, I've got a good relationship with him, and
he was obviously a legendary player. But I think he
does rob rub should I say, some people up the
wrong way? You know, he is very forth right, very

(17:13):
tells it like it is, and that doesn't go you know,
rugular league in the UK is a very tiny sport.
Everyone knows each other and there's not really many outspoken people.
So I think that's one moment. I think he's probably made,
you know, some comments which are about women's regular league
in the past, which weren't perhapsolutely the greatest, So you know,

(17:33):
I think there's an element of that. But yeah, he's
he's certainly a mom might figure, I would say, But look,
I think what he did in the sport, I think
he's the record great Britain Cup holder, isn't he. You know,
he deserves he deserves respects and he deserves to be
listened to.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Look the way he talks to the media and the
messages he delivers, it's like he doesn't care about friendships
over the truth in his mind, which reminds me of
somebody else who I'm actually recording a podcast with now,

(18:15):
and I think, oh, I'm probably I'm the same too, right, So,
and I think, tell me if I'm wrong. But your
journalistic creed is to follow your journalistic creed as opposed
to keep too many people happy. I know you've ignited

(18:36):
the ire of quite a few people through your journalistic career.
Let's have a little chat about dialogue and discourse in
both countries, and the dialogue and discourse in English rugby

(18:56):
league versus the discourse in Australian rugby league, because you've
tweeted about that recently too.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, I mean they're completely different. I mean, obviously I've
been in the UK now for twelve years and having
grown up in Australia and being a fan of Australian
rugby league, and you know, in a in a country
where or in a city where the media is dominated
by rugby league, you know, it's front page, back page,
TV news importers. It's much like to say Premier League

(19:25):
is in the UK. You know, the debate is face,
it's hotly contested, you know, the narratives are out. There's
there's always controversy, there's always crisis, you know, and it's
it's it's a big talking point for you know, across
all levels of society in England. Rugby league just isn't that.
And I think because it's such a small sport, particularly

(19:48):
people on the media, they're saying, you know, we can't
talk the sport down, we can't pour it out faults
or issues or bad things are happening because we need to.
We need to promote it, we need to talk it up,
we need to be cheer leaders. And that's kind of
the community that's there. But for me, and obviously I
love rugby league, you're not helping the sport by doing that,

(20:10):
by looking the other way, by ignoring things that are
wrong or not calling them out. You know, the kind
of ethics as of journalism are much more important than
you know, being a cheerleader and putting out your pom
poms as a as a writer or a pundit or
as a journalist. So that's for me, and you know,
I've written about lots of other sports. That's the same.

(20:31):
You call it as you see it. You try and
be fair and balanced obviously, but you be honest as well.
And you know sometimes most times a lot of people
don't like the truth or you know, it's a very
rugby league is a very tribal game, and people get
particularly in this current era that we are in. You

(20:51):
look at social media, they get very fired up and
upset and abusive as well. But it's just how it is.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
Our good friend Chris he wrote for many years, and
he said he actually preferred writing in the crime world
because if somebody's murdered someone or burgled something, they're going
away to jail. You can say what you want about them.
Really you don't need them again, Whereas if a frontline

(21:22):
NRL player snorts a line of coke and you've got
the footage and you might actually need that player for
an interview five times.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
It is. It is difficult, and you have to weigh
up relationships and all those sorts of things. But at
the end of the day, you know, and you have
to do you do have to criticize people, but it's
never you know, well, it's very rarely personal. And you know,
I've had people threatened to assume me. I've had you know,
numerous you know, abusive phone calls, whatever, I've even you know,

(21:54):
I've even been physically attacked. You know, most people you
can sit down and chat to and explain things, and
you know, yeah, you just basically you you know, you
don't do you you don't do right or say anything
that you wouldn't you know, that would keep you up
at night. I think that's that's the sort of the creed.
And you, you know, you look to present the truth

(22:16):
and be as fair as possible. You know, everyone makes mistakes,
and I've definitely written things that probably are regretted or
made comments are regretted, but you when it happens, you
hold your hand up and you you know, you apologize
and you you try and do better. As you as
you go on.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Well, the pen, they say, is mightier than the sword,
so let's see what your pen has done recently about
the ashes. So regarding the fallout from England squad, because
England have announced squad and what you called the farce
around the vacant kangaroo's job. And I've noticed in your
article titled Preparing to Fail by John Davidson on Petra

(22:54):
and get it on Patrion you said over the last fortnight.
So it's just good to know that you think in
terms of when our podcast comes out. You said England's
thirty two man squad met in Manchester for its first
gathering and apparently Sean Wayne didn't want this squad to

(23:15):
be announced.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Yeah it was, it was, It was announced last week.
They met up in the I think it was the
Worsley Marriott, not an actual field session, just basically a
meeting of the Super League based England players or thirty
two of them, obviously including those in the NRL. But yeah,
they met up and there was a media op but

(23:38):
it was really interesting on I think it was Friday
Nights coverage on Sky before Lee v Wigan, Brian Corney
and John Wilkin had Sam Tomkins in the in the
studio and he is the team manager of England and
they talked about the selections and Tomkins actually revealed that
Wayne didn't want to name a squad he was told

(23:59):
by the RFL to do it because he doesn't think
the point of naming a squad of July for a
series that starts in late October or mid October. What's
the point. So that was one of the kind of
bombshells that came out of it, and there was a
few others obviously with the players he selected, all the
players he didn't select, selecting Maddy Ashton, who won't play

(24:21):
any ashes because he's got a very serious injury. So
that was a bit of a weird one. Not naming
a backup fullback at all with Jack wellsby being injured
and it will only be fit probably just before the
first test was another weird one. And then the emission
of Jake Connor, who's leading the Men of Steel ranks,

(24:42):
and also I think some of his explanations to the
media of why he didn't select people were sort of
broken apart by Cannie and Wilkin.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Let's listen to that audio.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
Now supporters of England Rugby League quite a bit more supportively.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
The players read in so.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
And who's not in that prolibic squad?

