June 25, 2025 • 47 mins
Get excited about the upcoming Ashes Rugby League series in this latest episode of Ashes Rugby League Podcast!
In this episode.....
Mal Meninga – is he a big loss for the Kangaroos?
State of Origin – how is that impacting things?
Victor Radley concussions a concern for England
Who will be hooker and fullback for England?
Arise Sir Billy Boston!
And a look back at the 1997 Super League Test Series
Each fortnight, join Lee Addison and John Davidson for analysis, news, interviews with guests, history lessons and lots more every fortnight to help whet your appetite for the 2025 series between England and Australia!
Lee is an Englishman who has coached at NRL clubs and lived in Australia a LONG time. John is an Australian journalist based in the UK for many a year!
You can find and reach out to Lee at rugbyleaguecoach.com.au and John on X at @johnnyddavidson
In this episode.....
Mal Meninga – is he a big loss for the Kangaroos?
State of Origin – how is that impacting things?
Victor Radley concussions a concern for England
Who will be hooker and fullback for England?
Arise Sir Billy Boston!
And a look back at the 1997 Super League Test Series
Each fortnight, join Lee Addison and John Davidson for analysis, news, interviews with guests, history lessons and lots more every fortnight to help whet your appetite for the 2025 series between England and Australia!
Lee is an Englishman who has coached at NRL clubs and lived in Australia a LONG time. John is an Australian journalist based in the UK for many a year!
You can find and reach out to Lee at rugbyleaguecoach.com.au and John on X at @johnnyddavidson
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I had a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hello and welcome to Ash's Rugby League Podcast, Episode six.
My name is Lee Addison.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
And I'm John Dentson.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Be sure it took your while. Then again each fortnite
joined myself and John for analysis, news, interviews with guests, history,
lessons and lots more every fortnight to help wet your
appetite for the twenty twenty five series between England and Australia.
Over in England, I'm an Englishman who's coached at NROL
clubs and lived in Australia a long time. John is
(00:31):
an Australian journalist based in the UK for many a
year and is also a part time podcaster with me
because last time we tried to get a recording together
is too busy on a junkit at Lord's.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I was Strength and Africas it's a good day.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
It would have been a good day day one, because
it just went south into it after that after maybe
day four was it it went went in South Africa's direction.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yeah, I think what I was foring Wickers the first
I was there. I think day three Stark and Haz Yeah,
I think it was Stark and Commings are in a
good position. I think, what two seveny ahead but there.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
To win, so unlike unlike my team who can clinch
victory from the jaws of defeat. I was just telling
you before we started recording how I stayed up to
watch the England run chase against India in the first
Test and successful run chase too. So it's going to
be an interesting other ashes this year, isn't it, John?
The The England team going down Under for the cricket ashes.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
That's what it's all about me. I mean, obviously that
it was a World Championship final, but look as song
as we win the Ashes, and I'm pretty confidently will
in the right league, then that's all that matters. Those
are the bragging rights that they count.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And I mean I really shouldn't mentioned this sport on
this podcast, but the rugby union version. The British Lions
are heading down south here to Australia to play the Wallabies.
And I actually did a post the other day. I
don't know if you saw it, John, lamenting the fact
that we've allowed these rugby league ashes tours to disappear
from the rugby league ether.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, I mean, and the British and Irish lines led
by a rugby league legend and no I did say
that post and it's a great point. I mean, the
British and Irish Lines is a is a massive venture
in rugby union and money making huge media attention, excuse me.
And it is sad that we've we've let our Ashes
(02:36):
wither on the vine because it has got a long
and very proud history which we're exploring this podcast. But
thankfully we've got it back and we can we can
build on this series in series to come and hopefully
make it even even bigger and better in the future.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I've got a warning for you for future future podcast
weeks or fortnites. That is, I've been reading some what
I've been sourcing and finding some old books on British
rugby league, Australian rugby league Ashes series, et cetera. So
I'll be telling you a little bit later about a
booker read that I always like to surprise you on
(03:11):
this podcast with something, right, But the next one I'm
going to read is about the Rocks Drift Test in
nineteen fourteen, I think, so something of that talek anyway,
So yeah, we're only going to get deeper into history.
You can get me at Rugby League Coach dot com
dot au, admin at Rugby League Coach dot com dot
(03:33):
Au or at Rugby League coachs on socials, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok.
Message me on those first two if you can, John,
I'll let you go through your contact details because I
always get them wrong.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, you can get me on x Johnny d Davidson
and on Patreon, Rugby League hub dot com longreads.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
If somebody wants to send you an email, they can
can't be at journalist dot John Davidson at gmail dot
com John, And yes.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
That's right, they can get me there and just several
of the abuse to lay and just the nice messages
to me. Thanks.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I'm hoping to see in a few months John, when
I bring an ASHES tour down to up to the
UK and people can contact me on those details if
they're interested on doing that. And actually right now I'm
doing a initiative where anybody who buys anything off me
right now instead of doing an end of year financial
(04:30):
and the financial year sale in Australia, I'm doing a
buy something off me, even if it's just my book,
to get into a draw to win two two plane
tickets to the Ashes. So let's talk about the Ashes.
Has been quite a bit go on since the last
time I came face to face with you. Did you
listen to the vassal Acopolis One thought? I thought it
(04:53):
was intriguing that he played against them when he was
eighteen and then again when he was twenty eight and
the different surroundings.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Was Oh, definitely. It's an amazing story. And I know
on LinkedIn a lot of people were getting in touch
about that podcast and we're interested and it is a
it is quite a unique story there.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, and I just think as well the fact that
really he's an Englishman who happens to be in America now,
but he spent his young life going to the video
shop to get Winfield Cup take. So that was a
bit that got me so last Sorry you guys.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
That seems to be spoken on a few people in
the UK and what the late eighties early nineties, that
was kind of the thing, wasn't it. You know, you'd
wait a week to get the games. And it's just
amazing how much the model has changed. And now you
can be on the other side of the world and
you can watch every NRL game live everything, and yeah,
(05:51):
it's a different, very different broadcast market, but the passion
is still there for the product.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Since we last spoke in person on this, crass Malmaninga
is no longer the Kangaroos culp.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, it's huge news, isn't it. I mean, I think
remember in twenty twenty two, Mel did a bit of
a speaking tour after the World Cup and he said,
you know, I'm not sure. You know, I've got one
year left on my contract. I'm not sure if I
want to know continue on. I love the job. But
he've been doing it a long time. I think something
(06:24):
like since fifteen off the top of my head. Then
he's had huge success. Obviously two World Cup wins, lots
of other things, but he seemed very he was key
in getting this Ashes series back on. He's you know,
I think I think he's the only players have gone
on for Kangaroo tours, massive believer in the international game.
(06:47):
And obviously he played, you know, at Saint Helens and
there's a legend there, so he's got a lot of
love for the British game. So he was very, very
influential in getting it back on. And I don't think
anyone saw at first that coming because he hasn't coached
at nurro level for twenty odd years, so you know
his success as many as the rep coach of coins
(07:08):
Owd in Australia, so big. I think it's a big
blow for the Kangaroos. It looks like pretty Fitler will
be the coach. Not that that's been confirming in but
that seems to be the consensus. But I think it
is a blow for Australia. I mean, his first game,
Freddie Philler's first game in charge will probably be the
(07:29):
first Tests of Wembley, so absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
And I don't I think it's such big news because
I I'm a big fan of what malmon Inga has
done with the Kangaroos. I think it's been one of
the toughest periods ever to be the Kangaroos coach in
light of the fact that the players have been moving
to different countries. I think the only comparative period was
(07:52):
the Super League period when when the game was split,
and we're going to go into a bit more detail
about that later, but I think that they also also
the concerning thing is why Brad Fidler hasn't been announced yet.
If Brad Fidler is the coach. Now, does that mean
that other people have put their hands up and the
going to have a discussion about it? Are they're waiting
for the end of the Orange Series. I think all
(08:12):
these things actually play into England's hands.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, no, I agree, I think they do. I think
I think it gives England a bit of a boost.
I think I think you are right in that they'll
wait till the Origin series has gone. They've obviously, you know,
they're setting out Perth and P and G and the
n RL's kind of shown that I can't do four
or five different things at the one time. They're not
great at spitting plays. So I think, yeah, I think
(08:39):
I think Bradfield will be announced after Origin three. I
think the other two people who've been mentioned Cameron Smith
and Kevin Walters. Obviously Cameron Smith, you know, legendary player
and ex Kangaro's captain but has never coached to my knowledge,
at least at a at a senior level. And Kevin
Walter's coming off beings actual le broncos Wis Queensland coach
(09:03):
and as the numerous coaching gigs as Roy mccalloan's. But
I think I think Brad Feitler would be have those
three the best choices. Obviously it was Blues coach not
that long ago. He did okay, but he did very
well with Lebanon, and I think, as you said about Mail,
very I think he brought a lot of pride back
into the jumper and with you know, those players going
(09:25):
and Tomorrow and Tongy had to rebuild the whole kind
of kangaroos culture and the division between you so well
and Queensland as you know what origin is. Every year
it seems to be more bitter more what would you
say more, he's the contested So I think you've got
to bring those those two, those players from those two
states together for for Australia and you know, get everyone
(09:49):
singing on the same in street and I think he
has done that really really well. So it is yeah,
it's it's definitely. I think it definitely plays in England's favor.
