June 18, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode of Ask Mom & Dad, we dive into a deep (and surprisingly fun) discussion about money, savings, tithing, and trust. Should Christians build up savings accounts, or does that reveal a lack of faith? How do we balance being wise stewards with living generously? What does the Bible really say about tithing and offerings?Drawing from Proverbs 21, Psalm 112, and the teachings of Jesus, we explore the heart behind giving, the dangers of hoarding or spending carelessly, and how true wealth is measured. This isn’t about formulas—it’s about relationship. Join us as we wrestle with questions that touch every family, every church, and every paycheck.
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Episode Transcript
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[MUSIC]
(00:09):
Hey, it's time for another episode of Ask.
>> Mom.
>> And dad, I'm still dad and she still.
>> Mom.
>> Wondering if I'm going to continue to throw little traps like that,
I don't know.
And again, just to make sure we're both paying attention.
Hey, what can I say?
>> I prefer, yeah.
>> I like it that way.
It's a lot of fun.
Well, we're so glad you guys are here with us today.
[APPLAUSE]
>> Letting us know that you appreciate our presence.
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Yeah, all, I mean, we got chairs set up and everything.
It's kind of cool to have people with us.
And so, you know, and they're here to laugh and to have fun with us
and all the fun things that we'll do together.
So, I mean, I can laugh.
[LAUGH]
>> That's bad.
>> Does that sound like we have more people here than we really do?
>> Yeah, we really can laugh.
>> Yeah, I like buttons.
(00:50):
Buttons are fun.
I have this one too.
Hey Ezra.
[LAUGH]
Okay, so there we go.
That one's still in here.
It's interesting, but let's get back to what we're here to talk about today.
We're so glad you joined us today for another episode.
We are, we were talking about some things the other day.
And I wanted to jump in on some of that.
My son is leading a Bible study online and he's leading off of a Bible study that
(01:13):
that I taught last year in a Proverbs chapter 21 is where,
and he's asked me to guess toast for him.
>> Right, just all of Proverbs.
>> All of Proverbs.
They're working through them all.
And it's basically just a series of questions and that kind of thing.
And I mean, where you just kind of interact with them in a conversation with a Bible study format.
(01:34):
And he's doing it in a Discord format with his friends just doing it online.
So I'm kind of, I'm glad for him reaching out to me and
asking me to be a guest teacher for that.
And I teach a Bible study here in Eagleville once a week and Wednesday mornings.
We had an interesting conversation today as we're working our way through Genesis.
But as of this airing, we found up talking you and me and our daughter went up having a conversation the other day about just the way money is saved up for a rainy day as where we got stuck on.
(02:06):
And I wound up.
>> Well, we talked a little bit about the tithe and how sometimes the crossover of those.
So yeah.
>> Just the handling.
>> The chart started.
>> Yeah, it did.
I think you're right.
I think the tithe did get started.
I think she was talking about something she'd read in Deuteronomy 14 about whether catching up the tithe.
There's something like that and what God had shown her in that.
(02:27):
And it was interesting.
And then it led to a conversation about those kinds of questions of savings or how do we live our lives.
And it was, it's an interesting question because I think there is two sides to that conversation.
Or let me not really two sides.
There's the attitude.
We wind up I think making an argument happen that's not an argument.
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And I think that's a lot of the struggles that we have in the Bible when it comes to that anyway is how to resolve those things.
And so, why don't you articulate what I'm talking about?
So I don't have to sit here and explain it.
Just what are the two different arguments about money savings and all that jazz.
That's where we wound up.
We can get back to the tithe and maybe later on.
But I kind of want to talk about just the handling of money as Christians.
(03:12):
>> Yeah.
Okay, so to me there's a million places I could go with that.
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking me.
But I did write a little paper one time, like just an article sort of thing on how I see the church handling money.
And sometimes how it becomes a, you know, we need to have this much saved up in order to be good stew or it's quote unquote.
(03:33):
The Bible doesn't, to me, is not quite as clear on the saving up and the having just in case as it is to be using it for God's kingdom.
So it sounds more in the scripture like we are to be good.
Stewards in a different word wording than what we think of as like managing and we think of good managers as the rifty and I don't know, you know, cautious, whatever I guess.
(04:03):
The scripture to me make, make it sound more like we should funnel it into God's word and or into God's work.
And if we, especially as the church itself, a lot of people get caught up in these different arguments over, you know, whether we're going to buy carpet or we're going to hire someone to help the pastor out or, you know, some of these different arguments that end up really breaking up and being divisive.
(04:29):
And all I'm trying to say is it seems as if even those churches, there tends to be a large like savings account and people are.
Protective of those funds, whereas from the more places you read in scripture, it's, it's more wise to invest, you know, the parable of talent is a good example of God gives you this much invested in his kingdom and and don't just let it lay to waste.
(04:56):
So anyway, I don't know if that's exactly what you're talking about because that's, that was more of an angle on how I think churches sometimes function.
As individual families, it's difficult because we have things like I was reading the scripture that said, a kind man or a good man saves up for his grandchildren.
I was like, really? Oh, no.
(05:17):
That was in, that was a Psalm 68, I think, somewhere in there.
And I was like, that feels, that feels weird because normally there's also proverbs that say, or not necessarily proverbs, but.
Place in the Bible where it says, you know, who will you give it to? Why, why would you save it up rather than use it?
(05:39):
So anyway, I think our conversation was about first the tie, which we know from the Old Testament, a little bit, you see it a little bit different in the Old Testament than you do in the new.
Because the first fruits of what God has given us are his and, and that is more of a testimony or a statement of trusting him because it's all his from what we've taught and what we believe.
(06:01):
But so, so the tie doesn't something to be a law or a legalistic about, but it is something kind of a privilege of us to off the top of whatever we've brought in, give it right back to God and let him bring the increase, which is, you know, he promises to do that.
But then there's places that you can go with, you know, then what's the offering? Well, that's an extra. That's when God calls you to give something that's maybe beyond your means or, you know, not something that's normal to your every.
(06:30):
And you're monthly, whatever it might be commitments.
So, yeah, so.
Our discussion was just about how, how to handle that, right? What is, what's the best approach?
Well, we're talking about a mentality or an attitude towards money in general, right? And how are we supposed to see it?
So the things that you just covered were savings, you know, what is it in the churches, world view? What is it in the personal world view?
(06:57):
And you gave a positive example of that, probably it's 1322, I think is the reference that you were looking for, which was a, I mean, saves up for his children, leaves an inheritance for it.
The one I was talking about was for a great reason. A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, but the sinners wealth is laid up for the righteous.
That's what you're looking for.
Well, and we were talking about how, most people think it's wise to put money aside just in case. And we've always believed that God's going to provide daily.
(07:23):
You know, the Lord's prayer is that this goes to the attitude, right? So the question of just in case.
And I think that's where we wound up having that conversation kind of came to a head in our conversation. The tithing thing is, well, it's all, we all tend to make these things about what God's not trying to make them about.
When it comes to money or anything in life or everything is rooted in centered around God being the center of what's been broken in this world, which is our relationship with God.
(07:53):
So does God own everything? Yes. Does God have all the money in the world? Yes. Does God have what you need when you need it? Yes.
The focus is on a relationship that we have with God and we trust him. So saving up the question that I wrote down when you said saving up for rainy day churches take that mentality.
I guess you can take that on a personal level first because churches are nothing more than the extrapolation of personal relationships, right?
(08:16):
So you've got, especially if you get into a church that is making its decisions in a corporate body on a regular basis rather than with the Nell or lead group.
So that tendency to save up just because out of a root of fear fear that provision won't be there. That's what I mean by that.
Where do we stand in our relationship with God versus saving up because we're being good managers of what God has given us? You need a pencil or something?
(08:42):
Sticky note. Yeah, because I was even going to say because you could you could lump insurance in there and that almost that same thought pattern.
You know, people in our country, even it's almost illegal or it is illegal for ownership of the vehicle anyway to not have insurance that provides for those just in case situations.
(09:05):
So most people feel like that's a mandate and absolute and sure it's definitely wise in some ways to see.
But in our culture, we're also advised to kind of always think ahead on that and to consider how, yeah, like you just said in a fearful way is what I think.
(09:30):
Yeah, I agree. When it comes to insurance, that's a whole another category, right? Because, kind of, I mean, it's insurance is there because not everyone lives under a God rule.
Right. So not everyone's trying to build their things that it's there to kind of provide us a safeguard for lack of a better word for for those who the righteous versus the unrighteous or the wicked people who are wise versus the unwise and things.
(09:53):
And then of course we have other issues that regard relate to insurance and those kinds of things, which I wasn't really prepared to think about insurance on a deep level.
We'd be discovering that together.
But by and large, the shortest version that I can come up with the insurance thing is to say, you know, we live in a world that's broken and we were talking, I mean, this morning, you know, but we've told been told to be wise and as serpents and general as doves in the sense that we need to be wise about how we interact with a lost world.