Speaker 4 (25:00):
Well, I think you've read an awful into it, Brian,
actually because I think it's not necessarily the players who
were in and I'm delighted to some of the players who've.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Made that squad and some boaters in there.

Speaker 4 (25:09):
But without doubt the omissions speak more to me. You know,
Jake Connor's absence suggests his international career is all but done.
You know the fact he's not in there. Dean Hadley,
Joe Burgess, Tom Davis, does emissions for me speak Volumes.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
Of Sean Wayn's selection will dive in DJ though shortly.
First we should probably announce you in your position as
England team manager. Do you have a role or input
into the selection of that thirty two months squad? Well,
my rules saw a little bit of everything.

Speaker 5 (25:41):
Alpout coaches when they need logistics.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Of camp and things like that.

Speaker 5 (25:45):
So I'm privy to the conversations and we've got we've
got three good coaches in Sean Wayne and the last
and Lee Briers that were deciding. But yeah, I'm involved
in some of the conversations, and what I would say
is this squad wasn't wasn't asked for by Sean Wayne.
Sean Wayne's thinking about a competition in four months time.
I know Sean wo so just explained that it wasn't

(26:06):
asked for by him, but no, Sean got told he
had to announce the squad. Sean didn want an announcer
squad at this point. He doesn't think it's relevant. He
thinks that you know, the Ashes are going to be
paid in October and November, so putting a squad out
now is irrelevant. Because Sean wants to see the best
players playing well come the end of the season in
the bigger games, the more important games. And maybe that's
why we do have so man of the emissions we've
got because Seawan's focus, he's not focusing on big play

(26:28):
at scorelines.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
He wants to.

Speaker 5 (26:29):
See the best players in the toughest games, and some
of those maybe not have the opportunity.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
It's not just who's he in, who's out. What people
seem to have taken issue with, and we'll go into
these is an inconsistency and in incoherence in the explanations
for who's he who's out? Firstly walk you to the
least sports village. Suddenly delighted that Owen trousers in the squad.
Referend Sean Wayne's quote. He is confisational, he runs hard,
lovely kids, very respectful, turned up early for our meeting.

(26:56):
He needs some work because he could be bigger and stronger.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
Explain, Oh, everybody can move bigger and stronger. It's the
most obvious comment. Bigger, stronger, fitter, more skillful. That's every
player in the competition. I think or in out strength
is his physicality. Of course he can put weight on
and become a stronger player, but why haven't in your
squat If he's a development player. The international squad is

(27:20):
a pick of your best players. So I would say
I think Sean Wayne that his way of coaching Brian
is to have a constant reminder and push and prop
players to be.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Better all the time.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
That was always good, all right. The Dean Hadley one
and Willie Peters has been public about this. Dean Hadley
is a good player. Of just looking at us playing
Australia Webley and seeing him in there, he could probably
hack it, but he might not hack it. That's just
my personal choice. Willy Peters w takes issue with that.
He says, don't associate the word hacked with Dean Hadley.

Speaker 5 (27:47):
Yeah, I do you understand that? Yeah, I understand Willim Peters.
You know, he's his coach. He sees him every day
and he probably you know, he sees him day in
there and sees what he does at all pre But
this is the thing that there's only one England coach
and it's and it's his opinion that gets people in
and out of the squad.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
I think I don't think that.

Speaker 5 (28:03):
I don't think the doors shut what you mentioned on
the before, John, I don't think the doors shut for anyone.
If Dan Hadley is the best second rower for the
rest of this year and he's playing playoff rugby and
he stand out every week and'll be playing for him,
he just needs.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
To be aware as well. It's not the best players
that get picked for England.

Speaker 6 (28:17):
I mean it could be to win, it could be,
and it.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Should be, but it's actually Sean wins preferred players and
that's what that's his opinion. We can't add an explanation
like Jake Connor, He says, Jake Connor's not consistent enough
Jake Connor before when private was top of the Man
of Steel leader board. If nothing else, it's a record
of consistency over a season. So people are saying we're

(28:40):
gonna have played poorly in the last three games. Seven
of their players are inside the squad. He references and
Jake connor performance against Saint Helen's as a reasoning behind
not picking him because of inconsistence.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
We just don't like him, Maybe.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
Don't like him, he don't like his character, he don't
like the blog, so he's not going to pick him
like he just doesn't like the kid. Do you think
that's it's a fair reflection of the Jake cut The
reason I think.

Speaker 5 (29:02):
I think what Sean said is he is not consistent
enough in the tighter games.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
Now we're talking about against who are it was consistent against.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
In the top ten.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
I'm telling you what Sean Wayne said, you now for
it doesn't stand.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Scrutiny is what I've changing.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Man of Steel.

Speaker 4 (29:16):
You mentioned Man of Steel, right, The Man of Steel
is the biggest rend hering going.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, I'm sorry. Nick.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
Nick Contrich who plays it can't alter a two time
winner for the Man of Steel fifth place. You are
you saying in the years that he won Matter Steel,
he was a deserving winner, saying we can use that
as a stick to beat Sean Wayne with that.

Speaker 4 (29:30):
Jake Connors the best player will he played for him
at the end of the year. With the players we've.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
Got in his position, he won no okay absentees, no
Joe Burgers, no Tom Davis as examples. Maddie Ashton is
included in the squad. Yeah, he won't play till next year. Yeah,
I don't know where he's at with his injury and
he won't play. He will not play rugby league this year.
They won't be playing this year for in the Ashes
then Willy, but he's in, he's in the training squad.
Do you understand where people?

Speaker 1 (29:55):
I can?

