February 6, 2025 • 24 mins
Join us in this inspiring episode as we explore the powerful theme of Breaking Stigma through Writing with author and advocate Savannah Hauk. Discover how storytelling can be a transformative tool for change and understanding.
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Key Takeaways:
Want a step-by-step roadmap to make your book a success? Grab my FREE 5-Day Nonfiction Book Marketing Challenge here: http://authornation.online/promotion.
Key Takeaways:
- Learn how When Authors Advocate, they can challenge societal norms and foster acceptance.
- Discover the importance of authenticity and vulnerability in writing to connect with readers.
- Understand practical strategies to Write Fearlessly: Make an Impact With Your Words!
- Explore how personal stories can educate and empower others while breaking down stigma.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to Author Nation Interviews. Today, we are diving into
writing to advocate, distigmatize, and create a world we want
to live in. I'm your host, Melodie Ann, and I'm
here to guide you toward actionable insights and strategies that
will help you succeed as an author while changing the world.
Visit authornation dot online to access a treasure trove of
(00:31):
resources just for you now, whether you are starting a
day with a coffee or winding down after a long day,
settle in and let me introduce our guest. Detroit born
Savannah Hawk is an author, podcaster, advocate, and ted X
speaker living a confident, visible, and successful male to female
(00:53):
cross dressing life. Her e Lit Award winning Living with
Cross Dressing book series demystifies and destigmatizes the dual gender
experience for cross dressers and their loved ones. As co
host of The Fox and the Phoenix podcast, Savannah furthers
her mission of promoting understanding, acceptance, and inclusivity in gender
(01:16):
identity and expression. She also leads workshops and has delivered
two impactful ted X talks.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Welcome Savannah, Hi, Wow, it sounds like I really want
to meet this guest of yours. They sound amazing, don't
she sound fantastic? I tell you what, it's a very
impressive resume, and that's why I'm exhausted all the time.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, exactly. Let's start with your It's actually a book series, right,
Living with cross Dressings. Tell me about the book series.
What is it about, what inspired you to write it,
and what are you hoping they'll do?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Well? There's three books now. The first one I did,
I don't know, seven years ago, and it was a
direct response to the fact that I told my girlfriend,
I'm like day one of getting serious that hey, by
the way, this chuck thing that you're looking at is
(02:16):
not all the time. So sometimes there's a thing called
Savannah and she's like, wait, what, I don't understand any
of that. So I'm like, oh, read this book, read
that book. I had not read those books. While I
had endorsed the reading of those books, just to find out,
I had shut myself in the heel by giving her
books with bad information about people like me specifically. So
(02:42):
I'm already a zombie. I have a zombie series as
well in my mail side. So I had already been
writing for several years and I'm like, I know, I
need to write something. I need to write it for
somebody who's like me, non transitioning, non fetishistic, just somebody
who likes to be feminine. And I started interviewing people,
(03:04):
couples that I knew in the New York and Long
Island area, getting their stories and basically the first book
was like, hey, let me set the record straight. That's
what it was. And I didn't intend for it to
be important. I just felt in that moment, as sometimes
you have that drive you have to do the thing,
(03:25):
and I felt like I had to do the thing,
and unfortunately for me, it ended up being very well received.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, it was obviously necessary, right, I mean, there's that's
the thing. There was a need that wasn't being I.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Felt there was. Most of the books that were out
to date were about well, there's a couple of different genres.
There's the erotica genre. And the last thing you want
your partner to find is a search on Amazon for living.
You know, my husband's across Chesser and see pages and
pages of pages of erotica. That's never good. So it
(04:05):
was filled with that, and it was filled with people
talking about cross dressing. But as part of a longer
journey transition. So if somebody is told they're a cross dresser, say, hey,
by the way, love of my life, wife of ten years,
this is what I do. And they first they don't
know what I have to ask you. They have a
preconception of what to ask you. And if they read
(04:28):
books that where every book leads to transition and that
is not your journey, then you are kind of Unfortunately,
you get stigmatized just by the reading material, even if
it's the most helpful material ever, it says oh no,
in the book, it says you're going to transition, and
you're like, but no, that's not my journey. It's like,
(04:48):
well that's what book said, so you know, sorry.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And now I'm afraid of it.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Right, It's always in the back of your mind, right.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I was afraid of Okay, good. So my next question
really is, so your book series, who is the ideal
reader for this book series. Are you speaking to mostly
the loved ones trying to understand, are you speaking to
the cross jesser who's trying to figure themselves out or both?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
The first book was for both, primarily for the crossjas
email that is a defining a new normal one. It
is stories for couples, so you've got both points of view.
