October 18, 2025 • 48 mins
Importance Of The Divorce Distinction In Property Division - Today with Guest, Kathryn Holland CFP, CDFA, RICP, LPL Financial Planner and our Host, Tina Huggins, Divorce & "Narcissist Conflict" Specialist share and discuss this very important subject.
🎥 Watch now on NEWStreamingNetwork.com and learn how compassionate coaching can help you move forward with resilience and peace.Â
More About Tina: Tina Huggins, CTA Life Coach certified, CDC Divorce Coach, CDC Transitions Coach, CDC Recovery Coach, TKG Restorative Family Mediator Certified, TKG Family Circle Certified. I have coached for over 30 years coming from the background of law enforcement and self-defense instructor.Â
Connect with Tina: Email: coachtinalynn@gmail.com Website: https://divorcecoachspecialist.com/
As a seasoned financial planner, Kathryn has dedicated her career to empowering women during one of life’s most challenging transitions: divorce. She knows from personal experience that getting a divorce is like watching your house burn down one item at a time. For her, this job is not just about numbers; it’s about rebuilding lives and helping people rise from those ashes.
Her mission is clear—to provide compassionate guidance and practical solutions to women facing divorce. She firmly believes that financial empowerment is a crucial aspect of healing and moving forward through divorce. Whether it’s untangling joint finances, understanding alimony, or securing a stable future, she's here for you to be the advisor she needed when she was going through divorce.Â
Connect with Kathryn - https://www.pacific-wm.com/team-member/kathryn-holland
🎥 Watch now on NEWStreamingNetwork.com and learn how compassionate coaching can help you move forward with resilience and peace.Â
More About Tina: Tina Huggins, CTA Life Coach certified, CDC Divorce Coach, CDC Transitions Coach, CDC Recovery Coach, TKG Restorative Family Mediator Certified, TKG Family Circle Certified. I have coached for over 30 years coming from the background of law enforcement and self-defense instructor.Â
Connect with Tina: Email: coachtinalynn@gmail.com Website: https://divorcecoachspecialist.com/
As a seasoned financial planner, Kathryn has dedicated her career to empowering women during one of life’s most challenging transitions: divorce. She knows from personal experience that getting a divorce is like watching your house burn down one item at a time. For her, this job is not just about numbers; it’s about rebuilding lives and helping people rise from those ashes.
Her mission is clear—to provide compassionate guidance and practical solutions to women facing divorce. She firmly believes that financial empowerment is a crucial aspect of healing and moving forward through divorce. Whether it’s untangling joint finances, understanding alimony, or securing a stable future, she's here for you to be the advisor she needed when she was going through divorce.Â
Connect with Kathryn - https://www.pacific-wm.com/team-member/kathryn-holland
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to WGSNDB Go and Solo Network Singles talk
radio channel, where we take a lighthearted and candidate approach
to discussions on the journey of relationship, laws, divorce, parenting,
being single, relationships, building, dating, and yes sex. Join our
listeners and begin living your best life.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello and welcome to our show, The Awakening here on WGSNDB,
the Going Bold and Going Solo Network. The information and
opinions expressed on this show are just that, the opinions
of individuals speaking based on their individual personal experiences. They
are not intended to diagnose and do not constitute professional
(00:49):
advice or recommendations. So you know that pain, the stress,
and the struggle that divorcing men and women go through, well,
there is a way to find peace and keep your
sanity all by assisting your attorney and the other professionals,
saving you thousands of dollars through the process. My name
(01:11):
is Tina Huggins. I'm your divorce Coach Specialist, divorce planning Specialist, restored,
a family mediator and conflictional co parenting coach, and today
we're graced with Catherine Holland. Catherine is a seasoned financial
planner and has dedicated her career to empowering women during
(01:33):
one of life's most challenging transitions, divorce. Catherine knows from
personal experiences that getting a divorce is like watching your
house burn down, one item at a time. For her,
this job is not just about numbers. It's about rebuilding
(01:54):
lives and helping people rise.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
From the ashes.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Her mission is clear to provide compassionate guidance and practical
solutions for women facing divorce. She firmly believes that financial
empowerment is a crucial aspect of healing and moving forward
through the divorce process, whether it's understanding joint finances, understanding alimony,
(02:25):
or securing a stable future. She's here for you to
be your advisor, and she's there when you need her
as you're going through your divorce process. So welcome, Catherine, Yah,
happy to be here. Thank you very much. So you
know I kind of told you just before we got
(02:48):
started that I remember going back through the notes and
then reading your bio and setting things up for today
and your.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Focus towards women.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
It makes me I just kind of go back through
my divorce and I just so wish that one I
had asked for help and two that I had had
somebody like you there to walk me through the process
because my healing from all of that, because I literally
I had to walk away from everything because I didn't
(03:21):
understand the mediation process and left literally he ended up
with the forty acres horse property, most of my belongings
and things like that, and I left with little knowledge
about the finances and what I was doing as I
move forward. So it took me lots of years before
(03:42):
I could get to hear. And we taught just briefly
beforehand that I focused my work towards men because men
don't have that.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Support, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
And what is so cool about being a female in
this world is that if we raise our hand and
we say hey, I need help, the rest of us
are all right there to help each other. And that
to me, it just even talking about it feels so
much better than what I went through with my divorce. Yeah, So, Catherine,
(04:15):
can you kind of tell tell us what your experiences
through your divorce were so that we understand how you
got to this place.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
I'm happy to do so, I do.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
I do want to go a little bit back to
what you were talking about in how women rally around
each other did you know there are only three species
that go through menopause.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I probably did not. I was trying to think of
what they were, so tell.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
Us the orca, the elephant, and the human, and what
that means is that we go through this.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
And I've noticed.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
I was sitting at a conference for CFAs last week,
and I noticed that most of us were women of
a certain age who had kind of gone through divorce
for the most part, and it occurred to me that
the reason we go through menopause is because we are
more valuable than just being reproductive. And what happens is
(05:19):
that matriarch or those women who've had these life experiences
in all of these species stick around to teach and
help and support the younger set, which I thought was
so cool.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
That is kind of cool.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It's kind of funny that you bring up the orca
because I didn't learn that about the orca until literally
last week. And I hadn't heard that about the elephant,
but somebody else was telling me that orcas go through that.
So I was kind of surprised when you bring that up,
as like, Okay, where have I heard this? It was
last week and we you know, I was talking with
(05:57):
one of my girlfriends about how as FEMA, we go
through that mommy, ing, loving phase in our life and
then we go through the menopause and we become, you know,
a different person just on the other side of that,
more powerful, more capable. And I see lots of divorces
(06:17):
happen just around that time frame just because of that.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yeah, yeah, great.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
Divorce is defined as divorce over the age of fifty five,
and that is the only demographic of divorce that's still increasing.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Yeah, and I can see that.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I mean, the majority of my clients, the people I
talked to, are coming in around that time frame, and
I talk to the younger people. Sometimes they'll come to
me and they're thinking about divorce, and.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
So we go back through that.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I just had had one guy that I had worked
with for a month that thought that that's what he
was going to want, is a divorce for his specific reasons.
And once we got through looking at where he was at,
because that's he's in this timeframe, right, he got a
whole different vision of where he was, where he's at,
(07:11):
and where he's headed. And as of just a couple
of days ago, he says, I think we're going to
work on this, so I'm super happy that sometimes we
can get to that decision versus the divorce decision.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
Yeah, yeah, I've had that experience too, where once we've
opened up the money situation and really discussed it and
helped people figure out how to talk to each other,
because everybody interacts with money in different ways, mostly because.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Of the way we were raised. And that can be.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Because money is won't the top reason people get a divorce.
If you can fix the communication, sometimes the marriage does last.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
I tell people, you don't go to marriage counseling to
save the marriage. You go to marriage counseling to figure
out what you want. And sometimes it's saved the marriage,
and sometimes it's not.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
And it's the same with what we do.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And it's interesting, you know, all have people tell me
when when they start in to that process. They'll come
to me shortly after they've gotten into the process of
marriage counseling and they're like, this isn't going to work.