Speaker 5 (29:55):
I can, I can, I fully understand. I fully understand
what you where you're coming from. But again it comes
back to the head coach of opinion and if he
wants to put people in and now that's that's him.

Speaker 4 (30:04):
He's a bit of it shown when I don't want
to put a squad out, I'm.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Just going to put this out.

Speaker 5 (30:09):
I think I genuinely think Sean thinks it's irrelevant to
put a squad in July when we're trying to win games.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
In October and November.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
But then on that what I.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
Would say is just put a bigger squad out.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah, just keep everyone happening.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
We won't be talking about it.

Speaker 4 (30:21):
If Jake Connor, Dean applet, Tom, Tom Davis, and Joe
Burns in it, you wouldn't have a talking point. So
I think, what's the what's the worst Niver forty man's squad?

Speaker 3 (30:28):
If do you think Jake Connor, I'll just leave it.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
On this one.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
I deserve the place in the initial thirty two man squad.
I think it would have been the easiest thing in
the world to just name him, and that he's played
well enough to deserve the position.

Speaker 5 (30:39):
And do you think I think for a wider squad, Yeah,
I can understand the arguments that he'd be in, but
I'd agree with the fact that if if if we're
picking seventeen tomorrow is not in it, is it?

Speaker 2 (30:49):
But you know, in a wider squad.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
I can see the argument for him involved.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, Okay, just rumminder.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
We I thought that was greating inquisition from Cannie and
supported by John Wilkins and I thought Tompkins dealt with
it okay to quite frankly, but it was just a
great discourse. It was it was yeah, yeah, definitely, there's
people getting annoyed. There's people getting annoyed by it. I mean,

(31:15):
I was tweeting with somebody on one of your threads
and they were saying, why is it an issue? And
I said, because it's a talking point and or words
to this effect, and then he came up with about
three talking points for me why it wasn't a talking point.
I said, well, thank you, that's another reason why we'll
talk about I guess. I mean, I don't I don't

(31:36):
know Jake Connor, Okay, I neither do I.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
I don't know him personally.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
No, and I actually don't know him that well as
a player because I only sporadically look at Super League.
I tend to have a big effort at the start
of the year when I've not seen rugby league for
a while, I see plenty of Super League, and then
it sort of drops off. What I can't find them
And you could argue, you could argue this is really

(32:03):
good from a marketing point of view. What I can't
what I can't fathom from Sean Wayne's point of view
is why not just put him in the squad because
it'll just take the heat off you. From a marketing
point of view, though, at least everybody's talking about why
Jake Connor's not in the squad, which you know, if

(32:24):
all publicity is good publicity, then it's worked a treat.
So in terms of why the RFL wanted this squad announce,
it's probably because of things like this. But I'd hate
to give the RFL credit for market like I think
you just They've not got that great a track record
for it, so it'd be tough to give them too
much credit for marketing. But maybe if somebody has got

(32:44):
it right, sore cudos to them. But also, let's let's
flip this to the Australian side of things. Somebody said,
would Nico Hines have got in the Australian squad for
winning the Man at the dally M? So let's analyze
for a second the merits of the Man of Steel

(33:05):
and dally M versus actual football. So, for those who
don't know, Jake Connor is leading the Man of Steel
awards points thinging me Bob has he won it before?

Speaker 2 (33:17):
No, has't.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
He hasn't won it before, but he's leading it this
year and it's not made Sean Wayne's thirty two man squad,
which is actually really a forty man squad when you
consider the NRL based players. So right, let's pick apart
now the merit of such a such a such an

(33:40):
award versus selections for a test side or an origin side.
So I'll come it from the coach angle. You come
it from the journalist angle, because it tends to be
the journalists that make these decisions, doesn't it. And give
the points to Ford.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
And the interesting thing with Man of Steel, the panel
who judges that are generally ex players, and I think
the chairman is Ellery Hanley, and the people on the
panel are Paul Sculthorpe, I think, you know, I'd have
to check one hundred percent, but I knew a couple
of years ago. Was Paul Sculthorpe, It was Paul Cook Cook,

(34:19):
it was kyl Amore. I know in the past, Gary
Schofield was on it. I don't think he's on it now.
But they're generally elite level formal players, so there's no
journalists who vicked them in terms of the Man of Steel.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Right, Okay, yeah, the dally M he's done by a journalists,
isn't it. So what about the point structure Man of Steel?

Speaker 2 (34:39):
So it's it's very similar. They changed a few years ago.
It's very similar to dally M. So you get you know,
I think it's a three two one breakdown. And the
reason one of the reasons obviously, you know, generally the
players who get the more points are half backs, four backs, hookers,
you know, spine players. And one of the reasons why

(35:01):
j Connor is up there is because he has been very,
very consistent this season, which is one of funny because
Sean Wayne said against the Helln's he wasn't consistent, but
the man have still Actually is a reflection of how
consistent he has been all year. And also leads are
sitting in third when they've been quite rubbish for numerous
years and he only joined the offseason, and one of

(35:21):
the reasons they are so high on the table is
because he's been playing very well. At six.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
Somebody said to me, and I'm pretty convinced it was
an Australian. It was in the last week somebody said
Sean Wayne looks old quote unquote and that's not great
because he's only won one premiership and I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
More than one.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah, how many is he won?

Speaker 2 (35:57):
I think he's one. I think he won three Grand
finals with wigany one twenty thirteen, twenty sixteen and twenty eighteen.
And he also won the World Club Challenge over Cronala
in I think that was twenty when a Cronala win
twenty sixteen, I think that would have been twenty seven
eight in February. I was at the game, so I
should remember it. Yeah, so's he won? He won? You know,

(36:17):
I think he won to three premierships with Wigan and
he may have won a challenge couple or two as well.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
So he's won three premierships. So this person said he's
not won that many. Well, he said he only won
one premiership. He's not his one three. I'm quoting this
person and he just looked old with his gray beard.
I'm not sure he's the man to motivate England to
a win. What well, what do you think to that comment?

