February 19, 2024 • 29 mins
There are some things even I can't speak on. Women's running safety is primary among those things. Thankfully we have amazing women runners in our community that can speak on this We invite in four amazing runners in Kansas City to talk about women's running and safety. Listen in to learn some of the things you can do to keep yourself safe on the course. Guys, you listen in as well. We need to be there in support for ALL of our running family!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:13):
Greetings and salutations, Welcome to anotherepisode of the Back of the Pack podcast.
I am not Kyle Walker. Kyleis floating around here somewhere. I
am Karen Billets and I am yourguest host for this special episode of the
Back of the Pack. I amjoined by a round table of three other
lovely lady runners from around the Caseymetro area. Kyle had an idea a
(00:36):
while back that he wanted to doan episode focused on women's running safety.
If you've seen Kyle, you knowhe is not a female, so he
thought a group of us might bebetter equipped to talk about those issues.
All four of us have different backgroundsand we have different experience levels in terms
of running, so this should bea great conversation. I will warn those
(01:00):
of you who are listening that weare likely to talk about issues of violence
against women or female presenting individuals.So if that's something that you have difficulty
with, this is your time totune out. No hard feelings. If
you are one of our male runningfriends and you're still listening, I encourage
you to stick around. You likelyhave a female runner in your life.
(01:23):
You run with females and group runsor races and I think it's a good
idea for you to understand what manyof us face in terms of fears or
frustrations on a daily basis. Partof what sparked this episode was the one
year anniversary of the abduction and subsequentmurder of Eliza Fletcher. Eliza was a
(01:48):
Memphis kindergarten teacher. She was abductedwhile on her morning run. This was
back in September of twenty twenty two, and she was found dead three days
later. The suspect in that horrorwas arrested just the day after she went
missing. Unfortunately, at the timeof this recording, we are now eleven
(02:09):
days into another female runner who hasgone missing, this time in Australia.
Samantha Murphy left her home for arun and did not return, and there
has been no sign of her belongingsanywhere along her planned route. A lot
(02:29):
of time, what we see whentragedies like this occur is comments saying why
was she running by herself? Whywas she running in the dark, Why
was she running in that neighborhood,Why was she wearing what she was when
she was running? Don't you thinkthat's just inviting trouble? Karen, you
(02:50):
have been running probably the longest outof anybody in this group. How do
you feel when you hear comments likethat after something like what's going on in
Australia and what happened with Eliza Fletcheroccurs? Right? I mean, it's
(03:13):
infuriating because running running is something wedo for ourselves. It's something that we
do because we want to be healthy, we want to make ourselves better and
be better for our families and forthe people around us. And for someone
(03:35):
to be criticizing you as if youhave some ulterior motive to be lazy or
you know, irresponsible in doing that. I really think a lot about people
like I'm so thankful every day thatI live where I do because I think
about if I lived in a urbansetting, how would I and be able
(04:00):
to do what I need to dofor me and for my family. It's
not it should be a given thatwe have that right to do that,
whether we're or in the country oron vacation or wherever we are. We
(04:21):
shouldn't have to worry about being safe. Jamie, you work around law enforcement
in your day job, and youknow, as frustrating as it is to
hear these things, why was sherunning in the dark. Why was she
in that area? Is it nowjust inherent that that isn't something that we
(04:44):
can take for granted? Would itbe nice to say, you're right,
I don't have to worry about that. I can just go and do my
run and not have to worry aboutit. But is the reality now that
no matter where you're running, orwhat you're wearing, or what time of
the day you're running, that youneed to be prepared to keep yourself safe.
Definitely. I live in a ruralsetting and I don't worry too much
(05:12):
about safety when I stay in myarea, but when I go pretty much
anywhere else, yeah, I doget more nervous and I do feel like
I have to make other choices tokeep myself safe. What steps do you
take to keep yourself safe on runs, whether it's in a familiar area or
(05:34):
it's someplace that you're running that you'renot familiar with. So one of my
go tos I have not actually beenable to do recently training for a marathon.
Don't do in training what you're notgoing to do on race day.
Excuse me. It is not apopular choice, but I do exercise my
(05:57):
right to the Secondmendment and found aconcealed carry holster are running belt that will
actually conceal my handgun, and ifI should need it, I have it
on me. If I'm not ableto carry that, I may have a
taser. I have actually have aflashlight taser that I bought right after the
(06:20):
initial kidnapping and murder in Memphis.Between those with my schedule, I'm not
usually able to run in a group, so I have to make other choices.
Amy, do you tend to runmore in a group setting or do
you run by yourself fairly frequently?And if so, are the things that
(06:42):
you do that you feel like you, you know, are doing to keep
yourself safer on those runts. Wellbefore the whole incident with that lady,
I used to run as long asI ran on a main, you know,
lit road by my house, Ifelt somewhat safe and I was lit
up. But ever since then Iwas shook. So I make sure I
(07:04):
run with someone. But then ifI do run solo, I make sure
that it's usually by my house.I don't like to do the same path
twice, just in a row,just in case people see me. So
I'm more comfortable with other people.But you know sometimes that you just can't
(07:24):
do that absolutely, Karen. Youmentioned, you know, going on vacation
and then being in areas that you'renot familiar with. What do you do
when you are in a situation likethat. You mentioned that you tend to
stick to what you consider to bea safe neighborhood or you're running with groups,
But what about when you're on vacation, right, I mean, I
love running on vacation. There areso many cool places you can go,
(07:47):
so many adventures that you can have. Is a great part of vacationing.
