July 8, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of Ask Mom and Dad, Greg and Tonya continue the conversation on one of the most vital aspects of faith: learning to recognize God's voice. Picking up where last week left off, they go deeper into the everyday struggle of hearing God in the midst of noise, emotion, and spiritual confusion.Is it really God speaking—or just your own thoughts, feelings, or stress? How do you make space to listen when life won't slow down? With real stories, biblical insight, and a few light-hearted moments, this episode invites you to consider what it means to tune your heart to God's leading in real life.
Discerning God’s Voice in a Noisy World
Navigating Emotion vs. Holy Spirit Promptings
Why God’s Silence Isn’t Always Absence
Hearing Differently in Relationships
Walking with God Through Spiritual Uncertainty
Discerning God’s Voice in a Noisy World
Navigating Emotion vs. Holy Spirit Promptings
Why God’s Silence Isn’t Always Absence
Hearing Differently in Relationships
Walking with God Through Spiritual Uncertainty
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Okay.
(00:01):
[music]
Well, it's time again for us to try this crazy conversation.
Oh, that's right.
Ask mom.
And dad.
Because usually we'll call it, even though I don't know if our kids even listen right now,
(00:22):
but maybe they will eventually.
Our kids have never listened, not since the day they were born.
That's not true.
Oh, okay.
That was a full-on joke.
However, there's a couple that actually do this.
One had been requested.
[applause]
No, that's crickets.
He doesn't have his headphones on.
So he says, "Was this the button?
Or was this the button?"
No, you're good.
You did the clap.
[laughter]
(00:42):
How's that?
Blaster?
Yeah, way too many people in the room.
So only time you can hear anything that's happening in the room.
Okay.
That should be interesting.
Anyway, good to have you tuning in with us for whatever reason drew you to find out what
(01:06):
we were going to talk about today.
I'm not even exactly sure myself.
What are we talking about today?
I don't know.
There's a lot of things we can talk about.
What's been going on in your life these days?
Well, we had a kind of busy week.
We have a lot of people coming and going.
Several times.
We have a lot of people coming going, several coming to try to get jobs here, which is good for Tennessee because there are jobs here although our little small community, I'm not quite sure.
(01:29):
Looking for jobs are coming to Tennessee, but avoid our campground.
And the problem is finding a place to live is the stressor, because I'm not seeing that available too much anyway.
It's good. I mean, you've actually, it's kind of nice because we've been home actually for a week now without anyone leaving town going into any threatening to.
(01:50):
Although next week we'll probably have people coming in because of holidays.
But you know, it's one of those things where it's not been the end of the world.
Well, on church on Sunday we had some cool visitors from the British television show.
A very low, low intrusive small camera setup that was not at all low intrusive or small camera setup.
Well, it wasn't.
Over the top, but and we had four warnings. So that's okay.
(02:13):
Yeah.
It was kind of neat though.
I did see, I did see some photos on Instagram from our family that's over and over there hugging and having a good time and seeing all the sites.
I'm really jealous. I think they got the better into the deal.
So yeah, I'm sure they did.
Anyway, as we look at some things to talk about, we have a whole lot of things.
(02:34):
I think last time I just kind of peeled off of some questions that we ran into because I had come to gone through some old podcast and just kind of used the power of AI and said,
"Oh, there's some questions we left open." And then it hit me with so many questions that we don't answer.
And I feel like suddenly I felt insignificant because I didn't answer all the right questions.
And so I'm just going to kind of, you know, we just took the list and we're just kind of going through it and seeing some things.
(02:55):
Some of the subject matter that we've talked about last week, last week we talked about hearing God's voice versus just,
I like to say, is it God or is it gas? Is it just, you know, I'm feeling this presence of God, which sounds really rude when you put it when I think about it or say it out loud.
But, you know, determining the difference between God's voice and just your own head space when you're brain.
(03:17):
But, you know, that's still an ongoing, there will always be an ongoing discussion, especially we have 20-something kids who are just newly married and trying to figure out
one person might hear from God one way and one another way. And then there's struggles, physical or financial or different types.
(03:42):
Without being specific, there's always something going on that the enemy wants to rile up and challenge you with.
And God wants to lead you through. And I just think that that topic could be exhausted even more.
Yeah, I don't think it's ever an end to the question of how do you hear God's voice. I think we struggle with it because, well, I mean, you think about it.
(04:07):
I mean, there was a silent period or God, I mean, God used to speak to us through prophets and through, and through, and the Old Testament, right?
There was a, it was very rare because an Adam and Eve, when they walked with God, I think this was schools. Adam and Eve walked with God in the garden every single day.
And because of what Jesus has done for us, we have that same access. It's still though we have to work through where Adam and Eve didn't have a barrier of sin until they did.
(04:34):
We have that, we still have the fact that we live in a world that's surrounded and engulfed with the corruption that's come with the fallen world and have to battle our own corruption.
So even though God's still because of the Holy Spirit walks with us daily, we still have to battle our own, our own self.
Well, and what I think is unique is the way the Holy Spirit is approached in the full Bible and the Old Testament and New Testament.
(04:59):
It's, it's kind of confusing because I mean, you said they walked with God in the garden. And yet we think of God as not really having a physical form, except when he came to earth as Jesus.
So did Jesus actually physically take walks with them in the garden or was it that they knew God's presence in a, in a real way so they knew they were with him, but not necessarily physically tangible.
(05:27):
You know, those kinds of things are confusing.
Yeah. And then when we know that he spoke, it seems as if he appeared like the Oaks of memory with Abraham kind of almost makes you think all three, you know, fathers are in the Holy Spirit standing there and under the Oaks.
I don't know. That's a confusing passage as well as and but they spoke directly to some of the prophets. Abraham heard God's voice, but then he also had a vision in the night of God and the fire pots.
(05:57):
And from what the description almost sounds like they were invisibly floating, you know, supernatural, crazy kind of, but they were sort of a story almost anything.
Pieces of the sacrifice. All those kind of things make you make you kind of sense that it's never really been, it's never really changed.
Jesus came to earth so his physical presence was with was with us for that short period of time, those 33 years or so. And he was trying to bring an understanding of God's presence with us.
(06:31):
And then when he sent the Holy Spirit to live in us, we were, I do believe we were supposed to understand it in a new way.
But there's things like, you know, that the Holy Spirit visited Saul and David and the Bible says the spirit.
And then afterward when Paul was finding direction, like right before the, when he was visiting the vision by the Macedonian group church who was asking him to come,
(07:06):
it says that the spirit of Jesus hindered them from going to a particular, whatever they had said, we'll see where is it at.
It's in chapter 16, I think of Acts.
They had been hindered from going to a place. I can't find that mention.
(07:29):
But then he had seen the vision of the Macedonian man asking them to come. So anyway, there it is, it's verse 6. He went through the region of Virgin Galatians were prevented by the Holy Spirit and then one other version of the Bible says the spirit of Jesus from speaking the message in Asia.
So I'm just saying to me, there's the thread throughout the scriptures that it's not a lot different.
(07:53):
We don't hear God's voice in a lot different of a way. We just, so we have to be sensitive to what he's doing, where he's at, where he's at work, and where he's leading us.
And the Holy Spirit with us ought to make us attuned to that. The Bible says he'll remind us of the truths that Jesus spoke while he was on earth as well as, you know, lead us.
(08:16):
Yeah, I'm listening to what you're saying. I'm looking at the questions and how to build up on it because I'm thinking of myself. One of the things that is so we talked about the different here. We don't hear God's voice differently.
We still hear God's voice through that process. There is a sense of the Holy Spirit speaking to us. And through the, through the word.
