August 19, 2025 • 59 mins
Are Australians arrogant when it comes to playing England?
Hear from Australians Jamie Soward, Chad Townsend and Kris Radlinksi about their expectations of the series!
We also look back at the amazing 1990 series between Great Britain and Australia
Ashes Rugby League is a podcast dedicated to previewing the most anticipated international series in two decades!
Host Lee Addison is an Englishman who has coached at NRL clubs and lived in Australia a LONG time.
Sidekick John Davidson is an Australian journalist based in the UK for many a year!
You can find and reach out to Lee at rugbyleaguecoach.com.au and John on X at @johnnyddavidson
Get excited about the upcoming Ashes Rugby League series in this episode of Ashes Rugby League Podcast!
Hear from Australians Jamie Soward, Chad Townsend and Kris Radlinksi about their expectations of the series!
We also look back at the amazing 1990 series between Great Britain and Australia
Ashes Rugby League is a podcast dedicated to previewing the most anticipated international series in two decades!
Host Lee Addison is an Englishman who has coached at NRL clubs and lived in Australia a LONG time.
Sidekick John Davidson is an Australian journalist based in the UK for many a year!
You can find and reach out to Lee at rugbyleaguecoach.com.au and John on X at @johnnyddavidson
Get excited about the upcoming Ashes Rugby League series in this episode of Ashes Rugby League Podcast!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Ashes Rugby League Podcast, Episode ten.
My name is Lee david Addison.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
My name is John Davidson. Do you have a middle name, John,
I do, but okay, I'll throw it out there even
though you'll take Richard. My middle name is Dennis.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Dennis, John, Dennis Davidson. That's quite a mouthful. Actually, each
fortnite you can join myself and John Dennis Davidson for analysis, news,
interviews with guests, history, lessons and a bit more. Each
fortnighte to what your appetite ahead of a series that's
coming on to us quickly? John, Quite frankly, it's nine
(00:45):
weeks at this moment.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It's hitting up. It's coming thick and fast, and the
tours are getting booked and the road shows and everything else.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yes, that's right. For those who don't know, I'm an
Englishman if you can't tell by the voice, and I've
coached that. I have been in Australia a long time,
coached at a couple of NRL clubs and a few
other things. John, what do you do?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I am an Australian journalist living in the UK for
the past thirteen years, covering rugby league and other sports.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
You can get me at Rugby League Coach dot com
to tay you, email me admin at Rugby League Coach
dot com to tay you, or at Rugby League Coach
on socials. John Where can people get you?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
They can get me on x at Johnny d Davidson.
They can get me on at Patreon, at Rugby League
hub dot com, Longreads, or an email at journalist dot Davidson.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Do you mess around with the format a little bit
just to change it up for everybody you interviewed Chris Lensky.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I did. I went into Robin Park last Manday, well
week ago, isn't it ahead of their big game against
who k are? And I've got some time with Chris,
the head coach, Manny Pete and Harry Smith, one of
the England players who may feature. It's likely to feature
in the Ashes in a couple of months, so yeah,
it was quite worth while and.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Thank you you got some audio for us on the
Ashes for those who don't know, or too young to
remember or can't remember. Chris Radlinski a red haired fullback
that played for Great Britain and England in the nineties.
In the mid nineties nineteen ninety five, will Cup is
my first memory of him, and then he played for
Great Britain all the way up to those two thousand
(02:35):
and one and two thousand and three, the last ASHES
series basically, so for those who who remember Chris radlin Ski,
you will remember what a good fallback he was. Yet
another player though that didn't win an ASHES series. So
let's listen to that interview with John and Chris Radlinski
the Wigan CEO now and.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Then even talking about your your ASHES experiences all you know,
experiences playing Australia. Yeah, I mean, hey do you I
mean look looking back where you are now, you know
when you were playing what was that kind of that
specter to to play the Kangaroos and because you would
have grown out with Invincibles.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, yeah, you know it was back when the obviously
used to come and play club games in the midweek
and you know Central Park wigging for Australia, you know,
magical and then watching watching Great Britain Saturday afternoons all
Trafford and Wembley, and I think it is it's the
it's the dream, wasn't it? And I was lucky enough
(03:36):
to play an actually series. I think it was two
and three have to check that down.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
But we lost my six points and everything every Yes, yeah,
it was.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
It was a brilliant, brilliant series and I reckon that's
that's the closest we've been for fifty years or something,
But it was.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
I think it's certainly wetted the appetite.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
My only real concern at this moment is we just
need to get more people at Wembley, you know, just to.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Kick it off. If we can get.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Over sixty thousand there and then we move into two saloites.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I think we've got a real opportunity.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Obviously Whening is a a bit I think he was
made for this occasion. Really, this is the one thing
that probably the biggest thing he'll ever do in his life,
and he's got a wonderful opportunity.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
With that fifty odd years since.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, what do you?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Is it a psychological burden? Is it? Is it to
do with competition structure as a player? Depth? Is a
coaching what do you? Or is it just on the day,
you know, boun to the ball, referee.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Call well, listen, listen. There are things that go against
you and they've been better than us far. You know,
there are.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
They're a premier competition that I've has intense games every
single week. So but we've got ourselves to a position
now well we've got genuine world class play is players
who are making their name over there and players who
who over here could walk into teams over there.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
So you know we've got we've got an opportunity. Again.
You need you do need luck.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I think Herbie farm with you know, is potentially a pin.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
To keep things.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Yeah, and you know, I don't know if he's going
to make it, but.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I think I think he's I think he's only like
four to six weeks or.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Right, but you know he's he scares Australian defenses, so
he you know, he's he's essential to our success.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
You know.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Losing Matty Ashton I think is a real blow offers
because you know his pace would would scare them.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
So you listen, you need lock.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
And I think what one thing I always felt when
I was playing international football is the season is a
long season, you know, so when you get into the end,
it's you're physically you're not where you need to be
and also psychologically you've had to be during ten months
of torture. Really, so it's making sure where the players
(06:05):
are fresh mentally as opposed to physically as well, because.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
You know, you.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Get to a grand final or a semi final and
you've got a week off before you play four or
five weeks of the toughest rugby of your life. You
know it's mentally we need to be there. But I like,
you know, I like I like the noises.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
I'm hearing from wearing out.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
I like where his focus is and like I said,
he's got he's got a hell of a challenge's picking
that squad because there are a number number of players
putting their hands up.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I mean when you look at the player debates, you
guys been in Penriths and hell's been in Penrith. What's
happened with Beninga going and then they couldn't hire a
coach and then Bolt's coming in. I think the noises
that I heard from Stralia, But Sam Berger said it's
the best chance in yeah, a long time. Do you
feel that collectively? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:53):
I do, and I do, and I don't want it.
I don't want it to be like they're in a
bit of disarray. We've got a chance. I think we've
got a chance with you know our top twenty players. Yeah,
bloody good players you know who could who could force their.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Way into into when I was side, you know, on
their own. So of course there are a few things
that have gone our way, but I think in our
own right we should be going in confidence that we
had players who've played on the big occasions on one
and this isn't This is an opportunity, Like they don't
(07:29):
come up run very often, you know, so, and that's
the thing, you know, you don't want, you don't want regrets.
Playing in a NASHI series is an absolute dream. Playing
in a Nastiy series where you think you've got a
chance is you know, make the most of it.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Well that's the thing about an ASHES win for England
could be transformative. I mean you look at rugby Union
two days and three of the Lioness Ashes Cricket two
thousand and five, like it could change the Yeah could play,
Yeah it could, you know.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I think the Lioness is a great one.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I think you know, once people see the progression that
they making, it like takes over and.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
People want to be part of it.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
So you know, we've we've got to we've got to
be on a similar trajectory to that to engage engage
the nation really and we've got a chance.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
I genuinely believe we've got a chance.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I think it'll be interesting Membery particular if I can
get You're.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Back with myself and John on the Actual League podcast.
Do you think he's confident? John, I think I think
he is pretty confident.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah. I mean I think Chris is a pretty laid back, sensible,
logical guy in my in my experience, but he's also
close to obviously the England coach Sean Wayne who works
at Wigan, and a lot of the England players and
those Rugul league inside out. I mean, I think we've
got to mention before thirty caps, So twenty for Great
(08:54):
Britain and ten for England. I mean, that's that's some achievement.
So I think he's sort of shows the standing that
he had as a player, and obviously he's one of
the top administrators in the English game. Obviously it was
his idea to contact the NRL and organize for Wigan
and Warrington to go over and play in Las Vegas,
and obviously we're going to play Catlian's in Paris next year.
(09:17):
So yeah, he's a I would say an innovator.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
The theme of the week on the podcast All the
Fault Night, because we do this every fortnight, is about
Australian arrogance. John, Okay, so, as we all know, you're
very arrogant, you and the other twenty four nine, one
(09:42):
hundred and ninety nine thousand and now I'm going to
play your clip again. Now I think you've seen it.
On socials, I was on the Zero Tackle Blues Carry
podcast with trying to add the host, but also former
St George in New South Wales half back Jamie Soward
(10:03):
and Chad Townsend who's just retiring from rugby league at
the end of the season. Currently at the rooster has
been at the Cowboys and the Sharks, I think from
memory and anywhere else. Yeah, okay, So one of the
topics was paying hoss, defecting, switching jerseys, whichever whatever term
(10:27):
you want to use.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Can't I swear you can't say switching, can you?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
No? No, no, So if you're fired up when I said,
but what I want you to listen to, John, is
how blase these two guys are. Not to have a
crack at them, but let's pretend they're representative of Australian
Rugby League. Listen to their predictions if you like, for
(10:53):
English rugby League in the forthcoming series and.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
The Randy and a smallman, I just sort of strya
miso and tongue atam R Jesus puts pressure on England
at the end of the year and next year to
be able to come out and remain in that top
four because if you ever had full strength right now,
you have to put England on the outside of that
of that top four.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
So anyway, so I was upset because I know if
England do happen to win a Test or two Tests
this October, it will be all about how it happened.
Oh hello, it will all be about how Australia was
so weakened so again. And I mean because because one
of the problems with you is, because I can speak
(11:35):
with with quite a lot of experience of this, you
are quite arrogant when it comes to playing against the
English as a as a group, and you do take
it very easily. And I do understand why you are arrogant.