(10:17):
And when you're dealing with insurance, you're dealing with interacting with the lost world.
So that's that again, you're dealing with things that are out of your control and insurance to a degree shouldn't be rooted in fear, but I think there's some wisdom to having some cushion there because we also deal with the fact that, you know,
costs and prices for things a lot of things just can't be saved up for in this world because of the way the world has inflated things now if it was if there was a world in which insurance didn't exist and people it probably would drive prices down in a lot of areas.
(10:45):
But that's that's something it's almost a difficult conversation to have based upon where it is because legitimately like you're saying greed and different forms of
whatever insecurities or whatever have driven that mentality, but also our cultural economy and such.
It is a little bit out of our hands some of that, however, like we're saying to advise people on money situations or wisdom within their family. That's what you're starting with right.
(11:18):
Yeah, that's what let's start with small there because I think that the one of the one of the verses that came to me was because it seems like there's when I was getting at with you earlier was there's this mentality of we should never save anything that that's almost what you hear from some kinds of
I've heard it from people you know we should always have trust that God's going to provide for us and we shouldn't have a savings and then the other side of that argument is we should save for everything just in case of a rainy day.
(11:44):
That's how it plays out interesting. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say we shouldn't save at all.
But I mean I literally don't remember anyone is there like preachers there are people who think that way.
I mean now I would border on the more you in our society these days the word hoard or protect or build up because of fear to me could be definitely not not godly with right.
(12:17):
And I think that's what I'm getting at.
But I would never say you shouldn't save anything.
Well I would say that what I'm trying to say is there's people who live on an extreme faith kind of side of things you know God's going to I'm making air quotes.
I just have a yeah I'm running across anyone well and I'm thinking we're fighting mostly people that believe you should save up for rainy day and that's godly wisdom right.
(12:39):
It depends on the church camp here in there's different kinds of church camps out there.
Well and without trying to break that down let's just take those extremes as an example or as a case study.
The point of the matter is both of those extremes one to save everything up for rainy day the other one is to just go crazy one is a symbol of gluttony and the other one is a symbol of fear or greed.
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So you have one that's holding up everything for their own sake and the other one is just spending because they just want to feel an experience the pleasures of this world or whatever and they're not worried God will take care of me.
It's going to be fine that's their mentality is like I'll just do whatever and the verse that came to mind or that I looked up the other it was looking through the other day was in Proverbs 21 that's why I brought up Proverbs 21 to begin with which has precious treasure and oil or the dwelling of a wise person but a full consumes them that verse expresses both extremes.
(13:28):
Well it doesn't express expresses one extreme and not the other expresses not the extreme that says that we hold hard everything but the extreme that if you're consuming everything in other words if you're your whole world view is in order to just live life out and spend the money and not be wise with those things you wind up acting in a like as the better word I come up with is gluttonous you're just consuming you're just doing whatever you want without any fear or concern for the consequences.
(13:57):
That's not a problem for the consequences of that but someone who's wise about their resources will wind up accumulating not for a rainy day but accumulating such that they're able to be generous when called upon to be generous which goes to your question about offerings and not just the time that the offerings.
I think the problem is so many people well for one thing when you're looking at your own story or your own financial situations you've got different interpretations of the ways that you live some some that we know would give everything away and they and therefore they wouldn't have much but doesn't mean that they weren't also willing and ready to give whatever the next thing would be and may not and may have trouble paying their own bills we knew of a story of a lady and was going to do that.
(14:45):
I think the story of a lady and was constant who said to come home and her dad had given away all their furniture or whatever and he always gave away his last $20 and they could barely pay their bills.
Some of that is feels right and then on the other hand Bible says it's wisdom take care of your own family so there's some you know some angles on that but I think individually we have a we can it's not really our job to make those judgment calls it is right to look at the scriptures like you're saying this kind of scripture that feels like you're saying.
(15:14):
That's what the scripture that feels like it's saying that a wise person will likely have these things to draw from.
But precious treasure there's a one of my favorite scriptures that talk to women anyway.
(15:37):
And then the other one that's probably 14 months as every wise woman builds her house but a foolish one tears it down there's other scriptures that talk about the treasures that don't have anything to do basically with money or even provisions really but it's the treasures of relationship like you said or of of a godly piece and.
And this is what I'm getting at right because you bring up the convert the comfort there's some people who take in vows of poverty they don't have anything and they don't desire to have anything and they choose to live among the poor and be poor themselves that's again they're they're leaning on God for their right relationship there in that regard that's not that's not a that's not the full consuming their treasure that's someone who's the person who's giving away the furniture they're giving they still are giving from their dwelling they're giving from the whatever they consider they have they're willing to give that away and I think that's the attitude that we should have as believers.
(16:26):
And so when it comes to the issue of tithing for example when you talk about the 10% the attitude you mentioned earlier is it all belongs to God 10% is there is a cursor or a reminder that of that so that we don't lose sight of it but the reality is God owns it all so Christians should be living not just at the 10% but well beyond it we should be living in a situation to where we are able to the precious treasure of the world and the world is going to be a little bit more than that.
(16:55):
The precious treasure and oil are in the dwelling of a wise person where money is accumulating or resources or wealth of whatever that wealth be it's not all cash when we clear because it says here oil and treasure treasures are broad term as well that someone who's wise with the way they manage their lives will have margin or stuff on the outside that they can give that they can give themselves away freely because they understand the relationship that they have with God is a God who has an unending treasure to give to them so they give freely knowing that God takes care of them.
(17:24):
Some people do that at great risk sometimes but the point of the matter is the focus isn't about whether I'm saving up to take care of I'm not focused on me I'm focused on God and trusting God to instruct me how to live my life day by day sometimes that may mean giving it all away other times I mean letting it come.
Well that's what I'm trying to say I don't think it's then our job to really make that decision for other people or to even make that assessment because we don't know their full situation we don't really know how to even so we can give them wisdom from the scriptures God can direct them but some people end up without a job for a while and they don't it doesn't make any sense and they are trying their best to honor God but their finances are to honor him period in their lives to work faithfully at the church and whatever and things just don't make sense.
(18:10):
So then you read these scriptures and there's guilt incurred and that that's not right either because God doesn't really want he can fix us of sin but there's not a lot of time just sitting with nothing.
Yeah.
Everything was taken from him and God wasn't judging him that's what we learned the whole time it was literally just a test it was a express God was expressing that his faithful children are faithful.
(18:33):
Yeah and there's so many places in the scripture where it talks about the poor being so much more wealthy than the rich who doesn't even understand their wealth or has not a fear of God and then there's this scripture someone 12 says.
Hallelujah happy is the man who fears the Lord taking great delight in his commands his descendants will be powerful in the land the generation of the upright will be blessed wealth and riches are in his house and his righteousness and does wherever.
(19:00):
Really does that mean that anyone who doesn't have wealth and riches is not one who fears the Lord you know we can't look at it that way because that's not what it's trying to say and wealth and riches again we just discussed doesn't always mean a bunch of money laying around right.
It means that they understand the wealth that has been laid been given to them freely just even the love of God itself is a wealth a treasure and if we die right now we know that that's more valuable than having a bunch of money laying around because eternity is in the balance that way but but.
(19:37):
And then down on a little bit further than that same song good will come to a man who lends generously and conducts his business fairly he'll never be shaken the right just man will be remembered but we know of ones who still end up in sort of financial whoa even though that's exactly that would completely describe their lives so I don't know that there's a formula I guess and it is definitely a daily walk and a relationship and like you said.
(20:03):
The tricky part of that is that each one of us go through different things and each each family experiencing different degrees of whatever it is God wants to challenge us with so that we can learn to trust him I think pretty much the whole of life on this earth is to learn how to trust him completely sure how to not need to see and yet believe like Jesus said right and yet that it's the hardest when you see your family going through struggles especially financially when it comes to.
(20:32):
And eventually financially when it feels very shallow kind of like we know that the the wealth of you know there's so many really evil wealthy people and that cannot possibly be the the reward of a godly life and yet at the same time God for some reason picks out some to have money and some to not and whatever we don't we don't totally get that and then Jesus told us that you know the it's difficult for a rich man to get into.
(21:01):
So there's something about having an attitude that's not of whatever the rich person's.
Right counter that against blessed or the poor in spirit for they shall see you know the poverty is is a pop in the rich man and Lazarus and those kind of examples of how sometimes poverty just literally having to live
you know meal to meal or whatever and trusting in God is still more valuable so that's it's it's odd when we read these proverbs or these Psalms and how God tells a truth but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the way we're seeing it you know black and white whatever.