How much it's hard to say, but it's definitely a
tick for for England with Australia having a shall we
stay rookie coach coming into the series.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Any other States of origin impacts do you think in
terms of players in form players out of form? I
mean one that springs to mind is the fitness of
Nathan Cleary. Yeah, and and and but also the form
of Nathan Cleary when he doesn't have a Penris jersey
on his back.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I think, yeah, I think I think the fitness is
the genuine concern. I think the form, I mean he
gets he gets bad for not dominating Origin, but I
don't think his origin record is that bad. I think
his record for Australia to the last World Cup was
very good. But I think on the place side, look
at Tommy did and he was phenomenal in Game two
(10:49):
for Queensland. Seems to be just getting better and better
as a player. I think he played for Australia last
year in the Pacific Championships. So Dce's time in that
jersey it's definitely over. But there's Monster, there's Deal, and
there's obviously Cleary, and there's you know, there's a backup
a few halves there. Obviously there won't be any Jeriam Lewie,
(11:10):
but there's Matt Burton who's played for Australia before. There's
a few other potentials, shall we say so, Yeah, it's
an interesting way with Clear. I don't know, let's talk
about it a doctor muscle how serious that injury is.
But yeah, he was obviously hurt playing in Game two
and it really limited him. And you know, I think
(11:31):
it was a number There was a number of factors
that went against easter Wells. You penalty count, they were
pretty poor, very poor in the first half their ball handling.
But I think the way they came back in the
second half just shows the talent that they've got. And yeah,
there's there'll be a few people who will put the
hand up, I think in this in this Origin series
who will be very strong Kangaroo's selection.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Rugby Football League needn't have worried about the third Test
being a decider and they could have just got Ashley
Klein to referee the first two tests.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Mhm, Well, I think you're based in Queensland and I'm
sure you've I'm presuming you've heard about the grasshopper back
in the days, and I think that was the that
was the call. But everyone's seemed to think that the
n RLS rigged the game so they can be the decider.
I'm not I'm not a believer on that.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Look.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
I think it's very rare. You get an eight mild
penalty account against you, and there's probably a few penalties
there that were harsh, but look best the way it
goes sometimes. But referee refereeing will be interesting because we've
not really had any talk about who will rest these tests.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I think I think I said it the last time
we chatted, mate. I think it will be an English
referee the first game and then when England beat them,
which which I can sort of see happening right because
of the things we've just hinted out. Okay, whoever is
(13:01):
the coach and whoever the management are will get together
with the English management, especially if there's a disciplinary issue
somewhere in the air, bit like Morley back in the
day twenty years ago, and say all right, we'll let
Morley play, but we want an Australian ref So there'll
be something like that go on unless it's sorted beforehand.
(13:22):
And I've got to be honest after this Origin series,
and I don't want to turn this into a political
rant about Origin or what I really don't so please
give it short swift if you want to. But there's
no doubt that there's a pattern in Origin, which is
the only thing we've got as a three game series
to look at here, the team in the second game
(13:46):
that lost Game one benefit from the penalty count either
in one half of the game or in the whole game.
I mean, we're talking seventy upwards based on the statistics.
So I hate to think that this series would the
Ashes series would be impacted by refereeing.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
But I just.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I I've I've had questions about some of the English
refereeing against Tonga again in the in the World Cup
challenges as well, from a genuine sporting perspective, rather than
wanting one team to win all the other. So anyway,
(14:27):
what we need to do is, but before before we
move on to the English thing, to still wrap up
things that are going on in Australia. Victor Radley keeps
getting knocked out.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, that's a big but I don't think I mean,
I know there's been there's been a few pieces in Australia,
but I don't think it that's been made. I think
he's sitting out for a month. But that's a huge Well,
it's a it's a big issue for England because you know,
he's been a key part since the last two three years,
since he came in one. But in saying that, and
I think, yeah, I think he will be in doubt
(15:01):
for Ash selection because the way he plays in how
many concussions he's had. But the flip side of that
it opens up for Elliott Mitchella and Elliott Mitchella. There's
probably a lot of people in Australia who don't watch
Super League or don't know much about it, but he
has been in a tremendous form for the last three years. Yeah,
he's a captain, a whole kr It was originally a
(15:22):
Leeds junior. He's had to kind of work his way
around the lower leagues and then move the whole car
but he's a phenomenal player, a thirteen, great ballhand of
a tough physical, great defender and he's whole are kind
of the success story the last two years. The obviously
just won the Challenge Cup final, their top of Super League.
(15:44):
And yeah, he's been knocking on the door for selection
for England for a while, but they've had some great
depth in that back row, you know, behind Morgan Oles
and behind Victor Radley. But yeah, he'd be he'd be
a great choice for England. So I think if Radley
is unavailable to be honest, it's looking like that's a
big chance, and then it happens away from each other.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
We need to each time we record, just suggest somebody
get NATed, because obviously the pressure that we applied on
the Actually Rugby League podcast led to King Charles anointing
Sir Billy Boston. Since the last time we spoke.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, I mean you've probably you've probably met Billy or
you obviously lived you worked with and I think you
probably lived in the area. I haven't had the pleasure
of meeting him, and you know, I think I don't
want to go too long into this, but I think
one of the things that rugby league doesn't do well
is recognized heroes of the past. And to be honest,
(16:47):
I wasn't aware, you know, and I'm you could probably
call me a rugby league tragic. I wasn't aware of
Billy and his history, and the same with people like
Brian Bevan until moving to the UK, people like Roy
France to have just finished reading a book. I mean,
there's absolute legends of the sport in the UK that
people in Australia don't well, some people don't recognize and
(17:08):
I think we probably don't in Australia, we don't necessarily
celebrate our heroes and past legends as well, so Billy
is a genuine legend. I think. Well, no one scored
more trist for Wigan. I think in terms of the
sport he may be the second highest triscorer ever after
Brian Beerman. And obviously a history maker, first black player
(17:28):
to tour Great Britain, came from Wales, you know, because
of racism, couldn't play rugby union for Cardiff and defected
to Wigan, and you know, just a legend of the
British game. And as you as you know, a lovely bloke,
very humble and yeah great to see him nighted long over,
(17:48):
do you know. I mean you can make a good
round about this as a as a left leaning individual, mate,
but no, it was a left leaning in individual, sorry socialist.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
No further from the truth. You must be talking to
my father.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
So boding I was going to say, no rugby leg
players have ever been knighted for his services to the sport. Obviously.
I think we've had Graham Lowe and Peter Leech and
a few other people who have been involved in rugby
league who been not a but no player X player,
(18:30):
a big, big monumental achievement, and you know, but a
class prejudice in the in the system. I'm not a
big fan of knighthoods. Personally, I'm a I'm a republican.
I'm not a monarchist, but.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Well I'm not. I'm not a royalist. And I would
have if if if they were to suggest, Sirly Addison,
the part of me that we just want to swe
around and say I'm sir, versus shove it up, shove
it where the sun don't shine kind of thing, would
would would cause some problems in my ma. And now,
Micky McLaurin was the hooker for England last time, and
(19:04):
he's about fifty six years old now, and that means
England probably need a new hooker for this for this
ASHES series and from the World Cup. I should say now,
when I was putting my notes together for this podcast
or just cooky and pastings, I accidentally put who will
be hooker for England and then Billy Boston underneath it.
(19:25):
So the first question is do you think Billy Boston
can fill that role?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
No, I think at ninety, you know, with a bit.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Older than Mickey mclauren. Then so you've mentioned a couple
of names. Jesse Litton his twenty seven plays for Hulkingston
Rovers there on the crest of a wave top of
Super League, won the Challenge Cup. Darryl Clark at St Helens.
He's thirty two, he's probably not been in great form.
Brad O'Neill that Wigan is only twenty two and he's
(19:56):
knocking on the door. But he also shares the hooking
duties of cut Wigan with Cruz Leaming, who's also played
for England in the past. At he's twenty nine years old.
So we've got a range of ages there. We've got
the young pupp in terms of Brad O'Neal, and we've
got those who are arguably in the peak Cruise Leaming
of Jess Litton, and then we've got somebody at the
(20:17):
older end, Daryl Clark. Which direction will Shane Sean Wayne going?
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Shane One won't be going any direction.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
But I do that in every podcast, every single podcast.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
To do that, I think it was Victor Radley's dad Niger,
when he was half cut on the Baby Stay, said
Shane Warner. That's one of the albums the great.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I bet Sean Wayne won min of crackert list early.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
He's not the only one I think a name for
throwing there. Also who's injured the moon is Danny Walker,
who's been, yeah, the the England hooker for last year
in previous years and he's he's been blighter by injury.
So he's the other one in there. But it's a
real tough selection because Darryl Clark I think was the
(21:06):
starting hooker and he's getting on not st Helen's not
having a great season and the one who's been killing
it has been Jess Lytton, much like Eli Minchella. He's
actually interestingly whole K signed Mickey McLaurin from Catlan's in
the last year and they've kind of been a tag team.
