November 14, 2024 • 28 mins
Embracing the Opportunity to Write a Book
Want a step-by-step roadmap to make your book a success? Grab my FREE Book Planning Guide! here: http://authornation.online/planning
Host Melody Ann dives into the world of publishing with special guest Amanda Turner, also known as A.K. Turner. Amanda is a New York Times bestselling author and screenwriter. They explore the different paths to publishing success, offering essential tips to you as an aspiring author. Whether you're dreaming of self-publishing or aiming for a traditional deal, tune in for expert advice on choosing the right path and defining success as an author.
Key Takeaways from Embracing the Opportunity to Write a Book:
Want a step-by-step roadmap to make your book a success? Grab my FREE Book Planning Guide! here: http://authornation.online/planning
Host Melody Ann dives into the world of publishing with special guest Amanda Turner, also known as A.K. Turner. Amanda is a New York Times bestselling author and screenwriter. They explore the different paths to publishing success, offering essential tips to you as an aspiring author. Whether you're dreaming of self-publishing or aiming for a traditional deal, tune in for expert advice on choosing the right path and defining success as an author.
Key Takeaways from Embracing the Opportunity to Write a Book:
- Understand the differences between traditional and indie publishing, including the role of agents and small presses.
- Set realistic goals based on your project, control preferences, and career ambitions.
- Build a connection with readers as your measure of success, focusing on one reader at a time.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello, and welcome to author Nation. I hope everyone is
doing really well today. So I am melody An, your host,
and today we are diving into publishing success. We're going
to be exploring indie publishing and traditionally publishing, and agents
and bestseller lists and more because we are here to
(00:31):
guide you towards actionable insights. It's great to listen, it's
way better to actually have something you can take action with.
So that's what we are doing today. Because here an Authoration,
we're committed to your success. You can go to authoration
dot online to find resources for wherever you happen to
be right now. So whether you're sipping your morning coffee
or winding down after a long day, settle in as
(00:53):
we explore publishing choices to help you succeed as a
nonfiction author. I'd like to introduce my guest, Amanda Turner,
who also writes as ak. Turner is the New York
Times best selling author of ten books, including How to
Be Awkward, This Little Piggy Went to the Liquor Store
(01:14):
and Vagabonding with Kids series. She is also the award
winning screenwriter of Product of the System, The Christopher Sharp Story.
It is a true story of a gay foster youth
who survived abuse, trafficking, and homelessness. Expect eventually testifying on
behalf of foster children against Greg Abbott and the State
(01:37):
of Texas in a landmark case. Let's welcome Amanda Turner.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Hi, Amanda, Hello, it's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, I'm so excited you're here. And you just have
this fascinating mix of you know, humor, writing, travel memoirs,
a screenplay, which is a very serious topic. So could
you tell tell me kind of what drew you to
writing and how you developed this diverse body of work.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
So my father was a writer. He was a very
successful nonfiction author. He wrote the two you might have
heard of, Midnight Express and Not Without my Daughter, and
he has since passed on. But I grew up I think,
with more of a knowledge of what it was to
be a writer than most kids. Like when you're a kid,
(02:29):
you know, books just appear on the shelf, books just
exist in the library. And I could sort of see
one from day one. I could see that creative process,
and so it was just more on my radar. I
think I knew that that that writers were a thing,
that they were these creators of these magical things called books,
(02:50):
and so I was always intrigued by it. Wrote stories
from a very young age. In terms of the diverse
of my work, I think I'm a big proponent of
just going going where you are led, like being open
to different forms, different genre, different topics.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
You know, just just be open. I never want to.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Pigeonhole myself as like, oh, I'm a humor writer, I
can only do this, or you know, there's so much
to learn and so much to explore in the world
of writing.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
So I just always want to be open to that.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, brilliant. I love that.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
And I have to say, when I saw the title
this Little Bingu went to the liquor Store, it reminded
me of a story when I was getting one of
my children ready for school one day and I was
in a huge rush and I just like threw everything
together and sent her.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Out the door. And when I picked up from school
and she.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Handed me this paper bag lunch that I'd thrown together,
it was a liquor store bag.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Whoops, Whoopsie.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I was the mom who said the kid to the
to school with a luncheon a liquor store bag. So
when you when I read this book, went of the
liquor store just it really resonated with me. So great title.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Every now and then people are like, oh, is it
a children's book, and I said, no, it.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Is not exactly, but I did it so resonated with me,
so thank you for titling it that.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So you have experience with traditional with indie, with agents
and all of that, and I really want to dig
into that a little bit. But let's start with publishing
traditionally versus publishing as an indie author. Very briefly, how
would you find the difference and how would you advise
(04:46):
someone to pick one over the other.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
I don't think there's any right or wrong. They both
have their pros and cons. They're both very different. If
you are a control freak, then self publishing might be
the way to go for you, and I will say that.
So I work with writers as well, and often I'll
work with writers who say no, no, no, I want to
traditionally publish, and I typically advise them, okay, if you
(05:10):
want to do that, let's set a time limit six
months a year at some period of time where you're
going to try to get an agent you're going to
send out periods and try to go that traditional route.