It is good for kind of like a cross dressing
one on one for a spouse or a partner who
(05:40):
doesn't have any idea of the reasons why and how
long it's been around and why you do it. But
it was since it's me and I'm the writer, it
is slanted towards my world experience and like my authenticity
and how I see the world. So it is slanted
towards the male cross dress but I packed it with
(06:01):
enough stories, with my girlfriend's anecdotes and trying to be
very balanced and empathetic to both sides. The second book,
which is Discovering a New Discovering I got to look
up to say what I've done discovering your true identity.
That one is really a cross dresser primer that is
specifically for the cross dressing mail. I tend my books
(06:24):
tend to slant, and even the podcast tends to slant,
like thirty to sixty years of age. That's kind of
like the pocket because obviously at the young'ins, they know
what's going on. They don't even my help. But there
are people who've been closative for their entirety of their lives.
Misinformation grew up not understanding that this thing existed. Feeling alone,
(06:44):
that's like the target market, and I was speaking to
them in the second book.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, feeling alone or worse, self hate, right, self loathing
is a monster for sure. Yeah, exactly. All right, let's
dig into you know, we've kind of looked at all
all of the books. Now we all have a sense
of it. Let's look into you know, making a powerful book.
So what do you believe makes a powerful or book
(07:10):
powerful enough to create positive change in the world.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Wow? That's yeah. I know. I already knew these questions
were coming, and I don't know if I even have
a good answer yet because I was kind of mulling
it over because my first book, I didn't have any
intent that it was going to gain any traction. I
just felt it was something I needed to do. Even
if it sold three copies and one of them was
to myself. I didn't have any gauge of it being
(07:38):
powerful or impactful. I just knew it was needed for
myself to get out into the world, and to my delight,
people talk to me and contact me and text me
and message me all the time about its impact on them.
So the only answer I can give you is to
why these books are impactful is because I wrote it
(08:00):
from a very introspective, empathetic, kind position, Like I'm not
here to judge anybody. I'm not here to inform you
what your your journey should be. I said, this is
my experience, here's where I'm thinking about it, here's where
I'm going, this is the work I've done for myself.
(08:22):
So I think if you are honest and authentic and
empathetic and kind, and you know, a little humor goes
a long way, you're a little like self deprecating. I
think in those ways you can connect with an audience,
maybe more so than drier material. And in terms of
it being powerful, I think if your message is something
(08:42):
honest and truthful and people can resonate with that story
and say, oh my god, it's as if you're talking
about me, that in this this genre space, I think
is super super important.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, I agree. I think what makes often what makes
a book powerful is when the author is able to
be authentic and vulnerable and empathic and yet not preach,
not saying this is the path, but this is the path.
I took and maybe you can learn something from this
(09:16):
to apply to your life if you were in the
same or similar situation. Does that resonate at all with you? Oh?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Absolutely absolutely. And I can't tell you how much my
journey in life has been impacted by just listening to stories,
whether Facebook posts, whether going to a meetup group and
listening to somebody who's not even like you, just listening
to their story and their journey, and like just finding
those little tidbits that really seem like you strongly connect to.
(09:46):
I think we can find in walks of life, and
I think the problem is we spend a lot of
time You're like me, you're like me, you're like me,
So I'm only going to hang out with those type
of people, and we kind of sell ourselves short for
a learn mean and growth in being outside of what
we know the world to be. So absolutely I agree
that it's super super important to find everything that resonates
(10:11):
and then take it in within yourself and find out
how it works. I think we can all hear stories,
but not a lot of times do we listen to
this story.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, beautiful, thank you. So the other thing that and
maybe I'm wrong, but my you know. My The way
I'm thinking about it is, you know, mail cross dressing
is complex because, as you said, there are some who
are transitioning, some of who are not, some who are
into more fetish stuff, some who are not, and so
(10:41):
there's all that. Like it's it's it's not simple, it's
it's complex, and in society it's still a sensitive topic.
As you said, some people still aren't talking about their journey.