You know, Mickey plays the first half an hour and
then Jess comes in and Jazz is a very quick
(21:28):
kind of a Damian Cook. You I'm gonna I'm going
to call in the English to English Damien Cook obviously
when Damien was a bit younger and perhaps a bit quicker,
but without the beach sprinting. But yeah, he's very quick
out of dumb behalf attacking hooker. And then you've got
Cruz laming who's who's more similar but more of an
attacking with Bard O'Neil probably more of an old school,
(21:49):
you know, great defender grinder and that's you know, that's
probably more the Sean Wayne mold. I think brand O'Neil
is a big, a big chance for selection, but obviously
they'll be probably if not two Hawkers, will be three
probably in the wider squad, so it'll be a battle
to see who who he goes with there. I think
mclauren won't be won't be picked for some reason. He
(22:11):
doesn't seem to get Cruise Laming in there, even though
he's had a great couple of years. But I think
you know, Walker O'Neill and perhaps Litton particularly particularly a
little inform I mean, he's probably the most informed hooker
in Super League.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Jack Welby, England's normal fallback is out injured for a while.
What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, I think it's however many months. He he'll only
be fit right before the actually, so he may not
be able to play a game, any game unless now
I get a Grand Final, which I think everyone would
say is the long odds at this point. Yeah, he
won't be fit, so that is a huge blow. I
(22:56):
think match like malder party that as a massive, massive blow.
He's well probably first names on the sheet the team
sheet for for England. And the reason I like the
light replacement. You know, while austraying name fifty eight fullbacks,
England are quite the depth is quite low in that department.
You look around the competition and you've got you know,
(23:17):
joy Field who is eligible for England. But as you've
got Matt Dafty, you've got you know, you've got numerous
Austraian or you know artam Rga as French. So there's
not a huge amount of options. So that's a that's
a real worry for England.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Are you ready for your fortnight with Surprise? Well, because
you're part time monthly surprise you too, busy having junk
its every few weeks. I read a book this week
written by former Great Britain manager from Sulfur coach Les Bettinson,
who's no longer with us, but I had the pleasure
of meeting him back in the day. The book is
called In the lions Den and it's about the resurgence
(23:58):
of Great Britain rugby league between nineteen eighty four and
nineteen ninety. Now Great Britains Rugby League Revival, It says
in the subheading No, I don't know about you, but
I don't think that story was quite finished. I don't
think it ever got completely revived. But even though people
listening to this podcast now thinking is all they doing
(24:19):
is talking about English things. No, the questions are going
to ask you are quite generic in terms of both
Britain and England and Australia. The first thing that jumped
out to me from this book was the training methods
and off field habits in nineteen eighty six, so they,
for example, didn't there were part time players, Okay, okay,
(24:43):
but the game in England was actually genuinely in shock
because the nineteen eighty two Kangaroos had been and whipped
whipped everybody in front of them quite severely, and the
game was in shock. But it's actually worse now, isn't it,
Because England or Great Britain haven't beaten Australia for nineteen
years for one reason or another. So the first question
(25:08):
to you is how much should the British game put
into winning this ASHES series?
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah? I mean I think that should. I think that
should be punning everything into winning this Assua series. I
don't think that is the case, because I think there
was a story in the last week or two that
Sean Waynes might even have a training session, camp or
anything like that before the Ashes actually a period starts.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
We can just jump in there the book. Actually it
says they went into camp during it before this Ashes
series in September, and the series wasn't until mid October
and November obviously, So that's that's something that's regressed over
the years, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
It is And I think the other thing that probably
people in Australia don't realize is the amount of games
the Super League and the English players play. They've got
Challenge Cup games, more games in Super League than NRL,
so there doesn't seem to be any resting period. You know,
there's not going to be you know, the top England
(26:13):
players being rested because the England coach wants them to,
which you know, path players legends of England Great Britain
have said. I think it was Gareth Ellis in his
book not that long ago, in the amount of games.
I think Jamie Peacock said the same in his book
amount of games that they played against the end of
the reps at the end of the season for the
rep season and they're buggered. They're absolutely tired, So that's
(26:36):
that's another element. But I think they should be putting
everything because if England managed to win this ASHES series,
it's not going to solve all the problems of English
rugby League, but it would be you know, huge news.
It would get coverage that doesn't get in mainstream media
and it would be a huge halo effect for the whole sport,
so much like England winning the Rugby UNI World Cup
(26:59):
and and three. It would be massive, massive bonus for
the sports. So they should be putting everything into it.
But I don't think that is the case because you've
got so many competing self interest from the clubs. Then
you know the RFL is in a bit of a mess,
so yeah, there's probably not that joined up thinking. Now.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
You always say it's an advantage or potentially an advantage
that England have so many players playing in the NRL,
and most people tend to look at that as an advantage.
There's probably less than played in the Winfield Cup into
in nineteen eighty six because the seasons were different. Winter
season in both hemispheres, so a lot of players. A
(27:39):
lot of English players were playing in the in what
we now know is the NRL back then, so that
was something interesting that I noticed. In terms of coaching methods,
they used a psychologist. Now I would have thought that
that would have been quite significantly ahead of the curve.
This was Morris Amford, coach of Britain, who many would
(28:02):
have seen as a Fire and Brimstone coach. They used
a psychologist and one of the big things that they
were targeting was that players lacked in self esteem because
Australia had beaten them so often. And again I come
back to that and bring it to this modern era.
(28:24):
Do you think that fair still exists?
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, that's a really good question. I think the psychologist
or the psychology route, it's probably something England needs to
go down before this ash is route, because what is it? Yeah,
fifty fifty five years since the World Cup win.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
You know, Yeah, nineteen seventy two they won the World Cup.
Nineteen seventy was the last ASHES victory that was on
Australian soil. Nineteen fifty nine since the last one in
British soil.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, so fifty five years since an ASHES win and
you know, fifty three years since the World Cup and
I don't think anyone. I mean, people still do argue,
but anyone who watches Super Leg or NROL they know
what the better competition is in virtually every marker. That's
not to say Super League doesn't have value, It isn't
a good competition. There isn't good players, et cetera, et cetera,
(29:17):
et cetera. But that British players grow up with that
being drummed into them that the NROL is better. And
you know, they see the likes of Adrian Marley, Sam Burgess, Garapells,
et cetera, James Graham go over there and do so well,
and that's like wow, you know I want to follow
that path. So that's a big thing. I think they
need to know that they can be as good or
(29:39):
are as good and can beat them, because this surely
is on the back, you know, the back of their
shoulder or the back of their mind, a little bit
of a thing in the back of saying, you know,
can we beat them? Are we as good as them?
I think if you look at the World Cup challenges
in recent years, Wigan beating Penrith and Hell's Ben Penriff,
(30:00):
are they are able to beat them? So maybe that is.
I don't think it's necessarily I mean I don't know
this for a fact, but I don't think it's a
probably even will go down. But I think psychology and
mental belief is a huge thing in this series because
they have to not just you know, say they believe it.
I have to really believe that in three games they
(30:20):
can compete and they can defeat the Kangaroos in at
least two of those two of those at least two
of those three games. It's a huge thing.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Mister Bettinson said that they arrived in the North with
great media attention on Fanfair. Can you happen? Can you
can you predict this happening next time the Kangaroos.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
No, I mean I don't. I don't think there's going
to be Apart from Steve Mascot, I don't and you know,
the the Australian correspondence from probably Channel nine and maybe
the ABC in chill seven in in London. But yeah,
I don't think it's going to be fair fair at
the airport's like in previous years, the media, regular league
(31:02):
media segment in the UK is very very different times.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Moving on, so I'm going to do more of that
in the next time I see you on the podcast,
which knowing you'll probably be in about three months because
you're too busy drinking in different places. Now I spoke
to you prior to recording this as we're going to
talk about the nineteen ninety seven Super League Series. Now,
for those who don't know, the nineteen ninety seven Super
(31:30):
League Series was exactly what it says on the tin.
It was Britain playing against Australia those who were aligned
with super League rather than the ARL in Australia. Now
those records basically don't exist in Australia or in not
(31:51):
classed anymore. And I now want you to you said
to me, you're an ar man and you didn't gay
much attention to these Super League tests.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
As a as a sixteen.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Please yeah, please please tell because there'll be people who
were listening to this podcast who don't know why you
would have found that opinion.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Well, it's hard to probably for people who aren't as
old as us or you know, who were recent devotees
to the game, they've been diners. Was a crazy period
and I grew up in Newcastle, which is rugby League
Hertland and the Knights were sort of a key figure
in the ARL empire. Obviously Super League tried to take
(32:36):
over Newcastle, they tried to take over the Knights. They
couldn't do that, so they set up the Hand of Mariners.
There's a rival club which was never going to work,
but it was basically trying to damage the Knights. And
I was also a mainly fan and mainly were you know,
along with the Knights and probably the Roosters, the key
clubs in the ARL competition. You know, you had Bob
(32:58):
Fulton and Phil Gold of the Roosters, so it was
a very bit of time in Australia. You know, you
had you know, you had on one side you had Manly, Parramatta, Newcastle,
the Roosters, South North Sydney, et cetera, et cetera. And
then on the other side you had Cronulla and Canberra
the Broncos who also had North Queenslone, et cetera. So
(33:23):
you kind of there was a lot of hate. It
was like an Origin stop buried and the AARL still
had the sort of I guess the rights or the
control of international rugby league, so you didn't you know,
Origin was there was no Super League players allowed in Origin,
which led to the Crazy Series when the Queensland Battler's
(33:44):
won three in ill and then you know international footing.