Not to mention the fact that youknow, as runners, we often a
training plan and so we want tokeep our fitness up and keep to that.
But when you're in an area,I mean, sometimes you just really
(08:07):
don't know if it is a safeyet or not. And so one thing
I do is I always make myroute, like I study them that before
I go out, and then Imake my route on Footpath, which is
an app and then send that tomy husband so he knows where I'm going
(08:28):
to be. I kind of givehim some times that you know that I
am expected to be back, andI don't even if I find something super
cool, I don't stray from thatbecause I, you know, don't want
him to worry. And then Ialso love the app Life three sixty,
which many of you probably use justto track to see when everybody's getting home
(08:50):
or where they've been. But it'sa great app that allows them to see
in real time where you are anygiven time. It also does keep track
of where you've been and how whattime you were at a certain location and
everything like that, so that definitelyhelps. But one time we were in
(09:11):
South Dakota and I mapped out aroute and we kind of drove around on
it ahead of time to see whatit was. And I just knew it
would be a bad idea. Itdid not seem safe. And so I
(09:31):
have a Planet Fitness membership and Igot the Black Card membership so I can
go to Planet fitnesses throughout the country. So it allows you to do that.
So that's just I don't work forPlanet Fitness or anything like that,
but it is a that's been great. So I went that day. I
just went to Planet Fitness and ranon the treadmill. It's like, you
(09:54):
just have to be aware. Andwhat I've heard more than anything with safety
is to trust your gut. Youknow something seems off, it probably is,
and you don't have to be embarrassed. You know, a lot of
times when these women have gone missing, there'll be articles in women's running that
(10:16):
talk about so what do you do? Like do you need to be feel
bad about being cautious? What ifpeople say you're paranoid? You're not being
paranoid, You're being safe. Andthat really helped me because I tend to
be a very trusting person and Ifeel bad if I don't trust people,
(10:37):
but I realize this isn't something tomess around with. You know. Another
thing we've done, and we didthis in our run group is we have
done and I probably should do thismore, but we've gone to like Kravmago
self defense classes and learn the basics. Even going to one of those classes
(11:01):
is really beneficial because they they don'tjust teach you moves that you can make,
but like basic principles on how likeyou know, you just fight for
your life. You don't ever letthem take you to another location. Things
(11:22):
like that that are that are basicprinciples that you know keep you the safest
and keep you from I mean,if you you know, if you get
shot running away. That's a lotbetter than somebody dragging you off to undisclosed
location. That sounds pretty extreme,but that's a reality, you know well,
(11:45):
and I don't. I don't thinkit's extreme, And I think that's
part of the conversation that often isn'thad, you know, And I think
that's why we're here, is becauseyou know, women need to hear regardless
of where you are running, youneed to be aware of your surroundings at
all times, and you need tounderstand what it means to defend yourself or
(12:07):
get away. And I think theproblem sometimes comes with whether it's taking self
defense courses or it's you know,carrying a firearm, or it's carrying a
weapon of some sort, that thereis no practice behind any of those solutions.
It's one thing to go to aclass and learn that class one time.
(12:28):
It's it's one thing to say,Okay, I carry a knife on
me just in case, But youknow, are there times when you are
actually practicing with that so that youare prepared in the instance that something like
that happens. Jamie, you mentionedthat you actually carry a firearm, you
carry concealed. You know, ishave you gotten into the habit of practicing
(12:52):
actually pulling that firearm out from yourholster while you're running, you know,
or you know the taser you knowthat is also a flashlight, you know?
