October 3, 2025 • 27 mins
This week on The Back of the Pack Podcast: Second Wind, we kick off our brand-new October series, Run if You Dare. In Episode 1, we break down why fall is considered “PR season” for runners. From cooler temperatures to lower humidity and perfectly timed race schedules, autumn sets the stage for some of the fastest miles of the year. Kyle shares his own experiences with setting personal records during fall races, and we connect how conditions impact not just performance on race day but also motivation in everyday life. Plus, we run through a list of the top fall marathons and half marathons — from Chicago to New York — that inspire runners everywhere to lace up and chase big goals. Whether you’re going for a PR, enjoying the fall air on a family run, or just watching the big city races unfold, this episode is the perfect kickoff to spooky season.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hello, everyone, greetings and salutations. Welcome back to another episode
of the Back of the Back podcast, second one. I'm
your host, Kyle Walker. Thank you so much for tuning in.
First off, before anything else, I want to thank everyone
who came out to the Chasing Rabbits run club last
night at Discourse Brewery. What a great night we had.
It was the Garmin Kansas City Marathon night. So we
(00:32):
had a representative come out from the Garment Casey Marathon
and he set up the whole table and he brought
all the swag and we had thirty three runners show
up for our little group run that night. We absolutely
took over the entire back patio after the run, like
to the point I feel kind of bad. We were
spilling out like past the gate and you technically can't
(00:54):
have alcohol past the gate, and we're like spelling out
into the parking lot because we just had so many
people and it was so full. So yeah, sorry about that,
and sorry we kind of violated policy there a little bit,
but it was great to have everyone out there. It
was a fantastic night. We gave away not one, but
two free race entries any distance at the Garmin Kins
Citney marathon, so congrats to those winners. We had t
(01:17):
shirts that were given away, we had hats that were
given away, there were stickers that you could take, and
again a great night at Discourse Brewery for the Chasing
Rabbits run Club and the garment Kins Citney Marathon night.
It was awesome. So to everyone who came out, thank
you so very much for being there. There are a
lot of new faces, a lot of people I don't know,
people I don't know from listening to the podcast or
(01:38):
from our normal running world, so that was super awesome
to see some new faces out there. I think everyone
had a good time. We have a pretty good three
mile route there, and there's a one and a half
mile option if you don't want to do the three
and you know, I don't want everyone to get bored
with it, but it's just it is such a good
three mile course. There was a little bit of hill
(02:00):
in there. It's not very busy, and if you know
the Metcalf Street here in Kansas City, Metcalf is always busy,
but we're able to find some points around it where
we're not really fighting the traffic very much. So again,
I really enjoy our course, but to everyone who came out,
Thank you so very much. It was a really fun night.
So we're going to start a new series today as
(02:21):
it is October third, and we're going to we're going
to start really kind of an October themed one. We're
going to call it the Run if you dare series,
Oh Spooky, because we are in fall. You know, we're
fully in the fall. It's past the calendar. Now as
I'm sitting here recording this, we're about to have an
eighty six degree day. We are really above normal temperatures
(02:43):
for this time of year in Kansas City. I do
see on the extended forecast that the relief is coming.
It's on its way. By next week we should be
back down into very reasonable seasonable temperatures. But right now
we're in our last game but summer and it is
not letting go without a fight. But this is going
(03:03):
to be all about, you know, October, November, December, fall
racing season. That's what we're going to talk about over
the course of this series. So all October, there's going
to be five of them. Because yes, we'll put an
episode out on Halloween. You can rest assured it is
not going to be taken seriously in any way, shape
or form. But we are going to put one out there.
But we're going to talk about fall racing because I
(03:25):
think me personally. You can disagree with me if you
want to be wrong, but I will tell anyone that
the fall racing season is the absolute best. Clearly, it
is better than winter in summer, where you have the
extremes of temperatures depending on where you're running from. And
some might argue that it is spring. Oh, it's so nice,
(03:45):
it's spring. You know what. Spring in the Midwest is
crazy up and down temperatures and never a day without
forty mile an hour wind, because that's just what happens
in the Midwest in spring. It's wind. In the fall, yes,
we are very up and down on our temperatures right now,
but it is all as much calmer. I think it
is more pleasant. And so we're gonna do an entire
series basically on fall running and so hopefully you will
(04:09):
like it. So we're gonna talk about today is why
fall is the perfect time for personal records and for
some of your better performances. So we all, most of
us know, at least I do, and I can confirm
that fall is pr season all right, You train all
summer in the heat to get to the fall, and
fall is where you pr most of the time. Like
(04:29):
our buddy Jason in the fall back at the same
Joe Half marathon, just pr. And they showed me a
picture of his Strava EPR in everything like fastest mile,
fastest five k, fastest ten k, fastest have marathon, everything
had the little gold metal next to it because he
absolutely crushed that race. Well, he did it in the fall,
(04:50):
even though it doesn't feel like fall at the moment.
Did it in the fall, but normally fall. You know,
cooler temperatures equals better performance. That is why we train
all summer, and that's why we're training in the heat
so that when the temperatures do come down, our body
responds better, like, oh wow, it's easier to run, Like
this is great. I feel I can go a lot further.
I'm not sweating as much, I'm not as uncomfortable. My
(05:12):
body temperature has not risen to the point where I
feel I might spontaneously combust. Thankfully that doesn't normally happen,
but it certainly can't feel like it on some of
those more I don't know. Warmly summer races. Also in
the fall, you get lower humidity for the most part,
Like that's the general rule of thumb. They're usually as
a part and fall east here in Kansas City where
(05:33):
we get like the rainy week or the rainy two
weeks or it's just like nothing but rain. Of course,
the humidity then is up, but usually that's what brings
the temperature's way down. So you kind of know, yeah,
I got a little more humidity, but we're getting you know,
down in the sixties, into the fifties, maybe even into
the forties. I did see in our extended forecast two
nighttime lows that'll touch like forty nine degrees. Trust me,
(05:54):
I am here for it. I am ready for it.
But lower humidity can mean easier breathing. All right, You're
lung aren't working this hard taking in all that thick
moist air, and then you're more efficient on your body cooling. Now,
some people might think, okay, well, if it's humid, that
means there's moisture in the air and your body is
sweating anyway, so wouldn't that just be more moisture to
cool your body. Unfortunately, that is not how that works.