(08:39):
So from what you're saying, as far as the scripture consistently throughout the way in which we understand and experience God.
What I was looking at and thinking about in that regard is how the different ways in which we see throughout church history in which we've been taught how to understand and hear the voice of God.
(09:02):
So what's the scripture is the primary way we do it now I understand from what you were talking about is there's a consistency throughout scripture as to how God reveals himself to us.
So what David here from the scriptures, what what scriptures did he have and also like, like Saul, I mean the Holy Spirit came to him. So what scriptures would he have heard? I mean, I don't, I don't get the impression they had a whole lot of scripture spoke through.
(09:23):
Absolutely they did. So Saul and them they had they had the pinotooke they had they had the beginnings of what was happening and understanding the word. And they had the prophets and they had an Abraham did not Abraham had God's voice directly at that moment.
So when what do you think about the passage at the oaks of mommy when he felt like God was present, you know, physically present with him was that the same as like in the garden or.
(09:49):
I don't know if it's the same as in the garden. I was thinking about that when you said it first time I was trying to process how does God.
How would God so some would say that Jesus was a pre incarnate presence in the garden and and I don't and I don't think that's a stretch. I think that's a reasonable thing. God Jesus has always been there. He's the same yesterday.
So did Jesus could when God walked with him in the garden was it Jesus is the same things true about Abraham at the oaks the anytime we see a physical expression of God in scripture.
(10:20):
The assumption for Christians is that that's a pre incarnate aspect of God.
So so is that the way God talked to them most all the time when we say God when we heard God said.
I mean it was most time a prophet that would speak something but but that's not the same as when we are we the same accountability I think what I'm trying to get at is what accountability to hearing the Holy Spirit's voice do we have now.
(10:44):
Did they have him present and.
Allowedly they got they really got punished for not doing what they were told to do and it must be that God had made it very clear to them whereas these days the Holy Spirit with us it's still sort of vague it's not.
So obviously sometimes they I mean it should be according to the scripture it feels like it should be there.
(11:12):
So how do you instruct someone who is young immature maybe trying their best to obey God and they have tink of amends and they have the scriptural principles that we've taught them or you know if they've grown up in a family that's in how do you teach them how to hear and know what God has spoken to them that that's what this wrestling matches that's what I'm trying to.
(11:38):
Understand what there's some things tiny you're not going to be able to teach them when they're young because they don't have the time in to hear now I understand even at our age we struggle to hear things but I think we struggle to hear God's voice sometimes at a richer level because sometimes time and I feel like right the opposite I feel like I heard his voice so clear sometimes it.
(12:01):
You know there were like college times where you're able to be focused able to be a little bit more really walking in the spirit obedient kind of more and then like Paul said we get married we have other things to focus on so you don't hear quite as clearly so I get the experience of it if that's what you're saying.
I think I think age and experience can cloud your ability to hear just as much as it can clarify your ability here it depends on where you lean and how you lean on on those kinds of things I think you know I'm jealous sometimes I think and when I mean jealous and maybe the right way.
(12:35):
You know I wish there's some who I see that as they've gotten older they hear it seems to me as an outsider looking at them and maybe coveting what they seem to have is that it seems like they hear a lot more clearly than I do at the stage with game.
I may not be true they may just come off that way to me but who.
Just 20 somethings I mean I'm just talking when I look at anybody I when I'm when I'm looking at how I hear versus how someone is I'm going to say I'm looking at someone who's where I'm at the journey in other words how long they've been walking with the Lord because what I'm saying is.
(13:10):
The couple things going on your clear callings when you were younger we're not calling is about a decision that you maybe they were I'm sorry I'm going to speak to that we're not necessarily callings about a clear decision that needed to be made about this little thing in the moment there are some stories about that right but by and large on the day today and some of the struggles you just had to struggle through some things God wasn't always clear on that when I remember instructing teenagers got actually wants to be involved in everything including picking your order for the day.
(13:39):
And I because I believe that 100% so so I disagree with you at that moment he does he did that that isn't true so much anymore and I don't know if that's just because I don't take the time to ask him or if it's got to do with more of a distraction
of the word I'm trying to think of several different irons on the fire at the same time where you and like you said you just go about your merry way and and some things just seem sort of normal I disagreed with one one of the guys that was in our life at that time was in the ministry that said God doesn't care what color car you pick you just want you to have a car whatever that's fine but I wanted more specific and I wanted it I I want to believe that God really did want to do that.
(14:28):
I did want to walk with me like in the garden which meant that everything in my life was important but what I'm trying to get out is there's there's passages where Paul really gets upset because you know they haven't perceived and then we of course with that dealt with an
I sense a fire and so any those some of those are they make a little more sense when you're looking at it from this angle and God was clearly with them in a in a fresh present way because the Holy Spirit had just been given but what's unclear is how much to is it up to us in a sense to discern the Holy Spirit's voice or is it up to just go knowing and in fact
(15:13):
that that he's with us that he is helping us make decisions as we go because what you see is people kids like are wrestling with what feel like fears and stressors that that really ought not to be the Bible says not for them not to worry about it but it's the normal things of trying to be an adult or trying to pay your own bills or trying to have a job you know we we know that we think that job is what you think is what you're trying to do is not to be a job.
(15:42):
That job is what gives us the money but we also know the Bible says he's giving us everything for life and godliness so it does have anything to do really with our own ability to make money so all of that is confusing when you're trying to sense what God is telling you to do especially when you need answers for whether it be a medical situation or a financial situation you need answers and you have no answers so where is the Holy Spirit in that how how are we to discern his leading in those moments.
(16:11):
In those moments of crisis a little bit of probably some doubts coming in some misunderstandings about God's provision and when he's promised my thoughts are first that you got to in those moments you've got to draw and more to him and increase.
You know your your faith your prayer I don't know why you're not commenting.
(16:33):
I'm listening to you and I'm and I'm there times where you get you get what I'm saying I do actually and what I'm what I'm thinking is I think that the answer to your question is kind of a little bit of yes both and in the sense that okay to your to your thing earlier God cares what color clothes you car you have or whatever.
No well I want to say this I think another way to look at that is God cares intimately about the details of your life but let's not lose sight of the fact that God is concerned about the details of your life through his eyes not yours.