But as a brit myself and still got plenty of
as Britain English in May, I think there's nothing that
(11:57):
fires us up Mark. It's going to be a really
tough tour and every player that decides to not play
for Australia, I'll say that just so so it doesn't
bite my head off again. It's going to add more
fuel to the English fire. And the worst thing you
can ever do, Chad is right an englishman off.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
I'm looking forward to the Ashes series, but also the
try nations between the other three nations as well.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Do you want to come on a tour, Chad and
running a tour? Yeah, let's do it. The way that
made the amount of people that are switching jerseys, you
might get a game too.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
Or talk about England ever won the Ashes for fifty years.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
That's a story. All jokes aside, where Australia probably lack
a little bit of firepower when all these changes have happened,
particularly if Tino gold is in the front row. Have
a look at that when you when you've got five minutes, Sally,
have a look on.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
Five minutes and go Lindsey Smith, Lindsay Collins, Reuben Cotter a.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
I think we'll be okay, okay, wager with you. You're
picking half the squad from the n R l oh
England are picking off the squad from the n r
L two. So this is what I was talking about, Chad.
I love to see all my fellow English people. I'm
(13:30):
going to get this clip and I'm going to cut
it and just repeat it on my socials constantly.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
So uh, it's gonna be a whitewashed la three.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Let's have a wager, even with your even with your
bias referees, England will win a Test. England will win
a Test, and not only that, will win the cricket
one and all. Let's go all in. So, John, do
you agree with your I will m tipedem.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yes or no? I don't agree necessarily that it will
be three nil. I don't agree that England has no chance.
I do understand when when you've been winning or holding
the Ashes for fifty five years and Ingrad or Great
Britain has a won a World Cup since what nineteen
(14:25):
seventy two, and as you know, Ingrad or Great Britain
hasn't beaten Australia since two thousand and six, there would
be some arrogance, shall we say, But I guess it's
it's equivalent of is that arrogance?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
You know?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Is there some credence to it. Is it is it
a you know, is it born from a natural dominant
position or is it just the Australian way? Shall we?
I mean, I think that's open to debate and conjecture.
I'll do a very quick segway into rugby union. I
didn't see the game, but read the aftermath and saw
a quick clip of a Springbok fan who was very
(15:03):
happy at halftime. I think South Africa twenty two, Wallaby's
were five, and obviously we'll point out the South Africa
back to back Rugby World Cup champions. Wallaby's went on
to win that game score thirty eight points. Now, you know,
you could say the South Africans are very arrogant, but
they are the dominant force in rugby union, been for
(15:25):
nine years or whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
So Sawi's comment about England being the fifth best nation
or words to that effect, he said they're going to
have a fight to get into the top four of
the international realm. Your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, I don't necessarily agree with that. I think I
think any of those nations New Zealand, Samoa, tongare England,
and you throw Australia in that mix because obviously Tongla
have beaten Australia, what was it last year? The year before,
New Zealand beaten Australi regularly. They just don't stuck up.
(16:03):
I mean England whitewash the whitewash Tonga in the last
two years in the Autumn Tests, so you know, on
their day, I think England can beat anyone. The only
one that haven't been for a long time as we
know is Australia. But they haven't played Australia since twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So to be fair to Satui in the comment, he
did say at full strength. They were his word about
full strength. Don't let's revisit that when they were at
full strength. So let's say a neutral venue. I don't
know where the neutral venue would be because you know Singapore.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
As you know, mate, when is the team ever at
full strengths as a concept, I mean astral and Martin
won't play the Ashes, so we're Australia at full strengths.
Nold is injured exactly if Nathan Cleary does his shoulder
in the Grand Final or on the Semis and misses
the Ashes, or Australia at full strength. Maddy Ashton Mady
(16:58):
Ashton's down his acl I plan the Ashes. He would
have been an England squad of England at full strength.
I mean, now we've got to be We've got to
be a little bit serious about this. It's a strata.
Samoa and tonguare but as good as they could teams.
And they were very good and talented teams to England
in the last two years and I got dominated. And
that's credit to England and Sean Waynestein.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Can I give you something I'm not prepared you for.
I love a.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I love a what do you call it? I can't
speak Google, Yes, a curveball.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I can't speak your side. Now, if we're going to
talk about payinghouse in a moment, there's no pain hess.
Let's assume Tino that's Malae hamersel Tubo, I fid out
follow suit. I think I will right. Let's assume pick
(17:53):
an Australian seventeen.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Off the top of my head.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, we don't know else from.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
You, okay, Um James Tedesco, Yeah, agreed? Auhs a vy
Coat uh Latrell Mitchell, Tommy Turbo. Who's the other? What's
(18:23):
the name the paramatta? Nathan Cleary.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Monster in live in order to what you said though obviously, yes, yeah,
one's a six ones or seven?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Your smiles, Uh, Lindsay Colins, six comes before seven, don't
you check?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
You just check you.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Harry Grant?
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Who was your first prop? Sorry? Mate, sorry it was
too busy I put.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Down Lindsay Collins. But I mean I think I think
you can interchange, you know, of course, yea, Harry Grant. Yeah,
I think obviously we look at the two Origin teams.
You've got Pass, you've got Tino, you've got all. There's
a few other forwards in there. Trying to think who
(19:14):
was the other the Spencer will probably play for Spencer.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Meant that one before and I can't remember who he
said let me let me, let me keep it.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I'd throw in I'd throw in Staffano and then in
terms of the back row, i'd have Paddy Cagan at lock.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Oh probably, I think I think Carrigan was the prop.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think because.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
You would have been the lock, wouldn't it?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
So of course I forgot yes, when you when you
give me no notice, I can't you know my brain,
there would be the lock.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Anyone would think you're messaging me every thirty seconds saying
what's on the rundown? We there's a professional podcast Brighton.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, Crichton, Ruben Cotter. And then you're looking at a
bench of I actually quite like I like Watson. I
like what he brings off the bench, So I I
have Ken Watson in there.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I mean the other option is obviously Tommy Didon. So
you know, you wouldn't have both of them, but you could,
you could have one or the other. Stefano maybe thee
is he not going to play for there's a I
think there's a there's a number of players there, you
(20:42):
know who could feel who could feel you know, Hudson Young,
some other ones I'm missing.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
But there's another prop that escaped me and you Okay, anyway,
we've got the people probably listening to this guy. It's
all right, Turbo likely to be fit no next week
(21:13):
or rather than best. Maybe Latrell has been in and
out with injuries. One still or clearly get injured. Ethan Strange.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Well, I mean there's the thing with reptans, particularly earlier year.
There's always a couple of bolts, isn't there. And you
have to look at how well Camber have been going
and whether you're throwing you know one or two of
those those players, and then it's the same with the Bulldogs.
You know a carras you know he's been the cost
(21:49):
of origin selections.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
So that side you've named does that beat England?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I think it does in a three test series?
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, okay, pain, harsh, massive loss. I think yes, best
proper I've seen for a long time. The question that
it begs for me is what is bigger in twenty
twenty five? Is it the Ashes or playing for Samoa
(22:20):
Tonga Cook Island?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
What's bigger are you talking about for those players or are
you talking about you know, neutrally as in.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
What column a columbe So the stance, the stance I took.
And I know Pain. I don't know him inside out,
but me in Pain see each other, we say hello,
ask how each other to do it right. So I'm
very happy for him that he's made that choice. But
for Lee Addison, I wanted him to play for Australia
(22:53):
and I wanted to I want t Know to play
for Australia. I want hammer So Taboa Fidele to play
for Australia because I don't want to hear the whole
We've had too many players leave us if England do
win a test or two. So from a purely selfish
point of view, I wanted to see that happen. I
also wanted to see where England really were in the
(23:16):
pantheon because on my social media in particular, I often
say how much better the NRL is, and then I
get accused from English people by English people for this,
that and the other.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
So it's a fact that the NRL is a better
competition people, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
But I guess the question is how much? Right?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
And yeah, that's that's.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And I think the ultimate test in my life has
been the ashes okay of the two competitions. And he also,
excuse me, I'm coughing a bit because it's so late
at my night, John, it's my nighttime cough. You know
from the little ailments I had you that you've got,
(24:08):
you have to smoke, don't you together the how guilty
would you feel now if it just attacked me and
I died.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
A little bit?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah? Yeah, but you know back in the day, right
two thousand and three, two thousand and one, ninety seven,
ninety four, nineteen ninety which we're going to talk about
the end of this podcast today. It was a great
way of looking at the difference in standards on both
sides of the world. Obviously nineteen eighty two showed that starkly.
(24:43):
I think if you look at the history of British
performances against Australia in these three match series, the rot
actually started to set in before it set in, in
the sense that they were just scraping home series wins
in the seventies at times. So the woman and then
(25:05):
it dipped.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, I was going to say it wasn't. Wasn't part
of that with the and you know, correct me, you're
probably more of a story than me. There was a band,
wasn't it of foreign players coming into the UK from
Australia in was it the early seventies? And I think,
as you said, probably the rot started to set in
mid to late seventies. The gap was really evident too.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, you're you're right. And then there was a series
I think it was seventy nine because it was just
out of cycle for whatever reason, Britain picked a test
team for the second Test at oddsll Can you imagine
the Test match at Ostal Now.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
They'll be super the next year.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, and they called they called that's a different podcast
for me to do that one. They called the team
Dad's Army because it was old fat men basically, and
I use the term fat because what popped up in
eighty two was overweight British players in some places against
(26:10):
very fit humans from Australia. Or were they humans? That's
that's the next question. But so it's always been that
show of the of the talent on both sides of
the world, and quite frankly Australia with Painhass, Tino Hammer
(26:35):
and actually everyone who qualifies for Australia too. So Stephen Crichton,
I could go on and Brian talk, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Right, I mean probably Fisher Harris.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
So, I mean, what would happen John, And I think
it would be quite significant. I think it would be
fifty points kind of thing, don't I.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Don't know if it'd be fifty I think it would be. Yeah,
I think it would be more one side. But just
to jump back a bit, you were saying about you
don't want people saying this and that or we'll miss
these players. But I'll jump to another sport analogy again.
Cricket two thousand and five if Glen McGrath doesn't roll
his ankle over. I think it was a sharer and
a non student. But after Australia had literally pulled England's
(27:23):
pants down at Lord's in the first Test, you probably
don't go on and win that series, which was a
watershed moment for cricket globally, let alone in England.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
So do you remissed out something very important there?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
What was that?