So how how did you approach that? Because I know
that you know in your books you want to want
to educate, you want to inspire, you want to empathize
(11:04):
and empower your audience. So how did you approach the topic.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Like like a doctor's thesis is I think the best
thing I could tell you I did a lot of
you know, we live in the digital age. When I
grew up, we had you know, index cards, and we
went to the library and we use a dew a
decimal system to figure out where things are. That is
not where I started learning. I learned from others, like
(11:33):
I said, and then so to write this book, even
the first book I told you about, I listened to
other people's stories and that basically ghosts wrote their stories,
and then those each of those were chapters, and each
of those told a different story of supposedly the exact
same type of person, but like, how do they interact?
(11:54):
When do they tell their wife? How did the life react?
What's the relationship look like? Now? Do they, you know,
do it together? Do they do it separately? Do they
just you do it but don't tell me? There was
even just somebody who seems on their surface exactly like me.
Every one of us had a very different experience, a
different story, So there was a lot of research. I
guess my point is research when I get into these,
(12:16):
it's not necessarily research as if I'm researching a topic.
Although my gender one on one book, the third book
of the series, is very heavy in research. But I
wanted to just like have answers for myself. So when
I wrote the second book, it was like, well, why
do I do it? I don't even know why I
(12:38):
do it? So what are the reasons, what are the ways?
What can I suss out from the internet that is
not just op eds or very like you said, very judgmental,
And let me just find out the stories and then
to start start jotting things down. What made sense to
me that way when I tell a story and say
(12:58):
this is me. By the way, there's like twenty other
things that it could be. So I'm not just saying
this is my story, learn from it. It's like, this
is my story, and here's like forty other reasons and
ways in how we show up in the world. Like
do I do it too distress after a long day
because I'm a fortune five hundred CEO? Is it an
(13:19):
escapism where I feel like I don't have any worries
in my life? Is it just a comfort? Is it trauma?
You know, there's so many reasons why none of them
are going to be su stinct to every journey. So yeah,
I research it and I find out as much as
I can, and then as it's all right alling around
in my brain because I don't do outlines. For all
(13:40):
your people who want to write, I do not outline.
I just kind of put it all down in like
a note on my iPhone and then just start parsing
it out and start typing and see where it takes me.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Nice I like that. If you want to learn more
about Savannah and her work, you can find her at
Living with cross Dressing dot com. It's on the screen
in front of you. It will be in the show
notes as well, so you can go check that out
and learn more about Savannah there. All right, My next question,
(14:13):
I know I have lots of big questions for you,
don't I. So I'd love to know some of the
lessons you've taken away from this journey. You know, you
probably walked into it not thinking, oh, I'm going to
write a whole series and I'm going to educate, and
I'm going to deal with misconceptions and stereotypes, and I'm
going to listen to many stories. But you've done all this,
So what are some of the lessons that you might
(14:36):
want to share with other authors who want to tackle
stigma or stereotypes or misconceptions or sensitive topics.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Oh you, It's funny I talk about that because my
second ted X was about misconceptions and stereotypes, and one
of the main points I made is that we, the
person projecting or making a case, is just as biased
(15:08):
and prejudice and prone to stereotyping as everyone else. Right,
So if you want to and I think you brought
it up earlier, if you want to write something that's powerful,
impactful and destigmatizing, you really shouldn't take a position of,
like you said, preaching or telling somebody how they should
do something, because that all that does is usually make
(15:31):
people dig their heels. They get defensive, they're like, why
are you telling me that? Because I don't believe it.
All of a sudden, the world views really come up,
shielding them from any outside information. And I found that
if you could be self deprecating, if you can have
an even presentation like hey, I strongly feel about it
(15:53):
this way, and also X, Y, and Z also may
be true if you have a very balanced you, some
think you get more buying for the reader or the listener,
And I think it's super important. If you're trying to
destigmatize something, you can't throw it in people's faces as
(16:14):
like you must accept me for who I am, especially
if they are not that person who has somebody in
your life that is doing this is a cross row, Samail.
If I'm just reading this because somebody told me I
had to, you're resistant. So if you make it easily
accessible and you're engaged, and you get their engagement, you're
(16:36):
going to find that you can get some ideas across.
Doesn't mean you're going to change the world. In their opinion,
but if you can make a solid, reasonable simple case
a lot of ways you're gonna say, you're gonna let
them think, And I think that's all you can ask for,
is for them to come away from it and say
huh maybe or like yeah, okay, if you could just
(17:01):
let open up the questions, then that's all you can
ask for.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah. I like how you said that. You know, if
you can get them to walk away and just think, right,
just just thinking, I think that is really powerful. And
I'm just going to add give them something to think
about and give them a story because you talked about
that earlier, giving them something to think about and putting
that in story form, because what often happens with stories.
