Epstein Part III: Weird Science

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to bad Press where we do the deep dives,
so you don't have to actually where David does the
deep dives, so I don't have to welcome David.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
How you doing doing pretty good? As I mintioned you
just before he hopped on, got some caffeine flowing through
the veins. I got some nick tine your veins.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
You look like a man who spent the last twenty
four hours researching Epstein. You've got the look, the crazed eyes.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
The dark. It has been a journey.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, jump been man, What have you been? This is
part This is Epstein Part three. I cannot believe it.
We're on Epstein Part three? What have you learned? What
have you got for us?

Speaker 2 (00:47):
So? I mean I've been looking into some of the
journalists that have been kind of really I guess like
the break of the story okay, and there is there's
just some really interesting and like some suspicious stuff with that,

(01:10):
because really what I've been like looking into is okay,
so like we know the mainstream narrative of like Epstein's
a pedophile and he was pimping out, you know, all
these girls to prominent politicians and it was a blackmail
scheme and you know, we know that story, and so recently,
obviously we've been kind of talking about how Trump has

(01:31):
been like, you know, it's a distraction, it's a fabricated
narrative and whatever, and so I've been like, and then
obviously there's kind of like a community around that that
is also supporting that same kind of message. So I've
been looking a little bit more into that.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
And I will say, yeah, as soon I think I
mentioned this recently, as soon as an alternative mainstream thing
becomes mainstream, I get so suspicious and it's bad to eat.
We eat our own in the alternative area, like we
destroy our own. We call them shills and CEIA operatives
and blah blah blah. But man, I'm suspicious. So it
sounds like you are too.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Well, that's like the same kind of thing of like,
you know, whenever you have especially like they're going on
like CNN and MSNBC and even like Fox News or
anything like, as soon as that becomes kind of you know,
set in stone, then yeah, I mean it's time to
start at least like looking at the other side and considering,

(02:31):
you know, And that's what I was kind.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Of, what is the other side, What do you mean
by other side.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
So just like the idea of like that there are
you know what is where does this like Epstein story
come from? And that's where it comes from, like these
journalists that have been looking into and so it comes
kind of from like last episode, I said that we
would kind of leave We left off with like this
kind of glowing picture that was written in the like

(02:58):
New York magazine of Jeffrey Epstein and how he was
like this international moneyman of mystery, and you know that
he was like this fucking cool guy who just had
billions of dollars like floating around. And then on the
other side there was this journalist Vicky Ward, who was
painting a more critical picture of Epstein and like the

(03:22):
same window of time two thousand and two, two thousand
and three, and so I guess we can kind of
get into the Ward stuff. But the other side to
answer your question is Okay, so like where does the
Epstein story come from? And it, you know, really comes
from like Ward where it ended up like landing a
job for CNN, and I think that's where she was

(03:42):
working when the like the big Epstein story broke in
twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen and.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
She so where was she when she first started reporting it?

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Vanity Fair? Okay, that's right, yeah, Vanity Fair in New York.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
And then that's is that Conde Nast?

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Or no? That is Conde Nasty.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
So for folks who don't know, that's like one of
the biggest media conglomerates.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
There is, Yeah, along with I think the New York magazine.
There's another like a bit or like the New Yorker.
That's what it is. So the New Yorker and Vanity
Fair and those are like two, you know, of the
biggest like social light kind of reporting, you know, they

(04:24):
do like the society pieces in Manhattan. You know, that's
like that's where like Epstein was kind of centered.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
But and I should just mention because we jumped right in.
So David was willing to stay up very late waiting
for me to finish a consultation with an electrician who
is also my co host on another podcast I do
Happy Fool. So I'm building a shed with power and
we're running electrical out there, and so it is very

(04:51):
late where David is. So if he sounds tired, which
you don't, you sound good, but if he does, that's
why be kind to him.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Well that's what, yeah, I will be. I'm a little
all over the place.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Right now, so we scatter bird.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
So anyway, sorry to even derail you more. But so,
Vicky Ward, sure, is that Vanity Fair she's on this
story twenty two years ago?

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah, And this is at a time when like VH
one is doing specials about the lifestyles of the rich
and the famous international playboy Jeffrey Epstein Palm Beach home
five million dollars with heated sidewalks in Manhattan. You know,
like he's getting very favorable press, I would say, but
she's doing some bad press back in two thousand and two,
you're saying.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, it's it's not Look you go and read the
article that she published in Vanity by Fair, and it's
not like a slam piece, but it is, like I said,
it's a more critical picture than you know, the other
media that was being done that was all exactly like
what you were saying.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
And my understanding is that she had a more critical piece,
but editors kind of pulled out some of the sexual
misconduct allegations and stuff. They kind of washed it a
little bit because it wasn't maybe necessarily relevant to the
bigger story or her.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, so she had two sources and it was the
Farmer sisters. And so this is I think is like
the first example that we have of like a public
accusation against Epstein and the Farmer story. There was Maria
Farmer and there was Annie Farmer. And Maria Farmer was older.

(06:31):
She was like in art school in New York, and
the Epstein came to her like showing and anyways, she
got like basically connected in with Epstein and like worked
for him. She got a job for him, and so
she reports that like he then asked her to come

(06:53):
to his home in Ohio. And while she was in Ohio,
like there were accusation, like she had accusations of abuse,
like that he like wanted to give her a massage.
I might be like running the stories of the Farmers together,
because she goes to Ohio and experiences, you know, like

(07:16):
some form of abuse that she claims, and then her
sister who's younger, also gets caught up in this kind
of like network.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Oh wow, so this is early. This isn't Ohio. This
is not because like the forty or so folks that
were abused in pom Beach this was much later. This
was pretty close to his arrest. So Ohio's early, right.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yes, Ohio is earlier. So yeah, I think it would
have been like somewhere in the nineties that this happened.
And so yeah, so she goes and then her sister,
who is underage, who is sixteen, like Epstein offers for her,
like to set her up with like a like a

(08:02):
teaching fellowship or something like that in Southeast Asia, and
so he, like the story goes, he lures her to
like his New Mexico property nine thousand acres, like I
think it's the biggest ranch in New Mexico. It's yeah,
like a stupid amount of acreage. I think it might

(08:22):
even be like tens tens of thousands.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
Oh wow.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
So he like lures her over there, and then there's
abuse that happens there and so Maria Farmer goes to
But that's an interesting story because it's like how does
like if she's working for Epstein, if Maria Farmers working
for Epstein, why would she then and like sees kind
of like these you know, kind of suspicious things and

(08:49):
I don't really remember the timeline, but like why is
her sister, Like why is she then like, you know,
sending her sister to the New Mexico property.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, there is a lot of kind of similar discussion
about the Palm Beach stuff, because like an underage girl
might go into his mansion and then you know, she
might decline in advance, right, sexual advance, but they'd be like,
oh no, it's okay, here's some money, like just if
you have any friends who might be interested in So
they would turn some of the like you know, the
victims into recruiters basically, and so this was kind of

(09:20):
used to say like, well, are they really victims?

Speaker 2 (09:23):
You know, but I mean listen, yeah, but I mean
anytime someone is like yeah, if you're.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
If you're underage, you know exactly. This is an individual
who manipulated some of the richest people in the world
what's his name, less Wuxner into making empower of attorney
of everything of his entire empire, to the point where
like people he worked with were like, who's this Epstein guy,
And they're like, he's family, don't question him. And he was,

(09:52):
you know, abusing girls trying out to be Victoria's secret models. Right,
if he can convince sophisticated billllionaires to do that. I
don't think a sixteen year old girl on pop Beach
probably stands a chance. So got to be careful with
the victim blaming obviously, not that that's what you're doing,
but I've heard other people do that.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Well that's what. Yeah, And like when you get like
into the Palm Beach, like we'll get into like kind
of the police investigation into that, and what they describe
it as is like a sex pyramid scheme. And exactly
what you're saying is like, you know it would be well,
if you don't want to give me a massage, then
you can like you know, make two or three hundred
dollars for every girl you bring me.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
What's it like list scene of a man.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
And that's like, so that's the farmer's story. And so
she got Maria the older one goes and she reports
that to the like sixth Precinct of New York because
that's where she lives. So she gets out of Ohio,
she goes to the sixth Precinct, and like I said,
I don't know like the timeline necessarily, like maybe she

(10:58):
had like sent her sister kind of in New Mexico
before she had had her own experience with that, Like
that's I think that may have actually been what happened
is she sent her sister and then her sister didn't
say anything because her older sister worked for him and
didn't want to like, and so it's just like one
of these things that's like she was working for Epstein.

(11:20):
She like has she's been in the media. Maria has
recently kind of talking about how she had weird experiences
with Donald Trump, and so people have criticized her for
that of being like, well, was this part of your
story back then or is it a part of your
story now? And so, yeah, the victim blaming is definitely
something that like we want to stay away from. But

(11:41):
in order to like piece the story together, it's like
you kind of have to look into what are they
saying and what's the timeline?

Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
Anyways, she like reports it to the police in New York,
and the police of New York are like, we can't
do anything about it. It happened in Ohio. So like, if
you want to talk to someone, you have to talk
to the FBI. And so Maria Farmer actually like contacts
the FBI, and this is the I think the first
time that they like a victim goes to the FBI
with a claim of sexual abuse by Jeffrey Epstein, and

(12:14):
so Vicky Ward for Vanity Fair has this on the
record in two thousand and three, and she tries to
put it in her Vanity Fair story, but the editor
takes it out. His name is Graydon Carter. He takes
it out because he says that the reporting did not
meet the legal threshold for Vanity Fair to publish it,

(12:35):
so saying that if you make these accusations against Jeffrey Epstein,
then we're going to have to go to court for
a libel suit, and we don't think that this will
hold up in court under a liable suit from Jeffrey Epstein,
which is like, and.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
He's got a lot of criticism. I'm not defending him,
but at the same time, it's it's kind of like
a fairly common thing that happens in editorial rooms, especially
if you're Vanity Fair. I mean, you're not You're not
al Jazeer and vest again in war crimes in Gaza, right,
You're you're you do you know? Is vanity a Fair
is not investigative journalists?

Speaker 3 (13:06):
Right?

Speaker 1 (13:06):
They may back away from Bible suits or no, is
this atypical for them?

Speaker 2 (13:11):
No, that's what I think, Like, especially when you're accusing
someone with that much power and money, like you know
that they're going to come with heavy hitting lawyers and so.
But there was also so she comes out later, not
really at the time, but later, like a decade later,
and it's like Epstein was pressuring Carter behind the scenes

(13:34):
to take that stuff out of the earth, okay, And
so that's what she says, and Carter pretty much denies
that accusation. So the story comes out and it doesn't
have any of the sexual abuse allegations.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
So what is the story then? But that they is.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
It's a society piece about like the same kind of
thing that we talked about with like the international Moneyman
of mystery, but it's just like more critical, like and
it like mentioned something about like how his affinity for
young women, but it doesn't get into any of that.
But it's kind of the same idea of like who
is Jeffrey Epstein? And you know what do we know?

(14:15):
So we'll kind of like we'll come back to the
two thousand and six police investigation, but like three years
later in Miami, in Palm Beach, the police opened an
investigation in Jeffrey Epstein in underage sex crimes. But so
he gets convicted in two thousand and seven, two thousand

(14:38):
and eight or whatever, and like I said, we'll come
back to that. But then Vicky Ward publishes a blog
post in twenty eleven that is like way more glowing
Epstein and Maxwell than her article was in two thousand
and three, and she had, you know, claimed that she
had been suppressed in her story, Like that's interesting thing.

(15:01):
And she's like talking about how she would bump into
like Glaine at these parties and how they would stay
up until like two am talking about like philanthropy or
something like that.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Okay, she's been making the tours lately talking about how
she had this story ready to blow wide open but
they wouldn't let her. Like that's recent since twenty eleven.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah, she has a podcast that came out on Audible
that's called Chasing Glaine and is about like this whole
like she's telling her version of events. But I read
this article that was puts it in The New Yorker,
which is not like a you know, right wing publication.
It's not like, you know, trying to do this. And

(15:41):
he communicates with both Vicky Ward, like through emails and
through phone conversations and with the editor Graydon Carter and
tries to like put together this story of like why
Vanity Fair didn't break, you know, break the Epstein story
wide open in two thousand and three, and he like
finds this twenty eleven blog posts where she's like basically

(16:03):
excusing Jeffrey Epstein's you know, sexual exploits as like you know,
these sexual She's like sexual peccadillio. I don't even know
what that word is. Yeah, it's like you know these
like you know, just kind of like brushing it off,
being like and she mentions like the most wha like

(16:26):
sanitized version of the farmer's story that she could, like
that she could possibly post that, Like I don't think
she mentions like the underage component of the abuse, and
she doesn't mention like the like the more sexual stuff.
She just mentions like there was like a creepy massage
or something like that.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
And this is years after he was reconvicted. Convicted.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, yeah, so that that's weird. Yeah, it was weird.
And it's like yeah, and you know, so the guy
was like asking her why and so she was like, well,
the article that I originally wrote for that blog post
was heavily edited and like someone changed my words. And
so the guy was like, well, can you send me
the emails of your original draft? And she sent them

(17:10):
the emails of his original of her original draft, and
it was basically like the same article hadn't even been
like heavily edited, like she said, and she was given
back a copy from the editor to review before it posted,
and she approved it. And so it was like, you know,
she was basically just like mischaracterizing her version of events.
And then you know, when the epstein story breaks, that's

(17:34):
when she kind of backtracks and is like, yes, I
had the Farmers on record and wanted to do all
this stuff, but Maria Farmer like hates Vicky Ward and like,
you know, it was like was heavily critical of her
podcast like Chasing Galaine, and was like, she keeps torturing me,
like you know, so she described that.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
So this is like a textbook example of controlled opposition.
You would say, like someone who's you know, ostensibly critical
of Epsteine but not really you know, he's he's she's
manageable opposition.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
I think, yeah, well that's what like or just like,
you know, like these people who are lauded as like
journalistic heroes, right, and it's just like, well, you're writing
a blog post in twenty eleven. That's like, you know,
excusing this behavior.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
And hey, everybody, everybody's trying to be Seymour hirsh but
nobody wants to get sued by Robert Maxwell, you know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, because it's you know, at least Seymore Hirsh one. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
So okay, so sorry, so let's jump. So let's let's
go to the arrest. Can we do a quickret Like
it's a long story, I think most people know it,
but can we do a quick Palm Beach arrest?

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah? So the the stepmother of a fourteen year old
victim calls the Palm Beach Police Department and it's like,
my daughter's been you know, molested, and you know she
has like she's named like two other girls who are

(19:13):
involved in this that like brought her to the house essentially.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Like quick point. So my understanding was he kind of
focused on his like the profile for the ideal person
to invite over would be someone without like parental involvement basically,
but part of the pyramid scheme is that that these
girls have friends, and some of their friends have involved parents,
and so this girl got invited to the house and
she had involved parents, and she told her parents and

(19:40):
they told the police. Right, That's basically how it went down.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
I think.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, it was like they Yeah, her stepmom was like
where did you go? And she like didn't want to
say first, and then eventually it's like, you know, her
stepmom like draws it out of her. So yeah, that
was the profile of like the you know, picking up
people who were you know, poor, you know, kind of

(20:05):
some of them were like almost homeless, you know, kind
of that like you know, praying on vulnerable because you
know that's easy, too easy to dismiss, you know, their stories.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, don't underestimate the power of a parent saying where
were you?

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
That's what brought down f Stein. I love it well,
I mean not ultimately, but that's what got him his
first arrest.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah. And then so the police, like you said, so
she names two other girls. So the police go talk
to those two girls, and then like they named two
more and then they name like two more and so
why it gets described as like this pyramid screen like
scheme is exactly what you're saying is that, you know,
he would find one of these girls, like they would

(20:50):
go find one, come over. He would ask them to
give him a massage, and they'd give him a massage,
and then at some point during the massage, like he
would start masturbating. So then when if the girl was
like no, then he would be like, okay, that's fine,
but like if you want to make money, then I'll

(21:12):
give you two hundred three hundred dollars for any girl
that you bring me. And so then they would go like, okay.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
What a calculated approach to sexual abuse. You know you
kind of think of this as being like a like
a like a passionate crime, Like this lustful pervert kind
of loses control. He's like, no problem, but hey, let's
talk money.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
I mean that's and like it's a yeah. And when
you get into like the stories, like it's much more.
It's not like it doesn't seem like he's like a
like into like BDSM.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
You know, he's a recruiter. He's recruiting.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, and like it's you know, some like one of
those you knowices. So they go and they start talking.
So the police start kind of like you know, surveilling
the house and trying to collect evidence and stuff like that,
and they end up getting like around I think so

(22:10):
like eighty victims is what the Miami Herald ends up finding,
like through coming through the police report.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
Open and shut case, rest of his life in.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Jail, right, yeah, I mean with the evidence that they collected.
And so the police start you know, preparing you know,
their charges or whatever. They start like you know, trying
to prepare their case. And what they do is they
sense that the Palm Beach Prosecutor's office is beginning to
kind of to fuck with the case, and so they

(22:41):
refer it to the FBI because they were like, I
don't know if the state court, you know, is going
to handle this appropriately, so we're going to bring in
the FBI. And as we mentioned, I think on the
first episode, the head of the Miami District of the FBI,
like the prosecutor was Alex Acosta. And so Jeffrey Epstein

(23:06):
hires a legal team, and the legal team is you know,
just these heavy hitter lawyers. I mean, I think they
had the lawyer who was actually investigating like Bill Clinton
during the whitewater and like the Monica Lewinsky scheme ken

(23:26):
something I'm forgetting his last name, But they had Alan Dershowitz,
and they had a couple other guys who were who
were big into it. But the police, like I said,
had accumulated evidence of like over eighty girls being involved.

