June 26, 2025 • 51 mins
Learning new Florida HOA Condo Association Laws
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Ask The Experts Florida is broadcast live Mondays at 9AM ET and Thursdays at 5PM ET on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Ask The Experts Florida is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests and not
those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
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liability explicitor implies shall be extended to W four CY
Radio or it's employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments
should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for
(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to the Ask the Experts Show on W four
CY Radio and Talk for TV, where we bring you
educational information from top local experts in the fields of legal, health,
financial and home improvement. Now sit back and listen to
experts in family law, association, law, hearing laws, business brokers,
(00:47):
home care, along with many other topics. Now here are
your hosts, Spevo and Sophia.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Hey, good afternoon, Orlando. Welcome to another FC expert show
where we bring you the top experts in the field
of legal, health, financial and home improvement. Hey, before we
start the show today, I got to give the little
love out. I have never written unlass. We've been with
W four c Y for the about the last two years.
(01:19):
And I just want to think our producer Wan, who
does our shows on Thursdays and Fridays, I don't ever
think I thank him enough. Every time I've got a problem.
He's always there for me and he's just a good guy.
So love out to my great producer. Now. Right before
(01:45):
the show, we were doing a little ro love before
the show, and I got to tell everybody because you know,
we get so many emails and text about our shows.
The Cave Bender Rimbaum shows, without a doubt get more
(02:07):
texts and letters than any of my thirty five shows,
actually more than the shows we've been doing for the
last fifteen years. But our expert today, Allen Attorney, Board
certified attorney. I will never leave that out Board certified attorney,
(02:28):
Alan Swartzeed. I got to tell you the letters that
come in about him are absolutely amazing, and first of all,
we want to thank you for taking the time just
to write a letter saying love the show, Love Alan.
He's been a great help to us. We actually have
(02:50):
people who listen to his show board members that it's
a requirement to listen to the show. I don't even
know if I've even shared that with Alan. I have
with the senior partner, Robert k. But there's actually board
members that it's a requirement that they listen to the show.
(03:15):
The people love Alan, welcome him to the show Board's
certified attorney. Alan swartseeed, you're gonna.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Make me blust her Steve.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Go for bro I gotta listen. You know what, when
you're good, you're good. I do so many shows. You know,
we do three a month with Hey Bender, but we
do thirty five shows a month. And the response that
we get for Kay Bender Rimbaum, and the response we
(03:52):
get for your show after fifteen years of Dilney's, I'm
just blown away. And you know, some of them are
even your clients, and they tell us what a great
job Ka been to Rimbaum that they do for them,
and they feel so lucky to have your firm. So
(04:15):
you know, why not share the love? Huh?
Speaker 4 (04:18):
All right? Well, I again, I appreciate that, and know
I was not aware that anyone had made listening to
our show's mandatory, but I think it's probably a good idea.
You know, you spend three hours every month paying attention
to current events in this community Association industry, because keep
in mind, you've got mostly people who are not experienced
(04:40):
in business that are on a lot of boards of
directors for condos, hoys and co ops in Florida, and
it's you know, there are plenty of people that are experienced,
and I think that's fantastic that they're willing to give
back and volunteer their time, just like we are here today.
But well, at least one of us is Steve. But
you know, I do think it's important that you know
(05:01):
that education piece is always very important to our firm,
and it's really great to hear that people take it
seriously because you know, you have your requirements and it
sounds really ominous and onerous that have to sit there
if you're in an hoa and do three to four hours,
you know, every couple of years, and do four to
eight hours a year. But even if you had to
(05:23):
do all that in a year, it's twelve hours out
of the entire year to make sure you're doing this right,
I think adding another three hours a month it sounds
like a lot, but again, you know that's that's three
nights where you spend an hour with people like me
and Steve think of but you know.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And you guys do so many different One of the
things you do is to your certification classes, and we
get a lot of emails people saying how much they
enjoyed the certification classes and what's amazing is there even
longer here, longer now than and that people still love them.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Well, I just did one with Kurston out in Tampa.
I don't remember if it was yesterday or the day before.
I mean, those things are brutal, man. I can't even
coach all four hours. I can't imagine people sitting through
and listening to all four hours. But that's part of
why we give the materials afterwards, so that people have
something to refer back to, because I mean, listen, I
get that that's what the legislature wants us to do.
(06:27):
I think in reality we could easily make it eight
to twelve hours and still not get through everything I'd
like all board members to know. But you know, at
least now, it's it's mandatory that people at least learn
a little bit about what they're supposed to know in
order to do this job properly. And while you're not
getting paid for it, it is a job.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
You know, you guys do I think it's called ask
a lawyer, ask an attorney. Yeah, ask an attorney. And
I've been to actually several of them that Robert and
Michael have done. And I'm actually sitting there in the
audience and the people come there and one of the
(07:08):
guys said, you know what, I only have a couple questions.
I kind of tell you that one hour presentation first
of all, turned into two hours because here's one person.
His two questions turned into eight questions, and people love
when you guys do that.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Ah, I will tell you. So we're planning some of
the upcoming seminars for July and August, and I always
plan to not schedule anything for at least a half
hour after that seminar is supposed to end, because I know, realistically, yes,
we're going to go through the information, but there are
going to be more questions because we explain things that,
(07:50):
as you've mentioned to me in the past, we explain
it in plain English. But it leads people, instead of
being confused, to just have more questions that they want
answered so that they can understand better. And I think
that you know, it's it's difficult for a lot of
attorneys to explain things in plain English, especially those that
do a ton of litigation like I have in the past.
(08:11):
I'm very fortunate that the firm doesn't want me doing
that right now. But you know, I spent fifteen years
in the courtrooms, and you have to explain things very
differently for a judge than the way that you would
explain it to a client. And I think that that's
one thing that our litigation team does really well. But
it's something I've learned to do, is speak in plain English.
But and I was speaking with someone about this just today.
(08:33):
One of the clients that I met with said, you know,
you really make it understandable without making me feel like
an idiot the way that I'm asking the question. And
I think that's a skill that almost I certainly won't
say it's more important than being able to give the
correct answer, but it's almost equally important that you know,
it's more important that people understand the answer, especially if
(08:56):
they're going to try and use the information you're giving
that to formulate an opinion. And a lot of times
you're not telling the board what to do as an attorney,
you're telling the board, here's what could happen if you
don't do it right.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Well, here's something else. I don't know if you're going
to be shocked this or not, but we do the
show all across the country, so we we're probably maybe
twenty five thirty cities, and I got to tell you
that community association law is becoming bigger and bigger. But
(09:35):
here's the problem that these associations need to beware of.
There's a lot of law firms out there who are
just sticking up on their shingle. They specialize in community
association law, which they maybe have done one or two cases.
(09:57):
This is all Hey Rimbaum does.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Yeah, I mean at KBR, this is literally all we do,
you know, we and ninety percent of the time, I'll
be candid, we're representing the association, if not more than
ninety percent of the time. Right. But again, you know,
this is not something that we dabble in, and frankly,
because it's so specific and so statutorially and case law driven.
(10:24):
It's not just read through the documents and you've got
your contractual answer. In this area of law, it's truly
a if you're not knowledgeable about what to look for.
You know, I've I've heard other people make the comment
you don't know what you don't know, and that makes
it dangerous. And that's what I tend to see happen,
(10:44):
and I think most people in this industry tend to
see happen when you deal with a dabbler. You know,
we don't We do the work and it's all we do.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Well. I want people to be aware of that, that
it's so important that you go with a firm like
hey Ben to Rimbaum Firm, that this is all they've done.
How many years has Cave been to Rimbaum from.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
The early nineties. I think it's over thirty years.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Wow. Well, I got to tell you what we do here.
If you just tuned in for the first time, we
get so many questions from you, our listeners, and our viewers,
and we compile those questions up and there's no way
we could get them all in. And we also.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Take questions a five hour show Steve, Yeah right, no kidding,
And we also take questions on our YouTube.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Here's the deal. I know we're going to get questions
today about the new laws. We're not going to handle
those today. We're going to wait till next month because
that was just signed off on by the governor. But
I see our first question up there, Alan, Okay, from Todd,
one assessment was done that included lined items Electrical upgrade
(12:09):
structured ELSs. Is that considered one assessment where we can
a lot money from our own budgeted item to be
under budget to an under budgeted item.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Well, if you don't use the full amount, for example,
somehow you get a deal or it doesn't take as
much work for the vendor to do the work that
that special assessment was supposed to pay for, then the
short answer is, yeah, that becomes pretty much operating funds.
Some communities will demand and when I say communities, I
really mean the owners will say you didn't use all
that money, you need to give it back. Well, no,
(12:46):
you don't.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
You know.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
The reality is that becomes operating funds of the association.