Speaker 1 (27:37):
The toss that day at Edgebuster, Yeah, where Ricky Porton
still regrets it to this day, I.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Think, and the substitute fielder and also the.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
The moment sliding doors.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Colapsed in the train, which meant I missed most of
that day's test and only saw the last five minutes
the last over get out and he wasn't out. But
we didn't have the RS then, so.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I got into Old Trafford on the fifth day. Well,
I had a little brother who's now father of a
child you've still got yeah, and made him pushing what
you're doing. And the next thing, yeah, we were in
the queue and we were too big. Nor did would
to argue, Yeah, you're right, and.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
I control that discussion.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
But this is an avalanche of players not playing John
this is like this is like virtually the whole team
collapsing on a steed and or a sharing and then
replacing them with another team, isn't it. So I think
that is a.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Good thing for the sport. That's a great thing for sport.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
But what if England loser to this?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Now, if England lose, then I guess it shows, you know,
there'd be some hard truth that a lot of people
in the UK have ignored for you still don't want
to admit. Now, maybe they'll have I don't think they
will because there's fifty odd years of evidence, but maybe
they'll lead to some positive change. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
So about three hours ago I asked the question what's
bigger in twenty twenty five? Some ore and tonguer versus whoever?
Or the Ashes? And I don't you know, we went
off on tangents, So I'll bring us back to that question. So, yeah,
in your in your eyes, so smaller versus tongue at
(29:34):
some court, he's going to be sold out. I think
it already has sold out. Yeah, the Ashes take place
on the other side of the world. Yeah, you can
only watch one of those games? Which one will you
be watching?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
I've watched The Ashes.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
What do you think most people will be watching.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I think it depends. It depends who they are when
I live and what they're into. I think, look, the
Ashes has got over one hundred years or history. You
said some comp will be sold out, will Everton will
be sold out. It's about the same size Wembley. I
think we're sitting in around forty five thousand. I think
I'd like to hope it will get to sixty or seventy.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I think Samoa and Tonga is a growing rivalry and
it gets people excited. I don't think it has the
history or the widespread support, and that's partly because tom
Are and Tonga just in pure population sizes in terms
of the world, are very small nations. You know, they're
(30:41):
not well there are not rich countries and be they're
not massive countries. What's the population in the UK sixty
seventy million. In the population of Australias what twenty five?
So yeah, I think as a contest Tomorrow and Tonga
maybe in ten years, maybe in five years, I don't know.
But they don't play each other enough, do they.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
I think Samoa or Tongue will winning the next World
Cup tip, we'll tip that across.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yes, I think I think that was the you know,
and I covered the twenty twenty two World Cup closer.
It was one of the big things was the rise
of Samorrow making a final and obviously if they weren't
that next step in won a final, that would be
that would be huge. It would be you know, it's
a good news story that would go across sport, wouldn't it.
(31:29):
You know, like Japan beating South Africa in the rugby
Union fifteen, you know that other I'm trying to think
of a cricket one, but there's been there's been big
upsets in cricket, you know, likes of Ireland and Netherlands
and Bangle and the like.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I the interesting thing though, when you said what's bigger
to those players? When I spoke to Harry Smith a
week ago and I was talking about the Ashes and
I was saying about the history, and I was like, oh,
but wait a minute, you you didn't see the last
things like no, because it was three years old.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
This is the Wigan half.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yes, the Wigan half who's the well will most likely
be the starting seven for England, but the younger for
the players today for paying half for Tino. They didn't
grow up with the Ashes, so you can't expect them
necessarily to have the same emotional as they do the
state of origin as they do toriage. They still hate
(32:23):
Australia though, who Harry Smith English footballers will believe. I
think English people generally hate Australia just.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Like especially if they're a journalist.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, I love bringing it down our colonial throats.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
That's right, That's right. Any news from England in terms
of injuries or anything.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
I think one one has been interesting has been the
form of Junior December, the big rangey second rower from Wigan.
His form has been down and he's copped a lot
of criticism and he was expected to be a first
game on the team shoot one of the first names.
You know. He's probably the the next big face of
(33:10):
English rugby league in the kind of ellery Hanley mold
not to put to expectations, so his forms to being down,
So that's been interesting. I think the other one is
it's big Herbie. But he's only out for about four weeks,
isn't he.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
We think so Yeah. I spoke to his uncle last
week and he thinks he'll be fine. For the Ashes.
So can I put you on the spot? John?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yeah, just last night I was going to say if
Herbie Farnworth is unavailable for England, that would be disaster.
I think he is one of the painful of English
players and you put Michael Lewis in that. But who
would really scare the Ausies Gold to put you on
the spot, John, you can England seventeen please.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
As we sit here today.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
I think the England sevent is probably easier to pick.
Jack Wells b.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
He is he going to be fit?
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Yes, he's The latest update is he will be fit
before the end of the season. Oh, wingers, wingers, wingers
wingers Tom Johnston from Wigan, sorry, from Wakefield?
Speaker 1 (34:17):
And is he he'd be a debutant one.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
No, he's played I think at least two tests.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
The other winger? Oh, Tom Young? Obviously Tom Young. He'll
be a certainty in the Senner's Jake Wardle and he'll
be farm Worth.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Where's Wardle?
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Where is he? Who's he played for?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah? Not like where is he right now?
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Well, he's probably in Wigan and he does play for Wigan.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Okay, just shows how much Super League I've seen lately.
I'm just not in touch with it.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Oh you remember he was the player who scored the
famous trying the World Cup Challenge against Februar where it
was kind of spun around and people dummy out in
the halves. I think it will be George Williams at
six and Harry Smith at seven, So no Mikey Lewis.
(35:13):
I think he'll be on the bench again. In the forwards,
you're looking at the front row of Maddie Lees.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
And mm hmm, where's Matt Lee's club St Heaven's.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
I'm trying to think of who would the other might be? Yeah,
it might be Ethan Havard, He's a Wigan. I think
the last Burgess boy has not had a great season
at Hardsfield, but Shaun Wynn does like he's loyal when
it comes to selections.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Is that one.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
One of the twins, the one who starting I look
the bloody Actually pretty sure it's Tom Pretty sure.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
I think I coached him.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I think I think hooker will be Darryl Clark. But
there's a bit of competition there with Jesse Litten and
Danny Walker as well.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
We discussed that in detail last time, remember yeah, and
then are you picking well?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I think he. I think he's likely to be in
the seventeen. But the way the form is that this
is a good thing for England. They've got some some
really good forwards and I've got some depth there. So
you got back row, you've got potential, you've got Maddie Nicholson,
you've got Morgan Smithy's, you've got an Incember, you've got
John Bateman, you've got Morgan Knowles, you've got Victor Radley.
(36:50):
So that's thirteen.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah, that's probably a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, you've got you've got Elliott Minchella, whole k Are captain, the.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Whole Vidler just can't get knocked out again. I think
you probably can't get on the exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah. Yeah, there's there's a lot of good a lot
of good forwards there.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Talking of good forwards, the nineteen ninety Kangaroo Tool, how
old were you then, John, I was nine years old.
Do you remember the nineteen ninety ashes too?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Not really?
Speaker 1 (37:27):
No, I want to name the touring squad to you
to start. You just tell me if you know all
of them. Okay, we'll do it like that. Greg Alexander, Yes,
the Great Brandy, the Brandy. Everybody's seeing him on Fox
Sport over here, Gary Belcher.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Great Camber and Queensland Marines.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Perhaps I'm also Fox for a while. Marty beller.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Man as a cat snake Fromer merely for front row
mustache Bold.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah you'll know this one well, apparently love and he
was up south when he came on this tour.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, but he saw the light and came to mainly
the money.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
One of the other John Cartwright, Cardie of course, Laurie
Daily was yep, ENnie Elias back door Benny Ye Andrew
ettings Housen at.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
The best looking man in rugby league for a while. Yeah,
Cana legend Brad Fittler Freddie Frittler came from Penrith and
then the Roosters.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yep, Mark Geyer mg the mad Ben from David Gillespie.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Cement Gillespie another mainly legend.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
For Michael Hancock.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Absolutely mad.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
I should get him on the podcast. Actually remind me
of one.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I think you remember. You must remember his playing the balls.
He used to hunt the ground to try and win penalties.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Also Sulford player mate. So I'm just I'm just righting
myself and a reminder I'm going to get him on
the podcast because I know him well.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Dead sulfured Red Devils who played for Well, as did
John Cartright.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
That's right, Desmond Hasler.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Well what can we say that? There's the former Catholic
school teacher, just legend, an enigma, Chris John's. Yes, he
was the Bronco. He used to play for New Soles.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
And no relation. Alan Langer. Have you heard of him?
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I have heard of him, the Warrington Great.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yep, I have Glenn Lazarus, the brick with Eyes Linda
I don't.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Remember, but Bobby Linda, Well, but I know he was
a very good role playing Queensland who had a spell
it not whole Car. I'm thinking of Gavin and Miller.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Whole Car, Castleford and then Oldham in ninety three and
ninety four. I think I watched him play for Oldham.
I remember that Cliff Lions.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Probably one of my favorite players of all time in history,
Rugby Mackay, very very good back row forward for the Steelers.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
What what's making me laugh is how many of these
players sons I've coached as well.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Malmoninger I shook his hand once and it almost broke
every finger in my.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Mark mcgare.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Sparks, I'll give you a fact because you probably don't
know this league. Sparkles McGough, apart from having a great
career for Crnalla and he was in Australia, was a
referee on the original Gladiators in Aussie in the in the.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
I'm glad I know all that now. Steve Blocker Roach.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yes, the block yep O man great. I think his
highlight of his career was padding. I can't remember the
refer padding.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
The after he got I didn't. I don't remember this
fellow in the Australian Jersey, Mark Sergeant Well.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
I mean as I'm from Newcastle and grew up watching
a lot of it. Was a Newcastle legend, big, big
front row forward. Just before Well he did play with
Paul Harrigan, but just in the generation a few years
ahead of him.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Dale Shearer, Rowdy the Great Dale Hearer from playing for
Brisbane and Queensland. Lot of Dale Sharer and Alan Langer
got in common and it's a link to me.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Ones from Ipswich, the ones from McKay.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
They both went to Ipswich State High School which I
coached and turned into a force. Yeah there you go,
and they were there when it wasn't a force, So
I did it without they'll share of all Fielanger, Paul
(42:22):
Sarah then zero.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Yeah, great, great player for the man he was and
he's two boys are now Saint Helens and Katloins respectively.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Ricky Stewart.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Sticky freak camera half back forming.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Carrod and Kevin Walters Kevin and Kerrod yep. Yeah, isn't
that some tour inside?
Speaker 2 (42:48):
I mean that it's funny when you when you go
back through teams like that, and I think we did
this in what the two thousand and one and two
thousand and three and then the ninety ninety four Society
with a Great Brita. They're just literally really stacked with
absolutely stacked with legendary players. Yeah, there's no weak links
in those teams.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Nineteen New South Welshman nine Queen Lambers do you reckon
they'd get away with that now, record aggregate crowd of
one hundred and thirty three, six hundred and eighty four
attending the Test series. Do some quick maths. We're not
going to get near that this time, are we.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Or are we're going to We're going to beat that.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Fifty five at Everton? Yeah, nineteen Headingly Yeah and we'll get,
we'll get We'll get seventy. Okay, I don't think that
was a record, by the way, I'm just saying.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
And if we don't, I'll just the RFL will just
add on a couple of tes and to make sure
we do.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
That beat the previous record set during the nineteen forty
eight four nine Kangaroo Tour. Wow and sixty six thousand
more than attended the nineteen eighty eight series in Australia.