Is that something that you have practicedwith? Right? Yes? I
found that the more you practice something, the more habit it becomes, the
(13:16):
more comfortable you get with it.And obviously those are things that you sort
of the flashlight itself, you don'tactually want to have to use. But
if you're not comfortable using it whenyour life depends on it, there's no
point in having it with you becausesomething could go wrong very easily, something
that could be prevented had you beenmore comfortable with it. And muscle memory
(13:39):
is a real thing. You getused to drawing a certain way while you're
running, while you're standing still,while you're turning. It just happens,
just like our running training, andthat muscle memory starts to kick in at
a certain point, you know,training to sort of defend yourself become a
second nature. Amy, has therebeen a specific time that you have been
(14:03):
running or an instance where you feltunsafe on a run? I mean,
yeah, a couple of times whenI went in by myself early early in
the morning, and like I said, I like to be close to the
house, so I would I don'tknow, I just didn't. If I
didn't feel right though, I wouldjust forget it, get back in the
car where it parked, and justgo home. I just I just don't
(14:26):
want to take a chance. Wasit a matter of just your surroundings at
the time or who was in yoursurroundings at the time that made you feel
like you were comfortable? I thinkmy surroundings. I also remember one time
I was running in a group,a couple of us, and well it
was a group run, but Iwas with a couple of people and it
wasn't in the best area. AndI mean I tried for us to move
(14:50):
as fast as we can to getaway from it, or to not go
book down a certain path. Butfortunately, so far, I haven't had
anything that really shook me up yetpersonally, Jamie, if you had any
specific instances where you felt unsafe otherthan the rural roads that you run in
being driven off the road by atruck coming by, but any other particular
(15:13):
instances, Yeah, it's upen acouple of times. Yeah, So there's
been a couple. The most recentwas actually on a trail on Rock Island,
love the trail a straight dog ofall things, And like I said
before training for a marathon, I'mnot going to be carrying in the marathon,
(15:35):
so I'm not caring while I'm runningright now. On my long runs
and had I had to grab abig stick and yelled a few choice towards
the dog, raised the stick asif I was going to hit it,
which was just a horrifying feeling forme because I'm a dog person. And
thankfully he stayed about ten feet awayfrom me, barking incessantly, and finally
(15:58):
decided he was done with me,turned around and ran off. The other
time, I was running in thecity and had somebody drive by and yelled
at me. Don't remember what heyelled, just the feeling that it left
was not pleasant. And I've actuallystarted sticking to side roads in instead of
(16:22):
main roads because that early in themorning, side roads aren't traveled as much.
And I think there's something to besaid for the fact that just as
a female out there running, whethersomebody has ill intentions or not, any
time we are confronted in some way, we're yelled at in some way.
(16:45):
Somebody slows down while they're going pastus. Immediately, I think our brains
go to, oh, no,is this? It? Is this the
time that I'm out running and somebodyis going to try something know that they
shouldn't. Karen, what do youthink about you know when you sorry?
(17:07):
Yeah, Karen? What do youthink about? You know that that idea
of cat calling or you know,people driving by and leaning out their window
and yelling something, or if you'rerunning in a downtown area as we all
have done and had some people holleras you go by, that intimidation factor
is that is there? How dowe as women get past the fear or
(17:34):
the feeling of being intimidated and beable to continue through that and be able
to continue, you know, participatingin the sport that we love without letting
them win. Right, Well,it's funny that you should even mention this.
I just had this happen on Wednesday, and I was running with another
(17:55):
woman last well last Wednesday, wewere running through a parking lot and this
guy it drives up and starts yellingat a saying that we should be running
on the sidewalk, and we basicallyjust we basically just ran into the nearest
(18:17):
store from there and just said wejust got we were just kind of a
victim of road rage and we're justgonna hang out here for a second.
It's not exactly answering your question,but I just wanted to say, yeah,
that's real I've had We've had evenin our renders, we've had people
like try to drive, they're nottrying to hitting you, and you have
(18:37):
to jump up on the sidewalk.So that's even I mean, that's a
real issue probably for men and women, you know, But as far as
the distri as the disrespect, Imean that can't I'm not really sure.
What was your question again, Like, how do you deal with that?
(18:59):
Work through that? Yeah, howdo we work through it and just say,
Okay, it's either a fact oflife now and we just have to
develop a thick skin and get throughit, or how do we handle being
able to continue to go out thereand enjoy this sport while having to deal
with stuff like that on a regularbasis. Well, I do usually run
with someone else now and that justmakes me feel a lot more secure.
(19:22):
But I use I was a solorunner for the majority of my run life.
I've been running for over thirty yearsand it was I mean it was
hard. You know, you wantto go out there and enjoy a run,
but something like that happens and you'reyou're off for the rest of their
run, you know. I meansometimes you can tell it's just like teenagers
(19:45):
being stupid that you can kind ofjudge gauge it one way or another,
but you never know what's going onwith them. So I hate to say
it, but you know, it'slike just having to be aware from the
point where that happens, like whatwas the intention here? And if the
(20:07):
intention was too you know, wasfeeling dangerous, You've got to act immediately.
And that's I think that's the onlyanswer. You can't you can't just
keep going on your merry way.You've got to do something about you know,
whether it's called somebody take a differentroute, turn around and go the
(20:30):
opposite direction, whatever that happened mighthappen to be yeah, and not allow
it to interrupt what it is thatyou're planning on doing. You know,
if we sat in fear all thetime, you know, then we wouldn't
get out and we wouldn't be anywhere. Right. That kind of think doesn't
always scare me because like I said, sometimes it's just people being stupid.
(20:53):
But you you just, like Isaid, trust your gut, trust your
instinct. You kind of know whenit's one way or another. You know,
as somebody drunk and they're just liketotally not being rational, that's going
to be a different feeling than someteenagers being you know, goofy. I
(21:14):
mean, do you think that ourmale counterparts in the running community, whether
it's just you know, the guysin general, or even the ones that
we run with, fully understand howintimidating sometimes it is just to be a
female while running. I mean,that's a hard answer to to say.
(21:40):
It depends, I guess on whothey are. I mean, guys are
wired differently anyway, so the waythat they think could be, you know,
it's different than women. I thinkthat a lot of them, though,
do have empathy and appreciation even morefor us because of some of the
things that we have to deal withlike this. But I don't I don't
(22:02):
have a definite answer. Yeah,Jamie, what about you and your experience.