I think I can remember watching the Kangaroos play the
rest of the world team, which was basically this cobble together.
You had Adrian Lamb, you had I think maybe Dennis Bets.
You had all these players because they couldn't play England
or Wales or whoever. You had cobbled together international opposition.
(34:05):
Marcus By I think maybe played for the rest of
the world.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Now.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Well, one thing, one thing you won't remember as well,
maybe or maybe maybe not. I was in France at
the time when when this was going on. Great Britain
Super League side actually went to New Zealand the year
before this and got beat three nil in New Zealand
and actually had to send players home because they were
running out of money, and the and the tour lost
(34:27):
loads of money. Do you remember that.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I don't. I don't remember at the time, but I
had read about that and how just how big of
a disaster. I mean, it's a common thing to her
many of the Australia or.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
That kind of disaster off fields after so the British
game was desperate to sort of recover something from from
this series. Basically, I went to the I went to
the first test Great Britain and Australia. Well you probably
probably can't refer to it as a test, but the
first match between Great in Australia. It was at Wembley
Stadium on the first November nineteen ninety seven. I was
(35:05):
on crutches because of damage maney playing the great game
of rugby league. Australia won thirty eight fourteen and Laurie
Daly was brilliant scorer hat trick. Brett Mullins two, Craig
Gower Darren Smith both scored. Ryan Girdler kicked five goals
for Britain. Jason Robinson, who had actually signed for an
(35:25):
IRL club but they gave him an exemption to play,
and James Lowell scored the tries and Andy Farrell kicked
three goals. The referee was Phil Houston from New Zealand,
who I've never heard of. Breaking news, by the way,
Jack de Bellin signed for Paramatta next season. Breaking news
which one of us is the journalist on this podcast.
(35:47):
He look at me on top of things. Yeah, So
that was at Wembley in front of a crowd of
forty one and thirty five. If that's the case this year,
will that be a failure for the r Yeah, the
massive fight.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I mean I just touched back on my brief way. Basically,
Australia the Aarl were isolated in the international rugby league sphere.
So you had the Kangaroos and then you had the
Super League Australian team, and players who were aligned with
Super League clubs couldn't play for the Kangaroos and Aarl
players couldn't be picked for the Super League's training side.
(36:22):
So it was a very weird time. And then you
had that, as you know, and not we talked. I
think we talked about the ninety five World Cup. You
had the Arl Ligne Kangaroos without Lorry Daily, without Ala
Langer and Bradley Clyde et cetera, going up and beating
England after losing to them in the first game, beating
him in the final. But yeah, I think Wembley, I
(36:44):
was at Wembley. I can't remember. It wasn't that long ago,
the Challenge Cup final. I think it was about sixty
three something like that. Sixty three thousand. I think the
aim is for seventy. I think anything below seventy, which
you know it's a ninety thousand, I think it's ninety
thousand is a big crowd. Is a big crowd. And
I think, to be honest, because we haven't had this
(37:05):
series for twenty two years, but it is a massive game.
You know, you've got England against Australia that pools in
some mutuals. You've also got a huge expact population of
Australians in London. You know, obviously some of those will
be AFL fans or non Rugby league fans, but you know,
it's Australia England. Whether it's tittley winks, marbles, cricket, tennis, basketball, whatever,
(37:32):
it's always a fiercely contested, dumb match, isn't it. So
I'd love to see, you know, well, i'd love to
see wouldn't be sold out. I don't think we're going
to sell it out, but I think, you know, seventy,
anything above seventy, possibly great eighty thousand would be amazing
and what an atmosphere, what an occasion that would that
would be?
Speaker 2 (37:52):
It's time. Who are the cultures of great Britain and
Australia for the Super League Series.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I'm going to say great Britain was it? Probably? He
was a probably Hillary Hayley. Was he no?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Andy Goodway and Andy Goodway linking my Les Bettinson thing right.
He pulled out of the nineteen eighty eight tour because
of business interests and then he was the coach ten
years later, nine years later coach of Australia.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
I'm going to go your guests either Wang Bennett or
Tim Shines, John Lang, John Lang, Okay, yeah, that was
probably my next he was He was Cronola coach in
those days.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
The second Test was at Old Trafford in Manchester. The
attendance was forty three hundred and twenty four. I'm not
going to tell you the result right now because I've
got some audio of the BBC commentary that I'm going
to put into the podcast now for everyone's enjoyment. Listen away.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
On the fifth sackle Galla, Paul sneaking through gets the
passing side. Walters is over excellent play down on that turblind.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
Side and as a good hooker should be. Steve Walters
lurking with intent down the blind side.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
He picks up the first try of the afternoon. Lows.
Oh the god, he's over the side the skipper. He
shot a straight up completely by surpriser.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
They're on looking for the pass and wide and the
fadel head On took matters into his own hands. And
it's great Briton sacking the lease. Australia battling to take
the initiative again.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Galu daily lock here this is dangerous. God, look out,
that's it's a cord pass or her positioning hind of
a preada a forward pass in in Australia.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, Deafney forward then richardson the smith and grid positioning
twelve points.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
To six pers aveling Lokia.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Great's still in the attack, lawns to Carna.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
He got support, a head on the line. Stop, how
he gonna turned ski Lets get to do. We're gonna
tell he's entered the corner. Still Australians on the picture.
Steam poets to Joy still Australian part of personal. It's
a journey. Coward timing in the underneath the pulse. A
(40:55):
fatal slipped on my opening and a little bit of
a problem. Whenness he collects the two points, the horse
go all around.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
This, So hold truff Shadi and the flames away I
d Britain eight twelve in the lead, we'll take.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
About he's gone down the room. It's it's still going.
He's gives tis a tack, my skip a panty not shining.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
That's not a sinding that he is a professional farn Again,
Schmid knew exactly what he was doing.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
It's a fantastic table. I'm not priniser. And yes he's
not loving a pot. He's God knows up.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
He's just on a good part of the fields.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
He possibly clan the cremendous taking a great run. But
Schmid holds him down there. Johnny holds his legs down.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Here, y French, all right, John, you you were tickling.
(42:22):
You were tickled pink there by Ray French on the commentary.
Oh now then John Davidson down the flank and working
with intent. I grew up with him.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
I thought you grew up with Eddie wearing your poor
lad you.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
You probably gathered from the audio Great Britain twenty Australia twelve,
Andy Farrell Jason Robinson with the tries for Britain. Andy
Farrell had seven cracks of gold for one reason or
another and kicked six of them. That suggests to me
that they got some penalties and at one point that
Gordon Tallis punched the floor in frustration. He got sim
(43:07):
bind and you know he was the bad boy of
the day.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Not available for him.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
For Australia, Steve Walters Craig Gower scored their two tries
and Darren Locker kicked two from two to make their
score of twelve, so a big thing from that. Great
Britain dropped three players after the first Test, Mick Cassidy,
Anthony O'Sullivan and Dean Sampson. Martin Crompton was also sacked
(43:38):
from the squad after failing to report to training. So
very interesting alright. The third Test was on Sunday, the
sixteenth November nineteen ninety seven. That was at ellen Road.
Leads attendance thirty nine, three hundred and thirty seven, so
three attendances around about the forty thousand mark won't be
(43:58):
possible this time because of the third Test is at
Headingley nearly.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
A sellout then, and that was an interesting one because
I think that was the that was the other stadium
that was in the mix. Obviously owen Road much much
bigger than Headingley in the same city the tim of
Legion order, but yeah, they've they went with the safer
choice of Headingley.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
The score was thirty seven twenty to Australia. Simon Horton
scored two tries for Great Britain. Jason Robinson scored another,
Andy Farrell four goals Australia. Wendell Sailor to Ken Nagus
scored a try, Laurie Daily, Brad Thorne, Robbie Robbie Kerns,
Darren Smith, Ryan Girdler four goals and a field goal
(44:43):
by Darren Lockyer. Now, before we wrap up, did you
know that Australia have never lost at Ellen Road against
Great Britain or England.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
I did not know that.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Interesting Now, obviously in the podcast over the last few
weeks we've been going through team lists, so some of
the new names on the British side that we've not
necessarily mentioned Paul Aherson played Alan Hunt, played Simon Horton,
who were mentioned already. Steve McNamara, the recently slept Catalan's coach,
(45:24):
was on the bench. Mike Foreshaw was starting his international
career at that time for the Australian side. Darren Lucky
was in there. Kenny Nagas who we've mentioned, scoring a
try and not many people would associate it him with
representing Australia. Ryan Girdler played much of his Australian Test
(45:48):
stuff during this time. Craig Gower was in in the
half back Jersey front row, Brad Thorne, Jason Stevens, Brad
Clyde made it in the second role, so he was
still running around then. Darren Smith was a lock, Matt Adamson,
Brett Carmalley and an old Saint Greg's boy. Russell Richardson
(46:10):
was on the bench.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I remember after interesting from his days at South and
then he used to own a nightclub in Newcastle. You
almost had a trying to get a taxi outside his
nightclub one time. I almost had a few words with
him many years ago. Seems like a lovely seller.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
And then he went to Cronora I think, and he
carved up half the Super League side during the nineteen
ninety seven World Club Challenge. So yeah, a bit of
a flashback to nineteen ninety seven, John Where can people
get hold of you?