So putting it into context, Great Britain had won the
last Test in nineteen eighty eight, so Mal really was
the coach of Britain and he was getting them sorted again.
(44:19):
They went to Saint Helens and flogged them in the
first game, went to Wakefield Trinity and beat them heavily
thirty six sixteen, went to Wigan, which was unofficially seen
as the Fourth Test, and beat them heavily thirty four
to six. Here's a question for you, would you know
some of these players in the Wigan side?
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Well, I wanted you to give me the Great Britain
side to see how many I could wait till you
get there.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
They've not played yet. I'm scrolling down in chronological order,
Steve Hampson having a row or hero, Yes, mainly man
the X Men play all right, Joe Iden, the famous
Jo Yes. David Marshall, No, Sean David Marshall and we've
(45:13):
got a Wikipedia entry is one of them that's read.
Sean Edwards.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Andy Gregory also heard him. Ian Lucas No, good player,
Martin Durmott, Yes, great player. Kelvin Skerrett.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
He was good at taking people's heads off. I believe.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Dennis pets.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
That's what you're missing the book. That's the I can't speak,
that's the Yeah. I've had the joy of interviewing Dennis
quite a few times, and not only was he a
great player, but he's quite a funny.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
He's a great interview, gives you and a good way.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
I have heard the name Elwy Hamley.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
He could pay a bit.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Bobbie Goulding.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Seems a bit loose these days, but he could also play.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
I just have one problem with what he said there
these days. I think Bobby has always been.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
I was trying to be kindly, okay.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Ian Gildart, I.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Think I would know investors all of Oliver Gildard's dad.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
But yeah, Mark Preston, No Mike Foreshow.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Mike Foreshaw, who I believe wasn't until recently the defense
coach for Wales rugby union national team.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
And also David Waite in two thousand and one two
said he was technically the best player in England. The
coach of Wigan was John Money and Australian there. Then
went to Cumbria and for ten and most of their
players are in red by the way and Wikipedia. Cumbria
Leeds quite close game actually twenty two to ten. I
(47:14):
was looking at some of the names. Anyway, now we're
on the Ashes series. Okay, So first test was at
Wembley and it was a crowd of fifty four five
hundred and sixty nine. Both sides named the side that
was previously expected of them, but Laurie Daly suffered a
(47:39):
broken hand against Leeds, so Ricky Stewart played at five eight.
Great Britain won this game nineteen twelve. Two tries from Paulicewood,
one from Martin Offia, three goals from Paul Eicewood and
a field goal by Gary Schofield and Ingram Martin mcgore
(48:01):
scored the tries for Australia. And malmon Inger only scored
two out of four goals with his toe punting. The
referee was Alan Alaine Saba Rolls from France.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
That's that really rolled off the tongue.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Yes, sorry for all this coffin guys, and Gary Scorefield
got man in the match, so yeah, I'll go through
the Britain side now. Steve Hampson mentioned Paul Eastwood. Was
that name? Ringer Bell? Were you old enough to remember
the nineteen ninety two tour of Britain to Australia when
(48:38):
Britain when Britain beat Australia at Melbourne?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Yes, vaguely yeah, and I have I have watched clips
of that game.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Particularly was the kicker who spent over each.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Kick himself, the legend. Gary Schofield instructed to watch.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
The Daryl Powell was in the center as the couldrn't
Wakefield coach Carl Gibson. Have you heard that name? Heard
it but never saw himply off here at five Schofield six,
Andy Gregory seven. Carl Harrison was a prop.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
I know Carl Harrison well interviewed him a few times.
He was a coach of Salford. His son now plays
for Warrington and I had a beer with him in Vegas.
He's a good name.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Lee Jackson was the hooker.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
The former Newcastle Knights hooker who helped him steal the
Grand Faal win from Mainly seven.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Paul Dixon No, No, Brafford, bulls Well, Bradford, Northan. I
should say Denny Spets was in the second role. Roy Powell,
who's no longer with us unfortunately, Ellery Hanley A locke
Well loose forward as the English call. The substitutes were
Carl Fairbanks. Do you know that name?
Speaker 2 (49:59):
The name does about that?
Speaker 1 (50:00):
I know you'll know this next name, Kevin Ward.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
The Great Kevin Ward, Clive Churchill Clive Churchill Medal winner
nineteen ninety sorry, nineteen eighty seven for mainly.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
After getting off the bus from England.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
The plane I think before the day, I mean, yeah,
a freak.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Australia then went to Warrington and won twenty six six.
So what's interesting about that first test is Australia are
flogging everyone in Clubland basically, but lost the first Test.
Castleford were beaten twenty eight eight on the fourth November.
I don't know why I gave the day then, but
(50:43):
what Halifax were given were beaten thirty six eighteen and
the Second Test is probably the greatest Test match ever?
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Can I just interrupted for a second early? I think
what's interesting too is that I think obviously Halifax for
a different club now to what they were then, but
the closes relative closest with the scores, and I think
that's the way the game was played there. Like we
have a lot more blowouts now because of six again
and because of different things, the rest on whatever. But
you know, if if the Kangaroo's played Bradford at the
(51:16):
end of this year, you'd be looking at yeah, yeah,
if they played Halifa, actually be looking at it at
one hundred. But yeah, what.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
About if you play the super excite.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
That's I mean, it depends on the super excited Salford. Yeah,
it'll be a different it'll be a different story if
you put Warrington or Leeds.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
The Second Test. Surely you know about this game, probably
the best Test match ever, arguably the best game ever
Old Trafford mm hmm, it was brilliant. I encourage anybody
who hasn't seen it watch the full thing. It was
Saturday the tenth of November Great Britain ten Australia fourteen.
(52:07):
Paul Dixon, Paul Laughlan scored tries for Britain, Paul lice
would kicked one out of three goals, Dale Shearer, Cliff
Liones and maum Inger scored tries and Maninger kicked one
goal and couldn't kick Maninger, but Ricky Stewart made that
break gave the ball to Malmaninger to finish the British
(52:30):
off in in the very dying minutes of the game.
And basically Britain was super close back then to winning
the Ashes. Of that I think they could have got
a draw. I think they would level at the time
or could have got level or something like that. But
(52:51):
put it this way, we were that close to it,
only being thirty five years since the jug were won.
Because it was super close, John, super close, and I
implore everybody to watch watch it on YouTube because fantastic game.
The commentators, the Australian commentators are going absolutely nuts. Have
(53:14):
you Are you familiar with that game?
Speaker 2 (53:17):
Yeah, I mean I'm more familiar with the final two
minutes in the match winning player, but yeah, I'm also
familiar with As I mentioned before, Scoey telling me he's
still every time he sees Lee Jackson because I believe
it was Lee Jackson's who fell for Ricky Stewart's dummy
out of the mazy run, and the claim was that,
(53:40):
you know, if anyone wasn't going to fall for a dummy,
it was Lee Jackson and dam and they still give
it to him now, apparently thirty five years later. But yeah,
just a just a remarkable I mean to have been
at that game, a kind of crescendo of emotion and
the change, you know. Yeah, just just a remarkable contest
(54:02):
and as you mentioned, with those two sides, just absolutely
stacked with world class players on both teams.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
I regret that I wasn't out that game. I was
there at the eighty six test, but didn't go to
that test because I was just obsessed with Manchester City
and I think City were playing that weekend, so oh
well we did four years before. Yeah, spit on the
ground every time we go there. But the yeah, the
(54:34):
everything about it, it was just fantastic. It was great football,
full crowd, British fans at their best too. I know
I've said this already, but I really do suggest to
anybody listening watch that game on YouTube and if you
tell me that the Ashes doesn't mean something after watching
(54:57):
that Martin off. He was interviewed in twenty twenty five
apparently by Fox League and said he thinks that with
his pace he could have stopped the try from being
scored because he was actually in the treatment room at
the time. He was off the field.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
I mean, I think the thing with Martin is you
can't with his confidence.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
No, no, so boyd by that. Australia then went to
Hull and won thirty four to four. Windness were vanquished
fifteen to eight. I'm laughing at these Whole and Witness
(55:38):
because with the no clear interview he did, he was
talking about going to these venues and no Clill did
play at Witness so with his brother and then the
third Oh, Witness were world champions at the time.
Speaker 2 (55:53):
By the way, Well, I've just I've just clicked on
the Wikipedia pages talking and there's some pretty handy Kurt
Sorenson obviously, Jonathan Davies, John Devru, Andy Courrier, Harvey.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
Howard who would play prop for England and we're going
in the Brisbane Broncos while was he in.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
The left wing.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
He came back one off season and also when he left.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
Coached by the late Doggie Lawton, who obviously was a
pretty handy player. I think he probably won and that's
a series or two in his playing days.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
A senior fire my love, great player. We used to
call him fly molder. They still sell those in England
flying mold lawnmowers. Third Test, Australia won fourteen from memory
and rare having watched it again because I get excited.
(56:51):
I think Britain were a bit deflated, if I'm honest
after that Test, just a little bit. Ricky Stewart got
Man of the Matches that game in front of thirty
two thousand, five hundred people. They then went on to
France played the President's thirteen forty six eighteen France B
(57:11):
seventy eight six Leon.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Can you imagine France B against against Greg Alexander and
Brad Fittler.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
And Australia sixty France four in the first Test on
Sunday the second of December nineteen ninety. The second Test
came after a game against Lang Longua Deck Russlon who
I've played against for Eccles, and Australia beat them ninety
(57:49):
sorry thirty eight nine. And the second Test was the
ninth of December. France were beaten thirty four to ten.
I don't know if I've asked you this on this podcast.
When was the last time France beat Australia. If I
asked you that.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
I think your motto. I think off the top of
my head it was the seventies, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (58:14):
It was the day before I was born, which was
so literally Australia have never been beaten by France in
my lifetime.
Speaker 2 (58:26):
Well, I don't think Brents have beaten England or Great
Britain since the early nineties either.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
Yeah, I think you might be right. I think you
might be right. Good to see you, John. I'm sure
everybody is more excited about the Ashes.
Speaker 2 (58:42):
Now after that, after all the arrogance.
Speaker 1 (58:45):
I'm sorry about the coffee just for you as well,
because blame John, because I was starting to feel okay.