(17:08):
In other words you may need to know what color car to buy because you know I my thought when you were talking about that because it was similar period in our lives was I had the little red ride right we had our little red car a little
Ford and I didn't know for two years or a year and a half that I worked downtown in an intercity ministry that I was riding around in a gain color car and I was told by a couple of guys why in the world are you riding around cars going to risk is going to get
(17:31):
Vandalized but it was never Vandalized and so kind of got a reputation of that God was protecting us and the people in the community respected that about us I had no idea it was I was ignorant of that but apparently God wanted me to have that little red
because down the road which by the way is what one of them called my car was not my name for this is the pastures little red ride but the but the point was I think for me the lesson in that was God was showing me his protection even when I was ignorant of how I might have been at risk
(17:59):
and so he knew what needed to happen in that in that moment that story regardless of how I saw the situation and so while I think that that's because we can usually advise them to look backwards a little and you can see God's work there but you didn't know that necessarily at the time
No and I wanted to conversations I had this morning with the gentleman was it on that very thing I said now that he's retired from the gentleman and he said I don't know that I could see God working I could see some he said he could see the larger principles of what he was ambitious for what he wanted to see happen the things he wanted to take on
(18:33):
but the anguish in those moments and not wondering how they're going to work out when somebody's back stabbing him on the job or and these kinds of things just had him over over on his knees before the Lord and now looking back on it he sees how God shaped that that's what I meant when I said earlier that sometimes we just can't know until some time has been put in until we've been alive for a little bit every young adult
(18:58):
It's almost like there's a series where like you talked about alone sing alone in college no incombrances you've got the things that you're doing and the celebrations that are happening and God's moving and everything seems to be and I can say I had a similar college experience in that regard man it was like everything was so crystal clear I knew what was happening next and then life and other aspects things and so suddenly the water gets a little bit mudier but what I did and what you did was we we leaned more into our relationship with God
(19:26):
and so well the thing that I wanted to say about that was God seeing through his eyes what our needs are we can't always see that clearly but he always does and so even in the midst of our struggles he knows what we need in that moment whether we think it's we think we think we know what we need it every time but Lord if you'll just give me enough money to make rent what God doesn't want you to make rent
(19:51):
what God doesn't want to provide my needs according to his riches and glory well I didn't say that I said what if God doesn't want you to make rent why would God not want you to make rent well maybe there's something he needs you to act on and you're not responding maybe there's something that he wants you to learn about trusting him up in the moment
I don't know the answers to the questions I know that sometimes God leaves us in the lurch there's some greater purpose
that's another piece is how can you discern which parts of it are your own selfishness your own short-sightedness versus his leadership like you're saying that you either can't see clearly or are disrupted by your own versions of things or your interpretations of things
(20:28):
and that is that is exactly what I had said a while ago you you have to lean further into him seek him more be more on your knees I mean the kids that I advise well I am praying I am do whatever yeah but apparently you haven't gotten an answer yet so pray more or you know seek more or something
well you and I have even experienced that recently with heroes a little bit difficult to know for about two years what the world we're supposed to do you know you're not getting older doesn't make it easier yeah not always seeking until like we have said in the past are one of our teachers that we used to like Henry Blackbees says go on what you knew until you hear something different
(21:13):
but I think what he was also saying is seek the Lord for the new the new information because until you know that you you shouldn't really you should be in the waiting period and the problem with the waiting period is most of us aren't good at that either we don't handle that correctly
waiting on the Lord be still in the name of God seems to be a very hard thing to follow up because God says be still I mean think about it you know put a two year old in front of a in front of a cookie and say now don't touch the cookie until I tell you to touch the cookie it's okay for about 32 and a half seconds and then he's like how long are you going to make me wait before I touch the cookie you know and so that made that's a crude illustration but nonetheless from God's point of view if he says wait on me and he doesn't put a bracket on it
(21:58):
we like clear cookie in front of you yeah I mean and and waiting as you mentioned earlier you know we said that means we continue what doesn't change is we continue to minister wherever we are in the waiting for us in the in the time here I I wasn't in a position that was clear I was like well I can see places that I I can make a difference
okay while I'm here and so I tried to act on that so that's another piece of it the problem with it usually is if we're really struggling we are so focused on our own whatever it is our own frustration our own worry our own fears rather than trying to yeah rather than trying to when it comes to like early married
(22:35):
would rather than trying to encourage the other person to believe in God to trust him and maybe even let's pray about it some more let's let's keep it gets it gets difficult because one person is doubting well the other person usually ends up in the doubt rather than pulling that person toward faith
and the problem with that is someone has to draw near to God someone has to be the strength to to to listen so that so that like I'm thinking of old testament characters again so you don't go down a path of true disobedience because you've gotten so whatever it is so self focused or so worried or so overwhelmed with fear or not willing to wait that you go ahead and you add
(23:23):
and now you've messed something up well we know God can get care of that as well the problem is most time you brought on yourself more burdens and more worry and more you know more of the negative things that he wanted you to if you did just waited but how do you encourage people God is at work he is going to come through for you
(23:44):
he is absolutely for your good I was sending ours this morning I was sending some some of our kids do to honor me 31 I think it's a 32 it's kind of a prayer and in fact it's called the song of Moses
(24:05):
but it's it's things like you've acted corruptly toward him and you've not you've been devious and crooked but is this how you repay the Lord you foolish and senseless people isn't he your father and creator didn't he make and sustain you remember days of old consider what he's done in the past
(24:26):
that was verse six and seven but the first part talks about his greatness and the rock and how his work is perfect and his ways are entirely just and he's faithful and he's righteous and true in other words to build the people of love
look at this I mean I don't mean interrupt you but listen to what you what you're talking about pay attention heavens and I will speak listeners to the words from my mouth
(24:49):
that my teaching fall like rain and my words that'll like to like general rain on new grass and showers on tender plants for I will proclaim the Lord's name declare the greatness of our God the rock his work is perfect and all his ways are just a faithful God without bias he is righteous and true so right Moses is setting up a contrast between how Israel treated God versus who he is and I and that goes to my point earlier we what if like I said what it's worse than what if God doesn't want you to not pay the rent
(25:19):
what if he rest you and throws you into German prison during World War II and you have to you know court him booms family situation and Frank's family situation what if life ends up badly does God lose do you lose your trust in favor in God because it says here he's great declare the greatness of the Lord the rock his work is perfect his ways are just a faithful God he's faithful to you even though you got thrown in prison and unjustly way you have to answer the question of what if your life is a wreck the way you think it should be
(25:49):
but God decides to take you through something very difficult some greater purpose but that I still believe the Holy Spirit with us will escort us through that difficult thing yes we know that
difficulties come in life and we have to be ready for them but he's also promised that we could trust him right so absolutely so praying that it's not those but if we're in the middle of those kind of situations goodness gracious hopefully we'll know that he's allowed it there's something that's going to come from it that we can
(26:19):
learn I don't know yeah that's goodness yeah the difference I'm just trying to say we also have to live he's promised to be our life he's promised to provide everything we need so if we need to pay a bill how do we even trust him for that moment I'm not going
to even something as simple like that I get it verse 39 says see now that I alone am he there is no God but me I bring death and I give life I wound and I heal
(26:44):
yeah no one can rest you rescue anyone from my hand and I guess that's kind of in a negative way but I will I will he continues to say my power he will vindicate his people he will have
compassion on his servants that's up in verse 36 when he sees that their strength is gone and no one is left to
say the question is that where are your gods where is everybody else you've trusted him but I'm trying to say is how do we discern that we are
(27:11):
trusting in him versus trusting in everything else around us which is what he's most hurt by it's it's most difficult you know it seems like for the Israelites to recover from the times that they've turned towards something else and trusted it yeah even if so in the middle of really difficulty I you hear great stories about how God has given them great strength that they didn't expect
(27:36):
but the times that are just normal life the things that we really do just my stomach hurts today or I've got this bill I need to pay that feel very small and insignificant and yet you got to have some answers right those are the things I'm kind of more more talking about but they're all I agree
through the same we have to deal with them the same so here's the question I think our a question man I be the question what is the question
(28:03):
what does it mean for God to answer and bless you I think for me is if because we're looking at here in God saying well some I'll bless while bless I'll curse I'll
bring favor on some and I won't bring favor on others I'll choose to elevate one or another does that mean I shouldn't and this goes back to you know I think one of the things we