The guys that you you run with, are the ones that you know
are in the same running groups,do you think they have an idea of
what it is to to do whatwe do. I think they have a
vague idea, just because the guysthat we run with are very empathetic,
(22:22):
very understanding, always open to listening. But until you've actually dealt with it
yourself, you can't really truly understand. But I think they do understand as
best they could. It's very easyfor them to put their their loved ones
in that position. You know,how would I feel if that were my
mom, my sister, my wife, my girlfriend, whoever. I think
(22:44):
it makes it easier for them thatway. Yeah, yeah, And I
think that's a message that needs tobe said, probably more frequently than it
is. You know, don't andand you know, I mean to to
the public in general, but youknow, to runner specifically. You know,
if the swiz your mom, yoursister, your wife, your girlfriend,
your daughter, your granddaughter that wasout running by themselves, you know,
(23:08):
what kind of behavior would you expectfrom the people around them, you
know, And and get them toemulate that behavior with their you know,
other counterparts to make sure that everybodyis on the same page and everybody knows,
hey, this is this is areal thing. It's a real issue
that women deal with on a dailybasis when going for their runs. Whether
(23:29):
they are admitting it or not,it is an issue. You know.
I have a tendency to not beeasily intimidated, but I also know that
that doesn't make me immune from havingsomething happen, you know, and I
have to be just as cautious andjust as aware of my surroundings as anybody
(23:51):
else, regardless of my level ofconfidence. Karen, what would you say,
you know, if there were anychanges that could be made, what
would you like to see in therunning community or our communities at large to
help female runners stay safe. Ohthat's a hard one, but I mean
(24:11):
I think we're already seeing some ofthose changes, and that's mostly just education
to women. I think the peoplethat are a threat, we're not going
to be able to educate them.They're just they're the way they are.
I was actually thinking on that previousquestion. My mother in law and my
(24:37):
mom both say to me, Iworry about you when you're out running alone.
I mean, they get it.They really, people who aren't even
runners, they understand I feel afraidsometimes at night to go from a store
to my car. You know.Unfortunately, we've just yes, we've just
(25:02):
seen that this is a reality thatwe have to be aware of. It
is uncommon, you know, it'snot it's not like this is going to
happen to all of us, butwe still have to be aware. And
so that educational piece, it's reallyhelped me a lot because I haven't even
though I've had that fear, likeI've had not known what to do with
(25:23):
it. So all those kinds ofthings that help us to understand that,
Like if you go to women's Runningmagazine, you can probably find articles things
like that. Also women education,educating each other, you know, when
these things have happened in our rungroups, everybody's like, do you do
you run with mace? No,well you should, you know, you
(25:47):
should have something. And what yousaid, Karen, like do you practice
it because you know they can turnon you with it? Oh okay,
didn't think about that either. Soso many times it's just like we're naive.
No, absolutely, I agree withthat, and I think that may
be a little bit more on thewomen's running community to help each other out
(26:12):
and to figure out, you know, ways to keep each other safe.
You know. In that vein,I didn't mention that at the top of
the episode, but we were allmembers of the Casey Metro. She runs
this Town group. If people arenot aware of what she runs, this
Town is. It's a free runningclub for women of all paces and experience
(26:33):
levels, and there are chapters allover the US, and it is a
great place to meet other female runners, to join in organized, you know,
group runs, or just meet peoplewho you can call and say,
Hey, I'm going for a run, do you want to go? So
I'm not running by myself. Asa matter of fact, Jamie and I
met on an SRTT group run thatwas forty five minutes away, only to
(26:56):
discover that we live literally around thecorner from me each other. So our
listeners, yes, our If ourlisteners don't have an SRTT chapter near them,
or if you want additional ways tobe able to run with a group
or meet other runners, check withyour local running store running shoe supply stores.
(27:18):
They often host free group runs throughoutthe week. It's another great way
to get into a community, soyou're not always running by yourself and you
may feel a little bit safer.I haven't been running nearly as long as
Karen has, but I will saythat I was a solo runner for the
(27:41):
first couple of years that I wasrunning, and you know, yes,
I've had my fair share of runins with individuals who you know, wanted
to be intimidating in some way,shape or form, and it has definitely
been easier to run with a group. But I think also having a group
(28:02):
of people that you can talk toand get encouragement from and learn from when
it comes to things like this isis probably a good a good idea.
Anybody else have anything that they wantto talk about on this subject, Yeah,
(28:22):
I think we covered a lot ofit. I think I think that
gives everybody a good idea of wherewe are as women in the running sport.
It's it's getting better. But interms of safety, I think we
could never be we could never betoo cautious. And I don't think that
anybody needs to feel like they're beingridiculous or they're being you know, over
(28:47):
the top, or they're being paranoid, because I'm sure none of these women
who have gone out for their runsand not come home, you know,
would have been considered paranoid if theyhad been carrying something with them or had
to de ided not to go fortheir run that day because they just didn't
have a good feeling, so thankyou ladies for joining me for this episode.