(06:17):
As we've talked about a lot of times, the humidity
will prevent your body from sweating appropriately or the way
that it's supposed to, or what will happen is the
sweat won't evaporate, which is what actually cools your skin.
It will just stay because it's humid outside, there's no evaporation.
It just stays on you. And that is where you are.
Just it drippings with goo. When you are done with
(06:37):
a race and you don't feel any cooler, it's like
I'm sweating in death here and I am still hot.
I am still hot and sweaty and nasty and gross.
And that's because your sweat cannot evaporate off of you,
and that that's a problem. Yeah, So lower humidity, all right,
and then mini runners will peak after their summer training blocks. Okay,
(06:58):
so again you train all some and most of the time,
what we're training for all summer are those fall marathons,
your big marathons, your big races. Again, whether it be
the fall, whether it be a half or ten care
of five k that you're training for, you're usually aiming
all your summer training towards this one fall goal. And
so after all that hot time, you just you know
(07:19):
your funnel to this area and that's where it normally
you can achieve that pr because you've been training that
summer for your fall, your fall race. So uh, that's
that's you know, peak peak training right there. And then
fall races often plan they're often planned for ideal conditions,
so you know, early in the morning on a fall
day can be nice and cool. And again we've always
(07:40):
said the fifties is your sweet spot. You can get
in those fifties on a fall morning. You might hit
like a an upper forty that then during the heart
of your race gets into the fifties and again you're
just you're right in that wheelhouse of where you want
to be. So fall races and a lot of race
directors will really try and aim and look at the
calendar and look at what is usual and expected for
that area and then just try and get their race
(08:02):
right in there, right in there to hit the perfect
weather conditions. You also can get some shady courses because
the day is on as long. You know, if that
sun's kind up a little later, and of course we've
got daylight savings time coming up, you can kind of
aim to not have that direct sunlight beating down on
all your runners for the vast majority in bulk of
(08:22):
that race. So those are just some things that race
directors can consider at that time. So next one for
the runners like runners experience here. Yeah, fall is PR season.
And how do I know this because my half marathon
PR is in the fall. It is a November race
the Good Life Has You, which we have talked about before.
(08:44):
They just recently came on the show. But it's Linkln, Nebraska.
It's mid November, okay, So both of these things tend
well for good weather. Now, the first year I did it,
it was very windy, so it was a pretty breezy race.
The second year I did it, which was last year,
which is still my half marathon PR, absolutely perfect. Morning
started in the upper forties, clear skies, no big winds.
(09:08):
It warmed up pretty decent. They probably finished closer to
sixty degrees, but we spent most of our time in
the fifties run that race and it was perfect. And
again for me, a PR the only half marathon I
have under two and a half hours. Two fifty nine
to fifty baby is under two and a half hour,
not two fifty nine, I'm sorry. Two twenty nine fifty
(09:29):
is under two and a half so that I don't care.
Those were big ten seconds for me as they came
sprinting down the bridge to try and get across the
line when I saw how close I was to that
sub two and a half hour half marathon. So yeah,
fall is where prs happen. And again there are people
I know who aprred at the garment kinds. The City
Marathon again, which we've talked about a lot lately. Yes,
(09:51):
there's a lot of hills on that course, but I
can I can guar on tee what goes up must
come down. While yeah there's some uphills, you normally get
met with a pretty decent downhill after you do that uphill.
The perfect example within the first five miles of the race,
after we leave Westport and we're heading towards downtown, Yeah,
we gotta I think we gotta go Broadway a little
(10:12):
bit and that can kind of staying and then we
go down Broadway, which is nice. Then we get to
that Trinity Hill where the old Hospital Hill course used
to kind of end. But when you get to the
top of that, and again you're at the top of
Trinity Hill, you get the beautiful view of downtown Kansas City,
and you know, you see absolutely everything from the World
War One Memorial to Union Station, Coffin Center for the
Performing Arts, the Western Autos Sign, you see all of it.
(10:35):
But then you almost get a full mile of downhill
action from the very tippity top at Trinity Hill all
the way down to Union Station. Is darn near a
mile of downhill. You want to talk about a place
where you can make up some time, and if you
got a beautiful morning, then running down that hill is effortless.
I mean, the gravity is just pulling you down as
you were chugging along. The only thing I don't like,
(10:57):
and again I'm not this is not a criticism of
the race. This is just my personal piccadillos. But they
have an eight station on that hill. No, no, no,
take that eight station. Get it off the hill so
that we can just streak down this bad boy without
having to stop for water. Put it on that uphill
that comes after it. As we're heading back to the
Coffin Center or heading up to the Coffin Center for
the Performing Arts, that's where you put the eighth station
(11:19):
because we're all walking that hill anyway. That hill sucks.
But don't interrupt that long, mile long downhill. We get
again mile four leading into five. I understand that it
is like where you need to place in the eight station,
So I get it. I'm not really busting chops, but
I would say move it down to the horrible hill
up to Kaufman Center and then we're we're sitting pretty.
(11:39):
We get that whole long mile long downhill to really
catch up on your time. It was two years ago.
I think I caught up with Pacer Amy and we're
just shooting the breeze because it was so easy running
down that hill. Was it Amy or no, maybe it
was Sarah. Oh, it might have been Sarah. Sarah. W
haven't seen you at a race in a while. I'm
calling you out if you even still listen to this podcast.
(12:00):
But yeah, it's that great downhill. So yeah, so the
fall is just tailor made for prs getting good life.
Hasy for me. You might have some other ones. There's
Gobbler Grind around here, which is a November race. Normally
get decent weather on that. There was the year way
back when, and I want to say it was maybe
twenty fourteen something like that, but we got so cold
(12:23):
here in November, like right before Thanksgiving. That the big
problem with Gobbler Grind. All the eight station cups were
frozen by the time runners got to them, they were
frozen solid. It was that cold, like we had wind
chills below zero that day. It was solid water at
the eight stations for that half marathon. So that was
a little trying. That was a little too cold that
(12:45):
maybe you know, at normal times that's a pr boal race.
Not that year when the eighth station is you know,
frozen solid, that's no good. There's also a psychological boost
to cooler weather. Cooler weather makes runs feel easier, and
if your run feels easy, your confidence rises. Okay, we've
all gone out for the hot weather run where we've
(13:05):
struggled and we thought, wow, we are an absolutely shite runner.