If you don't have any bites by that time period,
then maybe move forward with the self publishing process. And
the reason I say that is because you can. You
(05:34):
can spend your life trying to get an agent. You
can spend your life trying to do that. And I
think as writers and as creatives, it's really important for
us always to be moving forward. I don't think it's
beneficial to limit yourself in that regard to where you're
stuck on one project for too long and then you're
(05:56):
losing an opportunity, you know, maybe to be led down
a different path, to be working on something new.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, exactly, And you make a really good point.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
They're they're both very different, right, and depending on your goals,
one might be better than the other. It's not what
your neighbor did or your cousin's friends, brothers, sister did,
but it's it's what fits in with your goals, So
thank you. So then the other question is, so let's
say I think, okay, I'm going to you know, traditional
publishing makes sense to me, and then people often go, well,
(06:31):
I must have an agent or you know, they have
these kind of myths in their head. So if you
do decide to go traditional publishing, when do you get
an agent and when do you go to a publishing
house directly?
Speaker 4 (06:45):
So a lot of this can be dependent on your genre,
like different books are suited for different models, so you
really have to do your research and figure out what
fits with you as an artist and with your project.
I would say you start querying agents you know, and
(07:06):
this is different if you're writing fiction versus nonfiction. For fiction,
you often have to have a very polished, finished manuscript,
a completed manuscript, whereas with nonfiction, depending on the type
of nonfiction, you might be approaching agents with a book
proposal and some sample chapters. So it's hard to give
one answer to that because it's so different depending on
(07:30):
what your project is. In terms of approaching a publisher directly,
there are many many small presses who welcome that and
don't require, you know, the gatekeepers of agents. But again
that would depend on if what you're writing specifically fits
(07:50):
what they are looking to publish. So you kind of
have to do your research and figure out where you
fit into this world and what the best approach is,
and it may not be one approach. You may be
trying different things and seeing what works for you. There's
there's never any one right way to do it, which
(08:11):
is why I like to try all the ways.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, no, And I love that you say.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
You know, there's the big publishers, and then there's the smaller,
more niche publishers. And if you have, you know, a
book about knitting, for example, there may be a niche
publisher that's right for you, versus trying to go to
a large publisher that's really looking for mass sales, versus
you know, fitting into their niche and having an audience
that follows them because they're very strong in that niche.
(08:37):
So thank you for saying that. I think that's really important.
So I guess, you know, if you want full control,
you want to be giving away books whenever you feel
like it. You know, self publishing might be the way
to go if you're looking. On the other side, if
you're looking to hit one of those big five publishing houses,
getting an agent might be the way to go, if
(09:00):
you know, and I agree, try everything, but you know,
if you I just want one of those big five,
you know, and if you're looking for publishing support, but
you're you know you're not. You have different goals. You
can look at your goals and find a smaller publishing
house that might might fit into your goals better than
either of the other two.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Right there are you know, with technology the way it
is and with all of the changes in the publishing world,
there are so many different variations there. There are also
publishers you can go to, not vanity presses per se,
but publishers which do have editorial guidelines. They do they
do discern who they're going to take on, but then
(09:42):
you pay them upfront for the print run, but you
have ac to access to their distribution channels. So there's
so many different types of publishing these days. One thing
I would say is if you were if you're going
to go with one of those in the middle, you know,
a a different model, then be sure to ask around
(10:05):
and talk to people who have used that type of
publisher so that you understand the process. Because I see
a lot of people get in over their heads. Maybe
maybe they don't understand the full financial commitment and what
is really possible and how that's going to work out.
A lot of these things people have to learn the
(10:26):
hard way, and that shouldn't be the case.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
So so I think.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Because of that, I always encourage people to engage with
their writing community. We can learn so much from each other,
so much from each other, and all the good writers
are willing to share. You know, we're willing to share
that information. We want it, we want to lift each
other up. That's really important. So do your research, talk
(10:53):
to people, and if you're going to go with a
certain person, whether that's an agent, a publisher, an editor,
and anybody in this this whole process, don't be afraid
to ask for testimonials, referrals from previous clients, you know,
and and and get that body of knowledge before you
(11:14):
move forward. I think that's that's really important in any
aspect of business, not just this world.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
And on top of that, the Independent Book Publishers Association
has a really brilliant list on what a hybrid publisher
should be, you know, their ethics and what they should
be offering. I'm going to drop that link for people
into the show notes so.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
They have that.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
So you know. Earlier you we were talking about some
people think they have to be traditional, they have to
be indie, and you know, it's a success or failure thing.
So I want to know. You know, you're an author
who's written a variety of genres, You've done screenwriting. How
do you personally define success as a writer?
Speaker 4 (11:55):
So I think about this a lot. I think about
the concepts of success and failure. I actually did a
talk once called success, failure, and other myths of the
writing life. Because they are myths, they are constructs. For me,
I define success as connection. Have you connected with one reader,
(12:18):
not a massive audience. Have you made a connection with
one reader? That is your job as a writer, That
is any any artist's job, making a connection with one person.