If you know that that project will come up again,
you can kind of make that an unofficial reserve, but
nothing says that the association must do that. It's really
those are operating funds going forward. So the short answer
to your question, I think Todd was the name. The
short answer Todd is yeah, you can use that for
(13:08):
whatever you want as long as that project is complete
and you've used as much of that special assessment as
needed to complete that project. If you're still if you
still have that project ongoing, then I would keep that
money for its intended purpose, because otherwise then an owner
might have a problem and might have a valid claim.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Let's go to Carl in Orlando. At what point does
your email become part of the condo records and become
public when you registered with the association or just by
sending an email to the association.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
So that's still kind of up for debate. And the
reason I say that is because there's nothing in the
statute that clarifies whether those emails qualify as official records
and when the statute basically says and this applies to
condo's co ops nhoas So when I say the statute,
I really mean all three individual statutes. They all say
(14:06):
that the written records of the Association are the official records,
and those are written records pertaining to the business of
the association. That could be pretty much anything. The question
is whether an email is a written record or it's
an electronic record that's not written. My opinion has always
been that once that email is printed, it's clearly a
(14:27):
written record. But there is question and frankly DBPR, which
is the government entity that rules on these types of issues,
they've gone in both directions. There's no court case law
deciding when an email becomes an official record. My perspective
is if it's been printed, if it's been shared outside
(14:48):
of the board and management, it probably is an official
record of the association. So if it went out, meaning
it's an outward going email, if it came in from
someone other than the management firm and the board between
each other, that probably will qualify as an official record.
But again, it could be every email, even internal to
(15:10):
the board, with the exception being obviously if it's for
potential litigation or at the direction of council, you've then
got a potential privilege issue that makes it an official
record but still exempt from being produced to the members.
So that's a lot of words to say. The law
make it clear. Do you think it will ever get
tied down?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Though?
Speaker 4 (15:28):
I think eventually it will when someone gets fed up
enough that they say we need these emails, and someone
decides to appeal a decision either of the arbitrators of
the DBPR or of a court up to a higher level,
and then we'll have case law that's on point. But
a decision by a county court or by a circuit
court within the state law system, that's not going to
(15:52):
be It's not going to be a decision that you
need to rely on. I'm trying not to use legal
terminology and put it in plain English, but that that
wouldn't be something that every court then needs to follow
until it hits the appellate level, which hasn't happened yet
to my knowledge.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
I got to tell you, we just got a text
in from Christy and Orlando. I am on the board
of my association. We actually use cavee Nder Rimbomb and
we had another firm before them, and that's why we
have cave Bender Rimbom now and they are without a
(16:36):
doubt the best. We love your show. We listen to
it all the time. Please, people, if you're looking for
I know you had to have a relative right.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
This if you're nothing to do with this one. I
didn't even know what was coming.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
That is really sweet. Thank you, Christian, Thank you very much. Yeah, really,
let's go to Trey in Orlando. Our KINDOSGOVERNMDOC were filed
in two thousand and two without Kaufman language. Okay, if
we revise them in two thousand and twenty five without
Koffman language, well, two thousand and two or twenty twenty
(17:14):
five a law apply to us.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
So if you're going to add that Kaufman language to
the declaration, and for those listening who haven't heard us
talk about this eight thousand times, yes, language is that
language that you might have in your governing documents that
incorporates the Condominium Act, Chapter seventy eighteen of the Florida Statutes.
And here's the important part, as amended from time to time.
So it's it's that as amended from time to time
(17:39):
language that's important. And it needs to specifically refer directly
to the statute or the Condo Act in order for
what we're saying right now to apply. Usually procedural changes
in the statute, these amendments that the legislature makes every
year and kicks us around and kicks the can down
the road as to what we're required to do and
(18:02):
not required to do. Those statutory amendments. If they are
procedural in nature, meaning how you go about doing something,
those will all apply regardless of whether you've got this
language and your declaration. But if it's a substantive right
of the association or the owners. Meaning you're not allowed
to enforce XYZ anymore in a Florida condominium. That's a
(18:23):
substantive right. Okay, if you've got covenants, rules, and regulations
and the legislature says you can't have those anymore, and
if you have them, you can't enforce them. If the
legislature does this, and you have Kaufman language, that statute
will apply. If you don't have language in the declaration
that says this, then generally speaking, the statute that was
(18:44):
in place as of the date that declaration was recorded
is the one that is relevant to the legal analysis.
That's a lot of words. I'm going to move on
to the actual answer to the question. Now, if you
made that change and you amended your declaration in twenty
twenty five, my opinion is every statutory revision that's been
in place before twenty twenty five will apply to your association,
(19:07):
and so will all of the ones that apply going forward.
So every statutory amendment will now apply to the association.
So the question of what statute applies, well, the newest
one is really the answer. Once you make that amendment,
I would recommend against it because we've seen some things
that the legislature has done that don't make me very
happy about representing associations and having my clients have to
(19:31):
deal with certain issues that, in my opinion, they shouldn't.
Especially some of the changes to the HOA Statute over
the last year I've considered pretty I'll call it draconian,
but it's draconian against the association. Instead of protecting the
interests of the owners, it's protecting the interests of individual
owners instead of the community as a whole. So again,
(19:53):
short answer, if you put that amendment in place, now
every statutory amendment across the board will apply your condo.
So again, for that reason, I don't recommend it, but
it is something that the board can consider and if
the members approve it, have at it. It's all yours, Alan.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
We're going to take our first break. When we come back,
we're going to go over your schedule. Tell people how
they can reach your office.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
So the easiest way to reach me is by email.
My emails right up on the screen right here if
you're just listening. It's as as an Alan schwartzide at
kbar legal dot com. The other way to reaching the
office you can call us at nine five four nine
two eight zero six eight zero. That'll reach any of
our offices. That's the front desk in Pompino, and we
(20:46):
do have four offices for those that don't know us,
Pompino Beach, Palm Beach Gardens, my office here in Winter Springs,
which is in Orlando area, and another office in Tampa
also Miami. By appointment. Twenty three attorneys, eight board certified
community association law, including myself, one board certified in construction law. Again,
pretty much anything in community association needs we can handle.
(21:10):
But we're not looking to take you away from your
council if you're happy. So, as Christy mentioned, some people
are not happy with their current counsel. Those are the
ones that want to reach out to me, and I'd
be happy to talk to you about how we might
be able to help your community operate a little better.
But if you're happy where you're at, stay there, no
problem at all.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Okay, we're going to go to break. When we come back,
we're going to go over the seminars and classes that
you've got coming up. Will be right back on.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
Cave vendor Rembaum is a full service community association law
firm dedicated to the representation of community associations throughout Florida.
On kbrlegal dot com you can learn more about their
offices and pump O Beeach Palm Beach Gardens, Orlando, Tampa,
as well as throughout Miami Dade by appointment. Several k
(22:08):
Bender Rembam attorneys are board certified specialists in condominium and
plan development law and assist clients with all matters of
community association legal issues while keeping them up to date
on new developments that affect their associations. K Benda Rembaum
is also a well known provider of free legal education
for managers and board members. Contact Kbende Rembaum today by
(22:31):
calling eight hundred nine seven four zero six eight zero.
That's eight hundred nine seven four zero six eight zero
to reach any of their locations. You can also visit
them online at KBR legal dot com or write to
them at info at KBR legal dot com.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
And we are backed with the Astexpert Show on W
FOURCY Radio and Talk for TV with your hosts Sphedo,
Sophia and their expert guests.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
And we are back. We are here with board certified
attorney Allen Swartside. He is with the cave Bender rimbaumb
he manages their office in Orlando, the Orlando office, and
we started talking about beginning to show all the classes,
(23:24):
the seminars, the free seminars that cave Beender Rimbaum put
on every month. And boy, I tell you, Allen, it's
like you've got a busy month and starting the end
of this month and going into July. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Well, I mean the good news is these aren't all
me but we do have a lot of them coming up. Monday.
Next Monday at two pm, I'm going to be speaking
with Jeff Embaum regarding association insurance requirements. We've got association
leadership coming up July ninth at noon. Tenth is the
Educate to Elevate expo for Castle Group in Broward. The
(24:04):
one in Palm Beach is July sixteenth. July twenty fourth
at eleven am. We've got a board certification class for
HOA directors. July twenty ninth at eleven am. I will
be joining my relatively new colleague Chuck Nix in my office.
This will be a webinar for updating your governing documents.
(24:25):
He'll be going through some of the generic Here's what
our materials are and then I like to add my
top twenty amendments that I think every community association board
should be considering to try and make your community operate
a little better. So you know, that's as usual our
list of six seven items we've got, but I think
we'll probably end up closer to fifteen twenty by the
(24:47):
end of the month. We're also working on the schedule
for August, but we can talk about that at the
end of next month.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Okay, you know, I know we got the email from
Maadi which I have down here, talked about what happens
if you're elected to your board and you haven't gotten
certified yet. How long do you have? So you might
as well answer that one now, sure, So.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
That is a condo co op hoa all the same,
You've got ninety days from the date you were elected
to complete that class. If you don't, sorry, but you're
off the board. It's not a board decision. It's a suspension,
to be clear. Okay, you're not off permanently, You're off
until you actually complete that requirement, which the requirement is
(25:34):
not just taking the class, it's making sure that that
certificate reaches the secretary or your community association manager and
gets into the official records. That's when you get back
on the board can basically sit there and say, well,
John didn't do what he was supposed to do in time,
so we're going to go ahead and appoint someone else
to take his spot until he takes care of this requirement.
