High-Conflict vs Therapeutic Compassionate Coaching

💔 High-Conflict vs Therapeutic Compassionate Coaching 💔 On this episode of The Awakening on NEWStreamingNetwork.com, host Tina Huggins, Divorce & “Narcissist Conflict” Specialist, welcomes Melissa Schwartzman, MA, LCSW — Divorce Mediator, Coach, Therapist, Co-Parenting Specialist, Human Resources Executive, and Career Coach. Together, they dive into the differences between high-conflict coaching approaches and therapeutic, compassionate strategies that help families navigate divorce with clarity, healing, and hope.

🌟 Key Takeaways: What makes high-conflict coaching different — and when it’s needed. How therapeutic, compassionate coaching can transform divorce and co-parenting experiences. Practical tools for reducing conflict and focusing on family well-being. If you’re struggling with co-parenting, relationship loss, or the stress of high-conflict divorce, this episode offers empowering guidance and solutions. 

🎥 Watch now on NEWStreamingNetwork.com and learn how compassionate coaching can help you move forward with resilience and peace. 

More About Tina: Tina Huggins, CTA Life Coach certified, CDC Divorce Coach, CDC Transitions Coach, CDC Recovery Coach, TKG Restorative Family Mediator Certified, TKG Family Circle Certified. I have coached for over 30 years coming from the background of law enforcement and self-defense instructor. 

Connect with Tina:
Email: [e-mail] 
Website: https://divorcecoachspecialist.com/ 

More About Melissa: With over 25 years of experience, Melissa Schwartzman is a dedicated and compassionate professional specializing in helping individuals and couples navigate the complex emotions and decisions that come with relationships, divorce, and co-parenting. Drawing on a blend of clinical therapy, conflict resolution strategies, and personal coaching, Melissa offers a holistic approach to addressing both the emotional and practical aspects of relationship challenges.

As a couples therapist, Melissa works with partners to improve communication, strengthen their bond, and overcome obstacles, whether they are seeking to rebuild their relationship or make the difficult decision to part ways. In divorce mediation, Melissa helps couples move through separation with mutual respect and collaboration, guiding them toward fair and peaceful resolutions. In addition to her expertise in divorce mediation, Melissa is also highly experienced in individual divorce coaching.

She works one-on-one with clients to provide emotional support, clarity, and practical guidance through the divorce process. Melissa helps individuals navigate the overwhelming decisions surrounding separation, personal growth, and new beginnings. Her professional experience in Human Resources, supports clients who are experiencing workplace challenges or looking to make career changes. Her compassionate, tailored approach helps individuals, couples and families thrive during transitions and beyond. 

Connect with Melissa: [e-mail] http://melissabethcounseling.com/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to WGSNDB Go and Solo Network Singles talk
radio channel, where we take a lighthearted and candidate approach
to discussions on the journey of relationship, laws, divorce, parenting,
being single, relationships, building, dating, and yes sex. Join our
listeners and begin living your best life.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
So hello and welcome to the show Awakening here on WGSNDB,
the Going Bold and Going Solo Network. The information and
the opinions expressed on the show are just that, the
informations and opinions of the individual speaking based on their
individual personal experiences. They are not intended to diagnose and

(00:47):
do not constitute professional advice or recommendations. So you know
that pain, the stress, the struggle of divorcing men and
women as they go through divorce, Well, there is a
way to find peace and sanity and assis their attorney
in this process, lowering the cost and lowering the stress

(01:09):
of the divorce through the process. My name is Tina Huggins.
I'm your divorce coach. I'm specialist divorce planning specialist, restorative
family mediator and conflicttion co parenting coach. And it's kind
of interesting because I could have read that little part
of me and just put Melissa's name in there, because,
as you will see, Melissa and I have a lot
in common. So my guest today is Melissa Schwartzmann. Did

(01:33):
I say that right?

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Messa?

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Very good, because I forgot to ask. So Melissa has
over twenty five years of experience and is dedicated and compassionate.
And is a dedicated and professional, compassionate professional who specializes
in helping individuals and couples navigate the complex emotional emotions

(01:56):
and decisions that come with relationships, divorce, and co parenting.
Drawing on a blend of clinical therapy, conflict resolution strategies,
and personal coaching, Melissa offers a holistic approach to addressing
both the emotional and the practical aspects of relationship challenges.