If you focus on that, then other good things will follow.
But I really think, you know, forget about awards and
(12:43):
titles and sales figures. Write the best book you can
write and make a connection with one reader, then you
have been successful in your craft.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah. I love that.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
And it's funny because I interviewed someone recently who's you know,
just a couple of episodes before you, who said, you
know what, take five minutes a day, reach out to
one reader. That's it, don't you know, don't worry about
all these big you know, marketing strategies.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Reach out to one reader a day. And take five minutes.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
And you were said to say, right, you were essentially
saying the same thing right now. It's like, look, if
you if you've connected with one reader, that's success. And
if you reached out to one reader a day, whether
you connected with them or not that particular day. Because
we're not going to succeed every time, as you said,
success failure the myths. But if you do the reaching
(13:35):
out once a day, that's three hundred and sixty five
people a year. And as we both know, one thing
that's very powerful for authors is you want people to
read the book, but we want them to review it
and recommend it as well. So when we start connecting
with people, that that magic can.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Happen, right, absolutely, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Do you ask for reviews?
Speaker 3 (13:59):
I did in the beginning.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
I also read all of my reviews in the beginning.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I don't do that anymore.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
My my focus has definitely shifted, and I don't I
don't regret the way I used to do things. I
don't regret how I do things now. But we're always
evolving and changing as artists, as marketers, as business people.
I have always struggled with the marketing side of things,
and so now I operate much more in a let
(14:35):
the let things take their course, let's see where things go,
as opposed to really hitting the pavement per se.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, that makes sense. The reviews are useful though, right.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Like absolutely, I don't think don't have the reviews to
a brand new author, first book. You know, reviews can
make a huge difference to them. So I don't think
you're saying don't do it. I think you're saying At
first that was that was something that I really leaned into.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
But I do not anymore, which.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I definitely tell new authors. Now.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
You know, somebody will say my book's up, what do
I do? And I'll say, okay, I want you to
make a list of twenty people, Just twenty people who you.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Know, I always say, geographically diverse.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Don't have them all live in your same city because
all of this feeds into algorithms and whatnot. But reach
out to twenty people who you who want to support
you and would be interested in your material and ask them.
You know, nine times out of ten, especially if it's
your first book, people are so happy for you, you know,
(15:36):
they want to help you. So you have to have
the confidence to reach out and say, hey, I wrote
this book, would you consider buying it and writing a
review and people will surprise you.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah, I love that. That's great. You are a New
York Times bestseller.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
And a lot of people, Oh, I want to be
a bestseller, and especially I want to be you know,
you know, a specific type bestseller. So I want to
ask you, can you share your experience of what's it
what it's like to be a New York Time bestseller?
And you know how has that changed you, changed your career,
(16:15):
changed your authorship.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Just give us a bit of the you know that experience? Please?
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Sure? Sure.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
So the I've had two books hit the New York
Times bestseller list, and really all that means is that
that book had a surge of sales within a given
time period. That's what that means. It doesn't mean the
book is excellent. It doesn't mean you know. And in
in one case, I knew why it happened. I had
(16:45):
run an ad campaign that was very successful and and
I could see where it happened in the In the
other instance, I had no idea how it had happened.
And I was like, oh my gosh, this is this
is crazy. And and because it had happened two years
after the book came out, so I was not expecting
(17:06):
anything like that. Well, eventually I went onto Barnesennoble dot com,
clicked on humor, and someone at Barnes and Noble behind
the scenes had decided to position my book in between
I think it was like Tina Fey and Chelsea Handler.
So someone saw my cover and title, this was this
little piggy went to the liquor store and said, hey,
(17:28):
that looks fun. Let's let's feature that one. So I
had no hand in that. It just happened.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
So I mean.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Just take it with a grain of salt. When you
see New York Times Bestseller Now, for some authors, all
of their books are and they're they're making a heck
of a living and they're doing great and top of
their game. I'm just a working writer and I had
I had two that made it, and I'm very grateful
(17:58):
for that experience. I didn't find out the first time
I made the New York Times bestseller list. I didn't
find out until a couple months later. No one calls
you unless you're unless you're checking and you're on top
of that, and then I was like, oh, two months ago,
I became a new York Times bestselling author. I had
(18:18):
no idea, and in terms of what I did next,
I'll tell you how I celebrated. I went to an
Octoberfest celebration at an old folks home because that's where
I was headed that evening for my husband's grandfather at
his old folks home was in the memory care facility
was they were having an Octoberfest celebration. So we ate
(18:40):
apple sauce and sipped grape juice. And you know, there's
no big celebration or what it means for me as
an author now is it's just something that I can
add to my name for the rest of my life. Right,
I have that distinction. But personally, like I said, I'm
very realistic about what that means. That means that twice,
(19:03):
with two separate books, I had a surge of sales
in a given time period that worked well enough for
the algorithm and and the climate at the time. You know,
the stars aligned and it happened. I certainly use that
in in my marketing and whatnot. But I'm a I'm
a pretty grounded person, you know, So I'm I'm pretty
(19:27):
realistic about what it means and what it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, thank you for defining that way the way you
define that that was that was gorgeous. I think that
that will really strike home with people who who have
anxiety around it or her dream of it. I think
that was that was really good. And so Amanda Turner
is a New York Times bestselling author and you should
check out her work at Amanda Turner dot com. And
(19:55):
because she sold a certain amount of books in a
particular time period. I love that, Amanda, But it still
means something, right, it does mean something. So check out
Amanda's work at Amanda Turner dot com. I recommend this
Little Piggy Went to the Liquor Store. That's the book
I'm going to recommend you today, especially.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
If your mom, this is.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Going to be something that you can relate to. All right, Amanda,
you said that you get to write. Sometimes authors are like, oh,
I have to finish my book.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I'm just like, but you get to write. So can
you tell us about how you get to write?