I don't want it to work, you know, they're just
kind of forcing me in. And it's like, well, don't
look at it that way. The communication and this, you know,
(08:30):
I work in high conflicts, so communications almost nil and
should be nil in most cases.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
But if you can get.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Through the point where you can start communicating, even if
you're separating, you're communicating, that's going to save you thousands
of dollars as you move.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Forward through a divorce process.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
If you choose to have that conflict, like most of
my clients are in, then your divorce is going to
last longer. If it lasts longer, it costs more, and
it's it's just not where you want to be when
you start moving forward. So you're right that communication is
huge and very important.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
The other thing I do, and I totally took this
off topic, and I can go back to your question,
but I like to have all of my clients read
or listen to mel Robbin's new book.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
They'll let them theory. Are you familiar with that?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yes, I am.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I haven't read the book yet, but I am familiar
with what she's got in the books.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
She talks about it a lot in her podcast.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
It just it really helps people focus on what's important
and just let go of what's not, what's not important
to what we're trying to do.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
So m hm, very accurate.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
It changes a lot of the outcome just just is
not harm finding some way to get through this harmoniously
because divorce, nobody should win at divorce.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Every body should be okay.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, definitely, And that's you know, that's where you know,
in my case with my clients, they're usually divorcing somebody
who's been abusive, and you know, the keyword out there
is narcissist. And we can't diagnose somebody with as a narcissist,
but I refer to them as narcissistic. And you know,
(10:24):
that word fits with all of us at times. We
can all be narcissistic. But in the case with my clients,
that other person is just mean and does everything they
can to slow the process down, not do what they're
asked to by the courts, and they just create so
much more conflict as they move through that divorce process.
(10:48):
And that takes us back to you know, that communication.
If we can get like my side, my clients to
communicate short, informative, factual, and friendly type things, then we've
got boundary set and.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Things can be more smooth through that.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And you know, as I'm talking, I see these numbers
kind of go up in front of my face. I
am so glad that there's people like you out there,
because I'm numbers dyslexic, so if I'm writing thirty two,
it usually comes out twenty three. And so being able
to communicate with somebody that can see the numbers and
(11:29):
work with them and understand the numbers is so important.
In fact, I just did a post about that today.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
What was the post where are you posting?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Well, it was about property division, and so at the
end of that post, and I have the video aspect
on TikTok and Facebook, and then I have the written
outline of it on.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
LinkedIn today.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
But at the end of that post, I'm talking about
how important it is to talk to a financial professional
about specifically the splitting of retirements, because when I first
started learning about things, I didn't didn't understand. Like I
told you back in the day, I didn't have an
understanding of finances. So retirements and how they're put together
(12:21):
and when the taxes come out of them was something
I didn't even understand. And obviously, as we get ready
to separate our retirement specifically, there's different types of retirements
accounts and what one person may get maybe more than
the other person even though they're there the same amount,
(12:43):
but being able to use that money is different in
each in each type.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Yeah, yeah, it is very important to look at your
settlement from a tax equivalent perspective.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
For sure, one.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Thousand dollars of retirement money is different from one hundred
thousand dollars cash.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I have a client that I work with occasionally who
she took one hundred and twenty thousand dollars of a
retirement versus the cash because she thought she could get
it all at once, not knowing that she was going
to have to pay so much of that back in
taxes to be able to even use the money.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Yeah. Yeah, that's tough.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
That's tough to learn at that point in your life
where it just feels like you're constantly being kicked and
now here's just another big kick to the gut.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
And especially I would also encourage people to consider a
divorce financial professional because a lot of financial professionals and planners,
they're good at what they do, but they don't under
understand how it interplays with divorce and how they probably
(14:07):
understand all the different rules, but they don't work with
them on a regular basis. In the context of divorce
for example, four oh one k's.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
I see people.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
Take loans against their four oh one k for the
buyout if they need to, and then they also split
the four oh one k, And if you're not paying attention,
that can result in a withdrawal and a penalty from
the IRS because your four o one k loan, you're
only allowed to take up to half the value of
(14:44):
the four oh one k, and if when you split it,
it brings your loan to more than half, it automatically
triggers a distribution if you don't have money to cover that.
Cash and just little prizes like that are the things
that we're trying to help people navigate, because again, divorce
(15:06):
feels so I like to say it's very dramatic when
I say divorce feels like you're watching your house burn
down one item at a time. But the reason I
say that is because that's what it felt like when
I was getting a divorce. I felt like I was
standing on the front lawn watching people drive my couch
out and set it on fire, and you sit there
and watch it burn, and then they go in and
(15:28):
they grab the wedding album and drag it out on
the lawn and set it on fire, because that's what
you're doing, is you're looking at things and how to
divide it, and it's just so painful already. We don't
need to add nasty financial surprises to the.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Mix as well, right And you know, like I talked
about this client that says that they're thinking about that
they can work on their marriage. That was I don't
know how many times I probably told him in our
meetings over the month that that you know, divorce is
(16:06):
the worst that you will go through. It's the worst
thing that you've been through to this point. And I
know you think you want that, but before you get
to that, you've got to realize.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
How much there is here that you're going to be
going through.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
And I would never recommend a divorce to anybody that
could fix their relationship. Now, my clients are in abusive situations,
and of course I recommend divorce yesterday. They need to
be safe, we need to feel safe. And you know,
backing up into my divorce, I can say that I
am in a much better place today than I would
(16:45):
have been had I stayed in that relationship, if I
to live through it, because I don't know that I
could have allowed my life to go on with the
way things were, and no matter how much work that
we did with therapists, you know, it just seemed to
get worse and worse. And so for me it was
worth going through that. But I'll be honest, it took
(17:06):
me fifteen years to get on my feet because I
didn't ask for any help.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Yeah, well it was the same way I was. I
was so angry and ready to leave, and I just
wanted out, and so I gave up so much because
I was I was operating on high emotion. Yeah, And
that's where professionals come in, is they help, They help you,
(17:36):
and you can't just turn off those emotions.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
You can't.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
It's it is your humans, like that's we're feeling, thinking,
you like creatures. And so having somebody who's stepping back
from those emotions to help you make those decisions in
any capacity, whether it's a divorce coach or a mediator
or a lawyer, that is what's the most value part
is saying well, you can deal with those emotions and
(18:05):
I'll deal with the facts and we'll come together and
make it all work.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah, And you know, I don't when when people are
thinking about divorce, I don't recommend an attorney right off.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
The bat.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Because in the case, especially with my clients, they one
either think they're divorcing a narcissistic person or they are
divorcing an abusive narcissistic type person. And if I work
with them for usually sometimes even just two weeks, I
can tell you what type of lawyer they're going to
(18:42):
need for that you know, situation. And I help them
get their foundation laid before we go to the attorney,
which saves them a lot of money right there.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
And then the attorney gets this well put together paperwork.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And has the finances pretty much so all together for
them when they start. So the attorney now gets to
do the legal job that they have trained and loved
to do, and they don't have to deal with the emotions.
And I know you partly because you came from all
of this emotional stuff. So you make a choice to
help your clients deal with their emotions. And that is
(19:20):
what we need, probably the very most, is we're going
through this and and of course when you've got money there,
if you don't know how to do that, you don't
understand the retirements like I didn't.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
And then you're.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
In a mass because when I left, I literally left
with some clothes, a few pieces of furniture, all my
tea pots because I collected teapots, and I had some
stuff from childhood, and my car. That's what I left with.
He ended up with the horse property. A lot of
(19:57):
my family heirlooms are still there. And this was twenty
two years ago, and he ended up with the forty acres,
the house, a beautiful home, and I didn't get one thing.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I took.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Credit card debt with me and he didn't have any
credit card debt.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
All he had was that house.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
So how do you feel about that looking back on
it now?
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Oh, I made the biggest mistake of my life.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Had I known that a mediator was not there to
make things fair, they're only there to broker a deal.
Had I known that, I would I would have made
different choices and he wouldn't have the house, which is
kind of a sad thought, but it would have been
(20:50):
sold and the money from that house would have been
split between us, and I wouldn't have taken fifteen years
to get on my feet. I would have had the
financial understanding that I didn't have. And that's that's the
major piece that was missing back then.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
Yeah, yeah, that's so, so, so tough. But now do
you think that you are a lot stronger for having
spent these fifteen years rebuilding?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Definitely, And it's what helps me to be able to
help the clients that I'm working with. You know, I
have that, and you know I talk about the fact
that I focus my work towards men.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
I watched my dad.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
I pulled him out of a hospital because he was
almost murdered by his second wife. I mean, she had
shot at him several times, and in this one specific incident,
she had driven over him with a duly pickup truck.