Speaker 1 (46:45):
They can get hold of me on ex Johnny D Davidson.
They can get me on my podcast by the balls,
but also get me on Patreon on a Rugby league
hub dot com longreads come and joined for rugular stories
from Super League, ENNERL and everywhere else.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
And I can be found at Rugby League Coach dot
com dot au. Admin at Rugby League Coach dot com
dot au is the email addressed at Rugby League Coach
on Socials xs RL coach on the Net. All the best, John,
Thank you very much thanks to the listeners. Take care
I had a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hello and welcome to Ash's Rugby League Podcast, Episode six.
My name is Lee Addison.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
And I'm John Dentson.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Be sure it took your while. Then again each fortnite
joined myself and John for analysis, news, interviews with guests, history,
lessons and lots more every fortnight to help wet your
appetite for the twenty twenty five series between England and Australia.
Over in England, I'm an Englishman who's coached at NROL
clubs and lived in Australia a long time. John is
(00:31):
an Australian journalist based in the UK for many a
year and is also a part time podcaster with me
because last time we tried to get a recording together
is too busy on a junkit at Lord's.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I was Strength and Africas it's a good day.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
It would have been a good day day one, because
it just went south into it after that after maybe
day four was it it went went in South Africa's direction.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yeah, I think what I was foring Wickers the first
I was there. I think day three Stark and Haz Yeah,
I think it was Stark and Commings are in a
good position. I think, what two seveny ahead but there.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
To win, so unlike unlike my team who can clinch
victory from the jaws of defeat. I was just telling
you before we started recording how I stayed up to
watch the England run chase against India in the first
Test and successful run chase too. So it's going to
be an interesting other ashes this year, isn't it, John?
The The England team going down Under for the cricket ashes.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
That's what it's all about me. I mean, obviously that
it was a World Championship final, but look as song
as we win the Ashes, and I'm pretty confidently will
in the right league, then that's all that matters. Those
are the bragging rights that they count.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And I mean I really shouldn't mentioned this sport on
this podcast, but the rugby union version. The British Lions
are heading down south here to Australia to play the Wallabies.
And I actually did a post the other day. I
don't know if you saw it, John, lamenting the fact
that we've allowed these rugby league ashes tours to disappear
from the rugby league ether.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, I mean, and the British and Irish lines led
by a rugby league legend and no I did say
that post and it's a great point. I mean, the
British and Irish Lines is a is a massive venture
in rugby union and money making huge media attention, excuse me.
And it is sad that we've we've let our Ashes
(02:36):
wither on the vine because it has got a long
and very proud history which we're exploring this podcast. But
thankfully we've got it back and we can we can
build on this series in series to come and hopefully
make it even even bigger and better in the future.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I've got a warning for you for future future podcast
weeks or fortnites. That is, I've been reading some what
I've been sourcing and finding some old books on British
rugby league, Australian rugby league Ashes series, et cetera. So
I'll be telling you a little bit later about a
booker read that I always like to surprise you on
(03:11):
this podcast with something, right, But the next one I'm
going to read is about the Rocks Drift Test in
nineteen fourteen, I think, so something of that talek anyway,
So yeah, we're only going to get deeper into history.
You can get me at Rugby League Coach dot com
dot au, admin at Rugby League Coach dot com dot
(03:33):
Au or at Rugby League coachs on socials, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok.
Message me on those first two if you can, John,
I'll let you go through your contact details because I
always get them wrong.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, you can get me on x Johnny d Davidson
and on Patreon, Rugby League hub dot com longreads.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
If somebody wants to send you an email, they can
can't be at journalist dot John Davidson at gmail dot
com John, And yes.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
That's right, they can get me there and just several
of the abuse to lay and just the nice messages
to me. Thanks.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I'm hoping to see in a few months John, when
I bring an ASHES tour down to up to the
UK and people can contact me on those details if
they're interested on doing that. And actually right now I'm
doing a initiative where anybody who buys anything off me
right now instead of doing an end of year financial
(04:30):
and the financial year sale in Australia, I'm doing a
buy something off me, even if it's just my book,
to get into a draw to win two two plane
tickets to the Ashes. So let's talk about the Ashes.
Has been quite a bit go on since the last
time I came face to face with you. Did you
listen to the vassal Acopolis One thought? I thought it
(04:53):
was intriguing that he played against them when he was
eighteen and then again when he was twenty eight and
the different surroundings.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Was Oh, definitely. It's an amazing story. And I know
on LinkedIn a lot of people were getting in touch
about that podcast and we're interested and it is a
it is quite a unique story there.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, and I just think as well the fact that
really he's an Englishman who happens to be in America now,
but he spent his young life going to the video
shop to get Winfield Cup take. So that was a
bit that got me so last Sorry you guys.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
That seems to be spoken on a few people in
the UK and what the late eighties early nineties, that
was kind of the thing, wasn't it. You know, you'd
wait a week to get the games. And it's just
amazing how much the model has changed. And now you
can be on the other side of the world and
you can watch every NRL game live everything, and yeah,
(05:51):
it's a different, very different broadcast market, but the passion
is still there for the product.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Since we last spoke in person on this, crass Malmaninga
is no longer the Kangaroos culp.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, it's huge news, isn't it. I mean, I think
remember in twenty twenty two, Mel did a bit of
a speaking tour after the World Cup and he said,
you know, I'm not sure. You know, I've got one
year left on my contract. I'm not sure if I
want to know continue on. I love the job. But
he've been doing it a long time. I think something
(06:24):
like since fifteen off the top of my head. Then
he's had huge success. Obviously two World Cup wins, lots
of other things, but he seemed very he was key
in getting this Ashes series back on. He's you know,
I think I think he's the only players have gone
on for Kangaroo tours, massive believer in the international game.
(06:47):
And obviously he played, you know, at Saint Helens and
there's a legend there, so he's got a lot of
love for the British game. So he was very, very
influential in getting it back on. And I don't think
anyone saw at first that coming because he hasn't coached
at nurro level for twenty odd years, so you know
his success as many as the rep coach of coins
(07:08):
Owd in Australia, so big. I think it's a big
blow for the Kangaroos. It looks like pretty Fitler will
be the coach. Not that that's been confirming in but
that seems to be the consensus. But I think it
is a blow for Australia. I mean, his first game,
Freddie Philler's first game in charge will probably be the
(07:29):
first Tests of Wembley, so absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
And I don't I think it's such big news because
I I'm a big fan of what malmon Inga has
done with the Kangaroos. I think it's been one of
the toughest periods ever to be the Kangaroos coach in
light of the fact that the players have been moving
to different countries. I think the only comparative period was
(07:52):
the Super League period when when the game was split,
and we're going to go into a bit more detail
about that later, but I think that they also also
the concerning thing is why Brad Fidler hasn't been announced yet.
If Brad Fidler is the coach. Now, does that mean
that other people have put their hands up and the
going to have a discussion about it? Are they're waiting
for the end of the Orange Series. I think all
(08:12):
these things actually play into England's hands.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, no, I agree, I think they do. I think
I think it gives England a bit of a boost.
I think I think you are right in that they'll
wait till the Origin series has gone. They've obviously, you know,
they're setting out Perth and P and G and the
n RL's kind of shown that I can't do four
or five different things at the one time. They're not
great at spitting plays. So I think, yeah, I think
(08:39):
I think Bradfield will be announced after Origin three. I
think the other two people who've been mentioned Cameron Smith
and Kevin Walters. Obviously Cameron Smith, you know, legendary player
and ex Kangaro's captain but has never coached to my knowledge,
at least at a at a senior level. And Kevin
Walter's coming off beings actual le broncos Wis Queensland coach
(09:03):
and as the numerous coaching gigs as Roy mccalloan's. But
I think I think Brad Feitler would be have those
three the best choices. Obviously it was Blues coach not
that long ago. He did okay, but he did very
well with Lebanon, and I think, as you said about Mail,
very I think he brought a lot of pride back
into the jumper and with you know, those players going
(09:25):
and Tomorrow and Tongy had to rebuild the whole kind
of kangaroos culture and the division between you so well
and Queensland as you know what origin is. Every year
it seems to be more bitter more what would you
say more, he's the contested So I think you've got
to bring those those two, those players from those two
states together for for Australia and you know, get everyone
(09:49):
singing on the same in street and I think he
has done that really really well. So it is yeah,
it's it's definitely. I think it definitely plays in England's favor.
How much it's hard to say, but it's definitely a
tick for for England with Australia having a shall we
stay rookie coach coming into the series.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Any other States of origin impacts do you think in
terms of players in form players out of form? I
mean one that springs to mind is the fitness of
Nathan Cleary. Yeah, and and and but also the form
of Nathan Cleary when he doesn't have a Penris jersey
on his back.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I think, yeah, I think I think the fitness is
the genuine concern. I think the form, I mean he
gets he gets bad for not dominating Origin, but I
don't think his origin record is that bad. I think
his record for Australia to the last World Cup was
very good. But I think on the place side, look
at Tommy did and he was phenomenal in Game two
(10:49):
for Queensland. Seems to be just getting better and better
as a player. I think he played for Australia last
year in the Pacific Championships. So Dce's time in that
jersey it's definitely over. But there's Monster, there's Deal, and
there's obviously Cleary, and there's you know, there's a backup
a few halves there. Obviously there won't be any Jeriam Lewie,
(11:10):
but there's Matt Burton who's played for Australia before. There's
a few other potentials, shall we say so, Yeah, it's
an interesting way with Clear. I don't know, let's talk
about it a doctor muscle how serious that injury is.