I've had a little bit of the man Man flew
as you know, but starting to feel better. But because
you've made me record later at night, I'm getting my
nighttime coughs or blame you, John.
Speaker 2 (59:02):
Gets some big on the chest, He'll be all right.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
You can get me at Rugby League Coach dot com
to tey you and Rugby League Coach on social just
remind people where they can get you.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
John you get me on Exit. Johnny D. Davidson, you
can get me on Patreon, at Rugby league hub dot com,
long reads, and often in the ipaper.
Speaker 1 (59:22):
And we'll have some more interviews hopefully in the next
couple of weeks, including the person that's coming on the
Kangaroo tour with me that I'm going to announce pretty soon.
Take care,
Hello and welcome to the Ashes Rugby League Podcast, Episode ten.
My name is Lee david Addison.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
My name is John Davidson. Do you have a middle name, John,
I do, but okay, I'll throw it out there even
though you'll take Richard. My middle name is Dennis.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Dennis, John, Dennis Davidson. That's quite a mouthful. Actually, each
fortnite you can join myself and John Dennis Davidson for analysis, news,
interviews with guests, history, lessons and a bit more. Each
fortnighte to what your appetite ahead of a series that's
coming on to us quickly? John, Quite frankly, it's nine
(00:45):
weeks at this moment.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It's hitting up. It's coming thick and fast, and the
tours are getting booked and the road shows and everything else.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yes, that's right. For those who don't know, I'm an
Englishman if you can't tell by the voice, and I've
coached that. I have been in Australia a long time,
coached at a couple of NRL clubs and a few
other things. John, what do you do?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I am an Australian journalist living in the UK for
the past thirteen years, covering rugby league and other sports.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
You can get me at Rugby League Coach dot com
to tay you, email me admin at Rugby League Coach
dot com to tay you, or at Rugby League Coach
on socials. John Where can people get you?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
They can get me on x at Johnny d Davidson.
They can get me on at Patreon, at Rugby League
hub dot com, Longreads, or an email at journalist dot Davidson.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Do you mess around with the format a little bit
just to change it up for everybody you interviewed Chris Lensky.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I did. I went into Robin Park last Manday, well
week ago, isn't it ahead of their big game against
who k are? And I've got some time with Chris,
the head coach, Manny Pete and Harry Smith, one of
the England players who may feature. It's likely to feature
in the Ashes in a couple of months, so yeah,
it was quite worth while and.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Thank you you got some audio for us on the
Ashes for those who don't know, or too young to
remember or can't remember. Chris Radlinski a red haired fullback
that played for Great Britain and England in the nineties.
In the mid nineties nineteen ninety five, will Cup is
my first memory of him, and then he played for
Great Britain all the way up to those two thousand
(02:35):
and one and two thousand and three, the last ASHES
series basically, so for those who who remember Chris radlin Ski,
you will remember what a good fallback he was. Yet
another player though that didn't win an ASHES series. So
let's listen to that interview with John and Chris Radlinski
the Wigan CEO now and.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Then even talking about your your ASHES experiences all you know,
experiences playing Australia. Yeah, I mean, hey do you I
mean look looking back where you are now, you know
when you were playing what was that kind of that
specter to to play the Kangaroos and because you would
have grown out with Invincibles.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, yeah, you know it was back when the obviously
used to come and play club games in the midweek
and you know Central Park wigging for Australia, you know,
magical and then watching watching Great Britain Saturday afternoons all
Trafford and Wembley, and I think it is it's the
it's the dream, wasn't it? And I was lucky enough
(03:36):
to play an actually series. I think it was two
and three have to check that down.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
But we lost my six points and everything every Yes, yeah,
it was.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
It was a brilliant, brilliant series and I reckon that's
that's the closest we've been for fifty years or something,
But it was.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
I think it's certainly wetted the appetite.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
My only real concern at this moment is we just
need to get more people at Wembley, you know, just to.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Kick it off. If we can get.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Over sixty thousand there and then we move into two saloites.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I think we've got a real opportunity.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Obviously Whening is a a bit I think he was
made for this occasion. Really, this is the one thing
that probably the biggest thing he'll ever do in his life,
and he's got a wonderful opportunity.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
With that fifty odd years since.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, what do you?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Is it a psychological burden? Is it? Is it to
do with competition structure as a player? Depth? Is a
coaching what do you? Or is it just on the day,
you know, boun to the ball, referee.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Call well, listen, listen. There are things that go against
you and they've been better than us far. You know,
there are.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
They're a premier competition that I've has intense games every
single week. So but we've got ourselves to a position
now well we've got genuine world class play is players
who are making their name over there and players who
who over here could walk into teams over there.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
So you know we've got we've got an opportunity. Again.
You need you do need luck.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I think Herbie farm with you know, is potentially a pin.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
To keep things.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Yeah, and you know, I don't know if he's going
to make it, but.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I think I think he's I think he's only like
four to six weeks or.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Right, but you know he's he scares Australian defenses, so
he you know, he's he's essential to our success.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
You know.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Losing Matty Ashton I think is a real blow offers
because you know his pace would would scare them.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
So you listen, you need lock.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
And I think what one thing I always felt when
I was playing international football is the season is a
long season, you know, so when you get into the end,
it's you're physically you're not where you need to be
and also psychologically you've had to be during ten months
of torture. Really, so it's making sure where the players
(06:05):
are fresh mentally as opposed to physically as well, because.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
You know, you.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Get to a grand final or a semi final and
you've got a week off before you play four or
five weeks of the toughest rugby of your life. You
know it's mentally we need to be there. But I like,
you know, I like I like the noises.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
I'm hearing from wearing out.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
I like where his focus is and like I said,
he's got he's got a hell of a challenge's picking
that squad because there are a number number of players
putting their hands up.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I mean when you look at the player debates, you
guys been in Penriths and hell's been in Penrith. What's
happened with Beninga going and then they couldn't hire a
coach and then Bolt's coming in. I think the noises
that I heard from Stralia, But Sam Berger said it's
the best chance in yeah, a long time. Do you
feel that collectively? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:53):
I do, and I do, and I don't want it.
I don't want it to be like they're in a
bit of disarray. We've got a chance. I think we've
got a chance with you know our top twenty players. Yeah,
bloody good players you know who could who could force their.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Way into into when I was side, you know, on
their own. So of course there are a few things
that have gone our way, but I think in our
own right we should be going in confidence that we
had players who've played on the big occasions on one
and this isn't This is an opportunity, Like they don't
(07:29):
come up run very often, you know, so, and that's
the thing, you know, you don't want, you don't want regrets.
Playing in a NASHI series is an absolute dream. Playing
in a Nastiy series where you think you've got a
chance is you know, make the most of it.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Well that's the thing about an ASHES win for England
could be transformative. I mean you look at rugby Union
two days and three of the Lioness Ashes Cricket two
thousand and five, like it could change the Yeah could play,
Yeah it could, you know.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I think the Lioness is a great one.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I think you know, once people see the progression that
they making, it like takes over and.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
People want to be part of it.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
So you know, we've we've got to we've got to
be on a similar trajectory to that to engage engage
the nation really and we've got a chance.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
I genuinely believe we've got a chance.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I think it'll be interesting Membery particular if I can
get You're.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Back with myself and John on the Actual League podcast.
Do you think he's confident? John, I think I think
he is pretty confident.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah. I mean I think Chris is a pretty laid back, sensible,
logical guy in my in my experience, but he's also
close to obviously the England coach Sean Wayne who works
at Wigan, and a lot of the England players and
those Rugul league inside out. I mean, I think we've
got to mention before thirty caps, So twenty for Great
(08:54):
Britain and ten for England. I mean, that's that's some achievement.
So I think he's sort of shows the standing that
he had as a player, and obviously he's one of
the top administrators in the English game. Obviously it was
his idea to contact the NRL and organize for Wigan
and Warrington to go over and play in Las Vegas,
and obviously we're going to play Catlian's in Paris next year.
(09:17):
So yeah, he's a I would say an innovator.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
The theme of the week on the podcast All the
Fault Night, because we do this every fortnight, is about
Australian arrogance. John, Okay, so, as we all know, you're
very arrogant, you and the other twenty four nine, one
(09:42):
hundred and ninety nine thousand and now I'm going to
play your clip again. Now I think you've seen it.
On socials, I was on the Zero Tackle Blues Carry
podcast with trying to add the host, but also former
St George in New South Wales half back Jamie Soward
(10:03):
and Chad Townsend who's just retiring from rugby league at
the end of the season. Currently at the rooster has
been at the Cowboys and the Sharks, I think from
memory and anywhere else. Yeah, okay, So one of the
topics was paying hoss, defecting, switching jerseys, whichever whatever term
(10:27):
you want to use.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Can't I swear you can't say switching, can you?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
No? No, no, So if you're fired up when I said,
but what I want you to listen to, John, is
how blase these two guys are. Not to have a
crack at them, but let's pretend they're representative of Australian
Rugby League. Listen to their predictions if you like, for
(10:53):
English rugby League in the forthcoming series and.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
The Randy and a smallman, I just sort of strya
miso and tongue atam R Jesus puts pressure on England
at the end of the year and next year to
be able to come out and remain in that top
four because if you ever had full strength right now,
you have to put England on the outside of that
of that top four.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
So anyway, so I was upset because I know if
England do happen to win a Test or two Tests
this October, it will be all about how it happened.
Oh hello, it will all be about how Australia was
so weakened so again. And I mean because because one
of the problems with you is, because I can speak
(11:35):
with with quite a lot of experience of this, you
are quite arrogant when it comes to playing against the
English as a as a group, and you do take
it very easily. And I do understand why you are arrogant.
But as a brit myself and still got plenty of
as Britain English in May, I think there's nothing that
(11:57):
fires us up Mark. It's going to be a really
tough tour and every player that decides to not play
for Australia, I'll say that just so so it doesn't
bite my head off again. It's going to add more
fuel to the English fire. And the worst thing you
can ever do, Chad is right an englishman off.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
I'm looking forward to the Ashes series, but also the
try nations between the other three nations as well.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Do you want to come on a tour, Chad and
running a tour? Yeah, let's do it. The way that
made the amount of people that are switching jerseys, you
might get a game too.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
Or talk about England ever won the Ashes for fifty years.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
That's a story. All jokes aside, where Australia probably lack
a little bit of firepower when all these changes have happened,
particularly if Tino gold is in the front row. Have
a look at that when you when you've got five minutes, Sally,
have a look on.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
Five minutes and go Lindsey Smith, Lindsay Collins, Reuben Cotter a.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
I think we'll be okay, okay, wager with you. You're
picking half the squad from the n R l oh
England are picking off the squad from the n r
L two. So this is what I was talking about, Chad.