(23:47):
And the plea deal that Epstein strikes is two counts
of solicitation of prostitution and one of those counts involves
solicitation of an underage prostitute. But that doesn't make any
sense because how can you be a prostitute when you're
fourteen years old? So it's like that characterization of the victim,

(24:10):
like even in the federal so and it ended up
like not even being a federal prosecution. They took it
back to the state, so he wasn't convicted by like
even though the FBI was the one handling the case.
They took it back to state court where he pled
and then they set up a non prosecution agreement for

(24:35):
Epstein in like the federal districts, so he couldn't be
prosecuted by the FBI.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Where did he go, Well, he awaited the sentencing, he.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Was I'm not sure where he was like when he
awaited the sentence, I mean I'm pretty sure that they
gave him like an opportunity to post bail.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but
he went, he went to Israel. Shit, So because there's
not a there's no extradition, right. But but what's interesting
is he came back and so the question is, well,
why did he come back to go to jail. Well,
we know his jail sentence was incredibly light. Have you

(25:13):
seen the thing recently? I think a couple of days
ago that we pretty much know we basically there was
an FBI memo that's dated September ninth, two thousand and eight,
which that would be after this deal, but pretty close in.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
Time, right, say that?

Speaker 2 (25:30):
Sorry? Say that again?

Speaker 3 (25:31):
So sorry?

Speaker 1 (25:33):
So when when when did he go to jail? I
know he only had to spend the.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Night, but yeah, two thousand and eight was I think
like the year that he spent in jail.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
Okay, Well, so you may already know this, or this
might be news to you, but because I only just
read it yesterday, this is like economic time, so it's
not completely out of left field. There's now a memo,
a known memo that says he was providing information the
FBI as agreed upon and that no federal prosecution would
proceed as long as he complied with the agreement made

(26:05):
in the state of Florida.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, so that's what part of his I.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Hope that wasn't your punchline. I'm sorry, just but like.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
The one thing that I just found out, like a
couple hours ago was that he was a key witness
in the prosecution of two bear Stearn's executives during the
financial collapse, and that he had like what the FBI
regarded as like valuable information to that. But it isn't known,

(26:34):
like the article that I was reading said, like, it
isn't known whether or not like his role in that
investigation like played into his plea agreement.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Well, it certainly, at least at least this particular memo
certainly makes it sound like that plea agreement that was
like it was it was contingent upon his providing information basically,
so he basically turned states with or whatever or whatever
you want to call it. He was the FBI informants,
you know, whatever word you want to use.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Well, and that's what like you, like we had said,
is like he worked at bear Stearns for five years
and then he was also a client of bear Stearns.
He was one of bear Serarns like most important clients.
And then you know, obviously like they were in the
middle of all those prosecutions and like being charged for
you know, the all the housing colab stuff.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
But my understanding of his actual jail sentence, do you
know how long it was at the top.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Of your head, it was around a year something.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
My understanding was he had a twelve hour work release.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Six days a week.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
Yeah, six days a week.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
And the Sheff's Department explicitly had a policy that no
work release would be offered for like child sex offenders.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
And so he got to leave the jail you know,
at seven am or whatever and just live his life.
He basically just had free places to sleep, you know.
And then what he spent one day in the jail
per week, right, and.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, he had like it was in a private wing
of like you know, it was like a resort.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
You must be must have been devastating to the witnesses
who all came forward put their cells on the line,
you know.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, and that's what you know it was, And that
was like what you know, the farmers had kind of
said as they were like when they originally went on
the record for Vicky Warden, then their story didn't even
get published. It was like they got put in this
compromise position where it's Epstein now knew that they were
willing to talk to reporters, but they didn't have the
protection of being on the record, and so it was

(28:31):
like the same kind of thing happened and the FBI,
you know, the plea agreement, and also like they didn't tell,
so they violated federal law because they didn't tell the
victims or their families going with a non prosecution agreement
and that they were going with you know, this plea agreement.
So they made like they went to the judge and

(28:53):
had the judge signed it, and only after the judge
had signed the plea agreement did it get revealed in
the press to the victims that you know, that this
was what was happening.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
That's important because I think that's actually what ultimately brought
him down. But real quick, my understanding was that whoever
the main prosecutor was was actually like very intent on
nailing Epstein, and she believed that she would be successful
because of all the witnesses, was like open and shut case.
But that you know, from higher up. I guess it'd

(29:25):
be alex Acosta. They made this deal even without letting
her know the main prosecutor in the case, and so
that kind of decision has to have come from someone
above alex Acosta. And he was attorney general for the
State of Florida.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Right or so it wasn't for the state. He was
the head of the Justice Department for the District of Miami.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
So it's like, okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
There's like nine federal districts or whatever. The Southern District
of New York is always in the in the press,
but that's where, like Epstein was.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
There's nine federal districts.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Is that we say it might be yeah, I think
they're no. I'm not sure. Sometimes they the you know,
the federal stuff into nine.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
But he was, my internet's getting janky. I'm gonna talk
for a second while you catch up. You're you're like
twenty seconds behind. But I was just gonna say, so,
there's not that many people above that person, Like, there's
not that many wrongs above that ladder, right, I mean,
he's got a boss, who's got a boss, who's got
a boss. Right, It's pretty like how many levels above

(30:35):
the nine federal districts are there. I mean, I'm sure
there's a million administrators, but I'm just saying as far
as like the chain of direct reports, like who's giving
him this order, it's got to be something pretty high
up in the FBI.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah, I mean, I think that, like the the Attorney
General of the United States is the one who oversees
like the boom, which was who I don't know who
the attorney general was, That would have been during the
second Bush administration, like the second term of George W.

(31:07):
Bush administration, but there were you know, there's all sorts
of like I said, it's like, you know, like when
you look into like the lawyers who were representing Jeffrey
Epstein in that case, it was like they were extremely
like politically politically connected, and so it's kind of like,

(31:28):
you know, it's difficult to pinpoint exactly where the order
is coming from. But then there's also like the famous
Secosta line that's you know, I think it's a rumor.
I don't know if it's ever been substantiated, but it's
we were like I was told to back off, like
and that he belongs to intelligence. Yeah. So yeah, it's

(31:50):
tough to know of like who is calling the shots
on like shutting down the investigation, but Alex Secosta was
definitely like the front man for for doing that.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
So feel free to resist my attempts to guide you
down the path because I don't know where you're going.
But so he does his year in prison or jail whatever,
then what.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
And then he gets released and goes like right back
to doing you know, what he was doing before, and like,
you know, it's like like he has meetings, but like
Prince Andrew comes to his house. You know, I'm pretty
sure Bill Clinton, you know, maintains ties. I'm pretty sure
like Bill Gates is still like you know, like has

(32:35):
a meeting and stuff like that. And you know, he's
still funding all of this like weird science and like
you know, putting money in all of these places. So
it's like he's been you know, he's a registered sex
offender and he has to register, you know, in the
state of New York. He's registered in Florida and all
of these places, like it's known.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
By now eighty witnesses, eighty victims at least that not
on the record, you know, probably thousands.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
But and so you know, and that's you know, kind
of the the story. And I think it's like, you know,
if people want to look into like, you know, what
he was doing and you know, post two thousand and eight,
you know, to twenty nineteen, it's like there's a pretty good,
you know, pretty good record of some of that stuff.
But tons of people when the story comes out in

(33:20):
twenty nineteen, it's like they have to begin to like
distance themselves, and a huge point of it comes well,
like where you pre conviction like Epstein connection, yeah, or
where you post conviction Epstein connection, or where you both
and a lot of people, you know, especially like some
of the scientists, you know, like they were post conviction.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
You know, is that what we're about to get into
the weird science, Let's do it right.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
So, yeah, we'll quickly visit like the way that the
story breaks in like twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, because this
is one of the other like weird journalist things. So
I looked into the journalist that broke the story is
Julie K. Brown, who's also been making the rounds, also

(34:13):
been making the rounds on like the you know, kind
of the Epstein story recently in the media, and she
wrote something called perversion of justice, and she breaks that
whole story and she actually gets the chief of police.
He was the lead detective at the time, but she
gets him on record for the first time, and he
explains the police investigation, and he's the one explaining the

(34:36):
sex pyramid scheme and all the evidence that they collected,
and she's the one who explains how like Acosta made
the deal. And this is when Acosta is serving as
the Labor secretary under Trump. And I think, like the
day after the story comes out, or like write after
the story comes out, Acosta has to resign. And Acosta
was being considered at the time for Attorney General. Jeff

(35:00):
Sessions had just resigned and so like this story really
derailed his like political career.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
But anyways, like just quick sorry, quick break.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
I gotta admit that Trump connections are odd. And I
know if any of my friends or family are listening
to devastated because nobody wants to believe, you know, that
Trump would be involved with this stuff. And I'm not
saying he is. I'm just saying there are a lot
of odd connections. Acostas certainly one of them. The guy
who was standing next to him when he was saying, Epstein,

(35:34):
why are we still talking about Epstein? Do you know
what I'm talking about? When he was he was just
getting off a plane and the reporters are asking him
about Epstein, He's like, why are we still talking about Epstein? Well, anyway,
the guy standing next to him in the frame was
Epstein's neighbor and good friend in Ohio or maybe.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Manhattan, I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
And again it's like, well one of these things is like, Okay,
you know Epstein was a powerful guy. He was rich,
sense that you'd bump eldos with them and stuff. But
when you start when all these people are sort of
connected to this guide, it's enough to make you suspicious,
is all I'll say.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
And that's what, you know. I think I've said this before,
but it's like you have have to really go back
into like Donald Trump's origin story to begin to understand
like why some of those connections become so prominent too,
is because Trump is in Manhattan real estate, you know,
and Jeffrey Epstein is working at bear Stearn's, you know,