But yeah, he was obviously hurt playing in Game two
and it really limited him. And you know, I think
(11:31):
it was a number There was a number of factors
that went against easter Wells. You penalty count, they were
pretty poor, very poor in the first half their ball handling.
But I think the way they came back in the
second half just shows the talent that they've got. And yeah,
there's there'll be a few people who will put the
hand up, I think in this in this Origin series
who will be very strong Kangaroo's selection.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Rugby Football League needn't have worried about the third Test
being a decider and they could have just got Ashley
Klein to referee the first two tests.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Mhm, Well, I think you're based in Queensland and I'm
sure you've I'm presuming you've heard about the grasshopper back
in the days, and I think that was the that
was the call. But everyone's seemed to think that the
n RLS rigged the game so they can be the decider.
I'm not I'm not a believer on that.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Look.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
I think it's very rare. You get an eight mild
penalty account against you, and there's probably a few penalties
there that were harsh, but look best the way it
goes sometimes. But referee refereeing will be interesting because we've
not really had any talk about who will rest these tests.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I think I think I said it the last time
we chatted, mate. I think it will be an English
referee the first game and then when England beat them,
which which I can sort of see happening right because
of the things we've just hinted out. Okay, whoever is
(13:01):
the coach and whoever the management are will get together
with the English management, especially if there's a disciplinary issue
somewhere in the air, bit like Morley back in the
day twenty years ago, and say all right, we'll let
Morley play, but we want an Australian ref So there'll
be something like that go on unless it's sorted beforehand.
(13:22):
And I've got to be honest after this Origin series,
and I don't want to turn this into a political
rant about Origin or what I really don't so please
give it short swift if you want to. But there's
no doubt that there's a pattern in Origin, which is
the only thing we've got as a three game series
to look at here, the team in the second game
(13:46):
that lost Game one benefit from the penalty count either
in one half of the game or in the whole game.
I mean, we're talking seventy upwards based on the statistics.
So I hate to think that this series would the
Ashes series would be impacted by refereeing.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
But I just.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I I've I've had questions about some of the English
refereeing against Tonga again in the in the World Cup
challenges as well, from a genuine sporting perspective, rather than
wanting one team to win all the other. So anyway,
(14:27):
what we need to do is, but before before we
move on to the English thing, to still wrap up
things that are going on in Australia. Victor Radley keeps
getting knocked out.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, that's a big but I don't think I mean,
I know there's been there's been a few pieces in Australia,
but I don't think it that's been made. I think
he's sitting out for a month. But that's a huge Well,
it's a it's a big issue for England because you know,
he's been a key part since the last two three years,
since he came in one. But in saying that, and
I think, yeah, I think he will be in doubt
(15:01):
for Ash selection because the way he plays in how
many concussions he's had. But the flip side of that
it opens up for Elliott Mitchella and Elliott Mitchella. There's
probably a lot of people in Australia who don't watch
Super League or don't know much about it, but he
has been in a tremendous form for the last three years. Yeah,
he's a captain, a whole kr It was originally a
(15:22):
Leeds junior. He's had to kind of work his way
around the lower leagues and then move the whole car
but he's a phenomenal player, a thirteen, great ballhand of
a tough physical, great defender and he's whole are kind
of the success story the last two years. The obviously
just won the Challenge Cup final, their top of Super League.
(15:44):
And yeah, he's been knocking on the door for selection
for England for a while, but they've had some great
depth in that back row, you know, behind Morgan Oles
and behind Victor Radley. But yeah, he'd be he'd be
a great choice for England. So I think if Radley
is unavailable to be honest, it's looking like that's a
big chance, and then it happens away from each other.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
We need to each time we record, just suggest somebody
get NATed, because obviously the pressure that we applied on
the Actually Rugby League podcast led to King Charles anointing
Sir Billy Boston. Since the last time we spoke.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, I mean you've probably you've probably met Billy or
you obviously lived you worked with and I think you
probably lived in the area. I haven't had the pleasure
of meeting him, and you know, I think I don't
want to go too long into this, but I think
one of the things that rugby league doesn't do well
is recognized heroes of the past. And to be honest,
(16:47):
I wasn't aware, you know, and I'm you could probably
call me a rugby league tragic. I wasn't aware of
Billy and his history, and the same with people like
Brian Bevan until moving to the UK, people like Roy
France to have just finished reading a book. I mean,
there's absolute legends of the sport in the UK that
people in Australia don't well, some people don't recognize and
(17:08):
I think we probably don't in Australia, we don't necessarily
celebrate our heroes and past legends as well, so Billy
is a genuine legend. I think. Well, no one scored
more trist for Wigan. I think in terms of the
sport he may be the second highest triscorer ever after
Brian Beerman. And obviously a history maker, first black player
(17:28):
to tour Great Britain, came from Wales, you know, because
of racism, couldn't play rugby union for Cardiff and defected
to Wigan, and you know, just a legend of the
British game. And as you as you know, a lovely bloke,
very humble and yeah great to see him nighted long over,
(17:48):
do you know. I mean you can make a good
round about this as a as a left leaning individual, mate,
but no, it was a left leaning in individual, sorry socialist.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
No further from the truth. You must be talking to
my father.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
So boding I was going to say, no rugby leg
players have ever been knighted for his services to the sport. Obviously.
I think we've had Graham Lowe and Peter Leech and
a few other people who have been involved in rugby
league who been not a but no player X player,
(18:30):
a big, big monumental achievement, and you know, but a
class prejudice in the in the system. I'm not a
big fan of knighthoods. Personally, I'm a I'm a republican.
I'm not a monarchist, but.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Well I'm not. I'm not a royalist. And I would
have if if if they were to suggest, Sirly Addison,
the part of me that we just want to swe
around and say I'm sir, versus shove it up, shove
it where the sun don't shine kind of thing, would
would would cause some problems in my ma. And now,
Micky McLaurin was the hooker for England last time, and
(19:04):
he's about fifty six years old now, and that means
England probably need a new hooker for this for this
ASHES series and from the World Cup. I should say now,
when I was putting my notes together for this podcast
or just cooky and pastings, I accidentally put who will
be hooker for England and then Billy Boston underneath it.
(19:25):
So the first question is do you think Billy Boston
can fill that role?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
No, I think at ninety, you know, with a bit.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Older than Mickey mclauren. Then so you've mentioned a couple
of names. Jesse Litton his twenty seven plays for Hulkingston
Rovers there on the crest of a wave top of
Super League, won the Challenge Cup. Darryl Clark at St Helens.
He's thirty two, he's probably not been in great form.
Brad O'Neill that Wigan is only twenty two and he's
(19:56):
knocking on the door. But he also shares the hooking
duties of cut Wigan with Cruz Leaming, who's also played
for England in the past. At he's twenty nine years old.
So we've got a range of ages there. We've got
the young pupp in terms of Brad O'Neal, and we've
got those who are arguably in the peak Cruise Leaming
of Jess Litton, and then we've got somebody at the
(20:17):
older end, Daryl Clark. Which direction will Shane Sean Wayne going?
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Shane One won't be going any direction.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
But I do that in every podcast, every single podcast.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
To do that, I think it was Victor Radley's dad Niger,
when he was half cut on the Baby Stay, said
Shane Warner. That's one of the albums the great.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I bet Sean Wayne won min of crackert list early.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
He's not the only one I think a name for
throwing there. Also who's injured the moon is Danny Walker,
who's been, yeah, the the England hooker for last year
in previous years and he's he's been blighter by injury.
So he's the other one in there. But it's a
real tough selection because Darryl Clark I think was the
(21:06):
starting hooker and he's getting on not st Helen's not
having a great season and the one who's been killing
it has been Jess Lytton, much like Eli Minchella. He's
actually interestingly whole K signed Mickey McLaurin from Catlan's in
the last year and they've kind of been a tag team.
You know, Mickey plays the first half an hour and
then Jess comes in and Jazz is a very quick
(21:28):
kind of a Damian Cook. You I'm gonna I'm going
to call in the English to English Damien Cook obviously
when Damien was a bit younger and perhaps a bit quicker,
but without the beach sprinting. But yeah, he's very quick
out of dumb behalf attacking hooker. And then you've got
Cruz laming who's who's more similar but more of an
attacking with Bard O'Neil probably more of an old school,
(21:49):
you know, great defender grinder and that's you know, that's
probably more the Sean Wayne mold. I think brand O'Neil
is a big, a big chance for selection, but obviously
they'll be probably if not two Hawkers, will be three
probably in the wider squad, so it'll be a battle
to see who who he goes with there. I think
mclauren won't be won't be picked for some reason. He
(22:11):
doesn't seem to get Cruise Laming in there, even though
he's had a great couple of years. But I think
you know, Walker O'Neill and perhaps Litton particularly particularly a
little inform I mean, he's probably the most informed hooker
in Super League.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Jack Welby, England's normal fallback is out injured for a while.