(17:28):
We see if you can set up a story where
they can see themselves in that person in some way,
even if it's not you know, not exactly, but there's
aspects of that human that relate to their own humanness,
and then you give them another piece that doesn't relate
and something to think about. I think that's really really powerful.
(17:48):
So I love that you talked about giving them something
to think and giving them giving them stories. Thank you well, And.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
That's why sci fi. That's why sci fi is so
powerful is because we are giving so many cultural and
social commentary messages through science fiction that is such is
embedded in such a good story that it's so digestible
even if you don't realize that it's like, oh wow,
(18:18):
that's happening today. But if you're just talking about in
a way that is infused with narrative, again, sci fi
is so powerful in that way, and it's so successful
as well.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, good point. Thank you. And now I
know Savannah that you do a whole bunch of other
really cool things. You've had writing, podcasting, advocacy work. Do
I just give us a little bit about what you
do and maybe what's next for you?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Well, what's next? I am currently speaking of sci fi?
I am currently writing a young adult queer sci fi
dystopian four part series also about it was basically my
thought was, how do I write a book that science
(19:04):
fiction medium fantasy that is like my journey that if
I would have read this as a child, I would
have resonated with this character in such a just visceral
way I would have felt akin to that person. So
this series is about a young boy who is a
(19:26):
host or is targeted to be a host for earthbound
feminine fairy spirit, but we live they live in a
very Handmaid's tale world that anything outside the norm is
considered very bad. So that's what's next. I am in
the three or four books I'm editing. Then my editor
(19:48):
has book one and two. I still have to reread
book four, but I'm very excited about I'm hoping that
twenty twenty five is the year I get this series
out because I've been working on for five years. And
of course, as we all know as creatives, I already
have my next book swirling around in my head, also fiction,
(20:11):
because I just put out that gender one on one
book in between writing the Saga book series. I got
that done with like three months, so it was like,
I need to do this, I need to write N
one on one, and then went right back to writing
my young adult series. So yeah, that's my future. My
(20:31):
person future is all around being creative. The podcast we
do every week, you and I were speaking in the
back about how I have a horror live stream as
well in my male point of view, so yeah, I'm
always tapping into the things I love.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Beautiful, thank you so much. So to sum up today
from our conversation, Could you give us maybe up to
three kind of takeaways to dos for authors who are
listening and thinking, yeah, I'm excited about this and I
want to write something. Advocates, I want to want to
change the world. Can you give us kind of the
(21:08):
three to dos that we've kind of touched on today.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Well, I was out preface if by saying, if you
go in with the intent to change the world, it's
going to be I think a little too daunting and
overwhelming with that expectation for yourself. I think if you
go in with honesty, empathy, your truth as you see it,
as well as a larger, larger worldview exposure, so you
(21:35):
can almost be like a person on debateing right where
not only do you have to be able to disprove
your own view before you should have your own view.
So if you can come up with every other angle,
then you've become very rich in your storytelling, especially when
you're doing advocacy, especially when you're trying to win hearts
(21:56):
and minds. If you come in preaching, like you said,
you're not going to get the buy in. But if
you can come in and be able to ask or
answer every question thrown at you from every perspective, or
at least most, then you have a really good chance
of being heard and having those people who are hearing
(22:18):
you hear the message. So I know that's kind of
like an amalgam of three things, but just coming in
being truthful, being worldly in your knowledge base, and just
being honest and have heart and empathy about what you're writing.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, yeah, I love that. Thank you so much. Once again,
Where can we find you?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Well, you can find me at Living with Crossdressing dot com.
I'm also on Facebook at Savannah Hawk and that's ha uk.
Also Instagram at Savana Hawk. You can also find our podcast,
The Fox and the Phoenix Podcast on Spotify and wherever
else you download materials. And you can find all three
(23:02):
of my books on Amazon for print and digital download,
as well as other digital download dotloads.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Brilliant, Savana. Thank you much. Thank you so much for
joining us today.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Thank you. I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Good me too. All right, everyone, thank you so much
for listening in today. I hope this conversation has provided
you with some insights on how to really connect with
your readers when you're looking to make some sort of change,
and remember to visit authonation dot online to unlock a
wealth of resources to design, to support you, and of course,
(23:39):
we always appreciate your feedback and your support, so consider
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this with a fellow author who you know needs to
hear it, because your participation helps us continue delivering the
insights and the tools you need to succeed. So keep writing,
keep creating, and continue sharing your unique stories with the world.