(36:34):
throwing around all this money. And not to say like
obviously Manhattan is a really big place, but it's like,
you know, these like.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
It's a small world of people of billionaires. I mean,
it's it's not an endless list.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah, and then you get into so, okay, if you're
brokering deals in New York for these massive towers, and
you're brokering deals in Atlantic City, you know, for casinos
and in Florida, Yeah, and you're going to be working
in like with organized crime, and like it gets back
to like Trump's old lawyer, like Roy Cone, and it

(37:09):
gets into like the Bromfman stuff. We mentioned the Bronfman ties,
like organized crime, but there's this organized crime network that like,
you know, working in those types of real estate, especially
like casinos in Atlantic City, you know, you're gonna be
rubbing elbows with organized crime. And yeah, you know that's
where you know some of these networks that and the
CIA was involved with organized crime, like they were enmeshed

(37:32):
in it. And of course you're talking about organized crime,
you're talking about intelligence agencies and so it's like it's
a very murky picture. But it's like, you know, when
you go back and you start to look, then it's
like some of those pieces start to fit together a
little bit more of like how Donald Trump.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
Is involved in that way as time goes by, I'm
getting less concerned. And this isn't a cop out. This
isn't like I don't want to admit Trump's involved. Hebe
sounds like you probably is to some extent, you know,
I don't know the degree. But at this point it's
like I almost don't care who the individuals are. I
want to know why we aren't why there is no

(38:13):
systematic investigation right now, Like nobody, no one talked to
Glaine until a week ago. Yeah, Like that's the part
that I think is more damning than some picture from
nineteen ninety five of you know, Milania and Gallaine and Trump,
and you know, it's like, why are we still not

(38:36):
investigating anyway?

Speaker 3 (38:37):
This is a tangent.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah, no, that's but to that point, like that's what
I was thinking about earlier, is I was thinking about
the conversation of like, people want the Epstein files released,
and we.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Were there's no files, there's no investigation because.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
There hasn't been an investigation. So what people want is
a congressional inquiry. What people want is like you know,
a committee.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
It's almost like as long as they don't do an investigation,
they get to say there are no files, you know,
so they don't want to do an investigation because then
there are files, you know.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, yeah, that's it. And that's that's exactly the point
that I was thinking earlier. I was, you know, that's
exactly right, is we don't want them to release what
they already have. We want a proper investigation to be.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
You know, it's it's almost genius like counter intelligence, Like
like like if you were in a in a you know,
in solvad Or and there's like a counterinsurgency and you're
like trying to manipulate them, like this is what you
would do. You would get them obsessed with this thing
that doesn't exist, the Epstein files. So you get to

(39:37):
either a release it and it's nothing, or you get
to say it doesn't exist and there is something like
devastating to a political movement to like do exactly what
they asked for and then have them still be upset
because people who are not that involved like are like, man,
nothing makes you guys happy, like you said, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein,

(39:58):
They gave you the files, what more do you want?

Speaker 3 (40:00):
You know?

Speaker 1 (40:00):
It is like it's kind of like a brilliant, like
counterintelligence type of move you know.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah, And so I was also thinking too, I'm like,
how would you discredit a ring like this. It's like
you would also plant like a false witness or two.
Oh yeah, and you would, and you would have them
weave this story that could never be like substantially proven

(40:27):
or it could never be you know, yeah, basically that
that it could never be proven in a court of law,
and then pieces of that would be fictitious, and then
you could prove that pieces of that would be fictitious,
and then you could be like, well, hey, look this
is you know, the like the basis for some of
that story, and you know, turns out that this person

(40:50):
was lying about it, so everyone must be lying about it.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
I see this story going away soon, which is devastating
to me honestly. But I think the movement still, like
we want the files movement is just incredibly vulnerable right now.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
Yeah, And that's what I think they're like, you know,
one of the reasons like that this big push has
happened is exactly that is to kind of like put
you know, some of it to bed and to be like,
you know, y'all are crazy.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
I mean, just like the jfk FI, we're not talking
about JFK anymore because they released some paper that had
nothing on it, and we're like, okay, well they did
what we asked, you know.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
Yeah, anyway, so that's and so like getting into like
Julie K. Brown. So like she breaks it and she
tells that whole story, and that's what So the DOJ
the Department.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
Of Wait, sorry, who's Julie K. Brown?

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Did we She's the journalists from the Miami Herald that
the Epstein story in like November of twenty eighteen, and
so then the Southern District of New York. I think
like they kind of admit that, like her story, her
investigative journalism played a huge role and then reopening the
investigation and pursuing it, and so she was kind of like,

(42:05):
you know, working side by side, you know, maybe parallel
to maybe with like the prosecutors in the Southern District
of New York. And then they arrest him. And then
she writes a book in twenty twenty one called Perversion
of Justice, which is the same name of the journalistic
series that she did to break the story. And I

(42:26):
read this criticism of her book that was it was
like posted in the discord, but it was about how
like her book quotes Virginia Giffrey.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Yeah, people say Guffree, people say Jeffrey, yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Yeah, whatever whatever like gi ufr or whatever, and so
it quotes like her memoirs at length. And in twenty nineteen,
Virginia Giffray's lawyers admitted that those memoirs were like a
fictionalized account of what happened to her. And so Julie

(43:01):
Brown is like, you know, presenting and like she doesn't
provide that context but context, but she's presenting these memoirs
as like a kind of like a.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Like testimony I would, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
But as testimony of you know, this person's encounters with Epstein,
this person's encounters with Alan Dershowitz, this person's encounters uh,
Prince Andrew, like all of these huge names that get
like caught up in this scandal.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
So you're saying this is a falsehoodness.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
The potentially yeah potentially.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Now where is Virginia Certainly we could just ask her
to clarify.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
It, right, and she's dead?

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Oh and how natural causes? I'm sure did she commit suicide?

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Well that's what yeah, I mean, it's claimed to be suicide.
And then you know there's tons of you know, obviously
speculation around that. But so she's the person where like
this mythos of like what we can see eve the
Epstein like web to be she seems to be like
the crucial witness of like that story of like.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
This kind of like.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
And she has like she was sued by Alan Dershowitz,
and Alan Dershowitz won that case, which I mean like
that's one of those people like suing Robert Maxwell or
suing Jeffrey Epstein. And it's like Alan Derschowitz is a
Harvard lawyer who has represented you know, presidents and also
so like you better come with you know facts. But
then Alan dershoew Hits is on record like being interviewed

(44:36):
in the press, and he's like, I received a massage
at Jeffrey Epstein's house. I didn't know of any underage girls.
I received a massage from an of age girl and
I kept my underwear on and so like nobody. So
that's like, the the more you look at the story,
like nobody is a fucking hero, Like nobody looks good. Nobody,

(44:59):
you know.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
There's something weird about the Virginia. I wish we had
audio clips because a lot of this she does in audio.
But there's something weird about the Virginia Guffrey Jeffrey thing
because she's talking about, if I recall correctly, I don't
think this is fake. You know, you never know nowadays.
But she's saying she like, in the weeks and months
leading up to her death, she's saying like, I'm not suicidal,

(45:20):
but there's too many powerful people who want me dead,
blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
But she doesn't she doesn't like put.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Specifics to it. And it's like, yeah, I believe powerful
people want her dead, but maybe not for the reason
we think, you know, maybe God. And again I don't listen,
I don't know. I'm just speculating, but maybe she was
handled in a certain way by certain people to be

(45:49):
sort of a red herring, and then maybe she wanted
to tell her story a little bit, or maybe she
didn't want to tell her story, but that was a
risk that no one could allow, and maybe there were
powerful people who did want her dead. But it's not
it's not because she's going it's because of the fake
story she told on their behalf, you know what I mean,
Like they don't want to unravel this whatever that was,

(46:11):
or or maybe just some more obvious reason though she
But the thing is, why would powerful people want her dead?
Then she already said everything. Yeah, she already said everything
there was to say. So it's like, why would powerful
people want her dad? She's you know what I mean,
Like she's testified. Yeah, and it's almost because they don't
want her to undo whatever it was they.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
Had her do you know?

Speaker 2 (46:34):
And that's kind of the that was.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
A horrible Sorry, that was a horrible explanation, but hopefully
you can make sense of what I just said.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
No, and that's kind of like what I was like
referring to. That's like what I began to kind of
think about with like, Okay, like if you wanted to
plan a witness because you have so like then because
like when you look at the Virginia Defray stuff and
you look at like the weird stuff that Julie Brown
is doing with her book by like quoting the fictitious memoir,
and you look at Vicky Ward, who's like this other

(47:02):
hero and she was doing sketchy stuff, then you begin
to be like, okay, well, like is this story are
they you know, this is a story true? Like is
it right? But then it's like you have to get
like I go back to the like Palm Beach police investigation,
and it's like, now that's real, Like why would they
fabricate evidence against this guy in two thousand and six

(47:25):
that no one really knew about, only to give him
a sweetheart deal only to get him out of prison
and then come back eleven years later and arrest him
and kill him before Yeah, came out from it. So
it's like that can't explain everything. So there's but it's
just there's something weird going on.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yes, something went horribly wrong, something went wrong the last
few years of Epstein's life that we don't understand, Like
something really went off the rails.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah, And that's kind of like where I've gotten to.
It is like exactly like we need to be suspicious
of the mainstream narrative because anytime it like you know,
people's parents you know, are like, yeah, the Jeffrey Epstein's
so like yeah, did you know this and this, and
like they say yeah, repeating facts that like you know,
anytime that starts to happen, it's like okay, well, like

(48:17):
what's going on, what's really going on?