But the reverse is true when we get to the
cooler weather and you go out there and you do
that same course, or you go run that five k
and your time comes way down on a cooler morning,
and you're thinking, Okay, you know, hey, maybe I'm not
a shite runner. Maybe I'm actually pretty darn good or
where I want to be right now. Because the cooler
weather can get you running faster again, you're not working
(13:28):
as hard, your body's not working as hard, it's not overheating,
and so you get a good time. Your confidence rises,
and then that just takes in your next race feeling good,
and then the race after that you're feeling good, and
then you're building and you're feeling better. And when you
are running with confidence, you know you always run better.
What if we said about showing up to a start
line already defeated, might as well not even run the race,
(13:48):
because you're not gonna run a good one. If you
go to that start line, you're already mentally defeated. You're
gonna be physically defeated in about thirty five to forty minutes.
You know, if you're at that five k, you show
up with confidence, you show up ready to go, and
then you're gonna be amazed and how much better your
race is. And maybe your time isn't great, maybe it's
not a new pr for you, but if you showed
up confident and you ran your race and you finish,
(14:10):
you're gonna walk away from there still with your confidence.
Unlike sometimes where you can beat yourself before you even
cross the start line. We all know that that is true,
all right, And then in many fall races, the crowd
energy is bigger and better, and the reason is it's
not uncomfortable, so people want to come out. People will
come out and support races because it's a beautiful fall
(14:32):
morning and you'll see it like twenty twenty three doing
the Memphis Marathon. They it was a beautiful morning, picture perfect,
beautiful sunny day, cooler temperatures, fall morning. It's actually in
early December race in Memphis, but it was just the
absolute perfect weather conditions. Everyone came out and all these
neighborhoods were basically having block parties. It wasn't just someone
(14:55):
standing on the road with a flag yay. No, they're
all hopping in each other's yards. They're cooking out. They've
got tents set up, everyone's got their seats set up,
there's fire pits going, and everyone's got their Sunday morning
Mimosa's working like it was a whole neighborhood party that
we got to run through. And of course they're cheering
and rant and raven and going nuts. It was great,
but it's because it was fall and it was beautiful
(15:17):
and it was a perfect morning, and so everyone shows
up for it. You're not going to get a lot
of crowd support in the dead of winter or in
the dead of summer. That is not a thing that's
going to happen. We're fully aware of it. Most of
the time. They actually loathe us, do the people in
the dead of winter or the dead of summer, because
they're just trying to go somewhere and it's either hot
or cold and we're in the way. And then we're
either hot or cold and we're in their way, and
(15:38):
we're suffering more than them, I can guarantee you. But yeah,
the crowd energy is even better in the fall because
you've got better temperatures in a better just overall condition
for people to come out. So you know, in everyday
life what this means is, you know, cooler weather makes
activities easier. So even if you're just out gardening, it's
going to be easier for you, if you're out mowing,
if you're out taking the doll for a walk. It's
(16:00):
just more pleasurable when it is nice outside. And I
know that's no Doug, I hope you really. Yeah, no,
we like we get all that, but yeah, you know,
walks are better, family runs are better. Dog walks. They
all feel better in October than they do July, and
that is no kidding. So just I would say, take notice,
all right, that's my whole point. If you're out there
(16:20):
doing just your average, every day running the mill thing,
just take notice of how much more enjoyable it is.
And then you'd be like, wow, Okay, Yeah, Kyle was right.
And I know we can't say that very often because
it doesn't happen very often, but I was right. So
we love talking about races. Of course, races are are
big thing. Let's talk about some of the bigger fall
races that are offered out there. Some you can get
(16:42):
into easily, some you can't. But getting just to show
how big of a running season fall is, listen to
the lineup of races that you can do during the fall.
Of course, Number one, the Chicago Marathon comes up in
October always Columbus Day Weekend. Chicago was the very first
star I earned the World Marathon Majors. An amazing course.
(17:02):
You go through all these different districts, all these different
neighborhoods and areas, all with very different themes and very
different fields. The crowd support is amazing, the course is
very easy as it's very flat. We talked about Chicago before.
We've done a deep dive on Chicago. If you want
to listen to that, go back and find it. But
the Chicago Marathon, of course one of the biggest ones.
Next one right behind that, No, the the New York
(17:23):
City Marathon. Yes I can talk about it. Yes I've
talked about it at nauseum before, and yes it is
still my a number one favorite race I have ever done. Yep,
the New York City Marathon. The crowd energy is second
to none. I put it up against any other race ever.
The energy from that crowd second to none. Amazing. Course,
(17:45):
you see all the coolest parts in New York, fifty
some odd thousand people and it is it is a
site to behold. Yeah, if you ever get a chance,
New York City Marathon. Number three. Where we were at
last year Berlin Marathon. Perfect weather, except I can't say
that for this year. The people who ran Berlin this year,
y'all suffered as temperatures got up to about seventy five,
(18:07):
even up to eighty degrees when some people were finishing.
That is hot. When I got to running back in
twenty twenty four, perfect conditions in the fifties the entire time, sunny,
low humidity, low wind, perfect conditions. When I did the
Berlin Marathon, and again there we were talking fifty eight
thousand people. You were jam packed, you were startine. From
(18:30):
crossing the start line across in the finish line. There
was never a point where you're like, oh, look at me,
I'm running by myself or there's just a few people around. Nope,
it is sartine can the entire time. But again, heck
of an experience. Number four, I'm gonna put in there
the Good Life Havesy because we like the good lifeasin
that's linked Nebraska Perfect November Race. They are the ones
I talked about it on the podcast. They're the one
(18:52):
they slay me with this that they have to wait
for the schedule for the Nebraska Cornhusker football team before
they can settle and win their races. So this will
be the my third year running this race. All three
years have had different race weekends, so they're kind of
all over the place. You really got to stay on
top of them to figure out when their race is
gonna run. But when it does run, it definitely behooves
you to be at their start line in Lincoln, Nebraska,
(19:14):
because it is a great race, great race experience. The
city of Lincoln shows up for their runners. All the
credit in the world to the City of Lincoln. The
Lincoln Half Marathon that we've done in May the last
two years, and the Good Life haves you. This will
be our third time. The crowd support is really good
for a random Sunday morning in Lincoln, Nebraska. Those people
show up and they show up well, so the Good
Life haves the I'm thrown out there. Let's see the
(19:36):
next one. Oh, the Philadelphia Marathon another huge race, not
one I've gotten new experience before, but it is on
the list. I think that is usually in November race.