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, I mean how he looks. It's a bit of
a bizarre comment. I mean, Wayne Bennett maybe the next
kangaroo coaching seventy five, don't I mean see having a
terror of season, so put that aside. But yeah, Wayne's
been old for quite a Wayne Bennett has been old
for for many a year and it's not really stopped

(37:09):
motivating players. So I think that's a bit of a crop.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yeah, I think the age I think the age thing.
I don't think you need to be young to motivate players.
I mean I think if you look at the great coaches,
generally the better because they're more experienced, you know, and
they use their years of experience to get successful teams.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
So this is a great segue because Australia are looking
for a could right now. So Malmoninger, who's also old
but doesn't have a great beard, has recently vacated the seat.
Brad Fhittler, who's not quite as old but has some
gray hair, was widely expected and reported to take over

(37:51):
the range and paraphrasing your fantastic piece of writing, John here,
Phittler held team meetings with team manager Tristan Hay just
before he decided to use turn and turned down the
job and focus on his media commitments, which you followed
up with some stinging podcast comments. Freddy said, quote, well,

(38:12):
you've got to get it organized. It's been left late.
There's no fields booked, no hotels booked, there's no staff,
so yeah, it's got to happen. And then there's eligibility
issues going on. So there's a fair bit to do
unquote discuss.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah, I mean there were pretty game in comments. I mean,
you can you can really into it. He made some
other comments I think on two GB as well, but
you know, talking about how he didn't like, you know,
being the prospect of being a national team coach and
then obviously being a media plant and having the criticized
players who then would be later picking in a series.

(38:52):
But to me, it just seems like he looked at
these these issues, you know, the bad preparation, nothing in
line and sort of thought, and obviously he's going to
be there's gonna be a lot of players who won't
play frustration, So you're gonna lose Tino, You're going to
probably lose pain Hess, You're going to lose the Hammer, Crichton,
Toto nan I, there's a few others. I'm just rolling

(39:14):
those ones off the top of my head, Loui. So
it just seems like he's just going on. It seems
like a bit of a hiding to nothing. No thanks, thanks,
but no thanks. So there were really damning comments and
I think, you know, you can look at it a
few different ways, but it just looks like the NRL's
focused on setting up Perth, setting up p ANDNG. We're

(39:35):
trying to get Orange and done and dusted, and they're obviously,
you know, sorting out Vegas for next year, and the
ASHES is just very low on their list of priorities.
Whether that's a good thing or you know, whether it
should be or shouldn't be, I'm not I'm not saying
either way, but it does seem to be very low
on their on their priority list.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
A couple of things to unpackt there, you seem, and
so many other people seem quite convinced that pay House
will not play for Australia this year.

Speaker 6 (40:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
I think there's been whispers, whispers and talk of that
for probably eighteen months. Look as a as an Australian,
I hope, I hope he does. He's probably the best
prop in the world, so he'd be a massive boost
for the Kangaroos. But there's been talk of that for
a while, and obviously it seems to be there's a

(40:26):
bit of a trend. I mean, Josh Papali did this
I think twenty thirteen and he won the World Cup
with Australia and then he went back to Samoa. I
think he might have come back to Australia again and
then gone back to samol But who's the player who
I'm forgetting. I think it was Tino or there's there's
been quite a few players who've perhaps you know, made

(40:46):
their mark with the Kangaroos and then gone off to
the country of heritage. So it really wouldn't surprise me
if he does that. And I think what happens. We've
seen it with Tonga and Jason Tomololo and Andrew Fafieda
and Manu Mao back in what twenty seventeen. You get
a few big names who go to a certain country
and then they encourage the others. So I think when

(41:07):
you've got you know, Jerome Lewa, Jerome Lewi, Stephen Crichton,
Brian Totto, a number of the other Simong players, Roger
toovas a check and they'll probably be in his ears
saying look, come and join us, and you know you
get a.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Chance to It's not convinced it. I'm not convinced it
will happen this year.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Yeah, it may, it may not. It may, it may
happen next year, or it may not happen at all.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
But it's a unique chance for every player to tour
England and play in something that hasn't happened for so long.
And also also Payne has has been leaving Brisbane for
the last three years too. Okay, John, you and I
have been appointed to a point the next Kangaroo's cult,

(41:50):
So we're going to talk about the potential candidates. Now,
there is a rule. I don't know if it's unwritten
or written. It seems to have been in place since
the eighties, and the Rugby League Commission are actually meeting
today as we record Origin Eve to talk about whether

(42:10):
they will change the rules to allow club coaches to
coach Australia. The word on the street is they want
which will rule Wayne Bennett out. First of all, first question,
should club coaches be allowed to coach Australia?

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Yeah, I mean I think for this instance you make
an exemption. Look international rugby league, how many games do
we play a year. It's not a full time job.
We probably play more Origin Games a year than we
do International Games most years, apart from World Cup years.
So I don't have a massive issue with it. The
sport's just not really that big. I think you said

(42:47):
since the eighties. I'm sure Bob Fulton was coaching mainly
in Australia and the look, I think, look Wayan Bennett's
seventy five, what a nice way to go out. Give
him the Ashes job, Cameron as his assistant so we
can learn the ropes then, because it is a bit
of a last minute prep. You need someone who knows
what they're doing, who's toured England, who knows these stadiums,

(43:09):
who knows these places. And Wayne I think Wayne Pain
for Hannsfield in the seventies, so he's been going to
England for bloody fifty years.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
He's old. Don't use him, he's got right, hey, yeah,
motivate him. Let's come up with a shortlist. Coach Australia.
I look, I'm available, but there's no way I'm coaching
against England, so rule me out please. I'd be too
honest for them. I'd be cleaning, I'd be I'd be