(21:40):
Yeah and what we're trying what I when it comes to proverbs and the Psalms and it comes to the wisdom books in general ecclesiastes what we need to understand and is that these are not it'll always be the case the proverbs feels like it contradicts itself at times because sometimes it states two things that are true that seem to be opposite right you know don't answer a full according to his wrath don't answer a full according to his wrath I mean according to his folly what what what the what you know I don't know what's going on there so but there's no but the point of the matter is.
(22:09):
But does when you look at the rest of the context with the point of the matter is is if you just take them there what I'm going to say is these are wisdom that is generally true in the world they are not dependent upon your relationship with God it's just wisdom it's observations about the way humanity works and the way the world works that's what you have in the wisdom books and when you go what we're talking about what like even this business about precious treasure and oil that's the reality is if someone just consumes everything they're not going to have anything but if they're
(22:39):
care if they're wise about how they live their lives and they're going to wind up accumulating by default well the one I read was about hearing the Lord though that that was that's not a wisdom book that this is a right it's a song so it is a celebration of what is true and right which is that the fear of the Lord will really does determine our understanding I believe of wealth and riches well in relationships yeah in relationships don't go away because resources do window or resources are plentiful right sometimes
(23:08):
plentiful resources will bring around and riches are clarified by our fear of God because relationships tend to be focused on and like you're saying yeah well understand the fear of the Lord that's a respect putting God in His proper putting God in His proper place
prioritizing who God is and how He is center to your world is what allows us to make judgments that are wise when it comes to interacting with the world around us
(23:34):
and so that relationship is our priority so when the Bible tells us to love the Lord your God with all your heart so mine and strength that means put everything you are into understanding and connecting fearing the Lord is the beginning of wisdom right
and having that relationship and then how you interact with the world loving your neighbor is yourself is the natural outflow of what you understand love to be because of what you have in the loving relationship you have with God they're not exclusive but they is that right it's not exclusive
(23:59):
they're not one or the other they're not mutually exclusive they depend upon one another but first is God in all things it has to begin there and so money resources savings not savings if you're saving up for a rainy day you're not putting God first you're saving up because you're worried about whether or not you'll have money when time comes should you have saving sure if it's nice to have it when it's there when a rainy day comes but sometimes rainy days come and the rain just keeps coming and the rain just keeps coming and the range of Job had everything and he lost it all in a day
(24:29):
yeah so that doesn't mean God loved Job any last doesn't mean and so the point that we're trying to make here is we should live in relationship and wisely in reflection of that relationship in relationship to that relationship that's not there's a lot of relationships going on
we used to talk about well being conduits you were you had a sermon one time on the Holy Spirit and how we we would plug into the source so that we can be a resource for others kind of like a extension quarter whatever I was thinking about obedience is what's more important and the Bible is clear about that too that when the Holy Spirit wants us to use those funds that we have because he has given them to us that's again what we're forgetting to say
(25:14):
is that he still gives us everything we have so if he's given a portion for us to set aside well then we have to be reminding remembering that that might be even not for our own good for someone else or for a situation or for something that he has set aside and we may not know it yet so I I think that again being obedient means that if God has taught us how to be wise
(25:44):
and put a little bit of a savings side then that's fine but the problem is remembering that it's still not yours if it belongs to him all of our resources everything we have along to him so as we go trust him as we go make decisions according to how he leads us right and the needs that we come across like in Acts 2 where they had everything in common and they were all their stuff belong to each other that was that was pretty radical of them and pretty you know what we might call even a so
(26:14):
socialist mindset now but it was but it was a perfect way to handle everyone's needs problem is we don't perfectly handle all those
well yeah it was a generous mindset yeah and you know socialism is in modern parlance social socialism is when we press upon someone to share
(26:35):
right trying to make a difference there's a yeah there's a big difference in that right and what we see in Acts is that because of this actually is a really good example of loving the
Lord your God right because they loved and understood what God had given them in Jesus that was new to them but it's so rattled their cages that they were like we don't need anything else we want to make sure everyone has what they need so they sold everything they had and shared it to
(26:57):
what everyone as they had need it was a willing lane it was you know socialism can never do what generosity can do can never it can never bless and when something
was blown your mind such as resurrected man who you know made that promise to you yeah life really all the sudden becomes quite in perspective it makes a whole lot more sense why do we have this
(27:24):
well it's actually so that we can share it not so that we can worry about our eternity which is another theme in the Bible almost sounds like people think like the Egyptians kind of that you can take it with you that you can
know stock it up for your pyramid or whatever your tomb burial but we know that's not true we know that we've uncovered these tombs and that stuff is still there did not go with them and they did not have the wealth that they thought in what we would believe into the afterlife you know we believe that the wealth that we need it will be there it will be Jesus
(27:56):
himself it will be all we need so so the treasures of this earth are exactly for this earth that's kind of the example so I just I love that in X to because that's what they were experiencing they knew now that eternity itself death itself had been destroyed right now none of this matters none of this is a big deal let's just and and God obviously if he can
(28:20):
shatter death and you know control the elements to that degree just like they saw Jesus walking on the water then obviously he can also provide for us whatever we need I think what's hard on this earth though is to watch people trust him cry out to him and then see them really struggle still to fight him
(28:42):
and meet most all the time you still see someone coming through someone being the conduit that God has sent to provide for them yeah I mean including us right now we're able to help your brother a little bit who has helped us in the past God God has
switched our yes which our positions enough that it is it's how it is it's the way he is letting us kind of be thankful back and you know that's just how
(29:10):
that's how this earth I think makes more sense in God's economy it's just not always it's not always spelled out exactly as we feel like it should be or make sense like you know the peace of
land we'd like to find for all these 50 people that seem to want to come here and live it does seem that there seems to be a desire for people to have a
commune situation in a place where we live in their car we literally we dance as a lot in order to get through our second bedroom the tent yeah the
(29:34):
we are nomads we are truly Israelites and so yes I am just interestingly enough just pointing back to the proverbs that I quote earlier in 2021 21 through 23 are proverbs that point to what moderation and strength so
(29:56):
so in proverbs where I was reading earlier in verse 20 it actually is a little cluster of proverbs 20 there's several clusters here but what I think is interesting about this because I already mentioned
proverbs 21 20 says precious treasure and oil are in the dwelling of a wise person but a fool consumes them so as I said it's contrasting one who practices moderation and first sight
(30:18):
one who swallows everything like a glutton so it's plenty but the other two here listen this the one who pursues righteousness and faithful love
will find life righteousness and honor so we talked about relationship and pursuing righteousness you don't pursue righteousness devoid of relationship there's no such thing as independent righteousness righteousness is related to how you interact
(30:39):
with the people around you how are you are you one who does justice who walks rightly right and so
and the proverbs 21 saying as you seek these virtues you find the desires of life become fulfilled you find life itself
you find that righteousness excuse me pursues righteousness and faithful love I'm sorry the love is the relationship part as well as the relationship right
(31:00):
will find life they'll not only find the righteousness they're looking for but they'll also find honor people will honor them
and then the next one says a wise person went up against the city of warriors and brought down its secure fortress so we talk about the fact that
someone who is uh is that right what I wanted to you have 22 uh
the confidence that places uh the comment there's a commentary I'm looking at right now says the last Hebrew word translated as they trust the one who trust
(31:28):
is says that uh filler you know is the key pointing out the confidence placed in strength in numbers and contrasting it with the wise person's trust in God
someone who's going after it with numbers who um can bring down a fortress if they trust God does that make sense so
person went up against the city of warriors large numbers one person goes up a city of numbers what large numbers
(31:51):
but because of their relationship with God they can conquer anything and that's kind of a theme of what we've been talking about
in the sense that if God is a sinner of things and everything else is going to take care of
itself because God can tear down the what the warriors if you make your relationship but pursuing righteousness we know
righteousness is found in Christ alone we can only find that so it goes back to that relationship someone who
pursues righteousness and faithful love who is the one who loves us faithfully greater love has no man than this the one who
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lays down his life for a friend Jesus Christ. Well yeah he also said seek first his kingdom and all of these things and it has just been
that chapter has been talking about him providing for the birds of the air and um Solomon was not a raid as you know one of
these flowers that kind of thing so seek you first his kingdom and all these things will be added all the things that you need all the
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things that are what you are uh encountering in this earth or whatever provided for so yeah that's what we've always
tried to live by or live understanding. And then the last thing in this passage that actually comes back around and kind of
is interesting because it says verse 23 the one who guards his mouth and tongue keeps himself out of trouble now the
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writer probably shifts and gets to arrogance and pride next so but I think it's interesting if we look at this about the
fact that being a moderation person someone who's who is in one who pursues love and relationship and the one who's
wise about how they engage with others they can tear down a city wall but it's saying a lot of it resides in how we
talk to one another how we don't or do say things how we handle our words because words are weapons. Wow yeah and so I just
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think that's very words are words are weapons or they're healing bombs and I just think it's interesting that that
that's the way that it's it's broken down and you know look at it these are just different examples of
moderation and strength and where was that last verse at? That's Proverbs 21 23 the one who