(25:55):
Now we've got both classes almost every month HOA and
condos slash co op. I know I've got a. We've
got the HOA coming up next month, at least once.
I'm sure we'll end up with a condo and possibly
another HOA. So you know, it should not be that difficult.
If you go on our website at KBR legal dot com,
(26:18):
click on the calendar link, you can register for any
one of these webinars for free and take it online.
I don't care if you take it in your underwear
with a drink in your hand. The reality is it
shouldn't be that difficult to get this done. I understand
a lot of people work. We try and do them
during the day just so that people that you know
are Frankly, I expect a lot of people to be
(26:38):
sitting there and listening in the background of whatever they're doing.
But the reality is we're giving you the opportunity to
do this for free online and not have to worry
about anything. So if you're not willing to do it
within ninety days after being elected, my thought process has
been for some time, maybe you don't need to be
a director of an HOA, a condo or a co
op because maybe you don't care enough to put that
(27:01):
three to four hours into it to learn what you
need to learn in order to know the absolute basics
of being a director.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
We just got a text from Ron he wants to
know him thinking about running for the board. What I
know you can't go into great detail, but what's involved
in the certification classes.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
So they're different for condo slash co op versus HOA.
They go into budgets, elections, collection of assessments, covenant enforcement
and violations. I mean, there is a statutory list of
what these classes need to include. It's very similar from
(27:46):
condo to HOA. The major change between the two is
that the condo co op one is going to deal
with milestone inspection reports, structural integrity, reserve studies and that's frankly,
that's an entire set action of the four that we
teach for condo because the legislature considers it's so important.
So that's the major change between one and the other.
(28:08):
But again it's as I mentioned a minute ago, it's
primarily here are the absolute basics of how to be
a director and not completely screw this up. And the
most important thing that we teach during that class is
the fiduciary duty, which is the responsibility of every director
to do what's in the best interest of the association,
even if they don't like it or even if it
(28:30):
hurts them. So it's learning. Basically, the goal of this
class is to teach you how to make business decisions
rather than making emotional decisions or making decisions on what
you think is best for you.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Ronnie and Sanford wants to know why will the dB RP,
which we just talked about, not get involved with choa's.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
So the DVPR generally doesn't get involved in hoa's because
they have no jurisdiction over hoa's. There are certain issues
with an HOA that they do have the authority to
step in, but usually it's going to be primarily with
management company issues and not the association itself. The distinction
there is that in condo Land, they do have that authority,
(29:15):
so they just don't have the authority to step in
on very many HOA issues at all. There was a
push in this legislative session to change that so that
they're governing and doing the same arbitration and governance over hoa's.
There was a little bit added last year to the
dvpr's jurisdiction over hoas, but really they don't have much
(29:37):
jurisdiction at all, and that's the primary reason they ignore hoa's.
I won't say ignore, but they don't act when it
comes to hoas because they can't.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Makes sense. Christian Orlando wants to know are there any
state funded programs to help condo owners with financial repairs.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
I'm not aware of any state funded programs for repairs.
I think there might be federal programs for repairs, but
I haven't frankly been involved in any of them. But
I know that there is a state funded program for
hurricane protection my I say Florida program. That money's all
gone for last year. I don't think they put out
(30:22):
money this year, but that money is still in existence,
and there's no way of knowing whether in the next
legislative session they're going to put more money out there
for communities to They call it hardening, which is basically
protecting the building from storms and winds and things of
that nature. So I'm not aware of any money that's
available specifically for repairs, but that's what loans are for
(30:45):
and special assessments are for.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Unfortunately, Yes, lou and Orlando, what kind of board do
when one hundred percent vote is required but owners don't
participate to vote yay or nay?
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Egg That's the reality. I mean, if you need one
hundred percent member vote and you can't get it, you
can't do the thing. I hate to be blunt about that,
but you know, there's there's no way around needing that vote. Now,
there are certain things. For example, you know, if your
condo is basically destroyed and dilapidated, getting that one hundred
(31:21):
percent member vote might not be required if you want
to terminate. But there's I can't even get into detail,
and I can't even think of something offhand that wouldn't
require you to just go out and get the vote.
And if you can't, you just can't do what you
want it to do. Sometimes now there are suggestions I
can make to get a larger percentage of the people
(31:44):
to come out and vote, like electronic voting and going
door to door and sending emails and things of that nature.
But I mean, the problem with a one hundred percent
member vote is if you've got one holdout or one
no vote, you're never going to succeed. You might luck
out and get a court to say, well, there's only
one person, they shouldn't be able to hold this back.
(32:06):
But there's significant risk that the court is just going
to say, well, the contract says on hundred percent or
the statute that applied at the time says one hundred percent,
so sorry, you're out of luck. I hate when I
can't give an easy answer that helps, but sometimes it's
just sorry.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
John in Winter Garden wants to know, what do you
think about a condo property management company not having the
financials for the last six months because they said they
lost an employee. The board thinks nothing of it. I
think there's a problem with that.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
I think there's a problem with not only the situation
but also the excuse. I mean, the almost every management
contract I've ever looked at requires the manager to maintain
financials on a monthly basis. If they haven't done that
for the last six months. Then not only are they
not complying potentially with their contract with the association, but
(33:04):
they're also potentially putting the association in jeopardy because you
don't know what your financials look like. You know, you
can't properly plan for the following months if you don't
have the last six months worth of what does our
money look like? Do we have the funds to do X,
Y Z. So you know, that's that's one of those
things that I would talk to your attorney about because unfortunately,
(33:25):
I mean listen, we we generally try and maintain a
friendly relationship with management firms, but there are some that
will make these errors and unfortunately, if if that happens,
you know, the best course of action might be to terminate,
get an audit and figure out, you know, what do
we need to do. And when I say terminate, I
mean look into terminating the contract with the management firm
(33:48):
if they're not willing to do what is necessary to
get your financials back in order.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Sherry and Sanford, Yeah, we get a lot of letters
from Sanford.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
It's a great area.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Love your show, enjoy listening to it every month.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
I'm a longtime listener. I want to know, is it
legal for two board members to consistently have meetings in
the president's home and vote off board members without a
quorum in the president's house.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
So the answer to whether it's okay to have these
meetings of two directors in the president's home depends how
many directors you've got in your community. If that's a
quorum of the directors and they're discussing or deciding on
association business the statute says conducting association business, then yeah,
that's problematic. If the board is voting off directors, that's
(34:49):
not something that they get to do. That's called a recall,
and it's done by the members. So unless your community
is comprised of three lots or units, chances are those
two people aren't author rise to do that on their own,
and that director who was voted excuse me, voted off,
so to speak, would potentially have a claim that they
should be put back on the board pending a recall
(35:11):
by the members, not by the board.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Ellen, do you get a lot of questions from your associations?
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (35:21):
About the website you do, Yes about websites don't matter,
doesn't matter what the questions are.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
The answer is yes, So yeah, about websites and what's
required to go on them and who's required to have one.
We get a lot of these questions. I mean, the
reality is, if you're using a qualified management firm that
knows what they're doing and is in this industry and
cares about, you know, what's going on, chances are their
management portal is already doing ninety nine percent of what
(35:51):
you need. It's just a matter of making sure that
those documents get uploaded properly. The only piece that management
firms may be missing that they can easily fix is
the requirement that all your agendas, meeting meeting notices, and
certain other documents that are going to be voted on
at those meetings either go directly on the front page
(36:12):
of a website or on a link that's on the
front page of that website. So those are the questions
we tend to get. What do we need to actually
put up on the website? And the statute's actually pretty
clear on this one, so you know, my answer to
that is always, here's a copy and paste of the statute.
I'll keep the fees to a minimum, but if you've
(36:33):
got specific questions, let me know what you think is
being done improperly or isn't being done at all. Now
as to who needs a website in an HOA, that's
going to be anyone that is governing one hundred lots
or more. In a condo. Right now, it's one hundred
and fifty lots or more. Starting in January of twenty
six that'll be twenty five units or more. So it's
(36:55):
going to be most people. And I wouldn't be surprised
if we see next year or in the following year that,
just like the condos, the number that you need to
have reduced that in hoas it goes from one hundred
down to twenty five lots as well, So I think
that covers most of it. But yes, we get plenty
of questions about websites, especially since the requirement for condos
(37:18):
and hoas are both relatively new. In condos, I think
it started where you had to have a website if
you were one hundred and fifty or more and twenty
nineteen and in hoas I think it was just last year.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Did they ever come up with any penalties? I know
there was ever penalties for not website. Are there penalties now?