I love to see all my fellow English people. I'm
(13:30):
going to get this clip and I'm going to cut
it and just repeat it on my socials constantly.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
So uh, it's gonna be a whitewashed la three.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Let's have a wager, even with your even with your
bias referees, England will win a Test. England will win
a Test, and not only that, will win the cricket
one and all. Let's go all in. So, John, do
you agree with your I will m tipedem.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yes or no? I don't agree necessarily that it will
be three nil. I don't agree that England has no chance.
I do understand when when you've been winning or holding
the Ashes for fifty five years and Ingrad or Great
Britain has a won a World Cup since what nineteen
(14:25):
seventy two, and as you know, Ingrad or Great Britain
hasn't beaten Australia since two thousand and six, there would
be some arrogance, shall we say, But I guess it's
it's equivalent of is that arrogance?
Speaker 1 (14:40):
You know?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Is there some credence to it. Is it is it
a you know, is it born from a natural dominant
position or is it just the Australian way? Shall we?
I mean, I think that's open to debate and conjecture.
I'll do a very quick segway into rugby union. I
didn't see the game, but read the aftermath and saw
a quick clip of a Springbok fan who was very
(15:03):
happy at halftime. I think South Africa twenty two, Wallaby's
were five, and obviously we'll point out the South Africa
back to back Rugby World Cup champions. Wallaby's went on
to win that game score thirty eight points. Now, you know,
you could say the South Africans are very arrogant, but
they are the dominant force in rugby union, been for
(15:25):
nine years or whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
So Sawi's comment about England being the fifth best nation
or words to that effect, he said they're going to
have a fight to get into the top four of
the international realm. Your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, I don't necessarily agree with that. I think I
think any of those nations New Zealand, Samoa, tongare England,
and you throw Australia in that mix because obviously Tongla
have beaten Australia, what was it last year? The year before,
New Zealand beaten Australi regularly. They just don't stuck up.
(16:03):
I mean England whitewash the whitewash Tonga in the last
two years in the Autumn Tests, so you know, on
their day, I think England can beat anyone. The only
one that haven't been for a long time as we
know is Australia. But they haven't played Australia since twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So to be fair to Satui in the comment, he
did say at full strength. They were his word about
full strength. Don't let's revisit that when they were at
full strength. So let's say a neutral venue. I don't
know where the neutral venue would be because you know Singapore.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
As you know, mate, when is the team ever at
full strengths as a concept, I mean astral and Martin
won't play the Ashes, so we're Australia at full strengths.
Nold is injured exactly if Nathan Cleary does his shoulder
in the Grand Final or on the Semis and misses
the Ashes, or Australia at full strength. Maddy Ashton Mady
(16:58):
Ashton's down his acl I plan the Ashes. He would
have been an England squad of England at full strength.
I mean, now we've got to be We've got to
be a little bit serious about this. It's a strata.
Samoa and tonguare but as good as they could teams.
And they were very good and talented teams to England
in the last two years and I got dominated. And
that's credit to England and Sean Waynestein.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Can I give you something I'm not prepared you for.
I love a.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I love a what do you call it? I can't
speak Google, Yes, a curveball.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I can't speak your side. Now, if we're going to
talk about payinghouse in a moment, there's no pain hess.
Let's assume Tino that's Malae hamersel Tubo, I fid out
follow suit. I think I will right. Let's assume pick
(17:53):
an Australian seventeen.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Off the top of my head.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, we don't know else from.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
You, okay, Um James Tedesco, Yeah, agreed? Auhs a vy
Coat uh Latrell Mitchell, Tommy Turbo. Who's the other? What's
(18:23):
the name the paramatta? Nathan Cleary.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Monster in live in order to what you said though obviously, yes, yeah,
one's a six ones or seven?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Your smiles, Uh, Lindsay Colins, six comes before seven, don't
you check?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
You just check you.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Harry Grant?
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Who was your first prop? Sorry? Mate, sorry it was
too busy I put.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Down Lindsay Collins. But I mean I think I think
you can interchange, you know, of course, yea, Harry Grant. Yeah,
I think obviously we look at the two Origin teams.
You've got Pass, you've got Tino, you've got all. There's
a few other forwards in there. Trying to think who
(19:14):
was the other the Spencer will probably play for Spencer.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Meant that one before and I can't remember who he
said let me let me, let me keep it.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I'd throw in I'd throw in Staffano and then in
terms of the back row, i'd have Paddy Cagan at lock.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Oh probably, I think I think Carrigan was the prop.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think because.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
You would have been the lock, wouldn't it?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
So of course I forgot yes, when you when you
give me no notice, I can't you know my brain,
there would be the lock.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Anyone would think you're messaging me every thirty seconds saying
what's on the rundown? We there's a professional podcast Brighton.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, Crichton, Ruben Cotter. And then you're looking at a
bench of I actually quite like I like Watson. I
like what he brings off the bench, So I I
have Ken Watson in there.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I mean the other option is obviously Tommy Didon. So
you know, you wouldn't have both of them, but you could,
you could have one or the other. Stefano maybe thee
is he not going to play for there's a I
think there's a there's a number of players there, you
(20:42):
know who could feel who could feel you know, Hudson Young,
some other ones I'm missing.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
But there's another prop that escaped me and you Okay, anyway,
we've got the people probably listening to this guy. It's
all right, Turbo likely to be fit no next week
(21:13):
or rather than best. Maybe Latrell has been in and
out with injuries. One still or clearly get injured. Ethan Strange.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Well, I mean there's the thing with reptans, particularly earlier year.
There's always a couple of bolts, isn't there. And you
have to look at how well Camber have been going
and whether you're throwing you know one or two of
those those players, and then it's the same with the Bulldogs.
You know a carras you know he's been the cost
(21:49):
of origin selections.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
So that side you've named does that beat England?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I think it does in a three test series?
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, okay, pain, harsh, massive loss. I think yes, best
proper I've seen for a long time. The question that
it begs for me is what is bigger in twenty
twenty five? Is it the Ashes or playing for Samoa
(22:20):
Tonga Cook Island?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
What's bigger are you talking about for those players or are
you talking about you know, neutrally as in.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
What column a columbe So the stance, the stance I took.
And I know Pain. I don't know him inside out,
but me in Pain see each other, we say hello,
ask how each other to do it right. So I'm
very happy for him that he's made that choice. But
for Lee Addison, I wanted him to play for Australia
(22:53):
and I wanted to I want t Know to play
for Australia. I want hammer So Taboa Fidele to play
for Australia because I don't want to hear the whole
We've had too many players leave us if England do
win a test or two. So from a purely selfish
point of view, I wanted to see that happen. I
also wanted to see where England really were in the
(23:16):
pantheon because on my social media in particular, I often
say how much better the NRL is, and then I
get accused from English people by English people for this,
that and the other.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
So it's a fact that the NRL is a better
competition people, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
But I guess the question is how much? Right?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
And yeah, that's that's.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And I think the ultimate test in my life has
been the ashes okay of the two competitions. And he also,
excuse me, I'm coughing a bit because it's so late
at my night, John, it's my nighttime cough. You know
from the little ailments I had you that you've got,
(24:08):
you have to smoke, don't you together the how guilty
would you feel now if it just attacked me and
I died.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
A little bit?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah? Yeah, but you know back in the day, right
two thousand and three, two thousand and one, ninety seven,
ninety four, nineteen ninety which we're going to talk about
the end of this podcast today. It was a great
way of looking at the difference in standards on both
sides of the world. Obviously nineteen eighty two showed that starkly.
(24:43):
I think if you look at the history of British
performances against Australia in these three match series, the rot
actually started to set in before it set in, in
the sense that they were just scraping home series wins
in the seventies at times. So the woman and then
(25:05):
it dipped.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, I was going to say it wasn't. Wasn't part
of that with the and you know, correct me, you're
probably more of a story than me. There was a band,
wasn't it of foreign players coming into the UK from
Australia in was it the early seventies? And I think,
as you said, probably the rot started to set in
mid to late seventies. The gap was really evident too.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, you're you're right. And then there was a series
I think it was seventy nine because it was just
out of cycle for whatever reason, Britain picked a test
team for the second Test at oddsll Can you imagine
the Test match at Ostal Now.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
They'll be super the next year.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, and they called they called that's a different podcast
for me to do that one. They called the team
Dad's Army because it was old fat men basically, and
I use the term fat because what popped up in
eighty two was overweight British players in some places against
(26:10):
very fit humans from Australia. Or were they humans? That's
that's the next question. But so it's always been that
show of the of the talent on both sides of
the world, and quite frankly Australia with Painhass, Tino Hammer
(26:35):
and actually everyone who qualifies for Australia too. So Stephen Crichton,
I could go on and Brian talk, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Right, I mean probably Fisher Harris.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
So, I mean, what would happen John, And I think
it would be quite significant. I think it would be
fifty points kind of thing, don't I.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Don't know if it'd be fifty I think it would be. Yeah,
I think it would be more one side. But just
to jump back a bit, you were saying about you
don't want people saying this and that or we'll miss
these players. But I'll jump to another sport analogy again.
Cricket two thousand and five if Glen McGrath doesn't roll
his ankle over. I think it was a sharer and
a non student. But after Australia had literally pulled England's
(27:23):
pants down at Lord's in the first Test, you probably
don't go on and win that series, which was a
watershed moment for cricket globally, let alone in England.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
So do you remissed out something very important there?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
What was that?
Speaker 1 (27:37):
The toss that day at Edgebuster, Yeah, where Ricky Porton
still regrets it to this day, I.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Think, and the substitute fielder and also the.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
The moment sliding doors.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Colapsed in the train, which meant I missed most of
that day's test and only saw the last five minutes
the last over get out and he wasn't out. But
we didn't have the RS then, so.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I got into Old Trafford on the fifth day. Well,
I had a little brother who's now father of a
child you've still got yeah, and made him pushing what
you're doing. And the next thing, yeah, we were in
the queue and we were too big. Nor did would
to argue, Yeah, you're right, and.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
I control that discussion.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
But this is an avalanche of players not playing John
this is like this is like virtually the whole team
collapsing on a steed and or a sharing and then
replacing them with another team, isn't it. So I think
that is a.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Good thing for the sport. That's a great thing for sport.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
But what if England loser to this?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Now, if England lose, then I guess it shows, you know,
there'd be some hard truth that a lot of people
in the UK have ignored for you still don't want
to admit. Now, maybe they'll have I don't think they
will because there's fifty odd years of evidence, but maybe
they'll lead to some positive change. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
So about three hours ago I asked the question what's
bigger in twenty twenty five? Some ore and tonguer versus whoever?