And you know, men see things differently, well, all of
us do. When we're in the middle of that abuse.
We don't even know its abuse. It's just it's just
(21:56):
turmoil and it hurts it emotionally, kicks us into the corner.
And my dad, even to this day, cannot use the word.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Abuse in a sentence. And we had to get him
out of that situation.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I mean, at one point I proved to him that
she was going to get away with murdering him because
she had had the cops called on him enough to
basically prove that he was being abusive to her and
the cops because I had worked with them. They would
call me and they'd say, Tina, we know it's not
your dad. We know, but he won't do anything. He
(22:34):
won't say no, he won't say he didn't do it.
He won't say anything. So she was setting him up
to murder him and get away with it.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
Wild. Yeah, but it happens all the time.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yeah, every day.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
You know, we talk about abuse, and one and every
three women are abused and that's just from the people
that report, right, And then we look at the men
though it's one in every four and they report way
less than the women do. Although we do hear of
(23:12):
more women getting murdered by their ex than we do
of men. There are men that get murdered, but there's
more women. And I tell people all the time that
the most dangerous time in any relationship is the moment
you go to leave, whether that's in writing or whether
(23:35):
that's you're walking out the door.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Yeah. And then, as you say, the men don't have
the support.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
See.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
I have this theory that we need to come up with.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
A new term for.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
Feminine and masculine because it just connotes so much. But
it it is a good descriptor. But everybody has feminine
energy and masculine energy, and it's whatever energy is channeling
is going to work for against you. And if we
could figure out some neutral term for each of those
(24:16):
so that when you're talking about it, maybe men would
be more comfortable saying this is an abusive relationship and
I need to get out.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
M Yeah, as you say that, you know, I think
you remember that my husband died about a year ago.
So going back through that, he was he was he
had so much maternal type energy. He was such a
great dad. You know, he loved his kids with all
(24:45):
he had, and he did everything.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
He could to protect those kids.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And that's why he stayed in his marriage for so long,
because she was extremely abusive to him. I mean I
had to do paper investigation for his attorney. Reading through
all of his emails that she had sent. I mean,
just reading to two or three of them would tell
you that she was very abusive. But I read through
hundreds of them and it was just heart wrenching. And
(25:12):
then you know, we'll look at me. I come in.
I was raised on a ranch and I taught martial arts.
I worked on a fire department. I was I worked
with the Sheriff's department, and so I did a lot
of masculine jobs. So he and I at some points
in our days would be I would be the masculine
(25:35):
energy and he would be the feminine energy in our household.
He loved to cook and he was so sweet and
me I was, you know, opposite. But then the other
parts of the day would be the total opposite of that.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
I don't know what that term is, but I keep
wondering about Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
I had never thought about that before, but that is
kind of an interesting think about that.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
Yeah, just yeah, could we get so tied up in
just the verbiage and the vernacular of.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Things, Yeah, definitely, you know, and back up into something
you said about how important it is to get the
right type of financial advisor. I never recommend just a
financial advisor. Now, in this post that I put out today,
I did kind of say that just because it was
questions that you needed to ask. But it is more
(26:34):
important to work with a divorce person, so a cd
FA Certified Divorce Financial Analyst, than it is to just
work with any financial person, because you guys know the
complexities and I you know, that's a word that is
very true when it comes to the numbers. There's so
much complexities when we go to dividing things up.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (26:58):
Yeah, I actually have a presentation that I give to
financial advisors on why you should bring a CDFA in
if your clients are getting a divorce, because you know,
financial advisors all love to tell stories, just like doctors
and everybody, you know, when you're downloading your day around
(27:22):
the drink, the what is it?
Speaker 4 (27:23):
The well?
Speaker 5 (27:26):
And when they find out I do divorce financial analysis,
they love to tell me how how great they were
at helping their clients get divorced, and every a lot
of the times they tell me what they did and
I'm just like.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Ooh, buddy, that was that wasn't the right thing to do.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
And they don't know, but they wouldn't be telling me
about it if they knew it was the wrong thing
to do. And so it's it's really a matter of
you don't know what you don't know, right, And so
actually I've recently pivoted out of having my doing my
own wealth management practice. I still have my clients that
I had before, but I'm just doing the divorce work
(28:08):
and then referring those clients to other financial advisors once
we're done, because the specialty is so important, and so
if I can get financial advisors to understand that bringing
me in isn't a threat to their business, I thought
maybe we could save some bad decisions from being made.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah, that would be a good deal.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I sit in because I'll work with Vesta Vesta Divorce
and so they'll do different trainings throughout the year, and
one of the trainings that I love to sit in
is the one where we have the divorce financial.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Analysts teach those classes.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
And for me, it's just it's so important because as
a coach, I want my clients to get the very
best outcome for them.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
And not all of them are going to need a CDFA.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
But when they do, they do, and it's super important
for them to understand how those complexities divide up because
like I, you know, started talking earlier, then the pots,
even though you have those pots for retirement, they're not
(29:24):
equal and so somebody is going to get more money
in the end if they're not divided properly.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
And even if something to think about is one person
after the divorce is probably going to have a lower
tax bracket than the other, and so you want to
make sure you're considering that too when you're thinking about
how they're going to use the money going forward. And yeah,
and then other I mean other things, like some states
(29:52):
still charge state tax on spousal support. I know it's
not on the federal level that's gone away, but on
the state level sometimes or other states have certain advantages
to selling when you sell your house over the age
of fifty five, what are the homesteading laws there and
(30:12):
are you making sure that those protections are in place?
Speaker 4 (30:15):
And who gets those protections?
Speaker 5 (30:17):
And there's just it, there's so many details to think about.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So when my late husband divorced, was a horrible divorce aspect,
but looking back about how everything got split up, they
didn't have a CDFA in there, and of all of
the divorces I've been involved with that needed a CDFA
really bad. But they spent four hundred dollars an hour
(30:46):
on a tax accountant to advise them. I set in
on one of those meetings too, because I was doing
the paper investigation side, and I was appalled. I didn't
know enough about the numbers, but I was appalled four
hundred dollars an hour and we spent five hours in
that conversation and not one dang thing got done. She
(31:08):
went up and testified, and she wasn't considered a credible
person to testify under that situation.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
So they divided up.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
They had ten properties and it was an equitable division.
Some of the properties had to be sold because the
wife totally wanted to destroy the whole thing. One of
them flooded. She kicked renters out of another so it
set there, and then pipes broke because they froze, and
so there was two or three properties that got destroyed
(31:40):
and they had to sell I think three properties just
to pay for the fix and the taxes and everything
that she hadn't paid for seven years. She hadn't taken
care of taxes, and in the end it still wasn't complete.
He died before everything got finalized. So there was fifty
(32:01):
thousand dollars that may end up sitting and staying with
the receiver because of the way things ended.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
Yeah, Well, and that's the abusive or narcissist right. They
have to have control, and if that control is them
destroying something because now nobody else gets to enjoy it,
that's what they'll do.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, And they don't care.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
It's you know, my dad always had this little saying,
don't cut your nose off to.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Spite your face. But that's what they'll do.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
They'll cut their right arm off just to make sure
that they punish you for whatever else. Their right arm
is not worth anything to them as long as they
can punish you.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Yeah, so difficult it is.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Yeah, well, I'm sorry that happened.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
You can you know, sometimes you can claim marital waste
or marital dissipation stuff like.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
That if they know about it, you know, know about it. Yeah,
we doesn't know about it.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
And they didn't have a CDFA, And like I said,
they had this very expensive CPA, and the CPA, especially
now that I've worked with cdfas, that CPA didn't do
anything to help. And it definitely I think it probably
hurt more than it helped.
Speaker 5 (33:24):
And if you were in a conversation with them for
four hours, you probably paid for six or eight hours
because they also had to do the analysis.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Prep and everything else.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
And it was so And that was just one meeting.
I went in on that meeting. It was one of
the last meetings they had. I don't know how many
meetings they had for that. And it was kind of
interesting because when I first came on, my late husband
would say, oh, she's a high fullutant CPA, she's a
special CPA. And it's like, but she was a CPA,
(33:56):
she wasn't a CDFA.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
Yeah, yeah, And that's that's another advantage to.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
Somebody who's who knows how to stay in their lane.