(02:19):
As a couple's therapist, Melissa works with partners to improve communication,
strengthen their bond, and overcome obstacles, whether they are seeking
to rebuild their relationship or make the difficult decision to
part ways. In divorce mediation, Melissa helps couples move through

(02:41):
separation with mutual respect and collaboration, guiding them towards fair
and peaceful resolution. In addition to her expertise, in divorce mediation.
Melissa is also highly experienced in individual divorce coaching. She
works one on one with clients to provide emotional support, clarity,

(03:04):
and practical guidance through the divorce process. Melissa helps individuals
navigate the overwhelming decisions surrounding separation, personal growth, and new beginnings.
Her professional experience in human resources supports clients who are
experiencing workplace challenges or looking to make career changes. Her compassionate,

(03:30):
tailored approach helps individuals, couples, and families thrive during transition
and belong and beyond, beyond, beyond. So, hello, and thank
you for being here with me today, Melissa, Thank you
for having me.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
I'm so excited. We have so much to discuss.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yes, yes, and I'm excited for us to get started.
But before we get started, I want our viewers to
understand that it's super important for you to pick the
right mediator, the right divorce coach, the right therapist. When
you are looking for that person to fit, you need
to have somebody that fits you and feels right for you.

(04:09):
So and this is important because if you looked over
Melissa and I stuff, our names could almost transpose except
for her therapy. She has a clinical background, and so
I want to make sure that you understand, as our viewers,
she stands out because of her clinical background. So when
you're looking for somebody and as I read there, with compassion,

(04:35):
she definitely fits that word and that surrounding of helping
you in a compassionate way because she has that clinical
background that so many of us other divorce coaches don't.
My background comes from a whole different direction than her,
So I wanted to make sure as our viewers that
you understood just what makes Melissa special. So Melissa, as

(04:59):
you step into the spotlight here kind of tell us
why you got involved in relationship everything here.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
Absolutely, So I actually come from a personal perspective of
why I got involved with helping people through divorce because
I went through one myself. So not only do I
understand it from my clinical training, as Tina had pointed out,
but I also.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
Know what it feels like to live it.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
So I think that unique combination of understanding it from
a clinical perspective but knowing what it's like every step
of the way really is helpful. So really, I in
my private practice, couples were really my niche and I
found that people were making decisions. It wasn't always healthy
to stay together, and people were like, well, what do

(05:50):
I do next? If I'm going to decide not to
people are asking for my help with that. So I
really needed to really understand all of the steps, all
of the processes. That's what kind of got me involved
to be an accredited mediator. And then when I'm not
helping from the mediation perspective as a coach, I'm helping
people get.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Prepared for mediation.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
But why I really got into it is because I
think divorce brings up so many emotions and people really
sometimes feel so paralyzed this life. I knew for so
long what am I going to do? And I feel
like it's so compelled to help people through that because I.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
Felt the same way, and I know.

Speaker 4 (06:33):
That it's hard to see it at first, but there
really is an opportunity to really think about how your
life can be better, different. I even go as far
to say transformed. So I'm in it to be answering
your question, but I get so.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Passionate about it all.

Speaker 4 (06:52):
I got in it to really help people really see
how they can change their lives and how it can
be different and divorce can sometimes be a way to
change for a positive way.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yes, yes, and so just like you, I mean, I've
been through a divorce. I was divorced twenty two years ago.
And then most of our viewers know that I lost
my husband a year ago, and going back through the emotions,
you know you talk about the emotions, going back through
the emotions of the loss of my husband, I was
a zombie, just a zombie. I was walking around like

(07:28):
a zombie, thinking like a zombie, sitting like a zombie,
not eating like a zombie might. And then I think
back to my divorce twenty two years ago, and I
attempted suicide it six months after I chose to leave,
so that emotional turmoil was off the charts back then.

(07:48):
Comparing that, I wouldn't want to go through either of
them again. But I can tell you that that divorce,
it almost took my life. It almost took my children's
mother away from them. So having somebody like you, and
I so wished that back then. One I would have
reached out for help because it took me fifteen years

(08:08):
to get back on my feet and that shouldn't happen.
And two that there were people like you that I
could have reached out to and said, please help me,
guide me through this, tell me what I need to
do next.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
Tina, I think that is so profound and so much
courage for you to be sharing this with everybody, because
you want people to not fall into the same way
that you did. It is so important to realize that
you're not alone in this, right and asking for help
and support so that you don't get in such a
dire way.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
Right, this is a life or death situation.

Speaker 4 (08:41):
You're talking about literally right, right right, And I think
it's important. A lot of times when people go through
a divorce, right they first want to reach out to
family and friends, and not that family and friends can't help,
but they can't help in the same way, right, that
somebody can help that has this training, especially if it

(09:02):
gets to the point where you're really feeling like you
don't want to be here, a family or a friend
might not be able to help in that way. To
really know what needs to happen in a very severe
crisis situation. Another thing that makes important is to get
that help, but also engaging with other people that are
going through the same thing. There is really such value

(09:26):
in that. I run divorce support groups regularly. I have
virtual ones and then in my town run a local one.
And the real value in that is as you're getting
help from others around.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
You, you're giving help. So is this a cuprocal thing?