But there's a big race in Philadelphia. There's the Houston
Marathon down in Texas, it is huge. Twin Cities Marathon
up north, they're a big one, the Richmond Marathon, and
(19:57):
then the Broad Street Run which is also called the
Cherry Blosso half. Okay, So all of these are perable races.
All of them are beautiful races. You know. You can
also throw in the Marine Corps Marathon, which fun fact,
let's talk Marine Corps for a minute. I did divulge
on Monday's episode, I'm not gonna be able to do
the Marine Corps Marathon now again. This podcast me personally,
(20:20):
we keep all politics aside. I don't care what your
side is. I'm gonna be on a person. I do
not care. You do your thing, baby, you do you.
But we are currently in a government shutdown. Okay, think
of it what you will. That is the current situation,
with no bias. We are in a government shutdown. If
(20:42):
the shutdown lasts too long because of all the people
and resources it takes to put on the Marine Corps Marathon,
it will be canceled. If the Marine Corps Marathon is canceled,
everyone gets deferred to next year and that will be
the official running, fiftieth running of the Marine Corps Marathon. Well,
(21:03):
since I have the knee issue right now and already
kind of withdrew myself mentally from the Marine Corps Marathon,
but it was too late to defer to next year
officially through the race. August thirty first was the last
day you could do that. If they cancel it and
defer everyone to next year, my registration is still as
good as anyone else's. Hmmmm, you know not that I'm
(21:26):
rooting for the government to be shut down, for people
to not be getting paid for doing the work that
they're doing, and just there's a lot of things going
on with it. I get all that for me personally selfishly.
If the shutdown wants to last through Marine Corps Marathon
and they just move it to next year and my
registration next year is still good, I'm okay with this.
I am okay with this. I would not argue this
(21:48):
at all. So if you are registered for the fiftieth
Marine Corps Marathon coming up October twenty sixth in Washington, DC,
keep an eye on the news, whichever news you prefer,
and just keep an eye on the government and what
they're doing, and if they are shut down or if
they are not, if they stay shut down for long,
y'all might be changing your October plans. Just saying just
(22:09):
letting you know, you know, maybe you get your credit
for the airline, maybe you cancel the hotel room, you know,
once that's all is decided, just whatever, throwing that out
there for what that's worth, you know. Again, no biases.
This is simply the situation that we are facing currently
as it pertains to the fiftieth Marine Corps Marathon. Okay, okay,
(22:30):
don't hurt me, don't leave a bad review. Oh my god,
he got political. No I didn't, No, I didn't. I
was talking about the Marine Corps Marathon, all right, jeez.
So anyway, so yeah, so that is our Fall running.
I love the fall I'm super excited it's here, which
is probably why we're going to talk about it for
an entire month. We'll find other ways to discuss. So
I think on the next one we're going to, uh,
(22:51):
we're going to do the spooky side of running. Okay,
We're going to talk about like the spookiest races out
there and the most Halloween theme you know, creepy ones,
and they're they're definitely some now, you know. I don't
know if we might mention like Beat the Blurch. You know,
there's the Beat the Blurch race, and that's been talked
about very recently. I think people are signing up for
next year. It's just where this this creature, the Blurch
(23:14):
whatever the hell you want to call it, like starts
at the end and then chases the runners and like
you you, the whole point, you know, is for the
person in the blurch outfit to beat as many runners
as they can, and so you want to beat the
blurch sounds ridiculous. I'm in you know, that's definitely a
race I want to do sometimes. So now that's just
(23:34):
an example of some of the races and stuff we
we're gonna cover next week on the the spookier and
creepier race side. But really, you know, for today, we
love the fall. Fall conditions are great. Your fall conditions
plus your training in the hard months are gonna make
your prs very attainable in this running season. If you
really stuck it out in summer, you're gonna be amazed
(23:56):
at hell well you do in the fall, and I'm
here for it. If you pr this fall perfect, you
know you crushed your summer running and now this is
kind of the reward, the big over the top races,
the ones with sixty thousand runners, and then you pring
on top of it like perfect. Man. It doesn't get
any better than that. So again, thank you to everyone
(24:17):
who came out to the Chasing Rabbits run club last night.
That was super fun. Our next time is going to
be October sixteenth. Now, October sixteenth is also the first
day of the Garman Kansas City Marathon Expo, I'm gonna
be at the expo, and as soon as we're done
at the expo, I'm gonna be dead and heading over
to Discourse Brewery to at least join everyone for their
post run beer. I will not be there when everyone
(24:40):
starts the run, but thankfully we got Bill. Bill's gonna
be in charge. He's gonna get everyone shot off in
the right direction, and then I'll be there when everyone
finishes up. So we will have fun with that. And
that's really going to be your last run before you
do anything. On Saturday the eighteenth, for the Garment Kins
City Marathon again, whether you're doing the full, the half,
the ten, or the five, because they offer everything and
(25:01):
then make sure you stay after the race, reason being
they have the six hour celebration. So I am going
to be there as a representative of both the Back
of the Pack podcast and the Chasing Rabbits run Club.
We're gonna probably set up our little tent and we're
gonna be along the finishing shoot and we're gonna stay
and we are going to very passionately cheer on those
(25:23):
people who are in the last hour of the marathon.
So from noon to one, all those people, all of
us back of the packers who are coming in on
that full finish, in the full, in the last hour
of that race, we're gonna be there and we're gonna
make a big old scene for him, and we're gonna
be cheering, and we're gonna be ringing bells, and we're
gonna just have a good old time. They have asked
run clubs and people to stay behind specifically to cheer
(25:47):
in those last hour. People, Well, you talking to the
right crowd here. I'm one hundred percent going to be there.
So I'm gonna finish my half marathon. I'm gonna have
my post race beer and barbecue sandwich, and then I
am heading to the finish line where we are gonna
set up shop and we're gonna make sure we cheer
on everyone coming in in that last hour of the
full marathon, right right. So I hope, I hope, hope,
(26:09):
hope you will decide to join me for this and
not just finish your race and run off down the road.
And I get it makes for a long day, but
it's gonna be worth it. And I know how much
it means to last hour full marathon ers to at
least have somebody someone there that will cheer them on
as they cross the finish line and they're not just
running down in empty shoot with a bunch of people
(26:30):
walking away, because we all know how much that sucks.
So no, we're gonna be there and we're gonna make
a scene for these folks. We're gonna get them across
that finish line because they will have done something amazing
that day and we're gonna be there to celebrate it.