Speaker 1 (48:19):
And you know, people might not be comfortable with that
level of conspiratorial thinking. But you got to think about
what we know to be true, and what we know
to be true is so strange that we have to
you know, we got to entertain these ideas. If you're
if you're willing to buy multiple islands, get members of
the Saint Thomas government in your pocket, buy one of
the biggest ranches in Arizona, the most the biggest building

(48:40):
in Manhattan, the most expensive property in Ohio A seven
twenty seven, that you fly the world's rich and famous
political leaders royalty to an island where there's some bad
stuff going on. You're not going to get a couple
journalists or fake witnesses on your pay, like of course
you are. There's the scope of this, whatever this is

(49:00):
is probably much bigger than we would like to think.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Yeah, no, I agree, And that's what you know. It's
one of those things where it's like it just of
course it's going to be more complicated, like of course
there's gonna be like these twists and turns when you
like follow like you know, fall down the rabbit hole.
But that's what it's like, keep returning to is like

(49:25):
it's still just so like going back to the facts
of like you know what we know, and like the
signing of the power of attorney over like from Les Wesner,
and like, you know, the fact that he's involved with
like the Maxwells. It's just so like, yeah, it just
adds to the mystery of like what the hell was
going on? And so it's like one of those things

(49:47):
where it's like the more answers you get, the more
questions that you know that get.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Yeah, and you know, we'll probably never know. But listen,
I think blackmail was probably involved. But it just blackmail
just doesn't seem like the right tool for this job.
You know, it's it's you use it here and there,
you know, you use it for purpose specific things. But yeah,
it just seems maybe lex Wextro is blackmail.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
I don't know anyway, but I think you're probably moving
onto the net. You're moving to the science arena or
the convict or the final chapters of his life.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
Maybe well that's it. Yeah, I mean he so he
gets arrested in the Southern District of New York. He
gets charged with.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
My understanding is they're allowed to do that because of
the mess up in Florida where they didn't know that.
I shouldn't call it a mess up.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
It's horrible.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
They didn't notify the victims, yes, and so they went
to a judge, right.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Yeah, the non prosecution agreement gets voided. So there was
a lawsuit in the Southern District of New York and
they argue that Oily has a non prosecution agreement, and
they tried to argue that, like there was no formal
indictment processed by the federal government and so that this
notification to the witnesses and victims wasn't the responsibility of

(51:04):
the FBI or something like along those lines. And the judge,
the federal judge is like, that's bullshit. So going to
overturn that prosecution is back on the table. They arrest him. Obviously,
we talked about Bill Barr as the one overseeing the
Justice Department. And then Epstein committed suicide. And everyone knows

(51:25):
that he committed suicide. And that's the I mean, the
only possibility that.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
So William Barr the father.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
So Donald bar is the father Donald Bar.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
So Donald bar potentially the individual that brings Epstein into
intelligence maybe if he is intelligence. Right, Yeah, that was
you know when Epstein was twenty one or something like that.
His and so the dad, the head master of the
Dalton School, writes science fiction about aliens who kidnap little

(51:58):
girls and exchange for technology or something some weird, some
weird stuff about rings of elite people who have child slaves.
Seems like he might be writing about a world he knows. Anyway,
his son is the one that puts Epstein in.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Jail, puts Epstein in jail, and then his son, so
Bill Barr, and you know, we'll remember that Bill Barr
was like this notorious CIA lawyer who was covering up
a fixer. Yeah, he was a fixer during especially like
George H. W. Bush. So obviously George H. W. Bush
was the director of the CIA when I Ran Contra happened,

(52:40):
and then he gets elected president in nineteen eighty eight.
In the wake of the CIA scandals of the eighties,
Bill Barr is brought in as a fixer. And so
that's what it kind of looks like. He's playing that
role here of the fixer of there's a problem and
so he's going to solve it. Obviously, we know that

(53:00):
they release the edited footage and now there's like a
blurry orange figure that can be seen and like the
missing minute of the footage that was released. Did you
see that?

Speaker 1 (53:10):
Yeah, I haven't seen it, but I know the story
around it.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
So it was like they released edited footage that was
missing a minute, and everyone caught onto that, and so
then they found them found the missing minute.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
What a joke?

Speaker 1 (53:23):
What an Absolutely it's insulting.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Yeah, And it's just like the figure that you see,
it's like you can't tell what it is, you know.
It's like they could explain that away if they wanted to.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
And this is a much bigger indictment of like the
current administration than any photo that I've seen of Trump
and Malania. This is what should upset people right here.
It should have set Republicans and Democrats the fact this
kind of dumb stuff about the missing minute. Oh here,
it is over here, as if it's there's like clips

(53:53):
of tape in the CIA archives at the of the
DOJ archives. Oh here, it is on the floor right here.
It's like that, don't insult what does?

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Yeah, and then go and like and it's worth remembering
that this is the most like, this is one of
the most secure prisons in the United States. To me,
was like on suicide Watch and they take him off
of suicide Watch and there's three camera there's you know,
two or three cameras and they all fail at the
same time. There were two guards there. They both fell asleep,

(54:23):
and it's just like this is the biggest Like.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Yeah, to me, it's like it's just so stupidly obvious.
This tell me what you think about? This is what
it sounds like to me. If I had a guess,
just if I'm an alien I come to Earth. I
watched the last twenty years of news, I listened to
our podcast. My conclusion would be, we got this guy Epstein,
clearly well connected, maybe intelligence, it's probably intelligence, but it's

(54:46):
certainly big network, big money guy, powerful friends, every hint
on a pervert, right, every bit of trouble that's come
his way for the last twenty three, thirty forty fifty years,
he's been able to just sidestep, right, Oh, no big deal,
make a call, get the lawyer.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Right.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
I think this New York case, I think it kind
of caught them off guard.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Right.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Maybe it's a little too public, a little bit too
much going on. This was beyond the Epstein making a
phone call to a lawyer getting on work release. It's
a bigger deal. Yeah, And I think Epstein was shocked
by that. What do you mean I got to stay
in prison? You know, like like you know what I know,

(55:34):
like anyone who's been fired from a high power job,
which I have, by the way, you know that feeling.
I know that feeling. What are you talking about. I've
worked here for ten years. I know the inner workings
of this business. You're really going to fire me, you
know what I mean? It's a little subtle threat. There's
a subtle threat there, and I think he crossed that line,
as many intelligent assets probably have. Or he's more trouble

(55:56):
than he's worth.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
I think that's the There's a lot of like behind
the scenes legal action that's happening. So the victims that
were like part of the police investigation in two thousand
and six to two thousand and eight, like all those
people have lawyers and like eventually they kind of form,
you know, like a union of victims or whatever. I

(56:21):
don't know if the legal term for that is. But
like so you have, like you know, someone a high
powered lawyer down in Miami who represents you know, ten
of the victims and is like putting forward lawsuits you know,
in different courts, you know, just seeing where they can
you know, get access, get a hearing, you know, get

(56:41):
the story on the table, and like you know that.
I think that process goes on for like ten years,
you know, eight to twenty eighteen, and they're starting to like,
you know, get journalists involved, get someone like Julie Brown involved,
tell her the story off the record so that she
can investigate it, corroborate it, and get you know, hard facts.

(57:02):
You know, the fact that she gets the chief of police,
the former chief of police from the Palm Beach Police
Department on the record as like, yes, this was the investigation,
this is what we found, and this is what happened
to the FBI investigation. And like I said, there was
that lawsuit in the District of New York where it's like, okay,
well they're going after the you know, non prosecution agreement.