Speaker 4 (09:44):
I sit there and it runs itself, right, I'm like
mediating it, kind of right, collaborating it. But people are like, well, yeah,
when that happened to me, I did this and somebody's like, wow, wow,
I didn't think about that. I even have people like
exchanging lawyers because they're like, well, I've talked to six
of them and I don't think it's worth or you

(10:06):
know what, your case sounds really simple, you.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Could do this or that.

Speaker 4 (10:10):
So I think the key thing we're talking about now
is support. You have to get support. You are not
alone in this underscore neon light flashing. This is not
something you do alone, and you need a whole team
in terms of we'll talk about maybe some other professional supports,

(10:31):
but the clinical support, the people that are going through
it as support, and of course still your friends and family,
but everybody offers a different way of support.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
All are critical.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
And back when I went through my little situation there,
I didn't have the support in my family because I
was coming out of abuse. And one of the things
that us that have been in abuse don't do is
we don't tell our family for different kinds of reasons.
Maybe we don't want them to know we are getting abused,

(11:05):
but in my case, and in a lot of people
in abuse situations case, we don't. Or I didn't want
my family to look negative at him. I didn't want that,
And in hindsight, I really hurt myself because when I
left him, it looked like I left him for another man,

(11:28):
because I did. I moved in with another man. I
had hand picked him. He was sober in AA because
I just needed the alcohol out of the outskirts of
my life, too much of that, and so family wasn't there.
But oftentimes, and I tell I just recently had a
client tell me, yeah, one of my best friends just

(11:49):
chewed my case and hung up on me. We can't
bleed all over the table throw up with our best
friend over and over and over and expect that to
just get it and be there for us. Or the
other side of that is that they add fuel to
the hatred and the emotional distress and that abusive relationship

(12:14):
only because they care but it causes problems. So I
love the fact that people and I often tell people,
you know, you need to go to marriage counseling and
they'll say, what why? Because you if you can talk now,
talking as you divorce is going to make the process
so much easier one hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (12:37):
So so many things that you said are so important.
First of all, right, people are in abusive situations. They're
always trying to protect their abuser, and they also have
a lot of shame in what's going on. So anybody
who's listening who's in that situation, please know that you
need to speak up and get help for yourself. And
there's many anonymous ways that you can do that, because

(13:00):
you don't want to keep having that cycle. You want
to get out of it. And then, like we said,
relying on your friends sometimes they're going to get each
of their breaking point. So as we mentioned, getting some
of those supports, get them and get them quickly. And
I think it's important to realize what you're saying, you know,
you have to get that counseling. So because in some cases,

(13:24):
right maybe there aren't children involved, but if you're going
to still have to figure out how you're parting ways
with that individual, and if you can get out some
of those unresolved issues or figure out how in a
best way possible to resolve some of the things that
you'll have to do through a divorce emotionally, and then
there's some of the tangible things that have to be done,

(13:44):
it'll be much better for everybody. And then, of course,
when there's kids involved, it's really really important right to
not lose sight of needing to put the kids first.
And then there's not only the first piece we talked about,
which is the emotional unpacking of you need to do
to separate ways for divorce and some of the other
tangible things like assets and things. But then when there's

(14:07):
kids involved, we need to make sure that they're not
getting the brunt of the divorce. And it's really important
that we prepare them for what has to because once
you're divorced, you're still parents, and that's another really really
tricky scenario.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yes, yes, and being able to co parent together. Most
of my you know, I wish that I had dealing
with clients like what you're dealing with. I choose to
go to the high conflicts side. I choose to go
to that side with abuse and so my people are

(14:46):
unable for a long time to be able to safely
communicate with the other. But one of the things that
I stress is is that once we can set our
boundaries and we can start working towards things, we may
not be able to co parent, but we can parallel parent,
and we can parallel parent in an awesome way, and

(15:10):
it works really well for the kids. So I love
the fact that in your scenario, that they can go
to you as a couple and work through some of
the issues that may be able to keep them together.
Because just because we call ourselves a divorce coach doesn't
mean that we're here to help you just get a divorce.

(15:32):
We're here to help you navigate the process of thinking
about it from the beginning.

Speaker 3 (15:37):
Right, absolutely, But I think that's so important.