(28:31):
are going to that we're not in a third world country we're in a first world country so we tend to interpret blessings through material gain and I mean material gain including we think we think we should be healthy we think we should do well in in every aspect of our work life and our family life and we should have no troubles or difficulties
that's blessings mean we're on top of that versus underneath it or whatever yeah and so well so we tend to especially currently because where our country is at as a third world as a first world country
(29:00):
our country is almost a third world country now as a first world country is you know our trouble is our we can't find a phone charger you know and we're like God does it love me because I can't find a phone charger or you know our our batteries wear out quicker on my watch than they used to whatever
but at the end of the day we look at collotions and we see that God is the source of all things that he is the center of all things and and what is it he is the substance that's what I was looking for he's the substance of all things
(29:27):
we don't crave the substance of just the pure relationship with God when Adam and Eve walked in the garden with God what they had in the garden all the plants and the animals that was an ancillary thing
what got what they really had was the presence of God and the life that came with being in the presence of God
that's the only thing that's lost they get thrown out of the garden yeah but that wasn't because the garden we can't grow things and have nice gardens now it's because the of the life the tree of life
(29:57):
the throughout out of the presence so they couldn't access the kingdom anymore the relationship was what was destroyed and I know we say that a lot but what we should
be able to learn for in life whether we're having the best of times or the worst of times whether it's this momentary thing that's little whether it's the color of our car or of our clothes or those old things is the presence of God
(30:18):
right so that in the middle I'm terrible at that I want to be real honest I mean if I'm going to be honest about it I'm upset because I can't pay the rent more than I'm upset or whatever
I'm not that I don't know the present and what happens when you're worried you're not in the presence of God right I was going to say so that in the middle of whatever the situation is
he should be our peace because he's present because he's with us because he's for us not because everything is going the way we want it to or expect it to or think it ought to be if or when he's blessing us
(30:55):
yeah definitely I mean those are the truths it's just how to know how to teach those things and then we start with it ourselves yes and then still trusting God that he is the provider so he literally does have charge of how much money you're bringing home more how you know what the particular
money because he's he's yeah because he said he would do that that what is who he is so anyway but but the scriptural reference points for those are people who have experienced him in those times and called him the Lord my provider or the Lord my
(31:36):
sister or because when you are in the middle of that and my experience would be like the desert misery that so many different angles when I struggled living there and and the different things that enemy shot at me afterward I can look back and realize the different things
ups and downs but he was my sustainer that this is the problem though I guess so how do you hand that to someone else so he will be your sustainer or your provider is why most senior older adults say to younger children you will come through this if you all but trust and obey hang in there because you can't and current during the time in the desert you leaned into Jesus and it was difficult for you but now you look back and you say he was my sustainer
(32:25):
and so you can't know that until you're on the other side of it you know you you may have a moment or a glimpse of it through the process is that he is there and when we are holding tight to him in the German prison as you say well even you know that's a good example the court him boom I think we reference this maybe a little while back but one of the things that her and Betsy would talk about is how God had given them that one Bible they were able to have Bible studies in that horrible horrible
(32:54):
horrible situation and I guess it was a book and anyway the one of the things I noticed was the guards weren't coming in and taking away their Bible the one Bible they had and ultimately the most horrible thing about that situation was
license and fleas and they realized the guards were not coming in there because they knew about that so they praised the Lord for the license and the fleas because God allowed them to hold on to his presence through that scripture that one Bible that they had and share it with others because of those horrible conditions the guards wouldn't take it away from them
(33:36):
so if in the midst of these light and momentary issues we can find his presence then we'll be able to reflect something like that how God in the midst of difficulty showed us
himself when we can see it that way we tend to fall short of the so here's another this is not really another observation it's kind of a build out on it we we talk about the the
(34:01):
things that matter and and and I'm talking about we should be yearning for Jesus not for the ancillary things ever since we lost the garden we've asked God to bless us in a broken world and to give us the treasures of a broken world and God is saying why would you want the broken
treasures when you can have me and that's the sin that's what happened in the garden God said you have me
(34:26):
how would you want anything else and we're still begging for treasures now sure but we have to know there's some things that are reflections of I think that's what the
heart part is we still have we live in a family and a in a marriage and a home we have life to live but just like the woman with two might
(34:50):
be happy even if we have two mites to give away more so than if we have what we think we're supposed to have a
keep saying two mites and we have termites to give away that corrupt and corrode and destroy I I think that the verse for me that continues to resonate as we talk about this is
she God made us a lot of promises and we tended like I said take those promises and apply them in this life and in this world but here's the promise that Jesus made in this
(35:16):
life you will have sorrow you will have many troubles but be take heart because I will take care of all of those troubles one of the time when they come up and make sure
that they're all taken care of and you will get the rent paid and you will have no problems and the baby will come easy and the and the air conditioners going to work all the time and all of the
the bills are going to get paid all that no that's not what he says he says I've overcome the world he tells us to figure out that's where our
(35:42):
responsibility to rise up and to take the our understanding of the scripture and the wisdom and the knowledge that God has given us to try and navigate the world that we're in because we were supposed to be interacting with this world we just weren't supposed to be interacting with this world in a sinful state and so we have to wrestle with that that's the reality of where we are yeah and we approach the world with what we know Jesus knows it all so he's the one that
(36:10):
should be able to give us peace in the middle of what we don't know right we can't see or we're not sure we can find the answer so therefore the goal and the aspiration of our lives should be what the pursuit of the one who knows the pursuit of wisdom the fear of the
Lord is the beginning of knowledge the root of wisdom and we can't have that unless we chase after him so back to the original thing why do you want all these little things that are broken when you can have me and I will show you how to deal with the broken things
(36:39):
because that's what God promises us and and all we can do is older Christians I mean it's beautiful but we talked about this this morning in in our studies in our Bible in my morning men's Bible study and one of the things I I shared with them is when you read the scriptures and you see promises you have to look at the whole of scripture and you have to look at the context of scripture Israel was in slavery for 400 years you know did God bless Israel the way you told Abraham he would doesn't seem like it when you're slave in Egypt for generation after generation after
(37:09):
generation after generation but again that situation feels like they turned away from him so it kept prolonging what was supposed to be the promise what if you look at it was normal there's a sending its Joseph which led to their salvation they were prospering in and all it says is that the Pharaoh's forgot it doesn't say that they were responsible for their own slavery the
(37:30):
Pharaoh's forgot the gift of the Joseph got and they wound up in slavery for 400 years so how do you interpret God's faithfulness in the midst of that you can't look back on it and see it Joseph can look back on how his brothers abused him and see it but it has to be on the other side of the
whole of the house in the house we know he's promised to be with them to be their God to save them in the midst but also they have invited somewhat some of his judgment because of the things that in their past have have created walls between them and their God so we see that lived out in these kind of larger things anyway
(38:09):
just feels like and sometimes that's what we bring on to ourselves when we just exactly what I was saying we turn away from him don't when we don't trust him when we're not waiting and willing to let him be our true source and only source rather than the world's ways and its protocols and its next movements and its trends as a word but there's always a reward in seeking him and waiting on him
(38:36):
and I think the thing that I was getting ready to say a second ago was when you look at the scripture and it doesn't make sense to you because it seems to say something you want it to say
you have to be willing to look at the whole of scripture and ask the question maybe I think it says this but it can't really be saying this because there's more here and you have to be willing to dive into the whole of the stories and get around we talk about the different ways to hear God's voice the scripture absolutely
(39:02):
the scriptures on its face if you've never read them before you'll get something from it not saying the Holy Spirit can't use something and illuminate some things to it
the Bible says that through the word through hearing of the word is built faith and that's what you'll have you'll continue to be encouraged to trust
because even in this passage is that don't make sense God will build in your heart faith in him just like that passage in Deuteronomy
(39:27):
that he is the God who you can trust whether or not you understand everything that is just for the scriptures
and then you go then the church comes and the church comes along and the church helps to shape and give that you put godly wise people around you to help you walk through those things
and then the Holy Spirit becomes clearer to you able to learn how to discern the Holy Spirit's voice
and because God all of those there's more to it but the point of the matter is is what we've talked about today is you need...