guards his mouth and tongue keeps himself out of trouble. Okay so anyway I I just found that fascinating and I
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just thought I would throw that in there because I think it it that like everything in scripture it's
I it's kind of all tied together you know what I'm saying yeah as usual going on down a little bit
further in that same chapter a slackers craving will kill him because his hands are fused to work
he's filled with craving all day but the righteous give and don't hold back so almost exactly what we're
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saying both could come to poverty if the righteous give and don't hold back that they're not going to have
much but the slacker says that he's not even going to fill the cravings of his heart or of his life like
we we know a righteous person who is poor still seems to believe in contentment they still seem to be
(34:28):
at peace in fact they'll talk about that you and I think that was one of the conversation pieces that
when we were talking uh two of our kids the other day we didn't have much and we never we knew we
wouldn't have much the ministry just doesn't pay that much not like a even if even the uh ones in our
field who are doctors of whatever dr. theology or you know have doctors after they even still don't
(34:53):
make much money that's just not a field you know I was thinking of a game of life and how you can
choose to be a actual doctor or a scientist whatever the decisions are roll of a dice when you
choose to follow Jesus a lot of times that we know of missionaries who give up everything you were
talking about in your sermon about how there aren't very many you know just uh independent Christians
(35:18):
who live by themselves but there's a few missionaries who give everything kind of went by themselves to
go try that was thinking of David Brainer and so like that who who give up their um possessions and
maybe even relationships to go but also end up giving up their health to go and be a messenger so
there's a value obviously beyond this world and that's what Christians live for and so the the
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welches wealth and the honor and the riches that are listed and these are usually referring to those
type of genuine wealth the things that make us fulfilled and satisfied and whole and so that is
the difference I do believe that's that Christians see money see possessions just so much differently
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are even even in the times where we might have gotten a decent tax return so for a few minutes we
had money in the bank or whatever we would go see relatives or we would end up you know having
um what I feel like we're we're moments that we're investment moments so it's it's always been
still the way you use money is different when you're a Christian because you tend to to see these
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earthly experiences and wealth as investments in people and in uh yeah eternity I guess
yeah I like to see that and slackers craving will kill him because his hand refused to work
yeah I know that's what that's the same yeah there's the filling with craving all day long with the
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righteous give and don't hold back that's what was going to say that's what leads into it so you've
got the slacker who's just it's the opposite of the glutton right they're just doing everything I know
and um and so yeah but but I like to but I think you said this but if you didn't don't just want to say
it to clarify that you can't out give God is is kind of where we're getting now with this is in the
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situation here the the the the righteous give and they don't hold back they're not afraid to that's
what you talked about just be willing to just go and and take the resources and invest it in people
invest it in in the relationships that matter and um but I like the idea that no matter what you do
you're given goes well sometimes and even sometimes we'll give beyond what we have to spare we'll do
whatever we need to do in order to sacrifice or not sacrifice to build those relationships we'll
(37:36):
sacrifice ourselves in the benefit of others again back to the bigger theme of what we're talking about
well those there's the last two verses of this chapter kind of sum it up no wisdom no understanding
and no counsel and I would add in there no riches we'll prevail against the Lord so all of this
if the if you see any of these as valuable it's going to be God that will pour those back
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towards you when you're trusting in him versus and the next one a horse is prepared for the day of
battle but victory comes from the Lord again you can have all the horses and chariot such as we see
in the Old Testament a lot of you know say for instance giddy and or whatever you might have
the biggest army the biggest whatever but it's only God that really gives the increase that gives
the victory that gives the true riches true treasure so no matter what monotarily might be in your
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bank account it's God who provides and once again so so we we have to see it that way we see that
that money sitting there or that money invested as his and it is to be used for his glory so
so it's just such a it's freeing to think that way if a christian will think that way
because it's still God gave it he can take it away he can take it away he can also replenish it
(38:53):
so anyway I was thinking about this verse too you just said it because the whole theme of this chapter
has been about wisdom in how we apply things moderation versus gluttony versus you know
relationship and I was thinking about Psalm 27 some trust in chariots and some in horses but we trust
in the name of the Lord our God that's not what this verse is saying though this verse is saying
a horse is prepared oh so okay so God brings the battle brings the victory and so it's it's
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this goes to the whole theme right so we can do what we need to do to be wise about how we manage our
money about how we manage our relationships about how we do but God's ultimately the glue that
holds it all together he's the one that everything's rooted in and we have to be mindful of that as
we walk through our lives to understand that it we're going to make decisions as they come and they
may and and one of the things we learned from the Old Testament characters the heroes of the Old
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Testament who are really not heroes at all their examples of of the mess of people that God that God
still pursues us yeah no matter how humanity just trips us up constantly but but why did you just say
that those aren't the same because I see them very similar they're not the same this way some trust
in horses right some trust in chariots but we trust in the name of the Lord versus this one saying
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this verse is saying so your horse maybe you're already and it may be even trained to the fullest
I'm even thinking of whatever it might be a race or a battle but it's God who gives the victory so
it's the same thing if you're trusting in that horse to bring you victory it's not going to happen
unless he God wants it no matter how much he's trained so isn't it the same principle it could be
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seen that way I read it I'm reading it differently though I'm saying that because I also see throughout
Proverbs where it says that planning is something that men do but God's still going to be the one
that orders our steps that's one of my favorite Proverbs and the reality is I mean even if I look at
cross references in my Bible Proverbs Psalm 27 is what comes up which is why I brought it up
in Proverbs 33 Psalm 33 17 the horse is a false hope for safety it provides no escape by its great
(40:51):
power you know I can go to 108 Psalms is full of it right full of these statements give us
who will bring me to the fortified city who will lead me to eat him Lord you have haven't rejected
us God you do not march out with our armies give us aid against the foe for human help is worthless
with God we will perform valiantly he will trample our foes and then you got let's see what I got
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here in Isaiah woe to those who go down to Egypt for help and who depend on horses they trust in
abundance of chariots and in large numbers of horsemen they do not look to the holy one of Israel and
they do not seek the Lord so the cross references that I have here would point to those verses being
in step with one another but when I read it because and to me because of the context I don't know
that I'm arguing with it I need to look at it closer but when I read it in context of this constant
(41:42):
sense of leaning on God versus someone who squanders it and it seems each each proverb plays one
against the other um yeah I mean that makes sense I'm wrong or but I but I do think that that
that we should yeah we should be prepared we should be prepared for life but we also need
understand that our preparation is trusting the Lord and understanding that our victory comes to the
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Lord not trusting in our own preparedness and I think that's what I'm driving at well what yeah exactly
but when you're looking at that verse before no wisdom no understanding no counsel will prevail
against the Lord but it also means it's not going to prevail if like in that next verse if you're
depending on it versus depending on him's he's still got to bring the victory so yeah I mean it's
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both and while I may be completely wrong in understanding this particular verse I think the point
still valid yeah we still need to make our horses ready for battle wrong at all it's but it's all the
same thing to me yeah I think it's the same thing too I just think it's it's funny that that's what
Bible studies all about right to have in conversations about what the word says and seeing how we can get
a better lens on who God is and how he impacts well and how yes and how yes and how it's alive and
(42:49):
sharper than any two-inch source or everyone that reads it's going to need a piece you know maybe
something different well it's going to be when we talk about it we are able to bring those things out
I looked over here on the other other page it's chapter 20 but it says the Lord's lamp
sheds light on a person's life searching the innermost parts so exactly what I just said and he
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brews it talks about the sword which is the word of God being the one that cuts and teaches us so no
matter what these pages say or these words say we know God is teaching us as we talk through these
principles amen so what did we learn about money we learned that money is not really what we're
focused on it's about the love of money is a real legal nevermind yeah but it's that you start
(43:37):
another worm again yeah I know love of money or love of Jesus if you love Jesus then money can
be used well that goes but you pointed that out now just we can close with this thought to it's
easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle then a rich man to the kingdom of God that's
because the more you acquire the easier it is to be enamored with it and just fall in love with it
because it is it is a resource again I I would say that's visible that feels like it's your saving
(44:03):
grace right we know that that's probably why Jesus even warned them that is not your savior don't
see it as it and once you do you you know you're farther from the kingdom because he was always
teaching about how to find the kingdom so instead seek first to him his kingdom and then the rest
of it will be added to you as God sees fit to provide it yeah Matthew 633 just keeps coming back to
(44:28):
the surface just like cream rise into the top well I think that's going to be about it for today I
thank you so much for your conversation guys we're so glad you guys joined us morning this evening
this afternoon wherever you are whatever time of day you're listening and we're going to sign
off ton you need other thoughts closing words other than goodbyes farewell a feedersing
all that kind of stuff hey well till next time guys just keep on
(44:52):
I keep on
I keep on
I keep on
Keep on
(45:22):
Keep on
I keep on
I keep on
I keep on
I keep on
I keep on
[Music]
[BLANK_AUDIO]
[MUSIC]
(00:09):
Hey, it's time for another episode of Ask.