Or the Ashes? And I don't you know, we went
off on tangents, So I'll bring us back to that question. So, yeah,
in your in your eyes, so smaller versus tongue at
(29:34):
some court, he's going to be sold out. I think
it already has sold out. Yeah, the Ashes take place
on the other side of the world. Yeah, you can
only watch one of those games? Which one will you
be watching?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
I've watched The Ashes.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
What do you think most people will be watching.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I think it depends. It depends who they are when
I live and what they're into. I think, look, the
Ashes has got over one hundred years or history. You
said some comp will be sold out, will Everton will
be sold out. It's about the same size Wembley. I
think we're sitting in around forty five thousand. I think
I'd like to hope it will get to sixty or seventy.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I think Samoa and Tonga is a growing rivalry and
it gets people excited. I don't think it has the
history or the widespread support, and that's partly because tom
Are and Tonga just in pure population sizes in terms
of the world, are very small nations. You know, they're
(30:41):
not well there are not rich countries and be they're
not massive countries. What's the population in the UK sixty
seventy million. In the population of Australias what twenty five?
So yeah, I think as a contest Tomorrow and Tonga
maybe in ten years, maybe in five years, I don't know.
But they don't play each other enough, do they.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
I think Samoa or Tongue will winning the next World
Cup tip, we'll tip that across.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yes, I think I think that was the you know,
and I covered the twenty twenty two World Cup closer.
It was one of the big things was the rise
of Samorrow making a final and obviously if they weren't
that next step in won a final, that would be
that would be huge. It would be you know, it's
a good news story that would go across sport, wouldn't it.
(31:29):
You know, like Japan beating South Africa in the rugby
Union fifteen, you know that other I'm trying to think
of a cricket one, but there's been there's been big
upsets in cricket, you know, likes of Ireland and Netherlands
and Bangle and the like.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I the interesting thing though, when you said what's bigger
to those players? When I spoke to Harry Smith a
week ago and I was talking about the Ashes and
I was saying about the history, and I was like, oh,
but wait a minute, you you didn't see the last
things like no, because it was three years old.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
This is the Wigan half.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yes, the Wigan half who's the well will most likely
be the starting seven for England, but the younger for
the players today for paying half for Tino. They didn't
grow up with the Ashes, so you can't expect them
necessarily to have the same emotional as they do the
state of origin as they do toriage. They still hate
(32:23):
Australia though, who Harry Smith English footballers will believe. I
think English people generally hate Australia just.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Like especially if they're a journalist.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, I love bringing it down our colonial throats.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
That's right, That's right. Any news from England in terms
of injuries or anything.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
I think one one has been interesting has been the
form of Junior December, the big rangey second rower from Wigan.
His form has been down and he's copped a lot
of criticism and he was expected to be a first
game on the team shoot one of the first names.
You know. He's probably the the next big face of
(33:10):
English rugby league in the kind of ellery Hanley mold
not to put to expectations, so his forms to being down,
So that's been interesting. I think the other one is
it's big Herbie. But he's only out for about four weeks,
isn't he.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
We think so Yeah. I spoke to his uncle last
week and he thinks he'll be fine. For the Ashes.
So can I put you on the spot? John?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yeah, just last night I was going to say if
Herbie Farnworth is unavailable for England, that would be disaster.
I think he is one of the painful of English
players and you put Michael Lewis in that. But who
would really scare the Ausies Gold to put you on
the spot, John, you can England seventeen please.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
As we sit here today.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
I think the England sevent is probably easier to pick.
Jack Wells b.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
He is he going to be fit?
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Yes, he's The latest update is he will be fit
before the end of the season. Oh, wingers, wingers, wingers
wingers Tom Johnston from Wigan, sorry, from Wakefield?
Speaker 1 (34:17):
And is he he'd be a debutant one.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
No, he's played I think at least two tests.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
The other winger? Oh, Tom Young? Obviously Tom Young. He'll
be a certainty in the Senner's Jake Wardle and he'll
be farm Worth.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Where's Wardle?
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Where is he? Who's he played for?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah? Not like where is he right now?
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Well, he's probably in Wigan and he does play for Wigan.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Okay, just shows how much Super League I've seen lately.
I'm just not in touch with it.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Oh you remember he was the player who scored the
famous trying the World Cup Challenge against Februar where it
was kind of spun around and people dummy out in
the halves. I think it will be George Williams at
six and Harry Smith at seven, So no Mikey Lewis.
(35:13):
I think he'll be on the bench again. In the forwards,
you're looking at the front row of Maddie Lees.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
And mm hmm, where's Matt Lee's club St Heaven's.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
I'm trying to think of who would the other might be? Yeah,
it might be Ethan Havard, He's a Wigan. I think
the last Burgess boy has not had a great season
at Hardsfield, but Shaun Wynn does like he's loyal when
it comes to selections.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Is that one.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
One of the twins, the one who starting I look
the bloody Actually pretty sure it's Tom Pretty sure.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
I think I coached him.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I think I think hooker will be Darryl Clark. But
there's a bit of competition there with Jesse Litten and
Danny Walker as well.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
We discussed that in detail last time, remember yeah, and
then are you picking well?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I think he. I think he's likely to be in
the seventeen. But the way the form is that this
is a good thing for England. They've got some some
really good forwards and I've got some depth there. So
you got back row, you've got potential, you've got Maddie Nicholson,
you've got Morgan Smithy's, you've got an Incember, you've got
John Bateman, you've got Morgan Knowles, you've got Victor Radley.
(36:50):
So that's thirteen.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah, that's probably a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, you've got you've got Elliott Minchella, whole k Are captain, the.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Whole Vidler just can't get knocked out again. I think
you probably can't get on the exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah. Yeah, there's there's a lot of good a lot
of good forwards there.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Talking of good forwards, the nineteen ninety Kangaroo Tool, how
old were you then, John, I was nine years old.
Do you remember the nineteen ninety ashes too?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Not really?
Speaker 1 (37:27):
No, I want to name the touring squad to you
to start. You just tell me if you know all
of them. Okay, we'll do it like that. Greg Alexander, Yes,
the Great Brandy, the Brandy. Everybody's seeing him on Fox
Sport over here, Gary Belcher.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Great Camber and Queensland Marines.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Perhaps I'm also Fox for a while. Marty beller.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Man as a cat snake Fromer merely for front row
mustache Bold.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah you'll know this one well, apparently love and he
was up south when he came on this tour.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, but he saw the light and came to mainly
the money.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
One of the other John Cartwright, Cardie of course, Laurie
Daily was yep, ENnie Elias back door Benny Ye Andrew
ettings Housen at.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
The best looking man in rugby league for a while. Yeah,
Cana legend Brad Fittler Freddie Frittler came from Penrith and
then the Roosters.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yep, Mark Geyer mg the mad Ben from David Gillespie.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Cement Gillespie another mainly legend.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
For Michael Hancock.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Absolutely mad.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
I should get him on the podcast. Actually remind me
of one.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I think you remember. You must remember his playing the balls.
He used to hunt the ground to try and win penalties.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Also Sulford player mate. So I'm just I'm just righting
myself and a reminder I'm going to get him on
the podcast because I know him well.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Dead sulfured Red Devils who played for Well, as did
John Cartright.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
That's right, Desmond Hasler.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Well what can we say that? There's the former Catholic
school teacher, just legend, an enigma, Chris John's. Yes, he
was the Bronco. He used to play for New Soles.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
And no relation. Alan Langer. Have you heard of him?
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I have heard of him, the Warrington Great.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yep, I have Glenn Lazarus, the brick with Eyes Linda
I don't.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Remember, but Bobby Linda, Well, but I know he was
a very good role playing Queensland who had a spell
it not whole Car. I'm thinking of Gavin and Miller.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Whole Car, Castleford and then Oldham in ninety three and
ninety four. I think I watched him play for Oldham.
I remember that Cliff Lions.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Probably one of my favorite players of all time in history,
Rugby Mackay, very very good back row forward for the Steelers.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
What what's making me laugh is how many of these
players sons I've coached as well.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Malmoninger I shook his hand once and it almost broke
every finger in my.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Mark mcgare.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Sparks, I'll give you a fact because you probably don't
know this league. Sparkles McGough, apart from having a great
career for Crnalla and he was in Australia, was a
referee on the original Gladiators in Aussie in the in the.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
I'm glad I know all that now. Steve Blocker Roach.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yes, the block yep O man great. I think his
highlight of his career was padding. I can't remember the
refer padding.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
The after he got I didn't. I don't remember this
fellow in the Australian Jersey, Mark Sergeant Well.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
I mean as I'm from Newcastle and grew up watching
a lot of it. Was a Newcastle legend, big, big
front row forward. Just before Well he did play with
Paul Harrigan, but just in the generation a few years
ahead of him.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Dale Shearer, Rowdy the Great Dale Hearer from playing for
Brisbane and Queensland. Lot of Dale Sharer and Alan Langer
got in common and it's a link to me.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Ones from Ipswich, the ones from McKay.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
They both went to Ipswich State High School which I
coached and turned into a force. Yeah there you go,
and they were there when it wasn't a force, So
I did it without they'll share of all Fielanger, Paul
(42:22):
Sarah then zero.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Yeah, great, great player for the man he was and
he's two boys are now Saint Helens and Katloins respectively.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Ricky Stewart.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Sticky freak camera half back forming.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Carrod and Kevin Walters Kevin and Kerrod yep. Yeah, isn't
that some tour inside?
Speaker 2 (42:48):
I mean that it's funny when you when you go
back through teams like that, and I think we did
this in what the two thousand and one and two
thousand and three and then the ninety ninety four Society
with a Great Brita. They're just literally really stacked with
absolutely stacked with legendary players. Yeah, there's no weak links
in those teams.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Nineteen New South Welshman nine Queen Lambers do you reckon
they'd get away with that now, record aggregate crowd of
one hundred and thirty three, six hundred and eighty four
attending the Test series. Do some quick maths. We're not
going to get near that this time, are we.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Or are we're going to We're going to beat that.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Fifty five at Everton? Yeah, nineteen Headingly Yeah and we'll get,
we'll get We'll get seventy. Okay, I don't think that
was a record, by the way, I'm just saying.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
And if we don't, I'll just the RFL will just
add on a couple of tes and to make sure
we do.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
That beat the previous record set during the nineteen forty
eight four nine Kangaroo Tour. Wow and sixty six thousand
more than attended the nineteen eighty eight series in Australia.
So putting it into context, Great Britain had won the
last Test in nineteen eighty eight, so Mal really was
the coach of Britain and he was getting them sorted again.