Speaker 4 (15:40):
So in your case too, Right at least you're having
the same end goal, right, is to have people be
able to have the kids have a better situation with
an outcome. So you're working with people individually to do
this parallel process. But so important because we see so
many times that kids get caught in it and unfortunately

(16:01):
the abuse sometimes lives on, right, and you can't you
see that right, because if there is an abuser, right
that we see that that sometimes carries on. And sometimes
we have two abusers, right, Sometimes we have two abusers
in the relationships, and that's a really hard thing because
of escaping that's.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
The right, yeah, And it is hard. It's hard to
escape escape that because now we got two high conflict
individuals in there. In my case, I rarely will get
the high conflict person reach out. In all the years
I have done this work, I've only had one high
conflict person and he was reaching out to me to
make his wife do what he wanted her to do,

(16:42):
which I didn't take him on as a client for
obvious reasons. But I think something super important to let
you as the viewers know, is that you can get
to a place where you set these boundaries and stop
some of that, especially the verbal and emotional abuse, because

(17:03):
you'll no longer accept it and allow them to touch
those buttons. And so if they can't do it, eventually,
they're just going to back off and eventually die off
and stop doing that.

Speaker 4 (17:14):
That's always the shocker when the person flips the tables
mm hmm, and the person who's always seen that they
were the ones in control when they see that they're
not anymore and that they can't have the same control,
and then that dynamic, it's very interesting to see what happens.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
It's very hard.

Speaker 4 (17:34):
They can't tolerate that, and when they realize that they're
losing some of the control, they really try to fight
back harder, and if the other person stands their ground
flips the dynamic. They really see that they can't have
that same control anymore. But it takes a while because
the person who was always the person who was submissive

(17:56):
sometimes won't do it, and sometimes won't do it consists.
But when they do, it's really interesting to sit back
and watch and see that person take that strength back
for themselves.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Healing at one of my clients give me a really
great way to help the other client see things. So
she was telling me through a conversation. She says, well,
sometimes in our marriage, I had to I had to
have a persona of who I was. So I had
to be this like Xena or warrior princess person and

(18:33):
I had to visualize myself that way. So specifically with
that client, that's what she has a special name for
that persona, And so I'll say you need to step
into her, and you need to be her today. This
is where we need you today as you head into
this meeting with your attorney and you're soon to be
ex And it's it's helped a great deal in that

(18:57):
specific situation. And it's sometimes that's kind of what it takes.
We need to be somebody we're not yet able to be.
We need to pretend for a minute, exactly.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
And I think that's what happens in a lot of
these situations, especially in abusive situations.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
Right. You have these sort of other.

Speaker 4 (19:15):
Kind of alter egos, right that you're playing in these
different situations, and you lose a lot of yourself.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
And part of the work is who are you at
what time?

Speaker 4 (19:25):
And who are you going to be if you are
lucky enough to kind of get out of that abusive cycle.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
Who were you before? And then who are you after?

Speaker 4 (19:36):
Right?

Speaker 3 (19:36):
It's a lot of work.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
You know, just kind of going back over what you
said about just that it's a lot of work and
it takes a good amount of time to get there.
I'm a living example of how I was able to
set my boundaries and stop my husband. He wasn't really
being abusive at the point I left the love bombing started,

(20:03):
but then the control part came from He would go
to visit my dad, and then he would always call
and tell me how my dad was and how he
had this coffee with my dad every Saturday, and blah
blah blah. And then he would always go and check
on my mom. He would just tell her, I'm just
stopping just to check on you. And as soon as

(20:25):
I started setting these boundaries and as soon as my
parents started seeing the abusive side of him. It took time,
but pretty soon because he was calling me no less
than four times a week after I left for four years,
no less times a week and after because it took

(20:46):
that amount of time not to get the divorce, but
for me to get the strength to file for divorce.
And once I was able to set my boundaries and
able to keep them, I mean, he stopped calling altogether.
I didn't hear from him for several years in a row, actually,
And now we're able to go to our son's wedding

(21:07):
last year where we were able to have a civil conversation.
He's with his new wife, her and I had a
civil conversation and everything was good. So I am living
proof that what Melissa is saying, can happen?

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Well, bravo. Right, you took back the control m hm.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
You set boundaries and you showed him that you're flipping
the dynamic.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
Right, he's trying to do all these things. You're not
having it mm hm.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
And the difference between the four years that it took
me and how long it'll take you as a viewer,
if you reach out and get help, it's not going
to take you four years. You're going to be able
to do it within a year. It might take longer
for the other side to realize that they no longer

(21:59):
have any control, but within a year you're going to
start to see a shift in a difference. Now, if
you have kids, it's a little bit different story. Sometimes
they use the kids in that aspect, and that is
something that both Melissa and I are trained to help
you deal with.