>> Mom.
>> And dad, I'm still dad and she still.
>> Mom.
>> Wondering if I'm going to continue to throw little traps like that,
I don't know.
And again, just to make sure we're both paying attention.
Hey, what can I say?
>> I prefer, yeah.
>> I like it that way.
It's a lot of fun.
Well, we're so glad you guys are here with us today.
[APPLAUSE]
>> Letting us know that you appreciate our presence.
(00:30):
Yeah, all, I mean, we got chairs set up and everything.
It's kind of cool to have people with us.
And so, you know, and they're here to laugh and to have fun with us
and all the fun things that we'll do together.
So, I mean, I can laugh.
[LAUGH]
>> That's bad.
>> Does that sound like we have more people here than we really do?
>> Yeah, we really can laugh.
>> Yeah, I like buttons.
(00:50):
Buttons are fun.
I have this one too.
Hey Ezra.
[LAUGH]
Okay, so there we go.
That one's still in here.
It's interesting, but let's get back to what we're here to talk about today.
We're so glad you joined us today for another episode.
We are, we were talking about some things the other day.
And I wanted to jump in on some of that.
My son is leading a Bible study online and he's leading off of a Bible study that
(01:13):
that I taught last year in a Proverbs chapter 21 is where,
and he's asked me to guess toast for him.
>> Right, just all of Proverbs.
>> All of Proverbs.
They're working through them all.
And it's basically just a series of questions and that kind of thing.
And I mean, where you just kind of interact with them in a conversation with a Bible study format.
(01:34):
And he's doing it in a Discord format with his friends just doing it online.
So I'm kind of, I'm glad for him reaching out to me and
asking me to be a guest teacher for that.
And I teach a Bible study here in Eagleville once a week and Wednesday mornings.
We had an interesting conversation today as we're working our way through Genesis.
But as of this airing, we found up talking you and me and our daughter went up having a conversation the other day about just the way money is saved up for a rainy day as where we got stuck on.
(02:06):
And I wound up.
>> Well, we talked a little bit about the tithe and how sometimes the crossover of those.
So yeah.
>> Just the handling.
>> The chart started.
>> Yeah, it did.
I think you're right.
I think the tithe did get started.
I think she was talking about something she'd read in Deuteronomy 14 about whether catching up the tithe.
There's something like that and what God had shown her in that.
(02:27):
And it was interesting.
And then it led to a conversation about those kinds of questions of savings or how do we live our lives.
And it was, it's an interesting question because I think there is two sides to that conversation.
Or let me not really two sides.
There's the attitude.
We wind up I think making an argument happen that's not an argument.
(02:49):
And I think that's a lot of the struggles that we have in the Bible when it comes to that anyway is how to resolve those things.
And so, why don't you articulate what I'm talking about?
So I don't have to sit here and explain it.
Just what are the two different arguments about money savings and all that jazz.
That's where we wound up.
We can get back to the tithe and maybe later on.
But I kind of want to talk about just the handling of money as Christians.
(03:12):
>> Yeah.
Okay, so to me there's a million places I could go with that.
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking me.
But I did write a little paper one time, like just an article sort of thing on how I see the church handling money.
And sometimes how it becomes a, you know, we need to have this much saved up in order to be good stew or it's quote unquote.
(03:33):
The Bible doesn't, to me, is not quite as clear on the saving up and the having just in case as it is to be using it for God's kingdom.
So it sounds more in the scripture like we are to be good.
Stewards in a different word wording than what we think of as like managing and we think of good managers as the rifty and I don't know, you know, cautious, whatever I guess.
(04:03):
The scripture to me make, make it sound more like we should funnel it into God's word and or into God's work.
And if we, especially as the church itself, a lot of people get caught up in these different arguments over, you know, whether we're going to buy carpet or we're going to hire someone to help the pastor out or, you know, some of these different arguments that end up really breaking up and being divisive.
(04:29):
And all I'm trying to say is it seems as if even those churches, there tends to be a large like savings account and people are.
Protective of those funds, whereas from the more places you read in scripture, it's, it's more wise to invest, you know, the parable of talent is a good example of God gives you this much invested in his kingdom and and don't just let it lay to waste.
(04:56):
So anyway, I don't know if that's exactly what you're talking about because that's, that was more of an angle on how I think churches sometimes function.
As individual families, it's difficult because we have things like I was reading the scripture that said, a kind man or a good man saves up for his grandchildren.
I was like, really? Oh, no.
(05:17):
That was in, that was a Psalm 68, I think, somewhere in there.
And I was like, that feels, that feels weird because normally there's also proverbs that say, or not necessarily proverbs, but.
Place in the Bible where it says, you know, who will you give it to? Why, why would you save it up rather than use it?
(05:39):
So anyway, I think our conversation was about first the tie, which we know from the Old Testament, a little bit, you see it a little bit different in the Old Testament than you do in the new.
Because the first fruits of what God has given us are his and, and that is more of a testimony or a statement of trusting him because it's all his from what we've taught and what we believe.
(06:01):
But so, so the tie doesn't something to be a law or a legalistic about, but it is something kind of a privilege of us to off the top of whatever we've brought in, give it right back to God and let him bring the increase, which is, you know, he promises to do that.
But then there's places that you can go with, you know, then what's the offering? Well, that's an extra. That's when God calls you to give something that's maybe beyond your means or, you know, not something that's normal to your every.
(06:30):
And you're monthly, whatever it might be commitments.
So, yeah, so.
Our discussion was just about how, how to handle that, right? What is, what's the best approach?
Well, we're talking about a mentality or an attitude towards money in general, right? And how are we supposed to see it?
So the things that you just covered were savings, you know, what is it in the churches, world view? What is it in the personal world view?
(06:57):
And you gave a positive example of that, probably it's 1322, I think is the reference that you were looking for, which was a, I mean, saves up for his children, leaves an inheritance for it.
The one I was talking about was for a great reason. A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, but the sinners wealth is laid up for the righteous.
That's what you're looking for.
Well, and we were talking about how, most people think it's wise to put money aside just in case. And we've always believed that God's going to provide daily.
(07:23):
You know, the Lord's prayer is that this goes to the attitude, right? So the question of just in case.
And I think that's where we wound up having that conversation kind of came to a head in our conversation. The tithing thing is, well, it's all, we all tend to make these things about what God's not trying to make them about.
When it comes to money or anything in life or everything is rooted in centered around God being the center of what's been broken in this world, which is our relationship with God.
(07:53):
So does God own everything? Yes. Does God have all the money in the world? Yes. Does God have what you need when you need it? Yes.
The focus is on a relationship that we have with God and we trust him. So saving up the question that I wrote down when you said saving up for rainy day churches take that mentality.
I guess you can take that on a personal level first because churches are nothing more than the extrapolation of personal relationships, right?
(08:16):
So you've got, especially if you get into a church that is making its decisions in a corporate body on a regular basis rather than with the Nell or lead group.
So that tendency to save up just because out of a root of fear fear that provision won't be there. That's what I mean by that.
Where do we stand in our relationship with God versus saving up because we're being good managers of what God has given us? You need a pencil or something?
(08:42):
Sticky note. Yeah, because I was even going to say because you could you could lump insurance in there and that almost that same thought pattern.
You know, people in our country, even it's almost illegal or it is illegal for ownership of the vehicle anyway to not have insurance that provides for those just in case situations.
(09:05):
So most people feel like that's a mandate and absolute and sure it's definitely wise in some ways to see.
But in our culture, we're also advised to kind of always think ahead on that and to consider how, yeah, like you just said in a fearful way is what I think.
(09:30):
Yeah, I agree. When it comes to insurance, that's a whole another category, right? Because, kind of, I mean, it's insurance is there because not everyone lives under a God rule.
Right. So not everyone's trying to build their things that it's there to kind of provide us a safeguard for lack of a better word for for those who the righteous versus the unrighteous or the wicked people who are wise versus the unwise and things.
(09:53):
And then of course we have other issues that regard relate to insurance and those kinds of things, which I wasn't really prepared to think about insurance on a deep level.
We'd be discovering that together.
But by and large, the shortest version that I can come up with the insurance thing is to say, you know, we live in a world that's broken and we were talking, I mean, this morning, you know, but we've told been told to be wise and as serpents and general as doves in the sense that we need to be wise about how we interact with a lost world.
(10:17):
And when you're dealing with insurance, you're dealing with interacting with the lost world.
So that's that again, you're dealing with things that are out of your control and insurance to a degree shouldn't be rooted in fear, but I think there's some wisdom to having some cushion there because we also deal with the fact that, you know,
costs and prices for things a lot of things just can't be saved up for in this world because of the way the world has inflated things now if it was if there was a world in which insurance didn't exist and people it probably would drive prices down in a lot of areas.