(39:54):
I want to just encourage people it's about finding yourselves standing in the presence of God not having all of these answers to your temporal needs because they're going to always be something there
the temporal needs God will take care of those things and the way he chooses to do so and he may answer it exactly the way you want him to but if he doesn't you have to ask the question
I know it doesn't mean God doesn't love me it means something he needs me to grow and learn and that's the lesson here
(40:20):
and that's what I'm trying to get at here and I guess we can wrap up on that point if it's nothing else to say about that
but there's a lot more to say
there's a lot more to say about that
yeah we have a life outside of this podcast we have to go tend to anyway thanks so much for listening and we look forward to I would say see you again next time but hearing you again another time
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Okay.
(00:01):
[music]
Well, it's time again for us to try this crazy conversation.
Oh, that's right.
Ask mom.
And dad.
Because usually we'll call it, even though I don't know if our kids even listen right now,
(00:22):
but maybe they will eventually.
Our kids have never listened, not since the day they were born.
That's not true.
Oh, okay.
That was a full-on joke.
However, there's a couple that actually do this.
One had been requested.
[applause]
No, that's crickets.
He doesn't have his headphones on.
So he says, "Was this the button?
Or was this the button?"
No, you're good.
You did the clap.
[laughter]
(00:42):
How's that?
Blaster?
Yeah, way too many people in the room.
So only time you can hear anything that's happening in the room.
Okay.
That should be interesting.
Anyway, good to have you tuning in with us for whatever reason drew you to find out what
(01:06):
we were going to talk about today.
I'm not even exactly sure myself.
What are we talking about today?
I don't know.
There's a lot of things we can talk about.
What's been going on in your life these days?
Well, we had a kind of busy week.
We have a lot of people coming and going.
Several times.
We have a lot of people coming going, several coming to try to get jobs here, which is good for Tennessee because there are jobs here although our little small community, I'm not quite sure.
(01:29):
Looking for jobs are coming to Tennessee, but avoid our campground.
And the problem is finding a place to live is the stressor, because I'm not seeing that available too much anyway.
It's good. I mean, you've actually, it's kind of nice because we've been home actually for a week now without anyone leaving town going into any threatening to.
(01:50):
Although next week we'll probably have people coming in because of holidays.
But you know, it's one of those things where it's not been the end of the world.
Well, on church on Sunday we had some cool visitors from the British television show.
A very low, low intrusive small camera setup that was not at all low intrusive or small camera setup.
Well, it wasn't.
Over the top, but and we had four warnings. So that's okay.
(02:13):
Yeah.
It was kind of neat though.
I did see, I did see some photos on Instagram from our family that's over and over there hugging and having a good time and seeing all the sites.
I'm really jealous. I think they got the better into the deal.
So yeah, I'm sure they did.
Anyway, as we look at some things to talk about, we have a whole lot of things.
(02:34):
I think last time I just kind of peeled off of some questions that we ran into because I had come to gone through some old podcast and just kind of used the power of AI and said,
"Oh, there's some questions we left open." And then it hit me with so many questions that we don't answer.
And I feel like suddenly I felt insignificant because I didn't answer all the right questions.
And so I'm just going to kind of, you know, we just took the list and we're just kind of going through it and seeing some things.
(02:55):
Some of the subject matter that we've talked about last week, last week we talked about hearing God's voice versus just,
I like to say, is it God or is it gas? Is it just, you know, I'm feeling this presence of God, which sounds really rude when you put it when I think about it or say it out loud.
But, you know, determining the difference between God's voice and just your own head space when you're brain.
(03:17):
But, you know, that's still an ongoing, there will always be an ongoing discussion, especially we have 20-something kids who are just newly married and trying to figure out
one person might hear from God one way and one another way. And then there's struggles, physical or financial or different types.
(03:42):
Without being specific, there's always something going on that the enemy wants to rile up and challenge you with.
And God wants to lead you through. And I just think that that topic could be exhausted even more.
Yeah, I don't think it's ever an end to the question of how do you hear God's voice. I think we struggle with it because, well, I mean, you think about it.
(04:07):
I mean, there was a silent period or God, I mean, God used to speak to us through prophets and through, and through, and the Old Testament, right?
There was a, it was very rare because an Adam and Eve, when they walked with God, I think this was schools. Adam and Eve walked with God in the garden every single day.
And because of what Jesus has done for us, we have that same access. It's still though we have to work through where Adam and Eve didn't have a barrier of sin until they did.
(04:34):
We have that, we still have the fact that we live in a world that's surrounded and engulfed with the corruption that's come with the fallen world and have to battle our own corruption.
So even though God's still because of the Holy Spirit walks with us daily, we still have to battle our own, our own self.
Well, and what I think is unique is the way the Holy Spirit is approached in the full Bible and the Old Testament and New Testament.
(04:59):
It's, it's kind of confusing because I mean, you said they walked with God in the garden. And yet we think of God as not really having a physical form, except when he came to earth as Jesus.
So did Jesus actually physically take walks with them in the garden or was it that they knew God's presence in a, in a real way so they knew they were with him, but not necessarily physically tangible.
(05:27):
You know, those kinds of things are confusing.
Yeah. And then when we know that he spoke, it seems as if he appeared like the Oaks of memory with Abraham kind of almost makes you think all three, you know, fathers are in the Holy Spirit standing there and under the Oaks.
I don't know. That's a confusing passage as well as and but they spoke directly to some of the prophets. Abraham heard God's voice, but then he also had a vision in the night of God and the fire pots.
(05:57):
And from what the description almost sounds like they were invisibly floating, you know, supernatural, crazy kind of, but they were sort of a story almost anything.
Pieces of the sacrifice. All those kind of things make you make you kind of sense that it's never really been, it's never really changed.
Jesus came to earth so his physical presence was with was with us for that short period of time, those 33 years or so. And he was trying to bring an understanding of God's presence with us.
(06:31):
And then when he sent the Holy Spirit to live in us, we were, I do believe we were supposed to understand it in a new way.
But there's things like, you know, that the Holy Spirit visited Saul and David and the Bible says the spirit.
And then afterward when Paul was finding direction, like right before the, when he was visiting the vision by the Macedonian group church who was asking him to come,
(07:06):
it says that the spirit of Jesus hindered them from going to a particular, whatever they had said, we'll see where is it at.
It's in chapter 16, I think of Acts.
They had been hindered from going to a place. I can't find that mention.
(07:29):
But then he had seen the vision of the Macedonian man asking them to come. So anyway, there it is, it's verse 6. He went through the region of Virgin Galatians were prevented by the Holy Spirit and then one other version of the Bible says the spirit of Jesus from speaking the message in Asia.
So I'm just saying to me, there's the thread throughout the scriptures that it's not a lot different.
(07:53):
We don't hear God's voice in a lot different of a way. We just, so we have to be sensitive to what he's doing, where he's at, where he's at work, and where he's leading us.
And the Holy Spirit with us ought to make us attuned to that. The Bible says he'll remind us of the truths that Jesus spoke while he was on earth as well as, you know, lead us.
(08:16):
Yeah, I'm listening to what you're saying. I'm looking at the questions and how to build up on it because I'm thinking of myself. One of the things that is so we talked about the different here. We don't hear God's voice differently.
We still hear God's voice through that process. There is a sense of the Holy Spirit speaking to us. And through the, through the word.
(08:39):
So from what you're saying, as far as the scripture consistently throughout the way in which we understand and experience God.
What I was looking at and thinking about in that regard is how the different ways in which we see throughout church history in which we've been taught how to understand and hear the voice of God.
(09:02):
So what's the scripture is the primary way we do it now I understand from what you were talking about is there's a consistency throughout scripture as to how God reveals himself to us.
So what David here from the scriptures, what what scriptures did he have and also like, like Saul, I mean the Holy Spirit came to him. So what scriptures would he have heard? I mean, I don't, I don't get the impression they had a whole lot of scripture spoke through.