Speaker 4 (22:17):
Yes, that's when it really becomes say, but when that
phases to that, when they realize they can't get to you,
then they're really going to get where it counts, right,
because then they're saying, this is the best next level
that they can really try. And that's really when it
gets really hard because you're like, wait now, I'll take
anything that comes my way. Right, they can do anything

(22:40):
or she can do anything to me, but not my kid.
So that's when you have the really next layer of defense.
But it's sort of the same tactic still because when
there's no response and they can't get the reaction, they
still holl back off.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
So it's extra hard.

Speaker 4 (22:58):
To do it, but the result will be the same
and there's no response, no reaction.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
It's not as fun, right it is?

Speaker 2 (23:09):
It isn't. And one of the things, you know, we're
talking about how they use the kids in the background there.
The thing that we stressed when I read Melissa's bio
is that she helps with communication. And when we work
with people on communication, especially as the parent, it's not
just with communicating to the other side, it's how to

(23:32):
communicate to that child.

Speaker 4 (23:33):
Too, absolutely, I mean, and the various ages really has
a big impact to So you have a very small child,
let's say under six, right, they can't really totally understand
everything that's happening. But you have a child who's like
a young adult, maybe even ten twelve, they start to

(23:54):
see everything that's happening. Sometimes they start to speak up
for themselves, right, but they know how much they can
speak up without backlash, and then they start to know
what the manipulation looks like. So it's really interesting to
kind of know, based on the developmental cycle, how much
impact is that the kids have by this manipulative parent.

(24:16):
And sometimes that manipulation runs out faster, but very small kids, right,
it really can be very hard because they don't even
know they're being manipulated. Yeah, and they don't, and they're
doing things that if they really knew what they were
doing to the other parent, they probably would not.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
And I'm here. In the next several weeks, I'm going
to be putting on a workshop with another divorce coach
that I work with, And I've asked her because she
she's a parent of two little girls and she divorced
a narcissistic person that uses these little girls and tries

(24:59):
to manipulate them from the background to get a hold
of mom And she has learned how to talk to
these little girls to the point that the little girls
now go, oh, that's just daddy throwing his fit, or
however they sit, that's not what mommy has taught them.
Mommy goes through and she asks questions just like we

(25:20):
as coaches are trained and then they answer their own
questions about things. And so now the little girls are
able to say that's that doesn't mean anything. He just
said that in it doesn't mean anything. She's really helping
them get an emotional IQ, a real high IQ.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
That's so powerful. I think that's so powerful to like
work backwards.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
Right, to not get angry, to not like try to
fight him, but to knowledge is power, like to empower
these girls to know. And this is such great for
like amusing young ladies right to really be independent young
women for everything the'll encounter, or even because we know
unfortunately things cycle out right often we pick mates later

(26:13):
that mirror our parents dynamic right or the opposite sex parents.
So we could see this replicating itself. But she's maybe
helping that to not happen by making these young girls aware.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
And I really do see that. I see that gir
all the time. And being able to to give love
to your children when they come home and say, you know,
Daddy or mommy said this nasty thing about you, and
being able to say, you know, to ask the child,

(26:49):
so what do you think about that? Do you think
I am that? And the child gets to recycle that
statement over and over in their head until they've rolled
the rocks to the point that they're smooth and shiny.

Speaker 4 (27:04):
And I think that's great because normally what would happen,
right is that then that other parent would probably showed
off all these texts like how dare you be speaking to.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
Me about that with the other parent? You know that
that's the.

Speaker 5 (27:17):
Cardinal rule, you don't speak anything right parents, bah bah
bah right, But that gets anybody absolutely nowhere right because
the parent who does it is going to repeatedly do
it if they're doing it already, and be said again,
usually the abusive, narcissistic.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Person, that's exactly what they wanted, right. It was almost
like planted to have it happen.

Speaker 4 (27:42):
But what we really want is to have the children
not be in the middle or really understand how they're
taking in these messages they're receiving. And this is a
great way to like flesh it out and to also
start realizing that this isn't a healthy thing for another
parent doing And then they're kind of like, uh, huh,

(28:03):
this isn't healthy. My other parent is doing this and
I know this isn't.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Good, and they're able to get to that on their
own without the parent pointing that out.

Speaker 4 (28:15):
Okay exactly, So then they come to their own conclusions
and they start to realize that this is not a
healthy behavior that my parent is doing and modeling and
so no good and something that I'm going to not
really try to fall for. And then something that I
know is not healthy if I encounter it in a
different way with other people.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
So let's kind of take a slight shift and go
into your mediation. So kind of tell us a little
bit how you go through mediation.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
Absolutely, so I really think that when people say they're
getting divorced, one of the first things they say is
I got to go get a lawyer, right, Not absolutely untrue, right,
but I think you got to think about it out
really how.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
You want to settle your divorce.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
Right, So you can go and litigate your divorce, but
there are some benefits to mediation, so you can have
a lawyer.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
When I mediate, I.