And we'll say this is not my bailiwick and we
need to get another professional, and I.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Know the right professional for this.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Well, you know, looking back over that, because at that
point when I was helping him, helping the attorney and stuff,
I wasn't trained, And looking back over that, everything that
could go wrong went wrong with that. The attorney was
definitely not the right attorney for that situation. He would
(34:39):
work better writing you know, wills and things like that
up or helping amicable families get divorced, but definitely not
in a high conflict case that lasted seven years and
he paid, just him, paid over three hundred thousand dollars
for that attorney. And then the paperwork comes out, nothing's done,
(35:00):
and you can't make anything happen or get done. I like,
at one point you had to call he had to
call the police so that he could drop her belongings
off because she was refusing them.
Speaker 5 (35:14):
Yeah yeah, yeah, well, and that also brings up a
good point in that an attorney, once we've got that
stamp on the decree from the judge, considers their job
to be done and there's still a lot of work to.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Be done, definitely, especially on the financial end. And you know,
I just I just went through a divorce situation and
we're finalized, got the paperwork and everything, but now you know,
everything's needing to be done, and we're for four and
a half months past the divorce and nothing on his
(35:55):
side has been done. I had the female as my client,
and nothing on side's been done. Narcissistic people will do
everything to slow everything down, right, So I had I
had told her this process is going to be at
least nine months long to get three months worth of
work done, because that's what they were given, was three
(36:17):
months to get all of this stuff done.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
And she says, but but I can take him back to.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Court after three months, and I'm like, well, yeah, you can,
but the courts aren't really going to care too much.
You know, they're going to slap his fingertips and they're
going to say get it done, and two or three
months later it will get done. And that is I mean,
I've seen this one hundred times already.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
You know where this happens.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
It's not the judge doesn't want to throw the book
at somebody unless they need it, and it just prolongs
and takes a long time. But you talked about the
attorney being done and her attorney doesn't answer or returner
calls because.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Technically that attorney can't do too much much at this point.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
They can, you know, write the paperwork to say that
they're in contempt of court, and that's pretty much so
it Yeah, it's tough, yeah, yeah, yeah, And you know,
and then a lot of and you'll be able to
tell me what really should happen here. But a lot
(37:23):
of my clients that come in, you know, they've got
several million dollars that need to be split up and
or given to them, and it doesn't happen, and it
doesn't happen. So now we're months later, and it's been
sitting in the other spouse's account gaining all this interest
all this time, where now my client is losing all
(37:45):
that interest and it doesn't get written into the decree.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Yeah, yeah, there.
Speaker 5 (37:54):
Are so many little details that need to be put
into a decree that yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
So what are some of those things that you see
not making it into decrees that should make it in.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
A lot of times?
Speaker 5 (38:13):
I mean, so we talked about the property transfers if
it's written by somebody who doesn't have a full understanding
of that specific states rules around homesteading rules that frequently
gets missed. A lot of the mistakes I see made
(38:34):
or with four oh one ks.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
And pensions.
Speaker 5 (38:38):
Pensions are really tricky because everybody is different. When you
are an employer and you go to set up a
four A one K, you get to decide all of
the rules that you want in place within the parameters
of what the Department of Labor will allow. And so
some plans allow you to access the money before fifty
(39:00):
nine and a half if you're fifty five. Some plans
only allow one time text one time withdrawal from that
four to one K if you're the divorcing spouse without
paying that with that ten percent penalty. Some plans will
let you go to the well over and over and
over again. Some plans require that you put in the
(39:26):
divorce decree that in the event of your passing, this
goes to the spouse. We miss out on life insurance,
We miss out on making sure that the spouse has
to provide proof that they've carried that life insurance.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
So we like to get life insurance.
Speaker 5 (39:46):
If it was a stay at home spouse who's going
to be struggling to get back on their feet, we
like to get life insurance to cover that spouse will
support if the person who's paying it passes away, because
if they pass away, your spouse will support disappears, So
you get life insurance policy for that. But if the
spouse owns, if the spouse is paying, is the owner
(40:10):
on that life insurance policy, there's nothing to stop them from.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Changing the beneficiary from the ex wife.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
So we want in the divorce decree they have to
provide proof on an ongoing basis that they have not
changed the beneficiary. Just little tiny details like that that
seem like, well, it's just more effort to put it
in there, But it is more effort until it isn't.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Yeah, And you know, I have clients that have children,
and so I work on a lot of parenting plans
with them and just like these. These are things that
I make sure my clients know. Make sure you got
the insurance policy. So this client that I was referring
to just a bit ago, she has that in the decree,
(40:55):
but he took her name off of it already. She
already can see that her name is off of it,
even though he's ordered to. If he would to die
right now, she loses all of that money and he
hasn't given it to her. And that's what happened with
my late husband, is where that fifty thousand dollars. She
didn't care whether she had it. She just didn't want
him to have it. So she's just going to leave
(41:16):
it there. For whatever she was lying to the court,
she was lying to him and it was just all
of the you know, I can't get that information from
my tax accountant.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
So kind of.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
Instances like that. If you're buying a new insurance policy
to cover spousal support, you can make the owner. The
owner and the person paying the premiums don't have to
be the same person. So you make the owner of
the life insurance policy the spouse who's receiving alimony, and
then the spouse who's paying it does not have the
(41:52):
right to change the beneficiaries.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
And that's the best way to go. That's usually what
I advise.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's so many attorneys that don't know
that though, because you've come in from the money side,
being able to be able to tell the attorney and
these are things that you know. Attorneys don't mess with numbers,
attorneys don't mess with emotions. So we've got to have
the right people in the right lanes, like you said earlier. Yeah,
(42:18):
so we're getting ready to come to the end here, Catherine.
So I know that all your contact information is going
to be below this in the show notes, but can
you tell people how they can get a hold of you.
Speaker 5 (42:33):
Yes, So we are a somewhat irreverent firm. We're from California,
so don't hold that against us. But the firm name
is Cover your Assets Divorce and you can find us
at www dot cover your Assets Divorce dot com. We
have information on there, we have a podcast, and we
(42:56):
have link so you can book. Do you offer a
complimentary initial thirty minute strategy session so you could go
on there and book some time with either me or
the other CDFA in the firm, And we at least
get a couple questions answered.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
And that would be super important.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
And so I myself am a certified divorce coach, meaning
that I've been taught in the complexities of divorce, and
I've lived through the divorce and the abuse aspect, and
I've watched my own father and.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
My late husband go through this type of abuse.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
So I can tell you that understanding that abuse is
huge and most important from my end of the clients.
So you can find me or get a hold of
me through my email at Coach Tina Lynn at gmail
dot com, dot co A c H t I n
A L y n n at gmail dot com. And
(43:55):
my website is Divorce Coach Specialist dot com. And on
social media, I'm on Facebook under Tina Lyn Huggins Huggs,
LinkedIn under Tina Huggins, on Instagram under Divorce Coach Tina Lyn,
and TikTok under Divorce Tina. So, Catherine, can you give
(44:17):
our viewers a last bit of advice here?
Speaker 4 (44:26):
I think that.
Speaker 5 (44:28):
The biggest mistake people who are going through divorce to
make is not taking the time to build up confidence
for themselves or finding people who will help them with
that confidence while they're building it. Because that is what
(44:48):
you need to go into the decision making, and these
decisions are going to affect you for the rest of
your life. Don't do it emotionally, do it with confidence
and clarity, and find the right place to help you
find that confidence and clarity.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
And yeah, so my advice for our viewers is that
don't trust your financial information to come from somebody who
doesn't understand divorce.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
If you're going to bring.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
On an individual that's going to help you with your finances,
make sure that they're a certified divorce financial analyst because
understanding that word complexity of the money and the separation
of everything is super important. And we have just a
couple of states, three or so states that actually split
(45:39):
up fifty to fifty.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
If you have two houses, they just each one get one.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
But the rest of the states are equitable and equitable
states which is technically more fair in my opinion, need
to have somebody who understands those divorce numbers.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
So make sure that you get the right person.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
So as we close, I can tell you that many
people going through divorce and we get to this place
where we have suicidal ideations, and when we get there,
we need to have help. We need to have help
right here at this moment, so we can have somebody
help us back off that ledge. So please call the
suicide or the National Suicide Prevention Hotline super simple nine
(46:20):
eight eight. It's the same number in Canada again, nine
to eight eight. Talk to somebody just so that you
have a voice on the other end of that line,
so that you feel a little better and can walk
back off that ledge. Hey, in the Netherlands, can you
can reach that hotline at one one three again so
(46:41):
that you're not alone. And if you are dealing with
violence right now call nine to one one. It's the
same number in Canada too. Get the police there and
make sure that you press charges. That's your key out
of that abuse. Don't drop those charges. Once you drop
those charges, I can tell you that the abuse that
happened to put in the charges on is going to
(47:02):
possibly be worse after you drop the charges. You can
also call nine nine nine in the Netherlands and one
one two if you're in the UK, so that you
can talk to get the police there and get somebody
that you can press charges with. The Domestic Violence Hotline
is eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three
(47:23):
that number again is eight hundred seven ninety nine seventy
two thirty three and I would like to ask you
to please like, comment, and share so that this can
help other people. And thank you so much Catherine for
being my guest today.