(43:39):
I'd be I'd be winding in the media now about
the lack of prep. I'd get sacked before I went
on the tour.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
The names that have been out there and it has
a bit of a wee one that Cameron Smith said,
yeah I'm interested, but he's not rang up the power
rockers at the air see, which you think if you
want the job, you do that. Kevin Walters has been
interviewed about it and he's keen. And obviously Wayne's the
other one who has been mentioned. I think or was
it you who was who was tearing Desi? He was

(44:08):
tearing DESI wait, look, I mean DESI played for Australia
premiership winning coach. I think you know he's mad, but
he'd be he'd be good bye. I think it's got
to be wine. I think I think you you ease.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
That rule for hang on, angle and angle. We're a committee, mate,
you can't. It's got to be waying right. Let's go
through these candidates. Cameron Smith, somebody on my Facebook rugby
league coach by the way, who I've been talking to
in comment wise for years. Really I really respect his opinion,

(44:42):
great fellow wrote on my Facebook, Cameron Smith is the
only logical choice. Like I replied, why he's never coached,
So his qualification as a coach is Palm Beach Under fifteen,
Palm Beach, Currumbin Under fifteen, just down the road from
good School. No no, not the school, sorry the club? Sorry?

(45:07):
Yeah whatever. Yeah. Even malmon Inger made reference to that,
saying at least he's coaching, so.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
Yeah he is.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Let's talk about the merits of cam Smith. In fact,
I'm going to lead this. I'm going to pull rank again.
Now what qualifications has Cam Smith got? Two organize a
tour to the other side of the world and coach
a football team in a three match series. Yeah, against

(45:49):
a hungry, wounded English lion. I don't understand, Like I
always play at the top level, I think, yeah, I think.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
I think the argument is he's perhaps the greatest regular
league player of all time. He was a particularly intelligent
player and the fact, and I think this is the
you've coached rep teams, So you can probably argue against
this or have a different oventuone. But I think the
idea for some people is that, particularly with the Australian team,
they don't need much coaching, you know what I mean,

(46:25):
Like it's the best players in the world. You know,
you kind of let your halves and your fall back
and you hook a run the show. It's more about
team bonding and gelling, particularly when you've got nus and
queens only hate each other in a milier year and
they've got to come together. But there's not actually much
hands on coaching. That's that's the idea that people put
out there. I seem to agree with you that the

(46:45):
fact that he's never coached would rule him out of
a pretty prestigious job.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
I mean this thing that as well, players just coax theirselves.
I'd like to remind everyone this is twenty twenty five,
not nineteen seventy. I haven't I had.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
I had a former great Britain player literally say this
to me on the phone last week. So it's not
you know, it's not just a fan theory. It's one
that's across.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
It happened Kevin Walters.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Look, Kevin Walters again was a great player. Coach at
Katlans was a failure there, went to Brisbane, was very
close to winning ground final and then it all went
Tit's up. I don't think he is the right candidate
for Kangaroos. I think he's a very nice guy. I

(47:37):
think at the broncos you probably let the players have
too much run of the joint and he couldn't, you know,
really string it all together despite having a very talented roster.
I don't think he's probably.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
I don't think I'm going to counter this one job.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
I'll just say one on one last thing. Don't coach.
But I don't think he was a raging success as
Marion's coach either.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
No, he he isn't. However, he did win his first
two series I think, so we only need him to
win one at the moment. Also, he's a really good
fella who tends to put players first. Okay, so the
feedback when he took over from mal in origin was

(48:21):
that he listened to the players and listened to their
feedback about making the odd thing easier. So I'll give
you one example. Malmoninger used to make sure they got
up at seven am every morning, had a team walk
a couple of players, one of them may have been
Cameron Smith. Then it sounds that can get rid of
this walk Kevin, Yeah, no problem, and so it just
started to probably slip a little bit from here.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Now.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
It took two years from memory for that to be
a problem in Origin right right now, we only need
him to win the Ashes, so I think he's probably
quite capable and he's got some requisite experience of being
a way in camp with the Origin land and everything.
He could keep the squad happy over three weeks because

(49:05):
a big job will be at the end of the season,
right John. I've been on a lot of these tours.
The players are knackered after a year of high intensity football,
so they don't want the same amount of intensity. Tim
Sheens did well as Australia coach, but I do know
sometimes under him the squad was ready to crack because

(49:27):
he still treated it like the NRL season.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
It did crack at the end.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
Yeah, yeah, I remember when we were the USA played
them in the twenty thirteen quarter final. As soon as
the game finished, all the players that didn't play for Australia,
including Robbie Farreh and a few others, actually did a
conditioning session on the field at Wrexham straight after old school.
But no, it wasn't even a bad conditioning session. It

(49:53):
was you know, it was sports science impacted. But the
fact of the matter is that was the way he
went about it. And there was rumors at the time
that Tim Sheen's actually went missing for a few days
just because the pressure of everything was big and just
decided to take himself off away from the canform. So
there's that too, and Mal gets that balance perfect. He's

(50:17):
made a living over in the last decade and a
bit from doing that and keeping players happy in that scenario.
So I think I would have Kevy. And nobody's been
a bigger critic of Kevy than I from a coaching
point of view, but I do think put it this way,
he's higher than Cameron Smith, and.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
I think everything you've said there just points to why
it should be Whyne Bennett because I think he's a
player's coach as well. I think no one's better at
you sitting down putting an arm around a player. All
these players love him. The other element is this is
a media journalistic element is the fact that he was
sacked by England for Sean Mine to replace him, So

(51:01):
it's a perfect you know, there's a revenge e onlement there.
He was going to take England the twenty twenty two
World Cup. He did the Great Britain Lions in twenty nineteen.
It was a massive failure. He got sacked one of
the reasons Kevin Sinfield left the RFL was because he
was unhappy that Wane got sacked. So he's he's chanced
to come back and stick two fingers up England the ashes.