Welcome to Author Nation Interviews. Today, we are diving into
writing to advocate, distigmatize, and create a world we want
to live in. I'm your host, Melodie Ann, and I'm
here to guide you toward actionable insights and strategies that
will help you succeed as an author while changing the world.
Visit authornation dot online to access a treasure trove of
(00:31):
resources just for you now, whether you are starting a
day with a coffee or winding down after a long day,
settle in and let me introduce our guest. Detroit born
Savannah Hawk is an author, podcaster, advocate, and ted X
speaker living a confident, visible, and successful male to female
(00:53):
cross dressing life. Her e Lit Award winning Living with
Cross Dressing book series demystifies and destigmatizes the dual gender
experience for cross dressers and their loved ones. As co
host of The Fox and the Phoenix podcast, Savannah furthers
her mission of promoting understanding, acceptance, and inclusivity in gender
(01:16):
identity and expression. She also leads workshops and has delivered
two impactful ted X talks.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Welcome Savannah, Hi, Wow, it sounds like I really want
to meet this guest of yours. They sound amazing, don't
she sound fantastic? I tell you what, it's a very
impressive resume, and that's why I'm exhausted all the time.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, exactly. Let's start with your It's actually a book series, right,
Living with cross Dressings. Tell me about the book series.
What is it about, what inspired you to write it,
and what are you hoping they'll do?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Well? There's three books now. The first one I did,
I don't know, seven years ago, and it was a
direct response to the fact that I told my girlfriend,
I'm like day one of getting serious that hey, by
the way, this chuck thing that you're looking at is
(02:16):
not all the time. So sometimes there's a thing called
Savannah and she's like, wait, what, I don't understand any
of that. So I'm like, oh, read this book, read
that book. I had not read those books. While I
had endorsed the reading of those books, just to find out,
I had shut myself in the heel by giving her
books with bad information about people like me specifically. So
(02:42):
I'm already a zombie. I have a zombie series as
well in my mail side. So I had already been
writing for several years and I'm like, I know, I
need to write something. I need to write it for
somebody who's like me, non transitioning, non fetishistic, just somebody
who likes to be feminine. And I started interviewing people,
(03:04):
couples that I knew in the New York and Long
Island area, getting their stories and basically the first book
was like, hey, let me set the record straight. That's
what it was. And I didn't intend for it to
be important. I just felt in that moment, as sometimes
you have that drive you have to do the thing,
(03:25):
and I felt like I had to do the thing,
and unfortunately for me, it ended up being very well received.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, it was obviously necessary, right, I mean, there's that's
the thing. There was a need that wasn't being I.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Felt there was. Most of the books that were out
to date were about well, there's a couple of different genres.
There's the erotica genre. And the last thing you want
your partner to find is a search on Amazon for living.
You know, my husband's across Chesser and see pages and
pages of pages of erotica. That's never good. So it
(04:05):
was filled with that, and it was filled with people
talking about cross dressing. But as part of a longer
journey transition. So if somebody is told they're a cross dresser, say, hey,
by the way, love of my life, wife of ten years,
this is what I do. And they first they don't
know what I have to ask you. They have a
preconception of what to ask you. And if they read
(04:28):
books that where every book leads to transition and that
is not your journey, then you are kind of Unfortunately,
you get stigmatized just by the reading material, even if
it's the most helpful material ever, it says oh no,
in the book, it says you're going to transition, and
you're like, but no, that's not my journey. It's like,
(04:48):
well that's what book said, so you know, sorry.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And now I'm afraid of it.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Right, It's always in the back of your mind, right.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I was afraid of Okay, good. So my next question
really is, so your book series, who is the ideal
reader for this book series. Are you speaking to mostly
the loved ones trying to understand, are you speaking to
the cross jesser who's trying to figure themselves out or both?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
The first book was for both, primarily for the crossjas
email that is a defining a new normal one. It
is stories for couples, so you've got both points of view.