So that's gonna do it. For this week's episode of
the Back of the Back Podcast, second one, I'm a
sky Walker. Thank you very much for tuning in. Everyone,
have a safe week of training. We'll see you Monday
(26:50):
on a brand new episode of the Back of the
Back Podcast. Otherwise, I have a safe we can train it.
We'll see you next week. Papa Ustino past Master Pa
Hello, everyone, greetings and salutations. Welcome back to another episode
of the Back of the Back podcast, second one. I'm
your host, Kyle Walker. Thank you so much for tuning in.
First off, before anything else, I want to thank everyone
who came out to the Chasing Rabbits run club last
night at Discourse Brewery. What a great night we had.
It was the Garmin Kansas City Marathon night. So we
(00:32):
had a representative come out from the Garment Casey Marathon
and he set up the whole table and he brought
all the swag and we had thirty three runners show
up for our little group run that night. We absolutely
took over the entire back patio after the run, like
to the point I feel kind of bad. We were
spilling out like past the gate and you technically can't
(00:54):
have alcohol past the gate, and we're like spelling out
into the parking lot because we just had so many
people and it was so full. So yeah, sorry about that,
and sorry we kind of violated policy there a little bit,
but it was great to have everyone out there. It
was a fantastic night. We gave away not one, but
two free race entries any distance at the Garmin Kins
Citney marathon, so congrats to those winners. We had t
(01:17):
shirts that were given away, we had hats that were
given away, there were stickers that you could take, and
again a great night at Discourse Brewery for the Chasing
Rabbits run Club and the garment Kins Citney Marathon night.
It was awesome. So to everyone who came out, thank
you so very much for being there. There are a
lot of new faces, a lot of people I don't know,
people I don't know from listening to the podcast or
(01:38):
from our normal running world, so that was super awesome
to see some new faces out there. I think everyone
had a good time. We have a pretty good three
mile route there, and there's a one and a half
mile option if you don't want to do the three
and you know, I don't want everyone to get bored
with it, but it's just it is such a good
three mile course. There was a little bit of hill
(02:00):
in there. It's not very busy, and if you know
the Metcalf Street here in Kansas City, Metcalf is always busy,
but we're able to find some points around it where
we're not really fighting the traffic very much. So again,
I really enjoy our course, but to everyone who came out,
Thank you so very much. It was a really fun night.
So we're going to start a new series today as
(02:21):
it is October third, and we're going to we're going
to start really kind of an October themed one. We're
going to call it the Run if you dare series,
Oh Spooky, because we are in fall. You know, we're
fully in the fall. It's past the calendar. Now as
I'm sitting here recording this, we're about to have an
eighty six degree day. We are really above normal temperatures
(02:43):
for this time of year in Kansas City. I do
see on the extended forecast that the relief is coming.
It's on its way. By next week we should be
back down into very reasonable seasonable temperatures. But right now
we're in our last game but summer and it is
not letting go without a fight. But this is going
(03:03):
to be all about, you know, October, November, December, fall
racing season. That's what we're going to talk about over
the course of this series. So all October, there's going
to be five of them. Because yes, we'll put an
episode out on Halloween. You can rest assured it is
not going to be taken seriously in any way, shape
or form. But we are going to put one out there.
But we're going to talk about fall racing because I
(03:25):
think me personally. You can disagree with me if you
want to be wrong, but I will tell anyone that
the fall racing season is the absolute best. Clearly, it
is better than winter in summer, where you have the
extremes of temperatures depending on where you're running from. And
some might argue that it is spring. Oh, it's so nice,
(03:45):
it's spring. You know what. Spring in the Midwest is
crazy up and down temperatures and never a day without
forty mile an hour wind, because that's just what happens
in the Midwest in spring. It's wind. In the fall, yes,
we are very up and down on our temperatures right now,
but it is all as much calmer. I think it
is more pleasant. And so we're gonna do an entire
series basically on fall running and so hopefully you will
(04:09):
like it. So we're gonna talk about today is why
fall is the perfect time for personal records and for
some of your better performances. So we all, most of
us know, at least I do, and I can confirm
that fall is pr season all right, You train all
summer in the heat to get to the fall, and
fall is where you pr most of the time. Like
(04:29):
our buddy Jason in the fall back at the same
Joe Half marathon, just pr. And they showed me a
picture of his Strava EPR in everything like fastest mile,
fastest five k, fastest ten k, fastest have marathon, everything
had the little gold metal next to it because he
absolutely crushed that race. Well, he did it in the fall,
(04:50):
even though it doesn't feel like fall at the moment.
Did it in the fall, but normally fall. You know,
cooler temperatures equals better performance. That is why we train
all summer, and that's why we're training in the heat
so that when the temperatures do come down, our body
responds better, like, oh wow, it's easier to run, Like
this is great. I feel I can go a lot further.
I'm not sweating as much, I'm not as uncomfortable. My
(05:12):
body temperature has not risen to the point where I
feel I might spontaneously combust. Thankfully that doesn't normally happen,
but it certainly can't feel like it on some of
those more I don't know. Warmly summer races. Also in
the fall, you get lower humidity for the most part,
Like that's the general rule of thumb. They're usually as
a part and fall east here in Kansas City where
(05:33):
we get like the rainy week or the rainy two
weeks or it's just like nothing but rain. Of course,
the humidity then is up, but usually that's what brings
the temperature's way down. So you kind of know, yeah,
I got a little more humidity, but we're getting you know,
down in the sixties, into the fifties, maybe even into
the forties. I did see in our extended forecast two
nighttime lows that'll touch like forty nine degrees. Trust me,
(05:54):
I am here for it. I am ready for it.
But lower humidity can mean easier breathing. All right, You're
lung aren't working this hard taking in all that thick
moist air, and then you're more efficient on your body cooling. Now,
some people might think, okay, well, if it's humid, that
means there's moisture in the air and your body is
sweating anyway, so wouldn't that just be more moisture to
cool your body. Unfortunately, that is not how that works.
(06:17):
As we've talked about a lot of times, the humidity
will prevent your body from sweating appropriately or the way
that it's supposed to, or what will happen is the
sweat won't evaporate, which is what actually cools your skin.
It will just stay because it's humid outside, there's no evaporation.
It just stays on you. And that is where you are.
Just it drippings with goo. When you are done with
(06:37):
a race and you don't feel any cooler, it's like
I'm sweating in death here and I am still hot.