What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, I think it's however many months. He he'll only
be fit right before the actually, so he may not
be able to play a game, any game unless now
I get a Grand Final, which I think everyone would
say is the long odds at this point. Yeah, he
won't be fit, so that is a huge blow. I
(22:56):
think match like malder party that as a massive, massive blow.
He's well probably first names on the sheet the team
sheet for for England. And the reason I like the
light replacement. You know, while austraying name fifty eight fullbacks,
England are quite the depth is quite low in that department.
You look around the competition and you've got you know,
(23:17):
joy Field who is eligible for England. But as you've
got Matt Dafty, you've got you know, you've got numerous
Austraian or you know artam Rga as French. So there's
not a huge amount of options. So that's a that's
a real worry for England.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Are you ready for your fortnight with Surprise? Well, because
you're part time monthly surprise you too, busy having junk
its every few weeks. I read a book this week
written by former Great Britain manager from Sulfur coach Les Bettinson,
who's no longer with us, but I had the pleasure
of meeting him back in the day. The book is
called In the lions Den and it's about the resurgence
(23:58):
of Great Britain rugby league between nineteen eighty four and
nineteen ninety. Now Great Britains Rugby League Revival, It says
in the subheading No, I don't know about you, but
I don't think that story was quite finished. I don't
think it ever got completely revived. But even though people
listening to this podcast now thinking is all they doing
(24:19):
is talking about English things. No, the questions are going
to ask you are quite generic in terms of both
Britain and England and Australia. The first thing that jumped
out to me from this book was the training methods
and off field habits in nineteen eighty six, so they,
for example, didn't there were part time players, Okay, okay,
(24:43):
but the game in England was actually genuinely in shock
because the nineteen eighty two Kangaroos had been and whipped
whipped everybody in front of them quite severely, and the
game was in shock. But it's actually worse now, isn't it,
Because England or Great Britain haven't beaten Australia for nineteen
years for one reason or another. So the first question
(25:08):
to you is how much should the British game put
into winning this ASHES series?
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah? I mean I think that should. I think that
should be punning everything into winning this Assua series. I
don't think that is the case, because I think there
was a story in the last week or two that
Sean Waynes might even have a training session, camp or
anything like that before the Ashes actually a period starts.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
We can just jump in there the book. Actually it
says they went into camp during it before this Ashes
series in September, and the series wasn't until mid October
and November obviously, So that's that's something that's regressed over
the years, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
It is And I think the other thing that probably
people in Australia don't realize is the amount of games
the Super League and the English players play. They've got
Challenge Cup games, more games in Super League than NRL,
so there doesn't seem to be any resting period. You know,
there's not going to be you know, the top England
(26:13):
players being rested because the England coach wants them to,
which you know, path players legends of England Great Britain
have said. I think it was Gareth Ellis in his
book not that long ago, in the amount of games.
I think Jamie Peacock said the same in his book
amount of games that they played against the end of
the reps at the end of the season for the
rep season and they're buggered. They're absolutely tired, So that's
(26:36):
that's another element. But I think they should be putting
everything because if England managed to win this ASHES series,
it's not going to solve all the problems of English
rugby League, but it would be you know, huge news.
It would get coverage that doesn't get in mainstream media
and it would be a huge halo effect for the whole sport,
so much like England winning the Rugby UNI World Cup
(26:59):
and and three. It would be massive, massive bonus for
the sports. So they should be putting everything into it.
But I don't think that is the case because you've
got so many competing self interest from the clubs. Then
you know the RFL is in a bit of a mess,
so yeah, there's probably not that joined up thinking. Now.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
You always say it's an advantage or potentially an advantage
that England have so many players playing in the NRL,
and most people tend to look at that as an advantage.
There's probably less than played in the Winfield Cup into
in nineteen eighty six because the seasons were different. Winter
season in both hemispheres, so a lot of players. A
(27:39):
lot of English players were playing in the in what
we now know is the NRL back then, so that
was something interesting that I noticed. In terms of coaching methods,
they used a psychologist. Now I would have thought that
that would have been quite significantly ahead of the curve.
This was Morris Amford, coach of Britain, who many would
(28:02):
have seen as a Fire and Brimstone coach. They used
a psychologist and one of the big things that they
were targeting was that players lacked in self esteem because
Australia had beaten them so often. And again I come
back to that and bring it to this modern era.
(28:24):
Do you think that fair still exists?
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, that's a really good question. I think the psychologist
or the psychology route, it's probably something England needs to
go down before this ash is route, because what is it? Yeah,
fifty fifty five years since the World Cup win.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
You know, Yeah, nineteen seventy two they won the World Cup.
Nineteen seventy was the last ASHES victory that was on
Australian soil. Nineteen fifty nine since the last one in
British soil.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, so fifty five years since an ASHES win and
you know, fifty three years since the World Cup and
I don't think anyone. I mean, people still do argue,
but anyone who watches Super Leg or NROL they know
what the better competition is in virtually every marker. That's
not to say Super League doesn't have value, It isn't
a good competition. There isn't good players, et cetera, et cetera,
(29:17):
et cetera. But that British players grow up with that
being drummed into them that the NROL is better. And
you know, they see the likes of Adrian Marley, Sam Burgess, Garapells,
et cetera, James Graham go over there and do so well,
and that's like wow, you know I want to follow
that path. So that's a big thing. I think they
need to know that they can be as good or
(29:39):
are as good and can beat them, because this surely
is on the back, you know, the back of their
shoulder or the back of their mind, a little bit
of a thing in the back of saying, you know,
can we beat them? Are we as good as them?
I think if you look at the World Cup challenges
in recent years, Wigan beating Penrith and Hell's Ben Penriff,
(30:00):
are they are able to beat them? So maybe that is.
I don't think it's necessarily I mean I don't know
this for a fact, but I don't think it's a
probably even will go down. But I think psychology and
mental belief is a huge thing in this series because
they have to not just you know, say they believe it.
I have to really believe that in three games they
(30:20):
can compete and they can defeat the Kangaroos in at
least two of those two of those at least two
of those three games. It's a huge thing.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Mister Bettinson said that they arrived in the North with
great media attention on Fanfair. Can you happen? Can you
can you predict this happening next time the Kangaroos.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
No, I mean I don't. I don't think there's going
to be Apart from Steve Mascot, I don't and you know,
the the Australian correspondence from probably Channel nine and maybe
the ABC in chill seven in in London. But yeah,
I don't think it's going to be fair fair at
the airport's like in previous years, the media, regular league
(31:02):
media segment in the UK is very very different times.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Moving on, so I'm going to do more of that
in the next time I see you on the podcast,
which knowing you'll probably be in about three months because
you're too busy drinking in different places. Now I spoke
to you prior to recording this as we're going to
talk about the nineteen ninety seven Super League Series. Now,
for those who don't know, the nineteen ninety seven Super
(31:30):
League Series was exactly what it says on the tin.
It was Britain playing against Australia those who were aligned
with super League rather than the ARL in Australia. Now
those records basically don't exist in Australia or in not
(31:51):
classed anymore. And I now want you to you said
to me, you're an ar man and you didn't gay
much attention to these Super League tests.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
As a as a sixteen.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Please yeah, please please tell because there'll be people who
were listening to this podcast who don't know why you
would have found that opinion.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Well, it's hard to probably for people who aren't as
old as us or you know, who were recent devotees
to the game, they've been diners. Was a crazy period
and I grew up in Newcastle, which is rugby League
Hertland and the Knights were sort of a key figure
in the ARL empire. Obviously Super League tried to take
(32:36):
over Newcastle, they tried to take over the Knights. They
couldn't do that, so they set up the Hand of Mariners.
There's a rival club which was never going to work,
but it was basically trying to damage the Knights. And
I was also a mainly fan and mainly were you know,
along with the Knights and probably the Roosters, the key
clubs in the ARL competition. You know, you had Bob
(32:58):
Fulton and Phil Gold of the Roosters, so it was
a very bit of time in Australia. You know, you
had you know, you had on one side you had Manly, Parramatta, Newcastle,
the Roosters, South North Sydney, et cetera, et cetera. And
then on the other side you had Cronulla and Canberra
the Broncos who also had North Queenslone, et cetera. So
(33:23):
you kind of there was a lot of hate. It
was like an Origin stop buried and the AARL still
had the sort of I guess the rights or the
control of international rugby league, so you didn't you know,
Origin was there was no Super League players allowed in Origin,
which led to the Crazy Series when the Queensland Battler's
(33:44):
won three in ill and then you know international footing.
I think I can remember watching the Kangaroos play the
rest of the world team, which was basically this cobble together.
You had Adrian Lamb, you had I think maybe Dennis Bets.
You had all these players because they couldn't play England
or Wales or whoever. You had cobbled together international opposition.