Speaker 4 (37:40):
There might be, but none that I've ever heard of
a community having. In reality, part of that is that
the management firms are really helping communities and not having
to go out and get a separate vendor to create
these websites. The associations required to have a portal basically
from my perspective, and a front page. If management system
(38:00):
can allow for that front page to be created, or
it can be created through some other web portal that
leads back to the management portal, you don't really need
to do anything else. Where I see it being difficult
is with self managed communities who really did have to
go out and find a vendor to do this work,
and most of them knew that this was coming down
the pike and took care of it.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
We have Chuck here in Cocoa Beach and he talks
about our management website could be made better by a
first grader. I guess Chuck's happy with the website. He said,
we cannot find any documents or contracts or anything. What
do we do.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
Talk to the board about creating an independent website? In
that instance, I mean, I don't know what management firm
they're with, but most of them are fairly easy to navigate.
They're definitely not intended to be a fifty thousand dollars
website that you paid some crazy developer to create for you.
The purpose is just to provide the documents to the members,
(39:05):
and so, frankly, my perspective is if you've got it
set up like you know, Windows Explorer for the most part,
that's good enough for me. Right where you've just got
your file structure and here's the access, have a nice day.
That's literally all the statute requires, other than you know,
certain information being there, certain other information not being there,
(39:26):
and then having that front page and a separate logging
credential for each user. There's really not much else that
the statute requires. So yeah, first grader might have done
a better job, but the association might not be required
to do anymore than what they've already done.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Here's a guy that I guess he's got a condo
in both the Orlando area and the Tampa area. So
he wrote two separate emails he said, can a new
owner with dollar laundering conviction ten years ago from an
(40:03):
outside state joined the board of directors.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Okay, so he's really asking based on the restriction that
someone who's been convicted of a felony or something that
if it happened in Florida would have been a felony.
Can't serve on the board. So the ten years ago
is not relevant to me. What's relevant in statutory terms
is when did this person get their civil rights restored?
(40:29):
If it hasn't been five years. So if they were
in prison for five years, but it's been five years
since then and they had their civil rights restored, they
were let out of jail, they were you know, even
put on probation, is okay. But if their civil rights
were restored at least five years before the date that
they can last seek election, that's good enough. So the
(40:51):
answer might be yes, it might be no. It really
just depends on the circumstances we're talking about here. Was
this person released from prison and was there, you know,
where their civil rights restored? As the legal term at
least five years ago is really the only relevant factor here.
It's you know, you could have someone who murdered fifty people,
but if somehow they got out of prison five years ago,
(41:13):
they can probably still serve on your board.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Okay, honey, and Sanford again, must sir, We've never had
a question like this before. I can't must be a
daily log of pool chlorine and pH. We only have
fifty units and no maintenance staff, just a licensed pul service,
thank you.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
So the short answer is no, But the longer answer
is it really doesn't matter the size of your community.
That's not something that you're obligated to do other than
to the extent that you're tracking the safety of being
in that pool. So if you've got local requirements that
require you to measure that and make sure that the
pH stays within a certain range and things of that nature,
(41:58):
then you might be required to do that in order
for the poll to remain open. But it's not going
to be a you know, condo or hoa statute related issue.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Ron in Orlando, if the board breaches fiduciary responsibility relating
to a million things, I guess this guy's a little
upset he doesn't the board be taken to small claims.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
So the short answer is yes, But keep in mind
that breach of fiduciary duty is not by the board,
it's by the individual directors. So that doesn't mean you
can't be going after the entire board if you feel
that each one of them has breached their fiduciary duty,
including more than once. Keep in mind though, that if
you're talking about small claims court, there's a limit I
(42:46):
think it's now fifty thousand to what that small claims
court can actually consider. So you need to look up,
based on the dollars that you're looking to get back
out of that claim, will small claims court have jurisdiction
or do I need to go to the county or
even the circuit court in order to get that ruling
and have the court be able to rule that you're
(43:08):
entitled to this now. The other thing to keep in
mind when you're talking about a breach of fiduciary duty
two things. One, what you're saying is that the association
has a claim against these directors for breach of fiduciary duty.
If it's an individual claim, it needs to individually impact
you in some special way in order for you to
be entitled to any recovery at all. The other thing
(43:31):
to keep in mind is as soon as that claim
is brought, the first thing these directors are going to
do is submit a claim to the directors and officers'
liability insurance carrier for a determination of insurance coverage and
chances are your insurance rates are going to go up
and you're going to be paying everything unless there are
found in violation beyond what that policy covers or beyond
(43:53):
what the indemnification provisions in your governing documents allow the
association or recour why are the association to pay? So
what I'm saying is you're really suing the association, even
if you're suing the directors, because the association is the
one that's going to pay out for their defense.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
Larry and Orlando, and this is another website question, and
our management property manders stated to me that contracts do
not have to be on the website. They only need
to list the contracts.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
Is this correct statutorily? It's correct, and surprisingly enough that
came up during one of my meetings today. So the
statute requires a list of they call them executory contract
What that means is which ones are active. So you
don't have to have a list of every contract the
association ever entered into, but you do have to have
a list of which contracts exist. And I understand the question.
(44:50):
I understand the concern that's implied in the question, Well,
why don't we have to have all of those documents uploaded,
because some contracts, especially construct contracts and things of that nature,
there may be more than one hundred pages long, with
one hundred and fifty to two hundred pages of exhibits
if you use, for example, the AIA contract, which I
(45:10):
really don't like and you should probably shouldn't use. But
the reality is you're supposed to be able to use
the website to find the information you need. In this respect,
then you can perform a record's inspection request if you
really want a copy of any individual contracts themselves. So
the short answer is yes, the website requirement is generally only,
(45:32):
and I just looked at it for a nature way.
I think it's the same for a condo, But it's
only that you actually have the list of what contracts
are currently pending for the association.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
You just got a text in for Marvin. He said,
I always put away on my schedule your show each month.
I can't thank you enough for giving so much great information.
I really trust what you say. Oh my god, awan,
he said, do you what do you see AI coming
(46:08):
in to play for associations?
Speaker 4 (46:12):
So I see it in record keeping, I see it
in automating a lot of things that in reality is
where I see it playing apart. The other thing is
a lot of smart devices being used in community associations,
and we're already seeing some of that, but you know,
I can't even envision where it's going because personally, I
(46:35):
just started using chat GPT about two weeks ago, and
I don't really use it in my practice. I use
it primarily in things that are personal because I don't
want to give it any confidential client information, even when
it tells me that it's not going to train on
that information and share it with anyone else, I just
don't trust it yet. So unless we can create our own,
(46:56):
you know, firm wide and specific to the firm, our
own AI, I just I'm not trusting it yet. And
I think there are a lot of people that are
not necessarily like me, are not skeptical, and we can
see the uses for it, but I don't think it's
been I don't think it's been looked at closely enough
by people that are in this industry because frankly, the
(47:19):
community association industry overall can be very antiquated sometimes. So
I think as we start to see the things in homes,
in hotels in other areas being automated and using AI.
I think that's when you'll start to see about a
year or two after it starts to become almost commonplace,
(47:40):
that's when you'll start to see it being commonplace in
community associations.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
And our final question today is from a listener on
our chat line from Alberto. He wants to know good afternoon.
Florida's statute Florida State is seven eighteen prohibitsy use of
debit cards by condo association? Is it permissible for a
(48:08):
maintenance supervisor to use the association's credit card, not debit
for maintenance supply?
Speaker 4 (48:17):
So there is no law of governing credit cards with
respect to community associations in general, but condos and his
both now have a criminalized penalty if you use a
debit card that's either in the name of the association
or paid directly by the association, if you don't have
not only a meeting, but meeting minutes reflecting that this
(48:39):
expense has been approved or that it's directly listed in
the budget. So credit cards, I don't even care what
the circumstance is. There's nothing in chapter seventy eighteen, chapter
seven twenty or seven nineteen that talks about credit cards
at all. And frankly, that's actually what I'm recommending, or
at least suggesting, to all of our clients that have
(49:01):
been using debit cards for association business. Just switch over
to a credit card so you don't have to worry
about some frivolous criminal penalties being brought against you because
you bought something at home depot for the association and
you didn't get it approved at a board meeting in advance.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Well, as always, the show goes by so fast. Let's
tell people how they can reach cab into rimbom.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
Sure, so the firm as a whole can be reached
at nine five four nine to eight zero six eight zero,
or are one eight hundred number which is eight hundred
nine seven four zero six eight zero. That'll reach the
front desk. So you can reach any of our attorneys
or employees. And you can reach me directly either find
(49:47):
me on LinkedIn my name is right on the screen,
or at my email as at KBR legal dot com. Steve,
thanks so much. As usual, I appreciate it, And to
all who made those kind comments, I don't know how
much team's paying you, but I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
I just thought they are your relatives. Listen, we love you, bro.
We'll see you again next month, and we love having you.
We'll see you again next month, all right, looking forward
to it always. That's h Board certified. I love how
(50:24):
that sounds now, Board certified Attorney Alan swart Side, Hey
Ben to Rimbaum folks. Thanks so much. I can't tell
you how much we appreciate you taking the time to
write these letters. And I know there's a lot that
we didn't get to today. We'll save them for next month.