(29:08):
This has been another episode of theBack of the Pack podcast. Your
regular host, Kyle Walker will beback in your earbuds next week. Until
then, I hope you all havea fantastic run today
Greetings and salutations, Welcome to anotherepisode of the Back of the Pack podcast.
I am not Kyle Walker. Kyleis floating around here somewhere. I
am Karen Billets and I am yourguest host for this special episode of the
Back of the Pack. I amjoined by a round table of three other
lovely lady runners from around the Caseymetro area. Kyle had an idea a
(00:36):
while back that he wanted to doan episode focused on women's running safety.
If you've seen Kyle, you knowhe is not a female, so he
thought a group of us might bebetter equipped to talk about those issues.
All four of us have different backgroundsand we have different experience levels in terms
of running, so this should bea great conversation. I will warn those
(01:00):
of you who are listening that weare likely to talk about issues of violence
against women or female presenting individuals.So if that's something that you have difficulty
with, this is your time totune out. No hard feelings. If
you are one of our male runningfriends and you're still listening, I encourage
you to stick around. You likelyhave a female runner in your life.
(01:23):
You run with females and group runsor races and I think it's a good
idea for you to understand what manyof us face in terms of fears or
frustrations on a daily basis. Partof what sparked this episode was the one
year anniversary of the abduction and subsequentmurder of Eliza Fletcher. Eliza was a
(01:48):
Memphis kindergarten teacher. She was abductedwhile on her morning run. This was
back in September of twenty twenty two, and she was found dead three days
later. The suspect in that horrorwas arrested just the day after she went
missing. Unfortunately, at the timeof this recording, we are now eleven
(02:09):
days into another female runner who hasgone missing, this time in Australia.
Samantha Murphy left her home for arun and did not return, and there
has been no sign of her belongingsanywhere along her planned route. A lot
(02:29):
of time, what we see whentragedies like this occur is comments saying why
was she running by herself? Whywas she running in the dark, Why
was she running in that neighborhood,Why was she wearing what she was when
she was running? Don't you thinkthat's just inviting trouble? Karen, you
(02:50):
have been running probably the longest outof anybody in this group. How do
you feel when you hear comments likethat after something like what's going on in
Australia and what happened with Eliza Fletcheroccurs? Right? I mean, it's
(03:13):
infuriating because running running is something wedo for ourselves. It's something that we
do because we want to be healthy, we want to make ourselves better and
be better for our families and forthe people around us. And for someone
(03:35):
to be criticizing you as if youhave some ulterior motive to be lazy or
you know, irresponsible in doing that. I really think a lot about people
like I'm so thankful every day thatI live where I do because I think
about if I lived in a urbansetting, how would I and be able
(04:00):
to do what I need to dofor me and for my family. It's
not it should be a given thatwe have that right to do that,
whether we're or in the country oron vacation or wherever we are. We
(04:21):
shouldn't have to worry about being safe. Jamie, you work around law enforcement
in your day job, and youknow, as frustrating as it is to
hear these things, why was sherunning in the dark. Why was she
in that area? Is it nowjust inherent that that isn't something that we
(04:44):
can take for granted? Would itbe nice to say, you're right,
I don't have to worry about that. I can just go and do my
run and not have to worry aboutit. But is the reality now that
no matter where you're running, orwhat you're wearing, or what time of
the day you're running, that youneed to be prepared to keep yourself safe.
Definitely. I live in a ruralsetting and I don't worry too much
(05:12):
about safety when I stay in myarea, but when I go pretty much
anywhere else, yeah, I doget more nervous and I do feel like
I have to make other choices tokeep myself safe. What steps do you
take to keep yourself safe on runs, whether it's in a familiar area or
(05:34):
it's someplace that you're running that you'renot familiar with. So one of my
go tos I have not actually beenable to do recently training for a marathon.
Don't do in training what you're notgoing to do on race day.
Excuse me. It is not apopular choice, but I do exercise my
(05:57):
right to the Secondmendment and found aconcealed carry holster are running belt that will
actually conceal my handgun, and ifI should need it, I have it
on me. If I'm not ableto carry that, I may have a
taser. I have actually have aflashlight taser that I bought right after the
(06:20):
initial kidnapping and murder in Memphis.Between those with my schedule, I'm not
usually able to run in a group, so I have to make other choices.
Amy, do you tend to runmore in a group setting or do
you run by yourself fairly frequently?And if so, are the things that
(06:42):
you do that you feel like you, you know, are doing to keep
yourself safer on those runts. Wellbefore the whole incident with that lady,
I used to run as long asI ran on a main, you know,
lit road by my house, Ifelt somewhat safe and I was lit
up. But ever since then Iwas shook. So I make sure I
(07:04):
run with someone. But then ifI do run solo, I make sure
that it's usually by my house.I don't like to do the same path
twice, just in a row,just in case people see me. So
I'm more comfortable with other people.But you know sometimes that you just can't
(07:24):
do that absolutely, Karen. Youmentioned, you know, going on vacation
and then being in areas that you'renot familiar with. What do you do
when you are in a situation likethat. You mentioned that you tend to
stick to what you consider to bea safe neighborhood or you're running with groups,
But what about when you're on vacation, right, I mean, I
love running on vacation. There areso many cool places you can go,
(07:47):
so many adventures that you can have. Is a great part of vacationing.