Speaker 4 (20:35):
I think mindset is really important if you're dreading it.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
If you're like, oh, oh I have to write. It's
so painful.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
You know, this is a gift, Like time is the
most precious thing that we have. And so if you
have the opportunity to use some of your time to
create with words, that's a gift. You should be excited
about that. If you can make sure you have that
mindset towards your work, it's going.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
To help you so much.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
You need to be excited about sitting down in that chair,
not not dreading it.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, And does that mean that you only write when
you are inspired to write or can you just dig
a little deeper into get to write and what that
means for you and your kind of your day to
day writing career.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
So I think if I waited for inspiration to write,
I would have written one one thousandth of the material
that I actually have. I don't believe in waiting for inspiration.
Sometimes you have to. Sometimes I will sit and I'll
just I'll have a pen in hand with a notebook
(21:51):
and I'll maybe start writing the alphabet, like I just
have to get that physical part of me going and
then words will come. But in terms of getting to write,
I equate it sometimes to travel. When you travel somewhere,
(22:12):
when you go to an airport and you get on
a plane, it can be hard and annoying, and things
go wrong and it's uncomfortable, but you have this opportunity
to travel. You get to fly in a magic metal
tube to another continent, Like, that's amazing. Most of the
world's population will never fly on an airplane. If you
(22:37):
have enough ownership of your time where you get to
sit down and play with words and think of stories
and put them on paper, that.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Is a gift. Like, what an amazing gift that is.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
If you think, I mean writers, in a way, we're
creating time travel too, right when we can connect with
readers and bring them strong worries long after we're gone
and all over the world. It's just it's an amazing,
magical thing. If you lost sight of that, think of
how you thought. Think of the time when you fell
(23:12):
in love with books as a child, Because if you're
a writer, you must love books like that's that goes
without saying. But when you get to write, like get
that magic back that you felt when you first fell
in love with books as a child. You need to
have that same love for it now and that that
(23:34):
breeds an appreciation for it and again that will just
it will serve you so well if you if you
frame it that way, if you have an appreciation for
the fact that you have the opportunity and the ability
to do this brilliant.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I love that, and I'm feeling to inspire. So from
that people out there are you know, authors, aspiring authors,
or listening what should they do next? Can you give
us some two or three concrete if you're suddenly feeling inspired,
do this now?
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
So first is make sure your mindset is correct. And
I'm gonna recommend one a great book that you can
read for that is The Creative Act by Rick Rubin.
This is a fantastic book and it echoes a lot
of the things that I've touched on here. But think
(24:27):
about your mindset. Take a really hard look at your mindset.
What is your self talk like?
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Is it negative?
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Instead of focusing on what you haven't done, get excited
about the possibilities, Get excited about the possibility of holding
your book in your hands. So really examine and actively
work on your mindset.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
That is one.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Number Two is engage with your artistic community. And I
you know, sometimes writers were reclusive, we don't want to
talk to people. And I resisted that for a long
time and then eventually I went and volunteered with the
local Writers Guild. I ended up volunteering with them for
a decade and that was so beneficial. You need to
(25:14):
be around other creative types. Creative types, we feed off
of each other's energy in a really magical way. So
engage with your community. And number three I would say
is learn to be selfish with your time. So right now,
block out a period of time.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
That is strictly yours every week.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
I don't care if it's twenty minutes twice a week,
those are your twenty minutes.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
You give up.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
It is non negotiably your time. Block off your time.
So yeah, examine your mind that engage with your community,
and block off time for yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, and I'm going to just pull those number two
and three together. You know. For example, we have a
Monday writing session for the our community every Monday, and
one thing that people really like about it is they say, well,
I can tell everyone I'm sorry, I can't talk to you.
I'm doing this, and it's not that there, it's in
their time. That's it's like they've committed to our our
(26:19):
writing session even though they get to write their book.
So no matter whether it's with Authornation or somebody else,
you know, find somebody who writes at a certain time,
certain day every week and join them and then tell
everyone kids partners that no, I'm sorry, I can't help
you because I'm in this I'm in this group and
they're depending on me. So that's my little two cents
(26:40):
to that. Amanda, thank you so much. There's just I
think we could just talk on and on and on,
but we're going to have to wrap it up unfortunately.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
This was great, fun, good and for everyone listening, you
know what the you know everything that Amanda has said,
all the suggestions will be in the show notes, books,
her website. How to connect with Amanda as well, It'll
all be in the show notes. So go down and
connect with Amanda because she's now part of your writing community.