(10:45):
But that's that's something it's almost a difficult conversation to have based upon where it is because legitimately like you're saying greed and different forms of
whatever insecurities or whatever have driven that mentality, but also our cultural economy and such.
It is a little bit out of our hands some of that, however, like we're saying to advise people on money situations or wisdom within their family. That's what you're starting with right.
(11:18):
Yeah, that's what let's start with small there because I think that the one of the one of the verses that came to me was because it seems like there's when I was getting at with you earlier was there's this mentality of we should never save anything that that's almost what you hear from some kinds of
I've heard it from people you know we should always have trust that God's going to provide for us and we shouldn't have a savings and then the other side of that argument is we should save for everything just in case of a rainy day.
(11:44):
That's how it plays out interesting. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say we shouldn't save at all.
But I mean I literally don't remember anyone is there like preachers there are people who think that way.
I mean now I would border on the more you in our society these days the word hoard or protect or build up because of fear to me could be definitely not not godly with right.
(12:17):
And I think that's what I'm getting at.
But I would never say you shouldn't save anything.
Well I would say that what I'm trying to say is there's people who live on an extreme faith kind of side of things you know God's going to I'm making air quotes.
I just have a yeah I'm running across anyone well and I'm thinking we're fighting mostly people that believe you should save up for rainy day and that's godly wisdom right.
(12:39):
It depends on the church camp here in there's different kinds of church camps out there.
Well and without trying to break that down let's just take those extremes as an example or as a case study.
The point of the matter is both of those extremes one to save everything up for rainy day the other one is to just go crazy one is a symbol of gluttony and the other one is a symbol of fear or greed.
(13:01):
So you have one that's holding up everything for their own sake and the other one is just spending because they just want to feel an experience the pleasures of this world or whatever and they're not worried God will take care of me.
It's going to be fine that's their mentality is like I'll just do whatever and the verse that came to mind or that I looked up the other it was looking through the other day was in Proverbs 21 that's why I brought up Proverbs 21 to begin with which has precious treasure and oil or the dwelling of a wise person but a full consumes them that verse expresses both extremes.
(13:28):
Well it doesn't express expresses one extreme and not the other expresses not the extreme that says that we hold hard everything but the extreme that if you're consuming everything in other words if you're your whole world view is in order to just live life out and spend the money and not be wise with those things you wind up acting in a like as the better word I come up with is gluttonous you're just consuming you're just doing whatever you want without any fear or concern for the consequences.
(13:57):
That's not a problem for the consequences of that but someone who's wise about their resources will wind up accumulating not for a rainy day but accumulating such that they're able to be generous when called upon to be generous which goes to your question about offerings and not just the time that the offerings.
I think the problem is so many people well for one thing when you're looking at your own story or your own financial situations you've got different interpretations of the ways that you live some some that we know would give everything away and they and therefore they wouldn't have much but doesn't mean that they weren't also willing and ready to give whatever the next thing would be and may not and may have trouble paying their own bills we knew of a story of a lady and was going to do that.
(14:45):
I think the story of a lady and was constant who said to come home and her dad had given away all their furniture or whatever and he always gave away his last $20 and they could barely pay their bills.
Some of that is feels right and then on the other hand Bible says it's wisdom take care of your own family so there's some you know some angles on that but I think individually we have a we can it's not really our job to make those judgment calls it is right to look at the scriptures like you're saying this kind of scripture that feels like you're saying.
(15:14):
That's what the scripture that feels like it's saying that a wise person will likely have these things to draw from.
But precious treasure there's a one of my favorite scriptures that talk to women anyway.
(15:37):
And then the other one that's probably 14 months as every wise woman builds her house but a foolish one tears it down there's other scriptures that talk about the treasures that don't have anything to do basically with money or even provisions really but it's the treasures of relationship like you said or of of a godly piece and.
And this is what I'm getting at right because you bring up the convert the comfort there's some people who take in vows of poverty they don't have anything and they don't desire to have anything and they choose to live among the poor and be poor themselves that's again they're they're leaning on God for their right relationship there in that regard that's not that's not a that's not the full consuming their treasure that's someone who's the person who's giving away the furniture they're giving they still are giving from their dwelling they're giving from the whatever they consider they have they're willing to give that away and I think that's the attitude that we should have as believers.
(16:26):
And so when it comes to the issue of tithing for example when you talk about the 10% the attitude you mentioned earlier is it all belongs to God 10% is there is a cursor or a reminder that of that so that we don't lose sight of it but the reality is God owns it all so Christians should be living not just at the 10% but well beyond it we should be living in a situation to where we are able to the precious treasure of the world and the world is going to be a little bit more than that.
(16:55):
The precious treasure and oil are in the dwelling of a wise person where money is accumulating or resources or wealth of whatever that wealth be it's not all cash when we clear because it says here oil and treasure treasures are broad term as well that someone who's wise with the way they manage their lives will have margin or stuff on the outside that they can give that they can give themselves away freely because they understand the relationship that they have with God is a God who has an unending treasure to give to them so they give freely knowing that God takes care of them.
(17:24):
Some people do that at great risk sometimes but the point of the matter is the focus isn't about whether I'm saving up to take care of I'm not focused on me I'm focused on God and trusting God to instruct me how to live my life day by day sometimes that may mean giving it all away other times I mean letting it come.
Well that's what I'm trying to say I don't think it's then our job to really make that decision for other people or to even make that assessment because we don't know their full situation we don't really know how to even so we can give them wisdom from the scriptures God can direct them but some people end up without a job for a while and they don't it doesn't make any sense and they are trying their best to honor God but their finances are to honor him period in their lives to work faithfully at the church and whatever and things just don't make sense.
(18:10):
So then you read these scriptures and there's guilt incurred and that that's not right either because God doesn't really want he can fix us of sin but there's not a lot of time just sitting with nothing.
Yeah.
Everything was taken from him and God wasn't judging him that's what we learned the whole time it was literally just a test it was a express God was expressing that his faithful children are faithful.
(18:33):
Yeah and there's so many places in the scripture where it talks about the poor being so much more wealthy than the rich who doesn't even understand their wealth or has not a fear of God and then there's this scripture someone 12 says.
Hallelujah happy is the man who fears the Lord taking great delight in his commands his descendants will be powerful in the land the generation of the upright will be blessed wealth and riches are in his house and his righteousness and does wherever.
(19:00):
Really does that mean that anyone who doesn't have wealth and riches is not one who fears the Lord you know we can't look at it that way because that's not what it's trying to say and wealth and riches again we just discussed doesn't always mean a bunch of money laying around right.
It means that they understand the wealth that has been laid been given to them freely just even the love of God itself is a wealth a treasure and if we die right now we know that that's more valuable than having a bunch of money laying around because eternity is in the balance that way but but.
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And then down on a little bit further than that same song good will come to a man who lends generously and conducts his business fairly he'll never be shaken the right just man will be remembered but we know of ones who still end up in sort of financial whoa even though that's exactly that would completely describe their lives so I don't know that there's a formula I guess and it is definitely a daily walk and a relationship and like you said.
(20:03):
The tricky part of that is that each one of us go through different things and each each family experiencing different degrees of whatever it is God wants to challenge us with so that we can learn to trust him I think pretty much the whole of life on this earth is to learn how to trust him completely sure how to not need to see and yet believe like Jesus said right and yet that it's the hardest when you see your family going through struggles especially financially when it comes to.
(20:32):
And eventually financially when it feels very shallow kind of like we know that the the wealth of you know there's so many really evil wealthy people and that cannot possibly be the the reward of a godly life and yet at the same time God for some reason picks out some to have money and some to not and whatever we don't we don't totally get that and then Jesus told us that you know the it's difficult for a rich man to get into.
(21:01):
So there's something about having an attitude that's not of whatever the rich person's.
Right counter that against blessed or the poor in spirit for they shall see you know the poverty is is a pop in the rich man and Lazarus and those kind of examples of how sometimes poverty just literally having to live
you know meal to meal or whatever and trusting in God is still more valuable so that's it's it's odd when we read these proverbs or these Psalms and how God tells a truth but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the way we're seeing it you know black and white whatever.
(21:40):
Yeah and what we're trying what I when it comes to proverbs and the Psalms and it comes to the wisdom books in general ecclesiastes what we need to understand and is that these are not it'll always be the case the proverbs feels like it contradicts itself at times because sometimes it states two things that are true that seem to be opposite right you know don't answer a full according to his wrath don't answer a full according to his wrath I mean according to his folly what what what the what you know I don't know what's going on there so but there's no but the point of the matter is.