Speaker 4 (29:11):
Usually say, in most cases, you should have a lawyer
because you want to have somebody that's going to kind
of be looking at what's happening.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
So when I get a mediation.

Speaker 4 (29:19):
Client, right, we're going to do all the areas of
a typical MSA. In the divorce, we're going to look
at if there are kids, right, we need to have
a custody legal right, that's all making all the legal decisions,
medical decisions.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
But we need a parenting plan like who's residing.

Speaker 4 (29:36):
At whose house, how many days a week and all
those things. Then we need support is they're going to
be spouse and support. And then if there's children, are
we're going to have child support. And then also we
need if there are any assets, right, we need to
look at what's called equitable distribution.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Now, all states are.

Speaker 4 (29:54):
Different, so I'm speaking generally here because it varies by state,
and those are like kind of the main components. Now,
the benefits of mediation are that it's confidential, right, so
when you have a litigation, everything is open for public record.
Usually if you can not be so high conflict. There
are some high conflict couples that I've dealt with in mediation.

(30:17):
But a mediators there as a neutral party with the
end result of resolving all those issues that I said
in a way that they're serving both people. So as
a lawyer is representing each individual, the mediator is a
neutral party who understands the law of the state. And
is trying to get them to come to an agreement

(30:39):
on the matters we discussed. So it's usually less costly
because if you can get to the heart of the
matters and you can really understand what each party wants
and there's negotiation involved, right, So if someone saying I
want the beach house, I want the beach house, Okay,
well what are you gonna give up?

Speaker 3 (30:57):
Then? For that?

Speaker 4 (31:00):
Can we call it equitable because it's not always half
and half, but really the benefits are that you can
really kind of save some time, some money, and usually
the end result is that you get get it done
in a swifter way. So when I help people, when
I'm the mediator, I really not going to listen to

(31:21):
like he said, she said, you did this, you did that.
It's not an emotional so I'm not the clinician therapist
listening to all the emotional matters.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
However, I will say what.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
Distinguishes me as a mediator from warrior mediators is that
there is that compassionate side that I am applying some.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Of that where I will say.

Speaker 4 (31:45):
Let's remember, we want to make sure that we're coming
with a parent in agreement that you're actually going to
be able to do right. We don't want to make
a parent agreement that then neither one is able to
carry out emotionally and do so we send some reminders
out in the coaching aspect. Right, I helped prepare people
for mediation so that nobody walks away from the mediation

(32:06):
and says, wow, I really wanted that, or I should
have gotten that. So you really want to make sure
you're prepared when you walk in there. But it's really
a really good way that you can get through your
divorce process a little swifter, in a more economical way.
But you still should consult a lawyer to make sure

(32:28):
that you're on the right track because you don't want
to have a mediation and then get what's called a
memorandum of understanding and then your.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
Lawyer says, what did you do here? Then it just
makes sense and then it blows up.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
So yeah, so I'm trained just a little bit different
than you, and mine is restorative. So I could tell
us I could work to bring a couple together. But
so as I help a couple separate, my purpose or
job there is to help them separate as two holes

(33:02):
as opposed to two haves, And so that works great,
if we have two people that are able to be
in the same room and there's not, you know, any
abuse that's been going on. But in most of the
cases there is. So there's shuttle mediation, which you know,
I do mine over zoom, so then we have one

(33:23):
zoom room here and another Zoom room over here, and
I just take the information back and forth. And I
do also recommend in my clients they're gonna need an attorney. Now.
When they bring on that attorney is another another time frame.
You know, I tell my clients, you don't need the
attorney right away in the beginning unless I go through

(33:44):
this stuff with him and then realize, ooh, this is
we've got something here with this business that we need
some legal advice for. But we keep the lawyer out
of there as long as possible, and then bring the
lawyer in when it's time for the actual legal process
to start. But in the mediation process, when I have
lawyers present, we do what's called a fish bowl, so

(34:06):
my clients get to talk, but the lawyers don't. And
the reason for that is because it saves time, and
we only have two to four hours depending on the situation,
and we need as much time as possible to get
as much groundcovered as possible. And so if the lawyer
needs to talk to my or the clients, then they

(34:28):
just ask for permission. We take a break and I
basically leave the zoom room and they talk, and then
I give them, you know, five minutes, and then I
come back in and we just go. But at that
point then both clients get to talk to their attorneys,
and you can bring anybody else in you want, but

(34:49):
it's a fish bowl effect. And the only time I
bring other people in, or maybe even the attorneys is
when we've reached an impasse and they're both demanding their side.
So then I bring the other people in because I'm
trained in basically the Indian talking stick method. Then I
ask each person, Okay, we're trying to separate this out.