Not to mention the fact that youknow, as runners, we often a
training plan and so we want tokeep our fitness up and keep to that.
But when you're in an area,I mean, sometimes you just really
(08:07):
don't know if it is a safeyet or not. And so one thing
I do is I always make myroute, like I study them that before
I go out, and then Imake my route on Footpath, which is
an app and then send that tomy husband so he knows where I'm going
(08:28):
to be. I kind of givehim some times that you know that I
am expected to be back, andI don't even if I find something super
cool, I don't stray from thatbecause I, you know, don't want
him to worry. And then Ialso love the app Life three sixty,
which many of you probably use justto track to see when everybody's getting home
(08:50):
or where they've been. But it'sa great app that allows them to see
in real time where you are anygiven time. It also does keep track
of where you've been and how whattime you were at a certain location and
everything like that, so that definitelyhelps. But one time we were in
(09:11):
South Dakota and I mapped out aroute and we kind of drove around on
it ahead of time to see whatit was. And I just knew it
would be a bad idea. Itdid not seem safe. And so I
(09:31):
have a Planet Fitness membership and Igot the Black Card membership so I can
go to Planet fitnesses throughout the country. So it allows you to do that.
So that's just I don't work forPlanet Fitness or anything like that,
but it is a that's been great. So I went that day. I
just went to Planet Fitness and ranon the treadmill. It's like, you
(09:54):
just have to be aware. Andwhat I've heard more than anything with safety
is to trust your gut. Youknow something seems off, it probably is,
and you don't have to be embarrassed. You know, a lot of
times when these women have gone missing, there'll be articles in women's running that
(10:16):
talk about so what do you do? Like do you need to be feel
bad about being cautious? What ifpeople say you're paranoid? You're not being
paranoid, You're being safe. Andthat really helped me because I tend to
be a very trusting person and Ifeel bad if I don't trust people,
(10:37):
but I realize this isn't something tomess around with. You know. Another
thing we've done, and we didthis in our run group is we have
done and I probably should do thismore, but we've gone to like Kravmago
self defense classes and learn the basics. Even going to one of those classes
(11:01):
is really beneficial because they they don'tjust teach you moves that you can make,
but like basic principles on how likeyou know, you just fight for
your life. You don't ever letthem take you to another location. Things
(11:22):
like that that are that are basicprinciples that you know keep you the safest
and keep you from I mean,if you you know, if you get
shot running away. That's a lotbetter than somebody dragging you off to undisclosed
location. That sounds pretty extreme,but that's a reality, you know well,
(11:45):
and I don't. I don't thinkit's extreme, And I think that's
part of the conversation that often isn'thad, you know, And I think
that's why we're here, is becauseyou know, women need to hear regardless
of where you are running, youneed to be aware of your surroundings at
all times, and you need tounderstand what it means to defend yourself or
(12:07):
get away. And I think theproblem sometimes comes with whether it's taking self
defense courses or it's you know,carrying a firearm, or it's carrying a
weapon of some sort, that thereis no practice behind any of those solutions.
It's one thing to go to aclass and learn that class one time.
(12:28):
It's it's one thing to say,Okay, I carry a knife on
me just in case, But youknow, are there times when you are
actually practicing with that so that youare prepared in the instance that something like
that happens. Jamie, you mentionedthat you actually carry a firearm, you
carry concealed. You know, ishave you gotten into the habit of practicing
(12:52):
actually pulling that firearm out from yourholster while you're running, you know,
or you know the taser you knowthat is also a flashlight, you know?
Is that something that you have practicedwith? Right? Yes? I
found that the more you practice something, the more habit it becomes, the
(13:16):
more comfortable you get with it.And obviously those are things that you sort
of the flashlight itself, you don'tactually want to have to use. But
if you're not comfortable using it whenyour life depends on it, there's no
point in having it with you becausesomething could go wrong very easily, something
that could be prevented had you beenmore comfortable with it. And muscle memory
(13:39):
is a real thing. You getused to drawing a certain way while you're
running, while you're standing still,while you're turning. It just happens,
just like our running training, andthat muscle memory starts to kick in at
a certain point, you know,training to sort of defend yourself become a
second nature. Amy, has therebeen a specific time that you have been
(14:03):
running or an instance where you feltunsafe on a run? I mean,
yeah, a couple of times whenI went in by myself early early in
the morning, and like I said, I like to be close to the
house, so I would I don'tknow, I just didn't. If I
didn't feel right though, I wouldjust forget it, get back in the
car where it parked, and justgo home. I just I just don't
(14:26):
want to take a chance. Wasit a matter of just your surroundings at
the time or who was in yoursurroundings at the time that made you feel
like you were comfortable? I thinkmy surroundings. I also remember one time
I was running in a group,a couple of us, and well it
was a group run, but Iwas with a couple of people and it
wasn't in the best area. AndI mean I tried for us to move
(14:50):
as fast as we can to getaway from it, or to not go
book down a certain path. Butfortunately, so far, I haven't had
anything that really shook me up yetpersonally, Jamie, if you had any
specific instances where you felt unsafe otherthan the rural roads that you run in
being driven off the road by atruck coming by, but any other particular
(15:13):
instances, Yeah, it's upen acouple of times. Yeah, So there's
been a couple. The most recentwas actually on a trail on Rock Island,
love the trail a straight dog ofall things, And like I said
before training for a marathon, I'mnot going to be carrying in the marathon,
(15:35):
so I'm not caring while I'm runningright now. On my long runs
and had I had to grab abig stick and yelled a few choice towards
the dog, raised the stick asif I was going to hit it,
which was just a horrifying feeling forme because I'm a dog person. And
thankfully he stayed about ten feet awayfrom me, barking incessantly, and finally
(15:58):
decided he was done with me,turned around and ran off. The other
time, I was running in thecity and had somebody drive by and yelled
at me. Don't remember what heyelled, just the feeling that it left
was not pleasant. And I've actuallystarted sticking to side roads in instead of
(16:22):
main roads because that early in themorning, side roads aren't traveled as much.