(50:47):
That'll do it for us today. We'll be back again
with you next week with more SC experts.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Thanks for tuningating today to the Ask the Experts show
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(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to the Ask the Experts Show on W four
CY Radio and Talk for TV, where we bring you
educational information from top local experts in the fields of legal, health,
financial and home improvement. Now sit back and listen to
experts in family law, association, law, hearing laws, business brokers,
(00:47):
home care, along with many other topics. Now here are
your hosts, Spevo and Sophia.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Hey, good afternoon, Orlando. Welcome to another FC expert show
where we bring you the top experts in the field
of legal, health, financial and home improvement. Hey, before we
start the show today, I got to give the little
love out. I have never written unlass. We've been with
W four c Y for the about the last two years.
(01:19):
And I just want to think our producer Wan, who
does our shows on Thursdays and Fridays, I don't ever
think I thank him enough. Every time I've got a problem.
He's always there for me and he's just a good guy.
So love out to my great producer. Now. Right before
(01:45):
the show, we were doing a little ro love before
the show, and I got to tell everybody because you know,
we get so many emails and text about our shows.
The Cave Bender Rimbaum shows, without a doubt get more
(02:07):
texts and letters than any of my thirty five shows,
actually more than the shows we've been doing for the
last fifteen years. But our expert today, Allen Attorney, Board
certified attorney. I will never leave that out Board certified attorney,
(02:28):
Alan Swartzeed. I got to tell you the letters that
come in about him are absolutely amazing, and first of all,
we want to thank you for taking the time just
to write a letter saying love the show, Love Alan.
He's been a great help to us. We actually have
(02:50):
people who listen to his show board members that it's
a requirement to listen to the show. I don't even
know if I've even shared that with Alan. I have
with the senior partner, Robert k. But there's actually board
members that it's a requirement that they listen to the show.
(03:15):
The people love Alan, welcome him to the show Board's
certified attorney. Alan swartseeed, you're gonna.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Make me blust her Steve.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Go for bro I gotta listen. You know what, when
you're good, you're good. I do so many shows. You know,
we do three a month with Hey Bender, but we
do thirty five shows a month. And the response that
we get for Kay Bender Rimbaum, and the response we
(03:52):
get for your show after fifteen years of Dilney's, I'm
just blown away. And you know, some of them are
even your clients, and they tell us what a great
job Ka been to Rimbaum that they do for them,
and they feel so lucky to have your firm. So
(04:15):
you know, why not share the love? Huh?
Speaker 4 (04:18):
All right? Well, I again, I appreciate that, and know
I was not aware that anyone had made listening to
our show's mandatory, but I think it's probably a good idea.
You know, you spend three hours every month paying attention
to current events in this community Association industry, because keep
in mind, you've got mostly people who are not experienced
(04:40):
in business that are on a lot of boards of
directors for condos, hoys and co ops in Florida, and
it's you know, there are plenty of people that are experienced,
and I think that's fantastic that they're willing to give
back and volunteer their time, just like we are here today.
But well, at least one of us is Steve. But
you know, I do think it's important that you know
(05:01):
that education piece is always very important to our firm,
and it's really great to hear that people take it
seriously because you know, you have your requirements and it
sounds really ominous and onerous that have to sit there
if you're in an hoa and do three to four hours,
you know, every couple of years, and do four to
eight hours a year. But even if you had to
(05:23):
do all that in a year, it's twelve hours out
of the entire year to make sure you're doing this right,
I think adding another three hours a month it sounds
like a lot, but again, you know that's that's three
nights where you spend an hour with people like me
and Steve think of but you know.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And you guys do so many different One of the
things you do is to your certification classes, and we
get a lot of emails people saying how much they
enjoyed the certification classes and what's amazing is there even
longer here, longer now than and that people still love them.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Well, I just did one with Kurston out in Tampa.
I don't remember if it was yesterday or the day before.
I mean, those things are brutal, man. I can't even
coach all four hours. I can't imagine people sitting through
and listening to all four hours. But that's part of
why we give the materials afterwards, so that people have
something to refer back to, because I mean, listen, I
get that that's what the legislature wants us to do.
(06:27):
I think in reality we could easily make it eight
to twelve hours and still not get through everything I'd
like all board members to know. But you know, at
least now, it's it's mandatory that people at least learn
a little bit about what they're supposed to know in
order to do this job properly. And while you're not
getting paid for it, it is a job.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
You know, you guys do I think it's called ask
a lawyer, ask an attorney. Yeah, ask an attorney. And
I've been to actually several of them that Robert and
Michael have done. And I'm actually sitting there in the
audience and the people come there and one of the
(07:08):
guys said, you know what, I only have a couple questions.
I kind of tell you that one hour presentation first
of all, turned into two hours because here's one person.
His two questions turned into eight questions, and people love
when you guys do that.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Ah, I will tell you. So we're planning some of
the upcoming seminars for July and August, and I always
plan to not schedule anything for at least a half
hour after that seminar is supposed to end, because I know, realistically, yes,
we're going to go through the information, but there are
going to be more questions because we explain things that,
(07:50):
as you've mentioned to me in the past, we explain
it in plain English. But it leads people, instead of
being confused, to just have more questions that they want
answered so that they can understand better. And I think
that you know, it's it's difficult for a lot of
attorneys to explain things in plain English, especially those that
do a ton of litigation like I have in the past.
(08:11):
I'm very fortunate that the firm doesn't want me doing
that right now. But you know, I spent fifteen years
in the courtrooms, and you have to explain things very
differently for a judge than the way that you would
explain it to a client. And I think that that's
one thing that our litigation team does really well. But
it's something I've learned to do, is speak in plain English.
But and I was speaking with someone about this just today.
(08:33):
One of the clients that I met with said, you know,
you really make it understandable without making me feel like
an idiot the way that I'm asking the question. And
I think that's a skill that almost I certainly won't
say it's more important than being able to give the
correct answer, but it's almost equally important that you know,
it's more important that people understand the answer, especially if
(08:56):
they're going to try and use the information you're giving
that to formulate an opinion. And a lot of times
you're not telling the board what to do as an attorney,
you're telling the board, here's what could happen if you
don't do it right.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Well, here's something else. I don't know if you're going
to be shocked this or not, but we do the
show all across the country, so we we're probably maybe
twenty five thirty cities, and I got to tell you
that community association law is becoming bigger and bigger. But
(09:35):
here's the problem that these associations need to beware of.
There's a lot of law firms out there who are
just sticking up on their shingle. They specialize in community
association law, which they maybe have done one or two cases.
(09:57):
This is all Hey Rimbaum does.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Yeah, I mean at KBR, this is literally all we do,
you know, we and ninety percent of the time, I'll
be candid, we're representing the association, if not more than
ninety percent of the time. Right. But again, you know,
this is not something that we dabble in, and frankly,
because it's so specific and so statutorially and case law driven.
(10:24):
It's not just read through the documents and you've got
your contractual answer. In this area of law, it's truly
a if you're not knowledgeable about what to look for.
You know, I've I've heard other people make the comment
you don't know what you don't know, and that makes
it dangerous. And that's what I tend to see happen,
(10:44):
and I think most people in this industry tend to
see happen when you deal with a dabbler. You know,
we don't We do the work and it's all we do.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Well. I want people to be aware of that, that
it's so important that you go with a firm like
hey Ben to Rimbaum Firm, that this is all they've done.
How many years has Cave been to Rimbaum from.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
The early nineties. I think it's over thirty years.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Wow. Well, I got to tell you what we do here.
If you just tuned in for the first time, we
get so many questions from you, our listeners, and our viewers,
and we compile those questions up and there's no way
we could get them all in. And we also.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Take questions a five hour show Steve, Yeah right, no kidding,
And we also take questions on our YouTube.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Here's the deal. I know we're going to get questions
today about the new laws. We're not going to handle
those today. We're going to wait till next month because
that was just signed off on by the governor. But
I see our first question up there, Alan, Okay, from Todd,
one assessment was done that included lined items Electrical upgrade
(12:09):
structured ELSs. Is that considered one assessment where we can
a lot money from our own budgeted item to be
under budget to an under budgeted item.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Well, if you don't use the full amount, for example,
somehow you get a deal or it doesn't take as
much work for the vendor to do the work that
that special assessment was supposed to pay for, then the
short answer is, yeah, that becomes pretty much operating funds.
Some communities will demand and when I say communities, I
really mean the owners will say you didn't use all
that money, you need to give it back. Well, no,
(12:46):
you don't.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
You know.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
The reality is that becomes operating funds of the association.