(35:12):
If this was you, what kind of suggestions would you give?
And each person gets to give a suggestion.

Speaker 3 (35:18):
I love that.

Speaker 4 (35:19):
So it's really apparent that, like, obviously the end result
is the same, Right, you're coming out with an outcome
that's going to suit best parties and you're going to
resolve the divorce. But it's interesting how it is. And
I think another similarity is I think it's called a
caucus right in the my mediation model. So also I
do a lot by zoom too, which sometimes if it's

(35:42):
a little heated, right, like the people are not actually
sitting next to each other a lot. But if there
is something that it's like unresolved, like in the zoom room, right,
we'll go with the other person and kind of say, okay,
so what do you think if there's a contentious thing
about maybe about selling the house. Okay, so tell me
what your thoughts are on this, and then I'll go

(36:02):
with the other person and then we'll come back.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
Together in the zoom to do it.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
So there's some similarities, but I definitely understand like with
the very you know, abusive situations, it definitely has a
definitely kind of component that highlights differently for sure, mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
And most of my mediations are actually done with families.
They're not so much divorced mediations, so we are working
to try and keep a family as a whole, which
is very much like you do as a therapist. Usually
in our case because I work with the State of Minnesota,
and what we do is we we've got a single

(36:43):
parent trying to parent a teenager that's in trouble. Or
we've got parents a blended family are trying their very best,
but their teenager is in trouble, and so we've got
to find a way to help the parents parent. And
that's how we do it is through this type of mediation.

Speaker 4 (37:03):
Well, it's so so important, but it's it's so it's
so hard to I'm sure it's very hard to see, right,
the impact on these teens, right, because what a result
of are the parents right? And what the how they
grew up and all these impacts and the result of that,
and I hope that the parents in some ways don't
always take accountability for that, which makes it even harder,

(37:25):
right when you get them all together to try to
salvage what you can with this family. So it's really hard,
and so you do great work, I mean really really
impressive work, and it's really so important work.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
You know, this is you know.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
At least you're doing it right.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yes, well, and our organization does it. I mean, the
organization has no problems. It's just when it's heartbreaking when
a parent just can't bring themselves to parent. They're too tired,
they're drinking too much, whatever that might be. It's just
heartbreaking to us because then we have to relieve our

(38:04):
self of this family and turn it back over to
the state, which now the child may go to juvie
and or the parent may end up in jail.

Speaker 4 (38:14):
Right that the impacts are really difficult. It changes people's
lives for could be forever. Right, the impacts could.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Be definitely, definitely changing. It's just like you brought up
that divorce can be You said this in the very beginning,
that it can be a positive thing. And you know,
as you say that, I want to emphasize here, I
get to be an example of that. I married the
most wonderful man on the planet almost well, it was

(38:47):
eight years ago that we met and we got together,
and he was the most wonderful thing to me. We
lived together, traveled together, worked together. We were together twenty
four to seven and still Bill had date night every
Friday night. It's possible, just like Melissa had said earlier,

(39:07):
it's you something so horrible as divorce can move into
something so beautiful as a new life.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
I believe it. I've seen it. I too have been
divorced a long time. I've been divorced eighteen years. This
happened a long time ago one and a half, and
I actually didn't get involved in doing all the divorced
stuff till more, you know, recently in my clinical work
and other things that kind of really came as like
the need for it. So I know a lot of

(39:38):
people sometimes do it right after they get divorced. I
kind of did it later past my divorce. But I
work with people all the time who think that their
life isn't going to be better. And I think that's
one of the most rewarding things is that people that
I started working with for life so downtrotten didn't see
like anything good.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
Like people have been married.

Speaker 4 (39:58):
Thirty years right a times, and they said that this
is what they knew. Some people would like stopped working,
devoted themselves to their family and they're like, I'm never
gonna have anything now, And I'm like, let's just wait
and see.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
Let's see what you let's see what inspires you. Let's
see what we're gonna do.

Speaker 4 (40:16):
And then they like think about things that they've always
wanted to do but never did because they were giving
to everybody. And then we start lighting a fire. And
then sometimes a little later on, like you said, they
might find somebody and they're for them, that's like a
nice partner, and then they're ignited again.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Some of them like have this sexual.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
Energy again, like they were always aren't having any intimacy
with their like marriage, and now they're like, wow, I'm
on fire, Like I mean, there are some things that
happened right.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Right right, And the fun part is is like and
you were in my case, we get to see that,
we get to hear those stories. It's so much fun.
So we're coming to the end here, So I would like,
I mean, all of your contact information is going to
be below here in the show notes, but can you
tell people how they can reach you?