(22:09):
But does when you look at the rest of the context with the point of the matter is is if you just take them there what I'm going to say is these are wisdom that is generally true in the world they are not dependent upon your relationship with God it's just wisdom it's observations about the way humanity works and the way the world works that's what you have in the wisdom books and when you go what we're talking about what like even this business about precious treasure and oil that's the reality is if someone just consumes everything they're not going to have anything but if they're
(22:39):
care if they're wise about how they live their lives and they're going to wind up accumulating by default well the one I read was about hearing the Lord though that that was that's not a wisdom book that this is a right it's a song so it is a celebration of what is true and right which is that the fear of the Lord will really does determine our understanding I believe of wealth and riches well in relationships yeah in relationships don't go away because resources do window or resources are plentiful right sometimes
(23:08):
plentiful resources will bring around and riches are clarified by our fear of God because relationships tend to be focused on and like you're saying yeah well understand the fear of the Lord that's a respect putting God in His proper putting God in His proper place
prioritizing who God is and how He is center to your world is what allows us to make judgments that are wise when it comes to interacting with the world around us
(23:34):
and so that relationship is our priority so when the Bible tells us to love the Lord your God with all your heart so mine and strength that means put everything you are into understanding and connecting fearing the Lord is the beginning of wisdom right
and having that relationship and then how you interact with the world loving your neighbor is yourself is the natural outflow of what you understand love to be because of what you have in the loving relationship you have with God they're not exclusive but they is that right it's not exclusive
(23:59):
they're not one or the other they're not mutually exclusive they depend upon one another but first is God in all things it has to begin there and so money resources savings not savings if you're saving up for a rainy day you're not putting God first you're saving up because you're worried about whether or not you'll have money when time comes should you have saving sure if it's nice to have it when it's there when a rainy day comes but sometimes rainy days come and the rain just keeps coming and the rain just keeps coming and the range of Job had everything and he lost it all in a day
(24:29):
yeah so that doesn't mean God loved Job any last doesn't mean and so the point that we're trying to make here is we should live in relationship and wisely in reflection of that relationship in relationship to that relationship that's not there's a lot of relationships going on
we used to talk about well being conduits you were you had a sermon one time on the Holy Spirit and how we we would plug into the source so that we can be a resource for others kind of like a extension quarter whatever I was thinking about obedience is what's more important and the Bible is clear about that too that when the Holy Spirit wants us to use those funds that we have because he has given them to us that's again what we're forgetting to say
(25:14):
is that he still gives us everything we have so if he's given a portion for us to set aside well then we have to be reminding remembering that that might be even not for our own good for someone else or for a situation or for something that he has set aside and we may not know it yet so I I think that again being obedient means that if God has taught us how to be wise
(25:44):
and put a little bit of a savings side then that's fine but the problem is remembering that it's still not yours if it belongs to him all of our resources everything we have along to him so as we go trust him as we go make decisions according to how he leads us right and the needs that we come across like in Acts 2 where they had everything in common and they were all their stuff belong to each other that was that was pretty radical of them and pretty you know what we might call even a so
(26:14):
socialist mindset now but it was but it was a perfect way to handle everyone's needs problem is we don't perfectly handle all those
well yeah it was a generous mindset yeah and you know socialism is in modern parlance social socialism is when we press upon someone to share
(26:35):
right trying to make a difference there's a yeah there's a big difference in that right and what we see in Acts is that because of this actually is a really good example of loving the
Lord your God right because they loved and understood what God had given them in Jesus that was new to them but it's so rattled their cages that they were like we don't need anything else we want to make sure everyone has what they need so they sold everything they had and shared it to
(26:57):
what everyone as they had need it was a willing lane it was you know socialism can never do what generosity can do can never it can never bless and when something
was blown your mind such as resurrected man who you know made that promise to you yeah life really all the sudden becomes quite in perspective it makes a whole lot more sense why do we have this
(27:24):
well it's actually so that we can share it not so that we can worry about our eternity which is another theme in the Bible almost sounds like people think like the Egyptians kind of that you can take it with you that you can
know stock it up for your pyramid or whatever your tomb burial but we know that's not true we know that we've uncovered these tombs and that stuff is still there did not go with them and they did not have the wealth that they thought in what we would believe into the afterlife you know we believe that the wealth that we need it will be there it will be Jesus
(27:56):
himself it will be all we need so so the treasures of this earth are exactly for this earth that's kind of the example so I just I love that in X to because that's what they were experiencing they knew now that eternity itself death itself had been destroyed right now none of this matters none of this is a big deal let's just and and God obviously if he can
(28:20):
shatter death and you know control the elements to that degree just like they saw Jesus walking on the water then obviously he can also provide for us whatever we need I think what's hard on this earth though is to watch people trust him cry out to him and then see them really struggle still to fight him
(28:42):
and meet most all the time you still see someone coming through someone being the conduit that God has sent to provide for them yeah I mean including us right now we're able to help your brother a little bit who has helped us in the past God God has
switched our yes which our positions enough that it is it's how it is it's the way he is letting us kind of be thankful back and you know that's just how
(29:10):
that's how this earth I think makes more sense in God's economy it's just not always it's not always spelled out exactly as we feel like it should be or make sense like you know the peace of
land we'd like to find for all these 50 people that seem to want to come here and live it does seem that there seems to be a desire for people to have a
commune situation in a place where we live in their car we literally we dance as a lot in order to get through our second bedroom the tent yeah the
(29:34):
we are nomads we are truly Israelites and so yes I am just interestingly enough just pointing back to the proverbs that I quote earlier in 2021 21 through 23 are proverbs that point to what moderation and strength so
(29:56):
so in proverbs where I was reading earlier in verse 20 it actually is a little cluster of proverbs 20 there's several clusters here but what I think is interesting about this because I already mentioned
proverbs 21 20 says precious treasure and oil are in the dwelling of a wise person but a fool consumes them so as I said it's contrasting one who practices moderation and first sight
(30:18):
one who swallows everything like a glutton so it's plenty but the other two here listen this the one who pursues righteousness and faithful love
will find life righteousness and honor so we talked about relationship and pursuing righteousness you don't pursue righteousness devoid of relationship there's no such thing as independent righteousness righteousness is related to how you interact
(30:39):
with the people around you how are you are you one who does justice who walks rightly right and so
and the proverbs 21 saying as you seek these virtues you find the desires of life become fulfilled you find life itself
you find that righteousness excuse me pursues righteousness and faithful love I'm sorry the love is the relationship part as well as the relationship right
(31:00):
will find life they'll not only find the righteousness they're looking for but they'll also find honor people will honor them
and then the next one says a wise person went up against the city of warriors and brought down its secure fortress so we talk about the fact that
someone who is uh is that right what I wanted to you have 22 uh
the confidence that places uh the comment there's a commentary I'm looking at right now says the last Hebrew word translated as they trust the one who trust
(31:28):
is says that uh filler you know is the key pointing out the confidence placed in strength in numbers and contrasting it with the wise person's trust in God
someone who's going after it with numbers who um can bring down a fortress if they trust God does that make sense so
person went up against the city of warriors large numbers one person goes up a city of numbers what large numbers
(31:51):
but because of their relationship with God they can conquer anything and that's kind of a theme of what we've been talking about
in the sense that if God is a sinner of things and everything else is going to take care of
itself because God can tear down the what the warriors if you make your relationship but pursuing righteousness we know
righteousness is found in Christ alone we can only find that so it goes back to that relationship someone who
pursues righteousness and faithful love who is the one who loves us faithfully greater love has no man than this the one who
(32:16):
lays down his life for a friend Jesus Christ. Well yeah he also said seek first his kingdom and all of these things and it has just been
that chapter has been talking about him providing for the birds of the air and um Solomon was not a raid as you know one of
these flowers that kind of thing so seek you first his kingdom and all these things will be added all the things that you need all the
(32:38):
things that are what you are uh encountering in this earth or whatever provided for so yeah that's what we've always
tried to live by or live understanding. And then the last thing in this passage that actually comes back around and kind of
is interesting because it says verse 23 the one who guards his mouth and tongue keeps himself out of trouble now the
(33:01):
writer probably shifts and gets to arrogance and pride next so but I think it's interesting if we look at this about the
fact that being a moderation person someone who's who is in one who pursues love and relationship and the one who's
wise about how they engage with others they can tear down a city wall but it's saying a lot of it resides in how we
talk to one another how we don't or do say things how we handle our words because words are weapons. Wow yeah and so I just
(33:24):
think that's very words are words are weapons or they're healing bombs and I just think it's interesting that that
that's the way that it's it's broken down and you know look at it these are just different examples of
moderation and strength and where was that last verse at? That's Proverbs 21 23 the one who