(51:22):
I mean, it's perfect love. And we know Wayne he
loves the media, he loves chatting the journals. He's you know,
the Clint Eastwood facade. I mean, we we'd love it.
We'd love it over here.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Okay, again just countering that Wayne's already been Australia coach.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
He has unfinished business.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Actually lost a three Nations or a four Nations final
Sydney Airport and went out the back door to avoid
the journal.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
I think I think it was Brisbane Airport. He did
a runner, but yeah, that's the album moment. It was
unfinished business. I think it was. Was it two thousand
and five or two thousand and three my memory, he's
not great, but that was the famous New Zealand victory
I think Ellen.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Four.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
Actually, yeah, it was around that period. I remember watching
a game in New Zealand absolutely dominated.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
So look, I know Wayne Bennett would do the job.
There was also a fellow who would believe he is
going to announce his retirement, which would take him away
from being a club coach. He's played a lot for
Australia and played a lot of Origin. He's won premierships
and he is definitely a players coach. The people that

(52:42):
don't Bagdaz tend to be the players. I think Des
Hasler needs a definite It needs to be a conversation personally,
what say you?

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Yeah? I mean, I'm a mainly fan, so I can
remember watching Deaz as a kid. He was a fantastic
player and he was an amazing coach. He absolutely turned
I think it was around the two thousand and three
four season, led him to Grand Finals in two thousand
and seven, thousand and eight, twenty eleven and twenty third

(53:15):
sorry twenty eleven, one twenty eleven in two thousand and eight.
He's a great coach. He's very eccentric, but he's a
very smart operator and he and his players do love him.
So I think I think he'd be a great candidate
as well. I'd actually i'd have personally, I'd have Des
over over Keven Walters.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
And also I've worked on the Des and as long
as he's not intense, and by intense I mean not
in the things that you take camping, I mean intense.
I've also got to get this in John, right. You
know the phrase game management, yes, that he's now in

(53:56):
our vocabulary in rugby league. Listen to it when it's said,
and how many times it sounds like gay management when
people say it fast game management. So I always emphasize
game management when I say it, because I've listened. I
was even listening to a podcast last night and we
way home from my football commitments and the game management,

(54:18):
game management, game management, game management.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
This is a homophobic free podcast.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
That's right, that's right. Yeah, I'm just saying though, just
I didn't pass any comment about whether it's right or
wrong anyway. Nineteen ninety four, John, how old were you then?

Speaker 2 (54:38):
I was thirteen the.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Last full Kangaroo tour. Now, just to help people mind
go back to that event if they were alive, here's
some audio from the first test. Now, I don't want
everyone to think I'm only ever just picking great Britain wins.
It's just availability. I think it's only the English that
put these things on YouTube, so when I steal the

(55:02):
audio from it, it tends to be just the British win.
So here's some Great Britain win is a Great Britain
win again, but this time with Australian commentary. There.

Speaker 6 (55:11):
He is the Australian Graham Annersley. He'll do the first
two Tests and Bill Harrigan will do the third of
Allen Road.

Speaker 7 (55:18):
I think the Australians will be very happy to have
Graham Ansley in charge. One of the problems they've had
over here during this tour has been getting used to
the different interpretations. No doubt the ten meter rule hasn't
been enforced particularly well, nor to play the ball area.
If it's an open game out here, I'm sure the
kangaroos will benefit. And if there's fifty thousand people here
at the moment it sounds like one hundred and fifty thousand.

(55:40):
We just hope that we can provide some of the
atmosphere back to you at home and in other areas.
Of course, it is a place to be.

Speaker 6 (55:49):
So Australia unbeaten on tour so far. Five down and
there's the kickoff to the first Test at Wembley. Just
short of the line, Well Edwards walks.

Speaker 8 (56:01):
Back off the mark, Pale rolls it in, Mullins has
missed it, scooped away by Roberts.

Speaker 7 (56:07):
The number eight Lang has now slotted into the first.

Speaker 6 (56:11):
Receiver Langana pushing it on for Daily then maninga, here's
a chance.

Speaker 9 (56:16):
Clyde edding house.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Oh, Clyde has been smalled.

Speaker 6 (56:20):
He's got the guy, hie bye Edwards. Edward's got him
across the nose. Guy, he set him off.

Speaker 8 (56:27):
Edwards has been sent The English captain has been sent off.

Speaker 10 (56:32):
Yeah, Goodnesssion there too by hand easily. He doesn't knuck around.
Off he goes and he deserves it. He's kidding with that.
Clyde's still down right around the top. Is that one
could have gone anywhere on Clyde.

Speaker 6 (56:45):
Yeah, that's Brokennose territory.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
That one.

Speaker 6 (56:48):
Jonathan Davis in this thirteenth test for Great Britain and
this one it's there two little there, Great Britain over Australia.
Here's a break building across for Clark into the hands

(57:09):
of bets. Now for Davis. Davis to the twenty mater line.

Speaker 8 (57:14):
Mullins is after him and Davis hate scores sensational trive.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Well.

Speaker 7 (57:22):
Craig worked from Craig Britain, starting from the scrum when
Bobby Dooling setting up.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
An attacking raid on the left hand side.

Speaker 7 (57:28):
Through Allen Hunt and Martin Offia, and then a brilliant
back line moved a big dummy from Jonathan Davis hook
line and secret the back line from the Australians fell
for it, and then enough speed to stay on the
outside of Brett Mullins and score in the corner. They've
looked more enthusiastic.

Speaker 6 (57:47):
They've looked a little bit faster at times.

Speaker 7 (57:50):
Brett Phillip couldn't get across in time and ran off
stayed on the.

Speaker 6 (57:54):
Outside heading House on a dummy half Langer at first receiver,
Stewart at second Furner coming up, Niga gives it on
run off.