(09:23):
Absolutely they did. So Saul and them they had they had the pinotooke they had they had the beginnings of what was happening and understanding the word. And they had the prophets and they had an Abraham did not Abraham had God's voice directly at that moment.
So when what do you think about the passage at the oaks of mommy when he felt like God was present, you know, physically present with him was that the same as like in the garden or.
(09:49):
I don't know if it's the same as in the garden. I was thinking about that when you said it first time I was trying to process how does God.
How would God so some would say that Jesus was a pre incarnate presence in the garden and and I don't and I don't think that's a stretch. I think that's a reasonable thing. God Jesus has always been there. He's the same yesterday.
So did Jesus could when God walked with him in the garden was it Jesus is the same things true about Abraham at the oaks the anytime we see a physical expression of God in scripture.
(10:20):
The assumption for Christians is that that's a pre incarnate aspect of God.
So so is that the way God talked to them most all the time when we say God when we heard God said.
I mean it was most time a prophet that would speak something but but that's not the same as when we are we the same accountability I think what I'm trying to get at is what accountability to hearing the Holy Spirit's voice do we have now.
(10:44):
Did they have him present and.
Allowedly they got they really got punished for not doing what they were told to do and it must be that God had made it very clear to them whereas these days the Holy Spirit with us it's still sort of vague it's not.
So obviously sometimes they I mean it should be according to the scripture it feels like it should be there.
(11:12):
So how do you instruct someone who is young immature maybe trying their best to obey God and they have tink of amends and they have the scriptural principles that we've taught them or you know if they've grown up in a family that's in how do you teach them how to hear and know what God has spoken to them that that's what this wrestling matches that's what I'm trying to.
(11:38):
Understand what there's some things tiny you're not going to be able to teach them when they're young because they don't have the time in to hear now I understand even at our age we struggle to hear things but I think we struggle to hear God's voice sometimes at a richer level because sometimes time and I feel like right the opposite I feel like I heard his voice so clear sometimes it.
(12:01):
You know there were like college times where you're able to be focused able to be a little bit more really walking in the spirit obedient kind of more and then like Paul said we get married we have other things to focus on so you don't hear quite as clearly so I get the experience of it if that's what you're saying.
I think I think age and experience can cloud your ability to hear just as much as it can clarify your ability here it depends on where you lean and how you lean on on those kinds of things I think you know I'm jealous sometimes I think and when I mean jealous and maybe the right way.
(12:35):
You know I wish there's some who I see that as they've gotten older they hear it seems to me as an outsider looking at them and maybe coveting what they seem to have is that it seems like they hear a lot more clearly than I do at the stage with game.
I may not be true they may just come off that way to me but who.
Just 20 somethings I mean I'm just talking when I look at anybody I when I'm when I'm looking at how I hear versus how someone is I'm going to say I'm looking at someone who's where I'm at the journey in other words how long they've been walking with the Lord because what I'm saying is.
(13:10):
The couple things going on your clear callings when you were younger we're not calling is about a decision that you maybe they were I'm sorry I'm going to speak to that we're not necessarily callings about a clear decision that needed to be made about this little thing in the moment there are some stories about that right but by and large on the day today and some of the struggles you just had to struggle through some things God wasn't always clear on that when I remember instructing teenagers got actually wants to be involved in everything including picking your order for the day.
(13:39):
And I because I believe that 100% so so I disagree with you at that moment he does he did that that isn't true so much anymore and I don't know if that's just because I don't take the time to ask him or if it's got to do with more of a distraction
of the word I'm trying to think of several different irons on the fire at the same time where you and like you said you just go about your merry way and and some things just seem sort of normal I disagreed with one one of the guys that was in our life at that time was in the ministry that said God doesn't care what color car you pick you just want you to have a car whatever that's fine but I wanted more specific and I wanted it I I want to believe that God really did want to do that.
(14:28):
I did want to walk with me like in the garden which meant that everything in my life was important but what I'm trying to get out is there's there's passages where Paul really gets upset because you know they haven't perceived and then we of course with that dealt with an
I sense a fire and so any those some of those are they make a little more sense when you're looking at it from this angle and God was clearly with them in a in a fresh present way because the Holy Spirit had just been given but what's unclear is how much to is it up to us in a sense to discern the Holy Spirit's voice or is it up to just go knowing and in fact
(15:13):
that that he's with us that he is helping us make decisions as we go because what you see is people kids like are wrestling with what feel like fears and stressors that that really ought not to be the Bible says not for them not to worry about it but it's the normal things of trying to be an adult or trying to pay your own bills or trying to have a job you know we we know that we think that job is what you think is what you're trying to do is not to be a job.
(15:42):
That job is what gives us the money but we also know the Bible says he's giving us everything for life and godliness so it does have anything to do really with our own ability to make money so all of that is confusing when you're trying to sense what God is telling you to do especially when you need answers for whether it be a medical situation or a financial situation you need answers and you have no answers so where is the Holy Spirit in that how how are we to discern his leading in those moments.
(16:11):
In those moments of crisis a little bit of probably some doubts coming in some misunderstandings about God's provision and when he's promised my thoughts are first that you got to in those moments you've got to draw and more to him and increase.
You know your your faith your prayer I don't know why you're not commenting.
(16:33):
I'm listening to you and I'm and I'm there times where you get you get what I'm saying I do actually and what I'm what I'm thinking is I think that the answer to your question is kind of a little bit of yes both and in the sense that okay to your to your thing earlier God cares what color clothes you car you have or whatever.
No well I want to say this I think another way to look at that is God cares intimately about the details of your life but let's not lose sight of the fact that God is concerned about the details of your life through his eyes not yours.