(44:19):
They went to Saint Helens and flogged them in the
first game, went to Wakefield Trinity and beat them heavily
thirty six sixteen, went to Wigan, which was unofficially seen
as the Fourth Test, and beat them heavily thirty four
to six. Here's a question for you, would you know
some of these players in the Wigan side?
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Well, I wanted you to give me the Great Britain
side to see how many I could wait till you
get there.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
They've not played yet. I'm scrolling down in chronological order,
Steve Hampson having a row or hero, Yes, mainly man
the X Men play all right, Joe Iden, the famous
Jo Yes. David Marshall, No, Sean David Marshall and we've
(45:13):
got a Wikipedia entry is one of them that's read.
Sean Edwards.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Andy Gregory also heard him. Ian Lucas No, good player,
Martin Durmott, Yes, great player. Kelvin Skerrett.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
He was good at taking people's heads off. I believe.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Dennis pets.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
That's what you're missing the book. That's the I can't speak,
that's the Yeah. I've had the joy of interviewing Dennis
quite a few times, and not only was he a
great player, but he's quite a funny.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
He's a great interview, gives you and a good way.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
I have heard the name Elwy Hamley.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
He could pay a bit.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Bobbie Goulding.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Seems a bit loose these days, but he could also play.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
I just have one problem with what he said there
these days. I think Bobby has always been.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
I was trying to be kindly, okay.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Ian Gildart, I.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Think I would know investors all of Oliver Gildard's dad.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
But yeah, Mark Preston, No Mike Foreshow.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Mike Foreshaw, who I believe wasn't until recently the defense
coach for Wales rugby union national team.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
And also David Waite in two thousand and one two
said he was technically the best player in England. The
coach of Wigan was John Money and Australian there. Then
went to Cumbria and for ten and most of their
players are in red by the way and Wikipedia. Cumbria
Leeds quite close game actually twenty two to ten. I
(47:14):
was looking at some of the names. Anyway, now we're
on the Ashes series. Okay, So first test was at
Wembley and it was a crowd of fifty four five
hundred and sixty nine. Both sides named the side that
was previously expected of them, but Laurie Daly suffered a
(47:39):
broken hand against Leeds, so Ricky Stewart played at five eight.
Great Britain won this game nineteen twelve. Two tries from Paulicewood,
one from Martin Offia, three goals from Paul Eicewood and
a field goal by Gary Schofield and Ingram Martin mcgore
(48:01):
scored the tries for Australia. And malmon Inger only scored
two out of four goals with his toe punting. The
referee was Alan Alaine Saba Rolls from France.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
That's that really rolled off the tongue.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Yes, sorry for all this coffin guys, and Gary Scorefield
got man in the match, so yeah, I'll go through
the Britain side now. Steve Hampson mentioned Paul Eastwood. Was
that name? Ringer Bell? Were you old enough to remember
the nineteen ninety two tour of Britain to Australia when
(48:38):
Britain when Britain beat Australia at Melbourne?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Yes, vaguely yeah, and I have I have watched clips
of that game.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Particularly was the kicker who spent over each.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Kick himself, the legend. Gary Schofield instructed to watch.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
The Daryl Powell was in the center as the couldrn't
Wakefield coach Carl Gibson. Have you heard that name? Heard
it but never saw himply off here at five Schofield six,
Andy Gregory seven. Carl Harrison was a prop.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
I know Carl Harrison well interviewed him a few times.
He was a coach of Salford. His son now plays
for Warrington and I had a beer with him in Vegas.
He's a good name.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Lee Jackson was the hooker.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
The former Newcastle Knights hooker who helped him steal the
Grand Faal win from Mainly seven.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Paul Dixon No, No, Brafford, bulls Well, Bradford, Northan. I
should say Denny Spets was in the second role. Roy Powell,
who's no longer with us unfortunately, Ellery Hanley A locke
Well loose forward as the English call. The substitutes were
Carl Fairbanks. Do you know that name?
Speaker 2 (49:59):
The name does about that?
Speaker 1 (50:00):
I know you'll know this next name, Kevin Ward.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
The Great Kevin Ward, Clive Churchill Clive Churchill Medal winner
nineteen ninety sorry, nineteen eighty seven for mainly.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
After getting off the bus from England.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
The plane I think before the day, I mean, yeah,
a freak.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Australia then went to Warrington and won twenty six six.
So what's interesting about that first test is Australia are
flogging everyone in Clubland basically, but lost the first Test.
Castleford were beaten twenty eight eight on the fourth November.
I don't know why I gave the day then, but
(50:43):
what Halifax were given were beaten thirty six eighteen and
the Second Test is probably the greatest Test match ever?
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Can I just interrupted for a second early? I think
what's interesting too is that I think obviously Halifax for
a different club now to what they were then, but
the closes relative closest with the scores, and I think
that's the way the game was played there. Like we
have a lot more blowouts now because of six again
and because of different things, the rest on whatever. But
you know, if if the Kangaroo's played Bradford at the
(51:16):
end of this year, you'd be looking at yeah, yeah,
if they played Halifa, actually be looking at it at
one hundred. But yeah, what.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
About if you play the super excite.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
That's I mean, it depends on the super excited Salford. Yeah,
it'll be a different it'll be a different story if
you put Warrington or Leeds.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
The Second Test. Surely you know about this game, probably
the best Test match ever, arguably the best game ever
Old Trafford mm hmm, it was brilliant. I encourage anybody
who hasn't seen it watch the full thing. It was
Saturday the tenth of November Great Britain ten Australia fourteen.
(52:07):
Paul Dixon, Paul Laughlan scored tries for Britain, Paul lice
would kicked one out of three goals, Dale Shearer, Cliff
Liones and maum Inger scored tries and Maninger kicked one
goal and couldn't kick Maninger, but Ricky Stewart made that
break gave the ball to Malmaninger to finish the British
(52:30):
off in in the very dying minutes of the game.
And basically Britain was super close back then to winning
the Ashes. Of that I think they could have got
a draw. I think they would level at the time
or could have got level or something like that. But
(52:51):
put it this way, we were that close to it,
only being thirty five years since the jug were won.
Because it was super close, John, super close, and I
implore everybody to watch watch it on YouTube because fantastic game.
The commentators, the Australian commentators are going absolutely nuts. Have
(53:14):
you Are you familiar with that game?
Speaker 2 (53:17):
Yeah, I mean I'm more familiar with the final two
minutes in the match winning player, but yeah, I'm also
familiar with As I mentioned before, Scoey telling me he's
still every time he sees Lee Jackson because I believe
it was Lee Jackson's who fell for Ricky Stewart's dummy
out of the mazy run, and the claim was that,
(53:40):
you know, if anyone wasn't going to fall for a dummy,
it was Lee Jackson and dam and they still give
it to him now, apparently thirty five years later. But yeah,
just a just a remarkable I mean to have been
at that game, a kind of crescendo of emotion and
the change, you know. Yeah, just just a remarkable contest
(54:02):
and as you mentioned, with those two sides, just absolutely
stacked with world class players on both teams.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
I regret that I wasn't out that game. I was
there at the eighty six test, but didn't go to
that test because I was just obsessed with Manchester City
and I think City were playing that weekend, so oh
well we did four years before. Yeah, spit on the
ground every time we go there. But the yeah, the
(54:34):
everything about it, it was just fantastic. It was great football,
full crowd, British fans at their best too. I know
I've said this already, but I really do suggest to
anybody listening watch that game on YouTube and if you
tell me that the Ashes doesn't mean something after watching
(54:57):
that Martin off. He was interviewed in twenty twenty five
apparently by Fox League and said he thinks that with
his pace he could have stopped the try from being
scored because he was actually in the treatment room at
the time. He was off the field.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
I mean, I think the thing with Martin is you
can't with his confidence.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
No, no, so boyd by that. Australia then went to
Hull and won thirty four to four. Windness were vanquished
fifteen to eight. I'm laughing at these Whole and Witness
(55:38):
because with the no clear interview he did, he was
talking about going to these venues and no Clill did
play at Witness so with his brother and then the
third Oh, Witness were world champions at the time.
Speaker 2 (55:53):
By the way, Well, I've just I've just clicked on
the Wikipedia pages talking and there's some pretty handy Kurt
Sorenson obviously, Jonathan Davies, John Devru, Andy Courrier, Harvey.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
Howard who would play prop for England and we're going
in the Brisbane Broncos while was he in.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
The left wing.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
He came back one off season and also when he left.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
Coached by the late Doggie Lawton, who obviously was a
pretty handy player. I think he probably won and that's
a series or two in his playing days.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
A senior fire my love, great player. We used to
call him fly molder. They still sell those in England
flying mold lawnmowers. Third Test, Australia won fourteen from memory
and rare having watched it again because I get excited.
(56:51):
I think Britain were a bit deflated, if I'm honest
after that Test, just a little bit. Ricky Stewart got
Man of the Matches that game in front of thirty
two thousand, five hundred people. They then went on to
France played the President's thirteen forty six eighteen France B
(57:11):
seventy eight six Leon.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Can you imagine France B against against Greg Alexander and
Brad Fittler.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
And Australia sixty France four in the first Test on
Sunday the second of December nineteen ninety. The second Test
came after a game against Lang Longua Deck Russlon who
I've played against for Eccles, and Australia beat them ninety
(57:49):
sorry thirty eight nine. And the second Test was the
ninth of December. France were beaten thirty four to ten.
I don't know if I've asked you this on this podcast.
When was the last time France beat Australia. If I
asked you that.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
I think your motto. I think off the top of
my head it was the seventies, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (58:14):
It was the day before I was born, which was
so literally Australia have never been beaten by France in
my lifetime.
Speaker 2 (58:26):
Well, I don't think Brents have beaten England or Great
Britain since the early nineties either.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
Yeah, I think you might be right. I think you
might be right. Good to see you, John. I'm sure
everybody is more excited about the Ashes.
Speaker 2 (58:42):
Now after that, after all the arrogance.
Speaker 1 (58:45):
I'm sorry about the coffee just for you as well,
because blame John, because I was starting to feel okay.
I've had a little bit of the man Man flew
as you know, but starting to feel better. But because
you've made me record later at night, I'm getting my
nighttime coughs or blame you, John.
Speaker 2 (59:02):
Gets some big on the chest, He'll be all right.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
You can get me at Rugby League Coach dot com
to tey you and Rugby League Coach on social just
remind people where they can get you.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
John you get me on Exit. Johnny D. Davidson, you
can get me on Patreon, at Rugby league hub dot com,
long reads, and often in the ipaper.
Speaker 1 (59:22):
And we'll have some more interviews hopefully in the next
couple of weeks, including the person that's coming on the
Kangaroo tour with me that I'm going to announce pretty soon.
Take care,
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