(27:15):
And so thank you for joining us today at Authentation Interviews.
And I hope this conversation has provided you with the
inspiration it has provided me. Remember to check out authonation
dot online for even more resources. And of course, we
always appreciate your feedback. We appreciate your support. So if
you've enjoyed this episode, do two.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Things for me.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
One, leave a comment, and two share it with someone
who will benefit from it, because your participation helps us
continue delivering these insights and the tools you need to succeed.
So keep writing, keep creating, and keep sharing your stories,
your unique stories, with the world.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
A
Hello, and welcome to author Nation. I hope everyone is
doing really well today. So I am melody An, your host,
and today we are diving into publishing success. We're going
to be exploring indie publishing and traditionally publishing, and agents
and bestseller lists and more because we are here to
(00:31):
guide you towards actionable insights. It's great to listen, it's
way better to actually have something you can take action with.
So that's what we are doing today. Because here an Authoration,
we're committed to your success. You can go to authoration
dot online to find resources for wherever you happen to
be right now. So whether you're sipping your morning coffee
or winding down after a long day, settle in as
(00:53):
we explore publishing choices to help you succeed as a
nonfiction author. I'd like to introduce my guest, Amanda Turner,
who also writes as ak. Turner is the New York
Times best selling author of ten books, including How to
Be Awkward, This Little Piggy Went to the Liquor Store
(01:14):
and Vagabonding with Kids series. She is also the award
winning screenwriter of Product of the System, The Christopher Sharp Story.
It is a true story of a gay foster youth
who survived abuse, trafficking, and homelessness. Expect eventually testifying on
behalf of foster children against Greg Abbott and the State
(01:37):
of Texas in a landmark case. Let's welcome Amanda Turner.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Hi, Amanda, Hello, it's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, I'm so excited you're here. And you just have
this fascinating mix of you know, humor, writing, travel memoirs,
a screenplay, which is a very serious topic. So could
you tell tell me kind of what drew you to
writing and how you developed this diverse body of work.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
So my father was a writer. He was a very
successful nonfiction author. He wrote the two you might have
heard of, Midnight Express and Not Without my Daughter, and
he has since passed on. But I grew up I think,
with more of a knowledge of what it was to
be a writer than most kids. Like when you're a kid,
(02:29):
you know, books just appear on the shelf, books just
exist in the library. And I could sort of see
one from day one. I could see that creative process,
and so it was just more on my radar. I
think I knew that that that writers were a thing,
that they were these creators of these magical things called books,
(02:50):
and so I was always intrigued by it. Wrote stories
from a very young age. In terms of the diverse
of my work, I think I'm a big proponent of
just going going where you are led, like being open
to different forms, different genre, different topics.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
You know, just just be open. I never want to.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Pigeonhole myself as like, oh, I'm a humor writer, I
can only do this, or you know, there's so much
to learn and so much to explore in the world
of writing.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
So I just always want to be open to that.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, brilliant. I love that.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
And I have to say, when I saw the title
this Little Bingu went to the liquor Store, it reminded
me of a story when I was getting one of
my children ready for school one day and I was
in a huge rush and I just like threw everything
together and sent her.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Out the door. And when I picked up from school
and she.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Handed me this paper bag lunch that I'd thrown together,
it was a liquor store bag.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Whoops, Whoopsie.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I was the mom who said the kid to the
to school with a luncheon a liquor store bag. So
when you when I read this book, went of the
liquor store just it really resonated with me. So great title.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Every now and then people are like, oh, is it
a children's book, and I said, no, it.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Is not exactly, but I did it so resonated with me,
so thank you for titling it that.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So you have experience with traditional with indie, with agents
and all of that, and I really want to dig
into that a little bit. But let's start with publishing
traditionally versus publishing as an indie author. Very briefly, how
would you find the difference and how would you advise
(04:46):
someone to pick one over the other.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
I don't think there's any right or wrong. They both
have their pros and cons. They're both very different. If
you are a control freak, then self publishing might be
the way to go for you, and I will say that.
So I work with writers as well, and often I'll
work with writers who say no, no, no, I want to
traditionally publish, and I typically advise them, okay, if you
(05:10):
want to do that, let's set a time limit six
months a year at some period of time where you're
going to try to get an agent you're going to
send out periods and try to go that traditional route.
If you don't have any bites by that time period,
then maybe move forward with the self publishing process. And
the reason I say that is because you can. You
(05:34):
can spend your life trying to get an agent. You
can spend your life trying to do that. And I
think as writers and as creatives, it's really important for
us always to be moving forward. I don't think it's
beneficial to limit yourself in that regard to where you're
stuck on one project for too long and then you're
(05:56):
losing an opportunity, you know, maybe to be led down
a different path, to be working on something new.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, exactly, And you make a really good point.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
They're they're both very different, right, and depending on your goals,
one might be better than the other. It's not what
your neighbor did or your cousin's friends, brothers, sister did,
but it's it's what fits in with your goals, So
thank you. So then the other question is, so let's
say I think, okay, I'm going to you know, traditional
publishing makes sense to me, and then people often go, well,
(06:31):
I must have an agent or you know, they have
these kind of myths in their head. So if you
do decide to go traditional publishing, when do you get
an agent and when do you go to a publishing
house directly?