I am still hot and sweaty and nasty and gross.
And that's because your sweat cannot evaporate off of you,
and that that's a problem. Yeah, So lower humidity, all right,
and then mini runners will peak after their summer training blocks. Okay,
(06:58):
so again you train all some and most of the time,
what we're training for all summer are those fall marathons,
your big marathons, your big races. Again, whether it be
the fall, whether it be a half or ten care
of five k that you're training for, you're usually aiming
all your summer training towards this one fall goal. And
so after all that hot time, you just you know
(07:19):
your funnel to this area and that's where it normally
you can achieve that pr because you've been training that
summer for your fall, your fall race. So uh, that's
that's you know, peak peak training right there. And then
fall races often plan they're often planned for ideal conditions,
so you know, early in the morning on a fall
day can be nice and cool. And again we've always
(07:40):
said the fifties is your sweet spot. You can get
in those fifties on a fall morning. You might hit
like a an upper forty that then during the heart
of your race gets into the fifties and again you're
just you're right in that wheelhouse of where you want
to be. So fall races and a lot of race
directors will really try and aim and look at the
calendar and look at what is usual and expected for
that area and then just try and get their race
(08:02):
right in there, right in there to hit the perfect
weather conditions. You also can get some shady courses because
the day is on as long. You know, if that
sun's kind up a little later, and of course we've
got daylight savings time coming up, you can kind of
aim to not have that direct sunlight beating down on
all your runners for the vast majority in bulk of
(08:22):
that race. So those are just some things that race
directors can consider at that time. So next one for
the runners like runners experience here. Yeah, fall is PR season.
And how do I know this because my half marathon
PR is in the fall. It is a November race
the Good Life Has You, which we have talked about before.
(08:44):
They just recently came on the show. But it's Linkln, Nebraska.
It's mid November, okay, So both of these things tend
well for good weather. Now, the first year I did it,
it was very windy, so it was a pretty breezy race.
The second year I did it, which was last year,
which is still my half marathon PR, absolutely perfect. Morning
started in the upper forties, clear skies, no big winds.
(09:08):
It warmed up pretty decent. They probably finished closer to
sixty degrees, but we spent most of our time in
the fifties run that race and it was perfect. And
again for me, a PR the only half marathon I
have under two and a half hours. Two fifty nine
to fifty baby is under two and a half hour,
not two fifty nine, I'm sorry. Two twenty nine fifty
(09:29):
is under two and a half so that I don't care.
Those were big ten seconds for me as they came
sprinting down the bridge to try and get across the
line when I saw how close I was to that
sub two and a half hour half marathon. So yeah,
fall is where prs happen. And again there are people
I know who aprred at the garment kinds. The City
Marathon again, which we've talked about a lot lately. Yes,
(09:51):
there's a lot of hills on that course, but I
can I can guar on tee what goes up must
come down. While yeah there's some uphills, you normally get
met with a pretty decent downhill after you do that uphill.
The perfect example within the first five miles of the race,
after we leave Westport and we're heading towards downtown, Yeah,
we gotta I think we gotta go Broadway a little
(10:12):
bit and that can kind of staying and then we
go down Broadway, which is nice. Then we get to
that Trinity Hill where the old Hospital Hill course used
to kind of end. But when you get to the
top of that, and again you're at the top of
Trinity Hill, you get the beautiful view of downtown Kansas City,
and you know, you see absolutely everything from the World
War One Memorial to Union Station, Coffin Center for the
Performing Arts, the Western Autos Sign, you see all of it.
(10:35):
But then you almost get a full mile of downhill
action from the very tippity top at Trinity Hill all
the way down to Union Station. Is darn near a
mile of downhill. You want to talk about a place
where you can make up some time, and if you
got a beautiful morning, then running down that hill is effortless.
I mean, the gravity is just pulling you down as
you were chugging along. The only thing I don't like,
(10:57):
and again I'm not this is not a criticism of
the race. This is just my personal piccadillos. But they
have an eight station on that hill. No, no, no,
take that eight station. Get it off the hill so
that we can just streak down this bad boy without
having to stop for water. Put it on that uphill
that comes after it. As we're heading back to the
Coffin Center or heading up to the Coffin Center for
the Performing Arts, that's where you put the eighth station
(11:19):
because we're all walking that hill anyway. That hill sucks.
But don't interrupt that long, mile long downhill. We get
again mile four leading into five. I understand that it
is like where you need to place in the eight station,
So I get it. I'm not really busting chops, but
I would say move it down to the horrible hill
up to Kaufman Center and then we're we're sitting pretty.
(11:39):
We get that whole long mile long downhill to really
catch up on your time. It was two years ago.
I think I caught up with Pacer Amy and we're
just shooting the breeze because it was so easy running
down that hill. Was it Amy or no, maybe it
was Sarah. Oh, it might have been Sarah. Sarah. W
haven't seen you at a race in a while. I'm
calling you out if you even still listen to this podcast.
(12:00):
But yeah, it's that great downhill. So yeah, so the
fall is just tailor made for prs getting good life.
Hasy for me. You might have some other ones. There's
Gobbler Grind around here, which is a November race. Normally
get decent weather on that. There was the year way
back when, and I want to say it was maybe
twenty fourteen something like that, but we got so cold
(12:23):
here in November, like right before Thanksgiving. That the big
problem with Gobbler Grind. All the eight station cups were
frozen by the time runners got to them, they were
frozen solid. It was that cold, like we had wind
chills below zero that day. It was solid water at
the eight stations for that half marathon. So that was
a little trying. That was a little too cold that
(12:45):
maybe you know, at normal times that's a pr boal race.
Not that year when the eighth station is you know,
frozen solid, that's no good. There's also a psychological boost
to cooler weather. Cooler weather makes runs feel easier, and
if your run feels easy, your confidence rises. Okay, we've
all gone out for the hot weather run where we've
(13:05):
struggled and we thought, wow, we are an absolutely shite runner.
But the reverse is true when we get to the
cooler weather and you go out there and you do
that same course, or you go run that five k
and your time comes way down on a cooler morning,
and you're thinking, Okay, you know, hey, maybe I'm not
a shite runner. Maybe I'm actually pretty darn good or
where I want to be right now. Because the cooler
weather can get you running faster again, you're not working
(13:28):
as hard, your body's not working as hard, it's not overheating,
and so you get a good time. Your confidence rises,
and then that just takes in your next race feeling good,
and then the race after that you're feeling good, and
then you're building and you're feeling better. And when you
are running with confidence, you know you always run better.