Speaker 3 (41:06):
Absolutely so.

Speaker 4 (41:07):
My website is www dot Melissabethcounseling dot com and then
you can find me if you want to send me
an email Melisabethcounseling at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
So very good. So just for you viewers that don't
already know, I'm a certified divorce coach, just like Melissa is,
meaning that I'm trained in the complexities of divorce. I've
also been through an abusive relationship. My father was almost
murdered in an abusive relationship, and my late husband was
tortured in his abusive relationship. So not only have I

(41:40):
been trained, I've witnessed and experienced that part too. There
is a way out. All you have to do is
reach out. You can reach me through my email at
Coach Tina Lynn at gmail dot com, dot co A
C H t I N A L y n n
at gmail dot com. My website is Divorce Coach Specialist

(42:00):
dot com. You can find me on social media Facebook,
I'm under Tina Lynn Huggins hu gg i NS, LinkedIn,
I'm under Tina Huggins. On Instagram, I'm under Divorce Coach
Tina Lynn. And on TikTok you can find me under
divorce Tina. So can you give us give our viewers

(42:23):
a last little bit of advice for our viewers, please, Melissa.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (42:29):
I think the most important thing is to know you're
not alone in this. Don't feel like whatever's going on
that you have no one to reach out to. I'll
remind you again right finding a therapist that can help you,
finding a community resource, finding any support groups, or finding
anything that's related to your specific question.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
I you know how to find me now I'm here.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
You know how to find Tina Now we're here from
you and it's never too late to get started. So again,
don't go it alone. And it's never too late to
change your life.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
That's good advice. I like that it's never too late
because you know, so often I know with abused people,
they get in here and they're like, I don't have
the money, I don't have a place, I don't have
a job, I don't I don't, I don't. So they
stay and they stay way too long. I stayed way
too long. And when we stay way too long, we

(43:24):
just get beat down more to the point that yes,
we can't leave because there's nothing left of us to leave.
But like Melissa just said, it's never too late. Reach out,
ask for help. What may seem totally impossible to you.
We can help you pull the blinders away and help
you see the possibilities. So that's my bit of advice.

(43:47):
Reach out. You know, we offer our consultation, our first
consultation free. If we can't help you, we'll give you
some advice that can maybe send you in a direction
that you can find out help you need.

Speaker 3 (44:01):
I like that, Tina. I think i'd add and I
think you're saying it. There's always a way, always a way.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
Amen. Amen. So many people like you heard me talk
just a little while ago. When we're in divorce, we
get to that suicidal ideation. I don't want you to
be alone during that time because being alone is not
a safe place. I know I was there alone. So
I urge you to reach out to the National Suicide
Prevention Number, and that is nine eight eight. It's the

(44:31):
same number here as it is in Canada, nine eight eight,
and in the Netherlands it's one one three. So you
can get that support right now and talk to somebody
while you're sitting on the ledge. Let them talk you
off that ledge, because you're going to leave your loved
one behind and they're going to be the ones who hurt.

(44:54):
So if you are in need of a police officer,
now here in the States it's nine one and it's
also the same in Canada, nine to one to one.
It's nine nine to nine in the Netherlands and one
one two in the UK. And so get the police there.
Press charges. This is your key out of the abuse.
Once you press those charges, they have to leave the

(45:17):
home and you don't ever want to drop those charges.
You want to follow those charges through. This is your
time to start the divorce proceedings. This is a safe
moment in your life. Don't drop the charges. Oftentimes the
abuse that was before the charges will be much worse
if you drop the charges. You can also call the

(45:38):
domestic Violence hotline at eight hundred seven nine nine seven
two three three. That number again is eight hundred seven
nine seventy two thirty three. Talk with somebody, get them
on the line and let them kind of guide you
for this moment. If you're in this place, if you're
hiding next to the bed, under the bed, in the closet,

(46:01):
call them. They'll be able to help you. And if
you are unable to call nine to one one, they
can assist you with that. So please reach out for
that kind of help. I also urge you to like,
comment and share this so that it can help other people.
Thank you so much, Melissa for being here today. I
have thoroughly enjoyed talking with.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
You me too. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Great and I wish all of our viewers well. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
You're listening to WGSNDB GO and Solo Network Singles Talk
Radio Channel, where we take a lighthearted and candidate approach
to discussions on the journey of relationship laws divorce, parenting,
being single, relationships, building, dating, and yes sex. Join our
listeners and begin living your best life.