It is good for kind of like a cross dressing
one on one for a spouse or a partner who
(05:40):
doesn't have any idea of the reasons why and how
long it's been around and why you do it. But
it was since it's me and I'm the writer, it
is slanted towards my world experience and like my authenticity
and how I see the world. So it is slanted
towards the male cross dress but I packed it with
(06:01):
enough stories, with my girlfriend's anecdotes and trying to be
very balanced and empathetic to both sides. The second book,
which is Discovering a New Discovering I got to look
up to say what I've done discovering your true identity.
That one is really a cross dresser primer that is
specifically for the cross dressing mail. I tend my books
(06:24):
tend to slant, and even the podcast tends to slant,
like thirty to sixty years of age. That's kind of
like the pocket because obviously at the young'ins, they know
what's going on. They don't even my help. But there
are people who've been closative for their entirety of their lives.
Misinformation grew up not understanding that this thing existed. Feeling alone,
(06:44):
that's like the target market, and I was speaking to
them in the second book.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, feeling alone or worse, self hate, right, self loathing
is a monster for sure. Yeah, exactly. All right, let's
dig into you know, we've kind of looked at all
all of the books. Now we all have a sense
of it. Let's look into you know, making a powerful book.
So what do you believe makes a powerful or book
(07:10):
powerful enough to create positive change in the world.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Wow? That's yeah. I know. I already knew these questions
were coming, and I don't know if I even have
a good answer yet because I was kind of mulling
it over because my first book, I didn't have any
intent that it was going to gain any traction. I
just felt it was something I needed to do. Even
if it sold three copies and one of them was
to myself. I didn't have any gauge of it being
(07:38):
powerful or impactful. I just knew it was needed for
myself to get out into the world, and to my delight,
people talk to me and contact me and text me
and message me all the time about its impact on them.
So the only answer I can give you is to
why these books are impactful is because I wrote it
(08:00):
from a very introspective, empathetic, kind position, Like I'm not
here to judge anybody. I'm not here to inform you
what your your journey should be. I said, this is
my experience, here's where I'm thinking about it, here's where
I'm going, this is the work I've done for myself.
(08:22):
So I think if you are honest and authentic and
empathetic and kind, and you know, a little humor goes
a long way, you're a little like self deprecating. I
think in those ways you can connect with an audience,
maybe more so than drier material. And in terms of
it being powerful, I think if your message is something
(08:42):
honest and truthful and people can resonate with that story
and say, oh my god, it's as if you're talking
about me, that in this this genre space, I think
is super super important.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, I agree. I think what makes often what makes
a book powerful is when the author is able to
be authentic and vulnerable and empathic and yet not preach,
not saying this is the path, but this is the path.
I took and maybe you can learn something from this
(09:16):
to apply to your life if you were in the
same or similar situation. Does that resonate at all with you? Oh?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Absolutely absolutely. And I can't tell you how much my
journey in life has been impacted by just listening to stories,
whether Facebook posts, whether going to a meetup group and
listening to somebody who's not even like you, just listening
to their story and their journey, and like just finding
those little tidbits that really seem like you strongly connect to.
(09:46):
I think we can find in walks of life, and
I think the problem is we spend a lot of
time You're like me, you're like me, you're like me,
So I'm only going to hang out with those type
of people, and we kind of sell ourselves short for
a learn mean and growth in being outside of what
we know the world to be. So absolutely I agree
that it's super super important to find everything that resonates
(10:11):
and then take it in within yourself and find out
how it works. I think we can all hear stories,
but not a lot of times do we listen to
this story.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, beautiful, thank you. So the other thing that and
maybe I'm wrong, but my you know. My The way
I'm thinking about it is, you know, mail cross dressing
is complex because, as you said, there are some who
are transitioning, some of who are not, some who are
into more fetish stuff, some who are not, and so
(10:41):
there's all that. Like it's it's it's not simple, it's
it's complex, and in society it's still a sensitive topic.
As you said, some people still aren't talking about their journey.
So how how did you approach that? Because I know
that you know in your books you want to want
to educate, you want to inspire, you want to empathize
(11:04):
and empower your audience. So how did you approach the topic.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Like like a doctor's thesis is I think the best
thing I could tell you I did a lot of
you know, we live in the digital age. When I
grew up, we had you know, index cards, and we
went to the library and we use a dew a
decimal system to figure out where things are. That is
not where I started learning. I learned from others, like
(11:33):
I said, and then so to write this book, even
the first book I told you about, I listened to
other people's stories and that basically ghosts wrote their stories,
and then those each of those were chapters, and each
of those told a different story of supposedly the exact
same type of person, but like, how do they interact?