(17:08):
In other words you may need to know what color car to buy because you know I my thought when you were talking about that because it was similar period in our lives was I had the little red ride right we had our little red car a little
Ford and I didn't know for two years or a year and a half that I worked downtown in an intercity ministry that I was riding around in a gain color car and I was told by a couple of guys why in the world are you riding around cars going to risk is going to get
(17:31):
Vandalized but it was never Vandalized and so kind of got a reputation of that God was protecting us and the people in the community respected that about us I had no idea it was I was ignorant of that but apparently God wanted me to have that little red
because down the road which by the way is what one of them called my car was not my name for this is the pastures little red ride but the but the point was I think for me the lesson in that was God was showing me his protection even when I was ignorant of how I might have been at risk
(17:59):
and so he knew what needed to happen in that in that moment that story regardless of how I saw the situation and so while I think that that's because we can usually advise them to look backwards a little and you can see God's work there but you didn't know that necessarily at the time
No and I wanted to conversations I had this morning with the gentleman was it on that very thing I said now that he's retired from the gentleman and he said I don't know that I could see God working I could see some he said he could see the larger principles of what he was ambitious for what he wanted to see happen the things he wanted to take on
(18:33):
but the anguish in those moments and not wondering how they're going to work out when somebody's back stabbing him on the job or and these kinds of things just had him over over on his knees before the Lord and now looking back on it he sees how God shaped that that's what I meant when I said earlier that sometimes we just can't know until some time has been put in until we've been alive for a little bit every young adult
(18:58):
It's almost like there's a series where like you talked about alone sing alone in college no incombrances you've got the things that you're doing and the celebrations that are happening and God's moving and everything seems to be and I can say I had a similar college experience in that regard man it was like everything was so crystal clear I knew what was happening next and then life and other aspects things and so suddenly the water gets a little bit mudier but what I did and what you did was we we leaned more into our relationship with God
(19:26):
and so well the thing that I wanted to say about that was God seeing through his eyes what our needs are we can't always see that clearly but he always does and so even in the midst of our struggles he knows what we need in that moment whether we think it's we think we think we know what we need it every time but Lord if you'll just give me enough money to make rent what God doesn't want you to make rent
(19:51):
what God doesn't want to provide my needs according to his riches and glory well I didn't say that I said what if God doesn't want you to make rent why would God not want you to make rent well maybe there's something he needs you to act on and you're not responding maybe there's something that he wants you to learn about trusting him up in the moment
I don't know the answers to the questions I know that sometimes God leaves us in the lurch there's some greater purpose
that's another piece is how can you discern which parts of it are your own selfishness your own short-sightedness versus his leadership like you're saying that you either can't see clearly or are disrupted by your own versions of things or your interpretations of things
(20:28):
and that is that is exactly what I had said a while ago you you have to lean further into him seek him more be more on your knees I mean the kids that I advise well I am praying I am do whatever yeah but apparently you haven't gotten an answer yet so pray more or you know seek more or something
well you and I have even experienced that recently with heroes a little bit difficult to know for about two years what the world we're supposed to do you know you're not getting older doesn't make it easier yeah not always seeking until like we have said in the past are one of our teachers that we used to like Henry Blackbees says go on what you knew until you hear something different
(21:13):
but I think what he was also saying is seek the Lord for the new the new information because until you know that you you shouldn't really you should be in the waiting period and the problem with the waiting period is most of us aren't good at that either we don't handle that correctly
waiting on the Lord be still in the name of God seems to be a very hard thing to follow up because God says be still I mean think about it you know put a two year old in front of a in front of a cookie and say now don't touch the cookie until I tell you to touch the cookie it's okay for about 32 and a half seconds and then he's like how long are you going to make me wait before I touch the cookie you know and so that made that's a crude illustration but nonetheless from God's point of view if he says wait on me and he doesn't put a bracket on it
(21:58):
we like clear cookie in front of you yeah I mean and and waiting as you mentioned earlier you know we said that means we continue what doesn't change is we continue to minister wherever we are in the waiting for us in the in the time here I I wasn't in a position that was clear I was like well I can see places that I I can make a difference
okay while I'm here and so I tried to act on that so that's another piece of it the problem with it usually is if we're really struggling we are so focused on our own whatever it is our own frustration our own worry our own fears rather than trying to yeah rather than trying to when it comes to like early married
(22:35):
would rather than trying to encourage the other person to believe in God to trust him and maybe even let's pray about it some more let's let's keep it gets it gets difficult because one person is doubting well the other person usually ends up in the doubt rather than pulling that person toward faith
and the problem with that is someone has to draw near to God someone has to be the strength to to to listen so that so that like I'm thinking of old testament characters again so you don't go down a path of true disobedience because you've gotten so whatever it is so self focused or so worried or so overwhelmed with fear or not willing to wait that you go ahead and you add
(23:23):
and now you've messed something up well we know God can get care of that as well the problem is most time you brought on yourself more burdens and more worry and more you know more of the negative things that he wanted you to if you did just waited but how do you encourage people God is at work he is going to come through for you
(23:44):
he is absolutely for your good I was sending ours this morning I was sending some some of our kids do to honor me 31 I think it's a 32 it's kind of a prayer and in fact it's called the song of Moses
(24:05):
but it's it's things like you've acted corruptly toward him and you've not you've been devious and crooked but is this how you repay the Lord you foolish and senseless people isn't he your father and creator didn't he make and sustain you remember days of old consider what he's done in the past
(24:26):
that was verse six and seven but the first part talks about his greatness and the rock and how his work is perfect and his ways are entirely just and he's faithful and he's righteous and true in other words to build the people of love
look at this I mean I don't mean interrupt you but listen to what you what you're talking about pay attention heavens and I will speak listeners to the words from my mouth
(24:49):
that my teaching fall like rain and my words that'll like to like general rain on new grass and showers on tender plants for I will proclaim the Lord's name declare the greatness of our God the rock his work is perfect and all his ways are just a faithful God without bias he is righteous and true so right Moses is setting up a contrast between how Israel treated God versus who he is and I and that goes to my point earlier we what if like I said what it's worse than what if God doesn't want you to not pay the rent
(25:19):
what if he rest you and throws you into German prison during World War II and you have to you know court him booms family situation and Frank's family situation what if life ends up badly does God lose do you lose your trust in favor in God because it says here he's great declare the greatness of the Lord the rock his work is perfect his ways are just a faithful God he's faithful to you even though you got thrown in prison and unjustly way you have to answer the question of what if your life is a wreck the way you think it should be
(25:49):
but God decides to take you through something very difficult some greater purpose but that I still believe the Holy Spirit with us will escort us through that difficult thing yes we know that
difficulties come in life and we have to be ready for them but he's also promised that we could trust him right so absolutely so praying that it's not those but if we're in the middle of those kind of situations goodness gracious hopefully we'll know that he's allowed it there's something that's going to come from it that we can
(26:19):
learn I don't know yeah that's goodness yeah the difference I'm just trying to say we also have to live he's promised to be our life he's promised to provide everything we need so if we need to pay a bill how do we even trust him for that moment I'm not going
to even something as simple like that I get it verse 39 says see now that I alone am he there is no God but me I bring death and I give life I wound and I heal
(26:44):
yeah no one can rest you rescue anyone from my hand and I guess that's kind of in a negative way but I will I will he continues to say my power he will vindicate his people he will have
compassion on his servants that's up in verse 36 when he sees that their strength is gone and no one is left to
say the question is that where are your gods where is everybody else you've trusted him but I'm trying to say is how do we discern that we are
(27:11):
trusting in him versus trusting in everything else around us which is what he's most hurt by it's it's most difficult you know it seems like for the Israelites to recover from the times that they've turned towards something else and trusted it yeah even if so in the middle of really difficulty I you hear great stories about how God has given them great strength that they didn't expect
(27:36):
but the times that are just normal life the things that we really do just my stomach hurts today or I've got this bill I need to pay that feel very small and insignificant and yet you got to have some answers right those are the things I'm kind of more more talking about but they're all I agree
through the same we have to deal with them the same so here's the question I think our a question man I be the question what is the question
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what does it mean for God to answer and bless you I think for me is if because we're looking at here in God saying well some I'll bless while bless I'll curse I'll
bring favor on some and I won't bring favor on others I'll choose to elevate one or another does that mean I shouldn't and this goes back to you know I think one of the things we
(28:31):
are going to that we're not in a third world country we're in a first world country so we tend to interpret blessings through material gain and I mean material gain including we think we think we should be healthy we think we should do well in in every aspect of our work life and our family life and we should have no troubles or difficulties