Speaker 4 (06:45):
So a lot of this can be dependent on your genre,
like different books are suited for different models, so you
really have to do your research and figure out what
fits with you as an artist and with your project.
I would say you start querying agents you know, and
(07:06):
this is different if you're writing fiction versus nonfiction. For fiction,
you often have to have a very polished, finished manuscript,
a completed manuscript, whereas with nonfiction, depending on the type
of nonfiction, you might be approaching agents with a book
proposal and some sample chapters. So it's hard to give
one answer to that because it's so different depending on
(07:30):
what your project is. In terms of approaching a publisher directly,
there are many many small presses who welcome that and
don't require, you know, the gatekeepers of agents. But again
that would depend on if what you're writing specifically fits
(07:50):
what they are looking to publish. So you kind of
have to do your research and figure out where you
fit into this world and what the best approach is,
and it may not be one approach. You may be
trying different things and seeing what works for you. There's
there's never any one right way to do it, which
(08:11):
is why I like to try all the ways.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, no, And I love that you say.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
You know, there's the big publishers, and then there's the smaller,
more niche publishers. And if you have, you know, a
book about knitting, for example, there may be a niche
publisher that's right for you, versus trying to go to
a large publisher that's really looking for mass sales, versus
you know, fitting into their niche and having an audience
that follows them because they're very strong in that niche.
(08:37):
So thank you for saying that. I think that's really important.
So I guess, you know, if you want full control,
you want to be giving away books whenever you feel
like it. You know, self publishing might be the way
to go if you're looking. On the other side, if
you're looking to hit one of those big five publishing houses,
getting an agent might be the way to go, if
(09:00):
you know, and I agree, try everything, but you know,
if you I just want one of those big five,
you know, and if you're looking for publishing support, but
you're you know you're not. You have different goals. You
can look at your goals and find a smaller publishing
house that might might fit into your goals better than
either of the other two.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Right there are you know, with technology the way it
is and with all of the changes in the publishing world,
there are so many different variations there. There are also
publishers you can go to, not vanity presses per se,
but publishers which do have editorial guidelines. They do they
do discern who they're going to take on, but then
(09:42):
you pay them upfront for the print run, but you
have ac to access to their distribution channels. So there's
so many different types of publishing these days. One thing
I would say is if you were if you're going
to go with one of those in the middle, you know,
a a different model, then be sure to ask around
(10:05):
and talk to people who have used that type of
publisher so that you understand the process. Because I see
a lot of people get in over their heads. Maybe
maybe they don't understand the full financial commitment and what
is really possible and how that's going to work out.
A lot of these things people have to learn the
(10:26):
hard way, and that shouldn't be the case.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
So so I think.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Because of that, I always encourage people to engage with
their writing community. We can learn so much from each other,
so much from each other, and all the good writers
are willing to share. You know, we're willing to share
that information. We want it, we want to lift each
other up. That's really important. So do your research, talk
(10:53):
to people, and if you're going to go with a
certain person, whether that's an agent, a publisher, an editor,
and anybody in this this whole process, don't be afraid
to ask for testimonials, referrals from previous clients, you know,
and and and get that body of knowledge before you
(11:14):
move forward. I think that's that's really important in any
aspect of business, not just this world.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
And on top of that, the Independent Book Publishers Association
has a really brilliant list on what a hybrid publisher
should be, you know, their ethics and what they should
be offering. I'm going to drop that link for people
into the show notes so.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
They have that.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
So you know. Earlier you we were talking about some
people think they have to be traditional, they have to
be indie, and you know, it's a success or failure thing.
So I want to know. You know, you're an author
who's written a variety of genres, You've done screenwriting. How
do you personally define success as a writer?
Speaker 4 (11:55):
So I think about this a lot. I think about
the concepts of success and failure. I actually did a
talk once called success, failure, and other myths of the
writing life. Because they are myths, they are constructs. For me,
I define success as connection. Have you connected with one reader,
(12:18):
not a massive audience. Have you made a connection with
one reader? That is your job as a writer, That
is any any artist's job, making a connection with one person.
If you focus on that, then other good things will follow.
But I really think, you know, forget about awards and
(12:43):
titles and sales figures. Write the best book you can
write and make a connection with one reader, then you
have been successful in your craft.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah. I love that.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
And it's funny because I interviewed someone recently who's you know,
just a couple of episodes before you, who said, you
know what, take five minutes a day, reach out to
one reader. That's it, don't you know, don't worry about
all these big you know, marketing strategies.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Reach out to one reader a day. And take five minutes.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
And you were said to say, right, you were essentially
saying the same thing right now. It's like, look, if
you if you've connected with one reader, that's success. And
if you reached out to one reader a day, whether
you connected with them or not that particular day. Because
we're not going to succeed every time, as you said,
success failure the myths. But if you do the reaching
(13:35):
out once a day, that's three hundred and sixty five
people a year. And as we both know, one thing
that's very powerful for authors is you want people to
read the book, but we want them to review it
and recommend it as well. So when we start connecting
with people, that that magic can.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Happen, right, absolutely, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Do you ask for reviews?