And I think there's something to besaid for the fact that just as
a female out there running, whethersomebody has ill intentions or not, any
time we are confronted in some way, we're yelled at in some way.
(16:45):
Somebody slows down while they're going pastus. Immediately, I think our brains
go to, oh, no,is this? It? Is this the
time that I'm out running and somebodyis going to try something know that they
shouldn't. Karen, what do youthink about you know when you sorry?
(17:07):
Yeah, Karen? What do youthink about? You know that that idea
of cat calling or you know,people driving by and leaning out their window
and yelling something, or if you'rerunning in a downtown area as we all
have done and had some people holleras you go by, that intimidation factor
is that is there? How dowe as women get past the fear or
(17:34):
the feeling of being intimidated and beable to continue through that and be able
to continue, you know, participatingin the sport that we love without letting
them win. Right, Well,it's funny that you should even mention this.
I just had this happen on Wednesday, and I was running with another
(17:55):
woman last well last Wednesday, wewere running through a parking lot and this
guy it drives up and starts yellingat a saying that we should be running
on the sidewalk, and we basicallyjust we basically just ran into the nearest
(18:17):
store from there and just said wejust got we were just kind of a
victim of road rage and we're justgonna hang out here for a second.
It's not exactly answering your question,but I just wanted to say, yeah,
that's real I've had We've had evenin our renders, we've had people
like try to drive, they're nottrying to hitting you, and you have
(18:37):
to jump up on the sidewalk.So that's even I mean, that's a
real issue probably for men and women, you know, But as far as
the distri as the disrespect, Imean that can't I'm not really sure.
What was your question again, Like, how do you deal with that?
(18:59):
Work through that? Yeah, howdo we work through it and just say,
Okay, it's either a fact oflife now and we just have to
develop a thick skin and get throughit, or how do we handle being
able to continue to go out thereand enjoy this sport while having to deal
with stuff like that on a regularbasis. Well, I do usually run
with someone else now and that justmakes me feel a lot more secure.
(19:22):
But I use I was a solorunner for the majority of my run life.
I've been running for over thirty yearsand it was I mean it was
hard. You know, you wantto go out there and enjoy a run,
but something like that happens and you'reyou're off for the rest of their
run, you know. I meansometimes you can tell it's just like teenagers
(19:45):
being stupid that you can kind ofjudge gauge it one way or another,
but you never know what's going onwith them. So I hate to say
it, but you know, it'slike just having to be aware from the
point where that happens, like whatwas the intention here? And if the
(20:07):
intention was too you know, wasfeeling dangerous, You've got to act immediately.
And that's I think that's the onlyanswer. You can't you can't just
keep going on your merry way.You've got to do something about you know,
whether it's called somebody take a differentroute, turn around and go the
(20:30):
opposite direction, whatever that happened mighthappen to be yeah, and not allow
it to interrupt what it is thatyou're planning on doing. You know,
if we sat in fear all thetime, you know, then we wouldn't
get out and we wouldn't be anywhere. Right. That kind of think doesn't
always scare me because like I said, sometimes it's just people being stupid.
(20:53):
But you you just, like Isaid, trust your gut, trust your
instinct. You kind of know whenit's one way or another. You know,
as somebody drunk and they're just liketotally not being rational, that's going
to be a different feeling than someteenagers being you know, goofy. I
(21:14):
mean, do you think that ourmale counterparts in the running community, whether
it's just you know, the guysin general, or even the ones that
we run with, fully understand howintimidating sometimes it is just to be a
female while running. I mean,that's a hard answer to to say.
(21:40):
It depends, I guess on whothey are. I mean, guys are
wired differently anyway, so the waythat they think could be, you know,
it's different than women. I thinkthat a lot of them, though,
do have empathy and appreciation even morefor us because of some of the
things that we have to deal withlike this. But I don't I don't
(22:02):
have a definite answer. Yeah,Jamie, what about you and your experience.