Speaker 8 (58:01):
It's better run off the dummy and the ties right off.
He diads it down. Australia on the board but trailing six.

Speaker 10 (58:10):
Four, and there it was great friend and have had
twelve men for about forty or fifty minutes and finally
taking its Tyler's renoff still down after scoring the try
and great China. Australia. They haven't looked like scoring the
much of the game, but there they just had the
overlap and the good short passing is what it was

(58:31):
all about Stuart to Meninger had simple drawn passed there.

Speaker 8 (58:35):
Two on one, four meters in from touch, twenty meters
out Kenny level.

Speaker 6 (58:42):
He kicks it and it's kinda cross the face of
the Uplights, much to the joy of the Great Britain crowd.
Six four back to Wembley in a moment, Robinson playing
it way for MacDermott.

Speaker 10 (59:00):
Has been stown since he's been on the Nickdern along
with Chris Joint been Great Britain's.

Speaker 6 (59:04):
Two best forwards. Now another preenderly goes to Great Britain.

Speaker 9 (59:09):
Well that'll start them singing again.

Speaker 6 (59:12):
This is enough to make any of them sing really,
the troll fingers just got pointed straight.

Speaker 7 (59:16):
At the goal and it was the fingers of these
Great Britain players.

Speaker 6 (59:21):
They all want two points here Golding, Golding's kick. It's
up there.

Speaker 9 (59:27):
He's kicked the goal, and the crowd of fifty seven
thousand looking at the time case, they consider that's a victory.

Speaker 6 (59:40):
I hope there must be only seconds away. As Kassidy
runs into the shoulder of.

Speaker 9 (59:46):
Day paydas the pest that is over at.

Speaker 8 (59:49):
Wembley, Great Britain, the Lions have beaten Australia eight points
to four.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
You were watching that game, John, as a kid? Did
you stay up late to watch it or get up?

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
Yeah? I have done if I was allowed. Yeah, I
think that was a It was a pretty handy team,
that ninety four teen of the Kangaroos.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
May you were thirteen, Your parents won't let you stay
up late? Did you? What did the tough parenting.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Clipper around the ear? If you were.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
The ninety four Kangaroo Tour was the eighteenth and the
last one played in the full format, which is sad.
The four ex Kangaroos as there were known, played a
number of matches against British and French clubs or provincial outfits,
and then because of the Super League War, it didn't happen.
The total tour record was eighteen matches, four Test matches played,

(01:00:57):
played eighteen one, seventeen drawn, non lost one. The one
that they lost was the first Test Great Britain at
Wembley who got sent off for knocking Bradley Clyde into
next week Sewn Edwards who scored Great Britain's try and
that Test. Jonathan Davis, that's right, because look the British

(01:01:18):
just recycle this that's how you know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Who was the boogie in Sydney.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Henderson Gill and it was a bit of a boogie.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Yeah, I mean replayed over and over again.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Who was the coach of the Australian side? Was captain?

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Now?

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Top point scorer on the tour?

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
Oh, that's a good one. Top point scorer. I'm going
to go with Ricky, but he may have played.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
I was nearly going to give you a clue and
say some players in NRL, but that would apply to
rick to Rod Wishart one undred and seventy four, it
was the top tri scorer. Jesus no, I wasn't playing
two yeah, correct? At one point to Johnny there was

(01:02:20):
a forward that became the four forward ever to be
selected for his third Kangaroo Tour, having toured in eighty
six and nineteen ninety. Who was it? I even sent
you this link to research. Honestly, you no wonder you're
in trouble with your parents. You would have got bad
grades as words.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
It wouldn't have been Lasom You've stumped me there. Forward
in the eighty six Yeah, not Benny, not Benny A
layers zero zero. I was about to say blocker, but

(01:03:02):
I didn't think Blocker was probably picked out any six
but zero. Yeah, a great.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Polar twenty eight players. How many New South Welshmen and
how many Queenslanders.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
I'd say it probably would have been a sixty forties,
But you said Welshman.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Twenty New South Welshman, eight Queenslanders? Is that sixty forty?

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
No, that's that's that's probably more like seventy thirty. I
do remember though, that was there not a young a
very very young Steve menzies m. Yeah, he was only eighteen,
I think.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
I think so. He was definitely on the year after.
I'll double check that in the moment. Which club was
was represented the most on that tour Broncost No, they
were second Canberra Raiders, Almonry Daily, Brad Clyde, David Ferner,
Brett Mullins, Ricky Stewart, Steve Walters. Okay. Three Ashes tests

(01:03:57):
took place at Wembley Stadium, All Trafford in Manchester and
ellen Road in Leeds. They played Cumbria in the first
match and beat them fifty two to eight. They played
Leeds in the next match, which is a game we
featured in the interview with Marcus Vassel Coppolists and they
beat Leeds forty eight six. Marcus was obviously blame for

(01:04:19):
that result. The Wigan game was a great game. It
was thirty twenty to Australia. It was a great game.
That's memorable for Barry McDermott rearranging Paul Cyrenon's chin with
his elbow.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
I do I actually I've got a funny story. Hopefully
Barry went mind. But a few years ago I may
have tweeted calling him mcgreb. Yeah, he DM me and
we had we had a good chatte of Cleary. But
that's all good. We're mates being Barry mates. I am

(01:04:52):
scared of him, but no, he's a legend. He's a
legend Barrier and I think, look, that's the way the
game was played back in There's, wasn't it. It was
very different.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
To him, and I think he got like a warning
or something.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
Well, it's great. There's a great billy. I'm not sure
if you ever heard the Twelfth Man Cricket. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
but there's a great one of the one of the
albums which I used to listen to religiously as a kid.
He does rabs and he did the Ashes game and
it's when Cero and Cero is hit with an iron
bar of some description not moved podcast. The impressions we