guards his mouth and tongue keeps himself out of trouble. Okay so anyway I I just found that fascinating and I
(33:46):
just thought I would throw that in there because I think it it that like everything in scripture it's
I it's kind of all tied together you know what I'm saying yeah as usual going on down a little bit
further in that same chapter a slackers craving will kill him because his hands are fused to work
he's filled with craving all day but the righteous give and don't hold back so almost exactly what we're
(34:08):
saying both could come to poverty if the righteous give and don't hold back that they're not going to have
much but the slacker says that he's not even going to fill the cravings of his heart or of his life like
we we know a righteous person who is poor still seems to believe in contentment they still seem to be
(34:28):
at peace in fact they'll talk about that you and I think that was one of the conversation pieces that
when we were talking uh two of our kids the other day we didn't have much and we never we knew we
wouldn't have much the ministry just doesn't pay that much not like a even if even the uh ones in our
field who are doctors of whatever dr. theology or you know have doctors after they even still don't
(34:53):
make much money that's just not a field you know I was thinking of a game of life and how you can
choose to be a actual doctor or a scientist whatever the decisions are roll of a dice when you
choose to follow Jesus a lot of times that we know of missionaries who give up everything you were
talking about in your sermon about how there aren't very many you know just uh independent Christians
(35:18):
who live by themselves but there's a few missionaries who give everything kind of went by themselves to
go try that was thinking of David Brainer and so like that who who give up their um possessions and
maybe even relationships to go but also end up giving up their health to go and be a messenger so
there's a value obviously beyond this world and that's what Christians live for and so the the
(35:43):
welches wealth and the honor and the riches that are listed and these are usually referring to those
type of genuine wealth the things that make us fulfilled and satisfied and whole and so that is
the difference I do believe that's that Christians see money see possessions just so much differently
(36:08):
are even even in the times where we might have gotten a decent tax return so for a few minutes we
had money in the bank or whatever we would go see relatives or we would end up you know having
um what I feel like we're we're moments that we're investment moments so it's it's always been
still the way you use money is different when you're a Christian because you tend to to see these
(36:32):
earthly experiences and wealth as investments in people and in uh yeah eternity I guess
yeah I like to see that and slackers craving will kill him because his hand refused to work
yeah I know that's what that's the same yeah there's the filling with craving all day long with the
(36:52):
righteous give and don't hold back that's what was going to say that's what leads into it so you've
got the slacker who's just it's the opposite of the glutton right they're just doing everything I know
and um and so yeah but but I like to but I think you said this but if you didn't don't just want to say
it to clarify that you can't out give God is is kind of where we're getting now with this is in the
(37:12):
situation here the the the the righteous give and they don't hold back they're not afraid to that's
what you talked about just be willing to just go and and take the resources and invest it in people
invest it in in the relationships that matter and um but I like the idea that no matter what you do
you're given goes well sometimes and even sometimes we'll give beyond what we have to spare we'll do
whatever we need to do in order to sacrifice or not sacrifice to build those relationships we'll
(37:36):
sacrifice ourselves in the benefit of others again back to the bigger theme of what we're talking about
well those there's the last two verses of this chapter kind of sum it up no wisdom no understanding
and no counsel and I would add in there no riches we'll prevail against the Lord so all of this
if the if you see any of these as valuable it's going to be God that will pour those back
(38:00):
towards you when you're trusting in him versus and the next one a horse is prepared for the day of
battle but victory comes from the Lord again you can have all the horses and chariot such as we see
in the Old Testament a lot of you know say for instance giddy and or whatever you might have
the biggest army the biggest whatever but it's only God that really gives the increase that gives
the victory that gives the true riches true treasure so no matter what monotarily might be in your
(38:27):
bank account it's God who provides and once again so so we we have to see it that way we see that
that money sitting there or that money invested as his and it is to be used for his glory so
so it's just such a it's freeing to think that way if a christian will think that way
because it's still God gave it he can take it away he can take it away he can also replenish it
(38:53):
so anyway I was thinking about this verse too you just said it because the whole theme of this chapter
has been about wisdom in how we apply things moderation versus gluttony versus you know
relationship and I was thinking about Psalm 27 some trust in chariots and some in horses but we trust
in the name of the Lord our God that's not what this verse is saying though this verse is saying
a horse is prepared oh so okay so God brings the battle brings the victory and so it's it's
(39:19):
this goes to the whole theme right so we can do what we need to do to be wise about how we manage our
money about how we manage our relationships about how we do but God's ultimately the glue that
holds it all together he's the one that everything's rooted in and we have to be mindful of that as
we walk through our lives to understand that it we're going to make decisions as they come and they
may and and one of the things we learned from the Old Testament characters the heroes of the Old
(39:40):
Testament who are really not heroes at all their examples of of the mess of people that God that God
still pursues us yeah no matter how humanity just trips us up constantly but but why did you just say
that those aren't the same because I see them very similar they're not the same this way some trust
in horses right some trust in chariots but we trust in the name of the Lord versus this one saying
(40:06):
this verse is saying so your horse maybe you're already and it may be even trained to the fullest
I'm even thinking of whatever it might be a race or a battle but it's God who gives the victory so
it's the same thing if you're trusting in that horse to bring you victory it's not going to happen
unless he God wants it no matter how much he's trained so isn't it the same principle it could be
(40:26):
seen that way I read it I'm reading it differently though I'm saying that because I also see throughout
Proverbs where it says that planning is something that men do but God's still going to be the one
that orders our steps that's one of my favorite Proverbs and the reality is I mean even if I look at
cross references in my Bible Proverbs Psalm 27 is what comes up which is why I brought it up
in Proverbs 33 Psalm 33 17 the horse is a false hope for safety it provides no escape by its great
(40:51):
power you know I can go to 108 Psalms is full of it right full of these statements give us
who will bring me to the fortified city who will lead me to eat him Lord you have haven't rejected
us God you do not march out with our armies give us aid against the foe for human help is worthless
with God we will perform valiantly he will trample our foes and then you got let's see what I got
(41:19):
here in Isaiah woe to those who go down to Egypt for help and who depend on horses they trust in
abundance of chariots and in large numbers of horsemen they do not look to the holy one of Israel and
they do not seek the Lord so the cross references that I have here would point to those verses being
in step with one another but when I read it because and to me because of the context I don't know
that I'm arguing with it I need to look at it closer but when I read it in context of this constant
(41:42):
sense of leaning on God versus someone who squanders it and it seems each each proverb plays one
against the other um yeah I mean that makes sense I'm wrong or but I but I do think that that
that we should yeah we should be prepared we should be prepared for life but we also need
understand that our preparation is trusting the Lord and understanding that our victory comes to the
(42:04):
Lord not trusting in our own preparedness and I think that's what I'm driving at well what yeah exactly
but when you're looking at that verse before no wisdom no understanding no counsel will prevail
against the Lord but it also means it's not going to prevail if like in that next verse if you're
depending on it versus depending on him's he's still got to bring the victory so yeah I mean it's
(42:24):
both and while I may be completely wrong in understanding this particular verse I think the point
still valid yeah we still need to make our horses ready for battle wrong at all it's but it's all the
same thing to me yeah I think it's the same thing too I just think it's it's funny that that's what
Bible studies all about right to have in conversations about what the word says and seeing how we can get
a better lens on who God is and how he impacts well and how yes and how yes and how it's alive and
(42:49):
sharper than any two-inch source or everyone that reads it's going to need a piece you know maybe
something different well it's going to be when we talk about it we are able to bring those things out
I looked over here on the other other page it's chapter 20 but it says the Lord's lamp
sheds light on a person's life searching the innermost parts so exactly what I just said and he
(43:12):
brews it talks about the sword which is the word of God being the one that cuts and teaches us so no
matter what these pages say or these words say we know God is teaching us as we talk through these
principles amen so what did we learn about money we learned that money is not really what we're
focused on it's about the love of money is a real legal nevermind yeah but it's that you start
(43:37):
another worm again yeah I know love of money or love of Jesus if you love Jesus then money can
be used well that goes but you pointed that out now just we can close with this thought to it's
easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle then a rich man to the kingdom of God that's
because the more you acquire the easier it is to be enamored with it and just fall in love with it
because it is it is a resource again I I would say that's visible that feels like it's your saving
(44:03):
grace right we know that that's probably why Jesus even warned them that is not your savior don't
see it as it and once you do you you know you're farther from the kingdom because he was always
teaching about how to find the kingdom so instead seek first to him his kingdom and then the rest
of it will be added to you as God sees fit to provide it yeah Matthew 633 just keeps coming back to
(44:28):
the surface just like cream rise into the top well I think that's going to be about it for today I
thank you so much for your conversation guys we're so glad you guys joined us morning this evening
this afternoon wherever you are whatever time of day you're listening and we're going to sign
off ton you need other thoughts closing words other than goodbyes farewell a feedersing
all that kind of stuff hey well till next time guys just keep on
(44:52):
I keep on
I keep on
I keep on
Keep on
(45:22):
Keep on
I keep on
I keep on
I keep on
I keep on
I keep on
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