Speaker 4 (47:39):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
It's been great, awesome, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
You're listening to WGSNDB, going Solo Network Singles Talk Radio Channel,
where we take a lighthearted and candidate approach to discussions
on the journey of relationship, laws, divorce, parenting, being single, relationships, building,
and yes sex. Join our listeners and begin living your
best life. M HM.
You're listening to WGSNDB Go and Solo Network Singles talk
radio channel, where we take a lighthearted and candidate approach
to discussions on the journey of relationship, laws, divorce, parenting,
being single, relationships, building, dating, and yes sex. Join our
listeners and begin living your best life.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello and welcome to our show, The Awakening here on WGSNDB,
the Going Bold and Going Solo Network. The information and
opinions expressed on this show are just that, the opinions
of individuals speaking based on their individual personal experiences. They
are not intended to diagnose and do not constitute professional
(00:49):
advice or recommendations. So you know that pain, the stress,
and the struggle that divorcing men and women go through, well,
there is a way to find peace and keep your
sanity all by assisting your attorney and the other professionals,
saving you thousands of dollars through the process. My name
(01:11):
is Tina Huggins. I'm your divorce Coach Specialist, divorce planning Specialist, restored,
a family mediator and conflictional co parenting coach, and today
we're graced with Catherine Holland. Catherine is a seasoned financial
planner and has dedicated her career to empowering women during
(01:33):
one of life's most challenging transitions, divorce. Catherine knows from
personal experiences that getting a divorce is like watching your
house burn down, one item at a time. For her,
this job is not just about numbers. It's about rebuilding
(01:54):
lives and helping people rise.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
From the ashes.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Her mission is clear to provide compassionate guidance and practical
solutions for women facing divorce. She firmly believes that financial
empowerment is a crucial aspect of healing and moving forward
through the divorce process, whether it's understanding joint finances, understanding alimony,
(02:25):
or securing a stable future. She's here for you to
be your advisor, and she's there when you need her
as you're going through your divorce process. So welcome, Catherine, Yah,
happy to be here. Thank you very much. So you
know I kind of told you just before we got
(02:48):
started that I remember going back through the notes and
then reading your bio and setting things up for today
and your.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Focus towards women.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
It makes me I just kind of go back through
my divorce and I just so wish that one I
had asked for help and two that I had had
somebody like you there to walk me through the process
because my healing from all of that, because I literally
I had to walk away from everything because I didn't
(03:21):
understand the mediation process and left literally he ended up
with the forty acres horse property, most of my belongings
and things like that, and I left with little knowledge
about the finances and what I was doing as I
move forward. So it took me lots of years before
(03:42):
I could get to hear. And we taught just briefly
beforehand that I focused my work towards men because men
don't have that.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Support, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
And what is so cool about being a female in
this world is that if we raise our hand and
we say hey, I need help, the rest of us
are all right there to help each other. And that
to me, it just even talking about it feels so
much better than what I went through with my divorce. Yeah, So, Catherine,
(04:15):
can you kind of tell tell us what your experiences
through your divorce were so that we understand how you
got to this place.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
I'm happy to do so, I do.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
I do want to go a little bit back to
what you were talking about in how women rally around
each other did you know there are only three species
that go through menopause.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I probably did not. I was trying to think of
what they were, so tell.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
Us the orca, the elephant, and the human, and what
that means is that we go through this.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
And I've noticed.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
I was sitting at a conference for CFAs last week,
and I noticed that most of us were women of
a certain age who had kind of gone through divorce
for the most part, and it occurred to me that
the reason we go through menopause is because we are
more valuable than just being reproductive. And what happens is
(05:19):
that matriarch or those women who've had these life experiences
in all of these species stick around to teach and
help and support the younger set, which I thought was
so cool.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
That is kind of cool.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It's kind of funny that you bring up the orca
because I didn't learn that about the orca until literally
last week. And I hadn't heard that about the elephant,
but somebody else was telling me that orcas go through that.
So I was kind of surprised when you bring that up,
as like, Okay, where have I heard this? It was
last week and we you know, I was talking with
(05:57):
one of my girlfriends about how as FEMA, we go
through that mommy, ing, loving phase in our life and
then we go through the menopause and we become, you know,
a different person just on the other side of that,
more powerful, more capable. And I see lots of divorces
(06:17):
happen just around that time frame just because of that.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yeah, yeah, great.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
Divorce is defined as divorce over the age of fifty five,
and that is the only demographic of divorce that's still increasing.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Yeah, and I can see that.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I mean, the majority of my clients, the people I
talked to, are coming in around that time frame, and
I talk to the younger people. Sometimes they'll come to
me and they're thinking about divorce, and.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
So we go back through that.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I just had had one guy that I had worked
with for a month that thought that that's what he
was going to want, is a divorce for his specific reasons.
And once we got through looking at where he was at,
because that's he's in this timeframe, right, he got a
whole different vision of where he was, where he's at,
(07:11):
and where he's headed. And as of just a couple
of days ago, he says, I think we're going to
work on this, so I'm super happy that sometimes we
can get to that decision versus the divorce decision.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
Yeah, yeah, I've had that experience too, where once we've
opened up the money situation and really discussed it and
helped people figure out how to talk to each other,
because everybody interacts with money in different ways, mostly because.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Of the way we were raised. And that can be.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Because money is won't the top reason people get a divorce.
If you can fix the communication, sometimes the marriage does last.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
I tell people, you don't go to marriage counseling to
save the marriage. You go to marriage counseling to figure
out what you want. And sometimes it's saved the marriage,
and sometimes it's not.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
And it's the same with what we do.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And it's interesting, you know, all have people tell me
when when they start in to that process. They'll come
to me shortly after they've gotten into the process of
marriage counseling and they're like, this isn't going to work.
I don't want it to work, you know, they're just
kind of forcing me in. And it's like, well, don't
look at it that way. The communication and this, you know,
(08:30):
I work in high conflicts, so communications almost nil and
should be nil in most cases.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
But if you can get.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Through the point where you can start communicating, even if
you're separating, you're communicating, that's going to save you thousands
of dollars as you move.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Forward through a divorce process.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
If you choose to have that conflict, like most of
my clients are in, then your divorce is going to
last longer. If it lasts longer, it costs more, and
it's it's just not where you want to be when
you start moving forward. So you're right that communication is
huge and very important.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
The other thing I do, and I totally took this
off topic, and I can go back to your question,
but I like to have all of my clients read
or listen to mel Robbin's new book.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
They'll let them theory. Are you familiar with that?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yes, I am.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I haven't read the book yet, but I am familiar
with what she's got in the books.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
She talks about it a lot in her podcast.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
It just it really helps people focus on what's important
and just let go of what's not, what's not important
to what we're trying to do.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
So m hm, very accurate.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
It changes a lot of the outcome just just is
not harm finding some way to get through this harmoniously
because divorce, nobody should win at divorce.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Every body should be okay.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, definitely, And that's you know, that's where you know,
in my case with my clients, they're usually divorcing somebody
who's been abusive, and you know, the keyword out there
is narcissist. And we can't diagnose somebody with as a narcissist,
but I refer to them as narcissistic. And you know,
(10:24):
that word fits with all of us at times. We
can all be narcissistic. But in the case with my clients,
that other person is just mean and does everything they
can to slow the process down, not do what they're
asked to by the courts, and they just create so
much more conflict as they move through that divorce process.