If you know that that project will come up again,
you can kind of make that an unofficial reserve, but
nothing says that the association must do that. It's really
those are operating funds going forward. So the short answer
to your question, I think Todd was the name. The
short answer Todd is yeah, you can use that for
(13:08):
whatever you want as long as that project is complete
and you've used as much of that special assessment as
needed to complete that project. If you're still if you
still have that project ongoing, then I would keep that
money for its intended purpose, because otherwise then an owner
might have a problem and might have a valid claim.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Let's go to Carl in Orlando. At what point does
your email become part of the condo records and become
public when you registered with the association or just by
sending an email to the association.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
So that's still kind of up for debate. And the
reason I say that is because there's nothing in the
statute that clarifies whether those emails qualify as official records
and when the statute basically says and this applies to
condo's co ops nhoas So when I say the statute,
I really mean all three individual statutes. They all say
(14:06):
that the written records of the Association are the official records,
and those are written records pertaining to the business of
the association. That could be pretty much anything. The question
is whether an email is a written record or it's
an electronic record that's not written. My opinion has always
been that once that email is printed, it's clearly a
(14:27):
written record. But there is question and frankly DBPR, which
is the government entity that rules on these types of issues,
they've gone in both directions. There's no court case law
deciding when an email becomes an official record. My perspective
is if it's been printed, if it's been shared outside
(14:48):
of the board and management, it probably is an official
record of the association. So if it went out, meaning
it's an outward going email, if it came in from
someone other than the management firm and the board between
each other, that probably will qualify as an official record.
But again, it could be every email, even internal to
(15:10):
the board, with the exception being obviously if it's for
potential litigation or at the direction of council, you've then
got a potential privilege issue that makes it an official
record but still exempt from being produced to the members.
So that's a lot of words to say. The law
make it clear. Do you think it will ever get
tied down?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Though?
Speaker 4 (15:28):
I think eventually it will when someone gets fed up
enough that they say we need these emails, and someone
decides to appeal a decision either of the arbitrators of
the DBPR or of a court up to a higher level,
and then we'll have case law that's on point. But
a decision by a county court or by a circuit
court within the state law system, that's not going to
(15:52):
be It's not going to be a decision that you
need to rely on. I'm trying not to use legal
terminology and put it in plain English, but that that
wouldn't be something that every court then needs to follow
until it hits the appellate level, which hasn't happened yet
to my knowledge.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
I got to tell you, we just got a text
in from Christy and Orlando. I am on the board
of my association. We actually use cavee Nder Rimbomb and
we had another firm before them, and that's why we
have cave Bender Rimbom now and they are without a
(16:36):
doubt the best. We love your show. We listen to
it all the time. Please, people, if you're looking for
I know you had to have a relative right.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
This if you're nothing to do with this one. I
didn't even know what was coming.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
That is really sweet. Thank you, Christian, Thank you very much. Yeah, really,
let's go to Trey in Orlando. Our KINDOSGOVERNMDOC were filed
in two thousand and two without Kaufman language. Okay, if
we revise them in two thousand and twenty five without
Koffman language, well, two thousand and two or twenty twenty
(17:14):
five a law apply to us.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
So if you're going to add that Kaufman language to
the declaration, and for those listening who haven't heard us
talk about this eight thousand times, yes, language is that
language that you might have in your governing documents that
incorporates the Condominium Act, Chapter seventy eighteen of the Florida Statutes.
And here's the important part, as amended from time to time.
So it's it's that as amended from time to time
(17:39):
language that's important. And it needs to specifically refer directly
to the statute or the Condo Act in order for
what we're saying right now to apply. Usually procedural changes
in the statute, these amendments that the legislature makes every
year and kicks us around and kicks the can down
the road as to what we're required to do and
(18:02):
not required to do. Those statutory amendments. If they are
procedural in nature, meaning how you go about doing something,
those will all apply regardless of whether you've got this
language and your declaration. But if it's a substantive right
of the association or the owners. Meaning you're not allowed
to enforce XYZ anymore in a Florida condominium. That's a
(18:23):
substantive right. Okay, if you've got covenants, rules, and regulations
and the legislature says you can't have those anymore, and
if you have them, you can't enforce them. If the
legislature does this, and you have Kaufman language, that statute
will apply. If you don't have language in the declaration
that says this, then generally speaking, the statute that was
(18:44):
in place as of the date that declaration was recorded
is the one that is relevant to the legal analysis.
That's a lot of words. I'm going to move on
to the actual answer to the question. Now, if you
made that change and you amended your declaration in twenty
twenty five, my opinion is every statutory revision that's been
in place before twenty twenty five will apply to your association,
(19:07):
and so will all of the ones that apply going forward.
So every statutory amendment will now apply to the association.
So the question of what statute applies, well, the newest
one is really the answer. Once you make that amendment,
I would recommend against it because we've seen some things
that the legislature has done that don't make me very
happy about representing associations and having my clients have to
(19:31):
deal with certain issues that, in my opinion, they shouldn't.
Especially some of the changes to the HOA Statute over
the last year I've considered pretty I'll call it draconian,
but it's draconian against the association. Instead of protecting the
interests of the owners, it's protecting the interests of individual
owners instead of the community as a whole. So again,
(19:53):
short answer, if you put that amendment in place, now
every statutory amendment across the board will apply your condo.
So again, for that reason, I don't recommend it, but
it is something that the board can consider and if
the members approve it, have at it. It's all yours, Alan.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
We're going to take our first break. When we come back,
we're going to go over your schedule. Tell people how
they can reach your office.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
So the easiest way to reach me is by email.
My emails right up on the screen right here if
you're just listening. It's as as an Alan schwartzide at
kbar legal dot com. The other way to reaching the
office you can call us at nine five four nine
two eight zero six eight zero. That'll reach any of
our offices. That's the front desk in Pompino, and we
(20:46):
do have four offices for those that don't know us,
Pompino Beach, Palm Beach Gardens, my office here in Winter Springs,
which is in Orlando area, and another office in Tampa
also Miami. By appointment. Twenty three attorneys, eight board certified
community association law, including myself, one board certified in construction law. Again,
pretty much anything in community association needs we can handle.
(21:10):
But we're not looking to take you away from your
council if you're happy. So, as Christy mentioned, some people
are not happy with their current counsel. Those are the
ones that want to reach out to me, and I'd
be happy to talk to you about how we might
be able to help your community operate a little better.
But if you're happy where you're at, stay there, no
problem at all.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Okay, we're going to go to break. When we come back,
we're going to go over the seminars and classes that
you've got coming up. Will be right back on.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
Cave vendor Rembaum is a full service community association law
firm dedicated to the representation of community associations throughout Florida.
On kbrlegal dot com you can learn more about their
offices and pump O Beeach Palm Beach Gardens, Orlando, Tampa,
as well as throughout Miami Dade by appointment. Several k
(22:08):
Bender Rembam attorneys are board certified specialists in condominium and
plan development law and assist clients with all matters of
community association legal issues while keeping them up to date
on new developments that affect their associations. K Benda Rembaum
is also a well known provider of free legal education
for managers and board members. Contact Kbende Rembaum today by
(22:31):
calling eight hundred nine seven four zero six eight zero.
That's eight hundred nine seven four zero six eight zero
to reach any of their locations. You can also visit
them online at KBR legal dot com or write to
them at info at KBR legal dot com.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
And we are backed with the Astexpert Show on W
FOURCY Radio and Talk for TV with your hosts Sphedo,
Sophia and their expert guests.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
And we are back. We are here with board certified
attorney Allen Swartside. He is with the cave Bender rimbaumb
he manages their office in Orlando, the Orlando office, and
we started talking about beginning to show all the classes,
(23:24):
the seminars, the free seminars that cave Beender Rimbaum put
on every month. And boy, I tell you, Allen, it's
like you've got a busy month and starting the end
of this month and going into July. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Well, I mean the good news is these aren't all
me but we do have a lot of them coming up. Monday.
Next Monday at two pm, I'm going to be speaking
with Jeff Embaum regarding association insurance requirements. We've got association
leadership coming up July ninth at noon. Tenth is the
Educate to Elevate expo for Castle Group in Broward. The
(24:04):
one in Palm Beach is July sixteenth. July twenty fourth
at eleven am. We've got a board certification class for
HOA directors. July twenty ninth at eleven am. I will
be joining my relatively new colleague Chuck Nix in my office.
This will be a webinar for updating your governing documents.
(24:25):
He'll be going through some of the generic Here's what
our materials are and then I like to add my
top twenty amendments that I think every community association board
should be considering to try and make your community operate
a little better. So you know, that's as usual our
list of six seven items we've got, but I think
we'll probably end up closer to fifteen twenty by the
(24:47):
end of the month. We're also working on the schedule
for August, but we can talk about that at the
end of next month.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Okay, you know, I know we got the email from
Maadi which I have down here, talked about what happens
if you're elected to your board and you haven't gotten
certified yet. How long do you have? So you might
as well answer that one now, sure, So.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
That is a condo co op hoa all the same,
You've got ninety days from the date you were elected
to complete that class. If you don't, sorry, but you're
off the board. It's not a board decision. It's a suspension,
to be clear. Okay, you're not off permanently, You're off
until you actually complete that requirement, which the requirement is
(25:34):
not just taking the class, it's making sure that that
certificate reaches the secretary or your community association manager and
gets into the official records. That's when you get back
on the board can basically sit there and say, well,
John didn't do what he was supposed to do in time,
so we're going to go ahead and appoint someone else
to take his spot until he takes care of this requirement.