(11:54):
When do they tell their wife? How did the life react?
What's the relationship look like? Now? Do they, you know,
do it together? Do they do it separately? Do they
just you do it but don't tell me? There was
even just somebody who seems on their surface exactly like me.
Every one of us had a very different experience, a
different story, So there was a lot of research. I
guess my point is research when I get into these,
(12:16):
it's not necessarily research as if I'm researching a topic.
Although my gender one on one book, the third book
of the series, is very heavy in research. But I
wanted to just like have answers for myself. So when
I wrote the second book, it was like, well, why
do I do it? I don't even know why I
(12:38):
do it? So what are the reasons, what are the ways?
What can I suss out from the internet that is
not just op eds or very like you said, very judgmental,
And let me just find out the stories and then
to start start jotting things down. What made sense to
me that way when I tell a story and say
(12:58):
this is me. By the way, there's like twenty other
things that it could be. So I'm not just saying
this is my story, learn from it. It's like, this
is my story, and here's like forty other reasons and
ways in how we show up in the world. Like
do I do it too distress after a long day
because I'm a fortune five hundred CEO? Is it an
(13:19):
escapism where I feel like I don't have any worries
in my life? Is it just a comfort? Is it trauma?
You know, there's so many reasons why none of them
are going to be su stinct to every journey. So yeah,
I research it and I find out as much as
I can, and then as it's all right alling around
in my brain because I don't do outlines. For all
(13:40):
your people who want to write, I do not outline.
I just kind of put it all down in like
a note on my iPhone and then just start parsing
it out and start typing and see where it takes me.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Nice I like that. If you want to learn more
about Savannah and her work, you can find her at
Living with cross Dressing dot com. It's on the screen
in front of you. It will be in the show
notes as well, so you can go check that out
and learn more about Savannah there. All right, My next question,
(14:13):
I know I have lots of big questions for you,
don't I. So I'd love to know some of the
lessons you've taken away from this journey. You know, you
probably walked into it not thinking, oh, I'm going to
write a whole series and I'm going to educate, and
I'm going to deal with misconceptions and stereotypes, and I'm
going to listen to many stories. But you've done all this,
So what are some of the lessons that you might
(14:36):
want to share with other authors who want to tackle
stigma or stereotypes or misconceptions or sensitive topics.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Oh you, It's funny I talk about that because my
second ted X was about misconceptions and stereotypes, and one
of the main points I made is that we, the
person projecting or making a case, is just as biased
(15:08):
and prejudice and prone to stereotyping as everyone else. Right,
So if you want to and I think you brought
it up earlier, if you want to write something that's powerful,
impactful and destigmatizing, you really shouldn't take a position of,
like you said, preaching or telling somebody how they should
do something, because that all that does is usually make
(15:31):
people dig their heels. They get defensive, they're like, why
are you telling me that? Because I don't believe it.
All of a sudden, the world views really come up,
shielding them from any outside information. And I found that
if you could be self deprecating, if you can have
an even presentation like hey, I strongly feel about it
(15:53):
this way, and also X, Y, and Z also may
be true if you have a very balanced you, some
think you get more buying for the reader or the listener,
And I think it's super important. If you're trying to
destigmatize something, you can't throw it in people's faces as
(16:14):
like you must accept me for who I am, especially
if they are not that person who has somebody in
your life that is doing this is a cross row, Samail.
If I'm just reading this because somebody told me I
had to, you're resistant. So if you make it easily
accessible and you're engaged, and you get their engagement, you're
(16:36):
going to find that you can get some ideas across.
Doesn't mean you're going to change the world. In their opinion,
but if you can make a solid, reasonable simple case
a lot of ways you're gonna say, you're gonna let
them think, And I think that's all you can ask for,
is for them to come away from it and say
huh maybe or like yeah, okay, if you could just
(17:01):
let open up the questions, then that's all you can
ask for.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah. I like how you said that. You know, if
you can get them to walk away and just think, right,
just just thinking, I think that is really powerful. And
I'm just going to add give them something to think
about and give them a story because you talked about
that earlier, giving them something to think about and putting
that in story form, because what often happens with stories.
(17:28):
We see if you can set up a story where
they can see themselves in that person in some way,
even if it's not you know, not exactly, but there's
aspects of that human that relate to their own humanness,
and then you give them another piece that doesn't relate
and something to think about. I think that's really really powerful.