(01:05:34):
do oh well, especially especially on this bumper edition.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Ment he's to the forty mid A line Australia thirty
eight Castle for twelve. I reckon they'd probably do something
similar right now after they've sat down in Maguire Castle
for Australia twenty six Halifax twelve. I feel like that
would be one hundred and twenty six twelve right now.
And then the Ashy series started on the first Test,

(01:06:05):
which you've heard the audio of Great Britain eight Australia
four in front of fifty seven thirty four people at
Wembley Stadium on the twenty second of October. It's going
to be a similar date this year. I think who
was a referee No Idea mate Graham Ansley, Ah, yeah,

(01:06:27):
name Australia side have a crack full back Mallans Yeah, wings.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Et and.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
Michael Hancock, No, Wendell Saylor centers mal and.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
I'm gonna say Mary McGregor would have been probably.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
A bit pool Steve Ranoff, Oh the Pool of course, yeah,
six and seven.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
It's not Ricky alf or.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
You need to know this history. John Bozo twice went
with Alphie in the first test and then went with
Ricky and Test.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
Yeah, he used to it used to play them off
against each other and swap them around, which I think
both of them hated it was. He never really stuck
with one of them. I mean, they're both great players.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
But yeah, so Laurie Daly was in the Hearts with
Alphae that game front row. Uh Ian Roberts, Ye, Steve Walters, Yeah,
Hooker yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
Ah. The other prop not not Glen Lazarus.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
It was the Chief, Paul Harrigan.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
The Chief. You could have given me as a nervo Castrian.
You could have given me a tip for that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
One Novocastrian you you should have known it. It should
be tattooed on your arm. Paul Syrenan was in the
second row with half of Barry's elbow in his mouth still.
And you should know this other second rower because he's
got half of Sean Edwards his forearm in his teeth.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Was Brad Clyde not playing thirteen.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
He was playing second row. Brad Fittler was locked, of course.
The bench was Ricky Stewart, Tim Brasher, Dean pay David Ferner,
who was the coach of Britain. I was the legendary
Melro I believe no, it was a legendary Ellary Hamley
who was still playing, who was still playing for Leeds

(01:08:38):
and had never coached anybody, which might as well pick
Cameron Smith.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
Now Hillary could still play now he looks they.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
Australia then went to play the Sheffield Eagles and won
a tight game eighty points to two. They played Wales
and one forty six four Australia Saint Helen's thirty two fourteen.
Imagine this now the Ropa wo be up in arms.
Second Test Australia thirty eight Great Britain eight who scored

(01:09:10):
Britain's only try.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
Latina fire Paul new Love.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
It was in front of forty nine hundred and thirty
people Al Trafford in Manchester. Annesley refereed again. Player of
the match was Brad Fitler. Like I said, Ricky Stewart
played in the harves pretty much. The rest of the
team looks very similar Bradley. Was this not the This
wasn't the game where Mal scored at the at the

(01:09:45):
death nineteen ninety You've just ruined two podcasts in the
future for people. Australia twenty four Warrington Nill in a
Test match and somebody I got to know a little bit, Philter,
a friend of a friend, said tackling Wendell Saylor in

(01:10:05):
this game was the hardest thing he'd ever done. He
said he was such a hard person to tackle. That's
just a little side note. Bradford Northern, I don't know
who they are. I only know the Bradford bulls now No.
I remember Northern got beat fourteen ill by Australia. Great
Britain under twenty one's got beat fifty four to ten.

(01:10:27):
How many games with the third Test, Third and final
Test Australia twenty three, Great Britain four and it was
only two goals from a young Andy Farrell. Referee this
time was Bill Harrigan, Ellen Road in Leeds thirty four
hundred and sixty eight. Steve Walters was Man of the match.

(01:10:50):
And then they went to France and played a few
games and won every one of them and to avenge
their nineteen seventy eight defeat, Australia won sixty four nine
against a French thirteen and then played the Test matcher
one seventy four Nils, so they didn't even let them
score nine. And yes, Steve Menzies was on that tour.
I've just seen his name there. So that was honestly,

(01:11:13):
just to wrap that up, John, that I absolutely loved
rugby league at this at this point in time, and
to think that that was the last proper Ashes tour
was He's devastating really, So it's great to have them back.
And that's why I've been so exciting or so excited
about the return of the Ashes. I just wish that

(01:11:36):
the game on both sides of the world would take
it a little bit more seriously, that's all.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
Yeah, definitely, I mean, I just hope we can get
seventy than at Wembley and it's going to be a
great series. So let's let's keep building an up talking points,
talk about so elections, discuss things. That's right, that's right,
that's right, It's what other sports do well.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
I'll be honest though, John, All publicity is good publicity
and the fact that everybody in England is talking about
this Jake cornor thing can only be good. Can only
be good.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
But you'd be amazedly about how many people who tweeted
me saying it's a non issue. You know, Brian Canney
was terrible for the questions. He asked like people just
don't know. I just don't and then these sort of
things happen in the Premier League, that happened in rugby Union,
happened in the NRL every week. It's just this is

(01:12:39):
what you know. English rugby league needs a bit of
a bit of fire, a bit of interest, a bit
of excitement, a bit.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
Of debate, just like they get on the Ashes Rugby
League podcast every four. Now I'm still coldly Addison. You
still can get me an admin at Rugby League coach
dot combat. Are you or Rugby league coach dot combat?
Are you or rugby league coach? On social media? Johnny ware,
can they get you?

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
You can get me on x Johnny D Davidson, You
can get me on Patreon, at Rugby League hub dot com,
long Reads, and you can also get me at the ipaper,
I News, Google John Davidson I News for rugby league stories.

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
Just get him on Twitter and tweet the hell out
of him. Get to him, abuse him. He's so horrible.
Take care of John. I'll see you in a fortnight
unless you're out drinking, Thanks mate,