Speaker 3 (13:59):
I did in the beginning.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
I also read all of my reviews in the beginning.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I don't do that anymore.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
My my focus has definitely shifted, and I don't I
don't regret the way I used to do things. I
don't regret how I do things now. But we're always
evolving and changing as artists, as marketers, as business people.
I have always struggled with the marketing side of things,
and so now I operate much more in a let
(14:35):
the let things take their course, let's see where things go,
as opposed to really hitting the pavement per se.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, that makes sense. The reviews are useful though, right.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Like absolutely, I don't think don't have the reviews to
a brand new author, first book. You know, reviews can
make a huge difference to them. So I don't think
you're saying don't do it. I think you're saying At
first that was that was something that I really leaned into.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
But I do not anymore, which.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I definitely tell new authors. Now.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
You know, somebody will say my book's up, what do
I do? And I'll say, okay, I want you to
make a list of twenty people, Just twenty people who you.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Know, I always say, geographically diverse.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Don't have them all live in your same city because
all of this feeds into algorithms and whatnot. But reach
out to twenty people who you who want to support
you and would be interested in your material and ask them.
You know, nine times out of ten, especially if it's
your first book, people are so happy for you, you know,
(15:36):
they want to help you. So you have to have
the confidence to reach out and say, hey, I wrote
this book, would you consider buying it and writing a
review and people will surprise you.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah, I love that. That's great. You are a New
York Times bestseller.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
And a lot of people, Oh, I want to be
a bestseller, and especially I want to be you know,
you know, a specific type bestseller. So I want to
ask you, can you share your experience of what's it
what it's like to be a New York Time bestseller?
And you know how has that changed you, changed your career,
(16:15):
changed your authorship.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Just give us a bit of the you know that experience? Please?
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Sure? Sure.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
So the I've had two books hit the New York
Times bestseller list, and really all that means is that
that book had a surge of sales within a given
time period. That's what that means. It doesn't mean the
book is excellent. It doesn't mean you know. And in
in one case, I knew why it happened. I had
(16:45):
run an ad campaign that was very successful and and
I could see where it happened in the In the
other instance, I had no idea how it had happened.
And I was like, oh my gosh, this is this
is crazy. And and because it had happened two years
after the book came out, so I was not expecting
(17:06):
anything like that. Well, eventually I went onto Barnesennoble dot com,
clicked on humor, and someone at Barnes and Noble behind
the scenes had decided to position my book in between
I think it was like Tina Fey and Chelsea Handler.
So someone saw my cover and title, this was this
little piggy went to the liquor store and said, hey,
(17:28):
that looks fun. Let's let's feature that one. So I
had no hand in that. It just happened.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
So I mean.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Just take it with a grain of salt. When you
see New York Times Bestseller Now, for some authors, all
of their books are and they're they're making a heck
of a living and they're doing great and top of
their game. I'm just a working writer and I had
I had two that made it, and I'm very grateful
(17:58):
for that experience. I didn't find out the first time
I made the New York Times bestseller list. I didn't
find out until a couple months later. No one calls
you unless you're unless you're checking and you're on top
of that, and then I was like, oh, two months ago,
I became a new York Times bestselling author. I had
(18:18):
no idea, and in terms of what I did next,
I'll tell you how I celebrated. I went to an
Octoberfest celebration at an old folks home because that's where
I was headed that evening for my husband's grandfather at
his old folks home was in the memory care facility
was they were having an Octoberfest celebration. So we ate
(18:40):
apple sauce and sipped grape juice. And you know, there's
no big celebration or what it means for me as
an author now is it's just something that I can
add to my name for the rest of my life. Right,
I have that distinction. But personally, like I said, I'm
very realistic about what that means. That means that twice,
(19:03):
with two separate books, I had a surge of sales
in a given time period that worked well enough for
the algorithm and and the climate at the time. You know,
the stars aligned and it happened. I certainly use that
in in my marketing and whatnot. But I'm a I'm
a pretty grounded person, you know, So I'm I'm pretty
(19:27):
realistic about what it means and what it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, thank you for defining that way the way you
define that that was that was gorgeous. I think that
that will really strike home with people who who have
anxiety around it or her dream of it. I think
that was that was really good. And so Amanda Turner
is a New York Times bestselling author and you should
check out her work at Amanda Turner dot com. And
(19:55):
because she sold a certain amount of books in a
particular time period. I love that, Amanda, But it still
means something, right, it does mean something. So check out
Amanda's work at Amanda Turner dot com. I recommend this
Little Piggy Went to the Liquor Store. That's the book
I'm going to recommend you today, especially.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
If your mom, this is.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Going to be something that you can relate to. All right, Amanda,
you said that you get to write. Sometimes authors are like, oh,
I have to finish my book.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
I'm just like, but you get to write. So can
you tell us about how you get to write?