What if we said about showing up to a start
line already defeated, might as well not even run the race,
(13:48):
because you're not gonna run a good one. If you
go to that start line, you're already mentally defeated. You're
gonna be physically defeated in about thirty five to forty minutes.
You know, if you're at that five k, you show
up with confidence, you show up ready to go, and
then you're gonna be amazed and how much better your
race is. And maybe your time isn't great, maybe it's
not a new pr for you, but if you showed
up confident and you ran your race and you finish,
(14:10):
you're gonna walk away from there still with your confidence.
Unlike sometimes where you can beat yourself before you even
cross the start line. We all know that that is true,
all right, And then in many fall races, the crowd
energy is bigger and better, and the reason is it's
not uncomfortable, so people want to come out. People will
come out and support races because it's a beautiful fall
(14:32):
morning and you'll see it like twenty twenty three doing
the Memphis Marathon. They it was a beautiful morning, picture perfect,
beautiful sunny day, cooler temperatures, fall morning. It's actually in
early December race in Memphis, but it was just the
absolute perfect weather conditions. Everyone came out and all these
neighborhoods were basically having block parties. It wasn't just someone
(14:55):
standing on the road with a flag yay. No, they're
all hopping in each other's yards. They're cooking out. They've
got tents set up, everyone's got their seats set up,
there's fire pits going, and everyone's got their Sunday morning
Mimosa's working like it was a whole neighborhood party that
we got to run through. And of course they're cheering
and rant and raven and going nuts. It was great,
but it's because it was fall and it was beautiful
(15:17):
and it was a perfect morning, and so everyone shows
up for it. You're not going to get a lot
of crowd support in the dead of winter or in
the dead of summer. That is not a thing that's
going to happen. We're fully aware of it. Most of
the time. They actually loathe us, do the people in
the dead of winter or the dead of summer, because
they're just trying to go somewhere and it's either hot
or cold and we're in the way. And then we're
either hot or cold and we're in their way, and
(15:38):
we're suffering more than them, I can guarantee you. But yeah,
the crowd energy is even better in the fall because
you've got better temperatures in a better just overall condition
for people to come out. So you know, in everyday
life what this means is, you know, cooler weather makes
activities easier. So even if you're just out gardening, it's
going to be easier for you, if you're out mowing,
if you're out taking the doll for a walk. It's
(16:00):
just more pleasurable when it is nice outside. And I
know that's no Doug, I hope you really. Yeah, no,
we like we get all that, but yeah, you know,
walks are better, family runs are better. Dog walks. They
all feel better in October than they do July, and
that is no kidding. So just I would say, take notice,
all right, that's my whole point. If you're out there
(16:20):
doing just your average, every day running the mill thing,
just take notice of how much more enjoyable it is.
And then you'd be like, wow, Okay, Yeah, Kyle was right.
And I know we can't say that very often because
it doesn't happen very often, but I was right. So
we love talking about races. Of course, races are are
big thing. Let's talk about some of the bigger fall
races that are offered out there. Some you can get
(16:42):
into easily, some you can't. But getting just to show
how big of a running season fall is, listen to
the lineup of races that you can do during the fall.
Of course, Number one, the Chicago Marathon comes up in
October always Columbus Day Weekend. Chicago was the very first
star I earned the World Marathon Majors. An amazing course.
(17:02):
You go through all these different districts, all these different
neighborhoods and areas, all with very different themes and very
different fields. The crowd support is amazing, the course is
very easy as it's very flat. We talked about Chicago before.
We've done a deep dive on Chicago. If you want
to listen to that, go back and find it. But
the Chicago Marathon, of course one of the biggest ones.
Next one right behind that, No, the the New York
(17:23):
City Marathon. Yes I can talk about it. Yes I've
talked about it at nauseum before, and yes it is
still my a number one favorite race I have ever done. Yep,
the New York City Marathon. The crowd energy is second
to none. I put it up against any other race ever.
The energy from that crowd second to none. Amazing. Course,
(17:45):
you see all the coolest parts in New York, fifty
some odd thousand people and it is it is a
site to behold. Yeah, if you ever get a chance,
New York City Marathon. Number three. Where we were at
last year Berlin Marathon. Perfect weather, except I can't say
that for this year. The people who ran Berlin this year,
y'all suffered as temperatures got up to about seventy five,
(18:07):
even up to eighty degrees when some people were finishing.
That is hot. When I got to running back in
twenty twenty four, perfect conditions in the fifties the entire time, sunny,
low humidity, low wind, perfect conditions. When I did the
Berlin Marathon, and again there we were talking fifty eight
thousand people. You were jam packed, you were startine. From
(18:30):
crossing the start line across in the finish line. There
was never a point where you're like, oh, look at me,
I'm running by myself or there's just a few people around. Nope,
it is sartine can the entire time. But again, heck
of an experience. Number four, I'm gonna put in there
the Good Life Havesy because we like the good lifeasin
that's linked Nebraska Perfect November Race. They are the ones
I talked about it on the podcast. They're the one
(18:52):
they slay me with this that they have to wait
for the schedule for the Nebraska Cornhusker football team before
they can settle and win their races. So this will
be the my third year running this race. All three
years have had different race weekends, so they're kind of
all over the place. You really got to stay on
top of them to figure out when their race is
gonna run. But when it does run, it definitely behooves
you to be at their start line in Lincoln, Nebraska,
(19:14):
because it is a great race, great race experience. The
city of Lincoln shows up for their runners. All the
credit in the world to the City of Lincoln. The
Lincoln Half Marathon that we've done in May the last
two years, and the Good Life haves you. This will
be our third time. The crowd support is really good
for a random Sunday morning in Lincoln, Nebraska. Those people
show up and they show up well, so the Good
Life haves the I'm thrown out there. Let's see the
(19:36):
next one. Oh, the Philadelphia Marathon another huge race, not
one I've gotten new experience before, but it is on
the list. I think that is usually in November race.
But there's a big race in Philadelphia. There's the Houston
Marathon down in Texas, it is huge. Twin Cities Marathon
up north, they're a big one, the Richmond Marathon, and
(19:57):
then the Broad Street Run which is also called the
Cherry Blosso half. Okay, So all of these are perable races.