(25:55):
Now we've got both classes almost every month HOA and
condos slash co op. I know I've got a. We've
got the HOA coming up next month, at least once.
I'm sure we'll end up with a condo and possibly
another HOA. So you know, it should not be that difficult.
If you go on our website at KBR legal dot com,
(26:18):
click on the calendar link, you can register for any
one of these webinars for free and take it online.
I don't care if you take it in your underwear
with a drink in your hand. The reality is it
shouldn't be that difficult to get this done. I understand
a lot of people work. We try and do them
during the day just so that people that you know
are Frankly, I expect a lot of people to be
(26:38):
sitting there and listening in the background of whatever they're doing.
But the reality is we're giving you the opportunity to
do this for free online and not have to worry
about anything. So if you're not willing to do it
within ninety days after being elected, my thought process has
been for some time, maybe you don't need to be
a director of an HOA, a condo or a co
op because maybe you don't care enough to put that
(27:01):
three to four hours into it to learn what you
need to learn in order to know the absolute basics
of being a director.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
We just got a text from Ron he wants to
know him thinking about running for the board. What I
know you can't go into great detail, but what's involved
in the certification classes.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
So they're different for condo slash co op versus HOA.
They go into budgets, elections, collection of assessments, covenant enforcement
and violations. I mean, there is a statutory list of
what these classes need to include. It's very similar from
(27:46):
condo to HOA. The major change between the two is
that the condo co op one is going to deal
with milestone inspection reports, structural integrity, reserve studies and that's frankly,
that's an entire set action of the four that we
teach for condo because the legislature considers it's so important.
So that's the major change between one and the other.
(28:08):
But again it's as I mentioned a minute ago, it's
primarily here are the absolute basics of how to be
a director and not completely screw this up. And the
most important thing that we teach during that class is
the fiduciary duty, which is the responsibility of every director
to do what's in the best interest of the association,
even if they don't like it or even if it
(28:30):
hurts them. So it's learning. Basically, the goal of this
class is to teach you how to make business decisions
rather than making emotional decisions or making decisions on what
you think is best for you.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Ronnie and Sanford wants to know why will the dB RP,
which we just talked about, not get involved with choa's.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
So the DVPR generally doesn't get involved in hoa's because
they have no jurisdiction over hoa's. There are certain issues
with an HOA that they do have the authority to
step in, but usually it's going to be primarily with
management company issues and not the association itself. The distinction
there is that in condo Land, they do have that authority,
(29:15):
so they just don't have the authority to step in
on very many HOA issues at all. There was a
push in this legislative session to change that so that
they're governing and doing the same arbitration and governance over hoa's.
There was a little bit added last year to the
dvpr's jurisdiction over hoas, but really they don't have much
(29:37):
jurisdiction at all, and that's the primary reason they ignore hoa's.
I won't say ignore, but they don't act when it
comes to hoas because they can't.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Makes sense. Christian Orlando wants to know are there any
state funded programs to help condo owners with financial repairs.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
I'm not aware of any state funded programs for repairs.
I think there might be federal programs for repairs, but
I haven't frankly been involved in any of them. But
I know that there is a state funded program for
hurricane protection my I say Florida program. That money's all
gone for last year. I don't think they put out
(30:22):
money this year, but that money is still in existence,
and there's no way of knowing whether in the next
legislative session they're going to put more money out there
for communities to They call it hardening, which is basically
protecting the building from storms and winds and things of
that nature. So I'm not aware of any money that's
available specifically for repairs, but that's what loans are for
(30:45):
and special assessments are for.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Unfortunately, Yes, lou and Orlando, what kind of board do
when one hundred percent vote is required but owners don't
participate to vote yay or nay?
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Egg That's the reality. I mean, if you need one
hundred percent member vote and you can't get it, you
can't do the thing. I hate to be blunt about that,
but you know, there's there's no way around needing that vote. Now,
there are certain things. For example, you know, if your
condo is basically destroyed and dilapidated, getting that one hundred
(31:21):
percent member vote might not be required if you want
to terminate. But there's I can't even get into detail,
and I can't even think of something offhand that wouldn't
require you to just go out and get the vote.
And if you can't, you just can't do what you
want it to do. Sometimes now there are suggestions I
can make to get a larger percentage of the people
(31:44):
to come out and vote, like electronic voting and going
door to door and sending emails and things of that nature.
But I mean, the problem with a one hundred percent
member vote is if you've got one holdout or one
no vote, you're never going to succeed. You might luck
out and get a court to say, well, there's only
one person, they shouldn't be able to hold this back.
(32:06):
But there's significant risk that the court is just going
to say, well, the contract says on hundred percent or
the statute that applied at the time says one hundred percent,
so sorry, you're out of luck. I hate when I
can't give an easy answer that helps, but sometimes it's
just sorry.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
John in Winter Garden wants to know, what do you
think about a condo property management company not having the
financials for the last six months because they said they
lost an employee. The board thinks nothing of it. I
think there's a problem with that.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
I think there's a problem with not only the situation
but also the excuse. I mean, the almost every management
contract I've ever looked at requires the manager to maintain
financials on a monthly basis. If they haven't done that
for the last six months. Then not only are they
not complying potentially with their contract with the association, but
(33:04):
they're also potentially putting the association in jeopardy because you
don't know what your financials look like. You know, you
can't properly plan for the following months if you don't
have the last six months worth of what does our
money look like? Do we have the funds to do X,
Y Z. So you know, that's that's one of those
things that I would talk to your attorney about because unfortunately,
(33:25):
I mean listen, we we generally try and maintain a
friendly relationship with management firms, but there are some that
will make these errors and unfortunately, if if that happens,
you know, the best course of action might be to terminate,
get an audit and figure out, you know, what do
we need to do. And when I say terminate, I
mean look into terminating the contract with the management firm
(33:48):
if they're not willing to do what is necessary to
get your financials back in order.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Sherry and Sanford, Yeah, we get a lot of letters
from Sanford.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
It's a great area.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Love your show, enjoy listening to it every month.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
I'm a longtime listener. I want to know, is it
legal for two board members to consistently have meetings in
the president's home and vote off board members without a
quorum in the president's house.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
So the answer to whether it's okay to have these
meetings of two directors in the president's home depends how
many directors you've got in your community. If that's a
quorum of the directors and they're discussing or deciding on
association business the statute says conducting association business, then yeah,
that's problematic. If the board is voting off directors, that's
(34:49):
not something that they get to do. That's called a recall,
and it's done by the members. So unless your community
is comprised of three lots or units, chances are those
two people aren't author rise to do that on their own,
and that director who was voted excuse me, voted off,
so to speak, would potentially have a claim that they
should be put back on the board pending a recall
(35:11):
by the members, not by the board.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Ellen, do you get a lot of questions from your associations?
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (35:21):
About the website you do, Yes about websites don't matter,
doesn't matter what the questions are.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
The answer is yes, So yeah, about websites and what's
required to go on them and who's required to have one.
We get a lot of these questions. I mean, the
reality is, if you're using a qualified management firm that
knows what they're doing and is in this industry and
cares about, you know, what's going on, chances are their
management portal is already doing ninety nine percent of what
(35:51):
you need. It's just a matter of making sure that
those documents get uploaded properly. The only piece that management
firms may be missing that they can easily fix is
the requirement that all your agendas, meeting meeting notices, and
certain other documents that are going to be voted on
at those meetings either go directly on the front page
(36:12):
of a website or on a link that's on the
front page of that website. So those are the questions
we tend to get. What do we need to actually
put up on the website? And the statute's actually pretty
clear on this one, so you know, my answer to
that is always, here's a copy and paste of the statute.
I'll keep the fees to a minimum, but if you've
(36:33):
got specific questions, let me know what you think is
being done improperly or isn't being done at all. Now
as to who needs a website in an HOA, that's
going to be anyone that is governing one hundred lots
or more. In a condo. Right now, it's one hundred
and fifty lots or more. Starting in January of twenty
six that'll be twenty five units or more. So it's
(36:55):
going to be most people. And I wouldn't be surprised
if we see next year or in the following year that,
just like the condos, the number that you need to
have reduced that in hoas it goes from one hundred
down to twenty five lots as well, So I think
that covers most of it. But yes, we get plenty
of questions about websites, especially since the requirement for condos
(37:18):
and hoas are both relatively new. In condos, I think
it started where you had to have a website if
you were one hundred and fifty or more and twenty
nineteen and in hoas I think it was just last year.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Did they ever come up with any penalties? I know
there was ever penalties for not website. Are there penalties now?
Speaker 4 (37:40):
There might be, but none that I've ever heard of
a community having. In reality, part of that is that
the management firms are really helping communities and not having
to go out and get a separate vendor to create
these websites. The associations required to have a portal basically
from my perspective, and a front page. If management system
(38:00):
can allow for that front page to be created, or
it can be created through some other web portal that
leads back to the management portal, you don't really need
to do anything else. Where I see it being difficult
is with self managed communities who really did have to
go out and find a vendor to do this work,
and most of them knew that this was coming down
the pike and took care of it.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
We have Chuck here in Cocoa Beach and he talks
about our management website could be made better by a
first grader. I guess Chuck's happy with the website. He said,
we cannot find any documents or contracts or anything. What
do we do.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
Talk to the board about creating an independent website? In
that instance, I mean, I don't know what management firm
they're with, but most of them are fairly easy to navigate.