(57:24):
So it's like sometimes those things take ten years. You know.
If anyone's ever been involved in any sort of like
you know, legal you know, even something like an insurance claim,
it's like an insurance claim can be drawn out for
five years.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
Yeah, and if you're if you're running Epstein, like if
you're his handler or whatever the word is, right, you know,
the Florida thing, It's like, okay, we can make one
deal with one guy Acosta and this FBI in format
totally plausible, right, done all the time for horrible crimes murderers.
You know, you turn states witness, you get it's all good,

(58:00):
you know. I think now in New York it's like, huh,
like this is becoming a bigger problem and there's not
just one guy you can tap on the shoulder anymore.
It's like, we got to kill twenty witnesses, we gotta
bribe ten officials, we got to eliminate a federal judge,
you know, like, or we could just kill Epstein. I

(58:22):
think that that's at the end of the day, that
becomes a decision. And don't forget these are these are
professional killers. I mean not the entire Central Intelligence Agency
or FBI, but individuals. Members in these organizations make life
and death decisions every day. This is not like outside
of the realm of possibility for them to say, yeah,
we got to kill this guy.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
Yeah yeah, I mean it's easy, you know, seemingly, it's
easy to walk into the most you know, secure prison
in New York and kill the cameras and you know,
tell the guards to look away for thirty minutes. And
it was like the way and the way that he
was hung was like he wasn't even hung off the
top bunk. I'm pretty sure they said that he hung

(59:04):
himself off of the bottom rung of the bunk and
his neck was broken in like two places where they
were like, it's much more likely that strangulation happened. And
then in the crime scene photo, it's like they show
the crime scene photo of like him on the ground
and he's supposedly violently hung himself in this way, and
like medication bottles or some sort of like bottles are

(59:26):
still on the uh, like the bed, so it's like
they have been undisturbed, you know by.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
The Yeah, he went, he went quietly. I am.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Now there's there's some thoughts I've heard that kind of
contradict what I was just saying. But I have heard
some people saying that fs scene actually thought he was
going to be released, and so the likelihood that he
would kill himself seems unlikely. But I do wonder if
you decide you if Epstein's talking about like with what
I know. You guys expect me to stay in high

(59:57):
security prison for the next however long with what I know.
And then there's a meeting and then they decide to
kill him. And they call him back and they say, hey,
listen your case. I think we got this under control.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
Okay, cool, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Well kill him that night. You know, liked this idea
because I forget what this is based on. But this
I've heard this multiple times where there's communication with I
guess his lawyer, I don't know who that he was.
He was feeling like he was going to walk away
from this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
Yeah, and that's.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Why he would kill himself. It's hard to you know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
I mean, you would at least take it to court,
especially with your experiences in court have been of like, oh,
I got the sweetheart deal.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
The last he's not sentenced yet, right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Oh he has, he's been in diet. He hasn't even
been I think that like maybe they presented some of
the evidence to a grand jury, but like, I don't
think there's been a jury selection. I don't think there's
been a trial date. That's like, you know, they may
have said a trial date, but it wasn't like, you know,
he was he wasn't like.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Dude, no, Yeah, for a survivor like Epstein, you don't.
You don't let that kind of punchry ticket until you
know you have no options.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
You know, and if you know that, like the star
witness against you is going to be Virginia Giffrey and.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
You know, like easy to poke holes in that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
And that's what I mean. It's like, you know, and
like that's what they did, is they immediately started poking
holes in all of these different you know, now they've lost.
You know, the victims have won a bunch of lawsuits,
but like you know, that doesn't mean that, you know,
in a criminal court it's different. You know, civil court
is one thing. Criminal court is different. That's how they
got you know, isn't that what happened to oj whereas
like he was acquitted in criminal court, but then they

(01:01:35):
convicted him of something in you know, civil court. I
don't know if I'm pretty sure that's what happened, but
that happens like frequently in these kinds of cases where
it's like, well, if you can't win in criminal then
you'll go to cibyl and see if you can battle
it out with a lawsuit.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
But that's like, yeah, this the whole thing is clearly
anyone who can listen to this or like any other
deep dive Epstein who thinks he killed himself. To me,
it's like it just defies all logic and reason and
uh listen Epstein, you know, uh, degenerate, pervert, pedophile, a

(01:02:12):
lot of different things, but just like fly off the handle,
like irrational, I'm so sad, I'm gonna kill myself because
I'm in jail. That's it doesn't fit. He's gonna he's
gonna go He's gonna with a smile on his face,
go into court, you know, and and and get off,
you know, because that's all he's done his whole life.

(01:02:33):
He just dealt with it a few years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
Well, and then so my favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
And then he kill himself in Florida.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
You know, it's and then my favorite conspiracy theory. So
it's like kind of the same thing that we were
talking about, is like when something becomes accepted, like a
conspiracy theory becomes accepted by the mainstream that Okay, Epstein
didn't kill himself.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
He's still alive.

Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
Yeah, they put in like a body double that got
him out of there, and then they're.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Just that just it just places way too much importance
on Epstein. Yeah, I just don't think he was this important.
I get that sounds crazy given his lifestyle and stuff,
but he's.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Not He's not like a blue blood.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
He's not like exactly operatives don't like it. He's an operative.
He's not he's not the behind the scenes, in charge
of the world kind of guy, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
Yeah, it's not like he's a he's not like a
member of the royal.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
Family exactly, right, right, So it's.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
Yeah, they're not gonna they don't really they don't care
about him. They don't, yeah, or they're not worried about
whether or not he lives. So I think I think
he was murdered. But I do love that kind of
like like the ultra conspiracy take.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
Have you seen?

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
It's the instagram that says how much of a conspiracy
theorist are you? And it shows a picture of Epstein
and Thomas Jefferson from the Bill, The twenty Dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Bill Next Year.

Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
Oh, it's hilarious.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Well, okay, so he's Epstein's dead, as Bill Gates would say,
well he's dead. That was a famous interview of his
Have you seen that. No, they ask him about Epstein
and he goes, well, he's dead, so yet not really
much to talk about. Like the way he said it,
it just sounded so like he took care of that problem.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Yeah, but I should try to find that clip while
you're talking. But so where what the story over Epstein's done?
Where do we go from here?

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
I mean that's what there's like the like on you know,
we talked a little bit about like his ties into
like the tech world. There's the interesting thing of like, yeah,
the last thing with that is like Bill Barr has
a visit with Epstein's bunk mate in the prison who

(01:04:44):
was skeptical that it was a suicide. And so it's
like again it's like, you know, you just have Bill Barr,
like he personally goes and pays a visit to the
inmate in the like Epstein's bunk, which is just not
a normal thing for an attorney general to do in
a case. But then I mean it just leaves like

(01:05:06):
the you know, some of the science stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
You know, Sorry, did you hear the audio that I
just splayed? Did you hear like a noise?

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
Okay, let me share my screen real quick, just let
me since I mentioned, let me just play this Bill
Gates clip and then let's get to.

Speaker 3 (01:05:41):
Dude.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
And he was asked about Epstein. That's not out of context.
I've listened to the full clip. So I just love
that he gotta be careful. Imagine saying that on National TV. Anyway. Sorry, okay,
so moving on.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
But it's just like it. It's like the really the
last thing that I think would be you know, kind
of interesting for us as just some of the like
you know, getting deeper into the science angle.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Give us a taste, give us at least fifteen minutes,
just hit it hard.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
What do we got?

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Well, it says, so this is an article from the
Guardian and it's quoting the New York Times throughout it.
But I don't have a subscription of the New York Times,
and I kind of refuse to get one, so I
go to where free articles are.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
Somebody needs to teach you how to get around that.
I don't know how either, but apparently there's a way.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Yeah, I'm sure there's a way. And I'm like, if
I had, you know, I've got to like talk to
someone at my old school and see if I can
get you know institutional access to journals and newspapers. But
this is the quote because the Guardian article's name is
Epstein reportedly hoped to develop super race of humans with

(01:06:57):
with his DNA, And so it's as the article starts
with this, as Jeffrey Epstein, the wealthy financier accused of
sex trafficking plan to develop an improved super race of
humans using genetic engineering and artificial intelligence, according to the
New York Times.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
So it goes on to what is this based on?
This is who?

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
This is like an investigation from the New York Times
into like.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
His maybe some of the people who were meeting with
him in New Mexico, like scientists and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Yeah, so I have some more quotes, and then it
says Epstein told scientists and businessman about his ambitions to
use his New Mexico ranch as a base where women
would be inseminated with his sperm and would give birth
to his babies. Mister Epstein's goal was to have twenty
women at a time impregnated at his thirty three thousand
square foot Zoro ranch in a tiny town outside Santa Fe.

(01:07:54):
So Epstein's field of study was labeled transhumanism, but was
an updated version of eugenics. Lawyer Alan Dershowitz, who defended
Epstein in two thousand and eight, has been named in
a civil suit brought by Virginia. Jeffrey told The Times
that he was appalled by the financier's interest in genetic
manipulation given the Nazis use of eugenics in the nineteen thirties.

(01:08:16):
So according to the New York Times paper, Epstein's circle
included the molecular engineer George Church, Murray gell Mann, who
proposed the quark, the evolutionary biologist Stephen J. Gould, and
the neurologist and author Oliver Sachs, and the theoretical physicist
Frank wilchek Man.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
These are big names. I guess I shouldn't beat my feelings,
shouldn't be too hurt that I was never invited, but
because these are these are the big boys.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
Yeah, And that's what I'll have a list of. I
have a list two of people who are involved post
conviction with Epstein, two that I'll try and find. But
then it goes on to say the on one occasion,
Epstein had a lunch at Harvard's Program for Evolutionary Dynamics
so Harvard's Evolutionary Dynamics Program, a program he had helped

(01:09:03):
fund with a six and a half million dollar donation.
In twenty eleven, he gave twenty thousand to the Worldwide
Transhumanist Association, a project that now operates as Humanity Plus.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
I got oh, Jesus. I gotta be honest. Sometimes Epstein
doesn't really feel like he is being handled, like sometimes
he does just sort of seem like a free agent.
I mean, of course, we could never know. He could
have been directed to make these donations and stuff, or
maybe you know, I think a lot of these guys
like they're like Maxwell, certainly Robert Maxwell. It sounds like

(01:09:37):
he was sort of affiliated with lots of intelligence agencies,
but he's he's not an agent, you know what I mean.
He's not a CIA agent or a KGB agent or
a MASAD agent necessarily, although he might have been. He
just has connections network and he's found a way to
get rich, you know. And it sounds like maybe Epstein's
sort of done the same thing. Like do you think

(01:09:57):
he's like like he's got check in once a month
with his handler, or does he just kind of more
feel like he's doing because this stuff feels like it's
a personal interest. Well, I don't think the CIA wants
him to impregnate twenty women at a time, you know,
or maybe I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
Well, it gets into like so I listened to a
little bit of those clips with Eric Weinstein, and it
was like, basically the accusation that Eric Weinstein, who is
you know, suspicious in his own right, but Eric Weinstein
was making is that it was Epstein was a part
of this kind of intelligence academic structure that wanted to

(01:10:39):
gate keep science and put boundaries around it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
What does that mean?