All of them are beautiful races. You know. You can
also throw in the Marine Corps Marathon, which fun fact,
let's talk Marine Corps for a minute. I did divulge
on Monday's episode, I'm not gonna be able to do
the Marine Corps Marathon now again. This podcast me personally,
(20:20):
we keep all politics aside. I don't care what your
side is. I'm gonna be on a person. I do
not care. You do your thing, baby, you do you.
But we are currently in a government shutdown. Okay, think
of it what you will. That is the current situation,
with no bias. We are in a government shutdown. If
(20:42):
the shutdown lasts too long because of all the people
and resources it takes to put on the Marine Corps Marathon,
it will be canceled. If the Marine Corps Marathon is canceled,
everyone gets deferred to next year and that will be
the official running, fiftieth running of the Marine Corps Marathon. Well,
(21:03):
since I have the knee issue right now and already
kind of withdrew myself mentally from the Marine Corps Marathon,
but it was too late to defer to next year
officially through the race. August thirty first was the last
day you could do that. If they cancel it and
defer everyone to next year, my registration is still as
good as anyone else's. Hmmmm, you know not that I'm
(21:26):
rooting for the government to be shut down, for people
to not be getting paid for doing the work that
they're doing, and just there's a lot of things going
on with it. I get all that for me personally selfishly.
If the shutdown wants to last through Marine Corps Marathon
and they just move it to next year and my
registration next year is still good, I'm okay with this.
I am okay with this. I would not argue this
(21:48):
at all. So if you are registered for the fiftieth
Marine Corps Marathon coming up October twenty sixth in Washington, DC,
keep an eye on the news, whichever news you prefer,
and just keep an eye on the government and what
they're doing, and if they are shut down or if
they are not, if they stay shut down for long,
y'all might be changing your October plans. Just saying just
(22:09):
letting you know, you know, maybe you get your credit
for the airline, maybe you cancel the hotel room, you know,
once that's all is decided, just whatever, throwing that out
there for what that's worth, you know. Again, no biases.
This is simply the situation that we are facing currently
as it pertains to the fiftieth Marine Corps Marathon. Okay, okay,
(22:30):
don't hurt me, don't leave a bad review. Oh my god,
he got political. No I didn't, No, I didn't. I
was talking about the Marine Corps Marathon, all right, jeez.
So anyway, so yeah, so that is our Fall running.
I love the fall I'm super excited it's here, which
is probably why we're going to talk about it for
an entire month. We'll find other ways to discuss. So
I think on the next one we're going to, uh,
(22:51):
we're going to do the spooky side of running. Okay,
We're going to talk about like the spookiest races out
there and the most Halloween theme you know, creepy ones,
and they're they're definitely some now, you know. I don't
know if we might mention like Beat the Blurch. You know,
there's the Beat the Blurch race, and that's been talked
about very recently. I think people are signing up for
next year. It's just where this this creature, the Blurch
(23:14):
whatever the hell you want to call it, like starts
at the end and then chases the runners and like
you you, the whole point, you know, is for the
person in the blurch outfit to beat as many runners
as they can, and so you want to beat the
blurch sounds ridiculous. I'm in you know, that's definitely a
race I want to do sometimes. So now that's just
(23:34):
an example of some of the races and stuff we
we're gonna cover next week on the the spookier and
creepier race side. But really, you know, for today, we
love the fall. Fall conditions are great. Your fall conditions
plus your training in the hard months are gonna make
your prs very attainable in this running season. If you
really stuck it out in summer, you're gonna be amazed
(23:56):
at hell well you do in the fall, and I'm
here for it. If you pr this fall perfect, you
know you crushed your summer running and now this is
kind of the reward, the big over the top races,
the ones with sixty thousand runners, and then you pring
on top of it like perfect. Man. It doesn't get
any better than that. So again, thank you to everyone
(24:17):
who came out to the Chasing Rabbits run club last night.
That was super fun. Our next time is going to
be October sixteenth. Now, October sixteenth is also the first
day of the Garman Kansas City Marathon Expo, I'm gonna
be at the expo, and as soon as we're done
at the expo, I'm gonna be dead and heading over
to Discourse Brewery to at least join everyone for their
post run beer. I will not be there when everyone
(24:40):
starts the run, but thankfully we got Bill. Bill's gonna
be in charge. He's gonna get everyone shot off in
the right direction, and then I'll be there when everyone
finishes up. So we will have fun with that. And
that's really going to be your last run before you
do anything. On Saturday the eighteenth, for the Garment Kins
City Marathon again, whether you're doing the full, the half,
the ten, or the five, because they offer everything and
(25:01):
then make sure you stay after the race, reason being
they have the six hour celebration. So I am going
to be there as a representative of both the Back
of the Pack podcast and the Chasing Rabbits run Club.
We're gonna probably set up our little tent and we're
gonna be along the finishing shoot and we're gonna stay
and we are going to very passionately cheer on those
(25:23):
people who are in the last hour of the marathon.
So from noon to one, all those people, all of
us back of the packers who are coming in on
that full finish, in the full, in the last hour
of that race, we're gonna be there and we're gonna
make a big old scene for him, and we're gonna
be cheering, and we're gonna be ringing bells, and we're
gonna just have a good old time. They have asked
run clubs and people to stay behind specifically to cheer
(25:47):
in those last hour. People, Well, you talking to the
right crowd here. I'm one hundred percent going to be there.
So I'm gonna finish my half marathon. I'm gonna have
my post race beer and barbecue sandwich, and then I
am heading to the finish line where we are gonna
set up shop and we're gonna make sure we cheer
on everyone coming in in that last hour of the
full marathon, right right. So I hope, I hope, hope,
(26:09):
hope you will decide to join me for this and
not just finish your race and run off down the road.
And I get it makes for a long day, but
it's gonna be worth it. And I know how much
it means to last hour full marathon ers to at
least have somebody someone there that will cheer them on
as they cross the finish line and they're not just
running down in empty shoot with a bunch of people
(26:30):
walking away, because we all know how much that sucks.
So no, we're gonna be there and we're gonna make
a scene for these folks. We're gonna get them across
that finish line because they will have done something amazing
that day and we're gonna be there to celebrate it.
So that's gonna do it. For this week's episode of
the Back of the Back Podcast, second one, I'm a
sky Walker. Thank you very much for tuning in. Everyone,
have a safe week of training. We'll see you Monday
(26:50):
on a brand new episode of the Back of the
Back Podcast. Otherwise, I have a safe we can train it.
We'll see you next week. Papa Ustino past Master Pa
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