(17:48):
So I love that you talked about giving them something
to think and giving them giving them stories. Thank you well, And.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
That's why sci fi. That's why sci fi is so
powerful is because we are giving so many cultural and
social commentary messages through science fiction that is such is
embedded in such a good story that it's so digestible
even if you don't realize that it's like, oh wow,
(18:18):
that's happening today. But if you're just talking about in
a way that is infused with narrative, again, sci fi
is so powerful in that way, and it's so successful
as well.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, good point. Thank you. And now I
know Savannah that you do a whole bunch of other
really cool things. You've had writing, podcasting, advocacy work. Do
I just give us a little bit about what you
do and maybe what's next for you?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Well, what's next? I am currently speaking of sci fi?
I am currently writing a young adult queer sci fi
dystopian four part series also about it was basically my
thought was, how do I write a book that science
(19:04):
fiction medium fantasy that is like my journey that if
I would have read this as a child, I would
have resonated with this character in such a just visceral
way I would have felt akin to that person. So
this series is about a young boy who is a
(19:26):
host or is targeted to be a host for earthbound
feminine fairy spirit, but we live they live in a
very Handmaid's tale world that anything outside the norm is
considered very bad. So that's what's next. I am in
the three or four books I'm editing. Then my editor
(19:48):
has book one and two. I still have to reread
book four, but I'm very excited about I'm hoping that
twenty twenty five is the year I get this series
out because I've been working on for five years. And
of course, as we all know as creatives, I already
have my next book swirling around in my head, also fiction,
(20:11):
because I just put out that gender one on one
book in between writing the Saga book series. I got
that done with like three months, so it was like,
I need to do this, I need to write N
one on one, and then went right back to writing
my young adult series. So yeah, that's my future. My
(20:31):
person future is all around being creative. The podcast we
do every week, you and I were speaking in the
back about how I have a horror live stream as
well in my male point of view, so yeah, I'm
always tapping into the things I love.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Beautiful, thank you so much. So to sum up today
from our conversation, Could you give us maybe up to
three kind of takeaways to dos for authors who are
listening and thinking, yeah, I'm excited about this and I
want to write something. Advocates, I want to want to
change the world. Can you give us kind of the
(21:08):
three to dos that we've kind of touched on today.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Well, I was out preface if by saying, if you
go in with the intent to change the world, it's
going to be I think a little too daunting and
overwhelming with that expectation for yourself. I think if you
go in with honesty, empathy, your truth as you see it,
as well as a larger, larger worldview exposure, so you
(21:35):
can almost be like a person on debateing right where
not only do you have to be able to disprove
your own view before you should have your own view.
So if you can come up with every other angle,
then you've become very rich in your storytelling, especially when
you're doing advocacy, especially when you're trying to win hearts
(21:56):
and minds. If you come in preaching, like you said,
you're not going to get the buy in. But if
you can come in and be able to ask or
answer every question thrown at you from every perspective, or
at least most, then you have a really good chance
of being heard and having those people who are hearing
(22:18):
you hear the message. So I know that's kind of
like an amalgam of three things, but just coming in
being truthful, being worldly in your knowledge base, and just
being honest and have heart and empathy about what you're writing.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, yeah, I love that. Thank you so much. Once again,
Where can we find you?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Well, you can find me at Living with Crossdressing dot com.
I'm also on Facebook at Savannah Hawk and that's ha uk.
Also Instagram at Savana Hawk. You can also find our podcast,
The Fox and the Phoenix Podcast on Spotify and wherever
else you download materials. And you can find all three
(23:02):
of my books on Amazon for print and digital download,
as well as other digital download dotloads.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Brilliant, Savana. Thank you much. Thank you so much for
joining us today.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Thank you. I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Good me too. All right, everyone, thank you so much
for listening in today. I hope this conversation has provided
you with some insights on how to really connect with
your readers when you're looking to make some sort of change,
and remember to visit authonation dot online to unlock a
wealth of resources to design, to support you, and of course,
(23:39):
we always appreciate your feedback and your support, so consider
leaving a review, a comment, and don't forget to share
this with a fellow author who you know needs to
hear it, because your participation helps us continue delivering the
insights and the tools you need to succeed. So keep writing,
keep creating, and continue sharing your unique stories with the world.
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