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
It basically means that there is like an invisible college
that works on secret physics that is trying to figure
out like zero point energy and has been working you
know with stuff like you know, nuclear fusion, or you know,
has been in the aerospace industry working with advanced craft
that appear like their UFOs or whatever, and that that's

(01:11:09):
part of the invisible college and that stuff is okay
for the military industrial complex to investigate. And then there
is the mainstream academia that is not allowed to really
enter into like those fields of research.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
I think that kind of checks out, sort of makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
And that's what like so maybe in like EPs there's
a lot of like speculation coming out recently that like,
you know, Epstein was super interested in gravity blah blah
blah blah, you had like a gravity conference. But then
also like.

Speaker 3 (01:11:41):
Maybe but this, but I guess this is hism.

Speaker 2 (01:11:44):
Part like this genetic cloning of humans, like this weird
thing that's going on that we kind of know is
going on behind the scenes, like this integration of AI
with biology and stuff like that. You know, I think
that everyone kind of can tell that, like, Okay, they've
been working on this stuff for a while a while
and what we see today may not represent, you know,

(01:12:07):
what's their actual capabilities are behind the scene. But maybe
but part of that invisible.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
College maybe maybe. But to me this feels more like
like if it's an invisible college, like bring a guy,
are there scientists that everyone knows their name working in
the invisible college?

Speaker 3 (01:12:30):
Like it?

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
It feels like Gould getting invited to a ranch like
that doesn't that doesn't feel like intelligence like breakaway society,
secret college kind of a thing. That feels like some
rich guy wants to impregnate twenty women and he's got
a lot of money and he brings them to his ranch,
you know what I mean, Like it doesn't it doesn't
feel institutional. Like I believe that there are these like

(01:12:54):
crazy behind the scenes things that we don't know, but
I think I don't think we're bringing like handfuls of
mainstream academics to a ranch to have a scotch and
talk about getting checks bregnant. Like it just doesn't feel
like an intelligence operation. But I don't know who knows
who knows Obviously I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
So well and I don't know. Yeah, Like I don't
know either. It's just and it's like one of those
things where you know, it does kind of seem like, okay, well,
maybe like you're searching for the most brilliant minds that
exist and you're trying to like bring them into a
room and like bounce some ideas off of them. That
seems like what Epstein was doing a lot of was

(01:13:36):
just like oh, this guy's gout like he's like maybe
the world's foremost researcher, you know, in evolutionary biology, and
I have, you know, some ideas that I want to
bounce off of them, and I'm willing, you know, I'm
willing to fund whatever research he wants to do for
one hundred thousand dollars, and that guy wants a hundred

(01:13:56):
thousand dollars for his research, as like, shit, I'll go
have an hour conversation with this weirdo who doesn't really
understand what he's talking about, but you know, I'll be
nice to him and entertain him. So it does feel
like there's a lot of that that's happening. But then
that also does feel like there's this element of like, Okay, well,
maybe we're trying to bring like these mainstream scientists into

(01:14:20):
the fold in order to like produce the like in
order to get them on the same page of the narrative,
you know, scientific narratives that we want out when it's
out kind of behind the scenes, this is what we're
actually working towards. This is what you know, we want
to do, because that's what you know, the CIA is
known to have been doing that, you know, through the

(01:14:40):
like the Human Ecology Fund. You know, they pumped i
mean millions and millions of dollars into academia, you know,
especially in like the seventies and really like transformed some
of these fields you know that we have today and
like really kind of like influenced them into a certain direction. Yeah,

(01:15:00):
it's tough to tell. I don't know if Epstein is
a part of that or not. But I just find
it incredibly weird that he's working with all of these scientists.
It's super strange.

Speaker 3 (01:15:08):
It's very bizarre. I would do.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
I just wish I could be a fly on the wall.
I want to know what the hell is going on.
And what's crazy is that this Epstein guy, he's one
iteration of this phenomenon that I feel like it's probably
ever present at the higher levels of society, and that
he totally fit in. He totally fit into this world,

(01:15:31):
you know. And that's because that world, whatever world he
was a part of, it is just a dark world.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
It's it's you can spiral, you know, you can be like,
oh the evil of it, you can really sort of
start to spiral. It's it's it's unsettling. But maybe, you know,
maybe it's naive to be surprised. You know, this is
there's always been this like the what's the word the rulers,
the ruling class, The ruling class has always been up

(01:15:57):
to weird stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
Yeah, well, and that was like, what the point that
this guy, like who the guy who runs the Martyr
Made podcast was about it is like okay, so yeah,
like we have all this kind of circumstantial evidence that
like he was pimping these girls out to like wealthy clients,
but like we're probably not going to ever be able
to prove that in court. We're probably never going to

(01:16:19):
get justice for the victims. Like that's probably never gonna happen.
But then, like what kind of climate exists where Jeffstein
can just move fluidly through all of it without anyone
batting an eye and he gets into like you know
this stuff where it's like, you know, he's not necessarily
like a proponent of QAnon, but he's like, you know,

(01:16:41):
I can understand where some of these people in QAnon
are coming from, like the ones who get kind of
like wrapped up in it because like you look at
the Podestas and like one of the Podesta's has like
art of like underage girls like drowning on his wall.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
Oh you're you're soft selling it. I just listened to
the geralds Cooper interview with Tucker.

Speaker 3 (01:17:01):
Dude.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
It's disturbing. It's disturbing, and it's not like this is
some obscure guy. I mean, this is a leading Democratic lobbyist,
if I'm understanding it correctly, right, Tony the one.

Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
So there's John Podesta, who's like the Clinton, who.

Speaker 3 (01:17:16):
Is Clinton's manager, and his brothers.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
Yeah, his brother was like the art. But it's like,
you know, they're all you know, and I get.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
They don't even put it away though. That's what's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
We're like, oh, it's you know, just because it's someone's
sibling doesn't mean fuck off.

Speaker 1 (01:17:31):
They're all no, no, no, no, no, you don't. You don't fill
your art with like demons pissing on children.

Speaker 3 (01:17:38):
You don't.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
You don't have that kind of stuff in your house
and leave it up and have dinner parties. Yeah, And
everyone's just like, yeah, this is what we're into, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
And that gets into like the weird side of the art. Yes, God,
it gets really and that it's a whole nother tangent.
But like, do you have have you ever heard of
like the story of the Black Doll you murderers?

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
Yeah, I've heard the words, but I don't exactly know
the details. This sounds disturbing. Do we want to start
it right now?

Speaker 3 (01:18:06):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
But it's just like just briefly since I mentioned It's
just like this famous murder in la that went unsolved,
and it was like the woman had been like drained
of her blood and her body had been posed. But
basically these people went into it and it was like
the guy that they think like performed the murder was
like this failed surrealist artist. Yeah, and this was like

(01:18:28):
his surrealist art piece. So it's just like there's this
element in the art community that like glamorizes, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:18:36):
And well, I was just gonna say, a lot of
the artists, I mean, they're known people, and some of
them are convicted pedophiles. It's yeah, it's a culture of
pedophilic art. And Tony Pedesta is the chief customer.

Speaker 3 (01:18:48):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:18:49):
And it's like he's he's deeply involved in politics, his
brother's deeply involved in politics, and their whole social circle
is deeply involved in this stuff. And that should raise
a lot of red flags that should this should be
like the hill we Die on politically that I just
went off on this tangent by other show. It's easy,

(01:19:14):
it's easy to just get furious about this, but like
just I'm just trying to take the emotions out of it.
There it appears that in the political class there is
a culture of like violence towards children, and I think
what it is it's not necessarily children, although maybe that

(01:19:34):
because I could listen if Epstein, you if you have
sex with some sixteen year olds, like, yeah, kill them,
lock them up forever, hang them, chop his head off, whatever,
boy them on fire. I'm fine with that. But they're like,
I do think that is like that's a male drive
that is wrong and should be punished. But it's distinct

(01:19:54):
psychologically from someone who wants to hurt like eight year olds. Yes,
you know, it's like it's a different phenomenon. And I
think it comes from really viewing like the peasant class
is like cattle.

Speaker 3 (01:20:09):
Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
It comes from boredom of being in charge. Like it
just comes from just a life of superiority and luxury
and immunity from real human experience, and like it's it's
fundamentally different. It's like aristocratic and it's like a ruling
class issue that maybe's gone on for a long time.