(10:48):
And that takes us back to you know, that communication.
If we can get like my side, my clients to
communicate short, informative, factual, and friendly type things, then we've
got boundary set and.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Things can be more smooth through that.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And you know, as I'm talking, I see these numbers
kind of go up in front of my face. I
am so glad that there's people like you out there,
because I'm numbers dyslexic, so if I'm writing thirty two,
it usually comes out twenty three. And so being able
to communicate with somebody that can see the numbers and
(11:29):
work with them and understand the numbers is so important.
In fact, I just did a post about that today.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
What was the post where are you posting?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Well, it was about property division, and so at the
end of that post, and I have the video aspect
on TikTok and Facebook, and then I have the written
outline of it on.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
LinkedIn today.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
But at the end of that post, I'm talking about
how important it is to talk to a financial professional
about specifically the splitting of retirements, because when I first
started learning about things, I didn't didn't understand. Like I
told you back in the day, I didn't have an
understanding of finances. So retirements and how they're put together
(12:21):
and when the taxes come out of them was something
I didn't even understand. And obviously, as we get ready
to separate our retirement specifically, there's different types of retirements
accounts and what one person may get maybe more than
the other person even though they're there the same amount,
(12:43):
but being able to use that money is different in
each in each type.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Yeah, yeah, it is very important to look at your
settlement from a tax equivalent perspective.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
For sure, one.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Thousand dollars of retirement money is different from one hundred
thousand dollars cash.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I have a client that I work with occasionally who
she took one hundred and twenty thousand dollars of a
retirement versus the cash because she thought she could get
it all at once, not knowing that she was going
to have to pay so much of that back in
taxes to be able to even use the money.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Yeah. Yeah, that's tough.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
That's tough to learn at that point in your life
where it just feels like you're constantly being kicked and
now here's just another big kick to the gut.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
And especially I would also encourage people to consider a
divorce financial professional because a lot of financial professionals and planners,
they're good at what they do, but they don't under
understand how it interplays with divorce and how they probably
(14:07):
understand all the different rules, but they don't work with
them on a regular basis. In the context of divorce
for example, four oh one k's.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
I see people.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
Take loans against their four oh one k for the
buyout if they need to, and then they also split
the four oh one k, And if you're not paying attention,
that can result in a withdrawal and a penalty from
the IRS because your four o one k loan, you're
only allowed to take up to half the value of
(14:44):
the four oh one k, and if when you split it,
it brings your loan to more than half, it automatically
triggers a distribution if you don't have money to cover that.
Cash and just little prizes like that are the things
that we're trying to help people navigate, because again, divorce
(15:06):
feels so I like to say it's very dramatic when
I say divorce feels like you're watching your house burn
down one item at a time. But the reason I
say that is because that's what it felt like when
I was getting a divorce. I felt like I was
standing on the front lawn watching people drive my couch
out and set it on fire, and you sit there
and watch it burn, and then they go in and
(15:28):
they grab the wedding album and drag it out on
the lawn and set it on fire, because that's what
you're doing, is you're looking at things and how to
divide it, and it's just so painful already. We don't
need to add nasty financial surprises to the.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Mix as well, right And you know, like I talked
about this client that says that they're thinking about that
they can work on their marriage. That was I don't
know how many times I probably told him in our
meetings over the month that that you know, divorce is
(16:06):
the worst that you will go through. It's the worst
thing that you've been through to this point. And I
know you think you want that, but before you get
to that, you've got to realize.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
How much there is here that you're going to be
going through.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
And I would never recommend a divorce to anybody that
could fix their relationship. Now, my clients are in abusive situations,
and of course I recommend divorce yesterday. They need to
be safe, we need to feel safe. And you know,
backing up into my divorce, I can say that I
am in a much better place today than I would
(16:45):
have been had I stayed in that relationship, if I
to live through it, because I don't know that I
could have allowed my life to go on with the
way things were, and no matter how much work that
we did with therapists, you know, it just seemed to
get worse and worse. And so for me it was
worth going through that. But I'll be honest, it took
(17:06):
me fifteen years to get on my feet because I
didn't ask for any help.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Yeah, well it was the same way I was. I
was so angry and ready to leave, and I just
wanted out, and so I gave up so much because
I was I was operating on high emotion. Yeah, And
that's where professionals come in, is they help, They help you,
(17:36):
and you can't just turn off those emotions.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
You can't.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
It's it is your humans, like that's we're feeling, thinking,
you like creatures. And so having somebody who's stepping back
from those emotions to help you make those decisions in
any capacity, whether it's a divorce coach or a mediator
or a lawyer, that is what's the most value part
is saying well, you can deal with those emotions and
(18:05):
I'll deal with the facts and we'll come together and
make it all work.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah, And you know, I don't when when people are
thinking about divorce, I don't recommend an attorney right off.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
The bat.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Because in the case, especially with my clients, they one
either think they're divorcing a narcissistic person or they are
divorcing an abusive narcissistic type person. And if I work
with them for usually sometimes even just two weeks, I
can tell you what type of lawyer they're going to
(18:42):
need for that you know, situation. And I help them
get their foundation laid before we go to the attorney,
which saves them a lot of money right there.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
And then the attorney gets this well put together paperwork.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And has the finances pretty much so all together for
them when they start. So the attorney now gets to
do the legal job that they have trained and loved
to do, and they don't have to deal with the emotions.
And I know you partly because you came from all
of this emotional stuff. So you make a choice to
help your clients deal with their emotions. And that is
(19:20):
what we need, probably the very most, is we're going
through this and and of course when you've got money there,
if you don't know how to do that, you don't
understand the retirements like I didn't.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
And then you're.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
In a mass because when I left, I literally left
with some clothes, a few pieces of furniture, all my
tea pots because I collected teapots, and I had some
stuff from childhood, and my car. That's what I left with.
He ended up with the horse property. A lot of
(19:57):
my family heirlooms are still there. And this was twenty
two years ago, and he ended up with the forty acres,
the house, a beautiful home, and I didn't get one thing.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I took.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Credit card debt with me and he didn't have any
credit card debt.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
All he had was that house.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
So how do you feel about that looking back on
it now?
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Oh, I made the biggest mistake of my life.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Had I known that a mediator was not there to
make things fair, they're only there to broker a deal.
Had I known that, I would I would have made
different choices and he wouldn't have the house, which is
kind of a sad thought, but it would have been
(20:50):
sold and the money from that house would have been
split between us, and I wouldn't have taken fifteen years
to get on my feet. I would have had the
financial understanding that I didn't have. And that's that's the
major piece that was missing back then.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
Yeah, yeah, that's so, so, so tough. But now do
you think that you are a lot stronger for having
spent these fifteen years rebuilding?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Definitely, And it's what helps me to be able to
help the clients that I'm working with. You know, I
have that, and you know I talk about the fact
that I focus my work towards men.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
I watched my dad.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
I pulled him out of a hospital because he was
almost murdered by his second wife. I mean, she had
shot at him several times, and in this one specific incident,
she had driven over him with a duly pickup truck.
And you know, men see things differently, well, all of
us do. When we're in the middle of that abuse.
We don't even know its abuse. It's just it's just
(21:56):
turmoil and it hurts it emotionally, kicks us into the corner.
And my dad, even to this day, cannot use the word.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Abuse in a sentence. And we had to get him
out of that situation.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I mean, at one point I proved to him that
she was going to get away with murdering him because
she had had the cops called on him enough to
basically prove that he was being abusive to her and
the cops because I had worked with them. They would
call me and they'd say, Tina, we know it's not
your dad. We know, but he won't do anything. He
(22:34):
won't say no, he won't say he didn't do it.
He won't say anything. So she was setting him up
to murder him and get away with it.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
Wild. Yeah, but it happens all the time.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yeah, every day.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
You know, we talk about abuse, and one and every
three women are abused and that's just from the people
that report, right, And then we look at the men
though it's one in every four and they report way
less than the women do. Although we do hear of
(23:12):
more women getting murdered by their ex than we do
of men. There are men that get murdered, but there's
more women. And I tell people all the time that
the most dangerous time in any relationship is the moment
you go to leave, whether that's in writing or whether
(23:35):
that's you're walking out the door.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Yeah. And then, as you say, the men don't have
the support.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
See.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
I have this theory that we need to come up with.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
A new term for.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
Feminine and masculine because it just connotes so much. But
it it is a good descriptor. But everybody has feminine
energy and masculine energy, and it's whatever energy is channeling
is going to work for against you. And if we
could figure out some neutral term for each of those
(24:16):
so that when you're talking about it, maybe men would
be more comfortable saying this is an abusive relationship and
I need to get out.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
M Yeah, as you say that, you know, I think
you remember that my husband died about a year ago.