The guys that you you run with, are the ones that you know
are in the same running groups,do you think they have an idea of
what it is to to do whatwe do. I think they have a
vague idea, just because the guysthat we run with are very empathetic,
(22:22):
very understanding, always open to listening. But until you've actually dealt with it
yourself, you can't really truly understand. But I think they do understand as
best they could. It's very easyfor them to put their their loved ones
in that position. You know,how would I feel if that were my
mom, my sister, my wife, my girlfriend, whoever. I think
(22:44):
it makes it easier for them thatway. Yeah, yeah, And I
think that's a message that needs tobe said, probably more frequently than it
is. You know, don't andand you know, I mean to to
the public in general, but youknow, to runner specifically. You know,
if the swiz your mom, yoursister, your wife, your girlfriend,
your daughter, your granddaughter that wasout running by themselves, you know,
(23:08):
what kind of behavior would you expectfrom the people around them, you
know, And and get them toemulate that behavior with their you know,
other counterparts to make sure that everybodyis on the same page and everybody knows,
hey, this is this is areal thing. It's a real issue
that women deal with on a dailybasis when going for their runs. Whether
(23:29):
they are admitting it or not,it is an issue. You know.
I have a tendency to not beeasily intimidated, but I also know that
that doesn't make me immune from havingsomething happen, you know, and I
have to be just as cautious andjust as aware of my surroundings as anybody
(23:51):
else, regardless of my level ofconfidence. Karen, what would you say,
you know, if there were anychanges that could be made, what
would you like to see in therunning community or our communities at large to
help female runners stay safe. Ohthat's a hard one, but I mean
(24:11):
I think we're already seeing some ofthose changes, and that's mostly just education
to women. I think the peoplethat are a threat, we're not going
to be able to educate them.They're just they're the way they are.
I was actually thinking on that previousquestion. My mother in law and my
(24:37):
mom both say to me, Iworry about you when you're out running alone.
I mean, they get it.They really, people who aren't even
runners, they understand I feel afraidsometimes at night to go from a store
to my car. You know.Unfortunately, we've just yes, we've just
(25:02):
seen that this is a reality thatwe have to be aware of. It
is uncommon, you know, it'snot it's not like this is going to
happen to all of us, butwe still have to be aware. And
so that educational piece, it's reallyhelped me a lot because I haven't even
though I've had that fear, likeI've had not known what to do with
(25:23):
it. So all those kinds ofthings that help us to understand that,
Like if you go to women's Runningmagazine, you can probably find articles things
like that. Also women education,educating each other, you know, when
these things have happened in our rungroups, everybody's like, do you do
you run with mace? No,well you should, you know, you
(25:47):
should have something. And what yousaid, Karen, like do you practice
it because you know they can turnon you with it? Oh okay,
didn't think about that either. Soso many times it's just like we're naive.
No, absolutely, I agree withthat, and I think that may
be a little bit more on thewomen's running community to help each other out
(26:12):
and to figure out, you know, ways to keep each other safe.
You know. In that vein,I didn't mention that at the top of
the episode, but we were allmembers of the Casey Metro. She runs
this Town group. If people arenot aware of what she runs, this
Town is. It's a free runningclub for women of all paces and experience
(26:33):
levels, and there are chapters allover the US, and it is a
great place to meet other female runners, to join in organized, you know,
group runs, or just meet peoplewho you can call and say,
Hey, I'm going for a run, do you want to go? So
I'm not running by myself. Asa matter of fact, Jamie and I
met on an SRTT group run thatwas forty five minutes away, only to
(26:56):
discover that we live literally around thecorner from me each other. So our
listeners, yes, our If ourlisteners don't have an SRTT chapter near them,
or if you want additional ways tobe able to run with a group
or meet other runners, check withyour local running store running shoe supply stores.
(27:18):
They often host free group runs throughoutthe week. It's another great way
to get into a community, soyou're not always running by yourself and you
may feel a little bit safer.I haven't been running nearly as long as
Karen has, but I will saythat I was a solo runner for the
(27:41):
first couple of years that I wasrunning, and you know, yes,
I've had my fair share of runins with individuals who you know, wanted
to be intimidating in some way,shape or form, and it has definitely
been easier to run with a group. But I think also having a group
(28:02):
of people that you can talk toand get encouragement from and learn from when
it comes to things like this isis probably a good a good idea.
Anybody else have anything that they wantto talk about on this subject, Yeah,
(28:22):
I think we covered a lot ofit. I think I think that
gives everybody a good idea of wherewe are as women in the running sport.
It's it's getting better. But interms of safety, I think we
could never be we could never betoo cautious. And I don't think that
anybody needs to feel like they're beingridiculous or they're being you know, over
(28:47):
the top, or they're being paranoid, because I'm sure none of these women
who have gone out for their runsand not come home, you know,
would have been considered paranoid if theyhad been carrying something with them or had
to de ided not to go fortheir run that day because they just didn't
have a good feeling, so thankyou ladies for joining me for this episode.
(29:08):
This has been another episode of theBack of the Pack podcast. Your
regular host, Kyle Walker will beback in your earbuds next week. Until
then, I hope you all havea fantastic run today
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