that's blessings mean we're on top of that versus underneath it or whatever yeah and so well so we tend to especially currently because where our country is at as a third world as a first world country
(29:00):
our country is almost a third world country now as a first world country is you know our trouble is our we can't find a phone charger you know and we're like God does it love me because I can't find a phone charger or you know our our batteries wear out quicker on my watch than they used to whatever
but at the end of the day we look at collotions and we see that God is the source of all things that he is the center of all things and and what is it he is the substance that's what I was looking for he's the substance of all things
(29:27):
we don't crave the substance of just the pure relationship with God when Adam and Eve walked in the garden with God what they had in the garden all the plants and the animals that was an ancillary thing
what got what they really had was the presence of God and the life that came with being in the presence of God
that's the only thing that's lost they get thrown out of the garden yeah but that wasn't because the garden we can't grow things and have nice gardens now it's because the of the life the tree of life
(29:57):
the throughout out of the presence so they couldn't access the kingdom anymore the relationship was what was destroyed and I know we say that a lot but what we should
be able to learn for in life whether we're having the best of times or the worst of times whether it's this momentary thing that's little whether it's the color of our car or of our clothes or those old things is the presence of God
(30:18):
right so that in the middle I'm terrible at that I want to be real honest I mean if I'm going to be honest about it I'm upset because I can't pay the rent more than I'm upset or whatever
I'm not that I don't know the present and what happens when you're worried you're not in the presence of God right I was going to say so that in the middle of whatever the situation is
he should be our peace because he's present because he's with us because he's for us not because everything is going the way we want it to or expect it to or think it ought to be if or when he's blessing us
(30:55):
yeah definitely I mean those are the truths it's just how to know how to teach those things and then we start with it ourselves yes and then still trusting God that he is the provider so he literally does have charge of how much money you're bringing home more how you know what the particular
money because he's he's yeah because he said he would do that that what is who he is so anyway but but the scriptural reference points for those are people who have experienced him in those times and called him the Lord my provider or the Lord my
(31:36):
sister or because when you are in the middle of that and my experience would be like the desert misery that so many different angles when I struggled living there and and the different things that enemy shot at me afterward I can look back and realize the different things
ups and downs but he was my sustainer that this is the problem though I guess so how do you hand that to someone else so he will be your sustainer or your provider is why most senior older adults say to younger children you will come through this if you all but trust and obey hang in there because you can't and current during the time in the desert you leaned into Jesus and it was difficult for you but now you look back and you say he was my sustainer
(32:25):
and so you can't know that until you're on the other side of it you know you you may have a moment or a glimpse of it through the process is that he is there and when we are holding tight to him in the German prison as you say well even you know that's a good example the court him boom I think we reference this maybe a little while back but one of the things that her and Betsy would talk about is how God had given them that one Bible they were able to have Bible studies in that horrible horrible
(32:54):
horrible situation and I guess it was a book and anyway the one of the things I noticed was the guards weren't coming in and taking away their Bible the one Bible they had and ultimately the most horrible thing about that situation was
license and fleas and they realized the guards were not coming in there because they knew about that so they praised the Lord for the license and the fleas because God allowed them to hold on to his presence through that scripture that one Bible that they had and share it with others because of those horrible conditions the guards wouldn't take it away from them
(33:36):
so if in the midst of these light and momentary issues we can find his presence then we'll be able to reflect something like that how God in the midst of difficulty showed us
himself when we can see it that way we tend to fall short of the so here's another this is not really another observation it's kind of a build out on it we we talk about the the
(34:01):
things that matter and and and I'm talking about we should be yearning for Jesus not for the ancillary things ever since we lost the garden we've asked God to bless us in a broken world and to give us the treasures of a broken world and God is saying why would you want the broken
treasures when you can have me and that's the sin that's what happened in the garden God said you have me
(34:26):
how would you want anything else and we're still begging for treasures now sure but we have to know there's some things that are reflections of I think that's what the
heart part is we still have we live in a family and a in a marriage and a home we have life to live but just like the woman with two might
(34:50):
be happy even if we have two mites to give away more so than if we have what we think we're supposed to have a
keep saying two mites and we have termites to give away that corrupt and corrode and destroy I I think that the verse for me that continues to resonate as we talk about this is
she God made us a lot of promises and we tended like I said take those promises and apply them in this life and in this world but here's the promise that Jesus made in this
(35:16):
life you will have sorrow you will have many troubles but be take heart because I will take care of all of those troubles one of the time when they come up and make sure
that they're all taken care of and you will get the rent paid and you will have no problems and the baby will come easy and the and the air conditioners going to work all the time and all of the
the bills are going to get paid all that no that's not what he says he says I've overcome the world he tells us to figure out that's where our
(35:42):
responsibility to rise up and to take the our understanding of the scripture and the wisdom and the knowledge that God has given us to try and navigate the world that we're in because we were supposed to be interacting with this world we just weren't supposed to be interacting with this world in a sinful state and so we have to wrestle with that that's the reality of where we are yeah and we approach the world with what we know Jesus knows it all so he's the one that
(36:10):
should be able to give us peace in the middle of what we don't know right we can't see or we're not sure we can find the answer so therefore the goal and the aspiration of our lives should be what the pursuit of the one who knows the pursuit of wisdom the fear of the
Lord is the beginning of knowledge the root of wisdom and we can't have that unless we chase after him so back to the original thing why do you want all these little things that are broken when you can have me and I will show you how to deal with the broken things
(36:39):
because that's what God promises us and and all we can do is older Christians I mean it's beautiful but we talked about this this morning in in our studies in our Bible in my morning men's Bible study and one of the things I I shared with them is when you read the scriptures and you see promises you have to look at the whole of scripture and you have to look at the context of scripture Israel was in slavery for 400 years you know did God bless Israel the way you told Abraham he would doesn't seem like it when you're slave in Egypt for generation after generation after
(37:09):
generation after generation but again that situation feels like they turned away from him so it kept prolonging what was supposed to be the promise what if you look at it was normal there's a sending its Joseph which led to their salvation they were prospering in and all it says is that the Pharaoh's forgot it doesn't say that they were responsible for their own slavery the
(37:30):
Pharaoh's forgot the gift of the Joseph got and they wound up in slavery for 400 years so how do you interpret God's faithfulness in the midst of that you can't look back on it and see it Joseph can look back on how his brothers abused him and see it but it has to be on the other side of the
whole of the house in the house we know he's promised to be with them to be their God to save them in the midst but also they have invited somewhat some of his judgment because of the things that in their past have have created walls between them and their God so we see that lived out in these kind of larger things anyway
(38:09):
just feels like and sometimes that's what we bring on to ourselves when we just exactly what I was saying we turn away from him don't when we don't trust him when we're not waiting and willing to let him be our true source and only source rather than the world's ways and its protocols and its next movements and its trends as a word but there's always a reward in seeking him and waiting on him
(38:36):
and I think the thing that I was getting ready to say a second ago was when you look at the scripture and it doesn't make sense to you because it seems to say something you want it to say
you have to be willing to look at the whole of scripture and ask the question maybe I think it says this but it can't really be saying this because there's more here and you have to be willing to dive into the whole of the stories and get around we talk about the different ways to hear God's voice the scripture absolutely
(39:02):
the scriptures on its face if you've never read them before you'll get something from it not saying the Holy Spirit can't use something and illuminate some things to it
the Bible says that through the word through hearing of the word is built faith and that's what you'll have you'll continue to be encouraged to trust
because even in this passage is that don't make sense God will build in your heart faith in him just like that passage in Deuteronomy
(39:27):
that he is the God who you can trust whether or not you understand everything that is just for the scriptures
and then you go then the church comes and the church comes along and the church helps to shape and give that you put godly wise people around you to help you walk through those things
and then the Holy Spirit becomes clearer to you able to learn how to discern the Holy Spirit's voice
and because God all of those there's more to it but the point of the matter is is what we've talked about today is you need...
(39:54):
I want to just encourage people it's about finding yourselves standing in the presence of God not having all of these answers to your temporal needs because they're going to always be something there
the temporal needs God will take care of those things and the way he chooses to do so and he may answer it exactly the way you want him to but if he doesn't you have to ask the question
I know it doesn't mean God doesn't love me it means something he needs me to grow and learn and that's the lesson here
(40:20):
and that's what I'm trying to get at here and I guess we can wrap up on that point if it's nothing else to say about that
but there's a lot more to say
there's a lot more to say about that
yeah we have a life outside of this podcast we have to go tend to anyway thanks so much for listening and we look forward to I would say see you again next time but hearing you again another time
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