(01:20:32):
I hope has it always been this bad? I don't know,
I don't know, but it is disturbing to say the least,
and the fact that we're just going to move on
from it is upsetting.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
Yeah, I mean I think it has been going on.
I mean you look at ancient Greece, you know, like
that's you know, ancient Rome, same way the Catholic Church
then takes over from the Roman Empire. I mean they're notorious. Yeah,
and then it's like, you know, all the way through
and there's.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
You know, I don't forget the only institution that harms
more children than the Catholic Church, do you know? No,
I don't public school system. Yeah, that's the only place
where I think, like per capita, there's more convicted pedophiles
in the Catholic churches the public.

Speaker 3 (01:21:16):
School system, Which, dude, what is going on? Man?

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
Like you, as a normal person, you just can't believe
that this is a problem. Yeah, It's like it's you
can't even contemplate that this is a real issue, but dude,
it seems to be a real issue.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
Yeah. And then like you know, the other thing, like
exactly what you're talking about with like the aristocratic element
of it. And I was like, you know, kind of
like in this period of like well, it's like Jeffrey's
stories falling apart, Vicky Ward looks like a piece of shit,
like Julie Brown's doing weird stuff, like is it real?
And then it's like, you know, go back to like
Jimmy Saville. Yeah, and it's Jimmy Saville and like what

(01:21:53):
he was doing, and he was connected into like the
royal family over there, and it's like it's the same
you know, characters swirling around Jimmy in the seventies and
the eighties and whenever. You know, he was active with it,
and so it's just like, you know, you have to
go back and just be like, you know, look at it.
And it's like something that we don't talk about very
often because nobody wants to talk about you know, it's
not conversation that you haven't Thanksgiving dinner. You know, maybe

(01:22:16):
it's probably been happening more recently, but it's not you don't, like,
people don't want to think about this kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
Well, it gets turned into a political discussion now, like
at the Thanksgiving table, this issue has become a political topic,
like did Trump know did he not? Did Biden to
Biden covered It's like, guys, you're just you are missing
the point man.

Speaker 3 (01:22:36):
Yeah, you're missing the point.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
And that's what you know. I was like in a
conversation with someone and they're like, well, they're not really
shoving microphones in Bill Clinton's face, and it's like, well
they should be sure. I'm not in a position so
you know, like obviously Donald Trump's the president of the
United States, and it's like, so he's you know, in
a place where yeah, more microphons are going to be
shoved in his face. But it's like, you know, we
should be finding Bill Clinton whenever he's being into that

(01:23:00):
and like shove micro friends and you know, all these people.
It's like I don't care, you know, like.

Speaker 1 (01:23:06):
Oh, I have no political allegiance when it comes to
protecting pedophiles, you know what I mean, like just get them,
like I do not care.

Speaker 3 (01:23:13):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:23:13):
Kind of reminds me of the Gaza conflict right now.
It's like if you point out something that one side does,
it's like immediate, like like, well they did this on
this date. It's like okay, okay, you gotta just settle down, dude.

Speaker 3 (01:23:26):
Is it wrong?

Speaker 1 (01:23:27):
You know, is is a pyramid scheme of underage girls
being abused?

Speaker 3 (01:23:32):
Is that wrong? Guess?

Speaker 2 (01:23:33):
Or no?

Speaker 3 (01:23:33):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:23:34):
So whether they're a Democrat, whether they're Republican, Like, you
got to stop, like, why isn't this being.

Speaker 3 (01:23:40):
Investigated right now?

Speaker 2 (01:23:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:23:43):
And I do, I do.

Speaker 1 (01:23:45):
I do feel like this is going to be a
tough This is you know, it seemed like the Republican
Party was probably good to go for the next few elections.
But this is going to be the breaker right here. Man.
They got to do something about this. And I already
field the gears turning to, like, in a politically savvy way,

(01:24:07):
wrap this up.

Speaker 2 (01:24:09):
Yeah. I don't think either side wants it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:12):
No, No, that's what I'm saying. It's a political this
is they're all doing it, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
Yeah, well it's like that's what I mean is I
don't but just as terms of like investigating and it's
like the Democrats are coming out with a bunch of
noises that they don't want to investigate it. A Democratic
president gets elected next, it's not going to be any different.
It's going to be there on version of bullshit. And
so it's this.

Speaker 1 (01:24:34):
Is what I this is what I said on my
last episode on Happy fool As. I said, this is
late empire stuff. Yeah, this is end of empire kind
of stuff right here. This is like it just seems like, yeah,
you know, this is not this. I think they can
keep the team sports stuff going for a while longer,
but it's this is not good for society man. Anyway,

(01:24:57):
on that dark and disturbing note, do you have any thoughts?

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
I don't think so. I think I think I'm done.
I think I'm tired of.

Speaker 3 (01:25:06):
The let's be done with epsin. Can we be done?

Speaker 2 (01:25:08):
Yeah, we're done.

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
Unfortunately, this is the mood that's gonna work in their favor.
But I'm I got it. I can't. I can't do
it anymore. I'm shouting into the void. I'm pissing in
the wind.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
Well that's it. Yeah, I mean we'll see, you know,
we'll see what happens. And you know, like I said,
I you know, keeping an eye on it. But it's
like as far as the the deep dives go, it's
like it's just yeah, we'll be done now.

Speaker 1 (01:25:34):
I'm already calling that Gelaine will be pardoned Glayne.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
And I think try. I mean, like, if anything could
impeach Trump, this would be enough for not necessarily like
maybe not impeached, but if anything could make him a
sitting duck you know, presient.

Speaker 1 (01:25:54):
Yeah, I don't think so. I think it's in everybody's
interest to just move on from this story. I mean
I think they'll make noise, know like, oh Trump is
that but is I think everybody just wants to move
on in charge every you know, Democrat, Republican.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
Yeah, but that's what I just feel like it's the
one thing that would erode support in his base, and
it's the one thing that would make like things split,
and it would you know. So it's like, is there
someone from the you know, is it basically preparing the
way for the next like post Trump Republican Party is
kind of Also what I've been thinking is like, you know,

(01:26:30):
is someone like a JD Vance or someone like that
going to kind of like be able to maneuver this politically,
you know, to be like, Okay, there is a you know,
there is a post Trump, you know kind of vision
of the Republican Party because right now it's like, I
mean they've had like the Maga movement and you know,
you said that like the Republican Party would be good

(01:26:51):
to go. But then again, it's like I don't know
if anyone is as no one is the same as
Donald Trump. So it's like what he would this person
who inherits the Republican Party, like, is this movement sustainable
through Donald Trump? So some of it is like okay, well,
like this seems to be a critical piece of how
the Republican Party like moves forward.

Speaker 3 (01:27:10):
Yeah, it'll be interesting see how.

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
Handle There's a lot of back room more planning right now,
that's for sure about how to handle this. And it's
I think they're on track to handle it pretty well
for seventy percent of the population or eighty you know,
it's going to be. It'll be buttoned up pretty nice,
I think in the next few months. But we'll see.
Who knows. Yeah, maybe somebody should probably be sacrificed. I

(01:27:36):
think I think to make the Gelaine pardon sit right,
they got to sacrifice a few creeps. But you know,
so we'll see. Anyway, that I think concludes Epstein. Listen,
there's more we could talk with. There's tangents off of
this story we'll continue to talk about, you know, but
I think for the most part, I think we're done.

(01:27:58):
You've got some ideas for what we're going to cover next.
You want to tease that at all the individuals like
you don't have to get into it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
But yeah, I think, uh, I want to get into
Andrea Haich. I think is how you pronounce his name?

Speaker 3 (01:28:10):
What's he into?

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
He's into some weird stuff. He was involved with something
called Project Artichoke, which was the military intelligence. It was
like their version of MK Ultra.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
So that might need to be the A and our
Conspiracy ABC coloring book we're working on.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
Artist arti tek is a great one and it's not
as well known, so we can we can expose expose
the public at large to Project Artichoke. But a lot
of people think Artichoke evolved in the MK Ultra, but
it was actually like two different agencies running parallel programs.

Speaker 1 (01:28:51):
All right, well that sounds exciting. That sounds up my alley.
I can't wait to hear about that. I mentioned the
coloring book. We'll have to explain more about that too.
Remember Bad Press is the podcast that I don't I
don't hesitate to call it the official yet the official
podcast of Hemispheric Press, which is our boutique publisher. You
want to write a book, email editor at hemispheric Press

(01:29:13):
dot com. That's David And anyway, we had someone ask
us to help them with the coloring book. But we're
trying to develop our coloring book publishing skills. It's not
as straightforward as you might think and needs to lay flat.
The margins are different anyway, So we've been working on
a conspiracy coloring book. Some more on that soon, David,

(01:29:33):
Thanks man. I can't wait to learn about Project Artistroke.

Speaker 2 (01:29:36):
Yeah, it'll he finally gets it. You'll you'll like the stuff,
the other stuff he gets involved in into, he gets
into the like channeling, the col ay stuff, remo viewing,
all that kind of good stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:29:48):
So everybody's trying to channel demons. It seems like, well, yeah,
thanks man. Please check out our substack Hemispheric Press dot
substack dot com. Until next time, see you, David

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
Sea, And remember everyone, there is no such thing as
bad press.

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