So going back through that, he was he was he
had so much maternal type energy. He was such a
great dad. You know, he loved his kids with all
(24:45):
he had, and he did everything.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
He could to protect those kids.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And that's why he stayed in his marriage for so long,
because she was extremely abusive to him. I mean I
had to do paper investigation for his attorney. Reading through
all of his emails that she had sent. I mean,
just reading to two or three of them would tell
you that she was very abusive. But I read through
hundreds of them and it was just heart wrenching. And
(25:12):
then you know, we'll look at me. I come in.
I was raised on a ranch and I taught martial arts.
I worked on a fire department. I was I worked
with the Sheriff's department, and so I did a lot
of masculine jobs. So he and I at some points
in our days would be I would be the masculine
(25:35):
energy and he would be the feminine energy in our household.
He loved to cook and he was so sweet and
me I was, you know, opposite. But then the other
parts of the day would be the total opposite of that.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
I don't know what that term is, but I keep
wondering about Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
I had never thought about that before, but that is
kind of an interesting think about that.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
Yeah, just yeah, could we get so tied up in
just the verbiage and the vernacular of.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Things, Yeah, definitely, you know, and back up into something
you said about how important it is to get the
right type of financial advisor. I never recommend just a
financial advisor. Now, in this post that I put out today,
I did kind of say that just because it was
questions that you needed to ask. But it is more
(26:34):
important to work with a divorce person, so a cd
FA Certified Divorce Financial Analyst, than it is to just
work with any financial person, because you guys know the
complexities and I you know, that's a word that is
very true when it comes to the numbers. There's so
much complexities when we go to dividing things up.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (26:58):
Yeah, I actually have a presentation that I give to
financial advisors on why you should bring a CDFA in
if your clients are getting a divorce, because you know,
financial advisors all love to tell stories, just like doctors
and everybody, you know, when you're downloading your day around
(27:22):
the drink, the what is it?
Speaker 4 (27:23):
The well?
Speaker 5 (27:26):
And when they find out I do divorce financial analysis,
they love to tell me how how great they were
at helping their clients get divorced, and every a lot
of the times they tell me what they did and
I'm just like.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Ooh, buddy, that was that wasn't the right thing to do.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
And they don't know, but they wouldn't be telling me
about it if they knew it was the wrong thing
to do. And so it's it's really a matter of
you don't know what you don't know, right, And so
actually I've recently pivoted out of having my doing my
own wealth management practice. I still have my clients that
I had before, but I'm just doing the divorce work
(28:08):
and then referring those clients to other financial advisors once
we're done, because the specialty is so important, and so
if I can get financial advisors to understand that bringing
me in isn't a threat to their business, I thought
maybe we could save some bad decisions from being made.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah, that would be a good deal.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I sit in because I'll work with Vesta Vesta Divorce
and so they'll do different trainings throughout the year, and
one of the trainings that I love to sit in
is the one where we have the divorce financial.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Analysts teach those classes.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
And for me, it's just it's so important because as
a coach, I want my clients to get the very
best outcome for them.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
And not all of them are going to need a CDFA.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
But when they do, they do, and it's super important
for them to understand how those complexities divide up because
like I, you know, started talking earlier, then the pots,
even though you have those pots for retirement, they're not
(29:24):
equal and so somebody is going to get more money
in the end if they're not divided properly.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
And even if something to think about is one person
after the divorce is probably going to have a lower
tax bracket than the other, and so you want to
make sure you're considering that too when you're thinking about
how they're going to use the money going forward. And yeah,
and then other I mean other things, like some states
(29:52):
still charge state tax on spousal support. I know it's
not on the federal level that's gone away, but on
the state level sometimes or other states have certain advantages
to selling when you sell your house over the age
of fifty five, what are the homesteading laws there and
(30:12):
are you making sure that those protections are in place?
Speaker 4 (30:15):
And who gets those protections?
Speaker 5 (30:17):
And there's just it, there's so many details to think about.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So when my late husband divorced, was a horrible divorce aspect,
but looking back about how everything got split up, they
didn't have a CDFA in there, and of all of
the divorces I've been involved with that needed a CDFA
really bad. But they spent four hundred dollars an hour
(30:46):
on a tax accountant to advise them. I set in
on one of those meetings too, because I was doing
the paper investigation side, and I was appalled. I didn't
know enough about the numbers, but I was appalled four
hundred dollars an hour and we spent five hours in
that conversation and not one dang thing got done. She
(31:08):
went up and testified, and she wasn't considered a credible
person to testify under that situation.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
So they divided up.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
They had ten properties and it was an equitable division.
Some of the properties had to be sold because the
wife totally wanted to destroy the whole thing. One of
them flooded. She kicked renters out of another so it
set there, and then pipes broke because they froze, and
so there was two or three properties that got destroyed
(31:40):
and they had to sell I think three properties just
to pay for the fix and the taxes and everything
that she hadn't paid for seven years. She hadn't taken
care of taxes, and in the end it still wasn't complete.
He died before everything got finalized. So there was fifty
(32:01):
thousand dollars that may end up sitting and staying with
the receiver because of the way things ended.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
Yeah, Well, and that's the abusive or narcissist right. They
have to have control, and if that control is them
destroying something because now nobody else gets to enjoy it,
that's what they'll do.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, And they don't care.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
It's you know, my dad always had this little saying,
don't cut your nose off to.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Spite your face. But that's what they'll do.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
They'll cut their right arm off just to make sure
that they punish you for whatever else. Their right arm
is not worth anything to them as long as they
can punish you.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Yeah, so difficult it is.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Yeah, well, I'm sorry that happened.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
You can you know, sometimes you can claim marital waste
or marital dissipation stuff like.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
That if they know about it, you know, know about it. Yeah,
we doesn't know about it.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
And they didn't have a CDFA, And like I said,
they had this very expensive CPA, and the CPA, especially
now that I've worked with cdfas, that CPA didn't do
anything to help. And it definitely I think it probably
hurt more than it helped.
Speaker 5 (33:24):
And if you were in a conversation with them for
four hours, you probably paid for six or eight hours
because they also had to do the analysis.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Prep and everything else.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
And it was so And that was just one meeting.
I went in on that meeting. It was one of
the last meetings they had. I don't know how many
meetings they had for that. And it was kind of
interesting because when I first came on, my late husband
would say, oh, she's a high fullutant CPA, she's a
special CPA. And it's like, but she was a CPA,
(33:56):
she wasn't a CDFA.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
Yeah, yeah, And that's that's another advantage to.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
Somebody who's who knows how to stay in their lane.
And we'll say this is not my bailiwick and we
need to get another professional, and I.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Know the right professional for this.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Well, you know, looking back over that, because at that
point when I was helping him, helping the attorney and stuff,
I wasn't trained, And looking back over that, everything that
could go wrong went wrong with that. The attorney was
definitely not the right attorney for that situation. He would
(34:39):
work better writing you know, wills and things like that
up or helping amicable families get divorced, but definitely not
in a high conflict case that lasted seven years and
he paid, just him, paid over three hundred thousand dollars
for that attorney. And then the paperwork comes out, nothing's done,
(35:00):
and you can't make anything happen or get done. I like,
at one point you had to call he had to
call the police so that he could drop her belongings
off because she was refusing them.
Speaker 5 (35:14):
Yeah yeah, yeah, well, and that also brings up a
good point in that an attorney, once we've got that
stamp on the decree from the judge, considers their job
to be done and there's still a lot of work to.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Be done, definitely, especially on the financial end. And you know,
I just I just went through a divorce situation and
we're finalized, got the paperwork and everything, but now you know,
everything's needing to be done, and we're for four and
a half months past the divorce and nothing on his
(35:55):
side has been done. I had the female as my client,
and nothing on side's been done. Narcissistic people will do
everything to slow everything down, right, So I had I
had told her this process is going to be at
least nine months long to get three months worth of
work done, because that's what they were given, was three
(36:17):
months to get all of this stuff done.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
And she says, but but I can take him back to.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Court after three months, and I'm like, well, yeah, you can,
but the courts aren't really going to care too much.