They're definitely not intended to be a fifty thousand dollars
website that you paid some crazy developer to create for you.
The purpose is just to provide the documents to the members,
(39:05):
and so, frankly, my perspective is if you've got it
set up like you know, Windows Explorer for the most part,
that's good enough for me. Right where you've just got
your file structure and here's the access, have a nice day.
That's literally all the statute requires, other than you know,
certain information being there, certain other information not being there,
(39:26):
and then having that front page and a separate logging
credential for each user. There's really not much else that
the statute requires. So yeah, first grader might have done
a better job, but the association might not be required
to do anymore than what they've already done.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Here's a guy that I guess he's got a condo
in both the Orlando area and the Tampa area. So
he wrote two separate emails he said, can a new
owner with dollar laundering conviction ten years ago from an
(40:03):
outside state joined the board of directors.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Okay, so he's really asking based on the restriction that
someone who's been convicted of a felony or something that
if it happened in Florida would have been a felony.
Can't serve on the board. So the ten years ago
is not relevant to me. What's relevant in statutory terms
is when did this person get their civil rights restored?
(40:29):
If it hasn't been five years. So if they were
in prison for five years, but it's been five years
since then and they had their civil rights restored, they
were let out of jail, they were you know, even
put on probation, is okay. But if their civil rights
were restored at least five years before the date that
they can last seek election, that's good enough. So the
(40:51):
answer might be yes, it might be no. It really
just depends on the circumstances we're talking about here. Was
this person released from prison and was there, you know,
where their civil rights restored? As the legal term at
least five years ago is really the only relevant factor here.
It's you know, you could have someone who murdered fifty people,
but if somehow they got out of prison five years ago,
(41:13):
they can probably still serve on your board.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Okay, honey, and Sanford again, must sir, We've never had
a question like this before. I can't must be a
daily log of pool chlorine and pH. We only have
fifty units and no maintenance staff, just a licensed pul service,
thank you.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
So the short answer is no, But the longer answer
is it really doesn't matter the size of your community.
That's not something that you're obligated to do other than
to the extent that you're tracking the safety of being
in that pool. So if you've got local requirements that
require you to measure that and make sure that the
pH stays within a certain range and things of that nature,
(41:58):
then you might be required to do that in order
for the poll to remain open. But it's not going
to be a you know, condo or hoa statute related issue.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Ron in Orlando, if the board breaches fiduciary responsibility relating
to a million things, I guess this guy's a little
upset he doesn't the board be taken to small claims.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
So the short answer is yes, But keep in mind
that breach of fiduciary duty is not by the board,
it's by the individual directors. So that doesn't mean you
can't be going after the entire board if you feel
that each one of them has breached their fiduciary duty,
including more than once. Keep in mind though, that if
you're talking about small claims court, there's a limit I
(42:46):
think it's now fifty thousand to what that small claims
court can actually consider. So you need to look up,
based on the dollars that you're looking to get back
out of that claim, will small claims court have jurisdiction
or do I need to go to the county or
even the circuit court in order to get that ruling
and have the court be able to rule that you're
(43:08):
entitled to this now. The other thing to keep in
mind when you're talking about a breach of fiduciary duty
two things. One, what you're saying is that the association
has a claim against these directors for breach of fiduciary duty.
If it's an individual claim, it needs to individually impact
you in some special way in order for you to
be entitled to any recovery at all. The other thing
(43:31):
to keep in mind is as soon as that claim
is brought, the first thing these directors are going to
do is submit a claim to the directors and officers'
liability insurance carrier for a determination of insurance coverage and
chances are your insurance rates are going to go up
and you're going to be paying everything unless there are
found in violation beyond what that policy covers or beyond
(43:53):
what the indemnification provisions in your governing documents allow the
association or recour why are the association to pay? So
what I'm saying is you're really suing the association, even
if you're suing the directors, because the association is the
one that's going to pay out for their defense.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
Larry and Orlando, and this is another website question, and
our management property manders stated to me that contracts do
not have to be on the website. They only need
to list the contracts.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
Is this correct statutorily? It's correct, and surprisingly enough that
came up during one of my meetings today. So the
statute requires a list of they call them executory contract
What that means is which ones are active. So you
don't have to have a list of every contract the
association ever entered into, but you do have to have
a list of which contracts exist. And I understand the question.
(44:50):
I understand the concern that's implied in the question, Well,
why don't we have to have all of those documents uploaded,
because some contracts, especially construct contracts and things of that nature,
there may be more than one hundred pages long, with
one hundred and fifty to two hundred pages of exhibits
if you use, for example, the AIA contract, which I
(45:10):
really don't like and you should probably shouldn't use. But
the reality is you're supposed to be able to use
the website to find the information you need. In this respect,
then you can perform a record's inspection request if you
really want a copy of any individual contracts themselves. So
the short answer is yes, the website requirement is generally only,
(45:32):
and I just looked at it for a nature way.
I think it's the same for a condo, But it's
only that you actually have the list of what contracts
are currently pending for the association.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
You just got a text in for Marvin. He said,
I always put away on my schedule your show each month.
I can't thank you enough for giving so much great information.
I really trust what you say. Oh my god, awan,
he said, do you what do you see AI coming
(46:08):
in to play for associations?
Speaker 4 (46:12):
So I see it in record keeping, I see it
in automating a lot of things that in reality is
where I see it playing apart. The other thing is
a lot of smart devices being used in community associations,
and we're already seeing some of that, but you know,
I can't even envision where it's going because personally, I
(46:35):
just started using chat GPT about two weeks ago, and
I don't really use it in my practice. I use
it primarily in things that are personal because I don't
want to give it any confidential client information, even when
it tells me that it's not going to train on
that information and share it with anyone else, I just
don't trust it yet. So unless we can create our own,
(46:56):
you know, firm wide and specific to the firm, our
own AI, I just I'm not trusting it yet. And
I think there are a lot of people that are
not necessarily like me, are not skeptical, and we can
see the uses for it, but I don't think it's
been I don't think it's been looked at closely enough
by people that are in this industry because frankly, the
(47:19):
community association industry overall can be very antiquated sometimes. So
I think as we start to see the things in homes,
in hotels in other areas being automated and using AI.
I think that's when you'll start to see about a
year or two after it starts to become almost commonplace,
(47:40):
that's when you'll start to see it being commonplace in
community associations.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
And our final question today is from a listener on
our chat line from Alberto. He wants to know good afternoon.
Florida's statute Florida State is seven eighteen prohibitsy use of
debit cards by condo association? Is it permissible for a
(48:08):
maintenance supervisor to use the association's credit card, not debit
for maintenance supply?
Speaker 4 (48:17):
So there is no law of governing credit cards with
respect to community associations in general, but condos and his
both now have a criminalized penalty if you use a
debit card that's either in the name of the association
or paid directly by the association, if you don't have
not only a meeting, but meeting minutes reflecting that this
(48:39):
expense has been approved or that it's directly listed in
the budget. So credit cards, I don't even care what
the circumstance is. There's nothing in chapter seventy eighteen, chapter
seven twenty or seven nineteen that talks about credit cards
at all. And frankly, that's actually what I'm recommending, or
at least suggesting, to all of our clients that have
(49:01):
been using debit cards for association business. Just switch over
to a credit card so you don't have to worry
about some frivolous criminal penalties being brought against you because
you bought something at home depot for the association and
you didn't get it approved at a board meeting in advance.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Well, as always, the show goes by so fast. Let's
tell people how they can reach cab into rimbom.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
Sure, so the firm as a whole can be reached
at nine five four nine to eight zero six eight zero,
or are one eight hundred number which is eight hundred
nine seven four zero six eight zero. That'll reach the
front desk. So you can reach any of our attorneys
or employees. And you can reach me directly either find
(49:47):
me on LinkedIn my name is right on the screen,
or at my email as at KBR legal dot com. Steve,
thanks so much. As usual, I appreciate it, And to
all who made those kind comments, I don't know how
much team's paying you, but I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
I just thought they are your relatives. Listen, we love you, bro.
We'll see you again next month, and we love having you.
We'll see you again next month, all right, looking forward
to it always. That's h Board certified. I love how
(50:24):
that sounds now, Board certified Attorney Alan swart Side, Hey
Ben to Rimbaum folks. Thanks so much. I can't tell
you how much we appreciate you taking the time to
write these letters. And I know there's a lot that
we didn't get to today. We'll save them for next month.
(50:47):
That'll do it for us today. We'll be back again
with you next week with more SC experts.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Thanks for tuningating today to the Ask the Experts show
on W four C buy Radio and Talk for TV.
To the in next week and every week to hear
more from our experts on personal injury, insurance, air condition repairs,
estate planning, medicare, and many other topics in the areas
of legal, health, financial and home improvement. See you next week.
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