Speaker 4 (20:35):
I think mindset is really important if you're dreading it.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
If you're like, oh, oh I have to write. It's
so painful.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
You know, this is a gift, Like time is the
most precious thing that we have. And so if you
have the opportunity to use some of your time to
create with words, that's a gift. You should be excited
about that. If you can make sure you have that
mindset towards your work, it's going.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
To help you so much.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
You need to be excited about sitting down in that chair,
not not dreading it.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, And does that mean that you only write when
you are inspired to write or can you just dig
a little deeper into get to write and what that
means for you and your kind of your day to
day writing career.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
So I think if I waited for inspiration to write,
I would have written one one thousandth of the material
that I actually have. I don't believe in waiting for inspiration.
Sometimes you have to. Sometimes I will sit and I'll
just I'll have a pen in hand with a notebook
(21:51):
and I'll maybe start writing the alphabet, like I just
have to get that physical part of me going and
then words will come. But in terms of getting to write,
I equate it sometimes to travel. When you travel somewhere,
(22:12):
when you go to an airport and you get on
a plane, it can be hard and annoying, and things
go wrong and it's uncomfortable, but you have this opportunity
to travel. You get to fly in a magic metal
tube to another continent, Like, that's amazing. Most of the
world's population will never fly on an airplane. If you
(22:37):
have enough ownership of your time where you get to
sit down and play with words and think of stories
and put them on paper, that.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Is a gift. Like, what an amazing gift that is.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
If you think, I mean writers, in a way, we're
creating time travel too, right when we can connect with
readers and bring them strong worries long after we're gone
and all over the world. It's just it's an amazing,
magical thing. If you lost sight of that, think of
how you thought. Think of the time when you fell
(23:12):
in love with books as a child, Because if you're
a writer, you must love books like that's that goes
without saying. But when you get to write, like get
that magic back that you felt when you first fell
in love with books as a child. You need to
have that same love for it now and that that
(23:34):
breeds an appreciation for it and again that will just
it will serve you so well if you if you
frame it that way, if you have an appreciation for
the fact that you have the opportunity and the ability
to do this brilliant.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I love that, and I'm feeling to inspire. So from
that people out there are you know, authors, aspiring authors,
or listening what should they do next? Can you give
us some two or three concrete if you're suddenly feeling inspired,
do this now?
Speaker 3 (24:04):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
So first is make sure your mindset is correct. And
I'm gonna recommend one a great book that you can
read for that is The Creative Act by Rick Rubin.
This is a fantastic book and it echoes a lot
of the things that I've touched on here. But think
(24:27):
about your mindset. Take a really hard look at your mindset.
What is your self talk like?
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Is it negative?
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Instead of focusing on what you haven't done, get excited
about the possibilities, Get excited about the possibility of holding
your book in your hands. So really examine and actively
work on your mindset.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
That is one.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Number Two is engage with your artistic community. And I
you know, sometimes writers were reclusive, we don't want to
talk to people. And I resisted that for a long
time and then eventually I went and volunteered with the
local Writers Guild. I ended up volunteering with them for
a decade and that was so beneficial. You need to
(25:14):
be around other creative types. Creative types, we feed off
of each other's energy in a really magical way. So
engage with your community. And number three I would say
is learn to be selfish with your time. So right now,
block out a period of time.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
That is strictly yours every week.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
I don't care if it's twenty minutes twice a week,
those are your twenty minutes.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
You give up.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
It is non negotiably your time. Block off your time.
So yeah, examine your mind that engage with your community,
and block off time for yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, and I'm going to just pull those number two
and three together. You know. For example, we have a
Monday writing session for the our community every Monday, and
one thing that people really like about it is they say, well,
I can tell everyone I'm sorry, I can't talk to you.
I'm doing this, and it's not that there, it's in
their time. That's it's like they've committed to our our
(26:19):
writing session even though they get to write their book.
So no matter whether it's with Authornation or somebody else,
you know, find somebody who writes at a certain time,
certain day every week and join them and then tell
everyone kids partners that no, I'm sorry, I can't help
you because I'm in this I'm in this group and
they're depending on me. So that's my little two cents
(26:40):
to that. Amanda, thank you so much. There's just I
think we could just talk on and on and on,
but we're going to have to wrap it up unfortunately.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
This was great, fun, good and for everyone listening, you
know what the you know everything that Amanda has said,
all the suggestions will be in the show notes, books,
her website. How to connect with Amanda as well, It'll
all be in the show notes. So go down and
connect with Amanda because she's now part of your writing community.
(27:15):
And so thank you for joining us today at Authentation Interviews.
And I hope this conversation has provided you with the
inspiration it has provided me. Remember to check out authonation
dot online for even more resources. And of course, we
always appreciate your feedback. We appreciate your support. So if
you've enjoyed this episode, do two.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Things for me.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
One, leave a comment, and two share it with someone
who will benefit from it, because your participation helps us
continue delivering these insights and the tools you need to succeed.
So keep writing, keep creating, and keep sharing your stories,
your unique stories, with the world.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
A
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