You know, they're going to slap his fingertips and they're
going to say get it done, and two or three
months later it will get done. And that is I mean,
I've seen this one hundred times already.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
You know where this happens.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
It's not the judge doesn't want to throw the book
at somebody unless they need it, and it just prolongs
and takes a long time. But you talked about the
attorney being done and her attorney doesn't answer or returner
calls because.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Technically that attorney can't do too much much at this point.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
They can, you know, write the paperwork to say that
they're in contempt of court, and that's pretty much so
it Yeah, it's tough, yeah, yeah, yeah, And you know,
and then a lot of and you'll be able to
tell me what really should happen here. But a lot
(37:23):
of my clients that come in, you know, they've got
several million dollars that need to be split up and
or given to them, and it doesn't happen, and it
doesn't happen. So now we're months later, and it's been
sitting in the other spouse's account gaining all this interest
all this time, where now my client is losing all
(37:45):
that interest and it doesn't get written into the decree.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Yeah, yeah, there.
Speaker 5 (37:54):
Are so many little details that need to be put
into a decree that yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
So what are some of those things that you see
not making it into decrees that should make it in.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
A lot of times?
Speaker 5 (38:13):
I mean, so we talked about the property transfers if
it's written by somebody who doesn't have a full understanding
of that specific states rules around homesteading rules that frequently
gets missed. A lot of the mistakes I see made
(38:34):
or with four oh one ks.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
And pensions.
Speaker 5 (38:38):
Pensions are really tricky because everybody is different. When you
are an employer and you go to set up a
four A one K, you get to decide all of
the rules that you want in place within the parameters
of what the Department of Labor will allow. And so
some plans allow you to access the money before fifty
(39:00):
nine and a half if you're fifty five. Some plans
only allow one time text one time withdrawal from that
four to one K if you're the divorcing spouse without
paying that with that ten percent penalty. Some plans will
let you go to the well over and over and
over again. Some plans require that you put in the
(39:26):
divorce decree that in the event of your passing, this
goes to the spouse. We miss out on life insurance,
We miss out on making sure that the spouse has
to provide proof that they've carried that life insurance.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
So we like to get life insurance.
Speaker 5 (39:46):
If it was a stay at home spouse who's going
to be struggling to get back on their feet, we
like to get life insurance to cover that spouse will
support if the person who's paying it passes away, because
if they pass away, your spouse will support disappears, So
you get life insurance policy for that. But if the
spouse owns, if the spouse is paying, is the owner
(40:10):
on that life insurance policy, there's nothing to stop them from.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Changing the beneficiary from the ex wife.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
So we want in the divorce decree they have to
provide proof on an ongoing basis that they have not
changed the beneficiary. Just little tiny details like that that
seem like, well, it's just more effort to put it
in there, But it is more effort until it isn't.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Yeah, And you know, I have clients that have children,
and so I work on a lot of parenting plans
with them and just like these. These are things that
I make sure my clients know. Make sure you got
the insurance policy. So this client that I was referring
to just a bit ago, she has that in the decree,
(40:55):
but he took her name off of it already. She
already can see that her name is off of it,
even though he's ordered to. If he would to die
right now, she loses all of that money and he
hasn't given it to her. And that's what happened with
my late husband, is where that fifty thousand dollars. She
didn't care whether she had it. She just didn't want
him to have it. So she's just going to leave
(41:16):
it there. For whatever she was lying to the court,
she was lying to him and it was just all
of the you know, I can't get that information from
my tax accountant.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
So kind of.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
Instances like that. If you're buying a new insurance policy
to cover spousal support, you can make the owner. The
owner and the person paying the premiums don't have to
be the same person. So you make the owner of
the life insurance policy the spouse who's receiving alimony, and
then the spouse who's paying it does not have the
(41:52):
right to change the beneficiaries.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
And that's the best way to go. That's usually what
I advise.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's so many attorneys that don't know
that though, because you've come in from the money side,
being able to be able to tell the attorney and
these are things that you know. Attorneys don't mess with numbers,
attorneys don't mess with emotions. So we've got to have
the right people in the right lanes, like you said earlier. Yeah,
(42:18):
so we're getting ready to come to the end here, Catherine.
So I know that all your contact information is going
to be below this in the show notes, but can
you tell people how they can get a hold of you.
Speaker 5 (42:33):
Yes, So we are a somewhat irreverent firm. We're from California,
so don't hold that against us. But the firm name
is Cover your Assets Divorce and you can find us
at www dot cover your Assets Divorce dot com. We
have information on there, we have a podcast, and we
(42:56):
have link so you can book. Do you offer a
complimentary initial thirty minute strategy session so you could go
on there and book some time with either me or
the other CDFA in the firm, And we at least
get a couple questions answered.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
And that would be super important.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
And so I myself am a certified divorce coach, meaning
that I've been taught in the complexities of divorce, and
I've lived through the divorce and the abuse aspect, and
I've watched my own father and.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
My late husband go through this type of abuse.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
So I can tell you that understanding that abuse is
huge and most important from my end of the clients.
So you can find me or get a hold of
me through my email at Coach Tina Lynn at gmail
dot com, dot co A c H t I n
A L y n n at gmail dot com. And
(43:55):
my website is Divorce Coach Specialist dot com. And on
social media, I'm on Facebook under Tina Lyn Huggins Huggs,
LinkedIn under Tina Huggins, on Instagram under Divorce Coach Tina Lyn,
and TikTok under Divorce Tina. So, Catherine, can you give
(44:17):
our viewers a last bit of advice here?
Speaker 4 (44:26):
I think that.
Speaker 5 (44:28):
The biggest mistake people who are going through divorce to
make is not taking the time to build up confidence
for themselves or finding people who will help them with
that confidence while they're building it. Because that is what
(44:48):
you need to go into the decision making, and these
decisions are going to affect you for the rest of
your life. Don't do it emotionally, do it with confidence
and clarity, and find the right place to help you
find that confidence and clarity.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
And yeah, so my advice for our viewers is that
don't trust your financial information to come from somebody who
doesn't understand divorce.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
If you're going to bring.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
On an individual that's going to help you with your finances,
make sure that they're a certified divorce financial analyst because
understanding that word complexity of the money and the separation
of everything is super important. And we have just a
couple of states, three or so states that actually split
(45:39):
up fifty to fifty.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
If you have two houses, they just each one get one.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
But the rest of the states are equitable and equitable
states which is technically more fair in my opinion, need
to have somebody who understands those divorce numbers.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
So make sure that you get the right person.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
So as we close, I can tell you that many
people going through divorce and we get to this place
where we have suicidal ideations, and when we get there,
we need to have help. We need to have help
right here at this moment, so we can have somebody
help us back off that ledge. So please call the
suicide or the National Suicide Prevention Hotline super simple nine
(46:20):
eight eight. It's the same number in Canada again, nine
to eight eight. Talk to somebody just so that you
have a voice on the other end of that line,
so that you feel a little better and can walk
back off that ledge. Hey, in the Netherlands, can you
can reach that hotline at one one three again so
(46:41):
that you're not alone. And if you are dealing with
violence right now call nine to one one. It's the
same number in Canada too. Get the police there and
make sure that you press charges. That's your key out
of that abuse. Don't drop those charges. Once you drop
those charges, I can tell you that the abuse that
happened to put in the charges on is going to
(47:02):
possibly be worse after you drop the charges. You can
also call nine nine nine in the Netherlands and one
one two if you're in the UK, so that you
can talk to get the police there and get somebody
that you can press charges with. The Domestic Violence Hotline
is eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three
(47:23):
that number again is eight hundred seven ninety nine seventy
two thirty three and I would like to ask you
to please like, comment, and share so that this can
help other people. And thank you so much Catherine for
being my guest today.
Speaker 4 (47:39):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
It's been great, awesome, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
You're listening to WGSNDB, going Solo Network Singles Talk Radio Channel,
where we take a lighthearted and candidate approach to discussions
on the journey of relationship, laws, divorce, parenting, being single, relationships, building,
and yes sex. Join our listeners and begin living your
best life. M HM.
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