(34:05):
Marcus By I think maybe played for the rest of
the world.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Now.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Well, one thing, one thing you won't remember as well,
maybe or maybe maybe not. I was in France at
the time when when this was going on. Great Britain
Super League side actually went to New Zealand the year
before this and got beat three nil in New Zealand
and actually had to send players home because they were
running out of money, and the and the tour lost
(34:27):
loads of money. Do you remember that.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I don't. I don't remember at the time, but I
had read about that and how just how big of
a disaster. I mean, it's a common thing to her
many of the Australia or.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
That kind of disaster off fields after so the British
game was desperate to sort of recover something from from
this series. Basically, I went to the I went to
the first test Great Britain and Australia. Well you probably
probably can't refer to it as a test, but the
first match between Great in Australia. It was at Wembley
Stadium on the first November nineteen ninety seven. I was
(35:05):
on crutches because of damage maney playing the great game
of rugby league. Australia won thirty eight fourteen and Laurie
Daly was brilliant scorer hat trick. Brett Mullins two, Craig
Gower Darren Smith both scored. Ryan Girdler kicked five goals
for Britain. Jason Robinson, who had actually signed for an
(35:25):
IRL club but they gave him an exemption to play,
and James Lowell scored the tries and Andy Farrell kicked
three goals. The referee was Phil Houston from New Zealand,
who I've never heard of. Breaking news, by the way,
Jack de Bellin signed for Paramatta next season. Breaking news
which one of us is the journalist on this podcast.
(35:47):
He look at me on top of things. Yeah, So
that was at Wembley in front of a crowd of
forty one and thirty five. If that's the case this year,
will that be a failure for the r Yeah, the
massive fight.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I mean I just touched back on my brief way. Basically,
Australia the Aarl were isolated in the international rugby league sphere.
So you had the Kangaroos and then you had the
Super League Australian team, and players who were aligned with
Super League clubs couldn't play for the Kangaroos and Aarl
players couldn't be picked for the Super League's training side.
(36:22):
So it was a very weird time. And then you
had that, as you know, and not we talked. I
think we talked about the ninety five World Cup. You
had the Arl Ligne Kangaroos without Lorry Daily, without Ala
Langer and Bradley Clyde et cetera, going up and beating
England after losing to them in the first game, beating
him in the final. But yeah, I think Wembley, I
(36:44):
was at Wembley. I can't remember. It wasn't that long ago,
the Challenge Cup final. I think it was about sixty
three something like that. Sixty three thousand. I think the
aim is for seventy. I think anything below seventy, which
you know it's a ninety thousand, I think it's ninety
thousand is a big crowd. Is a big crowd. And
I think, to be honest, because we haven't had this
(37:05):
series for twenty two years, but it is a massive game.
You know, you've got England against Australia that pools in
some mutuals. You've also got a huge expact population of
Australians in London. You know, obviously some of those will
be AFL fans or non Rugby league fans, but you know,
it's Australia England. Whether it's tittley winks, marbles, cricket, tennis, basketball, whatever,
(37:32):
it's always a fiercely contested, dumb match, isn't it. So
I'd love to see, you know, well, i'd love to
see wouldn't be sold out. I don't think we're going
to sell it out, but I think, you know, seventy,
anything above seventy, possibly great eighty thousand would be amazing
and what an atmosphere, what an occasion that would that
would be?
Speaker 2 (37:52):
It's time. Who are the cultures of great Britain and
Australia for the Super League Series.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I'm going to say great Britain was it? Probably? He
was a probably Hillary Hayley. Was he no?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Andy Goodway and Andy Goodway linking my Les Bettinson thing right.
He pulled out of the nineteen eighty eight tour because
of business interests and then he was the coach ten
years later, nine years later coach of Australia.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
I'm going to go your guests either Wang Bennett or
Tim Shines, John Lang, John Lang, Okay, yeah, that was
probably my next he was He was Cronola coach in
those days.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
The second Test was at Old Trafford in Manchester. The
attendance was forty three hundred and twenty four. I'm not
going to tell you the result right now because I've
got some audio of the BBC commentary that I'm going
to put into the podcast now for everyone's enjoyment. Listen away.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
On the fifth sackle Galla, Paul sneaking through gets the
passing side. Walters is over excellent play down on that turblind.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
Side and as a good hooker should be. Steve Walters
lurking with intent down the blind side.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
He picks up the first try of the afternoon. Lows.
Oh the god, he's over the side the skipper. He
shot a straight up completely by surpriser.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
They're on looking for the pass and wide and the
fadel head On took matters into his own hands. And
it's great Briton sacking the lease. Australia battling to take
the initiative again.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Galu daily lock here this is dangerous. God, look out,
that's it's a cord pass or her positioning hind of
a preada a forward pass in in Australia.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, Deafney forward then richardson the smith and grid positioning
twelve points.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
To six pers aveling Lokia.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Great's still in the attack, lawns to Carna.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
He got support, a head on the line. Stop, how
he gonna turned ski Lets get to do. We're gonna
tell he's entered the corner. Still Australians on the picture.
Steam poets to Joy still Australian part of personal. It's
a journey. Coward timing in the underneath the pulse. A
(40:55):
fatal slipped on my opening and a little bit of
a problem. Whenness he collects the two points, the horse
go all around.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
This, So hold truff Shadi and the flames away I
d Britain eight twelve in the lead, we'll take.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
About he's gone down the room. It's it's still going.
He's gives tis a tack, my skip a panty not shining.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
That's not a sinding that he is a professional farn Again,
Schmid knew exactly what he was doing.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
It's a fantastic table. I'm not priniser. And yes he's
not loving a pot. He's God knows up.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
He's just on a good part of the fields.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
He possibly clan the cremendous taking a great run. But
Schmid holds him down there. Johnny holds his legs down.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Here, y French, all right, John, you you were tickling.
(42:22):
You were tickled pink there by Ray French on the commentary.
Oh now then John Davidson down the flank and working
with intent. I grew up with him.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
I thought you grew up with Eddie wearing your poor
lad you.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
You probably gathered from the audio Great Britain twenty Australia twelve,
Andy Farrell Jason Robinson with the tries for Britain. Andy
Farrell had seven cracks of gold for one reason or
another and kicked six of them. That suggests to me
that they got some penalties and at one point that
Gordon Tallis punched the floor in frustration. He got sim
(43:07):
bind and you know he was the bad boy of
the day.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Not available for him.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
For Australia, Steve Walters Craig Gower scored their two tries
and Darren Locker kicked two from two to make their
score of twelve, so a big thing from that. Great
Britain dropped three players after the first Test, Mick Cassidy,
Anthony O'Sullivan and Dean Sampson. Martin Crompton was also sacked
(43:38):
from the squad after failing to report to training. So
very interesting alright. The third Test was on Sunday, the
sixteenth November nineteen ninety seven. That was at ellen Road.
Leads attendance thirty nine, three hundred and thirty seven, so
three attendances around about the forty thousand mark won't be
(43:58):
possible this time because of the third Test is at
Headingley nearly.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
A sellout then, and that was an interesting one because
I think that was the that was the other stadium
that was in the mix. Obviously owen Road much much
bigger than Headingley in the same city the tim of
Legion order, but yeah, they've they went with the safer
choice of Headingley.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
The score was thirty seven twenty to Australia. Simon Horton
scored two tries for Great Britain. Jason Robinson scored another,
Andy Farrell four goals Australia. Wendell Sailor to Ken Nagus
scored a try, Laurie Daily, Brad Thorne, Robbie Robbie Kerns,
Darren Smith, Ryan Girdler four goals and a field goal
(44:43):
by Darren Lockyer. Now, before we wrap up, did you
know that Australia have never lost at Ellen Road against
Great Britain or England.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
I did not know that.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Interesting Now, obviously in the podcast over the last few
weeks we've been going through team lists, so some of
the new names on the British side that we've not
necessarily mentioned Paul Aherson played Alan Hunt, played Simon Horton,
who were mentioned already. Steve McNamara, the recently slept Catalan's coach,
(45:24):
was on the bench. Mike Foreshaw was starting his international
career at that time for the Australian side. Darren Lucky
was in there. Kenny Nagas who we've mentioned, scoring a
try and not many people would associate it him with
representing Australia. Ryan Girdler played much of his Australian Test
(45:48):
stuff during this time. Craig Gower was in in the
half back Jersey front row, Brad Thorne, Jason Stevens, Brad
Clyde made it in the second role, so he was
still running around then. Darren Smith was a lock, Matt Adamson,
Brett Carmalley and an old Saint Greg's boy. Russell Richardson
(46:10):
was on the bench.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I remember after interesting from his days at South and
then he used to own a nightclub in Newcastle. You
almost had a trying to get a taxi outside his
nightclub one time. I almost had a few words with
him many years ago. Seems like a lovely seller.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
And then he went to Cronora I think, and he
carved up half the Super League side during the nineteen
ninety seven World Club Challenge. So yeah, a bit of
a flashback to nineteen ninety seven, John Where can people
get hold of you?
Speaker 1 (46:45):
They can get hold of me on ex Johnny D Davidson.
They can get me on my podcast by the balls,
but also get me on Patreon on a Rugby league
hub dot com longreads come and joined for rugular stories
from Super League, ENNERL and everywhere else.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
And I can be found at Rugby League Coach dot
com dot au. Admin at Rugby League Coach dot com
dot au is the email addressed at Rugby League Coach
on Socials xs RL coach on the Net. All the best, John,
Thank you very much thanks to the listeners. Take care
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